First dose of Lysodren (15 y/o Jack Russell, Molson)

[Molliebear]

Hi,
We have a 15 year old Jack Russell, Molson, that will be given his fist dose of Lysodren tomorrow. To say we are nervous is an understatment. He already has early kidney failure and was recently diagnosed with Cushing's disease. I have been reading about the horrible side effects online and and am beyond scared of this drug. Any advice? We are already having a hard time getting him to eat so we have to add boiled chicken to his kidney diet. I am afraid this drug will worsen the kidney failure.

Thank you for your feedback!
Amy and Molson

[BestBuddy]

Hi Amy and welcome to you and Molson.

I took the liberty of moving you post to the discussion forum so people will see it.

Nervous is fine....we all go through this and it helps us keep an eye on how our dogs is doing.

I didn't use Lysodren but others certainly have with good results so all I can do is wish you luck.

Jenny

[Molliebear]

Thank you Jenny! I am so happy that I have found the group and am hoping to read some positive stories about Lysodren.
Amy

[BestBuddy]

Glad to see you made it here.

You will get some great info and support as soon as the other members see your thread.

Jenny

[labblab]

Dear Amy,

Welcome from me, too!! I am so glad that you and Molson have found us. You will find many members here who are also treating their dogs with Lysodren -- and with success :).

As Jenny says, it is very normal to be nervous. It always feels hard to give that very first pill, wondering what the outcome will be. But when used properly, Lysodren is a wonderful drug because it allows our Cushpups to regain a normal quality of life.

Can you tell us a bit more about Molson's medical history, and also about the testing that was done to diagnose his Cushing's? Any actual test results that you can share would be a "plus." Also, did the testing give you an indication as to whether he is suffering from the adrenal or the pituitary form of the disease? Any additional info that you can give us about Molson's situation will help us to provide our best feedback and support.

Once again, welcome!!
Marianne

[labblab]

Also, can you tell us how much Molson weighs, and what dose of Lysodren he will be taking?

Thanks!!!

[Molliebear]

Thank you Marianne!
I am embarrassed to say that I do not know what type of Cushing's Molson was diagnosed with a few weeks ago. After spending hours reading several posts on this forum I will be requesting this information tomorrow along with a prescription of prednisone. I can't explain how happy I am to have found this group to educate myself on this disease. I gave him his first dose of Lysodren (250 mg) this morning and have not left his side! He has been sleeping and has shown no signs of an allergic reaction. Thank you again for all of your support!

Amy and Molson

[Molliebear]

Molson weighs 24 pounds and will be taking 250 mg, once a day for 3 days.

[labblab]

Oh Amy, there is no reason at all to be embarrassed. It may very well be the case that the testing thus far has not distinguished the type of Cushing's. And unless you would be considering surgery in the event that Molson has adrenal Cushing's (which you might not even consider due to his age), your vet might be choosing to proceed with Lysodren regardless of the Cushing's type.

Prior to my own dog being diagnosed with Cushing's, I never requested copies of test results when he went to the vet. So I would never have known any exact "numbers." Once I joined this group, however, I learned that it is really helpful to keep my own file with copies of tests and other important information. That way, I could refer back to see for myself how things had progressed or changed. But most people do not obsessively keep records like we do here...:o So there is no need at all to apologize. You will have plenty of time to gather more information. ;)

Marianne

[labblab]

Molson weighs 24 pounds and will be taking 250 mg, once a day for 3 days.
Amy, you may already have seen this, but here is a link to some helpful info and tips related to Lysodren loading:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

Can you tell us what will happen at the end of the three days? Has your vet asked to check back in at that time, regardless of whether or not Molson shows signs of being "loaded" on the Lysodren?

Marianne

[labblab]

Me again! :o

In addition to the three-day time period, I also want to double-check with you again as to Molson's loading dosage. Is he only getting the 250 mg. of Lysodren once a day? Per that link that I gave you above, typical loading protocol advises that a dog be loaded on a dose that approximates 50 mg. per kg. So given Molson's weight (24 pounds is approx. 10+ kilograms), that would work out to around 500 mg. per day. So perhaps you are instead giving Molson the 250 mg. twice a day?

(Sorry for so many questions right off the bat, but hopefully they will end up being helpful!!)

Marianne

[Molliebear]

Hi Marianne,
I am supposed to check in with my vet tomorrow and update him on how Molson is reacting to the Lysodren. It is my understanding that after the 3 days, I am supposed to give him 250 mg once a week for 3 weeks and then take him back for testing.

