cushings and vaccinations

[Tia's Mum]

Hi to everyone, I am so glad to have found a site like this one when I first heard about my dog Tia having cushings 4 months ago I was devastated. It is so good to know there are people out there who understand this disease and how it affects our loved ones. My girl is only 7 years old and is a shih tzu. She was diagnosed due to her increased water intake but she had other symptoms that the vet didn't notice long before, mainly her weight gain and ravenous appetite, I was told to put on her on a special diet and only give fruit as dog treats. She did lose weight but how I wish her condition could have been diagnosed sooner.

I wanted to ask everyone's advice, Tia was due her booster vaccination in April of this year, I have heard it puts a strain on a dogs immune system and so didn't let her have it, I am not sure if this is the right thing to do? My vet wants Tia to have the injection but boosters are a good source of income for vets! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Also talking of immunity, are there any good products out there that help boost a dogs immunity as since April Tia has had 2 chest infections and has had 2 lots of antibiotics.

Well that's all from me for now, I am so happy to be part of this site and I look forward to hearing from all you lovely people soon.
Kindest Regards, from Tia's Mum

[labblab]

Welcome to you and Tia!

I am so glad that you and Tia have joined our family. In order to give you the best possible feedback about Tia's situation, can you tell us more about the diagnostics that determined that Tia has Cushing's? What testing was performed, and do you have any of the actual test results? Also, are you currently treating Tia with any medication? Is she taking either Vetoryl (trilostane) or Lysodren?

As I say, your answers to these questions will help guide us in our thoughts and suggestions. However, as a general answer to your question about Cushdogs and vaccinations, I am going to copy a reply that I just posted yesterday on the thread of another member who asked a similar question. I am not a vet, so my thoughts about vaccination reflect my personal experiences and investigation. Vaccination is a complicated issue, and people have strong feelings one way or another. But as an introduction to my reply, I do want to add one thing. I definitely agree that one must be cautious about taxing the immune system of a dog who suffers from a chronic illness. But an unvaccinated dog who catches a serious illness that could otherwise have been prevented will surely suffer from an assault to its immune system, as well. So I personally feel that it is important to weigh the risks and benefits of selective vaccination.


Hi Leah,

I want to "second" Leslie's recommendation that you consult with your vet as to which, if any, vaccinations would be in Maya's best interest right now. My personal belief is that there is no single answer that is correct for all dogs, including our Cushpups. I think that a vaccination program should be tailored to the health and risk factors for each individual dog.

I do think there is general agreement that vaccines should not be administered to dogs that are acutely ill. But just as is the case for humans, I believe that dogs suffering from chronic conditions and compromised immune systems may actually be at a greater risk for contracting certain serious illnesses, and thus may genuinely benefit from certain vaccinations -- such as the annual "human" recommendation that flu shots be given to seniors and people with chronic lung problems. However, for both humans and pets, the vaccines must be considered in light of the underlying health status of the patient -- for instance, only vaccines prepared from "killed" viruses may be suitable for patients with compromised immune systems. And it certainly makes no sense to routinely administer vaccinations for illnesses that may not pose any risk to your pet due to geographic or lifestyle factors.

Since vaccination is a complicated issue, I do encourage you to discuss it thoroughly with your vet. If my own dog had just been diagnosed with Cushing's and had not yet been stabilized on treatment, I too would be very leery about moving forward with vaccination at that time. However, further down the road, if my dog's cortisol level had been lowered to a therapeutic level and his/her appearance and behavior had normalized, I would want to discuss selective vaccination with my vet. I would want to weigh relative risks and benefits based on my pet's lifestyle and risks of exposure. To aid in your decision-making, here's a link that may be helpful. It is a summary of the current vaccination recommendations of the vet school at U.C. Davis:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/small_animal/internal_medicine/vaccination_protocols.cfm

Marianne
Once again, welcome to you and Tia. I'll be anxious to read more about your little girl.

Marianne

[Tia's Mum]

Hi Marianne

Thank you so much for your informative reply and your warm welcome, I have had a read of the vet article you attached and your post sent to the other new lady, I am going to discuss her booster jabs with my vet and if she agrees maybe vaccinating Tia in another month or so when she is fully stabilised on her medication dose.

She is taking 40mg veteroyl a day, she was first tested by a full blood profile and electrolytes, I am not sure what the results were at this stage however she then had the ACTH stimulation test and this confirmed cushings. I do know that her reading from this test was her cortisol levels were 16,000 if that makes sense.

She was then placed on 30mg veteroyl, she had her 10 day test and then her one month test and cortisol levels were at 900. My vet suggested raising dose to 40mg, she had her 10 day test and then again one month later (which was 2 weeks ago), it is now 200which I am told is a normal level?
My next test will be in 6 weeks as vet suggested another test at the 2 month period. I have had her electrolytes tested too and her sodium levels are high but was told they would never be normal because of having cushings. I don't know what her sodium levels are but I will check with my vet.

