Vetoryl / Cushings Disease - Dear Penny has passed

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

I hope it is not a UTI. I was worried Zoe had some kind of yeast infection when they did not find a UTI but IMS said no.

Hoping for the best for you and Penny.

love,
addy

[Rebelsmom]

Sending you and Penny some love :)

[Cyn719]

Addy

Maybe I am wrong - I hope so - but Pennys routine is to clean herself after she pees but lately I see her do that often - that could be a sign right?? and like I said in the past the urine was very clear from the cushings and it looked dark but maybe normal - I cant get in next week with the IMS so the reg vet is doing it -- you think thats ok???? Maybe its ok and I can take the results to the IMS - I still cant figure if its the Cushings - the cold air - or just feeling better that she wants to eat alot and she is really frisky today???????

Thanks Melissa!!!:):)

Hugsssss xo

[Skye]

popping in to hug and love on you both!!!!!!

[addy]

How dark is the urine? I originally thought Zoe had a UTI because she was licking herself which she had NOT been doing and having accidents in the house. The accidents turned out to be a time adjustment. The licking we don't know because her paw chewing also got worse.

Licking herself could be caused by other things not just a UTI but if she is urinating more, I would check it out and if her urine is darker than it normally is. I have found with Zoe, when she holds it longer, it is more yellow. When she is up and about chewing her Kong and slurping water and going out frequently, it is very pale.

If you are worried about it, have it checked.

hugs,
addy

[marie adams]

Hi Cindy,

Just popping in to say Hi. I hope Penny doesn't have a UTI. I don't remember Maddie chewing on herself at all during her Cushings time. There were times I thought her numbers were up because she seemed far to interested in food again and drank a little more water. Sometimes I think we watch them so much we cannot remember how it was a month before--always second guessing because we know what they can get with the Cushings. I even watch Ella too much and checking her poop. She has food allergies so now I have to watch that.

Take care and Hugs to both you and Penny!!!

[Cyn719]

Thanks Skye - Addy - Marie - Melissa - Jeanette and Rummers Mom

Penny has appt at 1000 tomorrow morning - will take her urine - it was dark but not really to bad - use to it being diluted from cushings when she was drinking tons-

will give her the once over - her from legs are so bad now - out of the blue - she is struggling for sure - and her front paws got sooooo flat footed - I think vet said from the arthritis - its the reg vet doing the urine test - ims is away - I am hoping she cant screw this up ???????? who knows!!!!! but this will be the first time she sees Penny since we went to the IMS - she will have a chip on her should for sure but whatever - Penny comes first and she needed the IMS - see how that goes:rolleyes:

still the same meds - may increase the gabapentin - just added the fish oil - 600 mg a day - is that enough?? squirted from the capsule onto her food - any other suggestions for this?? thanks all:)

hugsssss xoxoxoxoxoxoxox

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

I thought I had posted on your thread here somewhere the dosing of fish oil based on weight. I know when I was using the capsules with Squirt, at 15 lbs it took 2 capsules to get the EPA and DHA I wanted her to have. But I may have been using one that had a much lower value of these than you are. ;)

Hope you find some answers to the questions about her urine and licking today...and that the GP vet understands her place in the grand scheme of Penny's world these days. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rebelsmom]

Wishing you luck today Cindy :)

[Cyn719]

Hi Penny went for test - she doesnt think it is uti but will run test - Pennys anal glands were FULL!!!!!!!!:eek: The worse she every saw with Penny - this happens often with her and I usually know when it needs to be done but this time I didnt see any signs so her licking may have been a sign - not something she did in the pass so I thought licking that area was a UTI?? We will see - Penny is 75lbs - she was 85 when we started with the cushings - but vet said she is at a better weight for her arthritis - but this weight lost must be from muscle wasting also and she is on a reduced fat diet - in the past it was so hard for her to lose weight now its falling off her - change food agan?? - going to increase the gabapentin to twice a day to see if that helps with her legs - I am just worried that its going to make her very tired during the day - also this is what she is eating now - maybe go to maintenance or wait it out to see if she continues to lose? Maybe she needs more protien or more fat??? Thanks for your help:) love and hugs always xoxo


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[Cyn719]

any input on changing the food from last post?

new pics of Penny finally!

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-
Palmer lost a LOT of weight over a short period of time, so I know exactly how awful it feels. And Palmer started out at only 22 lbs.
I asked the vet about expressing anal glands and was told don't bother. You could empty them today and they could fill up tomorrow. We've never done it with any of our dogs....but we have periodically asked the vet to do it.
I don't have help or suggestions to offer.....just to let you know I'm thinking about you and Penny.
-Susan

[Skye]

oh the anal glands....lol, glove up and put on paper gown and paper on floor. LOL, its not really good to do them often, as the muscle then gets laxed and doesnt remain toned and they will need expressed more and more, but when they need it they need it and omg they feel so much better afterwards.
for her legs....has she tried the water therapy? the treadmill like thing that is in water? and it comes about belly high
When it comes to food.....and changing diets....they have changed my little girls diet at least 7 times since May. I finally said ENOUGH. I home cook for her now.
honest Kitchen has great things too
wonder if you add supplement if that would help her....you know, just like some supplements for people help them lose or gain fat and or muscle....there are those available for our babies, BUT check with vets first. Hope all went well today. Sending you love and hugs to both you sweethearts!!!!

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, I don't have any useful info for you sorry..Lol

Your pictures are great she looks like a very happy pup and I will continue to send good thoughts to both of you.

[Cyn719]

Hi Vet called said she Penny has a UTI - well she didnt do the culture yet that goes out today but the pre part of it showed increased white cells, red cells, rods?, and ecoli - I think thats what she said - I was at a funeral and had to talk quick - she said we can start her on a antibiotic tomorrow and when the results come back on Fri or Sat we can switch to another antibiotic -- its tues cant we just wait and put her on the right one fri or sat?? I hate all these different meds -- she also said urine was diluted - usually seen in cush dogs -- so I will get a copy of the test when I get the pills --

[Bailey's Mom]

Well.....I don't know about dogs, but when I was whisked away in an ambulance to the hospital in the middle of the night/morning, they found I had a UTI. They stressed to me how it was really important to catch those things quickly and start treatment right away. They told me never to feel I'm "bothering" a doc, if I think I may have an UTI.
For what it's worth.
-Susan

[BestBuddy]

Better to start an antibiotic straight away before the UTI gets worse. You will only need to switch meds if the one you start taking doesn't get a high rating when you find out the exact infection you are dealing with. You may be lucky enough to be using the right one and then you will be many days ahead of where it would have been if you had waited.

Jenny

[addy]

Hey Cindy,

The only input I have about UTI's is that from what I read it is important to use the right antibiotic for the bacteria. Sorry that is what Penny has but at least you know now what you are dealing with.

I dont understand why she would start one antibiotic and then switch to the "right" one but isn't this the infamous vet?

Maybe someone else will have input on that:);)

love,
addy

[StarDeb55]

Here's the deal. If rods were present in the urine, that indicates a specific kind of bacteria as opposed to cocci. Cocci bacteria usually indicates either a staph or strep infection. In the urine with rods present, there is a high probability that this is E. coli which is probably the most common bacteria to be found in a UTI. The vet is probably basing the treatment decision on the above, & the odds are with them, that they're right. Now, when the culture comes back, it will show them 2 things, exactly what kind of bacteria is present, & the types of antibiotic susceptibility of the bacteria present. On the off chance that the initial antibiotic that was used showed as resistant, then the antibiotic would most definitely have to be changed to one of the ones that the bacteria are susceptible to. They really do this with people all the time. You go to the ER with a suspected UTI, the ER doc gets the UA report back, makes an "educated guess" based on what I've explained & gets you started on an antibiotic. This is why the ER will tell you to follow up with your primary care, so they can make sure that you are on the correct antibiotic.

Hope this helps.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

There are SO many smart, experienced, very helpful people on this site. Makes me proud to know them!
-Susan

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Just stopping in to say I hope Penny is feeling better soon!

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone!
Deb I get what you are saying - now I remember thats what happened to me - I went on a antibiotic and then when the culture came back I had to switch to another one - so do you think I should put her on a antibiotic for wed and thur and see what the culture says on fri? she said shes only going to give me 4 pills and the refill the rx for the rest of the cycle or change it to something else - will it hurt to wait the 2 days in your opinion? and the diluted urine? prob cushings? she is not drinking to much - she is a bit more hungry - she did not blow her coat - but did lose weight and muscle loss - the question is still out there is she really had cushings - acth was 11 ims said if not really cushings then 11 is normal ---- if cushings then 11 is high ---- but they are not doing anything right now because there are really no strong symptoms ---- again thanks everyone for your input - very much appreciated:) hugssssxoxoxoxoxo

[StarDeb55]

If the vet told you to start the antibiotics,now, then that's what you need to do.

Debbie

[Altira]

Cindy,

It all gets too technical for me to help much, except to tell you I'm thinking about you. Not a damn good thing about feeling scared. I hope they get her on the right track soon.

[addy]

Cindy, from what Deb is saying, and she sure knows her stuff, if it were me, I would go ahead and start.

Hope Penny feels better real soon.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone!! :)

Deb thanks for explaining it:) - and I should of said the vet said you can put her on a antibiotic for 3 days while waiting for the culture or just wait till Friday -- she gave me a choice -- but I did listen to everyones advice and called this am and the vet said its your choice but if it was my dog I would start it now -- ok she could of said that yesterday:rolleyes: so I got the pills today -- shes on Clavamox 250mg -- 2 pills bid - Also would a UTI cause increased drinking?

she also started her gabapentin twice a day today - see how that goes - I think she is going to be very tired - she doesnt seem right - my son said he thinks she had a tremor last night - she was gazing into space then did the blinking her eyes quickly thing and twitched her head (like in the past) but I will watch her closely - she was only doing that when she was on the trilo which she has been off since Sept. - I will contact the IMS

hugsssss to all xoxoxoxo

[Rebelsmom]

Hey Cindy, hoping Penny feels better soon. I remember reading that UTI's can cause increased drinking, at least I think I remember that. :)

[Cyn719]

Thanks Melissa!! she been alittle mush the last few days - maybe its the uti and she is drinking alittle more - today she may be tired from the gabapentin - so we will see how the next few days go -

hugsssss xoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

I'm here with ya, Cindy. Thinking of you and Penny and hope things are going well.
-Susan

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

How is Penny this morning?

Yes, you can expect to see an increase in drinking and peeing with a UTI - but that's good as it helps flush the kidneys and bladder. ;) If Penny will take cranberry juice (unsweetened, plain CB juice) or dried cranberries they can help by increasing the acidity level in the body which helps prevent bacteria from being able to live in that environment.

You can also expect to see Penny be a bit more sluggish with the Gabapentin increase for a few days. If it works for her like it does me, she will notice and react to the increase for a few days. Then her body will adjust and she will be as usual.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rebelsmom]

Morning Cindy, hoping Penny is feeling better today.

