tinks mom

[tinks mom]

Hi My name is Patty
Tinker is my 7 year old hairless chinese crested that just got diagnosed with chusings, and i have been reading the other posts and i am afraid too.
She has been on the meds for 1 week now and the vet wants to up the dose. he only started her on half the dose he wanted her to be on to see how she would do.
and he did use the word FATAL with the word chusings. So why wouldn't i be screaming inside.
i will go and read all the posts and see what i can learn.
Thanks for letting us join.
Oh i forgot we have a male hairless chinese crested too. he is 4 and his name is Willow
Patty

[frijole]

Hi Patti and welcome! First off - shame on that vet for using the word fatal with cushing's.... not even close to true. So you can calm down and focus on getting schooled on the disease and the drugs.

Tell us about Tink, the symptoms, the tests that were done to diagnose. Also please tell us which drug you are using, how much, how often and Tink's weight.

This will help us help you! Welcome to the forum. Kim

[Cyn719]

Hi Patty - welcome !!!! wow I cant believe your vet said FATAL!! We were told when Penny turned 8 that she had cushings - we didnt start treating until she was 11 and she is going to be 12 in November - so I hope that helps you:) This forum is the best and the members taught me way more than my vet every did!! So you hang in there - give the members all your infor and you will get thru this -- these members are called Cush Angels and let me tell you they sure are Angels!!! They have been by my side through all of this and if it wasnt for them I dont know what I would have done or what would of happened to Penny - so give all your lab results and what symptoms Tink had for the vet to start the medication - looking forward to seeing your next post - relax and breath - :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Patty,

Welcome to you and Tinker! Cushing's is a treatable disease but it is one of the most difficult diseases of the endocrine system to get a confirmed diagnosis for. Your answers to the questions that Kim asked will help us to provide you with more meaningful feedback.

Having a teamwork approach between you and your vet plus educating yourself about Cushing's are some of the important factors that are involved with treatment being successful.

We are here for you and Tinker so please do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[ShannonJ92]

Hi Patty and welcome. It is rather overwhelming when you get the Cushing's diagnosis, we're only recently diagnosed too (my 9-yr-old Yorkie, Pebbles). Haven't started treatment yet, trying to get everything figured out. Even the treatment decisions are overwhelming imo. I've only been posting here for a couple weeks but you'll likely find this a comforting place as I have. Post often, ask questions and there are people who will offer help and advice. We all need this support and to know we're not alone.

~Shannon

[Skye]

Hi Patty and your darling little one, oh sweetheart my heart just reaches for you, to know your feeling that way inside, the support here is amazing and the knowledge is incredible. Hope you feel the care all these wonderful people offer and hope all goes well for you and darling. tons of hugs and prayers

[addy]

Hi Patty,
Wow, I get so ticked at vets whom employ the fear factor with Cushings. Our first vet tried to bully and scare me into treating Zoe by telling me all her hair would fall out in three months!!!:eek:

Luckily, I found this forum and I waited a year before treating her as her symptoms were mostly hair/skin in the beginning.

We are hear to hug you, laugh with you, cry with you if we need to but know you are no longer alone on this journey. I won't lie to you. It can sometimes be a roller coaster of a ride, with ups and down but that is true of any disease, I think.

Go through our research section and list all your test results. AND remember to breathe:)

Hugs,
Addy

[tinks mom]

Thanks for the warm welcome,
I found this nice place last night, i joined, posted, and then i power went out.
We live kinda in the country and our power goes out often.
Some of the things you want to know i have no ideas what they are. but i will ask the girls at the vets to copy the results of the tests for me so i can read thru them.
The reason we took Tink to the vet was the eating all the time she never left the food dish, and drinking of water. If she was not eating she was drinking or going outside.
All this was going on while my step dad was in the hospital .
He was there over 2 months and passed .
So i have been busy with mom getting things taken care of.

I am afraid Tinks vet vist took back seat for a few months.
I am to go into town in a few mins to take her on some errands.
So i will be gone for a while but i will check in when i get back.
Patty

[Harley PoMMom]

Some of the things you want to know i have no ideas what they are. but i will ask the girls at the vets to copy the results of the tests for me so i can read thru them.


