My Sweet Angel Peg [Archive] - Page 2 - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

SasAndYunah

01-04-2015, 01:12 PM

Hi Marianne,

I too am so sorry to hear that Peg isn't doing all that great :( Regarding the lick granuloma's... Start by shaving of the hair that surrounds the area's (all the bacteria and stuff will gather in the fur there) and then please consider using a Betadine solution to clean the wounds several times a day and then apply a thin layer of honey, put a gauge on it and wrap it with VETRAP SELF ADHESIVE BANDAGING TAPE (http://www.amazon.com/3M-VETRAP-ADHESIVE-BANDAGING-COLORS/dp/B00JX3U8HA/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1420394213&sr=1-1) This will make it easier to change bandages after having been outside in wet conditions :)

The Betadine solution will disinfect the wounds (clean every 2 hours when the wound is oozing, if not clean at least 2 times a day) and the honey will help healing (http://www.evet.dk/files/Honey%20for%20Wound%20Care%202.pdf)

Consider cleaning her paws/legs with a Betadine solution after each walk during allergy season...you could use a washcloth :)

Lots of love and all our best,

Sas and Quincy :)

SasAndYunah

01-04-2015, 01:20 PM

Oh yes, I forgot.... I had a fosterdog, some years ago, Panda, who had a clavus removed from one of his paws? He too had to wear socks to protect the paw and wound from the surgery to remove the clavus. I just now remember that I used to tape the "toe-part" of the sock. I just put several (many) layers of duct tape on the toe of the sock (on the outside of course) and this would help tremendously in keeping the sock dry and not to have to change the sock all that often :) It even would help in dry weather...cause with the layers of duct tape, he could walk with that sock without the sock tearing so fast due to the surface :) So maybe this will help you too...

Sas :)

addy

01-04-2015, 07:36 PM

Oh no, here I thought the posts on your thread were well wishes for 2015 and now I see Peg is having some trouble.:(
You can keep a low bucket or tray with some betadine and water next to the door and just give her feet a quick rinse off but if she is now limping that won't work so well. The last time she was limping wasn't it a bite on her paw?

Darn Marianne, I am so sorry to hear that sweet Peg isn't feeling well.

Budsters Mom

01-04-2015, 09:24 PM

Addy, Lovely Luna had the last paw problem. It wasn't Peg that time.;)

The last time she was limping wasn't it a bite on her paw?

labblab

01-05-2015, 07:07 AM

Dear All, thank you so much for your warm thoughts and excellent suggestions. I am taking bits and pieces from what everybody has written to put together a treatment plan for Peg going forward. Plus, Kathy, I just noticed your suggestion about the Pawz rubber booties on Molly's thread, and I think they might easily solve the issue of protecting Peg's sock bandage when she goes outside. Supposedly my local Petsmart and Petco both carry them, so I will check them out later this morning.

So now I will await the lab results and we'll go from there. Aside from anything else, I remain somewhat surprised at this sudden onset of pretty acute mobility issues. I don't think the problem is likely an actual injury or dislocation, because she is able to walk and even run normally at times. But when she first stands up, boy, she is really hobbling. I did some investigation and the specialty group where Barkis was treated now has a big physical therapy/rehab center. After an initial exam and consultation, they will recommend appropriate home exercise/therapy as well as of course offering in-center treatment including a whole range of stuff -- acupuncture, laser, hydrotherapy, etc. So if Peg's issues persist this acutely, I might see about at least taking her in for the initial assessment.

Anyway, thanks again for all your suggestions and I will update with her lab results just as soon as I get them.

labblab

01-05-2015, 10:09 AM

Just spoke with Peg's vet, and I am kicking myself for not getting a urine sample in for analysis earlier. She has every urine abnormality pointing to acute cystitis (blood, crystals, etc.), as well as a dipstick protein level of 3+. The infection can be elevating the protein, but I think that is the highest it can be :(. However, we can't proceed to a UPC with that kind of sediment and infection present. Albumin was again a little lower and as I had originally thought, could be associated with significant protein loss if it is truly present. Obvious first step is to clear the infection.

Given all of Peg's combined issues and the complexities of drug interactions with phenobarb, the vet wants to consult today with an IMS down where Barkis was treated. He very carefully went through the whole drill with me re: protein-losing nephropathy, with which of course I am only too familiar through all the experiences of our dear members here :o. But it is everything we already know: try to clear the infection, then redo the urinalysis w/ a UPC, check her blood pressure, and then add meds, etc., to treat if called for.

What I don't yet know is whether her low albumin level is an especially ominous marker. I know the result of low albumin is really, really bad if it drops too low. What I don't know is how easy it is to remedy that problem with treatment. I'll start my list of questions, that's for sure.

My first impulse is to beat myself up over not checking her urine earlier so as to have gotten a jump on all this. But I truly do know that will do me no good, so I will try to leave it be and just move on. And now the mobility problems remain a big question mark. I don't believe she can have any NSAIDS with a pending kidney problem, and we probably need to have some x-rays done first, anyway, if she remains so gimpy.

I will let you all know what the IMS thinks about all this and recommends later today.

Squirt's Mom

01-05-2015, 10:20 AM

Well, not the news I wanted to hear either but I hope this isn't pointing to a serious problem but something that a change in meds, etc. can correct or at least improve. Please let us know what the IMS has to say and what the plan from here is for our sweet Peg.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))) ))))))

Budsters Mom

01-05-2015, 11:27 AM

Well, this sucks! :o:(

Please keep us posted.;)

molly muffin

01-05-2015, 03:23 PM

Well dang Marianne. Don't beat yourself up, even though I know you will, because, well it's who we are right. :) But crystals do change things, and if you can first, see if there are stones that need to be taken care, get on a food to get rid of the crystals, then recheck the protein after that has been cleared, you'll have a better idea. Remember, 3 UPC in a row, with consistently high UPC, to actual confirm protein losing kidney disease. I'd start getting Blood Pressure checked to as it was no time before Molly's went up.

We're right here with you!!!
hugs

labblab

01-05-2015, 04:02 PM

Thanks so much for checking in, Sharlene, and yep I'll try not to put the cart ahead of the horse. But there has to be some explanation for this chronic lowering of her serum albumin, and proteinuria sure would explain where it's going. :(

Crystals are a whole new ballgame for me, so I guess I'd better start reading up. Still awaiting the callback from our vet.

Renee

01-05-2015, 04:43 PM

Hi Marianne - I have certainly missed many a UTI in my day, and it's hard not to beat ourselves up over it!

I have found that with acute onset of arthritis or mobility issues, sometimes dogs will 'clench up' so to speak, or tighten their muscles to combat the pain. I have had very good success using methocarbomol to help them relax. When my Ichiro, who has moderate mobility issues in his back end, is feeling painful he has a hard time settling or laying down. The methocarbomol really helps him to just relax his muscles a bit and not be so tight.

Whole Dog Journal has some excellent articles on crystals. I believe that many dogs having naturally occurring crystals. Tobey always had, no matter what. It's when bacteria / infection set in that the problems start.

momakah

01-05-2015, 05:08 PM

Dear Marianne, just wanted to say" Good Luck"with your gorgeous girl and that shes soon on the mend from this.
I am so grateful to you: even when you are having your own worries you still took the time to respond to my concerns. Thank you so much. :) Harrys Mum ( from England)

labblab

01-05-2015, 06:53 PM

Thanks so much for your suggestions and support, Renee and Harry's Mum. The methocarbomol might be a possibility, although it probably would be an issue in combo with the phenobarb due to risk of oversedation. But I can surely ask the vet about it. He just now called, and this is the upshot for this evening.

He talked to the IMS, and we all agree that jumping on the cystitis is the first priority. The lab is doing a culture and sensitivity, but I'll go ahead and pick up an antibiotic tomorrow to start out on. We have been walking such a fine line with her diet that we are not going to mess with that right now, but instead recheck the status of everything, crystals included, once the infection clears. Although there is the obvious possibility of genuine proteinuria, the IMS reminded me of what I had already read last summer: the true issue may not be that her albumin is low, but instead that her globulin is high (those two proteins are two halves of a whole). And high globulin could stem from an ongoing underlying inflammatory condition which is certainly possible given Peg's chronic GI issues. Anyway, once we can finally get an accurate UPC, at least that puzzle piece will be answered.

Her BUN is also still abnormally low, and in combo with low albumin, that could signal liver issues associated with the phenobarb that have not yet shown up in her other labwork. Since Peg has now been seizure-free for over three years, we may go ahead and try lowering her phenobarb just on general principle. I feel nervous either way with that: I don't want liver problems, but I also don't want to ever witness another grand mal...

Anyway, the first step is just to start the antibiotic. I will go over in the morning to pick it up, and I'll have the chance to talk things over in greater detail with our vet. One huge plus is that we have such a great relationship with him. He really does treat this as a team effort, and there is no question that he won't try to answer or research. I didn't even have to ask him about consulting with the IMS this morning -- he wanted to do that all on his own since Peg is so complicated. He really does love her, too. :o

molly muffin

01-05-2015, 07:41 PM

It is a real plus to have a vet who is already on team Peg. :) And one that you know will work just as hard as you will to figure out what is going on and what is the best route to take. Sounds like you have a plan, sure hope the pheobarb is not playing havoc with the liver.

huggers

Renee

01-05-2015, 11:23 PM

Wow, that is a lot to think about, but some really good ideas. Scary as it is.... trying a lower dose on the phenobarb is not a bad idea. I think it's really great that your regular vet works so well with the IMS. Best of both, right!?

Budsters Mom

01-07-2015, 12:33 AM

Has Peg started the antibiotic?? How is she doing today?:confused:

The Pawz take some trial and error. Don't give up if you think they might be able to help. Try the Green x-large size first. Although they won't match Peg's purple, she'll be styling just the same. After all, keeping her sore foot dry is really the point. ;) She only needs to wear one, right?

labblab

01-07-2015, 07:06 AM

Hi Kathy, thanks for asking! We started on Clavamox last night and so far, so good. We should get the results on the culture and sensitivity by the end of the week.

As far as the Pawz, I am really struggling with just shifting to a dreaded cone and giving up on leg/paw wraps altogether. Peg is obsessed with licking that leg, and as soon as I cover up one area, she launches into a new one. She has never been this difficult to manage in the past, and I may not be able to find any other way to break the chain. I so hate to put even a comfy cone on her because she becomes so easily stressed about anything out of the ordinary. But that may be the only effective alternative at this point.

The whole chronic allergy/skin issue does raise an interesting point because that was one of things that the IMS specifically asked about because those problems can account for increased globulin levels (which ends up lowering albumin levels). So it may be a combo of issues that is skewing her bloodwork. I will be so anxious to get this infection cleared, though, so that we can move on to a UPC if her urinary protein remains high. A lot of detective work still to be done, I think.

Oh, and her phenobarb level was again perfect, right in the middle of therapeutic range. However, we may still consider lowering her dose and hope against breakthrough seizures. We will hold off on that, though, until we can better assess the urinary protein. One thing at a time for the moment.

SasAndYunah

01-07-2015, 12:15 PM

Marianne,

I may be totally wrong here... but why don't you give Peg a temporary Prednisone course? As far as I know, the only interaction between Phenobarb and Prednisone is that Phenobarb will lower the efficiency of Prednisone some...

As you may remember I had not the same, but a simular situation with Cukie. I had him on anti seizure medication, he had Cushing's and I had him on Prednisone (for something else) And as I remember it, it was the Cushing's (meds) and the Predniso that didn't go well together but not the Phenobarb and the Prednisone. With that many things going on, I too opted for quality of life. So, if Prednisone is not especially harmfull to Peg under the circumstances...that sure would bring some relief for her itches.

Sas and Quincy :)

labblab

01-07-2015, 02:25 PM

Sas, that is a very interesting suggestion that I had not even thought about. Earlier on in her life, I was not anxious to get involved with prednisone, but it might indeed be helpful now on a limited basis. It might even help with any other smoldering inflammatory issue that she's got going on. It is definitely something to discuss with the vet, so thank you!

Also, Pawz update: Hubby is working from home today and with his help we got the purple Large one on. It does seem to be the ideal size once it's on, but there is no way I could ever get it on all by myself. Peg's paws are very wide and fat, and one of us has to grasp her paw while the other one stretches the bootie over her paw with both hands. I don't think even shifting to the green will solve that problem, but I can exchange them in order to give it a try just to see.

molly muffin

01-07-2015, 03:33 PM

I sort of hold the paw between my hands, put one and on each size of the pawz booties, with a thumb inside on each side to stretch it and then put it over the paw. I couldn't do that at all with the first size but I can with the second one (red) I picked up. It fits snug around ankle but doesn't seem to pull the hair and is a bit loose around the paw but that is fine, she walks okay, runs whatever in them.
She just doesn't like the procedure of them being put on her. I have to turn her upside down in my lap (after I catch the little dickens that is) and hold her feet hostage to the booties till they are on. It's a major undertaking and takes quite a while to get them on correctly and her ready to go out the door. I think I'll need to give myself an extra 15 minutes for bootie procedure added to the morning routine. Not easy finding Any extra minutes on days I go to the office. ARGH

It might be worth it to try the green ones. As I said there was a lab with them on yesterday at the pet store when I made my exchange. She said her dog has no problem with them.

prednisone might be worth looking into and certainly chatting with the vet about. It's just not something we think of very often on this forum. LOL

labblab

01-07-2015, 03:35 PM

prednisone might be worth looking into and certainly chatting with the vet about. It's just not something we think of very often on this forum. LOL

Ain't that the truth!!!!! ;) :D :D

SasAndYunah

01-07-2015, 04:27 PM

Strange, isn't it? :D For years, I too, disliked Prednisone and avoided using it whenever possible. That was during and post-Cushing's era ;) Now, I'm stuck with an itchy, chewing, gnawing, hairlosing dog...and wham, Prednisone is first on my mind these days :D Anyway, hope it can relief Peg's itchy problems for now and give her some chance to recover from this episode without a lot more "damage" and infections to her legs/paws. (and maybe it will help some too in her moving around more easily...) Am curious what you vet thinks about it :)

Sas and Quincy :)

labblab

01-07-2015, 04:39 PM

Yes, we definitely forget that prednisone can be a miracle drug for many conditions. Of course, it has its own set of risks and side effects, but sometimes it is also a lifesaver, that's for sure!

Trish

01-08-2015, 03:17 AM

HI Marianne

Sorry bit late to the party, but have been battling a few things here with the protracted head cold and then heading back to work this week has sure been a shock to the system!

Is she handling the antibiotics ok? Hopefully that will clear up her infection and then can recheck and see what the protein is doing. I cannot remember offhand if you posted her other renal indicators like creatinine and urea. Hard to tell what is causing the low albumin as a few things can cause that, as you know renal is one of them but tummy troubles like IBD, liver etc etc. I agree with waiting till the cystitis settles and maybe the paw too before retesting. Those inter digital cysts are a pain in the butt for them, hopefully the antibiotic will help that too. Flynn had two last year and we used neotopic cream which contains hydrocortisone, neomycin and lignocaine a local anaesthetic which helped settle them down, along with antibiotics when it was red and nasty looking. Might stop them irritating her so much too.

15 mins for booties :eek::rolleyes:?? Bugger that haha... how about just whipping on a simple bread bag just to cover her sock when she needs outside, just to keep it dry. A band of some sort.. maybe just something like a scrunchie to hold it up while she is out.

If you are looking at steroids I would not go an NSAID at the same time, might just be too much for the tummy. Shame the apoquel is still not more widely available for our itchy pups, it certainly worked wonders on Flynn. You are meant to continue it but because it is in such short supply I stopped it a few months back and **fingers crossed** we have got through his traditional bad itchy times of spring and now into summer with no return of excessive scratching.

He also has a similar problem with limping on front legs when he gets up, it does come and go a bit and will run well when off least with no sign of it. He had been on Pentosan, bone and joint supplement that contains green lip mussel, chondroitin and glucosamine which I think are the main supplements that help with arthritic aches. IMS suggested we stop Pentosan which we have done and right now I have not noticed any deterioriation. But he remains on daily Previcox, even with his renal and liver issues. It is a real QOL dilemma and I want him comfortable above all else so for now while it does not seem to be doing any harm we will continue with it. We are keeping check on his renal and liver values at the same time and mostly holding steady for now.

