my boy is worse on vetoryl! Please help!

[basil's mum]

Hi my name is Ali, and I'm mum to basil, a 13.5yr old staffie cross border terrier. Bas was diagnosed with cushings 3 weeks ago, although i believe he has had it for at least 2yrs prior to diagnosis. He was diagnosed with Pancreatitis 2yrs ago after having specific lipase tests. My vets just put him onto metacam to help with the inflammation and i was advised to put him onto a low fat diet. 2yrs on, i requested that they test bas for cushings, I'd researched his symptoms on the net. He's lost a substantial amount of weight since being diagnosed with the Pancreatitis and now only weighs 15kgs. He is on 60mg vetoryl a day but I'm concerned this is too high. He's always been a dog who loves his food, his appetite did obviously go up with the cushings but now he's barely eating. He's still weeing in the house but his thirst has decreased slightly. My main concern is that he seems quite depressed and confused since starting the vetoryl. He's due back to the vets this week to have his levels checked but i just can't bear seeing him like this. Is it the vetoryl or was the cushings diagnosed too late and things have gone to far? I really don't want him to suffer anymore and am preparing myself for the worst. Any advice before i have to make this devastating decision would be gratefully appreciated. I'm afraid i don't have a copy of his bloods at home to able to post his levels. Thank you in anticipation.
Ali x

[mytil]

Hi Ali,

Welcome to our site.

I have not used Vetoryl so do not have much experience, but I will say that the dose you are giving does fall within one recommended range for his weight on one hand. BUT there is another opinion on starting at lower doses - take a look at this link http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185.

At times, as the cortisol levels are lowered, mopey behavior occurs. I certainly would let my know of this.

Terry

[basil's mum]

Thanks Terry. The information and support on this forum is fab. I read the leaflet in the tablet box and your absolutely right, he's bang in the middle of the weight range for 60mg dose. I'm distraught at what this disease/drug is doing to bas and can't see any light at the end of the tunnel at the mo. I will ring my vet in the morning and let him know whats going on. Thank you again for your prompt reply and welcome. Ali x

[mytil]

Sounds good and maybe discuss splitting the dose or changing to a bit lower dose. But the very best guide is the ACTH test which will show exactly where the cortisol levels are.

It is important to keep in mind that should any symptoms get worse (vomiting, becoming very lethargic, unable to stand, diarrhea), as outlined in the brochure as well, stop the Vetoryl - and contact your vet right away.

Is Basil taking any other medication?

It may take a bit to get there, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Keep us posted
Terry

[basil's mum]

Thanks Terry. I'm so worried that i might not give him pills tomorrow until I've spoken to the vet. I live in fear of an adisonion crisis! No, bas is not on any other meds. He takes a vitamin b supplement everyday to help with his Pancreas probs, but thats it. He was on atopica for years for a chronic skin allergy but came off 2yrs ago when the Pancreatitis was diagnosed as the vet initially thought it could be a Pancreatic tumor and atopica can speed up the growth of tumors. Could the skin problems have been the first signs of cushings i ask myself? Feel so guilty that i didn't pick up on the symptoms ages ago, i just put a lot of them down to old age :(

[frijole]

Ali, Don't give any more trilo/vetoryl. You are right - it could be that your dog has had too much and cortisol is too low. Repeat - no more til you go to the vet and have an acth test done.

I know Terri checked the dosage amounts but there are two schools of thoughts on dosing and most are now going with lower dosing when starting out. I didn't use it either but hope that someone that has can help you.

Kim

[addy]

Hi Ali,

First rule, when in doubt, dont give the pill. Has your pup had an acth test since starting the vetoryl? How long has he been taking it?
You mention he was diagnosed 3 weeks ago.

The cortisol can drop like a ton of bricks in the beginning and the pup has to get used to feeling differently but you should call your vet asap to discuss. Dont feel funny about it and if the behavior is that worrisome, dont give the pill.

