New - worried !

[sharondentith]

Hi, My lovely dog Eric, Pug x Jack Russel,who's 13 started losing his fur - the vet took cultures and initially diagnosed Ringworm - so cream twice a day and baths twice a week - which he hated !! Then they decided it's not Ringworm, suggested Cushings and wanted a urine sample (as I have no garden that was a laugh !!) They rang me tonight - very probably Cushings - want a blood sample now!! The most hurtful thing is it's cost me £150 up to now and I can't afford the £89 for the blood test til I get paid in 10 days.............what sort of mother am I?
I've been reading the posts and - sorry - it's a depressing future for us both eh?
Sharon
ps - we're in England

[Spiceysmum]

Hi Sharon,

Welcome to the site where you will get lots of help and information. You are a great Mum as you want to do the best for Eric and no, it's not a depressing future. Sadly, my Spicey passed away a year ago but had 3 wonderful years after first being diagnosed with Cushings. She was on treatment for 18 months then went into remission for 18 months then had to go back on Vetoryl. It is a slow progressing disease and it won't hurt to wait a few weeks for blood tests. Is the fur loss the only symptom? Usually you will see that they drink alot more than usual and are very hungry as well as other symptoms such as panting and muscle weakness. I am in the UK too and vets here don't seem to like giving out test results but will if you ask them to. Do you have pet insurance? Try not to worry too much, you will get lots of advice here.
Linda

[sharondentith]

No. unfortunately I haven't got insurance - and am £150 in up to now - with the wrong diagnosis - he doesn't really drink a lot - about half a litre a day? He has big and little bald bits that have some hair growback - which I thought was the ringworm treatment working- but he keeps falling over - doesn't try to get on the bed - or can't when he does -and looks really sad most of the time. He's not over hungry - but he has tried to eat dog poo when I take him out urgh!! That's really new and different !!

[lulusmom]

Hi Sharon and welcome to the forum.

Please see my comments in blue below:


Hi, My lovely dog Eric, Pug x Jack Russel,who's 13 started losing his fur -

Dogs with cushing's usually have a distinct hair loss pattern. It usually starts on the flanks and can involve the entire torso, sparing the head and feet. Are Eric's bald spots all over or in one particular area?

the vet took cultures and initially diagnosed Ringworm - so cream twice a day and baths twice a week - which he hated !! Then they decided it's not Ringworm,

Cultures for purposes of diagnosing ringworm take well over a week to get back from the lab so is it safe to say that your vet assumed it was ringworm until he got negative test results back?

suggested Cushings and wanted a urine sample (as I have no garden that was a laugh !!) They rang me tonight - very probably Cushings - want a blood sample now!!

If the urine test done was a urine cortisol creatinine ratio (UC:CR) and they took the urine specimen with a needle into the bladder, you would expect any dog to be stressed out over that and stress can transiently increase cortisol. This is why it is always best to try to get the specimen at home under calm circumstances. Whenever I've had to get a urine specimen from home, my dog is usually as calm as can be. Me on the other hand, I am anything but calm running around with a pie tin trying to collect pee. :D

The most hurtful thing is it's cost me £150 up to now and I can't afford the £89 for the blood test til I get paid in 10 days.............what sort of mother am I?

You're a great mom and like most of us, you can only do what you can do physically and financially. If Eric has cushing's, which I greatly question based on the facts so far, you have plenty of time to get him tested. As a matter of fact, unless he starts to show symptoms that are commonly associated with cushing's, I personally wouldn't pursue any more testing for cushing's. I am more concerned with the reasons why Eric is falling over. Can you tell us more about this? Does it look like he is falling because of muscle weakness, disorientation or neurological?

I've been reading the posts and - sorry - it's a depressing future for us both eh?

No, Sharon, a cushing's diagnosis is not a death sentence nor a guarantee of a depressing future. I have two cushdogs, one diagnosed six years ago and the other almost four. The transformation with proper treatment is amazing and our cushdogs can live to their life expectancy with a very good quality of life.

ps - we're in England

Isn't it wonderful that this forum makes it possible for people all over the world to share experiences and support each other? We're very happy to have you as part of our family now. As part of the family, you don't have to do this alone. We are here to help in any way we can. I know that a lot of our members in the UK say that they can't get copies of test results from their vets but some have managed to get them so please don't be afraid to ask your vet.


