Been there, Done that:Harley has crossed the bridge

[StarDeb55]

Yes, my vet mentioned this one. He said that he does not like it for this type of situation as it considerably lowers the seizure threshold. I told him the valium would be just fine.

Deb

[lulusmom]

Debbie, how awful that must have been for you. My mouth was hanging open when you described Harley's behavior and then I cracked up when I read about mellow yellow Chewy. I totally agree that Valium is in order for both of you. :D

Jojo had a dental done today and he is acting just like he did when we first got him. I was cleaning the goobers out of his eyes and he bit the crap out of my thumb....poked a hole in it and I thought it would never stop bleeding. The dogs swarmed him when he got home because they missed him. He totally freaked out and tried to bite anybody that came near him. I was still mad at him but I melted when he jumped up on the couch and put his head on my shoulder. I thought okay, I can clean his eyes now. Uh uh, the little turd bit me again on the same thumb but thank goodness not in the same place and it didn't break the skin. He ate good and hadn't stopped whining and pacing so I gave him some Tramadol and hope he goes to sleep for the night. I sure hope he is better tomorrow because I'm leaving and Gil is going to have to medicate him. He's on Clavamox and eye drops three times a day.

[gpgscott]

Deb,

That's terrible, I am sorry Harley had to go through so much anxiety.

I have been prescribed both ace and valium for Moria. The ace when she had a deep abscess which had not yet shown itself. It put her out but like the others I did not like it. Valium on the other hand works great and if we have to travel long distances in the car that is what we use.

Best of luck with future grooming. Scott

[StarDeb55]

Harley seems to be back to his perky, snotty, normal self. I think when he got his right eye hurt at the groomer at my vet's office last spring is what has triggered all of this. I know they remember these things. Maybe not specifically about his eye being hurt, but that he remembers that something bad happened while he was being groomed.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Debbie,

I'm glad Harley is back to his, as you put it, perky, snotty, normal self! :D

You are so right about our pups remembering things that they didn't like, I know when anyone else but me puts their hands near my boys rearend he has a tizzy fit, he's thinking rectal, NO WAY. :eek::rolleyes::eek:

Love and hugs.
Lori

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Oh Deb....

I'm sorry that you and Harley had this traumatic experience. Had something similar with Munch and a vet tech in early '08 and he still remembers to this day. Nobody can get close to his tail without repercussions and if a muzzle is put on he goes totally out of control.

Glad that Harley has recovered and is back to his normal self again.

Louise

[StarDeb55]

And an early Christmas present for us today!!!

Harley's weight today: 13.0 lbs.
10/23: 12.6 lbs

YAHOOOOO!!!!

He has been eating really well, & he doesn't feel bony at all, so I pretty much knew he was up. I am in the process of moving them from Primal to SoJo's raw food. I figured out that the Primal is costing me about $110 per month to feed, & I just can't afford that. Crap, that's more $$ than I spend on my groceries. Sojo's is dehydrated, mix with water, & let it sit, it's still a raw diet. I'm hoping that since it's dehydrated, it will be a little less expensive than Primal. I really don't want to go back to feeding canned food, even though I was buying the premium brands of canned.

Debbie

[acushdogsmom]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Always great to hear good news!

(((hugs all around!)))

[littleone1]

Hi Debbie,

I'm glad that Harley is doing better.

[BestBuddy]

Yay Harley.
I have a couple of extra pounds, could even make it a kilo or two, I could send to him.:p
Jenny

[Roxee's Dad]

And an early Christmas present for us today!!!

Harley's weight today: 13.0 lbs.
10/23: 12.6 lbs

Merry Christmas:) Glad he is doing so well:)

[frijole]

Way to go! Extra turkey for you tomorrow! Congrats. That food sounds interesting. Nice way to go raw without the fuss. Wonder where I could find that around here? LOL.

Like Jenny...I am happy to send a few pounds your way. :D Glad to hear things are looking up. Kim

[StarDeb55]

Kim, take a look & see if somebody has it near you.

http://www.sojos.com/

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Just need some input on this one as I'm somewhat puzzled. Over the past month approximately, Harley has been getting a stomach ache which probably includes vomiting, (I'm not going outside with a flashlight at 2AM to check), on his lyso days periodically. This is not happening with every single dose of lyso, probably 1 out of 5-6 doses. The vet has already ok'd giving him Pepcid an hour before he's given the lyso, but I hate giving him medication if he doesn't routinely need it. I'm asking now because last night was a lyso day, sure enough he got sick & was in/out most of the night. With my coughing from the stupid bronchitis, none of us got much sleep.

The vet is kind of puzzled about this one, too. The vet just laughs & says the little snot is a "puzzle wrapped in an enigma".:p:( This actually started way before I started switching dog food, so I pretty confident that the dog food switch really didn't have much to do with it.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Deb,

I'm sorry but I can't help you out with Harley's occasional episodes of what sounds like GI upset but I wanted to let you know about some stuff I found on Sojo food. I read your post and yes, Primal is really expensive and I'm feeding five so I spend no less than $250 a month. Sojo was sounding like a possible alternative so I started researching it. Everything I found mentioned that you should add raw meat/bones. Did you find one of their foods that is 100% complete? I couldn't find Sojo listed on dogfoodanalysis.com but then again, you won't find Primal or Natures Variety there either but I did find some information that I wanted to share. The link directly below is to an abstract found at JAVMA and below that is an exchange between the president of Sojourner Farms and the co-author of the JAVMA article and clinical case report.


http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.234.8.1041

Exchange re Sojo food found on http://healthierdogs.com/dog_food/more-on-sojos-home-made-style-dog-food/ between President of Sojourners Farms and co-author of the article and clinical case report in JAVMA:

Ward Johnson submitted a letter to the editor of JAVMA, which was published in the following issue of the JAVMA journal:
Regarding the article ”Diffuse osteopenia and myelopathy in a puppy fed a diet composed of an organic premix and raw ground beef“, we would like the opportunity to defend our reputation, based on 25 years of exemplary results..
Our time-tested pet food pre-mixes have been around since 1985 with a track record of consistently fantastic results. We have a loyal network of vets and breeders across the country that use and recommend our foods – there are tens of thousands of dogs using our foods. In all of that time that our foods have been around, this is the first time it has been suggested a link between any of our foods and any malnutrition cases like this. While our hearts go out to the dog and owner alike, we respectfully disagree that our food was the cause of this ailment. At the same time we don't want to minimize the severity of the situation, and as a precautionary measure we have again sent our foods in for independent chemical analysis to confirm our previous results.
It should be noted that we at Sojourner Farms believe variety is an essential part of a healthy diet, and thus strongly encourage pet owners to add veggies and other healthy foods to our mixes, in addition to meat. Though we're confident in the nutritional adequacy of our mixes, we believe that using only a chemical analysis to determine a food’s nutritional adequacy ignores crucial information on the biological availability and digestibility of a food. Digestive enzymes found in fresh food enhance biological availability, whereas extreme heat (common to the preparation of commercial pet foods) leads to the depletion of enzymes and, therefore, depressed levels of digestible energy. As a result we believe that all of our foods are more than adequate nutritionally.
In addition, nutrition experts have long advised against replacing all nutritious foods in the diet with synthetic supplements because supplements do not contain all of the known and unknown nutritional benefits of nutritious foods.
Our foods have been tested for nutritional content and they are all formulated to have a calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1.4:1. I am perplexed by the numbers published in this article. The only explanation that I can think of is that only a small sample was tested and not an entire bag. Our foods are not homogenous kibble. Finer ingredients, namely powders (like calcium carbonate and nutrient-rich kelp), settle toward the bottom of the bag. Thus, unless an entire bag of food was tested, the full spectrum of the ingredients would not be represented and thus the results would not be accurate.
Ward Johnson, President, Sojourner Farms


July 16, 2009
David Geiger said:
I am a co-author of the article and clinical case report mentioned here. An abstract of the publication can be viewed at http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.234.8.1041 The sick puppy described in the report was under my care through her illness and recovery. I am disappointed that Mr. Johnson has not been more forthcoming with accurate information about his products, either in 2006 when we first attempted to alert him to the serious calcium imbalance in his diet, or when we later published our findings in an international medical journal in an attempt to bring this information to light.
When the puppy was critically ill in our hospital, we strongly suspected that metabolic bone disease from calcium deficiency was to blame. While waiting for the results of specialized metabolic testing, we attempted to confirm our hypothesis by contacting Sojourner Farms, so that we might be certain how best to treat the puppy as soon as possible. To our surprise, Sojos refused to provide us with nutritional content information, and insisted that there could not be anything wrong with their product.
We did perform independent laboratory analysis of the diet (Sojourner Farms European Style Dog Food Mix), and both the lab's contact information as well as the detailed data were listed in our published report.
Anyone who has a basic understanding of nutrition is familiar with the importance of a balanced calcium/phosphorous content in the diet. A quick review of Sojo's ingredient list for the European Style Dog Food Mix showed that, in the 2006 formula, there were no ingredients which contain significant calcium. Worse, meat is high in phosphorous and contains little to no calcium. When mixed, the diet contained several sources of phosphorous and no significant source of calcium. The result was an 88% calcium deficiency when fed as per the instructions.
While most people feeding BARF and other raw-food diets are aware of the need to add bone meal, whole bones, or another high-calcium ingredient to offset this imbalance, Sojos made no such recommendations. I was able to find postings in multiple raw-diet discussion forums by individual pet owners pointing out the need to add calcium to Sojos food.
Sometime in the year following our phone calls to Sojourner Farms, the ingredient lists for their dog food mixes quietly changed, with a single ingredient added: calcium carbonate. Mr. Johnson has been very quick to point out the balanced calcium content of his new diets, which is now possible due to the addition of this additive. What he fails to mention is that this change was made several months after we brought the imbalance to the attention of his company.
Mr. Johnson is quick to dismiss our careful work by suggesting that "powders, like calcium carbonate settle to the bottom of the bag". Unfortunately, there never was any calcium carbonate in this puppy's food bag, nor in any other bag, until we discovered this problem and until after Sojourner Farms presumably quietly confirmed our findings with their own tests.
I have devoted my career and my life to advancing the health and well-being of animals. We decided to publish this report not only to share information about this puppy's disease (there is nothing at all new about rickets or metabolic bone disease!), but more importantly, to illustrate the dangers of feeding diets which have not been tested to ensure their nutritional balance. This was not an attempt to discredit natural, organic, or raw foods – we made no such points – but rather to use this error as an example to educate the veterinary community and the public about a growing risk. Whether you choose to cook your pet's food, buy organic, or otherwise, the nutrient balance is critical. This is why we have independent organizations that test and certify the ingredients in our food and the food that our pets eat.
Any food company can make a mistake – commercial operations like Sojourner Farms and other commercial pet food manufacturers are not perfect. The measure of a company's integrity is what they choose to do once a mistake has been brought to light – do they fix it with transparency and honesty, or with denial and a "sweep it under the carpet" attitude? How can consumers trust a company's claim to have a "perfect track record" when the same company denies clear proof that their product has caused an illness? How many other complaints have been ignored over the years? I am glad to have been able to help motivate the reformulation of Sojourner Farms' products to reduce the chances of another pet falling ill.
I will also note that the other imbalances in Sojo's previous European Style diet, most importantly a serious vitamin D deficiency, do not appear to have been corrected. I urge Mr. Johnson to submit his products for validation by AAFCO (the oversight group which protects pets and consumers by testing animal food to be sure it meets minimum nutritional content standards) so that further illnesses might be avoided. There are many reasons why healthy adult dogs may not fall ill eating these diets; as pointed out on the Sojos website, they are remarkably versatile at accommodating malnutrition when forced to. Puppies, geriatric dogs, and dogs already suffering from malnutrition or illness are at highest risk.
Our response to Mr. Johnson's above letter, which was published alongside it in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association last month, follows:
We appreciate the comments provided by Ward Johnson, President of Sojourner Farms. Our report was not an attempt to denigrate the quality of his product. Rather, our intent was to illustrate the importance of feeding a balanced diet. Our data demonstrating the nutritional imbalances of the Sojos European Style diet refer to the premix as formulated in 2006, when the puppy of our report became ill. We are pleased to now note Mr. Johnson’s assurance and Sojourner Farms’ advertising that the current premix formulation is supplemented to achieve a more appropriate calcium-to-phosphorus ratio. However, we reiterate our concern that when the premix is mixed with meat, as the product label instructs, the calcium-to-phosphorus ratio becomes substantially inverted. In addition, vitamin D, another nutrient whose deficiency contributed to the disease in our puppy, was not and still does not appear to be supplemented in the premix.
Sincerely,
David A. Geiger, DVM

[StarDeb55]

Glynda, what I'm purchasing is called complete. It definitely has turkey in it. Once I can get to the store, I intend to start adding plain yogurt to the food, too. All I can tell you is that both dogs love it. Mr. Fussy has even been cleaning his bowl until it's spotless. I will bring this information to the attention of the couple who run the dog bakery where I purchase all of my food from, as they can probably check into this a little better than I can, & probably get straight answers since they are a vendor. I know they would want to know as they are both huge dog lovers & would not want to be selling any product that might cause potential harm to someone's beloved pet.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

Deb,

Is Harley's current maint. dose still 250 mg / weekly split as 75, 100, 75? I'm just wondering if the 100 mg is bothering his tummy. Just a thought...