[Cyn719]

Thanks Melissa Sue and Leslie

Yes Leslie she did seem sluggish yesterday - hopefully like you said after a few days on it she will adjust - Plus she must be alittle sluggish from the UTI - I will try alittle cranberry juice in her water - she is a fussy one but I will give it a try:)

hugsssss xoxo

[Cyn719]

Hi everyone - update on Penny

Did not get culture back yet

Penny isnt feeling great - could be the extra gapbapentin - Leslie said it will take a few days to adjust to it - seems alittle wobblie on her feet - she was shaking alittle earlier - it stopped - very tired - spitting up water - she does that when she drinks to much but doesnt seem to be drinking an excessive amount - clavamox could be upsetting her stomach - I am giving it to her with breakfast and dinner - both vets are not in the office -I know shes not happy she cant stay outside - gusting winds 40 mph and 30 degrees -

Also questioning if cushings is active again --- all she wants when shes awake is to eat eat eat!! shes actually pawing at me to get my attention and is barking for food - not a good sign

Any thoughts? Thanks!!! xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

The wobblies, shakes and tiredness could easily be due to the Gabapentin. It can cause dizziness until the body become accustomed to it. You might consider talking to your vet about increasing it at half dose VS whole dose. In other words, if she was taking 1 pill a day, increase it by 1/2 pill at a time as needed. Your spacing of morning and evening dosing is right on. ;)

Another thought - Gabapentin will cause the effects of narcotics like Hydrocodone to be magnified; drugs like Hydrocodone causes the effects of Gabapentin to be magnified. I don't find any references to other drug interactions but you could ask your vet, or better yet, your pharmacist, about the possible interactions of the Gabapentin with the other pain control meds she may still be using. Pharmacists are always the ones to consult about drug interactions, counter-indications, etc. Drugs are their bailiwick! ;) (As a pharmacist, my mom would send nightmares to me if I didn't let you know that little tidbit of info! :eek::p)

The "goal" in humans is to give the Gabapentin time to get into the body then other pain medications are reduced and, hopefully, removed from the regimen so that the only thing needed is the Gabapentin. Now, whether that works the same in canines, I don't know.

I don't find where increased appetite is a side effect. When I forget to take my thyroid meds, as I often do, my appetite SOARS! I could eat a whole cow on the hoof! :eek:;):D

When was Penny's last ACTH? How long has she been off the Trilo now?

I hope you both had a comfortable, restful night.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mypuppy]

Oh Cindy,

So sorry to hear Penny is still off:( Wish we could snap our fingers and make them better. When is she due for another stim? I know there has always been a doubt of her even having cushings, but how would you explain the excessive eating if all the other obvious conditions have been ruled out? I don't know much on UTI's, maybe someone will pop in and explain if they cause excessive hunger? Don't know? Poor thing, on all those meds, I too would have nausea, yuckiest feeling in the world..:mad: Please hang in there, and I pray your girl starts to feel a bit better real soon.

We love ya...xo Jeanette and Princess

[labblab]

Hi Cindy, sorry I don't have any great insights, although it does sound as though Cushing's could be rearing it's ugly head again :o. But I do want you to know I'm thinking about you girls, and hoping that Penny may be feeling a bit better today.

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Thanks so much Jeanetter Marianne and Leslie

Leslie

Last ACTH was in September - it was 11 --- thats when the IMS said 11 is normal if the dog doesnt have cushings but high if dog does have cushings ----- at that point they left her off the trilo wonder if she really had cushings --- which I believe she did - with drinking 11 bowls of water a day and panting constantly - but ??? she really has not had any symptoms to go back on it - until now - the increased eating and just alittle increased drinking and panting -- nothing that bad yet -- I have to see if I can get a lower strength gabapentin for the daytime - these are 100s and are capules - my husband thought the vet said this was the lowest mg ??? If so can I open the capsule and pour out half?? She went out out 1030 then 200 then 430 then 830 - not as restful as I wanted -- lol but I just called the vet - she has a UTI - I will get the paper work on that when I pick up the new meds - he said the clavamox she is on wont work for this infection -- going to feed her now - Thanks :)

hugssss xoxo

[addy]

Oh Cindy, I hope Penny feels better. It does sound like it may be her cortsiol but with all the meds???:o:o:o:o Look what happened to Zoe with the one dose of benadryl and she was fine with it when she wasn't taking the skin antibiotic.

Sending love and hugs,
addy

[mypuppy]

Hi Cindy,

Thinking of you and your Penny girl with much love.

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Rebelsmom]

Sending you love from not so warm Florida :)

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Just checking in. Hoping Penny is doing a little better.

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks everyone - you all are so sweet!!!!!

Penny just switched meds for her UTI - so hopefully she will feel better in a few days

She still isnt adjusting to the gabapentin during the day so I am going to try to sprinkle out half of it so she will get something.

Her back end and legs still arent doing well but I am not giving up the the gabapentin - it may kick in

Melissa 5 here last night - 20 now ---- brrrrrrr and this crazy dog wants to be outside!!!! I let her but I drag her in cause of her arthirtis

Hugssssssssss xoxo

[Rebelsmom]

Ok maybe we are not that cold, and I'm so glad Rebel doesn't like to be out when it is as cold as it is here now.. I have to make him go to to potty.. Sadie on the other hand is not so bright and thinks it is great!

[Cyn719]

Rebel is the smart one!!!!:D Not like crazy Penny and Sadie who what to hang outside int he cold!!! She scratches at that door to go out and I have to drag her in -- yesterday wasnt to bad during the day - the sun was out so I put her bed there - but today no sun and its still only 20 - but I have her in now- she napping in Mikes man cave down stairs - lol shes going to miss him - he leaves Sunday!!:( Me tooo!!!!! but to long of a vacation - they should cut the winter vacation short and just get out earlier - hes ready to go back and tackle Organic Chemistry:eek::rolleyes:

Hugsssss xo

[Cyn719]

My husband picked up the urine reoport form the vet - they only sent me the paper that says

Organism #1 Escherichia Coli
She didnt give me the breakdown of the red cells white cells etc -- gave her Cefpodoxime

[Cyn719]

IMS called tonight - I told her about the little increase in her appetite and drinking - she said maybe we need to think about starting on a very low dose of lysodren - but she said lets get through her UTI first and then we will discuss it -- explained how the gabapentin is causing her to be so tired during the day and she seems to be off balance from it so we are going to cut the day dose to half --- also I asked about the previcox and she said we can try it but she has to be off the trilo for 2 weeks - ugg that scares me -- the last time we went off of it all together she has really bad issues - but I do want to try it so I guess I will stop it as of right now and see if we can get through it - wants to run a blood panel after the UTI and before the previcox - any input on this ??

Love and hugs from me and Penny xoxo

[Skye]

aweeeeeeeeeeee cindy and penny.........hope this finds you both doing better. you know i had read that is another thing that can happen is they seek out cooler spots to be in.......maybe that is why penny wants to be outside?
did they suggest an u/s by chance to make sure everything is okay? sending you love and hugs sweethearts.

[Altira]

Hi Cindy,

As you know both our dogs started taking gabapentin at about the same time. It's making Kira ummm... not so much as sleepy as it is maybe lazy? At times... Cus she not sleeping. I have to do a song and a dance to get her to get up for a walk. I start telling her like 15 minutes ahead of time. She's got this look on her face like... "I don't want to." Nope.... no is not an option.. got to get up and get those legs moving. She's not in pain, she's not limping, she goes two miles like it or not. She does seem a bit wobblie at times too but mostly when she first gets up. And her appetite is definitly way up too. Drinking has been excessive for many many months. I think that is just ingrained in her mind. I drink a lot some days too. The only time I see excitment is if there is food invovled. Sound familuar?

[Bailey's Mom]

My husband picked up the urine reoport form the vet - they only sent me the paper that says

Organism #1 Escherichia Coli
She didnt give me the breakdown of the red cells white cells etc -- gave her Cefpodoxime

Ohhhhhhhhhh.........I see now................I read that as "orgasim" and I wondered WHAT they taught the vets who practice in North Rhode Island!!!:o;):D

I hope Penny feels better today.:)

-Susan

[Rebelsmom]

haha too funny Susan.. I hope Penny is feeling better. :)

[addy]

Cindy, I sure hope the new antibiotic does the trick!!!!!

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Skye-Janis-Susan-Melissa-Addy

Skye - going to do bloodwork - if she continues to get worse then a ultrasound

Janis -Penny isnt lazy shes really tired and sleeps - but I hope its just the adjusting period --its ok to sleep like that during the night but the daytime was just as back - gave her half today she was just alittle better - If she can stay off Rimadyl for 5 - 7 days we can then try the Previcox

Susan - :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D - to funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Melissa and Addy - Thanks!!:):):):):):)

[Cyn719]

Question - alot of you deal with UTIs -Penny is on-

Cefpodoxime 200 mg once a day for 21 days -- is that a usual dose - its been so long since we treated for a UTI - I would think twice a day - but maybe this is strong??

Now Penny doesnt want to eat - she ate half her food last night and alittle more than a quarter of it today?? The UTI the meds?? not sure what to do - added chicken breast - roast beef ?? maybe its the kibble - hope she doesnt have any broken or cracked teeth or is it the gabapentin?? so confused:confused: Another puzzle to crack

[mypuppy]

Oh Cindy,

Im so sorry Penny is not eating too much now. That is the one thing that always drive us absolutely bonkers:eek: Ugh, ugh.

I wish I knew why she's not eating, but it could it be a slight chance her tummy may be a bit upset on all the meds, or the UTI? I really wish I knew, and hope she will eat for you soonest. So sorry for all your going through.

Praying Penny will be feeling better real soon, gets rid of the yucky UTI, and get's some leg strenth back so she can take a break from all those meds.

Take care of you and we are here for you always.

Love ya much.

xo Jeanette and Princess

[Cyn719]

Hi Jeanette - I hate this - wish she would eat -- waiting now for the vet to call back - she ate just alittle this am so she got in her pill for the UTI - maybe hold off and the gabapentin this am till I hear from vet - ugg if only she could tell me whats bothering her:rolleyes::):p dont we all wish that!! --- I will get back to you later today - yes creme brulee and flan - put on the tea!:D:D

love and hugsssssss xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

Not sure how it works in dogs, but I have to take the large dose of Gabapentin at nite for two reasons. One, I have more pain at nite, and two, it makes me nauseous at times. So you might ask the vet about giving the Gabapentin at nite vs the day time.

Also, antibiotics can really mess with the digestive system sometimes. I am not familiar with the AB Penny is on but you can Google it and find out the side effects. I have been on ABs before that made me feel sicker than the illness they were treating. :eek: This may be the case with Penny. Plus, UTIs just make you feel like crap.

I hope it is something simple like these causing Penny to have little appetite right now. I would suggest feeding her whatever she will eat for now just to keep something on her stomach to help with the meds and to keep her strength up to fight the infection.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, so sorry Penny is feeling bad. Maybe it is just the meds making her feel sick to her stomach. Hope you both can find some relief soon.

[Bailey's Mom]

Is it not just one day or a tad more that she hasn't eaten a full meal? Bailey just went 3 days without eating hardly anything at all. Nothing wrong with her.....she just didn't want food. Sometimes maybe it's better to do what you're told (by vet) and have agreed to and not question every "little' thing. I'm not minimizing what's wrong with Penny, I just have observed so many questions and wondered if that really accomplished a whole lot other than giving you a lot more to worry about.

I agree with Leslie-just try to get something in her tummy so that the meds don't upset her more. You and the doc will figure all this out.....and maybe Penny will tell you. :) Wouldn't that be something???:D
-Susan

[Cyn719]

Thanks Leslie -

Yup you are right - the vet said gabapentin and the Cefpodoxime can both give her an upset stomach -- so she believes that is what it is considering it just started - the gabapentin probably made her alittle upset but adding the antibiotic to it made it worse -- so we just have to make sure she has a full belly to take the pills --- so like you said whatever she wants right now give her:) Within the next 2 weeks they want a blood profile since she hasnt had one done in awhile. Thanks again:)

Hugssssss xoxo

[mypuppy]

Oh Cindy,

As you, when my sweet girl refuses to eat, I WORRY! Merely because it is one of the signs which we have been learned here to watch out for whether on treatment or not, so of course, that opens the door to so many questions and worries over our babies. So ask away, question anything or anyone, and I'm sure someone will come back with something more positive to help put you more at ease.

