Meesh, 9.5 y/o Japanese Chin - Meesh has passed

[Meesh/Barney]

Cushings started about November of 2011, withe the thirst and weight gain from 16 lbs to 20 lbs. Meesh is a black and white Japanese Chin (a rescue) 9 year and 5 months old. Her high blood pressure has affected her vision. We are givin blood pressure medication and eye drops for her eyes ( whites ahd turned red).
Trying to give her Ocu-Glo for her eyes to slow down loss of vision.
I live in New York.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed and welcome to you and Meesh! :)

What a cute name and I just bet it goes with a cute baby, too! :)

Can you tell us more about Meesh? What prompted the Cushing's suspicion? If you can post the actual test results that she has had that will help us give more meaningful feedback. We LOVE details so the more you can tell us about her the better. ;)

Do any of her eye drops contain steriods of any kind? Many of them do and these meds can cause a form of Cushing's called Iatrogenic, which is treated by slowly weaning the pup off the steriod - if possible. So check into that possibility.

Is Meesh on any treatment for the Cushing's so far? If so, which drug, how much and how often does she take it?

I am so glad you found us and look forward to learning more about the both of you as time passes. You and Meesh are no longer alone on this journey. We will be here with you every step of the way.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

I have found the most wonderful people on this site. I rescued Meesh and her sister Munch. Meesh was about 2 lbs and dying. We (my wife) and I put Meesh in a hospital and after weeks of round the clock care she was well. When Munch was a year old we had her spayed and the Vet killed her. Meesh became my companion, everyday I put her in my arms and held close to my heart. She is the aweetest girl. Cushing: Meesh started to eat and drink and her weight was going up. Went to a local vet (foreign), he had her on antibiotics for a urinary infection, nothing about Cushings. He did have a Specialist visit and they did a scan to show the head. We then went to our original Vet and Vet Hospital where Cushings was diagnosed in the Pituatary.
The Vet started her on Malatonin, 3gms a day. Later her eye whites were red and the eye medication was prescribed. Meesh is on this every other day now. The high blood was finally recognized but not after damage to her eyes which will get worse. We are giving her Ocu-Glo to slow the the vision loss.
Meesh sleeps alot with the Malatonin and coughs and chokes often.
Meesh lost her sight in that she needs lots of light or else she bumps into objects.
Her sickeness has wiped me out. I love this girl with all my heart.
I am a Korean War Veteran, the enemy 1951-52 Offensive
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

My dad was also a Korean War Vet; he came home in 1954, the same year I was born. He shared some of his stories with me, including my favorite about a young boy who worked for his camp to earn food, clothing and chocolate for his family. The boy was only 8 years old and worked from sun-up til sun-down. My dad kept in touch with him, "Henry" they called him, for the rest of his life and would show me pictures of Henry's family and home through the years.

It doesn't look as if the Ocu-Glo has any steroid in it so that's good. I am the proud mom of two blind babies. Trinket lost her eyeballs to glaucoma and Brick is blind from Hydrocephalus but still has his eyes unfortunately (they are nothing but a source for injury and disease now). But don't tell them, ok? They don't know they are blind! :D It really is amazing to watch them navigate their dark worlds and if you don't know they can't see, you'd not know. Trink has sonar like a bat! :p

The melatonin can help lower cortisol but not much. If Meesh's cortisol level is fairly high then either Trilostane (Vetoryl) or Mitotane (Lysodren) are the preferred treatments. Melatonin and lignans are used to treat a form called Atypical in which the cortisol is normal but the intermediate, or sex, hormones are elevated. This is the form my Squirt has but she is also on a maintenance dose of Lyso now and doing very well, I'm glad to say.

All the testing and meds can get overwhelming for sure but we are here to help any way we can. Meesh is a lucky girl to have you on her side!

I am heart-broken to hear about Munch. :( What a tragedy you had to face. I am so sorry. I am quite sure, tho, that she left this old world on the wings of your love, knowing she was truly cared for. What a gift you gave her, one I know she remains grateful for to this day.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mytil]

Hi Ed,

Glad to see a thread about little Meesh. She is one lucky little girl to have found you two. I am so very sorry about her sister Munch. I know Munch is watching over all of you and most probably directed you here :)

When you can, post any test results you have had done for Cushing's. If you do not have them contact the vet to make copies for you. That way we can all see the numbers. Oh, and did your vet perform an abdominal ultrasound to get a good look at the adrenal glands?

Does your vet have much experience with treating Cushing's? I am wondering out loud, why did he start her on Melatonin - could it be her high blood pressure? hmmm.

Sorry for all the questions. I know others will be around very shortly.
All my best
Terry

[Meesh/Barney]

I will send Meesh's medical data as soon as I can get it out of a PDF file. Hhmmm??
Ed

[mytil]

Ed, go ahead and attach the pdf file to the gmail account and we can pop it in.

Terry

[Meesh/Barney]

I have more medical data about Meesh. Thought I would post this first
This was dated Jan. 7, 2012. Can someone explain it to me?


Zoasis - Coritsol Serial 2 (ACTH)
01/07/2012 06:55 AM
Accession Result ID
Coritsol Serial 2 (ACTH)
Time 1
Time 2
Cortisol Sample 1
Cortisol Sample 2
Pre
Post
12.1HIGH
21.5
1.0-5.0 mg/dL
mg/dL
NYAB41447429
HYPERADRENOCORTICISM (HAC): Post ACTH results greater than 20 ug/dL(dog) and greater than 15
ug/dL (cat) are consistent with HAC. NOTE: ACTH results should always be interpreted in light of
clinicalsigns. False positive results may occur with stress or non-adrenalillness. In addition, exogenous
steroids may be measured by the assayand result in falsely elevated cortisol levels. Because of
widevariability, resting (basal) cortisol should not be used to rule-outor diagnose HAC. IATROGENIC
HYPERADRENOCORTICISM: Resting cortisol is usually between1-5 ug/dL with little to no increase in the
post-ACTH cortisol level. HYPOADRENOCORTICISM (HOC): Resting cortisol is usually subnormal(less
than 1 ug/dL) or low normal with no increase after ACTH. POST-LYSODREN: Pre & post cortisol levels
after Lysodren loading orwhile on maintenance Lysodren should be between 1-5 ug/dL. POST-
TRILOSTANE: Pre & post cortisol levels between 1.5-9.1 ug/dLindicate optimal control

[mytil]

Hi Ed,

I am reading this as the results of the diagnostic ACTH test: pre = 12.1 and the post =21.5. From the results it does show consistent with Cushing's. The along with the increased thirst and appetite also points towards Cushing's.

But I would like to point out that there really should be additional testing to confirm a Cushing's diagnosis. Has a LDDS test been performed and possibly an abdominal ultrasound (to get a visual of the adrenal glands)?

The bottom text just explains what results mean and the different meds and the results that should be achieved while giving the meds (the optimal cortisol levels that means the meds are doing their job in keeping the cortisol levels in check).

Was Meesh on Melatonin when the test was performed or any other meds beside the eye cream?

Here is a great link that describes more of the testing - http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

Keep us posted
Terry

[frijole]

Ed, Terry is right about considering additional testing to confirm cushings (assuming the acth test is all that has been done)

I had a dog that had high blood pressure, a corneal ulcer that would not heal and she was originally diagnosed with cushings. AFter trying to treat for cushings unsuccessfully and many more tests I finally went to an internal med specialist (I had to drive 5 hrs each way to a different state). There they did an ultrsound and determined it was a pheochromocytoma. (adrenal tumor that emits adrenaline thus causing the intermittent high blood pressure, eye strain).

I'm just sharing my experience in the event it could help Meesh. Does Meesh have a rounded belly? Kim

[Meesh/Barney]

Meesh Medications
Terry- Meesh went on Melatonin after the test abobe on Jan 7, 2012
Will post more details.
Ed

EYE

Neo/poly/Dex Ophth Drops
One drop Right eye, One drop Left eye every other morning long term
Ocu-GLO RxTM, Serenin VetTM, Eye-SEATM, and Imuno-2865TM

BLOOD PRESSURE
Benazepril HCL 5mg tabs give 1/2 tablet by mouth TWICE daily plus .25 mg
Amlodipine 2.5 mg tabs Twice daily 14 + 10 Tablets long term

Melatonon - 3mg per day

[Meesh/Barney]

Terry
Was Meesh on Melatonin when the test was performed or any other meds beside the eye cream?
Reply: No, Was started after the Jan. 7, 2012 results I posted.