I hope you can soon find out what's bugging his tummy and you both are feeling well.

Love and hugs.
Lori

[StarDeb55]

Yes, that's the way the dose is being split. I had actually thought about that, & ran that by the vet about the bump in the dose being the problem. He really doesn't think so because the overall increase in mg./kg is minimal, 75 is 12.7 mg/kg, the 100 is 16.9 mg/kg. I may just try 75, 3x per for a couple of weeks to see. I hesitate to do it as I know from past history 225 mg. weekly will probably not hold his cortisol in check.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

I know you're not crazy about the Pepcid, but instead of adjusting his maint. dose back when you know it is working, maybe try the Pepcid before the 100 mg dose and see if it helps...what do you think?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[StarDeb55]

You're so smart, Lori! I had not thought about that, guess sickness has fried my brain.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

This is exactly what's so great about this forum and our family...all of our heads together thinking...especially when one of our own has bronchitis and can't think straight. :eek::p:) cause I know if you were feeling well you would of came up with that idea right away. ;):D

Love and hugs,
Lori

[StarDeb55]

And another dog food update. Glynda, I did pass on the info you sent me about Sojo's to one of the owner's of the dog bakery, she's very interested, & intends to make inquiries.

When I was out last week, they were out of big bags of Sojo's, so I came home with more samples, along with a sample of NRG dehydrated grainless salmon. I had to put the salmon out yesterday, & OMG, you would think I putting filet mignon in their dishes. I reviewed all the info on their website, & it looks like a reliable pet food product, so I just purchased a small bag. It's all natural, lots of nice veggies, et. For those of you who are interested:

http://www.nrgpetproducts.com/index.html

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

How are you feeling today? Have you tried Harley with the pepcid yet, and if so how did that work out?

Jane and Franklin xx
________
MERCEDES-BENZ 450 (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_450)

[StarDeb55]

Thanks for asking, Jane. I'm slowly on the mend as my doc added an antibiotic to everything else I'm taking, so I think a couple of days more, & I'm good.

On to Harley, nope, haven't used the Pepcid, yet. His 100 mg. lyso day will be tonight, & I think I will test it out, then. I like Lori's theory that the bump in dose on Weds. nights is the problem.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Well, we sailed through the 100 mg. lyso day without a problem. I did not premedicate with Pepcid, so I've got no idea as to how to approach this.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

No lyso tummy upsets until the 75 mg. last night. Who knows?

As you can see, my little old man has a brand new picture for my avatar. He is no longer sporting his "punk" look as Glynda likes to call it. The regular groomer came yesterday, & we did not have "high drama" like 6 weeks ago. This lady has tons of experience, & seems to be used to dealing with these cranky little senior citizens. She got here an hour early, just as I was going to give Harley the valium. I talked to her first, & I don't think she was exactly thrilled about me using it, but said to go ahead & try. She did admit to me that he does try to bite her, but has never connected. She knows enough to stop, give him a break for awhile, then continue, so he doesn't escalate things to the point of being completely out of control like the last appointment. I'm guessing her concern was that she was going to have to work on a dog who was totally sedated & "dead weight". I told her that I didn't think that was going to happen, that the valium dose was just enough to mellow Harley out some & take the edge off. When she was finished, I asked her about using the valium in the future. She said to go ahead & continue as it did help as the "little snot" was not quite the challenge he normally is.;):p:eek:

Cushing's wise, he seems to be doing fine except for the occasional tummy upset as I've mentioned previously. He has no symptoms, pretty much sleeps through the night, so I'm pretty confident that his cortisol remains at an acceptable level. The next stim is not due until February, so we will maintain the status quo.

Debbie

[gpgscott]

Hi Deb,

We give Moria ranitidine once daily. Whichever one of the otc meds you use I think it is important to do it daily espcially when administering Lysodren.

Best to you and Harley.

Sorry I have not replied much of late, I am looking in as much as I can.

Scott

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Deb,

Love Harley's new haircut and the avatar is awesome. ;):D Also glad to hear that the grooming lady survived and with all her fingers intact. :eek::)

As for his periodically upset tummy/vomiting, I believe you had mentioned that Harley had gall bladder issues before, do you think his gall bladder is having a flare-up and causing these episodes?

Oh, If only our pups could talk to us! :p:)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[StarDeb55]

Lori, it's very possible that it's a GB issue. If I would be able to see what's coming up when he vomits, I would know for sure, but I'm not going outside with a flashlight at 2AM to check.:rolleyes:;) Just so you know, if it looks this nice pumpkin orange color, that's bile, & that means it's gallbladder. It's just puzzling as it's been a good 2 weeks at least since the last tummy upset. I hate to give him the Pepcid all the time, if he doesn't need it, but I may have to strongly consider it.

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

I noticed your new avatar pic, and originally thought you'd changed from regular Harley to baby pic Harley. A haircut wasn't in my thought process :o

Happy to hear that he had a much less stressful time getting his "new do" :D

I hope you figure out Harley's possible GB issue.

All the best,

Jane and Franklin xx
________
BUY VAPIR OXYGEN (http://www.vaporshop.com/oxygen-vaporizer.html)

[gpgscott]

I hate to give him the Pepcid all the time, if he doesn't need it, but I may have to strongly consider it.
Debbie

Deb,

I share your concern about chronic administration of meds. Please re-think this.

Moria is better from the daily admin of tummy meds (in our case ranitidine) and she also benefits from routine antibiotics.

Scott

[StarDeb55]

Harley's behavior is troubling me tonight, so that's why I'm up, again. I know I mentioned the horrible meltdown he had during grooming about 7 weeks ago. Both boys went to see the eye vet yesterday, Chewy was his usual mellow self. Harley announced immediately that he wanted no part of what had to be done when the vet tech tried to do his tear test. So Dr. Felchle, one of her residents, & the vet tech come back to the room, I step out thinking that if I'm not in there, the little snot might cooperate a little better. OOOOOhhh, NOOOO! I hear the same kind of screaming & carrying on like with the groomer. This stopped quite quickly. I came back in after a few minutes & Dr. Felchle was quite shocked, said he fought them like a demon. They got a muzzle on him which he popped off immediately, so she had to chuck any idea of doing a tear test as he was, again, trying to bite anyone who got within reach. The funny thing is that the minute she turned the light out in the exam room, Harley quit with all the crap. She managed to get the rest of the exam done with no further trauma.

He gives me no grief at home with the eye meds. I worked out a system a number of months ago which I mentioned that has worked like a charm. I put him up on the kitchen counter which he now knows that this means eye meds, & if he cooperates there is a treat at the end for him. Very rarely does he offer any objection.

These 2 incidents are really bothering me as Harley has always been the most mild mannered, well behaved little dog I have ever been around. The thought now crosses my mind that with this kind of sudden behavioral change, I'm wondering if this might be the presence of macrotumor rearing its ugly head, or simply a cognitive problem due to old age?

I'm open for any & all thoughts.

Debbie

Deb

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

I hope there is nothing sinister going on. I really hope Harley was just having a bad day.

Jenny

[frijole]

Deb, I just wanted to share that Haley has cataracts and has limited sight. She is to the point where any movement directly in front of her scares her to death. She also does not like to sit still and cuddle which was always her "thing". I feel awful for my groomer as it is nearly impossible to do a schnauzer cut. She too prefers rooms with limited lighting. Not sure that I have helped but... just sharing. Hang in there. Kim

[littleone1]

Hi Debbie,

I don't know anything about that kind of tumor.

My friend's ShihTzu was attacked by another dog about 2 1/2 years ago and had extensive damage to his neck and throat. Now, every time he goes to the vet, he does the same thing that Harley did. Has Harley had any trauma related to a visit to a vet?

Terri

[StarDeb55]

I know his limited vision has a lot to do with it, but up until the past several months he was coping ok with anyone messing around his head/eyes. The only thing that happened at the vets was the groomer who worked at the vets was doing his grooming last spring & hurt his right eye. I'm convinced he associates something bad with grooming, but maybe not specifically that his eye got hurt.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Terri, just to continue your Cushing's education, here's what a macrotumor is. Normally in pit Cushing's, it's a microtumor in the pit gland that is causing the adrenals to over-secrete cortisol due to the tumor continually producing ACTH. In some cases, this microtumor can begin to enlarge & become a macrotumor. The distinction between the 2 is strictly by size which, I believe, a macro is anything >1 cm. in diameter.

Debbie

[littleone1]

Thanks, Debbie.

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

Is there any chance he was just having a cranky day on those occasions? When I try and put ear solution in Franklin's ears, he fights and struggles like you would not believe, and then he's fine after it's all done.

I hope it's nothing serious with Harley.

Jane and Franklin xx
________
SSK (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_SSK)

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Debbie,
I have been thinking about this all day and really, we might never know why Harley has become so difficult lately.

He may relate pain and injury to anything that smells like groomer or vet since his eye injury happened at both, one in the same place. Maybe you could try to get a friend to give Harley his eye meds at your place to see how he reacts. Not a vet or a groomer since we all have this dreaded scent that most dogs don't like.:eek: Seriously, I can take a dog from an owner and we walk around the yard, get belly rubs, play a little bit but as soon as I open the van door, they are eager to get in until they get a whif of the shampoo...then they are looking for a quick escape route.:o:eek:

Age could definetely be a factor. Rozee is about 14 1/2 now and has become a bit difficult when it come to being groomed. I ususally let her coat grow out during the winter months but that means alot of brushing and combing to keep it from matting. Well now she moans, groans and yipes at the littlest tug on her hair. Just told Pattee that next time I groom her I'm going to cut her hair shorter because she doesn't enjoy being brushed anymore, actually she hates it.:(

Macro :eek: I really hope and pray it's not that!

[StarDeb55]

I had to post this as I find it rather interesting. I have been mixing in a good, heaping spoonful of plain nonfat yogurt with both dog's food at meal time, since the beginning of this month. Harley has had no further episodes of GI upset since the addition of the yogurt, so I'm thinking that the yogurt is acting like a probiotic to settle his GI tract. I certainly hope this continues.