Looking forward to hearing more about Eric.

Glynda

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Sharon and welcome to you and Eric! :)


.............what sort of mother am I?

I can hear the anguish in your soul in this question. I can hear your fear and grief. That's because I know how you feel. And I can answer your question - you are the sort of mother who knows your baby well, you are the sort of mother who reaches out for help when that baby is in need, you are the sort of mother who sacrifices for that baby she knows and loves so well. In my book, that makes you a wonderful mother, an exceptional mother, and a mother that Eric is lucky to have on his side.

Each of us can only do as much as we can financially, physically, and emotionally. We each do our best, give our all for our babies here. Your all may be much more than my all, and another's all may be more than yours - but we give our all. What cannot be measured or compared is the love and devotion we each give our babies and that is the most important, most effective, most powerful medicine of all. You are a mother who is rich in this vital medicine. I know, because you would never have come to us otherwise. ;)

When my Squirt was first diagnosed in March of '08, I thought my world was ending. For weeks and weeks, all I could think was that my Sweet Bebe was dying and there was nothing I could do. By the time I got here, I was a real mess. :eek: But over three years later, she is still with me, happy and strong. If you didn't know she has Cushing's, you could never tell. :)

Based on what you have said so far, it doesn't really look like Cushing's is the issue for Eric. What has your vet said about him falling over? Does he struggle to get back up and can't, or does he just lay there for a bit? Do you notice anything odd about his eyes when this happens or anything else about him that seems strange at these times? Finding out why this is happening would be where I would focus my efforts. ;)

Is he on any medications, supplements, or herbs? Sometimes these things can cause some weird effects to happen.

Has diabetes and thyroid problems been ruled out? Does he have arthritis?

The more you can tell us about Eric the more meaningful feedback we can offer. Don't worry about writing a book, we love details! :D If your vet won't give you an actual copy of his test results, ask if you can write them down in a notebook or such that you can keep at home. You'll be amazed at what you can learn by doing this - and knowledge is power.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more about you and Eric. As Glynda said, you are family now, no longer alone. Someone is here just about 24 hours a day so never hesitate to reach out. Ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand. The collective knowledge and first-hand experience you will find here is astounding! And the support is beyond compare.

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[littleone1]

Hi Sharon,

Corky and I also want to welcome you and Eric.

Glynda and Leslie have provided great feedback. This is a wonderful group. They have been for all of us. I'm glad you found us.

Terri

[sharondentith]

Thankyou - everyone,
His hairloss started with a little patch over one eye - I thought it was just a scrape. In about 3 days or so I noticed an egg shaped bald patch on his side - low down. Then he got speckles on his feet and lower legs.

Went to vet - they took bits of hair - and sent them off to be "cultured" - is that the right word? Vet rang me about 2 weeks or so later and said it was Ringworm - gave me cream - twice a day - and shampoo twice a week - I ran out of cream and went back - when they said that they would give me some more but I should've taken him back to see the vet - I must've missed that bit - upset I suppose!

Took him back a week later - there is hair re-growth in some of the bigger patches - but I asked vet if side effect to Ringworm treatment was "falling over"? he said that could be because he has cataracts - he looked into his eyes and said that they weren't too bad - and then came up with maybe Cushings!
Reference to "falling over" over the last couple of months he's tumbled down the stairs 2 or 3 times - only 4 or 5 from bottom and didn't seem hurt (that's why I asked vet to check his legs) - but sometimes out for a walk - he just falls over - once when I tugged him away from something (I felt a real brute!! A little tug - and he's on his back !!) othertimes he just falls over - not seen which bit gave way - sorry.

They then gave me a device like a childs spade (bright yellow!)- screw the vial into it as the handle to catch his wee - As I said I have no garden - and had an audience - as I scrabbled about underneath him (should've got a taller dog!!)

He's not a cuddly dog (except with my grand daughter) the twice a day with the cream and twice a week baths - upset him to say the least - I tickle his head - he licks me - and licks me - til I get fed up - then he lies as close as he can - and we chill!! (13 year habit!!) If I stroke him - he starts with the licking again - so that's what we do - we cuddle by touching!! So all this rubbing cream on and bathing has really upset him.

