Vetoryl / Cushings Disease - Dear Penny has passed

[Cyn719]

She doesn't like potatoes:). She is so fussy...but I will mix the hamburger with he chicken.....it will be something different...thanks:).Flagyl says may cause diarrhea..really I thought it would get rid if it??? so when can I start to add in hr canned food??

[Altira]

If you have used the Metronidazole for a couple days and haven't seen any improvement at all then you could stop. You can always start it again. If her poop isn't watery, or bloody, or slimy and she isn't asking to go out every half hour, or straining. Then she's probably not in serious distress. But what do I know.

I gave it to Neeka for two weeks when she was three months old and her poop never got better. I changed foods and in a couple more weeks she was fine. It was just a mussy problem like Penny's. I gave just one pill to Kira recently and it cleared up her "watery" poop right away.

I'd go back to whatever she was eating when she was having normal poops. Or ask the vet about some sort of diet that's good for the liver.

Did you try the slippery elm?

Is her face still swelled up? Has the drooling stopped? What about the moaning you said she was doing a couple weeks ago? Go for a walk maybe? What about her breath? Will she let you look in her mouth? You have an apointment to a recheck? Maybe make a list of questions.

Do you have a fax machine? I often send faxes to the vet. That way you have your questions all written out for them. Instead of having the reseptionist having to relay to the vet. If it's sitting right there on their desk they might be more apt to pick up the phone when they have a free moment. Or maybe an email address. I don't know.

[addy]

Cindy, depending on the cause and severity of the loose stool, it is not unusal for the Flagyl to take more than a few days to get things normal. Zoe has some serious flares and sometimes it was day 5 before I saw normal stool. Adding in to the mix differrent food for Penny, I would not be suprised if it took longer. You can stop it whenever you want if it is not helping.


Is her stool soft serve? any mucus? how many times a day? Has there been any change in her stool at all since the flagyl? Are you giving the flagyl with food?

love you,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

How is Penny this morning?

Be very careful switching feed right now - it might cause worse diarrhea. ;)

Also, I would have tried the slippery elm bark before using the Flagyl - but that is just me; I usually prefer the mildest, non-pharmaceutical approach first. ;) I have had such good luck with it and it has none of the side effects that can happen with Flagyl or other such meds. Plus, it is so inexpensive to use for us - 1/4 - 1/2 tsp. usually does the trick.

Let us know how things are today.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Hi all

Today Penny ate twice ..... 2 small meals of chicken rice and I added in some canned food....
Her stool today started to formed...just a bit soft...she goes very small amounts...assuming cause she is eating so blan...when it started her stool was like melted soft serve with alittle mucous..she was going like only 4 times a day
Tonight will be her 4th Flagyl .... Which the vet said to give with food cause her stomach is sensitive....its says to ise fr a a week but tech say i could stop sooner....So I am going to ask vet in the morning if I can stop it..just hate to stop it then it comes back. Really need to get her on dog food so he can get her nutrition!

He face is not swollen now.

Still thought it was weird no antibiotics but Dr. Joo didn't give then the last time she had her other tooth out??

Thanks for all all your continuous help:)....very much appreciated.
Will check back to see your advice in stopping he pill:)

Hugs xoox

[labblab]

Cindy, if it was me, I'd keep giving Penny the Flagyl until her poops are well-formed again. It's great that you're seeing some improvement, so it sounds as though she is responding favorably to the med. I'd continue it for at least another day or two in order to really get her GI tract settled down again. As you say, why risk back-sliding?

I've used Flagyl a lot with my dogs through the years. We've not had any negative effects and it has always worked well in clearing up diarrhea. Certainly do check with the vet in the morning if you have questions/doubts. But if Penny seems to be doing better, I'd stick with it for a while longer until she's really back to normal.

Marianne

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-
I've caught up on the past week's thread....it sounds like everything is going well for Penny. I'm glad the tooth removal went well. That's one thing off the list! :D

Take care and give Penny a BIG hug!
-Susan

[Altira]

I agree. If she is responding keep doing what you are doing. No more swelling! I feel so much better! Way to go mom! :-)

[Cyn719]

Thanks ladies ---:D

Marianne I just read your post to my husband and he agreed with what you said staying on it a few more days - you are right its just starting to get better - why stop now:)

hugs xoxoxoxo

[addy]

Wise choice Cindy, I'm glad you are gloing to give the Flaygl some more time.

One trick I learned from a holistic vet was to wean Zoe off it, rather than stopping all at once, though most vets will say that is oaky. For Zoe, it was always better to wean her off of it. It used to be when she only took it for flare ups, I would go to every other day, then 3 x a week, then 2 times a week, then off.

When Zoe was on it for longer periods of time, I had to wean her off it much differenlty.

Just a thought, depending on how Penny does.

love,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Just popping in to say I hope you all had a restful night and a great start on the day ahead!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Hi

Spoke to the IMS she said yes continue the Flagyl...better safe than sorry. Weaning Penning off the pain meds - trying to give a half during the night and her usual one to one and a half at bedtime. Introducted her canned food more today - and cut back on the rice - she did well. She so wanted a treat - so I gave her a soft twistie - vet said she could handle it - she was so happy but without that back molar she is having a heck of a time - she always chewed on the back left and cant now. She will adjust sonner or later :)

xo

[mypuppy]

Oh how very sweet and awesome that Penny girl wanted a treat...:p

Awwwww.....so glad her tummy's grumbling for food. YAY, YAY..:)

Love you both,

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Cyn719]

Hi Jeanette

She ate 2 cans of dog food today with some chicken.....she was asking for food at 930 tonite too. Also had 2 treats....IMS said she would like to see her eat 2.5 to 3 cans of canned food a day... Don't worry about the kibble just yet. Poor girl is having a hard time biting into her treats and chewing them....she is so use to using her left side....shes not getting it to switch to the other side....most of her missing teeth are from the left side...it's strange to watch:D colitis is much better also. It's good....just have the live tumor in my head so it's hard...but I try to put it aside...

Love and hugs xoxo

[Altira]

Bless her furry butt... She made this hurdle with flying colors!!! That says a lot. So maybe in a month or so you do another CBC. You don't want to forget what you know. Maybe things will get better. They say that poor teeth can effect the liver and kidneys. The liver can heal itself. Kira's did to some degree after Cushings was cured.

Have you ever used one of those treat dispensing balls. That's how Kira gets her meals sometimes. She has to push this ball around to get her food. Gets her up and moving around. Put Pennys regular kibble in it.

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
I'm glad to hear Penny is eating and hanging in there... :)

Julie & Hannah

[Keiko's Mom]

Hi there...joint chews that we use are Butler Schein S3 soft chews (Amazon has the best price) she gets 2 a day and I really think they help alot. Hoping the best for you....you have been the best mommy, for sure. If you can feed it, cottage cheese makes for a nice treat.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

How are things going? Hope you and Penny are able to enjoy your days more and more as her face heals.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

I was trying hard to not be a pest. But if Leslie can then so can I! LOL
Everything ok Cindy?

[Cyn719]

Hi Ladies -

sorry I didnt post. Dad went back to the hospital on Monday for more antibiotic IVs - came home yesterday - still seems the same - the cellulitis is still there - now he has a hernia and get this the nurse forgot to take the IV needle out of his arm and he didnt notice till he got home (he didnt feel it after being in for 3 days) Well after I sat outside the hospital for 2hrs waiting for him to be discharge the nurse said come back so I can take it out - oh noooo I was not going back so good thing my husband is on rescue:D he took it out

penny is doing ok - still only wants soft food - front legs are now having problems - her mouth is better - not swollen - but she is having a heck of a time eating - she only chews on her left side - and she doesnt get it how to switch sides - so its so funny when she eats - the head jerks all around! she is also licking her private alot after she pees - that is usually the sign UTI is back but the vet said she highly doubts is but if it continues she will check it

hugs to all xoxoxoxo

[Altira]

Oh gee so sorry to hear about your dad! And the needle in his arm... Poor guy! Give him a hug for me..

And poor Penny. She's been through a lot too huh? Not to mention you! Doesn't seem fair.

I wonder if Penny is cramming food up into the hole where the tooth came out. Did they stitch her up at all? They set her up for a recheck right? It shouldn't be hurting her now. Good idea to stick with the soft food. I'm also concerned that she isn't getting enough pain meds. Kira got horrible Incontenance with tramadol. Do you have any Gabapentin on hand. Maybe you could give that another try just by its self?

[Altira]

That Slippery Elm stuff worked wonders for my Neeka! She had mushy poop for five days... I added the SE to her food (3 times) and "Wah-Lah" all normal now.

This is what I did.
I bought some "Now Slippery Elm - powder" from Amazon.com. It didn't cost very much. I added a teaspoon to 8 ounces of water and put it in the microwave for the equivalent of about 5 minutes of simmering. Let it cool then added three tablespoons to her food. (She is 45 lbs) I did that in the morning and evening and again the next morning. By that afternoon we have perfect poops. Why we had mushy poops in the first place I'm not sure.

Leslie did mention not to give other meds at the same time. To give at least two hours in between for that.

This is an all natural thing and at least for Neeka works as well as Metrondozal.

[Cyn719]

She finishes the Flagyl tomorrow night. Stool was ok today. She is eating .... Chicken, rice and wet food.....she get full very quick so I feed her three times a day.... Will take her to be weighed next week...doesn't seem like she's in pain in her mouth....really think its all her arthritis....she is stiff...those two front legs look like she's in casts when she walks and the back legs are just shot:(...trying to keep her comfy...plus the liver issue..........

Hugs xoxo

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

I have been thinking of you and Penny all week and had not time to stop by to say hi.

I hope our girl is holding her own and tooth surgery is healing.

Most of all, I hope you are doing okay. You have had so much going on, I hope the sun shines on your house now for awhile.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone for still checking on us

Yes Addy could use alittle sun to shine here:)

Cousin lost all his spirit
Dad has only been home a few days but more pain today
Penny is back to showing signs of not to much Internet in food
She eats but very little of what I give her
Maybe her mouth is still sore...I don't think so
Maybe she's in pain from her leg, back liver ... Could be
Maybe her stomach isn't right from the Flagyl...last one was last night

Vet wants her to have around 3 cans of wet food a day to get nutrition....but she does not get that....insteadbofnthe chicken and wet food maybe I should with to burger and wet food to change it up alittle...i am using the canned Merrill.. Just tried one with trout in it .....she turned her head......thought I would try since she likes tuna....
As usual I am confused....seems like I am like that alot lately with her....I do know that with the Tumor in her liver thing could go wrong quickly.....so I never really know why she doesn't eat..... Ok done going on and on:)

Thanks

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

You might want to check with Leslie.... but I think Slippery Elm is good for appetite and upset tummy and maybe some of the other stuff you mentioned. It's all natural. Can't hurt to try. There is also meds ro stimulate eating.

This is really hard not knowing for certain what you are dealing with. It would be nice if a vet could look at her mouth and make sure everything is ok there. But you know, if you could get your son or you husband to hold her still and open her mouth you could look at it yourself with a flashlight.

If that's not it, then blood work and ultrasound is about the only way to find out where you stand. I wouldn't bother with the biopsy. You already know that whatever it is, it hasn't spread yet. I'm not sure if I understand how bad the liver is though. This is only a giant guess but based on my experance with Mira I think it is possible that she doesn't have pain in her liver. They told me that Mira's pain was probably from organs pressing against other organs and her ribs. We could see Mira's ribs expanding from the tumor. It was very noticable. I don't know if you are seeing any of that with Penny.

What you are certain of is pain from somewhere. Tramadol sucks in my opinion. For one thing the thing you are looking for "quality of life" right? To me tramadol makes that look pretty poor and can depress an owner. It sure did me. But if you think she is in pain you might want to give her more. Or try something else.

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

Slippery Elm Bark made a world of difference for my Jasper. He was absolutely refusing to eat and after three days of no food, I was panicked. I brewed up some SEB gruel and gave him about a tablespoon by syringe when it cooled down. He took it fine and was eating a little bit for me within two hours. With pancreatitis, you really need to get them to eat something and I was happy to discover that in cases like Jasper, SEB can be considered a meal. I'm sold on the stuff and will be keeping it in my in-home, ever expanding pharmacy from now on.

Glynda

[Cyn719]

Janis and Glynda........how are the fur babies???

Thanks for the help.
Penny's mouth is good.
Tramadol I only give at night so she sleeps good...she still gets up....suppose to give 1-1/2 but I just use 1

She stopped eating but yesterday I switched to hamburger and rice and she downed the bowl!! She ate that twice.....so it's just she eats what she wants....so where do I go from here??
Also here stool was fine now it's back to soft serve.....so if the Flagyl didn't work will the Slippery Elm work? Is that stronger? She has gone twice in an hour.

Where do I get it? And do I keep her just on the chicken rice and
burger for now? Am I not giving enough rice to bind her? I put like a half cup or so each time I feed her.

Hugs and big thanks for the advice xoxo

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

If you are using the same amount of rice with the hamburger as you did with the chicken, then I would consider that the protein change must be affecting her.

I always had to wean Zoe of the flagyl. I would go from every day bid to once a day then to every other day or twice a day every other day, then every three days, then every four days, then every five days, then off. My holistic vet just thought it worked better and it did.

