Maya - A big hello - sweet Maya has passed [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

Maya

04-23-2011, 09:38 AM

Hello everyone, I have been lurking around this forum for the past few weeks now, so I thought it was about time that I made my first post and introduce myself. My name is Leah and my furry daughter is called Maya. Maya is 12 years old and has just been diagnosed with Cushings disease. To say that I am absolutely gutted to the core would be an understatement as I was not expecting her to have anything so......so awful.
Maya has been having bad urine infections every year now for the past three years. She would have quite a lot of blood in her pee and when she had no urine left to pee she would pass a clot of blood! This would always clear up with antibiotics. This year however, I decided to have some blood tests done along with a urine test. The urine test came back fine (the antibiotics had cleared up the infection)but, to my horror we were not so lucky with her blood tests. Her ALT, GGT, RBC and HCT levels were high and her ALKP didn't even register!! EOS was slightly low. These results lead us on to her having an abdominal ultrasound scan. Here again, not good. Maya's liver was considerably enlarged and her adrenalin glands were slightly bigger, but they were still within the normal range. THANK GOD no tumours were found! During the ultrasound, the vet did a needle biopsy which later told us that there were no cancer cells present, but there was quite a lot of cortisol. That is what convinced the vet that Maya had Cushings. We did the ACTH test just to confirm the vets suspicions and her results were nmoli/930 (sorry, the English measurement is probably different) but, rest assured , it’s high.
I don’t know how long Maya has had this disease as she has had very few symptoms. She started having weakness and tremors in her back legs last year, but I just put this down to her aging. Let’s face it, she is no spring chicken! I must admit that for some time now I’ve noticed a difference in her, but I just couldn’t put my finger on what it was. She looked smaller, her bones stuck out a bit more, but doesn’t that happen to a lot of old ladies? I saw that she got tired more easily, panted for no reason, in the evening in particular, but nothing over the top . She has always had a good appetite, however her water consumption has been a little more than usual, but not loads more like some stories on here. She does pee more even if it’s just a tiny spot. I’ve notice she stops more often while we are out. On the whole, her symptoms have been very slight, nothing dramatic at all. She is happy and wants to play. She’s always ready to go out for long walks. This whole situation has blown me away! I started her on Vetoryl today. I hate her having take medicine like this, but I know it has to be done. Thanks guys for being here !
Hugs from Leah and Maya

labblab

04-23-2011, 10:17 AM

Dear Leah,

Welcome to you and Maya! I am so sorry for the reasons that have brought you here, but so glad that you have found us. For the benefit of our American members, Maya's diagnostic ACTH result was approx. 34 ug/dl (930 nmol/l divided by 27.59). So that result is definitely elevated and consistent with a diagnosis of Cushing's. And given her ultrasound images, it sounds as though Maya has the pituitary form of the disease.

Can you tell us how much Maya weighs, and also what dose of Vetoryl she is starting out on? As you will know from your reading, you two are in very good company, since we have numerous other members who are actively treating with Vetoryl (trilostane)!

You may already have found this thread, but here's a link to some helpful resource information about Vetoryl treatment and monitoring:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185

Please do continue to ask any questions that come to mind, and once again -- welcome to you both!

Marianne

Maya

04-23-2011, 10:54 AM

Hi there and thanks for the welcome!:) I'll have a look at that link you sent me, good Lord, there's so much information to absorb!
Maya has lost a little weight and she is now 19 and a half kilos. My vet is super cautious and wanted to start her off on a low dose of 30mg of vetoryl to see how she reacts to it. I have to go back in 10 days and she will have another ACTH test to let us know if we need to adjust the dose.
Leah

lulusmom

04-23-2011, 12:38 PM

Hi Leah and welcome to you and Maya.

We all know what it's like to get the dreaded diagnosis. I have two cushdog so I got the bad news twice but here's the very good news. Cushing's is not a death sentence and there are a whole lot of other diagnoses that are a lot worse. My first one was diagnosed at 3 years old and she's 9 now. My second one was diagnosed over three years ago. My babies are itty bitty in comparison to Maya and my littlest one was taking 30mg Trilostane once a day and my other one was on 15mg twice a day. We've had our ups and downs but for the most part, they've been very happy and seem to be enjoying their good quality of life. I realize that doesn't seem possible for Maya at the moment but in time, you'll see just how possible it is.

We're here to help you in any way we can to get Maya back on track so she can settle back into her wonderful life with you. Yes, there is a lot to absorb and you shouldn't expect, nor beat yourself up if the light bulb doesn't go on over night. It's a difficult disease to wrap your head around but just know that knowledge is power and the more you learn, the more calm you will become but more importantly, you will be the best advocate possible for your girl.

Glynda

P.S. It would be great if you could please post the abnormal blood values, including the normal reference ranges.

P.P.S. I forgot to mention that the dose your vet has prescribed is very conservative, which is a good thing. We've learned that it's best to start low and increase if necessary.

Maya

04-23-2011, 02:18 PM

Hi there Glynda, thanks for replying and thanks for the reassurance! I must admit that as soon as I had the diagnosis, I thought to myself, that's it...she's done for! It cheers me up considerably when I hear of dogs who have lived with this illness for a significant amount of time. It brings me hope and positive vibes. :) As I mentioned in my post earlier on, Maya does not seem very sick at the moment. Her symptoms are very slight and had it not have been for all the test results I wouldn't have believed it! My fear now is that the meds themselves will make her sick. There seem to be a lot of sick doggies on the forum. I don't know if this is due to their Cushings/meds or other health issues that they have. I don't want her to suffer, I'm terrified! Here are all the abnormal levels from her blood test. Maya's ACTH test was nmoli 166 before the injection. normal range is considered to be 27-250.
Post ACTH was 980. Normal range is considered to be 200-550. Marianne converted this result in her post to me above.The results below are Europian measurements. I have no idea how to convert them. Thanks very much for your support!:)
Maya's ALT-119 U/L normal range 10-100
GGT-12 U/L normal range 0-10
ALKP would not register, it was off scale!
EOS 0.10 K/uL normal range 0.10-1.49
RBC 8.66 M7uL normal range 5.50-8.50
HCT 56.1% normal range 37.0-55.0

Maya

04-24-2011, 10:50 AM

Hi everyone! I've been going over the forum and reading about everyones experiences and although lots of stories have made me feel a bit better about Maya's situation, I have also got myself a bit paranoid. There is talk of how Cushings disease ia one of the most difficult illnesses to diagnose. For my vet, everything seemed to be straight forward! Maya was not tested for Thyroid problems or diabetes! Does this mean she could have one of those illnesses and not Cushings? For example, would Thyroid problems interfere with the results of the ACTH test? I have posted all the result in my previous posts if anyone wants to take a look and tell me what they think.
Thanks very much
Leah and Maya

labblab

04-24-2011, 11:19 AM

asgparrish

04-24-2011, 11:41 AM

Hi Leah,

I'm sorry to hear about Maya but I think you'll find a lot of helpful information and support on the site. I'm a newbie myself and my Auggie has a different problem so I won't be able to give you any advice but I can say that the forum seems to be full of very knowledgeable, helpful people. I'm sure they'll help you with Maya every step of the way. Don't lose hope!

Tammy

Maya

04-24-2011, 11:50 AM

Hi Leah,

I apologize for only having a moment to post again. But I wanted to make a couple of quick comments. First, I am guessing that thyroid problems and diabetes might have been ruled out by your vet without your knowing it. If you look back through Maya's blood results, do you see readings for "T4" and "glucose?" Those would be indicators of Maya's thyroid function and the amount of sugar in her blood sample. If those were both within normal range, there is less reason to suspect that those are the source of problems for her. Her elevated liver values are indeed consistent with Cushing's. And although the ACTH can be affected by other nonadrenal disease, Maya's highly elevated reading is again consistent with the Cushing's diagnosis. So take another look at those lab values, and see what you can find, OK?

Marianne

Good grief! No need to apologise at all! I do realize you have a life to live:D I'm so grateful for any input at all! Yes, you are right about the results. I suppose I was just clutching at straws for a moment there. There is so much information out there on the internet that it's quite easy to get sucked up by it all and then you tend to start over analysing things. I'm notorious for it!:o
Thanks very much !

Maya

04-24-2011, 11:53 AM

labblab

04-24-2011, 12:02 PM

Leah, I do want to add one more thought. And that is to tell you that we have many, many folks who are here only briefly during the diagnostic phase or when they are first beginning medication. When things go smoothly for them, they tend to drift away -- which is only natural. Some people (like me!) form fast friendships here, and stay on regardless of how much advice they still need after their dogs are stabilized. But others remain because the treatment road has not been as simple or straightforward for their dogs. So in that sense, you may be getting a biased impression of the difficulties that Cushing's dogs face during treatment. Because more questions will be asked here about dogs who are having a more complicated course. Those who do well from the get-go don't get written about as frequently or at great length -- if that makes sense. So please don't be downhearted when you read about pups who are having some problems. We have been witnesses to many, many success stories throughout the years!!

Marianne

mypuppy

04-24-2011, 03:38 PM

Hi Leah,
Welcome from me and my Princess, and to add to what Marianne has said, some of us come here but for a while to get some answers, knowledge, support in order to best help our fur babies. And there are others who hang on because of the long lasting loving and warm impressions made here which makes it the harder to leave for whatever reasons. You will quickly learn that despite of life's other priorities, this forum becomes a very special part of who you are and is added to one of our many priorities. Hang on please, even if you will just for a while. The special people behind this forum have given me the blessing of hope for my puppy's life after only thinking it was the end for her. You too will get there I hope, and feel at peace and bring back some joy in your life with your precious Maya. I pray for some guidance in order for you to experience that feeling of awe some of us have so delightedly felt. Tight hugs to you and a very Happy Easter.

Xo Jeanette and Princess

Maya

04-24-2011, 04:49 PM

Maya

04-24-2011, 05:00 PM

frijole

04-24-2011, 05:33 PM

Maya

04-25-2011, 05:58 AM

:) We all started on the journey the same way you did and we still remember it. Mine started about 6 yrs ago. It saved my dog's life and I am eternally grateful. Plus I met some wonderful people at the same time. Glad you joined and hope you have a similar experience. Kim
I'm glad I joined too! I'm starting to feel better about this whole drama already! For a while there, I thought I'd been handed the death sentence:(
Thankyou
Leah and Maya

addy

04-25-2011, 08:57 AM

We all feel that way in the beginning, that out pups days are numbered. We soon find out it is not really true.

We come here too when we are stressed and we need moral support or just need to vent.

You'll find a knowledgeable, understanding family. It is pretty special and the support is amazing

Glad you found us.
Addy, Koko and Zoe

littleone1

04-25-2011, 02:27 PM

Hi Leah,

Corky and I are sending you and Maya a belated welcome.

There's not much more that I can add to what others have already said. Everyone here has been so supportive and caring. They've helped Corky and me get through alot of things, even those that weren't related to cushings.

I'm glad you found us.

Terri

Casey's Mom

04-25-2011, 10:28 PM

Hi Leah, you will find a wonderful, knowledgeable family here.

My 15 year old girl has been on Lysodren for 2 years and is doing very well. Its true that once you have a handle on things we don't post that often but I always have questions regarding supplements, diets etc. I trust my family here and they have helped me so much. They helped me so much in the beginning because to be honest it was such a mystery to me.

Love and hugs,

Maya

04-27-2011, 05:04 PM

Hi everyone and thanks for the welcome!
So, we are up to the 5th day on 30mg of Vetoryl and so far so good. No nasty side effects, but it's hard to tell if it's doing any good due to Maya having very mild symptoms in the first place. I suppose all will be revealed when we have the follow up at the vet. By the way, my vet said that the first ACTH test would be done 30 days after starting Vetoryl. She wants me to take Maya in to see her at the two week mark just to look her over and see if everything is alright before giving her a heartworm pill and maybe her vaccination she was supposed to have around the time she was diagnosed with Cushings.
Do you think I should tell her about the two week testing? I mean...I don't want to tell her how to do her job. I'm sure she knows more about these things than I do. She is a good vet. I've been going to her for years.
Hugs, Leah and Maya

labblab

04-27-2011, 05:32 PM

Do you think I should tell her about the two week testing? I mean...I don't want to tell her how to do her job. I'm sure she knows more about these things than I do. She is a good vet. I've been going to her for years.
Hugs, Leah and Maya
Hi Leah,

If there is anything that you are wondering about or worrying about, I do believe that a conscientious vet would rather that you ask about it rather than worrying in silence. It is not so much a situation where you are telling her how to do her job, but instead a question that you're wanting to discuss with her so that you'll better understand Maya's treatment plan.

If it were me, I'd probably say something like, "I've had the chance to read the monitoring instructions published by the company that makes Vetoryl, and I see that they recommend performing an ACTH test within 10-14 days after starting on the medication. I'm just wanting to find out why you prefer to wait until the 30-day mark in Maya's case."

My guess is that it may relate to the fact that Maya is starting on a relatively low dose of the medication: 30 mg. for a dog that weighs approx. 40 pounds. Also, we know from our experience here that the cortisol level tends to continue to drift downward during the first 30 days of treatment. So your vet may feel as though there is little risk for Maya to be overdosed (especially since she wants to personally eyeball her at the two-week mark), and she'd rather save you some expense by waiting to test until Maya has really had a chance to stabilize at that dosage level. But I am only speculating, and it will be much better for you to find out your vet's actual thinking about this.

Over time, I have discovered that there remains a fair amount of variability in terms of specialists' preferences regarding trilostane dosing and monitoring protocol. So even though I always like to point folks in the direction of Dechra's published recommendations, I also realize that there may be reasons why specific vets handle specific patients in a manner that is somewhat different. For that matter, we've learned that Dechra's technical representatives are even offering out some revised, verbal recommendations that differ somewhat from their published instructions. So trilostane treatment appears to be continually evolving, but I think it is always a good idea to ask your vet's reasoning about any recommendations that don't correspond with more typical protocol.

Marianne

Maya

04-28-2011, 04:06 PM

Hi Marianne, you are probably right and I'm going to do exactly what she says. I will mention the two week testing when we go next week, but I think she knows what she is doing. I'm the doubting Thomas :o lol
I think I'm stating to notice a few postive changes in Maya. Her back legs seem to tremor much less and she seems a bit more perkier than what she has been lately. At day 6, the Vetorly finally kicks in! Yayyyyyy:D

addy

04-28-2011, 08:07 PM

Yeeahhhhh from me too!!!!!!!

Keep up the good work!!!

Hugs,
Addy

Maya

07-23-2011, 11:15 AM

Hi guys, finally back on-line! I started posting here a few months back when Maya was diagnosed with cushings and since then my usually boring, uneventful little life has been thrown into turmoil. You know one of those periods in life where all hell lets loose?Something negative effected every part of my life. I didn't even have access to internet anymore!!:( Well I have survived the storm and have managed to regain a little stability once again!
I hope you and your little furry babies are doing well and fine and I'm sorry for those who aren't. (I have very briefly checked in every now and again on friend's computers)
Here is my Maya's update.....so, after starting on 30mgs of Vetoryl in April (which was a very low dose considering that Maya weighs 20kg) We had to higher the dose after the first ACTH test. She is now on 2, 30mg capsules a day. One in the morn and one in the eve. To my great joy, that is enough. I just had the results back from the 2nd ACTH test and she is now in the norm. My vet told me I can now consider her cushings to be under control! However, I'm not too pleased with her complete blood test results...
Her ALP is SKY high and I am very upset about it. The norm is 20-150 U/L where as Maya's is 3719!!! Now, I don't know whether this is better or worse than before because the first set of blood tests she had, they couldn't even measure it, I have no levels to compare it to. Maybe it is slowly coming down because this time they managed to get a reading. My vet told me she had no idea why we couldn't get a reading the last time. She was the one who suggested maybe it was too high??
In Maya's last results, her ALT and AST were high, but they have now entered within the norm. This time, her sodium is a little high, so she is drinking bottled water now. I'm still on the faucet water by the way!:D Plus, the vet has prescribed Maya a liver protecter (it has milk thistle in it) other than that, what else can I do?? Will these levels eventually come down or what? Good grief...there is always something to worry about!! I'll have to calm down....I'm gonna give myself a bloody heart attack!!:eek:

Maya

07-31-2011, 09:49 AM

Hello there everyone:) I would like to ask what everyone is doing regarding annual shots? Not only is the vet reluctant to to give Maya hers, but I myself am too. however, I am giving Maya her monthly heartworm pill as there are tonnes of mosquitos here. As I posted above, Maya is stable now on the trilo, but her ALP is still very high (please read my above post) I do not want to put her liver under more stress! I know dogs who had their first shots as a pup and haven't been vaccinated since and they are doing fine. Infact one ole pup died just last week at the grand old age of 16. You know....sometimes I wonder if we as animal lovers are just sucked up into this huge money spinning business of 'health care' for our beloved animal. Surely Maya has developed enough antibodies by now?? What do you think??
Hugs, Leah and Maya

Squirt's Mom

07-31-2011, 10:11 AM

Hi Leah,

Many of us do not give the annual shots. Cushing's compromises the immune system and vets are starting, some anyway, to realize those shots should not be given to pups with weakened immune systems like ours have.

