Mami, Chow diagnosed with Cushing's (Mami has crossed The Bridge)

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys
I am new to this forum so please be kind. One of my Chows has Cushings disease which was diagnosed last May. After lots of research and soul searching about the possible drugs, I went down the herbal route and got her some Cushex drops. These seemed to be working and cut down some of the symptoms, and even her fur was coming back. Sunday evening her legs gave out from her and I thought that was the end for her. We have taken her to the vets today and he thinks she has now got Gastro problems, possibly and ulcer and she is anaemic. He more or less said he did not think the drops were helping and could have hindered her. I am unsure now whether to try the Vetoryl. I wanted to know how other Cushing dog owners have found Vetoryl. I am at a loss because it seems the more research you do about Cushings the more bombarded with it all I become. It seems that the Cushings will not kill Mami but all the other problems that come with it. Sorry for the long winded rambling. Thanks in anticipation.
Carol

[addy]

Hi Carol,

Welcome to our forum. Sorry to hear about Mami but I am glad you found us. If you could tell us a bit more about Mami, which tests did she have, how was Cushings diagnosed, what symptoms prompted the testing, anything else you can tell us is helpful.

My Zoe is on Vetoryl, we started treating her in June 2011. You will find many members here using that drug. We have found that starting at a low dose of 1mg per pound has been a good plan for most pups. We tend to see more side effects when they are started at higher doses.

Cushex drops are questionable. I know we all want a fix that does not involve powerful drugs but usually those powerful drugs are what saves our dogs.

Glad you are here, others will be along soon. We are looking forward to learining more about Mami.

Hugs,
addy

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me too. I am sorry your Mami is having the recent troubles of her legs buckling in but am glad it was not as serious as it could have been.

I truly wish there was a natural medicine that would work the same way as the traditional meds of Lysodren and Trilostane; but they do not, and that includes Cushex drops. These mask or work just on the symptoms and do nothing to address the root cause of Cushing's (excessive cortisol being produced by the body).

Has your vet treated any dogs with Vetoryl (Trilostane)?

Terry

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carol and welcome to you and Mami! :)

I am sorry you had to learn the hard way about Cushex. :( It is a shame that things like that are allowed to be sold. The makers of such products simply prey on the emotions of us parents who so desperately want our babies to be well with the least upset from treatment. They line their pockets with our hard earned money, lead us into thinking we are doing the best thing for our babies, while the whole time the only ones benefiting are those who sell such bunk.

I understand your fears about the drugs used to treat Cushing's. When my Squirt was first diagnosed, I had the same fears. But as I have learned more I have come to realize these drugs are no more dangerous than aspirin when they are used correctly. That is the key to treating Cushing's successfully with either Trilostane (Vetoryl) or Lysodren (Mitotane). Testing thoroughly before starting any treatment; following protocol of the drug chosen to treat with in dosing and monitoring; and observation by the parent.

We can help you learn what to ask, what to look for, and how to live as a cush parent. ;) It's not as hard as it seems right now, I promise. Read all you can here on the threads in from our Helpful Resource section, ask any questions you have, read some more and ask more questions. :p You will do just fine.

I want you to know that you and Mami are not alone. We will be with you all the way. All you gotta do is holler and someone will be here to talk to you if nothing else. You and Mami are family now. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rebelsmom]

Hi Carol, sorry for what has brought you here but really glad you found us. It would help in knowing what tests have been done and her symptoms have been. My pup has been treated with Vetoryl for almost 2 years now and has done very well on it. You are not a lone and we will all help you any way we can.

