Zoe, 12 year old Border terrier, has passed

[KatharineWeber]

I had previously posted about my 12 year old Border Terrier who really struggled with Lysodren. It just devastated her. After the loading phase, she never recovered enough to get going on the maintenance dose. I gave her 1/8 of the maintenance dose and **wham**, she could not tolerate it.

I was fortunate enough to get an appointment with Dr. Nelson, at UC Davis for April 14th. He is the Vet who literally wrote the textbook on Cushings in dogs (he told me he's treated over 1,000 dogs!). At the time I saw him, Zoe had not been on any medication (no Prenisone, no Lysodren) for two weeks. She was pretty weak.

He did the blood test and her values were very, very low. He decided the Lysodren may have knocked her adrenals completely out. Like: end of Cushings. He's seen it happen before. He put her on 5 mg of Prednisone twice a day for a couple of days and of course, she responded nicely. Then he tapered me off to 2.5 mg twice a day and now I am down to 2.5 mg once a day. We've been doing that for the last four days. I can honestly say, she's back 100%.

Dr. Nelson has kept in touch with me via email and always responds. He's very dedicated (a lot younger than I expected and quite cute, too!) Given that it is a teaching hospital, I intially saw a About-to-Graduate-Vet-student who spent an hour with me examining my dog. Then he consulted with Dr. Nelson, who came in with the student and spent another half hour with me. I only paid for the blood work and tests, about $300.00.

The plan is to taper Zoe off the Prednisone and see if her adrenals kick back in. He said if they do, and they begin overproducing again, he will try Trilostane (I may have spelled that wrong). If she begins to get week, he will just keep her on a maintenance dose of Prednisone.

So that's where I am at.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Katharine,
Wow, I am so happy that Zoe's is doing so much better.:D:D:D Yes, it sounds like she was overloaded to the point of addisons.

I am really happy:D:D:D for both of you and will keep good thoughts and prayers that it all continues to go well.

And .... thanks for comming back to updates us.:):) It is amazing what a well informed vet can do. Hope some of his students move out here;)

All my best to you and Zoe.
John (Roxee's Dad)

[labblab]

Hi Katharine,

I just want to chime in with John to say how glad I am to hear about Zoe's progress! We are also so glad that you and Zoe have rejoined us here!!!! :)

I have one favor to ask of you. A number of us have been wondering whether UC Davis currently has a written protocol or set of guidelines that they follow regarding trilostane treatment and monitoring. If you look at this link, you will find an excerpt from a 2007 journal article that summarized the monitoring guidelines that UC Davis was using at that time:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745

But we are wondering whether they have changed their recommendations during these past two years. If you would feel comfortable asking Dr. Nelson whether they have any current published guidelines, we would surely appreciate reading them! But of course the decision whether or not to ask is entirely up to you.

In the meantime, all best wishes to you and Zoe, and please keep us updated!
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Katharine!

Glad to see you finally got all the kinks worked out and were able to post! :D

Sounds like Zoe is in excellent hands with Dr Nelson and I am so glad you got to see him! I hope the pred keeps Zoe feeling good and that her adrenals regenerate just enough to do their job! ;)

Keep us updated when you can!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Katharine

Fantastic that you found your way over here. I was looking forward to your update on Zoe then .. kapooffff... cc.net disappeared.

It is great that she is feeling better and that Dr Nelson has a plan of attack!

Just out of interest .... what were Zoes pre and post values for her ACTH at UC Davis?

Take care
Angela and Sabre

[ChristyA]

I too was wondering how Zoe was doing, glad you're here. It's good to hear she is doing well.

Wow a young, cute, vet, that knows about Cushing's - how lucky can you get!

Christy

[KatharineWeber]

The post test done by Dr. Nelson was 1.4 ug/dl. Uncertain what the pre-was. She had one done about 5 days before that and it was 3.3 and 3.5 but he said the Prednisone she had been on was giving inaccurate readings.

And yes, I will email him about the protocol issue so stand by.

