New member Cushing diagnoses (9 y/o Jack Russell)

[Leigh Ann]

*Our 16 pound 9 yr old Jack Russell BB was diagnosed with Cushing's disease today. *they did and ACTH stimulation test to diagnose. symptoms are excessive thirst, frequent urination,and weight gain. *she also jerks a lot while she sleeping. It is similar to hiccups. *My vet has prescribed veteral, starting with 15 Mgs a day. she is hypersensitive to all drugs, has reactions after vaccinations and when taking flea medications. I do not have blood test results but will request copies tomorrow. She had high liver enzymes and was given meds. Don't remember what medication was. *Will get that info tomorrow also. Urine is dilated, negative for diabeties. *Very concerned.

Leigh Ann

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[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

What symptoms did your dog have that lead you and the vet to suspect cushing's? With dilute urine, I am assuming excessive drinking and peeing but would like to know if there are other symptoms like voracious appetite, panting, thinning coat, skin issues, muscle wasting and hind end weakness?

The acth stimulation test does not tell you if the dog has pituitary or adrenal dependent disease so am wondering if your vet did an abdominal ultrasound to make that differentiation? Cushing's is very difficult to diagnose, which makes it the most misdiagnosed canine disease. If any of the tests were 100% accurate, we wouldn't have to pay so much to have several done. The acth stim test is less likely to yield a false positive result than the low dose dex test but it is possible so we are always concerned if a diagnosis is made solely on the results of one diagnostic test.

Looking forward to hearing more about your baby and seeing the results of all testing. With respect to the blood chemistry, you need only post the abnormal values and please include the normal reference ranges.

Make sure that your vet does an acth stimulation test no later than 14 days after starting the Vetoryl. Give the dose with food the day of the test and get your pup to the vet within 3 to 5 hours after the dose.

We're here to answer any questions you may have so ask away.

Glynda

[Skye]

hello and welcome. you have come to a wonderful place for support and there are loads of experiences and knowledge here. You will never walk alone in this journey, the angels will flutter near by always.
will be standing by to see labs as well. did it say what her USG or BUN levels are?

[Leigh Ann]

I have an ultra soud scheduled for Wednesday. Symptoms were lethargic and sensitivity to touching of stomach. She was drinking and peeing a lot. Visit to vet, blood test with high liver enzymes. Meds given. She has really put on weight.. Seems to me all of this occurred in a few months. No hair loss, no panting, she is hungry. Licks the carpet constantly. Starting to not want to jump up on furniture.

Is it unsafe to divide capsules of veterol? Have 30mg tablets and was told to give half dose once a day for week to she how she reacts.

Thanks!


How can I use her picture as my icon?

[mytil]

I have just a sec but wanted to let you know it really is unwise to split the capsule - some do but have a specific pill splitter for it and wear gloves and wash hands thoroughly afterwards.

Here is information on Vetoryl - please do read through the information - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185.

Please make sure you read through this regarding adverse reactions and what to do in case your dog experiences them. Has your vet discussed any of this with you?

Here is the link to instructions on how to upload your photo -
Profile Pictures (or called avatar) read the posts in this link http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2018

Terry

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

Did the vet give you any other input? Did the vet tell you to give the vetoryl/Trilostane with food?

I am a bit concerned that you were given pills and told to split them. I mean, some members have done that and perhaps your vet did not want to look into compounding the drug.

Some of the symptoms you list are consistent with Cushings. It is a hard disease to diagnosis as no one test is perfect.

Please keep a close eye on your pup and if at any time in the next week she seems unwell, withhold the drug. Our motto is when in doubt withhold the drug. Look for vomiting, loose stools, lethargic behavior, not wanting to eat.

Others will be along soon.

Ask as many questions as you can.

love,
addy

[labblab]

If you are using brandname Vetoryl, it also comes in 10 mg. capsules. It seem as though that would be the better and safer way to go if your vet wants you to start out slowly on a lower dose. We have heard of a few vets who have instructed members to open the capsules, but it seems to me that it would be very hard to dose very precisely that way. Plus, the manufacturer has a specific warning against doing so:



Wash hands after use. Do not empty capsule contents and do not attempt to divide the capsules. Do not handle the capsules if pregnant or if trying to conceive. Trilostane is associated with teratogenic effects and early pregnancy loss in laboratory animals. In the event of accidental ingestion/overdose, seek medical advice immediately and take the labeled container with you.

Even though it means added expense to purchase a box of 10 mg. capsules, at least they will not go to waste even if you do "up" her dose to 30 mg. Plus, that way, if necessary you can gradually increase from 10 mg., to 20 mg. to 30 mg, etc.

Marianne

[jmac]

Hi, and welcome from me as well.

You have already been given a lot of good advice, and asked the important questions that will help us to help you and your dog. As others have mentioned, Cushing's is a difficult disease to diagnose, but with a competent vet and the knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum, you will be in good hands.