[Maya]

Welcome to this wonderful forum. We all know what you are going through. I started my Maya on Vetoryl when she was first diagnosed with Cushings and she is doing very well on it. She had severe hind leg weakness, to the point where she looked like she was wasting away. She has improved enormously and regained her strength and can walk reasonably well now. I highly recommend treatment. I noticed a big difference in Maya! Everything that you need to know about Cushings is somewhere on this forum and there are always kind loving people ready to give you advice and support.
Hugs, Leah and Maya:)

[jmac]

Hi Carol-
I just want to welcome you as well. I am sorry Mami is having trouble, but you have found the right place! There are many supportive, caring, and knowledgeable people here who can help you. I do not have any experience with drugs for Cushing's, except for Anipryl, which is not one of the most successful. My dog has such minor symptoms now that we are not treating at all. She tried Anipryl just to see if anything changed and there was not much of a difference in her symptoms, only in her ALKP level.

I do know that when I initially read about Cushing's I was overwhelmed about the thought of treatment because what I read about the medications scared me a lot. Even though I have no personal experience, I now feel totally different after reading on the forum for several months. Many, many people have successfully treated their dogs and their dogs have shown a great deal of improvement. I am confident that with the help of the people on this forum you can get through anything. They have so much knowledge and can guide you through the process of medicating, finding the right levels, etc.

You care about your dog and did what you thought was best. Now it might be time to try something else. We are always here to support you, help you out, and listen, so please let us know what we can do for you.

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Carol so sorry for what Mami and you are going through - but welcome to the form and I can tell you that you will be glad you did come here - very knowledgeable members with good advice as you can already see - I used vetoryl with my Penny and it is a good drug as long as your vet is knowledgeable - you need a very good vet/IMS for sure - I had my problems with a vet who did not know anything about the vetoryl and it was not good for awhile - so I would feel safe with it as long as the vet is GOOD!:) xo

[mamisaffron]

Hello Everyone

Thank you sooo much for all your replies, it has really warmed mine and Mamis heart for all your kind responses.
In answer to Addy we discovered Cushings last year when Mami had to have an emergency operation as she had developed Pymotera and when our vet did an ultrasound he noticed her adrenal gland was larger than normal. Dr D our vet then did her op for Pymotera and she recovered well. We then had our theory of Cushings confirmed after she had the blood tests (3 times in one day) sorry I cant remember the name. Dr D then suggested Lysodren and I did research and was pretty much panicked by the results that I found on line. This prompted me to try Cushex drops and at first these seemed to be working, urination seemed to calm and hunger was at least under control. Even Mamis beautiful fur seemed to be slowly but surely growing back. However after this weekend and her legs going trembly I have my doubts and I will be in touch with my vet this week about commencing Lysodren for my fur baby. Mami seems stronger today and more like her self. The vet thinks that she could have a stomach ulcer (she honked up some maroon coloured vomit) on Sunday and she is on anti coagulant tablets for that. She had aneamia but thinks that is due from possible bleed from her stomach. Sorry for the long reply again, and I feel very comforted to have found this forum. I also have another Chow Maddie and hope to God that she does not develope Cushings.
Thanks so much again

[marie adams]

Hi Carol,

Welcome to you and Mami!! :)

As you can see many of our wonderful members have been by to say hi and given great information to get you started.

Everyone here is caring and helpful in their own way. The experts will give you the info, research further, and just be there for you.

So take care and know you are in good hands!!! :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Carol,

A belated welcome to you and Mami! Cushing's disease can be very difficult to get one's head around, trust me I know! But, please do not be worried as we will help in any way we can.

I was wondering if you could get copies of all test/s that were done on Mami and post any abnormalities here, you see, by providing as much information as possible the more meaningful our feedback will be.

What symptoms does Mami display? The usual clinical signs of Cushing's are a ravenous appetite, excessive drinking and urinating.

IMO, since Mami experiences GI problems I would try Vetoryl/Trilostane first because Lysodren is known to cause gastric upset.

I am so sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but very glad you found us.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

Hi Carol,

I was about to mention the same thing as Lori just did. The number one side effect of Lysodren is gastric upset. Zoe has IBD and we had to go with Trilostane. The endocrinologist thought it would be easier on her and we had the ability to stop and start it if need be. If you load with Lysodren and have a problem and have to stop, you lose the load.

Does your vet have experience with Trilostane?