My vet told me that they didn't need to establish where the tumour was because if it was in the adrenal gland it would be more likely to be malignant and therefore non operable and if it was a tumour in the pituatary gland then although less likely to be malignant the treatment was expensive radiotherapy to shrink the tumour and this had lots of side effects.
I agreed to this and I do wonder if other vets tell people this?

In herself she is doing well, she still loves her food however is not as ravenous as before, her weight is slowly dropping and she seems to have more energy (she weighs 9.5 kilo but is quite a tall shih tzu). She tolerates the medication really well and so far touch wood she has not had any nasty side effects, I am aware that veteroyl can cause the tumour to grow which can cause neurological symptoms, I did read this on the net so not sure how accurate it is.
I do feel as if I am under constant stress keeping my eye on her, so far she has had 2 chest infections after her diagnosis of cushings (she never had any infections prior to starting veteroyl) She has needed two lots of antibiotics within 4 months to help her.
I think that's all the story so far, I am sure I will have much more to tell you once I have signed off though!

I notice you are an administrator and I just want to say how helpful this site is, until my Tia got diagnosed I had never heard of cushings and didn't know anyone who owned a dog with cushings, it is such a comfort to have a forum like this available. Thank you
Hope to hear from you soon
Tia's Mum (Jackie)

[littleone1]

Hi and welcome to you and Tia.

Marianne has given you some good feedback.

Corky is no longer getting anymore vaccinations. His IMS is also getting a waiver for his rabies shot. She feels that this is best for Corky.

I would definitely check with your vet or IMS as to what would be best for Tia.

Terri

[Tia's Mum]

Hi Terri

Thank you for your advice, I have booked in to see my vet to discuss this further. I will keep you updated on the outcome, thanks again and have a good day.
Best Wishes
Jackie

[Maya]

Welcome from me too!:) I am in the same boat as you. Infact, it was me who asked that same question on the board the other day. I am leaning towards not vaccinating Maya, but...yeah, it's a personal choice. Maya's liver is not in very good shape at the moment. The scan revealed a good bit of liver damage, so for the time being, I reckon I'm going to opt out!
Leah and Maya :)

[Tia's Mum]

Hi Leah and Maya

Nice to hear from you and thanks for your welcome, it was good advice that Marianne gave us, it is such a hard decision to know what to do for best with vaccinations. My vet wants Tia to have her booster and I will probably end up letting her have it.
I have read a few messages on here and it seems that a lot of people know whether the tumour is pituatary or adrenal, I don't know where Tia's tumour is, my vet said the veteroyl will treat both types and so we don't need to do further testing. I have followed her advice, I live in UK and this is the standard response of treating dogs with cushings apparently.

Well I will sign off for now, all the best to you and your baby!
Best Wishes
Jackie

[Maya]

Hi Leah and Maya

Nice to hear from you and thanks for your welcome, it was good advice that Marianne gave us, it is such a hard decision to know what to do for best with vaccinations. My vet wants Tia to have her booster and I will probably end up letting her have it.
I have read a few messages on here and it seems that a lot of people know whether the tumour is pituatary or adrenal, I don't know where Tia's tumour is, my vet said the veteroyl will treat both types and so we don't need to do further testing. I have followed her advice, I live in UK and this is the standard response of treating dogs with cushings apparently.

Well I will sign off for now, all the best to you and your baby!
Best Wishes
Jackie

Hi there Jackie, I don't know where maya's tumour is either! That is correct, Vetoryl will treat both. Maya had an ultra sound done and her Adrenal glands are within the norm, but only just. They are ever so slightly bigger than what they should be -one more so than the other. Therefore, I suppose she has a pituatary tumour...I think. Regarding testing and treatment, they seem to be the same here in Italy, but Maya seems to be doing well, so that'll do me!;)
I am a fellow Brit by the way:) Hope your little furry friend feels better soon!
Hugs, Leah

[Tia's Mum]

Hi Leah

I didn't know you were a fellow Brit! and now you live in Italy, wow that's a big change, bet you don't miss the weather though here eh!
Your message was very reassuring to know you are going through the same with Maya as I am with Tia and that Maya is doing well. Tia has been fine on her medication so far and I am trusting my vet to guide me along on what's best for her. She seems a caring vet which puts me at ease. Can I ask if you feed Maya any special diet? I have heard that a high protein diet works best. I have just ordered a dog food called Lily's kitchen which says it contains human grade quality ingredients so she is on that at moment.

Anyway hope you and Maya are having a good day and hope to hear from you soon
Kindest Regards
Jackie