New here - Sweet LillyMae has passed

[LillyMae]

Hi, LillyMae & I are new here & my LillyMae was just diagnosed 2 wks ago with Cushings. I am wondering if anyone else has their baby on Melatonin & Flaxseed & is it working ? How long before you noticed a diff ? and what about High Blood Pressure, do any of your babies have it ? I am so stressed over this & it's making me crazy. LillyMae is a rescue who is around 11 yrs & she was skin & bones with rotten teeth & a belly full of mamry tumors & not speyed when she came to me 2 1/2 yrs ago, oh and her back was out & she could not walk & layed in her bed & shook & cried. After her dental, spay & tumor removal & several trips to the Chiropractor, she gained wt & was feeling like a new woman. In Jan I found more tumors so had All of her boobies removed. Lilly recovered from the surgery but Never stopped shaking. After several trips to the vet we checked for the cushings & there it was:( I'm so angry about this as Lilly has been poo'd on her whole life & just when things start looking up for her she now has this ugly thing. We could use some guidence as to what works & what's not so successful.
Thank you in advance, Miss LillyMae Weiner.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hello Miss Lilly Mae, and welcome :)

I am so sorry for what you have gone thru during your life but am so happy you have found us and a very nice forever home to be loved and taken care of. :) There are many here that are using the Melatonin & Flaxseed for Atypical cushings treatment. I am sure they will be along to welcome you and share their knowledge and experiences.

Can you tell us more about what led the vet to a diagnosis of Cushing's? What test were performed? UC/CR, ACTH stim test or a LDDS ? Maybe mama can post the results of the testing?

Hope to hear more about you soon. :)

[littleone1]

Corky and I also want to welcome the both of you.

I'm so sorry that LillyMae has been through so much in her life. I'm so glad that she's found such a good forever home.

As John said, it would really help us to know what tests were done, along with the tests results and the type of cushings that was diagnosed.

The only treatment I have used with Corky is Trilostane, as he has an adrenal tumor. His treatment has been very successful for 20 months.

We look forward to hearing more about LillyMae.

Terri

[frijole]

You mentioned there are tumors - did they say what kind? Are they on the adrenal gland? Please share all the symptoms your dog currently has. Do they eat a ton or intermittently? Pot belly? Water consumption high? Tell me more about the shakes. Sorry for all the questions but it helps us.

Also what tests were done to diagnose the cushing's?

Thanks! Hang in there. Kim

[LillyMae]

When Lilly 1st came to me she was in bad shape & had $$$ worth of vet care. I noticed that she was drinking lots of water, as much as my wolfhound mix so in the 1st 3 months she had her liver & kidneys checked 3 times + checked for diabetes & all was clear. Over time she would ocasionally loose hair on her ears but was not concerned as daschunds have a tenancy for that. In Jan I found more tumors in her mammarys & took her to the vet ASAP & she was schedualed for surgery 2 days later. Before surgery her blood work showed her Cholesterol & liver slightly off but for her age we were not too concerned. After surgery she came home shaking which was expected since she had full removal of all her mammarys & had stitches from her arm pits to her crotch. She actually bounced back quit well but the shaking never stopped & after about 6 wks she started to appear as though she had vestibular syndrome so back she went to the vet, had a full exam & could find no reason for the shaking. After a full round of antibiotics her shaking was still just as bad so we made several trips to the Chiro thinking maybe her back again & she was also on pain meds . After all of this she is still shaking so back to the vet we go, oh but while she was having her adjustments I noticed her ears loosing hair again then the bridge of her nose then her tail so I put togather the hair loss & the Chloesterol & liver results of her blood work & the lightbulb finaly came on OMG I think my Mae has cushings so off to the vet again for a blood draw. I swear I have never waited soooo long for blood results in my life as it was only a week but felt like a yr, then the call came and it was cushings. I don't know what test was done but she has an appt at 5:20 this evening to have her blood pressure checked as now I believe she has high blood pressure. I will ask what test was done when we go this evening. Does anyone know of anything more natural I can give her then blood pressure meds ? and has anyone used the Cushex Drops ? And Thank You for responding so fast.
Debbie & LillyMae weiner

[LillyMae]

Ok, I just called my vet & talked to the tech & she was no help as her answer was that she just had the adrenal panel & there is only 1 type of cushings, uhg. I do know that the Dr gave her a shot of something while she was down there before her blood draw, if that helps at all. Other then that I will have to waite for her appt this evening.
Debbie & LillyMae weiner

[LillyMae]

You mentioned there are tumors - did they say what kind? Are they on the adrenal gland? Please share all the symptoms your dog currently has. Do they eat a ton or intermittently? Pot belly? Water consumption high? Tell me more about the shakes. Sorry for all the questions but it helps us.

Also what tests were done to diagnose the cushing's?

Thanks! Hang in there. Kim

She had mammary tumors (non-cancerous) Thank God.
She drinks gallons of water & has a ravinous appetite. She has a slight put belly but not huge like I have seen in other cushings dogs. Her shaking is so much so that now her shoulder muscles are huge, she looks like the incredible hulk of weiner dogs. The muscles are huge from constantly being flexed from the shaking. Her shaking is so strong at times that it almost looks like she is having a seizure but she isn't having seizures. Now the whites of her eyes keep going back & forth from being really blood shot to being white & normal looking. She also is having neuro symptoms mostly whan she gets up from laying down, like she gets dizzy when she stands up. Her hair loss is on the bridge of her nose, ears & tail so far that's the only places she lost hair. Also her hair has lost it's luster & on her belly where she was shaved for surgery is coming back in really dry looking & pink instead of red & taking forever to come in. I am thinking at this point that the high blood pressure is causing the shaking the red eyes & the neuro symptoms. I know that the melatonin can cause dizziness but she was dizzy before she was on the melatonin.
Debbie & Mae weiner.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Debbie,
We have many members with more knowledge than I regarding cushings. Cushings can come n a number of forms, Adrenal cushings Tumor on one or both of the adrenal glands) , Pituitary cushings (tumor on the pituitary) , Iatrogenic cushings (induced by steroid drug use) and there is on going discussions of Atypical cushings.

With Pituitary cushing's, there is a possibility that the tumor may grow to the point of putting pressure on an area of the brain. Also known as a macro tumor, which may cause some nerve related side effects.

Has an High definition ultra sound been performed to rule out adreanal cushngs?

Has LilyMae had her thyroid checked... My Rozee had some uncontrollable shaking and even though her numbers came back low normal, she was put on soloxine and after a few weeks, her shaking has pretty much ceased. Just a thought.

[LillyMae]

Hi Debbie,
We have many members with more knowledge than I regarding cushings. Cushings can come n a number of forms, Adrenal cushings Tumor on one or both of the adrenal glands) , Pituitary cushings (tumor on the pituitary) , Iatrogenic cushings (induced by steroid drug use) and there is on going discussions of Atypical cushings.

