Trying to help a friend (possible calcinosis cutis)

[4Vicki]

Hi all: Brand new here & looking for help for a friend who doesn't have a computer.

She has a 10 yo Boston Terrier who has had Cushings for a while. Her vet kept telling her that she didn't have Cushings & I was concerned because I thought her symptoms sure sounded like Cushings. I'm not a vet tech or anything like that but I have read a lot about dogs & various diseases. I started doing research because poor Vicki was breaking out w/those lump (calcinosis cutis?????) & she was getting worse by the day. Finally, a different vet diagnosed Cushings (rah rah)!

Now she's on Vetoryl but because this has gone undiagnosed for so long, her skin is in really bad shape. There are some meds she can't take because she has problems w/dry eyes so antihistamines are out. She keeps calling & asking me what she should use on her topically & I just plain don't know. Looked around on the internet but only can find info on hot spots, not calcinosis cutis (that's a real mouthful, huh?) She's using something for hot spots which her vet said was fine (sorry, can't remember what it is right now) but she said it isn't working.

I decided to come to the experts..........:D

Does anyone have any ideas? Any input would be greatly appreciated & I will pass it on.

Thanks.....

[Sabre's Mum]

Welcome ... and what a good friend you are!

Our Hungarian Vizsla had calcinosis cutis and was treated with Lysodren.

We tried to keep infections down and to keep the areas dry. Things we used were:
• Medicated Shampoos (this did not work for Sabre as it just made the areas more red and inflamed)
• Oatmeal Shampoos
• Antibiotics when infections looked likely – here we found that we could get away with cheaper antibiotics.
• Betadine
• A t-shirt or jacket (depending on the weather)

Here is a recent link to a thread which has some info on calcinosis cutis. http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3765

Angela

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

How nice of you to try to help your friend. We have members who have dealt with Calcinosis Cutis and I am sure they will all be along soon to relate their experiences.

I am so glad you found us!:)
addy

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for having a compassionate heart and wanting to help Vicki. Calcinosis Cutis can be very difficult to resolve and you have already heard from our resident expert, Angela. As she mentioned, her Sabre treated with lysodren, which may be a better choice of treatment for dogs with calcinosis cutis. Dr. David Bruyette, one of our country's reknown veterinary endocrine specialist, stated in one of his lectures that his facility (VCA West Los Angeles) has not had good luck with resolving the calcinosis cutis in dogs being treated with Vetoryl (Trilostane). VCA West Los Angeles treats hundreds of dogs with cushing's so they have lots of experience under their belt. If your friend's vet is out of suggestions, you may want to ask her to ask the vet to contact Dr. Bruyette to discuss Vicki's case.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/west-los-angeles

[4Vicki]

Many thanks for your helpful suggestions. I have some reading to do on that thread to see if I can find help for her.......I did look around before I posted but I missed that thread......:rolleyes:

I have a Lab w/allergies so this is why I'm always researching something on the internet having to do w/dogs, allergies, diseases, etc. etc. & why she always comes to me for help.

Last vet just put her on a/b because the mess on her skin is getting infected. She also said she cut up a T shirt & put that on w/an E collar to try to keep her away from it.

I will keep reading all over this forum to see if I can come up w/some suggestions for her........& many thanks from her too. She is a nervous wreck right now (plus her mother is in a nursing home & not doing too well) so my heart really goes out to her. I just don't know what to tell her to do!!!!!!! I thought if I could find something to make Vicki more comfortable, that would lessen her stress just a tad.

Thank you for the nice welcome.........

[4Vicki]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for having a compassionate heart and wanting to help Vicki. Calcinosis Cutis can be very difficult to resolve and you have already heard from our resident expert, Angela. As she mentioned, her Sabre treated with lysodren, which may be a better choice of treatment for dogs with calcinosis cutis. Dr. David Bruyette, one of our country's reknown veterinary endocrine specialist, stated in one of his lectures that his facility (VCA West Los Angeles) has not had good luck with resolving the calcinosis cutis in dogs being treated with Vetoryl (Trilostane). VCA West Los Angeles treats hundreds of dogs with cushing's so they have lots of experience under their belt. If your friend's vet is out of suggestions, you may want to ask her to ask the vet to contact Dr. Bruyette to discuss Vicki's case.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/west-los-angeles

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this. I think we were posting at the same time so I didn't see your post until I finished mine.

My friend heard somewhere that lysodren is a very harsh med & is very harmful to the dog so my guess is she told the vet she refused to put her dog on it. I don't know that for a fact but she did tell me that she would not allow Vicki to take that lysodren. I researched that also & found good & bad about it. I will go to that website you gave me & if need be, print it out & drive over to her house later.

Again, many thanks to all of you..........my friend will be very grateful for your help. I already told her that I'm no expert.:confused:

[Sabre's Mum]

I should add to my first post .... it takes time!! It took probably about 4 to 6 months before we had everything sorted with Sabre. He not only had the calcinosis cutis but had lost a lot of hair .... more lumps would come up and he would lose more hair. So we controlled the calcinosis cutis ... areas healed up..... the hair grew back once the scabs disappeared .... then it just remained there .... never being an issue for him. Most of Sabre's calcinosis cutis were more like "plates" of deposits ie some were 3cm x 5cm in size!