Does your vet have much experience with treating Cushing's?
Reply: yes, my vet is a wonderful woman and belongs to a very good hospital with resources.
The Vet wanted to start Meesh on the simplest medication first.
The blood pressure was only determined later. Meesh was a hot blood pressure reactor at the Vet hospital. With the Cushings blood pressure became more than just a Vet visit thing.


Kim
Meesh has a rounded belly

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Neo/poly/Dex Ophth Drops - this right here could be the culprit for the signs you are seeing. It contains Dexamethasone, 0.1%, which is a steroid. This could cause the Iatrogenic form of Cushing's I mentioned earlier.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed and a belated welcome to you and Meesh

I'm sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but I'm sure glad you found us. Your love for your precious Meesh is evident and I hope we can help you out in getting to the root of her problems. I have lots of questions and will try not to confuse you too much. Cushing's is confusing anyway and I have a habit of confusing things even more so I'll try my best to make sense. :D I've listed my questions and reasons for them below:

1. Meesh's acth stimulation tests are borderline for cushing's so it would help greatly if you can get your hands on any prescreening blood chemistry any urine analysis and post the abnormal results here. We look for the usual abnormal values on bloodwork, such as elevated liver enzyme ALKP, ALT, cholesterol, triglycerides, slight increase in blood glucose. Common urine abnormalities are low specific gravity, plus a good number of dogs with cushing's have a urinary tract infection at diagnosis. If Meesh's urine is extremely dilute, the number of white blood cells usually present with infection are not detectable on a normal urine test so dogs suspected of having cushing's should have a urine culture and sediment done.

2. You mentioned that you had a scan done Meesh's head. Can you remember if the vet mentioned seeing an abnormal growth on the pituitary gland? Most dogs with cushing's have a little lesion (microtumor) on the pituitary gland and it is this tumor that causes all the problems. If a cat scan was done, and a tumor was visualized, that is some pretty solid evidence that Meesh has pituitary dependent cushing's.

3. Melatonin is a treatment that is prescribed for dogs with atypical cushing's. Dogs with typical cushing's have hyper elevations of cortisol and any number of the other adrenal hormones. Dogs with atypical have normal cortisol but other adrenal hormones are elevated, causing the same physical symptoms as well as the blood and urine abnormalities we see in typical cushings.

Melatonin's efficacy is iffy at best with atypical cushing's and it is extremely doubtful that it will do anything to reduce cortisol in a dog with typical cushing's. Having said that, I am still glad your vet prescribed melatonin if the acth stimulation test was the only diagnostic test done.

4. With respect to the vision problems, has Meesh lost vision over time or did it come on suddenly? Did Meesh see a board certified opthamologist or did your vet make the diagnosis? What was the diagnosis? With hypertension, the little blood veins/arteries are too small to handle the increased flow of blood and unfortunately, the retina can be very vulnerable to this. Was Meesh diagnosed with retinal detachment due to hypertension?

If Meesh's vision problems are 100% attributable to high blood pressure, I'm hoping the blood pressure meds will prevent any further damage. Has subsequent blood pressure checks shown improvements?

I see that you are applying triple antibiotic with dexamethasone eye drops. These are usually prescribed when there is a bacterial infection . Did Meesh have eye ulcerations?

5. With respect to the coughing and choking, this can be caused by cushing's, especially if the dog is overweight. High cortisol interferes with all kinds of metabolic functions, including fat and muscle proteins. Fat redeposition to the thoracic area, combined with the muscle wasting and enlarged liver creating pressure on the esophagus, it's more difficult for the dog to breath so they pant, cough and gag. In my experience, the coughing and gagging are a lot more pronounced in dogs with advanced heart problems and collapsing trachea.

Japanese Chins are a short snouted breed (brachycephalic) and these breeds tend to be prone to respiratory/breathing issues to begin with so any number of contributing factors, including cushing's, can exacerbate the coughing, wheezing and gagging. The Chin is also genetically predisposed to heart problems and collapsed trachea so I'm wondering if your vet has ruled these conditions out? I have a Chin mix (Jojo) with cushing's so I've done a bit of research on the breed.

Okay, I think I've written a book and grilled you enough so will stop here for now. :) Before I go though, I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to our country. You are a true hero in my eyes, not just for your great contribution in serving our country but for your amazing love and dedication to your precious Meesh and your beloved Munch, may she rest in peace.

Glynda

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Glynda,
Thank you for the warm welcome.
Meesh has high Cholestrol. Meesh had an ultrasound of her stomach, she was then treated for urinary tract infection. The first local Vet we tried prescribed 2 weeks of one antibiotic, then 4 weeks of another antibiotic, then a third antibiotic. This is when we decided to go back to the Veternary Hospital that was far better equipped. Our Vet at the hospital we had for several years told us to forget the 3rd antibiotic. Our hospital Vet did the one hour ACTH test.
Meesh was tested by the hospitals eye doctor and found the high blood pressure had affected eye blood vessels and her retina was slightly moved(?).
BEGINNING
This is the report of 11/11/2011, by the local Vet:
Superchem:
Total Protein 7.8 (High) Ref. Range 5.0-7.4 Unit-g/dL
Albumin 4.5 (High) Ref. Range 2.7-4.4 Unit-g/dL
Alk Phosphatase 175 (High) Ref. Range 5-131 Unit-U/L
Calcium 11.9 (High) Ref. Range 8.9-11,4 Unit-mg/dL
Chloride 101 (Low) Ref. Range 102-120 Unit-mEq/L
Cholesterol 397 (High) Ref, Range 92-324 Unit-mg/dl

Urinalysis:
Protein 1+ (High) Ref. Range Neg
Verified by SSA test

Ova And Parasites With Centrifugatio
Unrinalysis
Protein 2+ (High) Ref. Range Neg
Blood 1+ (High) Ref. Range Neg
RBC 4-10 (High) Ref. Range 0-3 Units HPF

Meesh and an undisclosed something in the Pituatary Gland.

[Meesh/Barney]

You asked if Meesh had a pot belly. Well she does, a 4lb pot belly and she weighs originally 16 lbs. I am very concerned about this weight because for one it is pulling down her spine. I bought Epigen dog food from Wysong with hopes it would elp reduce her weight but it doesn't agree with Meesh. I keep wondering if there is a way to reduce her weight safely??

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Barney,

Good to hear from you and Meesh! :)

Just as in us humans, lowering fats and carbs plus increasing exercise will help cut the weight. With some of our cush babies, exercise is limited, tho, due to arthritic or muscle issues. So, that often leaves diet to work on. One of the biggest ways we encourage weight gain in our babies is via treats. Commercial treats are mainly fats and carbs and our babies simply LOVE them; we love our babies and find it so hard to deny these precious, begging faces. :p So, instead of those lovely Milk Bones or Beggin' Strips, offer carrots, apples, fresh or frozen green beans, bananas, oranges - just about any fresh or frozen veggie or fruit Meesh will eat would help (no canned products as onions are often added). I'm sure you already know that onions, raisins, grapes, and some avocados can be toxic. If you would like a list of toxic foods, I'll be happy to find one and share.

Another trick is that the amount listed on most commercial feed bags often is simply too much for most of our babies...the manufacturers do want us to buy lots after all. ;) I have found that starting with 1/4 - 1/2 the recommended daily amount is usually more than enough. And don't waste your money on feeds that claim to be "diet" or "low fat"; typically these are much higher in carbs which will pack the weight on and provide less quality nutrients than regular feed. ;) You can use a much smaller amount of kibble or canned then top that with fresh foods like raw or steamed veggies and raw fruits, even some white turkey or chicken meat (that contains no spices or seasonings, boiled or baked).

