Roxee, 13 1/2 y.o. Shih-Tzu/Lhasa mix (July 10, 2009, Roxee has crossed the bridge) [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

Roxee's Dad

04-16-2009, 04:40 PM

Hi All,
First I want to thank Natalie for the opportunity to post here and keep track of our cush support family.

Roxee had a bout with the squirts (No offense to Leslie's baby):p diahrea yesterday morning and of course I freaked because she is on Trilo, but then her sister Rozee (littermate) also came down with diahrea. Crappy to wish on Rozee, but made me feel better that it wasn't the Trilo. Tried PeptoBismol, pumpkin and Patty cooked up some bland chicken and pasty rice but to no avail. Last night was the squirty poop night from hell. :eek::eek::eek:

Won't go into gory details but the washing machine has been going non stop all day and it's not over yet. We took Roxee and Rozee to the vet first thing this morning. Found some nasty bacteria and blood in there stool samples.
Gave them both a shot of Vitamin B-12 and Bicillin. Follow on by 5 days of Metronidazole liquid and 5 days of Amforal liquid.

Needless to say Roxee did not get her Trilo this morning and probably skip tomorrow if she still doesn't feel good.

We have 4 furbabies in this house and only 2 got the squirts. Thinking it might have been the pumpkin. I in all my wisdom decided to add a little pumpkin to there late night snack and used a spoon that had dog food on it. Patty found this in the pumkin can and told me that's a no-no. Thought she got it all out but maybe the dogfood interacted with the pumkin overnight and caused this nasty bacteria. so why only Rox and Roz. Because the first 2 spoons from the can went into Rox and Roz's dish before Mickee and Littlebit got fed. So it could be the sisters got the contaminated pumpkin and Mick and L'bit got off scott free. I Hope! Can't imagine 4 dogs running around here with the squirts.:eek:

John (Roxee's Dad)
PS -Wanted to thank Leslie and Glynda for helping me with this on the PM option. I was desperate.

MiniSchnauzerMom

04-16-2009, 05:12 PM

Hi All,
Last night was the squirty poop night from hell. :eek::eek::eek:

Can't imagine 4 dogs running around here with the squirts.:eek:
John (Roxee's Dad)

Try 3 cats and 1 dog exploding throughout the night.... phewww!...arrrrghhh! :eek: :eek: Happened to me a few years back so I can definitely sympathize with you, John.

Wise move to discontinue Roxee's Trilo while she's not feeling well. Hope Roxee and Rozee have a rapid recovery and no more "running" around. :D I remember that Roxee had a UTI, had been in misery and was being treated. That's all done and over with now with no re-visits?

Give all your furkids a scritchie from me!

Louise

Squirt's Mom

04-16-2009, 05:14 PM

Hi John,

So glad Roxee and Rozee got some antibiotics and hope they will be "solid" once again real soon. Just keep Mick and L'Bits out of firing range! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

PS. Ya know, now that you have put this "squirt" business out here in public, I can't promise what my baby's reaction in gonna be....:p

Roxee's Dad

04-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Hi Louise,

Wise move to discontinue Roxee's Trilo while she's not feeling well. Hope Roxee and Rozee have a rapid recovery and no more "running" around. I remember that Roxee had a UTI, had been in misery and was being treated. That's all done and over with now with no re-visits?

UTI seems to be better, she's not trying to run from her own pee anymore. Her twinkie is staying cleaner now. Will keep watching her and may have her checked again at her next stim.

Leslie, Tell Squirt I'm sorry but I couldn't resist.

John (Roxee's Dad)

John II

04-16-2009, 11:23 PM

Hi John,

Poor things - I hope they recover quickly!

John II

Roxee's Dad

04-17-2009, 10:56 PM

Hi all,

Well the poop squirts are gone and they both have there apetite back:) The miracle of modern medicine.:D

Wanted to mention that Roxee has not had her trilo for 2 days now and I was really expecting the panting to return but she slept soundly thru the night and no panting today or any change for that matter. I thought that to be strange.

They were both bathed and groomed by their favorite groomer (me) and believe it, they needed it. :eek::eek::eek: Finally washed the last load of towels and sheets. We should be back to normal.

Will restart the Trilo again tomorow morning.

Once again, no offense to Leslie's baby, hope she can forgive me:p:)

John (Roxee's Dad)

John II

04-18-2009, 11:22 AM

Hi John,

Well that's good news!

But I don't know if the lack of Cushing's symptoms is also good news, or perhaps a hint that the cortisol could be on the low end of the scale?

Hopefully one of the more experienced members has the answer.

Best wishes,

John II

Rusty's Mom

04-18-2009, 11:48 AM

John,

Glad they are on the mend! Hopefully your other two will stay healthy!

MJ

Barney's Mom

04-18-2009, 05:28 PM

Roxee's Dad

04-20-2009, 09:15 PM

Hi All,
Just a quick question:

Has anybody used Denosyl to help liver function? Does anybody have anything good or bad about it.

Note: Roxee is already taking Trilo, Soloxine and Milk Thistle.

Thanks
John (Roxee's Dad)

John II

04-21-2009, 06:28 AM

Hi John,

Is Roxeee doing OK?

I've got no helpful information because Angelina and I are trudging along the same path as you and Roxee - but about 20 paces behind! :)

I just wanted to ask you about the Milk Thistle:
1) at what stage during treatment did Roxee start taking it?
2) what dose are you giving Roxee?

I'm just thinking it may be something I should start Angelina on.

Best wishes, thought and prayers,
From John II and Angelina I

Roxee's Dad

04-21-2009, 10:39 AM

Hi John,

Is Roxeee doing OK?
She is doing so much better, She was off the trilo for 2 days and hadn't pooped in 3 days, lost about 1 -1/2 pounds, down to 12 pounds. I swear she is stronger yesterday and today than I have seen her in a lng time.
I've got no helpful information because Angelina and I are trudging along the same path as you and Roxee - but about 20 paces behind! :)
What info are you looking for? The twice a day dosing?

I just wanted to ask you about the Milk Thistle:
1) at what stage during treatment did Roxee start taking it?
Roxee started taking milk Thistle about 3 months ago, it seemed to be a popular treatment amongst many here for liver regeneration and Roxee's liver ALK numbers have always been pretty high.
2) what dose are you giving Roxee?
1/2 tablet of "Marin" for small dogs. Marin is the brand name and they sell tablets for different size dogs. It contains 105 IU of vitamin E, 24mg of Silybin and 17mg of Zinc.

I'm just thinking it may be something I should start Angelina on.
I have to run now, but I got the info from Glynda or Leslie. I'll see if I can find the pdf file and send it to you tonight (My time)

Best wishes, thought and prayers,
From John II and Angelina I

Best wishes, happy & Positive thoughts and prayers to you and Angelina. Hang in there it takes patience and time.
John (Roxee's Dad)

John II

04-27-2009, 03:41 AM

Hi John,

Now it's my turn to do the checking-up-on :)

Is Roxeee doing OK? And how are you doing?

I read, that is to say, I think I read that you were considering changing Roxeee's meds (in another thread) is that the case?

Best wishes, thought and prayers,
From John II and Angelina I

gpgscott

04-27-2009, 10:17 AM

Hi John,

Don't think I have checked in on you here, sorry it is springtime and my business is very demanding this time of year and of course the issue with cc.net has been absorbing online time for me.

Hoping Roxee is continuing to do well on the Trilo.

Scott

Roxee's Dad

04-27-2009, 11:54 PM

Hi All,
Just an update on my thinking or overthinking process.:(

Roxee is doing okay. I just have been reading so much and gaining new information from the many experiences here, the questions, the responses and so on. So with all that I am looking at my Roxee girl and just wondering if her meds while helping her symptoms are causing other symptoms to appear. If yes, then I have been contemplating what course of action I may take next.