Angela

[4Vicki]

I do have one question........you mentioned Betadine. Exactly how do you use it? Just dab it on full strength or what? I always keep that in the house because it's wonderful stuff but wouldn't it stain a dog's coat???????

I have a feeling that the skin problem was allowed to fester for a little too long because it took so long to diagnose Cushings. It seems to me that I told her months ago that it sounded like Cushings to me but I'm certainly no expert.

I also don't think she's seeing a specialist, I think she's going to a regular vet. Do you think I should suggest she go to a specialist?

I printed out that thread where you were all giving another poster some helpful hints on calcinosis cutis. I will bring it over to her later on.

You are all wonderful........thank you.

[Sabre's Mum]

I am really trying to recall with the betadine ... to my recollection we just followed the instructions on the bottle. I suppose it would stain the coat but in Sabre's case he had little hair ... and his coat was "russet gold" ... near the colour of the betadine! At one stage we also used Epiotic to scuff the thickened skin off as well. A lot of it was trial and error. We did also add EPO (Evening Primrose Oil) to his diet.

We just used a regular vet as there is only one specialist clinic in the North Island (I also think this is the only clinic in NZ) ... yes we are a small country ... and they are VERY expensive! A lot of members here do use an IMS .... if her regular vet is what she is comfortable with .... and is knowlegable or willing to learn and listen about treating cushings and calcinosis cutis then I wouldn't rock the boat. Dr Bruyette, will do a phone consult with your vet so this may be helpful.

Calcinosis Cutis, although is a symptom of cushings, is not commonly seen and many vets have never seen a case before. This was the case of the vet who diagnosed Sabre .... and his next vet (changed due to the first vet only working part-time and she was not comfortable with treating a dog on Lysodren when she would not be available for me all the time) had only seen one previous case when she was practising in the UK.

The other comment I would make is that the dog's "cushings" needs to be controlled ie the dog's treatment must in range. How long has her dog been on the Vetoryl? Are her ACTH stim tests where they should be?

Angela

[4Vicki]

She was just diagnosed so she hasn't been on any meds but maybe two or three weeks, month at the very most. She was on a/b for a long time because of the skin problem & also because her kidney numbers were off. I hope that's accurate........this poor dog has had so many problems, I'm getting confused! The one vet that told her it was NOT Cushings was treating her for some kidney problem & also for the eruptions on her skin. This has been going on for a few months & the only thing I know that she's been giving her are a/b.

I can get any information for you that will help but she has been to so many different vets that I have lost count. She has spent so much money on testing but I honestly don't know which tests she has had. Far as I know, she has not seen a specialist for the Cushings. I can't speak for her as to why she's been changing vets a lot recently because she finds one she likes & then she calls me to tell me that she's been to yet another one. Maybe she has not been comfortable w/them, don't know.

She went to see my vet (very special man).....he told her that he felt the testing that was done up to that point was what he would have ordered. She was just looking for a second opinion. I think this was when she got the results for the kidneys but not sure if she had the skin problem then.

I have Betadine here........I'll check it out. Thought maybe you were doing something special w/it. Her dog has a lot of white but I haven't seen her so I don't know how much fur is left on her! I also don't know when she is scheduled to go back for another checkup. I don't imagine much has changed simply because she's just started on the meds. Most meds need a few months to "kick in".......

If there's anything specific you need to know, I can call her & find out for you. I still have to drop off that thread I printed.

(I hope I'm not giving you inaccurate info........this is all from memory & that is not one of my best assets........& each yr it gets much worse........:-)

[4Vicki]

Ok, here we go.......Janice (Vicki's humommie) just left & gave me a bunch of info. I also gave her that wonderful thread about the skin problem for which she was very grateful.

We're in So CA so she's going to call that VCA Hosp in West LA to see if they can recommend a vet down here that has worked a lot w/K9 Cushings.

Vicki has been on Vetoryl for approx a month, a higher dose was just prescribed about a week & a half ago (she wasn't sure what the dose is). The ACDH was 17.1, it was the liver enzymes that were high, not kidney (sorry), she had a skin biopsy to confirm the cal cutis, ultrasound of the liver & adrenal & that particular vet said everything looked ok.

She's on her third or fourth vet but would feel better if she found a vet who knows a lot more about Cushings than this present vet.

She said to thank all of you for your help.

So that's where we stand up to today........:D

[Skye]

i think the betadine....you can mix that with baby shampoo and make it a dark tea color do not put near face though. i will confirm.

[Skye]

baby shampoo and tea tree oil....medicated tea tree oil....
1 ml for every 8 ounces of shampoo
then shake really good.

this might work better............

[4Vicki]

Skye: Thanks for info on Betadine. Will pass it on.

[Sabre's Mum]

Thanks for all the info and the update. Things will become easier when the dog's ACTH stim post number is in the range required. It would be good for her to have one good vet or IMS treating her.

Angela

[Squirt's Mom]

Word of caution - be extremely careful with tea tree oil. It can have some awful effects. ;)

[4Vicki]

First of all, I guess it's ACTH........duh........goes to show what I know. I don't have a clue what that is but not sure it matters as I'm just the go-between.......:p

Also have no clue what IMS is.......sorry, you have to understand I'm flying blind here, so to speak........:confused:

This is why I turned to you........Janice only knows what the vet has told her & what I was able to find & print out from the internet. A while ago, I knew somebody who had a dog w/Cushings & this is why I recognized some of the symptoms when this all started w/Vicki. It's also why I kept telling her I thought it might be Cushings but her vet at that time said it was not. We both assumed that the vet knew better than me.........scary, huh?