Free feeding (leaving food out all day) also promotes weight gain in many pups. Setting regular times for meals is usually best. If Meesh has been free-fed, you may want to consider switching to several small meals a day instead. This might mean using a timed system until she catches on. ie - put the food bowl down for a set length of time, say 5-10 minutes, then pick it up whether she is finished or not. You will do this for each meal time and not offer anything else between meals. By doing this a few times, most pups learn to eat while it is there. Of course, with most cush babies getting them to finish a meal quickly is not an issue! :p

The pot-belly is typical in untreated cush pups but resolves as the cortisol is controlled. Have you discussed starting treatment with your vet?

Did you discuss the eye med that contains the dex with the vet? It would be nice if there are some alternatives out there for this med and you can learn if it is the root of her cush signs.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you Leslie and gang!
We keep on a diet regimen and feed her only Wysong kibbles once a day at about 5pm. She doe get teaspoon of low fat Ricotta cheese to get her pills down. She also gets Milkbone Essential Plus snacks 11 calories each about 2 or three. She also gets very tiny tidbits of my lunch-Mmmmm bad I know. Me was sitting up tonight and her kept sinking until she fell over to the floor.
Barney and Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

FYI,
Barney is a Japanese Chin, Pekingnese mix. brother to Meesh but not by blood. He is a rescue. Barney guides Meesh and watches over her, what a sweet boy. He is 8 years old. I love him.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Meesh sits and her head almost touches the floor and she raises it again to keep repeating this action. I guess it's the Cushings or the blood pressure and Malatonin pill. We have to put her eye pills in cream cheese otherwise she won't take them(2) each pill is for 10lb dog. One pill is for a bigger dog because of the stronger one pill. After the cream cheese and pill she gets stomach problems and moves around till it settles. Finally she rests by lying down on a carpet near me. I get up several times a night and check to see if she needs water.

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed,

I wanted to mention to you that if Meesh needs to lose weight, you need to stop giving her Milkbones. They are loaded with carbs and sugar. I recently researched them because a friend's rescue was returned to her and in six months the dog had gained 50% of her original body weight. She isn't a huge eater but her mom fed her three to four Milkbones a day. The first ingredient is Wheat flour and the third is sugar. Neither are good for Meesh. Most dogs love green beans, including my four. They would much rather have green beans than a bisquit. I'm sure Meesh would love them too. If you buy canned, make sure they are no salt added. Otherwise, buy frozen or fresh.

If Meesh's head keep dropping to the floor, it sounds like she may be sleepy. High cortisol can make a dog tired but add melatonin to the mix and I'm sure they get super tired and sleepy. Dogs with short snouts can have more difficult time breathing, and with the added weight Meesh has gained, she may be struggling to breath, which will also make her very tired. Does it look like she is just sleepy and nodding off?

If the cat scan of Meesh's head shows a lesion (tumor) on the pituitary gland and the acth stimulation test was consistent with cushing's, then I would think your vet could make a confirmed diagnosis of pituitary dependent cushing's and prescribe a more effective treatment than melatonin. The two effective drugs are not inexpensive so perhaps your vet wanted to give Melatonin a try in the hopes it might help alleviate some of Meesh's symptoms. Is that correct?

Glynda

[Meesh/Barney]

Meesh sits up and her head sinks down, then she lifts her head again and repeats the action, sometimes she falls to the floor. Guess this Cushings or the blood pressure pills and the Malatonin she takes at night. I wish I could help her.

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed,

Have you called your vet and asked if this could be a side effect of the blood pressure medication?

[Meesh/Barney]

Thanks for the reply! I will see the Vet tomorrow and will find out more about her condition. God Bless.

[lulusmom]

Good luck at the vet tomorrow. I hope he can figure out what is going on with your precious Meesh. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.

Glynda

[Meesh/Barney]

I just visited our Vet and was asked about Lignin for Meesh. Anyone have experience with this???

[Meesh/Barney]

Another question. The Vet said we could give Meesh Duralactin but I was wondering how much of a pill for a 20lb dog? Good news-Meesh's blood pressure was between 160 and 180. She lost 8 oz too.

[mytil]

Another question. The Vet said we could give Meesh Duralactin but I was wondering how much of a pill for a 20lb dog? Good news-Meesh's blood pressure was between 160 and 180. She lost 8 oz too.

What dosage did your vet say to give her?

Terry

PS, sent you a message

[frijole]

I know a bit about Duralactin as I used it with Annie. It isn't a prescription drug. It is made with low lactose milk protein. The pills are quite large and if I recall you give one pill a day. It is clearly outlined on the bottle (assuming your vet gave you the bottle and didn't repackage them). I'm including a link to their website.

http://www.duralactin.com/

They are too big for pill pockets - hope she eats them as treats - they are vanilla flavored.

I'm confused how lignons and duralactin can help with the symptoms you were describing? Did your vet mention it? Duralactin is for pain (muscles) and lignons is typically given to dogs with atypical cushings.

Hope i didn't confuse you more - just curious what your vet said. Hugs to dear Meesh. Thank you for serving our country! Kim

[Meesh/Barney]

Yesterday the Vet (a very wonderful lady) suggested Lignin as she said Meesh had atypical Cushings. I told her about this site and she suggested posting to the folks who have used Lignin. Meesh's blood pressuure was between 160 and 180. Hope to hear from the foks on the site about Lignin.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed, :D

I use lignans and melatonin to treat my Squirt's Atypical along with a maintenance dose of Lysodren added last summer.

Squirt weighs around 15lbs and takes one 40mg HRM lignan capsule and two 3 mg melatonin capsules daily - one AM and one PM (this is per UTK recommendations for Atypical pups). There are two forms of lignans used to treat Atypical - the HMR or the SDG form. If it doesn't say HMR, then you are using regular SDG lignans, which is just fine. With the SDG form, you will probably have to give more than one capsule to get the amount needed - the main reason I switched to the HMR type as it take only one capsule VS three SDG for Squirt. For Meesh, she will probably need the same dose - 40mg of lignans and 6mg of melatonin daily. The lignans I give in the mornings along with one melatonin then at nite she gets melatonin but no lignans.

The combination of lignans and melatonin can help lower all of the intermediate, or sex, hormones that are elevated in Atypical pups. Where it really has power, tho, is addressing the estradiol. Estradiol can be produced outside the adrenal glands where the pharmaceuticals cannot reach. So even in pups who are on maintenance with Lyso, the preferred treatment for Atypical pups, the combination of lignans and melatonin is continued to address the estradiol no matter where it is being produced.

Atypical is a form of Cushing's in which the cortisol is normal but the intermediate hormones, one or more of the five, are elevated. So if Meesh's cortisol is elevated then she has true, or conventional, Cushing's and not Atypical. However, using the lignans and melatonin probably won't hurt her either way - they are quite mild.

Here are some links about Atypical and the treatment for it -

Atypical Cushing’s*
(Estradiol, Androstenedione, 17-Hydroxyprogesterone, Progesterone and Aldosterone – an elevation in one, all, or any combination of these hormones, without elevated cortisol.)

http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=485128&sk=&date=&pageID=1

Beware of false positives, negatives in canine hyperadrenocorticism testing
http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=132&t

UTK Panel
Explanation of hormones
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/treatment.php

Treatment Option Sheet
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/TreatmentInfoAtypicalCushings201107.pdf


Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Leslie and gang,
Thank you for the information. I am bringing it to the Vet. The most kind, caring people on this site. God Bless you.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Leslie and gang,
Is the medication you listed helping the dogs?

Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

I should have said something about that, huh? :p

Yes! It is helping her. In fact, her estradiol has been normal the last two tests and on her last one all were normal except for the Androstenedione. Her signs are well controlled expect for the panting, but she is very heat-sensitive like her mom. ;) I don't think her panting is related to the Cushing's.

We added the Lysodren last summer because her signs suddenly became quite strong - appetite, drinking, peeing, hair loss. So we added the maintenance dose of Lyso and she has been just fine since. With Atypical, you don't go through a loading phase like is done with conventional Cushing's; the pups are put straight on the maintenance dose.

