Vetoryl / Cushings Disease - Dear Penny has passed

[Cyn719]

This is Pennys blood work -- very upset about her liver -- they said they might not want to operate because of it -- well regular vet said that --- very very upset --- can you please read this and give me feed back asap -- I would really appreciate it xo


AST (SGOTT) 91 15-66
ALT (SGPT) 672 12-118
ALK(PHOSP) 7399 5-131
GGPT 28 1-12

CALCIUM 11.5 8.9-11.4

CHOL 406 92-324
PLATELET 553 170-400
T4 <0.5 0.8-3.5
Urinalysis
Spec
Gravity 1.012 1.015-1.050

THIS WAS SEPT 2011

ALB 4.4 2.5 - 4.4
ALP 2400 20-150
ALT 372 10-118
AMY 852 200-120
TBIL 0.3 0.1-0.6
BUN 22 7-25
CA 11.4 8.6-11.
PHOS 5.7 2.9-6.6
CRE 1.0 0.3-1.4
GLU 122 60-110
NA+ 146 138-160
K+5.1 3.7-5.8
TP 7.1 5.4-8.2
GLOB 2.8 2.3-5.2

Is Milk Tistle something I should be using or at this level - I read a story dogs level was 7000 and this product took the numbers way down???

[Bailey's Mom]

I'm looking at Palmer's records and I don't see AST....maybe it is called something else? I also don't see anything with a range of 15 - 66.
Alt was 89
Alk Phos was 567...never got higher than 1200, was always over high end of range
GGT (same thing as GGPT?) was 18
Calcium = 11.5
Cholesterol was 281
Platlet was 799
I don't see T4 anywhere in his testing - nor the remainder. I don't know if that helps at all...........Looks like Penny is out of the range on all indicators. I don't know what that means. There are folks on here who can interpret these numbers. I am sure someone will be along today to help out.

If the doc said she might not want to operate, did she say what's next?

I'm sorry I can't give you any help. When I was going through this, all these numbers just swam around in my head. It was my friends on here who understood them and could make suggestions.

Hang in there.
-Susan

[Squirt's Mom]

Take a deep breath, sweetie. Sooo many things can affect the liver and it is a remarkable organ in that it has the ability to regenerate and often heal itself. The liver is one of those organs that filters toxins and other undesirables from the blood so they can be excreted from the body. So the more work it has to do, the more those enzymes can elevate. Now, remember all the meds Penny has been and still is taking. That right there could be part of these readings.

Also, remember a GP vet said this to you, not the surgeon. The surgeon is the one who KNOWS when something is too big a risk so wait until he/she has a chance to see the results.

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks sweet Leslie

They said its prob from all the Rimadyl and could be from the cushings which the vets keep saying she has or doesnt have. Last xray showed it very enlarged. xoxo

[Altira]

Maybe the question for the moment is how is Penny? Is she eating? Walking? Seem in pain? What meds is she taking right now? When do you see the dentist?

You know I have all of these pre surgery blood tests. You know the in house type and they never look good to me and yet the vets just go ahead and everything turns out ok.

I wonder, can they pull a dogs tooth with just like novacane?

What's Penny like at the vets? Does she get real frightened?

[Cyn719]

Shes eating --- walking still very stiff -- shes kind of sluggish -- I cant figure amount of pain she is in --- she is groaning on and off -- is that the tooth -- the arthritis --- the inflamed liver?? No it cant be pulled -- has to be surgery -- the roots are very very deep. On tramadol .... rimdady ........ dasaquin..... adequan shots....... pepcid ........ very nervous at vets....never ever growled or snapped at anyone....xo

[Altira]

I don't know but I read somewhere to see if a tooth is giving a dog pain you flick it with you finger nail and see what reaction you get. But gee if it's really hurting her you hate to do that but maybe you need to know. I think I might try it real gentle. That's what dentists do to us.

[Altira]

Oh yes, I don't know if this would be the same but my Mira had two huge cancer tumors in her liver that killed her and she never moaned or groaned ever! She did take prednasone for the two weeks before she died but up until then she never cried or anything. But she had great trouble walking which they said might be her compensating for the pain inside. But she was holding up all four legs at differant times. I think you are just seeing the rear legs right?

[Altira]

The doctors haven't mentioned prednisone? It was like a miracle for Mira. We were able to go on walks. She obviously wasn't well but she wasn't in pain either. She never whimpered ever.

[Cyn719]

Janis

wow funny you said that..... yes with Penny its been the back legs BUT lately she is having problems with with her front legs also-hubby brought it to my attention. Yup he was right.....the other day she stood up.....stood there shaking like a leaf and would not move....strange ..... front legs very stiff...sometimes looks like she doesnt know how to move them...poor girl

Dr Joo at Tufts has been emailing me tonight -- she said has Pennys blood work --- contacted Dr Lester cause she knows her well - is waiting for Dr Lester to call her back -- said its been hours and they said shes doing a procedure --- she just emailed again thats she is still waiting --- she doesnt think we will hear from her till Monday now.

As far as the tooth Dr Gifford checked it - say yes she is in pain - so she must of did something to know that

xo

[Altira]

How nice to have at least one vet trying to help. I'd ask about the pred forsure Cindy. I'd start her on it tomorrow if it was me.

[Cyn719]

When IMS calls I will ask. The last we spoke about they said rimadyl and tramadol was all they wanted to use but who knows now.. Still waiting for urine culture also.. Thanks for being so sweet and thoughtful:)

Love and hugs xoxoxo

[Spiceysmum]

Hi Cindy,
This is only my opinion but I would be careful of giving Penny pred especially with her liver values being so high. We nearly lost Brin a few weeks ago through internal bleeding most probably caused by the low dose of pred he had been on for a month for allergies. I know some dogs can take it with no problems and it can help but I will never let him have it again. Hope Penny can get some relief from her tooth soon.

Linda

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,
I am sorry to hear you and Penny are struggling. I don't have a lot of knowledge, but I would be worried about Prednisone with Penny right now, but I would see what others think. Hannah's ALKP has been elevated (it was the sign that made the vet suspect Cushing's) and she just went on Denamarin a month ago. She was tested this week and it has been cut in half in just 30 days. Could you try something like that? Keep in mind, also, that infections, even in the mouth, can cause a liver value to be really elevated. My parents had a rescue Shih Tzu who had liver values sky high and after a dental they dropped significantly. Also, the acupuncture and laser treatment really helped Hannah with her sore back. They say that both really help with arthritis as well. I'm not sure if those are options you have, but that may be something to consider too.

I'm thinking of you both and sending positive vibes your way...

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Susan, Leslie, Janis, Linda and Julie

Thank you all so much. yes this is so hard. Waiting for my vet to call. Is suppose to call around 2 ish. IMS must be gone for the long weekend.

Julie

I will ask about that medication. So how is Hanna doing on it? No side effects? With penny part of it must be from being on the rimadyl. Yes it could be the cushing...does she have it .... Did she have it.....confusing.....hope I get some answers. Does Hanna have a low T4 also?

Again thanks my friends ...... It nice to have you all here.:)

Love and hugs xoxo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-

The Denamarin is a liver supplement. It is pretty highly recommended and successful. It is nice not to have to worry about contraindications as well. Hannah has not changed one bit-no side effects at all. I just give her a pill in the morning an hour before she eats. We initially had tablets she had to swallow (I just used a tiny bit of butter) but today I picked up some chewable tablets.

Good luck to you...hope you'll get some helpful info. from the vet.

Julie & Hannah

[jmac]

One more thing...you asked about T4-that's a thyroid hormone, isn't it? I am hypothyroid and I know she checks my T4, but maybe I'm mistaken. If that is what it is, Hannah's hasn't been checked for a while because it was always normal. If it's not thyroid related, I don't see it anywhere in her test results. She has just been having a smaller panel NSAID monitoring done these last 4-5 times for $77.50 since we are just trying to monitor her liver values.

Julie & Hannah

[Rebelsmom]

Hope yo get a few answers today when they call.. I would be freaking out like you if I saw numbers that high, but like someone said with her having an infection in her mouth plus the pain medication she is one I would think that could be skewing the numbers..

When is the last time she had a stim test to check he cortisol also? Maybe Cushings is rearing it's head now more..

[Cyn719]

Hi. POST 1251 has the results

My GP called. Said could be cancer...hepatitis....cushings......from the meds....and maybe one more thing.....I was nervous....may of forgot ....should of written it down....but doesn't matter need an ultra sound to find out. She can have the traveling doctor come in and do it for $275.

IMS had her office call.....said the radiologist can do it for $200 and I can take it back to my GP to go over it with me or IMS can admit her where I drop her off they do ultra sound then when I go pick her up she meets with me and that's $260. It's like a menu ..... Pick one!! Well my vet is out ....she's just a GP and wants the most $$ and why just have radiology do it with no one to talk to so of course I want the IMS so we can discuss it. Wow. Everything is $$

Julie

I mention the med you said...it could be a possibility depending on what results show.

She scared me. She said if it was just the Alk that was high that's one thing but with all 3 high thats very concerning. Ugh sick to stomach. Can't get appt till Friday. Plus her poor tooth!

Could use some prayers from my Cush Angels..scared

Love and hugs xoxo

[Altira]

I'm right here Cindy. Feeling pretty upset too. What's Penny doing? Could she go for a short walk maybe? Maybe the fresh air might be good for both of you. Xxoooxxxoo

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm really sorry to read about your struggles Cindy. Thinking of you and Penny

[Altira]

Cindy? You ok?

[Cyn719]

I emailed u

[Cyn719]

Thanks all....thank God she is having a pretty good day.......just can't fill her up the last two days....she is bohering me...Mike....Dave...the neighbor...who will give her a treat...ugh that isn't good! Unless she's just eating better cause she's having a good day?? The answer to that.......who knows!!!:). We will see...everyday is an adventure for sure! Hope I can stay sane till next Friday!!

Xoxo

[mypuppy]

Hey again friend,

I always feel when they eat, it's good, except when it's due to high cortisol I suppose? Ugh. Remain sane till Friday, highly impossible:eek: :eek:It's still unbelievable to me that they are making your girl wait this long, specially when she has the tooth issue going.

We love you and your girl very much, and are here with you every step of the way.

Tight hugs...xo Jeanette

[jmac]

Cindy-
I just want you to know I am here thinking of you and your sweet Penny. I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. I sure hope you can hang in there until Friday, and that Penny will be okay too.

Sending lots of positive thoughts your way...
Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks Angels:)

Xoxo

[Harley PoMMom]

Could use some prayers from my Cush Angels..scared

Love and hugs xoxo

Sending tons of love, hugs, and prayers...Lori

[Cyn719]

Thanks Lori:)

xo

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Cindy,

Because of Penny's recent elevated liver levels I would suggest having a bile acid test performed. Here's a link with info about this test: http://www.fetchdog.com/learn-connect/dog-resource-library/health/diagnostic-tests/Bile-Acid-Testing-for-Dogs/D/300600/P/1:5:55:601:6103/I/AR000010416

Will be keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Cyn719]

Thanks Lori

I read the article and will speak to the IMS about it.

Xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Sending you many hugs and gently belly rubs this morning along with prayers and healing white light for both.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Casey's Mom]

Hi Cindy, I too am sending positive prayers and healing white light for you and Penny. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and many hugs,

[lvasilio]

Hi Cindy,
My heart goes out to you and Penny. You two just can't catch a break. There are so many good folks giving good advice at least you can feel you are asking the right questions. Hang in there
Lesley and Jake

[Cyn719]

Lesley, Ellen and Leslie

Thank you sweet Angels!!

She is ok today. Still eating good. Drinking is good. Just aliitle increase in panting and asking for treats.....but that's better than not wanting any:) she sometimes forgets she's an old lady....jumping around like a nut last nite to get our attention....so today she's stiff legging it with her front leg .... But seems happy.......it's going to be a very long week....that's for sure!!

Thanks for checking on her

Love and hugs xoxo

[Altira]

A long week for sure. Well like you say, wanting treats is good. If that tooth was hurting that bad I don't think she'd be eating. I'm hoping so. How about cooking a chicken or a turkey and sharing it with her..?;)

[labblab]

Cindy, have you ever gotten the chance yet to talk directly to the dentist in order to find out if she truly thinks Penny has to have the liver issues sorted out before she'll do anything at all about the tooth? I just can't imagine them making Penny wait this long with an exposed nerve without trying something, even if it is only stop-gap. Maybe there is nothing that can be done short of extraction, but I still hope you can talk to the dentist yourself about this. It must be torture for her, poor baby...:(

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

I had wondered about a "filling" of some sort for that tooth, as well. Something to cover the exposed nerves and cut down on the sensitivity reactions. That's what would be done in a human to save a tooth, if possible, or as a stop-gap measure until the tooth could be removed but have no idea if this is even possible in dogs. I'm glad Marianne brought it up. In humans, there are several temporary methods so it might be worth a call to the dentist at the very least.