Amy

[Molliebear]

Hi Marianne,
No, I am only supposed to give him a 1/2 a tablet each day for 3 days. I had called my vet after reading several other very negative websites about Lysodren and expressed my concerns reagarding the drug. He assured me that Molson would be able the handle the dosage because what he prescribed was at the low end. Maybe Molson's levels were not at high so he would not need a higher dosage? We are 2 hours into this and he looks miserable! I gave him the pill in peanut butter which did not seem to go over well. (This is how he takes his Pepcid and Omega 3 pills) Any other ideas on how to give him the pill?

Thank you again for everything!!
Amy

[labblab]

Thanks for this additional info, Amy. I am wondering whether there is perhaps a reason why your vet does not want Molson to undergo a full Lysodren load, maybe because of the kidney issues? Because as you will see from that related link, typical loading protocol recommends that a dog be loaded at a dosage high enough to erode the adrenal glands to the extent that some behavioral changes are observed (hesitation in eating and/or drinking) and a monitoring ACTH test performed right at the time of the loading indicates that cortisol has been lowered into the desired therapeutic range. It is only when sufficient erosion has occured (confirmed by ACTH testing) that the dosing shifts to the maintenance phase (doses spread out over a week's time rather than given daily).

I will shut up for now and let other members also comment :o, but it seems to me as though your vet is not aiming at a complete load, given the low Lysodren dosage and the limited dosing time period.

To help us better understand your vet's goal, can you tell us more about Molson's Cushing's symptoms and history? What led you all to first suspect that he has Cushing's?

Marianne

[Molliebear]

I am assuming it is his age (15yrs old) and his recent diagnosis of early kidney failure. I also have been having a very hard time getting him to eat and drink any water at all. He used to eat Royal Canin SO for his bladder issues which made him drinks lots of water. Since we have switched his food to Royal Canin LP for kidney disease he stopped drinking all water. I have to add boiled chicken, garlic powder and watered down low sodium chicken broth to the wet food to get him to eat. We take him to the vet atleast once a month for something and he does not show any signs of dehydration. Molson's struggle with food is common with kidney disease dogs and is truly a daily battle for me. One day he will gobble down his food and the next you can see it in his face that the smell of the food just turns his stomach. I have added baby food and switched his food twice already to keep him interested in eating.
Our vet is the one who suggested we test for Cushing's disease. A few months back Molson started losing hair in random spots and I took him to the doctor. He did not seem to be to concerned about it however suggested we consider testing him for Cushings. After reading some of the websites and the symptoms I really did not feel Molson had any of them besides the hair loss. He kept mentioning it to us and finally (thank goodness we did!) we few weeks ago we did the test which came back positive.

[lulusmom]

Hi Amy,

I'd like to apologize up front for all of the questions I am about to ask but based on the limited information you have provided, it is unusual that a vet would prescribe Lysodren to a very senior dog who is not eating due to advanced kidney disease. Can you tell us what symptoms Molson has that lead your vet to start testing for cushing's and what was the motivating factor to get Molson on Lysodren? Perhaps he thought the high cortisol would worsen the already impaired kidney function?

If Molson's loss of appetite is due to kidney dysfunction, I would classify his kidney disease as severe, at the moment anyway, and it is not recommended to give Lysodren to a dog with severe kidney disease. It is also not recommended to give Lysodren to a dog who is sick and a cushdog who is not eating should be considered sick. Are you giving Molson a phosphorus binder to help with the nausea?

Any additional information you can provide will be very helpful.

Glynda

[lulusmom]

Hi again,

I was pulled away from my computer for a while and see that you posted while I was busy. Thanks for the additional information.

It is unusual for a dog with kidney failure so severe as to cause inappetence to not be drinking voluminous amounts of water. The same is true for most dogs with Cushing's. Dogs with cushing's almost always have a voracious appetite too so the pieces of the puzzle are still not fitting together. I am sure that once you get your hands on the test results and post them here, the light bulb will probably go on.

Cushing's is the most difficult canine disease to diagnose which makes it the most misdiagnosed condition as well. If there was one test out there that was reliable, it wouldn't be necessary for us pet owners to spend so much for the multiple tests that are needed in order to confirm a diagnosis. You mentioned that your vet did a test but I'm hoping he did more than one, yes?

Glynda

[Molliebear]

Hi Glynda,
Molson does not have severe advanced kidney disease. He was diagnosed with stage one because his BUN level was at a 41 however all other levels were within normal range. We had his BUN rechecked at the same time as the Cushing's test and it was lowered to 25 which is within normal range as well. The eating issues are very common with renal dogs and he does eat well everyday with extra incentive in his bowl. No, Molson does not take a phosphate binder but he does take a 1/2 a pepcid twice a day to help with the stomach acid. I brought up Molson's kidney issue and the Vet was very confident that he was more than capable of handling the Lysodren. I am certain our Vet would not steer us in the wrong direction with Molson knowing his past history. Since moving to Michigan 4 years ago he was provided exceptional care for him! I am going to request his test results tomorrow to provide additional information for everyone.
Thank you,
Amy

[Molliebear]

Hi there,
I am not sure? We took him in and they took blood, gave him a hormone shot and then we took him back an hour later for more bloodwork. We have Molson's bloodwork checked every 4 months to make sure all of his organs are functioning properly. I am not really educated enough on the testing to comment on his behalf.

