Hi, new here 7 yr old husk/shep - our sweet Nika has crossed The Bridge

[Nika'sMom]

Hello everyone. My name is Lynda and my 7 yr old girl was recently diagnosed with cushings. Her name is Nika (pronounced Neeka) I have been reading here since I found this forum shortly after searching for info on cushings (that I did not know anything about at the time) but thanks to you all, I am learning more and more...I figured it was time to join because I can see that I can trust those that are here ( I have seen problems with pet forums before where people like to argue and fight with each other and I didnt find that enjoyable at all) but I can see that you all really do care about people and their furkids.
I guess I will start slow about my girl and go from there. I rescued Nika 6 yrs ago from a shelter. At the time she was classified as "unadoptable"..my friend just happened to be there that day working, when I showed up looking for another dog,( my wolfhound at the time had been diagnosed with cancer) so she signed her over to me and I do believe we proved them wrong. Nika was a mess when I got her..she was extremely emanciated(sp) and had been terribly abused (believed to be a man)..my poor husband didnt understand what to do, but I got him through it and she has come a very long way since then...well..till now. Nika is on day 18 of Vetoryl. She started on 60mg and after her first stim (day 11 of treatment) her results were low so we lowered her dose and she is now on day 6 of 30mg (my vet contacted the Vetorly people about Nika and her stim results and the lower dose is what they said to do) She goes for her next test on July 12th ( which will be day 14 of lower dose) if she is doing alright, if needed I will take her sooner My vet is also going to run more tests as well...electolytes, liver and more, just cant remember what.
Nika seems to be alright but it is hard to tell with all that happened here over the weekend. Canada Day was on Friday so there were alot of fireworks and to top it off we get some pretty serious thunder and lightening storms here, and there were a few again over the last few days..Nika is PETRIFIED of both! ( and now my other dog is starting to be as well) today is nice and sunny and supose to be for the a while, so I should be able to tell more soon.
I am not sure what else to say in this intro. My mind has been swimming for a few weeks now and I find it hard to put things together about this. I dont have anyone to really discuss this with that understand what Cushings is all about. It is confusing and people are saying that I speak over their heads about it ( me? LOL) Heck..I still have so much to learn and I am trying so hard to learn it fast so I can do the very best for my girl. I can see that some people are "thinking" that I shouldnt put Nika through this. I try to explain the chances of a normal life for her once we get the treatment settled...but, well you know, some people just dont understand.
I guess this is enough for now. I want to say thankyou for all that you do and now giving me the chance to take even better care of my girl with your help and guidance ( and probably patience with me too) Take care and I look forward to getting to know you all and of course your furkids ( even though I feel like I already know you and I am in love with all your pups)....Lynda and Nika...Oh, Nika is around 60 lbs

[littleone1]

Hi Lynda,

Corky and I want to welcome you and Nika.

This is a wonderful group of very caring, supportive and knowledgeable people.

I'm glad your vet was in contact with Dechra, and that when you have the stim test done, blood work will also be done. Everytime Corky has a stim test done, he also has a full blood chemistry panel done.

If you wouldn't mind, it would help our members if you could post the tests that were done, along with the test results, that were used to diagnose Nika as having cushings. Also, what symptoms did Nika have that led to her being tested for cushings?

We'll be looking forward to learning more about Nika.

Terri

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Lynda,
Welcome to you and Nika. Looking forward to hearing more about Niki's test results. :)

[Nika'sMom]

hello Terri and John..and furkids...thankyou for the wonderful welcome. It seems to be a huge reality check for me to now be a member here, but I think I can handle it:confused:..I have the test results in front of me (requested them from my vet and she put them all together for me) I have only been with this vet clinic since I moved here in 2008...Nika saw them for the first time in March 2009 for a bladder/UTI....I asked for all test results since then. Do you want all of the results? I can give them to you if you need them ( might take me a bit though..but I do not mind.
Nika's symptoms....In March Nika peed and I noticed blood ( the blessing of having snow here) right to the vet and infection....2 more followed that ( I have all results)...vet didnt like some things..had blood work done in March 2010 ( have those results..lots of them too)...first stim test in April 2010...was told high side of normal...Cushings suspected
I live in Canada..here are the results of first test pre 122
post 450
more test done in september 2010 (biochemistry) have results of that too
culture and sensitivity test done injan 2010 ( also have those results)
Biochemistry and Hematology completed June of this year (have those too)
another Bio done and stim on June 6th of this year
stim pre 127
post 789
Nika's symptoms aside from test results....accidents in house beginning shortly after we moved in 3 years ago (blamed it on stress from move and change in career for me and the fact that we have a pool now and she DOES NOT like when people are swimming)
I think it was a year ago that I felt something wasnt right and had blood work and xrays done on belly area...discovered a small liver
For a while now ( a few months) Nika has been a large drinker, increase in appetite, accidents in the house, grumpy, panting ( kept us awake at night)...and these all got worse when I had the stim test last month because Cushings was suspected (test was done on Friday and symptoms seemed to be blown out of the water...or maybe I just payed attention more:confused:
I would like to know which tests results you would like me to post here.
thankyou again so much for being there...it means more to me then you could EVER imagine.....Lynda and Nika

[addy]

Hi and Welcome from me as well though I am sorry that you had to come to our forum because of a Cushings diagnosis.

As far as knowing what to post for your pup's test, the moderators like any abnormal levels with the normal ranges indicated for any chemistry panels, urinalysis, etc.

Cushings is a hard disease to diagnosis as other illness can mimic it and the tests used for diagnosis can give you false positives as well as false negatives. Our resource section has many good articles to read through. A strong history, physical symptoms, physical exam of the dog are key elements to diagnosing.

Hang in there.

Hugs,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

Hello Addy and thankyou for the welcome. I am sorry but still trying to understand what to post ( I have 9 sheets in front of me of test results). Am I correct in posting any number that are not within the normal range? I am also wondering if I should post other normal ones that were done that were used to rule out other illnesses?..not sure exactly which ones they would be, but I did have a senior bloodwork done and her thyroid was one of them to be checked, and I do believe that diabetes was another? sorry for the obvious confusion, maybe I should see if I can get my scanner working on my laptop and just scan them? I just dont want you all to miss seeing something that could be important to know..Thankyou again, I am anxious to see what is said about my girls results...Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda and welcome to you and Nika! :)

The test results we would like to see are the following - LDDS, HDDS, ACTH, ultrasound, UC:CR, and any abnormal levels from the blood chemistry. If Nika has had any of these test, please post the actual results along with the units of measurement (ug/dl, mnol/l, ect.). We can convert the units into a form we are familiar with if they are different.

You are doing a great job! I was such a basket case when my Squirt was first diagnosed that I couldn't comprehend a single thing! :rolleyes: Most of my time was spent in tears, squeezing the crap out of her in fear, sitting in front of my computer desperately searching for info and help. I finally found our home and family here and things started to get much, much better. Now, over 3 years later, we are doing very well and I only panic about once a month. :p

The most important thing I can tell you is this - you and Nika are not alone on this journey. We will be here, by your side, the whole way. Never hesitate to ask any questions and we will do our best to help. If you ever just need to vent, we also have big ears willing to listen. When things get tough, we are here to hold your hand. You always have a safe place here. And I am so glad you found us! :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Hello Leslie...thankyou for all that you have said..today I am feeling like a basket case and I actually thought I was getting better with all of this. Maybe I am finally feeling that I am not alone any more, and it is hitting me emotionally. I know that I need to stay strong and calm for Nika, and also my other girl who is definitly being affected by all of this.
now to the test results. I know which results that were the ACTH but it doesnt say those letters? I only know because of what I have learned here so far...here they are,
first test 2010-04-13
Cortisol (pre) 122 ^ normal range 15-120 nmol/L
Cortisol (post) 450 normal range 220-550 nmol/L
had bloodwork done 2010-09-15
out of the list there is one in bold letters and an arrow pointing up, it is
ALP 359 ^ reference 24-141 IU/L

had lots of bloodwork done and was received on 2011-06-09
results in bold are
ALP 506 ^ reference 24-141 IU/L
Triglycerides 3.86 ^ references 0.12-1.60 mnol/L

under a list titled Differential
Neutrophils results- 81.7 reference 11.8 ^ 3.0- 11.5 x10E9/L
says under Morphology
WBC MORPHOLOGY
Neutrophilia mild

2011-06-11
cortisol (pre) 127 ^ 15-120 nmol/L
cortisol (post) 789 ^ 220-550nmol/L

last test (first one since on Vetoryl)
cortisol (pre) 23 15-120
cortisol (post) 38 (arrow pointing down) 220-550 nmol/L

there is a note at the bottom stating that the reference ranges are for normal animals not recieving any type of medication. Interpretation will vary for pets receiving therapy for hyperadrenocorticism.
My vet said that she wants Nika's range to be 40-250 nmol/L

I hope I typed these correctly. If there is anything else please let me know. I have not done an ultrasound on Nika (we sadly cannot afford it). I have a question..what is a Free T4..I know I saw that here somewhere and cant remember?
Nika is allergic to the rabies vaccination and I have stopped giving her her yearly ones as well ( her liver being so small and she had a reaction to the rabies vaccination)
again...thankyou... if I can think of anything about my girl I will add it here...Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

hello everyone..I got the results of Nika's latest tests and I would like to convert the reading so it is understood here better...how do I go from nmol/L to ug/dl ?...I want to make sure I do it correctly before I post her results...thankyou Lynda and Nika

[lulusmom]

Just divide the nmol number by 27.59 and you'll have the ug/dL.

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou lulusmom!!!!...here are her results
pre 1.2
post 5.04
her liver enzymes are still elevated and all of her electrolytes are within normal range....I think I am happy right now?

[lulusmom]

Those are great numbers! Congratulations. Liver enzymes take some time to return to normal and they may not ever drop to within the normal reference range. As long as the elevation is mild, not to worry. I think you have every reason to be happy so go out and celebrate. Just make sure you keep us updated.

Glynda

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou soooo much lulusmom!!!!!....our vet and I are happy but I really needed someone from here to confirm how I feel....I have been a wreck since this all started...Nika seems so much happier and I can see my girl slowly coming back...I will definitly keep you updated on how she is doing....thankyou again...so much!!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

WOOHOO!!!! Great numbers! :D You will start to see your old Nika in no time now! It was such a joy for me to see Squirt start to play with toys again and I can't wait for you to have that blessed moment too!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

hello everyone...we had another terrible thunder and lightening stom last night and my poor girls were an absolute mess...Nika goes into our basement where I have a spot set up for her and she just becomes paralyzed...(my other dog tries to sit on my head, she wont leave me when she is scared)...I just put a call in to Nika's vet to ask about Meletonin and if she can have it. I am wondering if there is anything more I should know about in case my vet hasn't heard of it...is it natural?..can I even buy it here in Canada?..I have a natural store that I go to regularly and should I be able to find it there?..sorry for all of the questions but I am just so worried about my girls when we get these storms and because of where we live we get them pretty bad. Nika stays affected for some time afterwards as she stresses so easily. thankyou for all of the wonderful info I have read on here...I would not be where I am if it wasnt for all of you here....thankyou for any help you can offer...hugs from Lynda and Nika ( and now Stormy)....(I was giving rescue rememdy for situations like this but it just is not working anymore...)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

A friend of mine has a pup who is also terrified of thunder, firecrackers, etc. and she has started using the Thunder Shirt with good luck. Here is a link about them in Canada -

http://www.thundershirt.ca/?page_id=2

And here is a link about melatonin for you -

http://www.drugdigest.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/c1/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3hjA3cDA3dnz1ADN09jA0 8LD18LH8cgoKihfjhIh1m8AQ7gaKDv55Gfm6pfkJ1XDgA3455Z/dl2/d1/L0lJSklLVUtVSklKSkpDZ3BSQ2dwUkEhIS9vSHd3QUFBWVFBQU VJSWdsRVU1QUFHTVlJU0pLMHJVbEdzYTBqQSEhL1lCcHhKRl9O N0R3NDEwLTRrc3V5cjBzbnl2dyEvNl8zMEcwMEdDSVUwRkkzME k4SE04TEFSMzBHMS83XzMwRzAwR0NJVTBGSTMwSThITThMQVIz MDgyL25vcm1hbC92aWV3L3NlYXJjaC9zdGVwL3NlYXJjaER2aA !!/?searchString=melatonin&x=7&y=15&select_category=3

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou so much for these links Leslie!!!!...I really appriciate you taking the time for my girls..I can't see Nika wearing the thundershirt though, she doesnt even like to wear her backpack on walks, but thankyou for the suggestion I think it is amazing!...thankyou also for the other link, I read up on it and even found some more links to check out. I am now waiting for my vet to call to see what she thinks..I really hope it will be okay for her to take because she can't go on like this, and we have some more storms coming in and throughout this week....thankyou again, I will let you know what she says...hugs Lynda and Nika(and now Stormy)
and thankyou also for the encouragement on Nika's numbers being so good...you are so right...except for the weather I am definitly seeing my Nika come back..sometimes I just sit there in amazment as I watch her play bow to her sister and start ripping it up in our yard!..makes me so happy I actually cry with happiness....it is like a miracle..

[frijole]

Melatonin is widely used by humans here in the US. My dog has used it for years- she is real skiddish.. firecrackers and lightening can set her into a total panic attack. It calms her down and allows her to sleep but yet it isn't a narcotic/opiate thing ... just a calming factor. Kim

[jmac]

Hi Lynda & a belated welcome to you and Nika!

I just read through your thread, and I can also totally relate to the sadness and panic you were feeling, as well as the sense of relief when something seems better.

I joined in March when my Shih Tzu, Hannah, was diagnosed, and it has certainly been a roller coaster experience. This forum is definitely a life saver--or at least a sanity saver! I am so glad you decided to join, because everyone really is caring and helpful.

I wanted to comment on your thunder issue. My other dog, Izzy, is TERRIFIED of thunderstorms. She pants, shakes, climbs us, tries to sit on our heads...it is terrible. When it happens at night no one gets any sleep, and it is frustrating for us and horrible to watch her and imagine what she is going through. We did get a thundershirt off of the website you were given. I also found a coupon online for free shipment. The best thing is that they have a money-back guarantee, minus shipping.

It has definitely helped for Izzy. She isn't completely stress free, but there is SIGNIFICANT improvement. In a bad one, she will at least sit in my lap (there is still sometimes shaking or panting), rather than climbing all over me and being unable to even get settled. In mild storms, she is a little better, and can just lie down next to me (usually touching my body for comfort, of course :)).

So glad to hear you had good results for your girl! I'm also hoping the people who doubted whether you should treat her will see how well she is doing. I'm so glad you found this forum. It definitely provides peace of mind, and I find myself checking everything I hear with these wonderfully helpful people as well.

Hope things continue to go well for Nika!

Julie & Hannah (& Izzy)

[Nika'sMom]

hi Kim...thankyou for sharing with me your use of Melatonin for your pup..and you have used it for years?..that sounds so encouraging. I just got home from work and my vet has not called back yet but I went out and bought some earlier today at my health food store. I have decided that if another storm rolls in before I hear back from her ( like tonight) I will give her some anyway. The thought of her going through that again scares me so much and I feel so helpless...I purchased the liquid form of Melatonin..have you used it?..I do know how to give her the proper dose..one dropper full is 3 mg....thankyou again...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Julie and thankyou for the wonderful welcome!...and thankyou for letting me know how you feel about the thundershirt!!!!....I am seriously thinking of getting one for my other girl ( I know Nika wont wear one but my other girl might, she loves her backpack and carries it with pride)...and hearing from someone that actually uses it really helps me in deciding weather to try it or not, it does look amazing and it makes so much sense:) ( my other girl is the one that sits on my head and climbs the walls, pretty scary)..As far as other people and how they feel about what I am doing?..I am to the point now that if they dont understand, or even want to, then so be it. I love my girl and I will do whatever I possibly can for her. I almost feel sad for people who dont have the love and bond with a furkid like I do with mine. I feel they are missing so much in life. I am so glad I found this wonderful place too. I don't think there is much here that I havent read! It is almost addicting. I feel like I am still learning so much yet I still have so much to learn :ot thankyou also for your well wishes for me and my girl...hugs Lynda and Nika

[frijole]

No... I didn't use liquid form.. I just buy the pills at the health food store. (regular, not fast release) I am confident that it will help with fear from storms. Many of us here have used it. Keep us posted. Kim

[Nika'sMom]

I just spoke to a vet tech and she said that our vet has done some research and would like to talk to me about my question of giving Nika Melatonin juring storms...I am so glad that she is doing so much for my girl and not questioning anything that I throw her way..I feel very lucky to have her looking after my Nika. I have never trusted a vet more in my life. I am assuming that she is being so careful because of Nika's other issues, small liver, allergic to rabies vaccination, I am anxious to hear what she has to say. Will let you know when I get back. On my way now ( can't believe how quickly she can see me because of my work schedule, good thing that the clinic is around the corner from me). Thankyou all again for being here...hugs Lynda and Nika

[addy]

Hi,

My Zoe was on melatonin for her intermediate hormones and a side benefit was that it helped her with her fear of storms.

We subsequently took her off the daily does of melatonin when we started treating her with Trilostane. We had a few storms where I had to give her melatonin but for some strange reason she does not need it any more. Perhaps her lower cortisol helped, I am not really sure.

I guess we just never know.:);)

Hugs,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

That is interesting Addy that your Zoe no longer needs help for thunderstorms...I hope that happens with my Nika some day soon...
My vet did do some research on Melatonin because she has never used it herself and neither have to other 2 vets at the clinic. She went further to ask other vets and some do with success and some without. Anyway, after discussing the seriousness of Nika ( and Storm's) reactions I brought home a script for alprazolam...I will be using the Melatonin and the meds will be here in case it doesnt have an effect that helps. I am not keen on giving drugs but seeing my girls that way is so horrible that I will if I have too.
Thankyou for the info on this and just knowing that so many of you here use this, really helps. I had never heard of this before and I feel so much better now that there is help, especially with a storm moving in tomorrow.
many hugs Lynda and Nika (and Stormy)

[Nika'sMom]

Hello everyone...update on Nika and a very serious situation (to me) that I need some help with....first.... Nika is doing FANTASTIC on her Vetoryl...all symptoms are back to normal and she is a puppy once again. She is blowing her fur...the golden is now turning black when it comes in, but she is looking like she did when I first got her as a young girl:D....(I told her that she could lose all of her fur and be naked and I would love her just the same:)...she loves to play, and I tear up every day when I see her "smiling" and strutting around our backyard..She is due for her 3 month stim on the 8th of September....Now for my serious situation...A year ago I found a lump on Nika's side, right in front of her right hip....it has grown considerably since then and although her vet is concerned...we have put it aside for now...we just wanted to get the cushings under control first....and although I do believe that her numbers may be "slightly on the high side...I now want to deal with this mass...I just had a talk with my hubby and what I want to know from anyone here who can help, is....do I get a biopsy done?...or do I have it removed?....We will find the money to do this...if, our vet feels that she can handle the surgery (being put under might be an issue because of her small liver?)...I told my husband that I was going to ask you all for some advice and then I will contact the vet to set up an appointment to discuss this with her....this mass has been eating me up inside for a year now and I just want some closure on it..I need to know what is up with my baby.
Today I was downstairs with my girls( I have another pup as well) and when I said to them "lets go outside" they both went for the stairs and Nika fell on her right side, when she got to the stairs....it was quick and she recovered instantly....but it was a reality check that I HAVE TO GET THIS LOOKED AFTER NOW....I will wait until I hear some advice and then I want to make an appointment to get going on this..I want this taken care of yesterday:eek:...thankyou again for all that you do...I have learned so much here that it is crazy!!!I have ordered a thundershirt for my Kelpie:D...I am thankful beyond words about Melatonin..(we were on red alert this past wednesday for tornadoe watch...I was told to leave work so I flew home (no pun intended:D) and gave my girls each a shot of it and I am so amazed at how much better they did...it was CRAZY here...and they did so much better:)..I was a wreck and they kept me calm:o..also...it was brought to my attention through another thread about "to fast or not to fast" on a stim day?....contacted my vet and straightened that out too because it wasnt being done right...I think I could go on forever here ( I am a babbler:D)...but I must go and make my supper...thankyou in advance for any advice that ANYONE has....this is stressing me out and I want so bad to get this dealt with...I love my girl and I want her with me for a very long time...she is only around 7 years old?....hugs to all from Lynda and Nika
P.S. the vet clinic that I go to, that has three vets, are known to be the best surgeons in the area...which is why I chose to go to them when we first moved her 3 years ago....this makes me feel good with the situation with my Nika..:)...thankyou...

[frijole]

Both my dogs got lipoma tumors. If they weren't disturbing anything I let them be. My Annie had one on her tummy that was just huge and scared me. I could tel it was lipoma because it wasn't hard. I just waited til she had a dental appt and would be put under for that and had them remove it.