She isn't sure that this new vet really knows all that much about this disease & I think she would be more comfortable if that place in LA knows of a good vet down here that's had experience w/K9 Cushings.

I think just knowing that Janice can call me & I can post her questions here has made her feel a lot better.

I bought tea tree oil a while ago & I must have read some kind of warning about it because I was afraid to use it (it's still unopened). I think I bought it for a recipe for an all-natural flea spray & I think it says you can add a couple of drops of tea tree oil. I do use that flea spray but I never did add the tea tree oil. Guess I need to do some reading about it.

My thanks again to all of you.:D

[Sabre's Mum]

Sorry ... IMS= internal medicine specialist.

Yes ... tea tree oil is extremely toxic. I used it a few times as a VERY diluted solution for an ear cleaner for Sabre as we did not want to use steriodal based ear drops - I think it was only like a drop or two in a large bowl of water. Personally I would not use it on calcinosis cutis.

Love your avatar pic!

Angela

[4Vicki]

I looked up ACTH but couldn't pronounce that one.........

I bought the tea tree oil simply because this flea spray recipe said to add a drop or two for a shiny coat. Then I read some warnings about it so I never added it.

Janice said she had heard some bad things about it also & wanted to stay away from it so that's out for treating Vicki.

The avatar is my baby girl (well, she's almost 7 yo so she's no longer a baby). Really wonderful dog & sweet as could be. I've been very lucky in that the worst of her medical problems have been her allergies. She is allergic to everything but air.......& even that I wonder about! I have learned so much about canine allergies, trust me.......:D

Vicki goes in for a recheck sometime soon so will let you know how that goes. Perhaps she may wind up going to a specialist if she can get a name from the place up north.

Just 'cause I'm nosy: what is a normal ACTH? Wondering how high Vicki's numbers are.

[Harley PoMMom]

Just 'cause I'm nosy: what is a normal ACTH? Wondering how high Vicki's numbers are.

What a beautiful girl you have there!

Some labs may be different but the "norms" for an ACTH for a "healthy dog" are pre draw: 1.0-5.0 ug/dl and post draw: 8.0-20.0 ug/dl.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Sabre's Mum]

I just wanted to add that a dog treated with Vetoryl should have a post draw between 1.45 and 5.4 mcg/dl. There are circumstances that it can be higher (ie post draw of 9.1) if symptoms are resolved. These are found on the product insert which you can find on the following link -
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185

Angela

[Skye]

i knew tea tree oil is not to be used on cats but if used correctly on dogs can benefit them....you can even buy dog and or human shampoos with that already in it, however i do not know the benefit it would bring for certain but have heard great healing properties from others in regards to it. BUT if the risk out weigh the pros then by all means i fully agree to NOT.
my sister has used tea tree oil mixed correctly with baby shampoo for over 12 years, and has loads of experience is many things including how to even hook up emergency IV's till animal is transported to vet. BUT that is her not us. i would only use it if knew without any doubt it was mixed correctly.

[4Vicki]

Thanks again to all of you for all of this information. I will have to do some research & reading about tea tree oil before I decide if I'm going to use it on my dog. Janice can decide what to do for Vicki.

I do remember hearing wonderful things about it & then I remember reading something that scared me so I never even opened the bottle.

I'm making some more flea spray tonight but for now will once again pass on the tea tree oil. (By the way, if anyone is interested, I can post that recipe........it works pretty slick & there are no chemicals of any kind in it. I'm into all natural stuff which is why I cook for my baby girl.)

I will print this thread w/all this nifty info for Janice.........so keep those handy dandy hints/tips/info coming..........

[Skye]

I love and respect Dr karen Becker...holistic vet in chicagos top ten best! this is sorta long clip...but at about 6:18 she says something about tea tree oils.
I understand there is risk if used incorrectly, HUGE risks, liver, kidneys, paralyze, death. By no means allow them to ingest it! and mix it properly. I personally would not use full strength on an animal ever. I know some people have put full strength right on to animal and i just cringe. some have suffered some have healed. Not worth the risk on that before trying other methods. But mixing diluting and such okay....as long as it is done properly. anyways here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1voV6BLr8U
you can jump to 6:18 to hear specific
and then part two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=MH6gjJHtUhM

[4Vicki]

Terrific video........I wrote down that Betadine rinse. That sounds like a great rinse for after a bath.

I had to chuckle.........when Dr. Becker was talking about the medicated dog shampoo w/tea tree oil it reminded me of something..........guess who has some of that.:rolleyes: That didn't bother me because I'm sure there's just a tiny amount but for now I think I'll make my flea spray w/o it until I've done more research.

You have a way of making a newbie feel very welcome........I just had to say that.......

[Skye]

i am thrilled that you feel welcomed here. This is greatest place ever with tons of experiences and knowledge. Not by any means vets and such, just lots of experiences and knowledge. the support, love and care is amazing, I can honestly and truly say from my heart i love and respect the angels here. known as the Cush angels. Remarkable amazing people. The passion, compassion is endless. People who truly care. Whatever the question, whatever the emotion your heart carries, the cush angels are here to always help. I hope that your flea spray receipe is posted, would love to have it, and hope your furbabies are doing awesome and i hope your friend is doing great and her furbaby is feeling better. give her cyber hugs for us!

