Michael stopps and sam a 15 year old Border collie

[Michael Stopps]

Morning Everyone.

my dog on self diagnosis must have cushings. we are getting the results today. the blood test came back with no organs damaged. kidneys, liver and was not diabetic.
the urine was quite clear.

sam drinks lots a has the accidents which never happened before.
sam only started drinking lot 2-3 weeks ago.
sam is not over hungry and last night was the 1st time ever he didnt eat his dinner in one sitting. and was sick 2 hours after.
sam plonks his head down quite hard every now and again.
and the walkshave got alot shorter. last night we walked 400 yards and when we got to the start of the park he flopped to the ground. I picked him up and he then took about 5 minutes to walk back the 400 yards. only 3 weeks ago he would walk to school with the kids and back = 2400 yards and about a 1000 yards at night. even over christmas he walked around a lake well over 1 mile.

sam has just enough power in his front legs to lift himself but I now lift him from under the back legs every time.

what we need to know is how quickly once on vetoryl would we see him back to his old self?
will sam get the strength back to walk?
how quick will sam stop drinking as much water?
sam takes glucosamine sulphate should I stop this when he starts the vetoryl?

I have read it can takes four months before the drugs work is this true? as we wouldnt want him to have this low quality of life for another 4 months.

sam shudders sometimes when he breathes in.
and doesnt even wag his tail.

sam at christmas was walking in the garden and chewing his new toy. he has gone down hill very quick in the last few days. we cant wait to start him on the vetoryl or other one.

I have seen the prices on the net as im sure the vets will be loads more.

If these drugs perk him up then good but we dont want him to suffer why waiting. he looks so depressed. and for most of his time lays in the one spot and only goes out to pee, poop and drink.

this is no quality of life.

thanks for reading this and if anyone can comment great.

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[mytil]

Hi and welcome to our site. I am very sorry your Sam is having these troubles.

My first thoughts are that Cushing's does not come on this quickly. It is a slow progressing condition.

Did you notice any of these symptoms before? In hindsight? Some of the symptoms over time can be construed as just getting older.

It is important that you post those test results as soon as you get them.

I am a bit suspect because he does not have an appetite and that he was sick after he ate. Add to that his "muscle weakness" all of a sudden. Has your vet checked for any kidney issues? Does you Sam look like he is in any pain?

To answer your direct questions: That all depends. If it is Cushing's once the cortisol levels are lowered then you will see improvements and each dog is different.


what we need to know is how quickly once on vetoryl would we see him back to his old self?

will sam get the strength back to walk?

how quick will sam stop drinking as much water?


[I]sam takes glucosamine sulphate should I stop this when he starts the vetoryl? You are giving this to Sam due to arthritis, right? Is it over the counter or from your vet? I have never known of any interaction, but I have never used Vetoryl and I am sure those who have will be chiming in.

Keep us posted.
Terry

[labblab]

Welcome from me, too, to you and Sam. I am very sorry, though, that Sam is feeling so poorly. And just as Terry has said, I am wondering if something besides Cushing's is causing Sam's problems since they have come on so quickly. It would be very unusual for Cushing's to affect a dog so severely in such a short amount of time. The loss of appetite and vomiting is a particular worry since it is not characteristic of Cushing's itself. It makes me worry, for instance, whether Sam might have pancreatitis since it sounds as though he is pretty acutely ill and perhaps in pain. :(

You've said, however, that all his bloodwork thus far has been normal. So his illness appears to be somewhat of a puzzle. I do want to warn you that the two standard blood tests for Cushing's -- the LDDS and the ACTH -- have the potential to return "false" positive results in the face of other adrenal illness. In other words, there are other conditions or problems aside from Cushing's that can cause a dog's cortisol level to be abnormally elevated. Do you live in an area where you can be referred to a specialty vet who can perform an abdominal ultrasound? This is a procedure whereby a dog's entire abdominal cavity is imaged. It is not at all painful for the dog, but the pictures can give you an excellent status report on the adrenal glands, kidney, liver, spleen, etc. So if there is any physical mass or abnormality to these organs, you can have a better idea as to the source of the problems (and Cushing's can be corroborated or not).