It might be something you wish to discuss.

hugs,
addy

[jrepac]

Hi Carol,
I can understand your feelings. I used Cushex drops for several months and really did not see any improvement or adverse effects for that matter. The drops are an over-priced concoction of herbs that according to homeopathic medicine are SUPPOSED to help relieve the various symptoms of Cushings disease. You can look up each ingredient and yeah, you'll see them attached to the various symptoms as a homeopathic remedy. I don't know of many here who have had winning results after trying them. Probably not harmful (in general) but maybe better to put the $35 per bottle towards other meds...be they anipryl, lysodren or vetoryl. Re: vetoryl, many have had very good results with it and arguably, it may be a bit safer than lysodren (this is often debated) . Anipryl may be the safest, but the least effective, of that group of 3. I suggest you discuss your concerns with your vet once the other health issues have been brought under control.

Jeff, Angel Mandy & the Girls

[StarDeb55]

Carol, a late belated welcome to you & Mami! I was reading your thread at work earlier today, but couldn't respond, then, when I got home my internet was down most of the afternoon. I saw one thing in one of your posts that I hope you can clarify.


The vet thinks that she could have a stomach ulcer (she honked up some maroon coloured vomit) on Sunday and she is on anti coagulant tablets for that. She had aneamia but thinks that is due from possible bleed from her stomach

I'm very concerned when you say your vet put Mami on an anticoagulant for possible GI bleeding I'm a lab tech with 30+ years experience & handle the testing to monitor anticoagulant therapy in people every day. If a person has a suspected GI bleed, it would be very dangerous to use an anticoagulant as the anticoagulant can make the risk of further bleeding quite high. You might want to double check with your vet as to exactly what medication Mami is on. I'm wondering if the med might be some type of acid prevention medicine to decrease the production of acid in her GI tract which would decrease the risk of an ulcer.

As Lori has already mentioned, it would be great if you could gather up all testing that was done on Mami as it just helps us to give you the best feedback possible. My last comment is please don't be fearful of lysodren. I have taken care of 2 Cushing's boys, now, & my first boy Barkley was successfully treated for nearly 8 years with lysodren. The secret to using either medication is a vet who is knowledgable about the medication, follows proper protocols for the med, & an owner who has educated themselves about the drug.

We are here to help in any way we can.

Debbie

[mamisaffron]

hi Debbie

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I really appreciated it.
Dr D my vet has prescribed Sucralfin 1g tablet (half a tablet twice a day) and Pantorc 20mg tablet (half a tablet every day)Mami does seem much better these past two days. Her stomach had been like a balloon and terrible noises coming from it. So much so that we took her to the emergency vet on Sunday night and he just said its part of Cushings blah blah. I am going to contact him again as he said he wants to do a blood count, thinks she is anaemic due to her pale mucous membranes around her eyes and pale gums.
Any info would be much appreciated.
Thanks soooooooooo much
Carol

[mamisaffron]

hi Lori

I will gather up the information. I live in Italy and sometimes things get lost in translation. However my vet is fluent in English, thanks goodness.
Cheers again for taking time to reply to me

Best Regards
Carol

[StarDeb55]

Carol, after doing a "google" for both of those meds, I'm relieved to say that neither of them is an anticoagulant. Pantorc is used to reduce the acid in the GI tract, & the other drug is used to treat GI issues. From the description, it sounds like the other drug coats the GI tract to help protect it.

Debbie

[mamisaffron]

hi Debbie

Thanks for your reply. I apologise for stating anticoagulant I was getting stressed by the upset of it all.:)

Carol

[StarDeb55]

No need to apologize. You were stressed & worried. The only reason why I caught it was because of my background.

Debbie

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

I wanted to pick your brains. What do you feed your Cushings pups ? I am feeding my girls kibble but I was thinking of feeding her myself but again there is a miriade of opinions out there.

