Vetoryl / Cushings Disease - Dear Penny has passed [Archive] - Page 4 - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 01:04 PM

Marie - yes I needed a group hug for sure!!! Ok so she is going Friday at 11:00 - but today she really is not feeling good - by the afternoon if she gets worse I am calling back and demanding they take her tomorrow!!!! Are they kidding me!!!!! Ok you can take her in on off hrs for and extra $105 plus the $205 for the test - really - so you can do it as an emergency without her vet there but cant do it on regular hours without her vet there!! ugggg - I told them she gets worse by Friday they will hear it - my brother knows the Administrator of the hospital and I will be verbal for sure!!! Ok I vented for now:D:D

Does anyone know about prep for this ACTH - she has been on trilo holiday for a while now so no certain prep for the ACTH right?? Before I use to give her the trilo and food then test was 4 hrs later - so no pills to give now so can breakfast be at anytime? I asked the girl on the phone but she really didnt sound like she knew the answer for sure -- Thanks!!!! xo

Skye

10-31-2011, 01:34 PM

aweeeee sweetheart how i can relate to that frustration and fight of a pet mom welling up inside you...............and ohhhhhhhhh when that breaks out watch out! there is nothing we pet moms (and dads) wont do to get people to listen, amazing how when that happens there really isnt much discussion back.....its just allllllll action. so if you gotta release the pet mom, do it. You got my support. Sometimes politeness goes far......and sometimes firm listen up THIS is gonna happen works to. LOL!!!!!! sending you hugs and smiles sweetheart. Remember.....everyone has someone or something in their life that is the entire meaning of their heart beating...........so placed on level they can understand......they also understand where your coming from. Your a beautiful pet mom, be proud in that.

Jenny & Judi in MN

10-31-2011, 02:16 PM

Hi Cindy: my vet is not a specialist but Jenny is allowed to eat on days she has her ACTH

I hope Penny starts feeling better. Judi

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 03:13 PM

Thanks Skye and Judi - Yup they just dont get it - its all about the money - I know all vets are not like that - just these few I had to come in contact with - well her attitude better change on Friday or I am changing to the other IMS - penny is so so today - walking slow - but eating - but her stool is so soft after 2 weeks - rice and chicken and she will not eat pumpkin and I tried every way - maybe it was the pred and since her last one was yesterday things will start to get solid - she is now peeing in the yard and she never did that before - she has a penned off are with tiny stone and she would only go there for the last 12 years - not she wont - sooo I am wondering if she cant make it to the pen cause she has to go so bad or ?? UTI so maybe I will have them check Friday - cannot get a urine sample - if you go near her she just gets up and walks away - tried to get a sample for years!!!!!!! She likes her privacey for sure!!!!!

lulusmom

10-31-2011, 03:15 PM

Hi Cindy,

It's not necessary to fast a dog before an acth stim test. Too much fat, however, can skew results but I don't think that's an issue for any of our dogs.

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 03:37 PM

Thanks Glynda - I will feed her in the early am - her appt is at 11:00 - one other quesion I am still feeding her the white rice and chicken - the breast boiled - they cannot have the dark meat correct????

Squirt's Mom

10-31-2011, 03:59 PM

Hi Cindy,

Dark chicken or turkey meat has more fats than white. That is why white meat is suggested for pups who have pancreatic issues or who need to lose weight. Removing the skin prior to cooking also helps lower the fat content. But you don't want to take all her fats away; they are a required nutrient. ;) When Squirt had her attack, it became my goal to remove all fat from her diet - WRONG! So learn from my mistakes! :D

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 04:05 PM

I learn something new every day - so since penny still has soft serve for her poo I am giving her rice and chicken everyday for like two weeks so she is getting no fat - so do I give her some dark meat to get the fat or ??? thanks for the help as always:)

Squirt's Mom

10-31-2011, 04:50 PM

Hi Cindy,

Sorry to confuse you. White meat does have fats, just not as much as dark.

For comparison -
1 cup (140 gr) of broiled skinless chicken breast has 5 gr of total fats.
1 cup of roasted skinless chicken thigh has 15 gr total fats.

via http://nutritiondata.self.com/

How long has she been eating only chicken and rice? If this is all you can get her to eat, give some NutriCal, etc. along with her meals to make sure she is getting all the vitamins and minerals she needs. It is easy to digest and good for dogs who are not eating as they should. The package will tell you how much she should have per day; just add that to her feed, divided if need be.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 05:20 PM