[labblab]

Hi again, Amy. It sounds as though the diagnostic blood test that was performed on Molson was the ACTH. That will be great if you are able to obtain that result today, as well as any other abnormal lab values that are factoring into his medical condition.

I will also remain very interested in further updates as to your vet's expectations regarding the Lysodren treatment. As you can tell, the path that you are following differs from the traditional Cushing's treatment protocol with which we are familiar. So to that extent, unfortunately I don't feel as though I can yet offer very helpful feedback as to the goals that your vet is aiming for. But it sounds as though you have had an excellent working relationship with him through the years, and so I am hoping that the overall picture will become clearer to us as we gain more information about Molson's situation.

How is Molson doing this morning?

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

I have not posted to you before but have been following what is going on. I noticed that one of things you stated you were doing to get Molson to eat was the following:

.
I have to add boiled chicken, garlic powder

Please make sure that you are not giving any canned broth, soup, or anything containing onions. Anything containing onions can cause a life threatening problem called Heinz body anemia in our pups.

Debbie

[MBK]

Hi, Amy -

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this with Molson. I am also new to this, so I am just as confused and worried as you are. I have a 13 year old, female Jack Russell named Alivia. Ali was recently diagnosed with an adrenal tumor and I am trying to make a decision as to what treatment would be best for her. Seems I read good and bad about everything! Ali, like Molson, also has some early kidney issues. About the only thing I am sure of at this point is I will not risk surgery at her age.

I also have a male JRT, Maxwell, who will be 11 years old this summer and fortunately remains very healthy. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I wish you and Molson well and look forward to hearing GOOD reports on him!

My heart is owned by two JRTs and we are keeping you in our thoughts,

Mary Beth and Alivia (and Maxwell)

[addy]

Hi Amy,

I just wanted to check in and see how Molson is doing. I hope we did not make you nervous with all our questions.:)

I'm hoping you and Molson are okay.

Thinking of you,

Addy

[Molliebear]

Hi Amy,

I just wanted to check in and see how Molson is doing. I hope we did not make you nervous with all our questions.:)

I'm hoping you and Molson are okay.

Thinking of you,

Addy

Hi Addy,
Yes, all of the questions did make me nervous and I logged off. Honestly, I joined the site to read other owners stories and see how their dogs were reacting to certain medications. I was not comfortable with the medical advice and questions that were being asked.
I am happy to say that Molson is doing well after 3 weeks. He completed his loading phase and is now taking 1 dosage each week. We appreciate all of the kind words and support from everyone.

Amy & Molson

[MBK]

Amy -

I am so happy to hear that Molson is doing so well! Ali will be starting Lysodren soon, so I hope she will be as successful.

[labblab]

Dear Amy,

I am really sorry if anything I said or asked made you feel uncomfortable. I am so glad that Molson is doing well, and I hope you will continue to keep us updated from this point onward! :)

Marianne

[addy]

Hey Amy,

We are here for you for whatever you need. We are harmless really and our hearts are in the right place:D:D

You know, sometimes the written word can take on a different context then perhaps what was meant. We probably need more emotion icons;););):rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::p

Yea for Molson!!!!:D:D You got through the hard part.

I'm proud of you!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[MBK]

Hi, Amy -

Did you ever find out the cause of Molson's cushing's - was it pituitary or an adrenal tumor? I am very intereted in knowing because your Lysodren treatment seems to be working well. My vet has prescribed a very similar dose for my JRT, Alivia, who has an adrenal tumor. I sure would love to hear a success story. :)

[Molliebear]

Hi Mary Beth,
I never asked my Vet what type of Cushing's Molson was diagnosed with a few weeks ago. I will find out for you though when I take him in again. He took another dose of Lysdoren today and is sleeping. Usually for the first 5 hours he is really tired and sleeps alot. He takes one more dose before we go back for another checkup so I am hoping we can call him a sucess story then!

Take care,
Amy & Molson

[MBK]

Amy,

Thanks for the update! I will keep my fingers crossed for him that the treatment continues to go well! Jack Russells are feisty little ones!

[addy]

Hi Amy,

How is Molson doing? I thought I would stop by and say hi and check up on the two of you.;) I hope eveything is okay.

Thinking of you both.

Hugs,
Addy