Feel better soon Penny girl. We are rooting for ya.

you too Cindy.

xo Jeanette

[Rebelsmom]

I hope Penny feels better soon. Spoil that baby with whatever she wants right now :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

Glad to know it was nothing worse than the meds causing her upset. I imagine once the ABs are done, she will feel quite a bit better...and then you will start to feel a whole lot better. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Leslie - yes you are right - when our pups feel better so do we!! Vet said if it continues through the weekend then she will have to see her and she is due for her bloodwork - But its probably the meds - Shes giving me a problem right now - doesnt want to eat - gave her roast beef with her food but that didnt do the trick - so I am trying something else - I dont mind her not eating here and there but she needs to eat now to take this antibiotic - but I just got some more chicken breast -that she seems to like so hopefully this will do the trick:) Thanks again:) xo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-

Saltines will work to help prevent an upset stomach. Maybe she'd be more willing to take some of those.
I did not mean to sound like you were asking too many questions. I was just offering a view from here hoping something might help.
Let us know if Penny does eat. That will be cause for celebration.
Chocovino anyone?:)

-Susan

[Cyn719]

Susan I tried the crackers - fussy didnt like them - but today she did eat half of her breakfast - and tonight she ate all her dinner :):):) She was being fussy before the antibiotics and the gabapetin then when we started the pills she basically didnt want to eat so the pills must be upsetting her - so the vet said it was important to get food into her with these pills so i added roast beef again and had to add chicken breast and broth to that and she ate - and I did start to give her the senior blend of her Wellness - which she has been on reduced fat cause she could never lose a pound now the weight is coming off to fast - IMS said the cushings - muscle wasting - or ??? so she wants her on maintenance to see if she can stay at 75lbs - will do bloodwork in about 2 weeks just to be sure -and back on pepcid too - I appreciate everyones input so never feel like you cant give your opinion or adivce - all is welcome always:) :) Yes I will have a chocovino thank you:D:)

Well going to wait for the white stuff!! calling for 5-6 on top of the 3 we just got!! ok thats enough for now!!

Hugsss to all xoxo

[Cyn719]

Thanks Jeanette:) - she is eating a little better:) now I feel alittle better to:) 15 more days of the antibiotic -- ims want me to try the previcox on Monday or tuesday - hope this is gentle on her tummy - prob not all this med is harsh - but her stomach did do ok on rimadyl --- but that is harsh on kidneys and liver -- it a catch 22 for sure--- ITS SNOWING!!!!!

love and hugs xoxoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

I'm glad to hear she's eating some. Things are looking up!
-Susan

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, so glad to hear that Penny is eating more. Sending you some love and warmth, it's 80 here this weekend!

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
Glad to hear Penny is eating more. Hopefully that trend will continue. You are so right about the Catch 22! Hope you and Penny have a good night.

Julie & Hannah

[Skye]

while we were at gulf coast, they gave me this amazing and i mean amazing pill pockets, oh they were so moist, and smelled so good and she had no issues at all ever taking them and you know shysie has to be extremely cautious. I can try and find out what they were if you would like??? BUT that wont help her eat her meals.....hmmm, doing all the tricks like warming it up, oh have you tried to get on your hands and knees and act like your eating it and being like OH NUMMIE NUM YUM about it and so excited, face in bowl making smacking sounds then looking at her, that has worked for me, or the making jealous.....if shysie wouldnt eat, her "sister" would enter the room and shysie was like, okay i dont want to eat this but i will be damn if your gonna get it so i am eating it attitude, at last resort........sigh.......sit at table with her food on your plate.....she might think she is getting table scraps......

[Altira]

Well if any of that works or not... just picturing those scenes must have at least put a smile on your face.

Ummm this is soo good... Really it is! I swear, here you try it.

[mypuppy]

Skye,
You made me LOL with your post. And how very funny, I have also tried doing that with Princess many a times in the past when she would get picky about eating, and it didnt work. It only works if my little one does it, and then she eats. Well that's her little sissy, so guess same difference--it's that sibling rivalry, gets them every time. But glad Im not the only one who's tried that without getting their face chewed off...LOL.

Belly rubs to Shysie and hoping she is much better by now.

xo Jeanette and Princess

Hi Cindy and Penny girl! haaaaaa:D xo

[addy]

Hi Cindy,
Trying to catch up on Penny.:) I am so sorry her tummy is not fairing well with the new antibiotic. I know how bad mine gets when I have to take them.

You'll make it through.

Sending hugs to you and Penny

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Leslie, Susan, Melissa, Julie, Skye, Janis, Addy and everyone

Thank you all for checking in on Penny

Skye - tooooooo funny:D :D:D yes I have been on the floor - acting as though I am loving it - a piece of chicken breast for her one for me:D - she was being so fussy - she does take things easier from my son - like Princess does with her little sis - I think its because Penny always knows I am sneaking in a pill:D He went back to college today:( so no help from him BUT........

As of yesterday she started to eat alot better - still on the antibiotic and the gabapentin - she probably needed to adjust to both of them - today she started the Previcox - alittle nervous about that - she did do well on the Rimadyl (meaning tolerating it - no stomach issues) God only knows what its doing to her kidneys and Liver:eek:) but each med is different - hate these types of meds but I want her to be able to get around and be comfortable--We picked the meds up at Ocean State today -$57.00 for 14 pills and she has to take 3/4 of a pill a day :eek: (but I found them on line for $135.00 for 60 pills) the orthopedic put them up for her and okayed it with the IMS cause she needed to start today - she did a 6 days wash out and she was in so much pain - so fingers and paws crossed that her tummy is ok with it. She started the senior food and seems to like it alot --

Again Thanks everyone for being there once again:):) She will go for all her blood work soon

hugsssss xoxo

[addy]

Cindy, I am so glad to hear Penny is eating today!!!

I also think we should make it official and welcome Cindy as a new Forum Host. We love you and thank you for being such an active, caring member and taking that one step further.

Congrats!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

love,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Cindy, I am so glad to hear Penny is eating today!!!

I also think we should make it official and welcome Cindy as a new Forum Host. We love you and thank you for being such an active, caring member and taking that one step further.

Congrats!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

love,
addy

DITTO to what she said! :D

[Skye]

whootwhoot!!!!!!! get it Cindy!!!!!!! so many will be blessed to have such a caring host!!!!! paw fives! from my girls.

[Lady's mom]

It took Lady only about 4 days to start to feel the full effect of previcox, and then she started prancing around like a puppy, with her tail high in the air and wagging-the difference was amazing.

She has continued to improve for several days, but is very lethargic today, probably because I had to give her acepromazine last night to get through severe weather. It always takes awhile to wear off and I hate to use it, but it's necessary sometimes.

Hope penny starts to improve soon.

[Cyn719]

Awwww -so sweet - thank you Addy Leslie and Stormee:o:) Your kind words are very much appreciated!

love and hugsssss to you and your furbabies xoxoxo

[Cyn719]

Hi

Just an up date on Penny

She really didnt want to eat this AM but she had to - she needed to take her antibiotic and her second previcox ( vet wants me to give it AM and I gave it PM last night - so I held off to feed her till noon - I did what Skye mentioned - again on the floor telling her how good the food was - acting like I was loving it - well I got her to eat half -

Ladys mom - that you for the info - hope it kicks in soon with Penny

What I notice is when Penny starts a new medication she pants alot!! ok is it the meds - it makes me think the cushings is kicking in - but shes not eating - she did this with the panting when she started the gabapentin - well shes panting up a storm right now and was not yesterday -- well going to try to feed her again in a half hr - hope shes really hungry from not eating much today Thanks for listening:)

love and hugssss xoxo

[Cyn719]

Penny had dinner. Ate almost all of it. She panted all night. Gave her the gabapentin. Sleeping now. Keeping a close eye on her. Xo

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

Glad to hear Penny had dinner and slept the night. Those things mean alot to us, don't they?

Does Penny get her Pepcid twice a day? Sorry, I did not remember so I wondered if that would help her tummy with the meds. Maybe you already discussed that. :o:o:o

Our slimy mess of a front yard from the warm front is now an ice scating rink:rolleyes:

Have a good day and hugs to Penny. Hope things go well today.

love,
addy

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, really glad Penny is starting to eat. Right now I'm just picturing you on the floor trying to act like you are getting her food! Do you put a collar on also??!! :p

Luckily I have Sadie to help when Rebel is being stubborn, he will sit with his nose in the air until Sadie is done eating and she hovers. He then decides that he would rather eat it than let Sadie have any of it.. Stubborn spoiled brat!

[Cyn719]

Addy yes she slept well. She got up once to go out. She takes the pepcid once a day maybe I should go to two? She has been spitting up a little bit of water after she drinks but she's been drinking a little more also.

Melissa that's what I am doing wrong! I forgot to put on the collar when I get on the floor!!! Hahahahaha Well she did eat on her own today about three quarters of it:)

Right now she is taking a sun bath. It is 50 right now! Heat wave! Opened all windows and it feels good! Especially since my hot flashes are so bad:eek: talk soon

Love and hugs xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Hot flashes!!! :eek: I remember those! One of my history professors stopped in the middle of one of his long lectures one day to ask if I was ok. I had gone beat red and sweat was pouring down my face - hot flash. I just grinned and told him I was fine - just a power surge so he better get going! :p

[Cyn719]

Leslie Too funny:D:D::D

I know that feeling all to well. I was checking out at cvs sweating red face and the sweat was dripping down my face and the the said mam are you ok? Oh just chipper I said and ran out of there:o:rolleyes: I have been getting them since 32 and at 50 still have them! The first 7 years was ok on meds then took me off and it's been hell:eek: on and off the patch. Went off dec and I need it back!!

[Rebelsmom]

Heat wave? 50 degrees? I wold have the heat on in my house not opening windows!! :o

[Cyn719]

:o:o:o:o:o

50 feels good compared to the 5 that is has been! I went to a wake yesterday and people were in from Florida and all they were saying was omg we can't wait to go home! This is awful!!! :o:o:o. Is it 80 there today?:(

[Rebelsmom]

No not 80 it's only 79 :)

[mypuppy]

HAAAAAAAAA, that's too funny Cindy and Melissa, a collar. Hope it works. So glad Penny ate a bit more. As I said, I can gladly share Princess's appetite with Penny and few others here who are not eating...LOL.

Melissa, I too saw 50 degrees and ran to turn off heat and open all windows like Cindy. I love the fresh air;)

Cindy, sorry for your hot flashes:mad: That's awful. Hope they pass.

Love you all...xo Jeanette

[Cyn719]

Melissa :D:D:D so sorry you are having a cool day!:D:D:D
Xo

Jeanette

Nice crisp air and bright sun. Penny came in got a treat and right back out!! She will be out all day!:)
Xo

[Bailey's Mom]

Okay-well it's 52 here, very sunny, no wind and absolutely gorgeous, especially for January!
Hot Flashes-I only had a handful of them, but last month I got back on the estrogen. I was having HFs at 11pm every night all of a sudden. It's so controversial. I hate that. I do think I feel better with it. I had a hysterectomy early, so I've been on them forever.....and they say that is not good.