Best Regards
Carol :)

[addy]

Hi Carol,

We have had many discussions on this topic and the answer is whatever food meets all the special needs a pup may have. For Cushings alone, a good quality protein is important to help the muscle wasting. Some feed a low fat diet since the pups can be prone to pancreatitis. Since they also can be prone to skin problems, you cannot go too low in fat.

I don't feed kibble because my dogs cant eat it and my personal opinion for my dogs is it is too highly processed but for many dogs it works just fine.

Dogaware.com is a good place to start researching food.

hugs,
addy

[marie adams]

Hi Carol,

When I learned my Maddie had Cushing's I was absessed with researching food. I decided to take her off all grains, beef, and started feeding a raw chicken diet from Northwest Naturals. After a while I started giving her some venison dry food with no grains in it--California Naturals. I know you said you live in Italy so not sure what is available there or how ordering online works with shipping.

She did great on both, but I added in flaxseed oil, fish oil to help with the skin and fur. She ended up losing a lot of fur--which is part of the Cushing's--but it came back just different.

You are doing a great job; so keep asking questions here.

Take care!!! :)

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

Really worried about Mami this morning. She was limping a little last night on her front leg but reasonably ok. Last night she cant get up at all, she is eating small amounts and drinking. Emergency vet does not know Mami and her symptons. I am afraid that this is something else apart from the Cushings. Has any one else experienced these weaknesses ??? Sorry for the rabbiting, crying on the key board. I am such a wimp She does not seem to be in any pain.

Thanks very much
Carol

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carol,

I'm sorry Mami was having a hard time last nite. How is she this morning?

She's not on any treatment for the Cushing's yet, right? So this couldn't be related to treatment.

Is she still on the other meds? The Sucralfin 1g tablet (half a tablet twice a day) and Pantorc 20mg tablet (half a tablet every day)?

If Mami is still acting the same way this morning, I would go ahead and take her to the ER vet. You can tell him that Cushing's is suspected but that treatment hasn't begun yet and about the meds she is on or that she just finished. It will be alright that they haven't seen her before - in fact, it is sometimes a bonus to have fresh eyes take a look at our babies. ;)

Please let us know how she is doing.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. Never apologize for posting when you are upset. Heavens! If that were a problem, I would have been run off ages ago! I have been a total blithering idiot on here more times than I can count...and these wonderful folks have stood right by my insane side the whole time! :p So no more apologizing - you are family and this family stands by each other through thick and thin.

[jmac]

Hi Carol,
I agree with Leslie. If Mami is still not doing well, I would go to the ER vet. I have had to do that with Hannah twice since her diagnosis. I just tell them she has Cushing's but we are not treating yet and tell them the other meds she is on. It has gone fine. I just know to avoid steroids with Hannah, as do they. And, like Leslie said, it might be good to have someone with fresh eyes see her.

Keep us updated and let us know if you have any other questions.

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Carol

Checking in on Mami?? Did you go to the vets?? Like Leslie said - never feel the need to apologize!!!! :)

Will check back

hugs xo

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

Thanks for your replies.
Mami is a little better, eating some chicken broth and drinking lots of water. She has been on her feet but very shaky. I think its her kidneys, but we will be going to the vets this week.
I have stopped crying for a bit anyhow.

Carol

[addy]

((((((hugs)))))))))


wait to hear what the vet has to say.

hugs,
addy

[Cyn719]

Checking in - glad Mami is eating alittle better:)

love and hugs xo

[mamisaffron]

Hi Guys

Once again thank you for all your concerns about Mami. We have taken her to the vets today, he wants to run some blood tests. More importantly put her on a drip. We should know more today, I am so very worried but I guess she is in the right place for treatment.

Carol

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carol,

Please stay in touch and let us hear how she is doing, ok?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mamisaffron]

Hi

Mami back from the vets. She has been on a drip all day as she was very weak. She is very aware of us and her surroundings wagging her tail and she is trying so hard to get up. Vet has taken a bunch of blood tests and we are waiting on the results. He said that they may be back tonight and hopefully we will know more about what ails my baby. Thanks for all the support I really appreciate it.