We are looking for values from an Urinalysis, Chemistry blood panel and CBC. We would appreciate it if you could post the values with the reference ranges and units of measurement. You only need to post the abnormalities that are listed; as an example, ALT: 150 (8.2 to 57 u/L.) Also if any Cushing tests were done, such as an ACTH stimulation, LDDS and or UC:CR, could you post these results too.

Is Tink on any medicines/herbs/supplements?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[tinks mom]

Yes Tink is on Vetoryl 15 mg once aday.
She is not doing so good. She keeps gaining weight. She has gotten to where she seems sad most all the time. She has lost most all her tail hair. She had a wonderfully full and beautiful tail. Now it looks almost like a bare opossum tail.
We had to take her back to the vet and he took more for blood for tests again to see how things were going.
So we will see what the next step is.
I am sorry but i find it hard to come here and post. I do drop in often and read. We are so sad that our baby is sick.
Patty

[Cyn719]

Patty - I know its hard to read all of these posts but please believe me -- its worth it - these members sometimes know more that a reg vet -- in my case they knew alot more than my vet - and they will get you through it - just be on top of the ACTH tests - they are very important for sure !!!!!!! When the dog goes on it the dog has to be checked in 2 weeks and if a dose is changed the dog has to be tested again in two weeks - very important! That I know for sure first hand - stay in touch and keep posting - we are all here for you!! Hugs and lots of strength and support to you and Trink!

[tinks mom]

Hi guys,
Tinks mom here. Well our baby is not having any difference being on the meds. She weights 10.8 pounds, before this she was 7 pounds.
She just keeps gaining weight.
She is not our bouncing baby girl full of joy. She is sad most of the time.
The vet has her on 15 mg of Vetorl once a day.
I went thru her blood work results and these are the things that are high. Alk phosphatase 252
BUN/ Creatinine ratio 33
Cholesterol 384
Triglycerides 304
Platelet count 495
Neutrophils 11011
Monocytes 1573
The things that are low are:
Creatinine 0.4
Amylase 279
These results are from her blood work on the 9-15-11
and they did another blood work up last thursday 10-24-11 and i have not gotten those results back yet.
Thanks for listening.
Patty

[lulusmom]

Hi Patty,

From reading your prior posts, it looks like Tink started treatment at the end of September. She should have had one acth stimulation test done no later than 14 days after starting treatment and another at the 30 day mark. Can you post the results of those tests? Hopefully the test that was done on the 24th was an acth stimulation test.

It is not uncommon for abnormalities on bloodwork to take a bit of time to normalize and some values may never return to normal. i.e. alk phosphatase With Tink only being on treatment for such a short time, don't get too discouraged, especially if she has not been stabilized on an appropriate dose. The goal of treatment is to improve the symptoms and this won't happen until you get Tink's pre and post stimulated cortisol levels within the desired therapeutic range of 1 to 7 ug/dl. Post level can be as high as 9, if symptoms have resolved.

Has Tink's appetite and the drinking and peeing slowed down since starting treatment? Thank you for posting the blood chemistry and cbc results for us. These are the usual screening test but we would also like to see the results of the actual diagnostic tests that were done to diagnose Tink. These would be either the low dose dexamethesone suppression test (LDDS) or the ACTH stimulation test. Sometimes vets will do both tests before starting treatment. Did your vet tell you whether Tink has pituitary or adrenal dependent cushing's?

Depending on where Tink's cortisol levels were on the last acth stimulation test, it is possible that you may not be seeing total resolution of her symptoms because the Vetoryl (Trilostane) is wearing off after 8 or 9 hours. Some dogs are not well controlled throughout the day when this happens so twice daily dosing is normally prescribed.

I know you have a difficult time coming here and posting but we would love to give you meaningful and helpful feedback but without the benefit of seeing the test results, I don't know how to help you understand what is going on with Tink. If you have trouble deciphering the tests or posting the results, I would be happy to do that for you if you would like to email or fax the tests to me. Let me know and I'll PM you my email or fax no.