It is still a personal decision, tho. In some areas, I can see the need for rabies shots. Where we live there are many wild critters who carry this disease. If you board your baby, the bordetella may be required. Some states will accept titers, which is a test that tells how much of the previous vaccines are still present, as will some groomers and boarders.

So, IMHO, it is up to you and your vet to decide what Maya needs, if anything, and to determine what will be required from the places she goes, like a groomer.

Liver values can be elevated for any number of reasons - not all connected to Cushing's. We also have some pups who's cortisol is well controlled yet their liver values never returned to normal range. Some of us use Denamarin or Milk Thistle and/or SAMe to help the liver. This organ is amazing forgiving and has the ability to regenerate so if there is no reason to suspect a problem with the liver itself, I wouldn't worry over-much about those values. What has your vet said about them? Have they suggested anything to help bring the values down?

Hope this helps!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Maya

07-31-2011, 10:42 AM

Wow...thanks for the prompt reply Leslie!:) I had already decided not to vaccinate Maya anymore. I just wanted to know what everyone else was doing....
Maya does not go to the groomer because she is a total stinker! She does not like it at all. I do everything that needs to be done and that in itself is a job and a half. I have to chase her around the apartment to groom her. :D
My vet did say that many Cush dogs liver enzymes remain elevated- this is just part of the Cushings. Maya is now taking herbal liver support tablets, but apart from that , there is little we can do! I am trying not to obsess about it because I'm doing eveything I can to help her. It's now in the hands of the good Lord. She seems to be doing ok. Her water consumption is normal ( like I said above, she is now drinking bottled water as her sodium levels are a little high) She has her kibble in the morning and a good home cooked meal with no salt added in the evening. Her coat is lovely and shiney and I see an overall improvement in her physical appearance. However, her arthritis is more evident now she is on the trilo and she seems to be quite tired at times. I know about the trilo masking certain ailments, so I guess this is normal. The tiredness could be due to the heat...it's quite hot at the moment and plus the fact she is 12. I probably didn't realise just how much she slept before because I'm usually at work, but now I'm off on vaccation I suppose I'm watching her more. The poor dog is probably sick to death of me bugging her all the time! lol
Hug, leah and Maya

addy

07-31-2011, 12:42 PM

It sounds like things are pretty much under control so that is great news. I think you are lucky to have an IMS not wanting to vaccinate:)
I did finally get a rabies waiver from mine but she was a tad hesitant about it. She said since they do not do vaccinations at her office, she does not usually sign waivers, they don't even have the form:eek:

You are doing a great job.

Hugs,
Ady

labblab

07-31-2011, 12:53 PM

Hi Leah,

I want to "second" Leslie's recommendation that you consult with your vet as to which, if any, vaccinations would be in Maya's best interest right now. My personal belief is that there is no single answer that is correct for all dogs, including our Cushpups. I think that a vaccination program should be tailored to the health and risk factors for each individual dog.

I do think there is general agreement that vaccines should not be administered to dogs that are acutely ill. But just as is the case for humans, I believe that dogs suffering from chronic conditions and compromised immune systems may actually be at a greater risk for contracting certain serious illnesses, and thus may genuinely benefit from certain vaccinations -- such as the annual "human" recommendation that flu shots be given to seniors and people with chronic lung problems. However, for both humans and pets, the vaccines must be considered in light of the underlying health status of the patient -- for instance, only vaccines prepared from "killed" viruses may be suitable for patients with compromised immune systems. And it certainly makes no sense to routinely administer vaccinations for illnesses that may not pose any risk to your pet due to geographic or lifestyle factors.

Since vaccination is a complicated issue, I do encourage you to discuss it thoroughly with your vet. If my own dog had just been diagnosed with Cushing's and had not yet been stabilized on treatment, I too would be very leery about moving forward with vaccination at that time. However, further down the road, if my dog's cortisol level had been lowered to a therapeutic level and his/her appearance and behavior had normalized, I would want to discuss selective vaccination with my vet. I would want to weigh relative risks and benefits based on my pet's lifestyle and risks of exposure. To aid in your decision-making, here's a link that may be helpful. It is a summary of the current vaccination recommendations of the vet school at U.C. Davis:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/small_animal/internal_medicine/vaccination_protocols.cfm

Marianne

Maya

11-19-2011, 10:32 PM

Hello friends:) I am now living on your side of the pond (well most of you) I took Maya for her first American doctor's visit last week. Dear me...the prices here are a lot more than what I'm used to paying over in Italy!! I took her for a wellness visit (so they call it) just to get to know the vet and explain Maya's condition. He was a nice guy so, I made an appointment for Maya to have an ACTH test seeing that she was due one. I took her back a couple of days later and they took her into the back room. I wasn't allowed to go with her!!! I was not happy. I have always been with my dog during all of her tests, but they were having none of it. Is this normal? I want to see what they do to her...I think I'm entitled to! Another thing was is that they took blood from the vein in her neck! Every vet I've ever been to with all of my dogs has always taken blood from the vein in one of the dog's legs... I find this very strange....
Anyway, I got a call back from the vet today. Maya's medication has to be adjusted from 30mgs of trilostane TWICE a day to 35mgs TWICE a day because her post ACTH was 8.5. He actually said it could be adjusted to 40mgs, but I told him I wanted to tread very carefully with this kind of drug and that I wanted to increase with a lower dose first.
I am a little concerned because the day Maya had her ACTH test she skipped her medication because they gave me the appointment at 8am and she usually has her first dose around 8.30 to 9am. Seeing that the test needs to be performed 4 to 6 hours after the medication ,I asked the nurse ( on my prior visit) if it would be ok if she had her medication after the test and he said yes. I'm now wondering if it could have compromised the results of the test. She had not had any medication since 7pm the night before. I did mention this to the vet when he called with the results and he said that he didn't think it would have any effect at all. HE DIDN'T THINK!:confused: Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation? Maya's last test which was 4 months ago showed she was well within the normal range and doing fine on the dose she is now taking..... She has no cushing symtoms at all! I'm scared to death of this medicine and I'm not looking forward to increasing her dose:(
Hugs to you all
Leah and Maya

lulusmom

11-19-2011, 11:45 PM

Some vets let pet owners stay with their dogs during the acth stimulation test but in my experience, most don't. Drawing blood from the jugular is quite common. Both my ex gp vet and the internal medicine specialist have always taken blood via the jugular.

You have every right to be concerned about increasing Maya's dose and I am really glad that you are a great advocate for Maya. You've done your homework and I'd be asking the same question you are. I'm not sure why your vet was okay with doing a stim test 12 hours after the last dose nor why he would recommend any dose adjustment.

Dechra, the manufacturer of Vetoryl (Trilostane) recommends performing the acth stimulation test no more than 4 to 6 hours after the morning dose but here in the states, it's not unusual for specialist to want to do it in 3 to 5 hours after dosing. Trilostane has a short half life and it's effects can start waning any time after 8 or 9 hours so I would expect that Maya's cortisol to be higher at 12 hours than it would be a 4 to 6 hours. I also don't think it would be uncommon for a dog who is adequately controlled on twice daily dosing to have a post stim cortisol level of 8.5 ug/dl at 12 or 13 hours after dosing. If Maya were my dog, I wouldn't increase the dose but I would be annoyed with my vet for not following protocol, which, by the way, says that a post stim cortisol level as high as 9.1 ug/dl reading at 4 to 6 hours after dosing is acceptable as long as symptoms have resolved.

I'm not sure but I think one of our Admins (Labblab), who is very knowledgable of Trilostane, posted monitoring protocol for twice daily dosing but for the life of me, I can't find it. I'm hoping that she'll be dropping in to share her thoughts.

Glynda

Skye

11-20-2011, 12:23 AM

the information you will gain here is priceless, you will learn how to be the best advocate for your baby as possible. You will be given strength to help you focus, you will have all of us here to help you understand and digest all the things the vet tells you, we can help you ask valuable questions, and help you know the importance of clinically be observant of your baby. YES tons to absorb, tons, take notes, BUT be careful where you search for your info on line. some sources are much more reliable than others. Merck animal health books are great, and helpful links from here are great, rest assured, you are surround by the cush angels. I know they keep me going. and btw, welcome welcome, breathe easy now friend.....your in safe comforting company.....((((hugs))))

labblab

11-20-2011, 09:15 AM

Dear Leah,

I agree whole-heartedly with everything that Glynda has already said. And it took me some searching, myself, to find the monitoring protocol for twice-daily dosing to which I think Glynda is referring. It was being used by the vet of our member, "LacubriousDogs." I will give you the related quote, below, but with some comments. First, although the specialist who offers out this protocol has excellent credentials, it is not a protocol that I have seen endorsed by others. However, you'll see that per this alternative protocol, Maya's 12-hour results would fall well within the "acceptable" therapeutic range, with no dosing increase recommended. Lastly, in this case, the member's vet was intentionally following a specific protocol. In the case of your new vet, it doesn't appear as though any alternative protocol was being followed -- it seems as if he told you that the timing of the test simply doesn't matter, which is not true.

http://www.nvma.org/Dina/newsite/upload/file/Proceedings0610.pdf

"This dosage can be given once daily or divided twice daily (the manufacturer currently recommends once daily administration).
Recent studies, however, have shown that a significant number of patients can require twice daily trilostane to adequately control their hyperadrenocorticism. We generally start all patients on once daily therapy to increase client compliance and change to twice daily if necessary.

Evaluate the response to treatment based on resolution of clinical signs of hyperadrenocorticism and results of ACTH stimulation tests. Examine patient and perform an ACTH stimulation test at 10 days, 1 month, 3 months and every 3 to 6 months thereafter. Complete blood counts and serum chemistry profiles should be regularly evaluated. Perform ACTH stimulation testing 4hours after trilostane if it is being administered once daily and 8-10 hours after trilostane in dogs receiving it twice daily. Appropriate pre and post ACTH cortisol concentrations are between 2 and 6 ug/dl approximately 4 hours after trilostane in dogs on once daily therapy, and 5-10 ug/dl 8-12 hours after trilostane in dogs on twice daily therapy. In these situations trilostane is continued at the current dose. If the post ACTH serum cortisol concentration is >7 ug/dl (once daily dosing) or >10 ug/dl (twice daily dosing) increase the trilostane dose by 25-50%. If the post ACTH serum cortisol concentration is <2 ug/dl (once daily dosing) or <5 ug/dl (twice daily dosing), discontinue the trilostane for 7 days, decrease the dose by 25-50% and repeat an ACTH stimulation test in 10 days. If signs of hypoadrenocorticism occur, discontinue trilostane immediately, consider administering prednisone, and evaluate the dog with an ACTH stimulation test and a chemistry profile (including electrolytes) as soon as possible. During the first 6 months of therapy, at least 50% of dogs can be expected to require a change of dosage (usually anincrease)."

If it were me, I wouldn't increase Maya's dose, either. And for the next time around, I believe I would also look for a vet who is more knowledgeable about Cushing's monitoring. :(

Marianne

Maya

11-20-2011, 02:38 PM

Thank you ladies. I should have followed my instincts and booked a later appointment instead and given her her medication, but you kind of figure, well...they're the experts, so they should know. Only to find out later after spending loads of money that they didn't know at all:mad: I went to the Dechra website to print out the information on blood cortisol monitoring with an ACTH stimulation test where it clearly states 4-6 hours after dosing with Vetoryl. My husband is going to call him on Monday to talk about this. We could have a problem on our hands here as I think he may have already ordered the new higher dose of trilo and he will probably want to charge me for it. I want her tested again and I think that they should do it free of charge seeing that they were the ones who screwed up the test! I doubt that they will admit that they were wrong, but the way I see it, they were the ones who said that it was ok if she skipped her medication. They are supposed to know these things. I am paying them handsomely to know these things!I am unemployed at the moment!!! I am very upset about this whole first experience here and I miss the vet I had in Italy..even though she was no expert on Cushings ,she always went out of her way to find out the correct procedure and rightly so! This is going to hurt me financially, but
I'm thinking of dumping this vet and going to get her tested again somewhere else. Legally, can he make me pay for the medication if I don't pick it up from his office?
Hugs Leah and Maya

Cyn719

11-20-2011, 03:41 PM

Hi Leah - I read your other thread - so happy Maya did so good on the long trip - glad you are all safe and together!! xo

I have had meds to put up at vet and decided not to - they never gave me a problem

Maya

11-21-2011, 05:30 PM

Thanks Cindy!:) I have just been to the vets, but unfortunately it''s his day off today, so I left him a little something! I wrote to Dechra over the weekend and they answered my e.mail very promptly I must say:) They said that the testing was not correct and that I shouldn't increase the dose until I have the results of a reliable ACTH test. I made a copy of it along with some of the information from the vetoryl website that clearly tells of the procedure to follow. I don't know if it will make any difference to his opinion, but I thought it was good! He'll probably think I'm being some kind of smart arse:D His office manager was quick to point out that they do all their testing the same way and that there are many different ways of doing it.:confused: The vet will probably call me tomorrow. While I was there I asked for a copy of the results, so I am now able to tell you the exact results.
PRE ACTH CORTISOL 2.9
POST ACTH CORTISOL 8.3

ACTH REFERENCE RANGE:
PRE ACTH 2-9
POST ACTH 6-18
Bearing in mind that Maya was tested 14 hours after her last dose of Trilostane.
The vet wrote at the bottom of the page Post ACTH cortisol somewhat higher than recommended goal of 1.5 to 5.5:rolleyes:

lulusmom

11-21-2011, 08:41 PM

PRE ACTH CORTISOL 2.9
POST ACTH CORTISOL 8.3

ACTH REFERENCE RANGE:
PRE ACTH 2-9
POST ACTH 6-18
Bearing in mind that Maya was tested 14 hours after her last dose of Trilostane.
The vet wrote at the bottom of the page Post ACTH cortisol somewhat higher than recommended goal of 1.5 to 5.5:rolleyes:

Your vet's note made me roll my eyes too. That comment would only apply if Maya was symptomatic and the acth stimulation was done within 4 to 6 hours of the morning dose. I also cringed when I read that your vet’s office manager copped to routinely charging pet owners for meaningless acth stimulation tests. If that really is true, I fear for the other dogs he is treating.

I can’t imagine that your vet would think you are a smart arse for providing him with correct treatment and monitoring protocol as established by the manufacturer of the drug that he prescribed. If that information isn’t enough to convince him that he is absolutely wrong, how about a collection of reference material by well published, reknown endocrine specialists who are intimately familiar with Vetoryl, including appropriate dosing and proper timing of acth stimulation tests. These esteemed specialists lecture worldwide on diagnosing and treating cushing's. Please see below:

Dr. Edward Feldman – Comparing therapies for canine hyperadrenocorticism. See bottom of page 2 and page 3 for section entitled Medical therapy using trilostane
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=460965&sk=&date=&pageID=3

Dr. Mark Peterson – PDF file – Vetoryl (Trilsotane) Another Choice for Treating Dogs with Hyperadrenocorticism

633

Dr. David Bruyette – Video discussing Trilostane dosing and monitoring

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Endocrinology/Trilostane-dosing-and-monitoring-recommendations-4/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/567360?contextCategoryId=39607

I think you will be on solid ground when you advise your vet that you do not wish to increase Maya's dose or pay for the new rx he has ordered. I also think you are more than justified in asking for a another acth stimulation test, free of charge, and done in accordance with proper protocol.

I think you are doing an amazing job of advocating for Maya. Keep up the good work!