Or you could try the Slippery Elm.

love,
addy

[apollo6]

Dear Cindy, you can get Slipper Elm ,health food store,or online. I use NOW Slippery Elm. You need to follow instructions on how to prepare it. I got mine from Amazon.com
Into a small sauce pan place 1/2cup cold water and 1teaspoon powered slippery elm bark. WHip with a fork. Bring to simmer over low flame,stirring constantly. Simmer 1to 2 minutes or until slightly thickened. Cool and refrigerate. Keep 7-8 days. Give a teaspoon of syrup(I give it with a little bit of yogurt every night). Apollo has been dealing with the pancreatitis also. He gets cooked rice,turkey and chicken no skin plan,yogurt. Hope your sweet Penny feels better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[lulusmom]

Cindy, here is a link to a site I found which gives some really good information on SEB, including how to prepare it.

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

[Altira]

Dearest sweet Cindy.... There are those here who can direct you far better then me. But I think that makes about four or more of us pushing the Slippery Elm thing. I would venture to say that it is not stronger then the pills. But maybe that's a good thing, probably it would be a lot easier on her liver. It might even get her to eating properly again. Run, don't walk, to your nearest health food store Cindy! LOL Seriously!

Mix it in her food. Leslie says I think.. Don't give any other meds at the same time. It says give dogs over 50lbs 1/4 to 1/2 cup twice a day. I'd start with 1/4 cup.

We can't all be wrong about this. Ask your hubby to bring some home... Go go go.

[Cyn719]

Pennys poop is totally melted soft serve!! getting to be just about liquid - saw red in it....blood or the treats she eats??? taking sample to vet - poor girl!!!! Probably the colitis from when she was operated on???

[addy]

Cindy how long was she off the flagyl before this happened?
When did you change her protein? After stopping the flagyl?

I am so sorry.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

It started to get soft a few days after I stopped the Flagyl - I told the vet - now its awful - they are telling me to put metamucil in her food?? I didnt really change the food - just using white rice chicken and hamburger - it was soft even when I changed to burger

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm begging you, please get Penny some Slippery Elm Bark asap.....

[Cyn719]

I wanted to put her on the Slippery Elm and the IMS and the reg vet said not to ---????? I dont understand why --- I am calling them both back now and Pennys stool is being tested tonight

[frijole]

Pennys poop is totally melted soft serve!! getting to be just about liquid - saw red in it....blood or the treats she eats??? taking sample to vet - poor girl!!!! Probably the colitis from when she was operated on???

I would cease anything with that red dye in it for now and that way you will know.

Re the SEB - I was made a believer with Annie. Just follow instructions and do not give too much or it can cause diarrhea.

[Squirt's Mom]

I wonder why? It is so much easier on the system than the Flagyl but it doesn't have the antibacterial properties of the Flagyl so maybe that's why.

I hope the answer and a viable solution can be found soon. I know how disconcerting this can be.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Maybe the vet wants to make sure it is not being caused by bacteria or a parasite.

I know for Zoe putting her on flagy for five days and just stopping it never worked.

I am hugging you as hard as I can and sending you strength and love.

addy

[Altira]

Oh Cindy I'm so sorry you are going thru all this! I hope that your parents are at least feeling better. I wish we could have braved the slippery elm in there some place but I guess it's best to follow the vet now. I'm suprized at the poop test. I would think blood work would give a better clue and an ultrasound. Damn... Anyway, keep us posted.

(((((hugs)))))

[Cyn719]

They wanted to get her on the Flagyl ASAP.....got the liquid one this time since she gives me a prob with pills.....no blood in stool...she would not eat tonight....but is drinking ...see how am goes...

Thanks Janis....moms sciatic is bearable today...going for therapy..dad is hanging in there it's up and down.....hope its all good soon....


Hugs xoxo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
I've been busy and haven't had a lot of time to get on here, but wanted to stop and check in on you and Penny. I'm sorry to hear you're having some trouble, but hoping the liquid form will help. I hope she wants to eat tomorrow.

Thinking of you both...
Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone!!!!!

Just wanted to post that penny asked for food alittle while ago....it's late but I gave her some chicken..rice...broth....glad she ate so I could hi pov he the Flagyl . Nope she doesnt like me squirting that liquid in he mouth

Any suggestions to getting it all in..since she likes to try to spit it out:eek: Squirt in the side....the front...??

Thanks:)

Xoxo

[frijole]

:D Liquids are easier to give than pills because of the element of surprise. You can't expect her to ever like taking the meds... but you can quickly squirt it in her mouth knowing you are MOM OF THE YEAR only looking out for her best interest.... I found that sticking the vial into the mouth on the side right behind the canine tooth where there was an opening was the easiest... just depends on Penny's teeth but you get the picture.

You can do this! :)

[Altira]

Oh man liquid? I've had nothing but disasters with liquids. I used to give pepto bismal and we had pink flying everywhere! All over me, the floor and the dog! If they won't hold still forget it. I'm far better with pills. I can poke them down should they refuse. Peanut butter or pill pockets work almost always. That doesn't help you now though. You might inlist the help of your son or hubby to hold her head still so she can't flip it out. And do it from the side like Kim said.

Good news about no blood and wanting to eat! Glad your doing chicken instead of hamberger. Come on sweety Penny get better for mommy. xxx kiss on snoot xxx

[Cyn719]

Kim

I did what you said.....shot it right behind the K9 tooth area....which was easy cause on he right side there is no k9 tooth so easy access:p she got all of it:). Hope she starts to feel better soon...this is her second dose. She ate her same chicken mixture this morning...I won't start to add he canned or kibble back till the med kicks in.

Janis

I know the liquid is messy, but the Flagyl is not a coated pill so it gets stuck...even if I put oil on it....and pockets peanut butter she will not take..but today no messy liquid all over he place ....she was good...his time:rolleyes:

I do realize Penny is a very sick dog. I do in my heart feel the tumor is growing ..... She is totally winded when she walks.. Her good back leg use to hold her up but now it's had enough nd her front legs are very weak from carrying all her weigh...arthritis is every where ...I just try to make her happy and as comfy as possible....I don't want her to suffer.

[Squirt's Mom]

Aw, honey, you are doing a great job for Penny and she knows it. You are the reason she is able to fight as hard as she is.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks:)

I just checked on her....she went twice back to back...one was very soft no consistency and bright yellow....the other one has allitle form to it but wasn't as bright yellow and looked like it we in like a clear casing?? Mucous?? Sorry to be so descriptive..never dealt with colitis before:o......does this Lund like it?

[Squirt's Mom]

The yellowish cast may be bile, which isn't uncommon when the digestive system is out of whack, and you should see less and less yellow as the meds go to work. The coating is likely mucous and that is very typical with colitis. What I watch for with Trink is that slimy, shiny look and a tail on the poop part that last exits the body. If I see either of those signs, I know a flare is in the making and she gets dosed with her med.

That her poop was progressively more formed is a good thing to see and the goal you are shooting for so it sounds like things are working as they should so far. One thing Addy told me that I have always remembered - the longer it stays in the body, the better formed it will be. ;) Which also means the pup is getting more of the nutrients from their food intake.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks again:)

Penny did roll on he back and kick up he legs which I was happy to see but beides that she is panting non stop...drinking bowls of water ... Am I to thnk cushings is kicking in again considering those where her original symptoms or symptoms from tumor.. She is not to comfy..she wants to go out..come in...go downstairs.....cause it is very cool down there...but she changes her mind every few mins! Also when she I laying down he front legs are so wide apart....never did that before. Tried to give her alittle food...didn't want it....for be last week she regurgitates a lot....mostly water comes up....coughs and gags....bottom line is ugh how do I know if she is in pain or suffering....ok here she comes again.....only stayed down stairs ten mins now wants to go out again:eek: sorry for going on .... Just feeling so bad for her.

Just called vet ..asked about her breathing.she asked how many breaths per min...right now 48 which is high...cause she could be in pain, upset stomach from meds or because she has been panting a lot...and the it goes to why is she panting a lot....said to try a tramadol.....hate to make her tired ...I could give half.

[Altira]

If you ask me I'd say you hit the hardest road of all. NOT KNOWING! It could be any of those things bothering her. You mentioned penny acting strangely right after giving her meds. Just after that I noticed Kira doing the same thing. So I looked up side effects and right there it said it kicks in at about two hours and the duration can be about four hours. Yup Kira started panting and whinning at two hours and stopped exactly four hours later. I'm going to take it upon myself to stretch out the time In between her gabapenton. She was doing well with it until about the same time you noticed with Penny and tramadol. The same thing pacing, panting, whinning, uncomfortable? The only good thing is at least they are MOVING! Any kind of exersize is good no matter what. If they were just laying there panting and crying and cant walk, I'd be far more worried. I dont think penny would be moving around so much if she was in pain. But you say penny is distressed all the time?

Did you stop the tramadol? Did it get worse then? Do you have any gadapenton left? Would the vet let you try that again? Our vet gave Kira muscle relaxers he said I could try too which I may do. BTW Kira is up pacing and panting right now too, or she was. Now she's complaining about Incontenance. Sheesh. It's so hard to know what to do. But as you can see Kira is having the same sort of uncomfiness and she does not have Cushings or a bad liver. Beings she's moving around I don't think it's pain so that makes me think is the meds or she's just plain old hot! Can dogs get hot flashes? lol. But really if they do that's not funny. You could try hosing her off to cool her down. My old vet suggested that for Kira after walks.

I know this sounds silly but if I was you I'd still try the slippery elm thing. There is nothing safer that you could try. Especially if your trying to deal with liquid meds. I'd stop everything except for her liver meds for a day and try slippery elm. Or maybe someone else has a better idea???

It's a very hard situation to deal with because you can't be certain of the exact problem. But with Kira I am going to try adjust her meds some and hopefully off set this panting pacing thing too. Because like you and penny... More then anything we want them to be comfortable. And it's really up to us to figure that out sometimes.

[Cyn719]

Janis

Kira is doing this with the gabapentin?? I can go back to it but that made her so out of it that it was a task for her to get up. She settled down aliitle after my last post....she was in and out of sleep...oh boy she was out lime a light and she just wome up got up and is panting so hard...shes trying to find a comf spot...hope Flagyl isn't giving her a Sick stomach.... I should go back to the Pepcid..I think I have to separate that from he Flagyl??

Penny girl looks exhausted:(

[Casey's Mom]

I feel for you so much Cindy - it is so hard that we don't know what they are feeling because they can't tell us. Howevr if you block your feelings out you will be able to tell what Penny is feeling.

Love and many hugs,

[mypuppy]

Hi Cindy,
Awww, so glad Penny did the roll and legs up thing. I think that is adorable in dogs, and a sign she had a happy moment, no? :) But there's the uncomfy feeling you are seeing in her, and I know it is such a terrible feeling to watch them cope with, when they just can't get comfortable in any way, but I think Janis may have something there in saying perhaps Penny is just hot. It was pretty hot today, and I too noticed Princess panting more than usual, even with the cushings, but the change in temperature has brought on the panting:mad:, and mine too...:D Im sorry I can't offer anything valuable on all the meds or slippery elm since I've never used them, aside from the pepcid and metradonizole. Pepcid she did terrible with and would throw up for some reason on it, and the metradonizole worked for her poopies. How about turning the ac for her and see if she settles down a bit, and of course watch your energy bill skyrocket:mad:, but worth a shot just to test it out, right along with Janis's idea of "hosing" her, but with the extremely cold water, I don't know???

Hope she can get comfy and sleep a bit for you tonight, and get those legs up in the air more often. Give her some gentle belly rubs and a kiss on her nose.

Love ya much, Jeanette

[Altira]

"Slippery Elm is an alternative to Pepcid"
If you are considering pepcid .....

[Cyn719]

My girl again can't get settled. Keeps moving from one spot to another and still panting heavy. It's been about 45 mins since her tramadol.....maybe it will kick in soon.

[addy]

Zoe has been warm at night and restless since we have had the warm weather, waking up panting, then moving to a cooler spot.

Flagyl needs to be given with food so it does not upset their tummy.
I tried pepcid a few months back with Zoe and gave it an hour before the flagyl and then finally switched the pepcid to the evening and she had the flagyl in the am. But Zoe only had each drug once a day. Pepcid can affect the absorbtion of some antibiotics.

Has the flagyl kicked in with her stool or is it still soft serve?

Poor Penny, poor you. Oh Cindy, I wish I could make it all better for you both.

love and hugs ((((((hugs)))))))

addy

[Cyn719]

Addy....thanks

Stool is soft but has started to get form to it..she is just panting non stop....slept alittle during the nite has been up since 5:45 and has not stopped panting for a second.....my husband put her on my sons bed cause she usually goes right to sleep....she's been in there for over an hr just panting heavy...she won't put her head down...it's so loud I can hear her over the air conditioner:eek: I figured I would make the room cool to see if that helped....but it's not

My husband thinks its the tumor pressing on the diaphragm ?? Or she's in lots of pain with the arthritis ......

[addy]

Process of elimination, which can be hard. You tried cooling her down, you gave her something for pain, so it is hard to know.

I was going to go back through your thread to when she had that bad bout awhile back, she was panting then too.

