Tiggy - 12 3/4 yr old Sydney Silky Terrier - Dental Question

[Tiggy]

Hi, I am new here to posting but came here a year ago when our dear dog Tiggy was newly diagnosed with Cushings disease... your site was a valuable resource for us newbies and helped us learn more about this disease and what treatments were available etc, so thank you very much for that!!.

Tiggy is on 30mg Modrenal (he is 5kg) for the past year and I must say he has bounced back to the playful little happy dog he was which is great, BUT after his recent checkup it was recommended to get his teeth cleaned... we are very wary of this as he does have a heart murmur and initially an enlarged liver & heart... he is due for a ATCH Stim test to see if the disease is being controlled correctly... but we are still wary of putting him under in case something goes wrong - we are in a catch 22 scenario, damned if we do, damned if we don't... was just wondering if anyone here has had their dogs teeth cleaned successfully or any other safe options are available?? We are in New Zealand if that's helpfull as well.

Thanks!
Amber

[labblab]

Dear Amber,

I am so glad that you have started posting -- welcome to you and Tiggy! I only have a moment for a brief note, but I do want to clarify for our readers that Modrenal is the equivalent of Vetoryl -- it is the human brandname form of trilostane. But in terms of dosage and use, it is the same thing as Vetoryl. Once again, welcome to you both.

Marianne

[frijole]

My cush dog had her teeth cleaned every six months and she did just fine. She had a slight murmur but the vet felt she was OK. My current dog has other issues, including heart murmur and HBP and they will not put her under to clean her teeth. I really think you have to go with the opinion of your vet. I know it is so hard.

Marianne - thanks because I had never heard of Modrenal! :) Kim

[StarDeb55]

I have had 2 cushpups, both were treated with lysodren, though. My last little boy did have a grade 3-4 heart murmur, & sailed through his dentals just fine. He was kept on IV fluid to support his liver/kidney function while under, & until he started waking up, just to insure that the anesthesia was flushed out of his system.

Debbie

[jmac]

My dog was diagnosed the day she was supposed to be having her dental. They did not do it at that time, and instead tested for Cushing's. She then went on Anipryl for a month and had an abdominal ultrasound (everything looked good) and her liver value dropped slightly. My vet said he was very confident about doing the dental at the time, since everything looked good internally. He said he had done dentals on dogs with higher liver values and that they just do some extra monitoring. I was very nervous about it as well. She had it done in May and she was fine. I would talk more about it with your vet, and make sure there is updated blood work. Maybe you can even get a second opinion from another vet? I know it's bad to let an infection or problem in the mouth go, too. Good luck. I know it's a tough decision!
Julie (& Hannah)

[littleone1]

Hi Amber,

Corky did good last January when he had his teeth cleaned and masses and teeth removed. However, when he had surgery in November to have a large cyst removed, neither his IMS or vet, who is his surgeon, wanted him put under anesthesia. He had a local. Corky does have several other medical issues. He was diagnosed with cushings 2 1/2 years ago.

I also would go along with your vet's opinion, as well as your gut feeling.

Terri

[Tiggy]

Thanks so much for your replies everyone, it's much appreciated! We will book him in for his latest ACTH Stim test and see what our vet recommends, we know the dental needs to be done so will wait and see what is recommended.

[jrepac]

At nearly 13yrs of age, I would only consider putting a pup under if it was absolutely needed. Dental work is pretty much optional. This may sound nutty, but have you ever tried to clean your pup's teeth yourself? Even w/out the professional tools, you can get quite a bit of tartar off and then brush w/enzymatic paste, which further breaks it down. There are a few different sprays you can use afterwards as well that either work to loosen tartar or freshen breath. It may take 3-4 sessions, but you can actually do a decent job if you are patient and give your dog the chance to get used to it.