And I agree with checking with the dental team about these liver values, too.

Good to hear she had a better nite day yesterday! Hang in there, sweetie!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Janis, Marianne and Leslie

Penny is a dog that changes by the minute not by the day...:D shes a handful for sure...but love her to death!!! Yes Penny has chicken and turkey here -- today she gave me a problem eating and I tried both....yesterday she ate good so I am not stessing....I truly believe she does not like this Kibble....but she has this energy today and very verbal....she wants treats treats treats... last nite she was groaning ...gave her tramadol- I usually only give one but Rx says to give 1-1/2 so last night I gave 1-1/4---she went out at midnite-4:00-5:45 and 8:00-like that pill didnt work - maybe UTI isnt gone yet?? results tomorrow.

As far as the dentist - she email me and said she would not do surgery with those results - she put it into the hands of the IMS - IMS said ultrasound - and after that would talk to the dentist - as far as the tooth the bottm is broken off - the side has a shaved piece missing - my vet said it nees to come out looks like it is exposed - but dentist did say may the root is dying so she may not be in as much pain as before but still needs to come out -- I mentioned when she broke the last canie about bonding it and they said they dont do that with dogs??

Thanks were are right now - Friday can come fast enough!! going to call tomorrow to see if they have cancellations for Wed. If not have to do the Friday.

Thanks Angels:)

Love and Hugs xoxo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,

Just stopping by to tell you I'm thinking of you and Penny and sending warm thoughts your way...

Julie & Hannah

[Skye]

is absoel safe for dogs? for some reason i thought it was okay......but i am not positive. or even the tempory fillings that are medicated its sort of a clay like material that you just place in tooth and it turns solid. you can get items like that at the store. Might even just feed and tack stores for items.

[Altira]

Yeah, I read that absoel is safe for dogs. But do you think it's strong enough to do any good? Some where I read that ice is good too. Well it sure ISN'T for us humans! Hot and cold is the worst. She said the dentist would not do it with those results. Is the dentist requesting the US to see how bad it is? Poor Cindy... Just go there and sit in the waiting room with Penny and cry until they do it.. bet they'd fit you in. Just show up at the door at 7am. :(

[Bailey's Mom]

LOL Janis!
I agree....camp out in their reception area. Tell all the clients they would not help you.

-s

[Cyn719]

Hi

Sorry I havent posted and sorry I have not been welcoming - this thing with Penny is just overwhelming - Her tooth is bothering her but she is still eating - and this thing with her liver has scared me to death!! I cant get out of my head when the vet said - if one liver result was high it probably would be something we could work with but with all three liver levels high it really is not looking good at all --- I eat - sleep and drink those words - She goes in tomorrow at 8am - they will call when she is done - we will pick her up and the IMS will call later in the afternoon with results -- she never calls till after 4:00. I will post then. Cush Angel prayers needed ---

Hugs xoxoxo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,

I've been thinking of you and Penny and I remembered her appointment was tomorrow. I will definitely say a prayer for her and send warm thoughts your way. Don't apologize for not posting. Your job is taking care of Penny right now. Don't worry about anything else. I hope you'll get some answers tomorrow.

Julie & Hannah

[janemin]

I hope you dont mind me adding a prayer for Penny.I have read all of your posts & she Kind of tugs at you.

[Casey's Mom]

Cindy I am praying for you and Penny. Just try and enjoy her and not to let your anxiety show because they do pick up on it. I know that is much easier said than done but I know with my Casey she really could pick up on my anxiety and I would just think calm and breathe. It really does help. Lots of love and good healing thoughts coming your way.

Love and hugs,

[Harley PoMMom]

Tons of prayers being said and sent for you and sweet Penny.

Love and huge hugs,
Lori

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I see it's almost 8:00 eastern time, so Penny must be almost ready to be seen. Sending prayers and healing thoughts up to you two...

Many, many hugs coming your way,
Marianne

[addy]

Cindy I have not forgotton Penny's appointment today. I hope you can feel my spirit spending the day with you.:):):)

I figure if I say a prayer every 30 minutes, God will have to pay attention and if we all are saying prayers today, surely our voices will be heard.

love you,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

You and Penny are wrapped in love and support today with all the cush angels hovering around. I pray her levels are better today, that the NSAIDs are to blame and that with a new pain management plan, the liver will recover.

Please give Penny a hug from me - we snaggle-toothed gals gotta stick together! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. This is an order, young lady - do not worry about this forum right now. Post when you can but focus on your baby girl. That is your first, and most important, role. And we love you dearly.

[Cyn719]

I can't post much now to many tears....IMS called.....large mass in liver.....12 cm which she said is 6 inches.......not good....she strongly feels it is cancer. Wants to keep her to do liver biopsy...I said no.....Dave went to get her......we don't have $1000 on top of today's $300 to do that.....and if it's cancer....I will not put her thru treatment. Slight chance it's just enlarge node. Can put her on liver support pills. Any feedback will help

Xo

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear, sweet Cindy,

My heart is breaking. This was not what any of us wanted to hear. :(

I know where you are coming from about further testing and consequent treatment. This is a conversation I have been having with myself about Squirt for some time now...and it is a most painful conversation. For what it's worth, in your shoes, I would make the same decision for Squirt - she has been through enough surgeries and has had a great life. I couldn't bring myself to make her remaining days ones of vet visits, pokes and prods and cuts, drugs... Rather, I would do what I could to help her feel as good as possible for as long as possible, loving her and spoiling her.

You know we are with you and will support you, your family, and Penny in any way we can.

Huge hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I have no words to tell you how sorry I am. I too am sending you huge hugs. As Leslie says, we are here for you and Penny no matter what this turns out to be. We will not leave your side, and we will enfold Penny in our wings.

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Cindy, I'm so sorry to hear this news. For what it's worth, I agree with Leslie and would approach things exactly as you have chosen. I'll be with here with all the others who love you both and want to help in any way we can. You are a huge part of our family and while I may not post much on your thread, I never miss day without checking in on you. You and yours remain in my prayers.

((((Huge Hugs))))
Glynda

[marie adams]

Dearest Cindy,

I too support your decision. It was the same decision we made for Maddie. We didn't want to put her through anymore vet visits, testing, or treatment. We enjoyed her for the short time we had.

Our thought was why give them that much money when we know in our hearts it won't work. So many of us have traveled this road and it hurts so much. I think I cried almost everyday for 3 weeks because I knew it would be the day I would have to make that decision.

We are hear for you all the way, please never doubt yourself because you have been there for Penny and she knows it. Maybe the medicine will help and you won't have to make that decision for quite sometime.

((((HUGS & SUPPORT))))

[jmac]

Cindy-
Sending you and Penny hugs and love. I'm so sorry. I think you made the right decision for Penny not to do the biopsy or try to treat cancer. You have loved her and done everything you can for her and she knows that. I'll be thinking of you all day.

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

I'm here too Cindy. How slight of chance it is enlarged nodule? Did she give you odds?

I would have done the same thing you did today Cindy. I will do the same thing for Zoe when then time comes.

((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))

When you feel better, when you can talk, you will tell us more. Until then know we are all here for you and love you and hold you and Penny close to our hearts.

love,
addy

[mypuppy]

we love you,
penny girl
and
cindy...:(

god
bless
you...

Tight
hugs...

[Cyn719]

Thank you so much to each and every one of you --- what would I do without my Cush Angels.....Its a very hard time for me - I found out last night that they are out of options to treat my cousin Stevens liver cancer - he is just 53 - it started in his colon - we are devestated -- my brothers friend since elem school who also became at firefighter with him is dying - he has lung cancer that has gone to his brain and spine - my brother and my family are again devestated -Please try to tell people to go for their colonoscopy because this would of helped Steven and this young kids cannot smoke - my brothers friend smoke his whole life - then today I find out about Penny - but I need to be strong (not doing so good at the moment) but I want to post what I have from the vet. i will put it in my next post in a few minutes - just seeing if my girl will eat. Again with a heavy heart I thank you. You are the sweet most caring Angels.

Love from me and my girl xoxo

[Cyn719]

Pennys results 2/24/12 Ocean State Veterinary Specialist
Dr. Carrie Lester

Ultra sound report

Liver-large pedunculated hyperechoic mass with anechoic regions extending from caudal aspect of liver into central abdomen, measuring 12 cm in size, rest of liver mottled and coarse
Spleen-normal
Kidneys-Isoechoic cortices versus the spleen
Adrenal Glands- not seen due to patient size/bowel gas-----(what does this mean - I really wanted to know this)
Bladder-Normal
Lymph Nodes-normal
Peritoneum-normal
Pancreas-normal
Stomach-normal
Duodenum-normal
small bowel-normal
Colon-normal
Assessment-large caudal liver mass lesion, neoplasia is suspected. Remainder of hepatic changes consistent with inflammation and fibrosis ---by susan Newell DVM, MS, DACVR

Vets Exam

Vitals - 73 lbs - she was 75lbs 2 weeks ago-- temp 102.6 HR 150 RR pant CRT <2

Bright, alert and responsive, friendly

Integument Adequate hair coat, normal skin turgor
Eyes normal PLR normal menace, no discharge normal fundic OU ears clean
Oral - slab fracture of lateral aspect of R canine - samll amount of pulp cavity exposure at distal aspect of fracture but not further up fracture. painful at distal aspect. Gingival tissue looks healthy, tooth color still normal. not obviously infected at this point.
Cardiovascular - normal heart rate and rhythm adequate intensity pulses- pulses synchronous and symmetrical-no murmurs or arrhythmias
Respiratory - no nasal discharge-lungs clear bilaterally -eupnic
Gastrointestinal NSF
Urogenital - external genitalia normal - bladder normal on papation
Abdomen-mild cranial abdominal organomegaly not pain no obvious masses palpable
Musculosketetal stiff in hind limbs -long ortho hx
Neurologic Cranial nerves normal no neurologic deficits
Peripheral lymph nodes normal
Endocrine WNL

Vet Summary

Unfortunately the abdomial ultrasound showed a mass inside of her liver that is 12 cm is size. As we discussed over the phone, we are most concerned that this mass could be a liver cancer. Other possibilities included a nodular inflammation or infection. We recommended a biopsy of the mass and of the rest of Pennys liver -which also looks a little irregular most consistent with chronic inflammation --at this point you have elected to hod off on the biopsy, but may decide to purseu this in the future. the biopsy would allow us to decide if the mass is cancer for sure, and it would be better to know this sooner so that we could talk over the options for treatment.

I am putting Penny on two liver protectants to help with any inflammation - hopefully she will tolerate them.

Denamarin Dog 35>
Ursodiol 300 mg

Sorry it was so much-wanted you to know all of it -- your honest opinion sure will help - and can you comment on the meds - I have no idea what to expect with these med.

Penny is scheduled to have tooth surgery on Tuesday at Tufts in Grafton MA with Dr. Jean Joo

Thank you

Love and hugs xoxo

[StarDeb55]

Adrenal Glands- not seen due to patient size/bowel gas-----(what does this mean - I really wanted to know this)

All this means is that her bowel was so distended by gas that the adrenals were masked by the bowel, & they couldn't see them on the US.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Deb

When Dave got her he took he took right out and she had a large bowel movement - weird question - if she went to the bathroom first would this of helped???

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-

I am really sorry for the results you received. If I were in your shoes, I'd have that tooth taken care of and then work to enjoy every second you have. It was a liver biopsy that they wanted us to do on Palmer and I said-absolutely not. I am not going to have this dog cut up....whether it was or was not cancer....I would try my best to keep him comfortable. There just were too many indications for us to continue pursuing more medical procedures. As a matter of fact, they had Palmer for 5 out of the last 7 days of his life.....on hydration therapy. That is my one regret.... that I did not spend that time with her at home, and that is only with hindsight. If I had it to do over again, with the same information at the same times, I would still do exactly what we did.