I know Zoe pants when her colitis/IBD flares and she has tummy pains. I think it is similar to the cramping I get in my intestines when I have a bout of diahrrea but that is guessing on my part. It just seems that way for Zoe because the pooing and/or flagyl would eventually stop it.

Cindy, you must be exhausted. I'm giving you a shoulder rub. Can you feel it? Here, hold my hand for awhille, deep breaths, exhale, breathe in, breathe out, calm......:):):)

It's called virtual relaxation technique:D:D:D:D:D

hope I made you smile;)

love,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' sweetie,

How are things today? Did either of you get any rest?

I wish I could wrinkle my nose a few times and all of this would go away, even if just for a little while, and I would have the wrinkliest nose in the world. Penny is so lucky to have you and your family by her side. She is so well-loved and knows it.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thank ladies:)

Awwww that shoulder rub feels so good.....even though I can only imagine how it feels its still good:o
She finally slept on mikes bed with the AC on for about an hour plus....she is outside now panting but may be alittle better ???? She is still eating her chicken and rice but shes eating ... I will have to see how it goes today....is it the colitis like you said Addy could be - is it the tramadol the arthritis the tumor --- like you said so much med and so many problems will we ever know --- and the increased drinking -- cushings ? cant go there right now gotta get this colitis under control. Now I feel asleep at 745 this AM cause we were up all night and my mom woke me at 9 to take dad to dr...cellulitis isnt better - so I was just walking out my bro said he would take him cause if they admit my dad my bro has to go back to the fire dept for a meeting so I will have to take him to be admitted - which is a 6 hr process cause in this State you have to be admitted by the ER not through your doctor --- health care around her su@#%!!!!!!!!

I will be back to update hopefully soon - Update she is outside - actually very little panting at the moment --- she went to the bathroom and it is still soft serve with alittle form to it - yesterday is was mustard yellow and today is is very dark - like the color of dark mud -- normal? still has that shine to it which is the mucous

hugs xoxoxoxo

[Altira]

The multi tasking roller coaster to hell. Well at least the doctors are diagnosing your papa and not you.

Is she walking around ok?

Heart felt ((((HUGS))))

[jmac]

Just wanted to stop in and see how Penny is doing. I hope she's doing a little better and the stool is looking better today also.

Sending my thoughts and hugs your way,
Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone....


Penny is aliitle better today.....Still eating good...as long as its ppl food.......poop is still very dark...not black but dark. Still soft .....a little form.......vet told me to try the gabapentin again with the tramadol......why does that scare me?? She said the two work well together.....last nite I really watched her.....after the tramadol she did seem to pant more.....starred at the floor and ould not seen to get comfy for a long time....is the tramadol not agreeing?? I will try tonight and see....hope she is ok with all that medication.......

Dads ack in hospital ...didn't go yesterday....went for tests instead....cellulitis ...plantar fasciilitis ......and huge bulging hernia...her will be her a few days with IV antibiotics....longer if they operate on hernia......will prob come home with the IV antibiotics.....


Hugs to all xoxo

[Cyn719]

Its nighttime and Penny is panting alot again ---- got home late from hospital so tried to feed her alittle so she can take her food --- wont eat a thing and just threw up alittle - it was a white foam ??

[frijole]

Don't force the food - probably upset tummy... did you add the gabapentin into the mix? If so it could be that. I'm not familiar with it so don't know the side effects... I have experienced white frothy vomit but can't remember what it meant... pretty worthless commentary but I'm here for ya! ;):D

[StarDeb55]

The way you describe Penny's behavior after giving the tram sounds very similar to the way Chewbacca acted. He could not get comfortable, whining, panting, wandering around. Now, I don't know if gabapentin (neurontin) can affect pups like people, but I was worked up to a max dose of 1800 mg daily which is six, 300 mg. capsules. When I hit the 5 capsule point, I was a total space cadet, couldn't focus, stayed drowsy all the time. It was a trial to see if it would help my back pain, & I blew up, telling my pain doc that I would rather hurt than feel the way that stuff made me feel. Maybe it's the combination of the 2 drugs that is doing weird things to Penny. You might try a process of elimination, give her only the tram for a few days, make notes on her behavior. Do the same with the neurontin & see if you can figure out if it's just one drug that's an issue or the two of them together.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

She got sick to her stomach before the tramadol tonight - and I didnt start the gabapentin yet - maybe its from the flagyl?? she has 3 or 4 days of it left - hope it works - poop isnt great yet - she is really not comfy right now -- lying on her side - keeps stretching - with a little groan and rubbing the side of her face on the rug while shes lying there - gave the tramadol and the gabapentin ---- vet said i needed to try it --- so we will see

[Skye]

Hey beautiful............you know what..........it sounds like one of those meds is causing an anexity type reaction. I had a pug who responded near exact way. Panting, restless, pacing, crazy restless, which of course makes you crazy without sleep. Upset tummy get 100% pumpkin, couple of tablespoons warm 10-15 secs and this also might help her pooh as well. Pumpkin is amazing...it helps upset tummy, hard pooh and too soft of pooh. I have also heard slippery elm bark does amazing for soft stools. On the color.....has she eaten anything that would cause such a color? yellow stools usually means issues with liver really dark brown i think is okay but as you know not black. you got this and so does Penny.......deep breath.....focus, pumpkin, slippery elm bark, and which meds do you think cause anexity? love and hugs to you my friend.....gentle tummy rubs to penny......kiss on snout.

[Cyn719]

:)Thanks

Mustard yellow is gone.....just dark poop.....

Gave the tramadol and gabapentin tonight.....is sound asleep....hey maybe the combo may work.....Tufts vets said to do combo also IMS and ortho...so I tried it.....time will tell......if the tramadol is the reason I am hoping to back off that and continue the gabapentin..if this Flagyl doesn't work I am tying slippery elm even though my vets said no......

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

I looked this up for you Cindy I think you may find some answers here.

METRONIDAZOLE (FLAGYL)
Side effects usually do not begin in a dog for 7-12 days after they have their first doses of metronidazole
Common• The most common side effects from metronidazole are the dogs reacting to the medication's bad taste. This can include gagging, drooling excessively, pawing at the mouth or rubbing the sides of the mouth on the floor. Other common side effects are nausea (shown when a dog lips its lips a lot), vomiting and loss of appetite.
Rare• Rare side effects include watery diarrhea, depression, lack of energy, blood in the stool, blood in the urine or a noticeable darkening of urine color. The lack of energy and depression can be from a low white blood cell count, which is thought to be caused by metronidazole. The rarest side effect is sudden liver failure.
Overdose• The symptoms of an overdose include sudden coordination problems such as walking with a stagger, total disinterest in food, persistent vomiting instead of just vomiting once, involuntary eye movements, lethargy and seizures, according to Dr. Dawn Ruben. She also notes that dogs most susceptible to overdoses are those with liver problems. Call a vet immediately if these symptoms occur.
Long Term• Metronidazole is usually not given more than two weeks to reduce the chance of long-term side effects. The drug has been known to stress the liver and kidneys of dogs and cats. Dogs that already have liver or kidney problems need reduced doses of metronidazole. There is a slight possibility that metronidazole can cause liver damage in healthy dogs.


GABAPENTIN
• Gabapentin is used mainly in dogs and cats for chronic pain caused by neuropathic disorders. However, it has also been recommended for dealing with arthritic pain and pain caused by malignancy.
How It Works• Oral Gabapentin, the most common form of the drug, is absorbed by the duodenum and partially metabolized by the liver. If your dog has liver or kidney problems, Gabapentin may not be the best drug choice.
Mild Sedation• Although they're considered minor side effects, the most common side effects of Gabapentin are mild sedation, increased drowsiness or lethargy in some dogs.
Ataxia• In some cases, ataxia can occur after use of Gabapentin. Ataxia is a neurological symptom where the muscles no longer work together correctly.
Withdrawal• You should not stop using Gabapentin abruptly. Abrupt withdrawal of the drug may cause seizures or extreme rebound pain in dogs.
• Do not give your dog the human form of Gabapentin for pain. The human form of Gabapentin contains xylitol and can be toxic to dogs.


TRAMADOL
Tramadol is given to dogs for moderate to severe pain after surgery, or for chronic conditions like cancer and arthritis. It is well tolerated by most dogs and does not carry the same risk of kidney or liver damage as NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.) However, it is a mild narcotic and dog owners should be aware of potential side effects.
Function: Tramadol fills the gap between NSAIDs and much stronger opiate pain medications like fentanyl. It narcotic, sedation effects tend to be fleeting and mild, and it is not considered an addictive drug. It can be used for short-term pain control, or used for long-term management of chronic conditions. It is given two or three times a day.
Mild Side Effects: A dog may have mild side effects for the first one to three days of tramadol use. These include an upset stomach and temporary loss of appetite. Tramadol may be slightly sedating at first, and you will notice your dog sleeping more and his heart rate may slow down. It makes some dogs a little anxious and they will pant and have constricted pupils. Constipation on tramadol is occasionally reported,.
Dealing With Mild Side Effects: If your dog has been prescribed tramadol for post-operative pain, let him be as sleepy and sedated as he wants. Make sure he has a comfortable place to rest and heal. Don't worry if he refuses a meal or two, but try to get him to drink some water. Mixing up some low-sodium meat broth, or mixing canned dog food with water, will tempt him to drink. Being properly hydrated will also help prevent constipation.
Potentially Serious Side Effects: If your dog becomes extremely agitated or acts very uncharacteristically, call your vet right away. Also seek help if your dog has seizures, or if you notice very constricted, pinpoint pupils.
Allergic reactions can include swelling and intense itching, sudden diarrhea or vomiting, pale gums, cold limbs and a coma-like state. Consider any of these a veterinary emergency and take your dog to the nearest emergency clinic.
Drug Interactions: Tramadol may be safely given with many other drugs, including NSAIDs and most supplements for controlling joint pain, like glucosamine and chrondroitin.It cannot be given with deprenyl (for treatment of Cushings disease or senility), or any of the antidepressants used for dogs. When given with amitraz (used to treat fleas and demodectic mange) tramadol's sedating effect may be amplified. Make sure your veterinarian is aware of any other supplements or medications your dog is taking, including over-the-counter medications.

[Altira]

Gabapenton 50mg or 100mg?
Does the vet know its knocking her out?

Slippery Elm Bark is safer then Flagyl. It's good for soft poop, upset tummy, not eating.....

[Cyn719]

http://drpollen.blogspot.com/2011/05/tramadol-gabapentin-treat-pain-in-dogs.html



Check out this article......this is what the IMS was explaining to me about the tramadol and gabapentin

Xoxo

[Altira]

Cool! What's the dosage your using?

[Cyn719]

Janis

100 mg gabapentin

50 mg tramadol (she was taking 75mg before the gabapentin)

she is doing so so today ---she is very tired -- this happened last time with the gabapentin----maybe I should cut back on the tramadol but it takes awhile to for gabapentin to work on the pain so I cant cut back???

she ate but late this AM and is sleeping -- out like a light!!

[Altira]

Kira takes gabapenton 100mg capsules twice a day. It does not knock her out. They said if she had a problem with it they could adjust the dose. When she was getting it from the therapist eariler this year it was 50mg capsules. She did well with that too. The problem with the 50mg capsules was they cost like four times more. 30 100mg = $18. 30 50mg = $58. 50mg capsules have to be compounded. YIKES I'm glad Kira can take the 100mg. Is Penny getting capsules? Can they lower the dose? I really don't think they should be knocking her out like that.

Maybe it's the combination of the two drugs?

Can you try just the gab by itself once and see if it still happens?

[Cyn719]

last time we gave just the gabapentin and she seemed knowed out but it was after another one of her sugeries so tonight I will try just the gab and see what happens - I just had to wake her to eat!!!! Wow shes so tired..... but we will see how it goes tonight - I just hope its enough for the pain

[Altira]

What does she do to make you think she's in pain?

Kira walks around all stiff looking. She holds her head lower, her eyes raise to look at me but she doesnt lift her head. Its harder for her to get up. She cries more when Neeka picks on her. Comes running to me to save her. All of this is much better taking Gabapenton. Her problem is her spine and nerves. One disk is gone, many others in bad shape. Arthritis in one rear leg and muscle wasting. All common with old age and maybe more advanced due to damage from Cushings.

[Cyn719]

Basically Penny is the same . Arthritis both back legs and front legs and lower back.....lumbar issues...stenosis...calcifications....and not sure what it's called...when the disc are like fused together?? She walks very stiff...needs help going up the stairs..has trouble getting up.....

I wish I knew if the tramadol or the gabapentin helps the pain more??

Which one do I give her????

[Altira]

I haven't used tramadol Kira's current problem. I don't like it. We used Etogestic $$$ for six months it seemed to work at first, then it stopped working. And I think it was making her ill because she refused to take it suddenly. So I stopped giving it to her and saw no differance in her as far as pain goes. Then we went to the theropist. I told her Kira needed something for pain. And she gave her the gab 50mg. Which seemed to help a lot! Along with daily walks and the water treadmill. Penny really needs to walk. Tramadol makes Kira's Incontenance worse too.