Glynda

[Cyn719]

Patty - first of all I have to say that is an adorable pic of Tink!!! OMG so cute!!!!! I am sorry Tink is feeling sad - I know the feeling - that is Penny right now - sad and she lost that bounce to her - hopefully with Tink it may be like Glynda said taking the meds twice a day instead of the whole dose in the am - hopefully you have the ACTH test results because that will really help to determine whats going on - will be back to check in - Keep up the good work posting - I know its hard - but it really does help:)

[tinks mom]

I just ran up to the vets to get the results from the testing that was done last thursday. there was only 1 thing on it and that was a Cortisol sample and it was low 0.7. this i see is the ACTH test results that i see eveyone posting. To my knowledge. this is the only time tink has had this test done.
She has had a unrine test 2 blood tests done and that is it. How he knew she had chushings , he looked at her and decieded that was what she had. but did the blood work up before he put her on any meds. and that was the results i posted .
Tink had gained alot of weight and the skin has changed color from a nice pink to black under her arms on her belly, she has the awful potbelly, panting, peeing all the time. and of course the eating and drinking all the time.
The vet is out all this week and the girls that work there are left running wild and free.
I thought there would be more results but they say they mailed them to me. i have not revieved them so who knows. i did get to talk to the vet for a few mins this morning, and he has a call in to an internest SP? and will get back with me in the next few days.
The vet did mention maybe reducing tinks dose from 15 mg to half that so we would be splitting a 30 mg capsual into 4's.
The eating and drinking has slowed some but i still have to remind her to stop drinking and eating.
But she is leaving the bowl now instead of staying till the food bowl is empty.
Patty

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Patty,

If I am understanding your last post, I am extremely concerned about Tink's diagnosis and treatment.

Are you absolutely sure the vet didn't do any Cushing's testing before starting her on Vetoryl? If this is true, this is very risky and the treatment should be stopped NOW. Please verify that she had no testing prior to starting the treatment. I am understanding you to say that he just looked at her and decided she has Cushing's?

By tests I mean the LDDS, HDDS, ultrasound, or ACTH....not the list of results you posted earlier.

[tinks mom]

Yes you are right,
The vet looked at tinker and said she had Chushings . The only tests that have been done on Tink is 1 unrine test and 2 blood tests and the second blood test was done last thursday and it was the ACTH results that i just posted.
Patty

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok, based on that info and the results of the ACTH, I suggest you do not give any more meds to Tink until she can have some testing.

0.7 is too low and could lead to some real problems - life threatening problems quickly. Is she eating ok? Any loose stools, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting? Is she slow to respond, seen extra sleepy? You do not want to see these things. If you do, she needs to get to a clinic asap. Even if that means an ER open 24/7.

Trilostane (Vetoryl) should never, ever be given to dog without a confirmed diagnosis of Cushing's. Tink wasn't even tested! :eek:

There could be many other reasons for the things you are seeing and for the abnormal results on her blood work; these things should always be ruled out and testing for Cushing's performed before starting treatment of any kind, especially Trilo. I am so mad at your vet I could scream! :mad: Tink may have Cushing's but he has no way of knowing this, period. :mad:

If I were you, I would take Tink to an IMS (Internal Medicine Specialist) asap and have them look her over really well. Tell them she has been on Trilo with no testing to confirm Cushing's. There is no way I would rely on that vet to talk to them; I would take her myself as soon as I could.

And, please, no more Vetoryl. ;)

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[tinks mom]

OK Leslie,
Don and i have talked it over and we will stop the Vetoryl. I really have not seen her change any except that she is sad and sleeps alot.
I should hear from the vet tomorrow.
Patty

[tinks mom]

Leslie,
You really have me scared now.
We were doing what we thought was the right thing to do. After all that is why you go to a vet. to learn the right things to do for your babies.
I hope we have not harmed her. She is so sweet. Of course all our babies can do no wrong. Right ? LOL.
I will be gone a while to fix supper, i will check back in later.
Patty

[Cyn719]