As with so many of the pups it is a juggling act and I know we all walk a fine line sometimes trying to balance everything. Hope these issues come right soon Marianne x

Tina

01-11-2015, 04:00 PM

Marianne,
I am finally doing some catch up on the forum, and am wondering how Peg is doing. I read on Trish's thread that she had some trouble with the Clavamox and you switched her to Simplicef. Jasper was on Clavamox over the summer for I think about six weeks to kick that stubborn UTI that he had. His bacteria was strep, so we didn't have much of a choice we had to go with the Clavamox. I remember it caused some problems with his appetite, but I don't remember his poops getting bad with that. I hope the Simplicef ends up working well for Peg and that she is feeling better soon.

As far as the urine protein issue, I just wanted to share that my lab Dakota used to get UTI's quite frequently through her life. She often would have a 3+ dipstick protein during the time of an infection and she typically did not spill any protein in her urine throughout her life. She also would have crystals from time to time, if I remember right I think they were calcium oxalate. So I guess I just want to give some support that it is possible that the protein level in Peg's urine could be entirely related to the infection and I'm hoping that that's all it is. The crystals could be infection related too. I remember it was always a dilemma whether the crystals caused the infection, or vice versa. And I know for sure that blood being present in the urine does increase the protein. I saw that her BUN was low, how was her serum creatinine?

And how are things going with her paw and leg? Those lick granulomas can be so difficult to get settled down. I hope it is showing some improvement. And how about her mobility? You have a lot going on with your sweet girl, and I hope things are settling on all fronts.

Regarding the Pawz, we use the red size small in our house. I am lucky that Jasper will lay on his back while I put them on. More of a struggle with Shelby, but she is getting better about it. They are a little big for her, so easier to get on. The next smaller size would probably be best for her, but I am going to see if we can get by with them both wearing the same size this winter.

I will be watching for an update on Peg.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Trish

01-12-2015, 03:49 AM

Flynn got an upset gut on Clavamox too, we try and avoid that one now. Good points from Tina re the proteinuria, be so nice if that went away! Hoping that paw is on the mend! xxx

labblab

01-13-2015, 08:33 AM

Thanks, everyone, for all your thoughts and comments. Right now we are in a holding pattern until the end of the week when we finish the first round of antibiotic and recheck the urine to see whether we are clear to proceed with accurately evaluating protein. We are holding off on changing or adding any new medications until we see what the scoop is regarding the protein. Due to her low serum albumin, checking for protein was my original goal in even requesting a urinalysis. So it will be a relief when we can finally move on with that. I honestly don't know what to hope for in terms of identifying a cause for the declining albumin. I guess an inflammatory condition that is increasing globulin would be preferable over kidney or liver issues that are decreasing the albumin. But it will be what it will be, after all. And I'm anxious to figure it out so that we can get going if treatment will help. Oh, and Tina, her CR is right in the middle of normal range.

Sharlene, I have not forgotten about getting Peg's blood pressure checked the next time we have her in. The vet agrees it should be done, and I'm assuming he can do it himself from something he said earlier.

The mobility issues wax and wane. She is always stiff now when she first stands up, but sometimes she walks it off pretty quickly and other times it really lingers. She started running with no problem when we walked on Sunday, but then was very gimpy that evening -- perhaps from overdoing. So once again, after we know more about the kidney/liver situation, hopefully we will will feel safer about moving forward either with NSAIDs or pred. From a practical standpoint, the biggest problem is that she can no longer jump directly into the car. We have bought both stairsteps and a ramp and right now she wants nothing to do with either. But we have to solve that problem ASAP because there is no way I can lift her alone and hubby has a torn rotator cuff so he should not be lifting her either since she weighs 80 pounds.

The sores on her leg and paw are healed but naked of fur, and she still wants to obsessively lick those areas the moment the sock comes off. So I am experimenting with trying to tape up her leg and that area of her paw so at least we can dispense with the sock since it is such a nuisance to try to keep the sock on her.

Overall I am very grateful that she is reasonably stable this week. But also trying to emotionally deal with the fact that she seems to have aged a year just since Christmas! We had been bopping along so smoothly for these last couple of months, and BAM :( -- such a sudden change!! I am trusting that we will get a handle on things and figure out a way to make her feel more comfortable. But I also realize there is no turning back of the clock, and that does make me sad. However, I will do my best to love and appreciate every single day we are allowed to spend together. My sweet girl!

addy

01-13-2015, 08:36 AM

Hugs Marianne, enjoy each day with sweet Peg. I hope this is just a bump in the road.

Squirt's Mom

01-13-2015, 08:56 AM

I'm here, Marianne, but don't have much input to offer. :( It does sound like mean old Arthur has come to visit our sweet Peg, tho, with the stiffness on getting up then loosening as she moves. I hope this week is the start of improvements all 'round for her.

My sweet Ginger

01-13-2015, 09:45 AM

I don't either but sending plenty of hugs and kisses to you and sweet Peg. Song.

ScottieBoo

01-13-2015, 10:54 AM

Budsters Mom

01-13-2015, 12:41 PM

Okay Mommy Marianne, it's definitely time for a story and a laugh. I can't help with the technical stuff, so I'll do what I do best. Here goes.....

My brother has always gone big with big dogs, while I have chosen small. By big, I mean huge, immense, gigantic, St. Bernard's!! His dogs have always pooped out more than my little ones weigh per day. His beloved, sweet, disgustingly drooly, Noah crossed the bridge last year. He weighed 186 pounds. The only time that Noah ever rode in the car was to go to the vet. Getting a St. Bernard into a car when he doesn't want to go is hilarious for the observer, but maddening for those actually trying to do it. During the last five years of Noah's life, this problem became more challenging as he aged. My brother announced repeatedly that he would have no more big dogs. That he was too old and not strong enough to handle them anymore. I arrived at his house one day just as my brother, sister in law, daughter, her fiancé and four neighbors were trying to load a reluctant Noah into the car. After a rather intense tug of war game where Noah was the victor and the rest were in an exhausted heap by the car door, they regrouped. They all got into the car very excitedly and called Noah to join them. He looked at the 8 idiots in the car and turned and walked away. By that time I was rolling on the ground laughing hysterically. After several hours, Noah finally relented and got into the car. It took the entire staff to get him back into the car after his appointment.

About six month passed. My brother's family was ready to adopt a SMALL dog. They went to the local shelter and came home with a BULL MASTIFF!! Hilarious!!! :D:D:D:D:D

Feel a tad better??
Big hugs,

labblab

01-13-2015, 01:36 PM

Yes I do! ;) :) :)

Renee

01-13-2015, 02:16 PM

Oh Kathy! That is hysterical!! You can't make up that kind of humor, lol.

Budsters Mom

01-13-2015, 03:07 PM

I learned a whole lot from Buddy's journey. There were many times when he was younger and wanted to cuddle or play. I was often overwhelmed with every day life and very busy, so playing and cuddling didn't always happen when he wanted it. It happened when I wanted it and had time to do it. His wishes were often put on the back burner for later. :o

Now with Rosie, she's always jumping up on my lap, bringing me a noisy toy or a ball to throw a 100 times or zooming around wanting to be chased. Although it's impossible to catch her unless she wants to be caught, I stop what I'm doing to play, cuddle or walk her to the park. I now don't take these precious moments for granted because she won't be young, strong and healthy forever and there won't always be a later. i took Buddy's healthy years for granted. I will not make that same mistake with my little monkey girl.:p

So Marianne, continue to spoil our sweet Peg and cherish every moment. ;):p

I will do my best to love and appreciate every single day we are allowed to spend together. My sweet girl!

molly muffin

01-13-2015, 06:16 PM

If I remember correctly, Tina and Trish, both say to give it a bit between having something going and cheaking the UPC as anything like infections, gastro flare ups, etc can increase the UPC and you won't get an accurate reading. I know you want to find out pronto so you can put a plan together, but if the urine is clear of infection, it might be worth it to wait a week to do the UPC so you get a clear reading on what is going on and don't have any false inflation of the number to worry about.

They said molly's eyes had aged 2 years in 2 months. To me they still look pretty bright and sparkly, but to those who don't see her ever day, there was a difference I suppose. Her legs have gotten worse over the past few months, but the vet said the supplements was helping and she isn't exhibiting any pain, so those are definitely worth it.

Depending on what the UPC shows when it is done, artho meds are most likely going to be needed to some extent and it will be worth it see what the vets have to say. You must have a huge list by now of questions to ask and possibilities to explore.

Kathy, that is way too funny. I guess a bull mastif is a small dog compared to the St. Bernard, but just wait till they have to try to get a mastif in the car that doesn't want to go. LOL (take pictures, it'll be priceless)!

hugs

Harley PoMMom

01-13-2015, 08:21 PM

Hey Marianne, Do you thing you could coax Peg into the car via the ramp using food/treats as a prize for her?? Keeping you and Peg in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs, Lori

labblab

01-14-2015, 03:14 PM

Quick question for all you free-catch urinalysis experts...

When you are doing a UC:CR, I know you need to collect the first pee of the morning. But does the timing matter for other things, such as a standard UA or a UPC?

SasAndYunah

01-14-2015, 04:35 PM

Hi Marianne,

in all occassions the first morning urine is preferred since it is the most concentrated and thus easier and a better chance to detect things.

Sas and Quincy :)

molly muffin

01-14-2015, 05:10 PM

I was told by the vet first catch of the morning is what they want. The specialist will get it when she is there though, even in afternoon. I'd always go with the morning if I am turning in a free catch.

Harley PoMMom

01-14-2015, 08:26 PM

The first morning pee is usually required for a regular UA, I haven't read or been told that the urine sample for an UPC has to be the first morning. What is very important for the UPC to done correctly is that the urine sample contains no sediment, blood...etc. which is why a regular UA is done first and if no sediment is found than the UPC will be done. Harley had many UPC's done and almost all the time they were done by Cystocentesis (needle guided with an ultrasound) so the urine sample was sterile.

labblab

01-16-2015, 07:53 AM

Sooooo...I'm all ready to collect Peg's pee this morning. I obsessively sterilize my little plastic cup, I practiced multiple times over the last couple days and all is perfect. Forgetting, however, that it would still be pitch dark this morning for the first pee. So I am juggling a flashlight as well as the leash and cup, but still, all goes well I think :). Until I get inside and see three big black furs floating on top. AARGH, not such a clean sample, after all. :(

Oh well. I will go ahead and collect from her next pee (in the daylight) and take them both in so he can have his choice. Or just do it over again tomorrow if he wants me to (with hubby helping with the flashlight). :rolleyes:

That's a good point, though, Sharlene. When the vet took the first sample by cysto, it was during Peg's afternoon appointment. So that was definitely not the first pee of the day, either.

labblab

01-16-2015, 11:30 AM

OK, the results are in. Improvements, but the infection is not totally cleared so we will do another week of the Simplicef. The crystals are gone, though, and the dipstick protein was a bit lower (plus there was some blood present so that could also contribute to the protein). I will take the overall report as a plus :) rather than a minus, and we will stay the course for another week.

addy

01-16-2015, 01:17 PM

I'm happy to take it as a plus.:)

molly muffin

01-16-2015, 01:40 PM

Definitely a plus. With the protein going down as the crystals have disappeared and perhaps going down even more, hopefully to nodda once the infection itself is cleared up, that will be one less thing to have to worry about.

Remember, we never do UPC if something else is going on as almost anything can trigger protein it seems.

huggers, it's a good day. :)

Budsters Mom

01-16-2015, 02:49 PM

Oh well, I was looking forward to my visual of hubby following Peg around with the flashlight, while you are trying to catch up her pee. ;):D:D:D

I am happy to read that things are looking up for our sweet Peg. What about you Marianne? Getting any better? Ear clearing? Still seeing fireworks when there aren't any?

Big hugs,

Trish

01-16-2015, 04:08 PM

Yay for good news!! We will take that :D:) I often thank my lucky stars Flynny is a boy as it makes catching a good clean specimen so much easier!! I get the first morning pee too... as you know in a very unscientific study of mine, that his UPC is higher when he has been drinking and urine more dilute. I know it is meant to regulate this in the sample, but I have noticed it for sure!! I do not think UPC needs to be sterile, clean catch is fine. xxxx

addy

01-16-2015, 07:28 PM

I noticed Zoe's was higher later too, Trish, and I did first catch, let her pee a little first then try to get some urine.
I agree with your unscientific findings:D:D:D:D

labblab

01-23-2015, 12:57 PM

Well, we finished the second week of Simplicef and I took in another free-catch sample this morning. Vet just called, and from the inhouse analysis the sample remains clear of crystals but there are both some rbc's and wbc's still showing up, and the dipstick protein is very, very high again. Given what all is going on with her, he wants to obtain another totally sterile cysto sample next week to submit to the lab for formal analysis to let them better quantify the rbc's and wbc's, so as to decide things like whether there is a basis for reculturing again, are there enough rbc's to be significantly elevating the protein, is the sample clear/clean enough to run a UPC, etc. While we have her in, he'll x-ray her back and hips, and hopefully also take her blood pressure.

So I am good with this plan. She will get a break from the antibiotics over the weekend, and we'll take her in Monday morning. Hopefully we will know more about several things after that.

Renee

01-23-2015, 02:22 PM

These pesky UTI's are so much work sometimes!

SasAndYunah

01-23-2015, 05:17 PM

Sounds like a plan to me too :) For now, just go and enjoy the antibiotics-free weekend...:)

Hugs,

Sas and Quincy :)

labblab

01-26-2015, 03:31 PM

Well, we are back from the vet visit. A sterile urine sample was drawn; cursory dipstick analysis before sending it off still shows blood, significant protein, and some WBCs. I've come home with yet a different antibiotic to which the e. coli also originally showed sensitivity. Dunno why the Simplicef didn't clear it, but we will start on the new one until we get the formal UA results back. Since presumably there is blood in the sample, aside from anything else, that will undoubtedly preclude us yet doing a UPC. As before, imaging revealed no stones in the kidneys nor bladder. So the blood is likely either due to infection or glomerular dysfunction. I wish we could get this darn infection to clear so that we can at least rule that part out! We both are betting that she is truly losing significant protein in her urine, and are feeling impatient to move on with treatment if that is the case due to her ongoing tanking albumin. There is no direct remedy for the low albumin other than finding/treating the cause, and if it keeps dropping it will become life-threatening. So even though it is not protocol to start treating without proof of consistent proteinuria, I asked him today if he would consider starting her on enalapril if we get even one UPC over 2.0 (or if we are not able to ever do a UPC because of the consistent presence of blood). I know he will talk these things over with the IMS, so we shall see.

Moving on...her blood pressure was normal, so that was a big plus! :)

Not so good were the skeletal x-rays. Legs are OK; spine shows age-related degeneration, but nothing serious. Her hips are in bad shape, so that's the problem. They both are bad, and this wouldn't have just developed overnight, so it's hard to know what suddenly triggered this acute change in her pain and behavior. But there you have it. Given the current uncertainty re: her renal function, he is strongly opposed to giving her any NSAIDS right now. She already gets glucosamine, chondroitin, and fish oil supplements. We are fortunate in that there a couple of veterinary rehab specialty practices in our area, and he thinks it would be well worth a consultation to see whether there are other non-drug interventions that may more safely help her (acupuncture, cold laser, hydrotherapy, etc.). So we may likely schedule a consult once we get this other medical diagnostic stuff more under control (yes, those expenses keep mounting, and Luna is now overdue for her annual exam...:o).

So that's where we are today. With remaining questions, but at least some answers. I now know that these lifestyle changes will be permanent for her and for me, so that will take some getting used to. We need to minimize stairs which is very hard with the way our house is set up both inside and out. "The Girls" will no longer be a pair in terms of the majority of their walks and being turned freely out into the yard together. I will now need to always walk Peg out our front door and around to the back of the house to get in and out of the yard. It was always so easy just to open the backdoor and let them run down the deck stairs which they did a dozen times each day to pee, poop or play :o. And we are still really struggling with getting Peg into the car via the steps or ramp. So that will take a lot more work because she just can't/shouldn't jump any more. But it also means that both she and Luna will get more individual time alone with me. That changes the make-up of the "pack," but it also will allow me to devote special time and love to each of them all on their own. So that can be a big plus to offset at least some of the changes. It's just hard in three weeks' time to go from having them both being so actively joined at the hip to this very changed scenario. But we will figure it out!