Weight loss - we are feeding her 4 times a day to maintain her weight and try to increase it a little bit. The diahrea bout brought her down to 12 pounds. Her fighting weight should be around 15 to 16 pounds. Today she is at 13.

Weakness - As some of you know, she was dx'd over 2 years ago and went untreated until the begining of Feb this year. Sept 2008, she was able to walk up and down the ramp leading from the doggy door. She went downhill quickly since then. In Dec, she wasn't able to stand and pee or poop without falling over and by Jan it seems she has lost most of her eyesight. Today she is able to stand while doing her business, is walking better but that is relative to last December. She still has trouble lifting her front paws and the tops of her paws drag the ground as she walks. Her hind end seems to work seperately from her front legs and are stiff as pegs. She still falls over from time to time and can absolutely not walk on hardwood floors, it looks like she is trying to ice skate.

Hair - is growing back.:) Potbelly is completely gone.:)

Based on Glynda's experiences with the time it takes to regain enough muscle to walk and get around, I am holding off any decisions to change meds / UTK panel until the July / Aug timeframe unless something drastic happens before then. If we want to do the UTK, I have to think about what will it do to Roxee being off the meds for the 30 day wash out period.

I am just wondering if she has something else going on like maybe a stroke that went undetected, CCD as she often seems lost and or maybe it's just confusing for her since she lost most of her eyesight. She has a hard time just finding the food under her nose and bobs her head up and down until she finds the right height to eat and drink.:confused:

Maybe I am just being impatient, just don't know. As you all know, this is such a difficult and confusing experience for both the cush pup and the cush parent. Thanks for letting me voice (text) my thoughts.

Still the bottom line is that she really is better today than she was before we started the meds.:D

All the Best to you and you pups.
John (Roxee's Dad)

MiniSchnauzerMom

04-28-2009, 07:50 PM

John,

I, for one, am glad you shared your thoughts about Roxee.

As you all know, this is such a difficult and confusing experience for both the cush pup and the cush parent. I certainly agree with you here!! I personally don't think you're being too impatient, just a concerned parent. Roxee has had a number of things going on and all any of us want is to see our babies feeling well.

I definitely relate to your concerns and thoughts when it comes to the possibility of some unknown ??? going on. That's how I feel about Munchie, my all to frequently misdiagnosed mystery dog. He's managed to keep all his hair...it's my hair that's falling out at this point! :(

I'm glad that your Roxee is better today than she was before you started the meds and hope she continues to improve.

Louise

nikkismom

04-29-2009, 10:18 AM

Hi, John, I certainly understand your frustration.I have been very uncertain since I started Nikki's treatment in November. Other than symptoms going away, she seems to feel worse since she's been on lysodren. She seems to have a hard time walking, so mostly sleeps. When she is up she feels pretty good, but that's not often. She is just now recovering from the stress of us leaving her for 6 days.When I had her stimmed right before leaving her post number was 8.7.When we got back she was so weak. I gave her a pred and she perked up, even though I know her number is now alot higher. She still isn't starving and doesn't finish her dinner. I need to have her stimmed but know my vet wants to get her number to 5, which I know will make her feel terrible.I wonder if this may be because when we started her post number was a high 50. My goal was always to have her as comfortable as possible, and when she's where she is supposed to be with cortisol level, she is not comfortable.This is just so hard! It always helps to have company in this battle for answers. Sharon

Roxee's Dad

04-29-2009, 04:08 PM

Hi All,

And then you have days like today.... Roxee woke up a little earlier this morning:(. Gave me the little yipes and moans to let me know she was up and needed to go outside. (Roxee and Rozee have always slept in bed with us) Took her out and she was trucking around so much stronger than the last couple of days. No falling over today and just all around a stronger day.:D

Be nice if I could find some consistency in her strong and weak days.:confused:

John II

I read, that is to say, I think I read that you were considering changing Roxeee's meds (in another thread) is that the case?

Just thinking outloud - Check my earlier post, it is on my mind but too early, need to give it a chance. Once a day, twice a day???? If I could see a difference between am and pm, I would consider twice a day but with Roxee it more like a few good days then a few not so good days.:confused:

Louise -I so am Looking forward to making this Friday night a margarita night.:D:D:D

Sharron- yes it is difficult, if it was easy, we wouldn't be here. Wouldn't it have been nice if we all here became friends due to just our love for our healthy pups and not because of cushings. BTW - From the many threads I have read, some cushparents find there pups do better on cortisol a little higher than the preferred range. How many times have I read that "My cush pup hasn't read the manual on cushings":)

BTW - For those of you that know LittleBit, She was spayed yesterday and of course when I picked her up I felt terrible. Poor little girl was just out of it, drooling and whimpering. Gave me that look like "what did you do to me?" I felt so bad:( I feel like I betrayed her trust in me.:(

All the best to you and your pups.
John (Roxee's Dad)

Squirt's Mom

04-29-2009, 06:12 PM

Hi John,

Crys was spayed a few weeks back and I got the same look. :( She was back on her feet in no time, but I still felt like a heel, especially when she couldn't eat that morning! I never want her to face the fear of no food ever again. :( Crys got extra, extra lovings that nite and for the next few days, but the surgery didn't slow her down a bit except for that first nite. She was back in full out form the next day! :eek::D

It's good to hear that Roxee is doing good today. I guess we just have to be happy for the good days and remember them on the bad ones. Easier said than done for a cush parent! :rolleyes::p

You're such a good dad, John, and Roxee, Rozee, Lil'Bits and Mic are all lucky to have you, and Patty, on their side. You have done an amazing job to learn as much as you have in the short time you've been around. Keep up the good work!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Truffa's Mom

04-30-2009, 01:12 AM

Just checking on you.

You have such a wonderful heart!!!!. A good day is something EXTRAORDINARY for a cush parent and a cush pup. We will cross our paws for more good days to come for sweet Roxee.

LittleBit will be up and running in a flash. Just one of those sleep overs on mom's and dad bed, and everything will be forgotten.

Please have a wonderful weekend, with or without margaritas.

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Roxee's Dad

05-15-2009, 07:16 PM

Hi All,
Well it's time for a Roxee update:

ACTH Stim Test:
Yesterday May 14, 2009
40mg Trilo
Pre: 0.7
Post 1.7 (within range, not sure a celebration is in order)

March 12, 2009
40mg Trilo
Pre: 0.7
Post: 5.2

Feb 12, 2009
30mg Trilo
Pre: 0.9
Post: 10.2

They also ran a short bloodpanel, Can't believe her improvement in ALK and ALP:):D:D:D:D

ALK 213 (23-212)
ALT 57 (10-100)

In 2006:
ALK 705 :eek: (10-150)

You can check all Roxee's records and history in an updated excel file at http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=reY3q8afJtafT0A0-ejnkOg
At the bottom of the excel page are tabs for acth, urine, bloodtest, weight and so one. Records go back to 2005.

Yesterday was stim day and it was rough with the panting and all. She recovered nicely by evening. She was very strong last night and very strong today:D

So is the cortisol going to continue to drop:confused: or stablize? I guess we have to continue to watch her for symptoms of too low cortisol:( I guess I'll keep my twitcher turned on:)

Bad news: Roxee is down a half pound to 12.2:eek::eek::eek: She is eating 3 to 4 meals a day, get's little to no exercise:confused::confused: Are the sex hormones involved:confused::confused:

It looks like all her bio chemistry is lookin good but I am lacking the sex hormone information. Wish I had gotten the UTK in the begining:( still may have to consider doing it. Will discuss with our vet next week.