It may take some tinkering to get things figured out. Hang in there.
I use Vetoryl, started my Zoe on it June of 2011.

hugs,
addy

[labblab]

Hi from me, too, Ali.

Normally I would agree with Kim and Addy about stopping the Vetoryl, but it sounds as though your vet is wanting Basil to come in this week for his first monitoring ACTH test. If it can possibly be scheduled for the next day or two, with your vet's approval, you may want to continue the Vetoryl dosing until that test is performed. Otherwise, you really won't have an accurate idea as to how this particular dose is affecting his cortisol level and you'd be back to starting over again in terms of figuring out the optimal dose of Vetoryl for Basil to be taking. Theoretically, Vetoryl only remains active in the body for approx. 12 hours. So if you stop the Vetoryl and test a couple of days later, the test results will not be able to tell you what Basil's cortisol level was while on the medication.

When their cortisol level is suddenly lowered, some dogs do feel "off" and "blah." But this does not necessarily mean that the cortisol level has actually gone down too far. The proof of the pudding will be in the result of that ACTH test. Of course, Basil's safety is paramount. And once you describe how he is doing, your vet may tell you to stop the Vetoryl immediately. But if your primary concern is that Basil is acting depressed (as opposed to physical issues like vomiting or diarrhea), I'm thinking it may also be possible that your vet may advise you to go ahead and dose tomorrow as usual, and then bring Basil in for his ACTH test. Just so you'll know, his medication should be given with food, and the ACTH test should be performed 4-6 hours after dosing.

Marianne

[busyman370]

Hi my name is Ali, and I'm mum to basil, a 13.5yr old staffie cross border terrier. Bas was diagnosed with cushings 3 weeks ago, although i believe he has had it for at least 2yrs prior to diagnosis. He was diagnosed with Pancreatitis 2yrs ago after having specific lipase tests. My vets just put him onto metacam to help with the inflammation and i was advised to put him onto a low fat diet. 2yrs on, i requested that they test bas for cushings, I'd researched his symptoms on the net. He's lost a substantial amount of weight since being diagnosed with the Pancreatitis and now only weighs 15kgs. He is on 60mg vetoryl a day but I'm concerned this is too high. He's always been a dog who loves his food, his appetite did obviously go up with the cushings but now he's barely eating. He's still weeing in the house but his thirst has decreased slightly. My main concern is that he seems quite depressed and confused since starting the vetoryl. He's due back to the vets this week to have his levels checked but i just can't bear seeing him like this. Is it the vetoryl or was the cushings diagnosed too late and things have gone to far? I really don't want him to suffer anymore and am preparing myself for the worst. Any advice before i have to make this devastating decision would be gratefully appreciated. I'm afraid i don't have a copy of his bloods at home to able to post his levels. Thank you in anticipation.
Ali x

I can give you some of my experience that may help you from worrying too much.

My Boxer weighs 22 kg and was started at 50 mg. During most of the first week I was worried that something was wrong because she was really flattened by the Vetoryl, only to find out by the end of the week that she was most likely going through cortisol withdrawal.

She improved all around after that first week.

60 mg. for a 15 kg dog does seem a little bit high, but not terribly high, although I am not near as expert as many here on the forum are.

I agree that since you're so near the next ACTH test to hang in there, with your Vet's permission of course, and stay with the Vetoryl and make that test count.

By staying on the Vetoryl, those test results will be very telling and helpful regarding her dose.

It may need to to up, down or stay the same, but you'll know exactly where Basil's levels are, and as I said, that would very important knowledge for you and your Vet going forward.

And don't forget the two week follow up ACTH to make sure her dose is within a good range.
Fred

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and a belated welcome from me!

My boy, Harley, was diagnosed with pancreatitis, It was found on an ultrasound and confirmed with the Spec cPL test. Pancreatitis can be difficult to get under control and can lead to other health issues such as diabetes and kidney issues.

The excessive drinking/urinating could be due to diabetes and/or a kidney problem, so if it were me, I would have these two issues ruled out.

Sending hugs,
Lori

[mytil]

How is Basil doing?

Terry