Even if you don't want to post, my suggestion would be to come to the site and read additions to your thread. I was astounded at all the support I received when Palmer crossed over. These folks practically held me up until I could stand on my own again.

You don't need to do anything today. It's a Friday so you have an entire weekend for you and Penny. Smother her with love, kisses and belly rubs. Get your husband to do the same for you!! You have all the information you need. You will feel it when it is "right." She is here now. Touch her, hug her, talk to her. You still have time.

Take care, sweetie.

Susan

[Altira]

Cindy, about all I can tell you is how it was with Mira. When they told me about the most likely liver cancer I agreed to the biopsy. I also asked them to do a chest X-ray. It cost a fortune. They found a mass the size of my fist in her lung. The same composition as the liver. They told me that the liver can still function with surgery to remove tumors. But Mira's was too big. Did they mention that? I mean do they think that's possible? Could she live thru it? I'd say forget the biopsy and just get it out of there. It probably is and if not will be. You have the tooth to worry about too. The most important thing IMO is making her comfotable. Find out what all this is going to cost. I could have done any for Mira and would have. But there was nothing reasonable to do. Chemo doesn't work for dogs. You need to be reasonable. At the very least the tooth has to come out. They said they would do it. I'd start there. Take that pain away. And see how she is then. They will tell you what's best. Tell then to keep you cost down. Don't put penny thru anymore then you have to. Or yourself.

I'm so sorry Cindy. I'm facing big problems with Kira and half expect to be right beside you soon. Kira is old. She's been thru too much already. I've already spent at least $20,000 on her recently to keep her here. I've run into the wall of reason. How much longer would she be here anyway? I'm tired of fighting the inevatable. She's lived a reasonable life time. So Cindy maybe our doggies go down together. Who knows. And well have each other. But I'm here with you now. Get the tooth fixed.

[Bailey's Mom]

PS- I am so very sorry about the cancer affecting your cousin and friend. It's a tough, rough thing to deal with. I've walked down that path with 3 people and have tried to support on some others. Cancer is a nasty, nasty disease. 53 is so young. What a shame.
s

[jmac]

Cindy,

I just want to echo what Susan said. Take care of yourself, your family, and Penny right now. Don't worry about the forum, but please come back to read your thread to know that we are all here with you right now supporting you. As she said, Penny is here now. Enjoy the time you have with her and spoil her rotten. You will know when it is her time, and you will know it's the right thing to do to help Penny. We will be here with you to offer whatever support you need.

Julie & Hannah

[StarDeb55]

Probably.

Debbie

[Altira]

Can't stop thinking about you. (sob)

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Cindy,

I am so sorry that the u/s did not show better results. This article from dogaware has a lot of info about liver disease: http://dogaware.com/health/liver.html

I used to give my boy, Harley, denamarin. Denamarin has to be given on a empty stomach and 1 hour before any meal.

I have read many articles about using Ursodiol in a dog with liver disease but it should be used with caution in a dog that has pancreatitis.

Please know you and sweet Penny are in my thoughts and prayers.

Sending huge hugs and love,
Lori

[Cyn719]

Again thank you to all you sweet Angels. Your support, concern and words are what holds me up and keeps me going.

Has anyone dealt with a mass in the liver? Can anyone give anymore input on the results? I did talk to the IMS but I went blank when she said very large mass...tumor...most likely cancer. I will call her Monday to explain it in detail and explain the other things that were mentioned such as the kidneys too.

She is resting .... Still sleeping.....got up to eat and go out....stressful day for her snd me. Plus I can't believe I didn't get the adrenal glands checked.....I was so curious about that....why they didn't take her out before the test is beyond me but I will mention that on Monday also.

Hugs xoxoxo

[frijole]

Cindy, I'm just now reading what you've been going through and I am so very sorry. I don't have any experience with liver masses. All I can offer is a shoulder and a hug. Hang in there and enjoy the time you have with Penny. I'll include you in my prayers. Take care. Kim

[Altira]

MIRA- BEGHTOL
October 2010

ALK - 1282 (10-150) high
ALT- 110 (5-107) high
AST - 98 (5-55) high
CK- 469 (10-200) high

AMYLASE - 444 (450-1240) low

TV02 - 16 (17-24) low
CHLORIDE - 119 (105/115) high
POTASSIUM - 5.8 (4.0-5.6) high

NA/K RATIO - 26 (27-40) low

ABS NEUTROPHIL - 12551 (3000-11500) high

This is the findings from the Ultrasound

LIVER: two large confluent hepatic masses (mixed echogenicity no cavitations but swirled appearance with hyperechoic foci (not obviously mineralized) within L liver 12.3 x 8.1cm (together) third mass (appearance identical) within caudate lobe 3.2cm diameter not obstructing GB/billiary tract. Remainder hepatic parenchyma WNL.

[Skye]

I sent you an email but i will copy and paste it here as well. Love you sweetheart. send you hugs, love, and know i am here.
do you have previous U/S to compare to this recent one.
i was under impression Liver cancers are slow growing....yes often not dianosed till later....but you have had extensive testing and surgeries that would have tipped this off. And with her tooth i would think that would cause bacteria and infection in other areas as well. so its a mass of 12
okay
so i had a mass of 7 and you have had masses as well
so masses is unknown.
so unknown can freak us out worse than knowing.
how is a biospy done on the liver? is this extensive? or can it be excreeted by syringe? just wondering how possible this is while her tooth is being fixed.
kidney and livers of course are not like that of 2year old pup, but this does not mean doom either.
remember.....you dont know......each day to each one of us is a gift....and that moment is promised...not the next.....living and loving in this moment is what is important and valued. You love Penny so dearly and sweetly and she you. do not allow worry to take over and rob you of your moment....that is yours and Pennys.....your gift is this moment now.....easier said than done i realize...so many of us realize....you know the angels here are fluttering their little wings it would make a humming bird look slow motion. so embrace now....and feel the gift of the angels wings carrying you.

[Altira]

This was Mira's biospy sight. It was a syringe like thing but more like a thin tube than a needle.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=264&pictureid=3580

[Spiceysmum]

Cindy,
I am so sorry to hear about what is happening with Penny and members of your family. You are in my thoughts.

Linda

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

((hugs))) Judi

[Cyn719]

Thank you Angels...I saw all your posts.....so sweet.....it feels good knowing you are all around me. :)

Penny ate good yesterday
Very very tired
Restless last night
Sleeping now
Funny she always wants to be outside ... Now she wants to be in
Maybe yesterday just stressed her out

Waiting for ocean state vets to call...I feel the need to let them know they did not give me instructions on how to give her the meds....I would of given them with food:eek: thanks to you Angels now I know....and I have an issue that they couldn't see the adrenal gland...something that needed to be checked.....and if they could of taken her out the the bathroom they probably could of seen them!? Really $350 and you couldn't have a tech take her out! Just have to clear it up so I will feel better:) now it's wait all day for her to call me back.

Hugs xoxo

[addy]

Sending love and hugs to you and dear Penny.

I understand why you feel the way you do about the adrenal glands and I don't blame you.

I have no insight regarding liver masses, I'm sorry I am no help there.
But I am very good at giving hugs.


((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))

love,
addy

[Altira]

Ursodion and denamarin are both for the liver. *It sounds like good stuff! Mira was never offered this. It sounds like a good sign to me! They never tried to fix Mira's liver. *I'm hopeful Cindy!!! It's worth a smile. *:-)

But is she taking nothing for tooth pain. The other two drugs is she taking those?

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Just checking in to see if you happened to talk to anyone today. I don't know about Ursodiol, but I read about it a little online. It says to give exactly as your veterinarian directs, and that if a dog takes certain antacids, it may not be as effective so you should avoid them (you can look it up to see which ones). I know for a fact that Denamarin needs to be given an hour before they eat, preferably in the morning because it works best after a long fast.

Thinking of you and Penny a lot!

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks Julie...yes thanks to you telling me about it yesterday I knew it had to be an hour before meal.....no thanks to vet an the other one I did look up and it said to take with food...again no thanks to vet!. Really you would think they would tell you this! Nope just collect the $300 and send you on your way! I called today...IMS was in ..... No return call! She's not back until Wednesday. And I also would of thought they would of had me change her diet. All they want to do is discuss procedures and tests. Sorry to go on but they do get to me. She slept all day....but did eat twice today and now she's up.

Thanks again for the info...very much appreciate!:)

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

November 5, 2010... the day I found out Mira had cancer. Cost me $1,636.

US, chest X-rays(huge mass there too), liver biopsy, lung biopsy, and tramadol

Blood work was done by GV five days earlier. (he was testing her for Cushings! Wrong! That's how I ended up here.)

[marie adams]

(((((hugs))))

[addy]

Sending hugs and love for you and Penny.

love you
addy

[Cyn719]

Hi

just wanted to read my posts....thank you for the love, hugs, prayers and thoughts....it means so much....and puts a smile on my face:) My little girl was so tired the last couple of days....just slept...but has been eating...I give her smaller meals now...easier to digest....just need to find what is a better diet for her...its hard to make a drastic change since she is use to what she likes...she can be a little fussy.....Mike took her for a tiny walk...she was so happy when he was shaking the choker collar saying lets go for a walk...she jumped right up when she heard him.....shes tired now.....am so nervous about Tuesdays surgery...and these new pills.....HUGE and so hard to get down her throat......not going to be possible after surgery....I am going to get the chewable but again I havent found one chewable pill she likes yet....its hard to know shes sitting here with such a large mass in her liver.....especially since the vet is saying its appearing to be cancer....trying to look into the kind a tumor they say it is but getting confused...hope she will explain it again...but thats not till Wed!! Again thanks Angels... :)

Love and hugs to all of you xoxo

[Altira]

Cindy, I know, trying to make sence of it all can make you feel crazy. You want to understand. I do that too. Merck manuals yikes. The Small Animal Veterinary Nerdbook is easier to understand. I spend hours searching for hope and ending up more confused then ever. Cindy I really suggest that you record your conversations with the vets. I can never keep up with what they are saying either. It's the most important piece of information you can have to help you follow along. For poeple like you and me we really need this.

You are giving her the new meds right? Now is not the time to second guess. This is serious. These meds might slow things down at least Give it a go. Watch her. If you see bad effects then stop and call the vet. Otherwise just have faith. Let's us know. We are right here with you!

[frijole]

Cindy, I was given those liver pills to give to Annie at one point and they are huge vitamins really... ;) I ended up using a knife and shaving them and putting it into the food - way easier than trying to get her to eat that huge pill. Hope this helps. I send you love and prayers as you sort your way thru the dental procedure and other procedures. We are all here for you. Much love and strength. Kim

[Casey's Mom]

Cindy, sorry that I haven't been here lately. Just wanted you to know I am praying for you and Penny. Love and many hugs coming to you from me . . .

[Altira]

Cindy, I was given those liver pills to give to Annie at one point and they are huge vitamins really... ;) I ended up using a knife and shaving them and putting it into the food - way easier than trying to get her to eat that huge pill. Hope this helps. I send you love and prayers as you sort your way thru the dental procedure and other procedures. We are all here for you. Much love and strength. Kim

Oh Cool! See, maybe another good sign, it's not some big deadly pill trying to combat a big horrible thing. Gee not knowing is killing me too. Ok so it's pull tooth on Tuesday and talk to vet on Wednesday. I get confused easy too.

Have you thought about the biopsy? Could they do it when they do the tooth? It just takes a minute I think.... Was just a thought.

Poor Cindy, I pester her too much...

[Squirt's Mom]

Just popping in to let you know you and Penny are in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-

Just stopping by to say I'm thinking of you and Penny. Hope you got the pills in this morning and that you can get some chewable ones soon...Hannah wasn't too sure about it at first, but she still ate it. Now she thinks it's a treat. I break it into little pieces. I do know it's important not to give the Denamarin with food (needs to be an hour before) or it won't work. I had to use a dab of butter or peanut butter before, but she doesn't need much to entice her. My vet said if I had to, a little bit of canned dog food on it would be okay.

It really is just a supplement. Nothing to worry about at all. It's the one thing I give her that I can be totally carefree about. I don't have to worry about it with other meds either.

Glad Penny finally has her appointment tomorrow!