SasAndYunah

01-26-2015, 05:10 PM

Hi Marianne :)

It must be difficult indeed having to wait for the UA results before you can continue to do, what possibly needs to be done, treatmentwise...but just hang in there a little bit more :) And hopefully this anti biotic will do the job...keeping fingers crossed!

The hips, that must be devestating news..at least that they are as bad as they are. It means the end of an era...and that goes hand in hand with grief. But also, you and the girls will find your new ways into this changed situation and that will cause some great times, fondness, and a whole new bond :)

I won't bother you with advice and/or tips....first you get to terms with everything and when it's needed, just let me know :)

Big hugs,

Saskia and Quincy :)

Budsters Mom

01-26-2015, 05:18 PM

Now that's a lot to process. :o

Are you going to barricade the stairs with baby gates?:confused: I'm sure that Peg uses them automatically and doesn't even think about it. It will be challenging with Luna going one way and Peg the other, but you will make it work. Both of our girls are in great hands.

Hugs,

Harley PoMMom

01-26-2015, 05:26 PM

Oh Marianne, I am so sorry that nasty UTI is still lingering. Was the urine sent out to have an urine culture and sensitivity test done?

With Harley's arthritis, which was in his front leg only, I used tramadol, some say that it doesn't help with arthritis but it did with Harley, and it is easier on the kidneys that those NSAIDs.

I will be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Sending huge hugs, Lori

mcdavis

01-26-2015, 05:29 PM

So sorry to hear about Peg's hips. I would definitely suggest looking into the acupuncture option as I remember when Hamish had his sessions the vet mentioned that she was able to treat other illnesses (in his case the GI issues) at the same time. Maybe they will be able to help with the UTI?

Altira

01-26-2015, 05:57 PM

I know what your talking about. All I can say is... Geez the things we do for our dogs!!! Hang in there.

labblab

01-26-2015, 06:03 PM

Thanks guys! Yes, I've heard of positive results with acupuncture, too, so I will be interested in consulting about it and also those other options like hydrotherapy and cold laser.

Lori, the first cysto sample was sent out for culture and sensitivity, and according to the results the e. coli should have responded to both Clavamox (which we halted due to bad poop) and also Simplicef which we then gave for two weeks. Today's sample will again be cultured at IDEXX depending on the outcome of their microscopic analysis. I meant to but forgot to ask today about Tramadol. I am guessing that it may not a great choice in conjunction with phenobarb because of the cumulative sedating effect. But maybe it would be OK at the times that she is especially gimpy. I hope so!

Kathy, I wish we had to barricade the stairs, but that's one of these huge sudden changes :(. It's clear that it really hurts her to use them now. She's tried a couple of times to bolt out the backdoor with Luna and charge down the deck steps. But then she's stuck at the bottom looking up, like "uh oh" now how do I get back up there again? It must hurt a lot more going up than down. She has stopped trying to head up the stairs to our bedroom at all during this past month, which is a huge change for her.

And Sas and Janis, thanks for understanding! Yep, it will take a little time to wrap my head around exactly that: the end of an era. :o

Budsters Mom

01-26-2015, 10:18 PM

Yes Marianne, it is all sooooooo expensive!:o I was still paying off Buddy's bills long after he was gone. We do all we can, then find a way to pay for it. :o

Sending hugs and healing energy to you all. These changes, although necessary are hard on everyone.

Please check on the Tramadol. It could help Peg feel much more comfortable. I have a friend who's Cocker has been taking phenobarbital for a seizure disorder for several years. He has difficulty with both of his rear knees and has been given tramadol many times.

Squirt's Mom

01-27-2015, 08:23 AM

Squirt had problems going up steps after her surgeries but not down. The vets all said she could go up all she wanted but to not let her go down on her own, it would be too painful on her knees. I believe she heard this directive and did exactly the opposite just to show us all who was QUEEN and would do as she pleased when she pleased! :p

It seems when an infection gets in the urinary system it can really sit down and stay a spell - in humans as well. It would be nice if that new test was available and the new treatments, too, so Peg could maybe take advantage. I hope this round of ABs gets rid of that nasty infection and that at least will straighten out so you can focus on the rest with more ease.

Keeping you, Peg and all yours in my thoughts and prayers. Keep your chin up, Mom! You are exceptional at this job so I know, and Peg knows ;), you will shine now as always.

Renee

01-27-2015, 05:14 PM

Marianne, I wonder if Peg just needs an extended time on the abx? Sometimes 10 days or 2 weeks is just not enough. A 3 or 4 week course may be needed. Certainly been there with Tobey in the past.

Trish

01-28-2015, 06:24 AM

What about cartrophen for the arthiritis? Might help? Gawd that UTI is a pain in the butt, agree that a longer course may be needed to get rid of it for good. Lucky having the rehab centre close by, hope they come up with some suggestions to make her more comfy! xxxx

addy

01-28-2015, 08:41 AM

Maybe water therapy? Easy on the joints but builds muscle.

An end of an era is hard, but you will have very special time with Peg. When I had to split up Zoe and Koko, it gave me very special time with Zoe, I talked, she ate chicken:rolleyes: while we walked.

I think we should not mourn what was, but somehow turn the now in to a positive. I know that special bonding time with just you and Peg will be very special to you both. My advice, though not asked for ;):o "Don't look back, stay in the present".

love and hugs to you and sweet Peg.

labblab

01-29-2015, 05:43 PM

I think we should not mourn what was, but somehow turn the now in to a positive. I know that special bonding time with just you and Peg will be very special to you both. My advice, though not asked for ;):o "Don't look back, stay in the present".

When you are this wise, Addy, your advice is forever welcome. :o :)

Interim report to be updated further tomorrow...
After three days, IDEXX is not getting a culture growing so far. So the infection may be whipped after all. But they have found some blood, crystals, inflammatory cells, and 4+ protein persisting. So that raises additional question marks if the infection is gone, and we may have more than one issue at play here. My vet will consult with the IMS tomorrow and we'll see what the next step will be. We did not discuss it today, but I am guessing an ultrasound will be in store for us so as to rule out tumors and to better visualize the kidneys. I will let you all know what I find out tomorrow.

Harley PoMMom

01-29-2015, 06:10 PM

Hoping that this isn't anything major, maybe Nephrolithiasis, and that stone is in the kidney just sitting there being its nasty self.

Keeping you and sweet Peg in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs, Lori

labblab

01-29-2015, 06:24 PM

Thank you so much, Lori. I should have instead said earlier that we may be sent to the specialty practice for more involved imaging down there. Our regular vet has already used their ultrasound to guide the cystos, and he has seen no bladder or kidney stones. But I am assuming the specialty practice has more sophisticated equipment. I will find that out tomorrow.

labblab

01-31-2015, 07:16 AM

Soooo...another interim update.

Regular vet called last evening to let me know the IMS had not been able to get back with him yesterday, but hopefully they will talk on Monday. He said he has a long list of questions for him. :o

The culture never did grow anything so it looks as though she did not need these additional doses of new antibiotic, and the real downside is that when I got up this morning she refused her breakfast for probably the first time in her life :(, and there were multiple pools of upchuck around the house :( :(. She has not yet pooped, so I don't know what that will turn out like.

Good news is that her dad just came downstairs and she got up to greet him with her tail wagging. She doesn't otherwise seem acutely ill in any way, so I will just assume it is the antibiotic that got to her. She had one dose left but I will not give it to her. I will hope she can hold down her morning phenobarb and I will get her some chicken and rice for this evening.

Oue vet says this IMS is the smartest guy he knows; I Googled him and his credentials are fabulous, and one of his specialties is inflammatory conditions. So I will feel confident in whatever guidance he offers us next week and I will let you know what he says.

addy

01-31-2015, 09:36 AM

Oh Marianne, I am so happy the IMS has fab credentials and that you and sweet Peg will be in good hands.

I hope being off the antibiotics help Peg. Simplicef sometimes bothered Zoe when she had to have a repeat dose and despite her IBD, that dog never threw up.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sending positive vibes to you both.

Budsters Mom

01-31-2015, 11:06 AM

Well, not what anyone wants to see first thing in th morning. I am hoping that my visual is worse than it actually was.:o:o It's always distressing when they refuse food. :o

So glad that your vet is consulting with the other doctor and that he has awesome credentials. The neurosurgeon that oversaw Buddy's treatment, consulted daily with my vet for free. There are vets out there that truly care.;)

Hang in there through this weekend Marianne. Hopefully you'll have a new plan come Monday. xxxxoooo

when I got up this morning she refused her breakfast for probably the first time in her life :(, and there were multiple pools of upchuck around the house :( :(. She has not yet pooped, so I don't know what that will turn out like.

Squirt's Mom

01-31-2015, 11:29 AM

Hopefully it is the ABs making her nauseated - just got off the phone with a friend who is so sick from a round she is on so hopefully she and Peg are in the same boat with the meds. Let us know how the day goes.

The IMS sounds like a good deal and I hope he can see her soon!

labblab

01-31-2015, 05:49 PM

I was gone much of the day running errands for my mom. Hubby said Peg seemed fine while I was gone. I bought ground chicken breast and rice on my way home, and cooked it up mid-afternoon. She had not had anything to eat all day so I tested her with a small bowl of it around 3:00. She seemed happy to eat it, which really cheered me since she had zero interest in a piece of kibble that she would normally inhale. Just now offered her a little more around 6:00, but she refused it this time and is just laying around. Nothing acute, but not herself. So I'm afraid what I gave her before has nauseated her again and I will not push any more tonight.

I would like to give her a Cerenia, but I just checked and what I have on hand is two years past expiration. So I don't feel too comfortable giving that. I'm hoping she will bounce back tomorrow. It is just so out of character for her not to eat. Truly, I think we've only gone through this once before in her life. Even when she had acute pancreatitis, she still wanted to eat!

maria

01-31-2015, 06:04 PM

Sorry, I can relate. My dog got a dexamethasone injection (steroid) and blew up like a balloon and peed a lot. The question is, is she also drinking a lot of water? Does she appear to be incontinent or is she just not getting out in time to do her business. My Beagle does this. She pees buckets ( we got rid of the carpeting) but she usually does not pee in the house if I let her out every 2 hours. If I don't then I get what you are going through. What I would do is go to CVS or another pharmacy and get some Chux ( big blue incontinent pads for humans) I would then put a small amount of her pee on there for sent and keep her in a small room. Let her out every 2 hours and monitor her drinking. But first, I would call the vet and make sure it is nothing more serious than the steroid injection.

labblab

01-31-2015, 06:12 PM

Oh Maria, thanks so much for thinking of us, but our problem right now is vomiting :(. I am thinking you must have read my earliest posts in this thread from quite some time ago, when the steroid and incontinence was going on. But thankfully that resolved within a day or so and has never been an issue again.

This time around, Peg has been taking antibiotics for a UTI and we're afraid it has really upset her stomach. But thank you so much for stopping by and trying to help!

Marianne

Harley PoMMom

01-31-2015, 08:50 PM

How about the slippery elm bark?

Budsters Mom

01-31-2015, 09:21 PM

Slippery Elm Bark was the only thing that helped with Buddy's stomach issues. He was allergic to pumpkin and Pepcid AC did nothing. I kept him on SEB until he was ready to fly.

I have also used it a couple times for Rosie when she's gotten in the crap outside that she shouldn't be eating and has ended up vomiting. It has worked like a charm both times, but I can't give it to her any longer than absolutely needed because it makes her itch after couple of days. It is worth it though.

I am have even taking it a few times myself but when my stomach was out of whack and it worked well then also.

SEB is considered perfectly safe, but must be dosed two hours before or after any other medications, because it could interfere with the absorption of those medications. SEB coats the stomach allowing it to settle.

I'm with Lori. I think that's a great idea! My friend's dog that is on phenobarbital (to control seizures) is also given SEB to settle his very nervous stomach.;)

labblab

01-31-2015, 11:07 PM

Budsters Mom

01-31-2015, 11:34 PM

Since her poop was okay, maybe her tummy just needs time to settle from the antibiotic. Chicken and rice has always worked well for Peg, although sometimes she has to stay on it for several days. Depending on how tonight goes, hopefully she'll feel up to eating a little bit in the morning. They seem to know what they need better than we do.;)

Big hugs Marianne. I know you are worried. It's always worrisome when they don't eat.:o

Spiceysmum

02-01-2015, 03:50 AM

Marianne,
I have never seen it mentioned anywhere on this site before but our dog trainer swears by Colloidal Silver. He is an international sheepdog trainer and has used it successfully for his dogs and himself for infections, allergies etc. I googled it and it does have some remarkable claims but a couple of reviews that started some side effects. I don't know if it is used in the US or not. The trainer recently heard about a clients dog that was very ill and gave them some to give to their dog and within a couple of hours he was a lot better and they didn't even have to take it to the vet appointment that was booked! It's just a thought and I don't know how you feel about 'alternative' therapies.
I understand how hard it is and how everything changes when our dogs get older but it does bring us even closer together, if that's possible. It is very worrying too. Hope Peg is feeling better today.
Linda x

Squirt's Mom

02-01-2015, 06:54 AM

Quite a few folk swear by colloidal silver but it scares me with the heavy metal content so I've never been tempted by this one.

I hope Peg is feeling better this morning and her tummy is adjusting to the med (yes, "Doc Richards" has decided this is all due to the meds and will sort itself out very shortly. :D).

labblab

02-01-2015, 07:02 AM

Thanks so much for stopping by, Linda, and like you, Les, I'm hoping we are already on the road to recovery, though --

Drum roll, please...no sick episodes overnight and Peglet has willingly polished off a nice little helping of chicken and rice this morning. :) :)

I am a very relieved mom because even if she gets picky again later on, at least I know she was hungry for her breakfast! ;)

Squirt's Mom

02-01-2015, 07:04 AM

Oh great start to the day! Way to go, Peg! :cool::cool::cool:

Harley PoMMom

02-01-2015, 09:35 AM

That's great news, Marianne, and will be praying that she continues to improve.

Budsters Mom

02-01-2015, 04:14 PM

So glad she ate! Hope it continues!:p

judymaggie

02-01-2015, 04:50 PM

Marianne -- so glad that Peg is feeling better! :D

mcdavis

02-01-2015, 07:05 PM

Unfortunately, in the past Peg has not responded well to either pumpkin or SEB so I am reluctant to try it again right now. I was using it for diarrhea before, but it seemed to prolong the problem rather than help. Peg does not seem to respond very well to those supplements with increased fiber. She did finally poop this afternoon and it was OK, so I hesitate to do anything to screw up that end of things, too. :o

I've been following this thread and I'm sorry to see that Peg is still not feeling too well. Not sure if it will help, and it may be different from one dog to another, but my understanding is that a very small amount of pumpkin can help firm things up, but a larger amount will act as a laxative. This was definitely the case with Hamish.

Budsters Mom

02-05-2015, 12:36 AM

Hi Marianne,

Popping in to check on Peg?:confused:

It's been a few days without a word. I hope it's because she's doing better. ;)

labblab

02-05-2015, 07:33 AM

Hi Kathy, thanks for checking on us! :)

I had been waiting to write because we are in a bit of a holding pattern. I am taking in another free-catch sample this morning in hopes it may be suitable for running a UPC, but fearing it may not. As it turned out, last week's culture never did grow anything, so we are still left with the question as to what is responsible for the blood and white cells that are precluding the UPC, and is there any way to clear them.

Negative culture notwithstanding, the IMS said we could proceed with an extended antibiotic course just to make sure there is no infection still smoldering. My vet and I both agree, though, that after three weeks already on antibiotics, the trade-off to that is upsetting Peg's GI balance which is such a problem in its own right. Fortunately she's gotten straightened out again quickly after her vomiting/inappetance over the weekend. But do we want to go back there again with no actual evidence of infection? The immediate gameplan is just to take in some more free-catches to see whether any of these abnormalities get cleared out enough to proceed to a UPC. If not, I guess we may just leap onward to an ultrasound at the specialty practice so as to go ahead and visualize the kidneys, etc.