With Pituitary cushing's, there is a possibility that the tumor may grow to the point of putting pressure on an area of the brain. Also known as a macro tumor, which may cause some nerve related side effects.

Has an High definition ultra sound been performed to rule out adreanal cushngs?

Has LilyMae had her thyroid checked... My Rozee had some uncontrollable shaking and even though her numbers came back low normal, she was put on soloxine and after a few weeks, her shaking has pretty much ceased. Just a thought.

Lilly has had no pics of any kind & since she's been with me 2 1/2 yrs there has been no steroid use & no thyroid test yet but I will deff have that checked on another day as she will need a fast for that. I have read that 85% of cushings is pituitary & 15% adrenal so I have been concerned about the tumor situation. Other then steroid use do the other types of cushings always come from tumors ? I know at this time a tumor in the head can not be ruled out however I am not thinking that if she does have one that it is causing her shaking as the day she left my home to go for surgery she seemed fine and I say seemed as I now know that she's had cushings since I have had her , but the surgery has exaserbated the situation because the only real sign she had before surgery was the appetite & the water consumption. I am so angry that she is going through this as before she came to me she was used for a breeding machine, tied to a tree in the back yard in the blistering heat of summer & the below freezing temp in the winter all the while suffering from back pain & a severly infected mouth:mad:
Deb & Lil

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Debbie,
There are a number of articles and information in our "Information and Resources Section" but regarding "Atypcal" here is a link you may want to check out some of the post.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198

I noticed earlier, that the vet had an adrenal panel done. Was this through the University of Knoxville? If so, please ask your vet for a copy of the results. Seems from what I have been reading here, If it was the UTK panel and they recommended Melatonin & Flaxseed, they may be thinking Atypical cushings.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Debbie,

A belated welcome from me. High blood pressure can cause the eyes to look "bloodshot." The shaking could be stress-induced, pain related, among other things. Is Lilly taking any pain medicines or any other kinds of herbs/supplements/medicines?

Love and hugs,
Lori

[LillyMae]

Hi Debbie,

A belated welcome from me. High blood pressure can cause the eyes to look "bloodshot." The shaking could be stress-induced, pain related, among other things. Is Lilly taking any pain medicines or any other kinds of herbs/supplements/medicines?

Love and hugs,
Lori

We have ruled out pain as she has taken Tramadol & Carprophen with no relief whatsoever. Lilly also takes Ester-C & Fish Oil & valium for the shaking which does not seem to be working + the Flaxseed & Melatonin. I believe this shaking is something from within in other words Madical & not pain induced as she really doesn't appear to be in pain. I know that dogs hide their pain as I have been rescuing dogs for many years & pretty much know the signs but this is not like pain shaking at all, more like she's had 25 pots of coffee & it makes her muscles spasm as well.

[LillyMae]

I want to say Thank You! to everyone for all of your help & fast responses & for the Welcomes as well. I will be back after our vet visit this evening & hopefuly some answers for this horrible shaking.
Deb & Lil

[Roxee's Dad]

Good luck at the Vet's Debbie and Lily Mae. Hope they find the cause very soon and it will be easily remedied .

Bless you for helping rescue's in need and looking forward to what your vet has to say.

[frijole]

Did you have an ultrasound done to look at the adrenal glands? That would rule in or out an adrenal tumor. There is more than one type. My dog Annie was misdiagnosed as having cushings (she had 5 false positive cushings tests) and she has an adrenal tumor called a pheochromocytoma.

The factor that was used to classify it as a pheo was high blood pressure. It comes and goes as the tumor is sometimes dormant. She doesn't have the eating/drinking issue but she shakes, has leg weakness (including dizziness). Does your dog get hot and sweat? This is a very rare tumor and is very often ruled as something else. Just sharing my story in the event any of it is similar.

You have certainly been thru the wringer and I feel so bad for you. Hang in there. Kim

[LillyMae]

Did you have an ultrasound done to look at the adrenal glands? That would rule in or out an adrenal tumor. There is more than one type. My dog Annie was misdiagnosed as having cushings (she had 5 false positive cushings tests) and she has an adrenal tumor called a pheochromocytoma.

The factor that was used to classify it as a pheo was high blood pressure. It comes and goes as the tumor is sometimes dormant. She doesn't have the eating/drinking issue but she shakes, has leg weakness (including dizziness). Does your dog get hot and sweat? This is a very rare tumor and is very often ruled as something else. Just sharing my story in the event any of it is similar.

You have certainly been thru the wringer and I feel so bad for you. Hang in there. Kim
Thank You for sharing. No she does not get hot & sweat which is surprising given all the shaking she does & has not had ultrasound.


So we just got home from the vet & her blood pressure is fine even under vet visit stress:confused: We did do a blood draw for thyroid & will know how that turns out next week sometime & go from there.
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

Here are the Adrenal Panel Results From Knoxville,TN:

-----------------baseline / normal range / post ACTH / normal range

Cortisol ng/ml 24.3 / 2.1-58.8 / 220 7* / 65.0-174.6

Androstenedione 0.51 / 0.05-0.57 / 9.25* / 0.27-3.97

Estrediol 92.2* / 30.8-69.9 / 77.2* / 27.9-69.2

Progesterone 0.13 / 0.03-0.49 / 3.21* / 0.10-1.50

17 OH Progesterone 0.13 / 0.08-0.77 / 3.52* / 0.40-1.62

Aldosterone 27.2 / 11-139.9 / 236.8 / 72.9-398.5

[LillyMae]

Has anyone here tried Cushex Drops ? If so , how did it work ?


Moderator's Note: Debbie, I have merged your post about Cushex drops into Lil's orignal thread. We normally like to keep all posts on a pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for other member's to refer to the pup's history when needed.

[StarDeb55]

Debbie, a belated welcome to both you & Lil! I can tell you not to waste your money on Cushex drops, it's a scam simply to take your money. These people pray on folks whose pups have been newly diagnosed, & they're looking for answers when it comes to treatment. One of our administrators has even written to the company asking for documentation that shows that their product is effective in reducing a pup's cortisol levels. The company could provide nothing. The only 2 effective treatments are trilostane or lysodren.

Debbie

[LillyMae]

Sorry I did not know. Thank You for moving this.:)

[LillyMae]

Debbie, a belated welcome to both you & Lil! I can tell you not to waste your money on Cushex drops, it's a scam simply to take your money. These people pray on folks whose pups have been newly diagnosed, & they're looking for answers when it comes to treatment. One of our administrators has even written to the company asking for documentation that shows that their product is effective in reducing a pup's cortisol levels. The company could provide nothing. The only 2 effective treatments are trilostane or lysodren.

Debbie

Then the Melatonin & Flaxseed do not work ?