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

You guys are the best!:) thanks for thinking about us....i still am trying to consume this...especially how tired she has been..every sincee she got back from the vet the other day she is not right...tired..just lays there...she had alittle more life prior to that day..but she is eating......But just wanted you all to know Penny's surgery is now THURSDAY. I had to change it becaus my dad has an issue and my mom needs me to help her. Dad has a very swollen red very painful ankle...they said a few times it was gout, but now dr is saying not sure....he's a diabetic also. He needs to go for test tomorrow. It may work out better only because David would come with me tomorrow but then would be working the next 3 days ...day and nite...and if we do it thurs he will be home thurs they sun. I will feel better he will be here to help with the meds and pain killers. So hard to open her mouth with stitches. I hate making her wait....but I can't do both. Thursday is set in stone. Maybe this will make her feel better.

Many of you have your hands full and you still are there checking on us :) You all are so sweet and amazing! Your thoughts and prayers mean so so much to me.

Love and hugs to all of you xoxo

[addy]

Me, too, Cindy, stopping by to see how you and Penny are doing.

How are you holding up? I don't have any suggestions about the pills because Zoe will eat a pill with no food on it, she is such a foodaholic:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I suppose you cannot put peanut buter on it or wrap it in meat and pretdnd to eat some of it first?

love you bunches and I am sending hugs from me and the whole gang.

love,
addy, zoe and koko

[mypuppy]

Oh Cindy,

We would never abandon you and your sweet girl. We will be right here praying and waiting for more updates (positive ones) on your girl. Hang in there with it all.

We do love you and your girl dearly.

xo Jeanette

[Cyn719]

Now I am really going crazy -- guess I just wanted to believe she had a tumor and slight chance it was not cancer. GP called explained it -- said radiologist does suspect cancer - not saying she is wrong but she said they have a very very stong feeling it is cancer. She said she would not put her through the biopsy if we are not going to do surgery and the tumor is big and the surgery is major surgery - and it may not even be able to come out - she also said that she would POSTPONE THE SURGERY TO REMOVE THE CANINE TOOTH for a few weeks to see what goes on with the tumor - basically she meant why do the surgery if Penny is going to get worse quickly cause it seems like a fast growning tumor - she feels its dangerous to do the surgery - I am so confused - scared - what do I do - I called the Dentist to talk to her - waiting - thats all I do - but if a little of the pulp is exposed then yes shes in pain - I want to ask vet if the exposed area can be bonded just to cover it so its not sensitve till we know whats going on - I am going on and on but I am confuesed - crying - scared - my girl what biting at my slipper and talking to me cause she wanted a treat - she was being so silly - its 3 days of being tired and a day or two of being happy - I cant figure how much pain shes in and if its from the tooth - the mass - her arthritis - ?? Ok I am going to stop venting and try to breath - be back when vet calls -

Hugs xoxo

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I so hope the dentist can come up with a temporary solution. Otherwise I understand why you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place. From the perspective of my "head," I get it as to why your vet is saying it may not make sense to proceed with the extraction right now if Penny's got such a bigger issue going on :( :(. But my "heart" is right there with you as far as hoping she can get some relief from that tooth if it is still hurting :(.

I'll be praying that the dentist will have something hopeful to tell you, one way or the other. Either she can do something simple or maybe the nerve is gonna go ahead and shrivel away so that Penny won't feel it anymore. I would be a wreck, too, if I were you. I am just so sorry that you've got so much you're having to shoulder right now. Please tell us what you find out and you can vent here anytime. ANYTIME!!

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Honey, you vent anytime. We are always here for you no matter what.

One question you might ask the IMS is what she would do in your shoes if Penny were hers. If she would take the same stance, then you know this is what is right even tho it may not feel that way. Of course, be sure you are prepared for any answer she may offer.

And, for heaven's sake, give her that treat! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-

I'm confused.....and that's not hard to do to me lately.:o
Which surgery is going to happen and when?

My son had a ......I forgot what they called........oh-a mass about the size of a deck of cards. This was a couple of years ago. It came out of the blue the middle of one night. Bob & I got dressed, closed up the house and went to be with Ryan through the testing and whatever happened. I think I stayed 3 days and Bob stayed 4...not sure. Eventually it became clear they were not going to do anything soon. Tests needed to be run. That's when Bob & I returned home.

This went on for WEEKS and I even went to the surgeon w/Ryan for an appointment. The doc knew I was upset :eek: and so he spent time talking to me-with Ryan there.....(after all his IS 31!) I could not understand why they were not taking a biopsy. I figured this "mass" was growing by leaps and bounds. Just look at all the weeks we were losing when he could start some kind of treatment....if necessary.:confused:

The doctor explained that taking a biopsy was a big deal. He was sure I did not want my gorgeous baby opened up unnecessarily. It would be an exploratory surgery. We had to "give it time." And so we waited. Occasional tests were run.

Long story short (too late!) - it turned out to be an inflamed gall bladder and over the time we were waiting it became measurably smaller. They took the gall bladder out....do you know how funny Ryan looked to me with one of the surgery caps on?:D Plus, he's never had anything done, so he had gotten into his gown and left his underpants on. Silly fella!!:);) Since the gall bladder was removed, he has been fine.

While your news does seem to be very bad, maybe there is just a little crack there for hope. Palmer had an enlarged liver when he was going through his crisis and a biopsy was out of the question for us. He had been too ill and there were too many things going on to impose more on him.

I always check in on you and am always hoping to see good news. I am so sorry for all of this "stuff." I am sure you are at your wit's end.

<<<<<<<BIG HUG>>>>>>>

Susan

[Cyn719]

Susan

Surgery of tooth may be postponed

Xoxo

[Cyn719]

Someone told me to go online to ask a question and I did - response was not good as I suspected -

THIS WAS FROM AN ON LINE VET WHO ANSWERS QUESTIONS FOR A SMALL FEE...WORTH IT

Dr. Marie replies:


Oh dear. It sounds like Penny (and you) have been through a lot!

Those liver enzymes have me very concerned as most of them are quite high. The ultrasound results have me worried as well. I'll explain some of the "medical speak" for you.

Regarding the liver they are seeing a large 12cm area that is much more dense than the rest of the liver. This almost always means cancer, unfortunately. The mottling on the rest of liver may mean that there are other smaller cancerous areas as well. Or, it can mean that there is inflammation in the liver, but then the question is why.
You're right in mentioning that the medicines she is on are expensive. As well, there is a concern because Rimadyl is processed through the liver. So, if the liver is struggling (i.e. because of cancer) this can make things worse. But, as you mentioned, without the Rimadyl, she is in pain.

It's really hard to advise you on the canine tooth, especially considering that you have two different opinions from two different vets. If a canine tooth is fractured, it's often hard to no whether or not the tooth is painful to the dog. Dogs aren't wimpy like people. They really don't do anything to show us pain. With that being said, if the vet feels the tooth is painful at the end, then there likely is some discomfort there.

Removing a fractured canine tooth is a major surgery. It usually takes a good amount of time and as you are likely aware, can be expensive.

It is really hard to advise you on what to do here! Let me lay out the pros and cons of removing the tooth and hopefully that will help with your decision.

Pros:
•She won't have dental pain during the time she has left with us.

Cons:
•Expensive

•The anesthetic could be a risk. Most drugs have to be processed through the liver and we know that the liver is diseased.

•We don't know how much time she has left. It is possible that we do the surgery, spend the money and remove the tooth all very successfully, and she could possibly succumb to liver cancer a week later.



Now, keep in mind that it is hard for me to advise without being able to examine Penny. But, if one of the vets is saying that it may be ok to leave the tooth then I would tend to agree that this would be the better decision.

If there is liver cancer (which it really sounds like there is), there is a chance that we do not have much time left with Penny.

I hope that helps with your decision. Let me know if you have more questions.

I don't think the liver cancer is because of either the Rimadyl or the cushing's. While both Rimadyl and cushing's can cause an increase in liver enzymes, neither of them would cause a mass in the liver. Usually we don't know the cause of liver cancer. It's just one of those things that just happens.

Dr. Marie replied:

My experience with liver cancer is that animals do extremely well (and owners have a hard time believing the diagnosis). And then, one day they eat a little less than normal and are a little quiet. And then within the next few days things progress quickly. At this point it becomes obvious that the time for euthanasia has arrived.

Most of the time I find that most pet owners know quite easily when the time has come.

The problem is that no one can tell you how much time to expect. From what you have told me I think 6 months would be very optimistic.

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I know this is hard news to hear. But I do thank Dr. Marie for giving you her best opinion about things.


Now, keep in mind that it is hard for me to advise without being able to examine Penny. But, if one of the vets is saying that it may be ok to leave the tooth then I would tend to agree that this would be the better decision.

I'm starting to wonder whether this wouldn't be the better decision, too, at least for the time being. You know Penny so well, Cindy. It sounds as though she is not in horrible pain or she would not be begging for a treat or having good time periods. It seems as though the tooth pain would be pretty constant, and she wouldn't want to play with the sllpper. So maybe you will want to go ahead and put the tooth surgery on the back burner for at least a little while longer, until you can get a better handle on how Penny is handling the liver issues...

But you know her the best of anyone, and are the best judge of things. I know this must be so hard, honey. I wish there was some way we could be more help to you.

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Cindy, I don't know if this will help you or not, but I'm going to tell you what happened to Harley. We were at the eye vet about 10 days before he crossed the bridge for a recheck. During her physical exam, she asks me if I had seen a large mass on his upper jaw. I freaked & said absolutely not. She showed me the mass, & that's when I really got upset. Prior to this appointment, Harley had been doing pretty well, although I had noticed some kind of vague strange symptoms over the past month. Several times he woke me up during the night with what I would describe as "wheezing" like breathing. I would pet him a little, & he would go back to sleep. I, also, noticed that he seemed to be drinking a lot of water each time he went to a water dish. This is a little 13 lb. Shih Tzu who would stand at the dish & drink like he'd been in Death Valley for a week with no water. I really didn't think a lot about this, & attributed the water increase to his cortisol starting to climb. I was even considering making a change in his lysodren dose.

Anyway, the next morning when I woke up there was "blood spray" all over the bed where Harley sleeps. I seriously figured we were simply dealing with a horrible dental abscess since he was overdue for a dental. I rushed him into the vet that afternoon. She did as thorough a physical exam as she could. Harley would not let her get a real good look in his mouth, but she saw enough to say that she didn't feel this was an abscess, as all she saw was blood in his mouth with no pus. She drew labs, took x-rays of his chest & belly. She called me in to look at the x-rays & there were spots found in both lungs. She said that she needed to send the films to a radiologist for confirmation, but she was pretty certain that the mass on his jaw was malignant, & it had already spread to his lungs. This is exactly what the radiologist said. He was 15 1/2, had been through the ringer the past 2 years, & after I took him to his regular vet, ( the first vet was his vet's partner), both of us agreed that the kindest thing would be to help Harley cross the bridge. It was truly a crushing blow for me as Harley was really my Mom's dog when we first got him, & he was the last thing on earth that I had that had a connection to my Mom. I realized that all of those vague symptoms I had been noticing for the past month were the first indication that we had a serious problem on our hands. In fact, the trip to the eye vet was for a recheck for a bad left eye infection from 6 weeks previously. The regular vet told me when I rushed Harley in that the eye infection was probably the first warning sign that there was a very bad problem. Please remember that all of our babies are very good at masking/hiding when they feel bad or are sick. If they didn't, & were in the wild, they would end up as someone's lunch. It's their job to keep going, even when they feel bad. This is what I still tell myself to this day concerning Harley as even the regular vet said that if the jaw mass had been found earlier, & we tried to remove it, he would have to have removed over half of Harley's jaw. I miss him, but have no regrets about my decision.

Now, back to Penny, your question about what in the report means cancer, neoplasia is another term used to describe cancer. From the US , it does appear that this may have spread to other areas of the liver. Were any chest x-rays or other x-rays to see if the mass has metastasized to Penny's lungs or any other areas of her body?

Debbie

[Altira]

Well for starters Cindy.... If Marianne trusts these online vets then I would too. Remember when it was my Mira we did not do chemo. We put her on prednisone which instantly made her feel well enough to walk again. We took long slow walks everyday. We went anywhere she wanted to go. It was her favorite thing to do. It was really hard to let her go because she didn't seem that bad. She certainly didn't look it. She was only 7. But repeated US's told a differant story. The liver got bad quickly. But I'd do it that way again in a heart bet. I wouldn't have given up all those bitter sweet walks with her for anything. Pred was like a miracle. My guess is it would take the tooth pain away too. The pain Cindy, pred will stop the pain. It's also hard on the liver. But what would you rather? Have her pain free for a month or suffering for two. Pred is not expensive. So maybe you skip the tooth pull and spend the money on US's so you know the livers progression. Miras last one told me it had started to bleed and was ready to rupture. And the vets told me it was time. I took her home for one more day. I cooked a turkey and shared it with her and let her go the next day. I only tell you this because you asked me to. And I'd follow Mariannes lead in a heartbeat too. Your right here in my pocket Cindy... anytime!!! 12 years is reasonable lifetime for a big dog don't you think? I'm so sorry.