The Lysodren loading phase works by eroding a miniscule layer of the outer cortex of the adrenal glands. With Atypical, this erosion isn't necessary. What we want to do in Atypical is sort of stun them, nudge them, from time to time and say, "Hey, slow down!" And this is what the maintenance dose in Atypical does. It can take up to four months for the lignans and melatonin combination to work. So we always give them a good, solid chance to work before considering adding the Lyso to the mix. Squirt was on the lignans and melatonin combination from 2008 til last summer with good results. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Thanks again for the info on medication workings. Sent to my Vet.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

How much Duralactin do I give Meesh. She is 20lbs now, normally 16 lbs.
Ed

[frijole]

How much Duralactin do I give Meesh. She is 20lbs now, normally 16 lbs.
Ed

Sorry I thought I posted a link to the manufacturer's web site where all of that is covered. My dog weighed about the same and she took a pill a day. They are very big so I gave her 1/2 in the a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m. There is nothing dangerous in them so you don't have to worry about overdosing. Good luck. Kim

[Meesh/Barney]

Kim,
What was the value of the pill. They come in different strengths. Phoned several pet stores none of them ever herd Duralactin.
Thanks for the reply!
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Here are several links where you can purchase it online -

https://www.google.com/search?q=duralactin+for+dogs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=duralactin+for+dogs&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=9Z4&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=qN6FT9q6HIHo9ATA1q3SCA&ved=0CJsBEK0E&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=3c2be9d6a640a4&biw=1439&bih=631

[frijole]

Kim,
What was the value of the pill. They come in different strengths. Phoned several pet stores none of them ever herd Duralactin.
Thanks for the reply!
Ed

I only saw one strength when I went to buy them - 1000 mg. Again, its made of milk lactose so it's holistic. It is not real well known yet - I used it over a year ago for my Annie. I posted the info in a thread because I figured it could help some other cush dog owners. Here is a thread I started along with comments from others:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2635

I bought it online as it was much cheaper. My vet now carries it though so it's becoming more available. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

I really fought against purchasing online for quite some time. It wasn't natural and didn't seem safe. But as time passed I came to realize that much of what Squirt needed wasn't available through vets, pet stores (even the specialty ones), organic food stores, farmer's associations - nada - and I had no real choice. So I bit the bullet and ordered online using PayPal. I don't use credit cards so this was an easy and safe way when I needed something soon. If I could wait or the company didn't use PayPal, I simply placed the order then mailed a check. I've been ordering online for several years now with no problems.

How is sweet Meesh today?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Squirts Mom,
Meesh had a rough few hours last night. The choking, sitting up,
sliding down. This morning she seemed better, wagged her tail at our morning greeting. I don't know she feels with this Cushings, how her life has changed, she can't see to well now.
I ordered Duralactin for her yesterday via the Web, no local vet stores ever heard of it.
God Bless,
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

I hope the new meds will help her feel better soon. Bless her little heart and yours, too. It is so hard to see our babies feel less than themselves and feel so helpless to do something positive. Know we are all with you in spirit and here any time you need to talk or ask questions.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Squirt's Mom]

By the way, here are some links to my albums about my "gang" - Squirt, Trinket and Brick. Trinket and Brick are blind, Squirt is my cush baby. Brick also has Hydrocephalus.

Squirt, for the most part (the hairy yellow one! :D)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=18

Trinket
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=246

Brick (who I see needs more pics! :p)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=320

[Meesh/Barney]

Love your "gang." This site and the wonderful people have helped with Meesh's problem. My Vet doesn't want to stress Meesh with her high blodd pressure to more testing for Cushings. The 8 hour ACTH test would be harmful. Meesh had a cat scan of her stomach in November 2011. I am just swimming in doubt about this Cushing thing. I trust my Vet!!

[Meesh/Barney]

Want to know where it is the best place to by Lignans on the Web.
My Vet just phoned and wants to put Meesh on Lignans and increase her Malitonan fro 3 grams tp 6 grams. Any comments?

[lulusmom]

You can find the HMR Lignans at Swanson Vitamins online.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU334/ItemDetail?SourceCode=INTL405&CAWELAID=129499804

The UTK site is not detailed in their dosing and reflects a dose of 10 - 40 mg for small to large dogs. Please ask your vet for appropriate dosing. If he doesn't know, you may suggest that he contact the University of Tennessee. Their phone number is 865.974.5638

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you Lulusmom!
Sent info to Vet. Not wasting any time. Also, no local pet stores carry Duralactin.

[lulusmom]

You can find Duralactin online at several sites. I found the best deal on Ebay. Here are a few sites, including the Ebay listing.

http://www.entirelypets.com/duralactin.html?gclid=CIHTxY_qtK8CFckbQgodPhVYlQ

http://www.1800petmeds.com/Duralactin-prod10684.html?AFFID=GG&ID=162431842

http://www.amazon.com/Duralactin-K9-Chew-1000mg-tablets/dp/B000OBYVPA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duralactin-Canine-1000mg-180ct-Chewable-Tabs-Dogs-/110644912038

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Lulusmom,

The Duralactin came today. Meesh had her first 1/2 pill this afternoon. Thanks for the help.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Let us know how it works for her! I hope you see improvement soon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Gang,
Just got back from the Vet. First, the Duralactin is working for Meesh, she is walking better-Hurrah! The Vet wants her to have 6 mg of Malatonin per day and to start Lignan. Now I have to find out were to buy Lignan.

Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

So glad the Duralactin is helping! :)

I use the HMR spruce lignans from Swanson. Here is the link to order these from -

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU334/ItemDetail

Here is a link for flax lignans -

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-flax-seed-lignan-extract

If you have a Whole Foods or some other organic health food store in your area, they may have lignans but the only kind I found were the oils and that is not what our babies need.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

edited to add PS. Make sure the melatonin is not time released, extended, or anything else. Just plain melatonin is what works.

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Leslie,

Does Lignan come in different strengths, little dog, big dog?
Thanks for the lead on where to purchase.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

The dose of lignans Meesh needs depends on her weight. Here is the dosing info from UTK -


Lignans are safe, so doses don’t have to be exact.
Suggested doses:
SDG (flax) lignan; one milligram/lb B. Wt./day.
HMR (spruce) lignan; 10-40 mg/day for small to large dogs.

As an example, Squirt weighs around 15 lbs. When she was on the flax lignans, she needed 40mg a day to get the SDG amount daily amount needed. On the HRM lignans, she still gets 40mg a day.

Herbs are generally standardized, so you have to look at the percentage of standardization to determine the actual dose of the active ingredient you need. Here is how that works -

One 40 mg capsule contains 20% flax lignan extract (standardized), so one 40 mg capsule = 20% lignans
{20% is 1/5 of 100% (or 100 divided by 20 = 5)}
Therefore, each 40 mg is divided by 5 which means 8 mg of lignans (SDG) is contained in each capsule. So you base the dose on the standardized SDG amount, not the mg listed on the bottle. Hope that helps - math is not my strong point so it's not easy to explain. :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Leslie and Gang,
I ordered the flax seend Lignan and was told that the 30 size pill would ok for Mmeesh who is 20 lbs. Was told 10 more would be no problem. Wad told not buy time released as was stated in one reply here. Thanks for your help.

Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Leslie and Gang,
Meesh had her first Lignan pill today. The Duralactin is working she does more walking and this morning started to play with Barney.
Thanks to everyone!
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello All,
Just got the Vet report back. Meesh has slighly elevated calcium and
now Barney has elevated calcium and protein in his urine. Vet said hope it not Cushings for Barney too. Vet will run 2 more tests to confirm urine results.
In shock.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Hope it's nothing major. Let us know what the vet thinks about it. A couple of months ago both my little ones came back with elevated blood glucose and low sodium. They were both eating the same food which made me suspicious so I'm cooking for them, too, now. :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Gang,
The Vet phoned me today with the results of Barneys blood work.
His protein in the urine was #2 out of 5. Good results. Hurrah!

[Meesh/Barney]

Will Meesh always sit and start tp fall asleep and raise her head again and repeat this for hours? Is this Cushings forever? Sometimes her head goes to the floor and she raises herself and repeats.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Yes, Cushing's is forever unless it is adrenal based and the tumor can be removed surgically - in the USA anyway. In other parts of the world, they are also removing pituitary tumors with some success and here in the US we have begun similar treatments but few are candidates or can afford it. So, for most of us, yes, Cushing's is forever.