[4Vicki]

I have to agree........I not only feel very welcome here but what a relief to find people w/knowledge & a willingness to help. I'm worried about my friend because she's got so much on her plate right now & I really don't know enough about Cushings to help her. Like I said before, just knowing that I can post a question here for her has taken a big load off her shoulders. And I thank you for that.

Should I post the flea spray recipe here or on another thread??????

[Squirt's Mom]

We have a section called Everything Else where you can post your flea recipe. I look forward to seeing it as we battle fleas and ticks in our area a LOT!

[mypuppy]

Hi Vicki,

Welcome to you. Unfortunately, I do not have anything valuable to add regarding calcinosis cutis, and am sorry your friend's furbaby has to endure it:(. I hope she find a good and effective treatment. Please keep us posted.

Warm regards,

Jeanette and Princess

ps: love your avatar pic btw, is that a chocolate lab? I love chocolate labs...haaaaaaaa....:D

[Harley PoMMom]

We have a wealth of information in our Helpful Resource Thread about Cushing's disease and other related material, please feel free to print out anything you think might be useful: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=10

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Cyn719]

Hi

Welcome - Isnt this forum great:) Its the best group of people I have met!! You ask something and they are there with tons of advice and support!! Glad you are so comfortable here -- will be looking forward to the flea recipe - my brother has a golden/lab with ton of skin issues and would be interested -- love the picture!!

hugs xo

[4Vicki]

Jeanette: Yes, she is a Choc Lab........I can see why you love them! Yuk yuk. Her name is Hannah, better known as Hannie Wan. Don't ask me where that came from but that's what I call her.

The flea spray recipe is now in Everything Else. Just posted. I have to make more today but I've had pretty good luck w/it. Sometimes in the summer if we are having an exceptionally bad flea month, I will put the drops on much as I hate to........but I can't stand to watch her scratch. Plus that, they get on me & that makes me mighty unhappy.

My friend, Janice, is the one who is the humommie to Vicki & why I started this thread in the first place. Never realized what a great group of people are here........but I know now........:D

I will continue to pass on info to her & as soon as there is any additional info on Vicki's condition, will post.

Thanks again to all of you.......

[4Vicki]

Janice called me because she got the results of the latest test. She gave me two numbers: flat 1.7 & post 2.6........the numbers are right but I wasn't sure if she did say flat & post. You already know that this is like another language to me!

Was also very surprised that she could go from 17 down to 1 or 2 in such a short period of time. Is that the norm????

She said the cal cutis doesn't appear to be spreading any more but it still looks really bad. Vet said he was going to order DMSO (I think that's what she said) to be applied topically. Again, foreign language.

I hope my dog never gets Cushings but if she does, I know where to go for help!!!!!!!!!

So that's where things stand for Vicki as of Friday.........

Thanks again for all of your input. Appreciate it.:D

[Squirt's Mom]

Some links on DSMO for you and Janice -

DSMO info

http://www.dmso.org/

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

http://www.herpes-coldsores.com/dmso.pdf

http://www.bevanpotter.com/DMSO_bp.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1124535

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1249191

http://books.google.com/books?id=CvHazimbX5oC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=dmso+and+calcinosis+cutis&source=bl&ots=DHk1CN2Ncd&sig=wrVXZXaL3D2IvLT-Xc7MIpwCmcs&hl=en&ei=VGvhTe_6Jsaltwf13bX9Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=dmso%20and%20calcinosis%20cutis&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=x6cI0h49OS8C&pg=PA549&lpg=PA549&dq=dmso+and+calcinosis+cutis&source=bl&ots=7YQpmfjybZ&sig=o0D3T-dA4HBxK5LWWRRsAViQdhg&hl=en&ei=VGvhTe_6Jsaltwf13bX9Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=dmso%20and%20calcinosis%20cutis&f=false

http://www.itchnot.com/images/_7_Endocrine_Alopecia.pdf

[4Vicki]

Thanks for all those links. I did try to get info for her because she doesn't know much about it either but I really couldn't find anything worthwhile.

Will check those links. She was most interested in how it's used, if there are any side effects........that kind of stuff.

Hope vet will instruct her in its use......:confused:

[Harley PoMMom]

J
Was also very surprised that she could go from 17 down to 1 or 2 in such a short period of time. Is that the norm????


We have seen many dog's cortisol get lowered significantly in a short amount of time. Could you remind us of the dosage of Vetoryl your friend's dog is on and the dog's weight?

Many dogs have had their cortisol drop even lower while on the same dosage, so please ask your friend to keep a watchful eye out for any adverse reactions of low cortisol.

You're such a special person and a very good friend to be helping your friend like this.

[4Vicki]

You're such a special person and a very good friend to be helping your friend like this.

Thank you for saying that. You are too kind........

Vicki is on 40 mg once a day.........she's a Boston Terrier & off hand I don't know how much she weighs. I can find out if you need that info. She's not fat or underweight, I think she's at a perfect weight for her size if that helps........but I also haven't seen her since all this has happened to her.

What are the "adverse reactions" of low cortisol so I can tell her?

Thanks again for all the great tips.