I too also freaked out when I saw the 0.7 - I really thought my vet was the worse but your vet has mine beat for sure!! Only I ACTH test?? It needs to be check alot at the beginning after starting this meds:eek: Please listen carefully to Leslie and the others as I did - the night I posted my Pennys results that were 0.9 they told me to stop the Vetoryl immediately and give Penny her pred - my Penny could not get up and was so lethargic!! My vet didnt even tell me it was low and didnt even tell me if she was lethargic to give her the pred - I was on this forum at midnite with these unbelieveable people - they are the reason Penny is here today - As I learned finally Penny needed to be seen by an Internal Medicine Specialist not a regular GP vet -- Please keep reading and posting and they will all get you through this - if you have any questions about how Penny was at the time I am here to answer - Penny is a 82 lb mixed breed - she is now off Vetoryl and seeing a IMS because Penny may now have Addisions instead of Cushings because my vet gave her to much Vetoryl and did not do the ACTH test when she should of - but stop the meds now!!! Again listen to what each member tells you they know what they are saying!!!!!

[StarDeb55]

Patty, let me expand on why Leslie is so concerned, & I'm very concerned, too. Cushing's is the most difficult of canine diseases to diagnose. This is because its symptoms are shared by diabetes & hypothyroid. It's also difficult to diagnose because there is no one specific test that can say, "Oh, yes, this dog has Cushing's." It's not like diabetes where you do a blood sugar, find out that the sugar is high, & you can say diabetes. Did your vet rule out diabetes & thyroid? The other problems is that the gold standard used for making the diagnosis is a low dose dexamethasone suppression. The low dose test has one big drawback, in that it can show a false positive in the face of non-adrenal illness. This is why it's critical for any single positive result on a Cushing's diagnostic test, whether its an ACTH or a low dose, be confirmed by a second test, usually an abdominal ultrasound.

Cushpups do have a typical physical appearance, which would lead a vet to suspect Cushing's, but I'm sorry, no vet who really knows proper diagnostic procedures for cushing's would EVER, EVER make the diagnosis based on a physical exam.

The results you posted of 0.7, as Leslie has already explained, is critically low, especially if your little one does not have Cushing's. I will repeat what Leslie has said already. If Tink shows any signs of lethargy, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, inappetance, she will need to be seen be a vet immediately, even if you go to an ER clinic. Critically low cortisol results can cause what is termed an Addisonian crisis which, if severe enough, can be life threatening. By any chance, did your vet give you any prednisone in case you have an emergency? If you do have some, please give Tink a pred, if she shows any of the symptoms that we have mentioned.

Glynda explained to you earlier what proper monitoring procedure is for trilostane. An ACTH is to be done on day 10, then at the 30 day mark. Has she had any other ACTH besides the one with the result of 0.7? If not, your vet is not following proper protocol in using & monitoring Trilostane. This is another big red flag for us that your vet may not have the knowledge it takes to handle Cushing's disease. A lot of us in this group have learned that hard way that our general practice vets that we have worshipped for years, who have done a good job of taking care of our furbutts general healthcare needs, just do not have the specialized training to handle a complicated endocrine disorder like cushing's. Please consider getting a referral to an internal medicine specialist, & as Leslie said, no more trilostane until we can help you get this sorted out.

[Cyn719]

Like Debbie said


A lot of us in this group have learned that hard way that our general practice vets that we have worshipped for years, who have done a good job of taking care of our furbutts general healthcare needs, just do not have the specialized training to handle a complicated endocrine disorder like cushing's.

I am one of those people who learned the hard way and I dont want that to happen to you - please take all the advice you are given on this forum and find a IMS immediately

[tinks mom]

Thanks for all the advice,
No i don't have any prednisone to give Tink and there was never any mention of it.
Tink is off of vetrol till i find out more. Sounds like she will be better off not taking it for now.
Good night to all and i will be back in the AM to read more and try to learn more.
Patty

[Cyn719]

The vet should of never started Vetoryl without sending you home with pred -- Sorry we hit you with so much tonight but we are thinking about Tinks health and care - I know first hand its alot to take in - I was so overwhelmed in the beginning (and at times still am)but you will get through it and and we are all here to help you - remember you are a great mom to Tink!! Hope you get some sleept tonight xo

[Harley PoMMom]

You can find a ton of information about Cushing's here: Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=10)

Please don't hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi Patty,

You did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong either when I placed blind faith in my vet to know what he was doing but he didn't. I'm actually going to reserve my opinion until we have more facts. If you are anything like me, you are confused right now and are feeling awkward about questioning your vet when you don't quite knøw what questions to ask or why. That's a perfectly natural feeling until you discover that that Tink will be much better off if you and your vet work as a well oiled machine.