[StarDeb55]

Melatonin & flaxseed are normally used when a pup has a diagnosis of strictly Atypical Cushing's with little or no elevation in cortisol. These 2 things are usually aimed at controlling elevated estrogen levels since estrogen can be made in other tissue besides the adrenals.

Debbie, I know you are looking for the least severe medication to give Lil that is effective. If Cushex drops or any of these other internet based products were effective we would all have our babies on them in a flash. I'm sorry, but they simply do not work.

Debbie

[LillyMae]

Melatonin & flaxseed are normally used when a pup has a diagnosis of strictly Atypical Cushing's with little or no elevation in cortisol. These 2 things are usually aimed at controlling elevated estrogen levels since estrogen can be made in other tissue besides the adrenals.

Debbie, I know you are looking for the least severe medication to give Lil that is effective. If Cushex drops or any of these other internet based products were effective we would all have our babies on them in a flash. I'm sorry, but they simply do not work.

Debbie

Oh no I deff understand what you are saying here. I was just inquiring as I have Hashimotos & know that I do take some things from health food stores that make a huge diff for my situation & yes I would prefer to use something less taxing on Lilly, However I will do what will give her the Best quality of life for the time we have left together & if that means meds then so be it. I know lots of my condition but nothing of Lillys & is what I'm here for & why I asked about the Cushex drops because I know that calling the company for Honest answers would be pointless. I do appreciate very much your honest opinion and it Is very helpful. Thank You !
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

Oh no I deff understand what you are saying here. I was just inquiring as I have Hashimotos & know that I do take some things from health food stores that make a huge diff for my situation & yes I would prefer to use something less taxing on Lilly, However I will do what will give her the Best quality of life for the time we have left together & if that means meds then so be it. I know lots of my condition but nothing of Lillys & is what I'm here for & why I asked about the Cushex drops because I know that calling the company for Honest answers would be pointless. I do appreciate very much your honest opinion and it Is very helpful. Thank You !
Deb & Lil

One more thing, Did you look at her results that I posted ? & in your opinion, do you think the Melatonin & Flax are enough for my Mae ?
Hmm I seem to have only quoted myself here, Lol. Oh well, you will probably get it anyway.

[lulusmom]

Hi Deb and welcome to the forum.

First let me say that I think you are an angel for adopting Lilly Mae. I am a rescuer and Lilly's story reminds me of a little senior Pom I fostered. Her name was Tia and she had a mass on her chest and horrific mammary tumors. All of the tumors and her teets were removed. She was deaf and mostly blind and it was very apparent that she was used a breeder for years and then thrown away like yesterday's trash when she became a problem. The mass on her chest was benign; however, she succumbed to cancer a year after being adopted. Her mom adored her and didn't mind that she was never housebroken. Thank goodness for people like you and Tia's mom who give these babies the only chance they've ever had to be loved and cherished. Lilly Mae is one lucky girl to have crossed paths with you. :D

Now with that out of the way, I've read your posts and have a few questions and comments for you. It appears that the only diagnostic testing that has been done so far is the UTK adrenal panel. Is that correct? The post stimulated cortisol should be considered borderline for cushing's and in the absence of additional validating test, I don't believe a cushing's diagnosis can be confirmed just yet. Have you had any bloodwork done since January? If so, can you please post the abnormal values only, to include the normal reference ranges. You mentioned that Lilly drinks a lot of water. I assume that she also pees voluminous amounts, right? Did your vet do a urinalysis to check for a UTI? This is usually standard when cushing's is supected as is checking the urine specific gravity (USG). The vast majority of cushdogs have low specific gravity and a good number of them also have UTI's. Was either of these tests done? If not, I would have those things checked and make sure that a urine culture is done.

As I said before, the post cortisol is borderline which could be attributed to stress or any number of non adrenal problems and it seems like Lilly has had her share of stress since January. Stress and non adrenal illness can also cause elevations in the other adrenal hormones. Additionally, the hair loss pattern you mention does not fit with cushing's. Unless a cushdog has demodectic mange brought on by a compromised immune system, hair loss anywhere on the head is not the norm. Has Lilly's appetite been huge since you've adopted her or is this something that is fairly new in the way of symptoms?

I'm not saying the Lilly doesn't have cushing's and most of know that Dachshund are at the top of the list of breeds that seem to be over represented. However, I think it may be a bit premature to be discussing treatment until sufficient testing has been done. If blood and urine tests have not been done recently, I would have those done first and if they are consistent with cushing's, you should probably consider an abdominal ultrasound to validate the UTK adrenal panel as well as determine whether Lilly has a adrenal or pituitary based cushing's

I'm sure sorry for the reasons that brought you here but hey, I'm tickled pink that you found us. We're here to help you and Lilly in any way we can.

Glynda

[Harley PoMMom]

Here are the Adrenal Panel Results From Knoxville,TN:

-----------------baseline / normal range / post ACTH / normal range

Cortisol ng/ml 24.3 / 2.1-58.8 / 220 7* / 65.0-174.6

Androstenedione 0.51 / 0.05-0.57 / 9.25* / 0.27-3.97

Estrediol 92.2* / 30.8-69.9 / 77.2* / 27.9-69.2

Progesterone 0.13 / 0.03-0.49 / 3.21* / 0.10-1.50

17 OH Progesterone 0.13 / 0.08-0.77 / 3.52* / 0.40-1.62

Aldosterone 27.2 / 11-139.9 / 236.8 / 72.9-398.5


One more thing, Did you look at her results that I posted ? & in your opinion, do you think the Melatonin & Flax are enough for my Mae ?
Hmm I seem to have only quoted myself here, Lol. Oh well, you will probably get it anyway.

Hi Debbie,

Many things can elevate cortisol in a dog such as any non-adrenal illnesses and stress. Since Mae is having some issues and her cortisol level is borderline, if she were my dog, I would just start with the melatonin and flax. Has your vet mentioned that the melatonin should just be the plain variety, not the fast-acting or time released kind.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[LillyMae]

Hi Deb and welcome to the forum.

First let me say that I think you are an angel for adopting Lilly Mae. I am a rescuer and Lilly's story reminds me of a little senior Pom I fostered. Her name was Tia and she had a mass on her chest and horrific mammary tumors. All of the tumors and her teets were removed. She was deaf and mostly blind and it was very apparent that she was used a breeder for years and then thrown away like yesterday's trash when she became a problem. The mass on her chest was benign; however, she succumbed to cancer a year after being adopted. Her mom adored her and didn't mind that she was never housebroken. Thank goodness for people like you and Tia's mom who give these babies the only chance they've ever had to be loved and cherished. Lilly Mae is one lucky girl to have crossed paths with you. :D

Now with that out of the way, I've read your posts and have a few questions and comments for you. It appears that the only diagnostic testing that has been done so far is the UTK adrenal panel. Is that correct? The post stimulated cortisol should be considered borderline for cushing's and in the absence of additional validating test, I don't believe a cushing's diagnosis can be confirmed just yet. Have you had any bloodwork done since January? If so, can you please post the abnormal values only, to include the normal reference ranges. You mentioned that Lilly drinks a lot of water. I assume that she also pees voluminous amounts, right? Did your vet do a urinalysis to check for a UTI? This is usually standard when cushing's is supected as is checking the urine specific gravity (USG). The vast majority of cushdogs have low specific gravity and a good number of them also have UTI's. Was either of these tests done? If not, I would have those things checked and make sure that a urine culture is done.