Behavior wise, Harley had another meltdown at the eye vets last week. The vet tech & I tried to start with him first. Harley proceeded to make it very clear that he wanted no part of the whole deal. The vet tech did the preliminary exam on Chewy, then said she was going to get Dr. Fechle. Dr. Fechle came in with one of her residents, & the vet tech. I suggested that I step out, & maybe he might act a little better if I wasn't in the room. Chewy & I waited outside, & within about a minute, Harley starts the same screaming routine he did with the groomer. This lasted very briefly. I came back into the exam room in a couple of minutes. Dr. Fechle was shocked at His Highness' behavior. She said that they did get a muzzle on him which he popped off immediately, so she had to completely chuck doing a tear test on him. The remainder of the exam is done with the light turned off in the room, & she said the minute the light was turned off, Harley cut out the crap, & let her finish. Overall, she was pleased with the exam, but suggested that a dose of valium prior to the next appointment would be a good idea. I chuckled & said that I had already decided that while I was waiting outside. She was concerned that Harley was giving me grief trying to doctor his eyes at home. I said he used to, but I have worked out a system, using treats to bribe him to cooperate, & now, he very rarely gives me any trouble. She said, whatever works, & that getting the medicine at home is the most important, they would just have to deal with his psycho behavior on the appointments.

From Harley, Chewbacca, & myself, to all of you, Have a very Merry Christmas, & a joyous, peaceful holiday season! Tomorrow is our Christmas, as I will be working Christmas day. It just comes with the job I do, so it's not big deal.

Debbie

[gpgscott]

Hi Deb,

Many of us use plain yogurt, I use it off and on and also give Moria acidophilus caps. I think it is a good thing. I think it is also important to point out that the non fat versions are lots higher in carbs (sugars) than the regular versions.

Talo's is refusing to go into the vet's office under his own locomotion these days. He walks right up to the door and then just refuses to go in. I have to pick him up and carry him. He is not nasty with any of the people but I think he associates the office with being seperated with me.

Scott

[Franklin'sMum]

Merry Christmas and a wonderful holiday season to you and yours as well, Debbie, love from me and mine :)

Jane and Franklin xx
________
Toyota Aa (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_AA)

[littleone1]

Hi Debbie,

I was also giving plain fat free yogurt to Corky , but because of the sugar, I did switch to low fat free plain yogurt.

I'm sorry you're still having issues with Harley. Corky doesn't like to go to his vet, even though he really likes him. As soon as he gets out of the car, he pulls in the opposite direction of the door. Even though he now only weighs 18.5 pounds, he is very strong. I really believe it's because he associates all of the pain he's been through with his surgeries. He doesn't do this when he goes to his IMS.

I hope you have a wonderful day tomorrow to celebrate Christmas. I also use to work on Christmas day, so I know where you're coming from!

[Roxee's Dad]

From Harley, Chewbacca, & myself, to all of you, Have a very Merry Christmas, & a joyous, peaceful holiday season! Tomorrow is our Christmas, as I will be working Christmas day. It just comes with the job I do, so it's not big deal.


Merry Christmas to you Harley and Chewy.

[StarDeb55]

Harley tagged along with me & Chewy to the vet this morning as Chew needed a follow-up UA done. Harley had not had weight check since Thanksgiving so we were a little over due. I was not too worried as he has been eating really well. I was actually hoping for a bit of a weight gain but no luck.

Today: 12.9 lb
Thanksgiving: 13.0

He's stable, so I'll take it. His next stim is not due until the end of February, but my BOSS is still symptom free, sleeping through the night pretty much, with a rare trip to get a drink. All of that tells me his cortisol is stable for now.

Debbie

[Roxee's Dad]

Great news Deb! :D:D:D:D:D:D 12.9 ... 13.0 could be the vet's scale but it sounds about right for a Shih-Tzu ???

Glad the boys are doing well. :):):)

[Harley PoMMom]

I had to post this as I find it rather interesting. I have been mixing in a good, heaping spoonful of plain nonfat yogurt with both dog's food at meal time, since the beginning of this month. Harley has had no further episodes of GI upset since the addition of the yogurt, so I'm thinking that the yogurt is acting like a probiotic to settle his GI tract. I certainly hope this continues.


Debbie

Debbie,

Like John said...12.9 ~ 13.0...could be the vets scale, and I've been wanting to ask...is the yogurt still helping?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[StarDeb55]

Yes, Lori, yogurt is a wonderful thing. Harley has had absolutely no instances of GI upset at ALL. I can always tell when he has a tummy ache as he gets a severe case of the hiccups, & he hasn't even had the hiccups.

Debbie

I did switch to low fat yogurt after Scott's post.

[lulusmom]

Debbie,

Like John said...12.9 ~ 13.0...could be the vets scale, and I've been wanting to ask...is the yogurt still helping?

Love and hugs,
Lori

A healthy poop before the last vet visit could explain the difference too. Looks like the little twirp, as you call him so endearingly, is holding steady. Congrats!

[StarDeb55]

Yep, that could be it!!:rolleyes:;) Unfortunately, I've got a weight problem with Chewy that his dumb parent caused & I feel kind of bad about it. I knew in the past week or so that Chewy felt awfully bony. His weight today confirmed it. He is down to 17.4 lbs. from right about 20 lbs. That NRG dogfood I switched both dogs to around 7 weeks ago has a pretty high calorie count, 500kcal per cup. I did not want to overfeed Chewy as he has a gigantic appetite anyway. His dumb parent cut the groceries back too much. The vet tech calculated amount for me which works out to be 1 1/4 cups per day. Chewy is now in 7th heaven as he will be getting 1 1/2 cups daily until his weight gets back up. Needless to say, there will be regular weight checks for him every couple of weeks, now, too. I do feel bad about this as insufficient calories probably has something to do with that bald spot, & his thinning hair not really regrowing since he started his allergy shots.

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

It's not going to make you feel any better about Chewy, but please don't feel guilty that he's lost some weight. I'm not a nutritionist, and maybe the smaller meal was contributing to the bald spot and thinning hair, but did you know at the time that it might happen? No. You possibly thought he'd gobble any food you offered him, and then maybe have a weight problem in the other direction. Especially eating a higher calorie food. You're on top of the situation now, Debbie, and soon Chewy will be back to his normal weight. :)

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA (http://medicalmarijuanacard.info)

[StarDeb55]

Weight check today was one good, one not so good. Harley has been on a moderate hunger strike for the past couple of weeks & his weight reflects it. Guess it's time to starting adding the NutriCal back to his meals.

3 weeks ago: 12.9 lbs
Today: 12.1 lbs.

His next stim is due around the 20th, & I don't think I'm going to delay as I have noticed that my cranky little old man is starting to guzzle water like a beer drinker at Oktoberfest, again. He's also frequently peeing in the house. We don't have a lot of "wiggle room" to adjust his lysodren dosage as max dose of 50 mg/kg based on an average weight of 12.5 lbs. would be 284 mg. per week. Right now, he is at 250 mg. I suppose instead of splitting the dose as 75, 100, 75; we could take it up to 100, 75, 100. Right now, this is sure speculation on my part until the stim is done but based on symptoms, I will almost bet his cortisol is creeping up.:eek::(

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Harley is a tough nut to crack. You'd think if the cortisol was on the rise, his appetite would be increasing. Talk about never reading the book. Not sure if you remember but Lulu's post stim was 11 and miraculously we managed to get it down by increasing the maintenance dose. I'm not sure anybody has had much success in doing that with a stim higher than 9 or 10 but leave it to my Lulu to pull it off. :D She weighs about 4.6 lbs and is on maintenance of 180mg per week divided by three. That equates to about 84 or 85 mg per kg. Jojo is now 6.7 lbs and is also on a maintenance of 180mg per week which is about 59mg or 60mg per kg. Both have been stable for well over six months. It is not uncommon to have maintenance doses much higher that the recommended loading dose so don't be afraid to increase the maintenance dose if you need too.

[StarDeb55]

An increase in the maintenance dose will probably help as his last stim on 10/23 was a post of 8.4, so he really is not that far off. I just don't want to go much over 50 mg/kg, as my vet has indicated to me previously that in his experience, he has seen inappetance issues come up with doses >50 mg/kg. Harley & his appetite are such a pain in my backside, I don't want to take the chance.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Lulu and Jojo have never had a problem with eating so I can't relate to inappettance around here (that includes me too). I think there is a much higher risk of upsetting the stomach if you increase an existing daily dose rather than spreading out the doses more evenly throughout the week. For instance, if Harley is currently getting 75-100-75, then increase it to 75-75-75-75. Just a thought.

[lulusmom]

Deb, I've been thinking about something else and wanted to bounce it off of you. I've heard that as dogs age, their sense of smell can decline which can affect their interest in food. Most small dogs, especially brachycephalic breeds, have a less acute sense of smell anyway so with Harley's advancing age, maybe his sniffer needs a pick me up with something really stinky like Parmesan cheese. I've heard that the sight and smell of green tripe may make us humans gag but it's reported that most dog's absolutely love it, plus it's great for the digestive tract. Have you tried either of these things yet?

[StarDeb55]

Harley is back from his stim. Should have results by Saturday at the latest. I will say up front that if I were a betting person, I'm betting right now his cortisol has gone up. The bad news is that his weight has dropped to 11.7 lbs. I knew it had as his appetite has been terrible for the past several weeks to the point that I have started adding NutriCal to his meals for the extra calories. The real problem is that with the weight drop, my boss is just about at the upper limit of 50 mg/kg. Based on today's weight, a weekly maintenance dose of 50 mg/kg is 265 mg., he is at 250 mg right now. Just have to see what the results look like.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

DANG IT!!! I hate being right all of the time, or it's a case of I know this little guy way to well. I have the results of Thurs. stim, & yes, his levels have gone up.

2/25
Pre:4.2
Post: 10.5

10/09
Pre: 3.2
Post: 8.4

I knew it as I posted on Thursday, he has been drinking water like it's going out of style & his appetite has gone down the toilet. Anyway, his dose will be going up to 300 mg. weekly from 250 mg. This means he is now at 57 mg/kg, so Ms. Eagle Eye here will need to keep track of him pretty close as I get kind of fidgety going over the 50 mg/kg range. I know that he really should be re-tested in a month, but I made a deal with the vet which he agreed to. Finances are kind of tight, right now, especially with Chewy needing a follow-up with the derm vet. So the deal is, if Harley's symptoms start subsiding within the next month, the vet is willing to let the next stim wait until the end of May. If I don't see any improvement in symptoms, I agreed that we would re-stim in 1 month. Please keep your fingers crossed that things start improving for the little snot as Mom's pocketbook could use a break.

Debbie

[frijole]

Deb, don't faint but I raised Haley to 750 mgs a week (from 625 her load amt). She has lost weight so she is currently at 107 mgs/kg!

Cushy found a quote, I believe from Feldman, that made me feel more comfortable that it does sometimes happen.. Hang in there! Kim

[StarDeb55]

Glynda, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your suggestions for appetite enhancement. Green tripe is totally out. I tried some of the Merrick canned food that contained tripe, & just about lost it when I opened the can. I used th 2 cans I bought, but swore I would never buy it, again. I think he is quite tired of this NRG food that I've been feeding for about 3 months, but it may be due to the fact that I have been feeding only 1 flavor. I have to head over to the dog bakery to buy food for him tomorrow, so I'm thinking about going back to Merrick canned, or if the other flavor of NRG is available that would be my first choice.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Debbie, I cracked up when I read about your almost losing it when you opened up the can of food with tripe. I've never smelled the stuff but I hear it's ghastly, especially if you go for the good stuff which is the green tripe which has been untouched, uncleaned, etc. Eeewww!

By the way Lulu has been at 81 mg/kg for as long as I can remember.