Happy Tuesday everyone!
-Susan

[Cyn719]

Susan

I hear you! I know it's not good for you but you can't function or sleep or go in public! So have to take the estrogen. I agree. Well I now use the estrogen patch. Doctor said better to absorb thru the skin rather than go thru the liver. They will find something wrong eventually with that too!:D

Hugssssss xoxo

[Cyn719]

Night update. She ate dinner. Just about all of it. But she seems uncomfortable tonight. She is letting out loud groans. Husband said he could hear them from the other room:eek: today was her third day on previcox she got around ok maybe it needs a little more time for it Lady's mom said it took four days to kick in. Vet also said some dogs do better on rimadyl so do better on previcox. So we will see. Her bloodwork is next tuesday.

Hugssssss xo

[Bailey's Mom]

YaaaaHoooooooooo.........Penny ate!!
I would not be at all surprised if the groaning is due to eating and her stomach had shrunk a little in size. Soon after we got home with Bailey from Alabama, one night she had a larger than normal meal. I don't remember why. I think maybe it was when it was still very tough to get her to eat. She likes to climb up on the back of the chair or sofa and sit on my head.....or my neck. She was whimpering quietly that night. I know that's what caused it.

YOU GO PENNY!!!!

[Cyn719]

Question

Penny's goes for a blood profile Tuesday. Does that cover all she needs? Like thyroid glucose ? Does it check liver kidneys pancreas? Any input would be great. Just want everything covered at once. Don't want to miss anything if something is going on. I know the vet said profile but sometimes they don't check enough the first time and then they call you back in a week for more! More money:eek: Thanks :). Hugssss to all. Xo

[marie adams]

So glad Penny ate a good meal!!! :)

I think the blood panel covers most of what you asked, but ask them if there might be a more involved blood panel and what you think you would be looking for.

I tried to not take Maddie to the vet much in her life, but of course at the end she had more blood drawn than in all her 12 years put together; so that means I don't really know for sure if it covers everything. :confused:

[StarDeb55]

Cindy, you need to ask exactly what a "blood profile" is, that term tells me absolutely nothing. What you probably need to have done is a CBC, urinalysis, super chemistry panel, & a T4. A lot of vets do what they call a "senior wellness panel" which should probably include all of the above, but you need to ask. Assume nothing!!!!


Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

Question

Penny's goes for a blood profile Tuesday. Does that cover all she needs? Like thyroid glucose ? Does it check liver kidneys pancreas? Any input would be great.

The only test that will show how the pancreas is doing is the spec PL test. There are different types of blood profiles, some cover amylase and lipase but these markers are not good indicators of how the pancreas is, only the spec PL is specific to the lipase from the pancreas.

[Cyn719]

Thanks Marie Debbie and Lori:)

I am talking with the vet tomorrow - I will ask her what she is running and make sure all of what you said is covered - she really needs a complete check - her blood has not been done in awhile and I want to make sure nothing is going on - she will have the urine check a week after she finishes the antibiotic.

Hugsss xo

[Cyn719]

Penny was having a very restless evening. I was going to give her the gabapentin at 1000pm then I thought maybe this is what is making her like this. She is always very tired and has not much interst in eating and just not right. So I figured I would call vet in AM to see if I can go back to tramadol but she started groaning very loud and stretching her legs constantly. So I just called Ocean State and the ER vet said there was no wait period that I could give her the tramadol now. she got it at 1215am. Hope it kicks in and gives her some relief from whatever this is. Now to figure out what is going on?? The decrease in eating, being very tired, moving very slow , groaning, stretching and panting as soon as she get ups to walk. Will have this chat with IMS. Nervous. Hope AM is better?? It's been half hour no relief yet

[Skye]

I thought a thyroid needed something different than the T4, isnt there a T6? or something? i cant recall just off hand what that is, but i know to check thyroid really good there was something additional...ugh, will try and find it. sorry.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

How is our Penny girl this morning? I hope she, and you, had a restful night and that your day has started out on a much better note.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Skye I will ask vet when she calls today thanks:)

Leslie

Not a restful nights sleep but thats ok - couldnt sleep keep checking on the baby - gave her one and a half of the tramadol - she finally settled down about 2 hrs later - went out once - this am she went out for and hour or so and I just fed her - she ate ok - prob hungry from not eating - used chicken broth - chicken - half cup kibble and tbsp of canned with her previcox and antibiotic and she ate - orthopedic and IMS calling today - she cant do the two stairs to come in the house - get back to you soon Thanks:)

[addy]

Poor baby,

I was reading somewhere (Bark maybe?) that if our babies don't want to eat sometimes if we put their food on a plate like our food has and put their plate with food on the table next to ours while we eat (or pretend to eat) and then put their plate of food down for them, they will sometimes eat.

Now that may encourage plate licking but in my book, if it works, who cares?

I just thought of you when I read the article.

love,
addy

[Rebelsmom]

Seems like that could be worth a shot Addy, I know mine would rather have what they think I have. But as long as Rebel has something that tastes like chicken he is good. That boy is nuts over chicken even knows the word! You could just say chicken and he spazzes!

I am hoping they can give you some ideas today on how to make her more comfortable and help her mobility.

Sending you lots of love, hugs and rubs!

[Cyn719]

I will try the dish and yes the chicken and broth did work this AM - just go off the phone with orthopedic and hes trying to figure why now she cant come up 2 steps - she did before -- trying to see if the groaning - stretching and not getting comfy is from the arthritis or something else?? To much going on - is the antibiotic making he sick? Is it the gabapentin making her to drowsey and feeling yuckie - is it the pit tumor:eek: is her stomach upset from the previcox - what steps do I take first?? IMS didnt call yet - to many didnt things it could be. Also any reason to why she doesnt pant until she gets up to walk??

[Harley PoMMom]

Panting can be a sign of pain, stress, or anxiety. My Bear, when he is stressed pants so heavily that it makes his breathing very labored. :eek:

Sending soothing and calming energy your way. Tons of hugs and love to you and sweet Penny.

[Squirt's Mom]

My uneducated guess on the panting is that it is from pain when she moves. :(

[Rebelsmom]

Sounds like maybe pain could be causing the panting to me also..

Hope you get it figured out soon.

[Cyn719]

Lori Leslie and Melissa 3 votes with pain we will go with that

Ugg poor girl but I will look at the positives

she did eat this AM
she did get up when my dad came
and she did bark to have some of his sandwich

all good signs --

my dad said the way she looked just now is like she looked when her cushings was active - he said she looks like she has possessed looking eyes:D:eek: Still waiting for the IMS - ortho left me with keeping her on the gabapentin and tramadol :eek: I will have to carry her she will be so drugged - One day off gabapentin and she is alittle more awake - so maybe half gabapentin and a tramadol - will discuss with IMS

[lvasilio]

I will try the dish and yes the chicken and broth did work this AM - just go off the phone with orthopedic and hes trying to figure why now she cant come up 2 steps - she did before -- trying to see if the groaning - stretching and not getting comfy is from the arthritis or something else?? To much going on - is the antibiotic making he sick? Is it the gabapentin making her to drowsey and feeling yuckie - is it the pit tumor:eek: is her stomach upset from the previcox - what steps do I take first?? IMS didnt call yet - to many didnt things it could be. Also any reason to why she doesnt pant until she gets up to walk??
My basset did this when she had a bowel obstruction. Has she been going regularly? Sometime antibiotics and other meds wreak havoc on the system.

[Bailey's Mom]

There is so much going on with Penny and I doubt this will mean much, but I put it out there for what it's worth. When Bailey isn't eating....she still comes and goes with it sometimes I bring the bowl of food upstairs where I work on the computer. She always has a water bowl up here and she has eaten her food once everything settles down. That's for the wet stuff. The dry stuff I have started carrying to a couple of different spots in the house. I am finding she will eat it while I'm getting ready for bed, if I spread it out on the bathroom floor. She won't eat it out of a bowl, but if it seems kind of like a game, she does...so I try to keep some in the bathroom. Now I am also trying to keep some beside my bed. Sometimes....before we go to sleep, she will eat some and sometimes when we're being lazy in the AM she'll eat some. Again...it has to be kind of spread out.

She weighs in between 10 and 11 pounds now, which I think is her adult weight. She has picked up some extra skin, so I am trying to be careful/mindful of how much I give her in the way of treats. She may be under eleven pounds, but she feels like 20, if I have to carry her around. I am sure this violates every training rule there is, but when we get to day #3 without eating, I'm just glad to get her to eat SOMEthing nutritious. She'd eat lams' ears all day every day if I let her.

Just another perspective.
-susan

[Cyn719]

Thanks Susan for sharing your secrets:) All suggests welcome!! She at tonight - not what she usually eats but about half so that was better:)

I have been waiting for the IMS all day called twice they said shes in with patients will call - NOT!!! I just called there and she left 15 mins ago - really!!! I just want to know how she wants to handle this - when and what is she looking to do for blood work and should I give the gabapentin or just use the tramadol - ugg another night where I have to call the shots!!!

Well right now she is not groaning but I catch her just starring alot - she did that all day -- what could that be?? Dementia??

[Altira]

ugg another night where I have to call the shots!!!

IMO there is no other worse feeling then that!!! I'm so sorry they are putting you thru this. If things weren't already bad enough for you!

((((((((((BIG HUGS))))))))))))

[Cyn719]

Janis. Crazy. I did say I need to speak to her ASAP! I didn't want to give both pills the poor thing would not be able to get up she would be so tired! Well I just called it and gave her the tramadol and held off on the gabapentin. I have so many questions for her! She still is moving so slow and the starring into space is freaking me out. She does it a lot. I read up on doggie dementia and she fits some of the symptoms. Hope she sleeps well. Thanks:)

Hugssssss xo

[Altira]

You are having a scary night. Are you here hanging out here?

[Cyn719]

Thanks again Janis and Stormee:) xo

[Cyn719]

Ok Ocean State call - not the vet the tech - ok she called to get the info and I said ok I will give it to you but I need Dr Lester to call back - Nope she did not tech did - I told the tech on the first call

Penny lost interest in food - but was almost normal today
sleeps all the time
panting alot
drinking is normal a little much but not all the time
walking seems like a real effort - back end and legs very weak
is gabapentin making her so tired she can function
is she spacey from the gabapentin
did she lose appetite from gabapenti
could the antibiotic cause any of this - maybe the appetite loss but any of the rest? read somewhere UTI meds can really throw a dog off????
she stares into space alot
seems alittle confused on normal things
only wants to be outside or in the basement
and orthopedic said to wean of gabapentin and give tramadol

so the tech calls back and said - well her opinion is different - just stop gabapentin and start tramadol -- which I did do on my own two nights ago
said if I want any more answers we need a MRI a ultrasound and chest xrays -- she said thats all she can offer - :confused:

Ok I get it but I cannot affort that - just the MRI is like $1300:eek: I said can she do some bloodwork the tech said no she needs to do diagnostic testing now --- now what do I do??