Carol

[Cyn719]

Carol


glad Mami is home with you. Will be waiting for the results. For now lots of love hugs and prayers xo

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Carol,

Glad to hear that Mami is home and surrounded by your love. Please keep us posted and keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[mamisaffron]

Once again thank you for your love and concerns.

Mami is doing ok, she has stood on her back legs this morning and trying so hard to get on her front legs. She is still eating and watching us like a hawk. In my hear of heart I dont think she is ready to leave us yet. I have had 2 dogs before and had to make that decision and I knew. We are still waiting for blood test results. Will keep you posted. Love to all owners of Cush dogs and all the other illnesses that Cush magnifies.
Carol

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

Just to give you an update on Mami. Blood tests have shown high white blood cells. Vet thinks its Pancreatis. She is aneamic probably he says due to the inflammation or infection. He is doing an ultrasound tomorrow morning to check for tumors etc. I feel a bit more hopeful as my fur baby has been standing up only for a while but she is trying. Will be hoping for the best results tomorrow.

Carol

[jmac]

Hi-

I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and Mami and sending prayers and positive thoughts your way today. I am glad to hear she is trying to stand up and is having some success. I hope the ultrasound will give you some helpful information and that Mami will be on the road to feeling better soon.

-Julie & Hannah

[Harley PoMMom]

Has the vet confirmed the pancreatitis with a spec cPL test or a snap cPL test? Pancreatitis can lead to kidney damage, and kidney disease may make a dog anemic.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

Back from Ultrasound. Mami has a larger than average kidney and large adrenal gland. Also said she has lots of sludge in her gall bladder which is large. No tumors seen, we are starting her on Vetoryl today, I am still very unsure about it, but we will see. She is on tablets for her inflammation of her gut. Mami seems fine doing a few steps at a time, peeing ok and poop ok. So I am very hopeful for my feisty Chow girl. Think he was suprised that she was not in any worse shape.

Carol

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carol,

By now, you know how "nosy" we can be at times. ;) Would you mind posting the comments from the ultrasound? Did they say anything about the kidney other than it was enlarged? Any idea why?

What dose of Trilo (Vetoryl) is Mami starting with and how often is she to take it?

Would you remind us how much she weighs now?

I am glad the pancreas seems to be ok - that is one scary organ when it gets mad! What med did they give her for the inflammation in the gut?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mamisaffron]

hi Guys

Mami weighs 22 kilos . Dr D said that her adrenal gland was 1.76 and he has started her on 10mg Vetoryl. Also he has given her Ursacol 300 mg once a day. She is also taking Pantorc 20 mg half a tablet every day, and Sucralfin half a tablet twice a day. He did not say why her kidney was large (I just assumed dut to Cushings) LOopts of sludge in her gut. I guess that is what Ursacol tablets are. I will look them up on line.

Carol

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carol,

I have taken the privilege of copying your post about your sweet girl in her thread here so members can offer sympathy and support at this difficult time.


hi
I am so sorry to hear about Koda. It never gets any easier when we loose our fur babies. I had a Cushings Chow girl Mami and she passed away on Thursday Aug 2nd. She was doing so well on her treatment and was looking fantastic as all her fur had grown back. Sadly on Thursday evening she had a massive Gastric Torsion and she was screaming in pain. We rushed her to the emergency vets and he examined her and gave her pain relief. Her stomach was completely twisted and huge. Her risks for an succesful operation were small and we made the heartrending decision to let her go to sleep. We did not want her to suffer any more, our other Chow girl Maddie keeps looking for her and we are all depressed. I know in time things will improve but for the moment its so hard.
I will put a photo of Mami on here when my spirits have lifted. Tale care xx

[molly muffin]

Oh I'm so sorry Carol. How very heartbreaking that is. :( My friend lost one of her dogs to Gastric Torsion. It is horrible for them.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[jmac]

I'm so sorry to hear about Mami's passing. I'm glad she is no longer in any pain.

Julie & Hannah