Glynda

Skye

11-22-2011, 02:42 AM

you go!!!! whootwhoot
way to be a advocate for you pet baby!!!!! proud of you for standing strong and knowledgable
i would be tempted to write to local newspaper editoral, might make for some interesting articles and feedback huh

pupdog

11-22-2011, 09:19 AM

Yep the vet definitely did the test wrong, you are supposed to fast the dog for so many hours before the test too, no food.

also you are supposed to check your dogs kidney function before starting trilostane, its better to be safe than sorry, if any of the values are even close to being borderline I would stop trilostane permanently and not look back. BUN, creatinine, and phosphorous, as well as urine specific gravity should be tested. don't trust the vet to interpret the lab results, his idea of an acceptable risk might be reckless. some dogs are better off not having their cushings treated at all.

Squirt's Mom

11-22-2011, 10:13 AM

Hi Leah,

Fasting isn't necessary for the ACTH but some vets prefer to do it that way, especially if other blood work is going to be drawn at the same time. However, the timing of the ACTH is critical.

I did more than roll my eyes at their comment that they do all their testing this way. :eek: I have to wonder how many of their cush patients are on a dose much too high based on invalid test results. :eek: It stuck me as rather lazy, to tell the truth, as well as irresponsible.

You are well within your rights to refuse the medicine they ordered for you and well within your rights to demand an ACTH that is correctly performed at no charge to you. ;) You also have the right to order the meds from another source if you can find them cheaper than what the vet is charging for them. ;) Tho some vets get rather snippy about this. :rolleyes:

You're doing a great job!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

labblab

11-22-2011, 04:18 PM

Leah,

Regarding fasting and the ACTH, I'm going to take what Leslie has said one step further. For dogs being treated with trilostane, we are now being told that it is important that they receive food along with their trilostane dose prior to having an ACTH. Because trilostane is absorbed most efficiently when there is food in the stomach, a fasted ACTH result will be an inaccurate indicator of the cortisol level that is normally associated with the trilo dosing on days when meals are fed. This also means that trilostane should ALWAYS be given along with a meal.

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/whats-best-protocol-for-acth.html

Preparing for the ACTH stimulation test: Does the animal need to be fasted?

The dog or cat does not have to be fasted overnight, and lipemia does not appear to “clinically’ affect serum cortisol values. However, having a nonlipemic sample may be better in some situations, especially if serum cholesterol or triglycerides are being measuring on same sample.

Remember that the ACTH stimulation test is the most useful test for monitoring dogs being treated with trilostane (Vetoryl) or mitotane (Lysodren) see my blog entitled, Diagnosing Cushing's disease: Should the ACTH stimulation test ever be used? Both medications are fat-soluble drugs and must be given at time of meals, or the drugs will not be well absorbed.

With trilostane, it’s extremely important to give the morning medication with food, and then start the ACTH stimulation test 3 to 4 hours later.

Fasting these dogs on the morning in which the ACTH stimulation test is scheduled should be avoided since it invalidates the test results.

When a dog ‘s food is withheld, the absorption of trilostane from the gastrointestinal tract is decreased. This leads to low circulating levels of trilostane, resulting in little to no inhibition of adrenocortical synthesis. Therefore, serum cortisol values will higher when the drug is given in a fasted state than when it is given with food.

The higher basal or ACTH-stimulated cortisol results could prompt one to unnecessarily increase the daily trilostane dose. That misjudgment may lead to drug overdosage, with the sequelae of hypoadrenocorticism and adrenal necrosis in some dogs.

Marianne

Maya

01-29-2012, 05:50 PM

Hello there!:) Hope everyone is well and doing fine. I haven't been on here in a while due to.... just dealing with life's ups and downs and to be honest trying to stay away from the computer for a while. I thought it was about time I gave you all an update.
The last time I posted, I was having issues with my rather inexperienced vet. He didn't seem to know the correct procedure of the ACTH test. He tested Maya 14 hours after her last dose of Trilo. He had told me to withhold her medication that morning because she was not allowed to eat before her ACTH test. So, of course when he called me 3 days later to give me the results here cortisol levels were sky high! He immediately started to talking about increasing her medication. Well, my whole being screamed no to this! I had that awful feeling that something was wrong, seeing that she seemed quite well and hadn't demonstrated any Cushings symptoms at all. I decided to do some research and then had everything confirmed by some great members on this site. I spoke to the vet and he agreed that we should do the test again. He charged me half price:rolleyes: I think he should have done it free of charge!!:mad: Anyway, Marianne, I took your advice and fed Maya that morning and gave her her medication. She was tested 4 hours later. This time her results were perfect! Good thing I listened to my instincts and refused to increase her medication, huh? Wouldn't you think that a vet would do a little bit of research in an area in which he is not familiar with?? They charge enough money!!
Maya is almost 13 now and I can see she is starting to show it...this makes me sad... I wish she could stay with me forever. Before getting married last year, she had been my only family for years. I want to do the very best I can to keep her happy and comfortable, which leads me to asking you all for some advice. Maya has had arthritis in her legs for a couple of years now, she has not been in any considerable amount of pain. Before she was diagnosed with Cushings, she had been on a couple of courses of anti inflammatory drugs because she was sometimes limping during the cold, damp winter months. This usually cleared up in a couple of weeks, so the vet stopped the meds and everything was fine. She is limping again, usually when she gets up after lying down for a while. It can be pretty bad at times, but it subsides after walking around for a bit. I doubt this has anything to do with the weather this time because we are now living in Sunny San Diego and she does not have to endure sub zero temperatures anymore. I'm wondering if this is just stiffness or if she is in any kind of pain. She does not cry out or make any ailing noises, so I'm wondering if pain medication is really necessary. How is one supposed to know? I'm worried sick about having to give her more medication because Maya's liver is not in very good shape at all!. Her last blood work showed that although her liver enzymes had pretty much gone back to normal, her alkp was still over 3000! I'm terrified of causing more liver damage, however, I will not hesitate to do what I have to if she is in evident pain. I'm giving Maya milk thistle, glucosamine condroiton and cod liver oil. What do you think??
Another thing is that Maya suffers from loose stools quite often. I don't think it is her food, otherwise she would have them all the time. She eats Buffalo blue taste of the wild, it's grain free. I put a bit of hot water to soften the kibble as her teeth are not what they used to be. I mix this with a bit of boiled chicken...just because she is spoiled and won't eat her food without it!;) Usually her stool is nice and solid in the morning, but the evening one is sometimes 'sloppy'. Not everyday, but about three times a week. Could this just be due to her medication?
Thanks for any advice!:)

Harley PoMMom

01-29-2012, 07:33 PM

Hi Leah,

Welcome back!! :)

I would switch from cod liver oil to a fish oil, fish oils have almost double the amount of total EPA and DHA than cod liver oil per same size supplement capsule.

If Maya is limping, then I would assume she is in some kind of pain. Dogs can hide their pain very well so I would ask your vet about some type of pain management.

The ALP is not as liver specific as the ALT, how is Maya's ALT numbers? Some cush-dog's ALP, even when cortisol is well controlled, will continue to be elevated.

It is so good to hear from you again and I hope to hear from you soon!

Love and hugs,
Lori

addy

01-29-2012, 07:43 PM

Hi

It is so good to hear from you and get an update.

I was just wondering when was the last time Maya had her cortisol tested?

Others will be along soon to comment about her liver levels. Could you post the results of any recent blood work, just the abnormal levels and what the normal range was?

As we lower their cortisol sometimes we uncover unknown problems that were perhaps being helped with the higher cortisol, arthritis being one of them.

The loose stools may be from the Trilostane but it seems odd to me it would be the evening stool and a few times a week but I am sure others will be along to comment on that as well. Colitis is a catch all phrase that vets use for intestinal problems. You will sometimes see a normal poo in the morning and then they go down hill from there.

Hang in there.
hugs,
addy

Cyn719

01-29-2012, 10:15 PM

Hi Welcome back! Sorry Maya is having problems - I am so glad you didnit listen to the vet and listen to yourself!! I deatlt with the same thing - Pennys vet didnt know about cushings and put her on a high dose of trilo and almost killed her - thank God I came here and the cush angels her got me through it and that is why Penny is with us today:) At the present time Penny has been off trilo sinced Sept and has alot of arthritis Penny takes

Dasaquin
Adequan Shots
tramadol for pain at night
Was on rimadyl now using previcox
Was on gabapentin for the pain seem to help somewhat but just make her was to tired and she sleep to much - but it does work very good in other dogs

I hesitated with the rimadyl and previcox because of kidney and liver problems but right now at 12 years olds I want her to be comfortable and have good quality of life - since deciding how the previcox is working compared to the rimadyl - we just started it last week. Also just started fish oil. The cold does seem to make her worse - we are in New England -Rhode Island - but she does still have lots of problems in the summer also.Penny also has her bouts with the soft poops - somedays its fine somedays its not - I just try to give her the pumpkin or rice and burger or chicken till shes back to normal. I hope you find something that helps Mays feel better - I know how you feel - hate to see them like this.

hugs to both of you:) xo

Maya

01-31-2012, 04:05 PM

Hi there ladies, thanks for your input!:) Maya had her ACTH test just a month ago and it's fine. Maya's last blood work showed that her liver levels had gone down. They were in the normal range.
GPT-ALT U/L was 89 normal range is (2-100)
GOT-AST U/L was 36 normal range is (<80)
ALP U/L was 3719 :eek: normal range is (20-150)
When Maya was first diagnosed with Cushings, the ultrasound showed that her liver was enlarged and there were signs of damage. The liver had a lumpy appearance and there were some kind of lesions ( sores) I don't know how to put it. The vet took a needle biopsy from one of these lesions to test for cancer and it came back negative. The result indicated that these lesions were cortisol induced.
I was just scared of causing even more damage, but I am not going to see her in pain. I wish she could just tell me how she feels. We always moan when we are in pain. How is it possible that they remain silent...bless them...
Thanks again girls I really appreciate your advice!
Leah and Maya

lulusmom

01-31-2012, 04:20 PM

Hi Leah,

You mentioned that Maya's last acth stim test was perfect. Can you please post the actual numbers for us? I'm sorry to see that the ALKP is still so high; however, we do know that sometimes it takes a while to see great improvement. I'd definitely give Maya liver support like milk thistle and/or SAMe. Have all of Maya's cushing's symptoms resolved?

Glynda

Maya

01-31-2012, 05:15 PM

Hiya Glynda, I still need to pick up a copy of the ACTH test results. The vet called me with the results so, I haven't actually seen a hard copy yet. I'll do that later. The results of the blood work she had done were from a while back,3 months ago I think. I'm going to make an appointment later on today as I'd like her to have another blood test to see if that ALKP has come down a bit. Maya's first set of blood tests (the one that indicated she had Cushings-almost a year ago) showed the ALKP levels to be off scale. They couldn't even get a reading, so even though it is still very high, I'm presuming that it has actually come down a little. I've been giving Maya milk thistle for quite a while now. She's been getting about 150mgs twice a day sprinkled over her food. Do you think that's enough? She weighs 44 pounds.
Maya doesn't display any of the classic Cushing's symptoms, so this, together with her lab results seem to indicate that her cortisol is under control. I will post the exact results when I pick them up.
I have noticed that Maya is slowing down a bit and I suspect the arthritis in her legs may be bothering her, but hey...she's almost 13. I just want her to be comfortable. Do you think her liver will be able to handle pain medication? I know that these drugs are very strong and hard on the liver....I'm afraid....:(
I like your new avatar by the way!:)
Hugs, Leah and Maya

lulusmom

01-31-2012, 07:27 PM

Hi again,

I'm really glad to hear that Maya is no longer displaying the usual cushing's symptoms. All in all, it sounds like she is doing well. Unfortunately, the stiffness and achiness of arthritic joints is something a good number of our senior dogs have to deal with once we get their cortisol under control. I personally try to stay away from the NSAIDs if at all possible and have had good luck with Cosequin but there have been times when my Jojo needed Metacam to relieve the pain.

I think your plan is a good one and I'll be interested to see if Maya's ALKP has continued to drop. IMO, Maya's liver should be able to handle the pain meds. As Lori already mentioned, ALT is a liver specific enzyme that is triiggered in response to liver cell necrosis. That's called liver disease. Maya doesn't have a diseased liver, she has an enlarged liver with changes in the appearance of the cells due to the accumulation of glycogen caused by excess cortisol. This is all reversable with treatment of the underlying disease. As I understand it, cortisol, in excess, screws with all kinds of metabolic functions, In the case of the liver, it speeds up the synthesis of glycogen so it makes the liver work harder but it doesn't kill any liver cells. It is the glycogen accumulation that causes the liver to enlarge and causes the shape and appearance of the liver cells. I double checked my understanding and feel comfortable letting it stand. I found the following quote at: http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/digestive/c_dg_vacuolar_hepatopathy

Vacuolar hepatopathy occurs when liver cells (hepatocytes) undergo reversible vacuolar changes due to glycogen accumulation.

Thanks for complimenting my avatar. I changed it before the holidays and can't believe we're only one day away from February and I still have my Santa Paws as my avatar. The little guy in the pic is Jasper, my little Maltese with congestive heart failure and collapsing trachea. Both conditions are deteriorating a lot faster than I am prepared to deal with. If I could wiggle my nose and swap his problems for cushing's, I'd do it in a heartbeat. :(

Keep up the good work, mom!

Glynda

Cyn719

01-31-2012, 10:28 PM

Leah

I know how you feel about previcox metacam and rimadyl - I feel the same way - they scare me but I tried to take Penny off of them and she got really bad with out them so I had to put her back on - I know how difficult it is to tell how much pain they are in - yes if ony they could tell us - but Penny does groan very loud - so I am assuming she is in pain - its mostly at night - its a very hard decision to make but with Penny I felt with her I really had no choice - if the meds make her able to get around then I had to chose the meds --- believe me it is such a hard decision to make - we only want whats best for our babies:)

hugs to you and Maya xoxo

Maya

02-04-2012, 02:34 PM

Good morning everyone. May I ask a question? Is it ok to give Maya pepcid acid reducer and if so, how much is the recommended dose? I sometimes get the impression that she may feel a bit sick. She does not vomit, she just seems to have a bit of a pained expression and she mopes about as if she has done something wrong! It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, it's in the morning. For example, this morning she didn't eat her food straight away. I got the impression that she wanted to because she kept going up to sniff at it. Eventually she ate some of it. She is always ready to eat her evening meal with enthusiasm, so I'm just wondering if she may have a bit of an upset stomach in the morning...maybe due to the Vetoryl. I seem to remember reading about people giving their dogs acid reducer, but I can't find any of those posts. I still need to go to the vets....just waiting for some money!:(
Many thanks,
Hugs from Leah and Maya

Squirt's Mom

02-04-2012, 02:44 PM

Hi Leah,

You can give Pepcid AC (Famotidine) - not the other kinds of Pepcid, just the AC. Be sure to ask your vet before giving any. You can also use Tagamet (Cimetidine). Is she licking the air or her lips in the mornings? You might try giving her a tiny treat at bedtime and see if that helps.