[Harley PoMMom]

The initial starting dose of Vetoryl/Trilostane is based on the dog's weight. UC-Davis recommends a starting dose of Vetoryl/Trilostane at 1mg per kg of a dog's weight. Dr. Tim Allen, who was a vet tech from Dechra's Kansas office, verbally was recommending a starting dose of Vetoryl at 1mg per pound. If you could find out your friend's dog weight that would really help us.

Adverse reactions are, but not limited to: lethargy, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, and/or a dog just not acting like him/herself. If any adverse reactions are seen, the Vetoryl/Trilostane should be stopped and an ACTH stimulation test and the checking of the electrolytes should be performed.

[4Vicki]

I just called Janice: 20 lbs. That's what I thought but I wasn't sure so I didn't want to give you incorrect info.

If this is the case (not sure if it's 1 mg per kg or lb), sounds to me like 40 mg is kind of a high dose.........ya think? I will have to give her info on low cortisol because she may just have that problem, esp if this is too much for her.

I don't want to scare her but if this dosage is too high, I will print out the info on low cortisol so she can watch for that. This is why I wish she'd go to a specialist but they are expensive around here.......

[labblab]

Vicki has been on Vetoryl for approx a month, a higher dose was just prescribed about a week & a half ago (she wasn't sure what the dose is). The ACDH was 17.1, it was the liver enzymes that were high, not kidney (sorry), she had a skin biopsy to confirm the cal cutis, ultrasound of the liver & adrenal & that particular vet said everything looked ok.

You posted your reply above on 1-27, so it sounds as though Vicki was on a lower dose for about 2 1/2 weeks, and was then increased to this higher dose of 40 mg. which she has been taking for 3-4 weeks? Does that sound about right? If so, a post-ACTH result of 2.7 sounds like a good result -- right in the middle of the desired ideal therapeutic range between 1.45 - 5.4 ug/dl. And if she has already been on this higher dose for nearly a month, it is more likely that this is a good dose for her to remain on -- assuming she is behaving normally with none of those problems that Lori spoke about.

It is true that the Dechra technical reps have recommended an initial starting formula of approx. 1 mg. per pound. But that is just a starting point and dogs of any size can end up needing to be dosed with higher or lower amounts. The "proof of the pudding" is really the ACTH monitoring testing and the manner in which the dog is behaving. So from what you've told us, it sounds as though there was a reason why Vicki's initial dose was increased (maybe that's when the ACTH was approx. 17? -- if so, that's too high for a Cushpup being treated with trilostane), and that the 40 mg. dose has now lowered her cortisol into the desired range. And what with the calcinosis cutis, I'm guessing her vet was anxious to lower her cortisol as rapidly as was safely possible.

Lori is right that dogs can continue to require dosing changes throughout the time they remain on trilostane. So it will be important for your friend to always mention any physical or behavioral changes to the vet. But from what you've told us so far, it sounds as though this is curently a good dose for Vicki. :)

Marianne

[4Vicki]

Marianne:

You're right & you probably have the time frame about right too. I didn't write down any of this, just posted as I heard it from Janice. I know she was on a low dose twice a day & this new vet upped the dose to 40 mg once a day..........not sure what the first dose was.

As of a day or so ago, when Janice called me w/new results, she said Vicki was back to her old self which she hasn't seen for some time now so she's thrilled. I will tell her about the signs of low cortisol just in case.

When she comes over here, I sit her down in front of my computer & let her go thru all these informative posts. If she wants anything printed, I print it for her.

I would want somebody to help me if my dog were sick & I didn't have a computer. God, I'd be so lost w/o this thing! Plus that, Janice is always coming over here w/the really good dog food for Hannah to thank me for the time I spend doing research for her. I told her not to do that but it falls on deaf ears.........she's really a neat person & absolutely loves that little dog.

You know that old saying..........do unto others..........

[labblab]

That is wonderful that you and Janice share such a special friendship!

You may already have seen this, but the link below may be one of the most important things you could print off for Janice. It is the Product Insert for Vetoryl (brandname trilostane), and even though a lot of it sounds pretty technical, it contains a whole lot of useful information regarding dosing, monitoring, side effects, etc.

http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf

I think Janice will find it really helpful!
Marianne

[4Vicki]

Thanks for the link.......printed it out for her. I also found a really good article called "Cortisol for Dogs" & it goes all thru what it is, what it does & how you can tell if it's low or high. Also, very easy to read (no huge medical terms)........printed that out too.

She must have a huge binder by now w/all the stuff I have printed for her. However, both of us know a little more about Cushings than we did a few months ago!

Will keep you up to date on her condition.

Janice & Vicki say thank you too!!:D

[4Vicki]

Hi Everyone:

I'm Janice, humommie to Vicki.......& I want to thank you for your time & your help responding to all my concerns for my Vicki.

You'll never know how much I appreciate all the tips & info I've gotten from all of you.

I hope your pets are doing well.

Lots of love,

Janice & Vicki........:D

[4Vicki]

Thanks for that info, Marie. Just so happened that Janice was here yesterday when I found your post. There's a Costco close to us so that's good to know.

She's going to see a specialist & see what she recommends for Vicki. I think the info she got from her vet about Lysodren has made her a little uncomfortable.

Will post more info when I have it........:cool:

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Janice (humommie to Vicki) and welcome.

I guess that 4Vicki has loaded you with lots of info to keep you busy reading for a while! Keep up the good work with your treatment of Vicki.

