will be testing hopefully soon (Update: Left adrenal tumor) [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

Skye

09-21-2011, 11:08 PM

I can not even begin to express my gratitude for the responses and support you have expressed for my baby and myself. I sat here reading the replies with tears forming in my eyes. she is my life.....she is joy, happiness, she makes my heart beat, in the rare times she has not been home with me, the empty feeling, and void is smothering. I do not have human children, my heart loves not knowing a difference. So the support shown here is amazing and i cant not thank you all enough. I was so grateful to have found this site.
To date, just the blood panel test and urine test results that i had already given results on. her AP 317, her urea nitrogen creatnine is 38, and her coristal and toxins are high.
Yes she does have signs...........muscles in last 1/4 of her back are very different, reocurring bladder infections, hair loss under side chest area where her breasts are, sometimes she does look round bellied, others times not so much, some days she does drink excessive amounts, and urinates often. some days seem like normal. She is not over eating, though has become quite guardian over her food. She is 8. Doctor says he would like to do dexamethasone suppression Test and ACTH (i think that is right) Stimulation test. i am also going to ask for an ultra sound. he says its very gray area right now, but he also knows how i am.....I am soooooo observant of her that i notice changes fairly quickly. I even examine her pooh weekly. (country girl, taught that pooh is gold when it comes to checking health of alot of animals, lol). So the doctor knows if it is this, it is being caught fairly early.
John, Is the UC /CR test different than the urine test that is done for a senior exam? Addy, yes that is EXACTLY what i have been doing. exactly. What mimics cushings?
again i can not express how much you all caring, without even knowing for total positive, this has meant to me.
Skye

Roxee's Dad

09-21-2011, 11:47 PM

Hi Skye,

John, Is the UC /CR test different than the urine test that is done for a senior exam?

I'm not sure what your vet was checking for in the senior exam but here is a quote.

Urinary Cortisol: Creatinine Ratio

The determination of the cortisol (corticoid):creatinine ratio (UCCR) in urine samples taken in the morning can be used in the investigation of hyperadrenocorticism in dogs. It is the least stressful of all the diagnostic tests as owners can obtain samples in the home environment. It is also extremely sensitive with a reported range of 0.75 to 1.0. However, it lacks specificity with values as low as 0.21 especially if the animal is stressed or concurrent moderate to severe non-adrenal illness is present. Overall, its high negative predictive value suggests that hyperadrenocorticism is unlikely if the UCCR is within the reference range but that further investigation for hyperadrenocorticism is warranted if it is elevated.

Extremely elevated UCCR values occur almost exclusively in PDH. Suppression to greater than 50 % of baseline following oral administration of three doses of dexamethasone (0.1 mg/kg) is similarly consistent with PDH. Overall, it is considered an inappropriate test for accurate monitoring of adrenocorticolytic therapy.

From this link:
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18195&O=Generic

This site was a life saver for me too :) These great people helped me keep my sanity and understand exactly what cushings is, the treatment options and to know enough to be a advocate for my pup to ensure she received the best treatment and proper care and follow up possible.

Harley PoMMom

09-22-2011, 12:01 AM

Is the UC /CR test different than the urine test that is done for a senior exam?An UC:CR (urine cortisol:creatinine ratio) is not the same as a basic urinalysis test that is done. Dog's that have Cushing's Disease will excrete increased levels of cortisol in their urine. The cortsiol level is compared to the creatinine level. Creatinine levels remain constant in dogs with normal renal function. The UC:CR has a good sensitivity (98%) of ruling out/in Cushing's. Here are two posts from Dr. Bruyette, a renown Cushing's expert, about the UC:CR:
Yes. The same would apply when looking at urine cortisols in the initial diagnosis of Cushings. Ideally 3 morning pooled urine samples collected by the owner at home and refrigerated.

Dave

Urine cortisols can be a problem. Many studies have shown that the only way to accurately gauge urine cortisol levels is to obtain the first morning voided urine sample on 3 consecutive days and then pooling the urine to run a UCCR. When done in this fashion it is likely an accurate test. Otherwise there is likely too much day to day variation to make a single random cortisol very helpful.

Dave Bruyette DVM DACVIM

What mimics cushings?

Skye

Symptoms such as excessive thirst and urination are also shared by other non-adrenal illnesses such as diabetes or an UTI. Thyroid problems can cause some of the same Cushing symptoms too.

The ALP can be elevated by the use of rimadyl, many things can cause the ALP to be high.

Keep asking question! You're doing a great job!

Love and hugs,
Lori

Cyn719

09-22-2011, 12:07 AM

Hi Skye and welcome - my Penny wash 71/2 - 8 when we found out she had Cushing but did not start treatment until 11 - she will be 12 in November - she is on trilo (Vetoryl) and she is doing good - it is so scarey and I couldnt believe it when I found out neither and I cried for days - the best thing was finding this forum - ask all the questions you have - post all the results you have now and in the future and have the ACTH test -- make sure you have a vet who knows AOT about cushings - I learned that the hard way and thanks to all the Cush Angles on this forum Penny is with us today!! They are turly the BEST!!!!!!! Is your dog already scheduled for the ACTH? Stay calm and keep posting and asking questions!! We are all here for you!!

Skye

09-22-2011, 12:44 AM

This is difficult to learn and be emotional. Laughing, snotting and crying, talk about multi tasking. Okay so her creatinine was slightly elvated, it showed 38, I believe he said normal range is 27-30
Thyroid, he said "good"
Blood counts he said "good"
Liver he said "normal"

Skye

09-22-2011, 01:19 AM

ugh sorry bout that i typed my post then clicked something incorrectly and lost part of it, and posted some of it.
Thyroid, he said "good"
Blood counts he said "good"
Liver he said "normal"
urea nitrogen creatine 38 (normal is 27-30)
Alkaline Phosphate 317 (normal is 10-150) (time to be real concerned is if it reaches 3 times normal so 450 or above but i am real concerned at 317)
Protein he said "high"
Cortisal he said "to much"

changed her diet to w/d perscription for the protein to go down.
and get ACTH test (hopefully friday)

He said that is an all day test. I hope they dont mind me in the lobby area. I also hope they let me take her out for potty breaks. and play her "through a dogs ear" music. (omg that is awesome, she relaxes so well to that)
Any advice, knowledge i gladly will take, and the support, (teary) the support is a God send. You are all so strong.....amazing. If anyone is in Houston Tx area, please advise me of what doctors you have heard of......never hurts to get 2nd opinion if i felt i needed to do that.

ShannonJ92

09-22-2011, 02:59 AM

Hello/welcome!

I'm not at the level of these other fine people here in offering more specific advice as we're just recently diagnosed too, but I've already found great support and advice here so I think you're in a good place. I know it can be emotional, I'm right there with you in that place. Do as much research as you can and keep posting.

We're doing the diet change too for Pebbles, our Yorkie. Trying Purina NF but she's not overly fond of it, just one topic I need to discuss with vet at appt. tomorrow more follow-up blood work is scheduled. Pebbles had the ACTH and LDDS tests recently and it was all day. Hope they let you stay, if that's what you'd like to do.

Nice to meet you,
~Shannon

Squirt's Mom

09-22-2011, 09:49 AM

Hi Skye and welcome to you and your baby! :)

Oh, honey, do I know where you are right now. When my Squirt was first diagnosed in March of '08, I thought we were both going to die...my heart was crushed, my soul in agony and I was so, so lost. I had never heard of Cushing's but I could tell by the look on my sweet vet's face that is wasn't good. As she started to explain what it was, my mind simply shut down - I couldn't understand a single thing she was saying because there was the voice in my head screaming, "NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!" as tears poured down my face and I held Squirt so tight against me as if I could prevent this from being true. She is my heart and soul. I cannot imagine life without her at my side ever.

I went home and started researching on the web - oh, man, the horror stories I found, the discouragement, the contradicting info...the nightmare grew worse instead of better. I finally found and joined a couple of forums for canine cushing's thinking I would find help and support there. Instead I found ridicule for the protocol my vet was suggesting, I was told horrible things like I might as well put a bullet in Squirt's head if I followed my vet's advice, that I had no business having a dog if I didn't force my vet to do as those people said - and worse. I left those places full of anger, and even more lost, hurt, afraid and confused.

By the time I got here, to our family, I was a total basket case. It is a wonder someone here didn't track my address down and send a whole crew of men in white coats to take me away to the booby hatch! :eek::D A dear friend here later described me as a woman with her finger stuck in a light socket, hair standing on end...she was kind enough to leave out the part about flying slobber and spiraling eyes! :p I was still seeking help, but I was also prepared to take on the world to defend my baby, my love for her, and the care she was getting. :o Guess what? They took my crazy wild self and wrapped their arms around us. They held me until I could stop thrashing around and throwing punches, and they began to teach me.

With kindness, gentleness, love, and pure steadfastness they led me along until I could once again breath, until could hear again, until I could start to learn what I needed to know in order to help my Sweet Bebe. Very quickly I realized that Squirt and I were finally home. Oh, what a relief that was! We have now been here for 3 1/2 years and these wonderful folks saved not only my sanity, but they saved my Squirt. They took my all my anger, frustration, confusion, guilt, and grief and turned it all into a determination to learn.

I wish I could tell you that today I am sane, but that just isn't true. These are amazing folk, no doubt about it, but some things are beyond their abilities. :p But I can tell you that I am no longer afraid of the future and what it might hold for my baby where Cushing's is concerned. I told someone the other day, if I could choose an illness for one of my babies to have, Cushing's would be at the top of that list. ;)

So, you just hang on to us as tight as you can and we will walk every step of this journey with you. You are no longer alone but are now a member of one amazing family. And I am so glad you found us.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I forgot to tell you - we do have our own little looney bin here so if you ever feel the need, just holler and I'll scoot over for you. :p

lulusmom

09-22-2011, 10:01 AM

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I've read your posts and based on the information you have provided so far, I am not certain cushing's is involved. Please see my comments in blue below. I am about to be away from computer access for a few days but if you get back with answers or further information, I am positive other members will be johnny on the spot and will respond.

1. Protein in her kidneys is to high. It is true that dogs with cushing's can have protein in the urine but this is usually secondary to the disease and does not mean kidneys have impaired function. Bladder/urinary tract infections can also cause protein in the urine. One of my cushdogs is pretty consist with a 1+ or 2+. Can you post your dog's number? urea nitrogen creatnine is 38 and it should be 27-30 cause: , possilbe use of rimadyl although not used routinely and at low dose matter of fact she doesnt take it very often at all. How long had it been since the last dose of Rimadyl prior to the bloodwork?
reason she would take it is because of her (issue number 2.) joints and back injury that is moderate to severe and has some fusion
solution: changing her food to WD Hills which is a low protein food. Unless a cushdog is in renal failure, restricting protein is not good. The recommended diet is a good quality higher protein with low fat. Did your vet diagnose renal failure? Can you please psot the creatinine and BUN values? has great omega fatty acids i guess i have not seen the label.
solution: to aide her with her joints and back she should have Adequan injections, 2 a week for a month then one every 2-3 months
3. Alkaline Phosphate is high its 317 normal 10-150 This is not that high. This liver enzyme can be this elevated with a tooth infection or the pancreas which is really common. Has your vet checked your dog's mouth? Can you look at the bloodwork and post the values for amylase and lipase, including the normal reference range?
solution: dexamethasone suppression Test and ACTH (i think that is right) Stimulation test
and her coristal and toxins are high
BUT liver is good. Did you vet say liver is good because it looks good on xray, an ultrasound or because only the Alkaline phosphatase was elevated?
checking for Cushings disease.
been sobbing, snotting, stressing, and she is the one comforting me. I should be strong for her. I need to be and I will be. This is the normal reaction for anybody who loves their dog with all their heart. The three esses (sobbing, snotting & stressing) are definitely something we are all familiar with. You can take heart in knowing that you are not alone and we're here to help you in any way we can.
if anyone has feedback on what they think is happening, or can welcome me to support, would be great.

Yes she does have signs...........muscles in last 1/4 of her back are very different Loss of muscle mass in hindquarters is not uncommon in a senior dog with prior back injuries and chronic joint issues. Dogs with typical cushing's have high cortisol and since cortisol is the body's natural steroidal anti-inflammatory, the dog is self medicating itself and arthritic pain is masked. , reocurring bladder infections, normal dogs have recurring bladder infection too hair loss under side chest area where her breasts are, This is not the normal hair loss pattern in cushing's. Coat starts thinning on tail, back, thighs and works its way down the torso. Did your vet do a skin scrape or culture to rule out mites, bacterial or other possible causes? sometimes she does look round bellied, others times not so much, The pot bellied appearance in cushdogs is caused by an enlarged liver and loss of muscle mass. The pot belly does not go away without treatment. Gas is a more likely suspect in a dog who has a waxing and waning belly. which some days she does drink excessive amounts, and urinates often. some days seem like normal. This is not the norm for a dog with cushing's either. The majority of dogs with cushing's lose the ability to concentrate the urine so it is dilute (clear) and usually odorless. Urine specific gravity is almost always low. Did your vet check the urine specific gravity and if so, can you post the results? She is not over eating, though has become quite guardian over her food. Dogs with cushing's have excess cortisol. Cortisol is a catabolic steroid which chews through protein at a rapid rate so a cushdog is usually hungry all the time. She is 8. Doctor says he would like to do dexamethasone suppression Test and ACTH (i think that is right) Stimulation test. i am also going to ask for an ultra sound. he says its very gray area right now, but he also knows how i am.....I am soooooo observant of her that i notice changes fairly quickly. I even examine her pooh weekly. (country girl, taught that pooh is gold when it comes to checking health of alot of animals, lol). So the doctor knows if it is this, it is being caught fairly early. I've never really understood what catching cushing's early mean in a dog who has none of the usual symptoms. To catch a condition early, you need a confirmed a diagnosis and with cushing's, a confirmed diagnosis should not be made in the absence of symptoms. The goal of treating a cushdog is to resolve the symptoms so even if bloodwork is consistent with cushing's, an experienced vet would not prescribe treatment until the dog is showing overt symptoms. You may want to discuss this with your vet before incurring the expense of comprehensive testing, which is quite costly.
John, Is the UC /CR test different than the urine test that is done for a senior exam? I believe John and Lori have already answered this question for you but I will echo that this is an inexpensive test that can rule out cushing's. After the bloodwork and urinalysis to rule out a UTI and if my dog was symptomatic, a UC:CR would be my first choice of test before incurring the higher costs of an LDDS or ACTH stim test. With respect to Dr. Bruyette's suggestion of a 3 day pooled urine sample, that really isn't the standard practice in the U.S. Most vets and specialists ask that you collect one urine specimen in the morning, preferrably before any meds or food. Stress can increase cortisol so collecting the specimen at home is best. Addy, yes that is EXACTLY what i have been doing. exactly. What mimics cushings? A number of conditions share some or many symptoms that are usually associated with cushing's as well as blood abnormalities. They are too numerous to list but the ones that should be ruled out first are diabetes mellitus and hypothyroidism.
again i can not express how much you all caring, without even knowing for total positive, this has meant to me.
Skye

Cyn719

09-22-2011, 12:08 PM

Skye - When Penny goes for her ACTH test we drop her off at 1030 and pick her up in 1-1/2 - 2 hrs I believe they take her blood when she gets there -then she gets an injection -waits an hours and another blood then done!! So you will have a short wait if thats what they are doing - maybe they are doing more? Hang in there - its hard I know - Ive been a on roller coaster ride with Penny since she had Cushings!!! She is doing ok now - Keep posting

Harley PoMMom

09-22-2011, 12:50 PM

I was wondering how your vet came to the conclusion that her protein-loss was high because if it was from the results of the basic urinalysis then this is not an accurate method at evaluating protein-loss.

The specificity of the dipstick screening test for proteinuria is poor, and therefore confirmation of traditional dipstick-positive proteinuria should be accomplished with a more specific follow-up test, such as the sulfo-salicylic acid (SSA) turbidimetric test, urine protein/creatinine ratio (UP/C) or species-specific albuminuria assay (e.g., quantitative ELISA or ERD® test). http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=591639

As Glynda has mentioned feeding a dog a low protein diet is not usually recommended unless renal function is lost.

addy

09-22-2011, 01:50 PM

That is a good start. What we usually do is request a copy of any tests be sent to us so we have them for our records. "good and too much" needs more definition.:) Don't be afarid to ask your vet for copies of all tests. They can email the tests to you or go via snail mail but you paid for the tests and should always receive a copy for your records.

If the next test is all day it most likely is a low dose dex test. Sometimes vets will allow you to take the dog out in between draws if you promise to be back early so you don't miss the next draw. Even going to a nearby park can help with stress for the pup.

You are off to a good start, keep that box of kleenex handy and learn all you can:):):):)

hugs,
Addy

Harley PoMMom

09-23-2011, 12:13 AM

If anyone is in Houston Tx area, please advise me of what doctors you have heard of......never hurts to get 2nd opinion if i felt i needed to do that.

I don't live in the Houston Texas area but when I searched for an ACVIM Board-certified Veterinary Specialist in Texas using this link:Locating an ACVIM Board-certified Veterinary Specialist in Your Area (http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=3) ,from our Helpful Resource Thread, I found several from the Houston area such as Dr. Jenifer Lunney Brayley, Dr. Jennifer L. Garcia, Dr. R. Dennis Heald, Dr. Christopher J. Jones.

Hope this helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

ShannonJ92

09-23-2011, 02:05 AM

As Glynda has mentioned feeding a dog a low protein diet is not usually recommended unless renal function is lost.

I'm intrigued by this statement (I really apologize on bringing my situation into someone else's thread) but seeking elaboration on the above quote. If it takes a 75% loss in function to in fact show up with symptoms and testing, etc., then isn't that considered significant lost function? I've been confused by the low protein things for Pebbles too and have been advised of the low protein diet to help ease the load on her kidneys. But, she doesn't like the low-protein/renal support foods but will usually eat boiled chicken with rice and sometimes carrots. How safe is the chicken given the protein content - and now with her adrenal tumors which we don't know at this point if they're benign or malignant. How much chicken and/or higher protein content food is safe, or safer, to give?

Squirt's Mom

09-23-2011, 11:36 AM

Here are some links concerning proteins for you both as well as some links concerning managing via diet -

Links to abstracts of studies that have been done on the effect of protein and phosphorous on renal functions in dogs.

Influence of dietary protein on renal functions in dogs - School of Vet Med, University of Penn.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

High dietary protein intake does not cause progressive renal failure in dogs after 75% nephrectomy or aging. - School of Vet Med, Univ of Penn
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/...Suppl/S128.pdf

Dietary Protein Intake and the Glomerular Adapations to Partial Nephrectomy in Dogs - Univ of Georgia, Tulane Univ, New Orleans
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/...Suppl/S125.pdf

Effects of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation in early renal insufficiency in dogs. University of Georgea, Athens
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

Here is an excellent website that deals with canine kidney disease:
http://www.dogaware.com/kidney.html

Dietary Management of Dogs With Renal Disease
http://www.vetprof.com/clientinfo/KidneyDiseaseInDogs/diet.htm

Skye

09-25-2011, 10:51 PM

i am hoping for additional tests next week. But been reading quite a bit of information on the board.
so cushings is not curable.
treatment, treatment is to help ease the symptoms, for the pet, and help the pet owner.
so if your pet is confirmed cushings, adrenal or pituitary, and symptoms are not severe, leave alone till increases and treat from that point.
Treatment does sound fairly difficult, and of course easing the symptoms would be very important. But just wanting to make sure i have clear understanding over all.

addy

09-26-2011, 09:31 AM

Hi Skye,

Yes, you are getting a clearer picture of this disease. Hang in there, you are doing a good job of learning to be an advocate for your pup.

Hugs,
Addy

Squirt's Mom

09-26-2011, 09:41 AM

Hi Skye,

First, I have merged your latest post with your baby's original thread. We like to keep all the info on each pup in one place. That way the history is easy to find if members need to look back.

...so cushings is not curable. The only time a cure for true Cushing's is possible is when the tumor is on the adrenals and the pup is a good candidate for surgery.
treatment, treatment is to help ease the symptoms, for the pet, and help the pet owner. Yes and to prevent organ damage as the condition progresses.
so if your pet is confirmed cushings, adrenal or pituitary, and symptoms are not severe, leave alone till increases and treat from that point. Exactly; signs (symptoms) are critical for the diagnostic phase as well as treatment.
Treatment does sound fairly difficult, and of course easing the symptoms would be very important. With a Cushing's savvy vet and a diligent parent, treatment is not usually difficult. When using Lysodren, the loading phase is the most "difficult" but once on maintenance, most Lyso pups rock along quite well. Trilostane works differently and can require more tweaking to get the dose just right.But just wanting to make sure i have clear understanding over all. You're doing a good job...keep it up!

Please keep reading and asking questions! ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

09-26-2011, 11:48 AM

Its alot to take in for sure !!! but you are doing a good job - and you are getting great information from the people here - treatment does is not a cure but it does help:) Our thoughts are with you!!

Skye

09-26-2011, 05:31 PM

I did not get to speak to Vet today, but he is suppose to call me back tomorrow. I missed his call today and the number to my mobile was not tried....so....have to wait till tomorrow. BUT I did get some more information. And please let me know if i got my ducks in a row to speak intelligently tomorrow there are 3 sections so to speak here is the first. (lol, i am a note taker, and MUST have them to help support my questions or concerns)
Here is what i know at this point:
BUN 38 Range 7-27
Creatinine .8 Range unknown
B/C Ratio 47.5 range unknown
ALT 46 Range 5-107
AP 317 Range 10-150
Uro Bilinogen- normal no range given
Ketones negative no range given
Bacteria none no range given
Mucus none
Crystals none
Liver normal BUT will be requesting to have checked via x-ray and or ultrasound
Thyroid Normal
Glucose normal
Protein 7.11
and another Protein reading of 1+ no range given
Amylase 686 Range 450-1240
Lipase 894 Range 100-750
Urine Specific Gravity 1.060 no range given

Questions i will ask him:
Toxins level and range
Cortisal Level and range
Cortisone level and range

I have numbers on these but what is normal or range:
Creatinine
B/C Ratio
Urine Specific Gravity

Placed on low protein diet, please explain to me again why this was chosen as i dont have clear understanding.
Is her Renal Function not where it should be?

Will then ask if these tests can be done:
Ultra sound to check, bladder, kidneys, adrenal glands, liver, pituarity gland
UP/C
SSA
Turbidmetric (or is this ran with SSA test?)

Are these ruled completely out: Diabetes, Meliltus, Hypothyrodism

Her syptoms are not enough to be medicated for cushings. Her appetitie is slightly decreased, not increasing, her drinking is increased more so on some days than others, her rounded belly is not a constant, (she does have slightly rounded as she does like cookies that i bake her, but not rounded as in beer belly rounded) she does have increased agression when her food dish is out.
(phrases in captured like this, is not for doctor, but me just saying to you all, lol)
okay, so friends, how does the above results impact you to respond? can you think of any additional questions i should ask?
wish i could hug each and everyone of you..............my most treasured blessing, the most meaningful thing to my life, my little girl.

Skye

09-26-2011, 10:44 PM

hopefully someone will have time to read over my last post with all the results and my questions i will ask, and testing to check into. does this sound like cushings from test? i know test only say so much, and symptoms say alot. I have heard if you start before symptoms that the organs will stay healthier longer (?)
so nervous, gawd, so stressed. so frightened.

Harley PoMMom

09-26-2011, 11:17 PM

A dog that has Cushing's Disease almost always has a low urine specific gravity. With your girl's USG (urine specific gravity) being 1.060 and with no strong symptoms, I highly doubt if a diagnosis of Cushing's is likely.

What concerns me a bit is the elevated BUN and protein-loss with an USG of 1.060. So, if this were my pup, I would ask your vet about this and see if an UPC should be done. I would also check into having an ultrasound performed to get a good look at all of the internal organs.