[Cyn719]

No Deb just the u/s. surprised they didn't do a chest X-ray. The on line vet said the rest of the liver could be cancer also...if I read it right.

[StarDeb55]

You read the on-line vet correctly.

Deb

[labblab]

Oh Cindy, I was confused and thought the email reply was from the dentist! Was it instead from somebody else? Regardless, it still sounds like a reasonable assessment of Penny's situation. Have you had the chance to talk directly with the dentist, though? I'm still hoping there might be some kind of temporary "fix" that might help tide Penny over re: her tooth. If nothing else, would you want to take Penny in on Thursday just to let the dentist make an assessment, or is that more than you want to put her through. I would understand either way.

Marianne

[Bailey's Mom]

Wow, Cindy. It just doesn't seem to ever get better. I am so sorry.

In my experience-I've had to do this twice-I kept hoping Peaches would just not wake up one morning. It wasn't to be. With Palmer, he was so very sick and looked totally miserable in his eyes, it was less of a question of do or not do. I remember asking Peaches' vet to tell me what she would do. She replied she could not do that. I kept wanting someone else to make the decision. I went through the questioning phase, the same as you are doing.

For what it's worth, I think Dr. Marie sounds wonderful. Where did you find her? I think she's right on about the tooth. I think she's right on about the diagnosis as well. I also have found that when the time actually came, it was clear to me that the best thing for either dog was to end their suffering. I think all the questioning I went through was not only a desperate try for some kind of "fix" but also the process I had to go through to prepare myself for what was going to happen. I was with both dogs when we had to do this and it was a very "positive" experience. It was peaceful. I was there. Once it happened I just lost it. Palmer's vet was saying to me to "let it go- You've been very, very strong. You don't need to do that now." Bob, Ryan and I were in there sobbing. She gave us all the time we needed and when she came back in, SHE was crying! In both cases, I tried to make the doggies calm and secure. With Peaches, I held her while she was on the exam table. With Palmer, I had him in my lap, cradling him. Also, in both cases, after it was over, I then removed their collars to keep.

Be with Penny as much as you can. She has had a long life for a large dog. It's never long enough for us. Once you make a decision to postpone or not the tooth surgery, you will then be able to make your decision for further treatment. I think Dr. Marie was wonderful in how she laid out the pro's and the con's. Sometimes it is necessary for us to use our logic capabilities and put our hearts aside just for a few moments.

I too wish I could be there to help you or just to sit with you and Penny. We are all with you in thought and prayer. Please give yourself and Penny a BIG hug from Bailey and me.

-Susan

[Cyn719]

Thank you sweet Angels

Yes it's very difficult

I think I will call to cancel the tooth surgery

I did call to speak to the dentist about it....surprise....she didn't call back

Susan...the vet was online.....www.askvetquestion.com
You pay $8 or $15 to ask a question....$15 is if she answers with 15 mins. Best Money I spent....she was quick and to the point and put it nicely.....

Love and hugs to each and every Angel xoxo

[Altira]

Thank you so much for visiting and posting on Mira's thread. That was so sweet of you and at a time like this. I was so touched. You give so much. As another birthday is lost.

I'm asumming you gave the online vet the same most recent test results you posted here. There is some elimate to the diagnoses in viewing the dog too which they didn't see but I'm sure your conclusion is correct. I stand behind you completely your choice to forgo the tooth surgery. It's a very reasonable and brave choice.

As you know my heart brakes for you. Death is always worse for those left behind. For those who have to live on. And two at once, I can't imagine. I hope you will stay with us and let us stand beside you and hold your hand. And cry with you. For however long she has.

[Cyn719]

So thankful for all of you.....isn't it funny how the people we have never met face to face are the ones that are able to gets us through such a crisis?? Yes...we were all brought together for a reason. We have a special bond ....... Like the brotherhood my husband has at the fire department. This is so hard....but I can't imagine how much harder it would be without all of you!!

Love and hugs to all xoxoxoxo

[Altira]

Gee I'm painfully shy. I have no face to face friends. I rarely leave the house. Going to the vets terrifies me. The Internet has opened up the whole world for me. And I'm so greatful there are poeple out there who can be my freind this way. And the iPhone I can take my friends anywhere. And to be able to comfort a friend my gosh. And as we all know poeple who care about there pets (dogs) the way we do, are very few. Lol ... We are a breed all of our own aren't we? Here we can be for here, for each other. Remarkable.

[Skye]

hello beautiful girls cindy and penny,
if the doctor gives you okay to cut up pills.....wonder if you could ground them up.....then mush into her food or water or whatever they having you give her to drink.
if your not allowed to crush them up......make her yawn.....and pop it in. I have had to do that.
sometimes....sometimes things are what they appear........BUT sometimes they are not.............is it worth giving this minute to what is not known? you will never get that minute back.....give it to what you know......your love for penny. hmmmm wind is picking up....oh nope, its all the angels that coming from all over to hold you both, watch over you both, cradle you both and keep your wine glass topped off.
love and hugs..................tummy pats and toe rub to penny.

[Casey's Mom]

Cindy, it seems as though you have been given some excellent advice from the online vet. Good for you for seeking out that alternative advice and going above and beyond for Penny.

With Casey I kept thinking that in the natural world she would never have survived - I kept her going and made her comfortable.

I had taken her to the vets on Wednesday after her fall and I was prepared then to let her go and I asked him if it was her time. He said he couldn't tell me - legally or ethically. My dog sitters go to the same vet and were there a few days after Casey passed. They mentioned Casey to the vet and he said that I had made the right decision, I had done everything possible to help her but her back was not going to get better. This was not from the fall but from the spinal compression caused by old age. That made me feel so much better that I did make the right decision but I just want you to know the vets will not tell you what to do because the can't. Also Casey did not show signs of pain but as others have mentioned they don't show it - brave little souls.

Cherish your time with Penny - we are all here for you dear.

Love and many hugs,

[SasAndYunah]

Dear Cindy,

I have been following Penny's thread constantly eventhough I haven't responded. I am very sorry that you are where you are with Penny and I understand how difficult it is, to be where you are. What has always helped me tremendously (as well for the time after my dog's death, which I knew was coming) was making sure there was nothing left to do to make them better. Once I was positive that their life was slowly going to their end, and there was no surgical or medical possibility to reverse their condition, I sat down and started to think what I wanted that last periond to be like, for my dogs. For example with Yunah, I knew there was nothing that could be done for her. I knew that every move could cause her to get paralysed and I could have opted to restrain her in order to keep her with me as long as possible. But for me, that was no option, I knew my Yunah, I knew what she loved in her life and what made her life fun, for her... So I decided to let her do what so loved doing, even if that would mean loosing her sooner. But that way her final time would have been ejoyable for her instead of being restrained in her actions and fun...that was not what Yunah was about, that was not how her life should be. One day, I had a visit from friends and their dogs and Yunah had so much fun, playing with the dogs, running around....even when her interactions were short. She did what she loved to do and then she laid on my lap since it made her tired and painfull... That same evening, after having fun, she got worse a lot and soon after I had to let her go. Did the playdate, the activities that day, make her back worse? I have no way of knowing that for certain...but chances are it did. Do I regret it? Not for a moment, she was so happy and had so much fun that day :) She was being Yunah... Did I loose her sooner because I let her play? I have no way of knowing that for certain but chances are, I did. Do I regret it? No, not for a minute have I regretted letting her have that day with fun and joy :)

I would have lost her anyway, that day, 2 months later... it was bound to happen. My grief would not have been different...no matter on what day you loose your dog, it's never the right day or the right time. But from Yunah's perspective (at least I think it would have been Yunah's perspective) the fact she had fun as much as possbile during her final days outweighed having some extra time but not really a "Yunah worthy" life.

God knows how tremendously I have struggled after Yunah's death...but not one of those struggles was about, "did I make the right choice...", not once did I think "if only I hadn't let her play that day she still might be here with me..." In fact, it fills me with joy and smiles when I think back of that day :) And I personally prefere that over having a difficult last time here especially when you know it's not going to be better...

These decissions and thoughts and considerations are all very personal and so no one can advise you on what to do. It's between you and Penny and everything you decide will be a good decission since it will be one with Penny's best interest at heart...because you love her so much :)

My love and hugs to both you and Penny,

Saskia :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

The message from Dr. Maria was informative, and kind, if hard to take. :(

In your shoes, I would cancel the dental, too, unless some sort of bonding could work to help alleviate some pain. But to put her through a difficult surgery that would require her liver to further struggle to process the chemicals needed would be asking too much IMHO. I wonder if something like Ora-gel would help? Not even sure it is ok for dogs but it would be worth asking about. My dad, a dentist, used to use some sort of liquid that he applied with a Q-tip that deadened the nerve endings. All I can remember is the taste and smell of it, not the name. :rolleyes:

If you take nothing else to heart from Dr. Maria's reply, I hope you take this part and hold tight to it -


I don't think the liver cancer is because of either the Rimadyl or the cushing's. While both Rimadyl and cushing's can cause an increase in liver enzymes, neither of them would cause a mass in the liver. Usually we don't know the cause of liver cancer. It's just one of those things that just happens.

She is telling you that this is not your fault, that nothing you did or didn't do caused this mass. You have no blame in this at all, honey, none.

There are no words we can offer to make this any easier for you, honey. I so wish there was; I would be spouting them off hour after hour after hour. But know this in every fiber of your being - you and Penny are NOT alone. When the fears become to great to bear, when your pain is ever present, when you cannot see the sunshine for your tears, we are right beside you, holding you in our arms, filling you with our love. I told you when ya'll first came, that we would walk every step of this journey with you...and we will never leave your side. Do all you can to make every day special for Penny, to make her life dog-worthy, as our sweet Saskia says, and know you are both surrounded by love.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mypuppy]

So, so, so sorry dear Cindy,

We will continue to hold you and your girl in our thoughts.

With much love,

Jeanette and Princess

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-
I just want you to know I am here. I am hoping.
I hope you and Penny are snuggled up some place warm enjoying the peace that is there.
-Susan

[Leena]

Keeping you in prayer..I know how difficult it can be.....Hugs to you!

[Cyn719]

Thank you all. It is very comforting to come to my thread to read all my posts

Short update

Eating well
Drinking well
Poop alittle soft
Added rice to food
Groaning a lot....just wish I knew if it was the tooth or not...vet said she did not seem to be in pain when she examined her tummy... But sometimes I think she's just to scared to react
She came for a ride to do some errans and took a long walk in my parents yard....very tired afterwards
Wanting treats

Ok day

love and hugs to all

Xoxo

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, I'm so sorry I have not been around. I am just now catching up on your thread and reading about the liver cancer. I know this is a huge shock and I can't imagine what you are thinking or feeling. I know how it would affect me and I'm sure you are going through all kinds of emotions. Only you will be able to know when it could be time for Penny and you have done everything you can for your girl. I agree that putting her through the tooth surgery might be more than she can handle and if something can be done to relieve any of her pain I would probably go that route. Please know that even though I haven't been on here much you are always in my thoughts and prayers.. You can call or text me anytime you need.

Love you both,
Melissa

[Altira]

Got to go for a "ride" to do some errans! How cool is that? My dogs love to go. Anywhere. Even crippled Kira ... standing happily right at the door "I'm so happy! You said I could go!" Isn't that what it's all about? Seeing that excitement and knowing that just being with you, near you, makes them that happy?

Pain in the ass getting them in the car and strapped in though. Lol!

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

stopping by with hugs and love for you and Penny.

addy and the kids

[Altira]

Me too!!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

Me three!!!!!!

[Cyn719]

Thank you again Angels.....