As I said before, the post cortisol is borderline which could be attributed to stress or any number of non adrenal problems and it seems like Lilly has had her share of stress since January. Stress and non adrenal illness can also cause elevations in the other adrenal hormones. Additionally, the hair loss pattern you mention does not fit with cushing's. Unless a cushdog has demodectic mange brought on by a compromised immune system, hair loss anywhere on the head is not the norm. Has Lilly's appetite been huge since you've adopted her or is this something that is fairly new in the way of symptoms?

I'm not saying the Lilly doesn't have cushing's and most of know that Dachshund are at the top of the list of breeds that seem to be over represented. However, I think it may be a bit premature to be discussing treatment until sufficient testing has been done. If blood and urine tests have not been done recently, I would have those done first and if they are consistent with cushing's, you should probably consider an abdominal ultrasound to validate the UTK adrenal panel as well as determine whether Lilly has a adrenal or pituitary based cushing's

I'm sure sorry for the reasons that brought you here but hey, I'm tickled pink that you found us. We're here to help you and Lilly in any way we can.

Glynda

Yes this is correct, the UTK adrenal is all the testing she has had except for the pre-op before her mammary removals which revealed that her cholesterol & liver were slightly off. Oh and that was rechecked at the time of the adrenal tests and they were just barely worse then before the surgery. Surgery was on Jan 20th & the blood adrenal was done 2 wks ago this last thursday. The Dr also checked her urine & no UTI but something was off & I can't remember what he said about it. And Yes she pees buckets full. As you said here , no her hair loss is not what is usually seen in cushings, however when I searched for thyroid symptoms I did come onto one site that described her hair loss to the T. Her hair loss is only on her ears , bridge of her nose & her tail and the thyroid site I was on described this exactly describing the tail as a rat Tail. One other thing that she does Not do that cushings dogs do is Pant, since her surgery I have cought her panting only 3 or 4 times & that did not last for more then a couple of minutes each time. Today she had a draw for Thyroid as i believe she has something going on there as well. Is there a diff in treatment between Pituitary vs Adrenal ?
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

Hi Debbie,

Many things can elevate cortisol in a dog such as any non-adrenal illnesses and stress. Since Mae is having some issues and her cortisol level is borderline, if she were my dog, I would just start with the melatonin and flax. Has your vet mentioned that the melatonin should just be the plain variety, not the fast-acting or time released kind.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Hmmm, you bring a good point to mind. I don't know for sure about the melatonin & I bought the liquid by Source Naturals & it's orange flavored, it does not say time released or fast acting on it anywhere but just the fact that it's liquid I would think that it Is fast acting. looks like I will be going to the healthfood tomorrow, is there one that's better that I should look for ? The Flaxseed hulls is the one that my vet recommended (FlaxNaturally, concentrated Lignans powder and she gets 1/16 of a tsp per day.
Deb & Lil

[addy]

Hi and Welcome from me as well,

My Zoe has Cushings, not atypical with increased intermediate hormones. As she also has colitis, we started with melatonin and lignans even though her cortisol was elevated. I did see an improvement in her estradiol and other intermediate hormones but her cortisol went higher. The only improvement I saw in her symptoms related to her estradiol and not being as crabby and not looking for cold places to lie. But keep in mind, her cortisol was also going higher then.

We have now just started treating her cortisol with Trilostane with the understanding that it will most likely increase those very hormones we just reduced. The significance of that is debated by various specialists.

I will say that if you go to the link on the University of Tennessee's treatment options, it does explain that lignans can also lower cortisol.
See option 4 at
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/TreatmentInfoAtypicalCushings201102.pdf

My internist was adamant about me stopping the lignans and melatonin while we started the Trilostane because of that. I questioned her but then found the information as I indicated above.

Keep in mind, my dog is super sensitive to some drugs and has other health issues so these facts had a bearing on her conservative approach.

Thought I would just chime in.

Welcome to out forum.


hugs,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Aside from the thyroid panel, is your vet planning to do any other testing to confirm a true diagnosis? If so, I wouldn't start any treatment until those have been completed and your vet has discussed all of your options with you. What has your vet discussed with you at this point? I ask because Lilly has overt symptoms and a post stim that is high enough to suspect she has typical cushing's but without further testing, a comprehensive diagnosis cannot be made. If she does have typical cushing's, melatonin and lignans will be ineffective and the law of averages say that you won't see much improvement in symptoms. We've had a number of members who have reported that their dogs with "atypical" cushing's have improved with these supplements; however, I believe they may be in the minority. I think the efficacy rate when administered for atypical cushing's is somewhere around 40% to 50% and improvements are usually not noticeable for several months.

Do you know if your vet is doing a complete thyroid panel? A good number of dogs with cushing's will have low T4 but this is a temporary condition which usually normalizes once the cushing's has been effectively controlled. This is called sick euthyroid syndrome and the only way to know the difference between this and primary hypothyroidism is to do a free T4 by equilibrium dialysis. Hopefully this is what your vet is doing.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Deb and welcome to you and Lil! :)

My Squirt is Atypical, tho her cortisol did start to creep up even tho it remains within the normal range. She was on lignans and melatonin only for nearly 3 years and recently we started on a maintenance dose of Lysodren. She started displaying strong signs so I knew it was time to add the Lyso. ;)

For pups with elevated intermediate hormones, the sex hormones, UTK has determined that Trilostane causes elevations in some of the intermediates. This quote is from the Feb. 2011 treatment option sheet from UTK:


Trilostane. Now available in the U.S. as VetorylTM from Dechra Veterinay Products. NOTE: Trilostane always increases 17-hydroxyprogesterone (some cross-reactivity with pregnenolones in assays??), and frequently increases estradiol and androstenedione as well. LysodrenTM may be preferred for Atypical Cushing’s cases.