I'd like to make a suggestion that can help on that front. A good number of us or our vets have contacted Dr. Tim Allen, an internal medicine specialist on staff for Dechra, the manufacturer of Vetoryl (Trilostane). He is a specialist and few, if any, knows more about Vetoryl than he. Dr. Allen is very nice and he's been an amazing help to many of us. Why don't you suggest that your vet contact Dr. Allen to discuss the testing he did to diagnose Tink as well as the results of acth stimulations tests done since starting treatment. It's free so your vet has nothing to lose but has a lot of continuing education to gain.

Timothy A. Allen, DVM (SAIM)
Technical Services Veterinarian
Dechra Veterinary Products
Toll free: 866.933.2472
Fax: 913.327.0016

[Skye]

Hello, was reading over some of the thread here. Checking to see how everything is going and perhaps what your location is that we can help suggest an area to look for a specialist. I first came here with my darling, my vet to, and me even, thinking cushings.....thanks to the ones here, and how they have held onto me this long is amazing because that roller coaster ride that was mentioned....yeah....its like no other experience. Everyone here helped me to know and understand the lab results, and perhaps what to question, and request....my vet has been a practicing for over 40 years.....so asking questions, making suggestions, pushing in certain directions can be slightly..coughcough, intimadating. I have a stack of notes, scribbles, thoughts, etc....and you know what.....bottom line....guess what was found. Left Adrenal Glad tumor....Landed me and sweet reason to smile each day at Gulf Coast...Houston area. She has not had her surgery yet due to some complications that happened recently with her and she has to stable back out.
Your little one may have all the clinical of Cushings..........but....there are other things that can look like cushings too. Potbelly, thinning hair, water and urination increases, etc.......ultrasound is a great thing to invest in when it comes to testing. It wont show pituary gland, but will show other organs. My two cents, please get ultrasound. The condition of the organs, may help lead direction of which tests to order from there. Keep us all posted, and trust me when they say your not going through this alone.....they mean it.

[Cyn719]

Patty - I spoke many times with Dr Allen about Penny and the Vetoryl - the members here said to speak with him and I did - he is wonderful!!!! Just have the results in front of you and the dose of Vetoryl - he is so kind and you can ask him anything!!

[tinks mom]

Good morning all,
I have started the search for a vet that is a internal medicine specialist.
So far i have not found one in the area. We live in a very small town It had 4 vets but are down to 2. we live in the country so 1 of them is large animals and small but will tell you right up front that he does not have the small animal equipment to take care of small pets. to bad he lives just on the corner. LOL
The next vet is small animals only and is the one i use. As you might know this area is loaded with breeders, in other words puppy mills. so the vet i use is busy all the time with taking care of those dogs as they make him the most money.
We use to live in Joplin all our life, yes the town that got hit by the tornado.
The vet i used there is a good vet but is not board certified internal medicine specialist.
So i am going to the net to see just how far away i will have to look.
I cannot belive some of the prices people have to pay for different vet services.
The ACTH test here was $52.oo, i think i read that some of you have paid $200-$400.
Thanks for the advice.
Patty

[Cyn719]

Patty - wow you only pay 52.00 for a ACTH test? I pay 200.00! Where do you live ? I am sorry there is no vet right around you for Tink - When I told the members where I lived they found my IMS that was 40 minutes from me - I hope you have some luck - how is Tink today??

[tinks mom]

Hi again,
I called the vet Timothy Allen that was suggested on here but he has retired.
There was another vet but he was gone right now. I did talk to a very nice girl who would not say the vet was not doing the testing right or wrong but keep telling me how it should be done and asking for the pre and post numbers. Just like all of you have wanted but i don't have those numbers cause the vet only drew blood once and did 1 test.
She did agree however that the number was very low.
Patty

[StarDeb55]

Patty, the usual procedure for an ACTH is a blood draw is done to get what is called a baseline cortisol level. A drug is administered, usually cortrosyn, then you wait for 1 hour. At the one hour mark, a second blood draw is done to get what is called the post value for the cortisol. Do you know if a drug was administered, then the blood was drawn after one hour, & no blood was drawn prior to the drug being given? If this is the case, that is exactly why you are only paying $50 for an ACTH.

