New - Need Help

[jorjann]

First let me thank anyone who reads this for taking the time to care. I have three small terriers, Benji (12 yrs), Emma (5 yrs), and Skye (1 yr). Benji has been having increased thrist, urination, and skin problems and we just had blood work that showed increased liver enzymes. The dr. suspects Cushings but put hin on Marin supplements and Science Diet G/D, for 2 months and then will repeat blood work and if necessary a series of tests for Cushings. About 2 yrs ago Emma came to us from the humane society and brought with her a host of nasty respiratory ailments. Benji got sick and it nearly killed him. Ever since then his lungs have not been great and he is prone to coughing and laryngitis. I am thinking of putting Benji down without going through all the medical tests. Here are my reasons. He is a nervous wreck at the vets, shakes, trembles, hides, and when he is getting anything done he sort of goes catatonic. Stiff as a board. It is so stressful for him. Secondly, he is not a happy-go-lucky little man - - he is nervous anyway, doesn't want to be petted or touched, lunges at the other dogs. He is coughing now, sometimes all night (and he sleeps with us). I work, my husband works, and my elderly mother is now living with us. Treating Cushings may be more than what I want Benji to endure, and more than I think I can handle. Putting your pet down has to be the most painful decision. I let my little Jack Russell terrier deteriorate far beyond what I should have because I couldn't bear to part with her. She was the love of my life. It wasn't until she was walking into walls and experiencing heartbreaking dementia that I made that terrible decision to help her leave this life. Benji is my man. I love him dearly - - but I don't want to put him through constant blood tests, vet visits, medications w/ side effects --- and quite possibly years of that. If he were a happier little fellow and our life situation were different, I might give it a go. But I would be doing it for me.
I'm looking for support. Please don't be critical. I'd like to hear any success stories - - - but it looks like Cushings goes in only one direction. The only difference is whether it is slow or fast.
Thank you for reading and thank you for your understanding.

[mytil]

Hi and welcome to our site. I am very sorry your little man is having these troubles and am glad that he was one of those lucky pups who had someone care so much about him. No one is here to judge you but there will be lots of helpful suggestions.

Firstly there is a simple non-stressful and inexpensive test that can be performed to rule out cushing's - a UC/CR test - Urinary Cortisol: Creatinine Ratio. Urine samples are taken in the morning (at home) and taken to the vet. Please ask your vet about it.

Is your boy on any medication for his coughing? possibly steroid based? I ask because this can cause cushing's symptoms (a condition called Iatrogenic Cushing's) caused by treatment with corticosteroids.

Keep us posted.
Terry

[labblab]

Welcome from me, too. As Terry has said, I hope you will not feel judged by anyone here. I believe that we can be most helpful to you by throwing out different thoughts and questions for your own consideration. And then you will be better armed to make the decision you feel is best for Benji and your family.

In my own mind, Cushing's treatment revolves around quality of life. In some cases, surgery can offer the potential for a total cure (for dogs suffering from adrenal tumors or for a few dogs with pituitary tumors who are located near centers offering some new, cutting-edge procedures). But the majority of dogs have pituitary Cushing's, and this is a disease that is managed rather than cured. The good news is that the symptoms of Cushing's can be successfully resolved through medication, and dogs can live out their normal lifespans with an excellent quality of life. We have heard many, many success stories that bear witness to this possibility. But lots of times, those folks don't remain here on the forum after their dogs are stabilized. That is because they are moving on with their normal lives.

However, some dogs do have a harder time becoming stable on the meds. The trick is, there is no way to predict in advance who will have more or less problems. I am glad that Terry asked you about steroid use with Benji, because the steroids could actually be causing the Cushing's symptoms. If he is not using supplemental steroids, one possible downside for him is that his respiratory problems might actually worsen if he does currently have elevated cortisol from Cushing's and treatment effectively lowers the level. In essence, you may be removing the steroid treatment that his body is already supplying. But again, there is no way to know that without trying.

I feel as though I do understand your reservations about putting Benji through a lot of medical procedures and vet visits. My own Cushpup was terrified at the vet's, hated being separated from us, and had already been through a lot of testing and procedures before his Cushing's was ever diagnosed. We did medicate him successfully for several months, but he ultimately developed a complication that would have involved intensive in-facility radiation treatment (his pituitary tumor was enlarging). His own disposition and personality was a factor in our decision to release him rather than trying the radiation.