Did your vet say anything about what they thought it was? I do agree if it is in the way of the hip and getting bigger you are better off getting it removed while she is young. Not sure I helped at all but this is all i know. :D Kim

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Kim!!...and yes you have helped me alot....My vet did not say what she thought it was...she just said that she didn't like it and wanted to keep an eye on it...then when I brought it up again at a later date..she said something like " we will deal with this a bit later?...sounds weird now that I think about it (I am suspecting this is not good)....anyway...it is not just fatty tissue, in my opinion..it is hard, which is why I am so worried..I really do want to just have it removed. I was just wondering if a biopsy might be the way to go, and if it is nothing I can leave it...seems like I should just get it gone? I am so worried about this and I am also so thankful to get someone elses opinion...thankyou...hugs from Lynda and Nika

[labblab]

P.S. the vet clinic that I go to, that has three vets, are known to be the best surgeons in the area...which is why I chose to go to them when we first moved her 3 years ago....this makes me feel good with the situation with my Nika..:)
Hi Lynda,

I'm so glad to hear that Nika is responding so well to the Vetoryl, but so sorry to hear that you have this additional worry about the lump! But it sounds as though you are very lucky to have a vet clinic with such excellent surgeons on board. And that being the case -- I really think you need to defer to the opinions of the vets at your clinic as to what the best approach is regarding this lump. :o

My own Cushpup developed several lumps during his lifetime. All but one turned out to be lipomas, just like with Kim's Annie. One large lipoma behind his shoulder had to be removed because it was interfering with his gait. But one other small, rather innocent-seeming lump on his hip turned out to be a cancerous mast cell tumor, and so it also required surgical removal. With all of my dog's lumps, my vet first took a needle biopsy to try to determine the nature of the problem. That way, we had a much better idea as to what we were dealing with and how extreme the surgical removal needed to be. But with some tumors, an initial biopsy may not be the preferable route. And I think you really need to depend upon the expertise of the vets at your clinic in terms of making that decision.

Since Nika now seems to be stabilized with her Cushing's treatment, I'd encourage you to go ahead and make that appointment with your vet, and just find out what route she thinks is best. We'll be very anxious to hear what you find out, and what her recommendations turn out to be!

Good luck and my best wishes to you and Nika,
Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Marianne for sharing your story and for your honesty..I have an appoinment with Nika's vet tomorrow morning at 10:40. I am scared, actually, I am petrified.I am glad that we are going to finally look into this further, but Nika has been doing so amazing with treatment that I guess I was just hoping this lump would just go away with time. I know that we needed to get her cushings under control, but now I am worried that I waited too long to deal with this lump. I am a worry wart for sure. I keep going to her this morning and feeling the lump, actually believing/hoping that it is going to go away...I know it seems crazy but now I am all upset and tomorrow seems so far away. I am not very good at waiting. I am trying to think positive about this, but I just know something is wrong. Nika does have some other lumps on her sides and our vet did say they were nothing to worry about ( I remembered that this morning, cant believe I forgot:o)
thankyou again for being there and helping me in ways that mean so very much to me. I know this is going to make me a wreck but I have to deal with it now. I dont think I am making much sense right now...just upset...I will let you all know how the appointment goes tomorrow...I am praying for good news...hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

I want to share a story with you about Squirt and me. A few months ago we were laying in bed and I was rubbing her tummy when I felt a lump. As I explored, I found 4 or 5 more lumps. This was about 10pm. By 11:30 I had diagnosed cancer; by 8am it had metastasized. :o So after a few tearful phone calls, I headed to the vet convinced I was on my way to hear a death sentence for my Sweet Bebe. Thank goodness my vet is accustomed to my tears 'cause I was in a state by the time I got to the clinic. :rolleyes::o

Dr B examined her and told me he found 3 tiny lipomas on her chest and they were nothing to worry about unless they grew to a size to interfere with her gait. Well, that was nice but what about the lumps in her abdomen?! He felt of her belly again and said he didn't feel anything and I told him they were more easily felt when she was laying on her back so we flipped her over on the exam table and he checked again. After just a second or two, he leaned over the table and whispered, "Those are her boobies." I thought he said it was "poopies" and I dropped my head on Squirt's chest and asked, "You mean I have been up all nite bawling because you needed to poop?" Dr B said, "Not poopies, boobies, you big boob!" :p

I understand your fear and, if you are like me, the worst possible scenarios are playing through your mind like an endless movie. I hope that, like me, your fears are not confirmed and you leave the vets office tomorrow with a lighter heart and an embarrassed blush. ;)

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Leslie...thankyou for sharing your boobie story:)...we definitly have alot in common when it comes to our worries about our pups....I sure chuckled when I read your story and I thankyou for that. I am so glad that it all turned out so well for your baby. I am definilty expecting to hear the worst and I am so glad that I can come in here and talk about it. thankyou so much for your kind thoughts and wishes about our appointment tomorrow. I want to walk out of there on cloud nine with happiness. I know I will cry no matter what I am told:o (I hope I can hold it in until I get to my car at least..might not be able to keep it in that long this time)...When I went to the vets on Friday to pick up more Vetoryl for Nika, and make her appointment for her next stim...the staff asked how she was doing...I told them "amazing", and then I choked up and my eyes watered. I didn't realize until that point just how well she was really doing ,because I really dont have anyone to talk to about it as much as I would like to..except for my sister and she lives a few thousand miles away from me and the time zones can be a problem sometimes when one of us needs to talk about our furkids...anyway...I am babbling again:o...thankyou so much to all of you for being here...I don't know what I would do without this wonderful group of caring people....many hugs to you from Lynda and Nika

[addy]

Just sending love and hugs and positive vibes, I know how scary it can get and the stress makes the tears come easier.:)


Hoping for a good vet visit.

Love,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Addy for your kind words and well wishes....we had a great visit!!!
Dr. H asperated(sp) the mass and it is a lipomas :)...although it is in a, not so good spot, she doesn't want to rush in to surgery right now. It is deep and it could invade other things?..but we will keep a close eye on it and go from there. We also discussed Nika's anal glands again..this is the second time they have been full since being on Vetoryl (first time was four days after starting her on treatment)..I have been putting Metamucil in her food for a few weeks now and it has been helping, I am going to stop it for a couple of days and see how she does..Dr. H wants me to call then and tell her how she is doing ( we had quite the conversation about poops :p)
One more thing I really want to share with you all..and I had to fight back tears when Dr. H asked me about this...she would like to write an article about My Nika!..She wants others to know more about this disease and Vetoryl and diet and just how well a pup can do when dealing with Cushings. She wants to use pictures of before and after :)...I now believe that I know why My Nika got this disease, to help others become more aware of it and trust that there is help? Although Nika has only been on Vetoryl since June 17th of this year, she has done so wonderfully that it seems a miracle ( to me anyways :)) her symptoms are under control, her arthritis is not bothering her yet and her energy level is like a puppy at times, alot of times:D
Thankyou all for being there and doing what you all do so wonderfully for others....and thankyou for letting me share my Nika's and my journey so far...I am so anxious for her next stim and I will let you all know as soon as I get the results.
Many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

Oh, we really do need a dancin' mama icon! :p I am SO glad to hear this report! :cool::D YIPPEE!!!! :D:cool: I know you feel 20lbs lighter today! ;)

That is wonderful that your vet wants to write a paper using Nika! She's gonna be famous! Ok, more famous than she is now! :p I also think it is admirable of your vet to want to learn more and share what he learns with his peers. We need more vets with that kind of devotion and attitude!

Oh, I am just so happy for you and for Nika! :D:D Thank you so much for sharing good news, something we all love to hear as often as possible!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

YIPPEE!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I am so glad you came home with smiles. Your vet sounds like a keeper;) I am so glad he wants to write about Nika. You will have to make sure to get a copy of the paper.

I love discussions about poo:rolleyes: I'm kidding but I have had my share of them for sure.

It is news like this that continues the hope and we sure do love to hear it.

Hugs and love,
Addy

[labblab]

I want to say "ditto" to everything that Leslie and Addy have written!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

Please give Nika a big hug for me, and know that I am sending you many hugs, too! ;)
Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

Leslie, Addy and Marianne...thankyou all so much for sharing in my excitement over Nika's super vet visit. I have been on cloud nine ( and yes...I do feel extremely lighter :))...I tried to reply here yesterday and I forgot to hit the remember me, button :o...I was already running behind to get to work so THIS time...I remembered:D
Dr. H called this morning to talk about NIka's issues with her bowel movements( the change in them)...she seems quite concerned with the change? she said she wants to make sure that it isn't a bowel/anal gland issue. So...I am taking her off Metimucil (sp) and I am going to try pumpkin ( I found 100% organic pumpkin just for pups :D )and I am also adding omega-3 supplement to her diet ( and my other girl's too)...we will see what happens and go from there. I am surprised that I'm not stressing about my vet's concerns about this...this is the first time that I'm not and she is :eek:...
I feel it is because of the Vetoryl and by adding some extras to her diet should help the situation. I cant seem to find anything that says that Vetoryl can cause these issues, but she never had them before, which is why I believe it's the meds.
thankyou again for your happy and kind words about my Nika...I will share the article as soon as it is done (will be a while, but it will get done)...will continue the poo talk :p soon I am sure LOL...I will let you know how she does on the new things that I am adding to her diet, starting tonight...many many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[MBK]

Hi, Lynda -

I just wanted to say a belated welcome to you and Nika. I am sorry for why you are here but happy to hear how well Nika's treatment is going!! The people here are very kind and supportive, not to mention EXTREMELY knowledgeable. It is a big help to be able to "talk" to others in the same boat and who are crazy about their dogs. I think we all enjoy hearing about the success stories so that is awesome that Nika's vet wants to write about her!

I give my dogs canned pumpkin every now and then to add a bit of fiber and just for a treat. I tried the kind especially for dogs (which cost a lot more and sounded great!) and my two didn't care for it. They seemed to prefer plan old Libby's! So just in case Nika doesn't care for the dog one, try the people variety! ;)

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Mary Beth for the welcome and for the heads up, on the pumpkin :)...so far so good with Nika, she really likes it and I hope she continues too!
Yesterday was stim day for Nika, her 3rd month one....and here are the results...pre 1.9 post 4.9 :D
her ALP has come down as well..was 519 IU/L and is now 371 IU/L :D
I am so doing the happy happy dance!!!!!..if all goes well then Nika won't have to go back for any more tests for 3 to 6 months:D:D:D
It sure has been a great week for stims here :)
Thankyou again for all that everyone here has done for my Nika and myself. I have done nothing but brag to my vet and staff about this forum and all that I have learned..I told them to pass it along to the other's there with cushpups.
Well I must go and get ready for work now, sure wish the weekend was starting right now for me, who wants to go to work? I just want to celebrate with my furkids :D Many hugs to all from Lynda and Nika..

[addy]

We are all doing the HAPPY DANCE with you:D:D:D:D


We never tire of a good CHA, CHA, CHA, CHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been a good week and make sure you celebrate after work;)

Hugs,
Addy

[Cyn719]

Lynda -

YESSSSSS - THAT IS FANTASTIC NEWS!!!! THREE IN A ROW!!!! WOW!!! NOW WE HAVE TO ADD MORE CUSH PUPS TO THIS LIST!!! THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE MY DAY!!!!! YUP PENNY IS CELEBRATING - LAST NIGHT DAVE PENNY AND I WENT TO FIREHOUSE (A DINER ON WHEELS) YES OWNED BY A FIREFIGHTER - LOL - WE GOT STEAK SANDWICHES AND PENNY GOT A HOT DOG!!!! HER FAVORITE! LOL LOL ENJOY AND CELEBRATE!!!!! KISSES AND HUGS TO BOTH OF YOU AND PENNY IS SENDING A HUGE WET LICK TO NIKA!!
__________________
xoxo Cindy & Penny

[Nika'sMom]

I have been having problems with my internet service for some time now and I hope I have enough time to update you on my Nika before my service goes again..Nika has stopped eating. She was sick yesterday morning twice, then she ate only half her breakfast. She did get sick one other time in my dinning room but I am not sure when. She would not eat her supper last night or her breakfast this morning, I had already given her her Vetoryl so I managed to get a few healthy treats into her but she would only eat a few. I have put a call into her vet and waiting for her to call back. I am having some health issues myself and have to go out of town today to a doctor so I can't take Nika in. I am so worried about her ( and petrified about my health as well). Does anyone think this is from the Vetoryl? Is this common? Is she going to be okay? I keep telling my husband that I can't get sick now because I have to take care of my Nika. Oh dear, I am a mess today. Thankyou for letting me get this out, I am so worried about her and feel bad because I feel like I am not there for her when she needs me. My husband said that I need to take care of myself first so I can take care of my girls. I know he is right but he doesnt' understand that every moment counts with my Nika's health and I don't want to miss anything and lose her..ok...I am babbling again..I should post this before my service goes ( my phone service comes and goes too, and between my doctor, my boss ( I am off work till further notice) and my vet this is not a good time for service problems!...thankyou everyone in advance for any help...if I can I will let you know what her vet says...hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Since Nika is not eating and vomiting, if it were me, I would stop the Vetoryl. The Cushing medicines are strong drugs and should never be given to a dog that is not feeling well. It would be a good idea to have Nika's cortisol checked along with her electrolytes. Vomiting and not eating are signs of an Addison crisis which needs to be addressed.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

No more Trilo until Nika is feeling better! Is there any chance she has eaten something that has upset her system? Has it been raining in your area recently? Mine used to get spirochetes after rains because the rain washed the little buggers into our yard! :eek:

If you don't think this is digestive related, please get her electrolytes checked asap as well as an ACTH. And DO withhold the Trilo until this is straightened out. ;)

Keep in touch as best you can and know we are here for you and Nika!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Lori and Leslie...I sure wasn't thinking this morning when I gave Nika her Vetoryl...dam, my mind is so crazy right now. I haven't heard back from her vet yet but I will give her no more..I do not believe it is digestive related, not sure...she has been eating grass more then normal but I do not believe that she got into anything...I do watch my girls like a hawk and they are rarely out of my sight...never outside alone, and always with me when in the house. She is quieter then normal and a bit grumpy but not lethargic? what else should I look for...her poops have been normal although I am not sure if she went today. How do I get an ATCH test done if I can't give her her Vetoryl?...thankyou again sooooooo much for bringing this to my attention..sure am not thinking..I hope my vet calls soon...I have to leave in a bit for the doctors...this is not a good few days..many hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

When it is suspected that the cortisol may be too low, the ACTH can be done any time, along with the electrolytes.

Please take care of yourself as well. I know how difficult it can be to live with our own physical limitations and hardships as well as those of our babies.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Lynda - I hope all goes well with your appointment - my thoughts and prayers are with you - how much trilo is Nika on now? Stop the vetroly for sure!! When Penny needed to have her meds lowered she wansnt drinking much - had to really put some good food in her food to get her to eat - wasnt to interested in treats - basically just layed around (flat on her side) and slept - wanted to be alone - We had to stop the trilo - give pred - then we did a ACTH test before we put her back on the trilo to see where here levels were at - thats when she started on a new dose - let us know what the vet says - Love and prayers to both of you!!! Take care of yourself - hubby is right you need to take care of you first so you can take care of Nika!:)

[labblab]

Hi Lynda,

I'm hoping that by now you've had a chance to talk to your vet. I agree with the others that your vet will undoubtedly want you to stop the trilostane, at least temporarily. Having said that, I do think it will be surprising if Nika's problems really are caused by low cortisol since her post-ACTH result two weeks ago was 4.9 (after three months on trilostane). But until she's eating again and behaving normally, you don't want to take any chances. Since she just had an ACTH so recently, your vet may feel that it will be sufficient to check Nika's electrolytes just to make sure that they are not imbalanced. If they are OK, then it may seem more likely that it is something else, unrelated, that has caused the GI issues.

Anyway, we will be very anxious to hear how Nika is doing -- and also how you are doing. I am so very sorry that you having to shoulder worries about Nika and yourself, as well!! :( :(

Marianne

[Gusmonster]

Hi Lynda and Nika, I'm just starting this journey with my little guy so I'm not up to speed like all the other good folks here but I wanted to wish you well with your girl and express my sympathy. Good luck to you and Nika, Deb and Gus

[Harley PoMMom]

last test (first one since on Vetoryl)
cortisol (pre) 23 15-120
cortisol (post) 38 (arrow pointing down) 220-550 nmol/L


I was wondering when this stim test was done because Nika's post results are too low for a dog being treated with Vetoryl/Trilostane. The post of 38 nmol/L = 1.37ug/dl and according to Dechra when a dog's post cortisol is less that 1.45ug/dl Vetoryl should be stopped and not started until obvious symptoms return and the cortisol is higher.

[labblab]

Lori, Lynda can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ACTH result you are quoting was the first one that was performed back in June at the 10-day mark after Nika first started taking Vetoryl. Lynda's vet contacted Dechra and Nika's dose was lowered based on those results. Her subsequent two-week ACTH on July 12 showed that her cortisol level had rebounded to:


pre 1.2
post 5.04
her liver enzymes are still elevated and all of her electrolytes are within normal range....

And now her most recent ACTH performed just two weeks ago was:


Yesterday was stim day for Nika, her 3rd month one....and here are the results...pre 1.9 post 4.9
her ALP has come down as well..was 519 IU/L and is now 371 IU/L

So her last two ACTH results -- performed in July and two weeks ago -- were both very good.

Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

First I want to say a huge thankyou to everyone for responding and being so very helpful and concerned, you have no idea how much it means to me.
I spoke to the vet just before I left for the doctor and she said to call as soon as I got home..(she said she wanted to get her hands on Nika)I called at 5:30 when I walked in the door, and Nika had her first blood draw at 5:40..when we went back for the second I got the results of the blood work ( except for the ACTH which is on it's way to Toronto and I will know tomorrow)
Nika's electrolytes are fine :D and her liver enzymes have come down even more :D..we can't believe it!
Nika has lost some more weight she is down to 56 pounds now (from about 60 when this started)
I gave Nika a syringe of something to coat her while I was at the vets ( we kinda just took over while we were there;)) and then I remembered that Nika had been coughing/hacking/gagging? a bit lately ( remember I am not well so memory is not so good )
I have been given a prescription of Apo Doxy that she is to take for 14 days. I am to fast her tonight and then see if she will eat breakfast. I am to call Dr. H at 11 a.m. tomorrow to give an update, and if the stim results arent in yet, then she will call me when back they are, I will have the results tomorrow.
We both think that the results will be fine, but wanted to do it anyway.
It has been insane here today, actually for the last few days, and I want you all to know how much you have helped me. I love it when you tell me what should and shouldnt be done because it puts Dr. H and I on the same page...and of course with my brain not working lately:o it sure is nice to know that I have back up to remind me Not to give a sick dog these meds :o:o and that I should get her checked straight away.(at least I had that one right:o)
So now we wait to see if the new drug helps her feel better, and also for the results of the stim.
I am so very lucky to have Dr. H with me in this journey, but even more, I feel HONORED to have you all with me too:) I just don't know what I would do without everyone here.
thankyou from the bottom of our hearts, many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Lynda,

Wonderful news that Nika's electrolytes are good - that is a huge relief! Like Dr. H, I would expect the stim to be good as well. And I'm glad she gave Nika some ABs; hopefully, she will be feeling much, much better soon.

You did just right when the crisis arose - you contacted your vet and us! :) You already knew what to do but, like someone else I know very, very well :rolleyes::o, those things just slipped out of reach for a minute. ;) Any time something goes wrong for mine, my CRS takes over and I become a blithering idiot. :p So, IMHO, you did amazingly well!

Hope you get a good report from your doc and a plan of action that will bring you some relief as well.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

I have a really quick question that I need some guidence with. I have a call into the vet but I want to make sure I have my info correct. Nika's appetite is going down again...I feel she is uninterested in her food. I did some research on her food and I believe that it is garbage. Now for the question...should Nika ( on Vetoryl) be on a food that has high quality protien and low in fat? if this is the case I have her on the wrong food!!!!!...she is on prescription J/D for mobility...I just need to know what she needs in her food with the meds she is on...thanks so much for any help on this...I want so bad to get Nika back on track and I need help (still not feeling well so need some help to figure this out)......
just talked to a vet and told her what I just told you....did I get it right?...I am so confused right now...she is looking for a food to reccomend to me...I hope I got the info correct...thanks for your help...Lynda

[Nika'sMom]

I am googling and trying to find info on diet and vetoryl....I keep getting guided back here:)...where should I be looking for this info? I guess I am in a bit of a panic cause Nika's weight is still dropping and she has hardly ate again since Sunday...
her last test results are awsome which is why I am thinking the disinterest in her food ( and besides that I found out it is garbage according to a site I found)...
maybe I will find her lab papers and post the results here..could be that I am missing something?..be right back with that....darn...I need my brain back:o...hugs from one confused and slightly paniced mom..Lynda

[Nika'sMom]

here are the results from last Monday's test that I had done because of her symptoms of possible low cortisol levels..
these are just the abnormal results and her stim...