Is Maya taking her Trilo (Vetoryl) with food?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Maya

02-04-2012, 03:02 PM

Thanks for prompt reply Leslie!:) Yes, Pepcid AC, that's the brand name I was talking about.Is one 20mg pill alright or should I give her half? Maya always has her Trilo with food. I haven't seen her licking the air or her lips though. Is that a sign of stomach upset? I don't even know if it is her stomach which is the problem. She'll eat treats whenever she's offered them... it's just this occasional reluctance to eat her morning meal which she does eventually eat.
Hugs from Leah and Maya

Squirt's Mom

02-04-2012, 03:10 PM

From http://www.walkervalleyvet.com/otc-meds.htm

Tagamet/Pepcid-AC

weight amount
less than 20 lbs - ¼ tablet
20-60 lbs - ½ tablet
over 60 lbs - 1 whole tablet

Maya

02-04-2012, 03:18 PM

You are a star! Thanks very much!;)

Maya

02-08-2012, 02:32 PM

Maya is not well, so we are going to the vet at 5pm today.She didn't seem to want to eat yesterday morning, but she did eat when I sat with her and fed it to her. She will eat treats no problem! My husband and I went out shopping and when we came back she was acting strange ...almost as if she had done something she shouldn't have. At first I thought she may have pooped in the house, but after checking all of the rooms I saw that this was not the case. She did eat her evening meal, but was reluctant to go out for a walk. This may have been because it had been raining and it was cold and wet and damp outside. She does not want to stay by us or she puts up with us for a few minutes and then moves away. This morning she is still not right. She wouldn't eat her food until I sat there and fed it to her. She has moments when she seems quite perky and then goes back into this kind of 'miserable mode' I can't understand what's wrong...maybe its her arthritis or her stomach. She always eats her evening meal with enthusiasm! Her poop is fine..it's been nice and solid. I started giving her probiotics about 3 weeks ago and her stools have improved. I'm worried about her!:(
Leah and Maya

Cyn719

02-08-2012, 02:50 PM

Leah

Maya sounds like Penny. She has her perky moments then she goes off into like a dazed stage?? She hasn't been eating in the AM but eats in the PM and usually has that ummmm like worried look on her face. She does have arthritis and lumbar issues and they are assuming a pituitary tumor so we don't know if it's the pain or vet said could be dementia?? Right now she is on rimadyl for arthritis and tramadol at bedtime for pain. Good luck at appt. I will check back to see how she made out. Hang in there!:)

Hugs xoxoxo

Maya

02-09-2012, 01:44 PM

Morning ladies! So, the vet can't find anything wrong with Maya. He gave her physical examination and everything seems to ok. every morning over the last couple of days Maya has been off her food in the mornings and acting generally depressed. She would actually eat if I sat there and fed her by hand. He told me to stop her Trilo for a couple of days to see if it is that is the culprit. He is going to call me on Saturday to discuss what next...maybe another ACTH test is in order. Her last one was just under two months ago. Gosh this Cushings is cripplingly expensive! He does not want to give her any pain medication for her arthritis just in case she has an upset stomach at the moment. I can't understand what is the matter with her because she is fine in the afternoon!It's just the morning! I suggested a blood test, because the vet didn't seem to come up with that idea on his own, so she had a full blood count done and I should be getting the results of that back later on today. When my husband comes home from work I'll be going to pick up hard copies of her last ACTH test plus the blood work she's just had done. I had to take the last appointment last night and the receptionist had to go early. That's why I wasn't able to get them yesterday. I will post the results later!
Hugs from Leah and Maya

Harley PoMMom

02-09-2012, 01:53 PM

Some dogs do have an upset tummy in the morning because it is empty. Maybe giving Maya a snack right before bedtime might help.

Looking forward to seeing her test results.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Maya

02-09-2012, 03:09 PM

Hi Lori!:) Maya eats at around 7pm, so she already eats quite late. However, I will give it a try.The vet seems to think it might be her cortisol levels and after this morning I'm starting to think he maybe onto something here. He said that her Cortisol may have dropped too much, so taking his advice I stopped her Trilo yesterday and this morning, for the first time in ages, Maya went on a proper morning walk. When we got back, she ate her meal without any prompting at all!
To be honest, I didn't believe it was her cortisol level , but I'm not so sure now. If it was her cortisol Level why would she act and eat normally in the evenings? Surely she would feel like crap all the time! Obviously, I will have her tested if I HAVE to, but I'm trying to avoid unnecessary testing because the cost is crippling us. I'm unemployed at the moment. I've spent $700 in two months, just on tests!:eek:
Hugs, Leah and Maya

Harley PoMMom

02-09-2012, 03:17 PM

Trilostane has a short half life and its enzyme blocking abilities start to diminish after 8 to 12 hours. Peak Trilostane concentrations are seen within 1.5 hours after the dose.

Dose it seem like Maya's loss of appetite is 1 or 2 hours after her morning dose?

Maya

02-09-2012, 03:45 PM

She woudn't want her morning meal at all, so her lack of appetite came before she had her morning dose of trilo. I always give her her medication after her meal, on a full stomach.

Maya

08-05-2012, 06:27 PM

Hi guys! Haven't been on for a while and I'm sorry about that. Hope you are all doing well and managing to soldier on through all the ups and downs with your little furry friends.
I, myself am not and I am almost on the verge of giving up. I can't stand this much longer. I cannot stand to see Maya go through all this and I am thinking of ending it all. This Cushings is such a cruel illness and one that most vets understand very little about. They all tell you they have experience and then when something goes wrong they obviously have no idea what to do and end up referring you to their "very knowledgeable " colegue who knows even less. We have been fiddling around with Maya's Trilostane dosage for about 6 months now. Early July she started displaying the classic symptoms of overdosage even though she is on quite a low dose (32 in the morning and 32 in the evening total of 64 per day). She had practically a flat line response to the ACTH test she had done in June
Pre cortisol was 3.2 post was 3.5. So we halved her dose to 32 once a day. She continued to be very unsteady on her feet. She falls over if she sneezes. She can't seem to walk in a straight line-she goes off to the right. She is peeing constantly in the house. She a vacant look in her eyes, no appetite, drinking very little, very lethargic (not wanting to go out on walks, very sad and depressed looking.Zero enthusiasm for anything. Shivering, shaking, slow heartbeat. She did have a urine infection diagnosed end of June and was put on antibiotics for two weeks. She continued to to pee all the time-squatting, straining with just a few drops or nothing coming out. So I took her back for another urine test+culture. It came to light that she still had the infection, so she was given another type of antibiotics for three weeks. We finished the course and she still had UTI symptoms after a total of one month on antibiotics!! We went back to the vet had another ACTH test because he seemed to think the urinary problems could be related to her Cushings. ACTH on the 7th of July came back- pre cortisol 3.3 Post 2.4. He was happy with the results but the dog is still ill. We are baffled because her ACTH tests seem to be with in the norm. He said that she could be just weak from all the medication and after all she is 13 and a half years old, but I think there's more to it than that. I took her back to the vet on Friday and he was at a loss as what to do. He told me to stop her trilostane which I did. I had blood work done and got the results yesterday. Her ALKP are through the roof at 2405!!! reference range is 10-150 Her Cholesterol is at a high of 366- reference range is 112-328. She called me and told me to stop Trilostane. All other results are in the norm-electrolytes included. At this point he told me to monitor her carefully over the weekend and he will call me Monday morning to set up an appointment with his more experienced colleague. He wants an ultrasound done because he thinks something is going on with the adrenal glands and all this is above him (as he put it) To be honest....it is getting to be above me too. I have spent a grand and a half in the last two months and I can't afford it anymore.I'm unemployed. I've been spending my emergency savings. Wouldn't it be kinder to put her to sleep rather than traumatize with all this treatment? She has been a shadow of what she was. She has been very sick doggy. I just don't know what to do. My heart is heavy and I can't stop crying. She has had a slight improvement since I stopped her medication. She is eating and seems more interactive. There was a bit of tail wagging going on yesterday and she wanted to go out for a walk, so we did and she managed it quite well. Can someone give my any ideas and advice. I just don't know what to do anymore.

frijole

08-05-2012, 09:39 PM

First off - I am so glad you came back to talk. You sound like you need our companionship.. you shouldn't be crying by yourself.. we'll cry with you ok?!! It is very strange that after cutting the dose in half her acth actually went down lower. How long was she on the lower dose before you did the last test?

I'm glad you took her off because it should be interesting to see if she improves. Some dogs need to have their cortisol levels higher than the target range. Maya might be one of those.

While the alk phos level is high - my dog Haley's were high for a very long time (in the 2000's) but she lived to be 16 1/2 and died of old age. So don't fret about that reading. If you haven't you might try some milk thistle. I bought capsules at Walgreens or wherever and put it on her food. It did take her enzymes to less than 800.

But really, I think what you are doing right now is the best test to see if its the trilostane and her low cortisol - all the signs are there. Only thing is - did she have the urination issues while at these lower levels?

We all know how much the testing costs etc. I'm attaching this link in case it can help you in any way. Sending hugs, Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

Maya

08-05-2012, 11:28 PM

God bless you for answering my post with such kindness and so quickly, Kim. I do tend to bottle things up and isolate myself when faced with life's dramas! You are right, this time I do need companionship.....
Maya has had these urinary issues since she was diagnosed with Cushings. Sometimes worse than others, so it's hard to tell, but it does seem to worsened with the lower cortisol levels. She has always peed more than your average female dog. She'd stop every few feet and pee- just spotting. I took her for urine tests and there was never any sign of infection. We were at the park about a month and a half ago and she peed blood. I took to the vet and she tested positive for a UTI cause by e-coli. She has had antiobotics for a month and is still acting as if she has UTI. Squatting and peeing obsessively -every few minutes, of course sometimes nothing comes out!
Maya was on the lower dose of trilostane for about 3 weeks before we did the last test. The vet seems to think her adrenal glands are not working properly..... It's weird because she has addisons symptoms yet her ACTH result are still within the norm and her blood work is ok, well apart from the ALKP and cholesterol. She has eaten and drunk well today, but she's still staggering all over the place.
Hugs, Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-06-2012, 01:48 AM

I think some dogs are like that with the peeing every few feet thing. An alpha trait maybe? Mine does that too. If she doesn't get enough pee stops, she Will have an accident or have to go out fairly soon after she's just been out.
I seem to have gotten the impression that when they are doing the staggering thing, quite often, it is a low cortisol situation but I'm by no means an expert, just a reader here. So I hope that the ones who have gone through all this can jump in with some ideas.
It is so scary though to see our babies going through stuff like this and not know what to do to help them. After all that is our first instinct to "make it all better".
Hang in there. Hopefully this will get figured out soon.

HUGS,
Sharlene

Maya

08-06-2012, 01:45 PM

Thank you Sharlene. I'll be definitely be keeping her off her meds for while. I have seen improvement since she stopped taking them.It's been 3 days now and she seems to have perked up a bit. The vet is going to call me today to discuss what to do next. I only hope this problem resolves itself just by withholding the trilostane for a while, however I am going to seek a second opinion in the next couple of days. I am trying not to obsess too much because she is an old doggy and has had a good life, but still........
It really does make a difference by being in contact with people who are going through the same "song and dance" One can draw strength from that...
Hugs, Leah and Maya

Jenny & Judi in MN

08-06-2012, 02:29 PM

Leah I'm so glad you are seeing some improvement. I didn't reply to your original post cause I had no clue what to say. But improvement is good and if she is happy then that is all that matters. hang in there!

Squirt's Mom

08-06-2012, 03:05 PM

Hi Leah,

I, too, am so glad you came "home" to talk. Please don't worry in silence, honey. We are here for you any time no matter what.

My first thought is that Maya may simply be one of those pups who cannot handle Trilo. Some can't; some can't handle Lyso. Thank goodness we have options! ;) So I am very glad to hear the vet FINALLY said to stop it. Do you have any prednisone on hand? That, plus stopping the Trilo, would have been a great first step when she first started showing signs. :rolleyes: Trilo parents need to have pred on hand just like Lyso parents do.

I so understand the financial stresses but it might be worthwhile to get a second opinion from an IMS if she doesn't continue to improve off the Trilo. They can look at Maya's recent tests and so forth and hopefully not have to do a lot more. If she does continue to improve, then I would be forced to look very hard at starting her back on the Trilo. ;)

Squirt's ALKP has been running 10X normal and it has been worrying me to pieces tho her vets just shrug. :rolleyes: I took her to her IMS last week to have full labs and the UTK panel done so we could look at her liver values more closely (they go into more depth than her GP vet). Her IMS explained to me that ALKP was made by LIVING cells and that in some cush pups these cells get turned on and can't turn off. So they are constantly making ALKP. He said when the other liver values - AST, ALT, GGT - were elevated they were made by dying cells. Then we could worry and not before. So he helped ease my mind and I hope his words will help ease yours as well.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

lulusmom

08-06-2012, 03:26 PM

Hi Leah,

I am so sorry that Maya has had six months of continued bad experiences with Trilostane, despite having what most of us consider stellar acth stimulation test results. You've been a superb mom and have done everything right but sometimes no matter how hard you work at it, some things are simply out of your control. Maya may just be one of those dogs who doesn't do well on Trilsotane and/or lower cortisol.

I don't know Maya's breeding but at 13 1/2 years old, I'd say she's probably close to or maybe even passed her life expectancy. I have smaller dogs who are supposed to live longer but all are medically challenged. I hope that evenually they all do as well under my care as Maya has under yours. If Maya were my dog and her quality of life continued to improve off of Trilostane, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason to put her back on it or put her through any more testing.

The goal of treatment is not to cure but to remedy symptoms, symptoms which are usually more of a problem for the pet owner than the dog. If Maya's symptoms aren't a problem for you, then... Lots of people ask what would happen if they don't treat their dog and we provide them with a list of really bad things that can happen. The fact of the matter is that a cushdog, even an untreated one at Maya's age, is more likely to die of old age or something else before cushing's takes them. The exception to this rule is if a cushdog has an expanding pituitary macro tumor. If I knew for certain my dog had an expanding macro tumor, I personally would quit treating regardless of age. Dogs with macrotumors benefit from the anti-inflammatory properties of high cortisol.

These are my opinions only and there may be a lot of other members who disagree, in which case I hope they chime in.

Glynda

P.S. Leslie has posted while I was typing and see that she and I think alike. :D

Maya

08-06-2012, 03:32 PM

@ Jenny & Judy-Thank you for your encouragement..I know what you mean I am the same way. It's hard making comments when you are totally in the dark yourself. Thank God we have the " Wise Elders" ;) of the forum who have seen and heard almost everything! They have a wealth of knowledge gained through experience and probably know more than those bloody vets do! For this I am forever thankful...
Although there are similarities, Cushings is one of those illnesses where every patient reacts in his/her own way to the treatment. For some dogs it's a rocky ride from beginning to end, others have little glitches here and there and some have no problems at all. Some don't even respond to treatment.

Update to all-I talked to the vet on the phone this morning and I told him that I had seen an improvement in Maya since the medication was stopped, so we both agreed to keep her off her medication for a few days and he will call back on Wednesday to see how she is doing.
I will be deciding the course of action to take seeing that the vets do not seem to know much about this Cushings disease. Never mind a few days off medication, I was thinking more like a week or two, followed by an ACTH test + blood work. I'm going to take one day at a time and see how things go. I'm sorry but I cannot go down that road of specialists etc. It's nice to see that little tail wagging again.
Love to all, Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-06-2012, 03:49 PM

Tail waggin, happy doggie is as good a sign as any as to how they feel. I use it constantly. Mine's tail drops down to the ground if she is not feeling well, scared or anything "off". As soon as normal returns the tail is back up top over her back, bouncing around like a big feather fluffer.
We all can only do what we can do. (I Do hope that makes sense) and you do what you feel is right for your baby. :)

Hugs!!
Sharlene

Maya

08-06-2012, 07:10 PM

Dear Glynda and Leslie, thank you both for your kind replies. It means so much to me...God bless you both!
Glynda, I agree whole heartedly with your post. I love my little dog dearly and all I want is for her to be comfortable and happy. She won't get in the car anymore for fear of going to the vets! It distresses her so much and of course this in turn causes stress for my husband and I! It's a dreaded experience for all of us!:(
Like I said in my last post I'm just keeping her off meds for the time being and I'm leaning towards not treating her anymore, but that's not "set in stone" yet. You know, if she were a lot younger I'd probably have a different view of things....
The vet is talking about putting her back on them sometime next week, but I am not having any of it. After the scary symptoms she's been displaying I don't think that a week off meds is nearly enough! I have a feeling that something else may going on too, so maybe it's best to let nature take it's course.
Maybe she does have an expanding macro tumour or something because I do suspect something neurological is going on too. She shakes her head sometimes and it makes her dizzy and her right eye looks a little off center. She seems disorientated at times and off balance. Yeah...I could have all kind of scans and tests done...but then what?? It's not as if surgery is an option! More drugs?? I think she's been on enough. It's like throwing rocks at the stars...I mean what do you start testing for on a 13 and a half year old dog? She's a border collie/pointer mix, by the way -weighing 43 pounds. The vets would let you spend thousands, and for what?? To get another few months to a year out of her (if I'm lucky)? Hard as it is, you've just got to let them go. Even though we are not quite at that stage yet, I am beginning to prepare myself for the dreaded event.
She was "lent" to me by God during the most shittiest time of my life and she'll have to go back to him. Maybe she will be sent to help someone else....
Leslie, the vet has not mentioned prednisone probably because she is not clinically in addisons. Her levels are well within the normal range. It's quite baffling!
One again thank you both for your support and concern. You are both sweet hearts. I will keep you updated....
Lot's of love from Leah and Maya

Maya

08-06-2012, 07:22 PM

Squirt's Mom

08-06-2012, 07:28 PM

P.S. Leslie has posted while I was typing and see that she and I think alike.