So it is a bit of a waiting game at the moment...

labblab

02-05-2015, 09:29 AM

P.S. Vet just called and he is sending the sample on to IDEXX because he did not get any red or white cells in his preliminary check. So that is progress!! Fingers crossed they can proceed to a UPC. I know it sounds crazy to be excited about doing a UPC which I'm guessing will show elevated protein, but I just want to get on with things. It will be better to know than not to know.

SasAndYunah

02-05-2015, 09:47 AM

Waiting games are some of the worst, aren't they? :) About the bacteria, or actually, the lack of bacteria in Peg's urine... Did you know that the majority of canine bladder infections have a non bacterial cause? Could be stones or...(can't find the right word....) almost like very fine grinded stones, dustlike....could be stress, could be allergies, could be viral or a combination of all of the above. (to make it easier ;) ) Quincy's higher white bloodcell count in her urine is attributed to her allergies (she had an extended liver- and kidney panel done but everything else was perfectly fine so they concluded it was allergy related) Since Peg has allergies..could this be the case with her as well? By hte way, the absence of stones or...the very very tiny more dustlike stuff ( :D ) in the urine doesn't mean there aren't any stones in the kidneys and they may cause the blood in the urine.
I don't quite understand why the waiting game right now? (sorry, I may have missed some things that would explain it though) Why not do an extended liver- and kidney bloodpanel..that will tell you at least if something's wrong in that area and then you can go and have an ultrasound done to have a closer look at what's going on. I'm not quite sure what the waiting is for exactly...sorry :) To have a UPC done...that I understand. But would a liver- and kidney bloodpanel not also tell you more about what's going on? Or is there a specific reason that I am not aware of why it has to be a UPC and nothing else? I'm so sorry for all the questions...forgive me :)

Wishing you, Peg and yours all our best,

Sas and Quincy :)

SasAndYunah

02-05-2015, 09:49 AM

Oops, we posted at the same time... :) Hooray for the absent white bloodcells :D

labblab

02-05-2015, 11:56 AM

Hi Saskia! All of your thoughts and suggestions are very much appreciated, as always. Hopefully, here are a few answers to make more sense of why we've been hung up on the UPC.

Peg had her 6-month comprehensive blood panel done on January 2nd in conjunction with her phenobarb level check. As in the past, all her liver markers were perfectly normal, as was her creatinine. In fact, the only abnormalities (which have been persistent now for 1-2 years) are low BUN, dropping albumin, and increasing globulin. There are different factors that could account for some and also all of those three issues, so the trick has been to try to investigate the cause/s. Liver issues could account for all three and of course we worry about her liver with the phenobarb, but right now we have no direct evidence of liver problems. Tick-borne illness has also been ruled out.

Inflammatory issues of any sort could cause the albumin/globulin imbalance, and we already know she has both skin and GI issues. And you're right that inflammatory issues (or stones) could also account for the white cells in her urine. But the inhouse ultrasound did not reveal any stones in her kidneys or bladder, or any gross abnormalities of any sort.

Of these issues, I am most immediately worried about the continually decreasing albumin. It could be the case that inflammation such as skin issues could be raising her globulin, which automatically depresses albumin levels. But one obvious cause would be protein loss somewhere in the body, and theoretically the easiest thing to check first is the urine to see if it is coming from the kidneys or urinary tract. If protein is being lost from intestinal inflammation, for instance, I think it instead leaks into the stool and I don't know how/if you can easily test for that. Assessing protein in her urine should have been the easy first rule-out, and it would have been had it not been for the infection and all the blood cells.

But that is why we've been stuck awaiting the UPC. Her dipstick analyses have all returned very high urinary protein. If a valid UPC confirms high protein, then we probably have our answer and her blood and urine abnormalities are likely being caused, at least in part, by protein-losing nephropathy/glomerulonephritis. If the UPC is instead normal, then we have to look elsewhere, and at things that are not so easy to directly test.

I am guessing we will ultimately end up with some specialized imaging, no matter what. But a valid UPC will really help give direction to the path forward.

SasAndYunah

02-05-2015, 12:28 PM

Ah see, that makes perfect sense. I just wasn't up to date on my reading, appologies :)

I may not have been up to date on my reading but I sure would like to stay up to date on the hugs, so...big hugs to you :D

Saskia and Quincy :)

labblab

02-06-2015, 09:42 AM

Well, IDEXX was able to run the UPC and we just got the result: 1.0. So that is higher than normal, but not high enough to warrant treatment. So now we will be in a monitoring phase and will redo the UPC in a few weeks to see if the elevation persists and if there are changes.

I am definitely relieved it is not higher! But it's funny, I was so certain it would be really elevated and that would explain the albumin. I don't know whether this milder protein loss would be sufficient to account for it or not. Luna is due for her annual exam next week, so my vet and I agreed we'd just wait until then to talk over Peg's situation, too. So we've done what we can for the moment, and right now I'm planning on just enjoying the weekend! :)

Budsters Mom

02-06-2015, 02:48 PM

Yes, good news overall! :p

Have a wonderful weekend! :)

Harley PoMMom

02-06-2015, 10:01 PM

Glad to see that her UPC is not that high, when Harley's UPC was elevated his urine would form this foamy matter when it hit the ground, strange, I often wondered if the foamy looking stuff was the protein spilling out.

Have a fabulous weekend, and give both of your sweet girls a big hug and kiss from me.

labblab

02-07-2015, 07:15 AM

Yes, I think excessive protein in urine can produce foam -- at least, that's the way it works in humans so it's probably true for dogs, too. ;)

Trixie

02-12-2015, 07:53 PM

Hi Marianne,
Stopped in to catch up on posts and say hello to everyone who I know:D ...and just reading about Peg's tummy upset from a few weeks ago..I'm glad she began to eat again and doing well. I really panic when Trixie vomits...wish I could stay calm but after the pancreatic episode of last year when she vomits I freak. Then I start testing her, trying to see how she's feeling..I ask her if she wants a bag...because she loves tearing out paper bags...if she perks up for that I get a little less crazy.. but it's so hard when these gastro things pop up...and not eating is always so worrisome.
I'm reading through your post about Peg's blood test..trying to learn. Trixie recently had her CBC and her alkp remains high..and I'm told it may always be so. Always something to worry about.
Hope Peg is doing well though and that you and the vet can figure out the other things you're trying to solve.
Have a nice weekend.
Barbara

Squirt's Mom

02-13-2015, 07:50 AM

How is Peg feeling?

Budsters Mom

03-05-2015, 12:27 AM

Well, what's up with our sweet Peg? How is she doing?

labblab

03-05-2015, 07:57 AM

Thankfully things have been pretty quiet around here for the last couple of weeks so I have been appreciating the positives and trying not to worry as much about the question marks. I have several things to be grateful for. With much coaxing, Peg is finally willing to use the stairsteps to help herself get into the SUV, so I am able to take both girls back over to the lake together for our morning walks. That feels huge to me :) :)!! We go a shorter distance now, but Peg is eager to go along and I try to give Luna some additional exercise again later on in the day. Thankfully, we've had no return of the horrible hobbling, but the vet has now OK'd short-term rescue use of Previcox if she has another episode like that. We still plan to take her in to the rehab center for a consult, but I just haven't mobilized enough to get that done. My bad! :o

At the first of April, we will do another round of bloodwork and urine analysis to see if there are changes in the albumin level and UPC, and then go from there. Since Peg is outwardly stable again and enjoying her daily routine, I am happy to give us all a break this month from the diagnostics.

Thanks very much to you all for caring and for asking about her!

labblab

03-05-2015, 08:16 AM

Just wanted to add that I am trying to evaluate the phosphorous content of her food in the hope of lowering it a bit. I am not aiming at restricting the protein any more yet, especially since she is already on a pretty carb-heavy food, anyway, due to keeping the fat level low. But I think it would be good to try to keep the phosphorous level down to the extent I am able without also losing a lot more protein content.

I am feeling like a total dufus, though, in trying to calculate phosphorous content/guidelines! I'm using Mary Strauss' Dogaware article about kidney diets, but having a hard time figuring out the phosphorous calculations for some reason. But I will keep plugging along. It is just hard finding a commercial food that covers all the bases for Peg right now.

molly muffin

03-05-2015, 04:17 PM

You can get dry tripe or canned and it has high protein and low phosphorus.
That is a possibility. Dogs seem to love it.

flynnandian

03-05-2015, 06:22 PM

my old doggies do get a lot of-fresh- tripe too. low phosphorus indeed, probiotics, good ca/ph balance etc.

labblab

03-05-2015, 09:21 PM

I spoke too soon and jinxed us. We were having a nice walk at the lake and since nobody was around I let the girls off-lead (it is my own fault that they are not better trained to ignore distractions when others are present). I didn't see, until too late, that a dog and owner who are beloved to Peg had pulled into the parking lot clear across the lake. Peg saw them, though, and galloped off to greet them. Down a hill, across a bridge, jumping and stumbling. She was so happy to see them, but tonight she can barely hobble again. It is my fault; she shouldn't have been off her leash. I feel so badly she is hurting.

Budsters Mom

03-05-2015, 09:58 PM

Hi Mom,
You took the leash off for a short time to let her run free to greet a friend with carefree joy. A lab doing what they do best. Soooooo, why is this your fault????

You mentioned recently that you were going to really try to cherish every joyful moment you have left with our sweet Peg. Today was one of those moments. Yes, she's hurting now, but you gave her such a wonderful gift of forgetting for a few moments and just enjoying. ;)

Big hugs,

It is my fault; she shouldn't have been off her leash. I feel so badly she is hurting.

Harley PoMMom

03-05-2015, 11:33 PM

Marianne, you are the most wonderful, amazing, and loving Mom to your sweet girls. There is no reason for you to feel guilty in any way, shape or form. I bet Peg just loved having that breeze blowing through her hair as she was running to see her friends that she loves so much. Now, no more guilt, you hear! ;)

Love and hugs, Lori

molly muffin

03-06-2015, 06:42 AM

Let's look at the positive. Peg had fun. Peg has Great eyesight!

Big hugs

labblab

03-06-2015, 09:11 AM

Yep she really did enjoy those five minutes, but a pretty steep price to be paid :o.

Back to square one for the moment and no walks at all. Can't get in the car, can't do any stairsteps, can't go out in the yard to noodle around. Just looks up at me with forlorn eyes when I slip out the door with Luna for her walk. I will probably go ahead and try a Previcox today to see if it helps.

But this is the kick in the butt I need to head out today and visit the two rehab centers that are possibilities. The one that has the broadest services is the farthest away and also looks to be the more expensive. So hopefully maybe the closer one will also impress me as much or more.

If she is this fragile that she can't even run over to see her friend, we need to do whatever we can do to try to help her.

molly muffin

03-06-2015, 09:20 AM

That is definitely an issue as dogs will run if they can and they will want to play and jump. So, yea, a drive over to check out the rehabs seems a good idea. Hopefully the one closest to you will work fine.
She just over did it and you didn't know it would return like this because of one good run. Now you know. Sometimes, most of the time, it is just trial and error. We can't anticipate everything unfortunately. She'll be back up and around soon.

hugs!!

labblab

03-06-2015, 10:05 AM

Yes, I trust she'll be back to her new normal again soon. But the new normal is still pretty limiting for her, especially if it means she always has to be restricted to just walking and always on leash. I'm sorry to see how much this small adventure messed her up.

My big worry (and I know Trish will flog me over worrying about what might go wrong :o ;)) is that she is going to blow out a hip by tripping or falling. Hip replacement would not likely be an option we would/could consider, so that would be pretty catastrophic for us. Very catastrophic. She is pretty unsteady on her feet at all times now, and my heart just stopped yesterday when I saw her heading down that hill.

But that's one of many reasons why the rehab consult would likely be helpful -- so that they can professionally assess the hip degeneration both on x-ray and in terms of function. I know the x-rays look really bad on the face of it, but maybe things are not as bad as the films make it seem. Either way, it will be important for us to know.

mytil

03-06-2015, 10:46 AM

I am so sorry things just cannot get sorted out for her on this. Thinking of you both.
T.

molly muffin

03-06-2015, 10:59 AM

I know exactly what you mean. I watch molly's hip and back leg like a hawk it feels like. But between the hip and the luxating patella's and surgery not being an option for her (so 3 vets have told me) it is a worry all the time and she is an idiot, running jumping and sometimes wiping out. (those cause heart failure) So I do understand.

Hugs

Harley PoMMom

03-06-2015, 03:03 PM

Just wanted to add that I am trying to evaluate the phosphorous content of her food in the hope of lowering it a bit.

The new Hills K/D stew variety doesn't look to bad, the first 7 ingredients listed are : Water, Chicken, Carrots, Rice, Pork Liver, Chicken Fat, Peas... http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-kd-chicken-and-vegetable-stew-canned.html It has a phosphorus of 0.3 (dry matter).

Spiceysmum

03-07-2015, 03:35 AM

Marianne,
Sorry to hear about Peg's latest setback. We are going through the same thing with Tess. Physio says we have to give her short walks on the lead and not let her run around. How in earth do you keep a 9 month old springer spaniel still? We manage it on walks but in the garden or even in the house we can't. We feel bad that she can't be a normal puppy but the physio says it is short term loss for long term gain. He says she will be able to do more once she has finished growing. She has luxating patellas as well as the hip dysplasia in one hip.
Hope Peg settles down again, it is such a worry.

Linda x

Harley PoMMom

05-23-2015, 02:15 AM

Hey Marianne,

I found this article regarding pancreatitis that was published in 2013 from Dr. Jörg M. Steiner, and I thought you might be interested in it. http://www.wvc.org/images/session_notes_2013/2013_sa143.pdf

How is sweet Peg doing?

Hugs, Lori

Budsters Mom

06-18-2015, 12:46 AM

Well Marianne, Graduation was today and I'm officially off on summer break. It was a very long day!

Now that that's over and done, it's past time for an update on sweet Peg and lovely Luna. Let's recap…. We left off with Peg chewing away on a stubborn cyst on her paw and having some mobility issues. Luna, had an outbreak of the creeping crud, in which I refused to entertain the idea of it being CC and still do. It seemed to be responding to the antibiotics at last report with no further outbreaks.
So, how are both girls doing now?:confused:

labblab

06-20-2015, 01:49 PM

Hi Kathy, and thank you kindly for asking about the girls! I apologize for taking so long to reply. I saw your note immediately, but I kept getting distracted by writing stuff on other threads. As for sweetie Peg, she is rockin' along. I've stopped trying to load her into the car for anything other than driving to the vet. So that means an end to our "family" walks at the lake, but I walk her for a bit here in the neighborhood each morning (when it's not too hot!) before I head over to the lake with Luna. Limiting her use of stairs and keeping her out of the car seems to have helped ease her soreness/stiffness a bit. She very much enjoys getting out of the house, though, and actually gets to socialize more here in the neighborhood, which she loves. Nobody is a stranger to Peg! So we ease our way down the street, with lots of dawdling and sniffing and tail-wagging should a neighbor greet us.

We had bloodwork done last month, and wonder of wonders, her albumin had crept back up to the bottom of the normal range. So I took that as a blessing, and actually ended up not repeating her UPC at that time. She has to go back again in July for her phenobarb level and chem panel, so probably we'll do another urinalysis then, too.

The sore on her paw comes and goes. It especially returns whenever she has access to lick it :rolleyes:. So at this point, I think we all have to live with the sock on a pretty permanent basis. It is a royal pain, but we do what we need to, don't we? :o

So all in all, I cannot complain because she has been stable and happy, I think. I'll quickly comment on Luna, although I should probably write about her on her own thread. But after six weeks without any new skin outbreaks, we just now found a new dime-sized sore this morning when we bathed her. We were very bad and let her go for three weeks between medicated baths, and I think we are paying the price. Of course, the bigger issue is that since we found a new sore today, it means the spring outbreak was not just a one-time episode and we have to wonder what is at the bottom of it. But if we can keep ahead of the overt problem by bathing more often and doping the spot up with a topical ointment, I may put off getting started with a bunch of involved testing. She otherwise seems perfectly fine (I've stopped worrying about her peeing), and I just don't have it in me right now to head in to a specialist. So I think we'll stick with "wait and see" mode for a while longer. I'll talk it over with our vet when I take Peg in for her labwork.