Angela and Flynn

[marie adams]

Hi There,

I was reading about the tree tea oil and not finding any shampoo's with it in it. Trader Joe's has a shampoo I have been using on my Aussie puppy who is almost 11 months old and she doesn't seem to have any reactions to it so far. I have to use this because she seems to be allergic to grains and oatmeal is a grain. I read this somewhere on the internet to use this kind of shampoo and TJ's has it the cheapest. I did see some at Petco, but I think it was a designer brand pet shampoo and 3x as expensive.

Hope this helps.

[4Vicki]

I'll show your posts to Janice when she stops by again. She really feels so indebted to all of you........me too!

Marie: I'm fairly close to a TJs........could you tell me what shampoo you are using so I can check it out? Janice is looking for something that she can use on Vicki. She used one oatmeal shampoo but it had other stuff in it & it didn't agree w/her. She didn't tell me exactly what happened but that's what she said.

My Hannah has very sensitive skin & the best shampoo I've found for her is Nova Pearls for sensitive skin. Don't think that would be good for skin problems but it sure works great for sensitive skin.

I guess it's all trial & error.:confused:

[lulusmom]

I've copied your post from your thread entitled "Is Lysodren a Thing of the Past" to here, your original thread, so that everybody knows that Janice is taking Vicki to a specialist. See post #45 above. That's great news and I'll be looking forward to hearing all about her appointment.

[4Vicki]

I've copied your post from your thread entitled "Is Lysodren a Thing of the Past" to here, your original thread, so that everybody knows that Janice is taking Vicki to a specialist. See post #45 above. That's great news and I'll be looking forward to hearing all about her appointment.

Thanks for doing that.........I didn't even notice it.......duh!

As soon as I get more info from Janice, will post.

Thanks again to all for your great tips & handy dandy info.:)

[4Vicki]

Janice saw a specialist (IMS) yesterday.

Not a whole lot of info except he thought everything looked good (she had all her test results). He didn't mean the skin because I guess her skin is a real mess & it has spread a little. He did advise her against using DMSO & wanted her to stay on Vetoryl. J had contacted the manufacturer to get some info & was told that the liquid is not as stable as the pills & therefore not as effective on cal cutis. She asked him & he said he would do some research on that & get back to her. He did a blood test to check liver enzymes (I believe that's what she said) & that's pretty much it.

She's using Vetericyn topically & he said that was fine. He didn't give her any recommendations for shampoo. (I read somewhere that Etiderm was good for cal cutis but she told me it has fragrance so she won't use it........not sure why.)

So that's the scoop as of today.........plus I didn't want you to think I had gone away.........nope, I'm "lurking".........:eek:

Happy Wednesday.......

[jackiev]

Hi :) I've been following this thread because my little guy has calcinosis cutis and is also on vetoryl. I'm not an expert on any of this, Ugga was only diagnosed 2 weeks ago but I did want to tell you I bathed him twice and both times it was disastrous. The first time, I used a lavender based shampoo (supposed to be good for skin conditions) and the second, I used a fragrance-free oatmeal shampoo. I've decided not to wash him again until his skin has healed, it just caused him way too much discomfort. My vet said it could take a month or two before we really start to see improvement in Ugga's skin. Anyway, I just thought I'd pass that on. It's so nice of you to help your friend out by coming here :) Have a great night!
~Jackie

[Harley PoMMom]

Thanks for the update on Vicki. And please, please lurk all you want! ;):)

[4Vicki]

Jackie: Glad you're following this thread........hope some of this helps you w/your little one. It must be heartbreaking to see your little fur baby all broken out & probably uncomfortable. I think Janice told me that when she tried to bathe Vicki, it made things worse so now I think she's afraid to use anything on her. None of the vets have any great recommendations either.

If she has success w/something, I will post it so maybe I can help another little fur baby.

Many yrs ago, Hannah (my Lab) had a yeast infection on her belly & I know what I went thru to get rid of that. Had never even heard of it in dogs until she broke out big time. Live and learn.......:rolleyes:

Harley PoMMom: I'll be the resident lurker.......tee hee :D

[Skye]

lol resident lurker......its sorta nice how were all checking in and reading over things on each other.........nice knowing your not alone.......someone is nearly always there. see us peeking around the little icons.......or over the top, lol. thank you for the smile.

[4Vicki]

Stormee: Glad I made you smile........I do hang around here from time to time to see what's going on. Breaks my heart that all these humommies & daddies have to go thru all this, not to mention what the little fur babies go through.

That's why I try to make people laugh..........a little humor is good for the soul........

Will post again when I hear back from Janice as to how Vicki is doing & whether or not there's any news (believe the IMS ran some tests). I would guess the news must be good because she hasn't called me!

I'll continue to be the resident lurker.........:eek:

Hugs to all from me & Hannah.........xoxoxoxoxoxo.

[4Vicki]

Not a whole lot to tell but I want to keep you posted as to what's going on w/Vicki.

Janice said the specialist called & said everything looked good (the tests he ran) but she told me that her skin looked really bad & she suspected an infection. So off she goes to a dermatologist that she had been to before & really liked. Yup, she had an infection so now she's back on a/b.