[Cyn719]

I gave her a half of tramadol and like half a gabapentin.....vet said I could open capsule and dump some out. He said it won't be accurate but it will be less than the 100 mg....let's see how this goes.....with less at least I know she won't sleep the entire day tomorrow like she did today!! Well at least I hope not!:rolleyes:

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

I am concerned about her extreme sedation. Gab seems to have the opposite effect on Kira if anything at all. Maybe the bad liver doesn't filter it well. That's good that they will let you just give some of it. They told me not to do that and I really didn't understand why.

The theropist said the 100mg was to much for Kira. But the vet gave her 100mg without a blink of an eye. Kira does fine with it. I swear every vet you go to gives a differant answer!!! It's rather disturbing. Makes you feel like none of them really know what they are doing!

I would rather Kira be taking 50mg. I think I'll do like you are and just give her whatever I think is best. This is just pain medication after all it's not like it's going to cure them or ward off something that might kill them.

You might ask about the Etogesic. It did work for Kira at first. But they told me to just use that as needed and not an everyday thing. Idid end up using it every day, which may be why it started making her ill. I read bad stuff about that though and was never all that happy about giving it to her. It might not be good for penny at all.

I'm very interested to know how it's going....

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone. Any suggestions or thoughts

Getting frustrated....penny's colitis isn't getting better.....she went today like soft serve....so I had to check it out.....the whole inside was yellow and the outside dark brown....:oSorry for the details....worried.....liver?? Called vet....prob get a call back in 5 hrs! Now I am questioning that I should of used the slippery elm....but then I have both vets saying no..poor girl!! And her sore elbows are bleeding today.....when she goes to lay down the take all her weight ...thet are so cracked and dry.....half tramadol and half plus gabapentin last nigh.....she is not to groggy today. I guess a whole of each is way to much for her. Hope the combo works.

Stormee

Can't get her to eat pumpkin...even sat on floor and said I will have some with you! Nope she turns her hear away...she is stubborn for sure!!

[marie adams]

Dear Cindy,

Just stopping by to offer a little support to you and Penny.

You are doing the best you can so keep it up!!!

((((HUGS))))

[Altira]

Cindy I don't know if this will help or not. This information is like thirty years old. But my Sigh used to get diahrea so easy and it was so hard to get rid of. They told me he had a bad liver. Which turned out to be questionable. He had diahrea for six months as a puppy. Then they told me to feed him canned I/D dog food and hamberger. He was better in like two days. I'm pretty sure vets still carry canned I/D dog food. We had eleven of what I called "pancakes" spread all over the kitchen floor one day. He was so sick.

[Cyn719]

Thanks so much for the thoughts...:):)

Tried I/D. She said no way:D

Shhhhhh not to loud ....I may be sorry I said it ....but she is having a good day....rolling on her back...the most alert she's been in a long time...head up....grabbed her stuff animal and was throwing it around..but with Penny it could be the day....but enjoying every second of it:D:D:D:D. She is going to the vet Wed at 1000 unless our plumber cancels for tomorrow and then we will take her then...

TODAY IS THE BEST SHE HAS WALKED IN AWHILE....Maybe this new combo with half tramadol and half plus gabapentin will do the trick????

Been on computer trying to find a kibble that is around 18 percent protein and 10 percent fat....hard to find....found one Innova...any thoughts on that food??

[mypuppy]

Dearest Cindy,

Shsshhhhhhhhhh, I am glad to hear Penny is having a great day:) I hope it lasts....My friend's lab is on Innova. I have never given to Princess, but I have heard good reviews on that brand. However, I do not know too much on the protein/fat content thing. I think Marianne is the person to talk to when it comes to that. She knows how to do all those fat conversions. Worth a shot to ask her help, and I know she is always more than willing to help and then some. She's great! Princess is on the Acana wild prairie and doing great on it, with the slice of the BH Golden Classic chicken of course..:D

Feel better Penny so mommy can just be happy seeing you happy:)

We love you both dearly...

Tight hugs. xo Jeanette and the Princess

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Glad to hear she is having a good day! I hope it continues. Sorry to hear the colitis is still causing her issues.

Thinking of you both!
Julie & Hannah

[Casey's Mom]

Good days are wonderful!

Love and hugs,

[Altira]

Wonderful Cindy!!! It's working! I dumped half a gabapenton into a pill pocket and gave it to Kira today. She had a good day too. :D:D:D:D:D:Dso so happy :p:p:p Just in time for Kira's 12th birthday.

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Cindy,

will you be bringing a/some stool samples when you go see the vet? Soft, yellow stools are usually caused by one of several causes that can and should be excluded...

a - giardia infestation

b - insufficiency of pancreas enzymes

c - increased bilirubin (liver)

d - allergic reaction to something the dog ate or to medication it is taking.

The first three can easily be researched through stoolsamples and if they are excluded it leaves the allergic reaction. And if it turns out to be one of the first three causes, they can and should be treated.

Colitis in itself is not a disease, it's the result of something. And I would want to know what was causing the colitis.

Hope Penny has yet another good day today...and you too :)

Sas and Mhina :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Glad Penny had a good day yesterday and hope today is better! thanks for everything Cindy!

[Cyn719]

Janis ....glad its working:) Yes today is a very special day for sure....we need to shout it from the rooftops............

TODAY IS KIRA'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!


Sas....

She is going to the vet tomorrow....taking stool sample.....when they did surgery to remove her molar they said she got stress colitis. Had it since then. They are going to do blood work also. This could be from her bad liver.....the last results for the liver were in the 7,000 and she does have the tumor so it may be that.....hopefully they can figure it out.

Judi...thanks:):)

Thanks everyone for all you love concern support and advice...you guys are the best!!!!:)

Hugs xoxo

[Cyn719]

Penny went to the vet

She gained 1 lb:)

Tests she ran were electrolytes and WBC.....normal

Stool was ok...Said there was no need to run test now since she's on antibiotic


Said to stay on Flagyl another week...more if needed.

I didnt go ...Dave did...so i want to see bloodwork....sending results here tomorrow....so I will have numbers.....

She's was ok today....better yesterday....
Last night husband gave her a whole tramadol instead of half with the half of gabapentin....he forgot we were only giving half....so maybe she was alittle more tired...

See how tomorrow goes....

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

Awe Cindy. Thanks for all of Kira's birthday wishes. You are such a sweetheart.

So glad Penny went to the vet today. Sounds like there was no major concerns from just the exam. Thats a releif. Yeah, I'm real anxious see the blood results too. I sure hope that liver reading came down too. Crossing my fingers for you guys for sure. Please please please...
(((((hugs)))))

PS: We forgive your hubby for the medication mistake, yes? He's a good guy.

[addy]

Great news Cindy, glad Miss Penny gained a pound. I wish you could discuss weaning her off the Flagy instead of just stopping it completely.

Keep up the good work. Keeping fingers crossed.

hugs and love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Janis

Yeah we will forgive him! Lol lol :D

She's not going to run the liver test till she is off the Flagyl.

Glad Kira had a nice birthday!:)

Addy

She's on it for another week....so you think after the week we should continue it and then cut back slowly??

Hugs. Xoxo

[addy]

I wish you could ask your vet about going off the flagyl slowly rather than stopping it all at once. Tapering down off it for a week or two may be easier for Penny since she has been so sick. But maybe with her liver problem, your vet might not want you to do that.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Good question Addy....I will ask:)

Xoxo

[marie adams]

Dear Cindy,

I am so glad Penny is having good days!! :) It is nice the test came out good, but now its a waiting game to see how everything looks after the antibiotics are done.

You are amazing with all you do for Penny--you are both lucky to have each other!!:)

[Cyn719]

Awwww thanks Marie....what we all do for our kids!!:):D

She has been through a lot....but she is my tough girl..she prob mad me age 10 years:eek:But she's worth it......

She is actually just getting up....she went out this morning....saw the rainy day and went back to bed on my sons bed....she even missed breakfast....she will be extra hungry.. I hope

Time to see what fussy will eat now....so she can have her Flagyl...
She started to let me add kibble to her food ... Let's see how long his last!

And how is Miss Ella doing these days???

Hugs xoxo

[Cyn719]

Penny had CBC all was normal just PLT was 577 range says 200-500
electrolytes normal

I thought she would of done profile to check liver values...unless she wants to wit till she's off Flagyl??

[Harley PoMMom]

Flagyl may cause liver enzyme levels to increase so it may be best to wait a while to see how the liver enzyme levels are.

[mypuppy]

Hi Cindy,

How nice Penny's CBC was normal...In fact, it's awesome in my book:). I guess waiting for liver blood work would make sense to hold off till she's off all meds. That shouldn't be long from now right?

Hope she starts getting a few more better days than bad ones.

You know we love ya..

Tight hugs...xo Jeanette and Princess

[Altira]

Well I'm not sure exactly what all was tested. But if the vet isn't complaining... then it sounds like good reason to get up and dance around the room! YEAY PENNY! :D:p:D:p:D:D
Could be just finicky...? Stick to your guns mom... good job!

[Cyn719]

Think it's just a CBC. WBC RBC HGB HCT MCV MCH etc

just PLT was 577

PDWs
RDWs
RDWc

Don't know what those are??

[Altira]

The "DW" stands for Distrubution Widths. What ever that is. Did they give a reason for this test? Did they tell you what they were looking for?

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Just checking in on you and Penny. I hope she is still doing well! Glad to see the CBC was normal.

Take care!
Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Ok yes frustrated...Flagyl is not working.....not working well....still basically like soft serve.....ugh......
Could it be because she is only eating burger and chicken and canned food??
Getting new kibble now...

I should try slippery elm.....I hesitated cause both vets said no....but now I should?
Does she need to be off Flagyl to start it??

Yup I need help!

Xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

My vote is slowly stop the Flagyl and start the SEB with no change to her diet just yet. Changing food and changing meds could cause major confusion if issues arise so one thing at a time. ;)

IMHO, vets say no to things like SEB because they are not pharmaceuticals and that is what they are familiar with...plus many would lose income if you don't buy the meds through them...not saying this is your situation but it is for some.

SEB has many benefits, addressing inflammation in the digestive tract is just one of them.

Hoping you see some improvement soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

If my memory serves me correctly (when I did SEB research) it does not interfere with drugs - I am just sure I checked because of everything Annie was taking. The stuff is good. Vets that have used it call it their secret weapon... wonder why. :D Just be sure to follow the instructions.

[Altira]

Well Cindy you know where my vote is! I'm a bit blue in the face over it. LOL "Run don't walk to your nearest health food store!"

I think experance speaks volumes so just let me speak of one instance with Fragyl and Neeka. When we first got Neeka her breeder gave us TOTW Salmon to feed our new baby along with 7 Fragyl pills. I gave her both as instructed. Neeka had mushy watery poop the whole time. The vet gave me more Fragyl and still she had mushy watery poop. FOR TWO MONTHS she still had mushy watery poop. My vet assistant neice suggested I change her food to Pro Plan puppy chicken and rice. Two weeks later she had normal poops and never had a problem again.

Other then that I've never had Fragyl not work, that I recall. Maybe Pro Plan Adult Chicken and Rice might work but I agree with Leslie. Changing food right now is probably not a good idea. I also agree with Gyenda. Your vets got thier heads up their butts (oops did I say that?). Seriously I wanted to say the samething but didn't know if I should. Now that it's been said I tell you I support Gyenda'a theory 100%. And i also atest to what Kim said too. I have read that also! They were wrong not to give you the ok to at least try it. Maybe they are right and it won't work. Maybe they do know that but it was still wrong of them to not let you try it. It CANT hurt her.

I think my face is blue again. Lol

[labblab]

Cindy, just like Kim, I've never seen any drug interactions listed for Slippery Elm. But I have seen warnings that it may affect the absorption of other medications, so it is probably best not to give the Slippery Elm within approx. two hours of Penny's other meds. This is actually a fairly common warning for products containing a lot of fiber or otherwise affecting/coating the GI tract. For instance, if you look at a jar of Metamucil, it will contain the same warning.

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Has anyone tried Metamucil in the dogs food.....vet said to try it...

Penny did start blue buffalo senior kibble and canned today....vet wanted her on dog food....she has really only been eating burger and chicken...adding just alittle at a time...she seemed to go for it .....didn't finish it though

[Squirt's Mom]

SEB is better.....

[mypuppy]

Hi Cindy,

I know nothing about giving Metamucil to a furbaby, but considering it is fiber, wouldn't that make her poops even more soft served:eek: Again, what do I know:confused:

Let us know how she does on the new food.

We love ya both...xo Jeanette

[Altira]

Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Senior? 22% Pro 10% Fat
That one? Looks like a good choice to me. You mix it with the same canned version?

[Cyn719]

Blue buffalo senior kibble

18 percent protein
8 percent fat

Chicken and rice

Also using canned...turkey....chicken.....beef

OMG. THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT CANNED VERSIONS! ??

[apollo6]

Just seeing how you and Penny are.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Penny and Cindy-

I've been checking in some, but have been sick for a week and have not posted much. I just wanted you to know I am still here and cheering for you. You get two gold stars for keeping on top of this as much as you can.
-Susan

[Cyn719]

Thank you to each and every one of you.

Sorry I haven't been posting to much on your threads....

