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amers199
02-25-2011, 09:28 PM
Hey gang,

My name is a Amy and I am new. New to this group and new to Cushing's Disease. I've had dachshunds for the past 15 years and have had all kinds of medical issues come up and thought I had it under control until my 13 year old dachshund, Chopper Stokes was diagnosed with Cushing's last November. Since then I've been lost...just when you think you understand and have one thing figured out about this disease, one little lab value or symptom or other piece of info messes it up and you are searching again.

Curretnly I have two concerns: diet and mood

I am not sure what info you guys need to help me but here are the basics...Mr. Chopper is 13 years old. He showed signs and symptoms about a year prior to being diagnosed. Last Summer we did lab work to see if he should be tested for Cushing's and it was borderline so the vet told me to keep an eye on his symptoms and if they got worse to come back. They got worse fairly fast and he was diagnosed in November. In addition to Cushing's he also has spondylosis which is a deformity in his spine and has caused the four disks between his shoulder blades to collapse and fuse together so he pretty much looks like a stegosaurus. Curretnly he is on the following meds and supplements: Vetoryl 30 mg 1 x per day, Tramadol 50 mg 1/2 tab 2-3 x per day as needed, Rimadyl 25 mg 1 tab every 2-3 days, Duralactin 1000 mg per day

I feed Orijen Senior Formula since it has the joint care supplements already in the kibble and mix it with my home made blend of dog food. My home made blend is a rotation of the following: brown rice, barley, lentils, sweet potato, carrots, zucchini, kale, green beans, peas, apples, chicken, turkey, lean ground beef and talapia. I mix and match and make it into a stew. Chopper also gets a spoonful of plain non fat greet yougurt every other day and fiber cookies when needed. Since Chopper's skin is crazy due to Cushing's and just in case of allergies it was suggested that I bulk up my food with sweet potato and the other veggies and back off the barley, rice and lentils. I did that. And thus the mixture Chopper was eating twice a day.

Rimadyl is new to the mix of meds. While the vet was double checking to make sure it could be given with the Vetoryl he told me to be careful with giving bananas and yogurt because we needed to watch Chopper's potassium level. I asked why...because of the disease or the meds and he told me because of the Vetoryl. Have any of you heard of this or that potassium is a concern with the Vetoryl? Chopper had bloodwork done about a month ago...everything looked great compaired to last November...his liver values were much better...one was still really high, not as high as it was but it was expected because he is a Cushing's dog. Eveything else looked great except for his potassium level. It was fairly high. I was told to check his diet...back off the sweet potato and let's start working on getting his potassium down. I started checking through all my home made ingredients and became so discouraged since all had potassium and not knowing how much he should have and which items were the most beneficial to his diet and immune system with the potassium that I now have him on Orijen and a mixture of talpia, barley and green beans.

Any suggestions on what you all feed your kids and what tips you have for me would be greatly appreciated. I feel like his diet and tummy and digestive system was much better with all the other veggies and fruit and protiens. Flaxseed was also suggested to me by my vet which I have not started yet. I am looking to have him on the best thing I can have. We did have a bout with colitis not too long ago which was awful and I was told Cushing's dogs could get this from time to time and he was on a round of antbiotics for that..so I want to boost his immune system and do what I can for his Cushing's as far as his diet is concered.

Mr. Chopper's mood hasn't been the best as you can imagine. I thought that his grumpy butt had issues because of he pain from his spondylosis and figured with the meds he is on for that he should be much more comfortable at this point. He does seem to move around better and is more alert and has a little spunk back but my goodness he is one mean doggie. Mean as a snake. My vet told me that this is a side effect and due to the extra steroid production in his body from Cushing's. If this is true and all of his other symptoms are being controlled with the Vetoryl...shouldn't his mood be more improved. It has taken me from November up until about two weeks ago to get all of his symptoms under control...I see his skin improving...his hair growing back...his pot piggy belly is gone...he finally quit being ravenously hungry and just last week the massvie drinking binges finally stopped...he no longer wakes me up 500 times a night to get to the water bowl and drink excessively then get back up to potty every hour. I feel like his symptoms are now better controlled except for the fact he's mean. He growls and snapps at the other dogs here that he's lived with for years, he will not tolerate anyone in his space for any reason now except for his wife Chili dog who he is bonded with and he's just mean and snappy and he was not even close to being this way prior to Cushing's. Do you all think this is a symptom and product of Cushing's or is he just getting old and grumpy and crazy? Do any of you have any experience with this and if so how have you handled it?

I hope I have posted properly and given all information needed for any tips and tricks. Feel free to let me know if you all need any additional info from me and I look forward to your responses!

Thanks,

Amy and Mr. Chopper Stokes

BestBuddy
02-25-2011, 09:45 PM
Hi Amy and welcome to you and Mr Stokes!

Do you have any of the test result numbers, there are many here who can understand and interpret Lab numbers, especially ACTH results.