Debbie

[tinks mom]

Cindy,
I live in Neosho, Mo. and Tink is doing good today. she is still sleeping alot and laying around but if she hears a noise outside then she is ready to go get it and protect her mom and dad.
Bless her little heart. poor little toothless baby.LOL
Patty

[tinks mom]

Debbie,
No Tink was not given any drug, we waited while they drew the blood.
He might not have know how to do the test right. I will talk to him when he calls me later today.
I have lots of questions to ask him, he might be sorry i found this group. LOL.
Thanks again to everyone for all the help.
Patty

[StarDeb55]

One more question about the testing. Was the test done in the vet's office or was the blood sample sent to an outside lab? The great majority of vet's offices do not have the equipment that will do an ACTH test which is why it has to be sent to an outside lab. You normally have to wait 24-48 hours for a result. If you got results that day, Tink did not have an ACTH, I'm afraid. I know there is some type of in-office test that will measure a random cortisol level, but this is not an ACTH.

Debbie

[tinks mom]

Debbie,
Tinks blood was sent off as we had to wait to get it back.It went to a place called ANTECH diagnostics.

So at least that part was right.
Patty

[tinks mom]

Hi All,
I have an update on Tink, My husband had a long talk with our vet and the vet said that he diagnoised tinks cushings from sight and that he might not have done the right testing.
He has suggested we find a vet to do an ultrasound of her tummy.
We found a vet in a town about 40mins away and have made an appointment for Tinker at 2 this afternoon.
He will look at all the test results i have from my vet and go from there. If he feels Tink needs and untrasound he will do it right then.
Or if he feels tink needs more tests he will do that.
Thanks for helping us like you did.
So maybe Tink doesn't have cushings ...............
Patty and Tinker.

[StarDeb55]

Patty, before any ultrasound is done, you need to make sure that it is done on a high resolution machine. Most general practice vets do not have this type of equipment. I am glad to hear that your vet appears to have admitted his error. Hopefully, this new vet can get things sorted out for you, & the best outcome would be no Cushing's. Please keep us posted.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Wiil be back to check on Tink!!

[tinks mom]

Thanks to everyone that helped me sort things out.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Tink didn't have cushings? But even if the tests prove that she does have cushings. I feel i have found a good support group.
Tink will be left at the vets all day tomorrow so he can do a number of tests and draw blood serveral times during the day.
Thanks again,
Patty and Tink.

[StarDeb55]

It sounds like Tink will be having the low dose dex test which is the gold standard to diagnose Cushing's. It definitely sounds like this vet has got you on the right path, so hopefully this will all work out.

Please keep us posted.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Patty - Good Luck with Trink tomorrow at the vets - will be checking in again - Sending Hugssssssss!!!!!

[lulusmom]

Hi Patty,

I hope Tink aces the LDDS and doesn't have cushing's but if she does, we're here to help you both through any rough patches. Fingers and paws are crossed for normal results.

Glynda

[ShannonJ92]

Good luck to Tink at the vet's for tomorrow, will check back for updates to see how things went.

~Shannon

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Patty,

I lost computer connection right after talking with you the other day and have been worried about Tink but am so happy to see she is doing alright...AND that she will be getting the proper testing. :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[tinks mom]

Tinks back home,
So the wait begins, more than likley won't know anything till the first of the week.
I really like this new vet, and all the girls that work there, they were so nice to Tink, they made her feel special. And that made everything alot nicer for her and for us.
My sister and her husband will be here all next week ,they get here tomorrow and will stay till next sat. so i might not be on very much but i will let you know what the results are when we get them.
Patty and Tink

[Cyn719]

Glad Tink had a good day at the vets - i know Penny hates it there and is not right for days!! So wonderful that were good with Tink - will look for your post next week - enjoy your company:)

[tinks mom]