:eek: GLYNDA!! :eek: You can't put stuff like that out in public! People really will think you're nuts! :p

Leah, it sounds to me as if you have a good handle on things - meaning Maya is the first concern. If she is doing well with no meds, let her carry on and enjoy every minute you can with her as I have not one doubt she will enjoy hers with you. ;) It's all those precious moments with light in their eyes, wags in their butts, and grins on their faces that matter the most, and I pray you and Maya have many of those moments ahead of you yet.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

frijole

08-06-2012, 08:30 PM

Leah, I'm with the other gals.. hold off as long as you feel like it.. it's not like the vet will even remember what they told you (my experience at least :D). Take your time and if you never dose her again then big deal. FYI you can give a single prednisone when they are down in the dumps to give them a little 'cortisol high'. Many have done it over the years and it works when that is the issue. She won't go high with a single pill. Kim

lulusmom

08-06-2012, 11:51 PM

:eek: GLYNDA!! :eek: You can't put stuff like that out in public! People really will think you're nuts! :p

And your point is? I've been a nut job for years and your influence had nothing to do with. :p

mypuppy

08-07-2012, 03:28 AM

Hi Leah,
I don't believe I have posted to you before. God knows I try to keep up with everyone's thread but difficult to do at times. I just wanted to say I agree with the others in stopping Maya's trilo for as long as you feel she and you can handle. My girl Princess also seems to be one of those dogs who may have become sensitive to trilo. She has had a history of lower cortisol while on treatment and always up and down with dosing adjustments. Her last dose was as low as 10mg daily weighing in at 70lbs. ive seen teeny dogs on much higher doses than my large breed?? Right now she has been on a trilo break for over 2 months and I WON'T restart until her symptoms return. As you, I too am baffled with my girl's mysterious effects of her treatment and must monitor her carefully each time she resumes treatment. If I am blessed I would hope she never had to restart for the remainder of her life--one can dream!

I do so hope Maya will continue to rebound for you without the annoying symptoms high cortisol can bring on in order for her to enjoy some good quality of life with mom and family. it's all we can hope and pray for for our precious babies.

keeping your girl in my prayers.

Warmest regards and tight hugs.

Xo Jeanette and my girl Princess

Maya

08-10-2012, 11:35 AM

Thank you Kim and Jeanette and Sharlene. I really appreciate your kindness. Maya has been off medication for a weeK now and at first things seemed to be getting better. She perked up quite a bit. Then all of a sudden things went pear shaped! All the symptoms of before returned with vengeance! I have been up practically all night...my heart is heavy and I feel helpless. Maya was so unsettled panting, distressed, peeing all the time and falling all over the place. I'm going to the vet's today. Maybe I'll suggest another ACTH test to see if her cortisol levels have gone any lower. At this point, I don't know what the hell is wrong with her and neither does the vet! Last month her ACTH test was within the norm and last week blood work was normal. I do not know what else to do now and my heart aches.......

jmac

08-10-2012, 11:54 AM

I'm so sorry to hear you and Maya had such a rough night and that things aren't going well. It is so frustrating when there is not a clear reason as to what is going on. All we want to know is what the answer is to make our dogs feel happy and comfortable, and unfortunately, sometimes no one can find one.

I'm glad you're going to the vet today. I hope they'll be able to figure out what is going on and how to make her feel better.

I'm sending strength and positive thoughts your way!

Julie & Hannah

Squirt's Mom

08-10-2012, 12:15 PM

Hi Leah,

Do let us know what the vet does and says this morning.

Keep your chin up, sweetie, and know we are right by your side.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

molly muffin

08-10-2012, 12:18 PM

Oh my. Poor Maya. Whatever it is, it is better to know than not know. It is the not knowing that just drives a person up the wall. We just want to figure it out so we can set up a plan of action. Just like Julie said, it can be very frustrating.
Hoping for some answers for you today. Let us know what the vet says. We're all be waiting with you.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

08-10-2012, 08:01 PM

Dear Leslie Sharlene and Julie, Thank you for your concern for Maya. What an awful ordeal it has been. I took her to the vets as soon as they opened this morning. She was totally out of it. She looked as if she was going to die. I had to carry her to the car, she was so weak. She was semi conscious- her mouth was hanging open and she was drooling all over the place. I have never seen her so bad and to be honest I did not expect to be bringing her back home with me. She was practically lifeless! I went over all the symptoms for the 150th time, he listened to her heart beat which he said was slow, but strong. Her temperature was normal. I reminded him that I had stopped her medication a week ago and that I'd seen an improvement, but all of a sudden last night she got worse. He knows that I cannot spend heaps of money trying to diagnose her.... at her age it could be anything! I told him that I thought it could be addisons even thought last months stim test was normal and her blood chemisty didn't indicate that either-she has most of the signs. He agreed, but we all know that lot's of illnesses share the same sort of symptoms. So here we are banging on about her Cushings when it could well be something else! I suggested that she try Prednisone because I've seen it mentioned here quite a lot. At first, he wasn't all that enthusiastic because apparently Most vets do not like using it. He said that there is a bit of a controversy about that drug in the Veterinary world at the moment. I asked him if it was best to put her to sleep and he kind of didn't like that idea either....for now anyway. I was prepared to do it, so he warmed up to the idea of using prednisone. I was worried about not being able to get her to take the pill, so the nurse said that she would do it for me. She got one of those pill pockets and that did the trick. Even though she looked half dead, she ate it! Never too sick for a treat, huh?;) That's the weird thing, she has been eating normally for the last couple of days.
Anyway, I carried her back to the car because she couldn't get up and off home we went. I put her on her bed-wondering if I'd done the right thing about not having her put to sleep. She did not want to lie down. She got up and wobbled over to the door to be let out in the yard to pee. She was very shaky at first, but managed to walk by herself. She slept for about an hour and then got up for a drink. I gave her some food and she wanted some of my sandwich. The dog seems to have made a miraculous recovery. I cannot and will not believe it....I can't help but wait for the crash. I mean....compared to this morning, she is loads better. She can walk in a straight line; she is not staggering all over the place; she is more perky; the tail is on show instead of being tucked between her legs; that pitiful worried expression has gone. Don't get me wrong, she is still not 100%, but she is not on deaths door anymore either. She will be taking 1, 20mg pill of Prednisone for 5 days, then the dose will be reduced to 1 pill every other day for 5 doses. After that it'll be 1/2 pill every other day.
Is this "miracle drug" just lulling me into a false sense of security?? Seeing that it seems to be working so far, does this mean that she WAS borderline Addisons?? Is it just masking the symptoms and when she stops taking it we'll be back at square one as I take it she can stay on it forever? I have no experience with this prenisone, so could someone please explain in a simple manor what to expect. The vet said that he didn't know how she would react to it and we'd just have to take it day by day and that I should still keep myself prepared for the worst.
I want to thank you all sincerely for all your love, best wishes and dedication you have to this forum. God bless you all.....
Much love, Leah and Maya

frijole

08-10-2012, 09:23 PM

Scratching my head along with you... but if she went addisonian then cortisol is what she needed and prednisone is how you give it. So that would explain the turnaround. Dogs die if they don't have cortisol in their system and so prednisone can be a life saver in addisonian dogs.

OK... that said... the acth test from the other day makes no sense... as it showed she was not low.

So either that test was flawed (or another dog's results) or something else is going on. Process of elimination. If the episode you described recurs while on the prednisone then you have to believe something else is going on and it is not cushings or addisons.

I hope this helps! Hugs, Kim

molly muffin

08-10-2012, 11:10 PM

If the prednisone continues to help, then I'd keep her on a low dose of it or try the every other day for as long as possible. If it continues to work.
My golden has severe allergies, and I do mean severe, and was on prednisone from the time she was 2 years old.

Good luck and I'm so glad that Maya is acting better this evening!

HUGS
Sharlene

Maya

08-10-2012, 11:44 PM

Dear Sharlene and Kim, Thank you for you input! Kim, Maya's ACTH test was done a month ago. She just had normal blood work done the other day. The vet said that if she was Addisons she would have low potassium and sodium and that her electrolytes would have been screwed up. So he didn't feel it necessary to have another ACTH test....maybe he was just trying to save me money...
Maya is definitely better- still weak, a little off balance and she shakes a bit sometimes. Do you think it takes a while for the cortisol levels to go back up (if this is the problem of course) How long can dogs stay on Prednisone?
Sharlene, I'm definitely going to keep Maya on the pills to see how she does for a few days. I hope we all get a good night's sleep tonight. We are all exhausted!
Much love, Leah and Maya

frijole

08-11-2012, 08:35 AM

Prednisone works quiickly and is said to give dogs relief within a couple hours. Addisonian dogs must be on it for life. Other dogs take it for life for other reasons. That said - once on it you can't just stop - it must be weaned... it also has caused a form of cushings in some dogs. For now let's just take the relief and see if relief continues. Because we don't really know for sure if the cortisol went low. Hang in there. Kim

Squirt's Mom

08-11-2012, 09:12 AM

Hi Leah,

Oh what a good report! When I started reading, the tears started falling as I saw you in my mind's eye carrying that sweet girl into the clinic. I could feel the anguish in your heart. As I read on, my tears dried and a smile came over my face! Oh, the wonders of pred! This is one of the true miracle drugs of our time, honey. For all the damage it can cause over time, for years and years it can provide amazing relief for a multitude of conditions.

It is entirely possible that Maya's cortisol got too low yet her electrolytes weren't yet affected. In that scenario, you will never know what the cortisol was while she was having troubles as an ACTH wasn't done. But her response to the pred sure indicates it was too low and you did the absolutely right thing in getting her to the vet and in allowing the pred to be given. You just keep giving it as directed and keep watching her as you always do...and the next few days will tell the tale. ;)

Now, while long-term use of pred has definite draw backs, do not let that stop you from using it as needed. If, IF, it turns out that Maya will need to have her cortisol synthetically supplemented from now on, there are other alternatives out there that can be used as well. But for now, I am just so glad the pred has helped.

I so hope the next post from you is to tell us you both slept through the night and are up and ready to tackle this new day.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

molly muffin

08-11-2012, 10:35 AM

Hope you guys had a good night and got some sleep. How is maya this morning.

hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

08-11-2012, 06:54 PM

Hello there my friends, Well......we all had a good nights sleep last night. Maya seems to be doing well on the prednisone. She is eating, walking about without difficulty and she seems to be almost back to normal. Unfortunately she is still peeing on the floor, but I can deal with that.She has slept a lot, but I guess old ladies do-plus the heat has been unbearable over the last couple of days. It really does take it out of you! I would really love to know what caused this crash. I suppose an ACTH test would be useless now she's taking the prednisone. I would have to take her off it and that would scare me right now. I would just like to know if all this happened because of her Cushings treatment.
Thank you all for being here for us!:)
Much love, Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-11-2012, 08:32 PM

Some of the others here will be able to tell you about the ACTH test and prednisone. I just wanted to say that I'm really happy that Maya seems to be doing so well now on it. Even if she does still have the peeing thing going on. Maybe in time that will go away, some it never does, but you don't know till you try. No way would I take her of the prednisone right away. Go with that for awhile and see how she does.

HUGS,
Sharlene

Harley PoMMom

08-11-2012, 09:44 PM

The vet said that if she was Addisons she would have low potassium and sodium and that her electrolytes would have been screwed up. So he didn't feel it necessary to have another ACTH test....maybe he was just trying to save me money...

There are two types or degrees of Addison's - one is what is called Atypical Addison's which is when just cortisol production is affected and the other is more typical Addison's where the production of both cortisol and aldosterone are affected. Atypical Addison's is treated with just prednisone (or some other artifical glucocorticoid like dexamethasone or cortisone). Full Addison's is treated by replacing both the missing cortisol and the missing aldosterone.

The only way to diagnose Atypical Addison's is with an ACTH stim test.

Hope Maya is feeling much better.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Maya

08-13-2012, 04:40 PM

Thank you Lori!:) Don't worry, I will be taking Maya for another ACTH test, but for the moment I'm going to continue with the pred for a little while longer before I contact the vet. This drug is incredible! Maya is back to normal, eating, drinking, barking, wagging her tail, etc. She is peeing a lot less and has not peed in the house at all since day two of the prednisone. So, I think it has now become obvious that she does not still have a urine infection. Seeing all those dreadful symptoms gradually disappear after starting the prednisone I am beginning to think that it really was her cortisol levels that dropped. She has had three ACTH tests in the last three months and each time her post cortisol has been slowly dropping even with the smaller dose and eventual cessation of trilo. While she was still within range, she just became weaker and weaker. I have also been reading about the adverse effects of trilostane and Maya had all the symptoms except vomit and diarrhea. I am enjoying these few days of having my dog back and I'm not even considering putting her back on trilo until she displays Cushings symtoms or the results of an ACTH show ridiculously high levels! Thank you all for your help and support
Hugs from Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-13-2012, 11:40 PM

I am thrilled that Maya is having some good days and doing better. *insert happy dance! :)

HUGS,
Sharlene

lulusmom

08-13-2012, 11:52 PM

Hi Leah,

Did your vet check Maya's electrolytes with every stim test? Just wondering because I read the full study UC Davis did on twice daily dosing, thanks to Fred (Trixie's dad) and in the discussion section, they mentioned that Vetoryl can have a bigger impact on mineralcorticoids than on cortisol. In other words, it's possible for a dog to have cortisol well above the danger zone but aldosterone can be too low, making the dog sick with addisonian-like symptoms. Sounds like Maya might fit that pattern. Just saying......

Glynda

Maya

08-14-2012, 12:19 AM

Hiya Glynda, We did not check Maya's electrolytes with every Stim test, but we did check them last week and they were fine. It is very baffling...
When they do an ACTH test are they just checking the cortisol or do they check the aldoterone too? All I ever see mentioned is cortisol! I'm going to call the vet this week to tell him of Maya's progress and discuss having another ACTH. Am I right in saying that we need to withhold the pred for 24 to 36 hours before? Do you think that the fact that all her symptoms have disappeared now she is on pred is a good indicator that it was her cortisol levels or does pred make every kind of ailment vanish? You see, Maya was so sick the other day that the vet didn't really know what to do. I was the one who suggested she take Prednisone!!!! He didn't do an ACTH and probably presumed it was her cortisol levels seeing that we have had these symptoms for a good while now. Unfortunately I still don't know for sure what was wrong with her! All I know is that I went there on Saturday morning with my dog on death's door and now she is back to her old self. Something that I haven't seen in many months!Is this prednisone for real or is it one of those drugs that lull you into a false sense of security by making you think that your prolems are over? Any advice on what to do next would greatly be appreciated!
Thank you so much for your valuable input and thank you Sharlene for your continuous support
Hugs from Leah and Maya

lulusmom

08-14-2012, 12:36 AM

Hi Leah,

Aldosterone is a mineralcorticoid that helps maintain blood pressure and water and salt balance in the body. When the production falls too low it screws with the exchange of sodium and potassium (electrolytes). Electrolytes are checked by a simple blood test that can usually be done inhouse. The typical ACTH stim test measure only cortisol. I hope this helps.

Glynda

P.S. Yes, prednisone should be withheld at least 24 hours before a stim test. If she starts to get sick again after withholding the pred, that would be a pretty good indication that her cortisol is too low. If that should happen, I'd proceed exactly as you have planned.

jmac

08-14-2012, 12:42 AM

Hi Leah,

I'm glad to hear Maya is still doing so well. That's great! I'll be curious to hear if you ever figure out what was going on with her. Remember, when you do stop prednisone you need to taper it, usually to an every other day dose, then every three or four, etc. Obviously it would be fine to skip the day for an ACTH test, but I just didn't want you to stop abruptly.

Hope Maya continues to do well!

Julie & Hannah

Maya

08-15-2012, 05:17 PM

Hello my dear friends. Just thought I'd pop in and give you an update. Maya is doing really well-she is back to her old self!:) She is eating like a little piggy, wagging her little tail, guarding the house when someone rings the door bell, playing with her toys, no peeing in the house. I can't believe how miraculous this prednisone is! I was really worried about giving it to her at first due to the vets negative attitude towards it and the grave warnings about it on the internet. I'm telling you, the benefits are worth the risk! It's great seeing my lill stinky pooch back to her old self. Her vet has been canned and we've made an appointment somewhere else for a second opinion and ACTH test early next week, until then she is continuing with the pred. As of tomorrow her dose will be reduced to 1 20mg pill every other day.
Love 'n' hugs, Leah and Maya

frijole

08-15-2012, 09:02 PM

Wonderful news! We love these kind of updates! Kim

molly muffin

08-15-2012, 11:10 PM

I'm so happy to hear that Maya is doing well! Great news Leah!