ALP 340 20-150 U/L (down from test a few weeks ago)
GLU 6.7 3.3-6.1 nmol/L

pre 99 15-120 nmol/L
post 112 220-550 nmol/L

converted hopefully correctly,
pre 3.58
post 4.05

everything else is within range. It looks like things are well on paper, just not on the visual....Thanks again. I have been meaning to get back here and post her results, sorry it took me so long...hugs Lynda and Nika

[addy]

Hi,

Quick question, first thing that came to mind: is it possible Nika has some tummy upset from the Vetoryl? Is she interested in any type of food? Gastro upset is a common side effect of the drug. Some of us will give Pepcid with permission from out vets.

Second: you usually want a good quality protein low in fat with moderate fiber, but you also have to take in to consideration any other health problems besides Cushings your dog may have.

Dogaware is a good web site to research foods.

Hang in there,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

Addy...thankyou for responding. She could have a tummy upset as she was sick last week and at the vets...was good up until sunday when she started eating less but not getting sick. Nika will eat her treats and still loves her carrots.
thankyou for the info on what to look for in food. Nika's only other issue as far as I know is that she has a small liver. she was put on J/D for her austioarthritis (sp)
I will search that site...thankyou so much. The info I had found on her food was dogfoodanalysis.com Now I will search the one you suggested....thankyou again Addy..I don't know why I feel so panicky about this except I guess cause of her weight loss so far. like everyone here we just want the best for our babies..many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Feeding a dog some extra carbohydrates with their meal may help in putting weight on a dog as long as the dog does not have diabetes.

[Nika'sMom]

thanks for that tip about the carbs...I did not know that. any suggestions of carbs for me to add?
I got a call back from the vets (not Dr. H but another one, Dr. H isnt in today)
She is trying to reccommend another one of the prescription foods. I have decided to go holistic like I did with my wolfhound when she was sick with cancer and didn't want to eat. I found a brand and although It is expensive, as far as I know it is one of the best out there.
hope I am doing the right thing. Like so many of you say "go with your gut"..so I am...thankyou for the help with this situation and the links (I have learned so much and was reminded of the holistic food) and the tips...I think I Need to go shopping now..gotta get my girl to eat...many hugs from Lynda and Nika...will let you know if my plan works....

[Harley PoMMom]

Here is a short list of Carbs that can be added: white rice (cooked very mushy), potatoes, noodles, and oatmeal.

[lulusmom]

Hi Linda,

Did your vet tell you why Nika's liver is small. In an older dog, this is usually a sign of chronic hepatitis. Since only the ALP is mildly elevated, I don't think that's the case here so I'm curious. Apo Doxy is Doxycycline and I'm sure your vet prescribed that because of Nika's cough. Being a rescuer, a good 80% of shelter dogs have kennel cough and Doxycycline is the antibiotic of choice for that condition. The number one side effect of that drug is nausea and loss of appetite. Did Nika's appetite lessen after starting the antibiotics? Finding a food that Nika likes that can help put on weight is fine but I would be more concerned about the reasons why she is not eating enough to keep her weight on. Did your vet have any ideas?

One of my Maltese boys, Jasper, stopped eating a few months ago and was very listless. I went through most of the good quality food on the market and he kept turning his nose up to everything I put in front of him. I found one food that he was slightly interested in and my other three were more than interested in it. It's called Deli Fresh by Fresh Pet. It's a chub (roll) that you cut and serve. It's a fully balanced diet that you can find in the refrigerator at Petsmart or Petco. Some grocery stores carry it as well. I did some research on it and oddly enough, it is very easy to digest and is good for dogs who have sensitive stomachs.

I was a bit concerned that after having been on a raw food diet for so long, my dogs would have some issues with diarrhea but that wasn't the case. Fresh Pet also makes a grain free food, also in the refrigerated section, called Vital. My dogs love that too so I mix the two. They both smell good enough to eat. The Deli Fresh looks just like pimento loaf so make sure you keep it in the wrapper or a family members might mistakenly make a dogfood sandwich. :D

Jasper is eating like a pig again since I figured out that his problem was a bronchodilator called aminophylline. Nausea and loss of appetite is a side effect. My His gp vet prescribed for continued coughing despite taking max dose of lasix. Unfortunately, I've had few vets who ever gave me a heads up on side effects so I usually scour the internet to educate myself on any drug I put in my dogs' mouths. Unfortunately, the sites I accessed did not list nausea and loss of appetite as a side effect. I kept researching to try to find out what was wrong with my boy and I finally found two sites that had nausea listed in the top three adverse reactions for aminophylline. I took him off of the drug and within three days, his appetite was perfectly normal again.

I have always shared my life with tiny toy dogs and I rescue tiny toys so karo syrup and/or Nutrical is always in my cupboard in case of a hypoglycemic crash. Nutrical is a high caloric supplement and appetite stimulant that is great for working dogs, high energy dogs and tiny toys. These dogs have higher metabolisms and burn through their fuel much faster than most dogs so supplementing is a good thing. You can find it at almost all pet supply stores. I believe Petco and Petsmart have generic brands which is much cheaper. Most dogs love the taste but if Nika doesn't, put a slab on your finger, open her mouth and smear it on her tongue or scrape it off on her teeth.

Glynda

[Cyn719]

Penny takes Pecid AC every morning cause she had stomach upset on the Vetroyl also - it helps - not sure if thats Nikas issue - it may help - Penny has the opposite problem - enlarged live - hope Nikas appetite gets better!!

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Lori for the list of carbs to add to Nika's diet...will see how the new food goes then add a bit to try to help with her weight..
Glynda..I do not know why Nika's liver is small, no answer was ever given to me. It was discovered over a year ago when I "felt" that something wasn't right with her and I wanted blood work and x-rays done..that was when the small liver was discovered, high enzymes and that led to a cushings test which showed that she was on the "high side of normal" (there were also other symptoms of cushings as well).Nika's appetite was bad before the antibiotics. The reason I took her was because she was vomiting and had stopped eating...that was when it was discovered about her cough and she was put on that drug. Her appetite did come back for a few days, although not strong, and of course now she isn't interested in that food anymore. I am also very concerned why she has loss her interest in this food. Today when she refused to eat again, I researched the "prescription" food that she is on and it is garbage. I was very upset to learn that I have been feeding her this:o..Nika has been slowly losing weight since being on Vetoryl and now I learn that the food is no good for her. I am aware that it could be a side affect from the Vetoryl but her vet said that she wasnt worried "yet"..well I am...I have purchased the food that I have had success with in the past and I am hoping that she will at least eat it. (still upset about the garbage that I have been feeding her, wish that I would have thought to research it earlier) Nika has been on the vets food since May 18th.
Thankyou Glynda for all the tips and suggestions through your experiences, it is a huge relief to know that there are so many options for me to try with my girl...I just know I will find one that works.I wish I could try them all now, but I know I have to start slow:o
thanks Cindy about your tip...Nika isn'tgetting sick this time around, just not wanting to eat, but if she does get sick again I will definitly talk to my vet about the pepcid..I see that is used alot here:)..I will do anything!
gosh...thankyou all so much..I am anxious to feed her tonight and praying that she eats. Maybe she is just letting me know that she needs better food:o..well I can always hope...
many hugs from Lynda and Nika...I will let you know how supper time goes...

[Cyn719]

How did dinner go? My little girl just ate - wasnt interested had to put alittle roast beef in it - dont know if that is a good idea but she ate! Not to happy with me - I had her outside and I didnt know it started to rain and when I did she was having a fit!!! - I let her out of the yard and she flew in the house so right now she isnt really looking at me - it was like I gave her a bath which she hates!!! Our sweet little ones!!!:D

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Cindy..I haven't fed her just yet, but will let you know...fingers crossed here..poor Penny, an unexpected bath and you get blamed for it:)...I am glad that she ate for you, I too will try whatever it takes. Yes...our sweet little ones:)

[lulusmom]

Hi again.

I forgot to mention something very important. If Nika is not eating, you should not be giving her Vetoryl until she has an appetite. The "you should never give Lysodren to a sick dog" rule applies to Vetoryl (Trilostane) too. A cushdog who is not eating should be considered sick. Letting the cortisol rise a little bit may even help stimulate her appetite. You should call your vet to discuss this.

Small livers are usually a sign that cells are dying, which is common in chronic hepatitis and cancer. :confused: I'll have to do a little research on senior dogs with small livers to see if that is normal for some dogs. I learn something new all the time.

As for the food your vet prescribed, I don't think it is bad for Nika. As a matter of fact, there is much research done on these prescription diets that prove they are effective. My issue with Hills is that with all their money, you would think they could develop something with human grade ingredients instead of the questionable fillers and nasty by products they use. If dogs don't die from eating Alpo or Old Roy's, I don't think any of the Hills prescription diets will kill them either. :D

Please keep us posted on Nika's progress.

Glynda

[Nika'sMom]

Leslie...thankyou for your kind words about how I handled my situation with Nika the other day...you always make me chuckle with your stories:)..I am just feeling like a bit of a bad Mom lately, almost like I am too sidetracked with other things and I am missing something important. Although, I still watch her like a hawk, dont let her out of my sight, make sure she is breathing properly and moving properly and...well..I am sure you get the picture :o...thanks again
hugs Lynda

[Cyn719]

I have to ditto that on stopping the trilo - Dr Allen did tell me to stop the trilo when in doubt it wont hurt - I forgot about that - thats why Glynda is the expert - thank you Glynda!!:):):) So I agree stopping it cant hurt and Nika may resume an appetite!!:) Also Dr Allen told me to give the Pecid at each AM meal even if the dog isnt getting sick to stomach - sometimes the dog can have a sour stomach and the Pecid makes it feel better and they then feel like eating ??

[Nika'sMom]

hi Glynda...thankyou again for the info. I love to "hear it like it is"...The vet I spoke to today did not say anything about not giving Nika her Vetoryl if she isn't eating:confused:..I just assumed that if she isn't vomiting?...it was fine?. From now on I will make sure she is eating first, before meds :o.Nika just had her supper with the introduction of the new holistic food that I choose, and she ate it like she hadn't ate properly in days:)...besides the new kibble, I am also adding a small spoon of the canned to entice her a bit...it worked...she even looked for more and I really wish I could have have given it to her..I can't wait to see her next poop:o...I also do understand why my vet first put Nika on the J/D prescription (Hills)..it was before her cushing's diagnosis. I was told that Nika's back end weakness(right side) was due to ostioarthritis (sp)...that was May 18th and she started Vetoryl on June 17th(shortly after cushings was confirmed)..the J/D is very high in fat and there is no good quality protien...and like you said ...questionable fillers and nasty by-products...I just don't like that idea..it has been labelled as a low quality dog food...maybe good for some.
Glynda..I really appriciate you doing some research about my Nika's small liver...I have tried and I just can't seem to find anything about it at all...thankyou so much! this has been bothering me since I was first told about it ( Dr. H. did say that her liver is functioning "normally")..also...good point about some other foods and it doing no harm :) I think I am just getting more paronoid as the days go on:o with my Nika
thankyou too Cindy for being there...I will definitly keep the pepcid in mind if she gets an upset tummy again...so far so good..and really hoping it continues.
I have learned so much today, and the one's to thank, are everyone here who was right there to help and guide me..again...thankyou doesn't seem like enough...bless you all...many hugs from Lynda, and a full bellied Nika:)...(I can't wait for breakfast:))

[Cyn719]

Lynda - yessssss so happy Nika ate!!:D:) What kind of food did you buy - in the process of changing Pennys food - good protien but low fat right??? I hope it continues - let me know how breakfast goes! Good girl Nika! Loves and Hugs from me and Penny

[Nika'sMom]

I just wanted to let you know that Nika ate breakfast this morning:) (She did not hesitate, or walk away and then come back)...she just ate it (then she did what I call "doing the dishes"..licked the bowl until it was clear across the room:D). she also had a perfect poo as well, yup, I was excited about that moment:o. I am crossing my fingers that this continues, and I continue to get my girl back.

Cindy, the food that I am switching Nika to is made by Merricks. I have her on the Senior Medley dry and also a small spoon of the Senior canned mixed in with it. They have a website that you can check out to see if you like what you see. If I remember correctly, there are based in Texas. I am impressed with their food ( as I was years ago with my sick wolfhound) and so glad that so far it is getting Nika to eat again. I am hoping that Nika was just not liking her food and I just needed to change her diet... time will tell if that was the problem. I can't believe how excited I am that my girl is eating:)..thankyou for being there and cheering my Nika on:D...many hugs to you from me, and a sloppy kiss from Nika to your Penny:)

[Cyn719]

OMG I use Merrick canned also - the senior - sometimes i try some of the other flavors but now I am not sure if I should just stick to the senior - I do not use the dry but I want to switch to it - using Purina One Weight Management - on my thread I posted the ingredients to see what the others use also -- so glad Nika likes it - Penny wont eat the dry unless I put in the canned - wow Nika and Penny have something else in common:D Keep up the good job mom - and Nika keep eating for mom!!!!!!

[Nika'sMom]

Just a quick update on Nika. She is still eating everything I put in front of her. I have yet to take her and get her weighed, thinking I will wait just a bit longer for her to hopefully put on some weight back on first. Her poops are still good. I am very happy still to see her enjoying her meals again. She looks more alert, wants to play more, smiles alot:D and runs, jumps and struts more then ever:)
Cindy...Nika gets a few other things in her food too..pumpkin, yogart, canned food and her omega's (liquid)...she probably wouldn't enjoy it either if it was just plain kibble, in fact...I am guessing that she probably wouldn't eat it :)
thankyou again everyone for being there for my girl..
many hugs, Lynda and Nika

[Cyn719]

Hi I did just switch Penny over to the Merrick Kibble - just alittle bit going very slow since she has had her issues - but eating isnt one of them - she LOVES it and I still put alittle wet merrick and then I want to switch that to the Deli Fresh - my pet store doesnt have it and with me going for test and Penny getting sick agian I havent had time - but wanted you to know she likes the Merrick - THANKS for the suggestion -- so Nika is on ? now for the Cushings??

[Nika'sMom]

I am not sure what I should do. I was woke up to Nika this morning about to be sick. I got her off the bed and she did throw up, just once and not since. It is getting close to her breakfast time now and she seems hungry. Do I still give her her regular breakfast and not her vetoryl? Should I just skip it for today and she how she is with the vomitting and if all is okay start again tomorrow? Nika seems fine in every other way besides this one incident this morning. Probably nothing, because I know that dogs can do this once in a while, but I just want to be sure what to do about the vetoryl. Thankyou...I see so much going on in here with so many pups, and this seems so minor in comparision...I just want to do the right thing...hugs from Lynda and Nika

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,

I don't believe I have ever posted on your thread. My personal experience and from what I have learned here with dogs on vetoryl who show any unusual signs, such as vomiting is to STOP vetoryl immediately and watch closely for any other serious symptoms thereafter. Obviously a follow up with your gp or ims would be warranted. I just went thru same situation with my baby and we got her in for a stim and seems her cortisol may have been going a bit too low, she has been off vetoryl for 2 weeks now and doing ok. When was the last time you had Nika stimmed?

please let us know how she is doing and wish you much luck.

Xo

[Nika'sMom]

Hello Mypuppy and thankyou for responding..I had Nika stimmed and her electroytes all checked in Semptember. I had this done because she had gotten sick a few times and had been not wanting to eat for while. I have since switched her food and she has been doing wonderful on it. everything came back normal, and her stim was pre 3.58 post 4.05 thankyou again, and I am glad to hear that your pup is doing ok off of the meds...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Nika ate her breakfast fine and so far so good. I did not give her her vetoryl. If all is well I will resume treatment tomorrow. If she gets sick one more time then it is off to the vets. I am hoping this was just a fluke and I am just being the parinoid Mom that I am. Thankyou again, it is so nice that I can come to a place that I trust more then anywhere with my Nika...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

Jennette gave you sound advice about withholding the Trilo when a pup is ill like this - for any reason. Since vomiting is a sign of the cortisol going too low, we need to be able to isolate the cause if possible but certainly make sure the med is not the cause. The only way to make this determination is to stop the Trilo until the pup is no longer vomiting, and/or having diarrhea, whichever may be the case.

You done good, Mom! :) Keep an eye on her today - HA! as if you don't anyway! - and if she gets sick again, you have the perfect plan in place...see her vet asap. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

This is one thing about Trilo that I do like - it can easily be stopped and restarted without losing much, if any, ground in controlling the cortisol.

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Leslie...yes Jennette helped me more then she knows...Nika's poop is still perfect and she is keeping her breakfast down. I am always nervous with the thought of her missing a dose, but I get it now, that in a case like this, it should all be okay. Gosh I can't believe how much this scared me this morning thinking that all heck was gonna break lose and something was horribly wrong. I feel good that she will be alright, but I guess that fear never goes away with our furkids. I see so many here going through soooo much and I just don't know how you all handle it. Everyone is so very strong and seeing all of this strength actually makes me cry, and I never seem to know what to say...Thankyou so much for being there Leslie and giving me the "good Mom" boost...hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Cyn719]

Hi Lynda -- its been awhile since you were on - I know thats a good thing - glad everything has been going good - until this AM - yes Jeanette gave you great information - my IMS told me when Penny is sick and vomiting just skip the trilo and resume the next day if the dog is better - the great thing about trilo is you can go on and off -- So everything has been good???? Hugsssssssss and a kiss for Nika xo

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Cindy...thankyou for letting me know what your IMS has said..I guess I have to get use to the fact that missing a dose once in a while is alright. I have been checking threads out here off and on but just haven't responded, still unsure of saying much yet I guess. You all know so much about so many things and I still have so much to learn and I am working on it.Still dealing with my health issues and quite stressed about it, so dont want to let my emotions take over anything I might say to someone here who really needs some sound advice...hugs back to you and I will pass the kiss to my Nika....please give one to Penny from me too....

[Harley PoMMom]

Please know we are here for you as well as Nika and we will support you in any way we can. ;):)

Trilostane can cause gastric upset so many members do give their furbabies Pepcid AC 20-30 minutes before the dose of Trilostane. Also, is Nika getting her Trilostane with her meal?

Sending huge and loving hugs,
Lori

[mypuppy]

hi again Lynda,
first I must apologize for not realizing I didn't sign my name to this mornings post. I'm Jeanette and mypuppy is Princess:p

I am so glad Nika is doing much better after today's episode, and trust me, I know what you mean when you feel like a basket case when they get sick, but only because we love and cherish our babies so much and understand the serious side effects of using these meds. please don't feel as if you can never offer anything valuable to this forum. We all came here together for one purpose, to educate ourselves in order help our precious babies and to help each other by sharing our personal experiences.

I am sorry to hear of your very own health concerns and certainly pray it is nothing you can't handle and shall soon pass. prayers going as we speak for that so you can get back to enjoying your beautiful girl (wow, I took a look at your pictures, and she truly is a beauty--love the face:).

Lynda, always a pleasure getting to know our new members and their pups--I only wish there were more hours in the day to dedicate to this purpose, but my thoughts and best well wishes are always my best intentions for all here, even behinds the scenes. Oh and some very tight hugs too.

Xo Jeanette

[Nika'sMom]

Lori, thankyou so much for your kind words, they really tugged on my heart strings and mean so much to me. I am amazed at how I feel after reading them. I have been feeling very alone the last while with this, and it is nice to know that others are there if I need them...
If this does continue to happen with Nika, I will definitly give the pepcid a try...and yes...Nika does get her Trilo right after she has eaten her breakfast.
Hello Jeanette and Princess, no need to apologize, you helped me so much by being there for me when I needed some help with Nika. Thank you also for all of your kind words of encouragement in helping to make me feel more comfortable about replying here. Thankyou very much for the prayers for my health, I am hoping to know more after more tests being done this Friday. Terrifies me that possibly, I wont be able to care for my furbabies, I cry everytime I think about that.
Both of you are amazing for offering what you have to me while I am going through this. If I could see through my tears, I could probably go on forever just trying to explain how it has made me feel.
Nika is doing fine today and has ate great since this began again yesterday. Poops are good and besides her being a bit grumpy ( she is off and on) Nika is just fine.
Thankyou, many hugs and tears of gratitude to you both...Lynda

[Nika'sMom]

Jeanette...thankyou for calling my girl a beauty. All of the furpups here are so amazingly beautiful and I feel as if I love them all even though I have never met them before.
Cindy...did you get my reply? did I do that right?...so much to learn here...

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,

just checking in on you and Nika and wondering how you are both doing today.