Good afternoon,
Tinks mom here. She is doing really good, she has been on 30 mg of vetoryl, once a day for over 2 months now.
She has lost weight and has gone from 10.6 pounds to 9.2 pounds as of the 23rd of dec.
She is up more ,having less accidents in the house.
We give her the meds in boiled chicken, so now she wakes us up 2-3 times a night wanting it. She is not happy till we give it to her, but i make her wait till around 7AM before i give it to her.
Guess she really likes the chicken.
Just thought i would let you all know that things were going good here. After they looked so bad just afew months ago.
Patty and tink

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Patty,

Good good to hear from you and Tink! Especially nice to hear that she is feeling so much better these days! :)

I hope you had a great Christmas and that 2012 is the best year yet!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[tinks mom]

Hi Leslie,
It was a nice Christmas because Tink has been doing so much better and because of the nice weight loss she has gotten since being on the med.
Hope you and yours are well and doing good.
Patty and Tink

[Skye]

wishing you a blessed and happy healthy new year, paw hugs to tink.

[Cyn719]

I am soooo happy Tink is doing good:D:):D:)

Wishing you and Tink a very Happy and Healthy New Year!!

Hugsssssss xoxo

[tinks mom]

We took Tink to the vet to weigh her yesterday and she is down to 8.8. she had gotten up to 10.6.
I am starting to worry will she level out on her weigh loss. I sure hope so. Funny i never thought i would worry about such a thing as that. LOL
Patty ,
Tink's mom

[tinks mom]

Hi all,
Tinks mom here.
Things have not been easy here for Tink or those who love her so much.
Tink has stopped eating and even leaving her bed. She is still losing weight really fast.
When she does leave her bed she falls over.
So i took to force feeding her yesterday, guess i am not ready to lose my love.
Things are going really good so far. she has been out of bed a couple of times to look around. and has not fallen over.
I feed her 4 times aday.
Hope things are going better for the rest of you with sick babies.
I have 1 question........ Tinks acts like she cannot see sometimes. Do they lose their eye sight with cushings?
Tinks mom

[frijole]

I was just thinking about you last night and wondering how Tink was doing.... It could be that the trilostane dose is too high for wee little Tink. As the weight goes down the dosage might need to go down also. Have you had a recent acth test? The lack of appetite and ability to walk are certainly signs that the cortisol is too low.

I would cease giving trilo and see if that helps and also go in for an acth test. Give Tink a hug ok! Kim

[frijole]

Oh and they can lose eyesight but not from cushings, from something called SARDS - here is a link

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213
Eyesight can be saved but you have to act fast as I understand it.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Tinks Mom,

Has Tink had an ACTH Stim test lately? Is it possible her cortisol level has dropped too far and therefore the loss of appetite?

When my Roxee wouldn't eat, I had to stop the Trilo for a few days to get her to eat again and found out via the ACTH stim test that she was borderline low and we had to decrease the amount of Trilo.

[tinks mom]

Thanks to those who have answered me.
Tink is to have the test next week and i will talk to the vet about decreaseing her doseage of her meds. She is so frail now a days that it worrys me.
Patty

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Patty: My Jenny was on lysodren but she stopped wanting to eat and was sleeping a little more. I was so sure it wasn't her cortisol because we had just had an ACTH done in December when her post # was 4.9

Finally took her in and she was .3.

I really encourage you to stop the medicine now. It shouldn't hurt her too much to have a few days off should it?

Tink's symptoms sound a lot like Jenny's. I had even resorted to home cooking which I swore I would never do but it was the cortisol.

hugs, Judi

[frijole]

Thanks to those who have answered me.
Tink is to have the test next week and i will talk to the vet about decreaseing her doseage of her meds. She is so frail now a days that it worrys me.
Patty

Patty,

I agree that you should quit giving it now and I would plan on taking her in first thing Monday - dogs that are this sick are emergency cases and you shouldn't have t have an appt. If this continues you might consider calling the emergency number for your vet. Low cortisol can kill.

Do you have prednisone on hand? Kim

[labblab]

I agree with the others -- I am worried that Tink is being overdosed with the trilostane and this can truly kill her. Flat out kill her.

The last time we heard that cortisol testing had been done, Tink's result was too low. Has any testing been done since that time in order to show that Tink's cortisol has ever really recovered from being too low? You were also planning to have some diagnostic testing done in order to determine whether or not Tink actually has Cushing's at all. Can you tell us about any tests that have been done since you wrote to us last?