[StarDeb55]

Let me tell you to dispose of those empty Merrick cans that contained the tripe, I washed them thoroughly with bleach/water, still stunk. So I put them in a ziplock, then tied them up in a grocery store bag before I would even put them in my garbage to got to the curb.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

I went to buy dog food after work today as I finally used up the 10 lb. box of NRG salmon last night. I really suspected that part of the little snot's lack of appetite lately was the fact that he's sick of eating the same flavor of dog food for the past 2 months. I bought chicken flavor NRG, & I was SOOOO RIGHT, the snot licked the dish so clean, a person could eat from it!:eek::D:o

Debbie

[AlisonandMia]

Let me tell you to dispose of those empty Merrick cans that contained the tripe, I washed them thoroughly with bleach/water, still stunk. So I put them in a ziplock, then tied them up in a grocery store bag before I would even put them in my garbage to got to the curb.

Debbie

One good way to lock away bad smells is to use one of those foil bags that things like potato chips, corn chips etc. come in. You sticky tape it shut. I carry one when walking to put the plastic bag with the poop in it until I can find a bin - keeps the pong under control very nicely. In that situation I roll the top down and secure it with a bulldog clip and reuse it until it develops tiny holes and so stops working. I'm a real wimp when it comes to nasty smells!

Alison

[mypuppy]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU HARLEY....ENJOY TODAY AND IM SURE YOU WILL BE GETTING SOME EXTRA SPECIAL LOVE FROM YOUR MOMMY TODAY....HAPPIEST DAY....WE LOVE YOU....JEANETTE AND PRINCESS:p:)

[StarDeb55]

Yesterday was the last dose of the first full week on the increased maintenance dose of 300 mg./week for Harley. The little man sailed through the first 2 doses without a problem. Last night, his belly ache returned with a vengeance about 3AM, so I'm not sure whether to place the blame on the increase in the lyso or something else. He refused breakfast this morning which I fully well expected, but seems better, now, as he happily ate a chicken jerky strip when I got home from buying groceries.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

I haven't really said anything about Harley overall health status in the past couple of months, but I am gradually becoming more concerned. It's not one specific thing, not Cushing's, not inappetance, just nothing I can specifically put my finger on. All I can say is that he is definitely becoming more frail. He seems happy enough, is eating well enough that I'm not hysterical about inappetance, but at 15 years old, I know that he has far fewer days ahead of him. At this point in time, I'm happy that we can face every day together, & will do everything that I can to make sure he is happy & comfortable.

His Cush symptoms, after 6 weeks, at the increase in his maintenance dose have pretty much vanished, so his next stim isn't due until the end of May.

Debbie

[Dollydog]

It's hard to see them becoming more frail.....enjoying every day and keeping them comfortable is all we can do. Wishing you many more comfortable days with Harley, Debbie.
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel :)

[frijole]

Deb, Glad that Harley is still ticking and cushings is under control, appetite back in check. You have done a tremendous job and should be proud of that. The age thing is difficult to watch. Just know you are doing all you can and enjoy every minute you have with your little guy. Thanks for the update. Kim

[StarDeb55]

Well, not a lot to report for the little twerp! I did take him with us to Chewy's vet appointment yesterday for a weight check. The good news is his weight is up:

5/13: 12.5 lbs.
Mid Feb.: 12.1 lbs

I suspect he may have dropped below 12 in the intervening 3 months, but just couldn't quite get him to the vet for a weight check. He is being a little demon again about his eye drops, so I'm trying to work out a new system to get him to cooperate. He did go about 4 straight days without them over this past week, so needless to say, his eyes got to be a red, weepy mess. I finally just took the "bull by the horns" about 3 days ago, & the new system seems to be working. Unfortunately, he's got matted hair around his eyes from dried eye goop. I'll see what can do about that in the next few days.

Debbie

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Deb,

Glad that Harley is doing ok with his weight. So he's being a demon doggie re his eyedrops, huh. Harlely, you little devil, stop giving your Mom a hard time - ya' hear! It's all for your own good. :D

Louise

[StarDeb55]

Well, when I say Harley is being a little demon about his eye drops, that is an absolute understatement. We just got back from spending 3 hours at the emergency clinic. Let me explain what happened. As I've said previously, I've been putting Harley on the kitchen counter to give him eye drops which has worked well until about the past 10 days. I tried yesterday morning, he started fighting me like a demon, managed to pull out of my arms, & flipped himself off the counter approximately 3 ft. or so to a tile floor, before I could grab him. He bounced right up, was walking fine, so I left for work. He seemed fine last night, but when I got home this afternoon, the little twerp is limping like a fiend, & hardly using his right rear leg. As the ER vet said that was a huge fall for such a little guy, & she would feel more comfortable taking x-rays. I told her to go ahead as I was worried sick he might have fractured something. They are so good at hiding things, you never know. X-rays were negative for any fracture clear down to his right rear paw. The ER vet did point out to me that it does look like there is some swelling in the upper right of the right rear leg which is probably why he's hurting. She couldn't get a good exam on him as, I guess, his leg was hurting bad enough that he would not let the vet manipulate it. He is now on tramadol for pain, & rest/restriction for the next 5-7 days. Rest/restriction won't be a problem as I told the ER vet, we are all couch potatoes at my house as it is. They did give him an injection for pain, so he really was not interested in eating supper when we got home. I did feed him a few of the soft treats that I have been using as a bribe for the eye drops, so he wouldn't go totally without eating. Needless to say, the kitchen counter is now off-limits for eye drops. If Harley had fallen, & landed straight on his paws, he probably would have broken his leg. Mom is very ashamed of herself at the moment, & will be begging forgiveness for quite awhile. Just somebody please tell me how to get his eyedrops in without so much drama & trauma for both of us.:p:eek:

When it rains, it pours.

Debbie

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Oh, Debbie, what a nerve shattering experience! Glad Harley didn't fracture anything. The pain shot and rest should fix him up. This is probably a dumb question to ask as Mr. Harley seems to have "attitude", but would he let you put an ice pack on that leg to help with the swelling? Wish I had some words of wisdom about the eye drop situation but I've not been faced with the problem you're experiencing.

Sometimes accidents happen so don't beat yourself up, Mom. I'll bet Harley has already granted you his forgiveness. Now it's a matter of saying bye-bye to the guilt and forgiving yourself. You've taken excellent care of Harley and he knows it!

Louise

[AlisonandMia]

Sounds like a ghastly experience.:eek::eek::eek:

What I used to do with Mia if I put her on a table for any reason was to put her walking harness on her and loop the lead around my arm or keep a hand firmly on the harness somewhere if I didn't need both hands. I even did this on the exam table at the vet as she was 9.5lbs of pure muscle and if she had decided to really go for it wriggling-wise I doubt if we could have kept her off the floor. She never did try to "bail out" but if she had at least she wouldn't have hit the floor!

Alison

[frijole]

Glad the little guy is OK. Don't be too hard on yourself... could have happened to any of us. Haley goes nuts due to her blindness when I mess with her eyes. I have to go from behind her to put in drops or clean them. Kim

p.s. Warning on the tramadol. I gave Haley the recommended dosage and she was loopy. I was up all night worrying about her and she had the runs all over the place. Several members all shared the same experience and had to go LOWER with the dosing. Haley is 14.5 lbs and she is taking 1/4 of a pill. The vet originally prescribed 1/2.

[StarDeb55]

Thanks for the warning, Kim. The ER vet said 1/2 pill & His Honor is only 12.5. He had a pain injection at the clinic, so I don't have to worry about it until morning.

Deb

[frijole]

Thanks for the warning, Kim. The ER vet said 1/2 pill & His Honor is only 12.5. He had a pain injection at the clinic, so I don't have to worry about it until morning.

Deb

Forgot to mention Haley was walking into walls and then just standing there staring at them. Gave me quite a fright.... it was just the drug. Once I reduced it she was fine.

[gpgscott]

Hey Deb,

What a terrible feeling it must have been to see him fall like that. It is so hard to fight them when they are uncooperative esp around the eyes.

Hoping the pain meds keep him comfortable while he mends.

Sorry I don't have any good advice about the eye drops.

Scott

[labblab]

Hi Deb,

Oh boy, I can surely sympathize about the eyedrop dilemma. I don't know how I'd be able to manage Peg all by myself! Fortunately, I've got hubby to help me when it's time for Peg's eyedrops (and/or eardrops...).

FWIW, here's one suggestion that a friend has given me, although I've not tried it myself. And this might be easier to accomplish with a big dog than a little one like Harley. But if there's anything "goopy" that Harley likes to eat (such as peanut butter or cream cheese), she suggests spreading some on an easily washable surface such as a fridge door. If you can coax the little guy over to stand and lick the "treat," you then straddle him from behind and box him in. Hopefully the treat will still hold his attention a bit, as you steady his head in order to administer the drops.

As I say, I've not given this a try. But I still thought I'd pass it on as a possibility...:o

Good luck, and I hope Harley is soon feeling better again.
Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Just got home, Harley appears to be gimpy, so I will give him a pain pill. I must give the ER vet credit. I went to give him a tramadol this morning, opened the bottle, & 1/4 tablets fall in my hand. I look at the instructions on the bottle, "Give 1/4 tab every 6-8 hours for pain". Looks like this is an ER vet who has their stuff together.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

But if there's anything "goopy" that Harley likes to eat (such as peanut butter or cream cheese), she suggests spreading some on an easily washable surface such as a fridge door. If you can coax the little guy over to stand and lick the "treat," you then straddle him from behind and box him in. Hopefully the treat will still hold his attention a bit, as you steady his head in order to administer the drops.

I think these instructions might be easier for a bigger dog. I am giggling just thinking about how Deb or I would straddle and box in our little ones from behind without blowing out a kneecap. :D:D:D:D

[frijole]

Fantastic. Hope they do the trick.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Deb,
Wish I was there already....I had a little demon Lhaso (Bailee) both in grooming around the eyes and his daily eye meds, I found that by holding by the chin hair, it gave me control of his face. I didn't dare let go if I wanted to keep my fingers. Held him by the chin hairs with my left hand on the couch and rested my right hand on his forehead with the eye drops between finger and thumb.

Guess I can show you when I get there.

[StarDeb55]

Well, I tried putting the demon dog in the bathtub & sitting with him to do his eye drops. FORGET IT!!!!:(:eek: He just got 1/2 valium & will try again in about an hour. I've got to get them in tonight as his right eye looks horrible.

John, both of us can't wait. I will take whatever help/suggestions/demonstrations that you have up your sleeve. At the rate we're going, he's going to end up with a massive eye infection which can't be treated because he won't let you get the meds in his eyes.

Debbie

[mypuppy]

Hi Debbie,
So sorry for Harleys scary fall. Yes, when it rains it pours it seems with these pups of ours. So glad he only had a little sprain though. He really is a little "twerp" huh! Haaaaaaaaaa! That is so funny you call him that. I call my little one that when she climbs my kitchen cabinets to steal snacks-- glad it's not to get eyedrops in on her. LOL.
As for eyedrops, geez! I can't believe Harley gives you such a hard time. Princess suffers from dry eyes constantly and she needs drops everyday for life but thank God I don't have to put a 70 lb dog on kitchen counter or tub to administer them. I'm laughing out loud just visualizing that image. Haaaaaaaaaa. I must admit she doesn't enjoy getting her eyedrops or ears cleaned but she's pretty good and just sits for it. I wrap my entire hand around her mouth and nose and tilt it up and drop in each eye. Wish it were that easy for you. And Marianne I too am giggling with your suggestion. That is just hilarious, but who knows it may work for Debbie with the little twerp. Debbie I hope you get those in him soon. Those eye issues are so nasty. Take care of you and warmest regards. Xo Jeanette

[StarDeb55]

We went to the eye vet this morning. Even with 1/2 tab valium, Harley still had a major freak out. The vet managed to get the tear test done in his right eye which was good at 20mm., but he popped the muzzle off, & basically said "Lady, you are not putting that stinking piece of tape in my left eye!!!" Anyway, the good news is the little demon dog is not blind like I thought. He does have low level vision left which the vet described as "looking through a piece of wax paper." I told her about the fall, & what a problem child he is, now, about his eye meds. We have gone to drops totally as I think he really objects to any ointment. The real concern is there is a tiny fluid filled blister on the surface of his right eye which has probably been there for 6 weeks or so. It does not appear to be enlarging, but she said that it is taking up stain like it's starting to get infected. She said that these blisters can also be quite painful. I did mention that I have seen Harley frequently rubbing the right side of his face on things, like that eye might be sore. She has put him on antibiotic drops which she hopes I can get in 2x per day. After he demonstrated his "demon dog" side, again. the vet is totally understanding, & hopes that I can at least get the 3 drops in once daily.

