So many dogs with Cushings

[Sugar]

Since this year has begun, not 4 months ago, there have been nearly 20 dogs die from Cushings Disease. It seems like a high number especially when you factor in the small amount of us who have been lucky enough to stumble upon this fantastic forum.

I wonder if there is a common thread and what is causing so many dogs to die from Cushings? I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has an any ideas. Below is a brief story of Sugar's battle. Thanks Jean, Sugar's Mom. :confused:

My Sugar, a white female Pekingese was a rescue dog and came to me at about the age of 1 and a half and so I know very about little about her first year of life. I do have her medical records of the shots she received after she was fostered.

I suspect she likely came from a puppy mill and then went to a very bad home. She seemed to have been tied out in all kinds of weather and likely not fed properly or given water. She was picked up on the street and taken to a shelter before arriving at her foster home.

She would nip at strangers especially little boys and at times she would run around the house almost out of control until I would catch her and hold her until she calmed down. As she became more secure these traits almost disappeared.

Sugar also had a problem where her jaw would lock shut and she would make snorting sounds. I would have to force my fingers into her mouth to open it and at the same time try to round out her chest. I always suspected this to have something to do with a collapsing trachea.

Sugar was on vertoryl for almost a year and a half but there was no improvement in her condition. Although she never lost her coat, she did shed. The hump on her shoulders disappeared but she couldn't use her tongue to pick up her food and she couldn't walk very well because of the loss of strength in her back legs.

Sugar died in my arms, gasping for breath.

[labblab]

Jean, you are so right that this has been a very sad time for us with many losses. That is one of the prices we pay for being a tight-knit family here -- we share all of our losses as well as all of our victories :o. But what is important for all our members to know is that many of our losses are not from Cushing's, per se. Many of our babies simply pass from old age, or from other health conditions alongside their Cushing's. Many dogs are not diagnosed with Cushing's until they are already "seniors." So even though their Cushing's may end up being well-controlled, their lifespan still comes to a natural and inevitable end, regardless. And since many folks stay with us for a long time, we are all still here together when that final passage is made to Rainbow Bridge. This is a heartbreak but also a gift, because it permits us to join in honoring all these precious lives.

I am so sorry your Sugar had a difficult time. The treatment journey is a little bit different for every single dog. Thankfully, many dogs do respond very favorably. And oftentimes, the dogs who have the simplest journeys are the ones that we hear the least about -- for that very reason. They are stabilized on the medication, and then they leave us and move on to live out their lives. In that sense, you may be more likely to read about problems here than simple successes. But during my years with this forum, I know there are SO MANY successes. And for that, I am so grateful. My own Cushpup did not have such an easy course. And so my heart goes out, especially, to you. But I know that both you and I did our very best for our beloved companions. And in the end, that is what matters the most.

Sending you many hugs, always in loving memory of your Sugar.
Marianne

[Sugar]

Hi Marianne
I wish that I had found this forum sooner while Sugar was still with me, you all are such kind and caring people. You are right some of our babies do pass because it was their time or from another health issue other than Cushings.
What I would like to know is why there are so many dogs afflicted with Cushings Disease in the first place?? I thought there might be some sort of common thread, such as injections, food, puppy mill breeding, something that would enable us to get to the bottom of why so many are getting this disease.
Thanks for the support, I posted Sugar's album. Jean

[labblab]

Awwww, Jean, I just looked at your album and your photos are so sweet!!

That is such a good question, as to what causes the pituitary/adrenal tumors that result in Cushing's. I cannot say that I have been able to figure out a common thread, myself. I have been active on the forum for about ten years, and in that time I have had the pleasure of meeting purebreds, mixed breeds, showdogs, and rescues. Large dogs and small dogs. A mixture of foods -- some fed raw, some fed kibble, some fed canned, some homecooked. Lots of different variables, and not many common denominators.