That's it for now. Maybe I will have a margarita tonight:)

Belly Rubs to all your furBabies.
John (Roxee's Dad)

BestBuddy

05-15-2009, 07:28 PM

Hi John,
I would be a little concerned that Roxee's stim was too low......
In the Vetoryl flowchart it says for a post less than 50 nmo/l (1.8) to stop treatment for 7 days and restart at a lower dose.
I would be keeping a close watch on her like you already are doing. Was your vet concerned about the low number?
Jenny

John II

05-15-2009, 11:51 PM

Hi John & Roxee,

There's always something, isn't there?
Hope Roxee's doing OK.

Best wishes,

Uncle John and Cousin Angelina :)

Roxee's Dad

05-16-2009, 12:24 AM

Hi Jenny and Brother John,
Yes I am concerned and will watch her very closely. Vet said it looks good and to keep her on the 40 mg per day. Will talk to him early next week.

But the weirdist thing, Roxee is stronger, today and tonight than she has been in months. Just truckin along in the yard.:D:D:D and to think, two days ago I was begining to give up hope:( as she could barely stand. We think she may have hurt her front leg sliding on the very few bare spots on the floor. We've pretty much put throw rugs everywhere she walks but somehow she manages to find a bare spot.:rolleyes:

Well, nighty night time.
Belly rubs to all your pups
John (Roxee's Dad)

Roxee's Dad

05-18-2009, 11:46 PM

Hi All,
Sent my vet a fax yesterday, thought I would document my concerns and questions in writing giving him a chance to read it and prepare for our coversation. I expressed my concerns about weight loss, continued lowering stim results, UTK and a few other items. He called me this evening, thought the fax thing was a great idea:) and he agreed to contact Dr. Oliver to discuss Roxee's case and his opinion's on the next steps if any we should take with Roxee.

In the Vetoryl flowchart it says for a post less than 50 nmo/l (1.8) to stop treatment for 7 days and restart at a lower dose.
I would be keeping a close watch on her like you already are doing. Was your vet concerned about the low number?

Hi Jenny, I read that the number was 1.45 :confused: So now I'm confused.

Belly rubs to all your furr babies.
John (Roxee's Dad)

BestBuddy

05-19-2009, 05:11 AM

Hey John,
There are so many numbers out there but the one I was talking about was in the Dechra product info for Vetoryl. The conversion is 27.59 so 50nmo/l comes to 1.8.(I hope my figures are right). Many dogs go below this number and are fine but if you have some strange symptoms at this or lower number then I would seriously consider the 7 day break.
Jenny

labblab

05-19-2009, 08:08 AM

Hi Jenny, I read that the number was 1.45 :confused: So now I'm confused.

Belly rubs to all your furr babies.
John (Roxee's Dad)
I think I can solve the mystery...:)

Up until just the last few months, we had been depending upon Dechra's UK published guidelines in making trilostane treatment and monitoring recommendations. In fact, Jenny was instrumental in obtaining and scanning a hard-to-find, detailed informational brochure for us (thank you again, Jenny!). That 2007 U.K. brochure and flowchart did list a "lower" limit of 50 nmol/l (or 1.8 ug/dl).

However, the newly released 2009 U.S. monitoring flowchart has shifted the "lower" limit down to 40 nmol/l (or 1.45 ug/dl). So I guess we must assume that is Dechra's most current recommendation.

http://www.dechra-us.com/File/vetoryl_Treatment_and_Monitoring_Flowchart.pdf

Hope that clears up the confusion!

Marianne

BestBuddy

05-19-2009, 08:29 AM

Yep that's me, always behind the times.
John, I hope I haven't confused you. I don't like reading off the computer so I have been using the hard copy of the 2007 brochure. I guess I had better get with the program and get myself updated.:o
Jenny

labblab

05-19-2009, 09:28 AM

Regardless of the slight modification of the numbers, your observation was still "right on," Jen -- Roxee's test result is down there at the low end. So your advice remains well taken, to be watching her closely. And you are still very much with the program! :p

Marianne

Roxee's Dad

05-19-2009, 10:07 AM

Hi Marianne and Jenny,
It's really good that you are keeping me on my toes. Either way, it's a reference number and it is low, and as has been said, every pup is different.

Roxee is being pretty steady on her feet lately but her weight loss is worrisome. She has been very, very picky about what she wants to eat. I can't believe she gave up soft food for kibble. So now she will eat some "Taste of the Wild" Salmon formula. We'll see how long that last:(

She is still sleeping thru the night, I actually had to wake her up this morning. So we decided to not give her any Trilo today and see how she does thruogh the day and evening. Might skip a 2nd day too and see how it goes from there.

Hope the vet gets to discuss Roxee case with Dr. Oliver at the UTK.

I really rely on your inputs and opinions, that is why I post, so keep it up.:)

Belly rubs to your pups.
John (Roxee's Dad)

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-19-2009, 03:26 PM

John,

Haven't got any opinions to give, just wanted to drop by and see how Roxee was doing. I also have had a weight loss issue with Munchie in the past so do know how worrisome that can be.

I hope your vet will be discussing Roxee's case with Dr. Oliver too. I've not had the pleasure, but everything I've ever heard about him has been very positive and the fact that he so readily responds to members here, that says a lot in itself.

Give some extra scritchies to your furbabies from me!!

Louise

Truffa's Mom

05-19-2009, 04:45 PM

Hi Roxee and John

Wanted to see how your baby was doing and I was worried about her low appetite and weight loss. Hope your vet get in touch with Dr. Oliver at the UTK.

Big smooches to lovely Roxee

Marcela & the Choco Labs

Roxee's Dad

05-19-2009, 09:27 PM

Hi All,
Roxee's doing okay today, thanks for asking. We purchased some not so great canned food today and she munched down. (no offense to Munchie):p

No Trilo today. Panting has increased, don't know if she is really tired from her very short walks or in combination with the warmer weather. She would pant some even on the Trilo. Maybe it's time to give her a short break and gain some weight which I am hoping turns into muscle mass.

The only real downside over the last couple of weeks is her very picky apetite. If it smells good to her she'll eat it. Seems to change day to day.

Also considering checking her T4 for thyroid. See if the effects of Trilo has affected her thyroid. May need a reduction in soloxine. Hope so.

Will keep you posted and I'll let you know what the vet comes back with.

John (Roxee's Dad)

forscooter

05-19-2009, 09:34 PM

Hey John,

Just checking on you! I don't have much advice to give other than to say that when Bailey goes through the picky eating thing, I stick his food with a little warm water in the microwave for about 15 seconds. Not enough to make it hot....but it seems to release what I refer to as "The Aroma"....and he eats much better. Not sure if that will help with Roxee or not.

I think when any pup is not feeling well it is wise to hold the med just for a little bit. I tend to err on the side of caution myself. I am also glad you'll get some input from Dr. Oliver....he helped me lots! I love him!

A thyroid check is also probably a good idea. If that's off, that can give anyone the yuckies....human and canine alike!

Hoping things perk up very soon!
Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Meant to add that Munchie's favoritest thing is munching so I think he'll be fine with your reference! I hear his favorite thing to munch is his momma!

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-19-2009, 10:21 PM

We purchased some not so great canned food today and she munched down. (no offense to Munchie)

No offense taken. :D :D Beth is right...Mom is a favorite for munching but his ultimate favorite is a vet - any vet!

Funny that you mention Soloxine....I had started to say why Munchie's weight went down in my post and then decided not to - duh. It was from the dose of Soloxine he was receiving - too much. In 6 months he lost almost 3 lbs. :eek: Lowered the dose and increased his food by 10% and his weight has remained stable. I've got him trained to sit on a baby scale so I can check his weight every week just in case I need to do any food adjustments. What us pup owners won't do out of love for our babies!!!