This is a topic of much controversy among vets, researchers and members here but I fully trust UTK and Dr. Oliver when it comes to these pups with elevated intermediates - they are the premier researchers in this area. So, it has been my decision to follow their recommendations, and no one elses, when it comes to Squirt's Cushing's treatment. Please understand, this is my decision for my baby - others have chosen different paths and have been just as satisfied with the results. I simply choose to stick with the experts in this area and I believe those experts are Dr. Oliver and UTK - period. ;)

When Squirt was first diagnosed, her cortisol was much higher and she was originally diagnosed with PDH - the pituitary form. But an ultrasound found a tumor on her spleen and once it, along with part of her spleen, were removed her cortisol returned to normal and has remained there. Her elevated cortisol that caused positive results on FIVE Cushing's tests was the result of the physiological stress of that tumor. Cortisol is among the normal responses of the body to stress. LillyMae has certainly had her share of physiological stressors. I highly recommend an abdominal ultrasound to help determine IF she does have Cushing's, if so which form, and to get a look at the other organs before starting her on Lyso, or Trilo. I would stick with the melatonin and lignans for now.

If she hasn't had a CBC, or blood work up, lately I would have that done as well to rule out hypothyroidism and diabetes as they will present very similar to Cushing's.

You are an angel for taking LillyMae and giving her such a loving, caring home. :D Bless you! :):):)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I was recently diagnosed with Hashimotos and you are the only other person I have heard of with it, so we need to talk! ;)

[LillyMae]

Ok, What about Diet ? Is there foods that she should Not have & foods that are better for her as I feed fruits & veggies often either as a snack or mixed with their meals.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Deb,

The main thing to watch with cush pups is the fat content of their feed. Since cush pups are prone to pancreatitic problems, keeping the fats low is important. Proteins can be a bit higher than usual, tho.

If you are feeding a good, high-quality feed, then she is probably alright with that, especially with the freshies added in. ;) Fresh fruit and veggies are GREAT both as toppers to the meal and as treats. Since you are looking into thyroid issues, I would avoid things like broccoli, kale, spinach - members of the Brassica family - as they can cause a suppression of function in the thyroid. With Hashimoto's, you probably already know this, huh? :p

http://www.ithyroid.com/goitrogens.htm

Keep up the good work!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[LillyMae]

Hi Deb,

The main thing to watch with cush pups is the fat content of their feed. Since cush pups are prone to pancreatitic problems, keeping the fats low is important. Proteins can be a bit higher than usual, tho.

If you are feeding a good, high-quality feed, then she is probably alright with that, especially with the freshies added in. ;) Fresh fruit and veggies are GREAT both as toppers to the meal and as treats. Since you are looking into thyroid issues, I would avoid things like broccoli, kale, spinach - members of the Brassica family - as they can cause a suppression of function in the thyroid. With Hashimoto's, you probably already know this, huh? :p

http://www.ithyroid.com/goitrogens.htm

Keep up the good work!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Thanks Leslie. You know what's funny is that I did not know that about the veggies that you mentioned even with all the research I have done for my own thyroid ,but that's one of the 1st things that I came upon while researching for my Lilly. I am not sure I will be able to follow along with this restriction for myself as broccoli & kale are 2 of my favorite foods & I could eat them every night. I may need intervention for this :eek: Lol.

[LillyMae]

Lilly Update :
Lilly had her Thyroid checked & the results came back & her Thyroid is functioning properly at this time. Tonight out of the blue she got quite frisky which I have not seen her do since back in Jan before her surgery, so we went outside & had a nice romp in the grass. She is still on the Flax & Melatonin & I think it's finally starting to get in her system as her shaking seems less now then it was a week ago & her energy level is up & water consumption is way less then it's ever been & she is not acting like she is starving all of the time. I do have a concern though & that is that I have a cherry tree in my back yard that is Full of cherries that will be ripening very soon & the cherries will be all over the ground. My problem is that Lilly LOVES cherries & spends ALL of her time searching for & eating the cherries that fall on the ground, so does anyone know of a reason that Lilly should not eat cherries ?
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Debbie,

Cherries are listed among the toxic fruits for dogs but it seems it is the pits that are the problem. They contain cyanide. So I think the cherry itself is alright but I doubt Lilly knows to spit out the pit. :D;) Now, how many pits she would have to eat to have a detrimental effect, I can't say but perhaps your vet could help with that....or someone else here may have some experience they can share. Google is all I have to offer on this topic. :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I am going to get back to you on your PM. That was mind-blowing!

[LillyMae]

Hi Debbie,

Cherries are listed among the toxic fruits for dogs but it seems it is the pits that are the problem. They contain cyanide. So I think the cherry itself is alright but I doubt Lilly knows to spit out the pit. :D;) Now, how many pits she would have to eat to have a detrimental effect, I can't say but perhaps your vet could help with that....or someone else here may have some experience they can share. Google is all I have to offer on this topic. :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I am going to get back to you on your PM. That was mind-blowing!

Ooooh but she does spit out the pits & it's the cutest thing to see, lol
Thanks for your response:)
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[MBK]

Hi. Lilly.

Thanks for the tip about using Chammomile tea as a rinse for itchy skin. Alivia has had a problem with that for awhile. We've tried just about everything. Right now, it is better than it has been, but she still could use something! I'll give this a try!

[LillyMae]

I am so sad as today I went & picked some cherries off the tree for LillyMae as the birds have gotten all the ones that hit the ground. Anyway I gave one to my Mae weiner & she sniffed it & walked away, it made me want to cry. Why would she walk away from one of her favorite things ? She doesn't seem to have a tummy ache as she eats her food just fine.:(

[LillyMae]

Hi. Lilly.

Thanks for the tip about using Chammomile tea as a rinse for itchy skin. Alivia has had a problem with that for awhile. We've tried just about everything. Right now, it is better than it has been, but she still could use something! I'll give this a try!

You are very welcome. I hope it works for her as it has worked for my rescues most of the time. Do you give Alivia Fish Oil ? as that can make a big diff too.
Deb & Lil

[addy]

Don't be sad yet Deb. Maybe it is more fun for her to find them on the ground herself. How about if you pick one off the tree and put it on the ground for her to find?

My Zoe loves crab apples. She can't have them but she is always on the look out for them. Our subdivision has crab apple trees everywhere:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Walking her can be a challenge, we have to stay in the middle of the street:rolleyes:

Hugs,
Addy

[LillyMae]

Don't be sad yet Deb. Maybe it is more fun for her to find them on the ground herself. How about if you pick one off the tree and put it on the ground for her to find?

My Zoe loves crab apples. She can't have them but she is always on the look out for them. Our subdivision has crab apple trees everywhere:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Walking her can be a challenge, we have to stay in the middle of the street:rolleyes:

Hugs,
Addy

Thank You Addy, But that's exactly what I did & all she did was sniff it & walk away. I tried a few more times last night & today & she's having no part of them. This will be Lillys 3rd summer with me & she has never turned away from a cherrie since I have had her. She still wants the brocolli so I am wondering if she can sense that she should not be having sugar as it feeds cancers & tumors, IDK but I don't like it.
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

K... I was just reading another thread & it was said that the Lignans dose has changed. LillyMae is 15 lbs & she is on the Heartland Lignans powder. Can anyone tell me what the amt would be for her ?
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[addy]

Hi Debbie,

I don't think the dose has changed but they no longer have flax oil on the chart. How much were you giving? Zoe was 18.5 pounds and I gave her 1/8 teaspoon per day. If you give a bit more it should not be a problem unless the fiber bothers Lilly Mae.