Confusion again......IMS called

Said will not know if it's adenocarcinoma, adenoma, or nodule unless we biopsy it.......I said doesn't neoplasia mean cancer...she said no just new growth....tumors are cancer....some are benign some are malignant ..... Can't say....penny may of never has cushings.....was always liver disease......this tumor could of been growing for years......she only has one u/s years ago. Now she's saying tooth appeared painful....we can take it out and yes she may be gone in weeks....if not malignant she could last longer depending on how fast it's growing...today she is growing all day....the weather with her arthritis.....because I cut back on the rimadyl.....her liver...her tooth..... I am very confused.... Now I said well if she has surgery and she has tumor in liver shouldnt she have chest X-ray to make sure lungs are clear? She said yes! Well why wasn't I told this by her before or by the dentist?! So surgery is cancelled....I will do X-ray....from there I do not know:confused: I know no one can give me an answer to this since there are so many what ifs...but your opinions will help.

Hugs xoxo

[addy]

Cindy I am so sorry this is so hard and confusing. Can she speculate?
In her experience, seeing cases similar in the past of masses like Penny has, what are the odds it is cancer? What are the odds it is benign growth? What happens if it is benign growth? How is that treated? What is the expected outcome?
Can a nodule be that large? What are the odds it is a nodule? How is that treated? What is the expected outcome?

I wish you had more information.

I am so, so sorry, sweetie, that you have this happening. I wish I could make it all go away, Cindy.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

She wont give me a straight answer - just answers we cannot tell with a biopsy ---- she is like a robot!!! She said depending on biopsy - if cancer maybe surgery - maybe radiation - if it is benign and growin maybe surgery - nodule she didnt say - regular vet is calling back tonight - I hope - this is nuts - but on line vet made it sound like it was cancer and she didnt even see it --- so ??? see what happens tonight - maybe I will go ahead with the xray to make sure the lungs are ok

love and hugs Addy - Always praying for Zoe:)

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Cindy :)

Okay, opinions... I can tell you what I would do. My line of thought would be as follows: I would want my dog to be comfortable and...I would want to know what is going on and if it can or cannot be treated. To me, that would be crucial info on deciding what my next step would be. (and also, it would spare me the possible feelings of guilt that may occur after my dogs death...and the wondering if there would have been anything else I could have done)

So, I would adress the broken tooth to eliminate any suffering due to that tooth and while under anesthesia I would have a liverbiopsy done. To me, those two things would be crucial....to make sure my dog would suffer as less as possible and to be able to make the right decissions on where to go from here...

That's all I can tell you, that's what I would do.

All my best and hugs,

Saskia :)

[Cyn719]

Thanks Saskia

We are going to start with he chest X-ray to even see if any of this is even possible. Like she said tonight something may or may not be in the lungs. So hopefully tomorrow we will have that answer.

Love and hugs to you xoxoxo

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Cindy,

Most definitely a chest X-ray should be done because one of the most common sites of cancer metastasis are the lungs. My Bear had to have a chest X-ray done before any surgical procedure was done.

Regarding the liver biopsy, is it going to be a fine needle aspirate guided by ultrasound or an actual surgical procedure where a doctor surgically removes a piece of the liver for laboratory examination?

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Cyn719]

Thanks Lori...It would be the needle biopsy.

Will start with the chest X-ray cause we don't know what that will show...hopefully nothing. No call from GP yet but she's in till 900 I believe.

Hugs xoxoxo

[Altira]

I think your plan is the best. Do the X-ray, it's the easiest thing for Penny, they shouldn't have to put her out and it will give you an answer the same day. If there is a tumor there too, then whether it's cancer or not, what are you going to do about it...? Nothing. Except see that she is made the most comfortable possible. If it's clear, then do the biopsy and rethink the whole thing.

Personally I'd take her somewhere where they could xray right now. No way would I wait another week or even a day. You need to know now. But that's just me. If Penny seems to be ok, then that might make a differance. The place you are going now should except those xrays. I do that all the time. Or maybe you will like the other place better. They would also except those recent tests. They should!

[Cyn719]

My GP was suppose to call tonite. I left message I had to speak to her tonight.....about doing the X-ray in tha AM.....yup you guessed it no call!! These vets really! I know they are busy but have someone return the call! Jeez!!!! Of well I will call in the AM and hopefully they will take her right in.

Hugs xoxo

[Cyn719]

Thanks Janis....I will. Xoxo

[lauraperla]

Hello Cindy

I am so sorry for all that you and Penny are going through. We lost our beloved German short haired pointer girl to cancer last October. Our original diagnosis was at the start of the year and by the Summer the original tumour in her bladder had grown aggressively and the cancer was spreading.
In August my vet told me that I had to just take things day by day. Saddened by that news I was also terrified that I would not be able to 'call it right', that she would suffer unnecessarily.
I found an 'end of life assessment' online at www.caninecancer.com The Quality of Life scale they have was hugely helpful in giving me something to go through when I was concerned, a way of ordering my very jumbled thoughts. We lost Bracken on October 4th, our day by day had been a final 3 months of love, care and devotion from and to all of us.
Bracken's sister is our Cushings pup and is still with us, albeit feeling like she is in the last chance saloon.
I wish you strength and love through these hard times for you and Penny xxx
Laura x

[Cyn719]

Penny is going now for chest X-rays.

Fingers crossed.

xoxo

[addy]

we are all going along

(((((((hugs)))))))))


love,
addy

[labblab]

I'm squeezing in the car, too!!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

I'm here too!!!

[mypuppy]

Hi my dear friends and friends of Cindy and Penny girl,

I have just received a text message from Cindy. She is at the vet with Penny, and asked if I would please post and let all her cush angels know Penny's x-rays today showed her lungs are clear. :) She is concerned though Penny is losing weight ( a pound a week). They are going to extract Penny's bad tooth as well. Vet said they thought the nerve may have died by now, but it is still causing her discomfort. She is running back home now to get Penny's food and going back to be with her. She will try to post tonight if she can.

On behalf of Cindy and Penny, thanks for all your love as always.

xo tight hugs always, Jeanette

[lulusmom]

Thanks for updating us, Jeanette. I'm glad to hear that the lungs are clear. I predict that Penny will come through the dental procedure just fine. Will be waiting, along with the rest of the family, for an update.

[mypuppy]

Sorry guys...

I stand to be corrected...Penny will not be having her tooth extracted today. Cindy is trying to schedule an appointment for next Tuesday.

xo Jeanette

[Bailey's Mom]

I'm here Cindy! I was on the bumper of the car because there was no room left inside. It took me awhile to disengage myself from the bumper and get the bugs out of my teeth. :rolleyes:

If the tooth isn't coming out now, why are you and Penny staying at the vets?:confused:

GREAT NEWS that the lungs are clear!! Finally, something went your way!!:D

Susan

[Cyn719]

As Jeanette has told you Pennys lungs are clear:) but she has lost more weight.....yes the tooth hurts her as per the vets exam....lost of weight from the tumor or the tooth...only God knows and Penny....but yes she is eating less...enough to make her lose weight....could be...I can get her to eat chicken...baby food and rice......we did come home...we were at the GP....appt for tooth is wednesday at Tufts in Walpole MA

...she was starving When we got home....... Fed her and she ate only aliitle ..... Thats why I do believe it's the tooth like the vet said...now to find a diet that will put just alittle weight on her...give her some nutrition that won't aggregate the liver.

Just gave her boiled chicken...white rice and alittle baby food for flavor.....she ate it....I will give her some more later.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, kind words and for being with us. I was freezing today but then I realized it was the breeze from the wings of all my Cush Angels hovering over me:)

Thanks Jeanette for all your love and concern and for posting for me:)

Love and hugs to all xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

[Altira]

FANTASTIC!!!! What a relief!

Are humans allowed to do the dog crazies?

[jmac]

Out of town and away from computer, but glad her lungs are clear. Thinking of you both.
Julie

[Harley PoMMom]

I, too, am so happy that Penny's lungs were clear!

There is a high-calorie supplement, called Nutri-Cal, that can be given to dogs that are not eating properly, here's a link: http://www.1800petmeds.com/Nutri+Cal-prod1340.html

When Harley got really picky with this food one of the things I tried was microwaving his food for a few seconds. The warmth will set off the aroma of the food and maybe entice Penny to eat.

[Cyn719]

Penny had her second meal since she's been home ....not huge but good size..canned food.....rice....boiled chicken and heaping tablespoon of baby food....she just wants to be alone. But she ate so that's good. But how much is enough and will this even put weight on her?? I read somewhere there is a canned food that will help put weight on Hills?? But it's high in fat and don't think that's good for her liver. Tried to ask IMS today but she or the tech didn't call back.

Hugs xoxo

[frijole]

Penny had her second meal since she's been home ....not huge but good size..canned food.....rice....boiled chicken and heaping tablespoon of baby food....she just wants to be alone. But she ate so that's good. But how much is enough and will this even put weight on her?? I read somewhere there is a canned food that will help put weight on Hills?? But it's high in fat and don't think that's good for her liver. Tried to ask IMS today but she or the tech didn't call back.

Hugs xoxo

pm me your email address and I will send you the Satin Ball recipe.... it will help her gain weight.

[StarDeb55]

I second the NutriCal. My Harley was an extremely picky eater. i always kept a tube of it available, so when he quite eating, I could usually get him to eat the Nutrical. It's a thick paste that you can even squeeze over their regular food. You can give it several times a day to help boost their caloric intake.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Lori Kim Deb

Ok will look tomorrow for the NutriCal

Kim I will pm you

Thanks:)

Xo

[Skye]

please be careful of those processed foods..........i still curse Hills U/D (i think it was) it looked like lard, the ingredients were horrid, even when i fed royal canin perscription food.....the ingredients were not healthy...first one BY Products.
sounds great what your doing with the foods you have and i bet too it is the tooth, your such a good mom........and i bet the nutrical stuff is great.

[Casey's Mom]

Good news about her lungs being clear. Yeah Penny!! Now just to get her to eat and I see you have had lots of good advice. I may need that satin ball recipe. . . Keeping you both in my prayers.

Love and hugs,

[Cyn719]

Thanks Stormee and Ellen

Stormee I will stay clear of those foods for sure!

Ellen

If you need the recipe forwarded let me know

Hugs xoxo

[Cyn719]

Question.....penny is really liking the chicken..rice...babyfood...she actually was asking for more tonight.......I am afraid the rice will constipated her since we give that when our pups have diarrhea?? They say rice puts on weight but she doest need another problem:p

[Altira]

I think rice is fine. I think brown rice is better. I don't know about the baby food. I would try to sneek in a little of her normal dog food because of all good for them stuff in there. Canned food if she's used to it. My dogs really like the pure pumpkin. There might be other things that dogs like. Maybe a couple slices of wheat bread? My mom says turkey is better then chicken because they use less chemicals? Maybe low sodium chicken broth? Is she drinking enough water?

This probably doesn't matter for beans... But I never let a sick dog go off by themselfs. Because I want to know exactly what's going on with them. It's sort of funny, both Stromee and I are guilty of dog staring! We have a sick dog and we just stare at them watching for anything. WHAT? WHAT'S WRONG? It's rather obsessive. Lol I can be like the nightly nurse taking vital signs ever hour.

[SasAndYunah]

Hooray for the clear lungs :D And I am glad you're going to go ahead with the tooth procedure :) Any ideas yet if you're going to do a liverbiopsy as well..?

Hugs,

Saskia :)

[frijole]

Cindy, rice is an ingredient in a lot of dog foods so I think you are OK. Obviously baby food isn't the best option but when a dog isn't eating - calories are good and there is nutrition in the food.

If you don't have the ingredients for the recipes I shared by email - take canned dog food and bake it. Sometimes the aroma gets their taste buds working.

I also would put some kibble in foods and mix it up when need be...

You are doing fine. Eating is good. I know it is stressful... and frustrating... just keep trying! Hugs! Kim

[StarDeb55]

Cindy, please be extremely careful, if you decide to use any kind of canned broth. You must make absolutely sure the broth contains no onions, onion powder, nothing onions. Dogs can't tolerate onion in any for & it can cause a life-threatening anemia.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Janis, Saskia, Kim, Jeanette and Deb and all the Angels

Love you Angels!!

Yesterday she ate 4 small meals of her new mixture....

Today she was begging for breakfast which I can't remember the last she did....

Canned dog food
White rice
Boiled chicken no skin..just boiled in plain water
I use the broth from the boiled chicken
Tablespoon of the chicken or turkey baby food
Warm it and she loves it

If I add the kibble ..and I did soften it ...she doesn't eat..maybe she doesn't like the kibble...maybe it hurt her tooth and she remembers? The IMS called this morning....she said continue what you are doing...try to hold off on hamburger or red meats...It's fatty...don't want to upset her liver more before the surgery on Wednesday..said not try anything new at this time just in case it upsets her stomach. So she said feed her as much as she wants till tues night and after
the operation if she isn't gaining weight we will add nutrition then such as the supplement you mentioned and different dog food.

I am just happy to see her eat!:D

Again thank you for ALL the love and support and advice!! It means so so much!! It does lift my spirit to come here and read my posts everyday!:)

Love and hugs from me and Penny!! I know she thanks all of you for helping us through this xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

[Altira]

To Penny...

Good girl, good Penny eat. Makes all the angels most happy. Good girl.

Pat on head. Kiss on snoot!

[lulusmom]

Congratulations, Cindy. Believe me, I understand what it's like to be beside yourself with worry when your baby won't eat. I'm hoping Penny's appetite is here to stay and hoping the tooth extraction goes smoothly.

[Squirt's Mom]

You're doing a great job, Cindy. And I'm quite sure Penny is loving all the special food and attention she is getting! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

Hi Cindy,

Sounds like a good update so far.

You are doing a great job with Penny. Have a wonderful weekend and don't forget to take care of yourself. :)

((((HUGS))))

[addy]

more hugs coming your way (((((((hugs))))))))

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Penny and I thank you for the thoughts - hugs and kisses:)

She is holding a steady pace eating - the only thing we are noticing is that after she eats her tummy gets very hard?? - I told the vet yesterday and she said when she felt it it felt fine. But I did not feed her before she went. Just guessing but would the liver have anything to do with that? Weird --- but nothing on this end is ever normal:p

xoxoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

Maybe the tummy is just full?

Keep up the positive direction.

Bailey had a real appetite today. First time ever. It does make us happy when they do eat.

-Susan

[Skye]

hmmm hard....and bloated like? is it tender when you touch it? i know when shysies pancreas was acting up her tummy was round and hard, and it hurt to have it touched.
is she passing little winders at all? wondering if she has not been eating well, and now eating better, if that isnt building some litte wind tuberlance up. lol
you might ask if you can give otc pepcid and how many mg for her weight.

[Cyn719]

Susan and Stormee

I thought of the Pepcid but with the liver support pills it said be careful of antiacids...I will call the vet tomorrow to check...maybe the rice is giving her a bloated tummy?? Yes...maybe she is just full since she hasn't eaten so good in so long... She's eating 4 small meals a day...building her up to more of the canned food ... Less rice. She's eating .... Hope she gains a few puonds:)

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

It's all about input and output. LOL but seriously it is. My guess is worried mommy might be over feeding her. I probably would do the same thing. I would be just as concerned with the output. Go out with her. Try feeding a little less. Or even three or four real small meals a day. Make a big production out of it. I'd be getting her up and moving around some too. A walk around the block or even in the house. Not the stairs thou. Do you grind up the chicken?? I would be mindful of the hard belly. And not over feed. How about a belly rub? How much does she weigh? And how much do you think she should weigh? Maybe we could see a current picture? How about one laying on her back? Then we can all give her a belly rub. Ok so now I'm being silly. Your doing a great job. Just what she needs right now. ;-)

[Cyn719]

I have been giving her 3 to 4 small meals a day.....she has no problem going to the bathroom......actually her poop is still soft...maybe I over did it on the rice and she's getting bloated......I cut back on he rice last night...but ..we will see how she does today.....she was basically always 85 lbs.......she is now 71 lbs...two weeks ago she was 75 lbs. I guess she really could of been a 77 to 80 lb dog..... I think that's what the vets goals always was...penny just wanted to stay at 85 to 87 always....we always were trying to make her lose weight....now she has the opposite problem...hope the tooth is the reason.....we all know it highly could be all from her tumor.

Hugs xoxo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,

I am so glad to hear Penny is eating and going to the bathroom okay. My parents' collie just had a bout with pancreatitis and they were told to feed him several small meals per day. At one point he was eating 6 times per day and now I believe it is down to 3 or 4. It did really help him. They are gradually adding his own food back into the rice. I think he is on prednisone now too because of both a sore back and because they think the pancreatitis is gone, but that now it is more of a GI problem and the vet wanted to try a short round of a small amount of steroid to help get his BMs regulated-they have been very soft or diarrhea for the past 10 days or so, and my mom said that after a couple of days of pred it was pretty normal today. I don't know that any steroid is an option for Penny, but I am so glad she is eating for you.

You are doing a wonderful job taking care of her and trying to do what is best for her.

Hope she has a good day!

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks Janis and Julie

Ok now thinking about this....no I cant cut back on the rice...which I think is bloatong her.....because her poop is soft.....I believe it's soft cause she is eating a lot of canned food.....nothing solid....for her she needs to eat 3 to 5 cans a day per instructions on can......I haven't given her that much...going slowly..plus she's getting chicken.....so

Suggestions on how to balance this out?? Want to build her up before Wednesday and get her poops under control. Thanks

Hugs xoxo

[StarDeb55]

A small amount of canned pumpkin, maybe?

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Deb

this little fuss budget wont eat the pumpkin---shes a tough one for sure!! So to get her full nurtrition I should give her all the canned food it says to --- maybe the low end since shes getting the chicken and rice with it??

[Altira]

Ok forget the pumpkin. I'd not be concerned with her weight. Dont over feed. You want her comfortable and happy. Four small meals a day sounds good to me. And tons of happy attention. Soft poop is to be expected. I wouldn't change anything now. If you can keep her where she is right now. Wonderful! Good job mom!

Things vets have said to me in the past pre surgery:
Don't make any changes now.
The best thing you can do is walk her, no matter what.

[mypuppy]

Hi Cindy,

As I understand it, the real goal here is to increase her weight, so I can see why you would be feeding a little more than usual, no? I'm no expert with all this, but sounds like you are doing the right thing if you need that Penny girl to gain some weight. As for my sweet Princess, ugh, she wants to eat everythin--I think she'd eat the house and everything in it if you let her. Where's that dose increase when you need it, really? LOL.

This will all work out in the end, don't worry.

Love ya...xo Jeanette and Princess

[Cyn719]

I remember the days when Penny wanted everything:D. When is Princess next test? $$$ lol Vet said it would be nice to get a few pounds on her....if the four small meals a day does it good....it not don't push it. She's doing good eating...added a tiny handful of kibble soaked in the broth to her dinner.....she left half....that kibble turns her off....so no more kibble for now....she consumes a can plus of wet food a day plus rice and chicken...she seems content. Backing off on baby food ...which was only one tablespoon but don't want that to add to the soft poop. I know she would love some steak or roast beef right now but vet said she would like to see her stay away from the red meats for now.

Hugs to all xoxo

[Harley PoMMom]

To try to increase weight I would definitely be adding carbs such as: noodles, oats, bulgur, rice, and barley. These proteins should be good for her: salmon, mackerel, tuna or sardines, and eggs.

[Sugar]

I gave my little girl Ensure, she loved it and the vet said that is was okay.

[Cyn719]

Wow never heard of that....but good to look into especially after she has her took out:)

[Cyn719]

Lori

She likes tuna and I think salmon.....I have to go get canned food tomorrow I will get the one with salmon in it:)

[Altira]

I've read bad things about tuna. But maybe that was for cats. My sister fed her cats nothing but tuna and it did not turn out well. You fed Penny red meat before? =8-0
I'm sort of suprized the vet said to increase her weight. I thought they were more concerned with maintaining weight. Gaining or loosing weight can be signs of illness. But what do I know.
I guess it's safe to say you don't weigh Penny at home. That would make the whole thing a lot harder. How do you know if your making progress or not...

[Cyn719]

I don't give her like a can of tuna.....IMS told me if I put a drop of tuna fish or the juice from it on her food she would like it. I don't think they want me to make her fat, I think she wanted me to get some meat on her bones cause after surgery she won't eat good for 5 to 7 days....and she has already lost enough weight. And yes she did eat read meat before---is that good or bad?

As long as I give her my mixture she will eat:) guess I will be sealing out a new kibble. She was on senior Wellness kibble.

Hugs:) xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

I think the issue with tuna probably has to do with heavy metal contamination, which is common in many fish, fresh or canned, unfortunately. However, the benefits outweigh the risks in most cases when intake is moderate/low. Squirt and Trinket both get water packed sardines in their feed. ;)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157504001863

[Altira]

Yeah I read good things about Sardines in water. Humans get milk shakes after oral surgery don't they? Maybe a taste of ice cream mom? lol... Actully that Ensure stuff sounds like a good idea at least for the first day. That's just a milky liquid I think. I think I tried giving it to Mira but she wouldn't touch it. Oh Mira.

I won't say that I never fed my dogs red meat. I give them a whole pound of cook hamburger on their birthdays. Its just that they say never to feed them poeple food. You know table scrapes. Probably Leslie would know better then me. Huskies tend to be finicky.

[Squirt's Mom]

For the most part, people food is good for them...but table scraps aren't. Here's why - the food we eat in it's natural state is fine but table scrapes often contain spices, seasonings, or have been cooked in a manner that puts that same good food in it's natural state on the no-no list. Example - beef and pasta is fine for a dog but Lasagna isn't because of the added spices; most fresh or frozen veggies are fine but canned veggies aren't because of additives. So "people food" and "table scrapes" aren't the same thing usually. Most people food that is baked or broiled or steamed is fine, fried is not as it takes more oil/fat to fry plus frying allows the natural fats to accumulate in/on the food. So far I have learned nothing that changes my mind about raw feeding with an ill dog - especially those who's immune systems are already compromised. ;)

Hope Penny had a good nite and has a great day ahead!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks ladies -

Now I get the difference between people food and table scraps -- :)

xo

[marie adams]

Hi Cindy,

Looks like you are doing a great job with Penny--she is so lucky to have you and you are so lucky to have her!!! :D:D

((((HUGS))))

[Cyn719]

Ok everyone tommorrow is the day! The nasty tooth finally comes out! Nervous ...yes I am! I would be nervous either way but knowing about the tumor is making it worse. I just emailed Dr. Joo with all my concerns. Had to also remind her that Penny aspirated during one of her surgeries....she said they would give her a shot of pepcid. Dave is dropping her off around 8-8:30 and she will be the second surgery of the day. Him and I will go back to get her around 6:00. Prayers and good thoughts need for sure!

Love and hugs xoxo

[mypuppy]

Dearest Cindy,

We so understand those feelings right now, but you can best bet on all our continued prayers for your sweet Penny, and look forward to getting a wonderful update from you sometime tomorrow. You and your girl will get through this.

We will be thinking of both of you with much, much love, beginning at 8 a.m. tomorrow.

Sweet blessings and tight hugs.

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Squirt's Mom]

Sending prayers and healing white light flying your way, sweetie! You know we will be right by your side the whole time.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Mega tons of prayers being said and sent for you and sweet Penny. We are all fluttering around you both with our love and prayers.

[Skye]

i am wedging in between all the fluttering of the angels on board, should have brought a jacket.....all their fluttering is giving me goose bumps.
love and hugs....................positive thoughts, energy, and look forward to that update

[addy]

Oh Cindy, we will all be with you tomorrow, every minute of the day, you won't spend one minute alone:):):):):)

Lately, when my mind goes wandering to those "forbidden territories" that are fraught with worry and fear, I tell myself, "no, go to your safe zone" and I think of a nice thought, a happy thought. I especially do that in the middle of the night when I can't sleep.

So tonight, when you are trying to rest, make sure you go to your safe zone:):):)

I know you are a night owl so I will wish you hugs and love around 3:00am;);););););)

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thank you Cush Angels:)

It was so nice out today, cool but sunny. Penny was outside all day! She ate....she rolled on her back kicking those feet in he air:D...we went for a short walk and she is out like a light now! She will be up soon and I will give her just alittle more food...her tramadol and bed for her...hoping she leaps well. Me??....yup Addy you are right..I am a night hawk for sure and tonight will be a long night! I am so happy this tooth will finally be out...but vet today did say this is a very painful operation:(....I hope she gives her good drugs!!

I know I would never get through this...or anything else Penny has gone through without all of you right by our side. I will post tomorrow as soon as I hear from Dr. Joo. She said she is second tomorrow for surgery so maybe 1030ish they will start ....takes at least one hour minimum.

Keeping you all very very close.....Hugs xoxo

[jmac]

Cindy-
You and Penny are always in my thoughts and I will definitely say a prayer for Penny tonight. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, and I certainly hope and pray everything goes as well as it can.