Hope it is something as simple as lowering the dose of Soloxine and that her appetite will improve so she can get a tad more padding on her doggy bod. :D

Louise

AlisonandMia

05-19-2009, 10:47 PM

Beth is right...Mom is a favorite for munching but his ultimate favorite is a vet - any vet!

He's pretty partial to a quick bite of vet tech too, isn't he?

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-20-2009, 12:39 AM

He's pretty partial to a quick bite of vet tech too, isn't he?

Ahhh, now that you mention it, Alison,.....yes! ;)

L

P.S. John - I'm one of those Moms who owns dog clippers and does something that kind of resembles grooming....mainly because I'm afraid that a professional groomer would most certainly be added to Munchie's "nip list" :eek: :eek: :eek:

Rusty's Mom

05-20-2009, 02:03 AM

John,

Wishing you and Roxee the best!! I hope her numbers, her energy and her coordination all continue to improve.

You're in my thoughts and prayers!

MJ

fivebichons

05-22-2009, 01:46 AM

Hello John and Roxee,

We are wishing you the best. Get up...look in the mirror and say "THIS WILL BE A GOOD DAY." Start every day off on the right foot and take it from there.

Hugs to you both from our house to yours,
Heidi,
Marco & Sophie
...Friskie, Lucky, Cheri & Snicky from Heaven...

Roxee's Dad

05-24-2009, 12:20 PM

Hi All,
In my continued quest to understand Cushings I was reading in the resources section and am a bit confused (nothing new for most of us)

This link and excerpt below states that Trilo may be a ....especially for dogs suffering from sex steroid imbalance.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=42&d=1242114228

Trilostane
Trilostane (Vetoryl; Arnolds Pharmaceuticals, UK) is an
orally administered competitive inhibitor of 3-beta-hydroxysteroid
dehydrogenase, the enzyme that mediates the conversion
of pregnenolone to progesterone and, hence, its endproducts
(cortisol, aldosterone, and androstenedione) in the
adrenals. Studies in dogs with HAC have shown that
trilostane is an effective steroid inhibitor that is associated
with minimal side effects.43-45 Although currently unavailable
in the United States, trilostane may prove to be a reasonable
alternative to mitotane therapy for HAC in dogs, particularly
those suffering from sex steroid imbalance.

And this study states that Trilo always increases hydroxprogesterone and freq. increases estradol and androstenedione:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198

8) Trilostane. Available in the UK and Europe, but not approved in the U.S. The drug can be used in the U.S. with FDA approval (see Plumb’s Formulary, 5th Ed., pg 778 & 886). Note: trilostane always increases 17-hydroxyprogesterone, and frequently increases estradiol and androstenedione as well. LysodrenTM may be preferred for Atypical Cushing’s cases. FURTHER NOTE. Care should be used in switching from trilostane to LysodrenTM. Allow adequate time for either drug’s effects on adrenal tissues to subside before making a change in treatment. (E.g., one month off drug; return of clinical signs of Cushing’s; or post-ACTH stim cortisol levels within normal range).

My continued quest to understand Roxee's sypmtoms and many other's here seems to bring up some of controversies amongst our vets or am I missing something here.

lulusmom

05-24-2009, 01:19 PM

Hi John,

I certainly understand your confusion as I was not understanding why UTK continued to include Trilostane on their treatment option page. I wrote to Dr. Oliver and asked him to clarify. His response below was as exactly what I expected to hear and supports most of our assumptions that Trilostane should not be used if a dog has elevated intermediate/sex hormones. I hope this clears up some of your confusion.

If it is known that Trilostane "always" increases one or more of the sex hormones,

1) do you know why Dechra (manufacturer of Vetoryl) has not included this incredibly important information in their brochure/inserts;

>>>The feeling in Europe is that this is due to the very first pre-cursors in the adrenal pathway (pregnenolones that have minimal bioactivity) cross-reacting in assays. I don't agree with this, since our assays are very specific (should not cross-react with pregnenolones), and dogs often have a re-turn of clinical signs over time when on trilostane and the sex steroids are increased. Since Dechra is headquartered in Great Britain, they subscribe to the European thinking.

2) how long do you think it will take for the medical community to catch on and include full adrenal panels in their diagnostic protocol, especially when treatment with Trilostane is being contemplated;

>>>Our lab is the only one that does the steroid panels, and we gain new customers all the time, but it will take several more years. Also, some prominent veterinary endocrinologists in the U.S. don't subscribe to the value of our adrenal panel, and these people carry alot of weight with many veterinarians.

3) why does UTK still list Trilostane as a treatment option?

>>>We list it because alot of veterinarians are using it; and many feel they are getting good clinical responses. We do list on our treatment option sheet the fact that trilostene increases sex hormone concentrations.

I think our experience here is certainly in keeping with Dr. Oliver's research. I know that my cushdog, Lulu, is a perfect example of what Trilostane does to a dog with already elevated intermediate hormones. After two years on the drug, her intermediates were hugely elevated. Because of my own experience, I will never waver in my opinion that Trilostane should not be prescribed without first running a full adrenal panel, especially if the dog is a breed or a mix of a breed that is predisposed to adrenal hormone imbalances.

Glynda

Roxee's Dad

05-24-2009, 01:41 PM

Hi Glynda,
Thanks, and yes, I totally agree that the UTK panel should always be performed. Considering the cost of a confirmed diagnosis in the first place, it's really "only":o an additional 135 or so. And... it would give me / cush parents so much more peace of mind in the what if's. Especially when using the Trilo.

I remember your and Lulu's story and that is what keeps me wondering. Hope our vet does contact Dr. O and get his opinion based on Roxee's history. Too bad we don't get a do over without wasting all that precious time:(

Rusty's Mom

05-24-2009, 03:10 PM

John,

It's all so confusing, isn't it! That's where this forum can be so very helpful! My positive thoughts are still coming your way!

MJ

ladysmom06

05-27-2009, 03:29 PM

Hi John,

Just checking to see how Roxee is doing? Is she still giving you trouble with eating and how is the panting? Lady was on trilo for 2 yrs and did really well on it. After being on it for a couple months she turned on her food - that was a big problem with her also being diabetic. I did some minor changes with her food and never had a problem again. Also she would still pant a little in the summer when it was really hot. . Hugs to the two of you.

Luv,
Lynne and Angel Lady 7/98-3/09

Roxee's Dad

05-27-2009, 04:28 PM

Hi Lynne,
Actually Roxee is doing okay, thanks for asking:). A few days ago not so good, then I get depressed, the next day, she is up and trucking around and I am all happy again.

The food thing, we just keep a variety going. She'll eat beef in the morning and not want it for Lunch, so we go to chicken and she'll eat it and then it's back to beef for dinner. I thought sure she would get diarrhea from all the changes but it's as solid as a brick:o:D

I think the panting is from the warmer weather and higher humidity. She doesn't pant so much in the house. So another good day to remember:D

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-27-2009, 04:44 PM

Hi John,

Am glad Roxee is doing ok today. Isn't it just the truth....the pup does well and all is well with the world...but if the pup is having problems all goes to "you know where in a handbag!!!!"

Hooray for you that alternating the chicken/beef routine is working so she keeps getting those calories. Bricks, in this case, are preferred. :D How's her weight...maintaining or hopefully gaining???

Take care,
Louise

Squirt's Mom

05-27-2009, 05:05 PM

Hi John,

Glad things are going good for Roxee! :) Always nice to hear!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Rusty's Mom

05-27-2009, 08:59 PM

Amen! Glad to hear it!

MJ

Roxee's Dad

05-27-2009, 09:17 PM

Hooray for you that alternating the chicken/beef routine is working so she keeps getting those calories. Bricks, in this case, are preferred.