However, I do pay a price for that decision. On my bad days, I still wonder "what if?" It is a burden that I chose to bear, and I believe I would make the same decision again. But I want you to know that you do have options. You can proceed with the diagnostic testing (as Terry says, the first step can be a really simple urine test that can rule out the disease). If further testing indicates that Benji does have Cushing's, you can give the medication a chance. There is nothing hard about administering it -- just giving pills or capsules. There is indeed monitoring testing involved, but Benji may be one of those dogs who stabilizes quickly and thus, the monitoring blood test is needed -- at most -- four times a year. At any step of the way, you can always halt. If Benji's breathing actually worsens, or if he has a hard time with the medicine, you can always rethink things. But you would be eliminating the demon of "what if," because you would have given treatment a chance.

As you can see, of course I am writing from the bias of my own experience. And I will not judge you if you decide that even the testing is not in Benji's best interest. But I'm guessing you are wanting to hear from those of us who have real-life experiences to offer. So these are my own thoughts. :o

Whatever you decide, best wishes to you and Benji, and I am really glad you've found us.

Marianne

[Lady's mom]

I also have some experience with what you're dealing with, and my heart hurts for you. Roscoe did not have Cushing's, but he suffered from asthmatic bronchitis for many, many years, brought on by changes in the weather, pollen and leaf mold. We went through a variety of rx's, some worked part of the time but not all the time. Some didn't work at all.

I finally found a combo I could live with, and help him be more comfortable, but can't remember what they were now. I do know the one thing that helped the most was a human rx cough med - hydro-something-or-other. It's liquid, and easy to judge the dosage. I could deal with his blindness and deafness as long as we could control the cough. He was my constant companion for over 14 years, and I could not bear the thought of letting him go. But I would not have burdened him - and me - with lots of trips to the vet and poking him with needles, etc. It would have exacerbated his asthma, and made it hard to control any of his problems.

One morning about 3AM (it was normal to be up with him several times a night) as I watched him try to find his way up the back stairs, coughing and wheezing all the time, my heart broke and I screamed in anguish "We can't do this anymore." And I knew it was time. After he passed, I felt a great peace that we had ended "our" suffering, because it was just that for all of us.

But God, I still miss him so.....

[jorjann]

Thank you for responding. Your kindness and stories moved me to tears. We give Benji 5 mg of Torbutrol before bed for the cough. It seems to work pretty well, but I've been trying to give it only as needed. Some nights he doesn't cough at all, but last night it was fairly frequent. The cough is dry and sounds like he's trying to expel something lodged in his throat. Terry, thank you for the recommendation on the urine test. That is a good place to start. It is helpful to read the experiences of others because it give me hope and is so encouraging. Will write more later, heading back to work. Also, my little JRT had the adrenal tumor form of Cushings. She had surgery at UF and recovered amazingly well. Thank you again.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Benji! :)

I so wish there was someone here who could tell you, "Do this." and that would be the correct thing to do. But unfortunately we can't do that. But here is what we can do....

We can share with you our stories, both successes in treating Cushing's and the sorrows we bear because we have had to make "the decision" for our own babies for whatever reason.

We can offer ideas and suggestions that might help Benji whether you decide to pursue the Cushing's or not. For example, has his heart been checked lately? The coughing could easily be from congestion in the heart and meds could help.

We can listen you no matter what you feel you need to talk about. We have strong shoulders, soft arms, loving hearts, and empathy beyond compare. We can laugh with you and cry with you.

We can support you regardless of the path you choose to walk. You know your sweet boy better than anyone else and it is obvious he is dearly loved so no decisions you make out of this love can be wrong. We will walk each step with you. You and Benji will never be alone.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Some nights he doesn't cough at all, but last night it was fairly frequent. The cough is dry and sounds like he's trying to expel something lodged in his throat.

My non-cush pup, Bear, has a cough also. His cough sounds like a "goose honking" and is caused by his trachea being collapsed. Bear takes Hycodan and Terbutaline, the Terbutaline is given BID and the Hycodan is given when needed. These meds have helped tremendously with his cough.