Hope this helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Cyn719

09-26-2011, 11:22 PM

doesnt totally sound like cushings but you are asking the right questions - good luck tomorrow - let use know what the vets says:) thinking of you

Skye

09-27-2011, 12:29 AM

this is sounding like kidney disease isnt it.
i do best if things are just put on the table no sugar coat. Shoot from the hip type talk. I realize this is all opinion, and point of view, but help me be prepared for what is behind door #2...............if it is something else, that seems worse than cushings...........wouldnt you agree? Either way, i will be sure to post what tests will be done, and what the results are when they are in,

ShannonJ92

09-27-2011, 02:15 AM

Skye,

While I can't interpret your results, I am far too new at all this, I just wanted to wish you the best for when you speak to the vet (perhaps you've even done so by now?) and investigate further and get the answers you need.

~Shannon

addy

09-27-2011, 08:13 AM

Hi ,

I am hoping our lab tech, Deb, stops by to check your results.

Hang in there,
Addy

Harley PoMMom

09-27-2011, 08:42 AM

Although I am no expert, I really do not think that she has kidney disease. Dog's with kidney disease have a low USG also. In order for her to have a USG of 1.060 means that her kidneys are concentrating her urine, which is good. USG can vary from day to day so maybe just having an another urinalysis done would be beneficial. A high USG and an elevated BUN can come from a dog being dehydrated too.

I didn't mean to scare you, so sorry for that.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Squirt's Mom

09-27-2011, 10:02 AM

Hi Skye,

One of the key indicators of kidney disease and dysfunction is the creatinine level. Hers is .8 and that is good, based on the usual norms we see around here. BUN can be affected by many factors and controlled to lower it, which will lower the ratio of 47.5. Dehydration, stress, medications can affect the BUN, just to name a few.

If she were mine, I would insist on an abdominal ultrasound performed on a high resolution machine. This test is non-invasive, tho her belly will be shaved and she may be sedated to keep her still, and it can answer a myriad of questions. The U/S saved my Squirt's life by finding a tumor on her spleen. One of our mods says this test gives you "the biggest bang for your buck", and she is absolutely correct in this assessment. ;)

The pituitary gland is in the head and is only visible via an MRI or cat scan - but this is NOT something you need to worry about right now. ;)

DM, or diabetes mellitus, is the common form of diabetes and can be ruled out via blood work as can hypothyroidism, tho both may require more in depth testing if the labs indicate a problem. A more uncommon form of diabetes is DI, or diabetes isipidus and is tested for differently - but again, this is not something to worry about just yet.

Since she isn't showing any signs of Cushing's and she is able to concentrate her urine, I wouldn't worry about her cortisol levels right now either. Cortisol is one of the body's natural responses to stress of any kind so the tests for Cushing's could easily come back as positive when the cortisol was elevated due to another cause - as happened with Squirt's tumor. When it was removed, her cortisol level returned to normal. ;) So, put Cushing's in the back your mind and concentrate on the lab work, UPC and ultrasound. I just don't see the usual indicators for Cushing's. ;)

Your vet should be glad to give you a copy of all her test results which should list the normal ranges for each value - of course, I know how that goes sometimes! :p

The belly swelling and shrinking sounds a bit like a digestive issue to me. Does she have normal stools most of the time? Any nausea or vomiting? I'm not sure why the low protein, either, and would want clarification on that for sure. That Hill's stuff is awful! It is mostly corn so I would want my vet to explain how corn is beneficial to a carnivore. :rolleyes: I admit, I do not like Hill's Science Diet at all in any form for any animal. It used to be a GREAT food but then Nestle bought it from the vet who developed it and changed the formula, ruining it. But in order for diet to help a pup, you have to know what is being addressed and I don't see that you are at that point yet either. First, you need answers then the proper diet. ;)

Let us know what your vet has to say!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

09-27-2011, 02:43 PM

okay hope to have money to do following tests next week
ultrasound both cavities
ACTH
UP/C
Urinine
chem blood
ssa

Range info i got that i didnt have USG range 1.015-1.050
Protein negative to trace (less than one)
Creatinine .4-1.8

Skye

09-27-2011, 09:34 PM

you each have given very valuable information. Very very helpful. I will ask if the ultrasound is high resolution, they told me they call the person and they come in and perform it. So i am guessing it is portable? I dont know. Did your pet have to have full bladder when getting that test? I have friend who had her pet done and they said the bladder was not full enough, they finished the ultrasound, and had to return short time later, pet was sick, had a stone. so i didnt want to risk one not being found.
i will hold off on the ACTH testing then till these results are in. SO GRATEFUL you mentioned what could give a false positive. OMG can you imgaine, being treated for that and not having it.
I just can not figure out what is causing the recurring bladder issues and the protein issue. I am wondering if she doesnt have a stone.
Her water intake has def. increased this past week, and her appetitite seems less. (tummy probably full of water)
i have learned so much here. and the support is amazing. i wish they had something like this, with just as wonderful people, and intelligent, for all concerns.

Harley PoMMom

09-28-2011, 12:42 AM

Not all ultrasounds are created equal. A good quality ultrasound/interpretation depends on a few things; the tool used, the technician performing it, and the physician interpreting it.

When I took Harley to the Univ. of Penn. to have his ultrasounds done they did want him fasted for 12 hours. Some places are different but I think a full bladder is not necessary but might be helpful. I would ask if fasting and/or a full bladder are wanted for the ultrasound.

Skye

09-29-2011, 11:44 PM

I scheduled the appointment today for middle of next week. I am getting half of the test done at this appointment then will have to wait a week or two till i get the rest. So next week, we will do Chem blood, urine, SSA, ACTH. I had orginally wanted to do her ultra sound of both cavitites first, because if she has an issue health wise that is not cushings, did not want to get a false positive. BUT they said they perfer to have the testing done first, that way all testing is available for the doctor who performs ultrasound. I did confirm that they had good equipment, experience and they are widely used. At that time when ultra sound is done, and with the previous test results, it will be determined if the UP/C should be done. And I am also going to have the glucose tested to rule out both forms of diabetes. How does this plan of action all sound besides expensive? lol.

Harley PoMMom

09-30-2011, 12:03 AM

If this were my furbaby, I would have the ultrasound done instead of the ACTH stim test. My reasoning for this is if the ultrasound shows that the adrenal glands are normal in shape and size than Cushing's is unlikely and an ACTH stim test is not needed.

Chronic illnesses can cause enlarged adrenal glands which would create a false positive from the ACTH stim test. This is just my opinion and I hope that others will share their view on this as well.

Love and hugs,
Lori

labblab

09-30-2011, 10:18 AM

Hi Skye,

I totally agree with Lori that I would postpone the ACTH until other testing has been completed. And I am actually glad that your vet is planning to repeat/perform some labwork prior to having the ultrasound done, as well. Because, in all honesty, after looking back through all the test results that you have provided -- I am not seeing a lot of abnormalities.

Let me say, upfront, I am not a vet and I have had no veterinary training. So I am just throwing out some impressions that come to my mind based on my own reading and my experiences. But it looks to me as if several of the lab abnormalities could have been caused, or at least exaggerated, simply by dehydration at the time that the blood was drawn. Lori and Leslie have already pointed out that a high USG and elevated BUN can be caused by dehydration. Also, a dipstick urine protein reading of 1+ could also be explained simply by dehydration:

How do you interpret a positive protein reaction on the urine dipstick?

Proteinuria detected by the urine dipstick should always be interpreted in light of urine specific gravity and urine sediment. Significant proteinuria may be overlooked if urine is dilute and voluminous. Conversely, a protein reaction of trace or 1+ may be normal in concentrated urine.
Quote taken from this website: http://iris-kidney.com/education/en/education03.shtml

Aside from the elevated BUN and dipstick urine protein reading of 1+, the only other lab abnormalities that I am seeing reported on your initial blood results are mildly elevated AP and lipase (both of which could have causes other than Cushing's). I'm assuming that the "Protein" result of 7.11 relates to protein found in a blood test rather than a urine test. And if so, this is not an abnormal reading based on a normal range of 5.2 - 7.8 that I found elsewhere.

So unless I am missing something (which is entirely possible :o), I think the best thing you can do right now is to repeat/add some blood and urine testing in order to further explore these few abnormalities -- making sure that water has not been withheld from your dog during the hours prior to the blood draw. I would wait to see these results before jumping into more expensive diagnostics of any type.

As so many people have already said, I'm just not sure why your vet is suspicious of Cushing's given the lack of traditional symptoms. In this situation, I would absolutely start with the UCCR urine test before launching into an ACTH. The UCCR may point to a need for further Cushing's testing, but it could also rule out Cushing's as an issue altogether. And if the other lab results also come back within normal range this time around, you can be relieved of a lot of worry and a lot of expense with more involved diagnostics!

Marianne

Squirt's Mom

09-30-2011, 11:12 AM

Hi Skye,

I wish I had done the ultrasounds first on my baby because it would have meant the tumor would have been found sooner for one and, for another, it would have saved me about $1000 or more on testing that gave false positives. ;) And all that testing did nothing to indicate there was a tumor on her spleen EXCEPT the elevated cortisol - which was elevated because of the tumor.

Based on what we know so far, I am with Marianne - I just do not see why your vet is so insistent on Cushing's...the signs and test results so far just do not support it. Repeating the CBC (blood chem) and the urine tests I can see - but NOT the ACTH at this point. IMHO, that is money you don't need to spend just yet. ;)

Let us know how things go and keep up the good work, Mom!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

maggiebeagle

09-30-2011, 06:35 PM

Hi, sorry I have missed your posts.
Wanted to welcome a fellow Texan to the forum.
I lost my Maggie 2 years ago at the age of 14 or so and found the support of the folks here priceless. :D
I live near Clear Lake and we saw the vets at Bay Area Veterinary Specialists a few times but most of the care was coordinated through our regular veterinarian. We treated Maggie with trilostane for three years with great success, she was a happy, opinionated little beagle.
Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Skye

09-30-2011, 10:38 PM

Thank each of you for your support and feedback, I was so glad to read all the posts.
so you feel in your own opinions, i understand your not doctors etc.....but from what education you have given me, you all should be! okay so you feel i should proceed with all the tests listed except the acth, and do the ultra sound first. She explained to me that they like to have test results first so the person doing ultrasound can review all the results.
what are your thoughts on this?
and on the acth, do that very last???
she has been having recurring uti. she has had like 3 or 4 since november.
and here is another concern of mine......if the ultra sound shows adrenal gland issues, and the acth test is positive, BUT its from a chronic illness.............not cushings............how do you know it is something else and not cushings? nervous about this. I do know one thing for certain, i am going to post in detail all the results before i let them treat her for that if they say it is that. And urine test....UCCR i am not sure i know what urine test that is??? is that the costrial and creatinine ratio? not sure that one is being done, is that one i need to ask to have done?
And on her blood work, they are not redoing the CBC but a Chem blood work.
could you all give me feedback if the test i have scheduled are good for her symptons? and the doctors also said they offer better rates when lab testing is all grouped together
i am so sorry i bet this is soooo confusing....
okay, i will try and sort through this and this will help me too.
*min pin 8 1/2 female spayed utd on all vaccs
listing only what is not within range, and what information i have.
*BUN 38
B/CR 47.5 (no reference given)
AP 317
Protein 1+
Lipase 894
USG 1.060

Tests scheduled (though i am thinking ultrasound should come first as well)
Glucose testing for DI
Urine
if NO UTI dectected then ACTH
Chem blood
SSA

Then next set of tests would be
Ultra sound both cavities and doctor performing it would be able to review all tests

UP/C if warranted

things i see..........
Repeating UTI (3-4 since November)
increase water drinking
food intake....sometimes normal sometimes more or less...not consistent at time to say for certain
needing to go out to potty more often
she is not as strong on her back end as she was, but she does have back injury and is going to be 9. she just doesnt realize she cant sail through the air and make dare devil leaps
hair loss like where harness would go
sometimes spongey round belly, but i dont think all the time
her coat had dulled, but i think it looks better as of 3 weeks. it does shine.
lays down when eats
more agressive around food
eyes slightly cloudy
changes sides often when resting
will kick back legs often when resting

love any and all feedback, seriously you all are so wonderful. But i understand if person is here that has confirmed cush angel and your needed there. I just dont know what is going on here and omg scares me so terribly.
thank you again.

here is my thought.
Do all urine and blood work with ultrasound

THEN if warrented do
ACTH
UP/C

Harley PoMMom

09-30-2011, 11:32 PM

and here is another concern of mine......if the ultra sound shows adrenal gland issues, and the acth test is positive, BUT its from a chronic illness.............not cushings............how do you know it is something else and not cushings? No Cushing savvy vet will treat a dog without overt symptoms. Strong obvious clinical signs of Cushing's are a huge part of the diagnosis of Cushing's in a dog.

And urine test....UCCR i am not sure i know what urine test that is??? is that the costrial and creatinine ratio? not sure that one is being done, is that one i need to ask to have done?Yes, the UC:CR test is the urinary cortisol:creatinine ratio. I would wait to have this test done until after the ultrasound findings.

And on her blood work, they are not redoing the CBC but a Chem blood work.
On a routine Chem blood panel the glucose is usually tested and also on an urinalysis the glucose is tested from the urine. If both of these tests did not show abnormal results for Glucose then Diabetes mellitus can usually be ruled out.

here is my thought.
Do all urine and blood work with ultrasound

THEN if warrented do
ACTH
UP/C

I think this is a great plan, when my boy, Harley, had his first ultrasound performed it showed, of many things, that he had prior bouts of pancreatitis which Harley never showed symptoms of.

We are always here for you so please do not hesitate to ask us any and all questions. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

labblab

10-01-2011, 08:30 AM

*BUN 38
B/CR 47.5 (no reference given)
AP 317
Protein 1+
Lipase 894
USG 1.060

Tests scheduled (though i am thinking ultrasound should come first as well)
Glucose testing for DI
Urine
if NO UTI dectected then ACTH
Chem blood
SSA

If it were me, I would have the blood and urine testing (minus the ACTH but plus the UCCR) performed prior to scheduling the ultrasound. My reasoning for this is that, depending upon the blood and urine testing, both the ultrasound and ACTH may turn out to be unnecessary. I am thinking that it is possible that your dog's only genuine problem may be finding the appropriate antibiotic for the recurrent UTIs. When she has had the UTIs in the past, has your vet performed a urine culture in order to identify what type of bacteria is causing the problem?

Out of the six abnormal lab readings that you've listed above (including very concentrated urine), it may be possible that four of them were due only to the fact that your dog was dried out -- that she had not been drinking much water in the hours prior to the testing. The remaining two (the mild elevations in the AP and the Lipase) may have been temporary and of no great significance. If all these values come back within normal range with new testing, then there is really no evidence that anything is seriously wrong at all, and no need for an expensive ultrasound and ACTH.

I'm assuming the chem panel that your vets are planning will once again give results for the BUN, B/CR, AP, and Lipase. The urinalysis will repeat the USG. And as Lori has said, the chem panel and urinalysis will also repeat Glucose readings. I think it is reasonable to go ahead and add the SSA to double-check the issue of any protein loss in the urine. And since Cushing's is a concern to your vet, you can also add the UCCR (using a urine sample that you have gathered yourself at home -- we can tell you how). But if it were me, that's all the testing I would do to begin with.

If abnormalities still appear on these lab results and/or the UCCR does not rule out Cushing's, I would then think about going ahead to schedule the ultrasound and/or ACTH. You may also end up adding some additional lab tests, such as one that is specific for identifying pancreatitis. It is absolutely true that a lot of very useful information can be gained from an ultrasound, including evidence to corroborate a Cushing's diagnosis. But not all dogs with Cushing's will exhibit ultrasound abnormalities (up to 30% of dogs with pituitary Cushing's will have adrenal glands of normal size on ultrasound). So again, if it were me, I would first want to find out if there are even any remaining lab abnormalities before moving to the next step. But that is the wonderful thing about this forum -- you can gather thoughts from many different people and then move forward with whatever seems best to you in your own situation.

Marianne

Skye

10-03-2011, 12:16 AM

they said on culture it was e-coli
i am writing the feedback down, and seeing if wednesday tests can be done all but acth and ultra sound, if warranted i will go back and have ultrasound. however at this point what i see is back 1/4 of torso looking smaller than it ever did, hair loss on upper tummy breast area, increase water, decrease appetite. increase urination (probably from increased water) and agression with food. Not sure if this would warrant treatment of cushings. That is a treatment that you want no doubt in before starting..........well, any treatment for that matter but i am sure you understand what i mean.

Skye

10-03-2011, 12:18 AM

i wanted to add.............her appointments have been in mornings, so there is not much if any fluid intake or food prior to her appointment. I have been getting urine samples here at home, however this time they were going to take it from her bladder.

Skye

10-03-2011, 01:11 AM

I am sooooo sorry for posting a 3rd time. I rewrote my notes, and this is what the game plan is. I need this to be perfect. I need to go to Vet Tech school so i have better knowledge on all this. I am making copy of my notes to take into vets prior to her appointment so they can review them and call if they feel a different way is more effective.
Chem Blood panel
will this show readings of previous elevated areas?
*BUN
*B/CR
*AP
*Lipase
*Protein
*USG
Can this blood test also check her glucose level so ear does not need pricked, wanting to confirm DI is ruled out as well. Anything else we can cover with this test at all? areas of concern???

[U]Urine (they are drawing urine directly from bladder this visit)
*SSA
*UC/CR
*USG
*Glucose
anything else at all needing checked??? areas of concern???

[U]Next set of tests if warranted[U]
*UP/C
*ACTH (as long as NO other infection like UTIpresent)
* Double cavity ultrasound

Additional Questions
**Renal function ability: why low protein diet if renal functioning not loss? (is it because of elevated proteins in blood and urine?)

**What other food besides Hills (since Nestle bought it the nutrition part has declined from orginal formual that the vet formualted)

******Main Problematic Symptoms******
Recurring bladder infections

****Clincal notes----Recent observations are not linking soildedly to cushings
*increase water
*frequent urination (from increase water?)
*shows agression around food
*eyes little cloudy
*Tummy sometimes appears rounded (gas?)
*Coat was dull but has regained its sheen
*upper tummy area , breast area, where a harness would go, no hair...hair loss?

this is nearly word for word what i will be dropping off to them, thoughts? feed back? change in tests? omg sooooooo wish you all were closer. Although I bet you all are sooooo glad your not. LOL
this has gotten me seriously thinking i should shop ebay for used books from a vet tech. I have gained so much knowledge here.

Skye

10-03-2011, 02:27 AM

adding more on to this, having urine taken directly from her bladder, will this throw off her cortisal in her blood work up? maybe they should draw blood first then do bladder?

Squirt's Mom

10-03-2011, 09:58 AM

Hi Skye,

You are doing a great job, Mom! :)

I am sooooo sorry for posting a 3rd time. You post as often as you need, honey, and never apologize! I rewrote my notes, and this is what the game plan is. I need this to be perfect. I need to go to Vet Tech school so i have better knowledge on all this. I am making copy of my notes to take into vets prior to her appointment so they can review them and call if they feel a different way is more effective.
Chem Blood panel
will this show readings of previous elevated areas? No, this will only show her values for the day of the test. You can ask for previous copies so you can see changes from one test to the other.
*BUN
*B/CR
*AP
*Lipase
*Protein
*USG
Can this blood test also check her glucose level so ear does not need pricked, wanting to confirm DI is ruled out as well. The CBC, or the blood test she is going to have, will check glucose and proteins, which will give an indication if DI is a possibility. They shouldn't have to prick her ear as they will have plenty of blood. Anything else we can cover with this test at all? The CBC will also give an indication if the thyroid is functioning as it should, something that is often confused with Cushing's. areas of concern???

[U]Urine (they are drawing urine directly from bladder this visit)
*SSA
*UC/CR
*USG
*Glucose
anything else at all needing checked??? areas of concern???

[U]Next set of tests if warranted[U]
*UP/C
*ACTH (as long as NO other infection like UTIpresent) Don't worry about the ACTH just yet. There just aren't enough indicators for Cushing's. The ultrasound in more important than the ACTH at this point. ;)
* Double cavity ultrasound Again, this is a test I would insist on having asap. Just MHO. ;)

Additional Questions
**Renal function ability: why low protein diet if renal functioning not loss? (is it because of elevated proteins in blood and urine?)

**What other food besides Hills (since Nestle bought it the nutrition part has declined from orginal formual that the vet formualted) Unfortunately, your vet is probably going to tell you Hill's is a good feed and no need to change. Most vets are woefully uneducated on nutrition for their patients and rely on the sales reps to tell them what to feed. :(:rolleyes:

******Main Problematic Symptoms******
Recurring bladder infections

****Clincal notes----Recent observations are not linking soildedly to cushings
*increase water
*frequent urination (from increase water?) It is possible the increase in drinking is because of the increase in peeing - ie, the body is draining itself of fluids so she requires water more often.
*shows agression around food
*eyes little cloudy
*Tummy sometimes appears rounded (gas?) If ecoli is present, that could explain the tummy.
*Coat was dull but has regained its sheen
*upper tummy area , breast area, where a harness would go, no hair...hair loss? This hair-loss pattern is NOT the typical one seen with Cushing's - another hint this just doesn't present like Cushing's. ;)

this is nearly word for word what i will be dropping off to them, thoughts? feed back? change in tests? omg sooooooo wish you all were closer. Although I bet you all are sooooo glad your not. LOL
this has gotten me seriously thinking i should shop ebay for used books from a vet tech. I have gained so much knowledge here.
I know what you mean! I am constantly amazed at how much I have learned here!

...adding more on to this, having urine taken directly from her bladder, will this throw off her cortisal in her blood work up? maybe they should draw blood first then do bladder? If she were having any tests for Cushing's, I would say - yes, draw the blood first. But since they are not doing any cush tests I don't think it will matter which they do first. Someone else may have more info on this for you.

Keep up the good work and let us know how the vet visit goes!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

labblab

10-03-2011, 10:24 AM

Yes, you will want to make sure that the new blood Chem panel includes repeat testing for these values that were previously high:

*BUN
*B/CR
*AP
*Lipase

The new urinalysis should give you repeat testing for these values that were also abnormal:

*USG
*Protein in the urine

The fact that they will be drawing urine directly from the bladder for this testing will be good in terms of helping identify whether or not there is any infection present. As far as providing a urine sample for the UC:CR, however, you will want to bring in a sample from home that you have collected yourself, perhaps collected even the day before or the day after the other testing. This is because stress can definitely affect the results of the UC:CR by raising the cortisol level in the urine, and thereby give you a "false" positive result. It is much better if the owner gets a sample at home, when the dog is not under stress. It is best if the sample is collected from the first pee of the morning, and then it should be refrigerated until it can be taken in to the vet. You may end up just talking with the vet about the UC:CR on the day the other testing is done, and making arrangements to take in the urine sample on another day.

As far as concern over diabetes, I keep forgetting to double-check that I assume it is diabetes mellitus (DM) that you are wanting to rule out at this time -- not diabetes insipidus (DI). DM is the form of diabetes that is associated with high levels of sugar. DI is a totally unrelated disorder, and is much less common. It has nothing to do with elevated sugar. So as far as testing for DM, once again, the Chem panel that your vet is planning will undoubtedly recheck the level of sugar, or glucose, in the blood sample. Since the glucose level was not abnormal the last time around, however, I wouldn't expect it to be a problem on this repeat testing, either.

Also, in terms of "protein," it was probably the "1+" protein on the previous urinalysis that had your vet concerned in terms of kidney issues. It will be the SSA that will be a further test related to concern about the protein in the urine. I honestly don't know anything about that test, though, in terms of how it is run or how the sample should be collected. Maybe someone else who knows more about that test will also be checking in.

One more question for you, though (sorry! :o). You've said that the vet has already told you that your dog had a high "cortisol" level. Can you find out what he/she meant by that? It is possible to test the amount of "baseline" or "resting" cortisol in a blood sample, but stress can affect the result, it is not part of a typical blood panel and it also is not a true diagnostic for Cushing's. If you've not already had a urine UC:CR done, or an ACTH blood test, then I'm wondering what cortisol test your vet performed and what the result was. Thanks!