She's is about a 3 on Jenny's "Bristol Stool Chart" :D

Slightly gaining weight but at a good pace.:D

frijole

05-27-2009, 09:31 PM

:eek: Not the stool chart! LOL Glad your baby is doing better John. Its tough isn't it? If only they could talk. Hugs, Kim

forscooter

05-27-2009, 09:39 PM

I suggested a home testing "Cush-O-Meter" when I first started....it is an invention waiting to happen! A little bit of blood and whammo....too much med? too much food? too much water? or too little? too much fat? and then of course, it would come with hard and fast instructions on what to do! Now don't you think this is so worthwhile? Much more important than figuring out the common cold....sneeze sneeze...these are our DOGS we're talking about!

However, a talking dog would help...isn't that movie "Bolt" about a talking dog as long as he has his collar? Or am I delirious again??

Anyway, I am glad Roxee is having a better time!!! And the Poop Chart rules! We should have it hanging prominently in all our homes!

Love and hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

SachiMom

05-27-2009, 09:45 PM

it's as solid as a brick:o:D

I see the poop patrol is out and running!!!! Lucky flashlights aren't needed.! :D

Glad to hear Roxee is doing well.

~Mary Ann

Truffa's Mom

05-29-2009, 06:39 PM

Oh dear..the Poop patrol!!!!:p:p:p
Good news I see.... Yey Roxee is so good when you have a good day!!!

It's funny when we Cush parents measure the amount of happiness and silliness by knowing inexplicably facts about our pups stool!!!!:):) and we have the measure tool and everything. Mybe if we keep poking into Beth, Louise, Glenda's (among others) minds, i'll bet they wil be able to create the perfect "Cush-O-Meter".

Happy to hear that Roxee is doing so much better!!!

ladysmom06

05-30-2009, 10:09 AM

Hi John,

The food thing, we just keep a variety going. She'll eat beef in the morning and not want it for Lunch, so we go to chicken and she'll eat it and then it's back to beef for dinner. I thought sure she would get diarrhea from all the changes but it's as solid as a brick

I think the panting is from the warmer weather and higher humidity. She doesn't pant so much in the house. So another good day to remember

I use to home cook for Lady - a few days it would be ground turkey and then I would go to ground beef mixed with the other things I used. When she turned on her food after being on the trilo I started mixing the 2 meats together and she loved it - never had a problem after that.

Lady only panted when the weather was really hot - never in the house unless she was laying by the front door in the summer when the sun was beating in.

Hugs to you and Roxee.

Luv,
Lynne and Angel Lady 7/98-3/09

Roxee's Dad

06-07-2009, 11:54 PM

Just an update on Roxee.

She has been doing well for these last few weeks. Increased hair growth, more steady on her feet. Appetite is good. We feed her 4 or 5 smaller meals per day now.

She is sleeping very well now. I sometimes have to wake her up at 7:30 or 8:00 am. Although I am thankful for the extra sleep bc she used to be up at 5 or 6 am, I sometimes wonder why she is sleeping so long. I hope its part of the healing process during her long and restful sleep. First thing I do is carry her outside and I just barely put her on the ground and she’s poop’n.

Her last stim was mid of May and her post was 1.7, she was becoming a bit weak and lost her appetite, I took her off the trilo for 5 days to see if she would get her appetite back and gain some strength.(Thanks to my friends here that kept me on my toes) I also discussed a lower dose with the vet. We are now on 35 mg of trilo per day. She started in Feb with 30 mg, post stim was 10.2, increased the trilo to 40 mg and her post stim went down to 5.2 in March, continued at 40 mg and her post stim went down to 1.7 in May. So now on 35 mg per day.

Happy News – Usually when I get home and she is sleeping, she will wake up when she smells me in the room. (I promise I do shower daily) She doesn’t see so well anymore and really is learning to depend on her sense of smell. So when she does smell me, she let’s out a whelp or a moan and I pick her up. Well on Saturday evening when I got home, she smelled or sensed that I was in the room and as I bent over to pick her up, she wagged her tail for the first time in over 6 or 7 months. My wife and I were speechless.

So that’s it, life is good for now and I am enjoying every minute I can with all my furbabies.

MiniSchnauzerMom

06-08-2009, 12:16 AM

John,

I'm glad Roxee is showing improvement and feeling so much better than she was (and also that she has such a good "sniffer" and can sniff out her Dad!)

I was in the room and as I bent over to pick her up, she wagged her tail for the first time in over 6 or 7 months.
Ahhhhh, warms my heart to read this. :D

Thinking positive thoughts for Roxee that all will continue to go well.

Louise

Rusty's Mom

06-08-2009, 12:20 AM

Great to read this update!! Keep that tail waggin'!!

Hugs to Roxee!

MJ

frijole

06-08-2009, 07:40 AM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Such good news. K

ladysmom06

06-08-2009, 11:20 AM

Hi John,

Well on Saturday evening when I got home, she smelled or sensed that I was in the room and as I bent over to pick her up, she wagged her tail for the first time in over 6 or 7 months. My wife and I were speechless.

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!! I can just imagine how happy that made you and your wife. Happy:D:D:D:D to hear that Roxee is doing well and hoping she continues to improve. Hugs to the two of you.

Luv,
Lynne and Angel Lady 7/98-3/09

Squirt's Mom

06-08-2009, 12:13 PM

Hi John,

Good report on Roxee! Sounds like she is coming around. YIPPEE! :D

A wagging tail...how wonderful! :D:D Isn't it amazing how something we once took for granted now can mean so very much to us? I hope you continue to see improvement and find much more to rejoice over.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

victor

06-08-2009, 01:33 PM

hi
my name is victor I have a shih-tzu/lhasa and they have told me he has cushings don't know where to start don't want to have him all druged up is there a natrul way to go?????he is 12 1/2 years old and has a hip problem too.
Any help would be awsume
thank you very much

Squirt's Mom

06-08-2009, 01:56 PM

Hi Victor,

If you will look under your original thread titled "Help", you will find several responses to you concerning your baby. We do want to help you both very much so if you could read those responses and answer the questions we have asked, that will get the ball rolling on helping you know what to do. You will find your thread at:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=628

We try to keep all the info about your pup in one place; that way we can refer back if we need to.

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Roxee's Dad

06-10-2009, 11:00 PM

I have been reading about Adequane from a number of post and know that Scott uses it on Moria with success. With Roxee's recent improvements, I am able to notice that her panting is from one of two things. 1 - Pain from walking or 2- extremely tired from walking. I tend to think it is pain in her joints because the panting starts immediately when she starts to walk.

I was at the vet today with Rozee as she had to get a dental. (one tooth extracted:() I asked him about using Adequane for Roxee as he was opposed to a number of other pain relievers due to groggyness. Last thing she needs in her weakend condition. He agreed it might be worth a shot (literally) but warned me that he has only seen about a 40 to 50% success rate. I am making an appointment for her first shot and to learn how to give her future shots.

Wondering if anyone has had or not had success with it?

Thanks

StarDeb55

06-10-2009, 11:09 PM

John, I put Barkley on Adequan & it did help him. The way it was done, (things may have changed by now), was a weekly injection for 8 weeks, then injections could go to 1-2x per month. Unfortunately, as we all know what the expenses are for a Cushpup, this had to fall by the way side, because at $25 per injection, I could not afford it & keep up with all of Barkley's other medical bills.

Debbie

frijole

06-10-2009, 11:12 PM

Hi John.

I'm an adequan "newbie". We have had 3 weekly shots - one more to go before we do it monthly. I can only say that there are times when I see my ole gal back. She dashes thru the house (at 15 1/2) of course it's to eat. ha. She also is "smiling" more. It's not all the time but she just seems to be in less pain. I tried it because after years on glucosamine and fish oil I felt she needed a bit more.