I don't honestly know whether there are more Cushing's dogs being diagnosed now than in the past. But if so, I have a couple of thoughts. First, since it is true that Cushing's more often manifests later in life, the fact that dogs are living longer (thanks to many other veterinary advances) means that they have time to develop the disease in the first place. Also, I think that as veterinary diagnostics improve, certain diseases are being recognized with greater frequencey. Cushing's has always been a tough disease to accurately diagnose. But with the greater ease of veterinary laboratory testing and the development of better imaging tools (ultrasound, CT, MRI), it makes the diagnostic process somewhat faster and clearer.

Just some idle thoughts from me. Like you, I sure wish I knew what causes those tumors to develop in the first place!

Marianne

[lauraperla]

Hello Jean and welcome,
I am so sorry for your loss, what a gorgeous dog Sugar was, you must miss her.
Like Marianne, I have oft wondered if there was a causal link and indeed wondered if there was a genetic link. I was asking my IMS this and there seems to be no answer as of yet.
My great aunt had a poodle in the late 60s, early 70s. He was a beautiful boy but in later years he deteriorated significantly. In that era he was just seen to be getting old. Living through what I have with our cushdog I would now say without reservation that Tim was a cushdog. Back then most ordinary people went to the vets because of trauma or for euthanasia. So I think that nowadays many people seek help for their pets, schedule routine checks and these also result in pets living longer.
Prior to Saoirse being ill I only knew of Cushings as a horse disease (in fact I first suspected Cushings when her coat change mimicked what would happen in a horse).
It certainly is a confounding disease.
I hope your treasured memories of Sugar bring you comfort in your time of sadness.

Laura & Saoirse x

[Sugar]

Thanks for looking at Sugar's album. She was a sweet girl and she filled my life with joy.
Until Sugar was diagnosed a year and a half ago with Cushing's, I had not heard of it before. Then I went on the internet and read as much as I could about the disease and found that stress was one thing that was mentioned quite often.
My mother use to be against the rabies vacination. I can't remember why but I know that she never had any of her dogs vacinated and none ever died from rabies or Cushings for that matter and all lived good long lives.
Initially, Sugar was misdiagnosed with heart disease and given two different medications that both caused her severe vomitting and diarrhea. She lost about a pound and never really recovered from that time on. I switched vets who tested her for Cushings. I will always wonder if the heart medications might have pushed her Cushings over the edge where the vetoryl wasn't able to do it's job.
Jean

[busyman370]

I am chiming in with one of my observations.

Over my life, and especially since I became a Boxer breeder, I have had many dogs. There was something that I began to see as more common than not, and here I am speaking more about Boxers than other breeds.

Once a senior dog experienced some traumatic event, which can be emotional, a dental cleaning, or anesthetized for a simple skin tag removal, and especially a serious surgery, there then is a tendency for some illness to rise up and be the one that ends up taking their life.

My last experience was with my two nine year old females. following their dental cleanings, six months later one began to die of stomach cancer and six months after that, the other began to die of degenerative myelopathy.

Fast forward to Trixie. At seven years, she had a surgery to remove a large-ish tumor from her foreleg, then a year later, a vascular tumor was re-removed, this time a lengthy surgery.

The next thing I know, she was starting to show symptoms of Cushing's. And for those of you who have been following Trixie's treatment, you know where we are today.

My assumption is that the various illnesses that ended the dogs life would have taken them eventually, but I have become very weary of doing surgery on senior dogs, and especially so since this thing with Trixie.

So much so that my other girl Trudie had a good sized skin tag on her cheek, and I said to heck with this, I am going to take it off the old school way and tied it off with some strong thread, and after four days, it fell off. I was NOT going to put her under for that.

Trixie's tumor removal was a judgement call. It started looking pretty ugly and I was concerned it become cancerous, so we operated and got it out of her. And as I said above, along came Cushing's soon after, and I mean as soon as she came out of anesthesia! When I took her back for a couple of sutures to be replaced, the skin infection was already started, only it was just at that brownish black dots stage. Sure, the Cushing's may have already begun to take hold, but she was running around the yard like a rocket ship before the surgery, and immediately following, she walked around like she was half dead and never seemed to fully come out of the anesthesia. She is more her old self today, and does not have that look of not coming out of anesthesia, thanks to the Trilostane, than she was for the longest time after that surgery and up to the point we started the Trilo.