Thinking of you.

Tight hugs..Jeanette and Princess:p:)

[Rebelsmom]

Hi Lynda, my pup Rebel did the same thing to me last week. Had his blood work done just to check since it had been awhile for him. Everything looked great and we started him on pepcid. Knock on wood since he has been taking that he has been fine. He has been on 60mg BID of Trilo for almost 2 years now and this was his first "issue".

Melissa

[Cyn719]

Think of you and Nika

Merry Christmas

Love hugs and prayers xoxo

[Nika'sMom]

Hello, it has been a while since I have posted here. There are some things going on with my Nika and I am a bit confused.
First I want to thank those that have p.m.'d me, and I will respond to them real soon:)
Here is what has been going on with my girl. For a couple of months now Nika has been behaving very differently. She has been sleeping ALOT more, and VERY sound ( she even scared the life out of me when I had a difficult time waking her up one time, I honestly thought I had lost her in her sleep) she also seemed to get confused at times. For example, she would constantly ask to go out, and then it seemed as though she would forget why she went outside. Also with eating, at first she would look confused when I fed her, and she had just been excited about meal time. Also..she has been verbally grumpy, almost like she didnt want to be touched or bother with anyone. Nika had also been licking her privates almost constantly. She is showing signs of her levels possiby rising..a slight bit of panting, appetite is VERY GOOD, but not out of control, water intake has increased. No accidents in the house and no urinating more then normal.
I took Nika to the vet last Monday for a full exam, and a fresh urine sample in hand. An in house test was done and showed that her PH was high- it was 8..also a bit of protien, some crystals and slightly dilute.
We put Nika on Clavaseptin right away (I had remembered that this was the medication that cleared up her last UTI before, and also cleared the crystals that she had)..In the mean time I took in another fresh urine sample and a culture was done. Culture came back with "no growth", so no infection.
Nika's licking problem has almost stopped ( compared to before it seems normal now) Dr. H wants her to finish the Clavaseptin ( she was given 2 weeks worth)..I asked why to continue if no infection, was told it may be helping to acidify? her urine, and something about resistance to the meds?
Now Dr, H is researching the diet that I have Nika on, and also said something about looking into her Vetoryl ( contacting them) to see if this could cause the PH problems?.
OH...also, her vet believes that Nika is exhibiting signs of dementia and has put her on Novifit once a day. I am not sure which one is helping, but she does seem to be doing better, just grumpy off and on still.
After Nika's meds are done we will do another urine test and if all is well we will do stim and bloodwork ( she hasnt had one since September)..oh, another thing, I discovered another mass, it is on her right flank abdominal wall...not terribly worried but are going to do a fine needle aspiration at time of bloodwork.
I am confused because Nika was doing so well and now the problems with her urine. It is like the time before she was diagnosed with cushings..without the infections? I sure hope the diet I have her on hasnt done this. I worked hard to find a food that agreed with her, I discovered a probable source to her getting sick to her stomache ( I took her off of her yogart). She has not been sick since....the weight that she lost has been put back on (a little too much, so working on that now:o..and she eats every meal.
Gosh, I just realized that I am not even sure what advice I am asking for:o...I just feel a bit frightened with this, and I am assuming it is because I just have no Idea what is happening. I hope I am worrying for nothing.
Thanks for letting me get this out by sharing it with you all. Everyone else that asks about how Nika's is doing, panic when I tell them what is going on with her recently...and I can't even explain what it means:confused:...I asked her vet to explain again about the urine, but I just don't understand what she is saying. I have researched it and it could be things that I dont like, and seem to be common with infection, that she doesnt have:confused:.
Okay...I think I may have just confused anyone reading this, sorry about that :o...if by chance anyone has anything to offer, or if any of this makes some sort of sense, please share with me. I don't want to worry as much as I am ( not knowing is the worse thing for me, I would rather understand and/or know something..then absolutly nothing)
Thank to those that read this, I appriciate it more then words can say:)....many hugs from Lynda and Nika
P.S. I am feeling much better and although not back to my full hours at work yet, I hopefully will be sometime soon ;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

One thing I thought of when reading your post was the acidity of the urine and the crystals present. Do you know what type of crystals Nika had? Struvite and oxalate are the most common, I think. My Crys had struvite crystals and we had to keep her on antibiotics off and on. I also gave her dried cranberries every day to help increase the acidity of her urine. Struvite crystals have a more difficult time forming in higher acid environments. Her diet was high in protein to help combat the crystals forming as well. But this would be the wrong approach for other types of crystals so knowing what you are dealing with is important. It's good your vet is looking into the diet aspect. But more than likely you didn't cause this by changing her feed. Some pups are just prone to crystals and stones. ;)

I don't know how Trilo would affect the PH but seems like we have had other members with this type issue so hopefully they will stop by soon.

Another thought that flitted through! :p The apparent confusion when you put her food down. It could be that she isn't smelling as well as she used to so even tho she remains mentally excited about the prospect of food, when it gets there it doesn't smell right so she is wondering, "what the heck happened?" ;) You might try stinking it up a bit with some Parmesan cheese, green Tripe, tuna water, etc. and see if that helps. As we age, all our senses start to dim a bit, including smell, and that is an important part of a canine's digestive process.

Hang in there! I hope she is feeling much better soon. And I am glad to hear you are improving!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lynda,

Was Nika's urine PH levels always above 7 (alkaline) or is this the first time? My non-cushpup, Bear, always has an alkaline urine, Bear also produces oxalate stones which he has had 2 operations for.

[Nika'sMom]

Leslie, thankyou so much for repling to my post...you really helped me to feel less fear about this. I looked to see what type of crystals she had and has had, and all along they have been struvite. .this dates back to March 2010 when this all started with her first UTI. Thankyou for explaing a bit about them too, I haven't had much luck finding any answers about them yet. I never thought about the smelling thing with her food! It makes so much sense and thankyou for the tips on how to help her "smell" her food better when she gets confused!
Lori, I never thought to check her past records about her PH levels...so I did and I can see that from March 2010 her levels have been from 9, down to 5. Her levels got better after being on meds and risen when she got another infection. I am just curious why they are high this time when no infection ( that we know of) is present. I am sure it will be figured out, soon I hope. Thankyou for bringing this to my attention. I sure am glad that I was encouraged from this forum to get copies of all of Nika's records from our vet...it sure has come in handy.
Again, thankyou both for being there. It really helps to know that others have dealt with this sort of thing, and that there is always an angel ready to help with any situation that one of us come across. You guys are the best.
Love and hugs Lynda and Nika
Thanks Leslie...I am improving and it feels wonderful!

[Nika'sMom]

Hi everyone,
It has been a long time since I have given an update on my Nika. She has been doing very well. Nika's last stim was in june and her numbers were great..pre 1.05 post 2.93 Her ALP is still elevated at 450
reference range 24-141 IU/L
Nika has been happy, playful, loving her walks and her appetite has been normal. There has been the odd times where she has had an upset tummy, eating grass, but nothing to concern myself about (too much)
But..a little over a week ago I awoke to Nika about to get sick. It was liquid, but there was blood specs in it. Her vet, Dr. H wasnt in, nor were the other vets, just a new one that we had never met before. Long story short, I was assured it wasn't serious and she thought it looked like the cells in her asophagus (sp)..(I took it in with me, the vomit) I came home with nothing done (my choice) and decided to keep an eye on her. I was also concerned because she had lost 4 lbs.
This morning I woke to the same sound and she got sick and yes, blood specs. I called our vet and she is in today, so we have an appointment this morning, but I want some help/advice from anyone here before I go in with my Nika.
First..what the heck could be going on? I don't have any money really, but I am quite frightened about the blood. Her poops are fabulous :) and always have been. I guess I would like to know what Dr. H could possibly do to get to the bottom of this? I do trust her, but she also trusts me and you all here (she doesn't come here, I told her where I am learning about cushings) and I know that she will do whatever I ask because we have an amazing relationship. I just dont have a clue where to start.
Sorry for the ramble and jumping all over, and thankyou in advance for anyone who reads this and offers ANY advice. Honestly? I get this very strong feeling that my Nika needs to come off of her Vetoryl..just my thinking though,
hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

Good to hear from you again and good to hear that Nika is doing well with the Cushing's! :)

As for the vomit and blood - wish I could offer some insight but I'd be doing just what you are - getting to the vet asap. Let us know what you learn, 'k?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Nika's Mom and Nika:
I wanted to say hello to you both and welcome you. I am new here also and still in the "very scared state." This is the best place you could have come to. The members here are amazing. I hope God gives you and Nika strength for this journey, and that your baby does well on the Vetoryl. It has helped my Tipper's symptoms greatly. I don't think she could have stood any more panting, drinking gallons of water, and swelling of her tummy. Trust in the people here they know more than some of the vets out there. I know it seems your head will burst from so much info. It is necessary though, to educate yourself as much as you can, as it will only benefit you and Nika. Best of luck to you.

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Leslie and Tippers Mom for being there and taking the time to read my little dilema and offering your support.I have been wanting to come in here for quite some time now and tell you all the wonderful news on how well my girl is doing..well, she is doing well still, just a bit of a set back?
We were with Dr. H for over an hour this morning. I took a picture of Nika's vomit to show the vet...we talked and picked each others brains for a while, and then I started remembering more and more about things. When it got down to the physical exam, and she was checking her abdominal area, my Nika made a sound that I have never heard before.. a deep moan growlish..pain. Nika is a talker, but not like she did today. I am having a bunch of tests run right now, they are
diagnostic chem + CBC
Pancreatic cPL ( I wanted this one big time)
I brought home 2 scripts for Nika. Sucralfate and Famotidine.

Before we did the physical exam, we had agreed on just the meds for now, to see if there was improvement ( I don't have the money right now) but when we got her on the table and when she made that noise, I wanted a ton of tests done to start, as I am now quite frightened. I have never heard my girl in pain before and I am quite upset right now. My biggest fear ever, is one of my dogs suffering in any way. Can someone here tell me that they have heard their pup in pain like this and it's ok?..sorry, that is asking alot but this is new to me. Once the results are in and we see a bit more of where we are at, we will then decide on pain meds. Nika is only uncomfortable to the touch, right now she is sleeping and she loved her walked to and from the vets.
Could be an ulcer, something to do with her asophogus (sp) or something else. Her vulva has something going on too ( urine is the next thing on the list to be checked)..been having issues there for a very long time now..coming and going, but constant now...her licking is almost non stop. Alot going on with my girl and I am still trying to wrap my head around everything we discussed and all of the possibilities. I will be getting a call soon and then we will know weather we need to send her blood elsewhere for more in depth tests (I know for sure if the pancreas in high)
Thankyou again and I will let you know as soon as Dr. H calls me what is going on...hugs, Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Sounds like it might be a pancreatic issue to me, which can be very painful and why pain meds are important. Having the spec cPL test done is the only way to confirm pancreatitis, so I am glad this was done.

If pancreatitis is the culprit, then a bland diet is needed being fed 3-4 small meals a day. Having fresh water available at all times to keep her hydrated is also important.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers, Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

My first thought was also pancreatitis so I'm glad they are looking into that. Let us know when you hear from the vet on these tests. Sending positive thoughts that it will be nothing major and she is feeling perky again real soon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Lori and Leslie for your support and honesty. I am convinced that that is what it is too. I also think something else is up as well :( I will let you know as soon as I know, hugs Lynda

[lulusmom]

Hi Lynda,

Sorry that your girl is having a bit of a rough time right now. I wish I had some pearls of wisdom to share but wow, her symptoms are associated with a host of medical issues. At least one could be eliminated if Nika has been spayed. Yes or No???

Glynda

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Glynda and thankyou. Yes, Nika has been spayed.

[Nika'sMom]

I only have a moment to update because I have to leave for work shortly. First thankyou for all of your help. My Nika has Pancreatitis. My vet is fine with me treating her at home, for now. I have her on Tramadol for the pain, plus the other 2 meds I mentioned earlier. I have opted to home cook rather then prescription food ( I have cans for today and breakfast until I can go shopping for her food..chicken and rice.

Dr. H is having her blood checked at another lab. She wants to know the levels? She said it is called a spec cPL.. I will know those results tomorrow.

I have the lab work with me and I would like to post the abnormal levels when I get a chance. I am really scared here..I just pray that I can do my girl right and make her better. Dr. H. is on board with my home cooking with chicken and rice.. I am really confused exactly on how to go about it, and I am hoping that someone here can help. I know I have seen it here before many times, but my brain just doesn't want to work right now.

So just a quick update. I really don't want to go to work but I already don't have the money for this :o

thankyou again and I will be back as soon as I can to share the lab results...hugs Lynda and Nika

Oh..and one more thing. We are not done with testing..we have only touched the surface :(

[Harley PoMMom]

Pancreatitis is a nasty illness but it can be controlled. Feeding a very low-fat diet is vital. If you are going to be feeding her a bland diet I would suggest skin-less and boneless chicken breasts with white rice. When I was making this for Harley, I would roast the chicken breasts and rice together with lots of water. You want the rice the consistency of mush when it is done.

Here is a link to a web page that has a wealth of info concerning canine pancreatits:http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjpancreatitis.html

If I can help in any way, please do not hesitate to ask, ok?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Lori...thankyou. On my way home from work I bought chicken, the exact type you suggested :) ( it is the only chicken I eat as well) I bought a bulk pack of 5. I have rice here. I will check the link you posted, thankyou so much for that. When you say roast the chicken and rice together, do you just mean to cover them in water and cook in oven? I want to get up and get cooking first thing in the morning and to be honest, I feel so lost right now and knowing that you have been there really really helps. I have been told that Nika is allowed 500 g/day..(I think I am close to figuring that one out:o) How many times a day should I divide her amount of food allowed, and feed her? is 3 times a day alright?
I will post the lab results tomorrow when hopefully my emotions settle down and I can type without trying to see through tears..I am not taking this well,:o and I really hope that learning what I can, will give me the confidence that I need, to trust that I can do this.
Thankyou again, and I think I need some sleep now. Nika is comfy and I think I might sleep well knowing that...hugs and many thanks, Lynda and Nika

I have a very important question..do I stop Nika's Vetoryl?..Vet is going to check because she isn't sure, so none tomorrow (or today of course) If anyone can answer that, that would be great because we have no idea...

[frijole]

Just letting you know Lori is very experienced with pancreatitis and a great resource for you.

[Harley PoMMom]

When you say roast the chicken and rice together, do you just mean to cover them in water and cook in oven? I want to get up and get cooking first thing in the morning and to be honest, I feel so lost right now and knowing that you have been there really really helps. I have been told that Nika is allowed 500 g/day..(I think I am close to figuring that one out:o) How many times a day should I divide her amount of food allowed, and feed her? is 3 times a day alright?

I used a roasting pan for the chicken and rice but any kind of pan will do as long as it can go into the oven. I put chicken and rice in the pan and covered both with water and kept checking every 1/2 hour or so and would add more water. You want the rice to be as mushy as you can get it.

3 meals throughout the day will be fine, low-fat is most important.



I have a very important question..do I stop Nika's Vetoryl?..Vet is going to check because she isn't sure, so none tomorrow (or today of course) If anyone can answer that, that would be great because we have no idea...

If it were me, I would stop the Vetoryl until Nika's pancreas has calmed down a bit. The pancreas secretes enzymes that assist in the digestion of food. So, pretty much whatever goes in the mouth the pancreas will have to work.

Another important "job" of the pancreas is that it produces insulin, which controls the amount of glucose in our bloodstream. When pancreatitis occurs it is crucial to get it under control, which is usually not that hard to do.

Marianne (labblab) and Glynda (lulusmom) also have much experience with canine pancreatitis and I am sure they will share their advice as well. ;):)

Anything we can do to help, please just ask.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[labblab]

Hi from me, too!

I have just a moment to post this morning, but I agree with Kim that Lori is giving you great advice. Just to add a couple suggestions (my non-Cushpup has been troubled with acute pancreatitis, too)...

Chicken breast and white rice is great in terms of food. I cooked mine a little differently, though, just to give you another option which is a bit speedier. I boiled the chicken breasts in water, and cooked the rice separately on the stovetop, also. I used a ratio of approx. 1 cup of rice to 4-5 cups of water, brought the rice to a boil, and stirred pretty much constantly (like you would for risotto, if that makes sense). The rice really softens into mush relatively quickly. You can keep adding more water if you want the rice even mushier. They say that multiple, smaller meals is better during the recuperation. So if three is the number that is logistically most convenient for you, that is certainly better than one large meal. Oh, and as an alternative to the whole breasts, if you can find it you can buy ground chicken breast (make sure it's only breast and not just ground chicken, in general). You can quickly brown the ground breast in a non-stick skillet, and you're good to go. Actually, it is so lean that I have to coat even a non-stick skillet with some PAM or other low-fat cooking spray to keep it from sticking.

As far as the Vetoryl, I truly don't know the correct answer and I would defer to a specialist on that question. Elevated cortisol makes dogs more vulnerable to pancreatitis in the first place, so I don't know if you want to let the cortisol get out of control again during the recuperation from an acute attack. It shouldn't hurt to hold the Vetoryl for a couple of doses while your vet checks this out. But I don't know if you will want to hold it for a lengthier time. Again, I'd want the input of a specialist on that question.

Good luck!!!

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

How is Nika this morning? I hope you both got a little bit of rest at least and are ready to COOK this morning! :D Since we've moved and I have a kitchen again, sometimes it seems all I do is cook for the dogs...and, no, they they are not spoiled in the least. :p

Squirt had an acute pancreatic attack following surgery but her was handled differently due to the circumstances and thankfully she has not had another attack since. I know how terrifying it is when this happens, tho, but know you are in great hands with Lori, Marianne, and Glynda. OH! and your vets, too. ;)

Let us know how things are going!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Lynda, I see we've started a new page -- definitely go back to the previous page because you have a couple of new replies there, as well.

Marianne

[Steph n' Ella]

When I was cooking a bland diet for Ella (she was having poo problems) I had to put the rice and the chicken in the fridge/freezer for a bit before I could feed her. She was SO hungry watching me cook that I gave her the food straight off the stove top...oops! It was too hot! I just wanted to get some food in her to settle her tummy so bad!

I've been giving out this link a lot for slippery elm tea/soup but this holistic vet also talks about how a bland diet works and splitting meals into smaller ones to make your doggie feel better. He also bings up some good points on what to watch out for if your dog is on a bland diet long term...yeast!

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

[Nika'sMom]

good morning..oh my, I am so overwhelmed with help that is being offered and I don't know how to thank you all (as you can see I haven't got my emotions in check yet:o)
I was up first thing this morning and I came in here real quick to see how to cook, then I got busy cooking. Thankyou Lori and Maryanne on methods to cook, I went for the fast one today and I am glad I did because Nika would not touch her canned food, but I did get her to eat some rice and chicken.
Of course I didn't sleep all that much last night, I knew I wouldn't because of obvious reasons. Nika did sleep better then I thought she would, but around 3 this morning her stomach started making some pretty loud noises and I started to worry that she was going to get sick. She didn't stir until around 5ish? All she did was move to the other dog bed in my room and went back to sleep. This morning her poop was very lose ( NIka has always had the most perfect poops)..I am assuming they were lose because of only canned food for the previous 2 meals.
I still feel like I am in a haze (you should see the mess of my kitchen, you would think I had never cooked before) but I feel so good knowing the help I have here from you all.
Nika's lab results from yesterday are as follows,
Reference Interval
HCT 51.8% - 37.0-55.0 (high side of normal)

HBC 18.3 - 12.0-18.0 HIGH

PLT 518 K/ul - 175-500 HIGH

ALKP 515U/L - 23-212 HIGH

LIPA 4574 U/L - 200-1800 HIGH

SNAPshot Dx
cPL Abnormal

I will be getting the results today from the spec cPL that is being done right now, and I will post that as soon as I know.
Thankyou for the link Lori. I feel better knowing that it is information that I can trust. I really need to understand this better so I can relax and do my best.
Thankyou again ( I will never stop saying that) and if these numbers can tell me anything I need to know, thanks. Dr. H did go through them all with me when I went back yesterday to get Nika's pain meds and info, but yesterday is pretty much a blur right now. If there is anything else I can/should do, please tell me.
Can I still walk Nika? I know I can't do my usual couple of km, but can I still take her for a slow walk of maybe 15 minutes? Nika LOVES her walk soooo much. I won't if I shouldn't, I just need to know.
Thankyou again,
hugs Lynda, and a much more comfy, Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Steph n Ella, thankyou for letting me know that the poo problem has happened to you as well. I am hoping that the rice and chicken for breakfast will help. Thankyou also for the link :) I will be checking it out. Hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Can I still walk Nika? I know I can't do my usual couple of km, but can I still take her for a slow walk of maybe 15 minutes? Nika LOVES her walk soooo much. I won't if I shouldn't, I just need to know.
Thankyou again,
hugs Lynda, and a much more comfy, Nika

I believe taking Nika for a short walk will be fine since she really enjoys them, just don't let her overdo it.