Well she did eat alot better today
she has really lost alot of her hearing
eyes bad but vet said not really bad
slept mostly all day
she just went to jump on low couch and didnt make it:eek:
she was laying in yard with the wind gushing and would not come in for 45 mins - and went I finally said come! - she got up and just look at me through the fence like she didnt know how to get out - but today she was more alert not much but more than the last week or so -- had one little energy burst and ran around for a couple of misn
but now she has been in for 10 mins and is sound asleep again:(

so no more gabapentin
tramadol at night and up to twice during the day - she will really be in coma then:eek:
Adequan once a week
Dasaquan 1 - 2 times a day
Previcox one a day -
Pepcid twice a day while on the antibiotic
Cephalexin for another week (took 14 already)

Any input - the vet didnt even talk to me
does my dog have dementia - is something else going on - really am I suppose to figure this out?? I know the test will help but if you cant afford - and really if I did have the money and saw her put. tumor is bigger what can be done - she is 12 -- if we did ultrasound it will show prob one gland enlarged or two or a tumor? what will they do for her at 12 and with all her problems? I am just grasping right now - do you think I should demand bloodwork - ok I am going to stop talking so you can answer:) sorry needed to vent
hugsss xoxo

[Skye]

Hey Hun, you hang in there, and you just vent away. your safe venting here. you have every right to.
here is my input...
yes 12 is senior but our kids have been known to stay with us well past 12.
AND if issue is found and fixed wonder what kind of improvement she would show? i mean she might be like a little spring chicken!
Lets remember....when were sick....nothing is right with life. And then drugs cloud our minds and put us in foggy slow motion land, ever have any speak to you when life is so crappy and feel horrible, and your looking at them and hear them...but its like the pain has control of your comprehension. and your left standing there with this huh? wha? expression, and has you spinning in the house asking yourself, why did i come in here....what as i needing...why did i come in this room...what was i going to do....ugh...back to other room then remembering oh!! that is right. (know what i mean

next...
WHY is the doctor not taking time to speak to you....makes me question their intergity, care and passion for what they are doing, and when they have been told you NEED them...leave. what are your thoughts of finding new doctor?

When was last blood work up and urine workup done?
i would do blood urine and u/s
THEN see where further investigation is warranted.

For you.........
One large bottle of wine
one hot bath with TONS of bubbles
candles everywhere
jim brickman Cd

from the texas girls....hugs hugs hugs hugs.

[Cyn719]

Skye. You made so much sense! :)
I Get it fore sure
I don't know why the vet cant talk to me
I think it's because she feels as though all she can offer me is testing right now and she's not going to waste her time getting on the phone to tell me that and she knows right now I can't afford test like an MRI. So it's like she doesn't have time for me if I can do what she is saying.
Penny had urine done just over 2 weeks ago has a UTI now has been on antibiotic for two weeks a week to go. Last bloodwork I think was sept .... Need to check
Tonight she is more alert.... She's actually awake now... Having treats:). Xo

[Cyn719]

Correction her antibiotic is cefpodoxime proxetil I saw the side effects they are rapid breathing muscle weakness decreased appetite and not to use with antiacids because antibiotic may not absorb properly ugh. Didn't know that!:eek: .???

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-
It sounds to me like she's a little drugged up. Can you make a consult appt with the vet? I think sometimes they feel like they're not getting paid if they do much over the phone. I think you should ask her about what to do now, since you can't afford the testing. Is there anything else that could be done?

I just assumed Palmer would make it until 15. Or maybe a little hope was in there. Our first dog, a pekepoo, lived 17.25 years. Palmer had turned 13 only recently when he died. That's a BIG difference for two similarly sized dogs, I think. We never really know and there are no guarantees.

If you switch to another vet, that vet may want similar tests run. Plus he/she will have to get up to speed on Penny. It's a rough position to be in.

I'd try to get an office visit. If that can't/won't happen, I think I'd just let the current drugs run their course and see how things are after they end.

As I said, it's a tough position to be in.

My thoughts are with you.

Susan

[Cyn719]

Thanks Susan. So true we never know. I went from my vet to a IMS hoping she could help but it's like a dead end. The tech said testing was all the vet could offer me....I would of expected at least bloodwork. Let's see how she does over the weekend with the gabapentin lot of her system.

Hugssss xoxo

[Cyn719]

Well its 245am and she came in my room to get me . Wanted to go out. I let her out he just laid down! Really! Then I had to really get firm and tell her to go do good girl and she did then she went to lay down again.... And she laid down like a horse....front legs went down first then back. Like she didnt know what to do?? Then just laid head down like nite! I had to o out and get her and she didn't want to come? She came in had a cookie now she is swallowing a lot and her mouth has lots of silva?? Upset umm?? Looks like she's chewing and swallowing. Vet left me up in the air? Upset tummy?? Pain??dementia? Be a long nite. Be back later in am. Xo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
I'm trying to get caught up a little bit. Sorry to hear you're having some trouble and that Penny had a rough night. I wish I had some advice to offer. It sounds like she did have some kind of upset stomach to me...with all the saliva. I hope you both got some rest after your 3 a.m. event.

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

I am really sorry to hear of Penny's issues. I understand the vet frustration too, as you know. Zoe just finished two weeks of cefpodoxime. The one thing I noticed with Zoe (who has totally different issues then Penny) but I remember, tummy wise and stool wise she was okay but it almost seemed like she was not absorbing her trilostane as well. When we finished the two weeks she went back and forth from being constipated to loose stools and had a lot of bloating.

Is Penny pooing okay? Does her tummy seem bloated?

Sending love and really big hugs.
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Julie and Addy:)

Addy yes her tummy does seem swollen these last few days going to see if she will eat now and going again to check her stool be back xo

[Cyn719]

Sorry it took so long to get back - went my my friend (the onw with breast cancer) to see her son swim at Roger Williams Univ - just got back long day --

Ok so we all know how penny has been -
well today she ate good
her poops are normal
she only pees and poops in a special area - its like her own little private bathroom :D but
today I saw her peeing on the grass where she never ever goes - wierd
she has lots of energy
playing with her stuffed bear and rolling on her back:)
oh and every nite she is barking at the fence looking thru it and digging - we keep checking and me and my husband said she is just seeing things - dementia - well she just did it again so me and my son ran out and looked again - across the street on the side of the neighbors a huge grey beautiful cat!!! so that part was not dementia and I guess her eye sight is good -- that cat must come every night to see her:D
so back to the point --- so did the gabapentin get out of her system and she feels good?? I think so --- but she is digging at the closet for treats which she did with the cushings which could now be a possibility - and Addy maybe the swollen belly is from the meds and upset and/or the cushings - but
why does she do so well with the cushings not being active but as soon as we give her new meds the cushings kicks in - weird isnt it???Glad she feels better at the moment?? With Penny its a roller coaster ride that I want to get off now!!!:D
for now
stay off the gabapentin
finish up antibiotic and repeat urine a week after that
one to one and a half tramadol at bedtime
previcox with breakfast
pepcid twice a day for now (does anyone knw if its ok to give pepcid with the antibiotic --if not I will call IMS - she never said)
Dasaquin
Adequan

When she goes for urine I will have them do blood work - since IMS said she only wants just diagnostic testing- I guess i will have to tell them what blood work I want - crazy!!

Thanks for listening hugssssss xo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-

Glad to hear Penny is having a good day, that she is eating and pooping normally, and that she can see! :D

It certainly is a roller coaster ride, isn't it? We are having the warm up then refreeze here, so Hannah hates being in the snow because she can't get her footing. We are back to the battle of trying to get her to pee on a regular basis. It's always something...

But at any rate, seeing Penny feeling good is great!:)

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Do not take cefpodoxime at the same time as antacids (e.g., Tums, Maalox, Rolaids, others) or other stomach acid reducers (e.g., Tagamet, Axid, Pepcid, Zantac, Prilosec, Prevacid, Aciphex, Nexium, Protonix). This may decrease the absorption of cefpodoxime.

Cindy- I found this for humans. Maybe talk to your vet.

I'm glad Penny had a good day. Maybe her bloating was water retention?:confused::confused:

hugs and love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Thanks Addy maybe water retension maybe bloating from being upset - Ohhhh I have been giving the pepcid am and pm Im going to check with the vet - they should ask what the dog is on or they should check her chart - usually is the same for humans and dogs of how its absorbed -- well figures it was the regular vet who prescribed it lo lol I will look into it -- thanks:)

hugs and love to you and the babies xoxo

[addy]

well, it says at the same time so maybe if it is like four hours before or after it is okay. The antibiotic is once a day right? Could you give it mid day with food?

Were hangin I'm happy with Zoe's progress with the muzzle. When I put it on and clasp it and then take it of, I praise her and rapid feed about ten pea size pieces of turkey. She is impressed:D:D:D:D She loves a jackpot!!!!;);););););)

I hope you have a good day with Penny again tomorrow. Hang in there kiddo, you are doing a wonderful job.

love,
addy and the "kids"

[Cyn719]

Thanks Addy:)

I will call Ocean State tomorrow - she take the antibiotic once a day - yes if I have to I can seperate it - no problem --

So glad she did so good with the muzzle - good girl Addy!!:D

They do love those special treats - works like a charm!!!!

give the babies hug and kisses from me and Penny xo

hugsssss xoxo

[Spiceysmum]

Hi Cindy,

My dog, Brin, has had a lot of serious problems this last two weeks and one thing I came across in my research was MEGAESOPHAGUS. This wasn't the cause of his problems but he had some of the symptoms and during an endoscopy it was found he does have something wrong with his esophagus not working quite right. One thing that came up in research which Brin does not get is excess saliva and swallowing. I notice that Penny gets this sometimes and thought it might be worth you looking into. Just another thing to add to the list of ideas!

Linda

[Cyn719]

Hi Linda

Thanks so much for the information:)

I will read up on that

Love and hugs xo

[Cyn719]

I know how hard it is for Penny always but she is really having a hard time keeping her back end - today she is just walking with back end very low and trys to sit but cannot. She cannot come up the two stairs at all today. My plan is to finish up this antibiotic which will be done next sunday - ugh 21 days is soooo long - wait a week repeat the test and hopefully gone - in the mean time should I do all the blood work now or wait till we know the infection is cleared up?? Its so expensive I just want to do it once. Also since the ACTH test hasnt been done since ?? Sept? I have to check my Chemo brain kicked in again:D:D should I have it done again?? With all her issues - some days she seems like cortisol is low some days she shows symptoms to make me think it is high?? IMS is no help right now since she is stuck on saying she can only offer testing!! Its hard working with a vet who doesnt know much about this and an IMS who offers nothing but testing - its alittle furstrating - like I said if I could afford testing it would be done just to know exactly whats happening. Also still questing how well the previcox is working compared to the Rimadyl - I will give it another week or so.
Thanks for listening:):) hugs xoxo

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

I only have a minute but wanted to share a recent article I read about laser treatment for elderly and arthritic dogs. Apparently it is quite effective and I am hearing more and more about it. You may want to talk to your vet to see if there is anybody in your area that has a machine and is willing to share some information on their success rate.

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-education-series/class-iv-laser-sheds-new-light-on-treatment-of-elderly-animals.aspx

[Spiceysmum]

Hi Cindy,

I really don't want to confuse the issue even more but very closely linked with the megaesophagus is myasthenia gravis which leads to alot of weakness in the back legs. I looked into this for Brin but I think his is more neurological even though some of the symptoms are similar. Hoping Penny is feeling a bit better today.

Linda x

[Cyn719]

Linda

I will look into that - wow her back end got so much worse in the past 3 days - she actually limps now and goes into a sitting positions more often than laying down where before this she never sat only laid down - weird - but I will look into that for sure!! Thanks:):)

hugssss xoxo

[marie adams]

Oh Cindy, I think you need some hugs!!! ((((HUGS))))

I know how hard it is to see Penny like this and not be able to do much--you are doing the best you can so stay strong!!! :)

Maddie didn't have any other issues other than getting older and the Cushings. I think the Cushings just added to the getting older; if she hadn't gotten the Cushings I think she would be here still, but then it was the cancer in her hind leg that got her so who knows. :confused:

I wish I had some answer or ideas for you, but looks like Linda has some good one to check into.