Leslie - she will probably eat her dog food I am just afraid to give it to her since her poo has been soft serve for two weeks - and she is probably hungry too because the chicken and rice doesnt seen to full her up - I can go to pet store to see if they have the NurtiCal - no one at the vets wants to answer any question cause the IMS wont be in until Wed! Really but if I come in as an emergency then you will answer my questions!!!:rolleyes: I hope she can hold off till friday - she wobbling when she walks - her hind legs are just losing so much muscle and strength - I guess she is more cushings cause she is somewhat handling the pain and drinking tons - I will see how she is tonight and if worse I will blast them in the am and make them take her

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 09:17 PM

Ok may have to do something in the am - my girl is off pred and on nothing at all but tramadol - she is in pain - back up against wall - cant get comfy - dont know if I can start Rimadyl ??? she needs something - IMS isnt on till Wed so like no one there wants to talk to me???? Seriously??? The orthopedic is on tomorrow so I can ask him about the Rimadyl but he may not know what to say because the IMS is doing testing so ??will it be ok?? Any opinions?? she cant stay like this till Friday - :confused: I thought going to the IMS would be so much easier:(

jmac

10-31-2011, 09:26 PM

Cindy-
I'm so sad to hear Penny is not doing well. I wish I had some advice to give you, but that is definitely not my area of expertise. I would be very frustrated about your vet experience too. Is there not someone else that could see her? Or can you see regular vet in these situations and have them communicate with the IMS? My IMS is really quick on response. They even called her at home one day when I had a question and then called me back with her answer. And we've only seen her ONCE. I do everything with the regular vet at this point, and use the IMS for a second opinion. They have been very helpful the few times I have called. I don't think you're in a very good situation, and you're right, it can't always wait. Again, I wish I had some good advice to offer, but hopefully just knowing that I am thinking of you and sweet Penny and hoping she will feel better will help. I'll say a little prayer for Penny tonight.

Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

10-31-2011, 09:36 PM

Thanks Julie so much - was trying to get away from my vet for the Cushings since she also did Penny in once already - I have to call this new hospital tomorrow and see how they do things - weird - if vet isnt on they dont want to bother with with but there has to be someone covering - I will give her a full does of tramadol and call them at 8am and try to speak with someone - I appreciated your prayers for Penny:) It means alot xo

mypuppy

10-31-2011, 10:21 PM

hi Cindy,
I don't believe I have ever posted on your thread. I wish I was able to offer you something valuable in order to Help your Penny girl. Nevertheless, I wish you strength and patience with all this, and as you can see you and your sweet girl are never alone, and there is always someone here to offer you our love, care and prayers.

I do so hope your Penny will soon resolve with her digestive issue and her muscle weakness so you can try to enjoy each other again. Those are my sincerest wishes for both of you. Oh yeah, and that she can go back to a regular diet. My girl is on the same mushy chicken and rice diet lately--sooooo boring, but gotta do what we gotta do.

tight hugs to you and belly rubs to Penny.

Xo Jeanette and Princess

Casey's Mom

10-31-2011, 11:15 PM

Hi Cindy, just wanted to send you positive thoughts and hugs. I hope Penny is feeling better soon and that you are able to get some veterinary help tomorrow.

Love and hugs,

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 12:04 AM

Thanks Jeanette and Ellen - Thank you so much for your thoughts and wishes -- I will let you know how it goes in the am -- giving her tramadol now - shes not comfy - and drinking drinking drinking!!!

Skye

11-01-2011, 12:29 AM

hey!!
in my opinion do NOT give her rimadayl. that is not a good medication, and am surprised its still being given. some doctors do not use it at all.
have you asked about adaquinn injections? (not sure i spelled that correctly) and i have heard great feedback on phycox soft chews, but be sure to read about it as if they have certain issues its not recommeded.
sometimes i will dampen a wash cloth and microwave it for few seconds.....not to hot...test on forearm....this feels good on sore bones and muscles and cold clothes do to...you can set dampen one in fridge or freezer. Not sure she should hot or cold????

Skye

11-01-2011, 12:30 AM

does that doctor, you IMS not have a back up doctor to have them call if someone needs him asap???? i would ask him about that for sure incase this ever happens again

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 12:43 AM

Skye - I am on it in the morning - weird - telling me I cant go in cause she is off till Wed - then said you might be able to see the other doctor but that would be a new viist and the test - What I just paid a 150 dollars for a consult now you want it again -- well I will let you know what they say- keep you posted

Squirt's Mom

11-01-2011, 11:32 AM

Mornin' Cindy,

How is our girl now? Did you get to talk to someone about her? How frustrating for you! :mad:

It sounds to me as if the pred may be needed for inflammation purposes, to keep her comfortable. I also wonder about the Gabapentin; I take it for Neuropathy and know it works differently than narcotic pain meds like Tramadol. Let me look into it a bit and I'll get back to you. We have had members here use it before with success. Basically, I'm grasping at straws with you. :o;)

Let us know what the clinic has to say and especially if she gets to see someone.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 05:59 PM

Ok called the IMS today she still isnt in - so I said to them when Penny comes in Friday for the ACTH test can she stay with me in between cause last time we were there she made her self sick - they said oh no one has ever asked that before - hold on so back and forth then she said well when you were in to see Dr Lester she wrote down she wanted a low dex - I said we know she has cushings!!!!! she said well when you called the other day and said Penny wasnt feeling well she said get her in for a ACTH so you should call back tomorrow to see which one she wants -- Really!!!!! that took 20 mins - :confused::mad: so yes I will call tomorrow but she does not need al low dex right????????? She was actually alittle better today - I dont think the pred really agreed with her - she was so depressed on it and soft stools but today stool is firming up alittle and she had alittle energy ----- but I think because her cortisol level is prob up which is good cause then she doesnt have addisions but bad cause she needs meds againg and the IMS said she doesnt think she would put her back on trilo - she wants to use Lysodren - so I and up in the air again until I talk to them tomorrow - this IMS better get on the phone!!!!

addy

11-01-2011, 07:54 PM

Hey Cindy,

You do not need a low dex test. An ACTH test will check her cortisol levels.

Hang in there,
addy

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 08:04 PM

Skye yup just recently started Adequan shots and she takes Dasaquin also - I hate the Rimadyl but sometimes nothing else works and I have to resort to it -

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 08:27 PM

Thanks Adddy :)Yup Addy that is what Debbie said I do not need a low dex -- I have to call tomorrow and straighten it out - the tech read the notes from IMS and said 10 days after pred low dex is needed - but when I said Penny wasnt well them IMS said ok get in for a ACTH - I cant even imagine why she wanted low dex - tech said to make sure she has cushings - i think we now that for sure - yes frustrating - and then they said they dont know if they let the dog stay with me while waiting the two hours - really cause she is staying with me she almost had a heart attack last time and was so sick when we got home and I was with her!!!! frustrating for sure - will see what they say tomorrow again!!!!!!!!!!

mypuppy

11-01-2011, 08:41 PM

Wow Cindy,

I just feel awful for all the run around yup have been getting from your IMS--it sounds all too familiar to me. It is just so uncalled for and so very frustrating to say the least. I am so sorry you have to go through all this when all you want deep down inside your heart is to get your Penny girl well. I know how desperate you feel right now knowing what feels right in your heart for your precious baby and relying on your dr. To know best but not coming through for you when needed. Sucks (pardon my French), in a nutshell. hang in there as hard as I k ow that is. Quick question since I really having been following your thread, but why does Penny need to be there for 2 hours for a stim? I normally bring Princess in at 11 am for her first draw and by 12 noon they are taking her 2 nd, And I do stick around for it. Just asking? I wish you and your Penny girl a smooth stim and some positive results.

All the best and warmest regards and some very tight hugs--seems you can use them right now.

much love to you and your girl....Jeanette

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 08:53 PM

Jeanette - I know you understand - thanks for thinking of us - much appreciated --- now you have me thinking - when you get them there they draw her blood - then at that point they give the injection and an hour later another drawer - so yeah why 2 hrs -- if anyone else can tell me how long they are there for ?? good point Jeanette I will check into that ---- thanks!!! how is your baby doing?????

StarDeb55

11-01-2011, 09:10 PM

Cindy, Jeanette spot on. You do a baseline blood draw, give the cortrosyn injection, then draw a post one hour later. Now, if the vet happens to use ACTH gel, instead of cortrosyn, the post draw is done 2 hours after injection. So you need to find out which stimulating agent the IMS uses to do her ACTH's.

Debbie

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 09:28 PM

Debbie - do they use the gel for a certain reason or it is just a preference if they do use it - I know they said two hours?? I will be on that tomorrow morning!! Maybe cause if you drop them at 11 and they start the draw late it gives they extra time but I will question them on it - thank you:)

jmac

11-01-2011, 10:28 PM

Cindy-
Sorry to hear things are still so frustrating. I'm not sure I would be able to stay calm and polite if I were in your situation, but I know it's hard because you want someone to know what to do for your dog. I just feel like they are not being very polite or accommodating, and it doesn't seem like they are sure what in the heck they are doing. I hope you'll get some answers tomorrow. I'm glad to hear Penny is a little better today. Keeping you both in my thoughts..

Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-01-2011, 11:15 PM

Thanks Julie - trying to be nice but every time I call its 20 mins to get a answer - hold on - I will get someone else - I dont know if dog can stay with you - need to talk to the vet tomorrow we dont now what test she wants - uggggg and she never mentioned any bloodwork - yes my vet did it my never did the cPL which after reading the posts from the others they should do it - its like pulling teeth to get an answer with them but tomorrow I will hopefully get ALL my questions answered - I hope

Skye

11-01-2011, 11:24 PM

you know.....what i would do is ask the tech that you trust and communicate best with.......can they be your direct info on things. That is what i finally did. and it has worked out soooo well. so that way, I am either communicating with dr or tech.
to many hands get in the file and no one knows what is going on. and maybe even express to the vet, look, this is my "pet child" i am taking this all very seriously, and i realize this is an emotional time for myself and trying to be strong at same time, however I am feeling not condfident on care, or knowledge, or at the very least staff being organized and educated in field enough to least read charts. It should NOT have to be that difficult to get an answer......maybe the vet is not charting everything in a timely manner? any tests they run you be sure to get copies of!!!!!! ugh i just feel so badly they are treating you this way

purpledachshunds

11-01-2011, 11:42 PM

Our thoughts and prayers are with you both. Not knowing exactly what is going on or what to do is frightening and frustrating. We're still in that boat as well, but Hercules seems to be a bit more stable than Penny. We wish we had answers to help, but we are lost in our battle.

You are doing your best and that is all you can do.

Roger and Myrna and Hercules.

rbeasl

11-02-2011, 12:55 AM

Cindy,

I am so sorry that you are going through so much... I completely understand the frustration.. I think once you talk to the IMS and have a heart to heart about Penny and how much she means to you everything will get better.... Right now Penny is watching you so try not to get stressed out because she will get stressed out...Now is the time to try to be calm and get strong and demand in a very nice way the quality of care Penny deserves. I am so glad you know what type of test to ask for and now how long it should take...

My Prayers and Thoughts are with you always

Rhondalyn and Honey

lulusmom

11-02-2011, 02:38 AM

Cindy, the gel is cheaper than cortrosyn and it is a two hour test. Cortrosyn can be a lot cheaper in the long run if the dog is less than 20 pounds. I think I've given you the details about that previously but if not let me know and I'll provide the information you will need to discuss with your vet.

jmac

11-02-2011, 09:54 AM

Cindy-
I agree with Skye. That is the appropriate way to have the conversation you need to have and still express how you're feeling. Penny is like your child and you want to feel confident in those who are supposed to be taking care of her. Good luck!

Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 01:39 PM

Thank you to each an everyone of you - I am so lucky to have so many Cush Friends to give me advice and strength - you guys are the best!!!!!:) Waiting for them to call me back - the receptionist say it is a 2 hr test - so that means its 2 hrs to give them enough time or 2 hr cause its the gel ?? I asked for the vet or tech to call me since I just want to ask about staying with her and is it the gel?? If I dont hear back by 2:00 I will call again- Pennys levels have to be up because she is more alert - but my question is why was she so out of it when she was on the pred?? I thought she would be more perky on that? If anyone has input? That is something I want to ask if I ever speak to someone at the vets :rolleyes: -- will be back soon to post -

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 02:14 PM

Ok vets office called - the tech - said vet really wants the low dex instead of the ACTH - I said why - she said low dex gives better levels and tells us more - i said we know she has cushings all she needs is th ACTH - she said I need to talk to the vet - ugggggg i said i want to talk to her she said shes in rounds all day - really!!!!!!!!!! they also want to do chest xrays and ultrasound -- HELP???

StarDeb55

11-02-2011, 03:01 PM

Cindy, someone does not know what they are talking about, I think the vet tech is giving you bad info. A low dose takes all day, not 2 hours. A baseline is drawn, followed by a 4 hour draw, then an 8 hour draw. If someone is telling you a low dose can be done in 2 hours, either they don't know what is required during the test, or they don't know what the vet wants.

Debbie

purpledachshunds

11-02-2011, 03:26 PM

Hi!

I have been unable to sit and read the entire thread to really know what is going on with Penny, but I wanted you to know we are praying for both of you.

When diagnosing Hercules our vet told us that she always likes to use the ACTH because it is the test that she will use to check his levels while on medication and it is best to compare “apples to apples” (one ACTH test to another v. comparing an ACTH to a LDDS). She did, however, say that the LDDS is more accurate. It sounds like you are way past the testing phase, though. I am curious, however, since the gel produces less accurate results if that is why she wants a LDDS?? I only know what little I know about using ACTH gel v. Cortrosyn from this forum and it is my understanding that the Cortrosyn yields more accurate results. It is only through the advice from everyone here that we were able to make using the Cortrosyn affordable.

During Hercules' recent bout with the HGE/pancreatitis the vet ordered an abdominal ultrasound (I assume this is the ultrasound they want for Penny) and an echocardiogram (which was an ultrasound of the chest). Our vet had another dog that became sick when it started taking Vetoryl and the echo revealed a rare underlying undiagnosed heart condition.