I am very, very worried about Tink. I totally agree that you need to stop the medication and get her in for testing as soon as possible.

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Patty, the stim can't wait until next week, if Tink has truly gone too low. If she has gone low enough the production of aldosterone in the adrenal glands can be severely affected. Aldosterone is just as crucial as cortisol as aldosterone controls the electrolyte, sodium & potassium) levels in the body. If there are severe problems with the electrolyte levels, this is a life-threatening situation. Please consider getting your baby to an emergency clinic to at least get her electrolytes checked, if they don't want to do a stim.

Debbie

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Patty: wondering how your Tink is. Judi

[tinks mom]

Hi Tinks mom checking in for may,

Life has not been easy this last month. Tink has stopped eating and i am force feeding her. she no longer gets out of her bed. She is still losing weight.. she has started to have seziures.sp?

All in all things are going down hill for her.
The vet has said it is a matter of time untill we put her down or she gives up completly.

Here's hoping things are going better for others in the group.
Patty

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

oh Patty I'm sorry to hear this. hugs

[tinks mom]

Thanks,
Patty

[labblab]

Patty, I saw that you had posted these replies today on our "Checking In" thread and I have taken the liberty of moving them here to Tink's own thread. This way, people will have a better understanding as to what all's been going on with Tink.

I am still SOOOO worried about her -- have you had any of the testing done that you were talking about earlier? It still sounds as though her cortisol level may be way too low. If so, she still could recover if the trilostane dose is altered or stopped. What has your vet said about that?

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Patty,

My thoughts and prayers are with Tink, you and your family. Please let us know about Marianne's questions - we all want to help so badly. Know we are here anytime....

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[tinks mom]

Tink has been tested for her cortisol levels and they came back 1.4 which the vet says is within the reference range of 1.0-5.0

Don and i have talked things over and we have taken it upon ourselfs to change the way Tink is getting her vetoryl caps of 30 mg from 1 everyday to 1 every other day.
This along with i changed her to baby food and have started to blend her foods she is now eating from a spoon for me 4 to 5 times day and is doing really good. she is gaining strength and getting up more.
I know it is not a cure all but for now we are seeing her improving.
I think i failed to mention that her eye sight is going too.
Bless her little heart. We love her so much.
Patty

[labblab]

Patty, thanks so much for checking back with us! Do you know whether Tink's 1.4 reading was from an ACTH stim test (this test has two values: a "pre" and a "post" number from blood samples that are drawn 1-2 hours apart), or whether it was a single blood sample of her baseline cortisol? The manufacturer of Vetoryl (brandname trilostane) states that any post-ACTH reading lower than 1.45 ug/dl is too low, and that the drug should be stopped at least temporarily and the dose lowered. I think the fact that Tink is now doing better since you've cut back on her trilostane is proof that she has been getting too high a dose! Can you stop giving it to her entirely for a few days in order to see how she responds? You may be very surprised at the improvement. Here's a link to information published by the manufacturer that confirms that a cortisol reading lower than 1.45 ug/dl is too low:

http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Patty, I'm glad to hear that Tink is doing a little better. I must give you one word of caution on the baby food, it must have absolutely no onion or garlic in it's ingredients including onion powder or garlic powder. Onion can cause a life-threatening anemia in canines.

Debbie

[tinks mom]

Hi all,
I will try to answer some of the questions, First the test. They kept tinker for 45 mins ( they put her to sleep to draw the blood. I didn't like to hear this.)and i believe it was an in house test. Nothing sent off.
This is a very small town i live in with country vets. Good for most all things but i do believe the vet is guessing with Tink, So most times i come here for answers and then tell him and he is always surprised to hear the things i know.
Debbie, thanks for the heads up on the onion and garlic thing. I will go and check what i have bought for her as soon as i get this typed.
The vet says she should have quite,but for now at least that is a hard thing to come by.
Our granddaugther her husband , their 2 kids and 2 dogs have moved in with us. they have been here 3 months and as much as i love them i feel the noise level to be almost to much some days. LOL
But they have no where else to go and we do love them so.
As always thanks for all the information you all give me.
Patty

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Patty,

You and Tink have been on my mind a lot. I hope she is doing a little better?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang