Barney 12 Year old Border Collie PDH/Lysodren [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

StarDeb55

04-24-2009, 11:15 AM

Just to let you know, Harley fought an non-healing corneal ulcer for nearly a year. My IM did say the repeated infections were definitely because of the immune suppression from the Cushing's. We finally ended up at a vet eye Dr., who diagnosed the real culprit as untreated dry eye. I still find this strange to this day as my GP vet had tested Harley for dry eye, either 2 or 3 times, & got normal results. I was standing there when they did the test a the specialist, & it was definitely abnormal in the left eye. We ended up on 2 different antibiotic ointments, & cyclosporin drops for the dry eye. One of the ointments did have just a tiny amount of steroid in it to help clear the residual corneal scaring. The specialist felt the amount was so small that it shouldn't affect the Cushing's. Harley's left eye seems to be fine after doing all this over about a 4-5 month period, but he will be on cyclo eye drops for the rest of his life.

Debbie

Barney's Mom

04-24-2009, 12:49 PM

Thanks Deb,
It does make me feel a lot better knowing that its not that uncommon to see ulcers take this long to heal. Once you got the cyclosporin drops did the eye heal quickly? I hate seeing him uncomfortable. I bet it was horrible fighting this for an entire year. Poor Harley :(

StarDeb55

04-24-2009, 03:31 PM

Harley would be on a round of antibiotic for a couple of weeks to a month, everything would look ok, so we would stop. In a couple of more months, I would happen to look at his eye & see it oozing "crud", off to the vet's, back on antibiotic ointment, & so forth. After the 3rd re-ulceration, we got sent the eye vet who said at that point it was about 90% healed, but with a lot of scar tissue. We started on a different antibiotic ointment + steroid in the AM, same antibiotic/no steroid in the PM, cyclosporin drops 3x daily, & in between all of the above, artificial tears as frequently as possible. I think it took around 5-6 months for things to totally heal up, & the scar tissue to subside.

Debbie

Harley PoMMom

04-24-2009, 05:24 PM

Hi Cheryl,
Sorry to hear about Barney and his eye, I'm sure the specialist will be able to help you. Who are you taking Barney to see?
How is Beth doing?
UGH, yes this waiting game for the test results does get on the one last nerve that I have left:eek::D but I guess anyone with a cushpup/sick pup feels that way don't they?! So I may as well get used to it!!
Good luck with the stim test and I'll be waiting and watching for Barney's results.

Take care, Harley and Lori

Barney's Mom

04-24-2009, 08:09 PM

Right now he's on Tobramycin drops 4-6 times daily.
The eye doctor is Dr. Glick, I believe he is from Philadelphia, but he travels around and is in Harrisburg on Tuesdays. He may need another 3rd eyelid flap and debridement. The vet never tested Barney for dry eye. Hopefully the eye specialist will.

BestBuddy

04-24-2009, 08:29 PM

Hi Cheryl,
I am sorry Barney's eye is still causing problems. Now this is my interpretation but the eye protects itself but putting a film/skin over the ulcer and that then stops the ulcer from healing. Buddy was on the cyclopoirin ointment and the specialist said she though it was the best treatment to heal the ulcer before the skin covered it again. After the initial surgery treatment I had to continue using the cyclosporin ointment every morning and we used Acular (small amount of steroid I think) drops every night. This was a forever thing but it worked. Hoping you get something that sorts our Barney's eye.
Jenny

MiniSchnauzerMom

04-24-2009, 08:30 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Sorry to read that the Barnster is still having problems with his eye.

The vet never tested Barney for dry eye. Hopefully the eye specialist will.

I'd for sure be adding that to my list of "must do's" for the eye specialist. Munchie is also being treated for dry eye in his one and only good eye. These furkids!!!

Louise

StarDeb55

04-24-2009, 09:55 PM

Cheryl, I don't want to criticize your vet, but I don't understand why Barney wasn't tested for dry eye early on. Every time Harley's eye would re-ulcerate, my GP would do the dry eye test, Schrimer's tear test, but it would always come up normal. The specialist repeated the test, & that's when it came up abnormal. You can "google" the name of the test, & see that it's pretty simple to do. They put a small piece of litmus paper, (I think), in the corner of the eye. The paper is graduated in millimeters. They time the migration of tears up the paper strip for a set amount of time, then read how far the tears have traveled. I don't remember what normal range is but on the first abnormal test at the eye vets, Harley's bad eye read something like 5 which is grossly abnormal. She said that it was probably more like 3, but the treatment he had been on had helped a little.

Debbie

forscooter

04-24-2009, 10:32 PM

We need a healing kissy icon...

here Barney....kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy...

I have no advice bc I know nothing about eyes so I'll do what mommies do...

kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy kissy...

Beth, Bailey, always Scoobie and Allo

Barney's Mom

04-24-2009, 10:36 PM

StarDeb55

04-24-2009, 10:52 PM

I must give all credit to Cushy. She PM'd me some links that will give you further information about dry eye. Unfortunately, 2 of the links don't seem to want to work when I cut/paste them. I know the Marvista link should work. Maybe Cushiy will send them to you directly.

Dry Eye:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_kcs__dry_eye_.html

Debbie

I'm going to try to put in the other 2 links after Cushy suggested a "fix".

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1302+1473&aid=1186

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2092&aid=451

Spiceysmum

04-25-2009, 04:23 AM

Hi,

Sorry to hear about Barney's eye problems. My other dog, Brin suffered from KCS, dry eye, when he was 4 years old. It started as an infection that didn't heal. His nostril on the same side dried up too as there was no lubrication to it and he couldn't breathe through that side of it. The tears didn't even register on the test. He was on Optimmune for months which wasn't working and so we found a specialist Opthamologist on our own as our vet (at that time, no longer though!) said nothing more could be done. We carried on with the Optimmune as well as artificial tears and steroid drops, I can't remember the name, and after a month or so we could see his nose gradually getting wetter and his eye too. The doses were gradually reduced over the next year and then stopped altogether. He is now 12 and has had no problems since. I think it must have been an immune problem as I was told they usually have to continue the treatment for the rest of their lives.

It is terrible to see them so uncomfortable, I hope Barney gets some relief soon. Did you say he has had steroid drops? I am sure it was those that 'kick-started' Brin's eye into getting better.

Linda and Spicey

Barney's Mom

04-25-2009, 11:10 AM

Thank you Debbie and cushy! I was able to get all of the links open! I am going to get him some artificial tears for him in the interim until he sees the specialist. From the articles the tears are very soothing to the dog, and I am hoping the provide some relief.

Hi Linda,
My vet said no steroid drops until the eye ulcer has healed. It really does sound like dry eye could be the culprit! Thanks so much for the information and I am glad that your dog is problem free now :)

CHeryl

StarDeb55

04-25-2009, 06:11 PM

Cheryl, you have to be very careful what artificial tears you buy. I use "Refresh". The eye vet gave me a list of acceptable brands which I am looking for as we speak. If I can find it, I will post the rest of what was on the list besides the "Refresh".

Debbie

Barney's Mom

04-26-2009, 08:28 AM

Debbie, its funny you should say that. I was at the store I started combing through the MANY different varieties of artificial tears. There are several kinds .............who knew?:D
I ended buying "artificial tears" (the ingredients seemed the most inert)
but when I got home I was so confused I was afraid to give them :D
Will head back out today for refresh.

Thanks so much!

BestBuddy

04-26-2009, 08:43 AM

I used the optimmune (cyclosporin) ointment on Buddy for many months after the ulcers. I then started to use lacrilube ointment instead for the dry eye and it worked really well. I think it was Natalie that recommended this as Buddy was diabetic and I had to be careful with a lot of medications. The lacrilube seemed to be the simplest with the least ingredients/preservatives and it did work really well.
Jenny

Barney's Mom

04-26-2009, 12:08 PM

MiniSchnauzerMom

04-26-2009, 01:51 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Here's another suggestion to add to your list. Munchie's Opthamologist first gave me an expensive drop for his dry eye, which I purchased from them (can't remember the name at the moment). He also gave me the name of a reasonably priced over-the-counter alternative I could use for him, which I have been doing since July '07. Seems to do the trick and works as well as the pricey one I first used as far as I'm concerned. It is GenTeal Lubricant Eye Gel (the Severe Dry Eye Formula). Seems like the different specialists must have their own preferences. This was the only alternative I was given for Mr. Munch.

We need a healing kissy icon...

Yeah.....and we could use a "margarita cheers" icon for all us frazzled parents too!!!

Louise

gpgscott

04-27-2009, 10:21 AM

Hi Cheryl,

Sorry to be so tardy in checking in.

I hate eye issues we have only had a few and they were all injuries not some systemic issue so I have no real advice, although it looks like you have had lots of good advice from others.

I can send well wishes though as you and Barney deal with it.

Scott

Barney's Mom

04-27-2009, 12:05 PM

Ok.....I did an ingredient search as well as a lot of reading on corneal ulcers.
The eyedrops that Debbie and Louise use, the active ingredient is carboxymethylcellulose. I think that the lacrilube is awesome and lasts a lot longer than the eyedrops because it is an ointment, but I think this would be good for after the ulcer is healed, to prevent a recurrence.

So......I have been cleansing his eye with sterile normal saline, and I bought the refresh drops with the carboxymethylcellulose. (that was one overwhelming decision, lol! Do you know what's available in eyedrops now?)
I have been doing the saline rinses for a few days now, his eye was beginning to look infected with a discharge. I just started the lubricating eye drops last night, but they appear to sooth his eye.

I have been doing the saline rinses for several days now. His eye isn't red like it was and there is no discharge, so I think if it was becoming infected, we nipped that in the bud. He also is on antibiotic eye drops prescribed by the vet.

He is holding his eye open more yesterday and today. Not all the time, but definitely more than he was. I have a vet appointment on Wed. Pray we've made headway!

When I ask Barney, "how's your eye?" He squints his eye :( Poor boy.

Thanks everyone for checking on us :)

Loves,
Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

04-27-2009, 08:11 PM

We've all got our paws up and praying for you and Barney :D:D
Harley and Lori

BestBuddy

04-27-2009, 08:22 PM

Good luck with Barney and his new eye regime. My sister has a very smart dog that had hurt her paw and got so much sympathy that every time you said poor girl have you got a sore paw she lifted it up and limped around. This went on for weeks until we realized she wasn't limping on the same leg each time. She was smart enough to know it got her attention and now several years later those same words make her lift one paw and start limping.

Jenny

Barney's Mom

04-27-2009, 08:24 PM

forscooter

04-27-2009, 09:25 PM

Barney's Mom

04-28-2009, 11:17 AM

Oooo....we could have "Doggie Oscars"!

I hope the drops help Barney....I ouch all over thinking about it. I can related too much and am feeling his pain! How is he getting drops? Does he cooperate?
Thinking of you!!! Sending soothing healing thoughts....Beth

Actually, he cooperates very well. He knows he gets cheese after the drops. Barney will tolerate nearly anything for a piece of cheese. :D
I tell him "come on Barney, lets get your eyedrops" and he and Beth both come running. (Beth always gets cheese too, ya can't feed one and not the other :rolleyes: )

Truffa's Mom

04-29-2009, 07:51 PM

Barney's Mom

04-30-2009, 01:44 AM

Barney!!! you little cheese bandit; or should I say Cheese pirate? You would look kind of "bow-wow hunky wow" with a patch over your sore eye .

When Truffa had her eye ulcer, I made apparently a very "usual" mistake. I applied extra drops of her anti-inflammatory drops. Her ophthalmologist told me that THIS INFLAMMATION was a good one, the anti-inflammatories on this case delay the healing process. And poof 20 days under his instructions and it healed. But I also know that probably Truffa's case was more superficial.

What he did was : under topical anesthesia he debrided (shaved, and I almost fainted watching that)corneal epithelium and performed a grid keratotomy; he prescribed 20 tablets of Tramadol 50 mg (2 tablets twice a day) for pain and an Ulcer Mix Solution -(He made it, I don't know what it contained) 1 drop 3 times a day. By the second day she wasn't squinting as much as before.

Here are two links that helped me a lot. Hope you get well soon and we will keep praying for good results.

http://www.2ndchance.info/cornealulcer.htm
http://www.pethealth101.com/eye/corneal_treatment.shtml (this one describes an ophthalmic solution with Adequan!!! very interesting)
Marcela & The Choco Labs

I saw this a few days ago and immediately thought of Scott. I KNEW Truffa had a corneal ulcer. When Barney was first diagnosed, I did a search for
"corneal ulcer" over at cc.net but it turned up nothing. Thought I had imagined it.
Glad to hear that all healed well.
Cautiously I am thinking that we are definitely making headway. He is holding his eye open much more the past few days, and there is definitely less corneal edema.
He went for a stim test today. It was scheduled at 1130. I fed him last about 2am. Boy am I glad I did, he got home a little before 5pm and he was so hungry and thirsty.
He won't go with the vet tech. I have to walk with him and as he barrels in front of us I sneak back and out the door. I hate to trick him :(
He was soo funny tonight. He loves me and John to both pet him and make over him, kinda like his own love fest.
John was on the couch petting him and I was on the loveseat watching tv. Barney starts barking and barking and barking, looking at ME..........
He wanted a lovefest, lol! I went over there and started petting him too and he just writhes around making this loud "purring" kinda noise, its so cute!!!!!!

Truffa's Mom

04-30-2009, 02:05 AM

I am envious of the "Purring" noise!!!! and the lovefest!!!! How can one live without this amazing creatures?

Last week while I was looking where to post about our temporary home here at K9diabetes, I found a forum and one of the members question was "how can I stop my dog from licking my face ?" And then a few seconds later I re-read and asked myself "what?????..... who in the world would like that?" And here I am begging Truffa to give me kisses, and totally envious of some purring and lovefest. I can't remember which web site it was and obviously never posted there.

Glad to hear we are making some progress with the eye.

Happy lovefest

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Harley PoMMom

04-30-2009, 10:35 AM

Hey Cheryl!
Glad to hear things are going better for Barney.:D It seems the eye takes so long to heal, but you and Barney are doing an amazing job. Here's to a puuurrrrrfect recovery:D:D

Take care, Harley and Lori

Barney's Mom

04-30-2009, 03:45 PM

I am envious of the "Purring" noise!!!! and the lovefest!!!! How can one live without this amazing creatures?

"how can I stop my dog from licking my face ?" And then a few seconds later I re-read and asked myself "what?????..... who in the world would like that?" And here I am begging Truffa to give me kisses, and totally envious of some purring and lovefest. I can't remember which web site it was and obviously never posted there.

Glad to hear we are making some progress with the eye.

Happy lovefest

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Me too Marcela! I am always bribing my dogs for kisses. You know what's funny? We had a dog Kelly that was a "daddy's girl." She was John's dog all the way. But she would NOT kiss him.........ever! He would say "give daddy kiss".......she would turn her head! ROFL! I got kisses from her all the time! Weird eh?

Hey Cheryl!
Glad to hear things are going better for Barney.:D It seems the eye takes so long to heal, but you and Barney are doing an amazing job. Here's to a puuurrrrrfect recovery:D:D

Take care, Harley and Lori

Haha! Thanks Lori!

Barney's Mom

05-04-2009, 07:02 PM

Well I finally got Barney's stim results back
Pre: 1.9
Post: 10.2

Not where he needs to be :(
He is having problems with his back pain. I don't see any symptoms of cushings, his eating and drinking are fine and his doc doesn't want to adjust his meds based on the numbers alone. I am afraid if he is hurting now with his back, I will make it worse by trying to get his numbers "text book perfect"
I am inclined to agree with him, but how high exactly is 10.2?
Our symptoms are well controlled, but what about end organ damage?
Barney will be 12 in June.

Any thoughts????????

Cheryl

AlisonandMia

05-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Just off the top of my head first thing in the morning here:p - I wonder if the back problems couldn't be a result of subtle muscle weakness creeping in because his cortisol is too high?

Maybe a few days of cage rest would help with the back - just to settle things down again. Then you'd be able to get him back where he needs to be cortisol wise without worrying about him ending up in agony towards the end of a mini-load.

Alison

lulusmom

05-04-2009, 08:57 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Just how high is a post stim of 10.2 ug/dl? I think Alison and I are on the same page. In my opinion, it's high enough to be concerned about. If Barney's last post stim number was within range (1 - 5), then it would be pretty obvious to me that you've lost some ground and the adrenals are regenerating. Without a minload or an increase in maintenance, I suspect that cortisol will continue to climb and you will see a return of symptoms at some point. Can you post the results of Barney's prior stim so we have a frame of reference?

I hate to parrot Dr. Feldman all of the time but he's been treating cushdogs with Lysodren for more than 35 years and has seen it all. He is emphatic with his students that "for a dog to be considered normal, you must get the post stim below 5." Now I just have to figure out what his definition of normal is. :D

Glynda

labblab

05-04-2009, 09:17 PM

Cheryl, what would be the normal lifespan for a dog of Barney's size and type? If he is approaching the last couple of years of an expected lifespan, I guess I am taking a bit of a different tack here in that I would be more concerned about his outward comfort than his "inward" numbers. That is to say, I would not be as worried about chronic organ damage as I would be about his mobility and current quality of life.

Not having been a Lysodren parent, the piece that I don't know is whether you would be making life a whole lot more difficult for him by perhaps necessitating a full load in the future if you don't make an attempt to rein in his cortisol again now (e.g., I don't know how a full load compares to a mini-load in terms of stress for the dog). But at Barney's age (and from his pictures, I am presuming him to be a "big dog"), if it were me, I'd be making the treatment judgement largely on the basis of his visible comfort and the status of his symptoms.

Marianne

forscooter

05-04-2009, 09:39 PM

Cheryl,

Just checking in. I have to agree with everything Marianne said here. As you know, I battled arthritis issues with Scooter, and Bailey has the hip dysplasia on top of it all. For bassetts, the average lifespan is 8-12. Scooter made 8. Bailey, God willing, will be 10 in July.

Bailey's last ACTH (which I admit was some time ago) was around 9. The thing is, he was more comfortable there. I don't see since then that we are back to Cushing's symptoms at all. I was thinking of re-stimming him but then I thought, why???? It won't matter bc whatever he is now, he is comfortable.

I am not a believer in treating by the numbers. I mean, after all, to make the diagnosis you don't just treat on numbers alone. You treat based on numbers AND symptoms. So, in the absence of symptoms, if Barney seems otherwise happy and with good quality, isn't that the end goal after all? :) Treating by some piece of paper is not, in my opinion, the determining factor.

Also, high cortisol levels do damage over a period of time. Not overnight. Not in 2 weeks. So with Marianne's thoughts on what his lifespan would be otherwise, I would keep that in mind as well.

All this rainy weather has me hurting. Bailey has been limping around and I thought twisted an ankle before so I am keeping an eye on him. I am wondering if the back pain can't be somehow related to this unrelenting weather around here???

I just thought I'd chime in....you, of course, know what's best....but a very wise woman once posted on the old board when I first joined, "I don't believe in treating by numbers alone"....and to this day I keep that in mind.

My two cents...which in today's economy probably means I owe you money...

Love ya! Beth, et al.

gpgscott

05-04-2009, 09:51 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I am more concerned with Barney's behavior than I am this post number.

10, is not considered bad for a non-cushpup and if he feels well, me; I would't push it.

And you have other issues going on which interestingly enough have not raised his resting cortisol.

As to the Dr. Feldman qoute from Glynda, I really don't think Barney is one of those pups with no control whatsoever of cortisol, based on his history.

If I am remembering right he is on a maintenence only Lysodren rgimen, is that right?

Scott

Barney's Mom

05-04-2009, 10:37 PM

I am so confused!!!! LOL
His last stim was post 5.5, I don't remember what his pre was. That was 6 months ago. He is definitely trending upwards. I do fear his symptoms may return, at some point down the road, and I also fear that his leg weakness may be because of the higher cortisol? He hasn't been his playful self, but then again, he has been battling this eye ulcer, so he has been mopey at times over that plus back has been bothering him and he limps from time to time ......again, I am not sure if this is related to his elevated cortisol. ?????
Average life span of a border collie is 12 to 13 years. But maybe he will live years on borrowed time :)

I guess I am going to get the eye taken care of first. Likely he will have a repeated surgery to debride the eye and hopefully the tissue will take, and he will heal.

Then I will tackle the cushings. The vet doesn't feel that the cortisol is high enough to cause his leg weakness, but I just don't know. Right now he is on 375mg of Lysodren a week. That about 16mg/kg/wk.

He would prob require a mini load, but how much do you think? He loaded initially on 500mg daily and loaded in 7 days. His post stim was 1.5.

Cheryl

Barney's Mom

05-04-2009, 10:43 PM

OH......and thanks guys! :D:D
We love you and couldn't do this without all of you!!!!!!
XOXOXOXOXOX
Cheryl

AlisonandMia

05-04-2009, 11:00 PM

It does sound, if nothing else, that his cortisol is on the rise and that his present maintenance dose is not adequate to hold it even where it is. A compromise could be to up the maintenance dose a tad to at least keep him where he is now especially if eye surgery is in the offing - you don't want him becoming raging symptomatic two days before scheduled surgery! You could discuss that option with the vet. I wonder what (if any) effect elevated cortisol could be having on his eye ulcer? Debbie may have some useful input in that regard.

Humans with Cushing's just about universally report horrible, unremitting muscular-skeletal pain presumably as a result of soft-tissue weakness. I know people and dogs are different and humans are much bigger and heavier which is probably a factor when it comes to muscular-skeletal pain - and cushingoid humans are almost always grossly overweight but I do wonder if some cushingoid dogs aren't in similar discomfort - especially the larger ones. I have read at least one account of a woman who had her cortisol lowered by pituitary surgery and interestingly she began to feel much better almost immediately - rather like a lot of cushdogs responding to successful treatment.

If you do reload at some point and it causes problems with pain when the cortisol lowers there are always other pain meds and if the worst comes to the very worst there is always a little dose of pred. I wouldn't be so sure that he isn't suffering some muscle weakness as a result of the high-ish cortisol already - what symptom is the most bothersome seems to be an individual thing and maybe, for Barney (particularly with his history of a back injury) muscle weakness is first and worst symptom. When Mia was put on pred briefly during her final illness I saw absolutely no cush symptoms at all - except she started wetting her bed again almost immediately. Her water consumption didn't go up appreciably though.:confused::p

Alison

Barney's Mom

05-04-2009, 11:15 PM

Thanks Alison!
It was hind leg weakness that had me test him for cushings in the first place.
I am calling his IMS in Maryland. She was a bit overbearing and definitely not a people person, and we did clash, but she loaded Barney perfectly........she did an amazing job. I am going to call her tommorow. She is now two hours away from me, but I wonder if she won't do a phone consult and maybe be in charge of reloading Barney and I can have him tested here in PA. He gets car sick and that is one long ride.

I talked with my husband when he got home and he thinks he is drinking more, and he has awakened him to pee in the early morning twice in the past month or so....That is something he never does.

Elevated cortisol does interefere with the eye healing. They won't give steroid eye drops with an active eye ulcer for that reason.

I guess I can't say for certain that he isn't symptomatic, this may be sequelae from elevated cortisol??????

StarDeb55

05-04-2009, 11:42 PM

I guess I peeked in at the right time. Harley's eye kept re-ulcerating, partially due to the elevated cortisol, & the immune system suppression that we all know comes with Cushing's. If I remember the sequence of events correctly, the eye infections/ulcer started prior to the Cushing's diagnosis. We had actually had it cleared up at one point which was either right before or right after the first time he was loaded in the Spring of '08. His first post numbers were horrible, I had argued with the IMS for 3 weeks about this before they finally agreed I needed to bring him in. I remember sitting in the exam room, looked at Harley, & went, "Damn, your eye is all goopy, again." I re-started all of the eye meds, called the GP for a 2 week follow-up. Things looked ok, so we started decreasing the eye meds. Follow-up in another month, & his eye looked like it had never been treated. At this point, we got sent to the vet eye Dr. which I believe was early last fall. Now, to get to the point, the vet eye dr. put him on an antibiotic ointment with a very tiny amount of steroid in it which she felt would not be detrimental to his Cushing's. She did explain that due to the amount of corneal scaring, the steroid was an absolute necessity to try to thin & clear out some of that scaring. This ointment was given in the morning. Same antibiotic ointment, no steroid was given at night. Cyclosporin eye drops 2-3x per day, & in between all of this the "Refresh" drops. This has actually all worked since Harley has not had a re-ulceration in about 10 months. His tear test is still not ideal, but better. We are due for a recheck at the eye Dr. in the next week or so, & I will know more then. I never saw any issue with the steroid containing eye ointment aggravating his Cushing's or increasing his stim results that I can recall.

The only other thing I can say is Mom, here, hasn't been as diligent as I should be with the cyclosporin eye drops, but I'm trying to change that. Unfortunately, I, now, have found out that my other boy, Chewbacca, is "allergy boy", so I'm having to manage a huge round of medication for him, along with Harley's regular meds. I have my day job to make money which is to pay for my night job which is taking care of 2 "medically needy" pups!:eek::D

Debbie

lulusmom

05-05-2009, 01:28 AM

Hi Cheryl,

I think calling the IM is a great idea and we'll have fingers and paws crossed that she can get your boy back on track. I am going through a similar ordeal with Lulu at the moment. About three months ago, her post stim was 11.4. Because she is so tiny, her IM did not want to do a full blown reload so we did a half load for four days. She originally loaded with 50mg twice daily but this time we loaded with 50mg once daily for four days and then upped her maintenance dose the following week from 50mg twice a week to 50mg three times a week. We stimmed her four or five weeks ago and her post was 6.4. Because she has multiple issues, including a continuing unknown skin problem, her IM felt that we need to get the post down below 5 so we upped her maintenance a bit to 60mg three times a week. I had my doubts about whether we would be successful with the half load routine so I was pleasantly surprised to see the 5 point drop. I'm not convinced that the 30mg increase was enough but we'll find out in a few weeks. I am so tired of stim tests!

Jojo has chronic keratoconjunctivitis requiring optimmune twice daily. If his cortisol is too high, like Harley, the condition worsens big time. His eyes have been really runny and redder in the last week so I am wondering if he may be running high too. I guess I better take him in with Lulu. I am so tired of stim tests!

Glynda

Barney's Mom

05-05-2009, 12:14 PM

So I called his IMS in MD and she won't treat him, she told me to find an IMS in PA. :rolleyes:

So I have an appointment tommorow in Towson for an IMS. It is an hour drive for my poor carsick dog. I am truly growing weary from the fight and constantly finding vets, only to find a new vet again and again. :(

Squirt's Mom

05-05-2009, 03:01 PM

Barney's Mom

05-05-2009, 03:50 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I've been following along even tho I haven't posted. I certainly hope the IMS can help him. Are you sure we can't trace Barney's problems back to that hair cut? :p
Hugs and prayers,
Leslie and the girls

ROFL! I wish we could! Poor John will never be allowed to live that down.
He is seeing Dr Martinez tommorow. It's an hour drive, so I guess it could be a lot worse.
Here is a blurb about her from the vets website:
"She conducted research on the pathophysiology of hypertension in canine hyperadrenocorticism as part of her graduate studies. During her residency, she was awarded the Bente Flatland Memorial Award in recognition of her clinical abilities and compassion toward pets and owners."

Lets see, a compassionate vet who is up to date on hyperadrenocorticism....
well that is the best offer that I have had yet :)

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-05-2009, 07:17 PM

I am truly growing weary from the fight and constantly finding vets, only to find a new vet again and again.

From one weary Mom to another...boy, do I ever hear ya' Cheryl! The search (in Munchie's case anyway) seems to go on, and on, and on.....

Dr. Martinez sounds wonderful. Hope she lives up to the "blurb" and you're able to get things sorted out for Barney.

Louise

Truffa's Mom

05-06-2009, 02:25 AM

Here will be crossing paws and fingers, not just for a fast recovery (eye, back pain, high cortisol, car sickness), but also for a good doctor for real and not just on paper....

Lets see, a compassionate vet who is up to date on hyperadrenocorticism....
well that is the best offer that I have had yet .

Barney we will be sending you tons of GOOD ENERGY. And to mom Cheryl another ton probably topped with choco-kisses

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Barney's Mom

05-06-2009, 11:30 AM

I had to cancel todays appointment with the IMS. There was no way I could get his medical records from the vets that quickly. Actually I am feeling pretty positive about this IMS. (I know, I always say that.........rofl) Actually I still think Dr/uncle Rick still has a place in Barney's care, just not managing his cushings or his eye.

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

05-06-2009, 12:47 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Was just catching up on the forum, I was sick, I am so sorry to hear about Barney and having to find a new IMS. Hopefully, Dr Martinez will be the one for Barney.
I'll be praying for you and Barney, and watching for your post.

Take care,
Harley and Lori

ladysmom06

05-06-2009, 02:28 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Just checked in to see how your appt. with the IMS went and saw that you had to cancel it. Hoping you can get there soon and she can help him. Hugs to you and Barney.

Barney's Mom

05-06-2009, 04:05 PM

Thanks guys :)
I need to get his chart from his former IMS. I thought I had enough of a paper trail here from prior vet visits to pull it together, until I started searching for my paper work.
The old CC.net site was almost Barney's diary. I used his thread to look up lab values I had posted, etc.....
I am so lost with out it. My fault entirely, I should have kept the numbers on my computer as well. I had very little documentation, everything was phone calls.

I will get the chart and THEN make the appointment.

Cheryl

Barney's Mom

05-07-2009, 06:45 PM

Barney's eye is looking MUCH better. And the improvement seems to be sustained, overall. He still squints quite a bit, but the eye is opened probably more that it is closed. I am sooo hoping that he is finally healing!

Happy day here!

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

05-07-2009, 07:20 PM

Cheryl, that's great news, so happy to hear Barney's eye is healing. :D
Harley and I are over here doing our Happy Dance!!:D:):D:)

Truffa's Mom

05-07-2009, 10:37 PM

La, la,la,la,la
Happy, happy,happy.