When you have the time here is another article about canine pancreatitis which has a wealth of info: http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/education/diagnosing-treating-pancreatitis-roundtable.pdf

Also the "gurgling" sound coming from her belly is normal. When Harley's pancreatitis was confirmed by the spec cPL test his amylase and lipase were in the normal ranges, his spec cPL test was in the 400's!

Will be watching for Nika's spec cPL test results. You are doing a great job!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Lori..it is nice to know that at least a short walk would be ok. thankyou also for this link, I have so much to learn.
I was really nervous about the noise coming from her belly, that I had visions of rushing her to the ER :o....what a relief.
I have not yet received my phone call about the spec cPL results. I really don't understand completely what everything is, but I am hoping to learn real soon. I have just got Nika to eat her second meal of chicken and rice, gosh I hope that I am giving her the right amount, and, that she continues to eat it. I will be back when I get the call, or if I make the call to her vet. Gosh, this waiting is not one of my better traits:rolleyes:
thankyou again for all of your help, hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

The pancreas releases enzymes to aid in digestion, one of these enzymes is called lipase. Lipase can be elevated with pancreatitis but also can be high due to other health issues such as gallbladder problems or an intestinal issue.

The spec cPL test can differentiate the many kinds of lipase and the results from this test will come from the pancreas secreting lipase only.

Here is link with info about the spec cPL test: http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/reference-laboratories/spec-cpl-redefine-diagnose-canine-pancreatitis.pdf

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Nika's vet just phoned. She doesn't have the results of her spec cPL test yet, but she has spoke to two people today.Please bare with me, I am even more confused then before.Please do not quote me on anything, sorry. She spoke to someone from Vetoryl (they said no proven link to drug and pancreatitis) and also a endrodenine? specialist about weather or not to continue with vetoryl. the specialist said to get a stim done and see where her numbers are and possibly lower her dose. Basically, there was no straight answer. My vet explained how great Nika's numbers have been ( and they agreed) and also that her electrolytes etc. were checked yesterday and are fine. I told her how I felt (confused and not sure) so we will touch base tomorrow. I wish we had the results of that test. Nika is sleeping alot today, but she is on tramadol. She is eating fine and drinking as well...there has been no vomitting and only one bout of lose stool first thing this morning. I don't know, the more I hear the more I feel lost :(:confused:..Dr. H and I will talk tomorrow morning again and I will let you know how it goes. She is going to lend me her scale so I can weigh Nika's chicken ( I am so worried about giving her the wrong amount of food).
Sorry I don't have the results yet, I am so impatient:o Thankyou for your patience..hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou for that explanation Lori. Are you saying that the results from this test that we are waiting for will tell us for sure weather this is pancreatitis or not? and that this could be something else altogether?

[Harley PoMMom]

The snap cPL test that was done on Nika, which came back abnormal already confirms pancreatitis. The spec cPL test will give you an actual number, any thing above 201 ug/L is pancreatitis, the higher the number the more sever the pancreatitis is.

One of Harley's highest spec cPL number is 528 ug/L! But that number came down really fast.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey, Lynda,

You aren't going to be feeding Nika like this long-term, so don't worry about trying to get a balance right now. She will be moving back to another diet once things have settled down and I don't think that will take long. If you were planning to feed her like this over an extended period of time, then you'd need to worry but not over short time so let that fret go away, 'k? ;) I am a major worry wort so any time I can let something slide, it sure helps... but I can always find something to take it's place. :rolleyes::p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,

I just wanted to say "we love you". you will get there.

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Nika'sMom]

Lori, thankyou sooo much for explaining that to me. Wow, your Harley has had some high numbers, he sure must have been sick then?

Leslie, are you saying that she can go back to "dog food" as in from a pet food store? I guess I am thinking long term here because right now I can't see past today, as in anything getting better :( ...Nika is going to get better right?

Anything I am reading right now about this is just going right through me. I feel like I did when I got the diagnosis last year about Nika's cushings, nothing is registering right now. I just keep thinking that I am going to lose her, especially because I can't afford any big tests. I am still not up in my hours at work, but I am thinking of pushing it. It couldn't happen fast enough.
Thankyou again Lori and Leslie, you are helping me so much. I will be talking to Dr. H between 9-10 tomorrow morning, and I will be here right after with what she has to say...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Jeanette..that means alot..love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

I have all faith that Nika is going to make it, honey. She has the best mom ever and her vets are taking good care of her, too. Her diet will probably have to be adjusted a bit but for right now it's nothing to worry about. When you get the test results and know where you stand, ask the vet about diet until she is stable then you can look at something a bit more permanent. Some pups do fine with a simple change in feed, others are a bit more sensitive and that is something you will figure out over time. For today, you are doing great!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

I truly believe Nika will be fine. I'm pretty sure Marianne can help in finding a dog food for Nika, Marianne has done a lot of research on pancreatitis and also on dog food.

I realize that this is so overwhelming but please do not worry yourself so much, we are right here with you. ;):)

My boy, Harley, had chronic pancreatitis which he displayed no symptoms of. There are 2 different types of pancreatitis, chronic and acute. Chronic means having a pancreas that is always inflamed, acute means like a sudden attack but settles down.

[Nika'sMom]

I have the results of Nika's spec cPL and I have a very sick girl

normal range ^ 0-200 ug/L
>400 ug/L- serum Spec cPL concentraion is consistant with pancreatitis
Nika's number is 1000


I now have also started her on Cerenia once a day for 4 days. Still no trilo and I am having an ACTH stim on Friday..we will go from there.

I woke up feeling calmer today. Nika and I were up together in the night for a bit, but she settled again with me in bed. Her appetite is goo, no vomiting and she had a solid poo this morning, small, a little darker then normal and she struggled a bit, but solid.
ANY suggestions or advice or anything that I can/should do, please tell me like it is. Dr. H is being so fantastic with me, and I can hear it in her voice, her concern. I now have a scale to measure Nika's chicken, so that worry is gone ( and it drove me bonkers) I am giving her 2 cups of cooked rice (overcooked) and about a cup of diced chicken..total weight/day 500 g. that I divide into 3 feedings a day
Thankyou for being there for us, love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Nika's spec cPL number is pretty high but you will not believe how fast that number will decrease. Feeding a very low-fat, moderate protein diet is important, which you are already doing...Great Job!! Just remember though that any treats should be low in fat also.

Making sure Nika is drinking/getting plenty of water will help the pancreas heal. Water is found not only is what she is drinking but also in her food.

You're doing a fantastic job!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Lori!! Is there such thing as a treat without fat?.just asking because I am afraid to give her anything but rice and chicken right now.
I was actually going to ask if there was a way to give her water in her food. With her little poop being so dry today, and a really strong feeling, I think she may be dehydrating (blood work did show beginning of dehydration on Monday)..how can I do that? I am about to give her her second meal and it would be great if I could add something to help her. I don't like the prescription canned food, but would it help?
Thankyou again so much, and Nika thanks you too,
love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[labblab]

I agree, you ARE doing a fantastic job!

Only time for a few quick comments right now, but wanted to let you know that my girl's test result was nearly as high as Nika's, but it normalized again after only a few weeks. :)

Secondly, here's a website that was super helpful to me when I selected a food for my dog after we were ready to shift her from the homemade chicken and rice:

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjlowfatdiets.html

Lastly, I'm wondering about the true usefulness of proceeding with an ACTH test as soon as Friday. Since Nika is in the midst of an acute pancreatitis attack, I would think that the ACTH results could/would be very much skewed by the illness and not reflective of her normally occurring cortisol level, either while on the trilostane or off. Is there some worry that her cortisol is too low? Since her electrolytes were OK, at least that should eliminate part of that worry. And if a baseline cortisol level on Friday was not terribly low, I'd think that would also provide additional reassurance that she has not gone Addisonian if that is a concern.

If low cortisol is not the issue, then I do worry that you'll be wasting your money on a full ACTH this soon. I'd hold off until she has stabilized for awhile, and perhaps even resumed trilostane dosing once again.

Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Lastly, I'm wondering about the true usefulness of proceeding with an ACTH test as soon as Friday. Since Nika is in the midst of an acute pancreatitis attack, I would think that the ACTH results could/would be very much skewed by the illness and not reflective of her normally occurring cortisol level, either while on the trilostane or off. Is there some worry that her cortisol is too low? Since her electrolytes were OK, at least that should eliminate part of that worry. And if a baseline cortisol level on Friday was not terribly low, I'd think that would also provide additional reassurance that she has not gone Addisonian if that is a concern.

If low cortisol is not the issue, then I do worry that you'll be wasting your money on a full ACTH this soon. I'd hold off until she has stabilized for awhile, and perhaps even resumed trilostane dosing once again.

Marianne

I totally agree with Marianne, as I really believe if an ACTH stim was done this soon the results would be skewed.

Concerning the water, Nika is getting some water from the cooked rice, since rice does absorb so much water while being made. The other thing you could do is save some of the chicken broth from the cooked chicken and add more water to the broth then give this to her with her meals.

I really don't know of any low fat treats off hand but you could give her bits of cooked chicken as treats.

[labblab]

That Dogaware link that I gave you above has some great suggestions for lowfat treats. :)

Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Marianne and Lori,
The specialist that Dr. H spoke with wants Nika's dose of 30 mg/day lowered to 10 mg/day, but of course wants her stim first to see where we are at. The other thing that might happen is Nika's cortisol may still be alright, in which case we would keep her off the trilo while sick, it may being going up, we would resume, and yes, there was a concern of it going down? This all made so much sense when it was explained to me again today, but relaying it to you guys I can't seem to explain it the way she did. Nika's vet/specialist are really wanting this done. She is very aware of my finacial situation and has promised me only what she feels is truly warrented, will be talked about right now. What we are aiming for is an ultra sound. She is going to check and see if the hospital where it will be done offers financing. I hope so because I have wanted an ultra sound done since Nika was first diagnosed last summer. (Also, hydration fit into the reasoning behind a stim too)..I think I should start recording things.

[Nika'sMom]

oops..didn't mean to send that. Now I lost my train of thought, doesn't take much lately :o. Nika didn't eat her lunch a little while ago. She seems really sad and only wants to sleep. My Kelpie got her going by barking at someone walking by :rolleyes: and Nika tried to join in, but only ended up coughing and giving up on the bark.
Well, when my thoughts come back I will post more. Thankyou again so much,
hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

that's great Marianne!!...I will check that link out...thankyou

[Boriss McCall]

Hi,
We give our dogs frozen green beans as treats. They love them.

[Nika'sMom]

I just got of the phone with Dr. H and yes there is concern that her levels are too low. Both the Vetoryl People and the Specialist want her stimmed. This all is so over my head so I read to her what you wrote:o..I sure wish I had a better memory lately and that this wasnt so confusing:(..I didn't understand the concern of it being too low when I spoke to her this morning. I was overwhelmed with Nika's test results.) So ya, for a reason I don't really understand just yet, all three of them are concerned.
Dr. H is calling back any second now cause of Nika not eating second meal and poop problem. I am so sorry that I am all over the place with this, and to think that I woke up much calmer and ready to do battle this morning:rolleyes:..I think I need more sleep:o
Thankyou again everyone

[Steph n' Ella]

Maybe they are thinking the the lack of appetite and poo problems are due to her cortisol being low instead of the pancreatic attack. It might be a safe bet to go in for the test tomorrow. Once the work day is over, I am sure others with more experience with meds...

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

When Squirt had her attack, she was handled differently. The cause of her attack was the organ being touched and moved during surgery. That and the fact of the surgery may account for the difference but just in case - I was told nothing by mouth period for 24 hours at least. Her doc told me even the smell of food or of cooking could trigger the enzymes and that was not what was needed while the organ was inflamed. Her IMS explained this to me when I asked why I couldn't care for her at home. She was put back in the hospital immediately and remained for another four days. However, we seem to be the only ones here who were told this approach to an attack (nothing by mouth....) and her circumstances may be why. ;)

I hope the vets can help her start feeling better real soon. I know you are quite concerned. She is so lucky to have you as a mom, Lynda!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

With-holding food/water when a dog has pancreratitis and is not vomiting is usually not recommended. Vets are learning that this does more harm than good.


For almost my entire career in veterinary medicine the standard feeding advice for dogs with pancreatitis was simply to avoid feeding them while there were clinical signs of acute pancreatitis present, even if they didn't eat for a week or more. This philosophy is changing, mostly due to the results of some studies in humans that show an improvement in survival rates and recovery times among patients who are fed early in the recovery from pancreatitis. At the present time it is reasonable to give oral fluids and to feed dogs once the vomiting stops. Small amounts of a low fat food are best.http://www.vetinfo.com/dpancrea.html

[Squirt's Mom]

There ya go! :D She had her surgery in Sept. '08 so her doc may have been out of the loop, not convinced, or this came after. Not near as scary sounding as what he described when the enzymes were triggered. :eek:

[Nika'sMom]

wow Leslie, things sure have changed haven't they? that must have been a very scary time for you.
Lori, Nika has access to water at all times, and the last few days I am changing it a few times a day and "making a big deal" about fresh water so as to encourage her to stay hydrated, she drinks everytime I do this too.
I have been told that even though Nika's numbers are high (spec cPL) as long as she is eating and drinking I can keep her at home with me. I bought some more chicken on my way home from work tonight. I am making some broth with it in hopes to get her to eat, and give her more fluids (and cook some chicken ahead to freeze of course) I did get Nika out for a bit of a walk to hopefully encourage a poop. She didn't poop, but she really loved it and tried desperatly to chase a squirrel.
Well I should check the chicken, give Nika her meds, have some supper and then get them their supper. Thankyou again for your help. Hugs Lynda and Nika

[frijole]

I don't have much to add except to send warm wishes and thoughts. I hate to say but I agree with the others that doing an acth test is a waste of time and money. If I were you I would just quit giving the trilostane - that would end the worries of her being too low because it leaves the body quickly and yes the cortisol would slowly rise. But it gives you time for healing to take place and as others mentioned an acth test on a dog this stressed out from other illnesses will not tell you anything because the results are going to be skewed. Alot skewed. I'd save my money and my trilo for now and focus on the tummy. The cushings can wait. Kim

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Kim, and thankyou. Nika has not had any trilo this week, Sunday was her last dose. I am trying really hard to understand this. My vet wants to see what Nika's baseline is, the pre number.She just seems so concerned that both the people from Vetoryl and the specialist are saying to have this checked. She said she could never forgive herself if that number was wrong,bad, low? ( I don't understand that number) like the other two people fear. I completely understand what you are all saying, and I also agree, I am just trying to understand why these people are worried about the other number? I think she is looking at the way Nika is behaving, and wants to be sure it is alright? I honestly am so confused. I will be in touch with her tomorrow and I just really wish she hadn't been spooked by these people and convinced that Nika needs this test. Seeing my girl like this is so scary. She did say that some of the results from her bloodwork done on Monday were on the high side of normal, this concerned her too..and once again I do not remember which ones she was talking about. She knows I am very frustrated and she will do whatever I want. Thanks again..I just want to do what is right and best for my girl...many hugs Lynda

[Harley PoMMom]

With pancreatitis there can be abnormal results within the blood chemistry panel, things should turn around once the pancreatitis episode has calmed down.

I do agree with your vet that even though Nika is showing some high cPL numbers that at home with you is best but if she would start to show any signs of the pancreatitis getting worse such as vomiting and/or hunched back, then it is crucial to get her to the vets...which everyday I really believe Nika will get better.

Sending healing hugs and love, Lori

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh I have been out of the loop for a few days and just caught up reading your thread since this thing with Nika popped it's ugly head up.

I'm so sorry you are going through this and thought I can't offer you any advice on pancriatis, I'm very impressed by what everyone on here knows about this and I'm marking it in case we need it for future reference.

I hope that Nika's cortisol levels are okay and she hasn't become dyhdrated. Really hope that high 1000 number comes down quite a bit. That will give you some peace of mind and hopefully a good nights sleep when that happens. What a great vet you have. Really willing to go that extra mile for Nika and you both.

HUGS and hang in there!
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Lori for sharing with me all that you know, you already know how much I trust you. Nika won't eat supper. I tried everything that is allowed..I made broth from more chicken and when that didn't work, I mixed in a bit of prescription food to give it smell. She ate this morning, and a couple of tiny bites early afternoon, and now she seems interested, but no go. Just want to know if this is normal or should I panic. I do not want to put Nika through anymore then I have too. You probably can't answer this but I have to ask..with me doing everything to the T since we found out what is wrong on Monday, is there still a chance that Nika could crash, get worse, end up in hospital? I just want to know IF it is possible and I am sorry if that is alot to ask. Is she going to be this down and out for a long time, just wanting to sleep all the time ( or is it the drugs)am I risking anything by not getting the stim done.


Sharlene, thankyou so very much for your kind words. Yes everyone is so wonderful here and I don't know what I would do without them. I do have a wonderful vet and I am very lucky to have her taking care of my girl. Thankyou for all of your well wishes.
hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

More than likely the sleepiness is caused by the pain meds. What kind of pain meds is Nika taking and what is the dose?

That darn pancreas is such a fickle organ, anything and everything can set the pancreas off, most times recovery is quick. I would not be too worried about the finicky eating as long as she is getting a little bit of food in her tummy, drinking, I believe is more important and no vomiting.

Since Trilostane leaves the dog's system so fast, I really don't think that her cortisol is too low, but one just never knows.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers, Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou for your reply Lori. Nika is on tramadol 50mg every 12 hours. Today an anti nausea med was added called Cerenia. I was told that it also acts as a pain med. She is on the Cernia for 4 days total. Nika hasn't vomited since this began on Monday morning, just that one time..time before that a little over a week before.
Thankyou for your time and your prayers Lori,
many hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

How are things this morning? Did you both get some rest last nite? Let us hear from you when you can.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Leslie,
Nika actually slept quite well last night thankyou, no up and wandering like the night before...but, she won't eat this morning. She has drank a couple of times since we got up an hour and a half ago, but she won't eat. I gave her her Sucralfate when we got up..and I just gave her her Tramadol now. I am going to call the vet to cancel her stim and I am wondering if there is anything else I should be doing? I also had a thought after doing some more reading on this. Nika had a meal before her spec cPL and other tests on MOnday. I read that a dog should be fasted before that test or it won't be accurate. Her numbers are awfully high for a dog that is not "down and out" yes she is not herself, and now not interested in food...just wondering if maybe I should have the test run again and fast her this time?
Anyway, that was a long good morning reply:o Thankyou for asking, hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Is there any other special food I can offer Nika? I will cook more if I have too..I am so use to trying different things at times to keep Nika interested in eating, and I am finding it hard because I can't offer anything right now :o..thanks

[Steph n' Ella]

Poor Nika! I don't have any advice but hopefully with all the fluids she's been drinking she will feel better soon and be tempted to eat a little.

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Steph n' Ella.. I am hoping for the same thing too. I am trying right now to get through to my vet, for some reason I am getting a machine when I call and that is very unusual..I will keep trying:)

[Steph n' Ella]

Maybe they are down on receptionists? Also, first thing in the morning is proly a busy time. I call a lot during my lunch break and that is the worst! My IMS doesn't even send you to VM....you just get a busy signal if the lines are all tied up!

[Nika'sMom]

Well..I got through and Dr. H isn't in today? We were supose to touch base today before she left for the long weekend.Great..I am quite, let's say, NOT happy right now. I did cancel her stim for tomorrow and I really wanted to talk to her about offering Nika something else to eat. I honestly don't want to deal with the newbie vet ( that I dealt with on the 21st of September when Nika had her first vomit with blood specs in it) I am sure that she is a wonderful vet but she does not know Nika, and cushings. K, I guess my vent is done for now. I am just so dissappointed right now. I do believe that everything happens for a reason, and I am just going to have to hold tight to that right now. Thanks again hugs Lynda

[Harley PoMMom]

A dog must be fasted for 12 hours before performing the spec cPL test. If fasting is not done then the test will have inaccurate results, meaning more than likely it will show higher elevations. I still think pancreatitis is the culprit but not knowing exactly what her spec cPL number is will be difficult to gauge how severe her pancreatitis really is.

When Harley did not want to eat I made him a slippery elm soupy mixture. Slippery elm bark is known for its soothing of the tummy. SEB contains many nutrients (carbs, protein, fat, ascorbic acid, beta-carotene, calcium, and trace minerals) that can be beneficial for recuperating pets and it may stay down when other foods are not tolerated. Here's a link about SEB: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

Baby food, that contains no onions or onion powder, is another thing you might want to try.