However, the head drooping thing you see with Meesh is not something we typically see with cush pups so I wonder if that isn't due to something else. Has her neck/spine been looked at? Or, are some of the meds she is taking making her really drowsy and out of it?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Leslie and Gang,

Meesh was on 3mg of Malitonan and now 6mg, but she always drooped her head. I am happy when she finally lays down for awhile.
Guess I just am sad to see her this way, but having eyesight problems has relaly knocked me for a loop. I don't have to tell you and the good folks on this website about the pain of seeing your kids sick.
Thanks for the reply,
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

The melatonin will make her a bit sleepy until she adjusts so that could be part of what you are seeing. I hope it improves as she adjusts to the melatonin.

Oh, yes, we know full well how difficult it is to see our babies not feeling well. It is heart-breaking, frustrating, and, at times, almost more than we can bear. I sometimes look at my Squirt, so grateful for the 14 years we have shared, yet so fearful of what the next few may bring. If I let myself, I will become unable to function just at the thought of having to face one single day without her. So I enjoy every minute with her as I know you do with Meesh. We have been so blessed, have we not, to have such precious little souls share our world?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you Leslie and Gang. You have been so giving of your thoughts of the love we have for our precious kids.
Ed, Meesh and Barney

[Meesh/Barney]

My 9 and a half year old has atypical Cushings since November 2011. plus blood pressure under control. Okay. Meesh has Bilateral retinal degeneration. She can't see except somewhat with very strong light. She bumps into objects when walking. Is there any hope that she will ever see again? We are going to a new eye doctor next Friday. Are there any questions I should ask??
She has eye drops every other day. They are:Neopolydexamethasone and every day Ocu-Glo flaxseed.
We are dealing with the Cushings but her eye problem is destroying me.
Ed

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed,

I'm sorry but nobody here will be able to tell you if there is any chance for Meesh to see again. I believe that question should be reserved for the eye specialist you will be seeing next week. I know that it's heartbreaking to watch your baby bump into things but I know from experience that most dogs adapt quite quickly to their loss of vision. Of course, it goes without saying that dogs who have sudden vision loss have a difficult time at first navigating their way around but even then, they learn a lot faster than us humans.

Sometimes it helps to talk to others who have been through the same thing. There are some blind dog support groups that can answer your questions and help you help Meesh adapt to her blindness. You might want to check out the blinddog group and the yahoo blind dog group. Please see URL for both below:

http://www.blinddog.info/msgbd/index.php and http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/blinddogs/

[jasmine1971]

Cushings started about November of 2011, withe the thirst and weight gain from 16 lbs to 20 lbs. Meesh is a black and white Japanese Chin (a rescue) 9 year and 5 months old. Her high blood pressure has affected her vision. We are givin blood pressure medication and eye drops for her eyes ( whites ahd turned red).
Trying to give her Ocu-Glo for her eyes to slow down loss of vision.
I live in New York.
Ed

im not sure if im on the rt page to post im new i used to raise japanese chins love them & im 41 & ive had a chin since i was 5 yrs old i put my last one down in 09 he was old & has congestive heart failure & was suffering greatly it was heart breaking he was one of my pups i raised & kids named him walker tx ranger walker for short
your amazing for rescuing him chins are loyal loving & beautiful , my mother gave me a pomeranian so poms & chins & jack russells are my favs per a russelll to be mixed so not as hyper lol my pom kizzy is 10 yrs old & has cushings , i just started supraglan a natural product so im praying it will be our miracle for panting water intake round belly weight gain & weak back end its hard on them & hard on us & heart breaking & pocket book breaking my thoughts are with you how long have you had him ?

[Meesh/Barney]

Is there anything besides Dualactin for Meesh's legs and joints?
All help appreciated.
Ed

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Ed,
I don't remember, but when did you start giving the Dualactin? It usually takes 4 to 7 days to see results.

[frijole]

In addition to Duralactin I gave my Annie glucosamine chrondrotin, fish oil and weekly acupuncture treatments.

Kim

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Kim,
Thanks for the reply. I had acupuncture 17 times and it never worked for me. Very happy ir works for your Annie. Do you use any special Glucosimine or Chondroitin? ( I don't spell to well)
Ed

[frijole]

Ed, I just bought the stuff at the store but in capsule formula so I could sprinkle it on the food. 1/2 in the a.m. and 1/2 at night. Kim

[Meesh/Barney]

Where do I put Meesh's photo?
Ed

[Roxee's Dad]

Hey Ed,
Go to User CP (upper left area of your screen)
Then go to Edit Avatar
then follow the instructions on that page... You probably want to upload from your computer.

Or did you mean to start an album?
Go to User CP
then go to Pictures and Albums

:)

[Meesh/Barney]

I tried to upload a foto of Meesh from a word document to the photo album-no luck. Something wrong with me. John's instructions were good then I got lost.
Ed, Meesh's Dad.

[Meesh/Barney]

Meesh was at the Eye Doctor this morning. She has SARDS Sudden Acquired Retinal Degeneration. Dogs can lose vision in hours or days. Meesh will have a ERG Test-electroretinogram, May 21st. Cost $300-500.

[frijole]

Ed, I do not know much about SARDS other than we have had members experience this. It does hit suddenly. If I recall the quicker you treat it the higher the likelihood that the sight can be saved. There's an article here as well as links to other sources of info. I hope this helps. Sending warm thoughts your way. Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Ed,
Gosh I am so sorry Meesh is going through this. I did find an interesting article that covers what little we know about SARDS.

http://www.michvet.com/library/ophthalmology_SARDS.asp

My Roxee had cushings and suddenly went blind and SARDS was suspected but never confirmed. Blind pups actually learn to get around really well. I would advise that you don't move your furniture around so Meesh doesn't have any unexpected surprises, and make sure he knows where his water bowl is.

As far as the pictures go, you will need to copy (right click on picture and click on "Save picture as") the picture from your word document and save it on your computer as a jpeg file. I would save it to my desk top so it will be easy to find. Let me know if your still having problems and I will try to go into more detail. I as well as many of us would love to see a picture of Meesh. :)

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi John,
Reduced size of Meesh's photo but could not get it on the website.
Tried photos and albums and Avatar.
Ed

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Ed,
Okay, we really want to see your sweet little Meesh :) so you have presented me a challenge. :D

1. Go to User CP
2. Click on Edit Avatar
3. In the lower of the 2 boxes... click "Custom Avatar"
4. Click on Browse... this will open to your computer and then pick the picture you want as your avatar.
5. Click the open box after you pick your picture. this should then return you to the "Edit Avatar" page.
6. Click "Save Changes"

Now I expect to see that sweet girl the next time I log in ;)

After we accomplish this, we will work on your album :p:);)

And........ How is Meesh doing?

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello,
Do dogs with Cushings ever lose the weight they gained at the onset of Cushings? Would like to get rid some of the 4lbs Meesh gained to help her in walking, etc.
Ed/Meesh

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Ed,
I don't remember without looking back, if Meesh has a voracious appetite? When my Roxee's cushings was under control, meaning she no longer had the voracious appetite, she did lose weight.

[Meesh/Barney]

Thanks for the reply. No Meesh does not have a big appetite. She does drink water but it varies from day to day. We have a dog digital scale and her weight stays the same. Losing weight would help her legs, and us lifting from the floor. We have bad backs. So, weight loss would be good all around.
thanks,
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

John (Roxee's Dad)
I tried the steps you listed to post Meesh's photo but it didn't work.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Just came back from eye doctor-Meesh will never see again.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, Ed,

I am so sorry. I can imagine you are heart-broken. :( The odds are, she will adjust to her loss of sight much quicker than the rest of you will - at least that is my hope. As you see how she learns and adapts, your heart will begin to heal and you can take this part of her journey beside her as her source of love and support.