He struggles to jump onto my bed - and sometimes he gets off the sofa and lies on the floor now.
He just looks So Sad - breaks my heart.

p.s. (19/8/2011) Just called vet's and they've agreed to a post dated cheque - so he's in for the blood test tomorrow. Thanks everyone for your support and advice x

[MBK]

Sharon -

I also wanted to welcome you and Eric. So sorry to hear your sweet boy is having some problems. It is very stressful to know something is wrong, but not exactly what. You made me laugh - picturing you chasing Eric around for the collection and your comment that you should have gotten a taller dog! :D I can completely relate! I have 2 Jack Russells. It is good that you can keep a sense of humor. I think we all laugh at ourselves here sometimes and it does help!

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here who can answer your medical questions. And, a lot of others that will just offer friendship and support.

[Spiceysmum]

Hi Sharon,

The falling over you described sounds exactly what used to happen to my other dog Brin, who doesn't have cushings and is now nearly 15. He used to just fall over occasionally when we were at the park, sometimes he was stood still and when he went to turn around ended up in a pile on the floor. This happened a few times then, after about a year, I got up one morning and he kept falling over all of the time, losing his balance if he tried to turn, was sick a couple of times and couldn't walk properly on the wooden floor. It was frightening but it turned out to be a vestibular episode which lasted a few days and didn't require treatment. The strange thing is since then he hasn't fell over once. He does have a bit of arthritis and still doesn't co-ordinate properly on the stairs as he tries to go too fast so I don't allow him up them anymore in case he hurts himself.
Is sounds a bit like your vet is 'grabbing at straws' in trying to guess what's wrong with Eric. The blood tests might give you some idea of what could be causing some of Eric's problems but it doesn't sound typically like Cushings. I know what you mean about when they look sad, it breaks your heart. It's because they don't know what's happening to them and they can't do what they want to do.

Linda

[sharondentith]

Thanks everyone for your kind comments - he's in for the blood test tomorrow - so fingers crossed everyone x

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Sharon,

Let us know what you learn at the vets today! We are all right there with you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[sharondentith]

Well everyone the the Blood test was taken and processed today - and it's NOT Cushings ................
It seems that he has the early signs of kidney problems - so he's on a low protein diet from now on.
Also antibiotics for a urine infection which they hope will sort out the fur-loss as well.
He did test positive for ringworm - they still insist - but they don't really seem to know exactly what's causing the bald patches.
So - another urine sample (oh Joy!) and back to the vets next Saturday.
I suppose I'm not entitled to post on here anymore - but I'll keep you posted if you want me to?
Thanks again for the kind words, advice and support, it really helped - I was very upset.
Sharon

[littleone1]

Hi Sharon,

I'm glad that you were able to get positive answers as to what was really going on. Please keep us informed as to how Eric is doing. You will always be a member of our family.

Terri

[sharondentith]

Thanks. I will. He's still poorly - but a light at the end of the tunnel. I really thought I was losing him.
Sharon

[addy]

Hi Sharon,

This is great news and don't ever think you cannot post here, once you post you are family and families stick together no matter what.;)

There is interesting information on Dogaware about kidney disease and diet as well as other info.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is BRIGHT:):)

Hugs,
Addy

[sharondentith]

Thanks Addy - will keep in touch.
Just had a quick look - that's a cracking website.
Wonder sometimes about the "too much information?" though ? - was convinced he had Cushings.
Still "onwards and upwards"
Sharon x

[Harley PoMMom]

My Harley had kidney disease, which I researched a lot about, so if there is any thing I can do to help please just ask.

I also agree with the others, once you post here you are always family and are always welcomed here! ;):D

Love and hugs,
Lori

[sharondentith]

Thanks any advice on the kidney problem would be helpful.

Now I haven't got Cushings in my head - I've had another look at him - and all the fur loss is on his head, legs, side and belly - could it be possible that he's walked through something? There's none on his back at all. Any ideas?

[addy]

Hi Sharon,

There are different types of mange. If the hair loss is not from ringworm, is it possible it is a type of mange? Is there any scratching, itching at all?

Hugs,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Thanks any advice on the kidney problem would be helpful.