So that's the scoop from our doghouse! Thanks again for asking, and congrats on being officially on summer break! :D

Budsters Mom

06-21-2015, 10:04 PM

Thanks for the update Marianne. A good report overall.:p

Keep us updated. ;)

molly muffin

06-22-2015, 07:11 AM

That's great that peg is stable. So sad she can no longer do the lake walks. It sure sucks to see the changes as they get older. Still that she is a happy girl says a lot about how well she is taken care of. Drat on another sore. Grrr.

Hugs

SasAndYunah

06-22-2015, 11:13 AM

So, things could be better but they also definately could be worse....we'll settle for that for now :) It's the changes that might be the hardest right now, the saying goodbye to year-old routines, mourning the loss of these routines but once past that, you'll start cherishing this new phase in all of your lives :) It will bring new experiences, new interactions, new understanding and deepening of the bond... :)

Hugs,

Saskia and Quincy :)

labblab

10-06-2015, 08:05 AM

Well, it's time for a new update for Peg on her own thread. And for right now, I think it's as good as we could ask for. :)

Hubby took some days off last week so he was able to help me get her loaded into the SUV and in to see the vet. We did not do any urine analysis this time, but all of her bloodwork was normal including her albumin. The albumin is again right at the bottom of the normal range, but it registers as normal so that suits me fine. And her phenobarb level remains perfect -- right in the middle of the therapeutic range. We have been so lucky all these years that she has responded so well to the phenobarb. That has been such a gift.

Given the fact that her liver and kidney blood markers are all good, the three of us discussed and agreed that we would go ahead and start giving Peg the NSAID Previcox every single day instead of only when she is especially struggling. There are risks with the drug but quality of life trumps everything else at this point and it appeared to us that she was pretty much constantly in some degree of pain now when she moved about. So, after three days of Previcox, I found Peg sleeping up on the couch again last night, and this morning she actually galloped down the street to greet her neighborhood friends on our little walk. Priceless! #HappyMom!

As a sidebar, I'm also happy to report that Luna has only had one more tiny spot and overall, her skin and coat just keep on looking better and better to me. Saskia, you're going to get tired of hearing me thank you, but I do believe your suggestions about the shampoo/topicals have made a huge difference for us. ;)

So right now, hubby and I are smiling and we are enjoying this quality time together with our little family of four.

Marianne

Squirt's Mom

10-06-2015, 09:34 AM

Great update! I'm so glad she is doing better!

mypuppy

10-06-2015, 04:37 PM

Awwww Marianne! I am so glad I visited today and read your HAPPY:) update on Peg. It just made my day to read those feelings of utter JOY when our babies bounce back--PRICELESS indeed. EnJOY the moment and praying and wishing for many many many more my sweet friend.

You are loved...<3

Tight hugs always.
Xo Jeanette

"We cannot direct the wind...but we can adjust the sails! (Author unknown).

judymaggie

10-06-2015, 04:49 PM

Marianne -- great update on Peg and Luna! :D

lulusmom

10-06-2015, 05:05 PM

It looks like I showed up at the right time to get your good news too. I know how you felt to see Peg come to life, thanks to a NSAID. It can be truly remarkable and melts your heart. I'm glad both of your girls are doing well.

Hugs,
Glynda

SasAndYunah

10-06-2015, 05:19 PM

Ohhhh I can so imagine how that must have felt to you, to see Peg up on the couch, sleeping and to see her galopping down the street to greet her friends.... :D Life is all about risks and managing them the best we can...but sometimes the benefits outway the risks and you just have to go for it and enjoy :) I personally strongly believe once you made a decission in favor of one over the other....let go of the doubts and questions and just enjoy the results :) So go Peg, goooo ;)

Today I spoke to Quincy's dermatologist and we discussed everything I was doing for Quincy ( bathing her weekly with an anti bacterial and anti fungus shampoo, bathing her weekly with an anti seborrhea shampoo, cleaning her ears every other day with a special cleanser, applying 2 different topicals, once a week each (so every 3 o r 4 days she gets a spot on topical), I use an anti flea spot-on that also kills mites every 4 weeks,giving her essential fatty acids, I clean her paws with a betadine solution after every walk and of course the desensitation shots). So it's quite a comprehensive "treatment" she receives. But if I leave only one of them out, or let more time pass between treatments, she immediately responds with more itching. And the dermatologist told me about another dog that was on a treatment protocol of desensitation shots, weekly medicated baths and Apoquel. The dog was doing so very well, the owner stopped the bathing and the shots. In no time, the dog was itching like crazy, had open sores and was a mess. I tell you this to show that it can be different in different dogs, the treatment protocol. One dog will do fine with only the shots, another needs shots, baths, spot ons and medications on top of it...and once you have found what works for that one dog, you cannot change it....it is the combination of the different treatments that work. And it also shows that giving medication like Apoquel by itself, may not be enough. It saddens me when I hear people say that the meds didn't work and then they give up...and the dog spends the rest of it's life itchy and miserable... the spot ons, the baths, they can make a huge difference, by themselves or in combination with meds, it's just finding the right combination :) And I am truly very very happy that this routine you are now using on Luna seems to be working very well for her :) (and mind you, very well doen't mean there never will be another lesion/spot ever again, it just means she will need a lot less meds like anti biotics and or predison and such...and that is huge :) Keep up the good work :D

Saskia :)

Beaglelover

10-07-2015, 01:05 AM

Marianne, thinking of you and Peg. I'm happy to hear she's doing better. I am by far no expect, but it seems the injection Peg got caused the peeing. Please keep us posted

Hugs from returning member (Tammy and her girl Jenna)

addy

10-07-2015, 07:58 AM

Popped in and saw the update on Peg and was so happy to read it.

I hope there are many more, Marianne.

SasAndYunah

10-27-2015, 01:08 PM

And it's been over 4 months now that we've heard about Peg (at this thread, that is :) ) so time for an update about precious Peg :)

Sas :)

labblab

10-27-2015, 05:29 PM

Awww Sas, it's sweet of you to ask! I am very happy to report that Peg has not had any problems of which we are aware with the Previcox that she started about three weeks ago, and she seems to continue to benefit from it with less pain and stiffness. She has really been enjoying the cooler fall weather and is anxious to set off on our neighborhood walks every morning. She has been getting lots of compliments on her glossy black coat (thanks to the Douxo shampoo!). Everybody wants to stop and pet her, which she loves. For the most part, she kind of ambles along, but every once in a while she'll be motivated to trot along, and that makes me smile -- reminds me of her younger days when she'd get so excited that she'd "pogo" up and down at my side. I know the spirit is still inside her even though the bones are not so willing any more. :o

We love Halloween at our house, and she has a bright orange collar to wear and Luna has a vivid purple collar. So I'm sure it will be a festive weekend for us all. Thanks so much for asking about my precious big girl. :)

Marianne

SasAndYunah

10-29-2015, 02:39 AM

Ahhhhhh Halloween will be so much fun for all of you with the fun, colourful collars :) And the rest... ;) Glad to hear Peg is enjoying the cooler weather and loves to go for her strolls through the neighbourhood to get her share of hugs and petting :D Pretty in Black, that Peg :p

Wishing you and yours a wonderful Halloween...

Sas and Quincy :)

molly muffin

11-02-2015, 07:12 PM

Did Peg love Halloween? I wish molly would. Did you get pictures of them in their collars, all decked out?

Glad that Peg is able to enjoy and even manage a trot now and then on her walks. That just makes a world of difference when they can get out and about doesn't it :)

labblab

12-30-2015, 02:10 PM

Soooo, Peg did love her Halloween and everything had been going well for us until yesterday afternoon. Peg and Luna were both heading to the door to go outside when Peg got jostled and down she went. She had trouble getting up and has been barely able to hobble on one of her hind legs ever since. I'm assuming it's her hip, but I guess it could be her knee instead. Nothing seems to be obviously painful, though, and she seems to be comfortable as long as she is not standing.

Coincidentally, it was last New Year's Eve that we came home from lunch and found her limping so horribly and even though she recovered somewhat, we saw that her hips are terrible on x-ray and her mobility has never been the same. I surely have my fingers crossed, though, that she'll improve again from where she is today. I try not to over-stress, but that is a cloud that is never far from my horizon -- the fear that she'll have an acute orthopedic failure and that will be the end of her since she is not a surgical candidate. Not that I think we're there yet, by any means, but it is scary for me to see her limp so badly.

We will be bringing my mom back over tomorrow to spend the holiday weekend with us, and she will fawn over her granddogs. Don't laugh, but I asked her to bring some extras of her own Tramadol to perhaps share with Peg. If Peg is still so bad tomorrow, I'll ask our vet if I can add a Tramadol to the Previcox. I just checked, and my mom and Peg would be taking the same dose for their respective horrible hips. :o :o

If Peg is not better by Monday, I guess I will need to try to get her in to be re-evaluated and to find out for sure what has gone wrong. But hopefully we can muscle through the holiday weekend with no new problems. I want to spend this first 2016 holiday weekend with all our little family together. We've ordered one of those harnesses with a handle to help lift and hold Peg up, and it's to be delivered tomorrow. And thankfully she is finally willing to hobble up and down a little ramp to get out the door to pee -- that's a big help!

So there you have it. Please keep my sweet "baby" Peg in your thoughts, and I do wish peace and comfort to all our family in 2016. I know that I'm far from the only worried mom among us, so my fondest hope is that the new year will bring healing to our babies and some smiles for us all.

Marianne

judymaggie

12-30-2015, 02:31 PM

Marianne -- Abbie and I are definitely sending healing thoughts to Peg! Please give her a gentle hug from us --

Budsters Mom

12-30-2015, 04:56 PM

AWWWW Marianne.:o Of course you're worried. It sucks when they get older and can't move around like they used to. Yes, many others are dealing with issues too, that doesn't make yours any less intense, or important.:D We are all family here and love all our babies, whether they have Cushings or not.

Sending you much love and many tight hugs directly to you, and butt scratches to our Sweet Peg.

Kathy

molly muffin

12-30-2015, 06:11 PM

Oh dang :( and grrrr Poor Peg. I wonder about an adequan shot for her hip? Would that help her?

Hopefully it is just sore from the jostle and fall and will be fine with a bit of time and bed rest. I know that is what you are hoping too.

Nothing stops the worry until you see her doing better which I hope is very soon.

What fun to have your mom there for the holidays and I'm sure Peg and Luna are going to love all the pampering from grandma.

mytil

12-31-2015, 07:46 AM

Oh that is horrible --- poor Peg!!!
It could be a soft tissue issue (fingers crossed) - have you tried adding heat to the area and then a cold compress?

How are you doing with all the horrible flooding?

Please give my best to your mom and Jim? And gentle smoochies to the girls.

T.

Budsters Mom

12-31-2015, 01:58 PM

And how is Peg doing this morning? :confused: Inquiring minds wants to know????

labblab

12-31-2015, 06:30 PM

Thanks everybody for your very kind thoughts. Kathy, we're hoping Peg may be a bit better today but it's a little hard to judge because she is not walking around very much. Our vet was open for limited hours today, and hubby and I decided to stop in to talk with him on our way to pick up my mom. We discussed some possibilities as to what may be wrong. If Peg is not better in a week, we'll try to get her in for him to evaluate. In the meantime, he is OK with adding in Tramadol if we think she needs it, and sent us home with some to have on hand. I'm also increasing her Previcox dose a bit. Hopefully we will see some definite improvement through the weekend. She is such a good girl and does not complain. It's hard to see her down on the ground, but resting is probably the best thing for her right now.

Budsters Mom

12-31-2015, 11:40 PM

Well, at least Peg will not be depleting your moms tramadol supply!;)
Yes, she'll feel much more comfortable. I'm so glad you and hubby stopped by the vet. Since she went down with an injury, resting her hip/knee is probably the best thing for her right now. Vets always tell us to keep them off of it and give it time to heal. Please keep us posted.

labblab

01-01-2016, 01:31 PM

Thank you Kathy. And thanks so much to whoever lit the sweet candle for Peg. She and her mom appreciate it very much. :o :)

Budsters Mom

01-01-2016, 01:51 PM

Hmmm, I wonder who lit that candle? :confused: Could it possibly be someone who has been having a hard time having her lit candles appear with the others? Just a thought...

Happy New Year One and All! :p

labblab

01-01-2016, 01:56 PM

I wondered if that was the source of our shining light...;). YAY!! :D

Budsters Mom

01-03-2016, 05:47 PM

Well, how is she? :confused: thought I check in on our sweet Peg before returning to wok tomorrow.

It looks like we're actually going to get some rain for several days in a row here. It could be a myth. LOL :D It hasn't started raining yet. It doesn't take much to cause flooding. There is a storm drain built into the sidewalk right in front of my house. This is odd because we get so little rain. So little rain in fact, that we are in another extended drought and have mandatory water rationing once again. You get used to it.;) Anyway, when it does actually rain, many areas flood very quickly. Thankfully we are OK because of the storm drain. The upside is that we desperately need the rain and I love any kind of weather change. The downside is the kids at school. If it rains all week like it's supposed to, they won't be able to get outside and everyone will be climbing the walls, me included!:eek::eek::eek:

Please let me know how your weekend was with your mom and how our sweet Peg is getting along. Are the meds helping to manage her pain?

Kathy

labblab

01-04-2016, 07:33 AM

Oh Kathy, good luck with both the rain and also school! How are YOU feeling, by the way? You've had quite a coupla months yourself...!

Peg is getting around a bit better, but remains significantly compromised. It's hard to tell whether the injury has actually improved or whether she's just figured out how to adapt to it a little better. It hasn't yet been a week, so we remain hopeful for some more progress. But the way in which she holds her leg suggests that she may have blown out her knee ligament. If so, then we will all be adapting to a new, much less mobile "normal" because I do not think we would consider surgery for her.

I talked a lot with my mom yesterday about quality of life, because she feels as though she and Peg are pretty much in the same boat :o :o. It was a very bittersweet but helpful conversation for me. As long as Peg otherwise appears comfortable and normal except when walking, she sleeps well, and is otherwise her "self" with good appetite and zest for her indoor tricks and mindgames, we think life remains worth living to her. She may never take neighborhood walks or sleep on the couch again, but she can still sniff the grass of her own yard and now we have a soft dogbed set up for her on the floor right next to the couch. So I believe I am really prepared for her leg to either improve or not.

I'm taking my mom back home today (with her own new walker in tow), and hubby returns to work. So the holiday flurry and excitement comes to an end, and our "regular" lives resume once again. I will miss having the house full, that's for sure, and I know the girls will, too. They do love their Dad and Grandmother so much.

Marianne

molly muffin

01-04-2016, 09:19 PM

Awww, poor Peg. Does it actually seem to be hurting her? It is always amazing the ways they seem to find to adapt. Molly for instance became even more of a diva about being lifted for this, that and whatever other reason. Good thing Peg doesn't do that!!! Much harder doing the lifting thing with a lab. LOL

Molly too has been missing have the house so busy during the holidays and having her peeps around when she wants them. I bet your mom is missing being with you too.

I understand as we had to make a lot of changes with our golden retriever when she stopped being able to do all the things she used to do and love. Run, play, swim. We are finding we have to make some of the same changes with molly. She hasn't been able to go around the block on her walks now for a couple years at least. Oh she would like to, but I know I'd end up carrying her as her legs would give out about half way around. (20 minutes normally)

Peg sure does seem to still enjoy her things and that is great. A good sniff around the yard counts for a lot. :)

Happy New Year Marianne and family

labblab

01-05-2016, 09:42 AM

We love hearing about Diva Molly!! :) :)

Given Peg's size, we're definitely lucky that she'd rather do things on her own if she's able ;). Unfortunately though, yes, it does seem as if putting weight on her leg is quite painful. I'm honestly not sure how much the Previcox and Tramadol are actually helping because she is so stoic. But pain relief is kind of a Catch-22, because resting the leg may be the best thing right now and if the discomfort is masked too much, she may be more likely to try to tear around again and risk even more damage. All stuff to talk over more with the vet.

From our conversation with him last week, I think if it is the cruciate ligament and we don't intervene, scar tissue will ultimately form that will ease the pain but leave her limping pretty profoundly. But since she was already limping beforehand due to hip breakdown, we're thinking that intervention is not worth the risk.