It was hard finding you guys. I finally googled "what happened to the canine cushings forum?" and there you were!

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Katharine

I wonder whether, once again, Zoe's pre and post numbers were non-stimulatory and therefore Dr Nelson's comment on her "Lysodren may have knocked her adrenals completely out". Generally a post value of 1.4 is "A" OK for a cushings Lysodren treated canine. As I posted on cc.net we generally only look at the post but when it comes to a dog "going low" the pre value is also looked at.

I don't know, and can't recall, your administration of pred and when the ACTH test results were done but it is my understanding that generally it is ok after 24 hours off pred before you can get reliable results for and ACTH.

Angela and Sabre

[StarDeb55]

Katharine, I'm thrilled you & Zoe found us! I was truly heartsick with the terrible problems that Zoe had been having when the forum went off-line. I thought at least you had that appointment at UC-Davis coming which would give you the final say-so.

Unfortunately, I was very worried that this was going to be the case that Zoe may have been made permanently Addisonian when you posted her loading dose on the old forum which I think was around 72 mg/kg. Hopefully, her adrenals will regenerate on their own, but this may take quite sometime to occur. With her numbers being so low, did Dr. Nelson check her electrolytes & say anything about regular monitoring of her electrolytes for the next little while?

Debbie

[dees]

Hi Katharine! I am glad the UC Davis vet visit went well. Keep us posted. DeeS

[KatharineWeber]

I asked your question about the new protocols, but Dr. Nelson never responded. Sorry.

However, I upped Zoe's Prednisone a bit to 3.75 (by cutting a 5 mg pill into smaller pieces) because she had loose stools in the p.m. Dr. Nelson just emailed me and suggested I get 1 mg Prednisone and give her 3 mg a day for a week. So I am going through our local pharmacy to get that.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Katharine,

Maybe Dr Nelson is just slow in responding? I hope so. I would really like to see any updated protocols he may know about. I appreciate your efforts, tho. :)

Sounds like Zoe is still in need of the pred. I'm glad you got in touch with the doc and will soon have a higher dose for her. I certainly hope she does better. It is so sad to see them feeling badly.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[labblab]

I asked your question about the new protocols, but Dr. Nelson never responded. Sorry.

Katharine, thanks so much for trying! As Leslie said, maybe he'll respond at another time. And really, above and beyond anything else, the single question that we're probably most interested in is whether or not UC Davis currently starts brand new trilostane patients on one dose a day or two.

But most important of all, I surely do hope that Zoe will feel much better on the increased prednisone!!

Marianne

[KatharineWeber]

Zoe is now on 3 mg of Prednisone a day and doing just fine. I need to contact Dr. Nelson in the next two or three days. He sent me a bottle of 1 mg so I could more accurately dose her.

Katharine

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Katharine,

Glad to hear that Zoe is doing better and that you got the new dose of pred for her. That should make dose changes easier for sure.

Keep in touch!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Katharine

Great to hear that Zoe is doing well. Great you have 1mg pred ... we have 20mg tabs so you can imagine how easy ... NOT ... it is when I've had to use pred!!!

All the best to you and Zoe
Angela and Sabre

[KatharineWeber]

Regarding the 1 mg Prednisone: my local Vet does not carry it and Dr. Nelson said he was going to give me a prescription for my local pharmacy. Instead he sent me a bottle with a whole bunch in it. So maybe your Vet can write you a prescription you can take to your local pharmacy.

[KatharineWeber]

Here it is, several weeks later, and Zoe is still doing grand on 3 mg of Prednisone daily. A friend recently visited who is on Prednisone and she's taking much higher doses so she sent me three bottles of 1 mg Prednisone that she will never use (she takes 20 mg a day). So I am stocked for good. So far, no changes and Zoe appears healthy and happy. That sure was a rough patch there for a bit.

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Katharine

Fantastic to hear that Zoe is doing well. You did go through a rough patch but there is definitely a bright light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for the update.