Marianne

Cyn719

10-03-2011, 10:53 AM

Doing a great job mom - Its alot but you are on top of it - thought and prayers are with you!!!! Sending big hugs and lots of support!!!:)

Harley PoMMom

10-03-2011, 02:50 PM

Also, in terms of "protein," it was probably the "1+" protein on the previous urinalysis that had your vet concerned in terms of kidney issues. It will be the SSA that will be a further test related to concern about the protein in the urine. I honestly don't know anything about that test, though, in terms of how it is run or how the sample should be collected. Maybe someone else who knows more about that test will also be checking in.

IDEXX Reference Laboratories routinely performs a confirmatory SSA (sulfosalicylic acid) with any urinalysis when a dipstick assay is positive for protein. The SSA test result is included in the urinalysis report. This is where the gradings of "trace, 1+, 2+, 3+ or 4+ " come from.

Skye

10-03-2011, 07:56 PM

i typed out my notes and dropping a copy off at doctors for their review and I made copy for myself as well.
Marianne, in regards to urine sample being effected by stress the UC/CR, will collect urine in morning and keep in fridge till appointment on Wednesday and maybe they can test for it as well with drawn urine, then they can compare (??? thoughts???) and glucose was within range so DM is ruled out, but will ask for DI to be ruled out and her throid was okay and hypothyroidnism has been ruled out. And I will see if i can out how information on cortisal and toxins was obtained and be sure to post that back to you.
Here are my notes......(should have seen my list on her wellness exam, :) )
Based on previous blood (CBC and urine testing) further testing and rechecking these levels please confirm none are missed.
BUN
B/CR
AP
lipase
Protein (blood and urine)
USG
Cortisal (corticoid)
Toxins
DI
SSA
UC/CR
UP/C
With blood drawn and urine taken directly from bladder for testing done today the elevated areas need rechecked and DI ruled out as well as confirm glucose levels are remaining within range
Glucose was not elevated although on higher end of normal range, will these levels show with the testing performed today?
Any additional information found out would be wonderful
i understand hypothroidism and DM gavwe been ruled out 100% Correct?
Questions and Concerns
elecated BUN and Protein Loss with USG is why i am requesting UP/C
Low Protein diet
If Renal function ability is not loss why low protein food? is it because of elevated protein in blood and urine?
key functions and ingredients of Hills W/D i would like to compare ohter top nutritional brands with key components that offer higher quality nutrition value.
Am i to seek food low in protein and high in omgeta fatty acides?
Liver health was deemed by her AP?
Cortisal Level will this be inaccurate on tests or influeneced because of stress of car ride, urine and blood being drawn, back injury
problematic sympton: UTI's
Clincal Observations
increase water
increase uriantion
agressive when food bowel out
eyes cloudy
tummy sometimes rounded
coat had dulled but has regained sheen
tummy area hair loss where harness would go
back feet slightly drag
My personal feedback on observations
increase water because she has to urinate more often
increased urinating because of increased water
aggression with food, before hand both dogs fed together same food, now seperate and different foods she is protecting her dish
tummy rounded from gas or e-coli present
hair loss cause when smaller did wear harness often, and now it has thinned out even more or could this be a sign of something else??
back feet drag slightly because of back injury that is moderate to severe with fusion, she will be plaed on supplement once i know bladder, kidney, liver, are healthy, and eventually be placed on adaquinn
Personally i do not feel this is linking to cushings strongly enough to consider mediacating for it or diagnoisis of however realize lab and clinical work together on this

Okay Friends how does that sound???
I recapped it as well with what i hoped to learn with all lab results and questions answered.
cant wait to hear from you all
AND if any of you do hear of Tech books (recent) for sale, get in touch with me, i may be interested.

Skye

10-04-2011, 11:22 PM

i drove to vets office today, to drop off all my notes. thought they may like to review them so they can help me more tomorrow. That way they may be thinking i wont be there for 3 hours. Feel nervous for her appointment tomorrow. Dont think I will get to sleep much this evening. So many what if's and could it be............

Cyn719

10-05-2011, 01:01 AM

Thinking of you - let us know how the appt goes - try to relax - I know its hard - believe me - you will get through it - sending all our love and prayers

labblab

10-05-2011, 06:57 AM

Dear Skye,

Good luck with the testing today! We'll all be anxious to hear the results. Since you are concerned about testing for DI (diabetes insipidus), I do want to give you some more information about the disorder and the testing. Because aside from checking the specific gravity of the urine (USG), I think any other testing for DI would be done later (and probably at home). The testing does not involve blood samples. Also, just to let you know, a hallmark of DI is an abnormally low USG. Your dog's previous urinalysis was exactly the opposite -- it showed very concentrated urine. So I think that makes DI an unlikely diagnosis. At any rate, here's more info about the disorder and the testing. This article is arranged in a series of topics. So after you've finished reading one page, you'll need to click on the next topic listed at the bottom in order to continue.

http://www.surroundedbycats.com/di-whatisit.html

Once again, good luck today!
Marianne

Skye

10-05-2011, 12:41 PM

we are home from vets. We had urine drawn from bladder, and i took in urine from yesterday morning (kept in fridge), thought they would use that for the uc/cr, but they didnt seem to intereted in it. They are to do a Chem Blood Panel so that is all in house. And the urine will be sent out so if a SSA needs done guess they confirm it there. Next week will do ultra sound, regardless want to do that to rule out any stones in kidney or bladder, and if warranted a ACTH which I dont think will have to be done but will see. Over all I believe BUN, UP/C, UC/CR, AP, Protein in urine only, not blood, will be checked. I dont think Lipase, Glucose USG will be. whatever can be tested in house with blood will be and they are to call me with results, and see if it needs to be sent out. Normally time flies by each and every day, sigh, i hear every tic toc on the clock and time is nearly not moving. will be relieved to know at least todays results and will be soooooooooooo relieved when next weeks results are in. I bet her and me will sleep sooooo good then. Thank you all again for the strength you have been sending.

Cyn719

10-05-2011, 12:57 PM

Skye I know that waiting game all to well and it rots!!!!! The clock never moves - I am sending love hugs and support your way - will be checking back for the results later today!! Hope the results are good so you both get a good nights sleep - I went last week barely sleeping watching over her for 3 nights and we were both exhausted - what we do for our babies!! Love them for sure!!!:)

Skye

10-05-2011, 01:08 PM

Urine results will hopefully be known by friday............
what i was just told from blood work to day
her Glucose is up a bit more, 112 previously now is 117 could be stress (??)
Kidney was "normal"
however, AP was increase even more....317 previously, and now 481
I am thinking of calling back and asking that they send out for more blood work.
I dont know what this means..........could be liver, could be adrenal glands........which could mean cushings.......or cancer (?) huge knot in throat.

Skye

10-05-2011, 10:33 PM

you know that "mommas gut feeling" i am telling you its knocking me over. Had huge sobbing snot time this afternoon. Then snuggled up with my sweet one for about a hour and telling her how strong i know she is, and brave, how beautiful and meaningful, and how much i treasure her above all things in this world. She gave me kisses and she rested in my arms.
Husband even called vet office to ask a question....that they send the blood out, and, it had already been sent. However, lab will hold it until urine results come in and then they will go forward at what to test blood for. I am thinking of calling my own doctor and getting something for anexity..........or a very large bottle of wine.

Skye

10-05-2011, 11:03 PM

Cyn719

10-05-2011, 11:44 PM

Skye - hang in ther mom - I feel for you - that was me last week with my Penny - so so sick - long days and longer nights - but Penny bounced back - but I know I have to take it day by day - you are doing a great job with your baby - its true the blood can be from them taking the urine - when they took Pennys urine she also bled alittle - do not hesitate to call ER if anything else happens - maybe the appetite will get better in the AM - all of you had a long day -- love and prayers are will all of you xo

Squirt's Mom

10-06-2011, 09:34 AM

Mornin' Skye,

How is your baby this morning? Is she eating?

My Crys had urine pulled several times via cystocentesis and she would have a little blood in the urine after sometimes but not every time. It wasn't a lot and didn't last long at all. If you are seeing bright red blood and a fair quantity of it, I would take her back to her vet just for peace of mind. ;)

You are in a place I hate most of all - the unknown, waiting for an answer. I don't handle this position well at all. My mind runs to the very worst possible outcome every time. I make myself sick worrying about things that never come to pass. :rolleyes: Hopefully, you will have those answers soon. Meanwhile, try to relax and enjoy your baby - easier said than done, I know. ;) I will give you my prescription for times like these -

A hot bubble bath, a good book, and a glass of wine. Lock yourself in the bathroom, soak and sip and read, then crawl in bed and sleep. Try to take your mind off of everything else for just a little while. Chocovine works really well for this! ;):D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

labblab

10-06-2011, 10:34 AM

okay, i am holding her and feel dampness on my arm, she has been wimpering, and obviously not feeling good as of this evening. The fluid was urine and blood. I called the ER and the tech that saw her today was working, and told me the draw of the urine from her bladder may be causing it. OMG can you NOT WARN pet parents of this???? she is miserable, which means i am even more so. She wont eat.
Skye, is your baby actually leaking urine/blood from her abdomen??? If so, this would be a different issue than if she is peeing normally but with some traces of blood in the urine, and maybe the vet tech didn't understand what you were asking about. I don't know whether it is even possible to have urine leak externally from the abdomen after a cysto -- the needle "track" may be too small for that to ever happen. But if it is happening, I think she needs to be seen again by the vet immediately. Either way, if she still seems ill today, I'd take her back to the vet. If by chance the needle tore her bladder wall when they did the procedure, this is extremely serious because it results in urine leaking into her abdomen.

Marianne

Skye

10-06-2011, 11:46 AM

Good morning all you amazing angels. My darling is not feeling well, but well enough to get fired up when the sweeper is out. (made me sooooo happy to know she was ready to kill that sweeper) other wise she seems uncomfortable, slight grunts and moans and sighs which of course breaks my heart. she has not ate this morning other than her pumkin nugget cookie she got this morning after her potty and i collected that urine to make sure it was not bloody to the eye or pink it was not, but very yellow and strong in oder and she had used her piddle pad somewhere between 2 in morning and 8:30 this morning, though she is not one to eat much morning, afternoon. She prefers to eat her serving mid evening, then again later evening. Takes after her mom i suppose.....evening snacker. I am waiting to see what all is going on so I can get her on a "healthier" food. The doctor is annoyed that I dont want her on Hills w/d and she really isnt over weight. So from what i have gathered he chose that because of her protein levels, and wanting her weight to stay down because of her back injury. She is a min pin, will be 9 in March and weighs 17.4 She has always been very active and musclar. So once i know what is going on, and what type of food she needs, i am going to check royal cainn, wellness, and few others. The urine that leaked last evening was from her vagina area not tummy, I personally do not like how they get that sample, i do not see how that is not high risk. BUT i am not educated in that area. The best thing will probably be for me to speak to a nutrition vet once i know what is matter. Whatever is going on, i am fairly certain her wellness exam came at time where the lab is just now showing it. All I had previous to that beside subtle physical changes was her uti. IF they say this is cushings......if her labs contine to increase, her ultrasound and actch when performed, if they point to cushings.......do you think i should agree to medicate? or decline until more physical sights show? i guess that would depend on how more changes over the next few days and results. I stress everytime i leave her side, makes it VERY difficult to go to work. (i am a pet sitter) so i come and go alot depending on clients scheduled. I am sooooo grateful I at least know first aide and cpr but ugh when its your own......(you will smile at this, my first aide kit is an adult pack back, normally fanny packs are carried) I tried to carry a smaller one, but it was like changing to smaller handbag, and just had to go back to the larger. I am rambling, to little sleep, stress and worry. I do that.

lulusmom

10-06-2011, 01:42 PM

she seems uncomfortable, slight grunts and moans and sighs which of course breaks my heart. she has not ate this morning other than her pumkin nugget cookie she got this morning after her potty and i collected that urine to make sure it was not bloody to the eye or pink it was not, but very yellow and strong in oder and she had used her piddle pad somewhere between 2 in morning and 8:30 this morning, though she is not one to eat much morning, afternoon. She prefers to eat her serving mid evening, then again later evening.

I reread my earlier post and I haven't seen anything since then that would convince me that your dog has cushing's. None of the things you listed above associated with cushing's. As a matter of fact they are the opposite of what you would see in a cushdog. Dogs with untreated cushing's don't usually groan in pain because high cortisol is self medicating. They also eat like pigs and their pee is usually so dilute that it is odorless and clear. Is your vet pushing you to test for cushing's and if so, why? What symptoms is convincing him that your dog has cushing's.

Cyn719

10-06-2011, 01:49 PM

Glynda is right cause when cush dogs arent being treated they act different - when penny was diagnosed with cushings she drank 10 bowls of water a day - ate and ate - peed alot - lost her coat - had lots of energy - so it is confusing why he said cushings??

Squirt's Mom

10-06-2011, 02:34 PM

Hi Skye,

The answer to your question about whether to treat or not is, no. And don't let anyone talk you into it.

You don't even need to test for Cushing's...unless there are some major things I am missing, your baby just does not present like a cush baby. There are no signs to indicate Cushing's and you do NOT treat without signs - regardless. For now, and for the foreseeable future, you can put Cushing's out of your mind. ;) So breath a deep sigh of relief and forget about Cushing's.

How is she feeling this afternoon? Does she still seem to be in pain?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

10-06-2011, 06:56 PM

I called the vet to see if urine lab was in. It was, but they were at the different clinic so do not have her previous reports to compare...dont know why they just dont have the other office fax them over, sorry to sound impatient. So, doctor is suppose to call me in morning, which i am sure will be closer to noon. Which means i will be heading to pet sit appointment and not able to talk, and will have to call back. ugh. BUT I did find out that her ultrasound is scheduled for Tuesday, and that they are not going to have the lab run her blood again, i guess the doctors comment to tech was it is either in range or it isnt. So I am guessing its the AP since that is one thing called out that has gone from 317 to 481 in 2 1/2 weeks. Normal range is 10-150. They did not mention having the ACTH on tuesday, only the ultrasound.So I am thinking they will of course be checking kidneys, adrenal glands, bones, liver and bladder and of course checking for stones. I would think they would have been told from lab if there was another uti present, and they didnt say to go pick up meds, so i am guessing there wasnt. I appreciate all the tlc you have given me, all the support, knowledge in so many areas and how to be a strong advocate for my precious darling. And without her being a cush baby, and having me go to another forum. Very unconditional here........much like the heart of the canines.

Skye

10-06-2011, 07:02 PM

sorry meant to add this to my post, she seems okay when outside, alert, wanting to catch squirrel, barking at things, etc, but once inside, very much quiet and resting. Sometimes being annoyed at cat she may chase down hall, but then right back to nestle in by me on couch, which my other little girl loves to do as well. I am sure if i tried to push play time with tug or squeaky items she may well love that. But i just feel if she will rest comfortably that might be better till i know what is wrong. hate to use up her strength, but she is getting lots of kisses and snuggles probably why she is sleepy, i am snuggly and kissing her to much and interupting her sleep. she has ate a bit for me which i was delighted.

Cyn719

10-07-2011, 12:01 AM

Skye - we are her for you - we will be praying and waiting for all the results - hang in ther mom - you are doing all you can - the waiting game is the worse - but you are not alone - we are here:)

Skye

10-08-2011, 02:55 AM

TEST RESULTS
Chem Test
ALP 481 range 20-150

ALT 43 Range 10-118
BUN 19 Range 7-25
CRE 0.9 Range 0.3-1.4
GLU 117 Range 60-117
TP 6.7 range 5.4-8.2
QC ok
HEM 2+
LIP 2+
ICT 0
Any feed back or helping to understanding meaning would be awesome

Urainalysis
Color yellow
clarity cloudy
specific gravity 1.021
Gluc, bil, ketone, blood negative
PH 5.5
Protein Negative
WBC None seen
RBC 0-2
EPI Cell Rare (0-1)
Crystals 1+ CA Oxalate (1-2)
Urobilinogen normal
Urine cortisol 9.2
Urine Creatinine 97.5
UCCR 29
<34
(so i am guessing that you put the number of the test result in the equation so 29 is less than 34 29<34 right?)
Hyperadrenocorticism is highly unlikely and investigation of other causes of the dogs clinical signs is recommended

UP/UC
UP 40
UC 97.5
color yellow
UPCR 0.4
so UPC 0.2-0.5 (and she is 0.4) = borderline proteinuric (Bp)
if upc >0.2 (BP or P) investigate for underlying systemic disease including inflammatory, infectious or neoplastic conditions.
They didnt explain any of these to me to any length only said that ultra sound is scheduled for next week, they have a doctor that comes in and sets up that does them
and they changed her food again, to (sigh) Hills perscription u/d soft food. she gets 1 can a day.
any feed back would be great and much appreciated, they (doctors office) said they know i want to do everything i can to ensure i have her as along as possible. And they know I "research" and try and learn as much as I can.
They said her equipment for ultrasound is good, and she is good, and she has great experience.
But I will not get to talk to her much at all as she has a tight schedule since she travels to offices to perform them.
Should I try and find nutritionist in my area? (are they called internal specialist?)
should I seek an specialist who do ultrasounds in their office?
or you think sit tight till after results of ultrasound?
the acth test will not be done at this point. They feel it is not needed. :)
hope to hear from you all soon.
(((hugs)))

labblab

10-08-2011, 10:03 AM

Good morning, Skye.

Here's a couple of quick thoughts from me. I am not an expert with lab results, so hopefully others will also chime in!

First off, based on the UCCR results, it looks as though your dog does not have Cushing's. YAY! So I agree that further Cushing's testing (like the ACTH) seems unnecessary.

Also, this time around, the blood tests related to kidney function were all normal, as was your dog's urine specific gravity and preliminary protein analysis. However, the urine sample was cloudy, it showed evidence of calcium oxalate crystals, and the UPC came out as "borderline proteinuric." I can't tell for sure from your listing whether the presence of the crystals is normal, but I would think that the cloudy urine could be associated wtih urinary tract inflammation/infection which, in turn, could be responsible for the borderline protein result.

The UP:UC is an unreliable indicator of urinary protein loss in the presence of inflammation or infection (i.e., an active urine sediment).

Is your vet doing a urine culture to check for infection? I see that no white blood cells were noted in the urine, but I'm hoping that the vet is still proceeding with a culture in order to check for infection. Also, I don't see any listing for a repeat lipase. I'm surprised if that repeat blood test was not done, since the lipase was abnormally elevated before. I would think your vet would want to again check the status of the lipase just as they did with the ALP (which is even higher than before, as you have noted).

I know next to nothing about crystals and stones, so I will leave it to others who are more knowledgeable to comment on them, and also as to the advisability re: the switch to the prescription Hill's food. All I can say is that the combination of the ingredients of the food sound pretty awful :eek: ("Water, Egg Product, Corn Starch, Chicken Fat, and Pork Liver" are the first listed ingredients).

I do also notice that the blood test was labelled as showing 2+ hemolysis and lipemia. This means that red blood cells were "broken open" in the sample (probably just a result of the way in which the blood was collected), and also there was a significant amount of fat in the sample. Once again, I will defer to others who are more knowledgeable as to whether either of these results would have affected any other test values.

From my own understanding thus far, the bottom line seems to be that Cushing's has been ruled out. But you are still looking for an explanation for the increasing ALP, the previously elevated lipase, and any urinary tract abnormalities. At this point, I do think it makes sense to proceed with the ultrasound. That is a good question as to whether you would be better served by having it done by the traveling ultrasonographer or by asking to have a consultation with an internal medicine specialist ("IMS") who will perform the ultrasound in his/her office. I've got to run right now, but I'll come back later and offer some more thoughts in that regard. Oh, and a veterinary nutritionist is not the same thing as an internal medicine specialist. An IMS is a vet who has completed advanced training in treating more complicated medical problems and disorders of many types.

Marianne

Cyn719

10-08-2011, 11:33 AM

Just checking in to see how things are today??? You are on top of things and doing a great job mom!! Here with love and support always!

Skye

10-08-2011, 02:41 PM

i guess things are going okay today.....she chased a squirrel up a tree, squeaked her toy, and is now laying beside me, or me sitting beside her. just not sure what to think about the results and where this is heading or what it means, so i am not feeling very secure........whatever it is, i do feel it is being noticed at onset, and not far into it. So not sure if this is a start to something that will be devasting, complicated, or treatable. It just rips you apart some hours.........

Harley PoMMom

10-08-2011, 04:48 PM

The cloudy urine, a low PH (acidity), and the presence of crystals is what would concern me. Cloudy urine from a dog could warn of bladder stones or an UTI.

My boy, Bear, has had 2 operations for removal of Oxalate stones. From what I have researched about Oxalate stones, it seems they prefer an acidity urine but Bear almost always has an high PH (alkalinity)...go figure!!!:confused::D

Cyn719

10-08-2011, 04:53 PM

Why cant anything be cut and dry?? I hope you get answers soon - every day is a question?? I understand how you feel - Penny having bad day today - last week she was so so sick then by miracle got better and today sick again!! Praying for your and your little one!!

Skye

10-08-2011, 08:12 PM

ohhh cindy so hope this evening is finding you and penny better. I know this must worry to the point of tears, and breaks your heart. I am sure penny is so comforted by your love and care, amazing isnt it, how they comfort us and they find it with us as well. They find what we cant in ourselves. amazing little furbabies.
My little one is having no problem eating on this soft food....guess that is one positive thing, she gobbles it down it seconds. and wants more. Nice to see that instead of trying all evening to encouirage her to finish her complete serving.
ugh fell asleep this afternoon, past month caught up with me, 3 hour nap....sooooo if you need to chat tonite, i get this feeling i will be up late.

Cyn719

10-08-2011, 09:18 PM

Glad to hear the little one is eating!! That is a good sign for sure !!! I know these furbabies are so full of love day and night - so is your little one a little one?? Mine is a big fur baby but I still call her my little one??:D:D I posted her pic today - hope it worked cause one minute it was there the next is wasnt?? I think I got it back - so how is little one doing since dinner? My was sick all day - by tonite ate like yours did now outside barking at ??? Its a day by day thing with them since they cant tell us what is wrong - so it seems like Cushings is ruled out - thats great!!! Now just have to pinpoint exactly what it is - the experts here will help you sort it out for sure:):)

Skye

10-08-2011, 10:50 PM

Yes my little one is fairly little, min pin, 17 pounds, and yes your little one is a big little one!!! i viewed the pictures and she is just beautiful, just wanna kiss her soft little face. so precious. hope she is feeling stronger. and glad she was feeling better this evening. the pictures of her look great!

Cyn719

10-09-2011, 12:50 AM

oh a mini how cute!!!!! so hope the eating goes well also in the AM - yeah shes my cutie - those pics I think were a couple of years ago - when we knew she had cushings but she wasnt on meds yet - I have to get some new ones - she still looks good - a little grey here and there - lol Well lets see how our fury ones do at breakfast - its like a guessing game for sure - Penny was ok tonight but still not like she has been the past week - but I know you know how that goes - well praying for your little one tonight!! post tomorrow!!

Skye

10-10-2011, 12:10 AM

Something I really dont understand is how can her protein levels be improved, from the previous test, but she be boderline proteinurtic? Am I misunderstanding her lab results, seems issues in results are indicating, uti, stones, type issues, but proteinurtic would be liver kidney type issue and or bone,
they changed her food as i mentioned, and i really want to get her on a better food, she is on Hills u/d (ugh) but until i understand and know what she needs i dont feel i can do any better than hills
advice???
although she LOVES this food, its canned which i agree i feel it is better for her to receive the hydration
seems from u/d and w/d common factor is high omega fatty acids and low protein i would like to get her on wellness or honest kitchen
ultrasound on tuesday, will def be letting you all know how that goes

labblab

10-10-2011, 06:45 AM

Skye, I don't know if you saw my earlier reply to you, but the "borderline proteinuric" result of your dog's UPC may not be accurate, and she may not truly have worrisome protein in her urine at all. If a dog has a urinary tract infection or inflammation from something like stones, that can end up giving a "false positive" reading on the UPC test. Since your dog's urine sample was cloudy, it makes both Lori and me suspicious about active infection or inflammation. Is your vet doing any further testing (like a urine culture) to rule out the possibility of an infection? Perhaps the ultrasound will give you more info about the possibility of stones -- but I am not sure whether an ultrasound can do that, since I have no experience with stones.