Marcela & The Choco Labs

Harley PoMMom

05-12-2009, 01:40 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Just checking in to see how things are going, how is everything?

Barney's Mom

05-17-2009, 03:58 PM

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been here much the past few days. Crazy busy schedule this week. Our little community hospital is going to computerized charting and I have been in computer class all week.

Barney had an eye appt with Dr Rick. Maybe a slight change for the better, he said before he could see a "lip" or and edge where the cells were building up and not sticking to the membrane. He doesn't see the lip any more.
I see the eye specialist this Tuesday.

Funny thing is I got disgusted with the eye drops. 4 times a day for just the antibiotic eye drop and then the tears, and it seemed all for nothing. This has gone on for months. He and I are both tired. I didn't put his eyedrops in for two days........and his eye looks fantastic! I am talking a HUGE improvement. Not sure if it is coincidence or if maybe the drops were irritating him???? Anyway since our eye appt is only a day away I am going to continue like I have been and see what happens.

Now my other problem. I shampooed my carpets upstairs a few days ago. My dogs are very very good about going potty outside. It can be months or years between accidents. As soon as I shampooed, I am finding pee and poop everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Carpet is beige :rolleyes:
This didn't start until after I shampooed the carpets, and ironically I just bought a new steam cleaner! I am pretty sure it's Beth. I went upstairs to go to bed yesterday morning and she was hiding beside my dresser.
The former owners of this house had cats. Think I may have stirred something up? I don't see any old spots, but there sure are a lot of new ones :mad:

Any suggestions?

forscooter

05-17-2009, 05:05 PM

Oh sure, it's always Beth's fault!!! Beth Beth Beth....sure blame poor Beth...we can take it!

Weird with the eye....but you may be right! Sometimes I think we can overdo (not that you weren't following instructions....just that sometimes I think after a while Mother Nature does better.....my opinion....and it's trial and error...)....I'll be interested to hear what the doc thinks!

As for the carpet, I was once told by a carpet guy that steam cleaners can do just what you are seeing. They make the smell come up but don't get rid of the underlying problem. Kind of like when it's humid and you can smell accidents worse. What I have done in the past, and it has helped, is "shampooed" the carpet with Nature's Miracle. If the area is too large to douse with it straight from the bottle, I have gone over the area letting the carpet cleaner spray it on and then I leave it, put towels down until it dries. Sometimes this has taken a few times....

Now, you go give Beth kissies and tell it's OK, bc the other Beth said so....she's just trying to mark what's her's....not that I have peed on the carpet myself! But surely there is just no way it is her fault....:rolleyes:

Love ya! The Other Beth

Barney's Mom

05-17-2009, 05:43 PM

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-17-2009, 06:37 PM

Right along with "BB", I will also be interested in what Barney's eye doc has to say. Munchie's eye doc certainly had an entirely different opinion from the GP vets he saw.

I've also used Beth's (the human) technique for kitty urine in the carpet. I put the solution into the carpet cleaner, saturate the area and then blow dry with a box fan. Have used Natures Miracle in the past but switched to Simple Solution. Munchie never has had accidents in the house but my senior kitty was a repeat offender. :mad: I have a birch carpet and either brand of the cleaning solution leaves a yellowish residue that I have to wipe off with a damp sponge. With a beige carpet you may end up with the residue too but other than that the stuff seems to work.

Louise

gpgscott

05-17-2009, 08:46 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Glad Barn is looking better and hoping the specialist gives you the high sign.

Can't recommend a product on the carpet issue but what Beth and Louse have said makes sense.

Scott

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-19-2009, 10:29 PM

Hey Cheryl,

How did Barney's eye appointment go????

Louise

Barney's Mom

05-19-2009, 10:48 PM

Hey!
The ulcer is healing, the vet said there are new blood vessels forming to bring blood to the eye and that a clot is forming over the affected area. (thats a good thing) He also said the blood vessels would dissipate after the area has healed over. He said ulcers with no vessels have a 30% chance of healing while cases like Barney where the vessels have formed have a 70% chance of healing. He feels that Barneys will heal within the next 2 weeks to a month. He wants to see him after the scab or clot dissipates.
He also said Barney has a corneal membrane defect. He showed me how the new cells just move loosely over the eye instead of adhering. He said he has a 99% chance of a new ulcer forming in that eye or in the other eye.

There is a procedure where they "burn" little holes into the cornea (100 in each eye) He never gave me the name of the procedure! I want to read up on it. But he has performed over 2200 of them and has never had a failure and has never lost a dog. He wants to do both eyes because with Barney's kidney issues and his age he may not be a candidate for anesthesia in the future and with an almost certain chance of recurrence he feels we should do this in a month or so. It would be 845.00 for one eye and 1275.00 plus medications for both eyes. I was expecting worse :)
What do you all think?

BestBuddy

05-19-2009, 11:20 PM

Good news about the ulcer. Surgery is always something that has to be carefully considered but the fact that there will be more ulcers and they could be even more difficult to treat and heal that I would (my opinion only) go ahead with the surgery. I haven't heard of the "burn" procedure so I will have to google it so I understand what it all means.
Jenny

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-20-2009, 12:35 AM

I second Jenny's opinion, I'd opt for the surgery. I have no idea what the procedure is but if the eye doc has performed over 2,200 of them and has never had a failure, that sounds pretty darned good IMO!

Louise

lucygoo

05-20-2009, 01:16 AM

Hi Cheryl....That sounds good to me. I would DEFINATELY do the surgery..

Gina and Lucy

Harley PoMMom

05-20-2009, 07:35 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Hey there girl :D I know how busy your schedule is, so I had some time to surf on the internet and I typed in:
a procedure where they "burn" little holes into the cornea (100 in each eye) for a dog and found this: multiple punctate keratotomy, do you think this might be the procedure? I found this link,http://www.furrycritter.com/health/dogs/Corneal_ulcer.htm kinda interesting, doesn't tell you alot, tho.

Just tryin to help ya out. Give Barney a big hug from Harley and me and I'm so happy his eye is doing better.

gpgscott

05-20-2009, 07:54 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I am guessing that the holes anchor the cornea. I am sorry that Barney has this condition but it sounds like its either the surgery or continuing issues that may be even more threatening.

I know you will make the right descision.

Scott

AlisonandMia

05-20-2009, 08:39 PM

Here's something on the procedure: http://dspace.library.cornell.edu:8080/bitstream/1813/2898/1/2004%20Plant.pdf

If you google "thermokeratoplasty ulcer dog" there is quite a lot of info out there.

Alison

Barney's Mom

05-20-2009, 10:59 PM

Well Hello!
Nice place we have here. :p
Barney's not 12 until June 19th, but I figured since it's right around the corner he is almost 12.
Thanks Lori and Alison, the procedure "thermal punctate Keratoplasty" is exactly the procedure he described! Thanks so much for the links.
Every day his eye looks better. He came home yesterday squinting, but he had a lot done to that eye. Today it's wide open again, and the haziness cloudiness has improved over the past weeks.

We changed eyedrops to ensure there is no underlying infection, and we go back in a month or so, after the "scab" that is forming in his eye goes away. I guess then we schedule the procedure.
It's almost hard to do this to him now as he is finally healing, but from what I was reading they heal completely within a month, and a huge improvement in days.
The poor old boy has been through so much.

It's nice to be "home"!

forscooter

05-20-2009, 11:21 PM

MiniSchnauzerMom

05-20-2009, 11:25 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Glad to see you and the Barnster here at our new home!!! I'll have to go read about the procedure. Never heard of it before. I learn something new all the time here, which is good as it keeps my brain cells active. :D

Glad Barney's eye is starting to improve.

Louise

Barney's Mom

05-21-2009, 12:09 AM

Cheryl,

I'd go for it. Having a bad eye is just miserable...and he is only 12 years young. Usually I am really conservative when it comes to surgery, as you know, but Barney has plenty of life left in him and if it will make him more comfy and fix the problem, I'd do it.

Put the tin can on your step for collections...and I am sure the money fairy will come soon! I wait every night...

I do hope he feels better and this will solve the problem once and for all! (This way too he can see better when he pees by your bed and Beth can get off the hook! Poor Beth!)
Love ya, my friend! Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

I think miss Beth needs to come to your house for a visit! You are now "Aunt B!" to avoid confusion :D
The stains came out completely and it smells clean to me, but I am not taking any chances with her, I am getting that cleaner you recommended, and for now I am keeping the door shut.

Loves,
Cheryl

lulusmom

05-21-2009, 12:35 AM

Hey Cheryl, I am so glad to see that you and Barney are here in our new and improved, fabulous home.

Seeing's how I have more than my share of pee buckets, I've been meaning to give you some of my own tips. I buy Natures Miracle by the case...the 1 1/2 gallon size with the battery operated sprayer. I bought a black light at Walmart for less than $10. All you do is wait for the sun to go down, turn out the lights and turn on the black light. Sweep the floor about 10 inches above the carpet and believe me, you'll see the pee spots cuz they light up like a neon sign. Take your sprayer and saturate the spot and I mean douse it really good cuz you want to saturate the pad too. It will not mold or mildew so don't worry about sopping it up. Just let it dry. If the pee spots are so numerous that you'll be standing there all night, then shampooing the carpet is probably a good idea.

Glynda

P.S. I was thrilled to hear that Barney's eye is finally on the mend but probably not as thrilled as Barney. Poor guy, it was a long time coming.

Barney's Mom

05-21-2009, 08:25 AM

Thanks Glynda :)
I have been so lucky with accidents. Even when Barney was peeing like crazy he never peed in the house. Beth was potty trained a week after we had her and only one accident that week. In Barney's 12 years I can count his accidents on my hands and still have fingers left. But after I shampooed that carpet and stirred up that cat scent, Beth was up there marking every chance she could. And my dog can't just pee to mark her scent, she has to pee and poop :rolleyes: !
I am thankful that it is only in one confined area.

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

05-21-2009, 09:25 PM

Hi Cheryl,

For Harley I buy those puppy training pads, they're 21"x23", so I put enough of them down where he pees. They really hold his pee, no urine soaks thru.

forscooter

05-21-2009, 10:22 PM

And my dog can't just pee to mark her scent, she has to pee and poop !

Hey, why do something halfway? If you're going to do it, finish the job!

Love ya! Aunt B

Barney's Mom

05-22-2009, 07:23 AM

I bought a black light last night. EWWWWW! ;) Pretty amazing, The spots were undectectable by me until I turned on the black light. Just like Glynda says, they glow like a neon sign!

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

05-31-2009, 04:26 PM

Hey Cheryl,

Just dropping in to see how Barney's eye is doing, any change?

How's the pee and poop scent marking going? :eek::D

Lori and Harley

Barney's Mom

05-31-2009, 06:55 PM

Hey Lori!
All is well here. The eye doctor said that as the healing in his eye progresses we would see a clot in his eye. This is a good thing because it means that new blood vessels have formed and are bringing blood to the eye to heal it. I noticed earlier this week that he does have a clot!
So I think he will definitely heal on his own, and then we need to get him cleared by his vet to have the surgery on his eye so this doesn't happen again.
Something that has bothered me is the fact that no one, even the eye specialist tested him for dry eye. Dry eye can cause an ulcer. I will bring this up with the specialist when we go again. He didn't want to see Barney until after the clot dissipates.
Other than that stuff is good here.
Too much rain! I need to weed my flower beds. The weeds are taller and healthier than my flowers!

Cheryl

forscooter

05-31-2009, 10:14 PM

Love the blood clots!!!!! :eek: Good thing mom is a medical professional!! :eek:

And don't feel bad about the weeds....I just pulled one out today that all spring I thought was going to be a flower :cool:

As long as it's green, it counts!

Healing hugs still being sent!!! And lots of soothing cuddles for the one who gets blamed for everything who will go nameless...

Love ya! Aunt B

PS...Can I at least be Aunt BB bc Aunt B reminds me of Andy Griffith's Aunt Bea...not that I didn't love her but I am soooooo much younger! LOL!:rolleyes:

Barney's Mom

06-01-2009, 09:18 AM

LOL Beth!
I have something growing out in my front flower bed that is over 3 feet high. John asked me yesterday what I planned to do with "King Weed."
I tried convincing John that weeds were merely undesireable plants. Why should they lose their life just because we don't find them appealing?

Cheryl

gpgscott

06-01-2009, 10:47 AM

I tried convincing John that weeds were merely undesireable plants. Why should they lose their life just because we don't find them appealing?

Cheryl

Because we are men and we have big noisy weedwackers!:D
And because we can, (but I think mainly the man thing to impress the ladies:cool:)

Barney's Mom

06-01-2009, 01:33 PM

Because we are men and we have big noisy weedwackers!:D
And because we can, (but I think mainly the man thing to impress the ladies:cool:)

:cool: Indeed!
Cheryl

lulusmom

06-01-2009, 02:09 PM

Because we are men and we have big noisy weedwackers!:D
And because we can, (but I think mainly the man thing to impress the ladies:cool:)

If you ask my husband, Gil, he'll tell you that I'm the big noisy weedwacker. :p

Barney's Mom

07-06-2009, 07:07 PM

Barney's back went out on him again. We have had several bouts of hind leg weakness recently and this morning he fell as he went down the stairs. Thankfully he was on the last step, he yelped and growled at John as he picked him up. He couldn't walk at all and his legs were limp as spaghetti and he appeared to be paralyzed. John picked him up to put him in the car and he found his legs trying to run back into the house. We found a neurosurgeon in MD and drove him down. Thank G-d we still had valium and tramadol here for him. Neurosurgeon is one of only two in MD that is board certified. The next closest was over 2 hours away. He goes tommorow for another MRI and then for surgery on Wednesday if our suspicions are confirmed by the MRI. Vet says hes 98% sure its nerve impingement from the herniated disc. He also has some spine degeneration on L5, L6. He wants to do all three areas to make sure we have eliminated his pain.
I am going down for his MRI tommorow. We have to drive to a human facility about 15miles away from there. (evidently we really lucked out last time being at a facility with an MRI)

I hate like hell leaving him there tonight :( I know nothing about this guy and have to go blindly into him operating on my dog. He seems very knowledgeable, asked a ton of questions about his cushings and his other health issues. He was friendly and has been a neurosurgeon for 10 years. And he has 10 dogs of his own. Strangely enough that made me feel better about him than anything. He loves dogs. He can't be bad right? ;)

Harley PoMMom

07-06-2009, 07:24 PM

Oh Cheryl,

Poor Barney, I feel so, so sorry for both of you. Thru our emails you were saying about his back but I had no ideal it was like this :( If there anything I can do, let me know.

Hugs to you and Barney.
Lori

PS
I think the neurosurgeon sounds like a very qualified guy and your gut seems to be telling you too.

Squirt's Mom

07-06-2009, 07:39 PM

Oh Cheryl!

I am so sorry to read this! Poor Barney! :( He must really have been in pain to growl at John. Thank goodness he was on the last step! You just have to have faith that this doc will do fine with Barney. It sounds like he has had plenty of time on the job both as a doc and a pup parent so he will understand how special Barney is to you and do his utmost to send him home better than ever.

Try to get some rest if you can, the next few days may be quite draining. You know we are here and please let us know how things are progressing.

Big hugs,
Leslie and the girls

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-06-2009, 08:04 PM

Barney's Mom

07-06-2009, 10:44 PM

Cheryl,

I'm so sorry to read about Barney's dilemma with his back/spine. Poor guy. I know how worrisome this has got to be for you. The fact that the neurosurgeon is friendly and knowledgeable, asked tons of questions about all of Barney's health conditions, has 10 years experience under his belt and loves dogs all sound like a plus to me!

I'll be thinking positive thoughts for you and Barney tomorrow when he goes for his MRI.

Louise

P.S. I'm almost afraid to ask with all this going on but I will anyway....how's his eye?

The eye is good! The clot came in just like the vet said it would. After the clot came in he stopped squinting and has been good since. We haven't been back to confirm with the vet yet, and now it will be some time. He was supposed to have eye surgery to ensure this never happened again, but we had to wait until the eye had healed and the clot went away and now this happened.
I am so hoping this will eliminate all of his pain. He never did heal entirely after his last back incident. He would do good for a month or so and then limp, good for a couple months and then limp......
Hoping this resolves it for good.

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-06-2009, 11:19 PM

I am so hoping this will eliminate all of his pain. He never did heal entirely after his last back incident. He would do good for a month or so and then limp, good for a couple months and then limp......
Hoping this resolves it for good.

Me too!!!!

gpgscott

07-07-2009, 12:01 PM

Hi Cheryl and fam!

I don't know about herniated disks in dog and how they respond to surgery but if it is anything like in humans the relief from pain is immediate. Its nice to hear that the eye is well on the way to being healed.

Best wishes to Barney for a speedy recovery.

Scott

Barney's Mom

07-07-2009, 02:05 PM

Thanks Guys :)
He had a good night. The boy is stoned stupid on Fentanyl but he is out of pain. The doctor knew Barn has a history of pancreatitis, so in his preop blood work he did an Amylase, and he is slightly elevated, so possibly he has pancreatitis again! BTW many Kudos to the doc for thinking of this. ;)
When he had pancreatitis the last time we attributed it to the cushings disease as well as his diet, but not this time :confused::confused::confused::confused: I suspect he may have chronic pancreatitis, and the numbers are reflecting this. All his other numbers were good and his renal values were excellent, the best they have ever been!

We are going for his MRI tonight. We have to drive to his clinic and then to a human MRI facility 15miles away. There will be a caravan of 6 patients going, lol. We will be there an ungodly amount of time, as each scan takes about an hour. They said to bring a book :)

I really want some quality of life here for him. I so hope this works.

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-07-2009, 04:22 PM

Cheryl,

Thinking positive thoughts for the Barnster tonight when he gets his MRI. Great news about his renal values. Sounds like the doc is both sharp and thorough in considering Barney's past history w/pancreatitis and checking out that Amylase.

Anyway, good luck with the "doggie caravan" and enjoy reading your book while you wait (yeah, sure!)

Louise

ventilate

07-07-2009, 05:25 PM

Cheryl;
I am so sorry to hear about Barney's back again. I know what stoned stupid looks like and if wasnt so sad it would be funny;) Best of luck at the MRI and hope it is what the neurosurgeon thinks it is and it can be fixed for good.
will be thinking about you guys. I am guessing that the MRI of a dogs spine probably takes as long as a persons, so it probably is an hr.
Hugs to you
Sharon

Barney's Mom

07-08-2009, 12:17 AM

Just got back from the MRI. What a long day! He has a HUGE disc herniation at the lumbosacral joint. It is definitely compressing his spinal cord, and I am damned lucky it didn't paralyze him when he fell. Doc gave us an 80% chance that the surgery will completely eliminate his pain and weakness and rear leg and hip muscle atrophy. He showed me a lot of things on Barney that I thought were cushings related that are really related to his bad back.

He is calm and quiet until we get there and then he tries to herd us out of the building and in to the car........except he is too stoned to know which car is his (he usually does know his car) so he stands in front of the back door of every car we walked past, lol.
Once in the car, a couple kisses and 5 minutes later, he was sound asleep, he never realized the car wasn't moving :p! Didn't matter to him I guess, he was out of the vets and was with his mommy and daddy :)
We drove him to the MRI facility at 4:00 and kept him in the car until they were ready for him, and then after the MRI we carried him out to the car and he stayed there with us until we drove him back to the neurosurgeon's at 8:30 this evening.

Tomorrow is the big day. His surgery is mid morning. Praying hard that all goes well.

Barney and Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-08-2009, 12:28 AM

Cheryl,

He is calm and quiet until we get there and then he tries to herd us out of the building and in to the car........except he is too stoned to know which car is his (he usually does know his car) so he stands in front of the back door of every car we walked past, lol.
This is so funny, sorry :(:)

Will be praying my a$& off, crossing all fingers, toes, paws and anything else I can find.

Hugs to you, John and the Barn.
Lori

Truffa's Mom

07-08-2009, 03:03 AM

Ohhh Gosh, I just read about Barney's back problem.....again!!!.
I will be praying and making sure my babies cross their fingers and their tails for an uneventful and a positive outcome on his surgery.

It seems like you and him are in good hands. Barney you will be invited to a big dancing ceremony, I'll bet that your pain free back would have incredible moves that would make you the King of the party. Choco kisses to mommy and daddy.

Barney's Mom

07-08-2009, 05:30 PM

Barney's out of surgery. Doc said it went very very well. He had a lot of scar tissue around the L7/S1 junction and the nerve roots in this area were very very compressed. He worked on L5 thru S1. He is very happy with his work, especially the nerve root decompression. I unfortunately am working tonight so I can't see him. I will go after work in the morning. I work Friday and Saturday and then I am on vacation for a week so I will be home with him. Lucky fella he is :rolleyes: Isn't that a wonderful coincidence? John took off Friday to stay home with him.

I am so happy and relieved that things went really well.

Cheryl

Carol G

07-08-2009, 05:59 PM

What great news to hear everything went so well. Here's to a very speedy recovery!

Carol, Atty Cat & always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom

07-08-2009, 06:09 PM

Oh Cheryl,

That is GREAT news, I am sooo happy for you and the Barn.

Wishing Barney a speedy recovery too.

Were is Louise and her blender? We need to celebrate.:D

Hugs, tons of hugs to you, John and Barney and Beth too.
Lori

gpgscott

07-08-2009, 06:25 PM

Very good news Cheryl.

Sorry that Barn will have to be surgeried upon but given the diagnositics he should have tremendous relief.

Thinking about you all.

Scott

gpgscott

07-08-2009, 06:39 PM

Oh Cheryl,

Were is Louise and her blender? We need to celebrate.:D

Hugs, tons of hugs to you, John and Barney and Beth too.
Lori

OH, NO!,

You know not what you wish:eek:

Louise, who is reasonably sane, gets out of control when the blender is invoked:D

Cheryl knows:rolleyes:

Squirt's Mom

07-08-2009, 07:35 PM

lulusmom

07-08-2009, 07:39 PM

Cheryl,

I am so happy that Barney's surgery went so well. Isn't it great when things are smooth sailing instead of the usual runaway train or worse yet, a train wreck? We'll be keeping fingers and paws crossed for an uneventful and speedy recovery.

Glynda

Truffa's Mom

07-08-2009, 09:00 PM

Yey Barney!!!!!!! now heal promptly!!!! I'd keep invoking the Blender insane lady, no matter if the Hammer try to pursued us.... we will be doing our hula hula dance with ukelele rhythmic sound, gorgeous yellow orchids flowers around our choco-necks and waiting to cheer up for your complete recovery with a special blend of Margarita....and we will need the Blender!!!

Big hooray for your sweet hubby, we will never forget his misstep in the grooming department, but his big heart and big help deserves a very big big applause.

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-08-2009, 10:10 PM

Cheryl,

What a relief that everything went well for Barney, Hope he has a rapid recovery and no more pain!

He is calm and quiet until we get there and then he tries to herd us out of the building and in to the car........except he is too stoned to know which car is his (he usually does know his car) so he stands in front of the back door of every car we walked past, lol. Except for the stoned part....this sounds like me looking for my car in the parking lot. I've had it for 6 years but it looks like everything else. Oh geeeeeezzzzzz.....I think I have turned into my Mother. :eek:

Hey, "Hammer"....whatcha mean I get out of control when the blender is invoked????? I'll have you know I put my blender to good use by whipping Munchie up a cool, tall summer drink.....a fish & potato smoothie with crushed ice......mmmmmmm! I might be able to convince him to share, maybe. :D

Louise

Barney's Mom

07-09-2009, 12:15 AM

I could go for something blended right now. My patients probably could too, lol!
Relieved that all went well. You are right Glynda, it is refreshing to have something actually go good for a change. Lets hope his post operative time goes just as well.
Barney was just waking up when they called me, so I don't know how strong or weak he his in his back legs right now. The vet tech told me they could get initially weaker before they get stronger.
I have a pager number for the vet himself for after hours, but they don't accept incoming calls after hours in the clinic.

Missing him tonight. I am glad that I am working.

Cheryl

Barney's Mom

07-09-2009, 01:07 AM

Hey Cheryl,

What great news about Barney's surgery! :D:D I hope all goes well from here on out and that he is able to enjoy his new home! He never has brought you any of the bugs that love to hang out around crops, has he? Maybe now he will feel like gifting you one of these days soon! :p

Thanks for sharing with us and do let us know how things go.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

No bugs yet Leslie! I did have a lady bug invasion last fall, but that has been the worst of it. I have so many fireflies, it is so beautiful at night, the fields behind me go on forever, and the lighting bugs look like diamonds shining. I sit out there every night I am home and watch the fireflies.
I think the spray they use must prevent too many bugs. Thank G-d its not an organic farm, lol.
I do have a ground hog however. :)

Thanks everyone for the support :) It means alot!
Barney and Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-09-2009, 07:29 PM

Hey Cheryl,

Where is our Barney update? :confused::eek::D I know you are busy, worried, tired, working, sleep deprived, and probably trying to do a hundred different things before Barney comes home, but where is our Barney update? We're worried too!:(:)

Hugs to you and the Barn.
Lori

Barney's Mom

07-09-2009, 08:45 PM

went to see him this morning after work. He was so wild and kept trying to herd us out the door. He wouldn't sit still at all so we left after 5-10 minutes. I was afraid that he was going to injure his back. He will probably come home tommorow. He has a 4 inch incision on his back.
Spoke with the vet tech who said he is doing very well. It is not unusual for dogs to become weak and incontinent in the days immediately following the surgery. Barney is walking pretty well, his bowel and bladder functions are intact. He seems strong but I did notice some shaking in his hind legs. He is so anxious and worked up it is hard to tell.
We need to build a ramp the vet doesn't want him going up and down stairs.

frijole

07-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Thanks for the update and great news that our guy is coming home. I know you must be relieved. Kim

Squirt's Mom

07-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Hey Cheryl,

It's so hard to see them want us so badly when we are worried about them hurting themselves in the process. As difficult as I'm sure it was to cut the visit short, I'm sure it was the right thing for Barney. He will get good rest there tonite and be back home with his family tomorrow. :D:D:D Which is wonderful news! :D

You get a good nites rest, too! You may have your hands full the next few days.

And be sure all the scissors, clippers, etc. are out of sight when Barney arrives so as not to stress him out right off the bat! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Barney's Mom

07-10-2009, 12:05 AM

We are building barney a ramp to get in and out of the house, as the vet said no stairs. My better half is not the handyman type. He is out there now with a power saw and I am concerned.
The last ramp John built Barney refused to walk on :p

BestBuddy

07-10-2009, 01:00 AM

Hi Cheryl,
I know what you mean about hubby handmen.:eek: The ramp will be built with love if not expertise. I do hope Barney will use it!
Jenny

Barney's Mom

07-10-2009, 01:48 AM

The ramp is built. We put side walls up on the sides of the ramp so they won't go over the sides. I got some nice indoor outdoor carpet for the flooring of the ramp so the dogs have traction. and I think he did a very good job.........well for John anyway. Beth, our other dog begs to differ. SHE won't walk on it, lol. I even put a piece of cheese in the middle of the ramp to coax her, but she wants no part of this.........
Pics coming soon.

AlisonandMia

07-10-2009, 01:56 AM

You don't think it's possible that you and/or John are going to end up walking up and down this ramp carrying Barney, do you???

Just don't hurt your backs, OK?:p;)

Alison

frijole

07-10-2009, 08:24 AM

:D:D:D

Thanks for the laughter this a.m. The visuals are killing me on this. Bless your husbands heart for the effort. I hope Alison's prediction doesn't come to pass.

Kim

forscooter

07-10-2009, 10:00 AM

Hey there Cheryl!

I have been reading and following just not a lot of time to post anything...and I've been praying and sending all my best too. I am so glad Barney is coming home and that you have things all situated for him....and you! I can only imagine how happy you are to be waiting for the homecoming!!!

Please give Barney lots and lots of kissies from us!!! And know that although I may be "absent", I'm really not....just running and running...

Love ya! Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Barney's Mom

07-10-2009, 10:09 AM

You don't think it's possible that you and/or John are going to end up walking up and down this ramp carrying Barney, do you???

Just don't hurt your backs, OK?:p;)

Alison

ROFL! We probably will be Alison!

Kim you should have been here :eek:

Beth DID go down the ramp last night, and she went down it again this morning. Maybe there's hope for Barney yet!

Squirt's Mom

07-10-2009, 01:38 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I, too, got a kick out of the images your posts have wrought this morning! :D:p You and John get some of those back braces just in case! LOL

Hopefully, Barney will follow Beth's lead on the ramp and back injuries will be minimal. ;)

Hugs and prayers,
Leslie and the girls

Barney's Mom

07-10-2009, 02:05 PM

Just brought my little bundle of joy home. He walked up the ramp, now lets see how he does going down. His back legs are strong as an ox's! He got home and ate two full size rice cakes and an entire can of prescription dog food. Drank a lot of water. He wants out of the crate and is moaning practically almost howling.
I don't think its pain as he is walking so well, eating and drinking. He repositions himself fine in the crate. I think its emotional, he has had a hard 5 days.
The vet did give me sedatives for him, thank G-d. The vet was suprised at how active he is and how wild. He said the wished he good give some of it to the slug in the next crate, lol.
If he keeps moaning like this it is going to be a loooong 8 weeks.
(maybe I should take the sedatives)
I have to go to bed now, I have to go to work tonight :(

All is well here!

Harley PoMMom

07-10-2009, 02:15 PM

Cheryl this is great news. So glad the Barn is using the ramp that John & you built.

Hopefully Barney will settle down after a bit and let you get some sleep, you poor girl, you must be exhausted.

(maybe I should take the sedatives)
I don't think Barney would mind sharing with his Mom!:D

Sleep tight.
Lori

Squirt's Mom

07-10-2009, 02:56 PM

Great news, Cheryl! :D I bet it is just the excitement of being back home plus being really tired of being crated that has him moaning so. If you have some article of clothing you could put in there with him, that might calm him some, and of course, letting him know it is all ok with your loving care.