I only have a minute or I could go back and calculate for you. If I have a chance, I'll do at lunch. Otherwise the page on the University of Tenn Knoxville will tell you.

Hugs,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Re; dosage of lignans, According to the Treatment Option Considerations from the University of Tennessee:
Lignans are safe, so doses don’t have to be exact. Suggested doses: SDG lignan; one milligram/lb B. Wt./day. HMR lignan; 10-40 mg/day for small to large dogs.

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/TreatmentInfoAtypicalCushings201102.pdf

Love and hugs,
Lori

[LillyMae]

Ok, what I am finding is: 1 ml per 1 lbs of body wt which would be 3 tsp for a 15 lbs dog. If she needs 15 ml would =3 tsp. Is this correct or am I doing this all wrong ? My Vet said only 1/16 tsp:confused:
I am concerned as she has been having some serious shaking/spasms mostly in the late night & is very dizzy during this time. Other then that she seem so much better.

[addy]

Heartland Natural (www.heartlandnatural.com). Capsules/Powder.
90 Capsules per container. 33 mg of SDG flax hull lignan per capsule.
5.3 ounce concentrated SDG flax hull lignan powder. 6 grams of this product contains 223 mg of SDG lignan.
One standard-sized teaspoonful contains 5 grams, or approximately 185 mg of SDG flax hull lignan.
One-half teaspoonful would contain 93 mg of SDG flax hull lignan.

Debbie,

If you go to http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/20100810-LIGNAN-Write-Up-Revision03.pdf

You will find more detailed information. Zoe took 1/8 teaspoon and she is 18.5 pounds ( I gave her extra) so 1/16 teaspoon for Lilly Mae sound right to me.
If you used the Heartland powder she would be getting 11.63 mgs of lignans at 1/16 teaspoon.

Hugs,
Addy

[LillyMae]

Debbie,

If you go to http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/20100810-LIGNAN-Write-Up-Revision03.pdf

You will find more detailed information. Zoe took 1/8 teaspoon and she is 18.5 pounds ( I gave her extra) so 1/16 teaspoon for Lilly Mae sound right to me.
If you used the Heartland powder she would be getting 11.63 mgs of lignans at 1/16 teaspoon.

Hugs,
Addy

Thank You so much Addy. I searched several sites & they all said 3 tsp so not sure what the heck that was about. Anyway I think Lilly will be switched to the Lysodren as her shaking at night is overwhelming for her & lasts about 2 hrs & I'm concerned anout her heart as it's more muscle spasm then shaking & the heart is a muscle so it's got me very worried.
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

Re; dosage of lignans, According to the Treatment Option Considerations from the University of Tennessee:

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/TreatmentInfoAtypicalCushings201102.pdf

Love and hugs,
Lori

Thank You lori, this info is very informative but does not give the conversion I was looking for. Lilly will be starting the Lysodren in the A.M. as the spasms are just way too much for the old gal to take & the lignans & melatonun just don't seem to be doing the trick.
Deb & Lil

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Deb,

I looked back through your thread but didn't see what I was looking for so I will just ask. :)

What dose of Lyso has been prescribed for Lilly? Are you doing a loading phase? (That is when you give a dose every day for a few days.) If you are loading Lilly, do you have prednisone on hand? If not and you are loading, call your vet and ask for some just in case her cortisol drops too low. (This is not a suggestion, it is a requirement with Cushing's treatments - either one. ;) Most pups do just fine with a load but it is best to be prepared just in case.) If you are loading, did your vet discuss the signs to look for that indicate she is loaded and/or that she had gone too low? Just in case you are doing a load, here is a link that has some great info:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

If Lilly is not going to be loaded but use a maintenance dose - ie a dose 2-4X/week - some of these tips won't apply but the info is still useful. You will still need some pred on hand even tho it is even less likely to be needed.

Let us know how things are going, 'k?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[LillyMae]

Good Morning Leslie
Lilly will be on maintenence dose. The Lysodren is 500 mg tabs & she will be taking 1/4 tab 3 times a week. I will be starting it on Friday & she will be getting it on Mon, Wed, Fri. My vet called me yesterday to discuss symptoms & make sure I had some Pred on hand which I do. With all my reject rescues I think I have every med there is to be had. The only ones I did not have are meds for cushings because amazingly enough after 20 + yrs of rescuing only the sick & injured, I have never had a cush pup. Thank You for the link & I will be checking it out rite now. Oh & one more thing, should I give her Pepcid before her 1st dose or should I wait & see if it gives her a belly ache ? & what about ProBiotics ?
Deb & Lil

[addy]

When I started Zoe on her Vetoryl, I waited two weeks to try the Pepcid but I have to be so careful with Zoe and only try one new thing at a time. You could give Lil the first few doses and see how she does before trying the Pepcid.

If she were mine, I would hold off on adding probiotics to the mix if she is not already on them.

Hugs,
Addy

[LillyMae]

When I started Zoe on her Vetoryl, I waited two weeks to try the Pepcid but I have to be so careful with Zoe and only try one new thing at a time. You could give Lil the first few doses and see how she does before trying the Pepcid.

If she were mine, I would hold off on adding probiotics to the mix if she is not already on them.

Hugs,
Addy

Hi Addy
Lilly has had both Pepcid & ProBiotic in the past with no problem at all. I'll tell you , this old girl has a rock gut & has never had a bout of soft or yucky poo or belly ache since I have had her. One time my DH left a plastic grocery bag about 1/4 full on the kit table & lilly got up there & got it & ate ALL of the food. She looked like she swallowed a football & 1/2 bottle of peroxide did not make her puke & DH took her to the ER & they gave her stuff & the vet said she will deff puke now. Ha ! she showed them, she was NOT parting with that food for nothin. She said "it's MINE & your not having it back" , Lol. I gave her the pill this A.M. & pepcid & so far so good. I was Very nervous giving it too her, IDK like I thought she would drop dead rite then & there.
Deb & Lil

[LillyMae]

Update: Lilly took her 1st pill yesterday & seemed a bit tired for about 2 hrs after but then she started to act like her old self again wanting to go out with the others & run the fence line & bark at the pasersby. We spent alot of time out doors yesterday & today as she didn't want to come inside. I did give her a valium last night as she was having muscle spasms however they did not seem to be as bad. Rite now she is asleep on the couch & her shaking is minimal & she's not had any valium tonight. Is it comon for the lysodren to work this fast ? I'm a bit nervous as it seems too good to be true & I have learned that when something seems to be too good to be true that it usually is.