Marianne

Skye

10-11-2011, 03:17 PM

Hi
ultrasound showed a extremely large tumor, doubling the size of what they consider large, on her left adrenal gland. Deemed cancer. doctor doing ultrasound shook their head over and over and even put hand to mouth.......my little girl was so brave through her whole ultrasound. The vet tech we always have was with us, and i knew the news broke her heart as well. She will be going to Gulf Coast or A&M. From my understanding people nation wide come to Gulf. Our Vet spoke to me after the other doctor was through with ultra sound and said it is cancer, the big word used by other doctor, putting it simply, is cancer. But said, according to blood work, etc, at least it is not a real active tumor. It is in a very tricky area, surrounded by many many arties, and all sorts of extremely delicate things. sounds incredibly difficult and recovery is high risk....some dont make it through surgery, some dont make it because of complications of recovery, if they make it through, says life span is 3 years or so.
I am not well, I have fallen to my knees and begged God please to not take her from me, and place His healing hand under, over, all the way around and through her. I have never been blessed when praying for animals,
i will check back. will keep you posted on things,
thank you everyone. thank you all so much for caring
i will be looking for a driver to help me travel back and forth while this happens, i know that I can not handle houston traffic and be upset.
I stay pretty much to myself....except online.......so now.......that is not good. I dont even know anyone here.
but this is a huge state, taxi's everywhere, lol it will feel like New York, (i am guessing, never been, but hailing and riding in taxi)

labblab

10-11-2011, 04:48 PM

Oh Skye, I am so surprised and sorry to hear this news. I know you will get expert advice either at Gulf Coast or A & M. So we will be waiting right here alongside you to hear what they recommend. Saying prayers for your little girl, and sending you enormous hugs. We are your family here -- don't you ever forget that. Please give your baby a special healing hug for me, OK?

Marianne

Squirt's Mom

10-11-2011, 05:31 PM

Dear Skye,

What an awful day for you. :( I am so sorry to hear this about your baby girl and to know your heart is hurting so badly, as it naturally would be.

I am sure you will see a board certified surgeon and he will be able to tell you more about the possibilities of surgery and the risk involved for your baby. A BC surgeon will steer you right regardless. ;)

You have every right to fall completely apart, just come undone at the seams. Indulge that need. Then raise your beautiful head, wipe your tears, and hug that precious baby girl telling her you are going to find out all you can and do all you can to help her have the best possible life. You are already giving her the best medicine available - your love and tender care. Nothing any doctor can do can beat that!

I, too, live a rather isolated life - mainly in cyberspace. :D But, in all my many years I have never found more true, more caring, more supportive friends than I have found here at k9c. That includes people I have known for ages - the best folks in the whole world are right here. And we are all holding your hand. Our shoulders are broad and strong, our arms gentle. We will hold you up when you feel you cannot stand on your own. We will laugh with you and cry with you. We are always here for you. You are family and we are a very special family, one that has been blessed by having you and your baby join us. So whoever drives you to the appts, just let them know their vehicle is going to be crowded with a whole host of folks who are going with you. You may hear whispers in your ears, or a calming caress, or the warmth of an arm being laid across your shoulders. Don't panic - that will be your family. You are never alone, never.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

addy

10-11-2011, 07:16 PM

Dear Skye,

I don't post very much to you but I do follow along. As Leslie said, we are here for you to help however we can.The love and care we all send to you and your little girl is two fold.

Hearing the word cancer is terrifying. i cannot begin to imagine how you feel. I do know that you do not have to take the journey alone. We will be there every step of the way.

Hugs and love,
Addy

Cyn719

10-11-2011, 07:33 PM

Skye - That C word is the worse thing you can hear - been there with my golden and with myseld - I am praying for you and your little one each and everynight - I pray they will be able to do something - I no it is hard for you to do this and travel and i am glad you will be getting a driver - I get it for sure - I cant even drive Penny 25 mins to her vet when I know its for a huge problem - like shes having now - I feel for you - I am crying with you and I am here for you - please keep us posted and anytime you need to talk we will all be here for you - LOVE PRAYERS SUPPORT HUGS STRENGTH - Your a great mom and doing all you can xo

Jenny & Judi in MN

10-11-2011, 08:47 PM

I've never posted to you either but I do follow. I'm so sorry and am sending a prayer and some white light that the surgery is successful.

hugs, Judi

frijole

10-11-2011, 08:51 PM

Skye, I join the others in sending warm thoughts and love. My Annie has an adrenal tumor and by the time we figured everything out it was too late as she is too frail for surgery. That said - it is not always active and she is really a lively happy little thing. We have our days and our challenges but she is still with me 1 1/2 yrs later. Sounds like you have great medical staff giving you advice so I'll let them be your advisors as to what to do... but please know that we are all here for you. Sending prayers and strength. Kim

Roxee's Dad

10-11-2011, 10:16 PM

Dear Skye,
Sending you prayers and positive thoughts that your baby girl comes through this and has many more years to come.

Skye

10-13-2011, 02:32 AM

meet with Dr. Heidi Hottinger friday for consult at Gulf Coast. how is someone to know which would be BEST between A&M and Gulf Coast? something has to make one better, my soul is screaming inside. I am so frightened.

labblab

10-13-2011, 07:40 AM

Dear Skye,

I've just looked at Dr. Hottinger's biography, and she has an excellent background, as well as several other surgical colleagues with whom to consult (just click on any name on the list, and the surgeon's history will come up):

http://www.gcvs.com/page1/page38/page38.html

If Gulf Coast is the more convenient location for you, then I think it's a great place to start. However, after meeting with Dr. Hottinger, you can always also request a second opinion from Texas A & M. That would be entirely up to you, and then you can personally choose between the two centers based upon your reaction and the information you gather.

I am betting that your dog will receive excellent care at either facility. But there may be other factors that could make things easier or harder for you as a pet parent. Location is a consideration. And sometimes treatment at veterinary schools can be less expensive than treatment at private specialty centers. It all depends.

But right now, you're all set to go with an important first step. After you meet with Dr. Hottinger, I think you'll have a much better idea as to whether or not you also want to consult with A & M. When is your appointment scheduled? Just like Leslie says, we'll all be right there with you in spirit and in our thoughts. I always think that uncertainty makes things feel the scariest of all. Once you meet with Dr. Hottinger, you'll be better able to put together a plan. And then we can all focus our positive energy on moving forward!

Sending many hugs,
Marianne

frijole

10-13-2011, 08:22 AM

Skye, I agree with Marianne. You are smart - go with your gut. Also know that during trying times you are not alone. We become 'cush angels' and we flutter over your shoulder looking out for you and yours. We are there right now. Sending strength and love, Kim

Squirt's Mom

10-13-2011, 09:22 AM

Hi Skye,

Just take things one baby step at a time. Listen to what your gut is saying. Take deep breaths and try to still your soul. Your baby girl has no idea what is going on in her body, what this visit may mean for her; but she does know that you are not your usual self, that you are upset and stressed, and she will be picking up on that which can raise her stress level. Believe me, I know how terrified you are at the moment and how difficult it is to calm yourself. All the "what ifs" flying around in your head. It's not the goal that is important right now, it is the effort. So do your best to relax a bit and enjoy the day. You have done about all you can for today and have a plan in place for tomorrow. So, do something special with your little girl. ;)

When you go tomorrow, take a recorder, or notepad and pen, or another person to listen with you. When in the midst of a stressful situation, our ears often become plugged so having a back up of the conversation is a big help. Ask Dr. Hottinger everything that comes to mind - no dumb questions are possible. You are walking into a strange country and she is the native who will guide you, so ask, ask, ask. ;)

We are here anytime, sweetie.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

10-13-2011, 10:17 AM

Skye Its hard but you are doing a great job - go easy - you have been getting great advice here - praying for your and your little one - Friday will be a long day but post when you can - sending LOVE HUGS PRAYERS SUPPORT AND STRENGHT XO

Buffaloe

10-13-2011, 01:55 PM

Hi Skye,

I'm sorry you have to deal with an adrenal tumor with your girl. My dog had a huge, mildly malignant adrenal tumor surgically removed from her left adrenal gland in 2006 at the age of 12. It was over 5 cm. in diameter and was deviating the caudal vena cava. Prior to her adrenalectomy she was just hanging on. Her surgery and recovery went great and she lived another 3.5 years with an excellent quality of life.

My surgeon once told me that all he cares about is the size of the tumor and its involvement with area blood vessels. The large tumors are more likely to be malignant but they usually can't tell much about that prior to surgery. If the margins are clean, a malignant tumor can be removed with excellent results.

Dr. Hottinger sounds absolutely top-notch. I know it's tough but try to go into your consultation under control so you can do the best job for your girl. Bring along any results you have from ACTH, LDDS tests, the ultrasound report, etc. that you have. Surgery is the treatment of choice if the tumor is operable but you also have the option of treating the tumor with Trilostane or Lysodren. Please don't give up on your prayers; I'm convinced that the reason I had over three extra, wonderful years with Shiloh is because He just decided to take care of us on this one. Hang in there.

Ken

Skye

10-13-2011, 03:49 PM

CALLING ALL ANGELS
any and all questions you can think of to ask

CALLING ALL ANGELS, COME IN PLEASE

you have a broken winged angel down, she is a fighter, she is fighting to save her baby the best she can, (she is carrying every ounce of love a mothers heart can hold, she also has all lab work papers copied, and ultrasound disc, insurance papers, working on getting hand held recorder, note pad and pen locked and loaded)

any questions at all,
and here is ultra sound quote for larger than what they even consider large left adrenal gland tumor"the left adrenal is enlarged and heerochoic, the caudal pole is rounded and hyperechoic with a focal area of mineralization. There does not appear to be vascular invasion at this time."

Squirt's Mom

10-13-2011, 04:01 PM

There does not appear to be vascular invasion at this time."

Honey, personally, I would take a great deal of solace and encouragement from this statement. :)

Your angels are all around you and your baby today, tonight, tomorrow and always.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

labblab

10-13-2011, 05:47 PM

Oh Skye, I agree with Leslie that it sounds like good news that the tumor does not seem to have invaded any blood vessels yet!!

Great job on getting all set for your appointment. If Ken stops back by, he may have some specific questions that he can suggest to you. But otherwise, I'll bet that Dr. Hottinger will be giving you a lot of useful information.

I'm gettin' my wings all ready for tomorrow!!!! See 'ya then! ;)

Marianne

Harley PoMMom

10-13-2011, 06:17 PM

Your angels are all around you and your baby today, tonight, tomorrow and always.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

What Leslie has said is so true, tons of cush angels are fluttering around you and your sweet girl and surrounding you both with love, strength, and positive energy.

Love and more hugs,
Lori

frijole

10-13-2011, 06:58 PM

The fact it hasn't invaded the vascular area is huge. It means that surgery is perhaps an option.

When you meet with them tomorrow ask them to be honest, ask them about their experience with these type of cases (how many, what happened etc) and ask them "if this were your dog what would you do?" Look them in the eye when you ask the questions and you will know if these are people you want to work with.

Hang in there! Kim

Skye

10-14-2011, 12:03 AM

I have car ready, clothes laid out, a little bag with crunchy food for her, a container with water in fridge that i will bring, some toys that she doesnt know i am bringing....(smiling) she gets so excited to see her toys when she doesnt expect them. I got coupler i use to secure her harness to seat belt and buckle, soft robe and towels on seat. me and her will ride in back seat. while husband drives. We are hoping to leave around 6:30 to hopefully miss some of the texas traffic and houston traffic. i dont trust other drivers especially when i have my darling in car. dont want them any where near me.
i will keep checking back to see if any thoughts are added. Most people we asked in texas kept telling us go to A&M but when we ask why........they would say, its cheaper, broader experience, they went to college there, great customer service.
I tried to get in there but times were not matching up, and I am worried about waiting, the risk......
AND
I dont care how I am treated...i care how she is treated, broad experience....i only need experience that is the BEST to treat her condition, and did not get to attend a university, and Gulf got me right in. AND they will even have aloan agency if needed so payments can be arranged. this doctor is suppose to be one of the best, so i hope this is all the correct decision down to the dot. PERFECT nothing less, it just has to be. it was the google reviews that were unsettling. sigh........i think it will be a late nite for pet mom.

labblab

10-14-2011, 08:13 AM

OK Skye, by now you're probably already on your way in. Sure hope you find a spot in the reception area big enough to hold us all!!! ;)

Sending many hugs and flapping my wings as hard as I can ~
Marianne

frijole

10-14-2011, 08:32 AM

Marianne is right! WE are with you Skye. Hugs, Kim

Squirt's Mom

10-14-2011, 09:18 AM

Mornin' Skye,

I am so glad your hubby is able to go with you and your baby. That is wonderful and such a relief you will have someone with you who cares for you both! Be sure to give him a hug from us. ;)

Our thoughts and prayers go with you, healing white light attends you and your baby. We are with you all the way and here anytime you need to talk about anything.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

10-15-2011, 03:48 AM

i have finally made it to the computer.....its going to be heading into the 3 hour of wee morning. I havent been to sleep yet since yesterday, or i guess that would be actually day before yesterday.
my darling as been vomiting all evening.........i caught her eating grass late afternoon and thought oooohhhhhhnooooooooooooooo might be long nite and sure enough. She ate her supper fine, but her tummy stayed so round and full, and i thought oh goodness she needs to burp but cant. And again i was thinking this isnt going t be alot of fun here in few hours....
Trip into houston was insane. i sat in back seat and hardly ever took my eyes off her. she was amazed at all the cars swishing by weaving about or slamming breaks on. so she stayed fairly wound up the entire way, almost 2 hours
then of course was very vocal to all the other pets she saw in the hospital, and was taken from my arms by strangers, then back in car for ride home though trip home was only 1 1/2 hours, she ate some dry food, but I left water behind, oh i was soooooo frustrated about that and still blame me for her not feeling so well now since she had no water to wash that food down with. then when she did get home of course she drank alot which i am sure was to much to fast (as i lectured my husband on that) very very very very emotional stressful day. Decision is a horribly stressful one and her life depends on the right one, and right doctor. I did like the doctor, and she agreed there is risks, but her risks are lowered because she does not have influencing factors that several others do. she said this is optimal time to do surgery while like this, but yes....the risk....then the risk if left............
its overwhelming because its like do you risk never touching seeing kissing holding sharing everything loving again by doing or not doing or doing later
well post more tomorrow or later today..........going to try and see if i can lay down by her. i feel my chest is locked in a vice...........
and i look at her...........thinking............how is she soooooo amazing. so strong in every way. I sing to her "God gave me you" by blake shelton. I love her.
(((((hugs to all of you))))))) i read your posts,,,,and my eyes just teared with loving tears..........how wonderful you all are.

Skye

10-15-2011, 04:32 AM

well, sleep will not come to me........sobbing..........how is the heart to know.....how can anyone make this decision? You hold in your arms the very extension of the reason your heart beats......every where she is at life is beautiful, how she lives is beautiful, dancing through life.....such courage, appreciation, and now, the one she trusts most in life is making a decision on hers. Do this surgery, there are risk, she could dance better and happier! she may decide to dance away and in another world i will see her again.....when they take her from my arms, the look on her face as she does not understand to be taken to strangers and away from me for days. Dont do the surgery, tumor grows, effects other organs, blood flow, health, slowly, to be faced again with the decision to operate or not, but with less favorable over all health, or again to not to operation, and for it to slowly proceed. How can anyone make this decision???????

labblab

10-15-2011, 07:46 AM

Dear Skye,

I am so sorry that your little girl was ill during the night, but I have my fingers crossed that she is doing better this morning. I am so relieved that you are otherwise safely home, and that you felt good about Dr. Hottinger and had the chance to learn more about your baby's options.

I can only imagine how stressful it is for you right now as you weigh the decision. The only saving grace is that your baby is spared all the worry. Thankfully, our furkids live only in the moment, and have no fear of the future or what the future may hold. What she knows is that you love her dearly, right now today, and every single day that you have the blessing to spend together.

Unfortunately, that leaves all the worry and pain upon your shoulders. I wish we could releave you of that burden, but I know it is a decison that is yours and your husband's to make. As hard as it is to know what to do, I honestly believe that whatever decision you make wil be the "right" one because it will be made out of your love for your baby and your fervent hope to do what is best for her. And whatever you decide, we are here to walk alongside you each step of the way. Do keep us posted, and write anything that comes to your mind, OK?

Sending continuing healing hugs to your little girl, and enormous bear hugs to you and your husband.
Marianne

Cyn719

10-15-2011, 11:58 AM

Skye I am with you - I totally understand - taking Penny to new vet on wed - my vet really lost control of the whole situation - Penny is sick and I know that - I just want to see if another vet can help her - very said and very difficult - many tears and long nites - we pray for the best and we do all we can - and I know that isnt the answer we want - as I pray for Penny I am praying for your baby too!! Hugs thoughts prayers support and strength to you hand your husband - xo

Skye

10-15-2011, 01:43 PM

she was taken in first thing this morning..........she is hospitalized. her glucose level went from orginal 112 to 117 to 286 though they say its not diabetes. The spin test on her pancreas........looked liked butter milk. (when from ultrasound all other things looked "beautiful") I nearly vomited. they say its from to much fat. I about came undone. I replied, the ONLY thing she has had is the (i will leave out some of the words) U/D Hills that YOU put her on even though I HAVE REPEATEDLY insisted is NOT good for her because of the nutritional values. Guess what the reply was.........so were going to put her in I/D. I called Gulf Coast and said, the patient that was declared "ideal" and perfect for the surgery is now in hospital.........so on a Saturday....from Gulf Coast....yep a doctor WILL CALL from me if not the VERY doctor who saw as I quote her words "incredible agile athlete" dog. Now she is hooked up to all sorts of things and in hospital. I came home...will shower, i have my bag packed, and they get me in the lobby all nite. I requested that the doctors at Gulf decide what would be best for her to be fed, and that is hopefully the information I gain. I am so close to saying give me my baby back and head back to Gulf Coast and have them hospitalize her yall anit LISTENING TO WHAT HER BODY IS SAYING OR NEEDING. THEN the doctor said well it might be the cushings.....i tell ya, how i kept on the same side of table and not crawl over i have no idea. I said, there is NO cushings. The specialist even said NO cushings and IF there is cushings after tumor removed its at the earliest earliest stage. THEN she kept saying okay you fed her at 3 and i finally said LOOK, and my husband and tech both go, no it was 6:30ish. I chimed in and said it WAS NOT 3. This was not her normal vet, it was the other one at clinic, and this is the REASON i dont see her. No I do not allow my emotions to go crzy pet parent in front of my child, i focus on my body gestures, breathing and tone with great discipline, but if she is not in ear shot and room, I will express some tone in voice. Now not saying through all this it has been perfect success but i make every effort to keep "fresh loving air" around her at all times. She might wonder why the flood gate of love kiss and gushy hugs and cooeings have been let down though. I am taking puter with me. I will keep all of you around me. I need you now for strength knowledge and sanity.

Cyn719

10-15-2011, 02:58 PM

Skye - right her to give you support!! I know the feeling - cant get a straight thing out of my vet neither!! Thats why I am heading to a specialist on Wed - Sending you strength and tons of support - glad you are taking computer - keep updating when you can!! We are praying for your little girl!!!!!! xoxo

Skye

10-15-2011, 06:26 PM

I am swear to all of you I am NOT a hateful person, i listen and try to understand each persons intent and purpose and what desire outcome striving for. But this is MY GREATEST MOST PRECIOUS darling. So of course my defense and trust are not what the "norm" is. I understand this doctor is doing all she possibly can to help and heal to her very best.......she does not normally see her, she was patient, she spoke kindly, it is my patients that is fix this and fix it now, details are extrememly important that were on same page and understanding. So yes i would say previous comment has a bit of venting in it. and i thank you for listening and understanding and letting me cleanse that out of me. I guess am sooooo use to society in general not caring indepthly about animals, and to me, that is my passion and driving force. So when others care for her........i have difficulty trusting that it is done so with the intent i am praying for. make sense?

frijole

10-15-2011, 07:38 PM

It makes sense Skye. I have been where you are and spent almost a year trying to find answers and firing incompetent vets. All I wanted was someone who would care enough to help me get answers. They all wanted the money but few put any time into actually helping my little girl. You keep fighting the good fight and we are here to support you thru it. Hugs Kim

Cyn719

10-15-2011, 07:51 PM

Skye -

I totally understand I do- at the present time no one can help me with my Penny - I am frustrated but hopefully Wed the IMS will help - but I dont know that and yes it frustrating for sure!!! We are here to speak for our babies - like Kim said keep fighting for what you want for your little one - we are here to support you and here to listen

Skye

10-16-2011, 01:19 AM

do you know if Macroadenomas tumors would have shown in her ultra sound?
I am guessing they would.......I read about ultra sounds, mri's etc.........and i had ultrasound for my baby........now i am thinking........hmmmm, maybe i should have done mri too or instead, tad protective you think? probably so. :)

StarDeb55

10-16-2011, 06:27 AM

Skye, a macroadenoma is in the brain. This is the term that is used when the usual pituitary tumor enlarges above a certain size. I believe that ultrasound was only of the abdomen, so no, this would not have shown up. To see if a macroadenoma is present, you would have to have either a head CT or MRI of the brain.

Are the vets, now, saying that your baby has pancreatitis? Have they done a bloodwork checking a lipase, amylase, & especially a cPLI test?

Debbie

frijole

10-16-2011, 09:41 AM

Skye, Like Deb said the only way to know there is a macro is to do either an MRI of the brain or a catscan. My vets thought my dog had a macro but they did catscan and found nothing. THey then did extensive MRIs and found an adrenal tumor. Do not let them tell you it is a macro if all they did was an ultrasound. Ask to see the images. Just making sure the proper testing was done. Kim

Squirt's Mom

10-16-2011, 11:19 AM

Hi Skye,

When you talked of worrying if those caring for your darling would understand, I fully related. When Squirt had a tumor and part of her spleen removed, I had one consultation with the surgeon just to explain to him who he was operating on. I didn't want him to see just another patient, a dog, a tumor - it was immensely important to me that he see her as my child and treat her as such. So you didn't seem hateful to me at all - simply a mom worried sick about her child and demanding the very best care possible for her.

How are things this morning? Any word from the docs on her condition and progress?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

10-16-2011, 12:01 PM

Hi Skye - thinking of you and your little one this morning - will check in soon again

Skye

10-16-2011, 05:47 PM

She is not eating, in morning she goes back to Gulf Coast to stay at their ER that way an IM is there, and of course nurtitionist, as well as the cancer doctor. I cooked her white rice with boiled chicken, couldnt get her to eat either, i go back here shortly and will try again,
I am just SICK as I feel I did this to her. I am CERTAIN that ME forgetting the water did this. I offered her food on way home and she ate some of it but had no water for about 45 minutes after. So that probably just sat there in her tummy when she had no water since early morning, my whole world and i caused this. She is suffering because of me. I failed her again.
i am trying to find someone who will help get me and her to houston, trying to find a place i can stay within walking distance, found place but OMG hotels are expensive so pretty sure that isnt going to work out. Again I am failing. I dont deserve to ever have an animal. They should never have to suffer at my failings.
Pancreaitis, adrenal tumor cancer, moderate to servere back injury, calcium oxalate crystals, boderline proteinutric is all that i know she is dealing with. I am so ashamed, I promise i will try and check back for her, you all have been so good and saving grace for her. i do not deserve any of the support or care you all offer, but she sure does.

Jenny & Judi in MN

10-16-2011, 06:33 PM

Skye you are being WAY too hard on yourself. You obviously do everything you can for your baby. Sounds to me like she has been a very lucky dog to have you in her life. If she was thirsty, she would have let you know. 45 minutes is not that long.

She just may feel icky with all of her medical conditions and traveling. Hang in there. Judi

Harley PoMMom

10-16-2011, 08:16 PM

Oh dear sweet Skye,

You are being way to hard on yourself, now stop that, ok? You have NOTHING to feel guilty/ashamed about, you hear me!!! You love her so deeply and that is so evident and she is blessed to have you as her mommy.