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Lori!..you have no idea how happy I was to see your reply when I came in here just now..I agree that pancreatitis is what is wrong with my girl, but like you, I don't think those numbers are that severe. As soon as I read about the fasting I wanted to have the test redone, and considering she hasn't ate in 24 hours, I figured I could get that done today :(
I am going to go to the store now and get some baby food and try that. Besides onions, what should I stay away from..in fact, could you please suggest something really tasty for her..I so desperatly want her to eat something. I know she is hungry because after I walk my girls, they alway get a treat. Nika went to her spot just now, (we just got back) and I offered them both a bite of her chicken. My Kelpie ate hers, but Nika looked for something else.
Again thankyou so much for this..I am going with the babyfood for now, because it will be quicker to hopefully get something into her...hugs Lynda and Nika
P.S. I take SE capsules on occasion and it is amazing stuff

[Nika'sMom]

Lori, thankyou for the link on slippery elm. I do want Nika's urine checked in the near future for infection and her PH etc. so I will hold off using it right now. I do like what I see that it can do for dogs. I know how well it works on me so I will be using it in the future for my girl too...thankyou again, hugs Lynda

[Nika'sMom]

I went out and bought baby food. I came home and have tried, peas, sweet potatoes and, sweet potatoes with turkey (all pured)..she licked the sweet potatoe with turkey a little bit. Nika is hungry. She is hanging out in her feeding spot. I am gettting desperate here. I keep wanting to give her a tiny bit of her own food, I WON'T. She is more alert today and hungry and I can not have her go the whole weekend not eating. The other vet will only try to push perscription food (which she won't eat because I tried that out of deperation already today, and yesterday) and besides, not one has called about my cancelling her stim and my concerns about her not eating.. can I give her baby fruit?..maybe that would taste good to her...I am going to go back out and get some baby fruit, hope that works...thanks, hugs Lynda and Nika

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,
Geez im sorry you are having suchna hard time getting Nika to eat--perhaps she just wont eat cause her tummy still isnt feeling like it should? Perhaps once you try the SEB, it may calm her stomach and she will try eating. Im sorry you are having such a rough time with all this. I know it is no fun at all. Give it a little more time and she may be a bit better then. I know doctors are not too overly concerned when our human kids are running a stomach and virus and they wont eat for days. It kills me thinking that can be normal, but as long as they are hydrated, that is the MAIN concern.

Hang in there sweetie.

Warmest regards and love

Jeanette

[Steph n' Ella]

Yes, I was also going to say slippery elm bark. You can make the soup or the tea and start by putting it in her water, which she is drinking. The calming properties will then need time to settle in and perhaps she will feel ready to eat.

[Harley PoMMom]

What is the fat content of her food? If it is less that 10% I would give just a little bit added with either the baby food or even eggs (cooked, hard bolied or scrambled in a bit of olive oil.) Carbs are another way to get her to eat, pasta, potatoes, quinoa, or barley...to name a few.

[Nika'sMom]

I really want to use the slippery elm for my girl..I even have 400mg capsules right in front of me. The only reason I am frightened ( once again my vet has me worried about something) is because Nika has had problems with high PH and UTI'S, and has been licking herself more then normal (her vulva). MY vet mentioned this week about also doing a urinalysis. The articles Lori gave me has this in it that I wonder if I should worry about...

"In the case of cystitis (bladder inflammation), Slippery Elm is thought to soothe the bladder lining. However, it is somewhat high in magnesium, so may be contraindicated in dogs who have an active infection with an elevated urinary pH, where struvite crystal formation may be a risk."

But then again, she was also concerned about her baseline numbers and wanting a stim done.Yes, I am confused by her.

I would seriously LOVE to make some of the SE for my girl. She is really hungry and I think that anything will help (she got some crumbs from her sisters treat, so I know she is hungry) I really do believe that Nika is feeling a bit better today, not enough for a normal life yet of course,but, a bit better.
Knowing the test wasn't done after her fasted is really bugging me, because things could be so different if I knew what her "true" numbers are/were...just saying..
thankyou again everyone for helping me out so much. I would truly be lost without you...many hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

Lori...just saw that you had replied!..thankyou for the great tips!
her dry food says Crude fat (max)14.50 % Her canned food says Crude Fat (Min) 4.00%
Pasta. do you mean like egg noodles, spagetti noodles of any kind? any type of pasta?...this is so great. I am going to cook some eggs right now to start...Please let me know about the rest and thankyou again so much...

[Nika'sMom]

just a short note before I leave for work..I boiled eggs for Nika and she ate one.she wanted more but I don`t know the limits on how many eggs a dog can eat in a day...but she ate..I just knew she was hungry. I also made her some ice cubes out of chicken broth and she ate a couple of those...thankyou Lori!!! and everyone for your help. I gotta run to work now..I hope this is the beginning of her healing...hugs Lynda

[Harley PoMMom]

I believe I would try the canned food first and see if she likes it. Re; the pasta, any kind is ok, I just wouldn't let her have a lot of it at one time, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 cup of cooked pasta with some added canned dog food or eggs.

So glad to hear she ate some eggs.

Sending healing thoughts and huge hugs, Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Lori..thankyou again. I will make Nika some food right now. Is there a limit to the amount of eggs that she can eat in a day? I am going to give her some pasta and a little bit of her canned food for supper, but would like to give her an egg/eggs for breakfast if I can..I am beginning to really look forward to our long holiday weekend:)hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

I would probably limit the whole cooked eggs to 2 a day. You can give her only egg whites (cooked) mixed in with other food, I'd say 2 egg whites, to make a total for one day of 2 whole cooked eggs and 2 egg whites only.

Many times when Harley did not want to eat, he would eat out of my hands, so maybe try giving Nika her food by hand and see if this makes a difference.

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou for the info on the eggs Lori, it is good to know so I can add a bit of a variety now. I have been trying to hand feed Nika and it hasn't been working, but, she ate some pasta mixed with a bit of her canned food that she loves :)

I don't know how to thank you for all that you have done to help me get some food into my girl. I just knew that she was hungry today, and it was breaking my heart to not know how or what to feed my sick girl, because I wasn't told how. I am truly reaching through my computer to send you the biggest thankyou hug that I have ever sent..and some flowers too:) I know that we are not out of the woods yet, but I have such a good feeling.
I hope some day I can do for someone, what you have done for me and my Nika...love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Lynda,

Thank you so much for such a nice post, You are so very welcome, I along with the others are glad to help. We all are family and we try our best to help each other out.

Your love and devotion to sweet Nika is so evident and I am sure with all the tender love and care she is getting, Nika will be acting like herself in no time.

One more trick that I can think of...sometimes warming their food/meal in a microwave may entice them to eat.

Love and hugs to you and Nika ;):)

[molly muffin]

I'm so glad to read that Nika finally ate a little something. She sounds like a girl who just not like to have the same thing all the time. She likes a little variety. Well, we are all like that. So, now you have some options. I do think this is a bit of an improvement that she is eating a little. So I hope that her numbers are not as high as the test showed. If you continue to see the improvements over the weekend (and yes it is wonderful to have a long weekend again!) then I wouldn't worry about redoing the test, until you are at a point where you would want to test anyhow to see how well she is doing and that she is on track to recovery.

I wish you and Nika a really wonderful weekend, with NO crisis! Just good times.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Lori for the tip about heating Nika's food, I am doing that and I believe it is really helping:)
Sharlene, thankyou..I don't think Nika's numbers are as high as they were, and I don't want any unnecessary testing done. Nika stresses horribly when we go to the vets, she is a high stress girl, but really bad at the vets. My goal now is to figure out when to put her back on her trilo. I need a plan for this. I need to know what I am doing so I can tell her vet what I want done. I just don't know enough about cushings and pancreatitis together ( or apart:o) and I want to make sure my demands are the right thing to do.I want to trust that any testing recommended by vet is needed, but now I am unsure, and I truly have no money, so I will borrow for what REALLY needs to be done. I would like to wait another week off trilo to give her more time to heal, and then start the trilo again for a bit, and then stim?..but I really don't know if this is good or not, and I am not "trusting" like I use:(

Nika had a very lose stool this morning when we first got up. For breakfast she ate about 1/4 cup rice and one egg (she picked the egg out of the rice, guess she finds the rice boring still:rolleyes:) in a few hours I will try to feed her something again. I am just so happy that she is eating, even if only a bit.

I wish I knew how long I have to give her the tramadol for. Oh well, all in all I think my girl is doing ok this morning and I wanted to give a quick update before we continue on with our day. Many thanks again, hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

I would like to wait another week off trilo to give her more time to heal, and then start the trilo again for a bit, and then stim?..but I really don't know if this is good or not, and I am not "trusting" like I use:(

I think this a good plan. Within a week Nika should be feeling more like herself. We have always advised not giving any Cushing meds to a dog that is not feeling well and as of right now Nika is not feeling well.

If in a couple days Nika's appetite has increased and is a bit more normal than I would consider starting the Trilostane. Also if Nika will be starting at a lower dose than, if it were me, I would wait at least 10-14 days to have a stim test done.

Nika's norm concerning her appetite might be different than before the pancreatitis so it may be trial and error in finding a dog food that she loves because Nika might be associating her pain/not feeling well with her present dog food.



I wish I knew how long I have to give her the tramadol for.

I would talk this over with Nika's vet, but I would think in a week Nika should not need the tramadol.

Since Nika's vet did not do the spec cPL test under the optimal conditions, which a 12 hour fast is required, I would, also, talk with her vet and ask if the spec cPL test could be done at no charge. If Nika seems to be not feeling like herself, I believe having another spec cPL test done within a week would be sufficient in judging how the pancreas is doing.

All in all, IMO, how Nika is feeling would weigh heavily in how I would proceed with everything.

Glynda and Marianne reminded me of a study done by Dr. Cook which evaluates using the baseline (pre) cortisol as a monitoring tool for dogs receiving trilostane. http://www.2ndchance.info/cushings-monitorcortisollevel.pdf

Ideally, a full ACTH stim test should be done to actually gauge how the adrenals are doing during treatment but we all know how costly that can be.

Here are some excerpts from that study:
During trilostane treatment, baseline cortisol concentrations between 1.3 and either 2.9 μg/dL or ≤ 50% of the pretreatment baseline cortisol concentration correctly predicted acceptable control of adrenal gland function in 147 of 168 (88%) dogs.

For those dogs with baseline cortisol concentrations outside the de- fined target range, an ACTH stimulation test may still be necessary before appropriate adjustments in the dose of trilostane are made.

In June Nika did have a full ACTH stim test done in which her pre was 1.05 ug/dl and the post was 2.93 ug/dl...which is a great post number!

Since it has been a few days since Nika was given any Trilostane, I bet, her baseline (pre) has risen and any worry about an overdose can be eliminated.

I hope I didn't confuse you more.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Harley PoMMom]

All in all, IMO, how Nika is feeling would weigh heavily in how I would proceed with everything.


I wanted to add to this, Lynda, You and only YOU know Nika best so trust your gut feelings, ok?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Lori..sure, I am a bit more confused but, it doesn't take much :o

Nika is doing great, as far as I'm concerned. She actually got up this morning before the rest of us (she usually does, but of course not since she has been sick) and went down to the couch in the fireplace room. When I went on a search for her, and found her, her tail was going crazy :D..oh, it felt so good to see my girl like her old self. I am not going to push it, and it is hard not too, but Nika really is doing well. I hesitated in giving her her Tramadol this morning, but I did because I know how dogs can hide their pain and I don't want to mess things up for my girl. Now she is just going to crash on the couch again because of it, when only a short time ago her and her sister were wrestling and running around in our backyard ( it made me nervous to watch :o)
Nika's appetite is still pretty good.

Marianne...thankyou for the link of dog foods that would be good for sick pups like Nika. I went out yesterday and picked up a couple of cans and also a small bag of kibble that was on that list. I haven't given her any kibble yet but she likes the canned food so far ( I am mixing it with rice or noddles etc. to get her to eat) I think I may try some kibble for her lunch today.

Nika has now been off her trilo for 6 days today, and her vet won't be returning from up north until Wednesday...(if needed, her staff can contact her for me )so that will be a total of 10 days without trilo. I don't see any reason to lower her dose, with her numbers so great before all of this happened. It is obvious that the fear of being too low, is not an issue. I agree about the spec cPL test being redone, and to do stim a couple of weeks after restarting her trilo. I just really need to know now if Nika being off her trilo for 10 days is going to hurt her, I don't think it will, but I just have to ask :o...also, should I get an ACTH stim test done BEFORE she is back on trilo? I don't think so, but if I am wrong about this I want to know.
Well..Nika needs to go out now and it is almost time for her walk so I will be back in a bit. I am so excited how well Nika is doing, and if not for the tramadol and different food I am feeding my picky girl, Nika is acting so much like her old self....and I owe it all to everyone here who helped, get me through the last few days with all of your advice, links of important info and for the encouragement that I was doing good and I could continue to do this :) If today goes as well as I am hoping, I think tonight, I just might get some sleep for the first time this week..also I believe that with all of the help here, to keep me sane, has also helped me to keep my quit..I am 105 days smoke free today, and I am surprised I didn't cave this week:D..be back soon..love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[molly muffin]

I'm glad Nika is doing so well today. I hope the entire weekend is relaxing one for all of you.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Squirt's Mom]

:cool::cool: Woohoo!! :cool::cool:

on all accounts - Mom and Nika!

[Harley PoMMom]

thankyou lulusmom!!!!...here are her results
pre 1.2
post 5.04
her liver enzymes are still elevated and all of her electrolytes are within normal range....I think I am happy right now?



Yesterday was stim day for Nika, her 3rd month one....and here are the results...pre 1.9 post 4.9 :D




here are the results from last Monday's test that I had done because of her symptoms of possible low cortisol levels..
these are just the abnormal results and her stim...

ALP 340 20-150 U/L (down from test a few weeks ago)
GLU 6.7 3.3-6.1 nmol/L

pre 99 15-120 nmol/L
post 112 220-550 nmol/L

converted hopefully correctly,
pre 3.58
post 4.05




Nika's last stim was in june and her numbers were great..pre 1.05 post 2.93 Her ALP is still elevated at 450
reference range 24-141 IU/L


I've just scanned your Thread to see what dose of Trilostane Nika is taking and found 30 mg once a day, is this correct?

If so, the reason I was inquiring about a lower dose is that Nika's post numbers has consistently dropped, even though those post numbers are fantastic I am concerned that on her current dose that the post number will continue to decrease. Hopefully the others will weigh in on this as well because maybe I am missing something here with me being such a worry wart. ;):)

I am so happy to read that Nika is doing much better.

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,

Just wanted to say good morning to you and Nika, and hoping she is feeling well.

Love and tight hugs.

xo Jeanette

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Jeanette, Nika is feeling pretty good this morning and just ate some breakfast :)

Lori, yes Nika's dose has been 30 mg..As I told you I would, here are all of Nika's ACTH stim tests from the beginning once we started treatment..
2011-06-28 first stim on 60mg
pre .83
post 1.37

2011-07-13 first stim on new dose of 30 mg
pre 1.19
post 5.04

2011-09-09
pre 1.957
post 4.965

2011-09-27
pre 3.588
post 4.059

2012-02-15
pre 1.304
post 2.28

2012-06-08
pre 1.05
post 2.935 I think I converted and copied these correctly. I have been concerned about Nika's numbers coming down as well. I am so anxious to get this whole mess cleared up. Nika has been off trilo 7 days now...here I go again worrying:o..I am very anxious to have the spec cPL test redone and see if I am doing everything correctly..thanks again, It is time for our walk now, hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

I think I have done something wrong. Nika's poop aren't good today. First one right after we got up was part soft/formed, that was at 8. Then around 10 she kept wanting to go out but seemed afraid to poop. She would start to show she was going to poop, then she would scare herself. I took her for short walk and she did go after we got home, not a good one and bad smell. I just came in with her now and she has gas (that scares her) and runny poop..she is holding it. Nika is now settled on couch but has been a bit restless off and on today. Today is a holiday..it is Thanksgiving here in Canada, so I sent my husband to the city without me because I didn't want to leave Nika for too long. Is Nika just not use to a totally different diet for the last week? Nika has always had the most perfect poops, so this is making me nervous..I really believed that she was doing so well, and I can't find anything on bad poops during treatment for pancreatitis..any advice would be great...thanks, hugs Lynda

[lulusmom]

her dry food says Crude fat (max)14.50 % Her canned food says Crude Fat (Min) 4.00%


Hi Lynda,

In order to determine the true fat content, you have to calculate it on a dry mass basis. Of you give me the moisture content for both the kibble and the canned food, I'll do the calculation and provide you with the actual fat content for each.

How long did you keep Nika on a bland diet after her pancreatitis attack? You should have kept her on it for no less than four or five days and then gradually introduced her to her new food by adding 1/4 of her new food for a few days, then 1/2 for a few days and so on. If you went cold turkey on the new food, Nika's stomach is probably not handling it well. You may want to put her back on a bland diet for a a few days until her tummy settles down.

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou for replying Lulusmom..the food that you quoted I no longer have for Nika..I looked at the list of foods that Marianne posted for me and the kibble I chose says..moisture 10.00%,the crude fat is 6.0%..for canned moisture is 85%, the crude fat is (min)1.4% on one flavor and 1.2% on another..
I did not give Nika any new kibble until Saturday, before that it was just chicken, rice, babyfood (no onions) hard boiled eggs ( no more then 2 a day and not everyday)..I did mix in the new canned . The kibble was 1/4 - 1/2 cup total saturday with a couple tablespoons canned, same with yesterday and none today so far. ( I have only given her rice with a tbspbabyfood and hard boiled egg for breakfast. at 2 I gave her the same again.
I am really hoping this is nothing to worry about, and from what you have said I feel a bit better :confused: I have never seen Nika with bowel problems and it is really scary.
OH..I just looked at my journal for Nika's and I did give her a tiny bit of her old canned with her bland diet on thursday and friday ( only about a tbsp ish each day. I am thinking that might be not good:o..Do you think that could be it? according to the article that Marrianne gave me, that canned food that I had for Nika didn't list the proper fat content ( I found that out after I fed her and then went out to get better stuff) Gosh I hope I am making sense here, I am kinda figuring things out as I reply to you ( also my friends just gave me a conference call cause I sent my hubby to celebrate Thanksgiving without me cause I didn't want to leave Nika, and I am glad I didn't)
Thankyou again and please let me know what you think and what the numbers on Nika's new food means...hugs Lynda

[lulusmom]

Your choices you made sound really good. The fat content on a dry mass basis for the dry food is 6.67% and the canned foods are 9.3% and 8%. To determine the amount of fat on a dry matter basis, simply divide crude fat by the total amount of dry matter. The dry matter is the difference between 100% and the moisture %.

If you don't mind me asking, which foods are they? I have two boys who were hospitalized with pancreatitis and a girl with cushing's so all do better on a low fat diet.

I saw where you were concerned about giving Nika slippery elm bark because it is contraindicated if a dog has an active infection with a high urine ph. Does Nika have an infection and chronically high urine ph?

[Nika'sMom]

Hello and thankyou again Lulusmom..I do not mind at all that you asked which food they are, I had actually put the brands in my lst reply, and then removed them because I wasn't sure if I should do that..The dry food is made by The Blue Buffalo Co. Blue Superior Nutrition Ultimate Protection..Life Protection Formula Natural chicken and Brown Rice...of all of the dry food on that list, and what I am learning about all of this, I liked this one the best. For the canned food I chose Werva, they have a variety of choices and I went by the fat %..

As far as Nika's urine, we dont know right now if she has an infection. She has had a few ( which did lead us to cushings diagnosis) and her ph has been up and down...between 5 and 9 over the last couple of years. I mentioned this to her vet a week ago today, and actually I have been concerned about this for quite some time. When NIka's pancreas has settled, and I get her back on trilo, I want to get a urinalysis done..again..Thankyou again so much for being here for us.With today being a holiday and my being alone with my pups, I was quite frightened. Nika needs to go out reall bad!!!, so I will check in soon...many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[labblab]

Hi again, Lynda.

I'm really sorry that Nika seems to be back-sliding today, but I did experience some relapsing with my dog who had acute pancreatitis, too. Nasty, slimy, off-colored poop can definitely result from pancreatitis (my dog's was neon-orange :eek:).

If I were you, I'd revert back to the staight chicken-and-rice for a few more days again. If Nika will eat it plain, I would not add in any commercial food for the time being. Long-term, only chicken-and-rice would be an inadequate diet. But for the time being, the blander the better. And a dog can do fine on basic chicken-and-rice during intervals of recovery. Even though the commercial food you selected may be fine once the inflammation is controlled, it still may contain novel ingredients to which her system is reacting right now.