Anyway, she can still play her favorite game which is bringing in a leaf or twig or gumtree "ball" in from the deck to "trade" for a piece of kibble. Our house was new construction and all manner of crap got buried in the backyard: glass, nails, insulation, etc. :eek:. When she was a puppy, I had a heart attack when she carried the first big nail in the house -- and the second, and third... To keep her from swallowing things, I taught her to bring everything to me to trade. Now, years later, thankfully the nails are all gone but the tradition remains. I love that she still feels up to hobbling out for a leaf, tail wagging, happily awaiting her treat in return. That's my baby girl!

molly muffin

01-05-2016, 06:14 PM

Awww, that is so neat that Peg brings you her finds for a treat. What a smart girl she is!!

Ugh, rest is what I've always heard works best if the surgical options are off the table. Which they are (for molly too, so I get it). It's just so hard to keep them down.

What I think I'd ask the vet is how long till scar tissue starts to form enough that it is a measure of any kind of pain control. That way you'll have some idea, especially if the limp continues as to what her condition is during the various stage of recovery for her.

Budsters Mom

01-16-2016, 01:20 PM

Well, where's our update on Peg?

labblab

01-18-2016, 07:11 AM

Thanks for prodding us for an update, Kathy! ;)

Peg is doing well. She has been improving, so perhaps the injury was not as serious as an actual ligament tear, after all. We thought she had kind of reached a plateau last week wherein she still favored her leg but was more mobile. Over the weekend, though, it seems as though she is even better yet. She remains somewhat unsteady on her feet and cannot handle steps, of course, but the limp is much less noticeable.

I delayed taking her in to the vet since we have been seeing improvement and, logistically, it will just be a lot easier to manage the appointment if she can walk around the clinic on her own rather than having to be carried! I'll still need somebody with muscle to lift her in and out of the SUV and carry her up the steps. But it'll help a lot if she can otherwise walk around, which now she can. I will probably try to get her in this week or next for both some annual labwork and to be evaluated professionally.

She is remaining on the Previcox, but we discontinued the Tramadol shortly after starting it. It did not seem to be adding any advantage with this particular injury. But I'm glad to have it on hand if we think it might help in the future.

So all in all, a pretty good report! Peg wishes she could go back out in the neighborhood for a walk, but for right now, we are still sticking with only letting her noodle around in the backyard. Maybe some brief walks will be back in the future, though, if she remains this stable.

judymaggie

01-18-2016, 10:11 AM

Marianne--so glad that Peg is showing improving. :D How fortunate that you have a yard for her to explore and release some of her energy.

Budsters Mom

01-18-2016, 09:48 PM

Yes, I am quite pleased with this report. :p You go Peg!!! :p

Please keep us posted. We are a bunch of worrywarts, as you very well know. :o

Altira

01-22-2016, 04:05 AM

:-) Sweet Peg...

SasAndYunah

02-04-2016, 12:56 PM

And how's precious Peg doing these days? :) Did the improvement continue? :)

Sas and Quincy :)

labblab

02-06-2016, 06:42 AM

I am very happy to report that the improvement did continue, and we are even back to taking our leisurely neighborhood strolls to meet-and-greet all of Peg's friends! My mom is here with us this weekend, and it touched my heart yesterday when she said, "You know, Peg is still such a happy dog!" Because that's what it's all about. That's all that really matters. :o

molly muffin

02-06-2016, 09:09 AM

Happiness really is the most important thing. Plus she lives your mom too. Lol
Glad you can have those walks now. I'm sure that makes Peg super happy too.

SasAndYunah

02-06-2016, 10:46 AM

Ahhhh back to the neighbourhood meets and greets, that's what we wanted to hear :D Enjoy the time with your mother and your happy Peg...

Sas and Quincy :)

mytil

02-07-2016, 07:04 AM

I am glad she is doing better too!!!! To feel good enough for a meet and greet with friends is always a good sign of a happy pup. I am glad you are spending time with your Mom too.

T.

labblab

05-15-2016, 07:10 AM

Well, I am feeling very downhearted this morning and just need to talk, so of course I come to my family here. We have been doing well this spring, enjoying our little daily routines. Peg has been taking her short morning strolls in the neighborhood, and every afternoon gets to lay in the backyard, supervising ;), while Luna runs around. We had a perfect Mother's Day with my mom here, fawning over her grand dogs.

But this weekend, something has shifted and Peg cannot maintain her squat to relieve herself. She falls backwards on the ground every time she tries, so she is not wanting to go out. We've bought a belly harness with a handle, and we'll be working on trying to get her used to that today. I'm not exactly sure what has changed so dramatically, whether it's worsening pain or just worsening muscle weakness. From watching her, it seems to me that it may be more muscle weakness than anything else. But I am now noticing an audible click from her hind end when she walks, and that can't be a good thing. :o

I've got to get her in to the vet this week, anyway, for her regular blood work, so we will talk. If her lab work is OK, maybe we can increase her pain meds a bit. I'm afraid any PT like swimming is out because we cannot get her into the car anymore. At 80 pounds, she is too much for us to lift other than for essential trips.

She still seems like a happy girl in many ways. But I think we will have to stop trying to take the walks and it is rough for me this morning to see her falling down like this. She could not even get up without my help out in the yard. That is a first for us. She is also struggling to stand up in the house, too. I'm really hoping the harness will help, although right now she hates to even have it on. Fingers crossed that it will help today...

Budsters Mom

05-15-2016, 07:51 AM

Oh dear Marianne, I am here.:o

I am up with a migraine, that is now somewhat better. No complaints. I haven't had one in quite a while. Also, being Sunday, I don't have to be up in an hour for work.

Anyway, I am so sorry to hear that Peg is struggling. Of course you are worried. Yes, Peg is a big girl. It's all so very hard. Hard to watch and almost impossible to move her. :o I know that you are feeling sad, frustrated and helpless right now. I know because I have been there and revisit that place often.

Yes, you have come to the right place. We are here and understand oh too well. You are not alone.

Sending you tons of strength and healing energy to our sweet Peg. I truly hope that the sling helps Peg balance enough to potty herself and that her pain can easily be managed. It's all about comfort and quality of life as we both believe deep in our hearts.

Please keep us posted. I'll check back in a bit. It's still very early here. I'm going to try to sleep a bit before the monkey wakes ready to play. She's sooooo happy on the weekends when I'm home.

Kathy

labblab

05-15-2016, 08:08 AM

Thank you so much, Kathy. I saw you had posted and thought to myself, this is way too early for you to be up! I am very sorry about your migraine. I keep hoping they will go away for good.

I so appreciate your warm and understanding thoughts. I don't think I'll ever have another fur kid that I can't pick up all by myself, and maybe even set in my lap. I just feel so helpless with Peg. It is so hard watching her lose the ability to do the things that brought her so much joy. She still has her toys in the house, but she can no longer do most of the things that make life dogworthy for a retriever.

I think I just need to go and have a good cry, and then pull myself back up by the bootstraps and try to make the harness a fun training exercise. After all, there's nothing a Lab loves more than learning a new skill.

DoxieMama

05-15-2016, 08:16 AM

(((( Hugs Marianne ))))

Budsters Mom

05-15-2016, 08:27 AM

Sounds like a plan. A good cry can work miracles.;)

Peg is still with you. Please don't spend what precious time you have together wallowing. It is what it is. Just love on her while you still can. That's all she really wants. ;)

You can do it!!! I know you can.

Going to try to rest now. Migraines are much better. Much less frequent and don't last as long.

Joan2517

05-15-2016, 08:55 AM

Definitely have a good cry, Marianne...We had a lab mix that we adopted from North Shore Animal League and she developed a mass in her spleen and started having trouble getting around. She was a big girl too. It was so hard to watch and then try to get her up. The first time it happened I was stunned and she was stuck on the steps outside crying for me to help her. I finally managed, but never let her out again by herself, followed her around just in case. She got used to me shadowing her.

I also swore I'd never have another one too big to handle, but now I've got my Gabe, who is 80+lbs. There is so much more to hug with the big ones! He's only 8, but already showing some weakness in his back legs, and I'm 7 years older than when Andee was alive, so I'm dreading the day I'll have to try to pick him up...but I love him to pieces and will do whatever I have to.

I hope Peg feels better and the harness helps...

Squirt's Mom

05-15-2016, 09:13 AM

Crying is good. It helps cleanse the Soul and allows us to find our focus once again, even if for just a moment...and it is the accumulation of moments that count.

Your post brought back so many memories of going thru this with Squirt, how gut-wrenching it was to see her unable to get up on her feet or move so she could get where she wanted to be, her back legs scrabbling and uncooperative; the consuming fear of what this might mean for us and the frantic searches to find something, anything, that could help. Turns out it was an old sheet torn into long, wide strips so I could help hold her up to walk and lower her to do her business or sit and rest when she was tired of walking around. We did that for months and then the day came when she was able to rise on her own, walk under her own steam, and squat as needed once again.

Don't lose hope. Don't let the fear win. Fight for and with Peg for as long as she wants to fight....and I bet there is still plenty of fight left in her.

And cry whenever you need.

Hugs,
Leslie

addy

05-15-2016, 09:20 AM

Marianne, It is so hard to see our loved ones decline for any reason.
I can send you big hugs.

Our work dog, huge, South African Mastiff, well over 100 pounds, was struggling to get around. The owner of our company had him on NSAIDs, they stopped working. His brother is a pretty decent vet, put him on a very low dose of prednisone and the difference was amazing. We recently added tramadol. Our thoughts were to just try to give as much time as possible.

I hope the harness works out. Zoe did get used to hers and actually seemed grateful for the help. I'm hoping Peg will adjust too.

Please give her kisses for me.

molly muffin

05-15-2016, 12:36 PM

I'd have several good cries I think. Sometimes it takes more than one to let it all out.
It's just seeing them struggle that is so hard and not knowing what the best way is to help them.
I'm hoping pain med increase will help. :( It's hard when they are that heavy too, as you can't just pick them up, put them under your arm and carry on.
Could she have pulled something? Would she do the one leg hike instead of squat. Not sure how you show a dog to change pee positions.

I use the harness with molly to help her up steps and when she was trying to pee, just a week ago. I agree that like Zoe, molly seems grateful for the help, so maybe Peg will too.

Ramp up to the car maybe? I was at the Vet ER this week and saw a really really big dog, doing the ramp into a van. That dog had to be over a hundred pounds. whew.

We're here Marianne, every step of the way!

Renee

05-15-2016, 01:43 PM

Go ahead and have that good cry. It can really help to clear your head once you've worked out the emotional fear.

Having a big dog with mobility issues is so hard. I've watched friends struggle with this. It must be heartbreaking. One of my pugs, Ichiro, has mobility issues and I have been picking him up/ carrying/putting down for the last 2 years. He can walk, but his back legs are weak. Thankfully, he's only 20 pounds.

I have heard using the harness is very helpful. One thing you may want to look into is learning to express her bladder for her. Sometimes when it's hard for them to go, they avoid it, and that can lead to many other problems. I thought I would have to do this for Ichiro, but he accepted that he can no longer lift his leg to pee and eventually figured out a squat that works for him.

I'm so sorry this happened so suddenly. Hopefully some strong medications and limited movement will help her heal a bit. Possibly she pulled a muscle or strained a nerve?

judymaggie

05-15-2016, 01:49 PM

Marianne -- I am so sorry that Peg is having such a hard time. My first two dogs were big ones, one weighing 90 lbs. and the other 80 lbs. The first was blind and deaf in her later years and the latter who was a German Shepherd developed spinal degeneration. I can totally relate to trying to lift Peg up -- I struggled with this for quite a long time. I had an SUV and both dogs used to jump right up into the back. As Sharleen mentioned, I did get a ramp to use when it was necessary to transport them. Both dogs lived to be 15 and 14 -- we lived in the Caribbean so their age was very unusual for large dogs in that climate.

Please give Peg and yourself a big hug from us!

My sweet Ginger

05-15-2016, 01:57 PM

Oh Marianne, I'm so sorry. Sending prayers and many hugs your way. Give Peg extra kisses and hugs from me too.

Budsters Mom

05-15-2016, 01:58 PM

Checking in....... Well, how is it going? Is hubby around to help today?

labblab

05-15-2016, 02:19 PM

Gosh, you guys, I am overwhelmed with your kindness and support!!

OK, I've had my cry, and now we have our plan (Sharlene always tells us that a plan is very good, right????).

Yup, hubby is here and we've done a few trial runs with the harness. Peg is not crazy about it yet, but I hope she'll get used to it. At this point, she does not seem to need help with peeing, it's the pooping stance she can't maintain. She doesn't like us following her and holding on to the harness, and so far we've only gotten one little poop out of her before she startles and pulls away. But hopefully she'll figure out we're actually helping her. By this time of day, she'd normally have pooped a couple of times, so at some point, she'll surely need to go, regardless. :eek:

After watching her, hubby and I think it looks more like muscle weakness and loss of balance than pain. But we do already have tramadol on hand, if we want to try adding it in. Hubby has cancelled some clients on Friday so he can load her in the SUV and go to the vet with us. I want to hold off on adding the tramadol until I've seen how her kidney/liver values look on Friday. This will be her first chem panel since starting the daily Previcox, and I want to see how things look from taking that alone.

We do have a ramp, and we've tried multiple times to get her to use it to get into the back of the SUV (it doesn't work well with the car door). But she's afraid to use the ramp, and the incline is really steep. So we're just permanently using the ramp at the front door now, to get her over the steps in and out of the house. My brother is very, very handy, though, and we've commissioned him to try to figure out a "dog-loader" device that would help us. Who knows, maybe he can patent something and make us all rich in the process! ;)

So we'll keep practicing with the harness, and see what we find out on Friday. Our vet loves Peg to pieces, so I know he'll do anything he can to try to help us problem-solve.

Thank you guys, so so so much, for being here. I love our family.

molly muffin

05-15-2016, 02:30 PM

That's right a plan is a good thing. :) :) :)

Okay so a plan in place on multiple levels, see how her chem is, hubby helping with the vet on friday, and brother is going to design a doggie something or other and make you all rich.

sounds good to me :)

You could try adding in the tramadol just to see if it makes a difference in allowing the poop stance. It would give you and idea Maybe of what is going on so suddenly.

labblab

05-15-2016, 02:39 PM

Yep, if her chem panel looks OK on Friday, we'll definitely try adding the tramadol next weekend. Thanks, Sharlene!

Budsters Mom

05-15-2016, 03:36 PM

You are processing this new information so, so quickly. I would still be in the " OMG!!! what the heck do I do now?," phase.;)

So glad that daddy is around to help with his baby girl.:p

Here is an idea for your brother concerning the lifting problem. Bear in mind that I expect a cut in the profits.... Are you ready????

A remote control jet pack. You would strap it on and use the remote to gently lift and place Peg in the SUV. Problem solved. So glad I could help. Lol

Next ,I will be designing a parent/doggie robotic sitter and housekeeper, which will keep Rosie happy and entertained between chores.:D:D:D

labblab

05-15-2016, 04:41 PM

OMG, Kathy, I love it!!!!!!!!!!!! :) ;) :) ;) :)

Not having had any human kids, I can only guess at a parent's joy when kids figure out how to use the potty for the first time. But it can't be any better than this -- HOORAY my big little girl just pooped with me holding her up in her harness!! My work today is done!! Tomorrow I'll go and buy new rugs for the hardwood hallway to better keep her from slipping, but for today, my work is done.

I'm so relieved, and especially because I was dreading telling my mom that Peg has been falling down. My mom says that she and Peg are twins living parallel lives. They may end up sharing their tramadol for their hips, and I can tell my mom that now Peg has a new "walker," too.

I feel a lot better now than when the day began, and I thank you all so much!