Hugs,
Sharlene

Squirt's Mom

08-16-2012, 08:59 AM

That is great news, Leah! :):cool::):cool:

Maya

08-22-2012, 10:42 PM

Hello my friends, So the plot thickens! I took Maya for an ACTH test today at another vets. I withheld her Prednisone for 48 hours beforehand. I have just recieved her results and I'm even more confused than before. Her base cortisol was 2.5 and the post was 10.4. Bare in mind that she hasn't had any Trilostane for 2 and a half weeks now. The vet is now questioning whether or not she had Cushings to begin with. He says that her cortisol levels are that of a non Cushoid dog!! I cannot, will not and do not believe that she was misdiagnosed! All the tests that she had indicated Cushings...even the ultra sound. I have no idea what to think now. I'm so upset. I was half hoping that she had become Addisonian, at least then we'd have know what to do. I did not expect this. The vet said, No more trilostane- which I had no intention of giving her. I am to continue with the prednisone seeing that it made her feel better, but we are going to reduce the dose and probably keep her on it once we get her to 2.5 mgs a day or even every other day. I'm terrified that she is going to get sick again-like she was 10 days ago. We don't know whats wrong with her!:confused:
Hugs from Leah and Maya

frijole

08-22-2012, 11:28 PM

Is this new vet an internal med specialist or a regular vet? What made you select this one? Just wondering about their experience with cushings.. it is tough to pick up in the middle of a tough case.

I reread your entire thread but it didn't help me. What were the initial symptoms before diagnosing cushings? urination?

You treated and increased the dose over time and the dose was too much (we assume) and she's been great since being on prednisone which would make sense if her levels had gone too low.

How does this new vet know that the dog does not have cushings? She started out at some level over 20 (acth test to diagnose cushings) you got her to a 'desired level' and her body didn't like it. You took her off trilostane and gave her prednisone. Prednisone mimics cortisol (which causes cushings) so of course her level will increase... how does he know it won't creep back up to 20 or higher?

Trilo works differently than lysodren which I used so perhaps because it leaves the body quicker that the cortisol would rise more quickly... I"m rambling and thinking out loud....

I just want a comfort level that this new vet has experience and is an improvement. Trust me - I went from clueless to more clueless to still clueless so I know it isn't easy.

Looking to see what others have to say.. not sure what to think. I would think that if your dog didn't have cushings you'd be told to taper off the prednisone slowly with the goal being to get off of it entirely. (Note - continual use of prednisone in non cushings dogs can cause a form of cushings called iatrogenic cushings)

Kim

molly muffin

08-24-2012, 04:04 PM

Hi Leah,
Just checking in to see how Maya was doing. I agree with Kim. Everything did point to cushings and then a response to the medicine.
Hope all is well. As long as Maya is feeling good and her other values are doing okay, then hopfully she will be okay.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

08-28-2012, 04:59 PM

Hi Guys, hope you and your little doggies are all well and doing fine. Maya is not too bad at the moment. She is still on the prednisone, but we are slowly weaning her off it. I translated all Maya's Italian test results and took the file to her new vet. Now that he has seen all the results leading up to her Cushings diagnosis, he has taken back his original statement when he said that he didn't think Maya had Cushings. He does not believe she has Addisons either because her last ACTH test showed that she was still producing cortisol on her own. She had not any Trilostane for 2 and a half weeks and the prednisone had been withheld for 48 hours before the test and her Cortisol levels were that of a non-cush dog. So, she is having a break from the trilostane because she doesn't need any at the moment.
I have got a bad feeling about this whole situation. I can't help feeling that Maya has a Macro tumor. She had all the symptoms. I read Marianne's story about her dog and one of the things that struck a chord was her dog not knowing how to drink- he seemed to have lost control of his tongue. Maya was the same before the prednisone! All her symptoms disappeared when we started the pred. This would happen in the case of a Macro tumor as the pred would reduce the swelling. Now we have lowered her dose I suspect some symptoms are starting to appear again.She was reluctant to eat her dinner last night, she peed on the carpet last night and she is a bit wobbly on her legs when she turns around. The symptoms are only subtle at the moment, but......*sigh* Time will tell..... We are playing the waiting and watching game.
She is still happy and that is the main thing. We are spoiling her more usual and she is loving it!
I'm trying not to obsess and ruin the time we have left with her. All these symptoms. They are all the same! It could be anything! I have become an expert on dog illnesses. It could be this- it could be that.
I had narrowed it down to 3 things. Macro -tumor, intolerance to trilostane or Addisons. Two of which have been ruled out and the remaining one I can't do anything about!
I will keep you up dated as the drama unfolds.
Many blessings to you all.
Love, Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-28-2012, 05:43 PM

That could also mean her cortisol levels are starting to come back up couldn't it?
If it is a macro tumor, then I worry about staying on the Trilostane which might encourage a more rapid growth? I could swear I read that. Then if the pred is helping and it's a macro, would it be better to keep her on that at a low dose?
I think those are questions to take to your vet next trip.

Whatever this is. I hope that Maya continues to be a happy girl, who just goes on enjoying life with you as long as possible.

hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

08-28-2012, 06:06 PM

Dear Sharlene, at this point we don't know. Even though Maya had been on huge doses of Prednisone and off her trilostane for a long time, her ACTH test was that of a normal dog. The vet explained that a Cush dog on medication should have cortisol levels of 1-5 pre/post ACTH, right? Maya's pre was 2.5 and the post was 10.4 those numbers are that of a 'normal' dog. The range being pre 2-6 post 6-18. Don't worry, Maya is not going to back on trilostane! I have already made my mind up. We will do another ACTH test in a couple of weeks when we have weaned her off the pred. Obviously if she worsens, she will be put back on it. You know.......there is only so much you can do. I want her to be happy and comfortable. She will not be having an MRI or anything like that. I would not put her through that. She is too old to be dealing with that kind of stress. We're just gonna play it by ear and take things one day at a time. Thank you for your response, you are such a sweetie. I hope your little furry friend is well...
Love Leah and Maya

molly muffin

08-29-2012, 10:17 AM

I think you have a solid plan for Maya and it makes sense, so as you said, play it by ear and one day at a time. So here is hoping for many good days, one at a time. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly

frijole

08-29-2012, 03:20 PM

Seeing you post those results made me think of something that could be the reason... it is based on my understanding of lysodren treatment so bare with me...

My dog Annie was misdiagnosed .. she had cortisol that was raised a bit due to her body fighting a tumor unrelated to cushings. So she went on lysodren and her cortisol was down after a couple weeks but around 20. We went another week and it went down to say 16. We INCREASED the dose and she quit eating and the acth test was UP to say 19. Those numbers made no sense but we now know that was because she never had cushings and a non cush dog can't get to between a 1 and a 5 (well you'd have to increase the dose dramatically and probably it would kill the dog )

So I'm wondering if perhaps this is what happened with Maya on the trilo... if I recall there were some that questioned the diagnosis to begin with.

Food for thought... xoxo Kim

Maya

09-02-2012, 02:00 PM

Hi Kim, it could be anything..... I've read the entire thread about macro tumors and Maya had ALL the symptoms AND all her blood work is normal which also happens to be a good indicator. At the moment they are being partially controlled by the prednisone, but over the last two days they have been creeping back. I fear that it is only a matter of time :(
Thank you for you constant support...
Hugs from Leah and Maya

Maya

09-07-2012, 12:04 AM

Maya was seen by a specialist yesterday who reviewed her whole case file. She had more blood tests done and he called us today with the results. All her tests came back fine except her ALK phos which was a staggering 3600!!:eek: At this point he has diagnosed Maya with a macro tumour (given her history and symptoms) I kind of knew it was that....you know that ole gut feeling! He said we could do some imaging-CT, MRI , but he is pretty sure that is what it is. Like I have said from the beginning, I'm not going down that road...she is too old for that....I'm going to continue with the prednisone for now as she does not seem to be in any pain...then again, how does one know???? She still wags her tail and comes to bum food which indicates she is not quite at that stage of being "helped" to pass. I'm spoiling her her rotten. She just had a piece of Italian sausage and pepperoni pizza.She devoured it shark style-nearly had me bloody hand off!:D I'm so, so sad that she has to be one of the unlucky few to develop this kind of tumour. I just hope she goes by herself. I don't want to have to make that decision...please God!:(

frijole

09-07-2012, 12:21 AM

Oh what a wonderful mom you are to Maya. Sad news but you are doing what is best for her no doubt. Spoil her rotten and enjoy every day - it'll be good for both her and you. Hang in there and know we are here. Hugs, Kim

molly muffin

09-07-2012, 01:00 AM

Oh no. I'm so sorry that it's been pretty much confirmed that Maya has this sort of tumor. :(
I'm sure she is loving being spoiled though, just as much as ou love spoiling her.
Just enjoy the days as they come.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Squirt's Mom

09-07-2012, 07:26 AM

aw Leah,

I had so hoped it would be something else. :( We never want our babies to be sick but when they are, we pray for something a pill can cure. I bet that pizza and sausage sure seemed like the perfect cure to Maya, tho! ;):)

Keep in touch and know we are with you both every minute.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Bo's Mom

09-08-2012, 04:50 PM

I just read Maya's entire post and you're right on how similar her and Bo's situation seem to be. I am doing what you are doing and taking it one day at a time and treasuring each second they give us.
I just want to say thanks for sharing Maya's story. Here's to many more pepperoni days. :o

Maya

09-18-2012, 05:13 PM

Hello there! Just thought I'd pop in and let you know how things are going. Maya is still on the prednisone -some days she has more than others, but usually no more than 10mgs. It seems to be helping her get by and I think that if we withheld it she would quickly deteriorate and probably die... I feel guilty about keeping her alive dosed up to eyeballs with steroids, but I can't stop giving them to her now....
Maybe I should have had her put to sleep that time she collapsed. Maybe it would have been kinder to release her then when I felt ready enough to do it. I should not have suggested the prednisone. I love her so much and the vet seemed to think it was a good idea. I don't want her to suffer! She has a macro tumor and there is nothing we can do about it. Some days are better than others, but I don't know if she is enjoying being alive anymore. She has moments where she wags her tail, bums food and is more interactive, but.......This is why I can't make the decision....you know, that dreaded decision!She does not look like she is quite at that stage yet, but I can't help wondering if she is living a pretty, shitty existence at the moment. I pray for the good Lord to take her peacefully in her sleep, but he's not listening. My heart aches, I have zero motivation to do anything at all...
The latest drama -I found bright red fleshy like chunks in her poo this morning. I tried to squash one of them between my fingers and it felt a bit rubbery, kind of like a small piece of meat. I couldn't see any runny blood or anything. Her poo was a little mushy. She did have some water melon yesterday. Do you think it could be that? This happened a couple of weeks ago too. She had also eaten water melon that time. The thing is it doesn't seem that watermelon would have that kind of texture. I also thought that anything with blood in it would come out black, but I'm no expert. These things looked like little pieces of steak! anyone got any ideas??:confused:
Hugs, Leah and Maya

Squirt's Mom

09-18-2012, 06:48 PM

Hi Leah,

Good to hear from you and Maya! :) Since this has happened both times with the watermelon, I would suspect it as the culprit and not let her have any more. If you see this again, then you will know it is something else.

I really, truly wish I could give you the answer you seek. One of our members talks about a "dog-worthy life". The sniffing new smells - and old ones too, enjoying a meal or some lovin', barking at the mailman, greeting you when you come home as well as basic body control. You could talk to your vet and ask if they think Maya is uncomfortable or not, if they think her time is indeed close or not. For those who love our babies, these things can be hard to see at times and there is no shame in asking what her vet thinks. Know we are here for you any time when those shadows seem especially close.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Steph n' Ella

09-18-2012, 07:02 PM

Thinking of you, Leah and Maya, try to stay healthy and strong!

molly muffin

09-18-2012, 07:59 PM

Oh Leah, this is so hard for you and your family.

I know what you mean though. My golden retriever Tasha, was on prednisone most of her life and without it, she was so miserable with the allergies and skin problems and hemotomas. When she got really bad, I think it was only the pred that got her through a day, yet each day, she always managed to wag her tail for some reason and want to be near us. Even when she could hardly walk, she wanted to chase that ball, she just couldn't. It was heart breaking on so many levels. I had her from the time she was 6 weeks old, so it was tough. I always told myself, she will let me know and one day she did. It doesn't make it better or even necessarily easier. I think you'll know in your heart when that time comes. Until then just enjoy every day and moment. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Maya

09-18-2012, 08:12 PM

Thank you for your continued support. I think I'll know when the time is right too.... I was just having a moan about my frustrations. The stinker just came in...she heard the rustle of paper and wanted a couple of chips. She got what she wanted, so I asked her for a kiss. She grunted and just walked off!:rolleyes:

molly muffin

09-18-2012, 08:27 PM

Brats aren't they! hahahahaha Ahh, well, that's what we love about them.

I know, some days it just feels like frustration overload and a good moan or two or three, does wonders for us. :)

Hugs,
Sharlene

Boriss McCall

09-18-2012, 09:06 PM

Leah,
I was finally able to read & catch up on Maya's story. She is such a beautiful pup.
I am so sorry you are going thru such a painful thing. :( Cushing's is so scary..
Maya is lucky she has a mama like you who love her, cares & comforts her.

hugs..

Tina

09-22-2012, 11:44 PM

Hi Leah,

First, I have been meaning to tell you what an absolutely beautiful dog Maya is. Such a soulful face and eyes. I love your avatar pic. I also want to tell you what a sweet and heartfelt response you posted in Nikki's thread. I had been reading about Maya's story and realized that I got sidetracked the week of labor day, when my Jasper ended up in an addisonian crisis and was hospitalized twice during that week. I have been so involved with getting him recovered from that and the HGE that he developed, that I am just now getting caught up on your story. I am heartbroken to read that Maya was diagnosed with a macro tumor, and I am so sorry that you have to go through this. You have taken such wonderful care of her, and I am so glad that you are able to enjoy and appreciate the time you are having with her now. It is so hard to cover your heartache and put up a strong front for her. What a great Mom you are.

Love and hugs,

Tina and Jasper

Maya

09-23-2012, 05:36 PM

Awww how nice of you! Thank you Tina.... There are so many of us on the board that it is virtually impossible to keep up with everything and everyone!:) I'm glad you had the chance to "stop by". Poor little Jasper! I'm sorry he took ill like that....you must have been out of your mind with worry. It's good to hear that you have things under control now and that Jasper is feeling better....

Hugs from me and Maya

Nikki

09-23-2012, 10:48 PM

I was just curious, does one of Maya's eyes bulge? When I brought Max to the specialist, I told her I was worried because the last few weeks I noticed his left eye bulged slightly, and he always tried to get us to press on it, it brought him some kind of relief. I told her how I have nightmares that his eyeball is just going to pop out!!!! I was afraid it was a sign that he had a macro tumor.
Tonight I'm noticing that it is definitely bulging, and more than usual!! It is creeping me out. I don't know if it means anything, or if it just kind of happens? Or maybe his other eye is just more closed than usual? I was just curious.

Maya

09-23-2012, 10:59 PM

Hiya Nikki, I will write to you over in your thread tomorrow, because I'm just on my way out. Quickly, before I go. Yes, Maya's left eye does bulge out. I realised a couple of weeks ago that she is infact blind in that eye! I pretended to poke her and almost touched her eye ball and she didn't even flinch. I just put it down to one of the macro symptoms and the vet pretty much confirmed this.
I'm glad to hear little Max is feeling better. I've been wondering about him:)
Hugs from Me and the stinker.

Nikki

09-23-2012, 11:12 PM

I was just poking around the site (in an attempt to procrasinate and not do homework) and I saw you had wrote about her eye bulging and she couldn't see out of it on the macro thread, so I came back to your thread to say I found my answer, but you had answered me already :). I don't know if Max can see out of his eye. Maybe I'll pretend to poke him tomorrow! He is VERY tired today. I tried to wake him up to give him his phenobarbital and he was still sleeping!! I was standing him up and he was slowly falling over. It took about ten minutes but he finally ate his chicken wrapped pill!

molly muffin

09-25-2012, 06:54 PM

I saw over on Max's thread that Maya has had some not good days. How are you doing? How's Maya? I hope that you are having many, many precious moments together. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

09-26-2012, 02:09 PM

Hi Sharlene:) Maya has been doing o.k I suppose...considering. she'll have a couple of good days followed by a couple of not so good ones where she is very unsteady on her feet. She staggers all over the place, drinks and pees a lot. We have to get up every 3 hours during the night to let her out to pee and we still wake up to wet spots in the morning! She has a good appetite and is eating pretty much what she wants. Chicken, brown rice, frozen yogurt, treats galore! She's not complaining about it either.:D I don't think she is in pain, well...she doesn't seem to be. She sleeps pretty much all day and becomes more active in the evening. She doesn't not want to go out on walks anymore, but I do take her to the lake and we just sit there and enjoy the scenery.
Counting my blessings, I'm grateful that I can stay at home with her and look after her. If I'd have been in the same position as I was two years ago, I would have been screwed. Maya and I lived in an apartment block in Milan, Italy and I had to work full time. Poor Maya had to climb 3 staircases to reach our door. It was awful....not to mention the freezing cold winters, which played havoc with her arthritis. I married my American husband last year and Maya and I moved to San Diego to be with him. Now she has her own garden (which comes in handy with all the peeing that she's doing) and no more stairs to climb. So, there you have it, this situation could have been a lot worse to deal with! I believe that "someone" is looking after us:)
Thank you for asking Sharlene. It means a lot....
I hope that little Molly is well and doing fine. She's such a lovely looking little dog.