The response that the vet is in rounds all day leaves me speechless! Is the tech unable to at least ask the vet your questions and return a call to you? At least Hercules' current vet will call us! However, our former vet of 18 years (yes, he was great) had one huge fault: he never returned phone calls. If he did call we knew we had a dying animal, but since he was so good, we lived with the fact that we could only talk to him in person. (Plus his office manager was so knowledgeable that she really could answer almost any question and if she was unsure she would ask and call us back.)

I am sure others who are more familiar with your situation will be along soon with helpful advice, but I did just want to let you know we are thinking of you both!!

Sending you prayers and hugs!!

Roger and Myrna and Hercules

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 03:40 PM

Debbie no she made it clear that the low dex was 8 hrs - i am just telling her that I feel we do not need to do that we just need the ACTH -- can you understand why they want the low dex? I thought that just had to be done once - she is speaking with the vet and getting back to me -- so frustrating -

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 03:45 PM

Myrna and Roger - yes we should only need the acth because she had to low dex and we are past that now - dont know what her reason is - tech is suppose to call me back - want the ultra sound I believe to check out the size of the glands and to see if there are any tumors there - none were there before - and whats chest xrays - I want to do the most important because it is getting to be too much for us money wise - xrays - low dex - ultrasound = $600 pluse whateve blood work - we spent so much and I will do anything for her but we just put in a $5000 boiler and its tight right now- thanks for your advice love and support - so much appreciated!

lulusmom

11-02-2011, 05:07 PM

Hi Cindy,

I think one of three things could be going on. 1) Your IMS may not think Penny has cushing's and wants to reconfirm the diagnosis; 2) the office/vet tech you spoke with doesn't know how to spell cushing's, didn't bother to take notes and screwed up everything; or 3) your IMS got her degree from some bogus university on the back of a matchbook cover and has been masquerading as a board certified internal medicine specialist. :D:p:D Seriously, I think number one would be the only logical reason for doing a low dose dex at this point in the game.

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 05:28 PM

Glynda -- :D:D:D thank you I needed some humor today for sure!!!!! - do you in your opinion really think a low dex is necessary - I mean the test already showed it was Cushings - ok at this point I give up - do I let them do it or i dont??? so when you do a low dex you still get the cortisol level right? I thought going to the IMS with really be easier:D

All opinions welcome - my estimate is approx 600 for the xrays - the ultrasound and the low dex or acth - which is the most important in order right now - I cant do all three at this point???

lulusmom

11-02-2011, 06:38 PM

Hi Cindy,

You have to remember that none of the diagnostic tests are reliable without a lot of other indicaters, such as other test results and physical symptoms, that validate the results. Dr. Bruyette said it best when he said; "If there was any one test that was worth a darn, we wouldn't be talking about three of them." The whole thing is totally confusing because even if your IMS wanted to reconfirm the diagnosis, she should know that the test takes 8 hours. I am, therefore, inclined to think there is some miscommunication going on that only the IMS can straighten out for you.

If I were in your shoes and had an IMS who refused to talk to me, I wouldn't be trying to pick members' brains in an effort to gain insight into her rationale. Without a crystal ball, we can't give you any insight anyway. I'd be on the phone raising holy hell until the IMS got on the phone and answered my dang questions. It is absolutely ridiculous that she has time to make rounds but not one minute to spare for you. Give me a break. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel?

Cyn719

11-02-2011, 06:50 PM

They are telling me two hours for the ACTH and 8 hrs for the low dex - maybe I didnt type that right before - I just spoke to them I am taking her in the AM tomorrow or Friday (depending on when husband gets off rescue) they will do the ACTH - then we will go from there - I cant do everything tomorrow $600 plus - I will have to get these results and go from there -- the ACTH is important since she is drinking sooooooo very much - thanks for all the input and listening to me go on and on - but they were so annoying today - and no the vet didnt call back it was the tech again!!:eek:

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 02:15 PM

Hi -

Penny went for her ACTH today - it was the gel (2hrs) she is 77 lbs - she was 82 lbs so over the last month - two months she lost the 5 lbs - her spine is really prominet now - her stool is getting better - will get results tomorrow -

Bailey's Mom

11-03-2011, 05:19 PM

Hi Cindy-I just wrote a long response to you and it just totally disappeared....so this will be a shorter version, and probably a gentler one.

I think the vets you are dealing with are lacking in organization, knowledge and empathy. I think you deserve much more. I think a daily conversation, under extreme circumstances with the vet, is reasonable.