A cough can be a symtpom of a heart issue has Benji's heart been checked?

Please know we are here for you and will help in any way we can.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Lady's mom]

Hycodan was what Roscoe took, along with chlorpheneramine and one other one.

[mytil]

Just checking to see how things are going.

Terry

[jmac]

Hi-
I just wanted to mention one thing. My 12 year-old Shih Tzu, Hannah, was diagnosed last March. She is in otherwise pretty good health, but my vet noticed her very high Alk Phosphate levels and asked if she was drinking and urinating more. She was (but not excessively) so I had him do the blood test for Cushing's. Hannah's symptoms have come and gone, and sometimes we wonder if she does for sure have Cushing's. I have not done the UCCR test, but think I will someday when we have some extra money laying around (that isn't already needed at the vet for other things). Anyway, that test can rule out Cushing's if it is negative. You could start there, since you collect the urine at home and just bring it to the vet. It wouldn't cause stress for Benji.

If you do decide to test, and Benji does indeed have Cushing's, you could try Anipryl. It works for some dogs, and is very easy and there are no scary side effects. I just gave her a pill once a day. I didn't notice a huge change in her symptoms, but again they weren't that bad, so we tried going off it to see if things changed. The only real change we noticed was her ALK Phos creeping up again. Now she is on Denamarin liver supplements to see if that will bring the ALK Phos down.

I just wanted to mention the Anipryl in case you want to try something. My vet said that was a good place to start when the symptoms were not bad and it was not causing the dog or the owner a problem.

One more thing...my parents had a dog with a cough and it turned out she had a tumor in her lungs. The cough got progressively worse until they knew it was time. She was coughing and struggling more than she wasn't. Do you know the cause of the cough?

I can completely understand your hesitations. If anything, like my vet said, if you can live with the symptoms (drinking and urinating more) and your dog still has a good quality of life, then you are okay for now. Maybe it's Benji's cough that will be what makes it "time" for him, rather than Cushing's. It is generally a disease that progresses slowly for most dogs. Feel free to come back here for questions and support. Just know that it is not a death sentence, and once you get meds figured out, it isn't as difficult as it seems. There are many, many, many people on here who have successfully treated their dogs, and many of them are no longer on this site.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.

Sincerely,

Julie & Hannah

[jorjann]

It's been a while since I was on. Thank you for all the suggestions and reassurances. Some new information is available. Here is a short recap on our situation. My old man, Benji may have cushings and also had a night time cough that was difficult to deal with. We used trobutrol as needed and that seemed to work. However, at some point he was taking semplicef antibiotics for bacterial infection on his skin, and voila! no more coughing! When I told the vet, she put him on a regimen was 30 days of clavamox. He has done well, and is no longer coughing at all through out the night. His last day on the Clavamox is today, so we will see what happens when it is out of his system. He is also taking marin liver support and we plan to have more bloodwork done in a few weeks to see if that and the new diet has worked to bring his liver profile closer to normal. Here is my new concern - - - my man has become very aggressive. He's always been sensitive. I mean sensitive in the literal sense. We've never been able to pick him up without his screaming. A light petting might lead to a cry and a snap. We are always careful not to startle him and touch him in a way that he might react aggressively, but today I needed him to get off the couch. I told him first to get down. He didn't, then I walked closer to him and told him, "off" - - - he ignored me. So, I used my pointer finger to motion for him to get down and he came after me. Barking and growling aggressively. He is becoming more and more difficult to treat and care of without fear of getting bitten. I'm not afraid of him, but I am afraid that he is becoming more and more uncomfortable and this is creating a heightened defense response in him. Can someone please respond if you've noticed anything similar? Thank you so very much.

[jmac]

Hi there-
I am glad to hear the cough is so much better! I'll keep my fingers crossed that even off the Clavamox it will be resolved. That's one step in the right direction!

My Hannah has been on Denamarin (a combo of Marin and Denosyl) for her liver for about a month. We had a blood test done this past week and her ALKP level has been cut in half, so we are continuing on it. That is all she is taking besides Cosequin and her allergy meds at this point because her Cushing's symptoms are very mild.