Angela and Sabre

[KatharineWeber]

It's now mid-July and Zoe has been on 4 mg of Prednisone since May. She seems fine. I took her to the Vet yesterday who did some blood work and said her electrolytes are exactly normal so we'll just keep going. The Dr. at UC Davis concurred with this!

[StarDeb55]

Thanks for the update, Katharine! I'm very happy to hear that Zoe is still doing well. Just curious, has she had a stim done recently, & has there been any improvement in her numbers?

Debbie

[KatharineWeber]

Well, I have inched up her prednisone to 7 mg, which Dr. Nelson says is too much. She seems "okay" but does tend to have these periods of time where she stares vacuously into space....a possible symptom. Dr. Nelson is having me back down on the Prednisone and wants me to bring Zoe in for a CT scan of her brain ($1500). He thinks the pituitary tumor could be growing. If so, I guess they treat it with radiation. Anyone had experience with this? She's 12 and a half.

[KatharineWeber]

Seriously bad news. The CT scan showed a slightly enlarged pituitary but that isn't the problem. It also showed a huge brain tumor. Slow growing, so it's been there awhile. No treatment is available at this advanced stage. Now that she's showing symptoms, the doctor says I will probably have to make a decision to put her down within a month or two. Sad, sad news.

[StarDeb55]

Katharine, I am so terribly sorry to hear this. You have truly done your best to help Zoe to get through all of this, & to find this out is just devastating. Please keep us posted as to how both of you are doing. We are hear to listen, & give you a virtual shoulder to cry on when you need one.

Debbie

[labblab]

Katharine, I am also so sorry to hear this news. I lost my own Cushpup to what we assume was an enlarging tumor in his head, and my heart goes out to you. I am just so sorry, and I will be here to help you in any way that I can.

Marianne

[AlisonandMia]

I'm so sorry to hear about Zoe's diagnosis.:(

That is pretty much what happened with my little Mia. Her symptoms were different because of where the tumor was - only her balance was affected. Mia (who was also 12yo) also had a pretty good-sized pituitary macroadenoma but it wasn't causing any problems for some reason, but the other brain tumor was huge. By the time it was diagnosed (it had looked like the problem with her balance was an ear infection earlier on) it was time for her to go as in 12 hours prior to actually having the CT her balance mechanism had gone completely and she was terrified and very distressed and had got to the stage where palliative treatment could not offer her any quality of life even for a short time.

I'm guessing Zoe has been put on a large dose of prednisone or dexamethasone?

Alison

[SaxLady]

Dear Katharine,
I am so very sorry to hear this news about Zoe. I was following her progress and it seemed encouraging. How devastating! I will pray for comfort for you and whatever the best outcome for Zoe will be. I am a loss for words, since I lost my beloved Katrina on August 19th.
Much love for you both,
Candy, always Katrina, Heidi and Nixie

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Katharine

I am so sorry to hear your news. You really have been battling for Zoe and you have done a wonderful job. As the others have said we will be here for you when you need it.

Take care
Angela, Sabre and the newly acquired Flynn

[4Mikeydog]

Dear Katherine,

I've just been reading your thread and I want to tell you how sad I am to hear this news.
My heart goes out to you. I know what it is like to try with all of your might to help your little furbaby sustain and improve their health
and for the realization to set in that sometimes no matter what we do, we cannot resolve everything.
We are going through that very sad realization right now too.
In reading your thread, it is apparent that you have been a wonderful advocate for Zoe.
Take care...and try, at this incredibly difficult time, to think of the good times with Zoe...

Dorothy and Mikey.

[BestBuddy]

Dear Katherine,
I just wanted to send my prayers to you and Zoe. We should all enjoy today like there is no tomorrow because one just never knows. Give Zoe all that special love and attention she deserves.
Jenny

[Harley PoMMom]

Dear Katherine,

I, too, am saddened to hear of your news, and just wanted to let you know that you and Zoe are in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and many hugs.
Lori

[k9diabetes]

I am so sorry to here this news about Zoe... There is something to "knowing" and being able to concentrate only on what's important now.