[StarDeb55]

Lily, I don't see where you answered Leslie's previous question about whether or not you are loading. Could you remind me, also? If you are loading, it's very unlikely that lyso would work this quickly. Average load times are 5-9 days. Some pups may load in as little as 3 days, some can take a lot longer.

Debbie

[Squirt's Mom]

Good Morning Leslie
Lilly will be on maintenence dose. The Lysodren is 500 mg tabs & she will be taking 1/4 tab 3 times a week.

Hey, Debbie, Deb did give the dosing for Lilly - and no loading phase, just maintenance. (Looks strange - addressing Debbie about Deb. :D )


Deb, when Squirt started her maintenance, I saw results within the first week - primarily her thirst decreased, then appetite, then her energy and stamina increased, and she started resting good at nite by the second week or so. The only sign that is really present now is the panting, but it is so very hot here I don't think that is Cushing's related. She is taking 125mg 2x/week.

I look at the way we are treating as sorta stunning the adrenals VS eroding a minuscule layer of the cortex of the glands as is the goal in a load. So the dog, the dose, and the sensitivity of the adrenals will determine when we see improvement and how much. Squirt and I have been very lucky our whole journey, and we seem to be enjoying that same luck with her response to her maintenance. When she started playing with toys again, I knew she was feeling good again and that the Lyso truly was doing it's job for her. :D

Hold on to those little things you see that indicate she is feeling better, revel in them, rejoice for them, and above all, enjoy Lilly as she begins to find her old self again. :) I can tell you, it does a heart more good than you can imagine to see them coming back.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[LillyMae]

Update: Today was Lilly's 3rd pill & so far so good. Her thirst & appetite is what I would call normal for the 1st time in the 2 1/2 yrs that she has been with me. she seems to have more energy & is back to normal as far as interest in life & wants to go outside often , instead of just lying in her bed. Thursday she came over to sniff at cherries on the ground but still will not eat them:confused:. Sooo, now if the shaking/muscle spasms would just stop, we will be so very happy as Miss Mae does not like it at all. Can anyone tell me , what is life expectancy after treatment ? & When will the shaking/spasms go away ?

[frijole]

Update: Today was Lilly's 3rd pill & so far so good. Her thirst & appetite is what I would call normal for the 1st time in the 2 1/2 yrs that she has been with me. she seems to have more energy & is back to normal as far as interest in life & wants to go outside often , instead of just lying in her bed. Thursday she came over to sniff at cherries on the ground but still will not eat them:confused:. Sooo, now if the shaking/muscle spasms would just stop, we will be so very happy as Miss Mae does not like it at all. Can anyone tell me , what is life expectancy after treatment ? & When will the shaking/spasms go away ?

:D No dog is alike but my dogs shakiness disappeared within 30 to 60 days gradually. Most cushing's dogs die of something else so there is no 'average life span' after treatment really... my dog Haley lived another 4+ yrs and passed away at the age of 16 1/2! Kim

[addy]

So glad to hear Lillie Mae is doing well. Sounds like a lot of progress already.

I know how you feel about the cherries. If Zoe stopped wanting crab apples, I would feel the same way.

Try to enjoy your holiday weekend. I hope Lillie Mae has a great weekend!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[LillyMae]

Update : Lilly had blood work yesterday & all looks good, we will recheck in 1 month. Her shaking is minimal at this time & seems less everyday. She still will not touch the cherries but eats everything else well. Lilly is Loving the nice weather & wants outside every chance she can get, she also has gone back to jumping out of her bed to wait for dinner instead of waiting till it's done & on the floor to get out of her bed. Lilly is really back to her old happy weiner dog self with the exception of some mild spuratic shaking which I think will go completely away with time. I am praying she will make it to at least 16 yrs old since she is really very healthy other then the cushings.
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[addy]

This is wonderful news. I am so happy to hear Lillie Mae is improving day by day. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

You are doing so great with Lillie Mae. You should be very proud of yourself.:):):):)

Hugs and Belly Rubs,

Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Deb,

Good to hear from you again and with such a great report to boot! :D It does my old heart good to hear that Lilly is doing so well. You done good, Mom!

I know what a joy it was to see Squirt start doing things she hadn't in ages so I understand that your heart is full to see Lilly coming back to her old self once again. Squirt is playing with toys again and I think I enjoy that activity as much as she does! :p;)

Keep up the good work and stay in touch!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[LillyMae]

Happy Easter ! I am wondering if anyone has used Anipryl for Cushings & if so did/is it working ? Lilly has been off all meds now for 2 mo. Lilly was taken off of Lysodren as she was headed towards Addisons & put on Pred for awhile then Cushings again but was taken off the Pred & did very well for a couple of months & now is having serious muscle tremors/shaking again & has had some circling 2 times in 4 days. I have researched the Anipryl & think I would like to try it for Lilly but am hoping for some feedback.
Thank You, Deb & Mae

[LillyMae]

Hello, anyone ?

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi LillyMae

Leslie (Squirt's Mom) used Anipryl initially with Squirt. I will send her a PM to pop over to your thread if she missed it previously.

Angela and Flynn

[frijole]

Happy Easter ! I am wondering if anyone has used Anipryl for Cushings & if so did/is it working ? Lilly has been off all meds now for 2 mo. Lilly was taken off of Lysodren as she was headed towards Addisons & put on Pred for awhile then Cushings again but was taken off the Pred & did very well for a couple of months & now is having serious muscle tremors/shaking again & has had some circling 2 times in 4 days. I have researched the Anipryl & think I would like to try it for Lilly but am hoping for some feedback.
Thank You, Deb & Mae

Hello. I have never used anipryl but based on the tremors and shaking I am wondering if your dog isn't still suffering from Addisons (low cortisol). Have you done an acth test since being off of lysodren? If so please post the results. I just want to make sure the issue is high cortisol and not low cortisol. Thanks. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Deb,

Sorry for not seeing this earlier and thanks to Angela for nudging me.

I used Anipryl when Squirt was first diagnosed and it helped her a great deal for some time - about 9 months. I am using another product now that can help with cognitive issues too and I'll share that info with you as well.

But first, Kim is on the mark about an ACTH. If Mae's levels haven't been checked lately, I think I would do that asap as it could be that her cortisol has gone too low again and adding another med might just confuse the issue. ;) Is Mae doing any better? Any nausea or diarrhea?

Anipryl is a drug used primarily for cognitive disorders in canines but it can be beneficial for a small percentage of Cushing's pups, too. Squirt had some tummy upset with it and I gave her Pepcid AC for a while then Tagamet when the Pepcid quit helping. This is was the only side effect she experienced tho when she first started it, she did act a bit as if she were taking speed for a day or two. :D It does have the potential to help lower cortisol in a small percentage of cush pups.