This vet does not agree w/the specialist & said she has had some good results w/DMSO so she gave her a small amount & told her to try it. She said it varies from dog to dog but some have had a lot of success w/it in treating cal cutis. Janice said Vicki's skin is beyond disgusting & it still appears to be spreading. I can tell she's really at her wit's end. I think I would be too.

I'll find out how the DMSO worked out when she calls again.

And you thought the resident lurker was gone..........:p

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Vicki

Thanks for the update. I believe that DSMO is a little controversial as a treatment of calcinosis cutis .... my guess is more what it is made of ... than the actual use on the calcinosis cutis. But, from what I read a few years ago, there were good results with it.

Angela and Flynn

[kimlouise]

Try an australian product called Lucas paw paw ointment. In a small red tube.

I accidentally put my hand down on a red hot stove top and my fingers stuck to it, left some fingerprints on the stove actually, needed pain relief before going to hospital for morphine, cold iced water, did nothing for pain, paw paw took pain away within five minutes, didnt need to go to hospital, amazing.

Use it on my dogs skin and it is very good and soothing.
If you cant find some I would be happy to buy a tube and post it over. Hope this helps, Charlottes mum.Kimx

[4Vicki]

Hi Angela: Seems like DMSO is controversial even among vets! One vet tells Janice not to use it & the next one tells her to use it. So she decided it's worth a try because what she's using isn't doing diddly squat. When she called, she had just seen the dermatologist for the infection & tried the DMSO once. So we'll see.........:confused:

Kim: Thank you so much for your kind offer. All I can say is "ouch"! Actually, there would be a few other words but I can't say them here.:D Putting your hand on a red hot stove? Damn..........

Because I am posting for a friend of mine, I would have to run it by her. She is really nervous about putting anything on Vicki's skin because the cal cutis is so bad. Now it's infected so I'm sure she won't be willing to try anything new, at least for a while.........

[lauraperla]

Hi there,
I can appreciate vicki would now be reluctant to try anything new so perhaps something to bank for future reference would be neem oil. I've used it on dogs and horses, it's very effective on skin conditions and its also a good insect repellant. It does have a curious smell, a nutty garlicky pong like a bad cook had experimented with a dip recipe, but the pong soon subsides. For a period of time I was using it regularly on one of the horses sweetitch lesions and as well as sorting that out it also helped my own contact dermatitis considerably.
Best of luck, hope Vicki starts seeing some good progress soon xxx

[4Vicki]

I wanted to bump this up rather than starting a whole new thread. I just talked to Janice & she asked me to thank all of you for your help during a very stressful time for her. I haven't talked to her in ages so I had no updates for you until today.

Vicki is doing great. She's still on the same meds but she said she just stopped the DMSO (or whatever that stuff is). Her hair is growing back & she has no new outbreaks, hasn't for quite a while. Said she has some hard areas on her skin (maybe where the bad outbreaks were, don't know for sure) but she looks better. She's also acting like her old self so it looks like she's stable, at least for now.

My thanks to all of you for being so kind & so helpful. I hope all of you & all your sweet furkids are doing well.:D

[Sabre's Mum]

What a fabulous update on Vicki .... Janice must be so happy. It is great that the calcinosis cutis has basically halted. Sabre also had hard areas as well ... in fact most of his calcinosis cutis never erupted to heal with new skin .... they just remained there.

Thanks so much for popping back and giving us this wonderful news.

Angela and Flynn

[4Vicki]

I thought I'd tack another post onto this thread so you can check back on Vicki's history if you need to.........this time it isn't very good news.

Janice called me..........sometime during the night Vicki was attempting to stand up & couldn't seem to get her legs under her. She was craning her neck to look up at the ceiling & would sometimes flop down on her back. She went to emergency & they ran some tests (thought she might have a blood clot in her lung, negative) but they couldn't find a reason to cause her to have seizures or a stroke perhaps? She said something about them finding protein in her urine.

Janice took her home after spending hrs at emergency & today she's walking albeit very shaky, she's panting like crazy & her tongue is sticking out (like she can't pull it back in). She is just acting really bizarre. She is seeing a specialist in the morn but I've been all over the internet to see if I can find what this might be to try to calm Janice down tonight. I know all of you can relate. She loves that dog & it's just killing her to watch this.

I decided if anyone would know what's going on it would be you. You were such a blessing to Janice before. So far I have found nothing so I'm turning to all of you once again......

Nothing has changed in her meds & she did stop the DMSO a while ago. It seems somewhere on here I remember seeing something about Cushings & seizures.

Janice is a wreck & now she has me all upset.........anyone know what this might be & if there is anything she can do tonight for that poor dog?

Thanking you in advance (again).........

[StarDeb55]

This doesn't really sound like a low cortisol episode, but did the ER clinic check Vicki's cortisol level? It's usually the first thing to look at when a Cushbaby becomes ill. If they didn't do an ACTH, my guess would be that the specialist will probably want to do one tomorrow.

Debbie

[4Vicki]

I honestly don't know.........she did mention the blood clot & the protein. I do know that they wanted her to leave Vicki so they could do more tests but she didn't want to leave her. She wanted to see her regular vet but he called & told her that she needs to see a specialist. So that's where she's going in the morn.

I was just wondering if there was any info I could share to make her feel a little better until she sees the vet in the morn. I don't know a thing about Cushings so I really can't help her.