Debbie

[gpgscott]

Deb,

What about an inhaled agent, like nitrous?

Has to be an easier way.

Scott

[StarDeb55]

Scott, I asked her if she wanted me to just give him the full 5mg. of valium on the next trip in. She said no that he did just fine. The weird thing about this is that he let the vet take a pair of hemostats & some scissors, trimming up the matted, gunky hair around his eyes, but he wanted no part of the tape in the eye for the tear test.

Debbie

[Bichonluver3]

Great news, debbie!!! go team!!!

[StarDeb55]

Yeeeeeee HaaaaH! PARTY TIME AT MY HOUSE!!!!!!

Harley went for his stim yesterday.
2/10-dosage 250 mg./weekly
Pre:4.2
Post: 10.5

6/18/10-current dose 300 mg/weekly
Pre: 3.0
Post: 5.8

This are the best numbers he has ever had in the 2 1/2 years since diagnosis. I figured he was doing pretty good as he is sleeping like the dead during the night, he absolutely does not get up for anything. In fact, on work days, I have to wake him up & make him go out, before I put down breakfast, lock the boys up in their pen, & head out.

I am ECSTATIC!!!!

Debbie

[gpgscott]

And Happy Party here with you.

:D

Scott

[BestBuddy]

Great news. Enjoy the party!

Jenny

[Harley PoMMom]

:D:) Congratulations!! :):D I'd be ecstatic with them numbers too!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[frijole]

Me three! Have one for me. :)

[apollo6]

so great to hear. Ah!!!!

[StarDeb55]

Sonja, I did want to point out to you since you are one of our new members & may not be totally familiar with Harley's history. Harley is a lysodren pup, not trilostane. I chose lysodren for him when he was diagnosed as it is the drug I know. My first cushpup, Barkley, was successfully treated with lyso for nearly 8 years. I just didn't want you thinking that Harley is a trilo pup.

Deb

[StarDeb55]

Unfortunately, I forgot the bad news, his weight, of course.

5/13: 12.5 lbs.
6/18: 11.9 lbs.

I knew it was down as he has been on a semi-hunger strike the past couple of weeks. I stopped & picked up some Nutrical this afternoon to add to his meals, simply to get the extra calories in him.

Debbie

[mypuppy]

I am so glad for you and Harley, Debbie. Hope the party was a lot of fun--lol. Xo Jeanette

[zoesmom]

Mah-ve-lous . . . .simply mah-ve-lous! How many here would give their eye tooth for numbers like those? Now EAT, Harley. Sue

[Franklin'sMum]

Woo-Hoo-ing along with you, Debbie. Good luck fattening that puppy up

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[Casey's Mom]

Great news Deb!!!

Love and hugs,

[StarDeb55]

Well, my internal alarm bell is now going off. This is the 3rd straight night that Harley has gone to bed & shortly after starts coughing his little head off. I can't say if he's doing it during the day as today was my first day off, but I will be paying close attention in the morning. The other thing that has triggered the alarm is that when I was putting in his eye drops this morning, I was holding his head up, had very slight pressure on this throat, the pressure triggered another round of coughing. This sounds like a possible case of kennel cough. I will be calling the vet first thing in the AM. Hopefully, we can get in, even if we have to see the new vet. I remember when Harley had KC one other time, about the time his Cushing's was diagnosed. I came home from work one day, & within a matter of a few minutes I could tell that something was absolutely not right with him. The vet got us right in when I called. The vet came in the exam room, had the same reaction I did when I got home. He could tell in a couple of minutes that something was wrong with the little demon dog. All the vet did to diagnose him was press on his throat which triggered a horrible round of coughing. My vet looked at me & said, "He's got kennel cough."

Yes, he's up to date on his kennel cough vaccine, but the vet told me the first time around that they can still contract it, even with the vaccine. All I know is I don't want to let this go through the weekend.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Deb.

This may sound weird but if one of my dogs is coughing, my biggest fear is heart problems or collapsing trachea so a diagnosis of kennel cough is almost a relief for me. Hopefully, the vet has diagnosed the little demon dog and he's on some antibiotics now. If it's kennel cough, you get to listen to another week or two of honking. :D

My dogs have gotten kennel cough despite being current on bordatella too. The vet explained to me that the bordatella vaccine is much like our flu vaccine. It's protection is limited to past strains but does little, if anything, for new strains.

[frijole]

I had the same thought... don't mess with a cough - assume its heart and get into the vet asap. Will be sending hugs your way as well. As Beth used to say... we need a money tree... and frankly a lucky tree... Hugs, Kim

[StarDeb55]

I am just a wee bit frustrated tonight. Harley went off the cheap food that I had been buying at PetsMart, so went back to Merrick canned. The first 2 weeks were great, he had a good, healthy appetite, & had picked up about 1/2 lb. The past 3-4 days are gradually becoming more nightmarish. This morning all he did was lick the gravy off the canned food for his breakfast, that was it. After a 3 hour struggle tonight, I finally resorted to playing the "drop the food on the floor" game, & managed to get about 1/2 down him. I'm thinking with the lack of appetite the past few days, it would be a wise idea on my part to skip his today's lyso dose. He had such a huge drop on his stim the middle of last month, 10.5 down to 5.8, I'm a wee bit concerned that this higher lyso dose may have done him in. He acts like he's fine, but he's simply not eating well.

I'm also thinking that this might be a dental issue as he is way overdue, but the vet sent me an estimate for a dental back in the spring & it was >$700. That is definitely not within the range of my pocketbook.

Oops, didn't see Glynda & Kim's posts about the coughing. We never went to the vet & he quit coughing on his own. He was only doing it at bedtime, anyway.

Debbie

[frijole]

Deb I gotta tell you - when I was dealing with Annie I thought of what you have been thru with Harley and wondered how the heck you do it. Did they ever find a REASON that Harley doesn't eat? I think that the sheer terror of not getting Annie to eat anything, and my inability to figure out why she'd eat one food one day and then wouldn't touch it the next about did me in..... so trust me, I feel for you.

Yeah - skip that dose and give him a little break to see if it helps. Keep us posted. And that throwing the food on the floor game is no fun. Hang in there. Hope YOU are feeling better too! Kim

PS Over $700 for doggie dental? You have diamond studded braces put on? WTH???!!!

[StarDeb55]

Yeah, & I've got over 1/2 case of Merrick's left from last Friday's purchase. At about $38 per case, he's going to eat that, OR ELSE. Or else, basically means until payday a week from today. It's not that he's getting the same flavor every single meal, I keep 2 cans open & try to vary it. I sometimes will mix the 2 kinds together, but none of the usual tricks are helping much.

Debbie

[frijole]

I don't know if this will help or not but I did find that if I could get Annie to eat a little something (like an appetizer) then she would be more likely to eat the dogfood. So when Saskia suggested I give her boiled egg whites and she scarfed those down every time... if I didn't think she'd eat I would give her that first and THEN try the regular food. Course I know now she probably always ate those because it was smooth going down the "reptile lined throat". But you never know...

Yeah - all I could think of was the case of food I had in my pantry that she wouldn't touch and the $200 of lysodren. UGH But then we do it out of love. And because we are CRAZY! :D:o;)

[StarDeb55]

Just got off the phone with the vet, Harley's lyso dose will be dropped from 300 mg weekly to 275. Hopefully, a little rise in his cortisol will help with his appetite. Holding last night's dose really did not help much, he ate maybe 30% of his breakfast.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

And the good news is, the little demon dog ate about 70% o of his dinner. There is a but to this, though. I put his food down, he took one or two licks, then walked away. I'm thinking, "boy, buddy are you in for a surprise when I don't cater to you for the next 3 hours trying to get you to eat." I had to leave for dinner, then church shortly after that, & got home 3 hours later. I put his food down when I got back, & did not get any grief. Maybe that's the solution, just totally leave the house when he refuses to eat. Not exactly practical, though!:rolleyes::p

I gave the vet a chuckle during the conversation when I said that all my usual tricks are not working very well. I told him that I finally got him to eat about 1/2 of Friday night's dinner by playing "drop the food on the floor" game. Explained to the vet, that I sat with him on the floor for 20 minutes, dropped spoonful by spoonful of food on the floor, & he will lick it up. The vet is laughing:D:rolleyes: All I can say is I'm certainly glad I have tile floors.

I guess I can take this as a compliment. The vet told me that he gave his "Cushing's 101" lecture to the parent of a newly diagnosed pup today, saying that he used me as an example, & how well that both of boys had done after being diagnosed. Geez, I guess my house is a Cushing's role model.

Debbie

[Bichonluver3]

Hey. Harley, YOU OL' FATSO!! Keep on trucking.:D
Good work, mom!
Carrol & Chloe

[Casey's Mom]

Compliments from the vet!! You are a great mom Deb - I cannot imagine feeding my dog that way - it really made me laugh. But then again when they don't eat we panic - been there!!


Love and many hugs,

[StarDeb55]

The trials & tribulations of keeping the little demon dog eating continue. He has just about stopped eating the Merrick's in the past few days. I have noticed, though, that if Chew leaves any of his kibble laying around, Harley will dash over & eat it. Chew is on Urinary SO kibble, so it's really not a great idea to let Harley eat a lot of it. I had to go buy food at the dog bakery this AM, so bought Harley a bag of Innova Senior. I gave him 1/2 cup of the new kibble, along with a couple of heaping spoonfuls of canned. Of course, he ate the WHOLE THING within 30 minutes, not his usual 3 hours to get dinner eaten.;):rolleyes: We'll see how long this lasts.

Debbie

[frijole]

Whoop whoop! Mom getting smart. :)

[StarDeb55]

Harley is hanging in there. Unfortunately, his left eye is continuing to give him grief. I have been very determined about getting his dry eye drops in at least once daily, & have been mostly going twice daily. The least delay & that eye develops an awful looking weepy, goopy drainage. I suspect he may have an infection. Even though my pocketbook is saying no more vet bills after Chewy's situation, I have bitten the bullet, & will be taking Harley to the eye vet in the morning. I got the ok to give him a full 5 mg tablet of valium from the regular vet. The last trip to eye vet in the spring, I had given him 1/2 tablet, & it did not slow the little demon dog down. He had a major freak out & melt down where the vet could not get a complete exam done on him. She was so shocked at his behavior, she asked if he had the valium, & when I told her yes, she understood what I had been dealing with at home. This was shortly after he fell off the kitchen counter, & he has been much better with the eye drops, the way that I'm doing them, now.

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie

Good luck at the eye doctor tomorrow, hoping the 5mg will make Harley a little more mellow and agreeable :)
Love, Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[frijole]

Deb... thinking of you and the little guy today.