Keep the sedatives handy! And ask about refills!! :p

Sleep well!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

ladysmom06

07-11-2009, 09:10 AM

Hi Cheryl,

Glad :D:D to hear that Barney is home and on the road to recovery. Keeping him in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs to the two of you.

frijole

07-11-2009, 09:16 AM

Cheryl, if it isn't pain then it has to be good.... he's feisty and fighting. Glad the ramp is working out. Hugs, Kim

gpgscott

07-11-2009, 07:12 PM

Cheryl,

It all sounds pretty good, I bet he settles down after a day or so.

Stay out of his meds:eek:

Scott

Barney's Mom

07-12-2009, 04:28 PM

Barney seems to be doing good. He has settled in to a routine and is a lot calmer. The vet gave him a sedative, Acepromezine, we stopped giving that. I think it made him confused, anxious, and restless. I give him Tramadol 3 times a day for pain, and I have Valium here from his last back episode. I give him the Valium when he is fitful.

He does have some pain, it hurts him to get up and walk, but he does great once he is up. Been feeding him HIll's i/d diet for his pancreas. I just have the feeling that the pancreas are giving us more trouble than the back is. He is eating, and he drinks plenty, but there are times he doesn't want to eat, and that is not my Barney.

John always gets him a toy from the pet store when he picks up dog food. He has done this for years. Barney sees John walk in with the dog food and he knows John has something for him. He walked in with the prescription diet, which is cans and a different color bag than his normal food but Barney still knew. He stood up in the crate and peeked around the corner wanting to know what John had in the shopping bag. It was so cute.

He whines sometimes but not like he did the day he got home. Today is post op day 4, only 56 days of crate rest left!

Harley PoMMom

07-12-2009, 04:53 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I think the ace. did the same thing to LucyGoo too, if I remember right, Gina had a hell of a night with her on that stuff.

Tramadol...hmm...I think that was Rx'd to myself once, had to get something stronger tho.

So happy Barney is doing much better and is in a routine...love to see some pics.

Hang in there...56 days of crate rest left! :eek::D We're here for you girl.

Lori

gpgscott

07-12-2009, 04:58 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I don't like the ACE either, I have found it an effective pain reliever but Moria has been way too active when on it and hard to handle. I also prefer the combination of Tramadol and Valium.

Continued wishes for a speedy recovery.

Scott

Truffa's Mom

07-12-2009, 08:25 PM

Gee 56 days on crate rest..... well its gonna be a whole ton of toys also!!!:p, I just imagine the adorable cute face of Barney looking at your husband and poof another day has fly away.

I don't know what Ace is but have tried on Truffa the Tramadol and was very effective, although the dosage varies from dog to dog, I had to lowered the dose, but Barney 's body seems to be OK with the dosage that you are administering to him. You are a great mommy!!!

Will keep sending our healing thoughts

Barney's Mom

07-13-2009, 11:52 AM

Just waking up here. Finally got a temp on Barney. He was laying with his butt by the door of the crate and I seized the opportunity. I have destroyed any trust he had in me. Fortunately for him I had a couple packs of surgical lube from work left over in my scrub pocket :cool: He growled, that is his least favorite thing, but his temp is normal. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

You know.......my boy looks hideous. He is seriously chopped up looking. All 4 paws are shaved for blood draws and IV access. The back of his head/neck for a spinal tap. The huge area for his back surgery. Both sides of his torso for the Fentanyl pain patches. It's a good thing his mother loves him!
I guess John will have give him a trim to even him out soon :eek:

lucygoo

07-13-2009, 12:08 PM

Cheryl,
Hope Barney is feeling better. I had to laugh at your description of him, though. I can totally relate. :) Lucy's hair still hasn't grown back from her ultrasound or around her neck from the catheter from surgery. Every time I take her out for a walk, someone invariably asks me.."What happened?" ...then I tell them she had brain surgery. They look at me very confused and walk away...it's hysterical.
I also didn't have a good experience with the Ace. She did fine on it IV in the hospital, but the oral medication was dreadful.
Best wishes for Barney for a speedy recovery:)

Gina

lucygoo

07-13-2009, 01:43 PM

Love the photo of Barney. What a handsome young man, indeed:)

Harley PoMMom

07-13-2009, 01:51 PM

Love the photo's too and thank you sooo much for putting them up there. :D

Hugs to you and the Barn.
Lori

lulusmom

07-13-2009, 02:17 PM

Yay, there is our boy with that incredibly cute smile!!! I've missed his face so thanks for getting his picture up for all to see.

Congrats on the successful surgery and we'll keep fingers and paws crossed for an uneventful and speedy recovery.

Glynda

Barney's Mom

07-15-2009, 08:55 PM

Barney continues to do well. We have been having a hard time getting him up and out of the crate for walks, we stopped using a leash and he is doing much better! He hates the leash, and I do remember the last time he was on crate rest we had to stop using the leash as well. He now comes out willingly and he stays out longer. (before he would pee and run right back in the house)
Today he went out and followed Beth around the house. He seems stronger in his hind legs and his spirits are up.
I also cut back his pain medication now. He was getting 50mg of Tramadol every 8 hours, and now he is getting 25mg of Tramadol every 8 hours. It seems to work for him.
Since it is 6 days post op I am hoping we can stop the temps. He hates it and snarls at me.

gpgscott

07-15-2009, 08:59 PM

Cheryl,

Keep John away from him with the clippers:eek:

Sounds good. There is some surgical pain but the relief from the compressed nerves should be gone.

The confinement will go quicker than you think.

Scott

Harley PoMMom

07-15-2009, 09:30 PM

Hey Cheryl,

I was just going to ask for a Barn update and there it is. :D Glad he's doing well.

Is he still using the ramp?

Well, Cheryl, I can't say I blame him about the snarling. He does at least get a treat or toy after the butt-temps. :)

Hugs.
Lori

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-15-2009, 09:36 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Great report on Barney and glad to hear that his recovery is going well. I'll bet both the Barnster and you are thinking "good riddance" to the thermometer. :D

Louise

frijole

07-15-2009, 09:37 PM

we want photos! we want photos! we want photos! :D:D:D

Hugs to you and Barney.... Kim

Barney's Mom

07-15-2009, 09:38 PM

Yes the ramp has been a success! He does get a treat after temps.
He is restful and alert and he isn't whining to get out, although he will stand and go to the crate door on occasion. As a matter of fact, he hasn't whined in days :)
He mostly goes straight to the crate after pottying, although today he went straight to his regular food bowl.

One thing that does concern me is that before surgery he would lift his left leg up. Post op it is his right leg that is weak. Weird?
I am hoping I am just paranoid.

Cheryl

Barney's Mom

07-18-2009, 11:10 PM

Barn continues to do well. Today is 11 days post op. He moaned and carried on for two days after the surgery, but I stopped the ace and increased his pain meds and he has been fabulous ever since. He is now on 1/2 a tramadol twice a day. He has only whined twice in the past nine days, and both times we were watching tv on the couch in front of his crate. I think he wanted to be with us. I don't respond when he whines like this, it is hard but if he thinks that is effective, none of us will have any peace. I do however let him in the living room on the carpet and I stay on the ground with him for a few minutes after he comes in from pottying. The minute he gets up to wander off somewhere I tell him to get in the crate and he does. It is hard being tough on him, but I want him to heal properly.

Kim there are some pics of him in the gallery. I wanted to get pics of him out side in the yard today but John let him out when I took a nap.

Will try again tommorow.

Cheryl

frijole

07-18-2009, 11:14 PM

Cheryl... :o I saw the lovely photos of dear Barney.. I should have been more clear. We want photos of the RAMP that was made with pure love. :D

Am glad to hear of the progress.. I don't envy you having to ignore the cries for attention.. that would be awfully tough. You are doing great! Hang in there! Kim

Barney's Mom

07-19-2009, 01:11 AM

Ramp pics coming tommorow when it is light out, I promise. I can't believe I forgot to take pics of the ramp.
He went out tonight and was really strong on those hind legs. HUGE improvement. Then John ran in the garage to kill a spider, of course Barney ran after him. I had a heart attack on the spot and yelled at John, at which point barney went up the ramp to go back in the house.
No harm done though. Whewww.
Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2009, 02:07 AM

Barney's Mom

07-19-2009, 02:13 AM

Ramps pics, yahoo :) Barney's hind legs really strong, another yahoo :) A SPIDER :eek::eek::eek: I can handle snakes, mice, rats...any kind of varmints...critters..but noooo spiders.

So happy Barney is doing so well, and it sounds like things are going pretty smoothe...except for this one incident...glad no harm was done.

I know what you mean about the tough love, but you have to do what you have to do, especially when it's for their health and safety.

Hugs to you and Barney.
Lori

Aunt Lori is going to have to come over......You are 10 minutes away and I am home for the next two days :)
Ps........I have THE BLENDER Don't tell Scott
I went to pick up dinner from Lighthouse seafood. That is the longest I have left my little furbaby alone since this whole ordeal.
It is so hard being a stay at home mom, lol! He is such a good baby.
I go back to work Wednesday. Isn't ironic that I had taken time off from work, but had yet to make plans? It worked out perfectly.

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2009, 02:35 AM

Aunt Lori is going to have to come over......You are 10 minutes away and I am home for the next two days
All you need to do is call me.:)

Ps........I have THE BLENDER Don't tell Scott
CALL ME !!!

I went to pick up dinner from Lighthouse seafood. That is the longest I have left my little furbaby alone since this whole ordeal.
This is bc you are such a loving, doting, and devoted Mom.

Barney's Mom

07-19-2009, 02:45 AM

CALL ME !!!

LOL!
Ok.......call you tommorow. OR I guess technically later today.

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2009, 02:56 AM

I go back to work Wednesday. Isn't ironic that I had taken time off from work, but had yet to make plans?

Ok.......call you tommorow. OR I guess technically later today.
Sounds like a really good plan to me. :D:cool::eek::p

gpgscott

07-19-2009, 05:12 PM

It's not the blender that I have an issue with, it is Louise's facination with exotic:eek: drinks:D

Louise should be a producer for one of those reality shows.

:cool:

forscooter

07-19-2009, 10:32 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Just checking in and seeing Barney is healing well. I am very glad!!:D He really has come such a long way from the sound of things and hopefully each day now will bring healing faster than the day before!!

Lots of hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-20-2009, 03:50 AM

Hi Cheryl,

Your update on Barney sounds very, very good! I'm so glad that those back legs are stronger and he is showing a huge improvement. Looking forward to the ramp pics.

Louise

Barney's Mom

07-21-2009, 02:42 AM

Ok, finally the pics of the ramp made with love are up. Actually, after looking at the pics, I don't blame Beth for not wanting to walk on it. I can't believe any of us actually do!
Lori (Harley PoMMom) walked on it and survived! I hope we didn't scar you too badly!

Barney, Beth and Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-21-2009, 03:53 AM

Cheryl,

I think the ramp is fabulous, it felt sturdy under my feet, and Beth and Barney go up and down it like it's always been there. You both did a remarkable job on the "ramp built with love," and it shows.

Barney really looks and acts amazing for a pup who had major surgery less than 13 days ago, he's a tough and very beautiful boy.

Did Beth rip the remainder of the stuffing out of that toy? She is a cutie pie too. Both of your furry friends are well behaved, lovable, smart and a pleasure to be around.

Give Beth and Barney some belly rubs from Auntie Lori and Harley.

frijole

07-21-2009, 09:01 AM

That ramp is truly a work of love. I truly mean that. I wouldn't try selling them in the free market but for Barney's needs it is absolutely perfect! I think it is beautiful. Thanks for sharing. The things we do for our loved ones. Hugs, Kim

Roxee's Dad

07-21-2009, 10:31 AM

Hi Cheryl,
Nice ramp:) I built one for my babies and put the indoor / outdoor carpeting on it too. One additional feature you might consider... When Roxee was still able to still use it, she did experience some slipping on the carpet. I went to Home Depot and purchased some no slip strips like you would use on steps. They had an adhesive backing, I added glue to the back and put the strips on top of the carpet about 4 inches apart to give my babies a better grip. Worked great and no slipping on the carpet.

They come in a roll of different width's and you can cut the length you need.

Just a thought incase Barney needs additional grip.

Dollydog

07-21-2009, 11:04 AM

Cheryl,
It's amazing what love will build....the ramp pictures give me some ideas for helping Lady get in and out of the house. Sometimes she will miss one of the stairs on her way outside so I always take her down them. She has no problem coming back up them...unless she wants to be picked up!!
Hope Barney's recovery is smooth and quick,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

gpgscott

07-21-2009, 11:20 AM

Hey Cheryl,

Neat ramp, hoping Barney manages OK with it.

Scott

Barney's Mom

07-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Just got back from the vets. Barney has a very good report! Vet was very impressed with how well he is doing. He said if he is doing this well this quickly that by the end of 8 weeks he will be perfectly normal or very close. His anal tone is completely normal on the right side and a little loose on the left, but definitely improved. I didn't give him a pain pill before we left the house, and he seemed to do beautifully. He said I could stop giving the Tramadol routinely, he should be over any pain from surgery, and he did give me more just in case on and as needed basis.
Vet drew some routine labs and is going to recheck the amylase and lipase. We went over some of the other blood work that they drew postop.
Alk Phos - 193. This is great for Barney! He was in the thousands pre treatment for cushings.
Specific gravity was a tad low, but not too bad- 1.013 (reference range I believe started at 1.015)
Everything else looked good.

So the plan is 6 weeks of crate rest, then gradually increase activity over the following two weeks, then no restrictions! Stairs are fine, but try to restrict him jumping on and off the furniture. Not because of the operative site, but because dogs who have disc disease are prone to other discs slipping.

Thanks John for the tip about the strips. He does pretty good but that right leg isn't 100% yet and they sound like a great idea. I will have to send the other John to home depot. Even he can handle this!

Kim.......so you don't think we have a future business manufacturing doggie ramps? Not even if we named them crooked ramps and paint them?

Thanks everyone for the comments on the ramp :o
It works well for now, and hopefully it is only temporary, although all of us are pretty used to it now, and if it has to stay........

Lori, what was left of the toy remained intact. Your hand wasn't attached to it to make it appealing :)

Barney's Mom

07-21-2009, 01:35 PM

Harley PoMMom

07-21-2009, 02:34 PM

Barney has a very good report!YIPPPEEEE-DI-DO-DANDY... Way to go Barney.

Oh Cheryl, your such a good Mom :D Did the vet comment on his weakness of the right leg?

Well the 6 more weeks of crate rest for Barney should go pretty smoothly, I can't get over how well he takes to the crate, he comes right in from outside and goes right into the crate...he's such a good boy.

Will be looking for the results of the amylase and lipase tests. This is for his pancreas, right, so will be keeping all fingers, paws, toes, and everything else I can find crossed for normal levels.

Hugs to you, Barney, Beth, and John.
Lori and Harley

Barney's Mom

07-21-2009, 11:31 PM

Lori, the vet thought that the right leg weakness was very minimal and from the rest of what he said would resolve. Hoping this is true.
Barney is wiped OUT tonight :)
He has absolutely had it with the vets. He shook the entire car ride. I think the whole ordeal takes so much out of him.
He slept for a really long time today and is dozing on and off now.