Trinket and Brick constantly amaze me. We just moved into a new home three weeks yesterday and they both are already acclimated quite well to the extra space and furnishings. Brick occasionally bumps into things as he is very touch oriented, knowing where he is by how things feel to his feet. So I will may put some rugs down once everything is in place as sort of a trail for him to use or bubble wrap the legs on the furniture. I bought quite a few rugs before we moved for him but before I could find them and put them out, he had already figured things out on his own. :D

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you Leslie. I've been looking into fragrances for each room. and a bubbling water fountain. Any ideas?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

The fragrances are a great idea! If her feet are as hairy as Trink's, touch may not mean much to Meesh but using rugs of different naps/textures at key places, or as a trail, might help as well. Always speak to her before touching her so she isn't startled by unexpected contact. Make sure her feed/water bowls and beds stay in the same places as usual. When you clean, put them back in the same spot. ;) Trinket doesn't like to put her face in a bowl with high sides and will not eat from a bowl - she eats on a plate. Brick could care less as long as it has food on/in it! :D

When we moved, I had intended to break my habit of having the TV on all day because I don't actually watch it...or I watch it too much. ;) But I got an antenna so I could get local channels and have noticed that Trink and Brick seem calmer with the sound than without it and they tend to hang out in the living room with the TV as opposed to roaming the house aimlessly. So it may give them a sense of company. Or perhaps it gives them a sense of continuity from their old home to the new one. So TV or radio might help her.

Keep in mind that her other senses - smell, hearing, and touch - are what she had to rely on now and use those to the best advantage. I learned a lot by simply watching my babies.

There are some groups online for blind dogs like this one and you can pick up some tricks there as well. Here is a link to the Yahoo! group, probably the most active -

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/blinddogs/

They also make some things to help blind dogs manuever without bumping into things so much. Here is a link to the Angelvest -

http://angelvest.homestead.com/

and the Hoop Harness -

http://www.handicappedpets.com/pet-care-articles/handicapped-pet-equipment/163-blind-dog-hoop-harness.html

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

The Vet told me today that Meesh had a rare form of Cushings.
Hope to get meesh's photo posted soon with help.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Was he relating the loss of sight to a form of Cushing's? If so, he may have been talking about SARDS. If so, it is likely all her cush signs will disappear in a few months as SARDS isn't really Cushing's, but presents like Cushing's. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Roxee's Dad]

Hey Ed,

Just have a quick minute.

Is the picture your trying to upload a jpeg or gif file? I seem to remember you saying you had it in a word document.

If so, you will need to copy the picture part of it, and save it as a .jpeg file.

[labblab]

Ed, here's another suggestion re: your avatar if you still can't make it work with John's advice. Can you successfully email the photo you have? If so, you can try emailing it to our forum gmailbox: k9cushings@gmail.com. And then we (I use the "royal we" here, because it will probably need to be a staffer who's more adept at manipulating photos than me! ;)) can try to transform the photo into an avatar on your behalf.

Marianne

[Meesh/Barney]

Bless you Marianne,
Thank you for for your kindness.
Ed

[labblab]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for emailing Meesh's photo, and can you believe it, I actually managed to upload it myself?! :o

It's a miracle! :p :p :D :D

Meesh is such a sweeie-pie!! :) :) :)

[Squirt's Mom]

awwww....what a DOLL! So nice to see that precious face at last! :)

[Meesh/Barney]

The Vet said that the Cushings brought on the SARDS and the retina degeneration. Think I have this correct.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Everyone,
Question. Can I give Meesh Duralactin and Cosequin at the same time?
Ed

[frijole]

Hi Ed love the photo of Meesh! I used Duralactin but not Cosequin. Duralactin is made from cows milk so I am fairly sure it wouldn't mess with the cosequin but I researched it a bit online for you. I read a vet tech used both and then I found this article and video from a vet where he talks about joint pain and using both products. Hope it helps! Kim

http://www.ehow.com/video_5246974_care-older-dogs-joint-pain.html

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

I thought of something else you can use with Meesh. One of the tips I was told about was to wear a bell on our ankle so that when we move our babies can hear where we are. That makes it easier for them to follow us especially outside. I never got bells because I'm one of those people who walk around talking to themselves allll the time so finding me and following me isn't usually an issue. :p I did, however, develop a habit to help them that has always been a pet peeve of mine - dragging the feet! I have always hated that sound but I now do it on purpose so my babies can hear where I am. Then I go to WalMart, hear that dragging sound, and about the time my irritation is rising, I realize the sound is coming from ME! :o:D:rolleyes: Then I talk to myself and laugh about it in the middle of the store...outloud. :o:)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Messh saw the Vet this morning. Her blood pressure was 150 great! Going to take Pepcid AC (Zamotidine) 5 mg orally twice a day and Dasuquin. Her weight hasn' t gone down-20.6 lbs. Oy!
Ed

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Ed,
Love the picture of Meesh :) She is a real cutie :)

[Meesh/Barney]

My Meesh will not take any pills. She locks her mouth shut. Been this way since a puppy. We have broken pills, put them in soft cheese, pudding, etc. A tussle for her to take. Any ideas fro 2 beleagured parents?
Ed

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed.

Have you tried pill pockets? My dogs will take anything in a pill pocket. I've had dogs who would not open their mouth and have had to almost use a crow bar to pry it open. I would put the pill in a glob of peanut butter and stick it to the roof of their mouth. Sometimes it worked and sometimes the little buggers would spit out the pill and we'd go at it again, usually with me forcing the pill down their throat. They were really mad at me for about five minutes. :D Another thing you can do is get a pill crusher, crush the pill, mix it well with a little bit of chicken broth and syringe it into her mouth. Perhaps Barney can try to hold her mouth open while you syringe. She may love the taste of the broth and eventually take it willingly.

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Lulusmom,

Thank you for your reply and information! Tried most of the things you wrote about. I phoned our Vet and she had a pharmacy that does meds for animals make up Meesh's meds so we can use a syringe. Hurrah!!! Supposed to get a call today to pick the meds up. More expensive, but worth every penny. My Meesh sleeps under my computer desk. We went out yesterday for a quick errand and left Meesh and Barney alone. WOW!!! did she scold me when we got back. We never leave them alone except this once.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

What is the difference bewtween Cushings and Atypical Cushings?
Meesg/Ed

[StarDeb55]

Ed, the adrenal glands make a few other hormones including testorone, estradiol, progesterone, aldosterone, & a couple of others. Atypical is when one or more of these associated hormones are elevated without a concurrent elevation of cortisol. Typical cushing's has an elevated cortisol which you already know, When the cortisol is elevated, it's pretty much guaranteed that one or more of these associated hormones will be elevated since cortisol is a "building block" for them. It doesn't matter that the associated hormones are elevated, if the cortisol is elevated the pup has typical Cushing's.

Hope this helps.

Debbie

[Meesh/Barney]

Is it possiblel that the yearly injections doggies get could with time bring on Cushings?
Ed

[StarDeb55]

Ed, I don't think anyone really knows what triggers the lesion in the pit gland that causes Cushing's. The lesion is a benign growth of cells that causes the pit gland to continually release ACTH hormone which tells the adrenal glands to pump out cortisol constantly. This lesion overrides the feedback loop between the brain & the adrenals that tells the adrenals, "all right, you have put out enough cortisol, STOP!"

There is a lot of on-going controversy about the continual vaccination of our pups & the things that it might cause. I do want to tell you that Meesh should have no further vaccinations of any kind, including rabies. With the immune system suppression that Cushing's causes, any type of vaccination poses a huge risk for our babies. If you live in an are that animal control regulations require regular rabies vaccinations, your vet should be willing to write a letter to give to animal control explaining the medical necessity that Meesh receive no further vaccines of any type.

I know this really is not an answer to your question, but there really isn't one. There are certain breeds that appear to be genetically predisposed to Cushings. As with human cancers, there may be a genetic component, environmental component, & many other things.

Debbie

[labblab]

Ed, I am unaware of any research that documents a link between vaccination and the tumors that cause Cushing's. Also, I do want to offer a different opinion about the advisability of vaccinations for Cushpups. I cannot speak to the specifics of Meesh's situation -- that would be something for you to discuss with your vet. But I do believe there are occasions when selective vaccination may be in the best interest of a dog who has been diagnosed with Cushing's. There are a number of factors that need to be taken into consideration including whether or not the dog has been stabilized on treatment, other health issues, previous vaccination history, the lifestyle of the dog, and the risks of disease associated with different geographical areas. For instance, there is a much higher incidence of rabies and leptospirosis where I live in Georgia than in some other parts of the country. So my vet might weigh vaccination risk factors differently than a vet elsewhere. If you are interested, you can read a conversation about vaccination that took place on another member's thread earlier this spring. The conversation starts here:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=72003#post72003

Vaccination is an issue that elicits strong feelings and a variety of opinions. But I personally believe there is no single answer that fits the situation for every Cushpup. It is best to discuss your dog's unique circumstances with your vet and arrive at the decision that is best for your own dog. If you take a look at that link, you'll be able to read my thoughts in greater detail, as well as the thoughts of others.