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Sending all of our positive thoughts for an easy procedure tomorrow. hugs, Judi

[Cyn719]

Thank you:)

Just letting Penny out and giving her the a treat and pain pill - hope she sleeps well

xo

[Altira]

You are in our hearts sweet Penny. God be with Dr. Joo.

[Spiceysmum]

Cindy and Penny,

Sending best wishes for today, thinking of you both.

Linda

[frijole]

Good morning girls - sending you both love and best wishes today. Kim

[labblab]

Me, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marianne

[Altira]

Me! Too!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm there as well!

(((((((HUGS)))))))

[jmac]

Good morning-

Just want you to know I am thinking of you both and hoping for the very best news for sweet Penny!

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Me too Cindy- I was saying hi to you at 2:00am:):):):)


(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) )))))))))))

love,
addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Me here too!!!

[SasAndYunah]

Thinking of the both of you too...

Sas :)

[Altira]

Can't sleep. Too worried.

[Cyn719]

Hi sorry it took so long - I had an appointment - Vet called - it was very hard to talk with her since I was at my own appt. She did good - said she did get stress colitis - said the canine tooth was not reacting when she probed it so she did not take it out but knew something in there was causing her pain -- she found a HUGE cavity in a molder that ate through to the pulp which she said must be causing lots of pain -- she said just think what a small cavity feels like this one is so huge the pulp was exposed so she took the molder out and filled another smaller cavity. They called me at 11:30 not sure how long it was - said she will be in pain for a few days - said the tooth was big and the roots were long and deep. Putting her on gabapentin and tramadol. She is calling me back after - she had to do surgery on the next dog - she will see how she is and see when we can pick her up - the later the better - so has anyone else had this stress colitis issue??

This little girl was so nervous they couldnt get her to walk in the back- she would not move - David had to walk her back there - this was the most stressed she has ever been:( So what is this stress colitis - she said it started while the surgery was going on -- I was so nervous all morning I had to have David drive me to my appointment!! I still feel stressed - glad its over but I need to really talk with her since I couldnt ask the questions I wanted to --- thank you all for being with me and holding me up - cause really I dont know how else I was standing!!!

Love you all so much!!!!! I will post again when she calls back
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Squirt's Mom]

Stress colitis is nervous diarrhea, usually with mucous and blood involved. Once this is over and Penny is back home in familiar surroundings, it should settle down and be back to normal poops. If she needs a bit of help, try some Slippery Elm Bark since she won't eat pumpkin... or the vet may give you something for it.

Glad they looked at her mouth and found the actual problem! WOW, that had to be hurting a lot! :( I bet her appetite will pick now. ;)

Let us know how things are going! SO glad this is behind you both!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thanks Leslie

I have not heard from her since 1130 so I am going to call at 330 - they were suppose to call back - I home shes ok to make the ride home - its 45 mins to an hour depending on traffic - hope there is something they can give her there -- I will ask as soon as I get them

xo

[Altira]

I think Kira has had this many times when boarded at the vets. At one certain vet. I changed vets and it didn't happen ever again. I'd get her home and shed have the poops but it cleared up quickly. Please let us know when you hear anything!

[Altira]

She home yet Cindy? Get well soon Penny...

[Cyn719]

We are home!! That was a long 45 min ride home! Vet said she was going to give her a shot for the pain when we picked her up but she seemed so calm she didn't want her to be in a coma state. She was anxious on the way home. We had to stop a few times for her to pee. That molar was so big and so hard to take out. Basically cause the roots are so deep and there are two of them. She said the pulp was totally exposed. She is actually calm right now....but wants to drink a lot of water. I am giving her small amount so she doesnt get sick. Vet said try alittle baby food around 9ish. Pain should be strong for the first 2 to 3 days. I have the tramadol.

Thank you all so very much:):):) starving so going to get some take out

Hugs xoxoxo

[jmac]

So glad you made it home! I am glad to hear she is calm and hope she will be okay tonight. I'm sure she is so glad to be back home with her people! I'm sure you are thrilled she is home too!

Now you can relax a little!

Julie & Hannah

[Altira]

Awe.... :D Home and all is as well as to be expected!!! Cool! So happy. :D:D:D:D I bet the pain she has now is not as bad as what she did have. At least for me the pain after pulling a tooth was far less then it was before!

No mention of the poops on the way home... that's very good news!

Kira has had 4 big molars pulled (two at a time) and I didn't give her any pain killers at all. She didn't need it.

You both should sleep well tonight!!! ;)

[Harley PoMMom]

So glad to hear that you are all home...Sending huge and loving hugs...

[Cyn719]

Penny wanted to eat...I just gave her rice..minced chicken...a little baby food and the plain broth from the chicken....she licked it up..hope it stays in her tummy....going to give her a tramadol at 11...her face is a little swollen...to be expected .....hoping she gets a good notes sleep:)

Xoxo

[frijole]

Wonderful news. I hope that once the pain from the extraction goes away that she has relief! I bet she will be markedly improved. Keep us posted. Great that she is hungry. Sleep tight.

[Altira]

sshhhh.... I think they are sleeping... :rolleyes:

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin'!

I hope you all had a good nite's rest. It was so thrilling to peek in last nite and see that Penny was hungry and had eaten a good meal. :) I hope the day goes well.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

First thank you to all of you! Amazing is the first thing that comes to mind when I speak of my Cush Angel friend:). The love,support and advice is the best!:)

Leslie

She had a pretty good night. Went out twice. Slept pretty good. With the meds from yesterday and the tramadol she was and still is tired. She go up this morning and had chicken and rice:D and went back to sleep. She needs a tramadol soon ..... Hate to keep here so drugged but vet said at least today give her the meds during the day because the tooth was really tough coming out and the holes are very very deep. But yes the poop is more diarrhea today...last night wasnt as bad. So I should probably give the slippery elm??

Hugs xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Yeah, I would but be sure it is 2 hours either side of any medications. In other words, 2 hours before or 2 hours after anything else as the SEB can interfere with their absorption.

I agree with the vet about keeping her pain level down especially today. ;)

Glad to hear she is doing alright otherwise today!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

IMS called - she said there is a Rx at CVS for Penny if she continues to have the loose poops - she only went once today and it was loose - so Im going to wait till she goes again - had two small meals today - I just went to feed her - she wont even look at it and she is drooling - I assume it must be pain?? So I just gave her the pain meds - I was only going to give her half of it cause she gets so knocked out but again being the first day I guess its better to be knocked out??? Thanks:)

[Squirt's Mom]

She may be drooling because of the pain med. How long has it been since she had a dose?

[Altira]

If you don't have slippery elm on hand you might try the pumpkin again. If the vet is suggesting methodozale then I'd at least go get it too. And use it if nothing else works. It's a good thing to have on hand anyway. Don't panic. I don't think I've ever had the first 24 to 48 hours after surgery go smoothly. Huskies are whiners.

[Cyn719]

Leslie.

She went alittle too long without the pain meds.....cause I gave her the tramadol and an hour later she was at my feet wanting to eat....and the little piggy ate a good amount too.....just rice and chicken. :)

Janis

CvS has the Rx ready .... I am going to get it.....she only went poop twice today ...it was very soft...vet said if she's not running out to go and go wait till the AM and if still like diarrhea then start the med

Penny went through this surgery like a trooper. She did great! Hope the next few days go just as well :)

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

Happy happy happy. I don't think you could have asked for more considering. Yeah anxious pooping is a concern. If your not seeing that then your doing great. Bless your furry butt Penny!

[Altira]

Oops it double posted somehow.

[Cyn719]

Didn't double post on my end:). Going to bed cause she is sleeping...she's been sleeping a lot....I guess cause she had meds late this afternoon...and one tonight....hope tomorrow she can cut down on the pills.....we will see:)

[Altira]

Love to see the smiles in your posts! Sleep is a great healer.

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone - I have been checking in reading your threads but havent posted on them but I want you to know each and every one of you and your fur babies are in my thoughs and prayers:)
Just been taking care of my girl - she seemed better thurs but last night and today not so good - maybe that big hole in her mouth will hurt more before it gets better - hopefully by sunday or monday she will be alot better - the paper from vet says at least 5 days I will need to give pain meds -- that will be monday ....but shes eating soft food that is good --- Well going to feed her a small meal again ---- check in soon:)

hugs and love xoxoxoxoxoxo

Penny apppreciates all the thoughts - kisses - hugs - and belly rubs!:D

[addy]

Hope she feels better soon. Monday can't come fast enough

(((hugs))))

When Zoe had 3 teeth out, one they had to dig out, OMG, I swore never again so I can understand Penny having pain.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Addy for telling me that - she does seem like she is alot of pain today - it was the back molar and she has pit bull in her so it was a huge tooth - vet did say she had to dig and dig the roots were so long - I just feel bad - this seems like her worse day - I just tried to give her a pill - everything in there is so swollen - she wont take it in a pill pocket - or cream chesse - or baby food - or peanut butter - or cottage cheese - I crushed it in her food and she must of tasted it cause she wont eat -- shes laying down not so maybe later she will be hungry - I think shes getting tired of chicken and rice!! lol

Hugssss xoxoxoxo

[Altira]

Kira never had any swelling with her tooth pulls. But her teeth were broken and not infected. If I were you I'd poke that pain pill down her throat. Did the vet say anything about swelling? Maybe an ice pack if she will let you? Is she taking any antibitics? Maybe you should speak to Dr. Joo?

[Cyn719]

No antibiotics - hopefull some of the pain pill got in her - now I have to start the pills for her poop - it was doing good now it just turned to a very soft stool not water but like melting soft serve:p

Janis Addy or Leslie -- I have to go get the pills now - cvs didnt have them ready when I went and I didnt rush back cause she was doing good now I need them - its this a big pill also - one of you mentioned the name now I forgot

[jmac]

Cindy,
I'm surprised you don't have an antibiotic. I have NEVER gone home without an antibiotic after one of my girls had a tooth pulled. In fact, I think they even give me one if they do a lot of scraping. I don't want to worry you, but I'm surprised they wouldn't send something to prevent a possible infection.

I hope you can get a pill in her mouth soon. I know those deep-rooted teeth can be scary ones. I have no doubt that it really hurts!

Sending love and hugs to Penny!

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

I have been trying to remember if we gave her a antibiotic last time she had tooth pulled......now I might have to call tufts to ask....my brain is so fried I can't remember:o

[frijole]

Cindy - are you giving tramadol in pill form? FYI they have liquid form and it is fantastic and much easier to give.

[Altira]

Yes Kira was given antibiotics both times. Most recently in 2009 they gave her Antirobe and Deramaxx for pain. I'm suprized they did NOT send antibiotics home with you.

What are they giving you for the poops!!!? Metronidazole 500mg I hope!

[Harley PoMMom]

Penny might have been given a antibiotic shot called Convenia. If she was, this shot will last 10-14 days in her system.

[Cyn719]

Thanks kim.....I didn't know that...you think they would offer that

Lori I dont see the charge on her paperwork for any other shots...does that seem weird no antibiotics at all?

[Altira]

They should have given you a list of what they did and the charges. It should show any shots they gave her too. There should be an Antibiotic Inj in the list at the very least. Kira's shows that plus the Antirobe 150mg meds.

[Cyn719]

No I just read it again....the only shot she got was famotidine which was Pepcid. I just let mike read it also....nothing...weird.....well fingers crossed she sleeps..I will ask tufts tomorrow....it's 120 and I have to be up by 7 ish for my brothers friends mass...I mentioned him....he was 46.....died from lung cancer....so young.


Nite...

[Altira]

I'm so sorry Cindy. I hope you are ok... :(

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone..... Long day....it was sad but what a beautiful mass and tribute....a firefighters tribute is so beautiful and emotional....

Penny started the flagel today....question. Her Rx says one tablet twice a day for seven days....when I talked to the vet he other day she said if you use it you do not have to finish it......if anyone else has used it did you just stop it when you wanted to? Yesterday was a bad day all around for her but this afternoon she seems alittle better...another question sh seems to be getting tired of rice and chicken since she been eating it fir weeks....do you think it's ok to go to ha burger and rice?? Thanks for the input.......:)

Hugs xoxo

[Harley PoMMom]

I have used metronidazole (Flagyl) with Harley and did just used it when needed.

If Penny is getting tired of chicken and rice, how about changing the rice up with noodles or potatoes. If you are wanting to use hamburger, I would go with the leanest you can find and then I would still mix the hamburger with chicken.