[StarDeb55]

The 5 mg of valium worked like a charm. Harley did very little complaining until the eye vet was cleaning up his face, & even then the hysterics were nowhere close to what he pulled on the last trip in May. Unfortunately, he has a severe infection in that left eye. It's so bad that he is on oral antibiotics for the next week. She is going to put him on antibiotic eye drops, along with a steroid for a very limited period. She is aware of his Cushing's, so she doesn't want him on this specific eye drop for any extended period. I feel really bad that I let his left eye get this bad, but with Chewy's knee blowout, I kind of had to triage who went to the vet first. I told the eye vet this, & said that if I had not been so concerned about Harley's left eye, we wouldn't have been in today. I did have to chuckle. When the eye vet left the exam room, she said, "I really do like that 5 mg. of valium on-board." I laughed & told her that I did, too, & he would be getting it from here on out.

Debbie

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Debbie,
Glad the eye vet visit worked out good with little or no stress on Harley, he is such a cute little guy. :D . Sorry about the infection though. Hope he feels better real soon.

[StarDeb55]

Oh, yes, I forgot what the little smart aleck pulled on the trip to the vet. We had finished in the exam room & he was sitting in my lap as we waited for all of his meds to brought up. He was so out of it from the valium by that point, he was almost falling off my lap onto the floor. I told the girls that I was putting him in the car, & I'd be right back. I had about a third of a large iced mocha sitting in the cup holder in between the front seats, put Harley in the passenger seat & didn't think anything about the drink being there as he has never bothered a drink previously. I go back in, pay our bill, come back to the car. I get in, & take one look at dearest Harley, & busted out laughing. His beard was just covered with iced mocha. He had managed to pull the lid off the mocha, & helped himself.:eek::( Fortunately, the plastic cup was not that full, so even with him sticking his whole head in the cup, which is what he had to do, he couldn't lick up a whole lot of it. All I can say is that is one determined little dog!!!:p:rolleyes::eek::D It did not hurt him, but he is still pretty out of it tonight from the valium.

Debbie

[Roxee's Dad]

What a little stinker....I may have to dognap him ;)

[frijole]

Love it! Dog doped on valium but still has enough sense to go for the mocha! :D

[Casey's Mom]

Ohh the demon dog goes for the mocha - love it!!

[StarDeb55]

Just a quick update to say that Harley's eyes look so very much better after only a week on the various eyedrops & oral antibiotics. Yeah, we only have one more Clavomox to take tonight & the oral pills are done. He has been the perfect little gentleman about the eyedrops, not one hint of a problem. May I say I'm grateful. When the eye vet said she wanted the antibiotic drops 2x per day, the tacrolimus drops 3x per day, & moisture drops in between all of the above, I looked at her & started laughing, asking, "do you remember who we're dealing with?" She said that all of the above is if I were living in a perfect world with a perfectly behaved dog. She would be happy if I could get everything in at least once a day. He has been so good, we are coming close to following the "perfect schedule".

Debbie

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Debbie,

So glad to hear that Harley is doing better and not giving you a hard time anymore. (He is so darn cute, I still want to take him home ;))

Looking forward to an update on Chewy's thread.

[Dollydog]

Glad to hear Harley is doing better and that the drops worked out fine. It took 2 of us and a milkbone to get drops in Lady's eyes twice a day!!
Still smiling over the visual of him drinking the mocha under the "influence" .....he must have enjoyed every drop! :D
Jo-Ann

[StarDeb55]

The finicky eater is driving me nuts. For the past week, I have segregated the kibble from his wet food in his dish, put a squirt of Nutrical over both, he eats the kibble, leaves the wet. It's not like I'm buying cheap, grocery store junk food, either. I ran out of Nutrical this morning, so he ate no breakfast at all. At least he was so hungry tonight, he's eaten about 70% of his dinner. Maybe I should pour mocha over the food in his dish.

Debbie

[Marlene]

:):) I think you've hit on a plan with the mocha!

[frijole]

:D

Debbie, too bad we don't live closer... I have 3 cans of expensive food opened and not one bite being taken out of them. We could swap 'rejects'. :p

[gpgscott]

Hi Deb,

Glad the eyes are better and I sure know how maddening they can be about eating.

Good luck. Scott

[StarDeb55]

In case anyone is wondering, who is that strange dog as Debbie's avatar? This is my Barkley. Barkley crossed the bridge on 9-25-06. In his honor, I change my avatar every year for one week. Harley will be back next week.

Debbie

[labblab]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...what a handsome boy...:o Deb, I'm so glad you're giving us the chance to see and honor your sweet Barkley.

Marianne

[frijole]

Barkley was a stud. RIP dear angel. Go find Haley and give her a hug for me. xoxo Kim

[gpgscott]

Hello Barkley, See you again next year.

Rest in peace little dear one.

Scott

[Franklin'sMum]

Debbie,
Thank you for sharing Barkley with us. RIP little man
(((Hugs)))
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[Casey's Mom]

Debbie he is adorable - thank you for letting us see him again.

Love and many hugs,

[StarDeb55]

I don't know what to make of this with the little guy the past 2 evenings. We have gone to bed & he is asleep in his usual spot, by my pillow, he wakes me up because he is panting so loudly. Harley has never had the Cushing's "pant", not did Barkley, so I'm totally not familiar with it. The best way I can describe it is that it really sounds almost like he's wheezing. (I have asthma, so I know what wheezing sounds like.) We got up for about 30 minutes last night, went back to bed, & Harley didn't make a peep the rest of the night. I have not heard this panting/wheezing during the day, ever. What I'm concerned about is this something not related to Cushing's, cardiac especially? Harley does have a grade 4 heart murmur, which I know is still mild, but this is starting to turn on my radar.

Debbie

[labblab]

Debbie, so sorry about this additional worry! But FWIW, Barkis definitely did have a Cushing's-related pant and in his case it just sounded like "everyday" dog panting, except that it seemed as though he was panting all the time, day and night.

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Debbie, I know what the cushing's pant sounds like because Lulu panted like she just ran a 5k without a drop of water along the way. It was loud and it was constant. Sounds like Harley may have something else going on or he may have just been laying in a weird a position. Gil tells me that if I lay on my left side I make all kind of noises. :D

[Marlene]

Debbie,
I seem to paralleling you a lot in concerns. I am glad Harley's eyes are better. Lacey still has the white spot. I feel the same way about trying to get in three different eye medications during the day. The non-steroid anti-inflammatory drops seem to be helping with the redness and irritation look. And the food problem is driving me crazy too. We went to our local feed store. They have every dog food known to man. The problem is, we have bags and bags of food that she has rejected. One of their employees helped me pick out several things to try. She actually ate some of the dry food we got. It's called TASTE OF THE WILD. (Salmon, ocean fish meal, sweet potatoes, canola oil, salmon meal, smoked salmon, potato fiber, natural flavor, salt, choline chloride, dried chickory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, etc. ) No grain. No preservatives. Although I am a real stickler on human diet and read all my labels, I don't feel I am really too knowledgeable about canine diet. I hope this ok. I don't know why it has salt added, though. I probably don't need to be concerned....she does this a lot. She absolutely LOVES the first meal of something new....then, she turns her nose up at the second offering. :) We bought two other dry foods and two wet. I'll just keep varying them and see if she will do better with a varied diet. Then, you mentioned the panting. I, too, get concerned about her panting. It does sound like wheezing sometimes and, having had asthma also, I get concerned about that, too. I have a stethoscope and I try to listen to her lung sounds to see if I hear crackling from water in her lungs. It's difficult for me to be sure. Then, she is scratching from the demidex and I don't see that the Interceptor has made much of a change in that. I haven't seen any mention of Harley having tarter build-up, so I'm hoping that isn't something you are dealing with. I've been reading everything on the internet I can find about cleaning them without anesthesia. Some people say it does no good because they don't get under the gums where most of the trouble lies. Others say they can do a pretty good job with water-pik type cleaning. CSU says they have cleaned the teeth of much more fragile patients. They think I should have them cleaned. I don't know what to do????? Barkley's picture is so cute. I lost Tilly and Coco (one day apart), an apricot toy poodle and a dark red toy poodle. That is a nice idea to honor him with his picture as your avatar. I'm sending you my strongest wishes that days get easier and better with Harley.

[StarDeb55]

Marlene, thanks for checking in with us. I'm in the same boat with a dental for Harley. He is way overdue for one, & I know he needs it as his breath, now, is beyond stinky. I am constantly rotating his food on a daily basis to try to keep him interested. One thing I do to try & tempt him is sprinkle grated cheese over the food & stir it in. The cheese does help some, but just make sure you mix it in. I have just sprinkled it on the top, didn't mix it in, & the little twerp will eat the cheese off the top & leave the rest.

This website might help you get some more detailed information concerning any food you are thinking about buying.

http://dogfoodanalysis.com/

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Harley & I have a good news/bad news scenario. First the good news, we went for a recheck on his eye this morning. Even though the left eye tear test has dropped from 8 to zero, the eye vet still thought the eye looked considerably better. His right eye tear test was 25 which is great. He has to go on antibiotic drops in the right because there are some small corneal scratches, like he ran into something.

I, now, know what that "wheezing" is probably from. On physical exam, the eye vet found a huge mass on his upper left jaw. You can't really see it because of all the hair, but once John grooms him tomorrow, I'm sure I can tell. Anyway, the vet lifted his upper lip to show me, the gum/jaw is swollen at least 3x normal size. I suspect it's a dental abscess as he is way overdue for a dental. The mass is so large, the eye vet was concerned that it could be affecting the pressure in his left eye, but the pressure is ok for now. I have an appointment for the demon dog with the regular vet Monday afternoon. This is what I get for pushing back his dental, but my "money tree" in my backyard is no longer bearing fruit, right now. After Chew's knee, Harley's left eye infection, a $500 car repair, & my TV giving up after 2 1/2 years which would have cost $3000 to fix, thus a purchase of a new TV, Mom's wallet is tapped dry. I absolutely feel like crying right now. I feel like a turd that I let Harley's mouth get this bad, but I can tell you that mass was not there 5 weeks ago when I took him into the eye vet, then. I have found small droplets of what appears to be blood on the bed where he sleeps lately, & could not figure out where they were coming from, as I have gone over him with a fine tooth comb, & could find no injury, nothing. I'm betting what I found on the bed is draining from his mouth.

At 15 years old, how much do I put him through? If this is simply a case of a dental abscess, great, we'll deal with it. If it's something else, I'm afraid that Harley may be crossing the bridge to meet up with Barkley. For all of you, with recently diagnosed pups, please do not neglect their other health care needs, especially possible infections. Cushing's can cause an infection to get out of control very quickly due to the immune system suppression. Please take Harley's situation to heart. I'm very, very worried.:eek::confused::(

Debbie

[labblab]

Aw, Debbie, I'm so sorry about this new problem!!! But please do not beat up on yourself. You are a wonderful mom, and have been doing your very best to stay on top of the issues that you thought were the most pressing for for both Chewy and Harley. This mass has come up very quickly, and there is no way that it is your fault that you did not notice it until now. I can surely understand how upsetting it is. But there is nothing that you have done wrong :o.

I know this will be a very tough weekend for you as you await the vet appointment on Monday. Beaming you tons of strength and support, and I'll be hoping big-time that this is something that can be managed relatively easily. I'm really glad you'll be seeing John tomorrow. I know it will do both you and Harley a lot of good to spend some time in John's special care!

Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Debbie, I truly sympathize with you and like Marianne has mentioned, please stop being so hard on yourself. You really are a wonderful and loving mom to both Chewy and Harley.

Sending big hugs, and I'm also hoping that this is something that can be easily managed too. Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[gpgscott]

Deb, You know they hide things and you have been trying to stay on top of so much.

Hoping for a simple abcess that will respond readily to antibiotics and maybe a simple extraction.

Scott

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

Don't feel bad about not noticing the lump, Buddy had something similar and his face swelled up overnight. His upper canine was infected and it caused problems with his ear and eye as well. It must have been going on for months or maybe even longer.