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Ed, I made the statement about no further vaccinations from my own experience. Both the IMS, & my regular vet when I was treating my first boy told me no more vaccinations. When Harley, my 2nd boy was diagnosed, I asked the same thing about vaccinations with the same IMS & my regular vet & got the same response, no vaccinations.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Ed,

Marianne is correct that we need to make an educated decision and consider all factors for our dogs but the most important factor, in my opinion, is determining whether or not our cushdogs need them. There is a difference of opinion among vets as to whether or not to administer vaccines to a dog with cushing's and if you if we were to take a poll of members here, I think you would find that most internal medicine specialists (IMS) recommend against them.

My dogs' IMS told me, "no more vaccines" so my dogs have not received vaccines for years; however, I was forced by a former general practitioner to either do a titer on my tiny cushdog or they would never admit her for treatment. I did and she didn't need vaccines. I parted ways with that gp vet because they are still mandating annual vaccines, in direct conflict with revised guidelines, which recommend that most vaccines not be given any more than every three years. Money is the only reason vets continue to give annual vaccines so if anybody has a vet that is doing this, please consider finding a new vet.

I heartily recommend that before deciding to vaccine Meesh again that you listen to a few audios of an interview with Dr. Ronald Schultz. Dr. Schultz is the highest authority in the land on canine and feline vaccines. He was the driving force and the head of the task force responsible for convincing the veterinarian world that revised vaccines guidelines were necessary. These guidelines have been adopted by most, if not all, veterinary association as have all 27 veterinary teaching hospitals in North America. UC Davis is one of those.

I have provided URL's for the four part interview with Dr. Schultz. I hope that all members will take the time to watch them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC--bGthNN8&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Zvg8tIxeY&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-6exZcbJ4&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPhj8Vq9ck

[labblab]

Ed, I apologize that we've hijacked your thread to conduct an extensive vaccination discussion. See where one innocent little question may lead you???

I'm sorry to continue the hijack but since the conversation has already been started here, I do feel compelled to make a couple more observations. Unlike Glynda, I am not convinced that the majority of specialists/vets throughout the country would never recommend vaccination of any type for any Cushpup regardless of age, history, lifestyle, or risk factors. Since we've never taken a poll of our entire membershp, we really do not have that answer. Some of us are more vocal about the subject (myself included) than others. But I don't think that translates into accurate statistics.

But beyond that point, I really do think there is a genuine danger in assuming that the recommendation given by an IMS/vet to another member is the same recommendation that is most suitable for your own dog. There are just too many variables at play. So even if it was actually true that "No vaccination" was appropriate for 99 out of 100 Cushpups, your dog might be the one for whom vaccination might save its life. That is why, in this instance, I don't think you can rely on the recommendation that another vet has made in relation to somebody else's dog. The issue is what is best for YOUR dog. And figuring that out involves a combination of self-education and thorough discussion with your own vet.

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Ed, in response to Marianne's post, I would like to apologize if I came across as being coercive in my opinions and observations. I shared my experience with my own vets with you and my observations here on the forum based on the hundreds of threads I have read over the years. I do that all the time here on any number of subjects, but not all subjects are as sensitive as vaccines. Fortunately, you are lucky to get a good number of opinions around here and not all are mutual.

Bottom line, Marianne is absolutely correct. You need to educate yourself, which is why I provided the links to the videos. As I said, Dr. Ronald Schultz is one of, if not the world's expert on canine and feline vaccines. Forget about whatever you hear from us on the subject and listen to what Dr. Schultz says. You will hear more than you ever wanted to know about vaccines such as what type of vaccines there are, at what point in life they should begin, the frequency they should be given and alternatives to vaccines, such as titers and/or vet waivers, if animal control in your area allows them. Jot down questions you may have while listening and discuss them with your vet. I don't have a problem; however, telling you that if your vet still expects Meesh to have annual rabies vaccines for any other reason than satisfying licensing requirements, I would heartily recommend that you find another vet.

Glynda

P.S. In the event any members may have misinterpreted or misunderstood my comments, I want to make it perfectly clear that at no time have I ever said that I am convinced that the majority of specialists/vets throughout the country would never recommend vaccination of any type for any Cushpup regardless of age, history, lifestyle, or risk factors. That would be beyond presumptuous and completely irresponsible, as I am ignorant of how the majority of specialists and vets in this country feel about administering vaccines to cushdogs. What I said was "if" we were to take a "poll of members" here, "I think" you would find that most internal medicine specialists (IMS) recommend against them. I can see now that my opinion could have been misinterpreted. I clearly should have inserted the word "members' between the words most and internal medicine specialists. My bad.

[Meesh/Barney]

No problem with anything you post. Very happy for the response to vaccinations by one and all. I sent a copy of your posts to my Vet. Hmmm.

[lulusmom]

It was a great idea for you to share our thoughts with your vet. I've shared quite a bit of information I've learned here with my gp vet and IMS. We've had good conversations about any number of things which helped me learn. I'm hopeful that this will bring about some very meaningful and educational communication between you and Meesh's vet.

How is Meesh feeling today?

[Meesh/Barney]

Hi Lulusmom,
Meesh isn't too badly except for being blind. She isn't scheduled to her Vet until September.
Thanks for your interest in my Meesh.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Question: Meesh has been on DASUQUIN 26 days, if you have your doggie on this medication have you seen any improvement or side effects?
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

My Meesh has a new thing in the morning, hiding under my bed. I'dont know if it is because she wants to be near or because she doesn't want to take her blood pressure meds and Malantonin. We have a job getting her out from under the bed. What puzzles me is how she manages to get under the bed with her bad legs. My wife is on her hands and knees trying to get Meesh out and my other dog Barney is running around all upset. All I do is yell Meesh's name.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Perhaps the Dasuquin is working, allowing her better use of her legs...which means she can better drive you and mom and brother nuts! :D

If she is food motivated, you might try coaxing her out with a scrumptious bite or two. The activity of everyone calling and Barney's worry may be too much for her. So, you also might try just ignoring her and see if she will come out on her own to find out what everyone is up to...especially if Barney is getting fed or treats and she's not. ;)

Squirt got real tough to pill a couple of years ago. None of the tricks that used to work, worked any longer. So, I use capsules I can open to pour on food, and my mortar and pestle a LOT! I put her meds in her food, which is home cooked so it is moist and soft. The ones she has to take apart from food, I crush then mix them with a tiny bit of Tripe and she takes them right down. Be sure it is ok to crush her meds first if you want to try this - some things shouldn't be broken apart from the coating on the pill. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

Thanks Leslie and gang,
We had to have Meesh's done by a pharmacy specializing in dog medication. They put the meds in syringes and we can get the meds into her much better. Meesh it's under my computer desk and so seeing the monitor print is difficult. But, Meesh is with me and that is great!!!!!!! Love conquers all.

[Meesh/Barney]

Meesh had her blood work on on this past Tuesday, Sept. 4th. It was good! My Vet was overjoyed. Her blood pressure was good. For Meesh's stomach we had been using Pepcid now she is on Prilosec, 1/4 of a 20.6 mg tablet per day. Hoping this will help her problems in the stomach. Prilosec told me in a phone call that Prilosec never had been tested with dogs. My Vet is an Internist and has used this safely.
Meesh is leping at night gets up and gurgles or something like that and when it passes she goes back to sleep. Glynda on this website told me about Diamondback meds, will save a fortune on her blood pressure meds, etc. What great bunch of people on this site.
Ed

[molly muffin]

So glad that Mesh's blood work is good! That is fantastic news. Hope the tummy stays settled. That is really interesting about the Prilosec.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Meesh/Barney]

Hello Sharlene,

We are going back to pepcid, the Prilosec is having a diarhea effect.
This a side effect of Prilosec in humans also.