When my boy, Harley, got finicky I'd offer him baby-food (chicken, turkey, or beef...with no onions) and he would usually gobble it down.

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

Cyn719

10-16-2011, 08:22 PM

Skye - you need to relax - you are a wonderful mom!! your little one is so lucky to have someone who cares so much!!!!!! Like Lori said baby food is a good thing - when my Penny would not eat thats what I gave her and she like it - after the day at the ER the appetite is probably not back yet -

HUGS LOVE SUPPORT from us to you and your little one!!

StarDeb55

10-16-2011, 08:25 PM

Skye, absolutely none of this is your fault. Pets, humans get ill, develop cancer, & we have no real control over it. People who have eaten right, exercised, didn't smoke, still get cancer every day, you just don't know. You do the absolute best that you can to provide for your pup & take good care of them. When a problem develops, you get them the care that they need, ask the vets to explain what is going on, so you can make good decisions, you make those decisions, & hope for the best. When you make a treatment decision, you have, now, placed your trust in the professional care that is being provided, & that is all any of us can do. The pancreatitis was not caused by going without water for 45 minutes, I can assure you of that. Pancreatitis is an inflammatory process, sometimes caused by infection, sometimes not. A contributing factor is a high fat content diet, but not all the time. When you said that the blood serum looked like "buttermilk", that tells me that there was a tremendous amount of fat in the blood stream. Sometimes elevated fat or lipids in the blood is simply genetic, & you can only help control it with diet, & medication. You have done the best that you can with the information you were given. You need to keep going, be strong, cool, calm & collected because you are your baby's only voice & advocate. Try to relax, maybe get a little rest, & thing should look a little better tomorrow.

Debbie

ShannonJ92

10-17-2011, 12:03 AM

It's so easy for us to feel guilty or wonder if we could/should do more or less or what is right or wrong. I know, I've been there. I am there. Having just read your post being so hard on yourself though I just want to offer you some words of encouragement in that you are doing all you can and know how to help her. You absolutely do deserve support and caring just as we all here do, please don't think otherwise. Wishing you the best.

~Shannon

addy

10-17-2011, 08:25 AM

Oh Skye,

Anticipatory grief is clobbering you on the head and the fear is overwhelming you and with everything happening that is not a surprise.
Out of your despair will come the strength you need for your sweet little dog. Cry, scream it out if you have to, away from home, away from her so she is not affected.

And then breathe in and breathe out and rise from the pain and hold your head high with sureness and conviction which will come from your deep love of a dog.

You are worthy and you can do this and you are failing no one.

Love,
addy

Squirt's Mom

10-17-2011, 10:43 AM

Dear, sweet Skye,

Whatever you are doing right now, I want you to stop. Please sit down and just read, listen to what I have to say. Listen to me, not those little voices in your head that are telling you lies. Stop whatever you are doing, put your baby girl down, fold your hands in your lap, and just listen to me.

I am not fussing at you, but I am very worried about you and care about you so listen to what I have to say knowing it comes from that care and concern, from a deep desire to see the very best outcome for you and your baby girl.

Honey, you have got to get a grip now. You are extremely anxious and this is going to affect your darling in adverse ways. I know you do not want to be adding to her stress. Our babies pick up on our emotions and react to them, whether our emotions are positive or negative. Negative energies have negative results - and you are awash in negative energy, honey. I feel it in the words you type so I know your baby girl is being bathed constantly in them.

So, the first and most important thing you can do for her is calm down. Whatever it takes for you to accomplish this, you must do it now. As Addy said, get away from everything for a little bit. Go shopping, to a movie, visit a friend for the afternoon, talk with your priest/pastor/preacher - do something to get away from things for just a little bit. Let your mind and spirit rest and revive. You must do this or you are going to explode, taking your baby with you. If you need to seek professional help from your doctor, do so immediately. You may need medical intervention for a little bit to help you get through the coming weeks. There is no shame in needing help, honey. Ask for it.

Those little voices whispering in your head, telling you that you are at fault for your baby's illness, are lying to you. Lying is their job. With their lies, they eat away at your soul leaving you empty, hopeless, helpless. You must do whatever it takes to shut these little lying voices up before they destroy you.

Your baby girl needs your mind, heart, and soul to be strong for her right now. She needs this more than she needs anything a doctor can do for her. Your precious darling has to have her mom standing strong for her. If you are strong, she will be able to face what is in front of her with her own strength. If you fall apart, she will be affected negatively, losing that strength she has always been able to count on.

You have prayed to your God for help, asking Him to wrap His hands around your baby girl. Lay this burden at His feet and walk away from it. Trust Him to do what is right, what will be best for you and your precious little girl. "Thy will be done." He has told you that He will never give you more than you can bear so put your faith in His promise. Your prayers have been joined by many others on your baby's behalf and there is power in prayer.

Keep talking to us, dump these negative thoughts on us and we will help banish them with the truth. A very simple truth. A truth you have lost sight of but we see very clearly. We will always do our best to help you see it again. What "truth" is this, you ask? That you are a great mom, that you are doing everything possible for your sweet baby girl, that you are not to blame for any of this.

I'm through talking for the moment. What I want you to do now is turn off your computer, get cleaned up and dressed, and leave the house. Go do something fun, something you enjoy. If you simply cannot bring yourself to do this, then make arrangements to talk with your spiritual leader and/or doctor as soon as they can see you. Let them know this is an emergency, that you are in distress and need help now.

Sweetie, I feel your pain, many of us do, and we are here for you to help any way we can.

Thank you for listening. Now take action to make those evil little lying voices go away.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

10-17-2011, 11:34 AM

Skye -

thats why I love this forum - they can help us with our little furry ones and they help us also - Listen to Addy and Leslie please! I have been there I know it is so hard - you need to take care of you to!!!! Read over and over what Leslies - she said it all so beautifully!! You are a great mom - you cant do anymore than you are doing - dont put yourself down - please dont!! Always here for you - always -

Much support and the biggest hugs ever are being sent to you and your little one!!!!!!!

Skye

10-17-2011, 10:05 PM

i got my self together, had to scream yell, sobbing, snotting. I have not been doing this around her........i have done this away from her. Of course some with her......we all have....but not the ugly girl cries. I pray holding her, play her "through a dogs ear"music and i hum or visit with her and such. All positive words
But yeah, this weekend was HORRID.
I have her with me now......doctor said to allow her to go home with me....she does much better with me than when were apart. (did everyone go aweeeee)
but if anything happens i go to ER tonite...and regardless i go back to clinic in morning to have her checked. I am feeding her boiled chicken breast, rice and broth.
here is her latest lab that was taken to day, and I am going to apolize now.....I spilled some pretty intense emotions.....that should have probably not gone out on the net. I had a pretty horrible time when writing that. Guess i hit my melt down but you sure do get stronger after that melt down. Man i let it all out big time. whew.
Okay here ya go...here is the lab.....i am ready to get my game on for my girl....any thing stand out let me here from you.
RBC 6.77 M/UL 5.5-8.5
HCT 48.9% 37-55
HGB 15.0 g/dL 12-18
MCV 72.3 fL 60-77
MCH 22.2 pg 18.5-30
MCHC 30.7 g/dL 30-37.5
RDW 14.9% 14.7-17.9
%RETIC 0.2%
RETIC 14.8 k/uL
WBC 14.87 K/uL 5.5-16.9
%NEU 85.5%
%LYM 5.3%
%MONO 3.8%
%EOS 5.4%
%BASO 0.0%
NEU 12.71 K/uL 2-12
LYM 0.79K/uL 0.5-4.9
MONO 0.56 K/uL 0.3-2
EOS 0.80 K/uL 0.1-1.49
BASO 0.01 K.uL 0-0.1
PLT 342 K/uL 175-500
MPV 8.5 fL
PDW 25.1%
PCT 0.29%

ALB 2.9 2.5-4.4
ALP 632 20-150
ALT 108 10-118
AMY 2609 200-1200
TBIL 0.4 0.1-0.6
BUN 5 7-25
CA++ 8.9 8.6-11.8
PHOS 4.0 2.9-6.6
CRE 0.7 0.3-1.4
GLU 184 60-110
NA+ 140 138-160
K+ 4.1 3.7-5.8
TP 6.3 5.4-8.2
GLOB 3.4 2.3-5.2

QC OK
HEM 0
LIP 1+
ICT 0

you guys rock, love you all, you have no idea how much you've carried me

Cyn719

10-17-2011, 11:41 PM

Skye

First of all no need to apologize!!!!! We are all a family here and thats what we do - we come on to the forum to vent - scream - cry - snot - tell what we feel - tell happy stories and sad stories - we let it all out!!!!! We all have our issues with our babies - I was feaking out one night in June and I have no idea what I even said!!! But no one judged me at all - they were here for me and gave me their honest advice - no one is judging you neither - they are all here to give their advice - they are her to give you love - support - strength - and to listen - so when you are posting its ok to say what you are feeling -- you said nothing wrong - all you were saying was how much your little one means to you and these doctors just dont always seem to care - and we get that - you are a great mom - just look what you are doing for the little one - I am glad you are feeling better about yourself tonight ---- as far as the bloodwork - the experts will be along to read it for you soon - I am glad you have your little one home with you tonight - I send you and your little one LOVE HUGS PRAYERS SUPPORT and STRENGTH - keep posting and we are right her for you xo

Squirt's Mom

10-18-2011, 10:01 AM

Mornin' Skye, :)

I am so glad your sweet little girl is home. :D I know how much better you both feel with her where she belongs.

Ya know, sometimes there is nothing quite as cathartic as a good screaming, snotting fit. ;) I've have many myself and will more than likely have many more before I leave this old Earth. I'm glad you are feeling better now and ready to step up for your baby. There is no doubt in my mind you can handle anything that comes your way. Always remember, you are not alone, honey. And never apologize for speaking what is in your heart.

The chicken, rice and broth will be good for her for a bit; this is easy to digest. To help keep the fat content low, remove the skin before cooking and use only the white meat. Cook the rice over well until it is basically a paste. This makes it easier to digest. I prefer brown rice to white for many reasons. You can google white vs brown and see that brown rice has much more to offer. ;) Use home made broth, not canned, because the canned often contains onions and other spices that can cause some real problems for dogs. Boiling the chicken will provide you with plenty of broth. Some other things you might look into if she gets bored is a little sweet potato and a couple of fresh/frozen green beans. Always avoid canned or processed foods. Adding a little bit of a good, high quality kibble will help provide some vitamins and minerals. Or you can add some NutriCal, etc. for the same purpose. If you want to home cook for your baby, I strongly suggest you work with a canine nutritionist or nutritional consultant. They will be able to take all her info and design a diet especially for her. My Squirt has been eating home cooked for about 3 years now. ;)

As for the blood work, I can't offer much help there but I am sure others will along soon to give you some insight there.

Keep your chin up! And know we are always here for you.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

lulusmom

10-18-2011, 01:33 PM

RBC 6.77 M/UL 5.5-8.5
HCT 48.9% 37-55
HGB 15.0 g/dL 12-18
MCV 72.3 fL 60-77
MCH 22.2 pg 18.5-30
MCHC 30.7 g/dL 30-37.5
RDW 14.9% 14.7-17.9
%RETIC 0.2%
RETIC 14.8 k/uL
WBC 14.87 K/uL 5.5-16.9
%NEU 85.5%
%LYM 5.3%
%MONO 3.8%
%EOS 5.4%
%BASO 0.0%
NEU 12.71 K/uL 2-12
LYM 0.79K/uL 0.5-4.9
MONO 0.56 K/uL 0.3-2
EOS 0.80 K/uL 0.1-1.49
BASO 0.01 K.uL 0-0.1
PLT 342 K/uL 175-500
MPV 8.5 fL
PDW 25.1%
PCT 0.29%

ALB 2.9 2.5-4.4
ALP 632 20-150
ALT 108 10-118
AMY 2609 200-1200
TBIL 0.4 0.1-0.6
BUN 5 7-25
CA++ 8.9 8.6-11.8
PHOS 4.0 2.9-6.6
CRE 0.7 0.3-1.4
GLU 184 60-110
NA+ 140 138-160
K+ 4.1 3.7-5.8
TP 6.3 5.4-8.2
GLOB 3.4 2.3-5.2

QC OK
HEM 0
LIP 1+
ICT 0

Hello Skye,

That bloodwork looks real good, considering you are dealing with an adrenal. Apparently, it is a nonfunctional tumor. As I recall, the Lipase was elevated on the last bloodwork but Amylase was normal. Now the Amylase is elevated and I'd don't see that you posted the Lipase results. Can you recheck your paperwork? So it looks like the only two abnormalities is Amylase and ALKP, which points to pancreatitis. You may have answered this already but did the ER vet do a CPLI test?

Skye

10-18-2011, 03:00 PM

hi no i dont think i did answer that, i have all her er paper work i will recheck to see. All her issues work against each other.
calicum oxalate crystals
back injury
Protein in urine
pacreaitis
adrenal gland issue
so what i am trying to do is get a balanced PH at i think 6.8
high omega fatty acids
low fat
low protein though renal function is okay its the urine showing protein.
and glucosimaine for her back or supplement to help
I checked at Gulf Coast of Nurtritionist, and they dont have one all they have is Internal med. doctor that would look at that.
Omg her blood work looks amazing compared to what it was saturday
no I dont see the Lipase (AST)
they plan on seeing her in a week.....she is not stable enough at time to make trip t Gulf Coast they want her home resting and calm
Areas that i am concerned with are all the ones actually not in range. I understand some of them is because of her tumor and this latest incident. But i am not convinced that there isnt something else happening. I have no back up what so ever, but her liver concerns me and i am not sure why.
doctor took her off the rice and chicken i was cooking and wants her on this hills crap again that i am positive i will not keep her on. I got 3 cans. so i got that much time to get my choice for time being lined out and show/justify why i feel whatever it is i chose is better. Everything with Hills back fires. he has put her on Jd, Wd, Ud, and now Id
enough already.
she is responding to the canned food better than the chicken and rice and broth but i to many bad experiences with Hills. I asked Gulf Coast again about Nurtitionist, they said IM just hired one and I said i wanted her diet elevauluted. she said her specialist and such will talk about it and see, I said this has to be done.....this food is NOT good for her. So i am hoping and praying this all gets sorted out.

Skye

10-18-2011, 03:03 PM

i dont see where CPLI was done, but saturday the spin down which is also the same test (?) was done and omg it was horrid

lulusmom

10-18-2011, 05:26 PM

Skye, please see my comments in blue below:

hi no i dont think i did answer that, i have all her er paper work i will recheck to see. All her issues work against each other.
calicum oxalate crystals

Urinary crystals are found in normal dog's urine so this is not necessarily an indication that there is a dietary or metabolic problem. Since the UC:CR was normal, you can pretty much rule out high cortisol levels which cause excessive excretion of calcium in the urine.

back injury

One of your prior posts said that there was a prior back injury but that joint issues were included. Are you seeing any symptoms that might be attributed to joints or back?

Protein in urine

As I recall, the protein was only +1. It wasn't too long ago that the 1 was considered to be normal.

pacreaitis

My mom's dog was diagnosed with pancreatitis and spent two days in the ER on fluids. Aside from a mildly elevated ALT, the only other abnormality she had was her Lipase which was over 5000. A snap CPLI confirmed pancreatitis. With your dog's inappetance and elevated Amylase, I would definitely as the vet if pancreatitis has been ruled out. The liver enzyme Alkaline Phophatase (ALKP) can come from the gut so pancreatitis could explain the high ALKP you are seeing.

adrenal gland issue

so what i am trying to do is get a balanced PH at i think 6.8

Achieving perfect PH is not an easy thing to do. It's a moving target throughout the day. I have two dogs who have had oxalate stone surgeries and their vet put them on potassium citrate, which helps alkalinize the urine. You may want to talk to your vet about putting your dog on it as well.

high omega fatty acids

low fat
low protein though renal function is okay its the urine showing protein.

With the elevated Amylase on the blood test and elevated Lipase on the prior one, I would think a dog food lower in fat than ID would be better. I am disgusted by the use of by products in any food so it's a given that I think Hills sucks for cheaping out. Basically, we pet owners pay a bloody fortune for this so called prescription food so the least Hills could do is to use human grade ingredients. Having said that, I will also say that my dog did well every time we had to put him on ID after a severe colitis episode.

Two foods better than ID that are lower in protein and fats are California Natural Lamb Meal and Rice and Eagle Pack Adult Reduced Fat Forumula. Eagle Pack has corn as the number one ingredient too but it is lower in calcium than ID which is better for oxalate crystals.

and glucosimaine for her back or supplement to help
I checked at Gulf Coast of Nurtritionist, and they dont have one all they have is Internal med. doctor that would look at that.
Omg her blood work looks amazing compared to what it was saturday
no I dont see the Lipase (AST)
they plan on seeing her in a week.....she is not stable enough at time to make trip t Gulf Coast they want her home resting and calm
Areas that i am concerned with are all the ones actually not in range. I understand some of them is because of her tumor and this latest incident. But i am not convinced that there isnt something else happening. I have no back up what so ever, but her liver concerns me and i am not sure why.

As I mentioned above, pancreatitis can impact the liver and it's usually the ALKP that is elevated.

doctor took her off the rice and chicken i was cooking and wants her on this hills crap again that i am positive i will not keep her on. I got 3 cans. so i got that much time to get my choice for time being lined out and show/justify why i feel whatever it is i chose is better. Everything with Hills back fires. he has put her on Jd, Wd, Ud, and now Id
enough already.
she is responding to the canned food better than the chicken and rice and broth but i to many bad experiences with Hills.

As I mentioned previously, my dog did very well on Hills prescription diet. I hate the ingredients but it worked for him in the short term. What bad experiences have you had with Hills?

I asked Gulf Coast again about Nurtitionist, they said IM just hired one and I said i wanted her diet elevauluted. she said her specialist and such will talk about it and see, I said this has to be done.....this food is NOT good for her. So i am hoping and praying this all gets sorted out.

I have no doubt you will get everything sorted out. It may not be this year, but you'll get it sorted out. :D

addy

10-18-2011, 07:17 PM

Hi Skye,

just a quick question, if you have to do the hills prescription food, Zoe could only eat the canned id, could not do the ID kibble, canned has following ingredients and is highly digestible, not the greatest food, but might work for short term, at least corn is not first::rolleyes:

Water, Turkey, Egg Product, Pork Liver, Rice, Whole Grain Corn, Rice Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Caramel Color, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, L-Threonine, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Tryptophan, Taurine, Iron Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Cysteine, Magnesium Oxide, Beta-Carotene, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.

hang in there,
addy

Skye

10-24-2011, 12:48 AM

Hello dear family, so grateful to have gone since Monday to now with my girl at home and no vomiting. she eats her canned i/d and loves it. I offer her 3 meals that has worked up to the serving she is to have. She is still on her two antibotics and pepcid. have about 3 days left.
have been conversing with the surgerons Tech. they are proably sick of me by now, but you know, this is a HUGE thing to have her go through, and wanting to be certain i do the very best for her, with understanding is important. What parent do the same.
Since we have to ensure she is stable for at least 3 weeks, the week before her surgery I am going to request a CBC and urinalyst. And while she is prepped for surgery, ask that they perform ultrasound again. would be month and half since she had one.....my concern is her uti no sypmtoms currently, but worried about a stone since she has cal. oxlate crystals. when you dont need more to happen it does. and i am worried about a stone appearing and it not passing, after this surgery she isnt going to be able to have another surgery very soon. and wanting to have her pancreaites, liver looked at as well as confirming tumor has not changed since first ultrasound. Hoping to have doctors and surgerons be fully prepared and versed with her. AND one thing i have not asked but want to know....but not sure how to word it......so with this surgery they remove the adrenal gland entirely correct? and she is placed on steroid, does anyone know what this steroid is? they place her on this and slowly wean her from it so her right one can build up. Any tests i need to request pertaining to any of this? seems there are certain hormones they should test? or risks side effects from steroids?
here are some of my notes, would love to hear from you.
Confirmed issues: Pancreatitus
Left Adrenal Gland tumor
Calcium Oxalate Crystals (monohydrates i think????)
Moderate to severe back injury with fusion
Although some Calcium Oxalate Crystals are common, it is also common for a stone to form. She has had UTI's. i realize the ph is difficult to control in diet, my concern is, going through this surgery, then to discover stone needing surgically removed. I would not want to put her through another surgery so quickly. (i need to have her teeth cleaned and that is waiting as well, dont want additonal bacteria in system from it)
With her back injury, if that could be known so when handling her, etc, as to not irrate it further.
From her last Chem pan, I am still concerned about Liver function and health. I realize the adrenal gland tumor and pancreaititis may be active part in elevations....and with all the food changes and some with low protein may be resulting in her low BUN level. This is also where i figured ultra sound would be warranted. (?) to confirm health of liver.
Granted.....low BUN might be from food the dr. had her on.
May 2011 J/D back issues
Sept 2011 W/D protein/kidney/cushings questions after results of labs
Oct 2011 U/D increasing lipase/AMY
Oct 2011 I/D pancreaitis
I personally am not a fan of the nutritional values with Hills. And most definitively would LOVE to speak with Dr for her. Please share any helpful information with that doctor. I am guessing she is to remain on I/D through out her recovery and as she is weaned from steroid as the right and left adrenals balance out then Dr. can elevate
Her BUN has gone from high to low (low protein or liver)
ALT is now elevated (liver)
Lipase/AMY continues to increase, AMY skyrocketed last test the Monday she returned home there was not a AST reading (lipase), i realize this may be from pancreatitis but liver could be involved/damaged with this .
ALP high adrenal gland? liver?
ALT Boderline Liver?

Skye

10-27-2011, 09:42 PM

I am thinking.......that the risks of putting her through a surgery maybe would not be the best for her.........i dont know. NOT thinking of myself, but completely and fully for her. 35% dont make it through surgery, over half take very ill or worse in recovery, then 1-36 months average for life span after. It seems......statiscally speaking............from what i can find...........she is destined to be in my arms only a short while. Reality is very difficult. sent many more questions in to ask doctor doing surgery. will keep everyone up to date. any in put would be great.

Cyn719

10-27-2011, 10:09 PM

Skye - you and the little one are in my thoughts and prayers - I hate making decisions like this - I understand what you are going through - I have to make smaller decisions and I am having problems with that - I hope you know I am sending you LOTS OF LOVE HUGS STRENGTH SUPPORT GOOD THOUGHTS PRAYERS - I know you will make the right decision - just keep asking questions over and over - dont worry about what they think at the vets this is your little one - the others should be by to give there opinion soon xo

Skye

10-27-2011, 10:38 PM

You have been heavy in my heart!!!!!! you and Penny doing okay? it is good to hear from you........this is one heck of a journey.........step outside to get rid of some tears....lol, now back in snuggled up on couch with my darling one, of course intermitten play and tons of kisses. No need for her to be worried bout me...this is all for her. I am amazed how each and every day she springs about in awee with all her findings and different things to smell, and oh to run!!!!! i love to watch her run as fast as she can through yard, it is like she experiences everything for the first time over and over and has been that way since i can even remember. Then i read how it can be if removal is not done....that is not fair either.............so, i spoke to husband, me sobbing of course, him near tears, and i asked, what if this was me and you had this decision to make.....the depth of love is in the heart not for others to place, and she is my child.....i know no other, and my heart loves as dear as a mothers. He was quiet for a long time.......he said, i would probably remove it....of all things for God to place on my plate, one of the softes part of my soul....animals......even more so....her. To find this rare tumor, and how it was even found....just uncanny. then to be given this choice.............God, knowing good and well since when did i ever make good choices in this life...........and this surgery, is very difficult to find research on............just not much known about it.

ShannonJ92

10-27-2011, 10:51 PM

If only there was a way for us to just know - what to do, what not to do. I feel for you in having to make such a big decision, we are all in those shoes at some point or other just all having different circumstances. I don't know that there is a right or wrong decision. We can only do what we think is best, or what our best guess is for the best outcome. I really do understand. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers and I will check for updates.