I am not familiar with any sort of aggression in Cushing's pups. Hannah couldn't be more sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly, but she has always been that way. It makes me think something else is wrong, or if there is a pituitary tumor, it is causing his mood change. I really have no idea though, so I am sure some of the "experts" will be along to help you soon.

Thanks for the update and I hope you can figure out what to do about this new issue.

Julie & Hannah

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

Good to hear from you again!

If the aggression has just started, then I would look at the thyroid right off. Thyroid issues can cause irritability and aggression. So if that hasn't been checked, I would have that done asap.

Let us know how Benji is doing and I hope the cough continues to improve.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Leslie is correct, Sudden aggression in a dog can be a symptom of a thyroid disorder. Dr. Dodds, a canine thyroid expert, has wrote an article about this, here is the link: Thyroid Disease Information (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34026&postcount=3)

[lulusmom]

When was Benji's last bloodwork done and can you post the results of the abnormal values only and please include the normal reference ranges. What physical symptoms does Benji have that leads you and your vet to believe that Benji may have cushing's?

It sounds like Benji has always been a bit aggressive but it has recently escalated. Unless a petowner can nip that kind of behavior in the bud, the aggression usually gets worse. There are very few of us pet owners who are educated and experienced enough to deal with biters, myself included. Whenever aggression comes on suddenly, the first thing you should do is rule out medical problems. Hypothyroidism, dementia and brain tumors can cause once sweet dogs to suddenly become aggressive .

My Jojo has always been sensitive whenever anybody picks him up. I discovered that if I sweet talk him and place my hands directly behind his front legs and lift, he doesn't cry out or try to snap at me. Jojo has chronic pu/pd (drinks and pees huge amounts of water) and two abdominal ultrasounds revealed a huge bladder. I believe the size of his bladder and the liver may cause tremendous pressure and pain if lifted up around the abdomen. Jojo is a sweetheart with everybody and he only nips if you pick him up wrong. He doesn't care too much for grooming either but his groomer has learned to work with him.

I'm a dog rescuer and most of the biters we've rescued really aren't aggressive. They are scared to death or are in pain and once we've gotten them out of their scarey surrounding and addressed their medical problems, they are amazingly sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly. However, we've had some that were probably fearful biters before they ended up in the shelter and we've had to enlist the help of a professional trainer to turn them around. If your vet can rule out all of the possible medical causes for Benji's aggression, it may be that you will need a professional to work with you to resolve the problem.

Glynda

[jorjann]

So happy to hear from all of you! Yes, blood work was done just recently - about 6 weeks ago, which showed elevated liver enzymes over the blood work done last year. I don't have the report to give the exact numbers. It is only elevated, but not in the extreme range, which is what caused my dr. to put him on Marin as liver support. Additionally, she asked about his thirst and urinary needs - - both of which are excessive. I do believe his thyroid was tested, but not certain. I'll call and find out. Lulu's mom described Jojo's sensitivity to the T - - - just like Benji. If I pick him up perfectly, without putting excessive pressure under his arms or on his abdomen -- he's OK. He's has fear aggression towards others, but only if he is approached. As far as snapping when he's being petted - - he's never really enjoyed it. He wants to sit in our laps or next to us, but really doesn't like our hands on him - -
I wonder, as you mentioned, if there is something else going on with him. Just called the vet, and yes the thyroid was tested and normal.
If only the little ones could talk.

[addy]

I have a similar problem with my Zoe. When we brought her home from animal control, she was fearful and bit and snapped. I worked really hard with her to overcome it. We started treating her Cushings last June and this winter she is having allergy problems. She chews her front paws terribly and has become biting and snappish and just miserable. It is not constant but it comes and goes. One day I can put her sweater on the next day she wants to bite my hand!!!:rolleyes:

I know she does not feel well. It is hard to see this behavior return because we had extinguished it for so long.

I take baby steps with her, positive reinforcement with her favorite food. She was fine with the foot baths and then just decided enough and would try to bite and throw a fit. I had to sit on the floor, get her to come to me, reward. Get her to walk toward the foot bath, reward, reach her head over the foot bath, reward, then plunk her in it and give her a jack pot of chicken. She got over being snappy about the foot bath:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

They are a challenge. Just remember you may not know if you passed their bite threshold until they bite

Hang in there,
addy