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-
I'm sending hugs too. My vet here is using the laser treatment Glynda mentioned. I just found out. It is supposed to be highly successful. I heard that many vets who do acupuncture are trying it in conjunction with acupuncture as well. At my regular vet it is a little cheaper than acupuncture. I may try it. Maybe even acupuncture is something to consider trying?

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Thanks Glynda, Marie and Julie so much:)I am talking to m vet tomorrow to ask about he new treatment and getting her back in for another appt.

She has been groaning so much but when I gave her the tramadol the other night she seemed to stop. Tonight she's groaning again so I gave her 1-1/2 tramadol and now she's groaning more and louder! She limped so bad today. Now this is new has only been limping like this a few days. She is stretching her legs when she groans but maybe it's something else?? It's so hard to listen to this:(
Thanks again everyone. Hugssss to all oxoxoxp

[addy]

Hugs from me too Cindy. I'm sorry Penny is having such a hard time.

I wish I had words of wisdom for you. I can only offer BIG HUGS.

I know how easy it is to get down when we have to watch them suffer. We feel so helpless.

Try to find a ray of hope and hang on to it with all your might.

Love,
addy

[labblab]

Dear Cindy,

I, too, am so sorry that Penny is having these troubles! I know I have been "quiet" for a while on your thread, because I just don't know much of anything at all about the various painkillers. But I am still there with you, in spirit, every day :o. And I can definitely beam you my healing thoughts and hugs. So here they come -- being sent to both you and sweet Penny.

I so hope that she feels better soon.
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Sweetie,

I am so sorry Penny is having such a hard time. It has been such a blessing in my life, I had so hoped the Gabapentin would help her, too. :(

Please let us know what the vet says. You know we are with you, hanging over your shoulder, wrapping you in our arms, surrounding you both with all our love and hope.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[mypuppy]

Dear Cindy,

Ugh, Im so sorry for your poor Penny girl. Doesnt seem fair. If we can take the pain for them, I know we would in a heartbeat. The wondering what is going on with her must be so frustrating, to say the least. Wish there was more we can do to help your girl. I hope you vet has more definitive answers for you. In the meantime will be keeping you and your girl in our thoughts and prayers for some relief.

We love you both dearly...

Tight hugs...xo Jeanette

[Rebelsmom]

Cindy, so sorry Penny is not getting any relief. I hope they can come up with a new treatment plan tomorrow for you.

Sending you lots of love and comfort.

[Cyn719]

Thank you my friends - Penny is putting up a good fight - its sad - but I feel as though she is still happy - she is eating now and thats a good sign - her legs and back end is going to do her in - she still wants her treats - she greets everyone - so I need to work on pain management and really put the Cushings on the back burner - maybe when I have all the bloodwork done I will throw a ACTH in there just to see where we are - I to wished the gabapentin worked - and I cant say it didnt - she wasnt limping as much on it but she slept 24/7 on it and was not alert and lost her appetite - but when I talk to the orthopedic I am going to see if I can add maybe half of a capsule into her once a day - the 100 mg wiped her out but will 50 do anything - but we wont know if we dont try - with the one and a half tramadol in her last night 15mg she slept all nigth - she seemed alittle better this am - just when she stands those legs cant hold the back end up and now the arthritis is bad in front legs and her little toes are going every which way:( Her front paws are so flat footed toooo! Its just so hard to see her struggle to get from one point to the other.
I appreciate everyones concern-love-support and hugs:) and so does Penny:):) xoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-

I am sorry it is so rough for both you and Penny now. I hope your vet can give you some answers and some guidance.

Hugs,
Susan

[Cyn719]

Thanks Susan

I know I'm grasping at whatever I can but my hope is to find something that relieves the pain so she can be comfy:) xoxo

[Rebelsmom]

Thinking of you both today. Let me know what happens..

[Cyn719]

Melissa Thank you so much for all the information you got for me:) I am still waiting for the vet - she is ok right now - she ate breakfast - her leg is just shaking non stop and if I touch her leg or lower back she twitches alot - he will prob see her

hugsssss xoxo

[addy]

((((((((MORE BIG HUGS)))))))))))

Prayers too, Cindy

love,
addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Count me in for a hug!

[jmac]

Cindy-
I just want you to know I have been thinking of you and Penny all day. Sending positive vibes your way...

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Penny is going to the orthopedic at 8am. Her leg is shaking and she's limping. She needs a lot of prayers. I don't know what else they are going to be able to do for her. I need my angels for this one. I am really worried:(

xo

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Cindy, we are here for you and sweet Penny, surrounding you both with our love, hugs, positive energy, and healing thoughts...lean on us, dear friend.

Love and more hugs,
Lori

[lvasilio]

Jake and I are praying for you as well. It just doesn't seem to end for you both.

[mypuppy]

prayers
and
tight
hugs
to
you
and
penny
girl.

Xo jeanette

[addy]

Dear Lord, please help our precious Penny.

I wish I could fly to Penny on wings of comfort and hope to wrap around her, those wings, to hold her tight, to heal her.

If I had a magic wand, I would surely use it tonight.

If I had a wish, I would use it for Penny tonight.

If I had an answer, I would give it to you tonight.

I have none of these things so I can only offer my love, my hope, my unwavering support to you and Penny.

love,
addy

[jmac]

Oh Cindy,

I am so sorry Penny and you are struggling. You and Penny will definitely be in my prayers tonight and tomorrow. We will all be there with you.

Hugs,

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

definitely thinking of you and Penny. Judi

[Cyn719]

Thank you to each and every Angel!! Your posts mean so much to me. I will feel each and every one of you in that exam room with us tomorrow!! Dr. Sweet call tonight to ask about her. He is glad he's seeing her in the AM.

? Is it the meds not working
Is she losing weight due to muscle wasting or ? Cushings She lost more weight! I can feel her spine and ribs! Skin over bones
Is it a cancer
Is it bone cancer
Did she tear something else
It it a disc

He said so many reasons
but I will post when I get home.

AGAIN THANKS TO EVERYONE. IT HELPS MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE:). Penny thanks you also:)

Love and hugs xoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

Dear Cindy & Penny-

We (Bailey and I)want you to know we are sending along our love and support also. I will anxiously look for your post tomorrow and hope that it has some promising, good news. If you see this before you go....and if you haven't done it already-write down all your questions so you don't forget any. Don't feel rushed when you are there. You and Penny deserve full attention until all of your questions are answered.

I am so sorry this is so rough. Soon you should have some answers. That's bound to be better than all the questions. (I hope).

Take care.
Hugs and love,
Susan

[Cyn719]

Susan and Bailey. Thanks so much for the love and support:). I am going to write down some things I dont wan to forget and all her meds. Thanks! Doing that now and going to try to sleep. She has been groaning but I think the tramadol kicked in.

Hugssss xo

[Spiceysmum]

Cindy,

Hope things go well today and you get some answers. I will be thinking of you and Penny.

Linda x

[jmac]

Cindy-

I am thinking of you and your sweet Penny...hoping you find a way to relieve her pain at your appointment today. If there is any chance it is a disc issue or some sort of back pain, I would consider trying acupuncture or the laser treatment Glynda mentioned. Hannah was in horrible shape when her back hurt (both times) and the acupuncture was amazing. It was like a different dog. I really hope you will at least find out the cause of Penny's problems and hurting. I'm sending big hugs and prayers your way and I'll check in on my lunch break.

Julie & Hannah

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

I'm sure you are waiting to see the vet already but wanted you to know that I am there with you along with the rest of the cush angels. I send you strength, hope, healing white light, prayers, and much love and many belly rubs.

Please let us know when you can.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Thank you for your thoughts and concern to all my Angels:)

Penny had a lump on her bad leg aspirated. It's fine.
He said yes arthritis is bothering her but he believes a lot of it is mechanical. The bad leg is dropping very low to the ground from the hock injury. Her leg is shaking from the position it is in for her to try and keep herself up. Before she was walking more on her toes of that leg now the leg is almost scraping the ground she she's in Another position. What to do

He thought he had a boot/ splint there to try on her to help her keep the leg up off the ground but not in her size
Going to make appt. with Healing Paws at a vet rehab center, Dr. Jeff Corey. Talk about a boot/splint, exercises to do at home to strengthen muscles in leg etc
Off previcox 3 to 5 days and back to Rimadyl . He thinks Maybe she did better on that.
Tramadol as needed for pain
Can try gabapentin again at half the dose
We will see from there

So the big concern it the back of the leg where the elbow is ( that's how I can describe it) is basically touching the ground and that's a big concern. Going to make the appt now.
From my heart I thank all my Angels for fluttering around me and Penny. I felt the warmth all around us. Really I truly do not know what I would do if I never found this forum. Thank God I did.

Sending each and everyone one of you lots of thank yous,love and hugsss from me and my girl!! Xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

[Rebelsmom]

Glad you got some answers today Cindy. Hope this can give Penny some relief and maybe the rehab will help her a lot.

Lots and lots of love.

[lvasilio]

What about one of those carts to help take the weight off the leg? They make them in different sizes and perhaps you can rent one where it may only be short term. Certainly they will know about that.
God bless both of you. It's so hard when you have to guess how they feel!
Jake and Lesley

[nibbles-mommy]

Cindy,

I have been praying for Penny for so long.

I have been lurking on this board for over a year. Never joined, just kept up with everyone. But today I really wanted to join to let you know there is another person pulling for and praying for Penny and yourself.

I am a frequent member of k9 diabetes forum. My dog Nibbles (16yo Beagle mix) was diagnosed with Cushings and Diabetes last February. Treated with vetoryl for a year until I stopped it last month.

His hind legs have been declining for awhile, but recently have gotten extremely worse. I read your thread for suggestions and ideas to bring to the vet. Nibbles had an appointment last night, and was put on Tramadol. He may also be experiencing canine cognitive disorder(?) as well.

[clydetheboosmom]

Cindy -

I always think of you because you live so close to me. I wanted to tell you that physical therapy helps with these injuries, too. There are several good ones for dogs in our area. Send me a message if you're interested, sweetie!

Lynne and Sampson

[Cyn719]

Lesley and Melissa. Thank you. :):)

Yes this place I called today has all of the stuff to help them. I will make an appt . I called I think they are closed today or he's busy so hopefully inill hear from them soon. Thanks so much:)

Love and hugs xo

[Squirt's Mom]

THE best, bar none!

http://eddieswheels.com/

[nibbles-mommy]

Also, I forgot to include in my post above:

I purchased the cart for Nibbles last week from handicapped pets but it just didn't work for. We returned it. They are quite expensive $399. But they have an area where user can resell, sometimes cheaper. If you wanted to look into that. And we also got the "Walk and Lift" harness (didn't work either). But Nibbles is built strangely.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Thank you nibbles mommy, Lynn and Leslie

Nibbles mommy Thank you so much for the prayers for my Penny. It's so awful when they can't get around but if your vet says ok the tramadol does help the pain and they get a good nights sleep.

Lynn. Aww thanks for thinking of us neighbor! Ok I will PM you for the info:)

Leslie. Going to check out that site now

Thanks Angels!! Xoxo

[Squirt's Mom]

Eddie's has been known to work with you on finances, too. They take carts that have been returned when no longer needed and revamp them for new clients. They have even done carts for rabbits, goat, and horses!

[nibbles-mommy]

That's really great that they work with you. To part with $460 was tough because we really don't have much extra. I'm hoping I'll get at least 80% back.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

At long last! Some answers! How wonderful. I'll be interested to hear how Penny does with the drug changes and if you decide to use the wheels. I think that is a great idea.

Still there with you.

Susan

[Cyn719]

Thanks Susan! Looking into everything. Dr. Corey called today and wants me to take her in for a consultation to see if the boot/splint and/or will exercise or therapy help??