~Shannon

Cyn719

10-28-2011, 01:37 PM

Skye - I just read your post in tears - I know how you feel about your little one for sure - These are hard decisions to make - I didnt have time to go back but how old is the little one? its a mini right and the tumor in in adrenal gland ? Is this the same procedure that Roo just had on Java? Have you read her post? Not sure if its the same thing but Java just came home yesterday from having the tumor removed - I am praying for you - your husband and little one - its hard but you are a fantactic mom and she will make the right decision - I have to go get Penny some food but I will be back to check in XO

Roo

10-28-2011, 11:01 PM

I understand where you are in having to make the decision, it's very hard. There is no way of knowing that you have made the right decision until it is done, but even if it does not go as you expected, no one can fault you for trying to do what is in the best interest of your pet. In the beginning my husband and I were leaning towards not having the adrenalectomy done; we figured Java is 13 years old, and from what we had read, the procedure is risky. Conversely, not treating the Cushing's Disease was also risky, and because it was an adrenal tumor, treating it with drugs was not a good option. If you look at the test results I posted for Java, they were terrible...her liver enzymes and alkaline phosphates were off the charts. We went to our consultation with Dr. Bookbinder fully expecting that we would listen to him but that we would probably not change our minds. When asked what he would do with his own dog, if his dog were in Java's condition, he assured us he would want to go in and see what was there, to see if it was something that could give her a few more years. We told him that we were interested in what would be best for our dog, not for ourselves; we could tell that he had the same outlook. The last thing we wanted to do was try to extend her life just because we weren't ready to let her go. He did not feel that Java was a lost cause, but more importantly, he let us know that if he thought the tumor removal would endanger her life, he would not remove it and would sew her back up. He had done just that, the week before, with his neice's Boxer. He said that was heartbreaking that he knew he could not do anything about it; originally the dog was brought in for a different problem and he discovered the tumor. He had made her the same promise, and because it was too dangerous, he did not remove the tumor. That went a long way in earning our confidence. You have to be comfortable with the people that you are trusting your pet with, if we had not had our minds put somewhat at ease, we would not have gone ahead with the surgery. I was convinced that we had a doctor that would act in our dog's best interest. He said flat out, that there is no "right" decision. He acknowledged the leap of faith it takes to go through with the surgery, because there are so many unknowns. He could not promise us a positive outcome, but it was the only option that offered a possible solution. The other thing in my case that made a difference was Ken's success story. His dog's issues were very similar, and the fact that she had a successful outcome helped to convince me. Had I not gone on this board, I would only know what the statistics say.

I'm not going to pretend that I wasn't a mess the day of the surgery, which was Tuesday. I won't say that I wasn't crying when I was typing, because sometimes I was. I knew what the risks were, and was hoping I would not get a phone call confirming what I feared; I always tend to think the worst. But the results were the best that I could have hoped for, and Java is home recovering.

I don't know what will end up being the best decision for you, but it's obvious how much you love your baby. She knows it too. Whatever you decide, it's because you love her more than anything. I don't know if any of this helps, but I definitely feel for you, and hope you continue to seek the support you need on this board. There's lots of collective knowledge here, and lot of love and support too. I know I would have been a lot crazier if I had not had this forum to go on during the scariest times. I imagine I will be here through the entire recovery process, I know that she has a way to go yet.

Skye

10-30-2011, 04:46 AM

Skye

10-30-2011, 01:32 PM

I have been emailing Gulf Coast off and on since the consult mid Oct. And since her horrid "pancreatic" attack that landed her in ICU. I ask any questions that come to mind, and I had lots during consult, and then more that followed as time passes, thankfully, they are remaining very patient and kind and getting back to me which has helped me so much since researching this is soooo difficult. Information can be dated, patients vary greatly in which adrenal gland, exsisting issues and severity of, age, etc....which all play a huge factor in this surgery. The surgery alone is horrific to deal with. Her surgery date is scheduled for November 28th. We will travel into Houston (60 miles away BUT if your familiar with houston that can be a 2 hour drive) on the day before, that way she gets settled and relaxed from car ride and new environment. Then to Gulf Coast less than 1 mile away in the morning for surgery. She will be in ICU maybe till Wednsday? Thursday? then we will come back to hotel which is where we will be staying, I just cant be 2 hours away during all this, thankfully my husband understands this (OR perhaps doesnt want to deal with me being 2 hours away from her, lol) We will bring her back to hotel after released from surgery, we even planning on taking bed off frame and lying chairs down so no risk of jumping....she is a JUMPER and a pogo stick jumper, min pins jump LOTS and run run run. SO this smaller room and minimal jumping tempations will help as she recovers, and our house also has cats which she tend to enjoy chasing down the hall way, so that tempation will be removed also. Would section house off but it is under 1000 sq ft as it is. Thankfully we have found hotel that gave us even more of a discount and has breakfast and early evening hotdogs, chicken strips fries etc each evening AND popcorn 3-10 each day. plus you get fridge and micro. in room so will bring snacks and will be able to keep her food good as well. Okay so back to surgery, (just wanting to give all details of plan from start to finish) She is a Min Pin, 8 years 5 months, Adrenal Gland tumor on Left adrenal. Does not appear to be vascular and not in Vena Cava, it is small, approx 1 cm, her blood pressure is good, she is athelic and agile, for min pin she is considered young, avg life span is 14-16, has had one "pancreatic" attack couple weeks ago that placed her in ICU. They feel this is ideal candidate for surgery, do not feel that she has cushings.........she might, labs are not indicating strong signs and no strong clinical signs, so they say no cushings...IF cushings is present likely NOT from this tumor, IF cushings, its at very very early onset. Surgeron has done 100-150 adrenal surgeries over 15 years. approx 8 a year if you take average, approx 1 a month and success rate of 3-5% which means possibly less than 1 average a year doesnt surrive. (sorry i had to break it all down to make myself feel better about this decision) and they feel yes of course there are risks, yes this is major, but......longevity for a normal avg life span will have greater chances if removed. If not removed....it could grow, and spread and be invasive, and then surgery not be option, this is a horribly difficuilt journey we are embarking on, horribly difficult. But i am trying to make certain each and every step during and after for recovery have everything i can possibly do to ensure complete perfect recovery. Only so much i can do...the rest is up to her and God. So I will do all i can, no matter how silly some of it seems.......doing all i can to ensure complete success. Her CBC, Cysto and chemical will be done on November 18th, allowing time for her to recover from that stress and having results current for doctor. Prior to surgery doctor will do ultrasound so everything is current. And i am noting behavior and physical things between now and then that i see to provide all the information i can. Also informing on what freaks her out like paws touched....(when they put IV in so they can prepare on approach, etc) anything to help reduce stress. Told my husband i hope I dont ask to see each team member helping with surgery to ensure no one has a cold, on cold meds, or has had to much coffee and got caffine shakes etc......he is like omg......LOL, so were getting a smiles in as we go. Please give me feedback and oh goodness keep those prayers and positive thoughts rolling in. today she is busy at jumping at flys that are annoying. lol love her attitude! when were together i stress to my husband ONLY positive happy loving thoughts.....take the stress energy outside.....this is our time to give nothing but warmth love positive environment to her.

Cyn719

10-30-2011, 02:50 PM

Skye -

prayers and prayer and payers everynite till your little one is through the whole procedure!!!! Your are right on top of everything and you are asking all the right questions - we will be right there with you through the whole thing - on the long ride - in the waiting room and sleeping on the hotel floor!!! Doing a great job mom!!!:) HUGS LOVE PRAYERS HAPPY THOUGHTS AND LOTS OF STRENGTH BEING SENT TO YOU!!!!

Squirt's Mom

10-31-2011, 11:26 AM

Hi Skye,

Because you love your baby girl so very much, you cannot make the wrong decision for her. It is not possible. Your love will guide you and lead you to the right path. Regardless of the outcome, your decision is the right one - love will allow no less. ;)

I don't remember my puberty but MAN do I remember my daughter's! :eek: So, I can relate to your feelings! LOL

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 01:11 PM

Hi Skye - always checking in - how are things going?? Thinking of you and your little fur baby - prayers love and big hugssssss

Skye

11-03-2011, 09:28 PM

we are trying to remain very positive and strong............she has had a couple of rough spells off and on........but nothing horrible like landing in ICU. she has had couple tummy aches, couple pee accidents, and sorta walked strange for few seconds, but all on different times so hard to say.....get lab redone friday before Thanksgiving. How you doing? things going alright? I have a facebook page set up for my little girl. been posting little notes to her and such. lol

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 10:30 PM

glad your little baby is doing ok - Pennys results will be back tomorrow - not sure whats next after this - one step at a time - I know they want her off trilo and on Lysodren - but I wont go there till I get the results -- I am not on FB but when my son is home on the weekend I check things out - Is FB under the pups name - love hugs and prayers to you and your little one:)

Roo

11-05-2011, 03:27 PM

If i could wrap my arms around each of you and give you a hug so you could feel my heart swell with the appreciation of all your care and support. I did get to hear back from the doctor, and I will post that tomorrow as its horribly late, i am of course on the roller coaster, up and down up and down, strong then weak, ugh.....its worst than puberty isnt it. (hoping to bring a smile to one persons face at least...lol, goodness knows we need those right!) We even made her a little face book page. lol. will be posting soon. Cindy how is Penny, and Roo how is java? i was told home recovery is bout 2 weeks is that what you were told? was Javas a right or left? I need to go read your posts so i can see her labs, if you check back to the 18th 19th 20th???? i have her most recent posted. wondering what it will be like here in few weeks when she goes back in. I am hoping that all these prayers and positive thoughts have made it vanish. How is Kens baby doing? was his right or left? i need to read his posts as well. Will talk to you all in bit. love and hugs

I just posted about Java's progress today, she is doing extremely well. She had a tumor on her left adrenal gland. I think the two weeks recovery is probably a good estimate, Java is almost at week 2 and I am at the point where I feel comfortable enough that I can go to work, come home at lunch time to check on her, then go back to work for the rest of the afternoon. I stayed home with her the first week, and worked from home, because she needed help getting around and I didn't want her to inadvertantly hurt herself. Another thing that was going on the first week is she was having accidents in the house (urine) which was completely unlike her. I think that post surgery she was having a little trouble sensing when she had to go. That only lasted 3 or 4 days, then she was able to tell and would ask to go out. I'm sure each dog has it's own individual rate of progress, but I'm happy to report at least with my experience, she seems to be healing faster than I expected. She gets her stitches out on Nov 17, her belly is looking good, no more redness and bruising in that area.

Roo

11-05-2011, 03:32 PM

Oh, and yes, definitely do what you can to keep her off the furniture. Java is still trying to figure out how to jump onto her favorite couch. I had to turn it around so it faces the wall, I think she is wondering when the nice comfy cushions went. All she can see is the back of the couch, she will stand and stare at it, then go lay down on the actual dog bed that we bought her but she would never use before.

Skye

11-06-2011, 04:01 AM

Hello! store here in town had a nice fabric sale on fleece, so i made my little girl a HUGE fleece tie knot blanket. SHE LOVES IT and I must say i LOVE how it turned out. I will have to try and post some pictures of it.
She is suppose to have her surgery in 22 days........I still excuse myself from house to step outside and have good cries and snot and sob all over, then come back in. Neighbors must thing I have some real issues....lol. BUT i am not in a corner in a dark room rocking back and forth flipping the lamp on and off. Trying to find humor in myself and hoping to spread a smile to another pet parent who might need that. Were actually planning on staying in hotel for almost a week after she is out of ICU, were taking the bed off the frame and placing on floor, and putting any chairs on table or ask they be removed or we will put facing wall.Dr had suggested anything with removable cushions to take cushions off and put on floor that way everything is lower. But will still have 2nd week of recovery to go through at home, and using much caution. she is a min pin, and it is crzy how they pogo jump, leap, bound, sail, run, etc. so i am thinking of keeping a leash on her nearly always, all cushions off furniture, and all doors closed to rooms. So grateful to hear Java is doing so great. Does Java have any other issues besides the turmor? did they place her on steroid until her other gland can work on its own? did she do okay with her meds after surgery? Awesome to hear from you.

Cyn719

11-08-2011, 10:45 PM

Hi Skye how are things going -- love to see some of those pics!!!! I know its hard with the surgery getting closer - you can vent anytime you want to!!!!!!!! I would be doing the same for sure!!!!!! love hugs and prayers ...........alwaysxoxo

Skye

11-09-2011, 12:11 AM

Hello my friend!!!!! goodness, it is such a whirl of emotions, just unbelievable. I dont believe i have cried this much and this hard since the loss of my mother in 1997. I wont be able to forgive myself if anything negative should happen to her because of this surgery, as I chose for her to have it. Nor would I be able to forgive myself if i didnt have it done knowing the certainity to come of that. i have been watching for anything and everything to make note of to send in to let surgerons know I have seen or noticed. The honking sound...dont know if that is reverse sneeze? then today on her pooh.....noticed it had "skin" on it, not mucaus really, just a thin sack like over the pooh. Not meaning to sicken anyone. But pooh is gold as they say at some vets. lol. Maybe that is just part of being on soft food. i dont know. i will message you my personal email, and i have yahoo messenger, and will also text cell but not sure we can text or not? so we can stay better in touch
She is eating good, resting when inside and chasing squirrels outside. she is so beautiful. she amazes me continously.

Skye

11-13-2011, 01:48 AM

Well, her surgery date is getting closer and closer, just recently though, she has had four urine accidents on carpet. Full bladder accidents.....i dont know if something more is going on....or if i have missed her requests to go out. She eats and drinks great, chases squirrels, rests good while inside, i have not encouraged play inside, as she runs when in yard. she has her blood work friday for her pre surgery work up and cysto. do you think this has anything to do with the turmor? so hoping there is not another issue at hand or building. I am hoping they remove this successfully, she recovers perfectly, and there are not any other issues. I know she has pancreaitis, but hoping it stays calmed down so far since her bout in October it has. any thoughts?

Squirt's Mom

11-13-2011, 08:07 AM

Hi Skye,

Yes, the accidents could certainly be due to the tumor. This is a fairly common sign in cush pups, both those with pituitary tumors and those with adrenal tumors. Other types of adrenal tumors can also cause loss of house-training from time to time as well. Just keep an eye on her and if the urine develops a dark color or strong odor, call your vet - those are indications of a UTI.

Hanging with you still!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

11-13-2011, 12:09 PM

you all better still be with me fluttering about!!!!!!!!!! 2 weeks and a day till her surgery.................dont want to walk this journey without any of you!!!!!!

Squirt's Mom

11-13-2011, 12:34 PM

That, honey, is one thing you don't have to worry about! ;)

Cyn719

11-13-2011, 12:53 PM

Skye - you know we will all be there with you - every minute - every second --- no one on this forum goes through anything alone!!!!!!!:) Saying prayers every night!!!!! HUGSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

Harley PoMMom

11-13-2011, 10:39 PM

you all better still be with me fluttering about!!!!!!!!!! 2 weeks and a day till her surgery.................dont want to walk this journey without any of you!!!!!!

We are definitely here for you both, always. ;):)

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

Altira

11-14-2011, 07:56 PM

Hello Stormee Skye... I'm here too. So glad you contacted me!

Skye

11-15-2011, 01:15 AM

here is the letter I sent in to Gulf Coast.....man i bet they get tried of hearing from me....lol.........actually its been quite a while since i have emailed them asking any questions, but this is more of questions, requests, concerns, phone numbers to keep handy type email. Would love feed back if anyone has time, or can help me know any and everything to be expecting or seeing as this happens and recovers.
Questions
on previous email, question "Approximately half have some type of post operative problem, explaining the risks that involved and issues" sorry i know that is not in good question form. I have talked with others who have had their pet child go through this, blood clots, meds and dosage of med have made post op a trying experience(getting through the surgery is the first part, this is some serious stuff all the way through!).....wondering how i can avoid this? Will Dr. Hottinger be treating Shysie or will she be then treated by her orginal doctor? I would prefer a specialist (as Dr. Hottinger) as I feel perhaps the experience level would be more appropriate, or would Dr. Lippke work with Dr. Hottinger and follow what she requests and give reports back to her?

*How can i ensure she is healthy otherwise (and nothing else is accompanying adrenal issue)?
*will her pancreas be manipulated during surgery?
*will staying close to Gulf Coast till Dec 8th be long enough? I can stay longer if it would be better.

******I had asked Ultrasound be done prior to her surgery to ensure Dr. Hottinger has the BEST up to date of what is going on inside prior to actual surgery. Would Dr. Hottinger prefer CT scan or MRI? (I am curious about her pituitary gland)

PREVIOUSLY POINTED OUT TO DR LIPPKE who suggested removal of these when i am able to have her teeth cleaned, should these be removed at end of her surgery? or left alone as this surgery is hard enough on her? I have no idea when she will be able to get her teeth cleaned, and didnt know if they seemed related to what her blood work has shown or to her adrenal issue.
*knot or bump located general area deep in fur to the skin, behind right ear
* white lumps on either side of outer lip
*while she was ER middle October, i noticed a lump on her left back leg...hock area. Tech originally felt maybe from injection but didn't know, but it has never gone away and may be slightly larger

Things I have observed
*picks up left back foot up and down (not daily)
* kicks both rear legs while resting, and may change sides (not daily)
*sudden jumps expressing pain and shows signs of stress, and whimpers (not daily)
*Daily does a honking like cough, looks like she cant breathe when it happens, sounds horrible and always frightens me a bit, i dont know if that is the reverse sneeze? i always sooth her, rub her throat gently, and maybe try and distract her
*At LEAST Four times has had urine accident(not little but full bladder accidents) on carpet instead of using pad, maybe the tumor is bothering her...hope she is not one in zillion where it has grown rapidly. (i would rather have her pee on carpet than not have her) I try to never make her hold her bladder longer than 3-4 hours unless its nite time when she sleeps; she has option of using pad if she cant wait till morning and most time she makes it and if cant, she does use pad then) i have tried to be very routine since her bout in October, I have failed couple times at being tardy.
*she vomited clear fluid and tiny piece of fabric from one of her toys (can not believe she got one by me) 11-11-11 about 7ish evening time, no other issues that evening.
*Bowel movements are not large at all and are slender short pieces, one time it appeared to have a "skin" on stool maybe even mucus like, very odd, could actually peel it back, noticed straining on 11-2, sometimes its to soft but still has form, color has ranged from greenish to dark and glossy, evenings she usually has gas (i think its cute as long as she isnt hurting from it)
* not daily, eyes part way open when resting
*appetite is incredible, she scarfs her meals, i keep meals small and feed 3 times a day as to not upset her stomach so each meal she gets 1/2 can. 1 1/2 cans I/D Gastrointestinal (white with burgundy on label)
*stomach is loud (daily/evening)
*not daily, but scoots.

Requests: copy of ultrasound CT or MRI and report (whatever Dr. Hottinger would like) taken prior to surgery, copy of surgery report and care in ICU

Cautions:* She is a bolter and pulls out of collars,
* direct eye contact frightens her from strangers,
*she is use to a quiet calm environment with little movement normally associated with one adult *max two.
*Has Back Injury
*COMPLETELY hates her feet touched, distract her that will help ACTS like she is going to bite....she will even put her mouth on your hand and snarl, BUT SHE DOES NOT bite. Someone not knowing her would startle, or want to muzzle, but she doesnt bite though is great at bluffing.

PLEASE REMEMBER REPORTS FROM ER AND DR LIPPKE stating she does not do well without me. she is restless, and stresses. ER folder states alert at all hours but when she is being held she rests silently. I know this is not the norm. Normally Veterinarians feel its best pet parents stay away. When she doesnt feel well she longs to be held and does not understand when she is not, seriously, whatever she needs i will do. if i need to be in crate for 3 days with her then so be it, if you need me to stay away because that would be best, i will do anything in this world for her as long as it will benefit her. I respect each doctor and nurse and realize they have care that needs given, I do not want to be in way and know to not distract, If with her I am to hold her or lay beside her silently. I would rather have her in ICU till she is completely 100% safe!! blood work and cysto are being done Friday November 19th in morning, likely fasting
Please advise if her results are not satisfactory for success of surgery
She will have no food or water after midnight on Sunday November 27th
Will arrive at Gulf Coast by 8am Monday November 28th
Abdominal ultrasound, CT or MRI
surgery
Will hope she can be released Thursday following surgery pending how her recovery is progressing.

Thank you and look forward to hearing back from you. i say this to you and Dr Hottinger with deepest sincerity, I am grateful for your kindness and patients to me and Shysie, I am not meaning to be encumberson, i understand your each very busy, my behavior is because she is more precious to me than anything here, I am protective of her and want the best for her, which i feel you each will give her by all means. I have heard amazing things about Dr. Hottinger and Gulf Coast, and Dr. Hottinger spoke highly of you!!! Being she is the most precious meaningful thing in my life, this world, i admit, I am nervous, and fearful, this is huge critical surgery, new building, new people, trusting to care for what is incredible to me.

Altira

11-15-2011, 05:35 AM

That sounds a lot like my Kira was. She got a lot of those huge fatty bumps. Which I forgot to mention are smaller now after the surgery. Yup we had poop problems too. Personally I wouldn't worry about the teeth. Let them wake her up as soon as possible. Kicking legs oddly, breathing problems, peeing problems. Yup had those too. Still do. I don't think they will let you hold her. I think they will advise against it. But it doesn't hurt to ask. They did let me sit with Mira in a examing room once. I couldn't leave her alone, I sat out in the parking lot for hours. Finally I snuck part way into the back. I stood out of the way and listened. Someone asked what I was doing and all I could get out was... Mira not crying. Had she been they couldn't have stopped me from finding her. That's when they put her in a room with me. This was Mira not Kira. I told then I didn't want her to cry.

I to sent letters of my concerns about Kiras surgery. I even insisted the surgeon take the time to answer 40 questions I had. I had my sister read them because I couldn't get the words out. He did it! I felt much better. He was confident. My last question was... What have I missed? Everyone just laughed. Do what ever you can to help you feel better. Yeah and find out as much as you can ahead of time.
There were a lot of scary things going on with Kira before surgery.

Squirt's Mom

11-15-2011, 10:46 AM

Dear, sweet Skye,

When I read your post, I teared up. My heart goes out to you because I can feel your anguish - and I understand it fully. When they found that tumor in Squirt, things moved very quickly - she was in surgery in just a few days. But for every second of each of those days waiting, I was a total wreck. My mind ran rampant with horrible possibilities. Squirt's every move was suspect, precious but suspect. I was terrified of picking her up for fear I would cause a rupture - but I had to carry her at times. I touched her every opportunity I had, kissing her face all the way down to the tip of her tail. I lay in the floor with her where ever she was just to be close. I cried and cried and cried daily; by the time the day came to take her to the hospital, I was sick from worry and fear.

When they came into the waiting room to get her, it took everything I had to let her go with them. I went with them as far as they would let me, then went back to the waiting room and just broke down. Staff and strangers comforted me, sitting with me until I was calmer. Everyone involved understood she and I have a very deep bond and they told me they would come get me to see her once she was prepped, and they did. She had already been shaved and been given a sedative but when she realized I was there, she got very excited and anxious to leave with me in spite of the meds. I have come to believe they did this for two reasons - 1) because they knew how important it was for me and 2) so I could see how my presence effected Squirt and understand why they didn't want me around right after surgery during the first stages of recovery. Squirt would need to rest and she couldn't do that with me around - she would want me to "rescue" her, take her home, and become agitated which could cause damage to the surgery area.

So, I would go sit in the waiting room off and on, and when I wasn't physically there I called the hospital ALLLLL the time. :o So often, in fact, they finally set a call schedule for me - they would call me at set times - and they did faithfully.

My baby girl came home and looked like a survivor of a war. :eek: There was an 8" gash down her belly, red and ugly; her eyes were matted with goo; her coat was dull, mashed stiff and flat with fluids - but there was light shining in those eyes and that beloved bushy tail was wagging. In spite of her appearance, she was the most beautiful thing I could imagine.

