Ivy 16 year old Dachshund needs help (Ivy has passed on)

[alan]

Hi All, I have a 16 year old dachshund called Ivy she has had cushings since she was 8 she has been on vetoryl with no problems untill april this year when she started having short seizures about two or three a week lasting about 5 seconds each one, In the last month she has a lot more about 50 a week my vet does not know what is causing it and the only thing he can suggest is vallium she is ok apart from this has anyone come across this problem i would be grateful for any input. Alan

[mytil]

Hi Alan,

Welcome to our site. I am sorry Ivy is having this trouble.

Are there any other symptoms you are seeing with the seizures - like circling, head pressing, or sitting in a corner?

Did your vet rule out any other condition - such as epilepsy?

I know others will be chiming in shortly.

Terry

[pupdog]

Pituitary tumors can grow faster once the cortisol is lowered, its called nelsons syndrome, when they get to macro adenoma size they can cause seizures. This is the most likely cause of your problem, I don't know a lot about treating it but here is a webpage on it.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_pituitary_macroadenoma.html

Whole body tremors or seizures are also a symptom of end stage renal failure, if she has developed or been living with undiagnosed chronic kidney disease.

[frijole]

Alan, Greetings from me as well. WE do have members whose dogs have had tremors and episodes. Hopefully they will chime in and share what drugs were used. Kim

[mytil]

Hi again,

I know it may seem even more frightening after reading some of the things it could be, but it could, does not mean is. It also could be a part of the overall aging of your girl.

I also wanted to comment on Nelsons Syndrome - this enlargement occurs and is influenced by, in my understanding, when the adrenal glands are removed and not necessarily by the lowering of the cortisol. The removal can allow any preexisting pituitary tumor to grow unchecked.

But here is a link that further discusses the possible link and you can discuss this further with your vet http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19041802.



Quote:
Trilostane-induced inhibition of cortisol secretion results in reduced negative feedback at the hypothalamic-pituitary axis
Domest Anim Endocrinol. 2009 Jan;36(1):32-44. Epub 2008 Nov 11.
Teshima T, Hara Y, Takekoshi S, Nezu Y, Harada Y, Yogo T, Teramoto A, Osamura RY, Tagawa M.
Division of Veterinary Surgery, Department of Veterinary Science, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Nippon Veterinary and Life Science University, 1-7-1 Kyonan-cho, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8602, Japan

Cushing's disease caused by pituitary corticotroph adenoma in dogs is usually treated by medical treatment, and the efficacy of this treatment has been reported. However, controversy remains as to whether reduced negative feedback through the inhibition of cortisol secretion, similar to Nelson's syndrome, may appear as an adverse effect.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the effect of reduced negative feedback through the inhibition of cortisol secretion by daily trilostane administration on the pituitary-adrenal axis in clinically normal dogs.

Dogs were administered 5mg/kg trilostane twice a day every day for 8 weeks (n=8) or 16 weeks (n=3). After the initiation of trilostane administration, plasma adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) concentrations were increased remarkably.

As assessed by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) during administration, the pituitary became enlarged. After trilostane administration, the cytoplasmic areas of the pituitary corticotrophs were increased and the ratio of pituitary corticotrophs to all cells in the anterior lobe was greater in the trilostane-treated dogs than that in untreated animals.

In addition, histological examinations revealed bilateral adrenal cortical hyperplasia. Using real-time PCR quantification, the expression of proopiomelanocortin (POMC) mRNA in the pituitary and ACTH receptor (ACTH-R) mRNA in the adrenal gland was greater in the dogs treated with trilostane than in untreated dogs.

These results indicate that reduced negative feedback induced hyperfunction of the pituitary corticotrophs and pituitary enlargement in healthy dogs. These changes suggest that the inhibition of cortisol secretion by trilostane may increase the risk for accelerating the growth of corticotroph adenomas in dogs with Cushing's disease.

Keep us posted.
Terry

[alan]

Thank you all for your replys it does seem to me that ivy has a pituitary tumor that is getting bigger my vet suggested a brain scan but then said he did not want to put her through it i am giving ivy a rest from her vetoryl to see if that makes a difference. Alan.

[lulusmom]

Hi Alan and welcome to you and Ivy.