From what I have read, diet among other things, does have an important role with a dog that has kideny problems. A low protein diet is not recommended like it was in the past. Restriction of protein is dependent on the degree of renal failure. A diet that contains protein/s that are more digestible and are fed in moderate amounts such as meat (chicken, beef, pork, etc), eggs, fish, is now what is suggested.

Dogs with kidney disease will usually have elevated phosphorus levels so feeding a diet low in phosphorus and giving a phosphorus binder are advised.

Supplements such as CoQ10, VITAMIN E and OMEGA 3 FISH OIL may be helpful. One of the jobs of the kidneys is to eliminate excess stomach acid but once the kidneys are compromised, the build up of stomach acids increases over time so adding an acid reducer such as pepcid ac or slippery elm is recommended.

Keeping a dog with kidney issues hydrated is very important too.

Hope this helps and if you have any other questions, please ask.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

http://www.netplaces.com/natural-health-for-dogs/kidney-disease/what-is-kidney-failure.htm


The signs of kidney insufficiency include:

*Anemia
*Appetite loss
*Bad breath
*Dehydration
*Dull coat, hair loss, and heavy shedding
*Excessive thirst and urination
*High blood levels of metabolic waste
*Lethargy and depression
*Mouth and tongue ulcers
*Vomiting and diarrhea

With chronic kidney disease, there's a shortage of healthy nephrons to adequately filter and reabsorb excess water back into the bloodstream. Dogs with this condition drink copious amounts of water just to maintain an adequate volume of fluids in the body, and produce large amounts of dilute urine.

Hi Sharon,

Heavens, honey! Not entitled?! Oh my goodness! Of course you are entitled to post here...you are almost required to post here now! :D You wandered into our little family and now you and Eric belong here with us for as long as you wish...and we certainly hope you will stay! Do go an find some kidney specific support but know in your heart of hearts, that we always want to know what is going on and will be more than happy to help in any way we can. In short, you can go visit elsewhere, but you belong here. :p;)

The link above lists hair loss as a sign of kidney insufficiency but doesn't give any pattern that is common in these pups. Sometimes the pattern of hair loss can be an indicator of the cause.

Lori is right on the mark about proteins and phosphorus. One thing you want to avoid is organ meats as they are typically very high in phosphorus, as are bones and dairy products. I have a friend who is dealing with kidney issues in her Ridgeback who was a canine nutritional consultant but has stopped consulting. She has a blog about Tina and I will find it for you and post the link. She has studied nutrition for decades and is in the process of getting her Holistic degree.

Monica Segal is a practicing consultant who does great work, too. She can be reached here -

Monica Segal
http://www.monicasegal.com/

Monica has a nutrition forum as well where you can talk with her and others about diet for Eric -

Monica’s discussion group
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Kitchen/

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[sharondentith]

Thanks for the diet advice - I'll bring it up when I go back to the vets on Saturday - as regards the hair loss - no he doesn't scratch or lick the patches, and as I said there's speckles on his feet - patches at the top of his little legs and his lower belly and face - nothing on his higher side, back or tail. It really looks like he's walked through something. There is some regrowth on the large patch on his side/ belly but not on the speckles.
Thanks again for all your interest - I really do appreciate all the help.
The vet's hoping that the antibiotics for the urine infection will clear up the skin complaint as a side effect.

[sharondentith]

Hi everyone,
Just an update -the antibiotics seem to be working - he's a LOT better - in fact I'm ashamed to realise how ill he was - when it goes slowly - you don't see it I suppose?
He dragged me over the grass today - to say "Hello" to one of his pals - he hasn't done that for at least a month!! His hair is growing back slowly - but I'm not sure that there's a couple of new patches ready to come through! Fingers crossed - it's a No !!!
He loves the new food - but he does seem to be still hungry - I'll get the urine test in on Saturday (OH JOY!!) and see what they say - probably be another blood test to find out how the kidneys are doing?
I've told him that when he's better - he has to get a paper round - to pay for all this !!
I'm just so pleased - I've got my pal back!!
Thankyou all for helping me through this - I was so worried
Sharon

[addy]

Glad to hear your pup is on the mend, Sharon:D:D

Hope you continue to see improvement.


I've told him that when he's better - he has to get a paper round - to pay for all this !!

My Zoe needs more than a paper route:D:D:D:D:D:D Unless she gets big tips for being cute;)



Hugs,
Addy