Dal Mickey with Atypical Cushing's

[Mickey]

Hi , I am new to this forum. My Dal Mickey who is now 10 y/o was diagnosed a year ago with Atypical Cushing's. I went the route of melotonin and lignans. He was diagnosed from having high cholseterol. He did not have any symtoms at the time. He is my agility partner and loves agility more then anything. He has started drinking tons of water and has become ravenous. He now has hair loss and his skin is wrinkling. Despite this he still wants to run agility. I decided I really needed to treat him and he started on Lysodrin yesterday for his loading phase. My vet is also having me give Pred at the same time. He is fine so far. He has been pulled from agility competion at this time. I will still let him jump in the backyard a few times. I read on posts that Pred and Lysodrin are not to be given at the same time??? My vet has been successful treating Atypical Cushings and this has been her protocol. What has been others experience with this. Thank you for your help and guidance. Linda

[littleone1]

Hi Linda,

Corky and I want to welcome you and Mickey.

When Corky was first diagnosed with cushings, one of his vets was going to treat him with Lysodren and Prednisone at the same time. There are some studies that have been done dealing with this. Corky's IMS and his current vet don't believe that this is the right thing to do, as it masks what is really going on with the cushings.

Terri

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

I am glad you found your way here.

It helps to list your test results. Did Mickey have an ACTH or LDDS test prior to starting lysodren? Also, if you list any abnormal results on any blood or urine tests also listing the lab's normal range.

We also will need to know the doses and what Mickey weighs.

Now that I have finished giving you homework;);), as far as giving Prednisone concurrently with Lysodren, some vets will take this approach to minimize side effects of the Lysodren. Even Dr. Peterson, a well regarded endocrinologist told me it can be done. What reason did your vet give for approaching it this way? Does your dog have other health issues? Sometimes, vets without little experience in treating Cushings will take this route as they think it is a "safer" way to load.

Hang in there and keep researching. The more knowledge you have and the more questions you ask will give you a clearer picture of what is right for your pup.

Hugs,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Linda and welcome to you and Mickey! :)

My Squirt is Atypical and did very well on lignans and melatonin for nearly three years. She started on maintenance of Lyso a few months back since her signs became quite strong. She weighs about 14 lbs and takes 125mg 2X/week.

For a pup to be considered Atypical, the cortisol must be within normal range while one or more of the intermediates are elevated. If cortisol is elevated too, then the pup is considered to have true, or conventional, Cushing's. With Atypical, it is not the norm to load a pup since cortisol is not being over produced as it is in true Cushing's.

It would be a big help to us if you could post the actual results of the testing Mickey has had to diagnose his condition. Please include the units of measurement for each value (ug/dl, nmol/l, etc.) and the normal ranges for each value.

How much does Mickey weigh? What loading dose of Lyso and schedule is he on? Has Mickey been neutered? I ask, because an intact dog can have elevated intermediates that are not related to Cushing's and neutering will sometimes clear everything up. ;)

I want to caution you about allowing Mickey to do very much agility for the moment. Cush pups are very prone to ligament damage since cortisol weakens them. ALC and cruciate ligament tears are a real concern in cush pups. Simply jumping down from the couch can harm them. This is why we often see cush pups that stop jumping up or down from things they used to with ease - their ligaments, muscles, tendons, etc. are weak. As he starts to regain muscle mass and strength with treatment, he can resume normal activities with your vets approval. ;)

Using pred along with Lyso is simply illogical to me. :confused::o The objective of the Lyso is to lower cortisol. Prednisone is a synthetic corticosteriod, which is what cortisol is, only not synthetic. So, to my simple mind, using them both together is like cleaning your floor with mud...contradictory. :confused: The pred is replacing what you are trying to get rid of..... Long term use of steroids like pred causes a form of Cushing's called Iatrogenic that is treated by simply weaning the pup off the pred. So to my simple mind, it makes no sense to use them concurrently. Hopefully someday someone will explain this so it does make sense to me as many vets seem to try this approach. :o:)

I am so glad you found us and look forward to learning more about the both of you as time passes. You couldn't have found a better bunch of folks to walk this path with you and Mickey. You are not alone -we will be with you every step of the way. Ask any questions you may have and we will do our best to help you understand.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Mickey]

Hi Addy and Leslie,

Thanks for your info. Mickey was first dx'ed from a routine blood work in which his cholesterol was elevated. I feed a homemade diet and do bloodwork every 6 mos to make sure the diet is still appropriate so it was found early. He then had a stim test in which his cortisol levels were normal but his sex hormones were elevated. He had no symptoms but was put on melotonin and ligans. He was on them for over a year then started showing symptoms. He has been running agility and even went to the Nationals this year. I had 2 vets, a specialist and my regular vet who still allowed him to run agility. He is now on rest for him.
Mickey was neutered at 2 y/o. He weighs 59 lbs. I do not have the results of his pre-test before he started on the Lysodren this past Monday. He was started on 500 mg of Lysodren a day with (1) 5 mg tablet of Pred. He is to be on this for 7 days and then have a post blood test. The pre-and post tests are ATCH stim tests that measure cortisol and the sex hormones including estodial (please excuse the spelling). I will get the pre-test results on Monday July 11 and can post them. He is doing good so far and is alert and still himself personality wise. He continues to be ravenous which is his worst symptom besides the drinking.
Thanks for your support.

Linda and Mickey