Hugs from me and Maya

molly muffin

09-26-2012, 05:14 PM

Hi, so glad you are in San Diego now with Maya. The stairs would have been awful to try and deal with.

I bet she Is really enjoying all that yummy food. I would be! LOL

I have to add, I've wanted to say it so many times and just haven't, but every time her in your avatar, I want to shake that paw and give her a treat. ROFL! I can't help it, it's just there and looks like it needs to be touched..Now hahahaha Molly does high fives with her paw to get a treat. Probably why I think of it.

I'm super glad she doesn't seem to be in any pain. The prednisone must be helping her, not as much swelling.

You're doing awesome. This is such a cruddy thing to have to go through. :(

Molly is good. I keep an eye on her for changes, etc. Sometimes I freak myself out thinking I've noticed something and then the next day all seems normal, so probably just being a worry wart.
So far she is just bratty as usual. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

Tina

09-29-2012, 11:51 PM

Hi Leah,

Just thinking about you and Maya and wondering how she is doing this weekend. I read your post about your apartment in Italy, and 3 staircases would be difficult to manage all the time even for a completely healthy dog I think! :eek: I am so glad you don't have to deal with that now, and also that you are able to be home with her. That is so wonderful. I hate having to go to work and leaving Jasper home all the time, and when he was so sick, it was especially difficult. But I am lucky that I work close enough where it is possible for me to take a long lunch and run home to check on him. It isn't ideal and I wouldn't be able to do it all the time, but it works on a short term basis. So I am grateful for that. At my last job, that wouldn't have been so possible.

I am glad to read that Maya has a good appetite and is eating well, that is so hard when they won't eat. I hope she is feeling good this weekend and that you are enjoying your time together.

Hugs to you both,

Tina and Jasper

Boriss McCall

10-03-2012, 05:58 PM

I hope Maya is feeling good this week & you are getting some cuddles.

Nikki

10-04-2012, 01:49 PM

I hope you and Maya are doing well :). I was just wondering if you could tell me what she weighs and what dose of prednisone she is on? I was thinking maybe we could up Max's dose but I have no idea if he is on a low dose or a really high one right now. He is about 18lbs and is on 7.5mg/day

Maya

10-04-2012, 06:38 PM

Hiya Nikki!Maya was supposed to be on 5mgs a day, but I was given the go ahead to give her more if necessary. She is actually taking 10mgs a day because 5mg does nothing for her. Sometimes on a particularly bad day I have given her 15mgs, though her symptoms have to be really severe before she gets that amount. Maya weighs in at about 43lbs.
I believe, but don't quote me, that prednisone is usually kept at the lowest dose possible when treating 'banal' things like allergies, arthritis etc... because of it's serious side effects. Sterioids like prednisone can be used in larger doses in terminal cases like tumors because the patient is not going to get better. All steroids do is improve the quality of the time the patient has left, which is usually the focus at that stage.
In Maya's case, yes...I'm kind of concerned that her doses are getting higher....but I'd rather her be comfortable, than her be in a zombie state,falling all over the place and crashing into things! Let's face it the tumor will probably kill her before the side effects of prednisone do and if it does happen to be the other way around...well
at least she was more comfortable right up till the end. We are in a no win situation anyway....
My vet did say that dogs can do quite well for quite a while on large doses of pred, so I don't know......I was just handed the pills and sent home because basically, no-one can do anything more.
Max is just a little guy, so 7.5 mgs would be considered a decent sized dose, but if he is not doing very well I would definitely ask the vet if you can up the dose.
Hugs from Me and Maya

molly muffin

10-04-2012, 11:37 PM

We all hope that you and Maya are having some good days together.

hugs,
Sharlene

Maya

10-05-2012, 12:14 AM

Thank you dear Sharlene, you are a sweetheart!:)

Hugs to you and Molly

FrecklesMom

10-05-2012, 04:54 PM

Hi Leah, I'm just having some time to read how everyones babies are doing. So sorry to about sweet Mayas situation. I too hope you much quality time with her. Take good care of yourself too along the way.

Hugs, freckles and diane

Maya

10-05-2012, 05:38 PM

Thank you Diane, that's very sweet of you!
Hugs from Me and Maya

Squirt's Mom

10-16-2012, 09:09 AM

Mornin',

Just popping in to say ya'll are on my mind and hope the days are bringing you both some comfort sharing in each others company. It can be a difficult road we walk sometimes so we learn to truly cherish and appreciate every minute together.

Many hugs and belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

Bo's Mom

10-16-2012, 06:59 PM

How is Maya doing today?

molly muffin

10-17-2012, 08:09 PM

Yes indeedy, what is our girl Maya up to these days? How are You doing?

Hope all is well.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Squirt's Mom

10-18-2012, 10:45 AM

Hi Leah,

You don't have to take the time from Maya to reply, just want you to know you both are being held in loving arms and hearts always.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Maya

10-18-2012, 11:36 AM

Hello, Hello, here I am! Sorry about not replying sooner. We've been having computer problems. I came on yesterday and wrote a whole post you all and when I hit the submit reply, the damn computer switched itself off! It has been doing so for the past two days! We seem to have had a virus of some sort, but hopefully it is sorted now!
Thanks so much for asking about Maya....I haven't really written anything on my thread for a while because things have been pretty much the same....if not worse....
The neurological symptoms seem to be getting worse and I've had to up her dose of prednisone to 20mgs a day. she is drinking loads and peeing all the time. She is still eating quite well and has become quite partial to human food. I made her some whole wheat pasta with chicken, peas and carrots the other day and being the good Italian she is...she wolfed it all down in a minute!:) She likes frozen yogurt-vanilla flavour. She can eat anything she wants now, after all we don't have to worry about harming her health anymore.
It's been very difficult and challenging over the past few weeks. It breaks my heart to see her like this. I have hardly been out of the house and my poor husband has probably found me unbearable to live with. I've been very moody, resentful and upset....geez, talk about a tsunami of mixed emotions...
She does not seem to be in any pain, but then again how would one know? She doesn't make any noise or cry out...she just looks miserable:( I have been trying to psych myself up to take her in and have her put to sleep, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm torn over the whole thing. I've been praying for the good Lord to take her, but my prayers have fallen on deaf ears. I really hope this doesn't drag on for ages...it's awful......

Hugs from Leah and Maya

Tina

10-20-2012, 01:09 PM

Dear Leah,

I have not been on the site a lot in the past week or so (have been having some "issues" unrelated to Jasper), but want you to know I have been thinking about you and Maya every day and keeping you in my prayers. Tears are falling as I read your last post. I so understand all the mixed emotions and feelings. As Leslie has said, this is a very difficult road we walk, and my heart goes out to you now. I pray that you are sharing much quality time with your baby, and that you are taking care of yourself.

Many caring hugs, and belly rubs for Maya,

Tina and Jasper

Maya

10-20-2012, 02:27 PM

Thank you Tina for thinking of us and keeping us in your prayers. It really means a lot to me. I hope little Jasper is doing well and fine and that you have been getting your own issues under control. There always seems to be something, huh?:rolleyes: We have to be strong and soldier on, no matter what! God bless you Tina....and your little pooch of course!:)

Hugs from
Me and Maya Boo

jmac

10-20-2012, 03:39 PM

Hi Leah,
Just wanted to let you know I've been thinking of you and Maya too. I'm so sorry to hear she isn't doing well. Bit I'm glad you're spoiling her. If the time comes to bring her in to let her go, I believe you'll know. It seems like you agonize about it, wondering if you should, and then at some point you just know. She will let you know when it's time. Thinking of you both...

Julie & Hannah

molly muffin

10-20-2012, 08:15 PM

Hi Leah. Just thinking of you and Maya and hope you are having a good day. Tummy rubs to Maya.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Bo's Mom

10-20-2012, 09:00 PM

Leah,
I totally understand the pain you are feeling watching your baby girl Maya slip away from the dog she once was. I am feeling those same things as I see Bo just lay there everyday not wanting to do much but sleep. I do believe that one day he will be able to say to me, "No more" and I will have to respect that and take him in. I don't even want to take him to the vet anymore because I can't handle the thought of having that conversation with him knowing I am going to break down.
But, do know that we are all here in the same boat and here to talk and help with some of those things you are experiencing.
Here's to many more vanilla-flavored yogurt days. (That is my favorite flavor too). :p

molly muffin

10-24-2012, 05:38 PM

Just saw your new avatar pic! Love it!

Hugs
Sharlene

Maya

10-24-2012, 05:58 PM

Thanks Sharlene!:) That photo was taken in Italy just over a year ago, just before moving to the States-Maya was well, then. :(
We are going to the vets later to have him assess Maya. Her vet has retired, so we will see one of his colleagues and we'll have to explain her entire case history all over again!:rolleyes:
I will not be ordering any more tests. We just want to know if we can continue the way we have been doing with the prednisone and see if there is anything else we can do or give her to make her more comfortable. We have been left to our own devices regarding Maya's care plan. I am dreading taking her there because we have both developed a very distinct phobia towards going to the vet. The last time we went she took ill :eek: I also want to know his professional opinion on keeping Maya going for a while longer or releasing her from her little, tired, sick body....... if he convinces me that the latter is the right way to go......I might have it done there and then....

Hugs to all from me and Maya

Boriss McCall

10-24-2012, 07:20 PM

Thats is a GREAT photo. I hope the new doc will give you some encouraging words. I have developed a vet phobia as well. I definitely get more nervous than my dogs.

hugs

Tina

10-24-2012, 09:19 PM

Leah, I LOVE the new pic! You and your beautiful girl. :) I am thinking about you and Maya and praying so hard that the vet visit offers something that will help her.

Huge hugs for you both,

Tina and Jasper

molly muffin

10-25-2012, 08:26 AM

Well it's just beautiful, you and Maya look so happy together. I think that is the perfect way to remember her. This thing that she is going through now is not how it always was.
I know this is hard and so many of you have gone through it that it literally just breaks my heart.
It's a hard decision to make I know. I put off with my Tasha for a very long time. I don't know if I did right or not, but right up till the end Tasha (my golden retriever) was a very happy dog with a tail that wouldn't stop wagging. I figured that as long as she could wag that tail, I'd give her a chance to enjoy her days. It was all I had to go by.
I hope the vet visit won't be too bad for either of you.

hugs,
Sharlene

Squirt's Mom

10-25-2012, 08:48 AM

Mornin' Leah,

You and Maya are on my mind. Know we are right by your side, honey, here any time you need us.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Maya

10-25-2012, 11:40 AM

Thanks girls!:) We survived the trauma! We had a good talk with the vet who was a really nice guy. You could just tell he was so knowledgeable and switched on-very different from the others. Bloody typical isn't it? I could have done with meeting this guy ages ago. He is a very frank and matter of fact kind of guy. He didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know, but he did say that we had been doing the right thing regarding the prednisone. At this point all we can do is take it day by day. It made me feel a little better when he told me that prednisone makes dogs feel great. It's one of those feel good drugs. Although she is on 20mgs a day, I can give her a little bit more if her symptoms are severe. I didn't have the guts to have her put to sleep even though the vet said he couldn't blame me if I wanted to. I asked him if I could just call and bring her in on the same day if she got worse. I just cannot fix an appointment to do it! He said that it shouldn't be a problem.
On the way home we stopped by the lake and we opened up the back of the car so Maya could see the squirrels and ducks. She lay there on her blanket and didn't want to get out of the car, but I think she liked being there. We sat for a while until she started to get a little sleepy. We then stopped for a vanilla frozen yogurt on the way home, which she enjoyed very much indeed!:)
It was a relief the see her walk through that front door. In a situation like this every time you go to the vets, you're never sure if they'll be coming home with you....
Thanks everyone for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers. It really means a lot. God bless you all. I added a couple more photos to my album, if anyone is interested in seeing them. Have a great day everyone.

Love 'n' hugs from me and Maya

Boriss McCall

10-25-2012, 12:23 PM

such great photos! You both are just beautiful.. I am sure Maya loved the yogurt treat. You are such a good mama.;)

molly muffin

10-25-2012, 07:45 PM

Gosh, even I want to to the vets with you! Frozen yogurt And a trip to the park. Take me, take me! Molly will come too!!! ROFL.

I think that is an excellent way to handle it. If the day comes, when it comes, you decide on the spot. It is much better than trying to preplan that sort of thing.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly muffin

jmac

10-25-2012, 11:32 PM

It sounds like you have a great attitude, plan, and doctor. I am so glad! Maya is a lucky girl! You're both in my thoughts and I hope the pred will continue to provide her with some relief.

Julie & Hannah

Bo's Mom

10-26-2012, 08:07 AM

Squirt's Mom

10-26-2012, 08:52 AM

Hi Leah,

What a nice vet! I am so glad he made you feel better and gave you support for the manner in which you are caring for Maya. That had to feel good. ;) I'm also glad Maya got to come home again...that is a strange feeling when you get to bring them back home after thinking it wouldn't happen that way at all. Enjoy your time together. It sounds as if the visit to the lake was a good thing for all and I KNOW the yogurt was enjoyed! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Maya

10-26-2012, 02:41 PM

Your situation with Maya is so very similar to what we are going through with Bo. I was very interested with the fact that your vet said to continue with the Predisone. I have been giving Bo Pred for 3 months now and have increased his dose. I often wonder because I was told that the cushings could come back and then we are faced with a new situation. I, like you, don't want to test/treat for anything anymore as I feel it is so unfair to Bo because I think he is just tired.
I know you are going to keep giving Maya all the love and support she needs and here's to many more puppy kisses and cuddle days ahead.

Hi Belinda, Sorry that little Bo is having a rough time. I know how hard it is on you all.:( At this point Cushings is not on our list of concerns. I haven't even thought about her Cushings in quite a while. I suppose, the only symptom she has drinking and peeing by the gallon, but I believe, that this could be caused by diabetes insipidus brought on by the macro tumour. This was seconded by the vet. In order to know for sure she would have to undergo a series of tests, which at this point would prove futile because having a macro tumour the prognosis is very grim. She is eating, but not as much as she used to and she has become a lot more picky, in fact she has lost 3 pounds! My main concern is trying to keep her neurological symptoms under control, which can be quite severe at times. Yesterday she had 30mgs of pred, so this morning she seems to be better. She isn't staggering and crashing into things. She is now on the same kind of dose as dogs who have auto immune diseases like Lupus ,for example. In those cases dogs are given up to 1mg per pound. Maya's weight is 40.5 pounds. Obviously, I'm going to keep the dosage as low as I can, but at the same time I'm not going to hold back if she needs it. If she develops some other kind of illness because of the pred....well I suppose I'd be forced into a corner and I'd have to have her put to sleep, but at least she would have felt better up until that moment. In situations like this you just have to concentrate on Now. The vet was telling me that Cush dogs don't really suffer. Even though the symptoms seem quite bad, the dogs themselves feel pretty good because they are high on cortisol. So, my advice to you is just concentrate on what is good for Bo today. If the pred works, keep dosing him up!;) We need to keep our little old dogs comfortable right up until the end and you do whatever works...
Kisses and belly rubs to dear little Bo!
Love 'n' hugs from Me and Maya:)

Tina

10-28-2012, 10:51 AM

Good morning Leah,

I can't tell you how happy I am to read that Maya is home with you (yay!), and that the vet validated how you were managing her treatment! ((((hugs)))). That feeling of not knowing if they will be returning home with you each time you go to the vet is just dreadful. The new pics that you posted are wonderful, she is such a beautiful girl. :) And you are doing such a wonderful job with her Leah. I struggle so much with concentrating on the here and now and am always worrying about something. I have a friend who is constantly telling me "one day at a time" , but it is very difficult for me to actually live that way. Sounds like you have it down pat, which I very much admire. I hope you both are having a peaceful weekend. You are in my prayers every day.