Sending a hug,

Natalie

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Katherine,

I am so saddened to hear this diagnosis for your precious Zoe. :( Sometimes life throws us a curve so wild all we can do is grab on to what we have now, hold on as tight as we can for as long as we can, and be grateful for each and every second we have been be given.

Please know we are here for you anytime for any reason. Your family here understands just how deeply these little souls can burrow into our own and how painful it is when medical intervention can no longer help. But you have in your possession the most powerful aid there is - your love. That love will guide you in time ahead as nothing else could. And we will be with you every step of the way, just reach out and you will find us there.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[KatharineWeber]

Well, here it is 5 weeks since the brain tumor diagnosis and things are pretty much the same! She even went on the Coastside Trail with me (2 miles or so) today. Eats normally, etc. Must be a very slow growing tumor. She's teaching me to "live in the moment". I'll keep you posted. Thanks for your prayers. I think they are working!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Katharine,

"Live in the moment," they do TRY their best to teach us that, don't they...and we do try our best. I know you are treasuring every moment with Zoe and living in the moment with her as well.

Thanks so much for the update and I will definitely send tons of prayers and positive thoughts your way.

Love and hugs.
Lori

[gpgscott]

Katherine,

I am sorry I have not posted to you previously.

I am also sorry to learn about the diagnosis of the inoperable tumor.

I hope you both have many good moments in the times to come.

Please continue to consider us part of your family, we care deeply about you both.

Scott.

[bgdavis]

I'm so sorry that Zoe has this tumor. It's a hard diagnosis to deal with. I hope that the two of you have many special times together.

Bonnie and Angel Criss

[KatharineWeber]

A final update: Thinking it was Cushings, in Sept. I had a brain scan done at UC Davis only to find that Zoe had a large meningeal tumor on her brain. They said I'd have two months with her. She made it to month 4. Her neurological symptoms gradually overtook her and today I made the sound decision to have her euthanized. It was very hard, but most of the personality of the little dog I called Zoe was gone quite a long time ago.

If anyone ever has this diagnosis with their animal and they need someone to talk about, I'm happy to share with them my experience.

It turns out, Dr. Nelson, the Cushing's expert at UC Davis, had a lab with the same tumor. He said his dog had the same onset of symptoms: loss of interaction, circling to the right, only eating out of the right side of the bowl, increased agitation. He also told me he had to put his 14 year old lab down two weeks ago and for the first time in 30 years he and his wife do not have a dog in the house. His email was very touching.

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Katherine,

I am so sorry to hear about your sweet Zoe but I know you made the right decision for her regardless of the pain it is causing you today. Someone once said that we take their pain so they don't have to carry it any more.

Zoe's name has been added to our In Loving Memory list for 2009.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132

Candles are being lit for you and Zoe at -

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=K9C

Know you are not alone in this part of our journey with our fur babies. Many here walk with you, some with tears almost as fresh as yours.

You have my prayers and thoughts.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Goldie, Crystal, and Angel Ruby

[gpgscott]

Dear Katharine,

I along with all of the other members of this forum are greiving for your Zoe.


Scott

[Harley PoMMom]

Dear Katherine,

I am so sorry to hear about your beloved Zoe and although mere words can not ease the pain you are feeling right now, please know that we are here for you...always.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

With heartfelt sympathy,
Lori

[littleone1]

I am so sorry for your loss, Katharine. Zoe is now at peace and and is no longer suffering. She can now be her old self again.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Sabre's Mum]

Dear Katharine

I knew this was going to happen one day but ... you are never really prepared ... as tears stream down my face! You were such a wonderful mum battling at the start of her treatment and the you found an absolutely fantastic IMS. Now your darling Zoe is free and although your heart is hurting you will always have those beautiful memories of her.

Take care
Angela, Sabre and Flynn

[Carol G]

Katharine,

I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.