Once again, I am very glad you have found us. Please do keep us updated, and any actual numerical test results that you can give us will be very helpful.

Please give Sam some pats for me,
Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Welcome from me as well. I, too, am sorry that Sam is not feeling well. I also agree with Terry and Marianne that Cushing's is a slow progressing disease and sometimes a dog goes years before a Cushing's diagnosis is confirmed.

Has Sam's heart been checked? Does Sam cough at all? Some of the symptoms you described such as fatigue and loss of appetite can be attributed to heart issues and other illnesses.

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Michael and welcome to you and Sam! :)

It sounds like your boy is suffering from something other than Cushing's to me as well - tho this is a difficult condition to diagnose and not all dogs read the rule book. ;)

However, before I spent any money on the LDDS, HDDS, or ACTH - which are tests for Cushing's - I would do three tests asap. One is a simple urine test called the UC:CR. This test can rule Cushing's OUT but cannot diagnose it...an abnormal result simply means something is "off".

The second test I would have, and have asap, is an abdominal ultrasound. This is non-invasive tho he will have his belly shaved and a sedative may be required to keep him still on the table while filming. With an U/S, they can see many organs and be able to tell if there are issues with any of them that may be causing what you are seeing.

Third, I would definitely look into pancreatitis asap as well. This test and the UC:CR could be done at the same time.

Has his food changed recently? Is there any possibility he ate something outside that could have contained a poison of some sort?

Cushing's just doesn't come on this fast and cause such rapid deterioration so either he has been showing signs for a long time or this is something else. The signs for Cushing's are hard to notice as most of them seem to be simply aging. Here is a great list of common cush signs from Kate Connick -

From Kate Connik
The most common symptoms include:
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)
• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)
• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs
• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.
• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance
• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• bony, skull-like appearance of head
• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin
• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly
• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)
• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)
• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

Any lab work he has had done recently would be great to post so we can see the results....just post the abnormal results, ie too low or too high, along with the units of measurement and normal ranges for each value.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to hear more from you soon. You and Sam are not alone any longer. We are with you every step of the way. Ask any questions you have and we will do our best to answer or direct you to where you can find those answers. We are here for you both every single day.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Michael Stopps]

Thanks for all the very informative replys. sam has had more blood test today and you were all right. not cushings. he also had the ultra sound test. calcium came back normal. just waiting for results at 3pm
wednesday about the liver. he has just had a tin of dinner without the mixer and eat the lot. yum yum. went straight outside and had a long drink of water. just looks so down in the dumps. no hair loss apart from him normal malting. shaking like he's cold most of the time. but loves his chest scratched. if results are bad for the liver we wont prolong if he is suffering as just a shadow of himself and laying in one spot only to move for dinner or a toilet and not interested in a walk is no quality of life. gutted for him.

thanks everyone. M.Stoppsand Sam Happy New Year

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Michael,

My heart is breaking as I read your latest post. :( It is so very difficult to see our babies feeling so bad and feeling helpless to do anything for them. But don't give up hope just yet.

Post the test results and we can help you decipher them, perhaps offering some insight that has been overlooked and with that insight perhaps some relief for you and Sam both. We have seen a lot of things here over the years, lived with myriad conditions, and are more than happy to share what we have learned from this.

Get the diagnosis, if one is forthcoming, find out what can be done to help with it, and keep in touch often.

Above all else, if worst comes to worst, we will be by your side. We will support whatever you decide is best for your sweet boy because we know that any decision made out of love can never be wrong...and it is obvious you love Sam dearly.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mytil]

Well I am glad to hear it is not Cushing's.

Please keep heart because I have seen many times a dog so down only to find out that something could be done - a medicine can turn the dog around and the quality of life becomes so much better with little time, but it takes time. Something such as pain management can do wonders should Sam have pain issues. You can also have an xray performed on his neck and spine to see if there are any issues there causing pain.

Please keep us posted for sure.
Terry