I felt bad because I had put off a dental because of his age and diseases but it became an emergency and when they tried to take out the tooth it just crumbled and the infection had gone through to his nose.

As soon as the tooth was out it was surprising how soon it healed considering his age and immune compromised little body.

I hope you have a simple solution too.

Jenny

[lulusmom]

Debbie, you might be justified in heaping all the guilt on yourself if Harley personally told you that his mouth hurt but Harley is not Mr. Ed. Like Scott said, dogs are good at hiding stuff from us and unless you do a full body scan once a week, you aren't going to pick up on everything. Just like your thread title says, been there, done that.

[frijole]

Deb - Please don't beat yourself up... kind of hard to spot something that far back in the mouth. I'll be thinking about you guys and sending the very best... sure do understand about the finances... what a year huh?

I'm so paranoid after reading your story Annie was hacking as if she had phlegm in her throat and I ran over to check out her mouth (and her teeth were cleaned recently) but the little poop won't let me look in there...

Keep the faith that all will be ok for your guy. You are doing a great job. KNOW THAT!!!! Big hugs, Kim

[StarDeb55]

Harley is not Mr. Ed.

Glynda, leave it to you to put a smile on my face. I do think that Harley can be Mr. Ed, at times, when he starts complaining to me or bitching at me, in dog talk.:rolleyes::D;)

Debbie

[Casey's Mom]

Sounds like Jenny is on the right track - you are a great mom Deb so please don't blame yourself. Hey you get to see John!

Love and many hugs,

[Franklin'sMum]

Debbie,

Sending you and Harley healing thoughts and prayers, and so very much hoping that this is just a minor issue. Hugs to you both my friend,

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[StarDeb55]

I know there's nothing I can do until the vet sees Harley on Mon. afternoon. Unfortunately, I am in full blown panic mode, now. I mentioned that I had found a couple of small "blood drops" on the corner of the bed where he sleeps in the past week or two. This morning when I stripped the bed, there is bloody drainage spots all over his corner of the bed. I called the vet back, went ahead & got him on the surgery schedule for Tuesday as it's my gut feeling this can't wait. His vet took today off since he is not working this weekend, so the office manager agreed to get him on the schedule, & we can move him to next Friday, cancel, whatever, depending on what his vet wants to do after he sees him. I think there is a possibility that the vet may not want to go straight to surgery until Harley has been on antibiotics several days, but will just have to hang tight until Monday.

Debbie

[frijole]

Continued positive thoughts and hugs being sent your way. Way to take charge Deb. Hang in there.

[gpgscott]

Deb,

Amoxicillin is what is usually prescribed for dental infections. I wonder if someone can't call in a script for you today so you can get the little stinker started right away.

Scott

[StarDeb55]

Well, John just finished his groom, & his poor jaw is at least 3x it's size. John did confirm that his mouth is draining bloody fluid, so I have called the vet back, & the other vet can see him late this afternoon. I want him on antibiotics, NOW, & not have to wait another 3 days. In 3 days, he could have be septic, & very, very sick.

Debbie

[mypuppy]

Oh Debbie,
I'm so sorry for Harley and you, and I hope he gets some relief fast. And Ill have to agree with the others here. From what I have witnessed for a year now, you are a great mom. We are not mind readers but I understand how frustrating it is not being able to read our pups completely, but we try to the best of our availability. hang in there and I hope some tight hugs would help with the moment, so here they go--tight hugs. luv ya bunches. Jeanette and Princess

[Dollydog]

Hi...I'm glad someone is seeing Harley this aft and he can get started on the antibiotics. Will be praying for you two and hoping that this is cleaned up as soon as possible.
Take care and will check back soon for your updates,
Jo-Ann

[Squirt's Mom]

Sending prayers, healing white light, and positive thoughts for you and Harley.

[StarDeb55]

I truly wish I had better news. We just got back from the vet. In all likelihood, this is not a simple dental abscess. The mass is very hard, & abscess would be soft. As much as Harley would let the vet check his mouth, she saw no evidence of pus, simply the bloody drainage. If it were an abscess, you should be seeing pus. They have drawn blood, take x-rays of his belly & chest. There are suspicious spots in several places in both of his lungs. The vet tried to be as positive as she could, but she was also being honest. Harley's heart murmur has now jumped from a grade 4 to a grade 6, so there is a possibility that those spots are simply enlarged blood vessels. The vet will be dropping the films off for a radiologist to review to make sure what those spots are. I will know more when his regular vet sees him Monday afternoon, but right now, it looks like Tuesday, he will have to be put under a general to take skull films to see just exactly how far this mass has invaded at a minimum. If his vet recommends a biopsy, I will let them do that since he will already be out. When I told the vet before I left that this mass was not there 5 weeks ago when the eye vet first saw him for that bad eye infection, the look on her face got even grimmer. She thinks that horrible eye infection was the first sign that the little man had a serious problem. I will know a little more tomorrow when labs & hopefully, the radiology review comes back.

My days off this week have turned into my worst nightmare.:(:(:mad::(:(

Debbie

[frijole]

Deb, I feel just awful for you - you have gone thru so much this year and certainly don't need any more worries. I know Harley is in the best of hands with you and pray for the best of outcomes. I send every bit of strength I have to you. Hang in there and know you aren't alone. Big, huge hugs from Annie and I. xoxo Kim

[Franklin'sMum]

Thoughts, prayers and big hugs,
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[littleone1]

I'm sorry to hear about Harley. I'm keeping you and Harley in my thoughts and prayers.

Terri

[labblab]

Oh Deb, beaming you and Harley healing hugs and strength. We'll be awaiting every update.

Marianne

[gpgscott]

Sorry seems so little to say but it is the only word I have. Please try to unwind a little yourself as you wait to hear and of course we are all waiting here with you.

Scott

[addy]

Deb, I feel I don't have the right words either but I hope and pray with every fiber of my being that your little boy will pull through all of this just fine.

Will continue to think positive thoughts for you,

Addy

[Casey's Mom]

Deb I know that you are going to have a very tough time waiting and worrying this weekend. Sending hugs and prayers your way and just know we are here for you anytime you need us.

Love and many hugs,

[Dollydog]

I'm so sorry to hear this news. Will be waiting with you through this weekend....prayers and hugs coming your way...
Jo-Ann

[StarDeb55]

It is with a great amount of sadness & grief that I tell all of you that the little demon dog will be a little Cushing's angel soon, joining his big brother, Barkley, & his 1st Mom. The vet just called called me. His labwork looks remarkably good. There is a mild elevation in WBC's, but that's about it. His liver function tests are all within reason considering his Cushing's. The radiologist has confirmed this nightmare. Those spots in his lungs, that both the vet & I were so hoping to be enlarged blood vessels, are pulmonary metastasis. It's possible that the mass in his jaw is the primary tumor or there could be tumor somewhere else in his little body. I still want to take him to his regular vet. I did tell the vet that he is eating remarkably well for the world's pickiest eater, drinking ok, & I really don't hear any breathing problems, yet. I'm thinking that I may keep him at home for a little while, but as soon as he shows any signs of distress, not eating, difficulty breathing, it will be time. Dr. Stanat has assured me that she & Dr. Loeschen, his regular vet, will make sure I have enough pain medication that he remains comfortable.

I will let you know after Monday's vet appointment.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Debbie,

Leslie called me to see if I had seen your post yet and since I had not, I asked her to read it to me. With voice cracking and obvious tears, Leslie read the words that I so dreaded to hear. I wish there was something I could do to take away some of your pain and anguish so I'll just tell you that I love you and that my prayers are with both you and the little demon dog that we've all come to know and love through you.

(((Huge Consoling Hugs)))
Glynda

[SachiMom]

Debbie,
I am so sorry to hear this.
I know that you will do what is necessary, when it is necessary. So I send you prayers for strength. I know each of us wish there was something more we could do. You have done so much for all of us.
Again, I am so sorry.
Sending Luv & Hugs ~ Mary Ann

[Roxee's Dad]

Debbie,
I am so very sorry, I don't know what to say. I have already fallen in love with that little guy. He has stolen my heart from day 1. I wish there was something I could do to for both of you.

More (((HUGS))) from me and special hug for the boys.

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so sorry, too. Sending prayers, love and hugs for you and Harley, as Glynda has mentioned, we all have come to love and adore through you.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[labblab]

Oh Debbie. Such hard news for you to write and for us to read. I cannot tell you how sorry I am. Please know that I am thinking of Harley and you and Chewy, and will continue to do so throughout the coming days.

With many hugs across the miles,
Marianne

[k9diabetes]

Debbie... I'm so very sorry that you have received such grim and heartbreaking news about your sweet boy. Words fail but know that you both are in my thoughts.

Natalie

[Spiceysmum]

I am very sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you.

Linda

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

All I can say is that I am thinking of you.

jenny

[gpgscott]

Debbie,

My heart breaks for you. We all know how hard it is to see to their final care.

Prayers for strength for you and peace for Harley.

Scott

[mytil]

Oh Debbie,

I cannot tell you very sorry I am to read this. My heart is with you and your boy.

We are all here Deb.
Sending prayers your way
Terry

[Dollydog]

Deb, I'm so sorry to hear this....more prayers and hugs coming for the both of you,
(((HUGS)))
Jo-Ann

[Casey's Mom]

I am so very sorry Deb to hear about Harley. Huge hugs being sent your way,

[mypuppy]

:(

Jeanette

[frijole]

Deb, Thinking of you still this a.m. and sending you strength to make Harley's final chapter comfortable and love filled. He is surrounded by a great supporting cast and the best mom ever. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Enjoy each and every minute and know that all of us "aunts and uncles" are here for you. As others have said, we have all grown to love the little guy and share your pain. Much love, Kim

[lucygoo]

Debbie,

I'm so sorry to hear the news.

Thinking of you both,

Gina

[addy]

Dear Debbie,

My thoughts and prayers are for you and there are no words I can think of to say except how much I admire the strength, courage and determination you show us every single day.

I hope you find peace in this somehow and please know that we all love you dearly.

Love,
Addy

[frijole]

Deb wants to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and prayers. Right now it is too difficult for her to post - but she wants you to know she is reading and very appreciative of the support.

[AlisonandMia]

No words....:(:(:(

My thoughts are with you.

((((((Hugs))))))

Alison

[labblab]

Debbie, still here and still thinking about you guys. I am so hoping that your vet visit tomorrow will give you clarity and peace regarding the best path for Harley. I know you are packing a lifetime of love into every moment right now. Please give the little guy a big hug (make that a bunch of big hugs) from his Auntie Marianne.

And here are a ton more giant hugs for you, too.
Marianne

[littleone1]

I'm keeping you and Harley in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully, you will be able to get more positive answers from your vet.

Terri

[sunimist]

Thinking of you and sweet Harley and keeping you both in my prayers.

(((HUGS)))

Shelba and Suni~~

[StarDeb55]

Harley will be making his trip across the bridge to join up with my Mom & Barkley on Thursday morning. My vet is in complete agreement as Harley clearly told him, "Buddy, you are not messing with my mouth. It hurts!" The vet did see enough to tell me that the mass is extremely large, & based on the spread to the lungs, this has been going awhile. As we all know, they are so very good at hiding things when they feel bad. In tribute to Harley, please always be on the lookout for any behavior or anything else that doesn't seem to be quite the norm for your pups, they could be trying to tell you something.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the all of the care & concern that everyone has demonstrated, since this nightmare started last Thursday. Even though I will not be posting much for awhile, please know that I am here & reading. I am not leaving, but I will be taking a break for awhile. It would be an insult to the memory of Barkley & Harley for me to leave.