I know how you feel and I'm not the only one here who does. Many of us hear our own fears repeated in your post. We may not have all the answers you seek but we stand beside you as you seek them. And we will continue to stand beside you and Shysie every second. You sit in a virtual waiting room surrounded by "strangers" offering their comfort, strength, and encouragement.

Mom, you are doing a great job - I doubt I would have the presence of mind to ask the questions you have posed to Shysie's docs if we had had to wait as long as ya'll are. I would be a blithering idiot, not even able to tell you my name much less ask an intelligent question. :rolleyes::o

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Squirt's Mom

11-15-2011, 10:59 AM

*Daily does a honking like cough, looks like she cant breathe when it happens, sounds horrible and always frightens me a bit, i dont know if that is the reverse sneeze? i always sooth her, rub her throat gently, and maybe try and distract her

This does sound like reverse sneezing. Brick does this often as have other babies who have lived with me. What works for me is to put my finger, either lengthwise or just the tip depending on the size of the nose, across the nostrils to block air passage and force them to breath through their mouths for a second. This doesn't always stop it completely but it always stops it for a minute. Rubbing the throat gently and talking calmly also helps a lot and I always follow the "nostril blocking" with these steps.

* She is a bolter and pulls out of collars

The use of collars is linked to trachea damage and trachea damage is linked to reverse sneezing. Damage isn't always the cause; smaller dogs seem to be more prone to reverse sneezing in general regardless of collar usage. Over the years, I have come to use harnesses exclusively for several reasons. They don't cause damage to the throat area; they offer better control than collars; they are much harder to "escape" from than collars so they provide better protection when walking.

So, once she is fully recovered, you might want to introduce her to a harness and throw that collar away. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

11-15-2011, 11:12 AM

Yes harness is the only way she is walked ever. I only have collar on her at all times so she has constant id just in case she ever made a get away. Quick little thing. She has her micro chip tag, her tag with address and phone and name, and little charm that was to her when this started from friend in Miss. It is one of the Saints that is guardian over animals. (i am not Catholic so not real familiar with all the names of Saints, but this one Saint is watcher and cares for animals) so of course she needs to wear that. I wasnt sure if they would use her harness or not after surgery if they ever let her go for potty break knowing the incision would be so large so wanted to be sure and mention she can pull out of collars. Yes we have been waiting very long time for her surgery. We found out Oct 11th she needed it, had consult Oct 14ish, scheduled her surgery for 24th, then she took ill and they wanted to wait min. of 3 weeks to do surgery, then holiday and they said not over holiday, so 28th of Nov is where we landed for surgery date. OMG yes the waiting the constant mind wont shut down, the endless sleepless nite, yes kissing nose to tail, constant side by side.....but you know......i am so crazy about her i have always been that way with her....we have been inseperabable since she was month old! i am all she knows, and she is my world. so grateful for all of you, my goodness, seriously, you have no idea how beautiful i feel each of you are. (((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

Squirt's Mom

11-15-2011, 11:33 AM

It is one of the Saints that is guardian over animals. (i am not Catholic so not real familiar with all the names of Saints, but this one Saint is watcher and cares for animals)

This would be Saint Francis of Assisi. I'm not Catholic either but I dearly love this Saint. He is often depicted surrounded by animals of all kinds and his face shines with obvious love for these most innocent of souls. He loved the poor, the sick, any who had need. The Prayer of St. Francis is one everyone, regardless of their beliefs, can apply to their lives.

The Prayer of Saint Francis

"O Lord, make me an instrument of Thy Peace!
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is discord, harmony;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light, and
Where there is sorrow, joy.
Oh Divine Master, grant that I may not
so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand; to be loved
as to love; for it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life."

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-15-2011, 02:07 PM

This would be Saint Francis of Assisi. I'm not Catholic either but I dearly love this Saint. He is often depicted surrounded by animals of all kinds and his face shines with obvious love for these most innocent of souls. He loved the poor, the sick, any who had need. The Prayer of St. Francis is one everyone, regardless of their beliefs, can apply to their lives.

The Prayer of Saint Francis

"O Lord, make me an instrument of Thy Peace!
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is discord, harmony;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light, and
Where there is sorrow, joy.
Oh Divine Master, grant that I may not
so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand; to be loved
as to love; for it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life."
we chaperoned a bunch of high school kids to Italy a few years ago. Going to Assisi was the highlight for me. I'm not overly religious but it was quite something

Cyn719

11-15-2011, 02:15 PM

Skye - I feel for you and I pray for you and your baby every night - I read your post - I know how overwhelmed you are - but you are on top of everything - your little one will go into surgery and the vets will know every detail - so keep up what you are doing - you are a fantastic Mom for sure!!!!!! Always here for you!!! Big hugssssss lots of love support strength and prayers xoxo

Skye

11-18-2011, 02:38 AM

i heard back from doctors, they said the urine accidents was from hormone secreted from tumor. and that yes post op is risky and they do everything possible to not have them.
Well.....post complications from what i have learned happen 50% of time. Then i spent about an hour to myself sobbing.
and now....here is my next letter..........
**Paula are you normally the one Dr. Hottinger has assist her in surgeries? My heart sank when you said you would be gone. Will everyone who is caring for her be sure to get well informed of her health issues and behaviors? Will they be aware that 4 ER Doctors and Dr Lippke felt strongly she did best with me? Will you see her blood work and be able to speak to me about it before you go?

**Are you allowed to stay late in the hospital lobby area? late like evening late.

Seriously, this is a horrible horrible experience. I watch her and she is so full of life...
i have struggled with this every moment of every day since I knew, October 11th. Consult October 14th, horrible sick that very nite, ICU ER till following Monday ALTHOUGH have strong feelings about remaining very strong and positive for her, keep tears at bay till outside or away. Pretty sure you all should have a Xanax or Valium dispenser available for pet parents going through this, or a bar. (lol)

**is it true it would only be matter of time before it grew and spread cancer throughout her body then there is nothing that can be done to help her, this way she at least has a chance...right? because this tumor with size and location and lab results is 98% cancerous right?

**is her tumor bilateral? or unilateral?

**How long will her incision be?

**How long before critical part of recovery is over?

So her tumor has become active........earlier it was inactive.....so this is not good.

**What test can be done to ensure her hormones are not at dangerous level?

**when you receive her lab work....will you please let me know how Dr. Hottinger feels things look??? She still as ideal candidate as before???

I know i was told for her pre op to get CBC biochemical and cysto for urine testing. IF any additional test are needed, please call Their clinic and let them know, PLEASE speak to Joey Merton or Dr. Lippke. I agree with previous statement if to many handle issues at hand it can messed up. That is why I ONLY talk to Joey and Dr. Lippke. OR call me.

**I had learned that if cortisal is to high that can pose really horrid risks, and needs to be lowered prior to surgery...........what test would you like done? I am going to ask that they do the UPC and cortisal test to check levels. I am just concerned that since the urine is not a home sample how accurate it will be. However last time I took home sample collected and had cysto done and i dont think they used the home sample.

**Since she took horribly ill little over month ago...(she felt spongy and doughy even, it was bad.....when the spin test was done.....someone in field 12 plus years said they had NEVER seen one that bad. I strongly feel it was caused by all the fat in the food Hills U/D, it even looks like lard. I was going to ask that the PIL (Pancreatic Lipase Immunoreactivity)
(I am sorry, i am so grateful for every second with her, always have been, we've always been side by side, I simply can not bear the thought....i can not handle making wrong decision with her life, then some say, you can t make wrong decision.....i clearly see this as yes you can)

Has anyone guess that on my Christmas list is Merck Animal Health books? lol

I'm also trying to document as much as I can of this entire experience beginning with exam in September, her behavior, any changes, doctors, how my feelings have been.......also trying to take pictures along the way. Purpose of this, I want to be able to help another pet parent be strong, to feel understood, to help them understand themselves on this roller coaster. Also how to be observant in clinical things....we see our babies 7 days a week, doctors see them when ill or stressed from being in clinic, were the best advocate for our pets on clinical which helps the doctors as they proceed to diagnose, please let me know guidelines for camera use.

and Paula........Thank you. thank you so very very very much for being so incredibly wonderful

StarDeb55

11-18-2011, 02:50 AM

Skye, you have developed an excellent set of questions, looks like you have missed nothing. The only thing I can add is that your vet team can strongly suspect that the tumor is malignant but the key is "suspect". Neither your vet team or you will know absolutely for sure that the tumor is malignant until it is removed, & sent to pathology for confirmation. I'm sure the tumor will be sent to pathology, but you might want to confirm that.

Debbie

Skye

11-19-2011, 02:52 AM

yes it will be sent.........she said "... wait on the biopsy results to know for sure..."

she had her lab work all done to day...She had her CBC, Chemical, Cysto, UPC, Cortisal, and Pancreaitis Lipase Immunreactivity, so she is not feeling all that great this evening. And they will speak to me next week about all the labs to see if were where we need to be for surgery, and if its all okay, surgery will be done the 28th in the morning, BUT ultrasound prior to surgery that morning. i am trying with all i can think of to cover all bases for amazing success. i even asked for MRI or CT instead of ultrasound but they said that the anesthetic is needed and with what the surgery involves for that it would be to much for her pancreas so were just doing ultra sound.

Skye

11-19-2011, 02:56 AM

@ Debbie.....this is not even the first email of all my questions....LOL not to mention all the ones i had for the consult.
i first found out about this Oct 11th. Had consult on 14th, she was in ICU by following morning due to her pancreas, her first attack ever. so that pushed surgery off for bit longer.
So we have had month and half to stir up all kinds of questions, fears, anxiety
she even has her own facebook page.

Skye

11-22-2011, 09:02 PM

here is her pre op blood work things that are abnormal listed first.

ALK Phosphatase 886
Lipase 802
Lipemia Index...off the charts. "specimen required ul Tracentrifugation due to GROSS LIPEMIA
TCO2 24 (boderline)
HGB 17.8 (boderline)
MCH 26.2
MCHC 35.5 (boderline)
in urine 1+ Protein
Amorphous debris present
okay and now the full report (JUST IN CASE I MISSED SOMETHING)
CHEMICAL
ALK Phosphatase 886 10-150
ALT 34 5-107
AST 25 5-55
CK 129 10-200
GGT 3 0-14
Amylase 721 450-1240
Lipase 802 100-750
Albumin 3.6 2.5-4.0
Total Protein 7.1 5.1-7.8
Globulin 3.5 2.1-4.4
Total Bilirubin 0.1 0.0-0.4
Direct Bilirubin 0.0 0.0-0.2
BUN 18 7-27
Creatinine 0.8 0.4-1.8
Cholesterol 309 112-328
Glucose 106 60-125
Calcium 10.9 8.2-12.4
Phosphorus 4.3 2.1-6.3
TCO2 (Bicarbonate) 24 17-24
Chloride 109 105-115
Potassium 4.7 4.0-5.6
Sodium 147 141-156
A/G Ratio 1.0 0.6-1.6
B/C Ratio 22.5
Indirect Bilirubin 0.1 0-0.3
NA/K Ratio 31 27-40
Lipemia Index GROSS Lipemia
Anion Gap 19 12-24

CBC Comprehensive
WBC 10.3 5.7-16.3
RBC 6.79 5.5-8.5
HGB 17.8 12-18
HCT 50.2 37-55
MCV 74 60-77
MCH 26.2 19.5-26.0
MCHC 35.5 32-36
Neutrophil Seg 75 60-77
Lymphocytes 18 12-30
Monocytes 4 3-10
Eosinophil 3 2-10
Basophil 0 0-1
Auto Platelett 433 164-510
Absolute Neutrophil Seg 7725 3000-11500
Absolute Lymphocyte 1854 1000-4800
Absolute Monocyte 412 150-1350
Absolute Eosinophil 309 100-1250
Absolute Basophil 0 0-100

Free T4
ng/dl 1.5 0.6-2.7
pmo/l 19.3 7.7-47.6
T4 2.3 1.0-4.0

UPC
Urine Protein 61.0
Urine Creatinine 127.7
Color Yellow
UP/CR 0.5
SPEC cpl 136

[U]Cortisal Add-on
Cortisol 4.1 2.0-6.0

Urinalysis Add-On
Collection method Cystocentesis
color Yellow
Clarity cloudy
Specific Gravity 1.020
Glucose Negative
Bilirubin Negative
Ketones Negative
Blood Negative
PH 5.5
Protein 1+
WBC 0-2 0-5
RBC 0-2 0-5
Bacteria None Seen
EPI Cell None seen
Mucus None seen
Casts None Seen
Crystals None Seen
Other Amorphous Debris Present
Urobilinogen Normal

Adrenalectomy surgery left gland Monday will have additional Abdominal Ultrasound so surgeon is as aware as possible and as up to date as possible prior to surgery.
ANY AND ALL FEEDBACK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StarDeb55

11-22-2011, 09:22 PM

Skye, with a grossly lipemic sample, meaning there is a lot of fat in the blood, along with an elevated lipase, that concerns me a little, in light of the recent pancreatitis attack.

SPEC cpl 136
I assume this is the cPl test that is the real test to check for pancreatitis? I'm not familiar enough with this test yet, so could you edit in the normal range, please. If this result is, indeed, normal, I think you can disregard the above comments.

Debbie

Skye

11-22-2011, 09:23 PM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=174764492611995&set=a.174764489278662.46261.174750042613440&type=3&theater

here is her pre op blood work things that are abnormal listed first.

ALK Phosphatase 886
Lipase 802
Lipemia Index...off the charts. "specimen required ul Tracentrifugation due to GROSS LIPEMIA
TCO2 24 (boderline)
HGB 17.8 (boderline)
MCH 26.2
MCHC 35.5 (boderline)
in urine 1+ Protein
Amorphous debris present
okay and now the full report (JUST IN CASE I MISSED SOMETHING)
CHEMICAL
ALK Phosphatase 886 10-150
ALT 34 5-107
AST 25 5-55
CK 129 10-200
GGT 3 0-14
Amylase 721 450-1240
Lipase 802 100-750
Albumin 3.6 2.5-4.0
Total Protein 7.1 5.1-7.8
Globulin 3.5 2.1-4.4
Total Bilirubin 0.1 0.0-0.4
Direct Bilirubin 0.0 0.0-0.2
BUN 18 7-27
Creatinine 0.8 0.4-1.8
Cholesterol 309 112-328
Glucose 106 60-125
Calcium 10.9 8.2-12.4
Phosphorus 4.3 2.1-6.3
TCO2 (Bicarbonate) 24 17-24
Chloride 109 105-115
Potassium 4.7 4.0-5.6
Sodium 147 141-156
A/G Ratio 1.0 0.6-1.6
B/C Ratio 22.5
Indirect Bilirubin 0.1 0-0.3
NA/K Ratio 31 27-40
Lipemia Index GROSS Lipemia
Anion Gap 19 12-24

CBC Comprehensive
WBC 10.3 5.7-16.3
RBC 6.79 5.5-8.5
HGB 17.8 12-18
HCT 50.2 37-55
MCV 74 60-77
MCH 26.2 19.5-26.0
MCHC 35.5 32-36
Neutrophil Seg 75 60-77
Lymphocytes 18 12-30
Monocytes 4 3-10
Eosinophil 3 2-10
Basophil 0 0-1
Auto Platelett 433 164-510
Absolute Neutrophil Seg 7725 3000-11500
Absolute Lymphocyte 1854 1000-4800
Absolute Monocyte 412 150-1350
Absolute Eosinophil 309 100-1250
Absolute Basophil 0 0-100

Free T4
ng/dl 1.5 0.6-2.7
pmo/l 19.3 7.7-47.6
T4 2.3 1.0-4.0

[U]UPC
Urine Protein 61.0
Urine Creatinine 127.7
Color Yellow
UP/CR 0.5
SPEC cpl 136

Cortisal Add-on
Cortisol 4.1 2.0-6.0

Urinalysis Add-On
Collection method Cystocentesis
color Yellow
Clarity cloudy
Specific Gravity 1.020
Glucose Negative
Bilirubin Negative
Ketones Negative
Blood Negative
PH 5.5
Protein 1+
WBC 0-2 0-5
RBC 0-2 0-5
Bacteria None Seen
EPI Cell None seen
Mucus None seen
Casts None Seen
Crystals None Seen
Other Amorphous Debris Present
Urobilinogen Normal

Adrenalectomy surgery left gland Monday will have additional Abdominal Ultrasound so surgeon is as aware as possible and as up to date as possible prior to surgery.
ANY AND ALL FEEDBACK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________

Skye

11-22-2011, 09:31 PM

Debbie,
Thank you for responding so quickly, My Gawd I am very worried about those as well.
I did confirm they will be manipulating pancreas some (concerns me)
anesthetic (irritates pancreas which concerns me)
Medicine after surgery irritates pancreas (which concerns me)
and the GROSS Lipemia concerns me alot. all of this does.
Not to mention HALF of all patients have complications post op
I need feedback and I need feedback quickly. Tomorrow is Wednesday, then the holiday, they are of course closed on weekends and then monday morning is her surgery.

Skye

11-22-2011, 09:39 PM

sorry i forgot to add this part........
They had only ordered the CBC, Chemical and Urine test....I added all the others on myself as I felt they were vitally important considering..........
so this SPEC cPL Test result is 136 with no reference range flag or bar graph.
underneath written in paragraph form does say this so MAYBE you can help me?
< or = 200 ug/L Serum Spec cPL concentrations is in the nromal range.

201 - 399 ug/L Serum Spec cPL concentrations is increased. The patient may have pancreatitis and serum Spec cPL concentration should be re-evaluated. If Clinical signs are present, treat appropriately and perform additional diagnostics to investigate other differential diagnoses. Repeat the Spec cPL in 1-2 weeks. If no clinical signs are present, recommend retesting in 3-4 weeks
> or = 400 ug/L Serum Spec cPL concentration is consistent with pancreatitis.

SO maybe that means is normal range

Harley PoMMom

11-22-2011, 09:49 PM

Many things can elevate the lipase so with a cPL result of 136 pancreatitis is not an issue, which is great news!

Will definitely be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers, wishing you both the best of luck and please keep us posted.

Sending huge and loving hugs,
Lori

Skye

11-22-2011, 10:03 PM

it continues to increase so could you please tell me what i may need to be concerned with because it is very much out of range

Harley PoMMom

11-22-2011, 11:37 PM

High amount of triglycerides causes hyperlipasemia (high lipase) also any gut disorder can cause the lipase to be elevated. Maybe having her triglycerides checked and if the results are high would be the reason the lipase is increasing.

Skye

11-22-2011, 11:46 PM

okay thank you so much. So i should have triglycerides checked, okay i will research to see what testing can be done for that and what it causes, and gut disorders.......well, she is having another ultrasound done right before surgery. i had wanted mri or ct scan but they said that would require more anesthetic time and she doesnt need that extra stress of that right now so their only doing ultrasound........my request not theirs. just figure way my luck is......want to make sure nothing has changed. trying to do everything within my control to have complete success.

Cyn719

11-22-2011, 11:58 PM

You are a fantasic Mom Skye -- keep up the good work - your baby is in good hands:)

Harley PoMMom

11-23-2011, 12:05 AM

I would bet that the hyperlipasemia is from high triglycerides and not a gut problem. Colitis, IBD, gall bladder, and IBS are some of the gut issues that may cause an elevated lipase and it doesn't seem that any of these are a issue for your girl.

Skye

11-23-2011, 12:31 AM

okay thank you again so so so so much
that cant be good to have them increasing like that. not at all.
will see if i can figure out how to get that under control.
did the picture show of her in my one post? when we were in ICU back in Oct
i will repost just in case i messed up...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.174792472609197.46265.174750042613440&type=3
and here is one more
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=174764492611995&set=a.174764489278662.46261.174750042613440&type=3&theater

these will make you go aweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, my little darling!!!!!!!!!! oh she just wants to be held non stop when she doesnt feel good bless her little heart.

Harley PoMMom

11-23-2011, 12:38 AM

Loved the pics and Shysie is just adorable!!!!

Cyn719

11-23-2011, 01:41 AM

Skye - the pics are great!! Thanks for sharing them!! - Shysei is so cute!!!! She loves to be cuddled for sure and loves her mommy!!!:):) xo

Skye

11-23-2011, 01:51 AM

she is my world...........if you cant tell!!!!! please if you want to, click "like" button on her page, I post on how were doing, what were doing, and oh the emotional struggle that attempts to over ride inner strength and faith. We also have an "event" scheduled, but its of the heart...meaning day of her surgery to be sure to send a prayer for complete success and completely restored health. here is the blanket i made her https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.178352358919875.47349.174750042613440&type=3
(thank you all for letting me share warm fuzzy love of my baby) And Cindy this is the photos i have been trying to post to an album! could never get that to work.

Squirt's Mom

11-23-2011, 08:47 AM

Mornin' Skye,

I "liked"!!!! :D You are both just beautiful!

I am no expert, but those labs look pretty good to me...especially considering that tumor is present. I would have expected several values to be way off but it looks like she is doing good.

When Squirt had the tumor and half her spleen removed, they did manipulate the pancreas - and she did have an acute attack afterward as a result. The pancreas is a very picky organ and does not like to be disturbed. But I do not remember any other member who's baby had an issue after surgery where the organ was moved around. So it doesn't happen to everyone - it is just one of those possibilities they tell us about so we have plenty to worry about. :rolleyes::p Squirt's records from that period are somewhere in one of two storage units but it seems her labs were more out of whack than Shysie's are; seems her liver, pancreas, cholesterol, and triglycerides were all out of whack prior to the surgery. And we had several tests where the lipids were too high to read.

Seems like Squirt spent 3 days in the hospital after the surgery; I know she was home only one day when the pancreas flared up and she went back to the hospital for another 4 days. I was sick with worry, scared sh*!less, cried constantly - you know exactly how I felt. ;)

Skye, that was in Sept. 2008. It is now Nov. 2011 and my Sweet Bebe is laying beside me as I talk to you. Alive, happy, and still going strong at 14. I choose to believe that in Nov. of 2014 you and Shysie will be sitting side by side, this terrifying time in your life just a memory to share with someone else who is where you are now.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-23-2011, 10:59 AM

Skye - Love it!!!!!!!!!! Wow nice job!!!! And I can see Shysie loves it too!!!!!! Your furniture is beautiful - love that couch - just my style!!!

Shysie you have a very loving, beautiful and talented mom who loves you sooooo much!!! Hugsssssssss

Skye

11-23-2011, 12:42 PM

Lesile
thank you, eyes full of tears, thank you to everyone, thank you for everyone holding me up so i can be strong for Shysie
Her and I, were a pair i tell ya
I am more than certain Gulf Coast will be so happy when they do not have me as around, LOL
They probably feel like they are in a dark room, sitting in a hard chair, smoke lingering in air, with a extremely bright hot light shining down on them, and being refused water and food, and tiny light of tape recorder recording every breath, until all questions are answered satisfactorly, LOL and that is me remaining calm! i sit here now burying my face in her chest and torso inhaling as deep as i can, love her so much, and yes kisses head to tail! even her little toes!!!!! (she doesnt like her toes messed with much, so to get to kiss toes is big, lol) If anyone notice necklace i wearing, that is a "Imprint" necklace, each charm has my babies actual paw print on it, with inscriptions on back of charm, i also have earrings, ring, and bracelet with their imprints, and if you go to her facebook you will see where a lady has made a necklace and made a story to it that she is auctioning, i read the captions under each photo and sat and cried, if anyone ever needs special pieces made i know a couple of ladies that you will never forget

Skye

11-24-2011, 12:55 AM

Cindy, you wouldnt believe the deal I got on the couch and loveseat, and they were brand new! i was very lucky as these kind people who have an amazing house and amazing taste deceided to change how they were going to decorate a room at last minuted and wanted a different set of furniture so they sold the couch and love seat for LESS than what the love seat alone cost

mypuppy

11-26-2011, 02:26 PM

Hi Skye,

I have been trying to keep up to date with threads, and just realized your baby Shysie is scheduled for surgery on Monday. WOW! I simply wanted to offer my prayers for a smooth and successful surgery, and that Shysie will be blessed with returned health (you are both so worthy of that and much more).