Most here all use different diets so hopefully someone will be along to give you some suggestions. My Buddy has been gone for so long now that I am a long way behind current food trends.

I wonder if your boy is going through the cortisol withdrawal known here as the "yukkies".

Jenny

amers199
02-25-2011, 09:50 PM
I do have his inital blood work results with me now...I will have to get a copy of his most recent blood work from the vet...which I can do in the morning to show where is levels started and where they are now.

What is this "yuckiees" I need to hear more about this! You think the fact his cortosol production is being controlled now that he's having withdrawls? This is new to me and a first...I would love to know all I can about this because he's so freaking mean! Does this mean that the Vetoryl maybe doing TOO good of a job?

AlisonandMia
02-25-2011, 10:25 PM
Hi and welcome from me as well.

I haven't got a lot of time at the moment (got to go out shortly) but I've got a few questions: Does this aggression/irritability extend to you and other people or is it something that is only happening with the other dogs? Has he ever been aggressive in the past? (Is this an increase in a behavior that he's shown in the past or something completely new?) Is he neutered and are your other dogs neutered/spayed? Was he like this before treatment or is it something you are seeing now he has been treated?

Unlike humans with Cushing's (or on corticosteroids) dogs with high cortisol levels are not usually aggressive (except maybe food aggressive because of the ravenous appetite).

The one endocrine condition linked to aggression in dogs is hypothyroidism.

Alison

BestBuddy
02-25-2011, 10:28 PM
Hi Amy,

I am struggling with a slow internet connection at the moment so cannot provide any links. Cortisol withdrawal can make your dog feel unwell, when you don't feel well you can be pretty mean. Also the recommended ACTH post number while on Vetoryl is 1-9 (I think, cannot check at the moment) and some dogs do well at the lower range and some need to be in the higher. Do you know the last ACTH monitoring numbers.

Check out our Helpful Resources section for Vetoryl/Trilostane info.

Another thought, quite often cushings dogs can have a thyroid problem, has this been checked?

Jenny

zoesmom
02-26-2011, 09:37 AM
Hi and welcome -

I agree with Alison. The aggression isn't something we expect to see in cushings. But hypothyroidism can trigger it. In fact, it is the one of the most common presenting symptoms of that condition. Many owners take their dogs to the vet for the unexplained change in behavior, only to find out that the dog's thyroid levels are low. So if that hasn't been checked out, it would be a good starting point. Some cush dogs have low thyroid levels which resolve, once the cortisol goes down. But others can have both conditions at the same time. The full thryoid panel is a good test, but a simple check of the T4 levels might tell you what you need to know. The medicine is not expensive either. Sue

addy
02-26-2011, 10:03 AM
Hi and Welcome,

One other thing comes to my mind. My Zoe has high intermediate hormones besides cortisol especially, estradiol. As the estradiol came back to normal and other hormones came down, her mood improved. Dr. Oliver from UTK said some of those hormones other than cortisol can cause hot flashes and moodiness.

Is it possible the Vetoryl is increasing some of the other hormones and causing grumpiness? Just a thought since I did see my Zoe's mood improve when those intermediate hormones came down. I know it is theoretical.

I too have read about hypothyroidism causing aggression in dogs and agree that could be possible. Dr. Jean Dodd has written much about behavior problems being caused by it and sometimes the thyroid is borderline clinically and one will be told you don't need to treat but for that particular dog, borderline may be too low.

Glad you found us.

Addy

Harley PoMMom
02-26-2011, 11:36 AM
Hi and welcome from me and my boy, Harley. Hyperkalemia (high potassium) is usually due to decreased renal excretion of potassium, due to renal failure, urinary tract obstruction or rupture, or hypoaldosteronism.

On Mr. Chopper's Chemistry panel, his creatinine and BUN are with-in the normal ranges, right?

What were the results of his Urinalysis? Was an ultrasound done on Mr. Chopper?

Aggression can be one of the symptoms of Hypothyroidism and Dr. Dodds article about this can be found here: Thyroid Disease, Diagnostic and Treatment Misunderstandings (Dodds) . (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1627)



As far as Vetoryl elevating potassium levels, according to Dechra's U.S. Product Insert. (http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechraUSA/downloads/Product%20inserts/Vetoryl.pdf)

Potassium sparing diuretics (e.g. spironolactone) should not be used with VETORYL Capsules, as both drugs have the potential to inhibit aldosterone, increasing the likelihood of hyperkalemia.

Rimadyl is hard on our cush-pup's liver and Rimadyl has been linked to the death of dogs using it.


Rimadyl, like other drugs of its class, is not free from adverse reactions. Serious adverse reactions associated with this drug class can occur without warning and in rare situations result in death.
http://www.doglogic.com/rimadyllabel.htm

So sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but glad you found this forum, we will help you in any way we can.

Love and hugs,
Lori