SasAndYunah

05-15-2016, 05:40 PM

Ohhhh that precious Peg and her precious mom :) Glad to learn you've had your cry, your plans in place and that Peg pooped :D And the support of all those wonderful people here... :) And the absolute hilarious ideas of Kathy :D
But also I am so sorry that Peg is having these problems and I can understand how you must have felt when you first saw it... All we can do is make the best of what is and I know you will do just that. If there's anything I can do, just let me know,

Big hugs,

Saskia :)

Budsters Mom

05-15-2016, 08:51 PM

That is the point of my invention ideas, in case you didn't already figure that out.;)

I feel a lot better now than when the day began

labblab

05-16-2016, 07:50 AM

This morning has dawned less brightly. When I came downstairs, Peg collapsed and fell down a couple of times as we were heading to the door. She looks generally quite unsteady on her feet. This is new. Before, in the house, it was just that she sometimes had trouble standing up. She peed outside, but the harness bothered her again and she wanted to come straight back inside and get it off.

Wow, this is really hard watching her struggle, because otherwise she is "herself" -- bright eyes, wagging tail, hearty appetite.

I really don't think it is pain, because there is no yelping or flinching when we manipulate her legs and back. She just seems to be losing her balance and muscle strength. For that reason, I'm conflicted about giving her the tramadol right now because of its sedating effect on top of her phenobarb. I don't want to make her any less coordinated than she already is.

So we'll see how things develop through the week. I have a feeling her bloodwork is becoming much less of a priority. I'm reading back through everybody's kind words from yesterday, and focusing on giving my girl lots of hugs and kisses. And we'll just take things day by day and hope that maybe this is a temporary issue that will improve. I will let you all know how things go on Friday.

Edited to add: I'm just now noticing that her right rear leg is at an odd angle when she is standing, so maybe something has structurally changed or collapsed with that hip. That would expain her difficulty with walking and squatting. :(

My sweet Ginger

05-16-2016, 09:06 AM

Oh Marianne, I cried yesterday reading through your description of Peg's ordeal because that's what happened to Ginger for the last few months of her life. By then she didn't resist my aid probably due to her advanced dementia. Also by then wearing her diaper harness was a no big deal after close to three years which she hated wearing it in the beginning. She used to hide under the couch when she saw me holding the harness in my hand.
I think what I'm trying to say is that in time sweet Peg will get used to wearing her harness. She just need some time to get used to it. I also don't think her problem is related to pain but rather a loss of her hind leg muscles same as Ginger. So much so that she wore her 'Pawz' on her rear feet every waking moment (we also have hardwood floors) and they gave her so much traction and prevented her rear feet from splaying out all the way. I had to be very careful as not to comprise her blood flow around her ankles as their openings are quite tight.
I hope she regains her strength back as it will be so hard on you and Peg. Tho I'm so glad she is bright eyed, wagging her tail and hearty appetite. In the end my baby only had a good appetite and I was so grateful for that. Hang in there Marianne. Hugs, Song.

labblab

05-16-2016, 09:13 AM

Song, thank you so much for writing, especially because it means you had to revisit your own pain. It helps me so much just knowing that someone understands. It means a great deal to me to read your words.

I really, really appreciate it.

My sweet Ginger

05-16-2016, 09:32 AM

I don't know if it's me getting old or losing my precious ones but I cry all the time now. :o

Budsters Mom

05-16-2016, 02:56 PM

Sorry, No time to post right now, so I'll send hugs instead.
((((((((Hugs))))))

molly muffin

05-16-2016, 03:41 PM

Just a moment as I'm still at the office, but will they be checking her phenobarb levels on Friday also and can they do an xray or even ultrasound on that hip as it does sound like there has been some occurrence there.
Whatever it is, the good thing is that she is still a happy girl.
As my IMS told me last week, our job is to worry and their job is to be happy. Peg is still happy and you are worrying so I'm pretty sure that your household is operating according to normal doggie standards. :) :) (Mine operates the same way)

labblab

05-16-2016, 04:45 PM

Yep, she's scheduled for her 6-month phenobarb level and full chem panel and CBC. If we want to visualize things, I'm guessing an x-ray is the place to start since we have previous x-rays of her hips to compare against.

The thing is, right now I'm not sure how how much we really need to know since there is not much direct intervention that we would want to subject her to. As today has gone on, I feel like something has profoundly shifted for her. I am confident she is not experiencing frank pain, but she is definitely failing. She has a gigantic lipoma in her right armpit that has now sprouted a secondary nodule. It may even be an enlarged lymph gland. Given her situation, though, we won't do surgery on either her hip or the lipoma. I guess we could at least needle-biopsy the new lump.

Her phenobarb level has been remarkably consistent for the entire six years she's been taking the drug. We have never changed the dose even one time, and her results are always smack in the middle of therapeutic range. So I'll be surprised if that's the problem now, but you never know, and bloodwork is easy to do. But it will be really hard on her going in, though, given how she's acting today. Just really hard for her to stand and walk very far, even on carpet and grass. The slippery tile at the vet will be a nightmare, somebody will probably just have to carry her in and out. And I think even just the excitement/stress of the visit will take a toll.

I guess what I'm hoping is that maybe she'll plateau where she's at for at least a while, as long as she still seems to be pain-free. I dunno. I am trying to stay focused today on praising her for pretty much everything she does!

I may just go in and talk to our vet all by myself before Friday, and bounce thoughts off him. He knows Peg so well and has raised her with us from puppyhood. First, I guess we'll just see what tomorrow morning brings.

molly muffin

05-16-2016, 05:07 PM

I totally get that. What I was thinking was whether or not this is a pulled muscle and something that rest will help or is this the place that she is at now and going forward.
If if it something that limiting movement will help with for awhile, then that would be worth it. I wasn't really thinking of any kind of invasive procedures.

Renee

05-16-2016, 06:51 PM

I guess what I'm hoping is that maybe she'll plateau where she's at for at least a while, as long as she still seems to be pain-free. I dunno. I am trying to stay focused today on praising her for pretty much everything she does!

Ichiro did this. Something changed for him, seemingly overnight, and I spent some time in a panic. But, he ended up plateauing. He's actually gotten a tiny bit better. I think he's adjusted a bit better to the new normal and we've kept his activity more controlled. He's been about the same now for the past 18 months.

We've tried a variety of things, all with varying degrees of success, but no golden egg. It just is what it is.

Budsters Mom

05-16-2016, 10:58 PM

This is probably a stupid question, but it never stopped me before......

Have you tried Pawz to give Peg some traction, particularly on slippery floors? They really helped Buddy when his legs weren't strong enough anymore.

The slippery tile at the vet will be a nightmare

labblab

05-17-2016, 06:51 AM

There is no such thing as a stupid question! ;)

I did try Pawz a few months ago, but I was focused on her front paws at that time (trying to keep her from licking a cyst). I couldn't find a size that worked easily for her front paws -- they are unusually big, fat, and wide compared to her "ankles." But I definitely should try again to see if something would at least work with her back paws. I'll give it another try today!

Squirt's Mom

05-17-2016, 08:47 AM

Squirt would just lay down and refuse to even try with those things on! :D There are also those sticky pads that seemed to work for some folks...can't remember their name right now tho. Let me research a bit and see what I can find. Oh yeah! PuppyLove Paw Pads - http://www.puppylovepawpads.com/

My sweet Ginger

05-17-2016, 09:09 AM

I'm pretty sure her back paws will work better than the front paws as Ginger's front paws were noticeably bigger in size and thicker around ankles. I didn't bother with front paws as they seemed ok and also to give her a break as I thought 4paws seemed too much for her, just the rear ones and still it made a world of a difference! As I've mentioned make sure the openings are not too tight for her blood flow. I either stretched them vigorously for like 100 times before use or made a little cut to make the opening a little bigger. If I go with right ankle size then the boots were ridiculously too big so I kind of went with the boot size. She went through a few packs of them, including more than a few mistakes. :o
I hope Peg's paws will be a better fit. ;)

Budsters Mom

05-18-2016, 11:14 PM

Yo Marianne!!!!! What's happening? Is Peg still scheduled to see the vet on Friday?

Harley PoMMom

05-18-2016, 11:42 PM

Oh Marianne, I am just now seeing this and am so sorry sweet Peg is having some trouble. I wonder if she may have an ear infection that is making her unstable. Let us know how things go and I am sending comforting hugs to you both.

More hugs, Lori

labblab

05-19-2016, 08:29 AM

Oh Lori, I so wish I thought it was something like an ear infection. But pretty clearly it is something that has degenerated further with her hips. Hubby and I have both been watching her closely, of course, and her hind legs are definitely turning in at an odd angle now, and that seems to be what is causing her to collapse.

Current gameplan is that I'm going in by myself today to talk with our vet. After much soul-searching this week, hubby and I are not sure whether we want to subject Peg to the stress of the visit, blood draws, and x-rays. I keep asking myself, what would we do differently, no matter what we find out? I wouldn't stop the Previcox, regardless of her kidney/liver values. Her phenobarb has been constant for six years and she shows no evidence of phenobarb overdosing. We won't do surgery on either her hips or her lipoma. So I want to talk with the vet to get his take on things, and also to let him know "what's up" if we do decide to take Peg in tomorrow. That way he'll know in advance to try to make the testing as easy as possible on her.

Right now, we've all actually adapted pretty well to her new norm, and the harness is working out. So if she stays at this stage for now, I'll feel really grateful for having some more time together. But I just don't know that I want to intervene in any other way. At my 96-year-old mom's last cardiology visit, her doctor offered out yet a few more diagnostics that could be performed since we know she has a heart blockage. She looked him straight in the eye and said, "So if you save me from a heart attack, I'll be more likely to have time to break my hip and end up in pain in a hospital bed. If I have a choice, I'd pick the heart attack."

And that's kind of what I'm thinking with Peg. As long as she isn't in any obvious pain, I think I'm ready to just leave her alone and let nature take its course. But hubby and the vet need to be onboard that idea, too. So I'll talk to the vet today, and then hubby and I can decide overnight whether or not to take Peg on in tomorrow.

Thanks for caring, you guys, and I'll definitely keep you updated.

Budsters Mom

05-19-2016, 09:40 AM

Would
it be possible to take a video of Peg's movements, or lack of, to show the vet? It helps if they can actually see what you are talking about.

Joan2517

05-19-2016, 09:49 AM

It is so hard to know which way is the best way...sending many hugs and encouraging thoughts your way, Marianne....Peg has a wonderful mom.

judymaggie

05-19-2016, 11:13 AM

Marianne--thinking of you today as you try to sort out what is going on with Peg. I think the suggestion of trying to get a video to show the vet is an excellent one. Sending hugs!

Budsters Mom

05-19-2016, 03:44 PM

Well, what did the vet say ?????

labblab

05-19-2016, 04:23 PM

I'm back from having a good talk with our vet, and tonight hubby and I will discuss the pros and cons of taking Peg in tomorrow for further evaluation. Probably the vet's biggest concern right now is trying to judge the degree of pain that she may be experiencing, especially because Labs seem to be especially stoic. He says it can be hard even for vets to make that judgement in the absence of obvious flinching, whining, or injury. But we talked over things we can look for, and of course if we do take Peg in tomorrow, he can make an assessment himself. We have plenty of tramadol, so either way we can always add that into the mix if we wish.

I was really glad she was not with me today, because this vet practice does not make appointments and the waiting room was packed. It took nearly an hour and a half before I could be seen, and it would have been too hot today to wait in the car. So poor Peg would have been stressed with the tile floor and totally overamped by close confinement with a bunch of other dogs and cats. I hope it will be less busy if we do head in tomorrow, and I'll try to get some PAWZ beforehand. :o

I feel comforted from talking with him, though, because as I say, he has taken care of her for her entire life and he has been watching alongside us as these mobility issues have unfolded over the last 18 months. He has always had Labs, himself, so he understands their spirit and temperament. I will let you all know what we decide to do.

lulusmom

05-19-2016, 04:39 PM

Who wouldn't want to have a vet like yours when you are trying to be as objective as possible when quality of life becomes a very real and disturbing issue. He sounds terrific, Marianne, and I'm super glad that you have his experience and insight to help guide you. I am so very sorry that you are going through what I know is some serious internal turmoil. My heart goes out to you and I pray that Peg has many more good days ahead of her.

((((HUGE HUGS))))
G.

judymaggie

05-19-2016, 05:30 PM

Marianne -- I'm glad you have a good consultation with your vet. I know all about stoic dogs -- it is really tough to discern if something is bothering them. Had an idea you might add to your thinking cap -- as you know, I've been taking Abbie to a veterinary chiropractor. I am very impressed by how much she knows about anatomy, muscle structure, etc. Although I have a great vet, she definitely knows things that are outside of his realm. What about having a consult with a chiropractor? I bet there is one in your area.

addy

05-19-2016, 08:14 PM

Sending hugs and much love.

Kisses to sweet Peg.

molly muffin

05-19-2016, 11:36 PM

Your vet does sound wonderful. I'm really glad that he is a lab guy too, so he really gets Peg, plus having been her doctor all her life. I really think when the vet is as invested as possible in your dogs care that it makes a Huge difference.

I know that right now is very hard for you and hubby and Peg.

Big hugs!

labblab

05-20-2016, 07:46 AM

Thanks guys, for all your suggestions and well wishes. Hubby and I talked a lot last night, and we've decided not to take Peg in today. It doesn't necessarily mean "never," but not today. I think we're all pretty burned out right now, and some peaceful resting and quality family time may be the best medicine of all this weekend.

Just to keep life interesting, Luna's front end limp has returned (it has been an intermittent problem throughout her life). It had disappeared for a really long time, so I hoped it was gone for good. But it's been pretty persistent again for the past month, so we may need to launch into some more diagnostics with that. It's crazy, every time we're on the verge of an orthopedic consult, the limp disappears and there's nothing to see. Talked a bit with the vet about that yesterday, too. So either way, with Peg and/or Luna, I will be staying in pretty close touch with him. Never a dull moment!

Thanks again, so much, for all the support. It is such a help to me, and to Peg, too.

lulusmom

05-20-2016, 08:06 AM

I am going through the same front leg limp thing with my big baby, Juju. Vet couldn't find anything wrong and suspected she had a strain. After a bottle of Metacam, she was still limping but not as much. It seemed to be a lot worse when she got up after sleeping but was able to walk it off after a few minutes. Every time I think it's gone, she comes up lame again. It's a lot less frequent and I haven't seen her limp in a few weeks but I'm not so sure it's gone for good. Juju is 10 years old and accident prone so it's quite possible that she keeps reinjuring her leg or shoulder. She never comes when called at any speed but full throttle. I cringe when she bounds up the deck steps because she clears most of them in one leap but has done a face plant a few times. She's also very adept at pivoting around and smacking her head into a door, wall or whatever may be next to her. She and I have only been together for a short time and I am beginning to think that her quirkiness may have something to do with cumulative concussions. Do they make helmets for dogs? :D

DoxieMama

05-20-2016, 09:19 AM

What a wonderful vet you have, and it sounds like a fantastic relationship with him, as well. I'm glad he provided you some comfort.

Enjoy your family time.

And yes, they do make helmets for dogs. Some of them are used when they ride in motorcycle sidecars. Here's one on Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Helmet-Dogs-Cats-Small-Pets/dp/B00EA8HIIK) :D

labblab

05-20-2016, 09:33 AM

Glynda, that is SOOOO much the same scenario as with us (except for the head-knocking! ;)). That's exactly our gameplan, too -- to try a course of Previcox with Luna, too, since I have plenty on hand (I think I need to invest in the manufacturer...:rolleyes:). If that eliminates the problem, then we'd guess it's an inflammatory issue. If it doesn't, we march onward with diagnostics. But if past experience is a guide, just as soon as we opt for a new set of x-rays to put on disk to carry to the orthopedist, the limp will disappear again. Not that I'm not happy for it to be gone at any point in time -- but it sure is puzzling. :confused:

Budsters Mom

05-20-2016, 12:55 PM

Hey Glynda, if you actually get a crash helmet for Juju, take a video and post it for all if us to enjoy. I am thinking to put it on, then call her a few minutes later, while videotaping. That's one I'd watch 100 times in a row.;):D

Sorry about hijacking your thread Marianne. I'd like to say that I won't do it again, but I'm sure I will. ;)

lulusmom

05-20-2016, 03:04 PM

I can't keep a bow in Juju's top knot for more than a few hours. She is relentless in her efforts to get it out. She will rub your legs with the top of her head until you bleed or she walks the length of the bed 100 times, trying to rub it off on the bed skirt. I can't imagine what she would do if I put a helmet on her.