Penny is keeping me on my toes...and dad is home from the hospital...six IVs a day ....not getting better.....doctors again tomorrow....it's been alittle crazy

Hugs to all

Xoxo

[Altira]

Geez! Are you giving him IV's???!! Someone has to monitor it right?

[Cyn719]

It's crazy...nurse comes once a week....she taught us all how to do it..but my dad handles it fine..if he needs anything my husband is on rescue so he can help him... Healthcare really stinks!! Nurse once a week...it should be daily!

[labblab]

Has anyone tried Metamucil in the dogs food.....vet said to try it...

I've read about adding Metamucil to a dog's diet, but I've never tried it myself. So I don't know what the dosing would be. Also, I wouldn't add it at the same time that you are using Slippery Elm.

I think the idea behind the Metamucil is that added fiber can sometimes help with either constipation and diarrhea. The fiber can help normalize intestinal activity. So even though it seems strange to think that a product that is sold as a laxative can also firm up stools, it can work that way for certain people or dogs (kind of like canned pumpkin sometimes helps with either problem). I have a friend with irritable bowel syndrome, for instance, and adding fiber actually helps to control diarrhea for her. It doesn't always work that way, though, so you'd have to give it a try to find out. And as I say, if you're going to try the Slippery Elm, I wouldn't add anything else at the same time.

Marianne

[addy]

Hey Cindy,

IMO, only change one thing at a time or you will not know what is going on.

hang in there,
love
addy

[marie adams]

Hi Cindy,

You do have your hands full. :eek:

I am not really good with advice giving extra stuff to Penny. I only did kind of trial with Maddie. I don't know if any of it really helped, but it made me feel good that I was trying.

You are a fantastic person; so giving of yourself. Please take care of yourself also!!:)

((((HUGS))))

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hang in there Cindy. Thank goodness your husband has some training just in case. Judi

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone

thanks for all the posts:):)

Dad isnt getting better - doctors today - he was suppose to go off the IVs on Friday - they are going to have to continue and go to infectious disease dr - He has massive hernia - taking him Wed to surgeon - dont know what they are going to do - dont want to operate with the cellulitis

Penny is eating the Buffalo Blue Kibble Senior and Canned food - seems to like it - shhhh if she hears she may stop eating it!!:p:D
Still have to put in chicken but at least she has the dog food too - stool is getting alittle better also - maybe more of the dry food is helping?? Still giving the mixture of tramadol and gabapentin at night - doing ok but I have notice some groaning and kicking of her legs the last two nights and alittle during the day - going to increase the meds alittle tonight

I hope you all are doing good and you to fur babies!!

Addy - cute pic!:):)

xoxoxoxo

[mypuppy]

Dearest Cindy,

Prayers for your precious dad and your family. Glad Penny girl is eating a little better at least.

Hang in there my friend, and we will keep you and your family in our thoughts always.

Much love and tight hugs.

xo Jeanette

[addy]

Sweet, Dear Cindy,

I hope Dad is okay and that everything turns out. So much on your plate. I know how hard it is.

I am so happy that Penny is eating the new food. Hoping for some good poos too!!!!!:):):):)

Hang in there, we love you ((((((hugs))))))))

love you a whole bunch,
addy

[Altira]

Hi everyone

thanks for all the posts:):)

Dad isnt getting better - doctors today - he was suppose to go off the IVs on Friday - they are going to have to continue and go to infectious disease dr - He has massive hernia - taking him Wed to surgeon - dont know what they are going to do - dont want to operate with the cellulitis

Penny is eating the Buffalo Blue Kibble Senior and Canned food - seems to like it - shhhh if she hears she may stop eating it!!:p:D
Still have to put in chicken but at least she has the dog food too - stool is getting alittle better also - maybe more of the dry food is helping?? Still giving the mixture of tramadol and gabapentin at night - doing ok but I have notice some groaning and kicking of her legs the last two nights and alittle during the day - going to increase the meds alittle tonight

I hope you all are doing good and you to fur babies!!

Addy - cute pic!:):)

xoxoxoxo

Good luck at the surgeons today! Hopefully he'll be able to offer some insight and some Relief! I haven't known many surgeons but the ones I have dealt with were caring and intelligent guys, willing to listen. Maybe this guy will be too.

Kicking legs? I wonder what you mean by kicking legs.

Sometimes when Kira first gets up she'll oddly kick one of her legs. It almost seems involuntary. Bud says its because her leg fell asleep. I suppose it could be numb from a pinched nerve. Is this what Penny is doing? I wonder if muscle relaxers would help with that? Kira does this very rarely. Mostly it's laying on her back kicking in the air. The happy kind of kicking. I'm asumming you don't mean that kind.

(((((hugs)))))) @--)---

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone:)

Dad is off IV Sat - then wait to see what happens - if it continues to swell they will take the fluid or operate to remove the infected part - not good for a diabetic - hernia is quite painful -- he has had it a long time an of course now it peaks at its worse

Penny is eating very well - today a cup of food with alittle canned alittle chicken and a little plain tomato sauce - Is tomato sauce ok for dogs - nothing in it just the ground tomato and I use just a tablespoon - that seems to get her to eat ---- what can I say - shes Italian:p:D

Her stool is better - has form - slightly soft but looks almost back to normal --

Hugs to all
Belly rubs to the babies

xoxoxoxo

Again thanks to all of you for always checking in and providing me with lots of info - so very much appreciated!!!!!!

Always checking in on all of you even if I am not posting

Love Ella and Zoes new pics!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

Good to hear from you. I hope your dad improves and no surgery will be required.

It's good to hear that our Penny girl is doing better! I know that helps take some of the stress off of you.

Know we are here for you any time, keeping you all in our prayers and thoughts daily.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

Hi Cindy,

I am keeping my fingers crossed that your Dad won't need surgery. It is hard when a parent needs surgery--just helping them make the decision or you have to do it for them takes a toll. It is such a wonderful thing your husband knows a lot to help with the medical decisions and such...

So glad to hear Miss Penny is doing so much better; what a relief even though she still needs watching too. Never a dull moment...:D

Thank you so much for your kind words about Ella. She is definitely a character. And as I said knows how to play the cute card all the time.

Take care!!!! ((((HUGS))))

[Altira]

Hi Cindy, it's getting rather quiet in this thread. I hope that means Penny's worries are continuing to improve.

[Cyn719]

IT IS THE END OF THE DAY .....I AM ALITTLE LATE BUT I HOPE EVERYONE HAD A VERY NICE EASTER.....:)

I am so blessed to have all of you wonderful angels in my life....

Janis
Things are the same ... Dad is not better...penny is eating her blue buffalo :)......can't seem to get the dose right for the gabapentin....still working on it .....stool seems better.....she came to my moms .... Really struggling with her legs....her coat seems like it is thinning a lot now.....?? cushings......wondering if she could have a test in the near future...everyone who saw her today thought she looked very sunken in and boney and commented on her coat???

Hugs to all and your fur babies!
Xoxo

[Altira]

Oh Cindy... I'm so sorry. I don't know what to say about what you must be feeling.

Anyway, Gabapenton is known for making them wobbly. My vet explained that it can make them seem drunk. I think I would cut back on the gab and see what happens. Other then that I think I'd be getting that liver blood test done pronto. Find out if you are fighting a liver problem or a lameness problem. Or maybe do an ultrasound. Ask your vet what would be the best way to find out. I don't know. I don't know how far you want to go with this. It's heart braking I know. I'm going to email you. 8:::: ((((hugs))))

[Cyn719]

Only gave Penny the Tramadol last nite and today she was walking better...not wobbling....but the rest of the day will be the test....
Janis just what the vet told you...she does walk drunk when on the gab or sure..
She will need liver function tests soon and ultra sound
She may need cushings tests
Also she needs to go to get a brace for her back leg....we had to cancel appt. when we were dealing with her tooth.
The back leg with hock injury is totally dropping to the ground when she stands or walks. Needs support for sure.
Has anyone used one of the braces?

Hugs xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

Good to hear from you! I hope your dad starts showing some improvement soon. I know how difficult it is to see your parents so ill. :( My dad was my hero and I watched him suffer for over 20 years with one thing after the other. My heart understands how you feel.

You might talk to your vet about giving Penny some melatonin at nite - 3 mgs. It would help her rest and could help her coat. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about Cushing's testing again right now. With all the stress she is under from other sources, I'm not sure you could even get accurate results. ;) Plus you have to keep in mind that her liver cannot handle what it used to...including many drugs.

Don't forget to take care of Cindy during this trying time, honey. Take some time just for you every now and then, ok?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Ah Cindy you know how we feel about you and Penny and all the stuff your faced with. Yeah don't forget to take care of you too.

A brace for her back leg! That sounds like a wonderful idea. I didn't realize this was happening. Although I should have. I know you mentioned it.

[Cyn719]

Hi Leslie

Dad is off the IV but is not better
Foot is swollen and red
Questioning now is it cellulitis
Starting with all the doctor visits again
Hes going to a foot doctor a endrocoinologist a infectious disease doctor - really no one can figure this out-- furstrating especially for him
Penny girl took just the tramadol last night - walking slightly better but is so tired today - maybe to much at moms yesterday -- plus she has been groaning all day!! So is that telling me she does need to be on the gabapentin-cause she really wasnt doing to much groaning during the day before today -- gab only last like 6 hrs and tram I believe 6 hrs - suppose to give during the day also but then she really cant get up - its like a catch 22!!
Maybe I can look into the melatonin - she needs to relax and sleep at nite
Just seems like the gab and tram together make her like a drunk little girl and the gab alone really makes her wobble - its a great drug - wish she wouldnt have that effect--

Trying to get it right - but its hard with all her issues --

Hope all is well with you -- and of course how are the fur babies doing??

Thanks Janice....looking into it :)

Hugsxoxo

[Cyn719]

Orthopedic was not in today. Hopefully tomorrow. Penny has been in lots of discomfort the last three days....groaning..stretching....laying flat on her side kicking out her back legs....she can't get comfy.....was trying not to give to much meds but need to increase....trying one tramadol and a half gabapentine tonight with a half tramadol with breakfast and go from there. Has anyone used Amantadine? Someone told me it was good for arthritis?? She needs these types of med but the side effect to all these re dizziness and drowsiness and he gets both....so then it's really hard for her to get around. I am just trying to grasp at some new choices.....hope the vet has some advice . Thanks for letting me vent......love hugs and prayers to all of you and you little ones!!

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

If there is one thing in all this that I am greatful for its the fact that you do vent and the fact that you don't try to go it alone. This is what we are here for. I think your main priority right now is to find out where you stand. Get the liver test and US done post haste. It might be time to put her on Prednisone and get her some relief at all costs. You don't want her to suffer. Not if it can be prevented. If it is her liver causing her so much distress I will tell you it only took one day to get Mira on her feet and walking for everyday she had left. You need to know. We are here with you. You are right in my pocket Cindy and more. You know that.

[Cyn719]

Thank you Janis

Calling vet tomorrow. Gave her the tramadol at 10:30. She is still groaning alittle. Not sure if I should add the gabapentin..hard to decide what to do...

Xoxo

[Altira]

I think sleep would be good. Give her just enough to sleep. I think that would include gab. Then get your son or hubby to take her up and let her sleep on you sons bed. That's what I'd do. I'd likely sit there and pet her for a long time. You can do this Cindy.

Kira is not doing well either. We go and see about acupuncture tomorrow. She yelped today when she tried to scratch her head. Kills me to hear a dog cry.

(((((hugs)))))

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Cindy,

so sorry things aren't going all that well for you...
I was wondering, could it be that changing Penny's meds quite often (the amount and combination of meds) could be the culprit? I know that with some medications, both human and animal, the side effects such as dizzyness and such, will subside after using it for a while? Perhaps if you would use a certain combo of meds for a week straight for example, the side effects would disappear? Perhaps you could ask your vet if this goes for Penny's meds?

All our best,

Sas and Mhina :)

[mypuppy]

Oh Cindy,

I wish someone here could help you sort out this medication issue. It's awful that these meds always come with such terrible side effects at the risk of the patient's well being. Nothing can ever be simple, and it really really stinks, specially for Penny.

BTW, as Janis stated, this is the right place to come for advice, knowledge and "venting", yes, lots and lots of that for sure. We all do it, and feel better for it, because we all care and have a deep love and understanding of what each of us are dealing with, so please, no regrets in that.

Hoping the orthopaedic will figure this out if no one else can, really!

We love you and Penny dearly.

Tight hugs to both of you

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Cyn719]

I am trying the slippery elm.....but not sure if it will interfere with the tramadol, the gabapentin and rimadyl....can't ask the vets .... They don't want me to use it:confused: today her stool is back to soft serve....

Sas
I asked that question and they are saying that the meds are not causing this...but do they really know this for sure?

When she was on Flagyl it aw better and the last few days of Flagyl it was normal...now this again.....could it be the liver...have phone calls into three vets....reg vet...IMS... And orthopedic....

Bloodwork again....U/S....??? What do I do now?