Thanks for you reply,
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

I tried Prilosec in one of mine with the same results. We have better luck with Pepcid AC or Tagamet.

Hope that sweet girl is feeling better soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

Happy 56th wedding anniversary Ed and Trudy!

[Squirt's Mom]

WOOHOO! I second that! Congratulations to you both!

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you for the anniversary message. Bless you all.
Ed & Trudy

[Meesh/Barney]

Has anyone used Acupuncture for their dogs legs? Meesh takes Duralactin and Dasaquin for the legs.
Meesh's Dad

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Ed,

Yes, several here have used it. If you will go to the "search" button, click the little arrow and enter "acupuncture" in the box, then click "show posts", that will give you links to posts where folks have talked about, or asked about, it.

Or, if you prefer, I'm willing to bet there will be some folks along soon to share their experiences with you! ;) But you may find more info via the search feature.

How is Meesh doing today?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

I've read jmac's thread. She is currently using acupuncture and laser with Hannah for back/leg problems.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3134&page=35

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Meesh/Barney]

Tomorrow, October 24, Meesh will be 10 years old. A year ago little did we know that the past year would be devasting for our dear Meesh. Our hearts are broken over her condition. The worst, her blindness. I hope I can live long enough to be with her. So, it is almost time for Happy Birthday for my dear sweet Meesh.
Ed

[molly muffin]

I hope Meesh has a wonderful birthday. Poor little thing. I am sure though that she is happy to just be with you. Just as they make us happy with the unending love, so to do we make them happy.
I wish you all a very happy day.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Happy 10th Birthday, Meesh!!!

[lulusmom]

:D:D:D:D:D:DHappy Birthday Meesh!:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Squirt's Mom]

Happy Birthday, Meesh!!!

[Roxee's Dad]

:):):) Happy Yappy Birthday Meesh !!! :):):)

[Boriss McCall]

Happy Birthday Meesh!!

[molly muffin]

Happy Birthday Meesh!!! :)

[Meesh/Barney]

Thank you all for Meesh's birthday greetings!!!!!!!!!!
A thankful family,
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

Stunned! Meesh sits up all day and night and pants and her head sinks down. I know because for some 10 hours at night she beside my bed, doing this. When does she sleep? She has an appetite, except she doesn't eat much of her supper, Cut back on the portion Wysong maintenance kibbles and Purdue's Honey Roasted Chicken, small pieces, mixed in to the Kibbles. I am totally bewildered and depressed, wonder how Meesh feels.
Ed

[Meesh/Barney]

This morning we brought Meesh to the Hospital. She wasn't breathing right and didn't eat. The Vet has her in an Oxgyen cage and is monitoring her blood and other vital signs. The Vet said she was slightly blue. I am praying for my Meesh. I signed a resusitate paper.
Ed

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, Ed,

Prayers are with you and Meesh. Please let us know how things are going.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Tina]

Sending my prayers for Meesh also.

Hugs,

Tina and Jasper

[lulusmom]

Ed and Trudy,

I'm with you both in spirit and praying with everything in me that the vets can find out what is wrong with your girl and make her better. We're all here for you and will be waiting for your updates.

(((Big Comforting Hugs))))
Glynda

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Ed,
I am also here and keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.

[frijole]

Ed and Trudy, I'm following along with the rest of the gang and wanted you to know that the "Cushings Angels" are surrounding you in thoughts, prayers and love. Sending strength and wishes for a quick recovery. xoxo, Kim

[Boriss McCall]

Praying for your peace & little Meesh's recovery.

hugs

[mytil]

I too am sending tons of healing thoughts to your sweetie pie....and tons of ((hugs)) to you both! Your little Meesh knows you are both there for her and we are here for you.

Keep us updated
Terry

[Squirt's Mom]

We are still by your side, Ed and Trudy. You both and Meesh are being lifted up in prayer and held close in the hearts of your family here.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Meesh/Barney]

I just spoke wwith our VET, she is worried about Meesh who isin the hospital getting oxygen. The Vet is waiting for the heart doctor. Her color is not good. Part of heart enlarged. I am trying to keep myself together.
Ed & Trudy Meesh's Mommy anf Poppy

[Maya]

Awww bless her....I'm sorry to hear little Meesh is not feeling well. I know it's worrying... thinking of you......
Hugs from Leah and Maya

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thinking of you and Meesh

[Harley PoMMom]

I, too, am here and will be keeping you, Trudy, and dear Meesh in my thoughts and prayers.

[Squirt's Mom]

Are ya'll ok in the storms, Ed? Praying for you all today and in the coming days.

[frijole]

Angels fluttering on your behalf sending love and strength. Hang in there sweet Meesh! YOu guys take care in this storm ok???? Keep checking in cuz we worry. xoxo Kim

[molly muffin]

Keeping you and little Meesh I'm hearts and prayers.
Love
Sharlene

[lulusmom]

I just spoke with Ed and am relieved and happy to report that he and Trudy are okay. They are still without power but a wonderful friend gave them a generator so they are keeping warm.

Sadly, sweet Meesh couldn't overcome her breathing difficulty so Ed and Trudy made the very difficult decision to help their girl cross the bridge last Tuesday, Oct. 30th. Godspeed little angel Meesh and please watch over your mom, dad and Barney.

[molly muffin]

Oh No, poor little Meesh. I am so very sorry to hear this. Ed and Trudy must just be devastated. :(
I hope they get power back soon.

hugs and thanks so much for letting us know,

Sharlene

[frijole]

I am crushed. Glynda thanks for reaching out and the update. Please tell them we are relieved they are safe but very saddened to hear about Meesh. Sending lots of love, Kim

[mytil]

Oh Ed and Trudy, I am so very, very sorry of your loss. When you both get the chance to get online - know that our hearts are with you both.

(((((hugs))))))
Terry

[Bo's Mom]

I am truly saddened by the news of Meesh's passing. Your Angel girl now watches over all of us and shines brightly with the memories that she leaves behind.

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Ed and Trudy,

I cannot imagine what the two of you have had to deal with over the last week. It is mind-boggling to see the scenes from up there left by Sandy. That storm was enough for anyone to have to face and ya'll had an added worry - separated from your sweet girl, unable to be with her. :( My heart is broken with yours for the loss of Meesh and for the horrors you lived through and are still living with.

I fully understand the connection. Squirt is my child. She could be no more my child if she were human. She and I have been together for nearly 15 years, through so much, the good and the bad, always side by side. Squirt is my Heart and Soul just as Meesh is yours. I know the pain of losing a human child and I fully empathize with your anguish today. If I could take that pain away, I gladly would.

Even though you couldn't physically be with her, she knew your hearts and thoughts were with her, she knew you were with her in the only way you could be at the time. Meesh understands and loves you as much as ya'll love her. She knows ya'll will always be together in Spirit and that one day she will be in your loving arms once again. I firmly believe this - we WILL see our babies again, we WILL get to hold them again, we Will get to cover their faces with kisses again. We will be reunited.

When you are able, we will be here to talk, to listen, to hold you both in our arms. You are not alone. You are surrounded by the angels, by your family here.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Tasha, and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal


I Will Wait For You...

I will wait for you...
Though we never had a chance to say goodbye,
Remember me...
When winter snows are falling through a quiet sky
I'll remember you
When, in our darkest hour,
You held my hand and prayed I wouldn't go,
But a silent voice called out to me;
My time had come, and I had to travel Home...

Since then, I know your life has never been the same,
For I visit you each day:
So many times I've felt your pain:
I've watched you cry:
And I've heard you call my name...

But now, further along life's road I stand
In a timeless world, just beyond your sight,
Waiting for the day when I can take your hand and bring you across
to this land of Golden Light...

Till then, remember me, you understand-and try not to cry.
But if you do:
Let your tears fall
For the happiness and joy we knew,
And for the special love we shared,
For love can never die.

~Stephen O'Brien

[addy]

I am so sorry life has dealt you so much at one time. Please know we are all saying prayers for you. I cant imagine how hard this all must be.

Fly free Meesh, we will never forget you or the incredible bond you had with your mom and dad.