I would either-
1. Call and demand answers to all your questions and demand to speak with the vet. If that did not happen............
2. I would go there, taking Penny with me, and refuse to leave until you spoke with the vet and got all your many questions answered. If that did not happen.....
3. I would get copies of the entire file of medical records, before I left, and immediately find another vet or IMS. You don't live out in the middle of nowhere land and there have to be some alternatives that come with recommendations.

If you look at Palmer's thread, you will find that on July 7th or so last year he and his test results were fantastic. On August 5th we had to let him go. So much started happening so fast that we were in a daze. I never ever expected to go from a good status to a final status in one month's time. Time is of the essence.

Stand up for yourself and demand what is rightfully yours. Don't accept anything less. I know this is hard, upsetting and trying. Many of us have walked your path, or one similar to it. We are all here to support you.

Please excuse my strong message, but reading your thread for the past year or so, made me feel a need to express this to you. You deserve so much more than you are getting.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

-Susan

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 07:04 PM

Susan - thank you - I like strong messages - sometimes I feel like I am losing the battle and a good strong message helps so much!!! I have been going to my vet for 20 years - back when I have my two goldens - she really has been good - but when Penny needed both knees operated on - the hock injury and her teeth extracted I took her to specialist - but for some dumb reason I stayed with her when Penny got Cushings - and she didnt know anything about medications for it - as I found out to late - so I followed up with Dr Peterson and Dr Allen and here I am today - this vet now is the IMS at Ocean State and she seemed really nice but try to talk to her - forget it - so now she has her test today and tomorrow she better get on the phone with me - that is her last chance then I switch to the other IMS Dr Block -- yup I deserve alot more from her - its like because Penny is old shes not on top of her list - so she has one chance to make it up to me tomorrow - of couse he Cushings has kicked back in cause she drinks and drinks and if I hold back she flipping the lid on the tolite!! the IMS said Penny should not go back on the trilo since she had so may problems - wants to do Lysodren - ugggg her I go onto something new - I really am drained with this (like we all are and were) so thanks for the pep talk -- :D

All of you Cush Angels have been so helpful and so supportive!!! Thank you!!!!!! Really if it wasnt for all of you I know I wouldnt of make it this far!:):o

jmac

11-03-2011, 07:05 PM

Cindy-
I absolutely agree with Susan. I would at a minimum demand to talk to the vet and express your concerns and frustrations. If that did not happen I would skip the part about going in and demanding to talk in person, and I would get the copies of her records and move on.

These people are not helping you and they are not treating you with kindness and compassion, which you always deserve, but deserve even more so at a difficult time with Penny.

Good luck!
Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 07:10 PM

Julie - I have only seen the new IMS once - you think she would want me to feel comfortable and go back there? I guess we are only a number - but like I said one more chance tomorrow - David said the tech was very very nice today - I could go home sick - but I think part of the problem is that this place is so busy and there are only two IMS doctors there and they work only 4 days a week so they have appt from am to pm non stop but thats not my problem I deserve the time and respect if you are seeing my baby!!! Thanks xo

mypuppy

11-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Hi Cindy,
I must apologize for my peabrain....I just realized Penny had her stim today, and you are awaiting results tomorrow. Sorry, I read that wrong. So much going on lately it's not hard to mess up:eek: again, so sorry. hope all went well with her stim.

love ya and your baby girl.

Xo Jeanette

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 08:28 PM

Jeanette - dont apologize - I needed the pep talk - I still have to deal with this IMS tomorrow!!! You should see what I do on posts - I use wrong names - of people and dogs - lol sometimes you forget who you are talking to - lol lol thank you - I appreciate it so much:):)

StarDeb55

11-03-2011, 08:29 PM

Cindy, be prepared, you may not be able to move to the other IMS in the practice, & I would have a serious doubt as to anything changing much in how communication is handled with owners, even with the other vet. As I said, I quit one IMS because of this type of policy. The excuse was that she just didn't have time to handle all the calls from owners. Well, it's a funny thing to me that my GP vet has a very busy practice, & it may take a day or 2 to get a call back, but he most definitely returns calls. It absolutely infuriated me that I was spending all of this money with an IMS, & she couldn't take 5-10 minutes of her time to get on the phone with me.