If there's a good thing about Cushing's, it is at least treatable.

Another example I just though of is the Calcinosis Cutis. In severe cases, surgery is the only way to get rid of it, but it has been proven that the trauma of the surgery can cause it to return. You'll have to trust me on that one as I do not have anything to submit to verify it, but I did read it. However, it was regarding humans, but that's good enough evidence for me.

And in conclusion, other Boxer people have related the same experience, but since they only had the one dog, they did not think to make a study of the connection of trauma and "pick the illness," but I couldn't help but do just that, based on what I have seen over the years.

To me, I like to stop anything traumatic by age seven, and will only allow it if the odds suggest it's the dogs best advantage.

And that includes any dental procedures.

So, this is just my personal thought and something that can be added to the mix.

Fred.

[Sugar]

Thank you Fred for chiming in and I think you are wise making the decision not to have any serious surgery done on your dogs after the age of 7 and you may have just hit on the common link to Cushings.
My mother was a Peke breeder for almost 30 yrs, and she felt the same way and that was to try to keep dogs from having too much surgery and vacinations.
Sugar unfortuately was not a chewer of rawhides or chew bones of any kind and I am sorry to admit that in the 10 yrs she lived with me she had her teeth cleaned 3 times. The physical stress to the body alone not to mention the anesthetic and all the drugs they are given during the prodedure is such an insult to their little bodies.
Then there is always the risk that the dog will die under the anesthetic and a danger of damage to the trachea from the tube down the throat.
But the other side of the coin is the chance that harmful bacteria in the dog's mouth from poor oral hygiene could cause heart disease so we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't?
There are products now you can buy to put in their water that is suppose to help keep the tarter off their teeth. I wonder if they a safe alternative? Likely not and so unless you have a dog who will allow you to brush the teeth and one who is also a good dental bone chewer you end up with a real dilemma.

[Sugar]

Sugar was spayed in 2002 and had her teeth cleaned in 2005, 2007 and 2011. She started slowing down and showing signs of aging in 2009. Then in 2010 I took her to the vets because she had some panting spells and she was misdiagnosed with heart disease. I should have gotten a second opion before I allowed them to administer Furosemide 40 mg (for fluids) which upset her stomach and caused serious vomitting and diarrhea and so that drug was stopped and she was given Fortekor with the same dreadful results. Sugar never really recovered from this and even though I did take her to another vet who diagnosed her with Cushings and was put on vertoryl, she never came back to normal and died 23 Feb 2012 age 11 1/2.
Sugar had 4 major surgeries in ten years which may have brought on her Cushings Diesease. Then the added insult of the 2 heart drugs only pushed her over the limit.
Here is her blog if you have time to take a read chronicling her life's journey and struggles.
http://sugar-cushingsdiseaseindogs.blogspot.ca/2012/02/sugar-20-janurary-2002-23-february-2012.html

[Roxee's Dad]

Such wonderful pictures you have posted of Sweet Sugar. Such a cutie :-)

Regarding your question on why so many dogs with cushings, I don't know if we will ever know why or what causes cushings or how long it's really been around, but I do know that raising awareness will help many a cush pup live out a better life. I know Marianne and a few others have dealt with it much longer than I but when I was first introduced to cushings, there were not many vets that were familiar with it. Today I can say that many more pups are being at least tested for cushings rather than the vet just assuming the symptoms are age related.

[busyman370]

Thank you Fred for chiming in and I think you are wise making the decision not to have any serious surgery done on your dogs after the age of 7 and you may have just hit on the common link to Cushings.
My mother was a Peke breeder for almost 30 yrs, and she felt the same way and that was to try to keep dogs from having too much surgery and vacinations.
Sugar unfortuately was not a chewer of rawhides or chew bones of any kind and I am sorry to admit that in the 10 yrs she lived with me she had her teeth cleaned 3 times. The physical stress to the body alone not to mention the anesthetic and all the drugs they are given during the prodedure is such an insult to their little bodies.
Then there is always the risk that the dog will die under the anesthetic and a danger of damage to the trachea from the tube down the throat.
But the other side of the coin is the chance that harmful bacteria in the dog's mouth from poor oral hygiene could cause heart disease so we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't?
There are products now you can buy to put in their water that is suppose to help keep the tarter off their teeth. I wonder if they a safe alternative? Likely not and so unless you have a dog who will allow you to brush the teeth and one who is also a good dental bone chewer you end up with a real dilemma.