Debbie

[John II]

Debbie,

As others have said, there are no words.
Just thoughts and prayers and hugs.
We're here for you, just as you have been here for us.
:(

[Harley PoMMom]

I am truly sorry, Debbie, as I know the decision to let them go is never an easy one...ever. Just know we are here for you and sympathize with you deeply. We love you, Debbie.

Love and ((((hugs))))
Lori

[Sabre's Mum]

Oh Debbie ... I have no words ... but my thoughts are with you.

Take care and hugs from me to you
Angela and Flynn

[frijole]

Too choked up to talk. Fluttering over your shoulder though. I know he is showered with love. I send him more. Kim

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Debbie,

I am so sorry and my heart is heavy with sadness for you. Both you and Harley are in my thoughts and prayers.

Louise

[Franklin'sMum]

Debbie,

I am so truly sorry you are facing this. Please know we are here for you and love you both very much.
Sending you HUGE (((Hugs))) and prayers
Jane xx

[Casey's Mom]

Debbie, so much love being sent your way.

((((Hugs))))

[corgipallie]

My heart and prayers are with you and Harley.

With love,
Steph and Angel Pallie

[lulusmom]

Debbie, lots of love, prayers and big bear hugs for you, Harley and Chewy. My thoughts are with you all.

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

I will be thinking of you.

Jenny

[gpgscott]

Deb,

Hugs and prayers for you both.

Scott

[mytil]

The words just do not seem to do justice here but know I am thinking of you both.

(((((hugs)))))
T.

[labblab]

Me, too. I keep searching for some words of wisdom or comfort. But I know that right now, it's all about feelings. So I hope you can feel our love being beamed to you, Deb, and that you can also pass our love on to Harley. We are with you, now and in the coming hours.

Marianne

[littleone1]

I know this is a very difficult time for you Debbie, but you are doing the right thing for Harley. Enjoy your time together.

Hugs,

Terri

[frijole]

Thinking of you. Kim

[mypuppy]

TIGHTEST HUGS...Jeanette and Princess

[Rebelsmom]

Debbie, I am so sory. Thinking of you and keeping you in my prayers.

Melissa

[judymaggie]

Debbie -- you and Harley are in my thoughts and prayers. Please give him a gentle hug from me and big one for you.

[frijole]

Thinking of you all, sending warm thoughts, love and strength. God bless. Kim

[lulusmom]

Sending my love, Debbie, and will be with you in spirit tomorrow when you set your boy free. Please give him a hug from all of his family here and tell him that we love him.

[SachiMom]

If we didn't love them so much it wouldn't hurt.
I pray that Harley has a comfortable night so that you can build upon your precious memories with him.
Hold him all night and give him hugs and kisses from each and every aunt and uncle he has here. That will keep you up all night (as if you needed help). Tonight is for you and Harley.
Special thoughts and prayers for you, Deb.
~Mary Ann

[Franklin'sMum]

Sending you all of my love and strength
Jane

[Carol G]

My thoughts are with you

Carol

[Spiceysmum]

Thinking of you today.

Linda

[gpgscott]

thinking about you both Deb...

Scott

[John II]

Also thinking about you both.
Sending you hugs and prayers and support and strength.
:(

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Thinking of you and sweet Harley with love.

Louise

[Casey's Mom]

Tight hugs and so much love here for you and Harley,

[frijole]

Standing by your side today in spirit. Kim

[AlisonandMia]

Thinking of you today/tonight.

Alison

[StarDeb55]

Harley will be leaving to begin his final journey shortly. Little man may your journey be swift. Know that Mom is waiting for you with open arms, & Barkley at her feet. I know the hurt & discomfort is over now, so rest in peace, my "po-po dog".

Your 2nd Mom.
Debbie

[Squirt's Mom]

My tears fall with yours as Harley makes this final journey into your mom's arms once again. She and your boys will be with you always, Debbie, only their shells are gone. Their love is ever enduring and will sustain you in the days ahead. I have no doubt they are all so very proud of you.

Know you have many friends here who's hearts are reaching out to you with their tears also falling.

Take care of yourself please.

All our sympathy,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, and our angles, Ruby and Crys

[zoesmom]

Have a peaceful journey, little man. And peace and comfort to your mom as well. Sue

[jrepac]

Very sorry to hear this...it's always tough...:(

Jeff

[CreepyCrawly]

I don't really know you - I am new here, but I have read up most of this thread, and my heart goes out to you. I know nothing can be said that will make things easier, but my thoughts are with you in this difficult time. (((Hugs))) to you.

[lulusmom]

Godspeed little Harleyman.

[littleone1]

Rest in peace Harley. You're now free to enjoy life once again.

Terri

[Roxee's Dad]

Rest in Peace sweet boy, You will always be loved and will be missed.

[k9diabetes]

Godspeed to your little man.... he knew he could depend on you to give him the help he needed even though it would tear your heart open, the greatest gift we can give them.

Natalie

[Casey's Mom]

Rest in peace sweet Harley.

[Franklin'sMum]

Dear Debbie,

I am so sorry for the loss of precious Harley. Harley knows that he is, was, and forever will be loved, beyond what mere words can express. Please know that we are all here with you, and share your tears. My deepest sympathies are with you and Chewy.
Much, much love, and huge (((hugs)))

Jane, Franklin and Bailey

[addy]

I did not know you really, but yet I did
For I read about you everyday
Your ups and down, pains and joys,
I traveled with you along your way
Today my heart is broken and all I feel is sorrow
Yet I know that you will be with me tomorrow
Forever in my heart, sweet Harley, Forever in my heart


Dear Debbie,

May the joy of Harley's life help ease your terrible pain.

Love,

Addy,Zoe and Koko

[lucygoo]

Debbie...

I have no words except to say I'm so very sorry for your loss; and may sweet Harley rest in peace.

Take care of yourself,

Gina

[Dollydog]

Rest in peace sweet Harley....and please take care of yourself Debbie.
Jo-Ann

[Bichonluver3]

Oh, Debbie, I am soooo sorry for your loss. Sweet Harley was always front and center in this forum and we all got to know him and love him. Right now I share your pain and tears. Please find some peace in knowing how good a Mom you were to him and how your love and care helped him live a long life. You made all the right choices and helped so many others here make right choices for their pups. You have become our strength and I want you to know that we stand beside you to be your strength during this difficult time.

Rest in peace precious Harley. May you now run like the wind through the sunny fields of Heaven with Barkley and all the other Cush-angels. Your first Mom is there to give you all the cuddles and tummy rubs you could ever want. But we will miss you, little guy.

We will watch our desert sky tonight to see the newest, brightest star and know all is well with you.

God bless you both.
All our love, thoughts and prayers are with you both.
Carrol & Chloe

[Carol G]

Debbie,

I'm so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.

Carol

[gpgscott]

Godspeed dear Harley.

[bgdavis]

May your journey be swift and peaceful, Harley. Your friends here will miss you so.

Bonnie and Angel Criss

[ladysmom06]

Debbie,

I am so very sorry for the loss of your sweet, precious Harley. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. My deepest sympathy.

[apollo6]

Dear Debbie
Words can not express your loss. May your sweet , dear Harley rest in peace.
In honor of Harley.
Your Pets In Heaven
By Ken D. Conover
To have loved and then said farewell, is better than to have never loved at all.
For all of the times that you have stooped and touched my head, fed me my favorite treat and returned the love that I so unconditionally gave to you.
For the care that you gave to me so unselfishly.
For all of these things I am grateful and thankful.
I ask that you not grieve for the loss, but rejoice in the fact that we lived, loved and touched each other’s lives. My life was fuller because you were there, not as a master/owner, but as my FRIEND.
Today I am as I was in my youth. The grass is always green, butterflies flit among the flowers and the Sun shines gently down upon all of God's creatures.
I can run, jump, play and do all of the things that I did in my youth. There is no sickness, no aching joints and no regrets and no aging.
We await the arrival of our lifelong companions and know that togetherness is forever.
You live in our hearts as we do in yours. Companions such as you are so rare and unique.
Don't hold the love that you have within yourself. Give it to another like me and then I will live forever. For love never really dies and you are loved and missed as surely as we are.
Your Pets in Heaven
Sending you love
Sonja and Apollo.

[KjobakerOhio]

I'm so sorry to hear about Harley. I just recently followed your story and read today that he had passed on a few days ago. My heart aches for you. Take care, Karen ("Millie's Mom").

[loshie]

so sorry for your loss and sending lots of love and prayers for strength.
melanie & mila xox

There is a bridge connecting Heaven and Earth.
It is called "The Rainbow Bridge" because of its
many colors.
Just this side of the Rainbow Bridge,
there is a land of meadows, hills and
valleys with lush green grass.
When a beloved pet dies, the pet goes to this place. There is always food and water and warm Spring
weather.
Those old and frail animals are young again.
Those who have been maimed are made whole again.
They play all day with each other.
But there is only one thing missing.
They are not with their special person who
loved them on earth.
So, each day, they run and play until the day comes when one suddenly stops playing and looks up.
The nose twitches, the ears are up, the eyes are staring, and this one runs from the group.
You have been seen.
When you and your special friend meet,
you take him or her in your arms and embrace.
Your face is kissed again and again.
You look once more into the eyes of your trusting pet. Then, you cross the Rainbow Bridge together, never again to be separated.

Unknown Author

[Loladog]

Dear Debbie,

I haven't been on here in a while and I just came across your post. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.:( My thoughts are with you. May Harley rest in peace.

Take care,

[SavingSimon]

Dear Debbie,
I also haven't been here for a while, and did not know of your loss until just now. This really put my problems in a different perspective. I am crying as I type, Harley was a brave soul, mighty trooper, and blessed to have a Mom as brave as he was. It is so hard to know what to say, yet I want you to know that you are in my prayers and I know Harley is in Heaven, I hope and pray you know that you will see him again and that the knowledge that he is now in the loving care of the One who created such an incredible dog in the first place gives you some comfort and peace during what I know is an unimaginably difficult time in your life. Also, may you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you always made the best decisions and gave him your best, and I know he knew that right to the end from having read what I have of your thread. It is also my prayer that many others will learn and be blessed by reading your experience here. I know that I have learned much thanks to you, and much honor to the memory of your precious boy. My heart breaks for you, as I see with everyone in the forum - we all miss Harley. I am so sorry for your loss, and pray you find comfort in knowing you will see him in full health and that he is patiently waiting for his master with our Master and your other loved ones that have gone before you.
With great empathy, and love,
Dena and dogs

[StarDeb55]

I wanted to thank all of you who have posted to say farewell to my Mom's & my little "black & white gentleman". It's very much appreciated. I have been actively reading all of the posts, even though I haven't posted much in the past week. Your prayers, care, & concern are very much appreciated. Chewy & I are doing ok. My tears have pretty much stopped. I do get pretty bummed when I see poor Chewy obviously looking around the house for Harley, & I miss my little black & white shadow.

As I stated when it became apparent that Harley would be crossing the bridge, I will be taking a break for awhile, but most definitely will be back. As a tribute to Harley, please pay close attention to anything that seems a little off or unusual for your pups & their behavior, even if they are not obviously sick. They may be trying to tell you something.

Again, Chewy & I say thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

Debbie

[Marlene]

Debbie,
I had not been on the forum for a few days and did not realize what you were going through. As I read the posts, I cannot stop the tears falling for you and the loss of Harley.
No words come....just love and hugs sent your way.

[Pdog]

Debbie, I'm so sad about sweet Harley. Prayers are being sent your way.

Tammy

[MyRudy]

Debbie:

So sorry for your loss. Harley is at peace now.

Rudy and Donna

[Annie's Mom]

Debbie, I am so sorry to read about Harley. I have been off the forum for a bit and was shocked to see this news. Sending you and your family lots of love and hugs during this difficult transition. Not only did you provide all that is humanly possible for Harley throughout his life, but you have helped each of us on the forum with your expertise and guidance.

Barb