She going to be on a wash out from the previcox for 5 days 3 if she can't handle it. Then back on the rimadyl. Hope something kicks in so this girl can get her back end up:)

Hugsss xoxo

[Altira]

Hi Cindy,

Just wanted to say hello and I think of you lots. You know where to find me or Stormee anytime. Mighty Lucky Penny to have you!

[Cyn719]

Update on Stormee is on her thread

[marie adams]

Yay Cindy!!! :D

Now you have an action plan--that must make you feel better.

I hope the change in meds help. Now you know what will help Penny better in the long run.

Sending ((((HUGS))))!!!!:)

[Cyn719]

Thanks Marie...hope we find the right dose that helps her and see what happens at therapy:)

Hugsssss xo

[jmac]

Hi Cindy,

I just wanted to check in on how Penny is doing today...hope she is doing okay and is relatively pain-free.

Julie & Hannah

[Cyn719]

Julie
Thanks so much for asking she is eating good. She is having gard time getting up and going into laying position. She is on her wash out so only med is tramadol at bedtime. She struggling but getting by.

Hugs to you and Hanna

[Maya]

Awwww I was just reading about poor Penny. I hope she feels better soon, god bless her!
Hugs from Leah and Maya

[Cyn719]

Thanks Leah

She tries to be so happy
She is eating so much better
Her issues are
The back legs not holding up
Only wanting to be outside or in the basement
Thought is was cause she wanted to be cool but it is cool
She is like a crazy lady - if I dont let her out or in the basement she freaks!! Now thats freaking me out!!!

whats going on?????

xo

[Casey's Mom]

If you go through Caseys thread you will see that there was a point where she would not come inside for love nor money. It was riduculous. I ended up letter her sleep outside (we have a fenced yard built for her) but had to make her come in when it started getting cooler. I think I had to drug her with some herbal meds to get her to sleep inside the first few nights. It was bizarre, I think in hindsight her body was really hot from the cortisol because that only lasted a month or maybe two can't remember now.

[Altira]

Cindy... I'm worried. How is Penny?

[Squirt's Mom]

Me, too. Time for an update on our sweet PennyPoo. ;)

[Cyn719]

Sorry I haven't updated. So many ups and downs with her. She ate good last night and this Am she ate ok and tonight ok but hubby went in yard after dinner and there was her whole dinner. Nothing stayed down. Ugh. Her tummy is rumbling now from hunger...gve her just aliitle chicken.....we will see what the am brings. Her walking seemed maybe a bit better but nothing like it was weeks ok. Weeks ok she favored those legs but something happened.....its alot of struggling now. Going to give her the tramadol. Be back in AM.

Need some prayers. My 53 yr. old cousin Steven with liver and colon cancer is being operated on tomorrow at Dana Farber in Boston, MA. Really isn't good. Thanks. Xo

[Harley PoMMom]

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Altira]

I'm so sorry I missed your last email. I feel terrible. I did so much want to talk with you. God this is so hard I know. You just can't stop looking for some glimmer of hope. :'(

Have you thought about giving her prednasone? I don't know if it's a good idea but I thought I'd mention it. It really did a lot for Mira. She could walk again.

[addy]

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) ))))))))))

sorry it is so hard, Cindy

love,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

HUGS!!!

For you and Penny both!

[labblab]

Hugs and prayers coming from me, too.

Marianne

[nibbles-mommy]

Hi again Cyndy and Penny,

Still wishing you guys well.

This is gonna be long but I wanted to explain a few things. And I didn't want to start a new thread because the Cushings is really a dead issue for us at this point.

At the vet last week, we had a long talk about everything going on with Nibbles. I told him I stopped the Vetoryl and at first he didn't seem thrilled. I explained to him that at 16yo I'm not going for quantity, but quality of life. And since his sugar wasn't greatly affected with the change, I was comfortable. he said of his leg weakness that he would normally give prednisone for this but since I stopped the Vetoryl, his cortisol is already creating a steroid like effect on him and it wouldn't help.

Just a brief history on him-
He was diagnosed with cushings in November 2010, we did the testing (ACTH) but didn't treat because I really didn't believe the diagnosis simply because he didn't exhibit many symptoms. He was really chunky, but he was always a big boy. Another reason for not treating, I had another dog, Casey, who was diagnosed a year earlier and she really didn't have not one symptom. She was lean, barely ate, beautiful thick black coat. So I really thought it was just a "go to" disease when all else failed.

Anyway, February 14, 2011 Nibbles started drinking and peeing alot so we took him in and he was diagnosed with diabetes. The vet also said the diabetes wouldn't be controlled if we didn't treat cushings too. So I was scared into Vetoryl. He was put on 60mg a day. He also went blind April 2011, which, I believe caused him to start walking in left circles. He also would barely eat, his legs started getting weaker and not drinking enough. He lost almost half his weight in a few months. Thank god he's stabilized now, but can't get him to gain a pound.

He did well until December when his sugar dropped and he had a very scary seizure. We brought him in and they did a stim test and cut his Vetoryl to 30mg a day.

I really felt the Vetoryl was causing some of the issues and decided (with the help of Natalie at k9 diabetes) to stop the Vetoryl.

His appetite came back after switching to Wellness canned and he started drinking normally. But his legs have just gotten worse. He can't walk unless I walk with him to stabilize him.

It really breaks my heart because he still has a lot of life in him and he is very peppy and high spirited. All he wants to do is walk and I can't do that for him. But what I have been doing is putting him between my legs and bending over and walking with him "I am his human wheelchair" and guess what-I'm free!!! He has resorted to sitting on his butt and spinning to get placed if necessary. He also doesn't sleep at night and screams for me to get up and walk him around. This started in December also, so I haven't really slept much since then. The vet said this could dementia, and it could, but I really think this not walking and blindness is the main culprit. He takes Tramadol 2 times a day and valium to sleep at night. i also just started Senilife, so we'll see how that works.

I still wonder if stopping the Vetoryl was a mistake, but I can't keep beating myself up and wondering "what if" I've done that for the past year and have come to the conclusion that I am doing the best I can for him.

I wish you guys alot of luck and will keep up with your thread to see if you found anything that works so I can try it!:)

____________________________________________

Administrative Note: I have gone ahead and established a new thread for Nibbles. Anyone who has thoughts or suggestions about Nibbles can now post replies directly on his thread:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3968

[marie adams]

Dear Cindy,

I hope all goes well for your cousin!!!

((((HUGS TO YOU & PENNY))))

[Cyn719]

Hi. Thanks Angels......They couldnt do surgery Something about bloodwork. will find out more latest.

Nibbles mom......thanks for sharing your story:) that's how I feel quality of life..... I just want her to be comfy....I don't want her to be in pain. Today....
Penny felt a bit better today. First time in a long time she came to the second floor to wake me up because she wanted me to go in my sons room and help her on the bed. It was so cute. She put her font paws on the bed and looked at me like to say ok I need a boost!!:D. I lifted her dead weight of 75 lbs onto the bed and asleep she went! She went for a tiny tiny walk and she ate this am good. Right now groaning..maybe she did to much..... We will see how tonight goes. It's definitely a roller coaster ride for sure!

Again that's fort the support! Hugs xoxo

[mypuppy]

Omg Cindy, that is just the sweetest thing, such a precious moment was well worth the 75 lb lift, huh. Amazing what we do for these babies. And I just love when they are in our beds, they seem to feel so much more comfy than in their own beds, don't they. Wow! I can't help but feel quite happy right now, although I know you don't feel she is out of the woods, just yet, but still, it's a bit of progress. Glad to hear. On another note, sorry your cousin was unable to get his surgery, ugh...Will continue to keep him, your sweet girl in my prayers.

Much love, tight hugs

xo Jeanette

[nibbles-mommy]

so glad penny is feeling alittle better. it's these little things that keep us going and so encouraging.

[Casey's Mom]

Hi Cindy, I love the story about Penny wanting on the bed and you helping her :) Hugs and more hugs coming your way.

[Cyn719]

Jeanette, nibbles mom and Ellen

Thank you! Love the cute moments!!

Penny is eating better. She seems to be walking a bit better still but very stiff when she gets up. Of course since the flurries stopped she outside in this cold weather ..... It's not good for her arthritis but I can't keep her in. She is strong headed for sure!:D

Love and hugs xo

[Cyn719]

So sad about Whitney Houston. So young.....She had an amazing voice and Bobbi Brown ruined her life!! So sad......basically she has been dead for years........we have to pray now for her beautiful daughter!

Rest in peace Whitney.

XO

[Casey's Mom]

Wow too young - what a shock. Such a talent gone to waste.

[Cyn719]

Yup 48 years old. What a shame. They said she was finally getting her self together. She was just going to do a movie Sparkle.......so sad.

[Cyn719]

OMG i cant believe it it never ends with Penny - I just said to Jeanette shes doing a bit better these last few days and guess what I just found?? Another broken K9 tooth - she had surgery last year to remove the other top K9 tooth now this one!!! Why do they break so easily?? Shes not chewing rawhide and since Christmas hasnt chewed her bully sticks - just soft twisties and dog cookies - she doesnt chew sticks or rocks!! Here we go again - surgery at Tufts - omg can she go thru this again??? I want off this roller coaster ride now!!! Needed to vent!!!!!

[jmac]

Hi Cindy-

That really stinks! Last spring I found one of Izzy's canine teeth on the floor! I used to lock them in the kitchen and I think she hated it so much she was chewing on the baby gate and ripped out a tooth. We had her dental shortly after, and somehow the root came out too, so they didn't have to do anything for it. My vet said that if it came out like that there was something wrong in the first place. So sorry to hear there is now something else. I know how horrible that feeling is. Good luck with this new issue...

Julie & Hannah

[Rebelsmom]

Hey Cindy, just checking in. So sorry to hear about Penny's tooth and I'm sorry I haven't been around. It has been a really busy week and weekend. I was reading though the posts and saw that Penny was doing better, I was really glad to see that. I don't what would cause the tooth issue, I haven't had to deal with that yet (knock on wood).. Sending you love from all of a sudden cold Fl ..

[Cyn719]

Hey Melissa. Glad all is ok with you:). It's freezing here!! Ugh suppose to warm up in a couple of days.

Julie
Thanks:). This poor girl lost 6 or 7 teeth already..one being the other upper k9 .....I feel so bad she's losing the other one:(. I hope she does ok with an operation now....hope she does ok not having either k9.

Hugs xo

[Casey's Mom]

Not nice :( poor Penny. This may sound like a dumb question but why do they need to take the other half out? Will she cut her mouth?

[Bailey's Mom]

I think the answer to that...is risk of infection.

[Altira]

My Mira hated being caged up and broke both her k9 teeth off trying to get out. But she had neither of them pulled. The concern is weither or not you can see the pink pulp in the inside of the tooth. If you can then it might be causing her pain. I could on Miras but the deturmad that she wasn't in pain. Can you see a pink spot there? Does she flinch in pain if you flick it with your fingernail?

[Cyn719]

Ellen, Susan and Janis

The other k9 tooth had nerve exposed so took her to dentist said it had to come out cause yes is would turn into infection then there would be more problems. I am assuming this is the same cause she will not let me near it. Maybe this is why she didn't eat cause I really don't know when it happened. Her breath smelled....that's why I checked it today. The dentist will check it...maybe it won't have to come out but the pointy part is missing and a sliver of it is missing up the side. I put my hand on the outside of her mouth she quivers and when she was laying down she was shaking like her head and neck. Talking to dentist around 9 to 10 tomorrow...I hope. She's groaning right now ...just gave her the tramadol. Will update tomorrow. Thanks my friends. Hugs xo

[Altira]

Oh man I had a tooth that hurt so bad it hurt to even shallow. If I even touched my teeth together it shot pain everywhere. And I was on vacation. Stupid dentist. I had it pulled in a tiny town in Iowa and did I ever feel so much better. Poor Penny. I pray they get this out quick and Penny feels right as rain again.