Just a thought to throw out there!
Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Marianne...Nika will not eat just the plain rice and chicken, that is why I have been adding babyfood and such to her food..she stopped eating it on day 2. The prescription food I was givin, she ate 2 times ( and I was desperate to give her that). She has also not had trilo for9 days now and I don't know if that will hurt her. I just don'[t know what to do. I am giving her icecubes to keep her hydrated. I don't know what to give her for her supper...I just know that she is hungry. I feel like I have failed her. I am so tired that I can't even think straight any more. thankyou so much for all that you said, hugs Lynda

[Harley PoMMom]

Lynda, in no way have you failed Nika, on the contrary, You are doing an amazing job. As I mentioned before, that pancreas is a fickle organ and it can take a bit of time to get it settled down.

Concerning the prescription food, was it given to you for the pancreatitis? If so, some members have gotten their dogs to eat this kind of food by slicing it in thin pieces and baking it in the oven. Trying to find a food that agrees with their system and that they actually really like to eat is not an easy job.

Pancreatitis requires some time and patience to get under control, which I know in me are two traits that are difficult to master.

Just remember, you ARE a wonderful mom to Nika.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi Lynda,

I know how frustrating and scarey it is when your dog won't eat. My Jasper had pancreatitis and he was on IV fluids for almost two days and hadn't eaten a meal for four days. He would not eat for the vet so I brought him home on a Sunday, thinking he might eat at home. Wrong. He turned his nose up at chicken and rice. The Metronidazole and Cerenia that he was taking was not helping. By the way, is Nika on Metronidazole and/or Cerenia? Anyway, at that point I was desperate so I decided to listen to several members who suggested slippery elm bark.

I went to the store, bought some, brewed it up, let it cool and syringed about a tablespoon or so into him. I was shocked that within two hours he was eating. The good thing about SEB is that it has protein, fiber and lots of other good stuff so it actually counts as a meal replacement. So it not only makes their tummy feel better, they are getting nutrients. I really hope you will consider giving it a try. I don't think giving Nika a syringe twice a day for a day or two will do her any harm. That's all it took for Jasper.

I just went back and read Nika's stim tests and see that her cortisol continued to drop from March to June. Her levels were pretty low in June so if you continued treating her at the same dose, it's possible that her levels continued to drop. If that is true, low cortisol may be why she isn't hungry and still has diarrhea.

Have you called your vet to tell him that she is still not eating well and that she is experiencing loose stool? Is Nika extremely lethargic? Is she hunching over like her stomach hurts or is she restless like she can't get comfortable? My two boys would lay down for a few seconds and then get back up and just sit there with their heads hanging down. Does Nika do that?

[labblab]

Hi Lynda,

I sure hope Nika is doing better again this morning! I remember how scared, confused, and frustrated I felt when my Peg was so ill. I dreaded every time she went out to poop for fear of what I would find. But after a couple of relapses, she finally settled down. Our vet did prescribe some probiotics and also a soothing gastric chew, and he said that it would fine to try the slippery elm bark instead of the chew. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any slippery elm locally, but as Glynda says, any number of our members have had success with it. I want to buy some just to have on hand, myself. If you remain worried about the mangnesium in slippery elm, though, maybe there is an alternative that your vet can give you (we used "Gastri-Soothe").

As far as Nika's cortisol level, it looks to me as though her post-ACTH actually increased between February and June -- going from around 2.3 to around 3.0? If so, that really was right in the middle of the desired therapeutic range at that time and may still be the correct dose for her once you start up again with the trilo.

Do let us know how you're getting along today, OK?

Marianne

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Lori, thankyou..yes the canned food was prescribed for her pancriatitis (I bought some cans for back up in case she refused chicken and rice) Last night for supper I put some in with a bit of rice,and then I heated it up for her like suggested here earlier (never thought to do that with the canned) and she ate a bit, not alot, but a bit. Time and patience...yup..not sure how to do either of these too:o

Lulusmom, thankyou for sharing about your pup Jasper, I think I would be even more of a basket case if that happened with my Nika. I am thinking of trying some broth with the slippery elm, I do believe I can use the capsules that I have to make it. ( I will look back to the link that someone posted on my thread somewhere on how to do it, I think). Nika's diarrhea didnt start until yesterday really. Her BM's have been back and forth between soft/lose and one time a bit hard, that was on Wednesday morning. Nika's meds are..Sucralfate, she was on Cerenia for the first 4 days..she is also on Famotidine once a day..and Tramadol every 12 hours. I beieve that Nika is hungry:confused:, she just doesn't like the bland food:confused:..Nika is up and moving until I give her the Tramadol, and even then, after a long nap, she is up and pacing and wanting out and wanting to go for a walk etc. (she seems high,cortisol?)

(since I started writing this reply Nika has dragged me out 3 times, we just got in again and after running from her 'back end' for 5 minutes, she had a BM..it was very lose, BUT not diarrhea..and it doesn't look "sick" like it did yesterday)

now I just fed my pups..Nika wanted nothing to do with rice mixed with prescripion canned, so I opened my last can and she ate some of it. I gave her her Tramadol about half an hour ago, so now she has settled on the couch, awake, but settled.

Marianne, I want to thank you too for sharing your pups story, so hard to believe how many pups have/had this. This is scariest thing I have ever gone through with a pup....Yes, Nika's last post numbers, did come up a bit, I was sooooo happy when I got those results I honestly feel that Nika's dose should come down, I truly have felt and voiced that, for some time now. Right now I have to let Nika's vet know that I want a spec cPL test done, properly, and see where we are at..then decide about the trilo. I am not sure if it is her being uncomfortable in her bowels and tummy, that has been making her pant, or it her cortisol is going up.
Well, this reply has now taken me over an hour to get done :o. Nika is now napping, because of tramadol. I am really anxious for her next poop. I know it will be the consistancy of canned food, but I just don't want it to be sick like it was yesterday:(
Once again thankyou so much for all of your help, and patience with me. I have been all week, and still am, a total mess about all of this. I am so glad that I have you all here because I truly trust what is told to me here. I don't fully trust anymore, elswhere, and trust is extremely important to me, I HAVE to have it in my life thanks..love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

just a quick note. I went out to clean up the poopy mess all over my backyard, and in one area of diarrhea, I discovered something in it..it turns out to be part of a sealant type material (like soft plastic) that must have fallen from storage container, when we had our pool closed ( we checked and yes,what I found is definitly that)..I am not 100% sure, but I believe Nika ate it while eating grass and she must have been in pain yesterday trying to pass it? It does make sense. I am not sure if this is the case or if she just went to the bathroom on top of this piece.but. like I stated earlier, she was literally running from her bum. I guess time will tell, and, just so you know, the piece that I found is not huge or anything. I sure wish there was a way to know for sure.

[Steph n' Ella]

Poor Nika...feel better girl and make some good BMs for your mommy!

[Nika'sMom]

awww thanks Steph n Ella :)

[Nika'sMom]

I made Nika some slippery elm liquid..I used 3 capsules (opened up in cold water)..it said half capsule per 10 pounds..I am sure Nika has lost a lot of weight this last while ,but normally weighs around 60 pounds. I just gave her one syringe full 6cc..I just want to know if that is enough? thanks...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

I am taking Nika to the vet. She just had a horrible time trying to finally poop again and it was liquid. The apponment is with one of the owners of the clinic. I want to trust so bad. I will let you know how it goes...thanks again everyone hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Let us know, Lynda. Riding along with you and Nika so if you hear a grumble, that's just my tummy...it's empty! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Steph n' Ella]

They way I understand slippery elm bark, there really isn't such thing as too much. That would be like saying you put on too much aloe on a sun burn or taking too many TUMs for an upset tummy or something. It is just a soothing treatment to the outer layer of the digestive tract. So For Ella, I put a "splash" of the "tea" recipe (here http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html) in her water everytime I filled it up and then 1/4 of a cup on top of her kibble or mixed in the with rice at meal time.

[Nika'sMom]

I had a long post ready to go and now I have to run because I am going to be late for work.. I got a call about some bloodwork run on Nika and everything looks really good. I will get a copy when my vet comes back (I really do not like the vet I dealt with today but I will explain that later) I just wanted to say that we are good and I can't wait to get Nika feeling better..pay off the bill for today, and find another vet:(...not a good visit but, I will deal with it.....thankyou everyone for always being there...I will be back as soon as I can to explain more about what happened...hugs Lynda

[mypuppy]

Hi Lynda,

I only have a quick moment t right now but will write more at another time. sorry for your horrible experience. are you sure your vet is not here on east coast cause she sounds like an ass like mine. ughhh.

hang in there? has Nika had any more diarrhea or problems going?

and yes switch vets as fast as you can. go, run with your girl. i cant just yet cause other one Glynda had found for me was more expensive... stinks.

xo Jeanette

[Nika'sMom]

thanks Jeanette...I cancelled that post cause the vet called in the middle of it, and I wasnt finished and now I gotta run..I will rewrite it so it makes more sense and everyone else can see what happened :(..hugs Lynda and Nika

[molly muffin]

Glad that Nika's blood work is okay and so sorry you are having vet troubles. Why does that happen to so many of us. Like I told my hubby, I would not use my vet (that I have used for years and all of Molly's life) again if I have another animal.
Hope you can figure out the poop issue. I know that is scary. Molly had a bout of it this past March and I still say that whatever happened with her, happened then and for whatever reason, no one still seems to know what the deal is about that incident.
I do hope that you and Nika get some answers though.

Hang in there, YOU are doing Awesome!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Nika'sMom]

Jeanette, Nika has not had a BM since the afternoon, but I can tell that one is coming soon.
Sharlene..wow..you feel the same about your vet? This is really bad, we learn to trust and somewhere down the road it turns to a "money grab" and disrespect (for me) And just to make it clear, the vet I saw today was not the vet that has been primarily dealing with Nika since her cushings diagnosis. This was the actual owner of the clinic (one of them) and I will say that these people really do not know much about Cushings. I will make a long story short because I am exhausted and it is almost bedtime and I haven't ate yet today. I truly wish that I could do something about the way I was treated today. She did her absolute best, to insult me and convince me that I was a complete idiot in this whole situation with my girl (meaning the cushings)..I will give more detail when I am in a more settled mood ( work was brutal tonight, I actually broke down for a few mintues with a friend I have there:o) This vet was sarcatic as all he11 when I said anything about what I knew and what I believed and she was REALLY peed off that I cancelled Nika's stim last week.( this woman wears her emotions on her sleeve) Today she tried to convince me again, that Nika could be addison's (sp)...I told her how I felt, and that she wasnt...and she wasnt very happy with me :rolleyes:she just talked to me like I had no idea what I was talking about ( and if you could see her face, and hear the tone in her voice, I am surprised she hasnt been decked before :rolleyes:)...anyway...I was right :)..her baseline is fine...like I knew (thankyou everyone who helped with that one;))

I could go on forever about what happened today, and like I said before, once I get my Nika settled, back on Trilo and my bill paid off, I am outta there..I hope I can find a good one..I am asking around and I am researching...
Well Nika needs to go out again so I gotta run..I hope a good nights sleep clears my head a bit...Thankyou to everyone here who has taught me what I know. She didn't like it and felt extremely threated ( my opinion, explained the extreme sarcasim and arrogance) I actually surprised myself today..I got to a point when she was rambling and scrambling with her "vet talk" ( that she didn't know at the time I knew what she was talking about) where I actually was going to politely get up and walk out. But I had to think of my Nika, so that is what I did.
we will check in again tomorrow...thanks...tons of hugs Lynda and Nika

[molly muffin]

You know Lynda, not all vets are comfortable with the owners being knowledgable. I don't know why that is. My personal vet isn't comfortable at all, said I shouldn't read the internet, that I pay her to know tests are needed and when, etc, etc. We argued about it quite a bit, something we've never done before. To me she seems determined that Molly is cushings, having tested her two years ago and that test was negative then.

However, the IMS I demanded a consult with, was fine with my reading, ready to discuss different theories, and went with a lower dose of vetroyl if the LDDS came back positive. (It didn't, it came back negative for cushings). My vet, was determined to start molly on 30mg of vetroyl after a positive ACTH.
Make some calls in the area and ask about experience treating cushings, success rate, and what experts they follow theory wise of treatment.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Steph n' Ella]

Sorry about the bad experience with the vet. I don't think my vet is so swift either. She likes to say that all of Ella's problems are because she lived in a kennel and had a few litters of puppies. Well that may be, but what the heck can I do about it now (I just got Ella in January at the age of 8)?! My IMS is amazing. That is where all my trust is. I just visit my regular vet when Ella needs her anal glands expressed...lol. She can deal with THAT and the IMS can deal with Ella's internal mendicine!

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so sorry for all the issues that you are facing and I do hope that things will start to get better.

In our Helpful Resource Forum we have a link to find an IMS in your area, here's the link: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182

I did do a search and found many in Canada, hopefully this link will work for you:http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=228

Sending strength, love and hugs, Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

Man, I am so sorry for your ordeal yesterday...and PO'd along with you! :mad: When Squirt first started this journey we had an IMS who was awful, just awful. Her bedside manner was harsh and arrogant, she wouldn't talk to me at all, wouldn't answer questions, Squirt hated her and acted almost afraid of her, and the IMS acted as if she hated dogs period. She was the one who decided that tumor on Squirt's spleen didn't deserve mentioning - to anyone. :eek::mad: I later learned we weren't the only ones she was negligent with; she was leaving that clinic and just didn't want to get involved with anything. So she left a mess for the other docs there and her clients. Every time I hear someone talking about something happening to them like you went through yesterday, I wonder if she is the one they are dealing with. ;) At that time, I was so ignorant and so scared that even tho I didn't care for her at all I still believed she was the doctor, the expert, and I had no choice but to follow her directions if I wanted to help my Sweet Bebe. I wonder sometimes what would have happened if that IMS hadn't left the clinic when she did and Squirt remained under her care until I had learned enough, what would have happened to her? Would she still be here?

You done good, Mom. You have helped demonstrate why it is soooo important for us parents to educate ourselves about this disease - too often we find ourselves in the defensive position and if we don't know enough to recognize when we are being told a load of bunk, then our babies suffer. You took the time to ask, to listen, to learn and as a result, you were able to defend Nika. There are good vets out there and I know you will find the perfect one for you and your sweet girl. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Everyone, you are all so very amazing to me :'( and you have lifted me up this morning with all of your responses.
Sharlene,"You know Lynda, not all vets are comfortable with the owners being knowledgable. I don't know why that is. My personal vet isn't comfortable at all, said I shouldn't read the internet, that I pay her to know tests are needed and when, etc, etc."
I can not believe your vet actually said that:eek:I dont get it at all. I am glad you have a great IMS :)..and thankyou for the tips on finding a new vet.
Steph, I am so glad that you too have a great IMS, and good for you for taking in a senior like you did, you vet should praise you for that:confused: ( I am going to have to get to reading some threads)
Lori, thankyou for the links. I have started looking at them and I need to do more research on MY vet, before I decide on another. She is a member of alot of things, and I don't want to go anywhere where these people are tied to ( I truly have zero trust after this last week)..I did find one though, so I am hoping my research shows me what I want to know. It is a distance away, but it is just a thought right now. I am also considering going back to my hometown (where I moved from 4 years ago), and just plain, gettin, another opinion..way too much does not add up, and if I am putting my girl through unecessary test and such, I want to know now (my gut is telling me that I am:( )
Leslie, I am sorry what you went through with you Squirt, Nika too was scared..in the corner beside me, facing away from the ____ and shaking like a leaf ( I think my girl has had enough of all of this vet stuff) YOur story makes me think that this person is making their rounds from clinic to clinic...did the vets we have talked about here all go to the same school?? Thankyou for your kind words Leslie, I am doing my best but I still feel like I am doing my girl wrong. I have learned so much this last while, and things are coming to me from the past with this clinic and they don't add up. I learned yesterday that Nika was the first client there to be put on Vertoryl :eek: I was completely lied to. Nika has been a guinea pig for well over a year..and things started to go downhill (now that I look back) when I refuse to continue giving her prescription food for her so called austioarthritis (sp) (and that was before her cushings diagnosis)
Anyway, as you can all see I have soooo much to sort through. I learned so much yesterday, and I am still trying to wrap my head around the reality of it all. I keep remembering more and more, and trying to put things together, and I truly do not like it. I have alot to figure out, and even more, to learn to accept and move on...but I don't think I can move on until I get justice for my girl, and believe me, I will somehow.
Thankyou again everyone. Nika still hasn't pooped and I am hoping she will today. Her vet will be calling, not really in the mood to talk to her right now....sending many hugs Lynda and Nika

[Cocoa's Mom]

Nika, do you live anywhere near a vet school?

My vet referred me to the vet school that's about an hour away from our house, and I have been sooooo impressed with them. They are so willing to listen to the owner and don't seem to have any of the defensiveness that some private practice vets seem to have. I hadn't been having any particular problems with my vet, but after going to CSU and working with them, I realized how much open and welcoming they are to having the owners be involved in the care.

Just a thought :o I'm sorry to hear you're having problems with your vet! This dang disease is difficult enough without having difficult humans as part of the equation.

Donna

[Nika'sMom]

Nika's vet (that has been dealing with Nika all along, and left me alone for the last week to fend off the vultures) called me today. I went to get Nika's lab work and here it is. I will post the results from October 1st, the day of diagnosis and then October 9, yesterday, when I had some redone to see where we were at...I am really curious to hear what anyone's thoughts are..

October 1st 1012

ALKP 515 U/L 23-212 HIGH
LIPA 4574 U/L 200-1800 HIGH

October 9, 2012

ALKP 423 U/L 23-212 HIGH (but down)
LIPA 589 U/L 200-1800

I had Nika's resting cortisol checked and it is high at 115 nmol/L = 4.16

When Nika's BM's are normal and she has had a few good one, we are going to put her back on her Vetoryl. I hope this is right because I am anxious to get back to normal so as soon as possible, shortly down the road, Nika and I can move on. I will not rush Nika into anything too fast to just get out of there, but I will absolutley only deal with "her" vet from now on. It really is too bad that Nika's vet has been influenced by the owner because she truly is a completely different person and could really do well on her own. Oh well, like I said, the vultures have moved in and they ruined it.

Donna, yes there are teaching school's. The nearest one that I believe is a few hours away. I have been checking it out and there is one vet that I find interesting. I am also looking into vets from where I am from, only 45 minutes away. Thankyou for sharing your experience. I hope you continue to have a smooth relationship with your vet:)...someone has to give us hope:o thankyou also for your concern.
I have to start getting ready for work. I told Nika earlier that if she gives me a really nice poop, I will let her bark outside for 5 minutes straight at anything she wants too :D, but for some reason it hasn't worked yet :rolleyes:..thanks once again everyone for all you are doing....hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

How the pancreas is functioning can not be gauged by the lipase from a blood chemistry panel. Only a spec cPL test will tell how the pancreas is doing.

I really do not think her resting cortisol is that high considering that Nika is not feeling well.

Once Nika's appetite has improved along with her bowel movements then I believe the Trilostane can be introduced and , if it were me, I would give her a lower dose, say 20 mg once a day.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers, sending huge hugs, Lori

[Nika'sMom]

I just got ready for work and I realized that I did not post the result from the spec cPL test I also had repeated:o( My mind is STILL racing, and I have to keep asking what day it is :o )

it is 146

Thankyou Lori for being there again, and for your well wishes...gotta run, can't be late again..hugs Lynda

[Harley PoMMom]

I just got ready for work and I realized that I did not post the result from the spec cPL test I also had repeated:o( My mind is STILL racing, and I have to keep asking what day it is :o )

it is 146

Thankyou Lori for being there again, and for your well wishes...gotta run, can't be late again..hugs Lynda

Oh Lynda! That is a fabulous number, any number </= 200 is in the normal range!!!

Great, great job, Lynda!

[mypuppy]

Thats so awesome to hear from Lori. So glad Lynda and Nika and yes, you have done a wonderful job taking care of your special girl.