Best and warmest regards, all our love and support and some special tight hugs.

xo Jeanette and Princess

Altira

11-26-2011, 09:23 PM

You are in my thoughts and prayers. Everything will be ok, it just has to be! Shysie is holding strong and getting the best care ever! Hugs!

Skye

11-27-2011, 01:46 AM

whew, ya'll, i dont know bout this....seriously i think my organs are trembling....its after midnite here, so its offically sunday...restless, up down up down up down this and that, should just be sitting here holding her tight.....but guess the up and down gives my worries a chance to air out, keep my heart fresh and positive when next to her........had a "ugly girl" cry earlier.....she is just so busy exploring all the luggages out, all happy, like ohhhhhh were going on journey!!!!! i told my husband i couldnt forgive my self if she is hurt, she is trusting me, and if this journey i am leading turns bad for her i will crumble to the earth knowing she trusted me, she was happy, excited and i led her to something bad. Its so confusing to know what to do.......if you leave it alone there is risk of bad, if you take it out risk of bad if you wait risk of bad. every single one has huge risks. how does any pet parent make it through this???? we first found out mid september with the blood work with slight elevations, much testing later, an ultrasound found tumor on left adrenal gland mid october, suggestions were remove it, or leave it....risks on both. have read this is the most dangerous surgery a dog can have with over 50% that have recovery complications, i watch her play and she is so amazing. then as most of you know she took very ill mid october with her first ever pancreas issue and was in ICU, that made her surgery get pushed further out.......now its in little over 24 hours........my head is pounding, stomach in knots, wide wide wide awake. love her so very very much. Thank you all for your kind supportive posts.......you will never ever know how much each of you mean to me, my heart will never ever forget you.

Altira

11-27-2011, 02:25 AM

For what it's worth I'll say I too read this is a very, if not the most dangerous surgery done on dogs todate. I too thought the risks were somewhere in the 50% range. But the surgeon himself told me it is actually much less. This surgery is much more under their belts now. But that certainly is no guarantee. They say with any surgery there is no guarantee. So what about the damned if you do, damned if you don't issue. For me I took more comfort with the thought of the threat of cancer being gone and Cushings being cured. I know Shysie only has mild signs, if any, Cushing symptoms. But you sure don't want to face that if you can help it. Cushings meds are scary too. With my Kira she did end up with some bad underlining issues afterward but she was well into Cushings, the symptoms were obvious and had been for years. Those symptoms are now gone. She was cured as promised and unlucky things did surface. My point is, if Shysies symptoms are slight, the chances of unknown things would seem to be less likely. Gee I hope that made sence.

Anyway. My then, 10 year old Kira, made it through the surgery without the slightest hint of a problem. A good example that this surgery has been mastered. Ken said the same about his dog and his end result was fantastic too! I for one say doing it for Shysie is the right thing to do for her. If for no other reason, you want that threat of cancer gone! I know my Kira is not in the best of health but cancer is not something I fear for her right now and that is worth so much.

Hold tight my friend...

Skye

11-27-2011, 04:14 AM

thank you my dear friend........your kind supportive words mean a great deal. about 29 hours away from time were suppose to arrive.

Squirt's Mom

11-27-2011, 09:40 AM

Mornin' Skye,

Yup, all that pacing, and piddling around, and crying jags, and vibrating organs is absolutely normal. :D So you are right on schedule! :p

I just about rubbed all the hair off Squirt's body loving on her that last day before her surgery - and she's a hairy little booger! ;) No doubt she felt bruised from all the hugging, and she got to where she would snarl at me because I was constantly checking her gums. :rolleyes: At nite, I would raise up in bed and touch her over and over and over, just to reassure myself. And always the thoughts - what if this? what if that? omg! What IF?!?!...that tumor might never rupture...it might not grow any more...the ultrasound could be wrong... But in my heart of hearts, I knew the surgery was her only chance for life, not a guarantee but the only chance she had for a future.

And all those days of my terror were worth it for us both.

I know it is very difficult, if not impossible right now, for you to believe all will be ok; that three years from now you will be sitting there telling someone else how you survived Shysie's surgery, sharing your experiences and strength. So, for today, all you have to believe is that I believe this is perfectly possible.

Love on that baby girl all you can, spoil her more than ever, and know that you and she are not alone. We are with you every minute.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

11-27-2011, 02:03 PM

Lesile.......does this look familiar?https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.189085701179874.49485.174750042613440&type=3

thank you so for you letter......i will feel better Thursday....surgery and critical hours will have past by then i hope. My heart loves her completely, I can not even imgaine being able to breathe without her.

lulusmom

11-27-2011, 02:20 PM

From Shysie's facebook page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=62i341xDEHc#!

Squirt's Mom

11-27-2011, 02:27 PM

LOL, Skye! :D:D Yes, very familiar! :D

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-27-2011, 03:21 PM

Best of luck for a smooth surgery and recovery tomorrow Skye. Judi

Cyn719

11-27-2011, 08:14 PM

Skye -- just checking in - hope you settled in ok -- I know this is one of the hardest things you will have to do - but stay positive - you have great surgeons and Shysie is a tough little girl -- again sending all my love - all my support - all my strength - all my prayers ----and lots and lots of hugssssssss ---- I wll be right there with you - holding your hand - hugging you through all of it - will check in tomorrow for updates ---- give Shysie another kiss for me xoxoxoxoxoxoxo

A Pet Blessing
Dearest God, Heavenly Father
maker of all living creatures,
we ask you to bless Shysie
who brings so much joy into our lives.
By the power of Your love,
enable her to live according to your plan.
May we always praise You for all Your beauty in creation.
who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
Blessed are You, God, in all Your creatures!
Basilica and Shrine of Our Lady of Consolation

O Lord,
Every creature,
in every forest, field, and home,
belongs to you, and is under your loving care.
May your blessing be upon Shysie,
and, in your great kindness,
Keep her safe from all harm.
We pray that you would show forth
your eternal love and mercy,
in the companionship and friendship
that this dog provides. Amen
David Bennett

Skye

11-27-2011, 08:21 PM

thank you all for all the support and care. we made it to houston and in hotel unpacked and such. trip here sure stresses her so i am glad she gets to settle a bit before............
i feel horribly homesick, teary and want this to all go away. i dont want to make this decision, i would rather take this battle alone and have her safe and okay....left completely out of it. trying to be strong for her..........and if i am leading her to doom i will never ever forgive myself..........she is so brave, so strong, if she only knew how incredible she is, how much she teaches about life. i just feel so completely over whelmed its unreal.so grateful for all of you.....would hate to think how i would be without you.

Altira

11-27-2011, 08:32 PM

You are not alone Skye... not by a long shot!

Maybe it's time to stop doubting yourself. With our dogs how do we ever know if we are doing the right things. They can't tell us where it hurts. I don't know, I'm grasping at straws too. Wanting to help and not knowing how. What about a tiny bit of peanut butter? I bet she'd smile real big for that.

jmac

11-27-2011, 10:41 PM

I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I have a hard time trying to stay caught up on everyone, but I tried to catch up on your story. I know how hard it is to know what to do, and we could drive ourselves crazy wondering if we are doing the right thing. You are doing what you feel is best, trying to help your dog, and that is what's important. We are all here to help you through this tough time....

Julie & Hannah

Squirt's Mom

11-28-2011, 07:25 AM

Mornin' Skye,

Sending prayers, healing white light, strength and hugs flying your way for all. Remember that we are right beside you all through this ordeal. We will be checking in on you and thinking of you and Shysie.

Keep your chin up, Mom!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

frijole

11-28-2011, 07:30 AM

Skye, The cush angels are out in full force today hovering over you and your baby. Be strong and know we are there in spirit holding your hand. Kim

Altira

11-28-2011, 08:06 AM

If i have the time zones correct, I believe she is likely up now and due to be at the gulf coast in an hour. Terrified I'm sure. If all goes as planned the surgery might start in three hours. 9am central time. But when do things ever go as planned.

labblab

11-28-2011, 08:19 AM

Another cushangel reporting for duty :o! I'll be sending your precious baby tons of healing thoughts, and huge armfuls of hugs are heading your way, Skye...

Marianne

Cyn719

11-28-2011, 10:46 AM

Skye - I am also right there with you -

Praying and sending lots of love, support and strenght

Hugsssssssss xoxoxoxo

Altira

11-28-2011, 01:50 PM

Skye is still with Shysie. They haven't taken her yet.

UPDATE: ultrasound didn't show any changes. It's Shysie's turn in about 45 minutes. The second surgery of this type for the doc today. Skye seemed hopeful.

Squirt's Mom

11-28-2011, 02:16 PM

OMG!!! Waiting all this time! Bless your heart! Do they have Xanax in a bowl on the counter??? :p

We are all still waiting with you, still sending prayers.

I am so grateful to Janis ;) - THANKS for keeping us updated!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Altira

11-28-2011, 02:46 PM

Ok they just took her. Of course mommy is in tears.

frijole

11-28-2011, 02:47 PM

Sending prayers and strength. Kim

Cyn719

11-28-2011, 06:14 PM

Skye - right here waiting with you - tight hugs!!!!!! xoxo

Altira

11-28-2011, 06:25 PM

It's done. All is well. She is still sleeping. They are sewing her up right now. Bp held strong. Pancreas is scared but that was expected. Skye is relieved. As we all are I'm sure. No mention of complications.

Cyn719

11-28-2011, 06:28 PM

Skye -

so happy all went well - you must feel so relieved --- still here with you -- let us know when Shysie is awake - xoxoxoxoxoxo

jmac

11-28-2011, 06:38 PM

Skye-
I am so glad to hear things went well and there were no complications! Yay! I hope Shysie will continue to do well. As Cindy said, please keep us updated along the way. Let us know when she is awake and how she is doing. I'll keep you in my thoughts...

Julie & Hannah

Squirt's Mom

11-28-2011, 06:49 PM

Great news!!! :D:D:D

Prayers continue!!!

Altira

11-28-2011, 06:50 PM

From Skye:
"Shysie in recovery! She did it! She made it through one of top most dangerous and difficult surgeries. Next 48 hours are next battle...keep prayers flowing!"

Altira

11-28-2011, 06:55 PM

More from Skye:
"Love u all! Tell all angels that please....and ur one too ya know.....tell lesile to stop hogging all the tissues! Lol I know she has been tearing and blowing with me. I think when the doctor hugged me I might have bruised her lol!"

lulusmom

11-28-2011, 07:31 PM

Good news!!! Plenty of prayers being said in Los Angeles.

Glynda

P.S. As I was sitting here biting my finger nails waiting for an update, it dawned on me that it's been really quiet today on the forum. I think it's all those pins and needles we've all been sitting on today.

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-28-2011, 07:39 PM

Excellent news! Continuing to pray for Shysie.

Harley PoMMom

11-28-2011, 08:11 PM

Such great news!!! Prayers being said in PA.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Cyn719

11-28-2011, 08:43 PM

Skye -- wonderful news!!!!!!!! I am crying but happy tears!!!!!!! I told you shes small but she is so strong!!!!! My prayers will continue for a healthy recovery!!!!!! Yup i bet thats the biggest hug that vet ever got!!:D:D You and your husband must be soooooo exhausted!!!!! Hope you can get aliittle rest tonight - here are some great big HUGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!! Keep updating!!! xoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Altira

11-28-2011, 09:09 PM

Good god if you haven't already seen these videos then take a look. Skye and Shysie on the floor of a examining room today. So sweet!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Shysie-Moon-Adrenalectomy-Recovery-Fund/174750042613440

Skye

11-28-2011, 09:42 PM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150504308937265&set=vb.174750042613440&type=2&permPage=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150504326787265

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150504321502265&set=vb.174750042613440&type=2&permPage=1

wow what a day....we arrived at Gulf Coast shortly before 8 this morning and just getting settled into hotel room now. They allowed me a exam room to stay with Shysie until it was time......they took her from my arms at about 1:30. Extremely dangerous surgery, and the Doctor knows how incredible precious this little girl is. Dr. Hottinger even asked her surgery team as they were placing her under anesthetic to say over and over and over and over....Shysie your momma loves you.....(me, sobbing, sorry, very emotional day) yes Shysie, momma does love you so. So very very much. I had prepared myself mentally for an hour or little more....but when no word came 3 hours later, I had to ask how my world was doing...they intercomed into surgery and Dr Hottinger immediately replied she is doing good with anesthetic and still in surgery. Okay...I wait some more, not even wanting to move from where i am at incase they need me and cant see me or where i had moved to, my bladder won....i had to go to ladies room and of course that is when Doctor came out....she was speaking to Zack as I came around the corner, kneeling down, scrubs head to toe literally, I think they both saw my face and thought OH NO SHE IS GOING DOWN (of course i thought the worst) quickly the Dr Hottinger informed me she is doing beautifully. Blood pressure remained stable through out surgery, which is huge...adrenal gland....adrenalin, her pancreas has scarring which they expected from how ill she had taken mid October. Tumor came out, and they were closing her up and would be back after that. THANK YOU GOD!!!!!! the Doctor, all of 105 pounds of her opened her arms to hug me, I am concerned i may have fractured her rib or bruised her....i hugged her with my soul, and i mean i didnt let go. i sobbed happy relieved sobs and the packed waiting room fell silent, others not knowing for sure exactly what had happened. I couldnt help it, I had bottled up so much for so long and oh the blessing washed that fear out and it felt good. (everyone smiling???? I am) Dr Hottinger returned as promised, answered all my questions, offered much encouragement, and even let me hug her again. Now her next battle, the next 48 hours are extremely critical.....over 50% suffer complications, so pour it on with those prayers!!!!! and rejoice as well.

Altira

11-28-2011, 09:45 PM

Talking about pins and needles. I got so worried I called the Gulf Coast! They of coarse wouldn't tell me anything but I gave it a shot. About sixty correction two seconds after I hung up the first text from Skye came in. Yeah we were all holding our breaths.

I bet if Skye is up to it, Shysie will be camped out with her in that hotel room tomorrow night. Kira came home the next day. Course I don't know, maybe the pancreas thing may need to be watched longer. Kira didn't have anything else wrong.

Cyn719

11-28-2011, 09:52 PM

Skye thank you for sharing that!!!! I am so emotionally happy she did so well through the operation - you and Zack must be so mentally exhausted - I hope you both can get some sleep - you need to be wide eyed and bushy tailed for Shysie in the AM!!!!:) Ongoing prayers for Shysie!!!!!! Sending you lots and lots of love strength supports and BIG HUGSSSSSSSSS - JUST LIKE YOU GAVE TO THE DOCTOR!!!!!!:D:D Will be checking in all the time----xoxoxoxoxoxo

Oh and those were the most precious pics ever!!!! and the beautiful video!!!!!!!! Ok that brought on the waterworks!!!!!!:)

Skye

11-28-2011, 10:02 PM

I hope you all can see the links i posted on message above...
I want to say something....Addressing to each and every person who has read this thread, commented, supported, held me and my darling, prayed, and are continuing to pray....I speak to each and all of you...from the core of my very soul straight from my heart, tears in my eyes.....i read all your posts.........i am overwhelmed with emotion, the support, the care, knowing all of you glued to the screen or phones or waiting for the tone of them to signal message posted....I could have NEVER come this far without you.......I could have never learned to be the advocate to help her, to learn and help guide as to what was happening as the doctors only see them stressed and lab reports and we see them always. You give strength, courage, knowledge, and acknowledge yes this is scary, but to conquer each battle, face the fear with courage and strength of all of Gods Angles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i realize our war is not over, but one battle done, and one at a time, to go to the next. I realize the critical time is not over, and were in the midst of it, so keep pouring them prayers out, dont stop, lets keep carrying this girl through, I am listening to each and every one of you, I am racing through this battle field with her in my arms, I am blind folded with only tiny holes to focus completely on her.....i listen to your direction to guide me through as I race with her in my arms, not listening to fear nipping at my heels, not looking left and right to see what ifs, both eyes on her, ears listening and knowing, all of your wings surround me in covered tunnel of angel wings as I am racing through them with her, and together her and i will arrive safely to rejoice all together. My heart will never ever forget you.

Harley PoMMom

11-28-2011, 11:28 PM

Although in spirit, we are all with you and your precious girl, surrounding you both with our love. Sending huge hugs, positive energy, and healing thoughts...prayers continuing.

With much love, Lori

Skye

11-28-2011, 11:59 PM

so proud of you darling!!!!!! you are so brave, your so strong, and i love you so very much....you keep fighting, give it all you got my sweetheart, dont stop not even for a moment, you got people all over the world praying for you!!!! we will give you strength and God is leading us all as He is hearing our prayers!!!!! Miss you so much by my side, momma loves you sweetheart, i am right here....I need you....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXSY9u2xyNs
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
www.youtube.com

Cyn719

11-29-2011, 01:56 AM

Beautiful song Skye ----- Shysie has a wonderful mom and dad for sure!!!! God will watch over Shysie tonight - sleep well ------ will check in tomorrow for an update ---- xoxo

Skye

11-29-2011, 03:28 AM

I am sorry i think i failed to mentioned that she did come around after surgery and incision was closed, doctor said she was still very sleepy but was waking. I miss my darling so. Love to all you beautiful angels.

mypuppy

11-29-2011, 06:47 AM

Oh Skye,

What awesome news to wake up to considering we have all been up all night thinking about your precious Shysie and you. I think you are both pretty amazing.

keep the faith and lots of tight hugs being sent your way.

love ya, Jeanette and Princess

labblab

11-29-2011, 07:25 AM

I totally agree with Jeanette -- what awesome news!!! Skye, I know you've still got a long way to go, but you and Shysie will have our thoughts and prayers with you every step of the way.

Marianne

frijole

11-29-2011, 08:15 AM

Continued prayers and warm thoughts. Kim

Altira

11-29-2011, 08:34 AM

Are they putting her on prednisone? They started giving it to Kira right away.

Love the new signature. ;-)

jmac

11-29-2011, 08:37 AM

Skye-
So glad to hear Shysie is still doing well! I hope that continues. You have tons of thoughts and prayers coming your way!

Julie & Hannah

Squirt's Mom

11-29-2011, 09:37 AM

Hi Skye,

So glad she came through with flying colors!

The video of you sitting in the floor with her brought more tears to my eyes. It was so easy to see how much you love her and she you...and how terrified you were. Thank goodness that part is behind you! :)

Now for the really hard part...while she is still in the hospital, you need to take advantage of the time to rest as much as possible - and do something good for yourself. You are going to need all your strength and energy when she comes home. Now is the time to let all that pent up negative energy from worrying about the surgery go - just let it flow out of you. Visit when you can, call as often as you like to check on her (until they put you on a call schedule like me, that is...:p) then spend the rest of the time on Skye. Sleep as much as you can; go get some spa treatments; have your sweet hubby take you out to a nice restaurant and movie there in Houston; go shopping;...and sleep as much as you can. ;):D These next couple of days are Skye-time. Don't feel guilty about doing any of these things or anything else you choose to do for yourself - you have earned it but most of all, it will refuel and refresh your spirit.

I am so proud of you, Skye....I can tell you now that I was just as worried about you as I was Shysie but you came through like a champ! Now, go get a treat or two! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS....OH! If they will let you, it sometimes helps the pup to feel more comfortable when they have something familiar in their cage. Many of us have taken blankets, our own clothing, even small soft toys to leave in our babies cages. Some facilities won't allow this but some do so it's worth asking about. ;)

Cyn719

11-29-2011, 11:04 AM

Stormee -

Good morning! Just checking in - I hope you got alittle sleep - well you posted in the AM a few times - I know you were worried about Skysie - hope all is good this morning - please remember to take care of yourself - Shysie is going to need you healthy through her recovery!! I will check back for an update - Love and prayers xoxoxo

Skye

11-29-2011, 11:18 AM

We heard from doctors this morning. Every one on edge of seat fluttering away angles??? .................(pausing, smiling........) i hear wings!!!!!
doctors said min pins are tough strong little dogs.....BUT she is really the exception. Everyone smiling????? my smile is wide as heaven. Thats right, power of prayer is very evident with this. Less than 24 hours later they were even considering letting her leave with me since i am 1/2 mile from them, and perhaps they remember me (coughcough) all the emails etc...prior to surgery. lol
as much as i wanted to leap on that.....we paused a moment and thought, and discussed more, and what is really best, and safest for her. We declined and will get her tomorrow if she continues doing so beautifully. They COMPLETELY supportive of decision. Knowing its still critical, many risks are still there....blood clots, adrenal issue, etc. Yes of course I want my baby, omg seriously, i have her toy stuffed in my sleeve sleeping with it, carrying with me every where, and yes....(sheepish smile) I sniff it cause i miss her so much. We have come this far....what is best....yes for us to be together of course...what is safest....having her where she has 24 hour medical watch and attention for another day. they are amazed at how incredible she is doing, very impressed, they said min pins are known for being tough strong little dogs, but she is one really tough strong little girl and it will be hard for me to keep her quiet.....they said i will really have to work at keeping her resting. lol, mom knows how....lol, i plug in her music, which is remarkable, i dont know if any of you have "through a dogs ear" but canine calm vol 3 is the greatest. My min pin is like ohhhhhhhhhh the music.......loves it. get her favorite blanket or blankets....she loves blankets. lol. so angels......God has richly blessed me by leading me to all of you, and your prayers are heard rest assured. Not to sound greedy, but not wanting to be over confident either.....please keep prayers and praise to God coming. BTW, i cherish and love each of you.

Skye

11-29-2011, 11:59 AM

Lesile...LOL I wore 3 t shirts for a week...........and then kept the one i wasnt wearing in bed with her and me when we slept, so they were all "seasoned" lol very well. LOL and i took one blanket, had to take the smaller one, her purple one, and one cushy liner pad like thing that is soft she likes to lay on as well. LOL, 3 t shirts, 1 blanket and 1 liner. LOL
I handed a "baby bag or diaper bag" like tote over, and i said, these are items for her that need to stay with her. She has enough for least two of these a day just in case she soils on any of them there are more in bag. AND I will save each sleep shirt in case extra are needed, LOL the nurses face was like ohhhhhhkay........(probably thinking ewwwwwwww this woman is handing me dirty laundery, lol) But Shysie and I were acting like this was her bag of treasures. LOL
I have just been updating everyone this morning, and talking with my husband instead of sobbing to him, now off to shower, then probably up to just sit in waiting room just to be near, then this evening, I will hopefully rest very well, and get my darling tomorrow! and with the continues strength of all these prayers, that is what I am counting on!
she is amazing isnt she. She lights up my soul as you can each see. I was trying sooooooo hard to be brave yesterday, but in some of those pictures you can clearly see my struggle. But to remain focus on her wonderment and love for her and of her............lighted by prayers, I found or i should say, strength found me. This time tomorrow angels, i hope to be snuggled up with my baby, snoozing in out and of the day. My heavenly Father, my face up to you in prayer, thank you Father, for working through your amazing angels gracing me with the wonder of You.

Altira

11-29-2011, 05:15 PM

I am so happy for you Stormee. So very happy. And so right you are to leave her there another night. I had forgotten about the energy issue. Keeping my Kira quiet at age ten after three major surgeries was not a problem. But with your Shy-C that's altogether a different matter and a big concern! Wise choice you made there for sure. But how thrilling also to know the doc is giving you a choice. Perfect Stormee perfect. I haven't heard one word about any concern for the pancreas, wonderful! It feels like the weight of the world has been lifted doesn't it?

But let's not forget (as Leslie said) the hard part is still to come. She will be effected by this most likely and it might not be good. But with your little girl, so young and strong I can't see how it could be very bad at all. But time will tell. That threat of cancer is gone! The threat of Cushings is gone! She's just had a ultrasound done witch in my opinion tells you everything! My Kira has a slightly enlarged heart and some liver damage from the Cushings. Those threats are still there. But with one darling little min pin there is no mention of that.

Today is a day to rejoice. You and Zack (bless his heart) and Shysie have cleared a giant hirtal and reality will be on the ground on the other side. You did the right thing.

Your duty now is to stay here and give updates of all things. You need to stay and tell future viewers the continued story so they will have some form of reference to guide them too. I hope that my experances with Kira helped in some way. But truly as you now know well ... It's the angels that flutter around here that is the most amazing thing of all!