Juju with fresh bow
883

Budsters Mom

05-20-2016, 03:48 PM

She's beautiful Glynda!:p

I am disappointed about the helmet. LOL

Budsters Mom

05-20-2016, 03:57 PM

Marianne,

Peg is in the best hands ever and knows that she's truly loved. That's all that really matters.

I hope Luna's limp resolves itself quickly (once again). Maybe she thinks that Peg is getting too much attention? ;)

labblab

05-20-2016, 04:06 PM

Omigosh, Glynda, I love the bow!!! :) :) :)

And you girls never need to apologize for hijacking my thread. Cheerful distraction is often a good thing for me, since (as you already know :rolleyes:) I tend to obsess just a bit over the worrisome stuff...

SasAndYunah

05-23-2016, 02:36 PM

How is Peg doing...? :) And Luna and her limp? And their mom? :)

labblab

05-24-2016, 07:48 AM

Sas, thanks so much for checking in on us. We are all enjoying a bit of calm this week. Peg has gotten used to wearing the harness when she goes outside, and I've gotten a bit more adept at using it to help her (who says you can't teach an old dog -- ME!-- new tricks..;)). She has days when she feels more active and days when she doesn't. But right now, we are holding our own, and she even wanted to head down the street again yesterday for a little walk. :)

I've just now started the Previcox with Luna. I didn't want to start it over the weekend while the vet's office is closed, just in case she were to have a bad reaction. So we'll give it about a week and see whether or not that makes any difference for her.

SasAndYunah

05-24-2016, 01:51 PM

Calm is good :D Sounds like all of you are adjusting to this new phase in life...wich sometimes is all you can do. You girls are doing really well...impressive :)

Hugs,

Sas :)

addy

05-27-2016, 07:17 AM

I was thinking of you this week as our work dog has been having a harder time with mobility issues. Our work environment has so many slippery surfaces, it is hard for our big boy.

I send my love to you and the girls. I guess we have to take it one day at a time.

Budsters Mom

06-01-2016, 12:56 AM

Well, how's it going????:confused: Just checking on you girls.;)

labblab

06-01-2016, 02:41 PM

Thanks girls, for checking on us. We spent a very nice holiday weekend of family time, just hanging out and enjoying our time together. Peg has seemed to plateau for right now at this stage, and we are managing well now that we've got the harness figured out. She seems to get frustrated at times (or maybe it's surprised) when she slides or trips and collapses. But for the most part, she remains a happy girl with a wagging tail. We are very grateful to have this time!

Luna's lameness has not improved after the week of Previcox. So I'll be taking her in before long for another set of x-rays and some more conversation. It really is the weirdest thing -- she runs and jumps with ease, but limps a little when she walks and limps significantly when she trots. So we'll see.

I guess I can sympathize with both girls, though -- out of the blue today, my ankle is killing me and I am limping myself. Didn't do a thing that I can figure out. Just stepped inside the door from being in the yard and YIKES. So it's a couple of Motrin for me and we all three are sacked out at the moment. Getting old sucks, no two ways about it!!

molly muffin

06-01-2016, 09:04 PM

Well the good thing is you can all be immobilized together. :) :)

Drat on Luna not improving though. Sounds like a joint doesn't it with the walk and trot part being the worse.

Glad to hear that Peg has stabilized at this stage and not gotten worse. That is very good news indeed!!!

Now all three of you take care of yourselves! I assume hubby has taken on the cabana boy duties and is bringing you fresh, frothy, fruity drinks. :) :) hehehee

Budsters Mom

06-01-2016, 10:09 PM

Could Luna have something stuck in her paw? Possibly a pine needle, bee stinger, etc. Check her paw pads closely and wash them out really well. You just never know. ;)

DoxieMama

06-02-2016, 08:21 AM

Just an observation: our first dog Jupiter had difficulties getting into standing position, or walking... but he could run after squirrels just fine. I think they just "forget" that something hurts when they're excited. Or it's not so bad to keep them from moving, and maybe a little extra cortisol makes it feel good for the time. (Jupiter didn't have Cushing's.) His reasons for limping were different though.

Sorry to hear you've injured yourself! One of my co-workers turned in her swivel chair at work and either sprained her knee very badly... or tore a ligament!! :eek::eek: Sometimes it doesn't take much.

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Allison

06-10-2016, 11:24 AM

Sorry to hear about Peg's situation. Back when we had Gizmo, he suffered a back injury and couldn't walk. We had to use a cloth tied underneath him to help him to do his business. After he got treated, he bounced back to his old self for a year. Sadly, with him, he lost function in his back legs after that time and never did really recover. It's such a scary situation.

On the more positive side, the same thing happened to one of my childhood dogs, but he bounced back to normal after rest and lived for many more happy years. I'm glad to hear that at the moment Peg seems to have stabilized.

Now you and Luna are injured too?! Hang in there. May all of you soon have better health.

labblab

06-11-2016, 07:21 PM

Thanks so much for stopping by, guys. Just wanted to add a very quick update because I'm afraid I'm scaring everybody unduly by what I've posted on Trish's thread. Peg is not having an immediate crisis, but she is continuing to get unsteadier and unsteadier. So our "plateau" keeps drifting downward a bit each week now. :o

For the time being, we think she remains happy, though, and we are so grateful to be able to give her as many love-filled days as we can. So that's where we're at right at this moment.

Trish

06-11-2016, 07:51 PM

Can't do better than the love-filled days. It's also hard adjusting to "new normals"... I liked the old normal thanks very much.

But if QOL still good and your managing I hope for many more good days weeks months :) x

addy

06-11-2016, 09:06 PM

Loved filled days are the best days and new normals take some getting used to.

I hope Luna is fine.

Budsters Mom

06-12-2016, 03:35 PM

Watching them decline and adjusting to, "new normals" suck, but it's so much better than not having them with us at all.;)

I got very little sleep the last few months with Buddy. He was restless and had difficulty settling to sleep at night. I would happily do it again, if I could right now.

Relieved to hear that Peg is still a happy girl through it all. To feel loved and give love, is all they really want or need and Peg is indeed loved.

I hope Luna's limp has resolved by now:confused:

Kathy

labblab

06-14-2016, 06:27 AM

What a hard week this has been for our family. Tearfully this morning, I must now share my sad news, too. After adding my last note on Saturday, things went very bad for our girl over the weekend. On Sunday, she was having much more trouble staying upright and her hips were swiveling very oddly. By Sunday evening her hind paws were knuckling. When we awoke yesterday she could no longer walk on her own power. Her whole rear end just seemed to have broken down. Mind you, through all of this, not one whimper from our brave girl.

We took her in to our beloved vet who repeated x-rays and physically examined her. He said that not only had the hip dysplasia worsened but she had spinal issues and the cruciate ligaments in both her hind legs seemed quite compromised. He said that is a common result of severe dysplasia and could account for the new swiveling and buckling. Nothing was fixable without surgery and it had to be causing her such pain. So we all agreed it was time and he joined us in easing her onward with pats and kisses of his own. Such a terribly hard decision to make when her spirit was still so bright. But we would rather she left this world still a proud and happy dog. And that she was.

So very hard to come back home without her. I have been dreading this day on behalf of Luna, too. She has never known life without her big sister and adored her. But so far we are relieved that Luna seems to be just going about her own daily routine. She sniffed our hands and clothes quite a bit when we first returned home from the vet. But she has not been searching for Peg, which is what I dreaded the most. This morning she still seems OK. Of course, though, I am not. Peg came to heal our broken hearts when Barkis died, but now are hearts are broken again. We would always say, "Everybody loves Peg." And everybody did. She was the sweetest, friendliest dog in the world. We never saw her behaving in an ill way towards any person or other dog. She was a treasure and a delight and I will miss her forever.

Marianne

Trish

06-14-2016, 06:38 AM

OMG Marianne, poor you. This week just truly sucks. I just finished my cup of tea and was about to turn out the lights, but going to get another cuppa and let this sink in for a bit. You are so brave, helping that sweet girl right to the end.... Massive big hugs to you and hubby and Luna too xxxxxxxxxx Will be here longer if you need to talk xxxx OK Rainbow Bridge you must be full up... no more!

labblab

06-14-2016, 06:57 AM

Trish thank you so much. I have been awake since having a coughing fit around 4:00 (recovering from a respiratory virus). I'm down on the couch now with Luna snoozing beside me. Bless her heart, thank goodness she is not more needy now because I am pretty needy myself.

What with all that had gone wrong, we could not believe how cheery Peg remained up through the end. Even yesterday morning when she couldn't stand up she still wanted her breakfast bowl brought to her and one of dad's socks to play with. That's a Lab for you, though. Always a smile and a wagging tail. Our vet's last Lab came from the same breeder and really resembled Peg so much. The end was the same for her, too -- the body failing before the mind. So he knew exactly how we were feeling and I think that's why he made such a complete exam yesterday, so as to reassure all three of us that we really had no choice.

Peg was a big girl in many more ways than one. Big bark, big heart, giant spirit. I know there will be a hundred ways I will miss her today, just like you are missing Flynny. Our two hearts may be separated by miles, but I know they are aching in just the same way.

molly muffin

06-14-2016, 06:59 AM

Marianne this is so sad. I'm sorry. Knowing it is time doesn't make it any easier to have to say good bye. Poor dear Peg who tried so hard and was a love even as her body was failing her.
She will be off playing with her buddies now, running like the wind and never having her legs fail her. Sending love and hugs your way

addy

06-14-2016, 07:13 AM

Marianne, I can't even find the right words, I am so sad for you and I am so sorry. I had so hoped Peg would maybe plateau for awhile, such a sweet girl.

I always tried to check in on her thread . Peg is special to me.

Does you mom know? I know you worried about that.

Trish

06-14-2016, 07:17 AM

They sure are aching in tandem right now. Well, I think that about Flynn, he sure knew what was going around him. He hated it, hated showing he was crook and kept up the image of him being OK... poor dogs do that don't they so the pack won't leave them behind. I'm OK, just have to drink two gallons, not eat, feel nauseous, wobble when I walk. Bless them. Such a hard decision to make when they still have their wits about them, but by crikey it is the right one. Even when it makes us feel so bad. For all the joy and love our fur babies give us, we owe it to them to do right and not be selfish, at least we can say we have done that. Not that it makes that heartache go away :( I am glad you had a clear path that it was not going to get better and hope that eases your mind about making the decision. xxx

labblab

06-14-2016, 07:20 AM

Thank you all so much. I will come back later and write more, but I need to head off with Luna for a neighborhood stroll before the sun comes up and it gets even hotter. Luna has not gotten much attention these last few weeks, and now it's time for her to be in the spotlight again. So off we go. :o

addy

06-14-2016, 07:22 AM

Oh Trish, you are so right about that. Exactly the words I could not find to write.

I have to go to work, Marianne, but will check in on you at lunch.

Trish

06-14-2016, 07:23 AM

I hope Peg and Flynny paint the most beautiful sunrise for you and Luna to let us know they are OK xxxxx

Joan2517

06-14-2016, 08:07 AM

Dear Marianne,

I am heartbroken for you this morning. I saw this post at the top of the list, but saved it for last because I really hoped it wouldn't be such sad news. You were such a comfort to me throughout my short time here with Lena and I wish there was some way I could help you now.

We love them so much, and do everything possible, but they are never here long enough...and because of that, because we love them so much, we do it over and over again. It seems there is always another furbaby who needs us as much as we need them.

I still miss Lena every day and there will never be another dog like her, but as an animal lover I will open my heart up again, this time to Sibbie, and of course my boys and our chihuahua have a placeholder in my heart as well.

Luna needs you now, just like my guys needed me, and she will bring you comfort...

Such a sad week for all of us with so many crossing over...but how wonderful to see the responses from so many who care for us and our babies...we are all blessed.

Love,
Joan

Tina

06-14-2016, 08:16 AM

Oh, my dearest Marianne,
I came to post a few quick thoughts this morning, and I am absolutely heartbroken to read this news. I am unable to find the words I want to say right now, just shattered over your beautiful Peg. Know that my thoughts and heart are with you, your hubby and sweet Luna today. I will check in as I am able later. What a terribly difficult and sad week for our family. I am so so sorry Marianne. Sending all my love and huge hugs. xo

labblab

06-14-2016, 08:43 AM

Luna and I are back home and what a comfort to find all your replies awaiting us! This is why I am still here, almost twelve years without a Cushpup. Because of our family here. And yes, Trish, the sunrise was lovely and how sweet to think that our kids may have engineered it.

Addy, we did call my mom as soon as we got home. It was the hardest call to make, and she started crying immediately. I felt awful because at first she said how much she wished she could have said goodbye to Peg. I did think about that briefly yesterday morning, but could not figure a way to make that work. But then my mom settled down a bit and said that perhaps it was best that her final memory of Peg is from our lovely Mother's Day celebration. That was the weekend before things got worse for Peg and my mom had such a nice day with the dogs. I know my mom's heart is broken, though, and it does scare me because each one of these losses leaves my mom feeling as though there is less reason for her to stick around herself. So we'll see if we can't coax her back over again this weekend for another visit. Hubby will need some bucking up, anyway, what with it being Father's Day and it might help if we're just all together.

My other big regret is a silly one but it is nagging me this morning. From the moment we saw her as a puppy, Peg always had the most enormous front paws. We always called them black bear paws. I've always talked about wanting to make a plaster cast of her paws, and especially so ever since her health scares started. I've passed the crafts store a dozen times during the past month, thinking that I need to stop and get my plaster. But then I'd feel as though I would be jinxing things and just drive on. "I'll have time to do that later on if things turn really bad." Well they did turn bad but I had no plaster and now I have no casts and all I can do is picture her paws and cry.

So here's my lesson to pass on to my family! If there is something you want to do to honor or pamper a loved one, do it today. Do not wait. Do not assume there will be time tomorrow. Do it now. And as for me, I will just have to settle now for my imaginary paw prints as I remember my beautiful big girl. Here are those paws...

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=280&pictureid=8326

Budsters Mom

06-14-2016, 09:16 AM

No time now. I just woke and must get my butt in gear for work.. Feeling so much sorrow for all our babies who have moved on. :o

Know that I will be with you throughout the days and weeks ahead. Will be back...

So, so, sorry.:o:(

judymaggie

06-14-2016, 09:24 AM

Marianne--Peg was so gorgeous and those big paws added to her beauty. My heart is with you today. I am glad that Luna is there to help you through this difficult time. I bet she will soak up all your hugs. Please take care of yourself!

mommyslittlegirl

06-14-2016, 11:27 AM

Marianne, I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet Peg. My heart hurts so much for you. Dawn

Harley PoMMom

06-14-2016, 11:41 AM

Oh Marianne, I am so sorry for your loss. Peg sure is a special sweet girl and my heart goes out to you and your family at this most painful time.

The vet I take my furbabies to does the plaster paw cast automatically so maybe your vet does too, I realize how difficult this may be but maybe call them and see.

Sending tons of loving and consoling hugs your way.

Love and more hugs, Lori

Renee

06-14-2016, 03:51 PM

So sorry Marianne to read about Peg. It seems like it happened so fast. :(

labblab

06-14-2016, 04:15 PM

Thank you again, each and every one of you. Joan and Lori, thank you for the suggestions about the paw prints. But our yard has been too dry to have left any prints behind and unfortunately our vet does not make them. Truly, what I really wanted, anyway, was for Peg and me to make the prints together on a sunny morning. She would let me do anything with her paws, and it would have been a little game for us to play and for me to always remember. Ah well. :o

I keep expecting to see Peg all the time, and it is so sad to have only emptiness where she always settled herself. What I've learned in this first 24 hours was what a huge presence she had in our house at all times! She was the one to demand meals and walks, to announce a person was passing on the sidewalk, or that dad's car had just pulled into the garage. Even though she was always sweet and kind with Luna, Peg was definitely always the ringleader and Luna was the sidekick. They would so often lay in a line -- the doggie train we called it -- and Peg was always the engine and Luna was always the caboose.

The astonishing discovery I've made today is how little I really "know" Luna, all on her own. So not only am I missing Peg, but I'm missing the Peg-n-Luna combo, too -- the way they were always a team. So today is not only the end of one chapter but it is the beginning of another. I can see I have a lot to learn about my littlest daughter, and I guess it's about time, after all. But still an unexpected surprise, and perhaps only the first of many.