[jmac]

Thinking of Penny today...hope you can figure out what to do about the tooth and she'll get some relief.

Julie & Hannah

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

That tooth could be quite painful. Poor PennyPoo. :( I hope the Tramadol helps until she can get in to have it looked at. Let us know when you can!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cyn719]

Waiting for dentist from Tufts to call me back.. I will have blood work done here in RI and surgery there in MA. Only prob is she does surgery only there on mon and tues sonthisnweek is shot ....hoping she can do net mon. Ugh poor dog is in pain!!

[lvasilio]

You also have Angel Medical Center to go to in Boston. I have had 2 pups there and they have excellent specialists of all kinds. I have used emergency, oncology, neurology, dermatology and nutritionist from here and have been very pleased. They are in Jamaica Plain- easy enough to get to. They are affiliated with Tufts Vet as well.

[mypuppy]

Poor Penny poo, toothaches stink, for a lack of better words...YIKES. I hate the dentist..

I had the worst throbbing toothache when I was pregnant with my little one and dr. gave me a root canal on a good tooth:eek: and it turned out it was my wisdom tooth...Really! What a guy! Needless to say, nver went back to that quack again, but I gave him a piece of my mind along with my good tooth he took. Ugh...

Good luck with the dentist tomorrow Cindy. We will be checking tomorrow.

Much love. Jeanette

[Altira]

Oh Cindy please don't wait! Find someone. No telling where that infection has spread to. No way can she make a week! At least get antibiotic and pain killers. This could be... Oh poor Penny I'm so worried.

[Cyn719]

Most not all vets are nuts! I waited all day for this dentist to call so I could do bloodwork and ?? is need for surgery at my vet tomorrow so I can book surgery. So I just called again and she can't come to the phone said she will call tomorrow! Really! I told them cant she just say what's needed so I can start this procedure! Ugh. This poor dog! I know she's in pain!! She is groaning and it only 6 ish. She usually is groaning later at nite! Oh boy!

[mypuppy]

Oh wow Cindy,

Can't believe they made your girl wait. This probably could've been done today I bet had they taken your phone call. Ugh...Is there anything you can give Penny for her tooth pain at least? I'm no vet obviously, but does anyone know if baby aspirin can help with the toothache? Don't know? I have heard you can give them baby aspirin for pain, but probably not strong enough for toothaches. Just trying to help your poor girl. Hope she can get this taken care of tomorrow latest. It would be nice to have her back to normal and without pain. Ugh, honey, wish we could help more. Hope her night is not too rough.

Take care of you and feel better soon Penny girl.

We love you...xo Jeanette and Princess

[Altira]

I agree... I wish we could help more too. It takes hell water and damnation to get me to a dentist. Obviously. But when I get a tooth ache I go! Don't know if it's the same with dogs but you say she is moning and that can't be good. You know you can legally demand all of Pennys records and go some place else. Anymore I demand records any place I go. And new vets are good about reviewing them. Maybe go there tomorrow instead of waiting for a return phone call. I don't know. Give penny a big hug from us and tell her we love her. In fact do that a lot tonight ok?? Poor sweetheart.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Cindy-

I always get copies of any records made each time I leave my vets. I learned to do that a long time ago. I'm amazed at how hard it is for some to really reach their vets......but then I am the one who will go and sit in the waiting room until I am seen. It sounds like you're getting really shabby treatment. I hope things are better by now.

-Susan

[Cyn719]

I have penny's records. It's just she does need new bloodwork. My vet will do what I need I just need to know what Tufts wants. I will hear from her in the am or I will call her! Hopefully it will go better in the am. Just giving her tramadol. Hope he sleeps well.

Xo

[Rebelsmom]

Sorry you are going through all this on top of Penny's other issues. Sorry I'm a little behind on your thread but I will try to catch back up.. Sending you lots of hugs and love..

Happy Valentines Day!

[Cyn719]

Same to you Melissa!:)

Xo

[Rebelsmom]

I texted you today, but I'm not sure if you receive them or not..

[Cyn719]

Hi. Sorry I'm late posting back. Have the dreaded stomach virus ugh! Dentist called.....she wants urine which I have to do to recheck for UTI and senior panel with T4. Since penny hasn't had bloodwork since September I want to do all that's she needs. Will senior panel cover everything??

Hugs xoxo

[Skye]

Hey my friend!!!!!
not sure if you would benefit more from a cbc and biochemical blood panel and urine over senior panel or not. and some things just have to ordered specifically for further more indepth testing, but at least you will build fresh foundation. If there is an upcoming surgery...you should see if they can do the u/s or mri or x-rays that they thought she might need. with the blood panel if she has an infection in her tooth that is going to cause a few of the things to show elevation
ugh you had the stomach ick stuff??? ohhhh sooooo sorry. Did you find any medinice to help? i never know what to take. and it hurts so bad when it happens. hope your feeling better. take care sweet friend.

[Cyn719]

Thanks Stormee

I will speak to my vet and ask senior panel vs separate tests. I would of thought they would of wanted at least a chest X-ray.....she didn't ask for it. I will see why?? Nothing helped the sick stomach. Stopped getting sick early this morning but stomach still blah and feel weak. Hoping the morning wil be better. Hope you and your honey had a nice Valentines Day!!

Love and hugs xxoo

[Cyn719]

Damm vet ...asked about bloodwork she said yes just do sr. Panel.....it's like penny's old just do whatever! Come on really! Stormee thank you for the suggestion ...... I mentioned what you said the cbc and biochemical and she just gave that answer ..Sr Panel.. She said it like she was just doing it cause she had to. So does anyone have any other tests that would be helpful. Refresher question....which test tells if dog has cushings?? ACTH is just to check the level?? Curious since IMS said maybe she may not of had it......last ACTH was 11 .....so if she has cushings that would be high......non cushings it would be normal....she drinks normal.......a few days alittle more .......eats normal .....coat is good sometimes pants a lot so that would be her worse sign. Thanks for the help as always

Hugs xoxoxoxoxo

[lulusmom]

Hi Cindy,

The low dose dex suppression test is the gold standard in diagnosing cushings and the acth stimulation test is used to diagnose, as well as monitor treatment.

[Cyn719]

Glynda

Thanks. It's been awhile since that test. I couldn't remember what it was. So if we do another cushings test it should be that to again determine if she really has cushings??

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

You're not worried about the tooth anymore? Has anyone looked at it? Why are you wanting to do cushing's tests? I know that Penny's case is complicated in a way I don't understand. Sorry. For me it was the 8hour stim test that gave the best results for cushings. The other night you said Penny was moaning. She's not doing that anymore? Is she still staying outside by herself? Maybe you can get more answers from Penny herself... Oh hell what do I know? I just wish I could help... Are you feeling better?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cindy,

IMHO, doing any testing for Cushing's on Penny right now would be a colossal waste of money. We know that stress of any kind can cause the cortisol to rise - in a perfectly natural response to the stress. So any tests for Cushing's given under circumstances of infections, chronic pain, certain meds, or health issues with organs other than the adrenals can return with false-positive results. There is no question in my mind that Penny has been, and is, under enormous stress with her legs and tooth alone. ;)

Again just me, but I would be putting my money toward getting that tooth taken care of and finding some way to provide her some relief and support for her legs. Then if her signs became strong, and ONLY if they became strong, would I have her retested for Cushing's.

Just MHO. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

I agree 100% with Leslie. I wouldn't bother to retest unless symptoms return with a vengeance and even then, I'm not sure I'd retest because if symptoms return, chances are the original diagnosis was correct and you could probably just resume treatment.

[Altira]

It makes sence Cindy. Get the tooth fixed. At least you know you can give her that much.

[Bailey's Mom]

Ditto Leslie and thanks, Janice, for the laugh!

Does it really matter if it IS Cushings, at this point? I'm not insensitive to your situation it's that I just don't see why a diagnosis,.....false positive or not, really matters here. I'd be focusing on comfort and quality of life. :)

Love,
Susan

[Sophie]

Hello...came across your issue with Penny's tooth and I wanted to share my experience with Biscuit and her teeth. She has always had issues with her teeth and has had more than half her teeth pulled over the years. There is one tooth in particular that gets abscessed from time to time. My vet does want to put her under to remove it at this point because of her heart murmur and because she is older. So when it abscesses I get a 2 week dose of clindamyacin and it clears it right up.

This has been ongoing for about 2 years now, it will act up every six months or so. Her canines are also worn down pretty far, maybe even to the root and two of them are very crooked almost falling out of her mouth. She has no front teeth and her little tongue sticks out...it's so cute!

Now I can't say her mouth smells like a bouquet of roses...it smells like a garbage can, but she seems to manage fine. I grind up her food and soften it with water and give her soft treats.

So if putting Penny under is an issue, I wouldn't worry too much about treating with antibiotics. I was scared at first not to pull Biscuit's bad tooth, but the antibiotic treatment seems to work just fine. Just get something strong like Clindamyacin, its for teeth and bone infections.

[Cyn719]

Sorry I didnt post. I have been posting on other threads and forgot my own:p

Penny went for bloodwork today.......heart worm....senior panel.....T4 .....weight 75 lbs so she's holding.......yes tooth is coming out......cant remember if I posted that.....tufts called and told me to do the Blood work and call her Friday to set up surgery. My vet said yes root is exposed on side of tooth. Don't know amount of pain which scares me but hopefully rimadyl and tramadol is helping. Two days ago she had such a great day..... Bouncing......yesterday and today those legs don't want to work...but I have to concentrate on the tooth now. Cushings test is on the back burner till needed... I was curious which test because the IMS mentioned that IF we saw more symptoms we would need to test. Will post results tomorrow. Thanks all for the advice....much appreciated:)

Hugs from me and my girl xoxo

[Cyn719]

Hi

Thanks for the info on Biscuit. :) Penny had her other upper canine tooth plus 4 others taken out by a dentist at Tufts...she did great....it was a year ago....I totally trust this vet.....yes I am so nervous about putting her under but she said she will do fine.....I just don't want to leave it cause she broke off the tip and a sliver came off the side exposing the pulp so vet said yes there is pain....I hate the thought of her not have either upper canine:( but it kills me to think of the pain she's in....I can't stand a sensitive tooth:eek: I just hope the blood work is fine so we can do it!

Can picture that cute face with the little tongue sticking through:D

Hugs xoxo

[Sophie]

Good luck Cindy, I am sure Penny will be just fine. They don't put them under as deep for dental so it's not as scary. It is always best to get it pulled if possible. Even if the root dies, the tooth will continue to abscess.

[Altira]

Do they make false teeth for dogs? Implants maybe? No? She's going to be fine. She has to be! Oh lucky penny she'll feel so much better.

[Cyn719]

Biscuits mom

Did you say vet wants to put biscuit under or doesn't want to put her under cause of her heart mumor? Yes you are right dentist said she won't be under as much...they use a different med that other vets use...I trust her.....still scarey.

Hugs xoxo

[Altira]

It's the right thing to do Cindy. Soon as you know when they are doing it let us know. I will be right here with you. As I'm sure many others will be. It doesn't take long all to pull a tooth.

Kira had a heart mumor when she had her adrenalectomy....

((((((hugs)))))))