First let me congratulate you on being a super dad to Ivy. You've done a great job of caring her and have made it possible for her to enjoy her sweet sixteenth birthday. Also congratulations on 8 years of successful Vetoryl treatment. WOW!!! Most new members come here reeling on the heels of the dreaded diagnosis. We usually request that members post the results of tests done to diagnose their dog but I think it's safe to say that Ivy was correctly diagnosed. :D However, I'm not going to let you off the hook and ask that you please post the results of the last acth stimulation test. :D

I have two dogs with cushing's, one of which has infrequent seizures. Thank goodness they've stayed infrequent but I am prepared to put her on seizure meds if she needs them. 5 seizures a week is probably enough to warrant effective seizure meds and 50 seizures a week is a staggering number. My dog has mild seizures. She stiffens up, glazed over eyes, staring straight ahead. They usually last no more than a minute or so and it takes her about 10 minutes to come out of it and act like nothing happened. It's very weird and most certainly scarey. Is Ivy's appetite okay? Any neurological signs?

I'm a rescuer and I rescued a little 3 lb chihuahua two or three months ago who was experiencing horrific seizures, starting the morning after bringing him home. 20 minutes after onset, we were at the er and he was still seizing off and on with full blown body tremors. He was given Valium, which worked wonders but he was put on Phenobarbital after having several more seizures in the next two days. He is in a new loving home and doing well on his medication.

What type of seizures is Ivy having? With the frequency of episodes , it sounds like cluster seizures. I think valium is appropriate; however, a lot of times it is used as an interim measure until more effective treatments like sodium bromide or phenobarbital kicks in. Has your vet discussed either of these treatments with you? Phenobarbital should not be given with Vetoryl but sodium bromide is an option. We have a senior member who has a great deal of experience with these drugs and hope she will be by to share her experience.

The root cause of seizures is really difficult to diagnose. Did your vet do blood and urine tests to rule out causes such as primary liver disease, hypothyroidism, diabetes, lyme disease? Ivy could have a macrodenoma but the only way to find out is to have a cat scan or MRI. That's an expensive proposition and I would think that at 16 years old, radiation or pituitary surgery would not be an option.

You may have already done some extensive online research but I've included links to a few sites with some good information below.

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Resources.html
http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/VetRecource/laforadisease.htm

Looking forward to hear more about Ivy.

Glynda

P.S. For what it's worthy, I too would have opted to discontinue the Vetoryl to see if it makes any difference. Cortisol is the body's natural anti-inflammatory so if Ivy has a brain tumor, higher cortisol will probably help.

[alan]

Hi Lulusmum, Thank you for your input, The last time ivy was tested the vet said she was slightly overdosed that is why we have left her off vetoryl, Ivy,s appetite is ok she does get confused though, we let her in the yard for a wee and she will forget what she has gone for , or she goes for water gets near the bowl then forgets, Her seizure lasts about 5 seconds she will stiffen up and fall over then get up and go to her bed where she feels safe, our vet has given us 2 weeks supply of valium but we have not given her any yet as we are worried what it will do to her, we are thinking it might be time to say goodbye she has been through a lot in her life when she was 12 a disc went in her back so she had a major operation but because she is a fighter we gave her that chance then in february this year our other dog holly another dachshund died at 15 years old she has been down ever since, she is now deaf and her eyesight is failing, what to do it is so hard.

[lulusmom]

Hi Alan,

My heart goes out to you because I know how gut wrenching it is for you to watch your precious baby have seizures. With the additional symptoms you are seeing, I must admit that a brain tumor is the likely suspect. With continuing seizures, why not try the Valium? Like I mentioned before, I've seen it work wonders and from what I understand, it clears the system rather quickly so side effects, if any, are much less than the Bromides or Phenobarbital. Did your vet give Ivy a valium injection and did she have an adverse reaction? Just wondering if perhaps that is why you are hesitant to administer the valium.