Carol

[ChristyA]

Katharine,
I am so sorry. You were the absolute best mom Zoe could have ever had. I know this is a heartbreaking loss but I hope in time you will smile at the thought of Zoe running free with all the other cushpups and animal friends. Dexter had an enlarging tumor.
Take Care,
Christy

[BestBuddy]

Katherine,

It's no consolation but I am so glad you had those extra months to "live in the moment". Zoe was a lucky lady to have you caring and loving her because only the strongest love can help you decide that life should not be prolonged. We love them throughout their lives and then at some point we have to let them go. Keeping you in my prayers and thoughts.

Jenny

[StarDeb55]

Katherine, I am deeply saddened at Zoe's passing, but am glad you were able to have a couple of good extra months with her. There are no real words that can help right now, but I am thinking of you.

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Katherine,

I am so very sorry for the loss of your precious Zoe. There are no words to offer comfort or solace at this time. You were the best mum Zoe could ever have asked for, and she knew your love for her knows no bounds.
Know that we are here for you, and again, deepest sympathies.

With love and HUGE (((Hugs)))

Jane and family xx
________
Iolite vaporizer review (http://iolitevaporizer.net/)

[sarahbera1]

Katharine,

I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.

Sarah

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Katharine
I am so very sorry for your loss. I'm sure sweet Zoe will be watching over you.

[k9diabetes]

Godspeed to Zoe... it is wonderful that she led such a full and beloved life to the last.

With sympathy,

Natalie

[jrepac]

very sorry to hear about the loss of Zoe

Jeff

[Casey's Mom]

Katherine, very sorry to hear of Zoes passing. I am so glad you had extra time with her and I remember reading about your two mile hike a while back. You have some great memories, my thoughts are with you.

Love and hugs,

[John II]

Dear Katharine,

I am so sorry for your loss.
My thoughts are with you.
Please take some comfort in knowing you did everything possible for Zoe.

[mytil]

Dear Katherine,

I am truly saddened to read of your Zoe's passing. My heart is with you.

Healing ((((hugs)))) being sent your way.
We will always remember your girl.
Terry

[labblab]

Dear Katharine,

Thank you so much for returning to tell us about Zoe's release. Every time we lose one of our family members, the waves reach out and touch us all. And so it is a privilege and comfort for us, too, to be able to always honor Zoe here and to offer you our ongoing support.

Like Christy, I also lost my boy to what we assume was an enlarging tumor. And so I do understand that when the time arrives when our babies are no longer "themselves," it feels as though we have no choice but to repay them for their love and devotion by releasing them from their confusion and discomfort. We owe them more than we are ever able to repay. But that is one final gift that we are able to give.

I hope you will return to us, to let us know how you are doing. But meanwhile, as Leslie has said, we will always keep Zoe's memory alive here, amidst all our other precious ones who have joined her in passage.

In loving memory of your sweet girl,
Marianne

[bkdice]

i'm so sorry for your loss. i'm glad you got more time than expected, but i know it's never enough. it sounds like you did right by your girl though. wishing you peace throughout your recovery.

[clydetheboosmom]

I'm so very sorry. Godspeed to your baby, Zoe.

Lynne, Clyde & Bailey

[mypuppy]

Dearest Katharine,
I had not been on the forum for several days due to the holidays, but was very sad when I checked in today and read Zoe has left us. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. It is so hard to let go even though we must. Zoe was precious. The memories will never end. Tight hugs and prayers sent your way. We luv you and God Bless Zoe! xo Jeanette

[Truffle's Mom]

Katharine as the mom of a 12 yr old Border Terrier who is just beginning the Cushing's ordeal, my heart goes out to you. How devastating for you to get the news that she had a tumor.

Bigs hugs to you during this difficult time. I'm sure my angels were there to greet her on Rainbow Bridge.

[zoesmom]

Hi Katharine - I'm so sorry about your Zoe. It seems to touch a little closer to home when the sad news happens to one of our special doggy members who shares the same name as our own. I saw the post about your Zoe earlier but was having a hard time clicking on it.