Debbie

Cyn719

11-03-2011, 09:11 PM

Debbie - my husband said the same thing - the other vet may not take me being in the same practice - thats how it was with my sons prediatrician - I wanted to switch to another doctor in the group and they said I could not - well I will just have to stay firm - cant wait to see how long it takes them to call me tomorrow - but she did say no more trilo - it made her tremble - have the episodes - and just be out of it - so she wants her on the lysodren - so kind of scarey to start something new -

mypuppy

11-03-2011, 09:54 PM

Cindy,

When I initially started Princess on treatment 2 years ago with her first IMS, I had the same issue. In fact she had the nerve to tell me she did not have time to be on the phone with me and my gp to discuss the same issues going on with Princess, and I noticed her getting flustered with all my questions, and would give me very short replies, if any. I finally had it with the attitude, and switched to another ims in the same group. I thought that would certainly be a conflict for me since they are colleagues, and of course they exchange notes I'm sure, although I wonder if hipaa laws apply to animals as well---haaaaaaaaa? But anyway, truth is, this ims is no prize compared to the other, and I've had to stick it out due to my lack of other specialists near my home, but she does return my phone calls, even though at times by the end of our conversations, I wish she hadn't--lol. I am not thrilled with her, but its all ive got right now.

I hope you are not limited and could go elsewhere and out of the practice--it's probably better and less uncomfortable for everyone involved, specially you.

Xo nite. jeanette

marie adams

11-04-2011, 12:15 AM

Hi Cindy,

We all have horror stories. That is why I hate most vets. They do not see how important it is to us to know what is going on as soon as possible so we can get understanding and move on to how to treatment. The day I found out Maddie had cancer I called the ims after getting the fax with the results; they told me she would call me right back--it was hours later. I remember finally getting to talk to her as I was driving to a client for a meeting. This was the second time I had gone to this IMS after almost a year of dealing with Cushings. I went thru 3 vets with this disease because I knew more than they did thanks to the help of everyone here. It is funny how we have to make payment for each visit before they will give us our dog back after going through tests. Maddie hardly ever went to the vet in her 12 years until the last year of her life--it was a nightmare each time because I knew it would be a struggle to get the test results--you pay an absolute fortune for the test the least they can do is call you right away especially when they say the results will be back the next day. It shouldn't be this stressful....:eek:

When it came time to think about a vet for Ella I was so nervous who to go to. I original went to the 2nd vet I used for Maddie, but have changed to a really hands on vet highly recommend by my dog friends in the neighborhood. The funny thing is he knows a lot about Cushings--darn why wasn't I given his name sooner...:(

Cindy hang in there--you will find the ims that works with you and for you to help Penny. They have to be out there....:D

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 01:59 AM

Thanks Marie and you are so right! They make sure they give you the estimate so you know to bring that money when you pick them up from testing or surgery!! And how quick they tell you that if they see your dog the day shes in for testing it will be an extra $65!! Really ok dont look at her - you just saw her two weeks ago!! Lets wait for the results!!! Seriously!!!! The only vet so far I found fantastic was the Oral Surgeon at Tufts in MA - she was nice - called back immediately - game me her email - if only she was an IMS!!! Well tufts is an option - its about 50 mins from here - I just wanted something alittle closer in case of emergencies - this IMS is 25 mins - my vet is 20 mins - but I will see tomorrow after I get her results -- Hugsssssss

mypuppy

11-04-2011, 02:40 PM

Hi there Cindy,

We just got home from Princess's stim, and was hoping to hear some news on Penny's test results.

Please let us know when you get something.

thinking of you... Jeanette and Princess

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 05:05 PM

Jeanette -

Called at 3:15 said results were in they were paging the doctor and then I got her voicemail -- soooo I am assuming I will get a callback from the tech - hopefully someone -- and I am going to demand to speak to the vet so I know her plan of action - but hopefully I am jumping the gun and maybe the vet will call herself:rolleyes:

So you will get your results on Monday or are they open tomorrow?? How is she today - is she drinking?? xo

mypuppy

11-04-2011, 05:42 PM

Hi Cindy,

Wow! I would've expected to hear back first thing in the morning, at least that has pretty much always been the case with me. I am so sorry they are making you wait since for us every second counts. uGH. As for me, my regular IMS is off on Fridays, and I saw another one of the IMS's in the group, in fact this was the other one that I still hadn't met or seen. Well let me tell you I was quite impressed with her--she was everything Ive been or anyone looks for or can ask for in the care taking of our babies. She was very sweet, patient and actually interacted with my dog. I am sorry I didn't find her 2 years ago, dang it. I am even almost tempted to switch again, but Id have to really give it a lot of thought since again, they are colleagues, and it's just uncomfortable. We shall see. My facility is a 24 hour emergency hospital. The IMS told me she is in tomorrow and should expect to call me tomorrow with results.

How is Penny doing today? is she eating her Merrick? Princess is eating but not as much. She is so picky, and she is not drinking still. maybe a sip or two. ?

I hope you get a call sometime today or at least this century--LOL.