Alan, you may want to consider asking your vet to contact Dr. David Bruyette at VCA West Los Angeles Veterinary Hospital. Dr. Bruyette is a reknown endocrine specialist and an expert on macroadenomas. Have him ask Dr. Bruyette what treatment protocol he would suggest for a 16 year old Dachshund, who is not a candidate for radiation. Dr. Bruyette's contact info is below:

http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/west-los-angeles

Glynda

[alan]

Hi Lulusmum, I have started the valium tonight my vet gave me 2 weeks supply her appetite is not good the last 2 days except for sliced beef i will see how this goes my vet did not give her any injections its just she has been through so much and people have been saying its cruel to keep her going, my vet has also moved away from where i live and its quite a journey to his new practice i do not trust other vets in the area after 2 bad experiences i will let you know how i go on. Alan.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Alan,

I am so sorry that you have been subjected to people's ignorance in such a cruel manner. :( It is not for anyone other than us to say when our baby has had enough. Having to face this question as our babies age is difficult enough without having to listen to that. :(

A friend tells about a "dog-worthy life". By this she means a life that makes being a dog worthwhile. Do they enjoy going out and sniffing around? Do they perk up at familiar sounds? Do they bark at things? Do they enjoy food of some kind? Do they enjoy your touch and attention? Do they enjoy laying out in the sun? Do you still see your baby finding joy in the world around her? Is that light is still in her eyes when you call her name? These are all questions only you can answer. No one knows Ivy better than you.

I can tell you is this - you have been a great dad to Ivy all this time so there is no reason to think you will ever do any less. Your love for her is obvious and because of that love, you will always do the right thing for her. Ivy knows this as well. :)

I want you to know, you will always have a safe place to fall here with us. No matter what steps lie ahead for you and Ivy in the future, we will walk each step with you. We are a family here and as such, you are never alone.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[alan]

Thank you for your kind words Leslie and gang. Alan.

[lulusmom]

Alan, I will be checking in to see how you and Ivy are doing. Good luck with the Valium and I hope it gives Ivy a reprieve from the seizures and you some much needed relief.

Hugs to you both,
Glynda

[frijole]

Hi Alan, My cush dog Haley lived to be 16 1/2. I had people questioning me too but the little lady was able to trot around daintily and enjoyed every last meal. She lived every day with a smile on her face despite the cushing's, and loss of most of her hearing and site due to old age. Keep on giving Ivy love and you and only you will know when the time comes. Bless you. Kim

[alan]

Ivy been on valium 24 hours now still having seizures dosage is 5mg per day sleeps quite a lot is eating a bit better, 2 and a half mg morning and night. Alan.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Alan,

Has the frequency or the intensity of the seizures decreased at all with the Valium?

Eating better sounds good! :) And extra sleep is to be expected so I wouldn't read too much into that right now.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[apollo6]

Dear Alan
You love your Ivy and you will do what ever it takes to keep her with you. We are here to support you. People can be heartless. MY 13 year old, mini dachie, Apollo also has cushing and it has been a roller coaster ride. But I love him and will fight for him. Just put cotton in your ears next time.:D
The seizures may be diabetes or the tumor getting larger, hard to say.
Baby steps.
We are here for you.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[alan]

Frequency of seizures slightly decreased still sleeps a lot appetite is now up and down, Alan.

[lulusmom]

Frequency down is great. My dogs are a lot younger than Ivy and they sleep a lot too. We have a good sized back yard with lots of stuff to explore but three out of the four would rather while away their time on the sofa with us or in their comfy beds. Go figure.

I'll be watching for updates and in the meantime, give your baby girl a hug for me.

Glynda

[alan]

Ivy still having seizures not quite as many but still a lot she is walking quite slow also, had to give her a bath as she pooed in her bed i put this down to the valium not eating all that well, thanks for everybodys input Alan.

[Squirt's Mom]

Thanks for the update...we are here anytime you need/want to chat.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jmac]

Just wanted to stop in to let you know I'm thinking about you and Ivy. I don't always have time to post, but try to check in an get acquainted with as many stories as I can. I know how hard it is to figure out what to do when a dog is older and not doing well, but you know your dog best and what to do. You will know if or when it is time to do something. I am glad to hear her seizures are decreasing and hope her appetite perks up a little.

Julie & Hannah

[lulusmom]

Hi Alan,

I'm still thinking about you and Ivy and will continue to check in on your thread frequently for updates. We're here for you both.