Thanks for advice...this ontop of everything else is really wearing me down....and it takes a lot to wear me down

Hugs xoxoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

You are doing a good job in a tough time, sweetie. You have every right to be worn down and completely bat-poop nuts in my book! :p

I think Sas has a good theory going there. Stick with one med regime for at least a week. No changes to anything, diet or meds, for at least a week. Then if things aren't better, change ONE thing and see if that helps. I wouldn't worry about any testing right now if it were me.

A gentle reminder about the SEB -give it two hours before or two hours after any other med to avoid any chance of absorption interference.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks Leslie

Penny has been on tramadol and rimadyl for a long time...this never happened.....it happened before we started the gabapentin also

I should also mention shes been so tired and out of it for the last few weeks ...on the tramadol and gabapentin....like don't bother me at all....but last night I didn't give the gab just the tram and today she is more perky and alert....I am realizing the gab doesn't agree with her....may help the pain but it's like not having a dog when she's on it.

[Altira]

You are the best judge at this point Cindy. You know what your best options are and how sweet Penny reacts to them (sometimes). Just dont bet yourself up if you get it wrong. It is very hard to do. For me I called this the worst moment of my life. You are doing great. Truly. Nobody could get this right.

TRYING YOUR BEST IS NOT FAILURE!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

Is Penny still taking the Rimadyl? Is this something you vet wants her to continue? I ask because it is so hard on the liver. ;)

I hope you dad is feeling a bit better. Please let him know that there are many "strangers" who pray for and think of him often.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Hi all

Just want to know I have been peeking in to check on your fur babies...haven't been posting to much ..... Still crazy with dad....still has the swollen foot and going in monday for a hernia operation...he can't catch a break....

Penny is eating very good
Stool is still soft...didn't check today...crazy rain..hail wind..weird weather.....
Vet said give it a few days to see what happens since we stopped the gabapentin...yes is on rimadyl...tried many times to stop it..she can't hold it without it....also mentioned Amantadine...any input on that??

Hugs xoxo

[addy]

Cindy, I am so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope things get better soon.

I have never used those pain meds except rimadyl which Zoe could not handle, it knocked her out and she could not walk, she was so drugged from it.

I check in every day to see how things are going.

Saying prayers and sending a lot of love.

addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Addy

I know the tramadol Knocks them out I did I know the Rimadyl did the same..vet never told me

Her stool is formed but very very dark but inside is light....sorry to be so graphic:p:o

Hope this is normal on the blue buffalo??

Xoxo

[addy]

well, as long as it is formed and a half way decent color- I say
let's take it as a good thing:D:D:D


love,
addy

[Cyn719]

lol Addy I agree:D

Leslie dont know if i answered you but vet wanted her on a very low dose of Rimadyl - when we take her off it she groans 24/7 -- its not good for liver but off it shes worse --- catch 22 for sure! Believe me she is still no comfy like I would like her to be - but they want to hold off on the Pred Janis -- wish there was something else -- well there is the Amantadine - dont know much about it - someone said it is very much like gabapentin - which does not agree with here but I will prob has to give it a try - anyone know about it???

Dad did good with herina operation - but very sick now - home - extremely light headed and a little sick to stomach - prob all the meds - he will quite sore in the AM - but at least its done then back to the foot!!

Hope all is well with everyone - thanks for checking in and again any input on this new med please let me know

hugs xoxo

[Altira]

Me too. Let's call it a good thing. I just gave Kira Slippery Elm and it's working. It was Neeka I gave it too before. Thanks for asking about the pred. I'm very very happy they said not yet! I've never heard of the other med to try. I will say the Etogesic is working real well for Kira. I gave it once three days ago and her head came right up. I haven't given her anything since (except the SL) and the head is still up. Dr Chung discribed Etogesic as doggie aspirin.

So glad papa made it thru the opperation ok.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-and Penny-

I'm just catching up and it looks like you have been MIA for 12 days. How is it going with Penny and with your Dad?

-Susan

[Cyn719]

Hi Susan
Thanks for checking in on us. Sorry about being MIA :).....just getting all caught up
Dad had hernia operation about a week and a half ago...lots of pain and swelling....but coming along the last few days...ankle still red and alittle swollen.....but not getting worse

Penny.....well she is ok......basically her eating is very good.....her poop is good....a day here or there it gets soft...but goes back to normal...keeping Flagyl on hand for a dose here or there if needed....begs for her treats...:D but of course the biggest issue is walking.....we took her yesterday to therapist.....having a brace made for her leg. Not sure if it will help but we are trying. Vet said arthritis in her knees, hips, shoulders, front legs, stenosis in her back etc. poor girl. He showed us some exercises...and will show us more next week...wanted to do laser treatments but she has the liver tumor so can't do it...any tumors no laser treatments ..... Sad his dog died of a ruptured liver from a tumor.....that will be pennys downfall if not her legs. Still on small dose of rimadyl....dasaquin once a day ....adequan once a week...fish oil once a day....tramadol half during the day and one to one and a half at bedtime....tramadol seems to give her upset stomach and makes her groan...Emailing with Janis she made me realize this.....penny groans a lot after her pill and smacks her lips a lot to...sure sign of tummy ache....but what is there to replace it....she needs it badly! Any thoughts?

Love and hugs to all and your fur babies xoxo

[Altira]

I read somewhere someone put her dogs tramadol in empty capsules. That might help.

Slippery Elm fixed Kira's tummy upset from meds in ten minutes.

Lazer did nothing for Kira but acupunture sure seems to be working maybe.

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,

Good to hear from you. I'm glad Penny is still hanging in there. I don't have any advice for you on the Tramadol, but I'm wondering also if acupuncture might be something that would be helpful for her. Hannah had significant improvement in her mobility after acupuncture and even more improvement after the laser treatments. She was moving really well after acupuncture a few times, but had the "pep in her step" back after laser treatment. She now trots around like she did two years ago and there was a time in Sept. and again in Feb. that she was barely moving. Even prior to Sept. I thought she was just "old" and slower, but now I realize it was pain. Is acupuncture something you can try?

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone

Sorry I have not been here
Tough times...my cousin only has 2 to 4 weeks left...trying to handle this...so sad

Penny is smacking her lips. Not vomiting. Ate this am but don't want anything now. Walked ok the last few days...ok meaning good for her condition...not sure if this is the tumor..pain..or just up set..should I use the slippery elm now...dose? It's ok with tramadol..rimadyl..dasaquin..adequan..trying to look it up now. I no you gave. E links. Have to go back later to find it..just trying to get the elm now. Thanks
Ps. Just checked stool is soft again..vet said to put her on small Sally doses of Flagyl. I think Addy does this to?? THE ELM I SEE IS NATURES ANSWER SLIPPERY ELM INNER BARK...60 ml. Is that right??

Love to all of you and the fur babies xoxo

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

The slippery elm bark I bought is made by Natures Way and it is 370mg capsules. See product here:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=natures+way+slippery+elm+bark&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLJ_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14624679815894101656&sa=X&ei=1USkT7HjDpStgQfv89TqAQ&ved=0CKMBEPMCMAQ#

The slippery elm inner bark I found is made by Nature's Herbs and is 380mg capsules. See product here:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=natures+slippery+elm+inner+bark&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLJ_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12996449682469100458&sa=X&ei=A0WkT8r9EM7uggfdwPTkAQ&ved=0CI4BEPMCMAE#

If the dog is on medications, SEB should be given two hours before or two hours after medication. The reason is because SEB coats stomach which could interfere with absorption of medicine through the GI tract and into the bloodstream. My Jasper is on all kinds of heart medicine and when he had pancreatitis, flagyl and another drug was added to his regimen, so I made sure I dosed him with SEB at the right times. It worked like magic.

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

Zoe used to get 125mgs BID of flagyl. I weaned her down to 62mgs once per day. If we ever get stable with our cortsiol I will go to 62mgs every other day then a few times per week if I can maintain her stool.

Our IMS said she has had dogs on small doses of Flagyl for years and they were fine but I am not sure what that will do to Penny's liver.

Some of the IBD dogs stay on flagyl or tylan forever.

Cindy, I am so sorry about your cousin.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thank you Glynda and Addy

Glynda

So you use capsules.....others use the liquid...I called around for it...I can't find th liquid...how much do you use?

Addy

That's my concern also..her liver
She ate burger...but she's in th other room an I can still hear her smacking he lips.....upset? Pain? Wish I knew.....so afraid tumor got a lot bigge and liver I going to rupture. Hate the unknown.
Thank you...I just hope he doesn't suffer

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

Cindy... I didn't know there was Slippery Elm caps. I bought the power from Amazon.com and made a liquid out of it. I used it a while back cus I thought Kira had a belly ache. It seemed to work in TEN MINUTES.

Try it all by itself.

How much Tram are you giving and how often?

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

Do not buy the liquid...you want to get the capsules. Use the link below for directions on how to make SEB soup/tea. You can find the proper doseage for Penny's weight too. FYI, a heaping teaspoon is approximately 6 capsules. Using a spoon is difficult so I would recommend a large syringe.

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

[Altira]

Where do you get the capsules? What is the brand name?

[lulusmom]

Janis, I provided links in post #1665 above. I bought Natures Way SEB at a local health food store.

[Altira]

Near as I can tell the power of version Slippery Elm is the same thing. I mean both your version and mine is showing up on the same page. Kira likes it, she lapped it up all by itself in a dish.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Cindy,

So sorry about your cousin. :(

Can't recommend the SEB over Flagyl enough. SEB has NO neurological side effects possible and Flagyl does. It will not upset her tummy and has so many benefits beyond the digestive system. SEB has no chemical that her liver or other organs have to filter, Flagyl does. I will argue until science proves me wrong that SEB is always the better first choice - it is non-toxic, much gentler on the system (which mean gentler on her liver), can be started and stopped over and over with no tapering, it heals the body instead of suppressing the problem, no dosing schedule is needed other than 2 hour spacing from other meds...and is much less expensive for mom and dad. My books are all packed or I could tell you many more things that SEB is good for...including nausea. ;)

I hope things settle down for you soon. You are a good mom, daughter, cousin, wife, mother and friend. We are so proud that you are part of our family, too.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks Angels:)

Leslie I read the link....so u mke it lik. Cup of tea..it says put the herb in a cup but doesnt say how many capsules to make a batch.....but did say. Dog p nt size needs a quarter to half cup a day....if I got his right. and the capsules come in different strengths also

Today penny ate...she went to the bathroom four times in an hour in a half....maybe yesterday she was constipated?? Maybe that why her tmmywas so hard? But she did go earlier in the day....she seems better today. It's formed but soft...like a formed softserve:p

So first i have to find out what mg capsule to get to start this.

Also shold I give her brown or white rice.....that link did mention brown rice overlooked?

Hugssssssss

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

As I mentioned in a prior post, six capsules are equal to a heaping teaspoon. Empty contents of those six capsules into a cup and add 8 ounces of boiling water. Stir well, let cool and give to Penny. Refrigerate the remaining tea which will keep for a few days. It's virtually impossible to overdose so don't worry about the different mgs. Most are approximately the same anyway.

[Altira]

Everything ok?

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone,

Always thinking of all of you.....have my hands full with dad , my cousin, and Penny.

Making slippery elm for the first time.....opening six capsules and adding eight to twelve ounces of boiling water....so is eight or twelve .....going by the link you sent me GLYNDA...thank you:) don't want to dilute it to much.....also it says a quarter to a half cup up to four times per day....should I just start with a quarter once a day.....her poop is strange....oh look at it and the outer is dark brown but when I pick it up with the scooper the inside is like a mustard color.....some are soft ..some are formed but very soft and some have the point at the end like you mentioned ADDY:eek: The yellow ....is it from her liver or the colitis? She's lip smacking again....ok going to do this shortly....any advise on the amount of water and the dose it would be appreciated:). Thanks xoxoxoxoxo

OH I JUST SAW YOUR OTHER POST GLYNDA THAT SAID TO USE EIGHT OUNCES.....OK JUST DID IT.

Gave her a quarter of a cup with dinner......

[Cyn719]

Gave her the elm ....her tummy is growling so loud.....do I give again in the am?

[lulusmom]

Yes, you can give it to her again this morning. Just make sure you give two hours before or after medications.

[Cyn719]

Oh boy it's thundering here she was freaking so I gave her just a quarter of her tramadol with the elm in her food alittle while ago. Her dose is usually one to one and a half tramadol:eek:

Also am I reading it right....1/4 to 1/2 cup 4 times a day for dogs 50 lbs and up??

She loves it....eats so fast and wants more!! She is 74 lbs and I'm doing the 1/4 of a cup 4 times a day ....go to the half cup?

Thanks:)

[addy]

Cindy make sure the elm is about 2 hours after or before any other meds. It can affect absorbtion.

I hope it helps sweet Penny.

How are you holding up?

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Addy and Glynda

Did you see my last post....I did give the med....didn't know I wasn't suppose to.....:confused:.... Now I know...thanks

[Cyn719]

Pennys poop is worse today...she just took her Fifth dose of elm....if it didnt kick in by now show I go back to Flagyl? Thanks

Xoxo

[labblab]

Cindy, I'm so sorry Penny is doing worse. I've just looked back through your thread, and see that her poop improved last time she was on Flagyl and also that your vets don't want you using the Slippery Elm. This may just be because they're not familiar with it. But under these circumstances -- where she's not getting any better -- I would switch back to the Flagyl like your vet recommended. Flagyl does have some antibiotic/antiparasitic properties that the Slippery Elm probably does not. And since you know it worked in the past, I'd go back to trying it again. Just my two cents worth.