It does sound like your dog has some Cushing's symptoms, but it is tricky because many diseases have similar symptoms. I am glad you will be getting an ultrasound done. The LDDS test is also helpful in determining the pituitary vs. adrenal form of Cushing's.

Others have already mentioned the possible concern about splitting the pills, so please be careful, watch your dog carefully, and talk with your vet about this. Please continue to ask us questions and let us know how we can help. You are not alone.

Julie & Hannah

[Leigh Ann]

My vet is the one that told me to split the dosage. Does anyone recommend natural products as treatment or to help in addition to prescribed meds. Is there a way to keep track of my thread? Confused about website.

[lulusmom]

Hi Leigh Ann,

You aren't the first person who has trouble finding their thread. Once your thread drops off the first page, it's not easy to locate. I bookmark my thread or save it to favorites. You can do the same using the url for your thread which is

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4018

If you don't know how to do that, then copy and save the above url into a word or excel document. When you want to come back to your thread, simply copy and paste the url into the address bar.

As far as natural treatments, I've found that 1) there are none that have ever been properly tested for safety and efficacy and 2) they really aren't necessary. Symptoms resolve and blood and urine abnormalities usually normalize once you have the dog stabilized on treatment. However, some of our members prefer to give liver support such as milk thistle and/or SAMe.

With respect to opening capsules and splitting, as others have already told you, it isn't recommended. Compounding pharmacies can package into smaller doses for you. That would be optimum so check pharmacies in your area. and if you insist on opening the capsules and splitting them yourself, then please make sure you wear gloves and be very fastidious in cleaning up any residual powder.

[marie adams]

Welcome Leigh Ann and BB,

You are already getting good advice. So continue to ask your questions and concerns.

This will be your thread to post your questions and then we will post answers or stories to relate to your concerns and questions.

You are in the right place for support--you are now part of the family. :)

As you read more about Cushing's Disease you will start to relate to more symptoms BB may have. The weight gain could be because of a ravenous appetite--I remember when our Maddie started stealing food off the table--we found that confusing because she never did stuff like stealing food ever. There were other signs we didn't know indicated Cushing's and once we knew the symptoms it all made sense.

Take care and you are in good hands!! :)

[Leigh Ann]

I am curious why would we give a drug to our pets that is so dangerous for humans? What can this drug do to me? The problem is money. We had 30mg caps because my mom had her dog on them a month ago and took her off. I have spent thousands on BB's mom gizzy recently due to health problems. After the ultra sound I will decide about buying more . I purchased gloves and will be conscientious on clean up till then. Any idea what BB jerks? Mostly when she is trying to relax

Thanks to all

[labblab]

I am curious why would we give a drug to our pets that is so dangerous for humans?l
Any drug has the potential to be dangerous to a human (or another animal) if the person/animal doesn't suffer from the disorder for which the drug is prescribed. For example, if you don't suffer from high blood pressure, it could be extremely dangerous for you to take a drug that is designed to lower blood pressure. You could end up suffering from a life-threatening lowering of your own blood pressure.

When you open up a capsule and expose yourself to inhaling the contents -- or if you had a cut on your hand, for instance, and the drug could be absorbed through the skin -- in essence, you are "taking" the drug even though you don't have the physical problem for which it was prescribed. And in the case of Vetoryl (trllostane), you are dealing with a drug that affects adrenal hormonal balances. And accoring to Dechra's published literature, pregnant women have a particular risk of defects in their unborn babies, I'm guessing due to the hormonal effects of trilostane. So really, care should always be taken to guard against exposure to any drug that is prescribed for someone other than yourself.

As far as BB's jerking, can you tell us a bit more about this? I don't know if this is what you mean, but a number of us have seen unusual tremoring or "shivering" episodes in our Cushpups when they are at rest or sleeping. Take a look at this thread and see if this is what you mean:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2052

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Another concern with splitting capsules, (according to my pharmacist when I required about doing this with another med) - the drug itself is mixed with fillers inside the casing. When you open the casing (capsule) and split the content, you cannot be sure you are getting equal doses of the actual drug in each half. One half could contain more drug than the other half. So your baby could get a big dose of Vetoryl with the first half then almost nothing the next dose.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

What Leslie says is true about any drug in a capsule we try to open and split. The late Dr. Oliver from Unniversity of Tennessee Kentucky pointed that out to me in an email.

Please do not take this as a criticism, because it is not meant that way, but as my husband often points out, sometimes we get into a train of thought which leads us to be penny wise and pound foolish, the saying goes. I catch myself doing that alot. When we spend so much money on our dogs and money is hard to come by, sometimes taking a short cut does not make sense to save some money but we are tempted to do it anyway.

I understand why you need to do it but it may be better for your pup if you could figure out a way to compound from a reputable company instead or have the pills repackaged.

Either way, we are here for you. :):):)

hugs,
addy