Scott has far more experience and I'm sure he'll add his thoughts.

Note - how did someone else's posts get in this thread? (scroll up)

:D

Kim

frijole

06-10-2009, 11:13 PM

StarDeb55

06-10-2009, 11:15 PM

Kim, this was a number of years ago as B crossed the bridge almost 3 years ago. So far, my little snot may be troubled with a lot of things, but arthritis & joint pain, doesn't seem to be one of his issues for which I'm grateful.

Debbie

lucygoo

06-10-2009, 11:15 PM

Hi John...
I was recommended to try adequane by my GP vet, but haven't run it by Dr. B yet. I'm also thinking about trying it for Lucy. I think it's definitely worth a shot. :)

Gina

PS...I looked through your pictures in your album...They're Adorable!:)

frijole

06-10-2009, 11:16 PM

StarDeb55

06-10-2009, 11:31 PM

No worries, Kim. I'm sort of in Barkley mode right now, any way, because of Chewy's issues being so similar to what his were.

Debbie

So sorry for the hijack, John.

AlisonandMia

06-11-2009, 12:58 AM

I think I read somewhere that Adequan had about a 50% success rate but that is pretty darn good as far as any treatment goes, really. For many, many human meds, procedures etc a 1 in 8 positive response is considered quite impressive!

I believe the side-effect profile of Adequan is better than a lot of other treatments and anyway NSAIDS probably don't stack up as being any more effective especially when unacceptable side effects are factored in.

If Zac (only 3yo and fighting fit) ever needs something for arthritis (and I have a feeling in my bones that he well might), I think Adequan or it's local equivalent will be something I'll definitely be asking about as a first-line treatment.

Alison

ventilate

06-11-2009, 03:04 PM

I have been using adaquan for Nike for quit a while now, She had been getting glucosamine via tablets but they are large and she would leave them in her dish and I had trouble getting her to take them any other way.Dr E started her on the Adaquan. It seems like it is working for her as well. She gets her shots every 2 weeks now, and Kenai has started on them as well but only gets his every month as his legs are just starting to get stiff. I pay about 80.00$ for 2 bottles and there is 5 ccs in each. Both dogs get 1.5 cc per shot to they last me a couple months. They are not hard to administer.
Good luck
Sharon

Roxee's Dad

06-11-2009, 11:11 PM

Thanks all for your input. Roxee's goes in tomorrow for her first injection of adaquan. Hopefully I learn how to do it myself. 1 hour drive each way to the vet.

One other question, when should I expect to see results if any? hours, days, weeks?

One last question not related to Roxee or Cushings. Rozee has become scared poopless of thunder and any loud or unusual noises. I asked the vet about valium but didn't want Rozee to feel out of control, he recommended trying Benadryl, 25 mg (she weighs 16.8 lbs). Has anyone else used this to calm their pup from thunder? Does it help. I just feel so bad for her.

Thanks a million.

frijole

06-11-2009, 11:30 PM

John,

My other girl, Annie is deathly afraid of thunder and lightening. The whole bed shakes and wakes me up! She's a 17 lb schnauzer! Anyway after learning here about melatonin I tried it and it seems to work. I'd try it first! Kim

Roxee's Dad

06-11-2009, 11:39 PM

Hi Kim,

My other girl, Annie is deathly afraid of thunder and lightening. The whole bed shakes and wakes me up! She's a 17 lb schnauzer! Anyway after learning here about melatonin I tried it and it seems to work. I'd try it first! Kim

Thanks, how many mg do you give Annie as she is about the same weight as Rozee?

Thanks again.

frijole

06-12-2009, 09:03 AM

The pills are 3mg and I give her 1/2 of a pill. Let me know how it works. Kim

gpgscott

06-12-2009, 10:19 AM

Hi John,

I would think you will be seeing some improvment with the Adequan in a couple of weeks, are you getting once weekly injections to begin with? The injections are not hard to administer and most pups don't even notice.

Moria gets benedryl on occasion and it helps her sleep without affecting her coordination, valium makes her stumbly.

Scott

MiniSchnauzerMom

06-12-2009, 02:45 PM

Hi John,

Hope the Adequan injections will have Roxee feeling better soon. I have no doubt in my mind that you'll be giving those injections yourself with no problem. I had to give one of my cats sub-q fluids several times a week. After the initial nervous attack on my part the first couple of times it just became part of the routine.

Sorry, can't help regarding the Benadryl for Rozee. Munchie's first IMS did suggest I give it to him for his car anxiety when making the long drive but I never actually tried it.

Louise

ventilate

06-18-2009, 12:04 PM

Re; thunder;
I saw on martha stewart once she had her vet on and he said that the dogs are sensitive to the static electricty in the air with the lightening. He said to rub them down with dryer sheets, you can get the ones that dont have perfume or just reg sheets and it prevents the static from tingling their skin and they are not as bothered. I would love someone to try this to see if it is true or not.
You can also use the dryer sheets as a bug repelent, we take dryer sheets on vacation with us the nonsmelly kind and use them and they do work, no bites.
I am a wealth of useless information:)
Sharon
PS it took nike the month to see a difference in her with the adaquan, Kenai, I have not noticed he was stiff but Dr E said he seemed to be getting stiffer so wanted him stated on it.

Harley PoMMom

06-18-2009, 01:20 PM

Hi John,

Re; thunder: Harley before melatonin was extremely scared of thunder, he would shake and follow me all around the house. Now after he has been on the melatonin, he has a totally different reaction, sleeps right through it at night and it doesn't bother him at all if it happens during the day when he is awake.

Harley weighs 20.8 lbs and gets 3mg BID.

Best of luck with Rozee and Roxee.
Gentle belly rubs to both from Harley.
Lori

Roxee's Dad

06-18-2009, 04:20 PM

Hi All,
Thanks for the input.
Rozee is just really afraid of any kind of noise including thunder. I think she always felt confident that Roxee was always around to protect her which she has many, many times. Now that Roxee is not the alpha she used to be, Rozee feels kind of on her own. The Benidryl is working really great. Vet recommended 25 mg but we have been giving her 1/2 a dose and it seems to take the edge off.

BTW - although Roxee is not the alpha she used to be, if the other ones get to close to her comfort zone, she let's out a bark and it's funny to see them all scramble to get out of her way. She still has it:D

Roxee is going for her 2nd injection tomorrow. Vet felt it would be better if he did the injection since she is so thin and boney. Not much muscle to find.

Took Rox off the trilo 3 days ago as she wasn't eating again:(:(:(. She woke up at 2 am and yelped while trying to get up, I heard a fart and immy put my hand under her butt and recvd a very unpleasant surprise.:eek: Then we went on for over 48 hours without a poop.So still trying to get her to eat on a regular basis and it is very challenging. One meal will be chicken and she goes for it, then if we try chicken for lunch, it doesn't work and we then try beef, maybe she'll go for it or maybe not, then we move on to something else. Sometimes, she prefers dry kibble to hamburger. Weird.

I think our cush pups have their own network and they work together to worry us. When (Debbie's) Chewy wasn't eating, Roxee was Now that Chewy is eating well, Roxee isn't. I think we need to paw proof our internet:) and somehow Moria is quietly Orchestrating this.

All the best to you all and belly rubs all around.

Squirt's Mom

06-18-2009, 05:14 PM

I think our cush pups have their own network and they work together to worry us. When (Debbie's) Chewy wasn't eating, Roxee was Now that Chewy is eating well, Roxee isn't. I think we need to paw proof our internet and somehow Moria is quietly Orchestrating this.