BTW- My Aussie Mandy loved getting her teeth brushed and cleaned--go figure! We had done it since she was a pup, so it was a bit of a game for her. My new Chihuahua Pebbles, who is about to turn 1 yr old, is absolutely nuts for the toothpaste. She sees me with brush and goes crazy...it is really funny. She tolerates the light brushing of her teeth simply to enjoy the toothpaste :p

PS--I used a tooth scraper designed for people (which you can buy at Walgreens, etc) plus a cat toothbrush (as it was smallest) & dog toothpaste and finished with a spray. The scraper is the first step to GENTLY scrape away tartar...followed by GENTLE brushing and spritzing. It can be done, but you should be very gentle so as not to upset the pet or irritate the gums.

Jeff, Angel Mandy & Chi-chi Pebbles

[lulusmom]

I am a small dog rescuer and I've seen, and worse yet, smelled some of the most horrible mouths you have ever seen. My last rescue is a senior boy with breath that could have knocked a buzzard off a poop wagon and his teeth looked like they were being held in by the huge chunks of tartar. Come to find out some of them were. He had 22 teeth removed last week and the vet said he had to have been in excruciating pain.

Most dog will suffer with dental disease by the time they middle aged but toy breeds tend to start having issues younger. In my experience, Maltese and Chihuahuas are the worst. Human studies established a link between dental disease and heart disease long ago and there is proof, via a study done at Purdue a few years ago, that the same holds true for dogs.

I have one vet who I trust to do dentals on all of my senior rescues with heart issues. The way I see it is that if I don't get the infections in the mouth addressed, the bacteria will eventually make the heart problems worse and kill the dog. I'm happy to say that we haven't lost a dog yet and these are seniors with bad hearts. I think that's due to the fact that great great strides have been made with anesthesia. The types and methods of delivery are much improved and pretty much no less safe than human anesthesia now. I've been around a long time and I remember when I would bring a dog home after a dental and they were wiped out for a day and half. Now I pick them up and most are wide awake, alert and can hardly wait to eat.

I agree with Jeff about only putting a dog under if absolutely necessary; however, "veterinary" dental is only optional if the pet owner is fastidious in their maintenance of their dog's mouths. If you have not been brushing your dog's teeth and his mouth is in bad shape, he is probably going to need a professional deep cleaning. I don't know if it's available in New Zealand but there are anesthesia free dental hygenists who can clean teeth here in the states. Oddly enough, I have a gp vet who has an excellent hygenist in his office once a month for his patients. I have two dogs with cushing's and two dogs with heart disease and they now go to the hygenist for monthly maintenance cleanings. He also does two of my senior rescues who are in foster care. They are deeply discounted as one only has two teeth and the other has four. I would love to have the time to sit down and brush my dogs' teeth but I have a lot of dogs and I barely have time to brush and floss my own teeth.

[jmac]

Obviously you do want to consider age, overall health, and the situation before putting your dog under, but my vet has also discussed the seriousness an infection can cause, as well as the pain. You don't want an untreated infection to end up leading to something more serious, but if putting your dog under is a risk in itself, then you should make the decision about what to do. If there is a problem, brushing the dog's teeth now isn't going to fix it. I agree that small breeds tend to have more teeth issues. My two Shih Tzus are both rescues, and Hannah had lots of puppies prior to me adopting, so her teeth are terrible. My other dog was rescued at around age 1, however, and she also has bad teeth. Neither one loves me trying to brush in those teeny-tiny mouths, but regardless, they still need yearly dentals to take care of bad teeth and infections. I would see what your vet thinks, given your dog's situation, and then make a decision about what you think is best. Good luck to you!
Julie

[jrepac]

Just to chime in, Glynda does make a good point. If the dental situation is serious, you may have no choice. I have heard stories of dogs needing all of their teeth removed. And, a childhood friend of mine lost his dog to a dental infection (they never, ever tended to the dog's teeth). But, have an honest discussion with your vet and see where things net out. Maybe if you are lucky, you can find a way to avoid putting Tiggy under.

Jeff & Angel Mandy & Pebbles