Just when it looked like she was doing great........:(

[frijole]

I couldn't really tell from your description if its cortisol or not either.. normally cush dogs whose cortisol is too low cannot get up (like you mentioned) but they have zero energy - literally like they are dead or dying - no energy to even raise their head.

Since your friend isn't going in until the morning - does she have prednisone on hand? It is given in emergency situations to dogs on trilostane. She should have it as well as emergency instructions. It would not hurt to try giving it to see if it provides relief. She would know within an hour or two if it worked at raising the cortisol.

Kim

[labblab]

I definitely understand where Kim is coming from, but one problem with giving prednisone tonight is that it would mess up an ACTH test in the morning if that's what the specialist wants to have done. So unless there is a definite reason to give prednisone tonight, I don't believe I would do so. I would think (hope) the ER vets already would have made a decision about giving prednisone if they thought it would be helpful.

I'm so sorry Vicki is having such trouble. And I'm afraid I don't have any ideas as to what is going on, so the visit to the specialist will be really important.

Marianne

[frijole]

Marianne, I thought about that too... I guess I'd have to see the dog to determine if I thought it was the cortisol or not and whether or not I was concerned it was an emergency.

Sorry we can't be more help to your friend. Kim

[4Vicki]

My thanks to all of you. Don't want to suggest pred if it's going to screw up any of her testing tom'w. She's seeing the spec at 9:30. I remember she did mention that they gave Vicki a shot before she left emergency to make her more comfortable so that could have been pred. I'm not sure Janice knew what they gave her but I'm sure it's on her receipt.

I thought maybe there was something about the way she's acting that means something.........because it means nothing to me. My searches around the internet didn't give me anything either.

I just called & talked to Janice's husband..........he said Janice was at the vet & I freaked: he said it wasn't anything, that she left one of Vicki's meds there when they were there earlier & she had to go get it. I asked if Vicki was better & he said no.

As soon as I know any more about what's going on, will let you know. Not sure if she'll know anything tom'w if there's testing that needs to be done but I'll be back when I know something.

Again, my thanks to all of you. You are that beacon of light out there on a dark, dreary night!

[StarDeb55]

I'm making a wild guess, here. I bet the injection may have been dexamethasone which is a steroid replacement, but it will not interfere with an ACTH like pred will.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

Just throwing this out there but I wonder if Vestibular disease could be the culprit???

[Sabre's Mum]

I am sorry to hear the latest on Vicki ... as you said ... she was doing so well. I can't add anything more to what others have said. Let's hope that the specialist can give Janice some answers.

Take care
Angela and Flynn

[4Vicki]

Just a quick update: neurologist found nothing, absolutely nothing.

Suspect a couple of things: that Vicki may have hurt her back & she was panting due to pain........also why she was doing strange stretches & craning of the neck. Other thought is a tumor on the pituitary that may be growing & causing problems. Janice didn't want to get an MRI so this is just a guess.

That's all I know. She's on valium & some pain med & appears to be much better today.

Thanks again to all of you..........sorry I bothered you because it doesn't appear this is related to Cushings............duh!:rolleyes:

[Harley PoMMom]

Please do not ever feel you are "bothering" us, we are so happy to help in any way we can.

Thanks so much for keeping us updated as we so appreciate it.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

My friend, Brenda, has a little Maltese who had an episode almost identical to Vicki's. It looked like the start of a seizure and then he started craning his neck to one side and it stuck that way. I took quite a while for him to be able to right his head. The vet felt as if he may have had a seizure and when he tensed up he pulled something in his neck or pinched a nerve. He cried for two days but the meds finally kicked in and brought him some relief. He was panting like crazy too but the vet expected that was because he was in so much pain I've been there, done that and I'm sure Moe was a lot braver than I. If Vicki is coming around on the valium, I suspect she may have pulled a muscle and pinched a nerve as well. Moe doesn't have cushing's so a macrotumor is a non issue. If Janice would like to commiserate with Brenda, I can arrange it. Brenda lost her precious cushdog over a year ago to cancer so she is no stranger to cushing's either. Just let me know.

Glynda

[4Vicki]

My friend, Brenda, has a little Maltese who had an episode almost identical to Vicki's. It looked like the start of a seizure and then he started craning his neck to one side and it stuck that way. I took quite a while for him to be able to right his head. The vet felt as if he may have had a seizure and when he tensed up he pulled something in his neck or pinched a nerve. He cried for two days but the meds finally kicked in and brought him some relief. He was panting like crazy too but the vet expected that was because he was in so much pain.

Glynda

Thanks for posting that..........it sure does sound the same. The way it was described to me, I thought it was a stroke. Then Lori mentioned vestibular disease..........when I read a few articles on that, that sure sounds a lot like it too. My first thought was a stroke because (normally) when a dog has a seizure, he comes out of it in a few minutes. Even the neurologist didn't have a clue.

The valium & pain meds are helping because, as of last night, Vicki was doing a lot better. TG. I thought this was it.

Janice is a really shy, quiet person so I don't think she'd be one to want to talk this over w/somebody she doesn't know. Thanks for the offer though.

All of you have been wonderful to me & a huge help to Janice. You are a very special group of people.......

[ittree]

I have a pit that was recently diagnosed, and he got a staph infection from the open wounds. Trizchlor 4 seems to be helping alot. I give him a bath in it about every other day, as well as spray the open sores 3 times a day. Going to start using DMSO tonight as my vet thinks it will help. Wish us luck!