LOL...you found out their secret! We have to keep an eye on Glynda's Jojo or he starts sending messages to the other pups on how NOT to follow the rules! :eek: It's a conspiracy, I tell ya, a conspiracy! :p

I hope the injections help Roxee and that she can once again reign with her usual spunk.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

StarDeb55

06-18-2009, 06:44 PM

I'm in total agreement with the conspiracy theory. I think these pups have their own personal "PM" system to each other, with the network being called, "Let's drive our people NUTS!":D:eek::rolleyes:

Debbie

Wylie's Mom

06-18-2009, 07:57 PM

I was told that when a dog sniffs an area that another dog had peed on, they were just checking their 'p-mail':rolleyes:.

-Susy

John II

06-22-2009, 03:55 AM

Hope all is well with Brother John's gang!

A cush pup network would explain a lot! :D

Best Wishes,

Brother John II and Angelina

gpgscott

06-22-2009, 10:43 AM

Took Rox off the trilo 3 days ago as she wasn't eating again:(:(:(. She woke up at 2 am and yelped while trying to get up, I heard a fart and immy put my hand under her butt and recvd a very unpleasant surprise.:eek: Then we went on for over 48 hours without a poop.So still trying to get her to eat on a regular basis and it is very challenging. One meal will be chicken and she goes for it, then if we try chicken for lunch, it doesn't work and we then try beef, maybe she'll go for it or maybe not, then we move on to something else. Sometimes, she prefers dry kibble to hamburger. Weird.

I think our cush pups have their own network and they work together to worry us. When (Debbie's) Chewy wasn't eating, Roxee was Now that Chewy is eating well, Roxee isn't. I think we need to paw proof our internet:) and somehow Moria is quietly Orchestrating this.

All the best to you all and belly rubs all around.

Hi John, sorry I missed this post earlier. We had a couple of issues with Talos after a bout of whipworms and treatment. He had developed uncontrolable diahhrea and would yelp as you have described while attempting to void. In our case the Dr. put it to inflammation and general discomfort of the bowel due to the recent parasite and inflammation, I would think that inflamation from sources other than parasites would create the same discomfort.

Also the fact you are relating that she is being challenged by others differently than in the recent past could be causing stress which I think can agravate bowel issues.

And I would not put Moria above attempting to drive us all batty:D

Hope you start seeing results from the Adequan soon.

Scott

Roxee's Dad

07-14-2009, 12:07 PM

It is with a shattered heart that I inform you that my sweet baby girl Roxee has crossed the bridge on July 10, 2009. I am writing this as I feel I must bring closure to her thread and to let all our cush family who have given us so much support some closure.

Due to neurological problems, she was no longer able to hold herself up on her hind legs. She had been deteriorating for a couple of weeks. Roxee had gone almost totally blind and deaf earlier this year and lately we had to hand feed her because she could no longer find her food easily. She could smell it but would bob her head trying to find it. On the last few nights she would fall and gave up trying to get back up, I understood she was trying to tell me it was time. She was tired of fighting this battle. We had to make the heartbreaking decision that we all hope we never have to make.

The Trilo had done what it was supposed to do, after years of abnormal bloodwork, Her numbers were now within the normal range, her coat fully returned, her excessive thirst had decreased and her “pot belly” was gone. She / we could not overcome the neurological issues. The vet said it could have been a macrotumor, myotonia or a myopathy of some kind. Patty and I did not want to subject Roxee to any further testing that would only confirm or deny a diagnosis with no hope of recovery. She had had enough of poking, prodding and muscle manipulation. Every test she had took a toll on her and it would always take her some time to recover.

Roxee’s littermate sister Rozee seems to be a little lost and confused and somewhat frightened, we remain strong as we can for her, Mickee and Little Bit. Although I love all my pups, Roxee and I always had a special connection. I now fully understand what “gut wrenching” means.

On behalf of my family, Patty, Mickee, Little Bit, Rozee and Forever My Roxee, I want to thank you all for the kindness and support the many members here have given us. In my short time in this forum, we have so often shared many happy moments and many sad moments.

On behalf of Roxee, please give all your furbabies a big hug, a belly rub, and a special treat.

Roxee, you are gone from my arms but will remain forever in my heart. I love you my Sweet “Foxy” Roxee Girl.

lucygoo

07-14-2009, 12:14 PM

Hi John...

I am so very, very sorry for your loss. I know how much you loved Roxee, and she loved you. And she was a lovely girl. My thoughts are with you today...

Gina

Squirt's Mom

07-14-2009, 12:28 PM

I STOOD BY YOUR BED

I stood by your bed last night,
I came to have a peep.
I could see that you were crying,
You found it hard to sleep.

I whined to you softly
As you brushed away a tear,
"It's me, I haven't left you,
I'm well, I'm fine, I'm here."

I was close to you at breakfast,
I watched you pour the tea,
You were thinking of the many times,
Your hands reached down to me.

I was with you at the shops today,
Your arms were getting sore.
I longed to take your parcels,
I wish I could do more.

I was with you at my grave today,
You tend it with such care.
I want to re-assure you,
That I'm not lying there.

I walked with you towards the house,
As you fumbled for your key.
I gently put my paw on you,
I smiled and said "It's me."

You looked so very tired,
And sank into a chair,
I tried so hard to let you know,
That I was standing there.

It's possible for me,
To be so near you every day.
To say to you with certainty,
"I never went away."

You sat there very quietly,
Then smiled, I think you knew...
In the stillness of that evening,
I was very close to you.

The day is over...
I smile and watch you yawning,
And say, "good-night, God Bless,
I'll see you in the morning."

An when the time is right for you,
To cross the brief divide,
I'll rush across to greet you,
And we'll stand, side by side.

I have so many things to show you,
There is so much for you to see.
Be patient, live your journey out...
Then come home to be with me.

Author Unknown

Dearest John,

I know how difficult it was for you to make this post and I want to thank you for sharing. Your heart is in a million pieces now but as time passes, those pieces will grow back together, stronger than it ever was before. The grief may never leave, that void may remain always, but the love you and Roxee share, that amazing bond, will change the tone of your grief and you will find that the hole in your soul will hold more compassion, happiness and joy because of the depth of your grief.

My thoughts, tears, and prayers remain with you, Patty and your babies.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Ruby, Goldie and Crystal

corgipallie

07-14-2009, 12:49 PM

I'm so sorry John.:(

labblab

07-14-2009, 12:55 PM

Leslie, what a beautiful poem. On behalf of all of us who have borne the grief of loss, thank you so much for its comforting words.

John, I am so terribly sorry. Your entire family has become "our" family, and Roxee will always remain a treasured spirit for us all. It has been our joy and privilege to share her treatment successes, and it is now with sorrow that we mourn her passing. But in joining all our beloved pups who have preceded her to the Bridge, we continue to celebrate her spirit and honor the bond that you will always share.

With many (((hugs))) today and everyday, in loving memory of your sweet Roxee ~
Marianne

Dollydog

07-14-2009, 01:02 PM

Hi John,
I'm so very sorry to hear this news and understand why you waited to post. I also understand how one animal can be just a little more special than the others.
Your post has given me another hint as to what to look for when Lady is ready to pass on to a world where her body is whole and healthy and free of the stresses she faces right now. Her head doesn't bob, it kind of shudders. I was told there is "something neurological" going on.
Please take good care of yourselves at this time and come back to let us know how you're making out. You've become a very important part of this forum in such a short time.
Hugs,
Jo-Ann & Lady

Harley PoMMom

07-14-2009, 01:06 PM

John and Patty,

Please accept my heartfelt condolences for the loss of sweet Roxee.

You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

With deepest sympathy,
Lori

forscooter

07-14-2009, 01:12 PM

John,

I'm so very sorry....and share in your tears and heartache. There is nothing I can do, nothing I can say to make any of it any easier. I wish so much that there was. But please know and feel the love and sympathy being sent to you and your family....and I do believe in Leslie's beautiful poem...that she will always be with you....and so will we.....