Marianne

[frijole]

Pennys poop is worse today...she just took her Fifth dose of elm....if it didnt kick in by now show I go back to Flagyl? Thanks

Xoxo

No - just ease up on the SEB. I didn't give Annie nearly the amount you are and I found if I gave her doses that were too high her poop got thin. Give it a rest for a day and then reduce the quantity by about 1/2 for starters. See if that doesn't help. Kim

[Cyn719]

http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html

This is the link I was following......I did call ims...wants to put her on low dose of Flagyl. Said its just continous colitis and she needs it. I will do the elm till Monday....I get the Flagyl then....she's eating so good...poop was not like a pancake tonite..it was soft serve...later it was separate pieces ...soft but formed:p:o

Update tomorrow again. Thanks angels.....always there for us:)

Hugs xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

If the SEB is starting to work, I would not change it back to the Flagyl...but that's just me. The SEB can sooth her system in many ways and does not have any chemicals her liver or other organs have to filter...and there are no neurological risks with SEB as there are with Flagyl. ;) If the vet feels there is an infection at work, then antibiotics with the SEB might be a consideration instead of the Flagyl.

One thing I want to stress - herbs like SEB don't generally work as quickly as pharmaceutical drugs so we have to give them a little more time to do their job. If Penny's stool is starting to form, and by your description that is what I gathered, then the herb has gone to work and simply needs a little time for full results.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

You know, if Penny still isn't back to normal by next week, one other option might be to use BOTH the Flagyl and the Slippery Elm. Just make sure, as always, that you're giving Penny the Slippery Elm at least two hours before or after any other meds.

I'm definitely getting the picture that Leslie is not keen on Flagyl ;). But my own thought about this is that Flagyl does have antibiotic properties that Slippery Elm does not. It also kills certain protozoal infections such as Giardia. And in addition to the antibiotic action, Flagyl has been shown to have an anti-inflammatory benefit for the large intestine. I think this combination of properties is the reason why it is a drug of choice for GI upsets.

Of course, each one of us is affected by our own experiences. My dogs have been prescribed Flagyl for years when they have GI upsets, and it has always worked great for us with no ill effects of which I'm aware. So that colors my own perspective about this. And I realize that Penny's situation is different due to her pre-existing liver issues. I would feel terrible if she were to develop problems from the Flagyl after I encourage you to go forward with it.

But given all of Penny's issues, I also feel uncomfortable telling you to ignore your vet and withhold the Flagyl since she does think it will be helpful for her. Of course, if she's even better by Monday, then it may be a moot point and you won't need to worry about adding Flagyl, anyway. But if she's not, I'm thinking you might want to consider a compromise using both treatments.

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Thanks Angels:)

Well today we had some form to her poop. The plan is leaving her on 1/4 cup three to four times a day...from the link you sent me Glynda...tues or we'd I will receive Flagyl from Diamond Back and if she still has an issue we will start it?.... Basically what u said Marianne...IMS feels the colitis is going to be chronic ..said doesn't have to do with her liver....it's so much cheaper thru this company...concern is the increased drinking and eating....could be eating more cause she feels better?? We will see...can do stim if really needed..the brace is not working to well..doesn't seem to have enough support to hold up the leg...going back to the therapy vet to have him check it out. Will update
ALSO WOULD SE CASUSE HER TO DRINK MORE???

Love hugs and prayers to all and your fur babies xoxo

[Cyn719]

Appt with Dr Sweet Friday.....penny is barely walking. Trouble getting off the ground ..when she does her back legs move slow nd he falls to the left...so is the left leg really weak? The right is the bad one so now it seems the good one can support her.

This is so sad...penny has fought thru 2 knee operations...a bleeding ulcer...cushings...maybe.....Addison's.....a huge liver tumor...she has been so happy this week....eating great....barking....and has th happy face....now this....so vet said what di I think brought it on.....my only thought the therapy...could they of injured something ? Now my other thought...cancer...if the tumor is cancer did it spread...spread to tb bone? Slip disc....? Hope we can find out....of course they just told me 300 for the X-rays...:eek: hubby loves her so much but like he said we still need a stove and a grille ...how can we do this.....so wish I did pet insurance.

Keep her in your prayers. Xoxo

[addy]

Cindy, you are so brave and so strong and Penny gets her strength from you. I am so sorry to hear she is having problems walking.

My prayers and my hopes are always with you and Penny so I will add an extra bunch today.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Addy....copying with my cousins last few days are so difficult...and to see penny like this is sad.....I want to help her....just wish I knew what is causing it.....she's tired...sleeping so much....having the tumor raises lots of questions...being sick is awful and we tend to them .....but when they can't walk what is left......hoping for some answers this week.

Xoxo

[labblab]

Cindy, I am sending much love to you and sweet Penny, too. She is such a precious girl and you are such a wonderful mom. I hope you can find some answers this week!

With many, many hugs.
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Adding my love, prayers and hugs to those of the others....and seconding what a great mom you are!

Let us know what you find out and if there is anything we can to do help, let us know that as well. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[frijole]

More love coming from me to you and Penny. We are surrounding you both with love and strength. xoxo Kim

[Bailey's Mom]

More love and good wishes coming from here. I will look for more information this week.
After Palmer, I knew any next dog would be covered by insurance, if I could manage it. The knee surgery reimbursement has been the equal of 7 years of payments. I think it's kind of like zero-financing the medical issues. I don't think you necessarily make out in the end......but it covers stuff as it happens. Just my experience.

-Susan

[jmac]

Cindy-
I'm sending love, hope, and strength your way too. I haven't been on much lately because I've been incredibly busy, but I always make time to quickly check in on what I consider my own little Cush family... I hope you can find some relief for sweet Penny.

Julie & Hannah.

[mypuppy]

Same goes for us here too sweet Cindy and Penny,

Loving thoughts and blessed prayers for you and your family during these tough times.

You know we love you...

Very tight ones...xo Jeanette and Princess

[Altira]

Cindy.... 8:::: (hugs)....

[Squirt's Mom]

Thinking of you and our sweet Penny Poo this morning.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Casey's Mom]

Hello Cindy, just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you and Penny. Hugs and and more hugs .....

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

sure thinking of you and Penny

[mypuppy]

Dear friends,

Cindy has asked me to post on her behalf and regretfully let you know her dear cousin Steven has lost his battle with cancer, and passed away peacefully in his home last night.:(

She wants to thank every single one of you who have been by her side throughout her cousin's illness, as well as Penny's, and for all your thoughts and prayers for them. It means the world to her.

Warmest regards to all.

Tight hugs always.

xo Jeanette

[jmac]

Thanks for passing on that information.

Cindy, I am so sorry to hear about your cousin's passing. My thoughts are with you and your family during this very difficult time.

Julie

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, Cindy,

I am so sorry. :( You have been so good to your family through all the hardships lately and I know they appreciate you so much...as much as we do.

Please convey my sympathies to your family and know you are all in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

My deepest sympathy to you and your family.

@-->---
RIP Steven...

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Cindy,

I am so sorry and will be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Cindy, I am so sorry for your loss. Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

(((Huge Consoling Hugs)))
Glynda

[Cyn719]

I want to thank Jeanette for posting for me--so much appreciate it and all you do for me:)

Thank you to all my Angel friends for being there for me through this very difficult time. Steven was my cousin and my friend since we were little tots. I will miss him dearly. I am having some health issues also --- I was rushed into the hospital on Wed with tachycardia..a condition I have from the radiation and chemo I had for Hodgkins Disease I had 23 years ago --- my heart rate goes to 185 and bp goes high -- its better not right yet --- trying to feel better for tomorrow --- the wake is 2 hrs from us and with the holiday traffic going into Cape Cod I assume it will take us 3 hours. On top of this my little girl is not feeling well. She vomited on Wed and again today---it was bad----we are assuming it is the Flagyl--we think the pharmacy we used made it more concentrated than it was the first time since the dose is smaller and believe thats what is making her sick---can anyone give some advice on this??? also she started taking Amentadine--dont think its that because today she vomited like ten mins after she took that and it was maybe an hour and a half after breakfast and the Flagyl that she vomited. Call is into the IMS. Again thank you all for being there for me

should i give her the slippery elm for her upset stomach - she doesnt look to good
Love and hugs always xoxoxo

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I'm so sorry for everything you're going through right now!! I really don't know what to tell you to do with Penny. I hope the IMS will call back really soon!! Did she start taking the Amantadine on the same day as the Flagyl? Has she ever taken it before? And did the vomiting start on the day you gave her either/both meds, or before or after?

Sorry for so many questions -- just struggling to think of some answers...

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Amentadine was started on Tuesday and the flagyl was started on wed -so close -- yes this is hard - she took both meds on Wed and got sick like 5 hrs later and it was just like it went down - now today she got sick and hour and a half after the food and the flagyl and the amentadine was give only ten mins before she got sick - confusing for sure --- she looks so sick now - I want the give the SE cause its suppose to make the tummy better??? not sure thought??? Thanks

[labblab]

we think the pharmacy we used made it more concentrated than it was the first time since the dose is smaller and believe thats what is making her sick-
I've always gotten Flagyl in pill form, but it sounds as though Penny's Flagyl may be a liquid? That's worrisome if it looks different than it has in the past. Yes, I would stop giving it to her until you can talk to the IMS. I wouldn't give any more Amantadine, either (is that for pain, I'm guessing?). Poor little girl. My worry about giving slippery elm to her is that, if the vet thinks she needs some other type of medication ASAP, the slippery elm may interfere with the absorption of the other med. I believe I'd hold off on everything until you've talked to the vet.

Did the vet's office give you any idea as to when you'd hear back from them?

Marianne

[Cyn719]

no they said they would call back today.....yes its liquid ..she didnt get sick the last time ...its different... they do think this is a more concentrated one ....she just woke up...shes outside....she looks better and is barking...drinking some water... dont think the vet will give me meds today ....plus I leave 7am tomorrow morning and wont be back to at least 9pm tomorrow night but my son is staying with her ... Im not going to let him give her any meds at all so maybe I can give her the SE?? I will hold off for now maybe some of the members here that use it often will be along...thanks Marianne...I agree no more med just yet

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Sweetie,

My thoughts and prayers go with you. Please let us hear from you as soon as possible.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Well not sure if I did the right thing or not but I did give her the SE with some rice and alittle chicken. She lapped it right up --- she was so hungry and seemed ok--- I really believe it was the concentrated Flagyl-- IMS never called back so I had to do something---Glynda and Leslie really seem to believe in the SE for upset stomach and diarrhea so I went with it for her upsent tummy. she did good with it last week for her diarrhea..it helped just wasnt enough. Her panting is constant--her appetite seemed to increase and so did the water intake. Cushings--dont know---the liver so enlarged its pushing on her tummy???-the arthritis?? Its so hard to know with this little girl--I guess some tests are needed soon - I was just waiting for some quotes-- have to pay $1400 this week for Mikes summer classes:eek: so its hard to do this testing. So your advice on me using the SE tonight??? Thanks everyone:)

Hugs xoxo

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

I don't think the SE will be a problem for Penny. If anything, I think it will help soothe her stomach. The only issue with SE is that you have to make sure you give it to her 2 hours before meds or 2 hours after so that it doesn't mess with absorption.

Glynda

[addy]

Sweet Cindy I dont have any advice but I have quite a big hug.

(((((((((((((((((((((hug))))))))))))))))))))))))

I sure hope you can feel it.

Flagyl can cause tummy upset and if the liquid looks different, dont give it to her. I think you did the right thing.

love and more hugs,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thank you Marianne Glynda Leslie and Addy:)

That hug feels so good Addy- really needed it!!:):)

I am holding off on all meds till next week...if needed I am going to go back on the original Flagyl from my vet. She held down the rice and chicken and SE so far. She is not right for sure - just wants to lay flat out on her side - tummy still upset or whatever is going on --vet next week--will be gone all day tomorrow

Hugs to all xoxoxo

[labblab]

I am holding off on all meds till next week...if needed I am going to go back on the original Flagyl from my vet.
I can't believe the vet did not call you back when you are facing a long holiday weekend ahead of you!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Cindy, where did the Flagyl come from that you have been using this week? Had you been getting it from the vet previously, and instead got it somewhere else this time from a prescription the vet wrote? Were the dosing instructions different this time around?

I am still puzzled as to why it came as a liquid. Was it a liquid from your vet, too? As I say, I've gotten it for years for my dogs, but always in the form of a pill. I have to agree with you that I wonder whether this liquid Flagyl is the source of the problem -- that maybe there was a dosing error or some component of the liquid suspension that has made Penny so sick. If it came from a "human" pharmacy, I wonder if they used some sort of suspension that is OK for humans, but not for dogs :( :(.