Regarding the teeth. I brush their teeth after I dip the brush lightly in listerine. I know you're not supposed to drink it, but the minute amount that I use is not enough for them to swallow, and I am killing at least a significant amount of bacteria by doing so. If I miss a few days, their breath reminds me of it! None of my dogs ever died of listerine poisoning, and it works great. I did run it by my Vet before actually making a habit out of it, and he said that with the tiny amount I use, he couldn't see any harm in it. Even a dry brush will do some good, so why not add a little bacteria fighter to it to help it along?

To go a little further on the subject at hand, I stopped vaccinating my dogs once their puppy shots were done. I would do a titer test every few years to see if their antibodies were up to the proper levels. I never had to booster any of my dogs. NEVER! That tells me something about the need to vaccinate as much as is recommended by most Vets.

But I set that in motion many years ago with my Vet. It would be hard to find the newer Vet's agreeing not to do the usual protocol of vacc's.

And, when my dogs get older, and especially my Trixie with her Cushing's, I get a note from my Vet regarding licensing, and do not give Rabies vacc any longer either. My dogs are only in the house or their fenced in yard, so the risk of them getting Rabies is about the same as me being the next man on the moon.

Bye the way, I was discussing the subject of illness following anesthesia, including dental procedures, and during the conversation, my Vet made mention of some farmers who only bring their dogs in when they are sick, never an exam and especially no dental. I asked him rather snidely if the die any younger than the dogs who follow the usual protocol, and he looked a bit bewildered and answered; no, they don't.

I love to tweak him when I get the chance! LOL

Fred.

[Sugar]

Thanks John for checking out Sugar's album. She was a precious little girl, smart, good looking and bossy, all in the same 14 pound bundle of love. Sugar wouldn't sit around and wait for something to happen she made it happen.

[Sugar]

"I brush their teeth after I dip the brush lightly in listerine."Sounds like something worth trying. Thanks for the tip Fred.

"To go a little further on the subject at hand, I stopped vaccinating my dogs once their puppy shots were done." I think it is time for the vet world to find a happy medium with vaccinations.

"Bye the way, I was discussing the subject of illness following anesthesia, including dental procedures, and during the conversation, my Vet made mention of some farmers who only bring their dogs in when they are sick, never an exam and especially no dental. I asked him rather snidely if the die any younger than the dogs who follow the usual protocol, and he looked a bit bewildered and answered; no, they don't." Sometimes a lot of what we have done on our pets is just a money making process for the vets but it is hard for us to know what is necessary and what isn't when certain procedures are suggested. We want to do what is necessary to keep them healthy but on the other hand we don't want to do something just because it is suggested by the vet who has become more of a business person than a care giver. I think there is a fine line between the two.

[Sugar]

To go a little further on the subject at hand, I stopped vaccinating my dogs once their puppy shots were done. I would do a titer test every few years to see if their antibodies were up to the proper levels. I never had to booster any of my dogs. NEVER! That tells me something about the need to vaccinate as much as is recommended by most Vets.

Before I adopted Sugar, she was in a foster home and these are her first medical records that we know of:15 Dec 2001, Sugar received Vanguard 5 L, vaccination against distemper, parvovirus etc.
19 Dec 2001, Sugar received her rabies vaccination.

She received two needles within 4 days of each other. In my opionion that was a lot for a 12 pound dog to have to deal with and I suspect she wasn't in the best of health at that time having recently been on the street. She was thought to have been around a year old and without any record of her shots prior to the time of her rescue it is difficult to say what if any vaccinations she may or may not have had. During her time with me I did not have any more vaccinations given to Sugar