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-22-2009, 04:28 AM

Barney is wiped OUT tonight :)
He has absolutely had it with the vets. He shook the entire car ride. I think the whole ordeal takes so much out of him.
He slept for a really long time today and is dozing on and off now.

Poor Barney! He's been through a lot of vet visits with his eye and now his back. Have had the same experience with the Munch. Didn't think he'd ever improve as far as a vet was concerned but with limited visits, to my surprise he actually has. Hope it's the same for Barney. They don't understand we're "doing it out of love and for their own good". :D

Hope his amylase and lipase is back to normal now and glad he is doing so well with his recovery.

Louise

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 09:27 AM

Why is it always one step forward, two steps back? So we go to the vets yesterday and get a wonderful report. Barney did more yesterday activity wise than he has since surgery. He is so wild at the vets and he did a lot of walking. Last night he was sore and limping. Same this morning. He did go out and potty, but only a few steps to the grass and he pees, well a few times, and comes right back in.

Am I paranoid, do you think this is a set back, or just that he over did it yesterday?
I am worried sick :(

Cheryl

AlisonandMia

07-22-2009, 09:40 AM

Do you think it's possible that the incision itself is a bit sore from the increased activity? Are you still taking his temperature?

Alison

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 09:54 AM

Do you think it's possible that the incision itself is a bit sore from the increased activity? Are you still taking his temperature?

Alison

Hi Alison. Sporadically taking his temp. He was a bit elevated yesterday at the vet, but then again he gets so worked up he has NEVER had a normal temp at the vets. He was 103 there, which essentially is normal for him.
The vet tech told me yesterday that at two weeks the post op pain is pretty much over. I know he is still healing in there though. I want to call the vet but they don't open til 9. He has a pager, but I wouldn't call this an emergency I guess, although I am nearly a basket case thinking something may have happened to his surgical site.

Harley PoMMom

07-22-2009, 10:34 AM

Just getting on here and I see Barney is limping...did you get in touch with the vet?

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 10:44 AM

I am waiting for them to call me back.

Harley PoMMom

07-22-2009, 11:14 AM

The incision site itself, does it look swollen or red, does Barney try to get to it, like it bothers him?

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 11:19 AM

The incision looks great. The vet tech just called back, she said that they talked with Dr. Scheuler and "he wasn't too concerned" he felt it could be the extra activity yesterday. IF he doesn't improve with confinement to call him back. I asked how long should I give it before I call back and she said a couple of days.
I asked her if this was common and she said yes, it does happen.

I probably am just over anxious.

Harley PoMMom

07-22-2009, 11:29 AM

I am so glad you called the vet...my motto...Always better safe than sorry.

I would be paranoid too, I mean holy crap the poor Barn just went thru major surgery...I think you are doing a fabulous job...I would be a basket case.

Since the incision looks great, altho I am no expert, I think Barney was just stressed out...Harley gets like that from the vets...when we get home he crashes and sleeps for hours.

Poor Barney...Poor you.

Hugs to both of you.
Lori

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 12:38 PM

So John takes him out to potty a minute ago, and the dog acts like not a thing in the world is wrong. Walking fine, perky, although he did eat grass in his travels.
Maybe is pancreas flaring? But he was LIMPING last night, and some this morning.

I did read somewhere that the pancreas can mimic disc disease. Referred pain maybe???

OR more likely, his neurotic mother has completely lost it. I go back to work tonight and that is a good thing. I will be distracted and won't have as much time to obsess over poor Barney.

Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

07-22-2009, 01:00 PM

Maybe his tummy is just alittle upset from the stress of the vet visit, long car ride...

Wish you well with work tonight...I went in this morning...not much going on...asked for 6-hours of personal time and came home. That's the one hard part of time off from work...going back. :eek::)

Keep us updated on Barney...I don't think you are neurotic...just a loving, doting, caring Mom...but of course being alittle crazy, I think, always helps. :eek::D

Lori

gpgscott

07-22-2009, 02:04 PM

OR more likely, his neurotic mother has completely lost it. I go back to work tonight and that is a good thing. I will be distracted and won't have as much time to obsess over poor Barney.

Cheryl

I vote for lost it!:eek::D

Barney's Mom

07-22-2009, 05:01 PM

I vote for lost it!:eek::D

;) I think so too!

forscooter

07-23-2009, 08:05 AM

Hang in there, Barney!! Mommy will get better soon!!!:D;):D;)

Love ya!Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

PS, yes Cheryl, Allo is huge! LOL! Size of a small doggie! And sometimes he even thinks he is one! I grow my boys big....ecept for Doobie...he was my "little potato"!

Dollydog

07-23-2009, 10:58 AM

Hi Cheryl,
Can I ever relate to the neurotic and lost it part! I think Lady should take medication to live with me!! But that's what red wine and margaritas are for....right?!?
It's not my back that pays for having to carry Lady in and out, it's my left arm and shoulder....but she's only 15 lbs so I should be OK!
Hope the rest of the recovery goes smoothly....just think, if your vet had made a house call instead of you two having to go there, what a difference that would have made in the last few days. ;)
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

Barney's Mom

07-24-2009, 10:37 AM

gpgscott

07-24-2009, 10:40 AM

And ummm.........when did the red wine come in to play? Did I miss something?

Cheryl

A wise person once said, I'd rather have a bottle infrontomy than a frontal lobototomy:D

Barney's Mom

07-24-2009, 10:58 AM

My life is such a roller coaster. The vet called and Barney's lab work reflected that he still has pancreatitis, the lab work was no better or no worse. The vet said feed him rice and low fat cottage cheese for two weeks. He started on and LOVES his new diet. And this morning he had a normal stool. The neurosurgeon believes it is the cushing's causing this. So I am pushing the vet to increase his Lysodren once we get through all of this. Barney's last Post ACTH was 10. I didn't make too many waves about it at the time because he really is asymptomatic and if he is too low his back would hurt and he was itchy. But now that his back is fixed I am going to pursue this. Does anyone know dogs that are treated for cushing's and who are therapeutic are still at risk for pancreatitis, or would this reflect under treatment? I swear I am leaning towards the pancreatitis causing him more pain than the disc.
12 hours on this diet made a huge difference in his mood! He is practically running in the yard this morning. He is actually too perky, I may have to use a leash on potty breaks.

My neighbor was outside in her garden when I took Barn out to potty. She told me that she was just telling her husband yesterday that Barney is moving faster than they have ever seen him move since we moved in there. She thinks he must be feeling better :D
I stopped giving the Tramadol routinely and he seems great with out it!

Wylie's Mom

07-24-2009, 03:29 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I've never posted on your thread before, but I did read through it a couple days ago;). Sorry, I can't answer your question on whether the pancreatitis would resolve if the Cushing's is controlled... I think controlling the Cushing's would help, but other factors can cause our pups to be proned to pancreatitis, too. Here is a good overall article on Pancreatitis - the diet you've started is in line with what is written here, but there are some additional ideas:

http://www.dogaware.com/wdjpancreatitis.html

I'm glad Barney is feeling better. Maybe Barney is "too perky" because he's feeling so great and he's free from crate prison:rolleyes::D:p?

-Susy

ladysmom06

07-24-2009, 05:41 PM

Hi Cheryl,

My neighbor was outside in her garden when I took Barn out to potty. She told me that she was just telling her husband yesterday that Barney is moving faster than they have ever seen him move since we moved in there. She thinks he must be feeling better

Happy:D:D to hear that Barney is recovering well from the surgery and moving faster. Hugs to you and Barney.

gpgscott

07-24-2009, 06:07 PM

Hey Cheryl,

I hope the pancreas settles down and very glad he is having some good days.

Scott

Harley PoMMom

07-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Glad Barney is doing so well...but sorry to hear about the pancreatitis.

The link Susy posted is really interesting...Thank you Susy. :D
The article does say that "Certain conditions may predispose a dog to pancreatitis...," Cushings is listed as one of them.

A wise person once said, I'd rather have a bottle infrontomy than a frontal lobototomy:D

Scott, That was so funny... I never heard that before, but that made my day.

Hugs to all.
Lori

Barney's Mom

07-25-2009, 10:50 AM

Barney seems to be feeling really good this morning too. Normal stools again, and he is eating drinking and feeling well. Mood is great, he is barking at me and doesn't know what he wants first, "love me! no wait, FEED ME! no wait! Let me out!!!! Now Pet me!!" ROFL.

Thanks so much Susy for the article! Quite a few things of interest to me in there.

Pancreatitis occurs in two different forms, acute and chronic, and both may be either mild or severe. Acute pancreatitis occurs suddenly and is more often severe, while chronic pancreatitis refers to an ongoing inflammation that is usually less severe and may even be subclinical (no recognizable symptoms).
Pancreatitis has been associated with immune-mediated diseases, which may include IBD, though the cause-and-effect relationship is not understood. While there is no scientific evidence to support this, some doctors have suggested that food allergies could be a rare cause of recurrent or chronic pancreatitis. I think that IBD could possibly be both a cause and an effect of pancreatitis, or that both could be caused by an underlying autoimmune disease or food allergy.
This I have found in other references, but I can't find a lot on it, at least not in depth. Barney has had IBD since he was a puppy. They think the IBD is caused from food allergies. I am really interested in finding out more out this.

Chronic pancreatitis refers to a continuing, smoldering, low-grade inflammation of the pancreas. Symptoms such as vomiting and discomfort after eating may occur intermittently, sometimes accompanied by depression, loss of appetite, and weight loss. In some cases, signs may be as subtle and nonspecific as a dog not wanting to play normally, being a picky eater, or skipping a meal from time to time. Chronic pancreatitis may periodically flare up, resulting in acute pancreatitis.

Barney was diagnosed with pancreatitis a year and a half ago, when his back first went out. He was in so much pain and we couldn't figure out why, so they tested for everything under the sun and this is what they found. I do think he may have chronic pancreatitis, his levels never completely went down after the last bout, clinically he resolved, but the lab work didn't and after a few months we stopped following them, there isn't much you can do other than feed a low fat diet and we were doing that as well as treating his cushings. He has been asymptomatic as far as we can tell until now. Hard to say with him, even with acute pancreatitis, Barney still eats and drinks, he has never vomited, not even once. The only symptom I see is mushy stool.

A wise person once said, I'd rather have a bottle infrontomy than a frontal lobototomy
A wise person indeed! Dang Lori, maybe we should have drank! Well there's always next time :D Just think of the interesting pics we could post here!

Thanks for the support guys, sometimes I can be an absolute nut when it comes to my baby boy.

Well I just got in from work and it is time for bed!

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-25-2009, 04:38 PM

Hi Cheryl,

So are you thinking of trying a limited ingredient diet for Barney that would cover his IBD and pancreatitis? Sounds like his mushy poo ceased since he's started his temporary rice/cottage cheese diet.

Would be interesting to have labs done again down the line to see if his current food has made a difference in those numbers.

Louise

Wylie's Mom

07-27-2009, 07:04 PM

Hi Cheryl,

I'm curious... what were Barney's lipase & amylase levels?

-Susy

Barney's Mom

07-27-2009, 07:56 PM

Amylase was 1440
Lipase 1800

The cottage cheese and rice diet was a bust. he had one normal poop and then he started with REALLY mushy poop. We thought it was just the change in diet so we gave it some time, but as of this morning it hadn't improved so we stopped the cottage cheese. Funny thing is that everything I read says that cottage cheese is great for dogs with diarrhea. :rolleyes:

We needs a low fat, bland, high quality protein, so we are trying white fish and rice now. He still has a great appetite. I am really nervous about switching his diet, but the cottage cheese wasn't for him.

gpgscott

07-27-2009, 08:01 PM

Oh Man, Cheryl,

Who did you and Barney get on the wrong side of:eek:

I am so sorry it is one issue after the other and hope the fish and rice does the trick.

Scott

Harley PoMMom

07-27-2009, 08:19 PM

Oh Cheryl,

So sorry too, I wish there was more I could do for you both. I am hoping also that the fish and rice work for Barney and you receive firm poops. :D

How is he doing otherwise?

Hugs.
Lori

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-28-2009, 01:55 AM

The cottage cheese and rice diet was a bust. he had one normal poop and then he started with REALLY mushy poop. We thought it was just the change in diet so we gave it some time, but as of this morning it hadn't improved so we stopped the cottage cheese.

Cheryl,

Sorry to read that the cottage cheese/rice diet backfired - literally! Hope the fish and rice works out better for Barney. Rice is supposed to be easy on the tummy too but for whatever reason the Munch just couldn't tolerate it so we had to switch to potato. You just never know with these furkids.

Louise

Spiceysmum

07-28-2009, 04:06 AM

Hi Cheryl,

Sorry to hear about Barney's problems. We are having a similar problem with our other dog, Brin. After having diarrhea for 7 weeks a blood test showed he is very low on vitamin B12 and has been diagnosed with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth and that he is likely to get pancreatitis in the future. We did try antibiotics before but they didn't work and he has been on a diet of chicken and rice or scrambled egg and rice for 3 weeks to no avail. Last Friday he started on a 12 week course of B12 injections and a months course of antibiotics along with a change of food to Royal Canin Veterinary Sensitivity Control (Blue Whiting and Tapioca!). Well, I don't know which one is working, or it might be a combination of all 3, but his diarrhea stopped after 2 days. He was already on a hypoallergenic diet before but this one seems to have made all the difference, don't know if you can get it over there. I hope this continues to work as we were told that if it isn't a bacteria it is likely to be microscopic tumours in his intestines that are depleting his body of B12. As Barney has had blood tests to diagnose the pancreatitis it would have picked up if he was short of B12 so that can't be a problem but I thought you might be able to try the food. Brin too has a great appetite and never lost it even though he must have been feeling rough. Good Luck, I know it is all trial and error!

Linda and Spicey

Truffa's Mom

07-28-2009, 04:23 AM

Ouch, Ouch, Ouch....for mommy and for Barney, that mushy situation is really mushy!!!! Let's hope the rice and fish works better for our Barney.

Could be that Barney is lactose intolerant? Or his pancreas and digestive system is still weak from the pancreatitis, and food needs to be given more slowly ?. When Truffa had her pancreatitis I remember how her whole body was shaking and her legs trembling for the acute pain, but she wanted to eat, and I had to tie up my hands and close my eyes trying not to feed her for 3 days.... yeah I got the evil eye :eek:.

Let's hope the fish-rice does the trick. Also if the diarrhea continues, you'll have to check for dehydration or electrolytes imbalance.

Please get well Barney, and keep kissing your mom and dad.

PS: Tapioca sounds good too!!!

Barney's Mom

07-28-2009, 07:23 PM

Barney had two small feedings of the fish and rice yesterday and started vomiting this morning. It was just a mouthful of white frothy mucus. I just got back from the vets. The vet feels that the cottage cheese didn't agree with Barney and to keep him on water only tonight. (He hasn't eaten since last night) Then tommorow start him on The Hills prescription ID again, but very very slowly. Just 2 tablespoons every 4 hours. Increase over 3 to 5 days.
He also put him on Flagyl, and Endosorb to sooth the intestines. BArney has a history of IBD, and would flares so easily if we vary his diet, and that is probably what is happening now. He always responded nicely to Flagyl within a day so I am hopeful. His pancreas didn't seem painful at all to the vet, so there is no way to know for certain, but I don't think it is his pancreatitis worsening.