Luv to all.

xo Jeanette

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou so very much Lori, that means the absolute world to me coming from you :D
Jeanette, I love your support :)

I want everyone here to know that there is absolutly no way in the world, that I could have done this without this forum. I have been so misguided from the clinic (not Nika's personal vet persae) but by those that were left, that I was to deal with, while Nika's vet was away. (and of course the other issues I have to deal with, with the clinic:mad:)I know we have a ways to go, but I feel as if I have all of you right there, ready to pounce on anyone, who ever tries to misguide me, or hurt my Nika again, and I would be lost without you, and my precious little girl (Laying at my feet cause her Mom is home and happy) I have whitnessed you all perform miracles and save lives right before my eyes,many times since I have joined last summer. You all got us through this as you have done so many times before. You are all the best and I believe the Cushings World is blessed, to have you on their side...much love and hugs Lynda and a very blessed Nika xoxo

[Nika'sMom]

just wanted to quickly let you all know that...Nika pooped :D it wasnt a lot, but it was solid. It's a start :)

[Squirt's Mom]

:D:D Woohoo!!! :D:D

[Boriss McCall]

Yeah!!!!:d

[mypuppy]

Best news Ive heard all day:)

Go Nika and Lynda too.

xo Jeanette

[labblab]

YAY!!!!!!!!!! from me, too :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Who would believe that people could get very happy about nice formed poops...WE DO!!!!!! Yaaaa!!! Sooo happy to hear this great news about Nika's poop!!!!;):D

[Nika'sMom]

I am laughing so hard right now..you guys are the best :D..I am so glad that while I am here, with all of you, I am actually considered "normal" with my happiness about poo :)

[molly muffin]

Poop and pee! Welcome to our world eh. LOLOLOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[labblab]

Hi Lynda,

I've got my fingers crossed that Nika is behaving herself this morning and presenting you with a perfect poop! :o :)

Since I know you are planning to resume her Vetoryl once she does stabilize, I've been thinking over a couple of things -- primarily, the dosing. I do think that arguments can be made either way in terms of decreasing her dose or leaving it "as is." But everything else being equal, I think I'd again resume the 30 mg. unless there seems to be a specific reason to lower the dose. Her resting cortisol level is certainly high enough now to exclude any worry about her being Addisonian. And on the 30 mg., her June post-ACTH result had actually increased somewhat from the February reading.

Her attack of pancreatitis may have been completely unrelated to the Cushing's in any way. As I say, my own dog who was so ill does not have Cushing's, and we really don't know what prompted the attack aside from the fact that she was eating a relatively high-fat food and is treated with phenobarb for a seizure disorder. Apparently, phenobarb can make dogs more vulnerable to pancreatitis. But elevated cortisol can do the same thing. So if I had a Cushpup who had suffered from a pancreatitis attack, I think I would want to try to keep her cortisol under pretty tight control.

Just from a practical standpoint, if you decrease from 30 mg., you will either have to switch to a compounded product or pay a higher price for the Vetoryl (two boxes of 10 mg. Vetoryl will undoubtedly cost you more than one box of 30 mg. capsules). Again, if there is a clear reason why a decreased dose is preferable, then I know you will opt to make the change regardless of cost or inconvenience. But I'm just not sure you need to go there yet. If it was me, I think I'd resume the 30 mg. and then monitor Nika closely for any changes.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Lynda and Nika:
Great news Nika - it must have been a real work of art!! Keep up the great poohs!!!

[Nika'sMom]

I got up this morning to a "not so nice" gift in my dinning room. It was a very large horrible poop. Of course I assume it is Nika and not my smaller pup, my Kelpie.Because of the poop's size, I thought Nika.

I had to run into the city right after feeding my girls and bathroom break and such, and I barely remember the drive because my mind was here. Long story short, and YOU tell me what you think :o..My Kelpie had a little poop after I got home and it looks like she might not be feeling well ( I believe my poor baby is stressed) and then.......after Nika acting just like she didwhen she was having bad poops (pacing in the backyard, afraid to go on the lawn etc. SHE HAD A GOOD SOLID POOP!!!!!!!

SO..could Nika have gone from a huge horrible poop first thing in my house...to a really nice poop outside less the 5 hours later? Put it this way, if that bad poop came from Kelpie then she is a huge dog in a small suit :confused:
I honestly am confused about all of this. Nika's vet and I have agreed that if Nika has 3 good poops, I will resume the Vetoryl and I was really hoping for that to happen by the weekend. Again, the last poop today was completely normal (for what she is eating of course)
Marianne, thankyou for your advice and yes, that is exactly what we plan on doing, putting her back on 30mg and stimming her in a couple of weeks, and go from there. Nika has been off it for 12 days now, and I am anxious to get her back to as normal, as possible....and now that I have another pup not feeling too well, I need to focus on her a bit more ( I do believe it is stress from the last couple of weeks, absolutly nothing has been normal for her, although I tried, dogs know different)
Goldengirls..it sure was:D and the last one today was even better;)
So, this is where we stand right now. I, once again, can not wait until her next poop. I hope she gets over her fear that BM's hurt, and starts to go again on my lawn, instead of cement patio. I understand her fear because she was quite sick there. I told her that I wish she could talk to me, and understand what I say. My neighbours are going to have me put in the looney bin soon because of the way I talk to my furkids :p.
Will keep you updated. Going to go feed Nika now and see what exciting things happens after that...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Nika'sMom]

I only have time for a quick update on my Nika, and it is good. Nika has had all good poops since my last poop post:D. and her appetite is good, so I decided that I would start her back up on her trilo. I gave her her first dose this morning ( I will let her vet know tomorrow what I have done, I haven't had any time to touch base with her this weekend because I have been very busy with family) I do have one question though..how soon should I have her stimmed? Considering I have put her back on the dose she was on before she got sick, and her last post number was very good. My vet said 2-3 weeks. Thanks again everyone, it sure feels good to come in here with some better news...hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

I think the 2-3 weeks that your vet suggested sounds right, and of course if Nika would start displaying any ill effects such as diarrhea, lethargy, and/or vomiting then an ACTH stim test should be done ASAP.

I am so happy that Nika is feeling much better and I know you will keep a very close eye on her. You are doing an amazing job!!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Thankyou Lori, I sure am keeping a close eye on her.:)

A quick update on Nika. Today is day 5 of being back on Trilo and she is doing just fine. Her vet is gone now until Monday, but I want to deal with Nika's other issue now that things have settled down. I want a urinalysis (sp) done and I want to know if she for sure has vaginatitis(sp) I had a lot of things thrown at me when this all started a few weeks ago and I believe the vaginal issues were brought up again. The problem (besides money) is that trying to get a urine sample from Nika is like getting water from a stone. I have done the needle thing into her bladder, and they missed, charged me, and I will never put her through that again. Nika has been through so much and she absolutly stresses to the max at the vets. I told her vet last chat, that I want to limit Nika's vet visits to those that are only absolutly necessary ( like her ACTH stim test and her anal glands being expressed) My girl is tired and grumpy and I want to give her a huge break because she deserves it. Now don't get me wrong, Nika is still loving life. She is playing like a puppy off and on during the day, she LOVES her walks, she is eating, pooping perfect:D and moving around fantastic. She just has her limits with being touched in certain parts, by certain people and she only has so much patience with her "sister" Stormy (she is a Kelpie and can be a handful towards Nika:o) and of course, the last visit to the vets, that was with someone other then "her" vet, was horrible for her and she shook worse then when she does during a thunderstorm:( Nika use to be fine for me getting urine samples, but over the last couple of years she has caught on that peeing into something, means vet visit:(

Well I didn't intend for this update to be this long. Us humans in the house have been really ill (hubby is finally going back to work tonight) I too am on the mend...

One more quick note, the distributors here in Canada are on back order for Vetoryl in the 30 mg capsules. This will mean that starting on Saturday ( when Nika has run out of her present supply) I will have to give her 3-10 mg capsules a day:eek: ,for one month. Before her pancreatitis, I was giving her her Vetoryl with peanut butter..now I open her growling mouth, talking calmly to her, put it in the back of her throat (it can be tricky) and praise her when it goes down (she actually becomes quite proud of herself) Thankyou To Leslie ;)..I did check into it all of this, with a few long distance calls, and I will be getting a deal because of the inconvenience but..my poor Nika:(

Thankyou again to everyone because we wouldn't have survived all of this without your help. I love my Nika and furkids, so much and I just love that everyone here feels the same about their furkids too. I will let you all know how the "triple dosing" goes this weekend:confused: ..love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lynda,

Thanks for the update on Nika, I am so happy she is feeling much better.

I don't know anything about canine vaginitis, but did look it up and found an excellent article, here's the link: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Medicine/Vaginitis-in-dogs-A-simple-approach-to-a-complex-c/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/557956

Sounds like an urinalysis is a good start and it can be so frustrating getting that pee!! ;):) I just wonder if Nika would urinate on a pee-pad, you could place the plastic side up for her to go on and then pour it in a container???

Please keep us updated!!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[molly muffin]

Oh wow, poor Nika. Conquer one thing and then on to the next. I am confident though that you will pin this down.

hugs,
Sharlene

[Nika'sMom]

Sorry it has been so long since I let you all know how my Nika is doing. She is doing really well :) Nika has been back on Vetoryl for 2 and a half weeksish now, and I have my girl back:D There have been zero accidents, her appetite is great, her energy level is normal, and she moves around like a much younger pup. Oh, and of course, her poops are perfect :p
Thankyou Lori for that article. My vet says that she has Periavulva dermatitis. Since Nika has recovered from her pancreatitis, and back on Vetoryl, she is licking her vulva a fraction of what she use to. No more at night and hardley during the day ( I think I just notice everything and I am not sure what normal is anymore) I keep that area dry with special towels that I bought. I touched base with Nika's vet a couple of days ago, and like I said before, I am going to limit her visits to the clinic, to as little as possible. Nika seems so happy this last little bit that I don't want to ruin it. I told her vet that I believe that the bout of pancreatitis she just went through, had been brewing for months. The way Nika is now, is so amazing! I am keeping her on prescription food because she likes it ( and Nika can be a very picky eater) I have not put her back on her joint supplement since she got sick, and her joints are moving fantastic. I have however recently put her on daily cranberry tablets (Paxon) and also an Immuno Support Capsules ( through her vet..she know how I feel about natural products and has finally looked into it for Nika). I am curious to see how these help, as I feel better about giving her this to try, then putting her through tests that a: either don't work or b: stresses her so bad that she is messed up for many many days.

So, that is where we are at right now. Us humans are still working this horrible bug going around ( as is so many people that we know) The "flu" is also going around for our dogs here and surrounding area's. My Stormy is fighting something mild for some time now, as is my neighbours 2 pups across the street..the clinic was buzzing with sick pups all last weekend ( 3 confirmed cases of pancreatitis) and even my Mom's pup came down with it, and she lives in the city 45 minutes away from me :o
I have asked my boss for more hours again at work, and she is going to give me some, plus I am looking for a second job as well during the day ( I work evenings right now)...so things should be looking up for my vet bills soon, I am excited about that :D..I will get that ultrasound one of these days:)
I hope this finds everyone well, and especially safe after that awful storm ( we got so lucky and it breaks my heart that so many didn't :()
Thankyou for the hugs Lori and Sharlene. And thanksyou for the suggestion of how to possibly get a sample Lori, great idea;)..but Nika wouldn't go near something like that lol..she is my little scaredy cat for sure:rolleyes:
take care everyone and I won't wait so long to get back here next time. love and hugs to you all,
Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Lynda,

What a great report! I am so happy for you and for Nika! :):cool::):cool::) I hope you are all feeling tip-top in no time!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

"Ditto" to everything Leslie just said! :) :) :) :) :)

Best wishes to both you and Nika! ;)
Marianne

[Boriss McCall]

Yay! sounds like things are running smooth for you two. :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lynda,

I am so happy to read that Nika is feeling much better and back to "herself."

Hope that darn flu ends really soon and everyone is well.

Sending huge, healing, and loving hugs, Lori

[Nika'sMom]

Thanks everyone. Everything you have said means so much to me. You all got us to this point, and once again I want to thank you for helping me to save my Nika's life..I couldn't have done it without you.
Love and hugs,
Lynda and Nika:D

[mypuppy]

Awwwww Lynda,
So glad to read this nice update on sweet Nika. She owes it all to mommy and all our members here.

stay well and sending much love and tight hugs to all.

Xo Jeanette and Princess

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou Jeanette, I sure would be lost without everyone here :)..Love and hugs to you too, and a gentle pet to your Princess, Lynda and Nika

[frijole]

Oh thank GOD for some good news! So happy for you and your baby. Thanks so much for the update. Kim

[molly muffin]

That is awesome news that Nika is doing so good. Happy days. We count each and every one!

hugs,
Sharlene

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Everyone,
Ihave been wanting to come in here for a long time now and give an update, but things keep happening and I say to myself " as soon as this passes, I will update" ..Well, things aren't "passing" anymore, so I will do my best to rememer everything and let you all know how my baby is doing.
I believe that my Nika is getting tired, and so am I. I had 'the talk" with one of the vets yesterday about yet another issue with my girl. Yesterday morning Nika had another accident in the house and I got her outside, and she went again in the snow. Her urine looked like it had some blood in it. I called the clinic and long story short, Nika's primary vet is not in and won't be until next week. I explained, in tears, what was happening. A vet called me back a while later ( not the one that I don't like) and we had the talk.
Here is where Nika is,
her periavulva dermititis is quite bad, actually really bad. Her rectum looks raw ( she has her glands squeezed about every 6 weeks or so now because they fill so quick, so I thought that was why she looks so sore there)

Her ALKP is on the rise..

December 4, 2012
ALKP 722 (23-212)

Feb 13, 2013
ALKP 874 U/L ( 23-212)
A couple of weeks ago I started her on Zentonil for liver support.
Yesterday, through tears, I asked the vet if she would give me some meds for Nika because I was sure she has a UTI, and I do not want to bring her in because she stresses way too much being there, and Nika, really wasn't happy. The vet gave me Clavaseptin for 2 weeks. Then hopefully I can get a sample of urine, just to check to see if blood is present.
She asked me if I thought Nika still had quality of life, and me as well. I said that she still loves her food, her walks, and still wants to play and get silly , usually once a day at least. I do however believe that she is still in pain, and has been for a long time now. She has always been grumy to the touch on some parts of her body...but now she just seems to not want to be bothered more then not.
I sure hope I am making sense. I know I seem to say that every time I come in here, but I am trying to understand what is happening. After speaking with vet yesterday, and thinkin back to many conversations with Nika's vet Dr H. I am realizing that things may be worse then I want to admit and they just don't know quite how to tell me? I know an ultrasound would answer so many questions, but I still just can't afford it. Also, with NIka's many issues, I am frightened for the drugs to keep her sedated during that process, even if I could afford it.
I have asked what the cause for her ALKP to be rising, and I was told that with Nika being on Vetoryl, and the short life it has in her system, that she is getting a shot of cortisol to her liver every day, and it is affecting her?
I am quite afraid that I am close to making a decision about my girl. If she is suffering, then I will let her go. But if she is going to get better then I want to help her. I don't understand the liver results or what it means. I keep thinking that Cushings has taken it's toll on my girl, and if that is true, I need to know so I can just accept it and do what I have to do for my girl. Is this Zentonil a waste of time? am I getting my hopes up? Are the vets doing this for me...or for my Nika:confused:
There is so much going on in my life right now, but, I am making Nika my number one priority. My other issues can just wait until I understand what is best for her.
If anyone here can tell me what they think might be going on with Nika's body, I would appriciate it. Nika's vet is often asking question about "my group"..she truley does respect what you do, and have done for me.
A part of me feels relief when I think of Nika not suffering anymore..the other part of me is afraid to let go too soon if there is still more time with her. I have to stop crying and find someone to trust to help me sort this out. I have been looking to other vets, but I keep going back to Dr. H because she has been there from day one, and has done everything I have asked her to do. The only problem is that she is there less and less ( I think she may be leaving) but to start over again with another vet, and I don't have the money to start over anyways...and a big factor..when it is time, I want Dr. H to be the one to help Nika to the Bridge.
Well that is it for now. I really do need your help to help me think straight about my girl..any honesty would be very very much appriciated..any questions? please ask away.
Love and hugs to everyone..from Lynda and Nika
One more thing. Nika always wanting to be by my side. Even though she sleeps quite a bit, she is my new velcro pup, and my Kelpie seems to have stepped aside to give Nika her spot. Nika even seems to be depending on me to sit with her when she eats...she hasn't done that since the beginning when I first rescued her ( she was a mess when I first brought her home) When I feed her she starts to eat, then she stops, looks for me, paws her dish and when I go over to her, she starts to eat again. Could be nothing, but wanted to share this change in her behavior

[addy]

Sweetie, I do hear what you are saying and I know just a week ago, I looked at my Zoe and said no more, I cant put her through any more, I want her last days with me to be peaceful, not running to the vet for more and more and more tests or procedures. So I understand what you are saying.

I cant tell you what is happening to you pup. There becomes a quality of life issue that we need to look at. Are they having more good days than bad? Do they still interact with us? Do they eat? Can they be kept clean? How much pain are they in?

I dearly hope others will come along and be able to give you ideas of what is happening to Nika.

I just dont want you to feel you are alone in feeling the way you do. It does take a toll on us so we do stop and soul search.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))

[Nika'sMom]

Oh Addy.. I am so so sorry with what you are going through with your Zoe, I had no idea and I wish it weren't so. :(
I honestly do feel quite alone for a while now. Those in my life aren't exactly thrilling me with their takes on life, and the lack of respect for me and my choices. I haven't told anyone the newest with my Nika, and I do not plan to until I have decided what I am going to do. My hubby knows of course, but he is of no help..he will probably do what he did 7 years ago when I lost my wolfhound and wait until the last minute to stop giving me grief about my love for my dogs:o..sorry, just a short vent. ( he just says she seems fine to him..yet he does not understand her grumpiness. He thinks if she isn't crying, she is alright. I have tried to explain)
How is your Zoe? I must go find out...oh my, I am sad that you have had to do this.
This decision is so very hard, especially because there is so much I just don't understand...and also all of the problems and issues I have had with the clinic, I just dont know who or what to trust. I hope you have trust with your choices..
thankyou so much for being there, and your kind and supporting words...love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

aw, Lynda, it is so very hard to see our sweet babies decline, especially when we aren't in a position to take any actions, whether financially or because our babies have simply had enough of heroic measures. I, like Addy, have reached this point with Squirt. No more. I will do all I can to keep her comfortable and happy but when those measures fail, we have gone as far as we are going. And that is a terrible thought to live with. :(

Nika's ALP isn't nearly as high as Squirt's gets - her will be off the charts often, coming down then soaring back up. Her IMS isn't worried about it in the least but it worries me no end. When we have labs done these days it's more of "what's out of whack today?" than "what is wrong?" because her values are never stable. So much of it I put down to her age, as does her GP vet I think.

When Tasha was still with us my goal was to not take away one good day yet not make her suffer one minute longer than I had to. So many times I thought, "this is it" only to have her rally and bounce back strong as ever. The day she woke up totally confused then had a seizure, I knew that was it - I couldn't ask any more of her. For now, Squirt is happy; she enjoys her food, her outside time, her lovin's, company, walks in the field, and still plays from time to time. She sleeps most of the day and is restless most of the night. She, too, has become much more attached that she used to be, her independence is rapidly leaving. She has troubles at times digesting her food. She hurts from the arthritis. But her bad times are still fewer than her good times so we will continue to fight.

I so wish I could tell you when you see X then it's time. But that X is so variable, different for each pup and parent. I do believe you will know when Nika has had enough and that you will find the courage and strength you need to take that next step. Know we are all with you, lending you our hope, faith and strength.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Nika'sMom]

Dearest Leslie,
I am sorry that you too are dealing with such a sad time. I want to thank you for your words and your honesty... that is what I need so much right now. I am sorry about your Tasha :(
You're description of your sweet Squirt, and how she is doing, really really helps me to slow down my racing mind and try to see what is really happening. I have been putting off my emotions for a terribly long time now, and I am paying for it, with horrible denial and confusion. You and Addy are helping me so much and I thank you both for this. I know I am not the only one going through this, but I sure was beginning to feel as if I was.
Just out of curiousity Leslie, how high does your Squirts ALKP go? I have nothing to compare it too, and I am the kind of person that needs to understand what is going on.
I do believe Nika's time is getting close, but I really am having a hard time trusting myself. Today I look at her, looking at me, and I swear she looks pissed off at me:o..but then again I have to remember that she isn't feeling well and only on her second day of antibiotics.
Thankyou for being there Leslie, it means so much and feels so good to finally talk about what I am thinking and feeling about my Nika's situation...love and hugs Lynda and Nika

[Squirt's Mom]

The labs she had done a couple of time ago, the ALP didn't even register, it simply had .... which doc said meant it was too high for the machine to read. The last labs she had were down to 1012 U/L with Normal = 20 – 150 U/L.

We just have to do the best we can from minute to minute sometimes, knowing that all we do we do for love and knowing that our precious girls know that, too. We hold on to those moments that make us smile, and hide our tears over those than bring us sorrow. I remind myself daily that it is a rare thing to share such love, that I am ever so lucky to be her mom, oh so blessed to have shared so much time with her. So few know what a love like that means. We have both been given amazing gifts, huh?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gnag

[goldengirl88]

Nika's Mom:
So glad you found this forum. These people have so much to offer in experience and expertise. You have to make the judgement about treating Nika and not let others influence you. You will hear plenty of evidence on here that a lot of these Cush dogs live out their normal lives. So don't sell Nika short, I was scared about all this too, but I truly believe my precious Tipper would not be here without treatment. Good luck and I hope to hear about your Nika's progress soon. God Bless You Both
Patti