Much love and many hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Godspeed, Sweet Roxee

Carol G

07-14-2009, 01:30 PM

John, I am so sorry. You did what was best for Roxie and my thoughts are with you and all your family.

Carol, Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott

07-14-2009, 01:38 PM

John,

I am sad for you and your family over the loss of Roxee.

Rest peacefully little one.

Scott

Wylie's Mom

07-14-2009, 06:32 PM

John,

My condolences to you and your family. Roxee was so loved and we all know how very special she was to you. My thoughts are with you.

-Susy

4Mikeydog

07-14-2009, 06:49 PM

Oh John...

I am so heartbroken for you and for Patty. I sit here writing through the tears.
There are no words to describe the level of emotions that are present at a time like this. You have been so kind and genuine in all you have done.
Roxee was so lucky to have you and Patty as her "people"

Your kindness and compassion came through for her at this most difficult time.
Leslie's poem was beautiful and I'm sure we all are sobbing as we read the poem and learn of this sad news.
Take care of yourselves and we pray that in days to come, the tears will be replaced by the wonderful memories you have of your special girl.
Our heartfelt condolences to you and your whole family.

with love and prayers,
Dorothy and Mikey

John II

07-15-2009, 12:24 AM

Dear Brother John,

I'm so sorry to hear that Roxee's time has come. :(
I know you did everything you could possibly have done for her.
And your experiences have been a guiding light for so many, including myself.

My deepest sympathy,

SachiMom

07-15-2009, 12:30 AM

John and Patty,

If I could find words to help I would write them to you. It was the hardest decision to make, but you both know it was the right one. When you start second guessing yourself, remember she can now walk, see, hear and eat. She keeps you in her heart, just as she will always be in yours.

Godspeed Roxee.

Love and Hugs for you both.

~Mary Ann

k9diabetes

07-15-2009, 01:55 AM

Hi John,

Although I've sent you a message, I wanted to post my sympathies here as well. I was deeply saddened to hear of Roxee's passing and know a little about what you went through those last few weeks, the torture of it and of the decision you have to make.

Bless you for relieving Roxee when her life was no longer happy and for loving her so deeply.

Natalie

SaxLady

07-15-2009, 02:33 AM

This just breaks my heart. God bless and comfort you and your family.
Candy

Truffa's Mom

07-15-2009, 05:51 AM

Hello John and Patty.

It deeply saddens me to know that sweet Roxee has had to say Goodbye to you and her family on earth. Words seems so hollow right now, just tears and this pressure on my chest trying to express our profound sorrow.

The special tender bond that you shared with Roxee has been something really wonderful to appreciate. I will forever remember when you mentioned how your baby knew when you were near her even though she couldn't see or hear.

I will be praying for your heart to heal and also for all your family including all the furry ones that for sure also will be missing their loving sister Roxee. I hope that we can support you now. As others have said letting go of sweet Roxee and relieving her of her pain is the ultimate proof of your immense love and respect for her. I Truly believe on the lovely poem that Leslie posted...I am sure Roxee's spirit will be taking care of you while you build up your strength to look inside your heart and "fetch" a memory that makes you smile, and then another one, and then two..... and then another one....

Godspeed sweet Roxee

The Gift

I’ll lend you for a little while my grandest dog, he said.
For you to love while he’s alive
And mourn for when he’s dead.

It may be one or many years,
Or days, or months, you see.
But will you, till I take him back
Take care of him for me?

He’ll bring his charm to gladden you,
And should his stay be brief
You will have treasured memories
As solace for your grief.

I cannot promise he will stay,
Since all from earth return.
But there are lessons taught on earth
I want this dog to learn.

I’ve looked the wide world over
In my search for teachers true.
And from the throngs that crowd life’s lanes
With trust, I have selected you.

Now will you give him your total love?
Nor think the labor vain,
Nor hate when I come
To take him back again?

I know you’ll give him tenderness
And love will bloom each day.
And for the happiness you’ve known
Forever grateful stay.

But should I come and call for him
Sooner than you’ve planned
You’ll brave the bitter grief that comes
And someday you’ll understand.

~Author Unknown

Sammie

07-15-2009, 06:34 AM

John I am new to this board, but I want to give my condolences to you and your family. I was sobbing when I read your post. I woke Tessie up I was cry so hard, but then I got up, got Tessie up, went in to the kitchen, got out the cooked chicken and started chopping it up all the while I was crying. Now I have five dogs starting at me like I am nuts, but I've got chicken is what there face's say as they watch me.

So I started give out big handfuls. Sammie about bit my hand off in excitement, that boy has know manners, but I didn't stop there with my crazy actions, I went over to the cookie jar were I keep the milk bones and started dolling those out.

I tucked them all in after that, but a blanket over them and gave out extra hugs and kiss's, and snuck one more cookie over to Sammie when I tugged him in. I hope my crazy reaction, story helps a little. Your lost was really felt here and I am deeply sorry for your loss. Roxee isn't gone yet, listen for her sound. You will hear her, cause you are her Dad. Big hugs, now I'm crying again. Dottie:(

jrepac

07-15-2009, 08:06 AM

Very sorry to hear about Roxee...even when the Cushings meds are doing there job, other complications may arise. I have been through this in the past as well.

My condolences

ladysmom06

07-15-2009, 09:08 AM

John,

I am so very sorry for the loss of your sweet Roxee. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. My deepest sympathy.

Spiceysmum

07-15-2009, 12:17 PM

So sorry to hear about Roxee. Thinking of you all.

Linda and Spicey

January

07-15-2009, 03:07 PM

I was so sorry to read about Roxee. I hope that in time your happy memories will help ease the pain.
January and Serena

Shadow's Mom

07-15-2009, 08:38 PM

John,
I just wanted to tell you how very sorry I am to hear about Roxee. My heart is breaking for you and your family.

Karen

Barney's Mom

07-15-2009, 08:46 PM

John, I just saw this. I am so sorry for the loss of sweet Roxee. I hope you take comfort in knowing you were the BEST dad and Roxee loved you very much. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Cheryl

bgdavis

07-16-2009, 09:45 AM

John and family,

I'm very sorry for the loss of your beloved Roxee. I hope these words will help ease the pain.

Farewell, Master, yet not farewell. Where I go, you too, shall dwell.
I am gone before your face, a moment's time, a little space.
When ye come where I have stepped, ye will wonder why ye wept.

-Edwin Arnold

Bonnie and Angel Criss

ChristyA

07-16-2009, 10:00 AM

John,
I am so sorry for your loss. No words can remove the sorrow from your heart but just know that we are here for you, and some have experienced the same sorrow. May the wonderful memories of Roxee shine through the sadness of her passing.
Christy

JFBMaine

07-16-2009, 01:44 PM

John, I posted something in"Loving Memories" when you first posted the sad news about Roxee. You were so very kind and supportive when I first joined this forum. I just wanted to tell you again how very sorry I am. You were so lucky to have such a special girl and she was lucky to have such a special you. Felice and Finnegan

Roxee's Dad

07-16-2009, 10:49 PM

To My K9Cush family,

I brought Roxee home today which gave me some sense of relief that she is back home with us where she belongs. Included in her certificate of cremation was the following poem:

Shadowing our footsteps were four little paws,
governed by faith and devotion’s great laws.

Thus it had been for many a year,
united in step till death did appear.

What man could learn about serving a cause,
from our faithful friends
and their devoted paws.

On behalf of my family, I want to thank you, my K9cush family for your thoughtful comments, wonderful poems, well wishes and words of encouragement. We could feel the healing love that you were sending us and it meant so much to us. Thank you.

Gentle belly rubs to all your fur babies.