Marcela, I think he was fed too much too fast from the beginning. We will definitely take it slow this time.

Linda, sorry you are having such a hard time with Brin. Yes, it does seem to be trial and error! What antibiotic is he on?

Squirt's Mom

07-28-2009, 07:32 PM

My word, Cheryl!

I have been keeping up and it just seems like recently ya'll are getting your plates loaded! :eek:

Bless his heart! It seems to me vomiting would hurt his back, plus that always scares me anyway. I sure hope the new diet helps and the slower feeding approach is a good idea. Smaller, more frequent meals may help, too.

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Wylie's Mom

07-28-2009, 07:33 PM

I'm sorry Cheryl... I hope he does well on the ID.

-Susy

Harley PoMMom

07-28-2009, 07:43 PM

OMGoodness Cheryl,

You tell Barney that Auntie Lori says he has to stop scaring his mommy like this, and me. :eek::)

If the Flagyl worked before then I'm sure it will this time too. Please let us know how he is doing. Poor baby.

Hugs to you and Barney.
Lori

Barney's Mom

07-28-2009, 07:48 PM

Thanks guys :)

Hopefully this does the trick for him. His mommy has grown weary from the fight. I can only imagine how he feels :(

Truffa's Mom

07-28-2009, 08:29 PM

OOOps.... I wasn't expecting this....sorry.....I feel nauseated just imagining how he might feel.
Lets hope the Flagyl does work again. It seems to me that if the vomit was "white" (at least the cleaning part would be easier), then the pancreas wasn't the cause, usually it is that yellowish bile color that is almost impossible to get rid off your fabrics and carpet....IMO.

Barney please get well baby, we have candles for your back, your pancreatitis, your IBD, your mushy fluids (both ends), so...and your mommy!!!

Healing energy ASAP!!!

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-28-2009, 09:40 PM

Cheryl,

Gosh, I'm so sorry to read that the fish/rice diet was a disaster also. Poor Barney. Hope slowly starting him back on ID will allow him to get some nourishment that doesn't cause him a problem. The Flagyl has worked well and quickly for Munch also. Hope it soothes Barney's tummy.

Louise

Spiceysmum

07-29-2009, 04:00 AM

Hi Cheryl,

Brin is on Oxytetracycline now. I can't remember the antibiotic he took a few weeks ago but they didn't work. I asked the vet about probiotics if the antibiotics didn't work and he said we could try them after the antibiotics but, touch wood, he is still doing well. He also discussed biopsy but he had a bad reaction to his last aneasthetic and he also said there was a risk of the bacteria spreading so I decided to leave that for now. Hope the Flagyl works wonders!

Linda and Spicey

AlisonandMia

07-29-2009, 04:45 AM

Sue's Zoe has SIBO (and a history of pancreatitis) and is now on Tylan which has proved to be a miracle drug for her.

Here's a link to their thread: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551

There is more info about this on her old cc.net thread which I believe Sue has a copy of.

Alison

Here's some info on SIBO - http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&PID=2580

and here too: http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#sibo

gpgscott

07-29-2009, 11:12 AM

Cheryl,

That really stinks, I wish I could offer advice but all I can do is say I am thinking about you all and hoping for relief soon.

Scott

Barney's Mom

07-29-2009, 11:22 AM

We started his diet this morning, he got his two tablespoons of food. He was looking at me like "what the heck?"
So far so good, although it will take a day or two to know how he is tolerating this.
No more vomiting though, and no stools.

My poor baby.
Alison Tylan seems very promising! If I don't have any resolution with the flagyl I will bring it up to the vet.

Cheryl

MiniSchnauzerMom

07-31-2009, 03:49 PM

So far so good, although it will take a day or two to know how he is tolerating this.

No more vomiting though, and no stools.
Cheryl

It's been a couple of days now.....Barney update, please. :D

Louise

Harley PoMMom

07-31-2009, 03:56 PM

Yea, Auntie Lori wants to know too. :D

Truffa's Mom

07-31-2009, 04:18 PM

Sniff, Sniff, Sniff..... mmmmm whats'up? Hope Barney is better

Squirt's Mom

07-31-2009, 05:13 PM

Joining the requests for info on Barney!

Wylie's Mom

07-31-2009, 06:22 PM

Me, too:D!
-Susy

forscooter

07-31-2009, 10:16 PM

Me four!

You Know Who:cool:

Barney's Mom

08-02-2009, 12:32 AM

Hey! I think Barney is doing well.....He stopped vomiting that very same day and is in no danger of becoming dehydrated, drinking well. We started him back on the Hill's ID diet 2 tablespoons every 4 hours, we are up to 4 tablespoons every 4 hours. He has only had three stools in the last 4 days, but they are soft, mostly formed, but still very loose.

But today....
I get to work and I get a call from John. It seems Barney's idiot mother didn't fasten the crate door. When John came in from work Barney was at the garage door waiting for him with a toy in his mouth. So much for his strict crate rest. He seems fine, but my biggest concern is that we had Beth's food out in the kitchen. Not sure how much was in the bowl, but I can guarantee he helped himself. John just called and said he is still acting just fine. Hoping we escaped an ill fate from this, and my horrible luck as of late is improving. On my way to work tonight I backed out of my coworker's driveway and into her neighbor's car. :(

Barney and Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

08-02-2009, 01:49 AM

Glad to hear Barney is doing so well and tolerating his food.

When John came in from work Barney was at the garage door waiting for him with a toy in his mouth. I can just see Barney, and I know he looked so adorable with that toy hanging out of his mouth!

we had Beth's food out in the kitchen. Not sure how much was in the bowl, but I can guarantee he helped himself. No way, not Barney, he's an angel, I've seen his halo!

On my way to work tonight I backed out of my coworker's driveway and into her neighbor's car. Oh Cheryl, you are probably feeling totally frazzled by now...I wish I was an autobody mechanic instead of a plumber and then I could help you.

Love and hugs.
Lori

Barney's Mom

08-02-2009, 05:48 PM

Well so far so good. It seems his little dietary indiscretion didn't cause any harm. He had a completely normally formed stool, still a bit orange tinged but much better. Actually it is the best poop he has had since his surgery.

John thinks Barney may have gotten up and out of the crate when he heard the car pull in when John got home. There was still a bit of food in the bowl, and as hungry as Barney is John is convinced that there wouldn't have been anything left in that bowl if he would have had time to get to it.

Harley PoMMom

08-02-2009, 06:13 PM

YAAAA! We're getting better poop. :):D:):D

John thinks Barney may have gotten up and out of the crate when he heard the car pull in when John got home. There was still a bit of food in the bowl, and as hungry as Barney is John is convinced that there wouldn't have been anything left in that bowl if he would have had time to get to it. See I told ya, Barney is an absolute angel. :)

Love and hugs.
Lori

Barney's Mom

08-02-2009, 06:16 PM

YAAAA! We're getting better poop. :):D:):D

See I told ya, Barney is an absolute angel. :)

Love and hugs.
Lori

:rolleyes: LOL!

Truffa's Mom

08-03-2009, 12:52 AM

Yey the food is working and the final product is improving!!!

OOOps sorry about your incident with your neighbor's cars, too many close observation to the poop may cause

It ....idiot mother didn't fasten the crate door,
sorry but it's a hazard occupation of being a good and exhausted mom!!! So many fronts to cover at the same time.

Big kisses to our handsome Barney

Barney's Mom

08-03-2009, 09:27 PM

All is still well here :-)
Barn Barn is up to 1/3 of a can of food 4 times daily and he is tolerating it well. He pooped again, nice and firm still slightly orange tinted, but much less orangey than it has been. He is still walking well, and the slight limp he had is completely gone now, although he still is a bit weak in the hind legs, the right leg seems to be a bit weaker than the left. I think a lot of this may be deconditioning from the crate rest. OH and we are down to 30 days of crate rest left. Tomorrow makes one month since his surgery so we have another month to go.
He has settled into a routine about eating drinking and going potty at about the same times every day and I think that helps us all. He has been sooo good. He has only whined a handful of times to get out of the crate and I think he's feeling pretty good now.

And the guy who's car I hit let me pay him out of pocket, it was a very minor dent and I didn't mess up the paint. Really nice guy.
It's amazing how things can turn around in a couple of days. Breathing much easier here. :D

Prayers that I didn't just jinx us!

Barney and Cheryl

Harley PoMMom

08-03-2009, 10:47 PM

Ok, I have to know...what's with the orangey poop? Is his food an orangish color?

Tomorrow a month already..whew, time flys...sure am glad Barney's eating and tolerating his food well.

Prayer too for no jinxing. :eek::D

Love and hugs.
Lori

Truffa's Mom

08-04-2009, 12:04 AM

Barney you are an ANGEL!!!!!

gpgscott

08-04-2009, 06:50 PM

Wishing continued 'good' poops:eek:

Quack!

Barney's Mom

08-11-2009, 12:27 PM

Paws crossed as I say this, but I think our stomach issues are over. No vomiting or diarrhea, appetite is fantastic, and he is happy, bright eyed, and alert, not at all mopey. I get his levels rechecked next week.
I got the paw pads for Barney. They work amazingly well. He doesn't even know that they are there. I only use one sticky per back paw, on his big middle pad and that seems to be plenty. I haven't been bringing him out of the crate because he comes out all wild and crazy and was slipping and sliding everywhere. It has been 5 weeks since his surgery and I am going to start letting him out just while we are there to watch him closely. I may have started something however, usually he comes in from pottying and goes right into the crate, this morning he came in and went in to the kitchen to lie on the cool tile.
Worse yet, I turned my back for a minute and he ran upstairs in to the bedroom to wake up daddy :)
No harm done, and I think it did them both some good. I will block the stairs off when I let him out!

forscooter

08-11-2009, 07:54 PM

So happy to hear a good report on Barney!!! :D:D:D

Drinks all around!

Love and hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Harley PoMMom

08-20-2009, 09:03 AM

How is Auntie Lori's little angel Barney doing?

I get his levels rechecked next week.Any results back for these yet?

Love and hugs.
Lori

frijole

08-20-2009, 09:13 AM

Barney's Mom

08-20-2009, 09:01 PM

Hey guys! Barney is still doing well. We are down to 11 days of crate rest! Hard to believe that he has been jailed for almost two months. He seems to feel well, and he will have his labs repeated on Monday. It is so hard find a time when the vet, John and I are all available and we both need to go so John can carry him in and out of the car (he still isn't allowed to jump in and out of the car) and I can ask questions :)
I think he is tired of his prescription dog food. He ate half of his norm this morning, and snubbed it this afternoon, yet he is mooching when he is out of the crate and keeps running to Beth's dog food container standing next to it and barking at me :rolleyes: He is too smart for his own good.
I did add a tiny tiny sliver of very lean beef to his food all chopped up and he gobbled it down, so I don't think it is stomach issues.
The paw pads are really working out. I have been letting him out for a couple hours a day when I am near him and I only put one section of a paw pad on each back paw and he is getting around really well, no slipping at all and he gets up with ease. He limped once two weeks after surgery the day we took him to the vet and that was over almost as soon as it started, and he hasn't limped at all since. He is moving much faster than he has in years.
The only problem with the paw pads are the cost. The pads only last 2 or 3 days and then they start to fall off. I was online trying to find a cheaper place to buy the paw pads and I found and adhesive traction spray that show dogs use when they perform on slippery floors.. A website for dachscunds with disc disease and leg weakness raves about this product, so I am ordering it. I will let you know how it goes.

Show Foot Anti-Slip Spray
$12.95

If your pet's feet slip on hard surfaces, Show Foot may be just what you need. Used in show circles to prevent dogs from slipping while in the ring, this non-irritating spray gives your dog or cat extra traction when walking on such surfaces as hardwood, tile, or concrete. The natural resin formula sprays on fast and dries quickly, which you know is important if you've ever tried to put anything on your pet's paws!

Perfect for pets who are: suffering from degenerative myelopathy or other neuro-degenerative diseases, arthritis, disk disease, such as IVDD; recovering from injury or surgery; weak in the rear limbs.

MiniSchnauzerMom

08-20-2009, 09:09 PM

Glad to hear Barney is doing so well. You're almost :D frrreeeeeee :D Barnster!!!

Louise

Harley PoMMom

08-20-2009, 10:25 PM

I am glad, too, that Barney is doing so well.

I think he is tired of his prescription dog food. Now what? Do you change his prescription food with another type, or will he eventually eat it when he is hungry?

he is mooching when he is out of the crate and keeps running to Beth's dog food container standing next to it and barking at me I can see him doing this, I bet this is so funny...not at that present time.;)

Give Barney a hug from his Auntie Lori, and Beth too.

Love and hugs.
Lori

Wylie's Mom

08-21-2009, 08:11 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Do you think Barney could have boiled chicken with overcooked rice instead of the ID? Wylie was on ID after his gall bladder attack, but I think I had substituted it at times with the chicken & rice (without even thinking to ask the vet if it was ok:o).

Down to 10 Days:D:D!

-Susy

forscooter

08-21-2009, 10:55 PM

Counting up for Sophie and down for Barney!!!

Glad to hear he is doing so well....of course, never a doubt with the parents he has!!!

Big healing hugs!!!!!!
Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

gpgscott

08-23-2009, 08:16 PM

Hi Cheryl,

All sounds pretty good and on the diet thing Moria does it to me all the time, she acts like she is not interested but just you get something out of the fridge to nosh on and guess where she is:D

I will be very intersted and I know others will be as well to hear about the outcome with the spray.

Scott

Harley PoMMom

08-23-2009, 09:12 PM

Wishing you luck for tomorrow for "test day," I am sure Barney will pass with flying colors.

8 days of jail left for the Barn. :eek::D

Love and hugs.
Lori

Barney's Mom

08-24-2009, 08:12 AM

I swear I am never giving a good report ever again! Every time I say how wonderful Barney is doing, we take two steps back!
John called me at work early Sunday morning to tell me that Barney had vomited. Sunday morning I get home and he is happy and perky and mooching.......I feed him and an hour later he is vomited up every thing he ate.
Yesterday I slept on the couch down here with him. No more vomiting but I can tell he just doesn't feel well. I didn't feed him for the rest of yesterday to give his belly a rest. He is drinking and keeping it down and we see the vet in a couple of hours.

Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers :)

Cheryl

Wylie's Mom

08-24-2009, 10:18 AM

I didn't feed him for the rest of yesterday to give his belly a rest.

That's a good mom;)! (I often forget to do that:o)

I hope the vet visit goes well and Barney feels better soon.