Much love and hugs to you both,

Tina and Jasper

molly muffin

11-09-2012, 09:53 PM

Hi! Thinking of you and Maya! Hope things are going okay!

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Maya

11-09-2012, 10:32 PM

Thanks Sharlene! I have been on the board, but I haven't made any posts lately.No positive news, I'm afraid......the good days are getting fewer and fewer and we are still having an almost daily debate on whether or not to take Maya in to be put to sleep. Neither of us have the courage!:(
Hope you and your little Molly are doing well and fine...
Lots of hugs to you both from me and Maya

molly muffin

11-09-2012, 10:48 PM

Oh no, poor Maya. It's so hard to make that decision. You know as soon as you decide one way, something makes you change your mind. That is one kind of courage that it is just hard to find. I know, been there done that and didn't like it at all. :(

We're doing okay here. brrrr, cold. Not a fan. I do hope you have some more good days.

Hang in there! HUGS,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Squirt's Mom

11-10-2012, 08:05 AM

Hi Leah,

Ya'll are in my thoughts and prayers daily. I know Maya appreciates all ya'll are doing for her, especially all the spoiling. ;) And I know how difficult it is to always be on the lookout for "that" sign; I know what it's like to see a medicine change or adjustment bring back some of our babies personality just when we think there is nothing left....then see the downward spiral start once again. Hope becomes a two-edged sword.

Through it all, your love for Maya shines for all to see and I know that love fills her Soul with a Light she will carry with her always.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

mytil

11-10-2012, 08:22 AM

Oh Leah,

I am so sorry. I know for sure these are difficult days for you and Maya. Keeping all of you in my thoughts.
(((hugs)))
Terry

addy

11-10-2012, 08:27 AM

Leah, we are all thinking of you and Maya.

Bo's Mom

11-10-2012, 09:18 AM

Leah,
Please give many hugs and those wonderful belly rubs to Maya. I know what you are experiencing and my heart breaks for you. I don't know if I will ever find the courage to do what we sometimes have to do for our babies but I know the love is there and you are giving it to your sweet baby girl. We are all here for you when you need us. I know I am depending on all of you to make it through.

Tina

11-11-2012, 10:19 AM

Oh Leah,

My heart is breaking for you as well and I am so sorry. I know all too well how difficult this is. You and Maya are in my thoughts and prayers every day.

Love and many hugs to you both,

Tina and Jasper

jmac

11-11-2012, 11:45 AM

Leah,

I am so sorry Maya isn't having more better days. The discussion/debate about "when" it is time is such a hard one. Maybe it isn't just the right time yet if neither of you are able to take that final step. I hope Maya will give you some sign to let you know it is the right time. It's so hard when things are up and down because you are always second guessing yourselves. Please know that we are all here for you to support you and help you through. In the meantime, continue giving Maya lots of love and kisses and tummy rubs.

Thinking of you...

Julie & Hannah

Maya

11-11-2012, 11:59 AM

Dear Friends, I thank you with all of my heart for all your prayers, warm wishes and constant support. It touches my heart....
My dear sweet little Maya passed away yesterday. We made the dreaded decision:( We just couldn't go on like that anymore. She was exhausted and I could see in her eyes that it was all becoming too much for her. I cannot believe how quick,peaceful and painless it was....maybe I should have done it sooner....
I held her precious little head in my arms and she was gone in seconds.
I feel as if my heart has been ripped out and stomped on. The grief is overwhelming, but she is free...
I told her to wait for me at the bridge...
Much love to you all..

jmac

11-11-2012, 12:08 PM

Leah,

I am so sorry for your loss and for the pain you are feeling right now. I am crying with you. But I am so glad it was so painless and peaceful for Maya. That is what is most important, and what we all hope it will be like for our "babies" in the end.

You can't wonder if you should have done it sooner and you shouldn't; yesterday was the right time. You felt certain and you had signs from her that it was time.

It's difficult for you right now because you miss her so much, but you are right that she is free, and she is waiting for you at the rainbow bridge. I hope that in time your mind will be filled with happy memories with Maya.

You're in my thoughts...

Julie & Hannah

Tina

11-11-2012, 12:21 PM

Leah,

I am crying as I type this, I am so incredibly sorry you have lost your sweet baby. My heart goes out to you and and I wish I could ease the pain you are feeling. I am glad Maya's passing was peaceful. Please don't second guess that you should have made the decision sooner. It is so difficult to know and to have the courage, but I feel Maya did let you know that it was time.

Leah, I so understand the feeling of your heart being ripped out. Just know that you will remain in my prayers. We are all here for you as you grieve. Maya was a beautiful dog, and her spirit will always be with you.

Huge hugs to you,

Tina and Jasper

frijole

11-11-2012, 12:23 PM

Leah, Gulp - it's hard for all of us. Don't second guess anything - you were wonderful and gave Maya a tremendous life surrounded with love. It is harder on those left behind as you know. Hold onto all the wonderful memories of healthier and happier times and may those times help you heal as you recover from your loss. Meanwhile know that we are here to help if we can.

Maya, dearest angel, run free of all pain and know you are missed by all of us. RIP sweet Maya, RIP. Kim

Squirt's Mom

11-11-2012, 12:34 PM

Dear Leah,

I am so sorry to hear this. No matter the circumstances, we are never ready to let them go. You and Maya both fought so hard, so courageously and lovingly. I know she left this old world filled with gratitude and love for all you have done on her behalf. Maya's suffering is ended; today she is strong and whole once again, watching over you with that same love and devotion until you meet again. And you will see her again, hold her again.

Our sincerest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, Brick, Tasha, and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal

May I Go

Do you think the time is right?
May I say goodbye to pain filled days and endless lonely nights?
I've lived my life and done my best, an example tried to be.
So can I take that step beyond, and set my spirit free?
I didn't want to go at first, I fought with all my might.
But something seems to draw me now to a warm and living light.
I want to go, I really do; it's difficult to stay.
But I will try as best I can to live just one more day.
To give you time to care for me and share your love and fears.
I know you're sad and afraid, because I see your tears.
I'll not be far, I promise that, and hope you'll always know,
That my spirit will be close to you wherever you may go.
Thank you so for loving me. You know I love you too,
And that's why it's hard to say goodbye and end this life with you.
So hold me now just one more time and let me hear you say,
Because you care so much for me, you'll let me go today.

by Susan A. Jackson

mytil

11-11-2012, 02:54 PM

Oh Leah,

I am so very sorry - my heart is just aching for you.

I know it is the toughest decision and yet when they ask you one more time to take care of them, it is the only thing we can do; even though our hearts break into a million pieces.

We are all here for you.
Always remembering sweetie pie Maya.
((((hugs))))
Terry

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-11-2012, 05:02 PM

I am so very sorry. hugs, Judi

addy

11-11-2012, 05:27 PM

Leah, I have no words just an ache in my heart for you and wishes that I could melt away the pain. It is so hard for us all to lose our perpetual children, they are an extension of us.

I am so deeply sorry.

BestBuddy

11-11-2012, 06:30 PM

Dear Leah,

I am so sorry to read Maya has passed. The gift of letting go is one that is very painful to you but it is the one that is most special to those we love. Remember her happy and healthy.

Godspeed Maya

Jenny

Bo's Mom

11-11-2012, 06:35 PM

Oh Leah,
I am so terribly sorry to read about Maya. I am crying a river for her right now.

Maya,
I want you to go run and stomp all over the Heavenly sky and keep watch on all of us knowing we will all be together once again. You are now free of all the pain you have suffered but know you have left many here who loved you dearly. Your memory will live in their hearts forever.

molly muffin

11-11-2012, 08:55 PM

Oh Leah :( HUGS I am sooo sorry that the day came. I can't decide if it seemed like the disease lasted forever, or if it was only a moment in time.

I just got home and came to check in, so just now seeing your post. My heart is just breaking for you and for Maya and your husband. More than a few tears here too. I am so very glad that the passing was peaceful. My Tasha went like that too, just quietly slipped away as I stroked her forehead, daring not to cry at the time in case she worried for me. (she hated it when I cried and would cry too)

Maya was such a sweetheart and the two of you went through such journeys together. I know that no matter where you are or when in your life, there will be a Maya angel, watching over you.

Big hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

lulusmom

11-11-2012, 09:21 PM

Leah, I am so very sorry for your loss. I lost one of my babies on Friday so I feel your pain very deeply. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Godspeed sweet Maya.

molly muffin

11-11-2012, 09:42 PM

oh Glynda, I'm sorry you are going through this heartache too. :( Big Hugs! Sharlene

LabDad

11-11-2012, 10:41 PM

So sorry about your dog, Maya. He looks like he was a handsome dog.

Boriss McCall

11-11-2012, 11:14 PM

Leah.. I am crying many tears for you & Maya tonight. :(
I am so sadden to read that Maya has passed. Wish I could help ease the pain.

big hugs

sunshinehoman

11-12-2012, 02:42 PM

So sorry to hear about Maya, You are a wonderful mommy and can be proud to have given Maya such a wonderful life!! We all dread the time when we have to make those hard decisions, and always second guess ourselves. But you know in your heart that Maya is happy and peaceful now and that is all that matters!

Shannon & Sunshine

Nikki

11-12-2012, 03:50 PM

Leah,
I'm so sorry to hear that Maya has passed :(. I haven't been on the site much since Max passed because I still tear up when I think about him, but I have been keeping updated through emails. I know the pain you are feeling, and nothing anyone says can truly make you feel better. I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am :(

cheydogger

11-13-2012, 12:28 AM

Leah-
I am new to this site, so I haven't traveled the journey with you. I just read your story this evening and I am so sorry to hear about Maya. I am deeply saddened for your loss. My heart is breaking.

Big hugs,

Ro

Cyn719

11-13-2012, 02:20 AM

Leah

I haven't been on in a while due to heath issues... I lost my beautiful penny in Aug ......still grieving ...,but I had to post and tell you I am so sorry for you lost.. I went they so much with my girl also..hopefully they will meet and run free together.

Hugs cindy

Trish

11-13-2012, 03:27 AM

HI Leah - I don't know you but just reading up on the stories on the board and want to send a big hug for you on the loss of your beautiful pup Maya, it sounds like she was a much loved girl and had such a fun life.. lucky her :)
Trish xx

Maya

11-15-2012, 11:57 AM

Dear friends, I'm overwhelmed by all your kind messages. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart. The past few days have been difficult to get through. That little dog was the center of my world and my whole routine revolved around her..then all of a sudden she was gone... I wandered around the house aimlessly, not knowing what to do with myself. I kept expecting to see her when I walked into the living room and every now and again I could have sworn than I heard her little nails tapping on the floor as she walked over to the door. Maya was a very calm, quiet dog. She did not make much noise at all, but her presence in the house was huge....all of a sudden there was this awful emptiness... Saying that I am devastated would be an understatement!
However, I have no regrets about helping Maya pass on. She is young again and free from pain. I know that I will see her again one day. Our bond is spiritual...sacred and nothing, not even death can ever sever that. I can feel her presence within me...
That little dog has taught me so much. The experience of that special relationship between us has enriched my life and I will use what I have learned to better myself...
The day she passed on I came home and got rid of everything I didn't want to remember. Her medication, medical records, the ramp we had made...all evidence of her disease. Her bed and basket of toys remain. We have ordered a large canvas of our favorite photo which will take it's place on our living room wall. I want to see her in every room of our house, so we've ordered quite a few photos to put up in various places.:)
Her ashes are due back sometime next week. We are going to make up a little table in her honor where we will keep a candle burning every evening to remind us of the light and warmth she brought into our lives. God bless you my little Boo...I love you so very much!
I will be checking in to see how you all are doing. You are not getting rid of me that easy!:p
Lots of love and hugs to you all
Leah and little Maya Boo

Boriss McCall

11-15-2012, 12:11 PM

What a heart warming post about your sweet Maya. We never want you to leave. You are such a positive person & you bring such a peaceful presence to this forum.

I know you heart is hurting & you feel empty right now. It is the worst feeling a human can have. :(

I am glad you are spreading her light all over your house.

hugs

marie adams

11-15-2012, 02:22 PM

Dearest Leah,

I am so sorry for your loss of Maya.

That little dog was the center of my world and my whole routine revolved around her..then all of a sudden she was gone... I wandered around the house aimlessly, not knowing what to do with myself. I kept expecting to see her when I walked into the living room and every now and again I could have sworn than I heard her little nails tapping on the floor as she walked over to the door. Maya was a very calm, quiet dog. She did not make much noise at all, but her presence in the house was huge....all of a sudden there was this awful emptiness... Saying that I am devastated would be an understatement!
However, I have no regrets about helping Maya pass on. She is young again and free from pain. I know that I will see her again one day. Our bond is spiritual...sacred and nothing, not even death can ever sever that. I can feel her presence within me...
That little dog has taught me so much. The experience of that special relationship between us has enriched my life and I will use what I have learned to better myself...

What you have said is how I felt with the passing of Maddie. It is a hard decision to have to make, but in the end you know it was right. I can tell you not to second guess if you should have done it sooner or not because it is just part of the process of grieving.

I love your tribute to Maya!!!:):)

Take care and they didn't get rid of me also--here to stay to help and share the adventures as we move on.....:)

addy

11-15-2012, 02:23 PM

What a beautiful post and what a warm spirit you have, Leah.

I think you did the right thing by getting rid of the negative energy of the recent past.

I bet the canvas photo will be stunning!!!

Dont even think of going anywhere, you are family:D:D:D

molly muffin

11-15-2012, 04:10 PM

Well, here I am again, at work, crying. These people are going to think I'm bonkers.
Leah, that was so beautiful and so heart warming. I love the idea of a canvas of Maya. What a wonderful thing to do.
Oh no no no. You cannot leave us and break our hearts too! We'd miss you!!!!!
I'm sorry that this is so hard, it is the price of great love to feel great grief also.

HUGS! Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Bo's Mom

11-16-2012, 07:38 AM

Leah,
I love the idea of remembering Maya. I hope you don't mind if I steal it. :)
Please don't leave because you are one of us and who can share the many experiences and memories you had with Maya. I know that bond will never be broken and we all here share your pain you are feeling. Thanks for sharing.

Tina

11-17-2012, 11:57 AM

Dear Leah,

What a beautiful post about your sweet girl. So much of what you wrote is exactly what I felt and still feel about my precious Lab who I lost over 4 years ago. Our bond will never be broken, and her spirit is always with me. I still miss her terribly, but yet I know she is always with me, she is my Angel.

I have a small curio type of cabinet in my living room, and have her ashes on top, along with a candle, a picture of her, her collar, and an Angel figurine with outstretched arms, always watching over her. This is my memorial to honor her, and I burn a candle most every night, and all day on the weekends while I am home. I have photos of her in every room also.

I share the pain and loss that you are feeling and think about you every day. I am so glad to read that you will still be checking in on the site. Please don't leave. You are part of this family, and I would really miss you.

Love and hugs to you and Angel Maya,

Tina and Jasper

Boriss McCall

01-03-2013, 10:13 PM

Hi Leah,
I was just thinking about you & sweet angel Maya today. I hope your heart is feeling better.

I wanted to wish you a Happy New Year.

hugs

milosmom

01-04-2013, 05:32 AM

hi leah...i was just reading your story about your baby maya and i am wishing you peace in your heart.i recently helped my milo over the rainbow bridge a little more then 2 weeks ago.my heart is shattered and will take some time to put back together.i also have had pictures all around,even at my office of he and his sister meka since i had them just 6 years.meka is also so lonely without her brother but we keep snuggling,hugging and kissing and also look for the peace in our hearts to come....take care...patty(milo)meka xoxox

Maya

01-06-2013, 04:47 PM

Thanks for thinking of me, Amy. Happy New year to you too...lets hope it's a good one for all of us!
Thank you Patty for your kind wishes. I did read some of the posts in your thread, but missed the one about Milo's passing. So sorry to hear of your heart break. I know how awful it is.....
I have to admit, the past two months have been very tough. Just when I start to think I am coming to terms with Maya's absence, I'm hit right in the teeth with a 'sledge hammer' of grief. I know that things will get better in time and that this is a normal part of the grieving process, but I also know that small place within me will always remain hollow and I value that. I believe that quiet abiding feeling is one of God's ways of sustaining that deep connection between myself and my precious little Maya, until we are reunited once more.
Happy New Year to you all, my dear friends!:)
Lots of love 'n' hugs, Leah