Hugs,
Glynda

[alan]

Had to have Ivy put to sleep today she got a chest infection and had too many other problems, Thank you to all the wonderful people on this site long may you continue to help other people. God Bless. Alan.

[LhasaLover]

I am sorry to hear that your Ivy is not well, but want to thank you for taking such good care of her. My Elfie is 15 and was diagnosed at 10yoa. She has not had any seizures but has exhibited signs of "confusion" in the past 6 months. My vet attributes it to cognitive loss due to aging. She has a pituitary tumor but has done so well with her treatment that I tend to forget that it probably is slowly growing. I can't offer any medical advice, just moral support for you and Ivy. Good luck to you both!

[jmac]

Alan,
I am so, so sorry to hear that. I hope you are doing okay. You were wonderful to Ivy and were able to give her a very long, happy life. As her owner, you know what is best and when it "is time." Know that I am thinking of you...

Julie & Hannah

[mytil]

Oh Alan,

My heart is with you - I know you have done everything you could for your little girl. We will always remember and honor Ivy and I have had added your girl to our very special remembrance section - In Loving Memory (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2865)

((((hugs))))
Terry

[addy]

Dear Alan,

I am so sorry to hear the news of Ivy. I had so hoped the seizures would lessen in frequency.

Please know we are here for you any time you need to talk. My heart is heavy for you. I will continue prayers.

God Speed Ivy. Run happy and free, no more pain.

Love,
addy

[lulusmom]

Alan, I am so very sorry for your loss. Your were a tremendous advocate for your girl and she was very lucky to have been able to share her life with you. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Godspeed, sweet Ivy.

Glynda

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Alan,

My heart goes out to you in the loss of Ivy. She obviously received wonderful care and a great deal of love in her 16 years. And I know she returns that love 10-fold.

Your sweet Ivy is now free from all her pain, the seizure, and the ravages of old age; she is once again young, whole and full of vim and vinegar as she races across the Rainbow Fields. Ivy was met by many of our Angels who have crossed over. It is my firm belief that one day we will hold our babies once again, Alan. Til then, she will remain with you in spirit always.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal


The Last Battle

If it should be that I grow frail and weak
And pain should keep me from my sleep,
Then will you do what must be done,
For this -- the last battle -- can't be won.

You will be sad I understand,
But don't let grief then stay your hand,
For on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship must stand the test.

We have had so many happy years,
You wouldn't want me to suffer so.
When the time comes, please, let me go.

Take me to where to my needs they'll tend,
Only, stay with me till the end
And hold me firm and speak to me
Until my eyes no longer see.

I know in time you will agree
It is a kindness you do to me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I have been saved.

Don't grieve that it must be you
Who has to decide this thing to do;
We've been so close -- we two -- these years,
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

-- Unknown

[jmac]

Leslie-
I love that poem. It has me in tears. It describes it perfectly. Such a hard decision, but one that we know is necessary when the time comes.

Alan,
I hope it brings you some comfort at this tough time. Ivy really was a lucky girl...

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm so sorry Ivy's time came. At least she is no longer suffering. hugs, Judi

[k9diabetes]

I'm so sorry to learn of Ivy's passing. I know how difficult that decision was to come to and how painful. Ivy was lucky to have such a loving and devoted family.

Natalie

[Skye]

words can not ease the pain and sorrow....you gave selfishless in love and honor...bless you. You gave as you would hope someone would give to you.
The pain that sears your soul......think perhaps of it as not pain if you can in time....but of how you gave what was best for Ivy...and not of yourself....just as they place us unconditionally in their lives...you placed Ivy the same.....though i know to well the washing of grief, loss, bewilderment, being blinded by tears, but grateful to know hearts can love so immensely. You gave to Ivy and not to oneself. ((((hugs))))

[alan]

Thank you skye its going to take some time coming to terms with losing Ivy she had such a great personality, would not hurt a fly, lovely with kids, we live oppersite a school the kids would come to her and say look at the puppy even though she was so old. Love Alan. x

[Skye]

if you ever need to share memories...........please write! if you ever need to babble, snot cry ramble, write. Hope I can help ease the hurt your heart is feeling. (((((hugs))))

[jrepac]

Rest in peace Ivy.

Jeff & the Gang