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Marianne

Finally they called back - Ok the original Flagyl came from my regular vet -yes they do make it in a liquid for dogs and they flavor it - for Penny it was chicken and she loved the flavor of it - it is expensive for the liquid but better for me than shoving more pills into her - this time the IMS told me I could get it from Diamond Back Pharmacy for animals out of AZ. so the difference is they made it more concentrated - the first Flagyl from my vet looked yellowish like gravy and smelled liked chicken and we had to give her more of it at each dose. This Flagyl is white - smells like a antibiotic and we only have to give her a small amount at each dose. To begin with Flagyl is a very bitter awful tasting medicine. they said at the vet when they give it to animals there most drool alot and salivate cause it is so awful.....so maybe this is the problem --- its to concentrated and strong for her ---so if she needs it next week we will have to go back to the original one for sure. If this is the problem -- right now she still is laying on her side - not looking good again - my concern is the tumor in her liver - they said if she continues like this I have to take her in - I hope she is better tonight - I have to leave tomorrow for the wake at 730 and will be gone till 900 tomorrow nite -- my son is here - I will keep checking in --- So what do you make of it after I explained to medication??

[labblab]

Since Diamondback made the Flagyl, the suspension should be OK for dogs. But I agree with you, I don't think I'd give Penny any more of it. The timing may just be a coincidence, but I wouldn't want to risk that there's something about it that is making her sick.

I am just so very sorry that Penny is doing so poorly. I understand why you're worried about the tumor. I'll keep all fingers crossed that she looks better in the morning before you need to leave.

Sending many more hugs to you all,
Marianne

[GabbySue]

The concentrated Flagyl could very well be causing her vomiting,not only is it the most bitter medicine but in humans it can also cause a metallic taste that is rather offputting.
Did they recommend anything for her to take for the vomiting? There are some drugs that shouldn't be given with Flagyl for the stomach upset, Zantac is one of them, but Pepcid can be given, I always keep some on hand.
When we first got Gabby from rescue she would eat stuff to make herself vomit and bring up needlepoint thread(which went on for about a year). A blander diet of really cooked boiled rice and chicken if her diet allows will be easier to digest, and I always give a supplement that has probiotics and enzymes to a dog that has vomited to replenish what's been lost. My favorite is Nature's Farmacy Digestive Enhancer. If I run out of that I just give them something from the health food store.
Hope this helps going into the holiday weekend.

[Cyn719]

Thank you so much GabbySue...I appreciate the info...I did give her pepcid and gave her rice and chicken tonight...so far so good...tomorrow in the AM I will give her more rice and chicken and see how she does...I did use slippery elm too tonight...I hope that was ok....I didnt get any negative feedback on it....now wondering if I show continue it tomorrow.

Hopefully she will be ok tomorrow since I have to leave her so long...not that I don't trust my son...but :D:D:D....no he will be a good dog sitter......he loves his little sister:)

Hugs xoxo

[labblab]

Hi Cindy,

I know you will not be home to read this note until much later, but just wanted to tell you I'm thinking about you guys today. I hope so much that Penny is having a better day.

Sending many hugs to both you and sweet Penny,
Marianne

[addy]

Me too, Cindy, I know it is such a hard, long,emotional day. I hope Penny is well when you finally get home. I am sure Mike is taking good care of your girl.

love,
addy

[marie adams]

Dear Cindy,

I want to let you know how sorry I am for the loss of your cousin and friend.

I hope Penny is feeling a little better and you too!!! You certainly know how to have fun--not!!! I wish I could take on some of the sorrow and pain so you could just have to concentrate on Penny and yourself.

(((((HUGS)))))

[Bailey's Mom]

Thinking of you and Penny. How are things going now? Do you have an appointment to go in to the vet's?
Hugs and more hugs.

Susan

[Altira]

Cindy? Is everything ok? Are YOU ok?

[Casey's Mom]

How are you Cindy? Hope all is well and that you and Penny are holding up.

Love and hugs,

[labblab]

Still thinking about you girls, and continuing to beam healing thoughts your way!

Marianne

[jmac]

Cindy,

I've been thinking of you and Penny too. I hope you're both doing okay, and hope we'll hear from you soon!

Julie & Hannah

[apollo6]

Dear Cindy and Penny
I hope you both are doing better.Sorry, I gat so wrapped up with Apollo's issues, not realizing you have your plate full also. Another suggestion maybe to Pepcid, 10 mg. 1/2 tablet twice a day, run it by the vet. Apollo has a lot of stomach issues also. I hate what the medications do to them.
Also, to save money, I have ordered a lot of my medications on line with DRs Foster & Smith, instead of letting the vet fill and have saved a good 40 % or more, free shipping on some items and no tax.
YOU would be surprised at the markups. We need all the help we can get.

Another site is ALLVET MEDS, free shipping on orders over $100.00 or more.
Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Thank you to all my Angels for checking on us. Still dealing with the loss of my cousin and dealing with losing Penny. Took her to the vet Wed. She lost another six pounds....either the tumor is cancer and causing weight loss or the tumor is not and is growing so fast it's eating up her nutrients. Right now can barely walk....has had a few days of throwing up her food four to food hours after eating....nothing digested. As of yesterday she threw up again and after not has barely eaten a thing....no treats.... Just a little chicken...no interest....vet said she things she feels the mass threw her tummy. Must e causing her to feel full...and upset her....pants a lot tumors shying in diaphragm??...vet said when she won't get up and stops eating we will know its time....and sure enough she is stopping. Just so hard to lose her and Steven so close together....I won't hold on to her for selfless reasons....I will know when it's time...I'm still cry everyday over Steven and now this...timing is not good....can't imagine a day without her. She keeps me going while mike is at school and Dave always working.....hard to be home alone....I pray shes not in pain and I do the right thing.....

Hugs to all and your babies xoxo

[frijole]

Cindy,

Please know that you are never alone. We've been with you and Penny the whole time and will continue to pray and flutter. My heart hurts thinking of everything you have gone thru in such a short amount of time. Don't worry about us - just enjoy every single minute, every hug, every kiss, every second you have with her. Take tons of photos, videos, and just know we are here when you need us. Sending much love, Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hugs to you and Penny. Judi

[addy]

we love you, Cindy and we love Penny, neither of you are ever alone.

[jmac]

Cindy,
I am so sorry for all you are going through. I am sending you hugs and strength, and thinking of you and Penny a lot. Enjoy every minute with her until it's time to let her go. We're here for you.

Julie & Hannah

[marie adams]

Dear Cindy,

We all wish we could be there with you. We know how hard this time is. It is hard to lose a family member and then dealing with losing your Penny soon--just not fair...:(

As everyone has said you are not alone--let us help you through all this pain. I know it helped me...

((((HUGS))))

[Cyn719]

She is sleeping...she ate just alittle burger and chicken....not to much....not throwing up......trying to figure if it's the Flagyl.....which vet doesn't thing so..HAS ANYONE WHO USES IT HAD THIS SIDE EFFECT WITH YOUR DOG?? Maybe the Amadentin? Or the combo of the two. Will see how the appetite is tomorrow. That will tell all.

Xoxo

[frijole]

Cindy - I never used Flagyl but I just googled it and the first side effect mentioned is loss of appetite. Kim

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/flagyl-side-effects.html

[Cyn719]

Kim. I just looked....thanks ......

ALSO does anyone know....CAN PEPCID AND FLAGYL BE GIVEN 20 mins APART?

Can Rimady and Flagyl be given together? It's so hard to get these pills in...

[Bailey's Mom]

Cindy I am so sorry Penny is not doing better. What you wrote reminded me of Palmer in his last couple of weeks. It is so very hard to watch them suffer and so very hard to let them go. As someone else said-enjoy EVERY minute that you have with Penny. Love her as much as you can and be by her side. She will feel your love.
-Susan

[Altira]

Cindy.... You are being so brave and reasonable and I'm so proud of you!!!

All that throwing up, Mira never did that. She just stopped eating. Even chicken. She took prednisone, tramidol, gabapenton, some orental natural stuff, something to make her want to eat, pepsid and probably flagyl too. I never knew what to give her. The prednisone helped her the most. Kept her walking. She was dying of liver and lung cancer.

I feel so sad.

Don't loose the sight of what a dog is and our need for them. All will be well. Dogs do this. I am so proud of you. I am with you. You are my friend.

[labblab]

Cindy, my heart is with you, too. I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you about the various combinations of meds. Probably most every one could have the potential to upset Penny's stomach, and it is just hard to know which ones are helping at this point and which ones are not.

When you reach the point where forcing Penny to take the pills is too hard or upsetting to you both, you may want to ask the vet about just stopping some or most of them. That way, you can spend these hours and days just focused on hugging and loving Penny.

I wish I could scoop you both up in my arms and hold you close. In my mind's eye, that is exactly what I am doing this morning. Imagining I am there with you, and holding you close. Please tell Penny how much she is loved by us all. Tell her what a good, brave girl she is. And you are such a dear, brave girl, too, Cindy. We are there with you both, even though you cannot see us. We are there with you and we will stay with you. Neither you nor Penny will ever be alone.

Sending many loving hugs across the miles,
Marianne

[addy]

Our Ims said I could give Zoe Pepcid and 30 minutes later give her Flagyl. As Marianne said, with so many pills, you cant know what may be causing tummy problems.

Zoe never threw up from flagyl, but she never vomits. If she vomits I know it is bad but when I did give her pepcid, it upset her tummy flora and she started spitting up in the middle of the night when her tummy was empty so I stopped the pepcid.

That is all the expereince I have had regarding those two drugs.

Cindy, I am sending huge hugs, hope you can feel them. We are all here for you. We will never leave you alone.

[SasAndYunah]

Dear Cindy,

I am so sorry for everything you are going through... Kind of like Marianne said, try and make her last time here with you about quality, quality time for you and Penny. And if Penny does have (liver)cancer, that in itself can make her nauseous... In this stage, meds won't really help Penny anymore except for meds that make her comfortable like for instant painmedication.

No matter how difficult this is for me to say at this time...I really do not believe in what your vet said: "vet said when she won't get up and stops eating we will know its time..." And I know these things are so very personal and of course it is your decission and I will understand every decission you may make. But I personally feel that when a dog no longer gets up and stops eating all together, it's a bit late. Especially in a dog you know that won't heal, only get worse. Isn't it those last very difficult days we want to spare them? Because there is no need to wait that long...the outcome is already known to us. In my, very personal opinion, euthenasia is not there to make our loved ones pass quickly and comfortably but to spare them the unnecesary decline and last difficult days, weeks, days...whatever the situation may be.

And with so much on your plate lately, and the already hurt and grief you're experiencing over the loss of your cousin, I so understand it is all so overwhelming right now. All I can say is that I think of you and dear sweet Penny a lot eventhough I am not here a lot... I regard you as a dear friend and will always be here for you,

Hugs and lots of strength,

Saskia and Mhina.

[Skye]

I see souls and hearts across the country connecting, joining arm in arm and standing in a circle, are sweet furbabies right beside us, and in the center of our circle.....I see you Cindy, and your complete soul wrapped around Penny holding her to your heart. With every ounce of you, you embrace her with all the love only a mothers heart is capable of holding.....Penny feels this, Cindy....she DOES FEEL YOUR LOVE for her. She doesnt want to depart from you, nor would you ever want to depart from her.....love so true is truly from Heaven. To your last breath you will offer your all to her, as she to you. There are no regrets, hearts over flow with memories of how this love has made your souls dance together, and each heart asks please, allow one more to be made. As in marriage vows, in sickness and in health.......united as one....amazing how that speaks to forms of TRUE LOVE felt. Not limited to marriage in traditional sense. If one of you departs from this journey that has never left the other standing alone........be assured that from the moment of the bond being sealed with yours and Pennys heart......you will never have one beat of your heart without her near. Her love will guide you Cindy......she has always been right there, during this painful time she will not forsake you....she will still be there guiding you to where you next step will be taken to carry your heart to where it is needed....like carrying the torch......your heart. She will take this part of her journey very seriously, so listen with ears and eyes tuned in to her guidance. Even during this time..... something said to me once.....my eyes flooding now........the physical form is not who we are, its just a temporary place we live, like a house. Then one day we move. doesnt mean were gone........we moved into another house. Not gone, not forgotten, just different form. All easier said than to accept. I so know this. I have never met you in person, nor anyone on this forum, but i see and feel so clearly all of us joining together circling you. You have given to all of us here, that there is no way ever, you will face this challenge alone. lifting you and penny, embracing both of you, comforting and soothing..........Cindy.....all you need to do is breathe.

[Skye]

on pills...........can any of these be given in gel caps? why i ask is because you can prick the capsule, and squeeze it on to the gums. I have had used bendrayl that way before.

[Cyn719]

Thank you all......

Today vet is saying maybe the colitis is making her so sick.....yes maybe because her stool is just liquid.......or yes tumor is making her sick.....but she said have to treat the colitis to see if he gets better...process do elimination. Ok but if she's eating just a bit how do I give her the Flagyl on an empty stomach? Can't give SE and Flagyl right. She likes the SE......what do I do can't ask vet thet won't advise on SE........:confused:

[Skye]

does she give kisses at all? or lick lotion off hands? (i know that is NOT good for them) worst case.....can you crush tablet and put on tip of your nose or where ever she gives kisses? (dont breathe crumbs in) or can you put tiny bit of lotion on and rub crumbs on hand, then casually see if she will lick your hand? as far as food...........can she have any of those ensure or baby formuals? or even a puppy formula?