-Susy

Barney's Mom

08-24-2009, 12:48 PM

We are back from the vet. He's well hydrated and he hasn't vomited since yesterday morning. He's drinking water fine and he's half starved. I just fed him and so far so good.
We did a host of blood work and his urine was fine, so no UTI.
I made a list of all the things I wanted to look for to hopefully find out what is causing his pancreatitis.
Last week I ran out of Lysodren. I called the vet to have them call in a script and his vet was off that week and since Dr Rick had never actually prescribed it to me they (the IMS gave me tons a year and a half ago) they weren't able to have another vet prescribe. I wasn't happy, but at the time I didn't think it was too big a deal because for the most part his cushing's is asymptomatic, but now I am wondering if it is the increased cortisol that is irritating his pancreas. He had missed his dose on Mon and Wed, and Thursday he snubbed his food. He missed a third dose on Fri and then on Saturday he is vomiting.
I may have caused this relapse and the guilt is eating me alive :(
Now my dilemma: You never give a sick dog lysodren. But what about in this instance? What if it is the high cortisol that is causing the pancreatitis? They called the script into my pharmacy. I completely forgot to ask Dr Rick.

gpgscott

08-24-2009, 04:50 PM

Wow,

I really have no advice for you Cheryl.

I do think that the gastro issue is not related. Don't try to pin be down it is just a gut thing based on your history.

I am going to suggest you start a program of pro-biotics, which can be plain yogurt, buttermilk, acidopholis tabs, anything to make his gastro tract active.

And should he not he be in a uniform or something so the rest of us can recognize him as an inmate?:D

Harley PoMMom

08-24-2009, 05:39 PM

Cheryl,

I may have caused this relapse and the guilt is eating me alive We will have none of that here, Honey, the only thing you are guilty of is loving Barney and where is the guilt in that?

Harley's vet did tell me to give him yogurt for his gut, and it does seem to help with those "gurgley" sounds I was hearing. I also been feeding him white rice boiled in water until it is a mush, with boiled chicken. I am so sorry Barney is having some issues and I hope he feels better soon.

Does Barney have a fever?

As far as giving Barney Lysodren, I just don't know, I'm too new at this. I'm sure the "others" that are more knowledgeable will share their opinions.

Please let us know how things are going.

Love and hugs.
Lori

Squirt's Mom

08-24-2009, 06:15 PM

I may have caused this relapse and the guilt is eating me alive

Nope, can't have this...besides, I am the Queen of Self-flagellation and I don't share well. :p

Does uncontrolled cortisol cause pancreatitis? hummmmm...this is something I think I should know but the old brain is not supplying the answer. So I will go do some looking and let you know what I find.

As for the Lyso while he is sick....I would say no. For one main reason - if he continues to have problems it would be more difficult to say what was causing it. The flip side is, if he misses too many doses, you may have to reload, or mini load, him once he is well.

Hang in there, Cheryl. You are a wonderful mom and have done not one thing wrong. So you just toss that guilt out the window and forget about it, you hear? You don't deserve it, so you can't have it. :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Wylie's Mom

08-24-2009, 06:19 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Did you get a chance to read that link I posted earlier?
http://www.dogaware.com/wdjpancreatitis.html

It does have a section on "Causes of pancreatitis"... of couse, Cushing's is listed as a condition that predisposes them, but you might find other things that are possibilites.

Also, I don't know how common this is, but just in case you happen to be giving Barney any flaxseed oil, Dr. O's revised treatment sheet says, "the flax oil can exacerbate pancreatitis in dogs (triglyceride levels may increase)". I didn't want to take any chances, so I transitioned Wylie back to fish oil (fish oil is better for his joints, anyway).

I often seem to be wrong when I try to guess where Wylie's cortisol levels are at, there are just too many other factors sometimes, so I wouldn't try to guess Barney's levels.

-Susy

Squirt's Mom

08-24-2009, 07:07 PM

Hi Cheryl,

So far the only thing I have seen that might indicate cortisol could cause pancreatitis is the following:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&PID=18128&O=Generic

For canine acute pancreatitis, the etiology is varied and remains often unclear. Risk factors are obesity, fatty meals, hyperlipidemia (e.g., in miniature schnauzers), trauma, ischemia, severe intestinal diseases, systemic infections (e.g., babesiosis), endocrine disorders (e.g., hyperadrenocorticism, diabetes mellitus), certain toxins (e.g., scorpion venom, zinc), and drugs such as azathioprine, l-asparaginase, chlorpromazine, glucantime, tetracycline, and hydrochlorothiazide. The role of glucocorticoids as etiologic factor has been debated. It has been reported, that clinically suspected acute pancreatitis can be actually a sign of acute deterioration of chronic pancreatitis (1-4).

The etiology of chronic pancreatitis is less understood. Genetic predisposition, immune mediated processes or defect healing after an acute pancreatitis are seen as possible causes.

Cortisol is a glucocorticoid. Here are the links I used when Squirty had her bout with it:

Canine Pancreatitis

Mar Vista*
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_pancreatitis.html

Texas A&M – Gastrointestinal Laboratories
http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/gilab/research/Pancreatitis.shtml

University of Georgia
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/west/index.php

Veterinary Partner
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2214&S=1&SourceID=42

World Small Animal Veterinary Association
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&PID=18128&O=Generic

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2008&PID=23846&O=Generic

IDEXX Laboratories
http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/laboratory/speccpl/diagnosticupdate2.jsp

Judith Stock (article appeared in Tufts University Your Dog)
http://www.judithstock.com/Speaking_of_Animals/Pancreatitis_in_Dogs/pancreatitis_in_dogs.html

VetCentric
https://www.vetcentric.com/reference/encycEntry.cfm?ENTRY=23&COLLECTION=EncycIllness&MODE=full

Swift Water Farms
http://www.swiftwaterfarms.com/swiftwater/p21Pancreatitis.htm

VetCentric you will need to register for to see the info but it is free...or was. I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything else connecting cortisol and pancreatitis. One thing I did find interesting was that some chemotherapy meds can be a cause, but Lyso was not listed as one of them.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

gpgscott

08-24-2009, 07:14 PM

Here are the links I used when Squirty had her bout with it:

Canine PancreatitisHugs,
Leslie and the girls

Yes Leslie, but we also know that Squirt had a spleanic issue at that time, right?, Sorry but can you expand just a bit, I think you are on to someting
:confused:

I think what this post points out is that you need to keep looking:)

forscooter

08-24-2009, 07:14 PM

Cheryl,

I had to chime in here. Barney has been well-controlled for a while now. High cortisol levels do indeed cause damage but only after a lengthy period of time. I don't think this is the cause of the pancreatitis at this time. Sorry for the typing, the phone is ringing and all sorts of things...but please don't feel guilty!!!

Ah, just the doc checking on me...she can wait. Anyway, I really don't think you would see something happen like that so quickly. Now it could just be he is more sensitive to the pancreatitis bc of the Cushing's in general....more pre-disposed...but I don't think a few missed doses are to blame.

I can't remember but I am assuming the diagnosis of pancreatitis was made based upon testing. Could Barney also have a more IBD-like thing going on? Or do you know for sure that this most recent flare-up is indeed coming from the pancreas?

Hang in there...you are a wonderful mommy!!!!
Love and hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Harley PoMMom

08-24-2009, 07:36 PM

Cheryl,

I think you were onto something here with the IBD. Could you find anything more on that?

Thanks so much Susy for the article! Quite a few things of interest to me in there.

This I have found in other references, but I can't find a lot on it, at least not in depth. Barney has had IBD since he was a puppy. They think the IBD is caused from food allergies. I am really interested in finding out more out this.

Pancreatitis has been associated with immune-mediated diseases, which may include IBD, though the cause-and-effect relationship is not understood.

Barney was diagnosed with pancreatitis a year and a half ago, when his back first went out. He was in so much pain and we couldn't figure out why, so they tested for everything under the sun and this is what they found. I do think he may have chronic pancreatitis, his levels never completely went down after the last bout, clinically he resolved, but the lab work didn't and after a few months we stopped following them, there isn't much you can do other than feed a low fat diet and we were doing that as well as treating his cushings. He has been asymptomatic as far as we can tell until now. Hard to say with him, even with acute pancreatitis, Barney still eats and drinks, he has never vomited, not even once. The only symptom I see is mushy stool.

Thanks for the support guys, sometimes I can be an absolute nut when it comes to my baby boy.

Love and hugs.
Lori

Barney's Mom

08-24-2009, 08:02 PM

:)
You guys always make me feel better. And the guilt has abated, Barney gets better medical care than I do. I will watch more closely for the refills however.
Susy, hell I not only read it, I practically can recite it. That article and about 50 others. Every thing is so generic related to cushings. Nothing I read tells me why. I tried to pin the neurologist down on the pathophysiology the increased incidence of pancreatitis in cush pups and he thought the increased cortisol.

I want to respond in more detail, especially to the comments, and I so thank you for the links. John is taking me to the movies and I will be back in a couple of hours.

I love you guys, and I couldn't be more grateful to all of you!

Cheryl

Wylie's Mom

08-24-2009, 08:39 PM

:)
You guys always make me feel better. And the guilt has abated, ....

Susy, hell I not only read it, I practically can recite it.

I'm glad you feel better:).

... you're better than me - I read & re-read & re-read... I'm no where near reciting:o

I hope you enjoy the movie! You deserve a break;).

-Susy

Squirt's Mom

08-24-2009, 09:30 PM

Hey Cheryl,

Sure hope you are out enjoying an evening with John!

Everything I have read says the same thing about cortisol and pancreatitis being connected....it's just not clear if cortisol does cause the condition but it is clear that having Cushing's does predispose them to pancreatitis. Frustrating...there does seem to be a connection but nothing definitive I could find. The cortisol does rise when one experiences a pancreatic attack, that is sure; but whether high levels can cause it, ???? :confused:

I did find this that gives some good info on causes in an outline form...along with just about everything else related to pancreatitis in both cats and dogs! They give a longer list of meds that can precipitate an attack, too. Some were quite surprising like Tagamet which Squirt takes from time to time and I take daily! :eek:

http://talkoftheinternet.com/ccvma/pancreatitis.pdf

Squirt's bout was acute and the result of being handled during her surgery to remove the splenic tumor and part of her spleen. Her surgeon told me the organ is just super sensitive and gets angry very easily.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Harley PoMMom

08-24-2009, 10:31 PM

What else I thought that was intersting in that article, Leslie:

Predisposing causes of pancreatitis.

5. Toxic
a. Drugs that cause pancreatitis in people

vi. Hormones - estrogens

Since estradiol is an " estrogen." :eek: Alot of our pups have high levels of estradiol. I just wonder if this could be something that inflames the pancreas too??

Love and hugs.
Lori

Barney's Mom

08-25-2009, 07:55 PM

Barney's labs came back in, Amylase, Lipase, and spec cPL are all elevated, so it is definitely his pancreas. The vet left a message last night and I slept right through it. He didn't leave the lab values but he is going to call me tonight. I have been doing a lot of reading on line and on a yahoo message board for dog pancreatitis. It was reassuring to see dogs who fight this for months recover. Funny thing is ........MANY of the dogs also have IBD like Barney. It's almost the rule instead of the exception. Some give Tylan like Sue does to Chloe, and find the right diet.

He did well last night, hungry and barking, and this morning he is mopey and vomiting. Thankfully he is tolerating water, and he only vomited once but he is refusing food.

I am definitely taking him off the ID diet. It is doing nothing for him. Boiled and over cooked the heck out of some mushy rice and boiled some chicken breast and I will start him very very slowly.

Cheryl

Squirt's Mom

08-25-2009, 08:24 PM

Hi Cheryl,

Did the vet not want him hospitalized? Usually they will put the pup on IVs so the pancreas isn't triggered by food/water in the digestive system. Food is what triggers the pancreatic enzymes, and the enzymes are what is causing the problem so you do not want any more in his system right now. If he isn't going to be hospitalized, then you will need to withhold food for 3-5 days to give his system time to recover. They usually want them on an antibiotic as well as it is not uncommon for them to become septic as a result of the enzyme damage. If I were you, I would hold off on feeding him anything until you have a chance to talk with the vet about this. I am a bit concerned at the lack of action, but I am a major worry wart! :o;)

I was just coming to share with you an answer I got just now from Ask A Vet on the "just answers" web site. So here goes...hope this turns out sensible!

(My original question)
Do high cortisol levels cause pancreatitis in the canine?

Optional Information:
Type of Animal: Canine
Gender: female/spayed
Age: 11

Already Tried:
I know that high cortisol levels predispose a dog to pancreatitis - ie such as pups with hyperadrenocortism. But I cannot find any information that says the cortisol hormone itself will CAUSE pancreatitis if the level get too high. Can you help me with this?

Thanks so much for your time,
Leslie and Squirt

(Dr. W's first response)
Hello, thanks for submitting your question to Just Ansswer

Yes, excess cortisol in the body, either due to too much production by the adrenal glands or by giving too much corticosteroid medication can affect the pancreas in dogs. It can also affect the liver, kidneys, skin and muscle.

Hope this helps
Doctor W

(My reply to Dr. W)
So it is feasible then that a pup who has been on Lysodren but has had to stop it for a while due to surgery, could develope pancreatitis as a result of losing control of the cortisol, correct?

(Dr. W's reply)
Problems due to excess cortisol is due to long term accumulated effects of the hormone and the effects are not always perfectly temporal. This means that no one can say that because cortisol may have stayed elevated due to dicontinuation of Lysodren was the reason for the pancreatitis or not. Unfortunately, what appears to be logical is not always the truth in medicine. That's just the way it is.

I hope this helps.
Doctor W

******
Dr. W's credentials:

Location: Jefferson, Massachusetts
Most Advanced Degree: DVM
School: Kansas State University

Professional Licenses: Massachusetts, Kansas, Virginia
Issuing License Agency: Board of Registration in Veterinary Medicine
State License Issued: MA, KS, VA
Certifications, Awards, Patents, Publications & Other Education: 30 years experience practicing small animal medicine and surgery. Special interest in dentistry, surgery and dermatology and pain management. Director of Abbott Animal Hospital, a 7 doctor practice in Worcester, MA, from 1980 until 2007. Previous Vice President of Massachusetts Veterinary Medical Association and Regional Coordinator for the American Animal Hospital Association.
I am a strong proponent of the human companion animal bond and believe that relief of animal pain and suffering by educating the pet's owner to be the most important function of a small animal veterinarian.

Experience: 30 years practicing small animal medicine and surgery

*****
<<<Information obtained from http://www.justanswer.com/ and posted with permission.>>>

Hope this helps some! And do let us know what the vet says!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

sunimist

08-25-2009, 09:17 PM

Hi Cheryl,

When Misty had her acute pancreatitis attack, she was a very sick baby and admitted to the hospital for IV treatment. She did overcome it, but the vet said if I saw symptoms again to not give anything by mouth for at least 24 hours. Then at that time if she seemed to be responding (like no vomiting) to give her tiny (like a half teaspoon) portions of boiled chicken and rice 5 to 6 times a day for two days. Then if all was going well I could increase the chicken and rice for a couple more days. After that, I could start introducing a little kibble mixed with the rice and chicken for another 2 or 3 days. She said it was absolutely necessary to rest the pancreas during bouts of pancreatitis, and we did stave off a couple attacks later by following her directions.

This is just my experience and may not be at all helpful for Barney.

Take care and lots of ((hugs))

Shelba and Suni