The other supplement I wanted to tell you about is Phosphytydle Serine 100, or PS 100. It has been shown to help pups with cognitive disorders and some studies are it may have preventative properties for dementia disorders as well. Squirt hasn't displayed any cognitive problems and I started using it last year sometime to help with her Cushing's, primarily to help control the cortisol prior to starting her on Lyso. But, I noticed that she was more alert and interactive after she had been on it a while. Then because of finances, this was one of the things I dropped for a while. She is now back on it. ;)

Here are some links on Anipryl and CCS - Canine Cognitive Syndrome -

Anipryl info*

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_anipryl.html

http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/diseasesall/a/aniprylseniors.htm

http://www.lbah.com/anipryl.htm

http://www.selegiline.com/

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/selegiline-hcl-anipryl/page1.aspx

http://www.drugs.com/vet/anipryl-5-mg-can.html

CCS info

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/cds.html
http://www.cpvh.com/Articles/4.html
http://www.lbah.com/cds.htm *
http://www.cdsindogs.com
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2549
http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878%2807%2900219-5/abstract
http://intelegen.com/nutrients/phosphatidylserine.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2275342/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159106003765
http://www.innovet.it/en/public/prodotti/1/neuroprotection.pdf

Since both these supplements can lower cortisol, it is that much more important that you are sure her levels are not too low before starting either of these. The vet will have to prescribe Anipryl but the PS 100 does not require a prescription.


I hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[LillyMae]

Thank you Leslie, Lilly is not having cognitive symptoms & has Never had Any tummy trouble. Her main problem is the tremours & shaking. Our vet & myself are sure she has gone back to cushings as her thirst & hunger have picked up significantly & is loosing hair again not to mention the many , many trips around the back yard running full speed ahead & having NO part of having me catch her up, lol. I will check out all the info you have provided for me later tonight after my work day is done. Is there ever a time that TOO MUCH energy can be a symptom of Addisons ?
Deb & Mae :)

[TheTankster]

Hi Deb. Tank was on Anipryl and after about two weeks with no noticeable change in any other symptoms, his drinking suddenly went down from 5 +bowls/day to barely 2 bowls/day. His drinking didn't slowly taper off, it just stopped (excessive drinking, that is). His energy level also picked up. For the first time in months, he finished one of our usual trails at the speed he used to walk before the Cushing's. It was the first "normal" walk we had since treatment and the last. I can say, though, Anipryl did work for him, even if for only a few days, symptomaticlly, until he had the seizure. His tremoring was there before the Anipryl though and he still had it occasionally after he was on it. Thanks for your kinds words on his post. I'm still crying everyday and miss him terribly and still not at ease with my decision, but I hope to help others from the hell he went through. My thoughts are with you and LilyMae. Hope she feels better soon.

[LillyMae]

Well, Lillymae wet the bed last night & took her 1st Anapril yesterday. Does any one know if this could be connected to her new med ? I also wanted to add that Lilly had severe shaking/muscle spasms & is what 1st led us to test for cushings. After treatment with lysodren the shaking started to slow down but it was not untill she went to Addisons that the shaking was nearly non existant. Was reading Tanksters story & the shaking that Lilly does is the same as Tanks in the shoulders & head mostly & is more like muscle nerve related when she is on the Cushings side of the fence. Lilly has had her thyroid check & all is well there. I believe it is coming from the pituitary tumor pressing on nerves in her brain causing the spasms.When she is on the Cush side her shoulder & front leg muscles look like the incredible hulk, when she was on the Addisons side her muscles went down & started to look normal.Now her shaking is severe again & muscles huge again she also has head tremors, dizziness & jaw movement/twitching witch are all symptoms she had when 1st diagnosed with Cushings. Lilly has never had any incontinence till now. Also in the beginning her only hair loss was on her ears, bridge of her nose & tail that all grew back in with the lysodren & is now starting to loose hair in those areas again. Last night she booted my ShihTzu out of his spot on my bed so she could lay next to me & she has not done that in over a yr, after she lay next to me she fell asleep & had little shaking & for the past week I have had to give her valium at night for the shaking/spasms & last night she did not need 1 & slept comfy throughout the night.
Deb & Mae:)

[LillyMae]

Just want to update, LillyMae went to Heaven today. Over the last week she had gone down hill rapidly & went totally off her food by Saturday. I knew the tumor in her little head had taken it's toll on her. Rest easy now my sweet LillyMae, I'll see you again one day my Mae.

[Trish]

Dear Deb - reading your story I can see your love for LilyMae shine through and it must be so awful for you right now so here is a hug to help you through this time
Trish xx

[labblab]

Dear Deb,

I am so deeply sorry that your sweet girl has passed. I am so grateful that she was able to spend these last years in your loving care, and I thank you so much for telling us what has happened. LillyMae has now joined our other beloved pups on our special memorial thread of honor:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3918

She will always be remembered by her family here, as will you. So please know that we will always welcome you back at any time, to share stories about your girl or just to talk about how you're doing.

Fare thee well, sweet little girl. Fare thee well as you play with our other dear ones at Rainbow Bridge. One day we shall all be together again, forever and always.

Sending many hugs, always in loving memory of your precious LillyMae.
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Debbie,

I am so sorry to hear about sweet LillyMae. She was so lucky to have had you as her Mom these last few years. You worked so hard to give her the very best life possible in spite of some terrible obstacles and you brought obvious joy into her world. I know LillyMae is forever grateful to you for your love the tender devotion you showed to her.

Today she is pain free, running in the Rainbow Fields with all our babies who have gone before. She is strong, whole, and will be waiting for you there when your job here on Earth is done. Until then, she will watch over you with the same love and devotion you gave so freely to her.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Tasha, and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal


Time to Go

The time has come I think you know
the Lord is calling so I must go
I love you so much; I wish it wasn't so
I wish I could stay; I don't want to go
You're the best family a dog ever had
so kind and gentle, never mean or mad
I'll never forget the day that we met
I was so lucky to become your pet
You opened your door and showed me your heart
I'll never forget you; we'll never part
You loved me and cared for me over the years
you taught me everything and took away my fears
The Lord is calling now I must go
but before I go I want you to know
I know it hurts to lose a friend
but I'll always be with you even to the end.

Written by John Quealy

[mytil]

Oh Debbie,

I am so very very sorry to read this. I know how painful it is and thank you for letting us know.

We are all here for you!
healing (((hugs)))
Terry

[lulusmom]

Debbie, I am so terribly sorry for your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Godspeed Sweet Lilly Mae.

[molly muffin]

I am so sorry that your precious lillymae has passed. I know your heart must be breaking. :(

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Bo's Mom]

I am so deeply sorry about reading about LillyMae. (((HUGS)))