I wish the healing process could be faster, but it goes at its own speed. I know Zoe will always be in your heart, regardless!! Hugs and prayers. Sue and Zoe

[KatharineWeber]

Man, oh man....it has been almost four months since I lost Zoe and the tears are still right below the surface. I know I must give myself time to fully grieve her loss before even beginning to think about getting a new fur baby. I had no idea the grief around this dog would be so sharp. I heard a quote on the radio the other day.....it hit home...."When you see the death of anything, you see the death of everything, including yourself."

But I was also deeply touched by this, which I found:

THE BEST PLACE TO BURY A DOG

"There is one best place to bury a dog. If you bury him in this spot, he will come to you when you call -- come to you over the grim, dim frontier of death, and down the well remembered path, and to your side again.
And though you call a dozen living dogs to heel, they shall not growl at him, nor resent his coming, for he belongs there.
People may scoff at you, who see no lightest blade of grass bent by his footfall, who hear no whimper, people who may never really have had a dog. Smile a them, for you shall know something that is hidden from them, and which is well worth the knowing. The one best place to bury a good dog is in the heart of his master."

Ben Hur Lampman

Could not have said it better.

[mytil]

Katherine,

I am so very glad you have posted again. When we do not hear from members, frankly we worry. :)

I know the pain is still strong and really there is no set time line or rules for grieving. It took me a very long time when I lost my Mytilda and that is okay. Take your time and if and when another comes along you will know when you are ready.

Your saying and poem really hit home with me and thank you for posting them.

Your Zoe will be always be with you and I know is watching over you.

Please do post again to let us know how you are doing and help you through this still rough time.

((((hugs))))
Terry

[zoesmom]

Hi Katharine -

Loved your quote. We had to let our Zoe go on March 13th and it crushed me. Still struggling on a day to day basis - some days worse than others. I know there's another furbuddy in my future.....just not sure if I'm ready for it yet, although I keep looking at the rescue websites. I keep going to the black dogs, but then fear that I might compare them to Zo and that wouldn't be fair.

On the other hand, the golden/yellow/sable ones are calling to me, too, but I'm afraid if I go that direction, I'll long for a black one. :rolleyes::rolleyes: May have to adopt two....but right now - in the midst of unpacking at our new house - I'm not quite ready. But I do understand how verrrry lonely it feels without them. ((((Hugs)))) Sue

[maggiebeagle]

We set our Maggie free a day after you let your Zoe go. I had no idea I would missing her so much 4 months later.
We adopted a "pound puppy" last month. I saw her picture on the website and it called to me. Your special pup will find you when the time is right.

[Harley PoMMom]

Dear Katharine,

I am so sorry for the loss of your belove Zoe. We love them so very much and when we lose them it is so very hard and painful.

Loved both of your quoted and I do believe that our furbabies do live on in our hearts forever.

Take care of yourself and please let us know how you are doing.

With Heartfelt Sympathy,
Lori

[labblab]

Dear Katharine,

I think the writing that you shared with us is just beautiful. No matter how much time passes, these special little souls will never be forgotten -- nor will our pain over their loss...

I also want to thank you so much for sharing your special picture of Zoe. We have now been able to add it to our memorial photo album, where Zoe will always be honored. She looks so very happy in this picture. What a sweet smile, and what a sweet baby girl.

Please do remain with us, to tell us how you are doing and to share any special thoughts or memories.

My best wishes always,
Marianne (forever Barkis' and Peg's and Luna's mom)

[clydetheboosmom]

Katharine -

I'm so very sorry. My condolences to you, and all my caring hugs...

Lynne, Clyde & Bailey

[KatharineWeber]

My heart is gradually healing. I'm not so teary every day. I think that people who lose a beloved pet really need to know they will need month, possibly a year or more, to recover, and to not think there is something "weird" about that. When I know if my job is reinstated next year I may entertain the possibility of a new dog, but it's still a long way off. Cesar Milan says if we get a new dog while we are still grieving our previous one, we represent a weak energy. I don't want to be that.