Hang in there with all this, it's all we can possibly do when we are at someone else's mercy--blehhhhhh.

love lots...xo Jeanette

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 06:04 PM

Hi everyone here are Pennys results

Pre 3.6
post 11.0

Penny has been on trilo holiday since 9/27 - right now vet said she is in normal range BUT she is drinking so so much!! So she feels that the low dex would of told her more but now would like to move on to the ultra sound - chest xrays and a sterile urine test - and go from there - I asked about diabetes and she said doesnt think so but question of the diabetes that is in the brain? - oh I forgot the initials she used - it will come to me - she said if she does need to be treated for cushings she will use a very low dose of Lysodren and watch her carefully - and she is thinking of using the meds to treat the brain diabetes to see if she responds - she knows I cannot afford to do the MRI -

I have to give credit where credit is due - the vet was very nice to talk to today -she said Penny was wonderful yesterday and she enjoyed having here there - she was kind and explained things - she laughed with me and made me feel very comfortable - thank God!!! I went into the conversations with an attitude but I didnt need it today:D

So I know results but still dont know much more - some of you probably can give me some insight on your experiences with any of this - or the brain diabetes? Thank you for your support and thoughts:)

Squirt's Mom

11-04-2011, 06:38 PM

I think what she meant by brain diabetes was DI - diabetes insipidus. I THINK.....

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 06:49 PM

So post of 11 is normal -- so has anyone else had a normal ACTH but dog still seem like he/she had cushings???

marie adams

11-04-2011, 07:02 PM

Hi Cindy,

From what I remember 11 would be high since 1-5 is the normal range for a Cushings dog--that is probably why she is drinking more again. Maddie had to do a kind of mini-load on Lysodren when her numbers went up to 12 after being down in the 3-5 range after our initial load in the beginning. Maddie didn't have any side effects with Lyso so if I had to do it again I would be comfortable with it.

I am so glad it was a good conversation and you feel comfortable with the vet!!!:)

frijole

11-04-2011, 07:46 PM

I think the IMS is questioning the diagnosis of cushings and the desire to do the ldds was to see if it came back as cushings again. FWIW my Annie took that test a couple times and it came back as pituitary cushings. She had 5 acth tests and only ONE came back as not cushings. But she doesn't have cushings. Other illnesses can cause false readings on these tests.

She wants to do the ultrasound to see what is going on with the organs and I think that is wise. She's a specialist and so I have to believe she knows more than your first vet - go with it and see what she discovers. I'm glad your meeting went well. Its hard to trust again I know but you really need to give it a shot. Just be honest with her and tell her you've been hurt. She's seen it before I"m sure. :D

If you go to the important resources section and read up on diagnosing cushings you will see a host of articles - trust me your dog is one of many many many who have been hard to diagnose. The articles talk about what it could be besides cushings, the symptoms, etc. Check it out - you'll also see the testing that is recommended to rule in or out cushings. Hang in there.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 08:54 PM

Ok what I do understand is when Penny was on trilo the normal range was 1 - 5 I got that but now that she is not on any trilo the IMS said normal is up to 20 - so being 11 she is in the normal range correct? - I think of these questions after I get of the phone with her but she said to call her monday if I needed to ask anything - So Cushing is in remission or she may or may not at the present have Cushings so the other testing is need - Also if I go to the Diabetes forum they can probably tell me about the diabetes that occurs in the brain? But maybe I should take one step at a time and let her do the chest xray and ultra sound first of course :confused: I know nothing is cut and dry with Cushings its just I start to understand something and things change and I feel like I am starting from page 1 again -- I know I am not alone all of you have gone through this - I am just needing to vent

StarDeb55

11-04-2011, 10:26 PM

Assuming Penny does have Cushing's, 11 is not normal for a cushpup. Normal is 1-5, IMO, this is why your seeing the increased drinking. Anytime Harley's stim would get much over about 7, his symptoms would come back with a vengeance.

Debbie

frijole

11-04-2011, 10:28 PM

Let me try this again....the IMS does not think your dog has cushings. :D That is what I'm thinking....

Your dog has been off of trilo a long time and there is NO chance of anything being in her system and her cortisol level is 11. Normal dogs that do not have cushings have readings of 11 - that is a great reading.

If a dog has cushings the acth test is done and the reading is over 22 let's say. So you start on trilo or lysodren in order to lower the cortisol level. Lowering cortisol gets rids of symptoms in cush dogs. But you have to lower it a LOT in order for it to stay low and for those symptoms to go away and thus the DESIRED range of 1-5. That is the desired range for cush dogs - not the 'normal' level.

Go back and reread my post - dogs have false positives which could explain why Penny's numbers were all over the map and the strange symptoms when giving trilo.

I could be wrong but I would bet money she is questioning the diagnosis. Truth be told I have often questioned it myself. That is why I kept pushing for a local IMS to get involved. I truly hope this new vet can help you thru this.

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 10:29 PM

Debbie I was just updating my post when you were posting - so why is the vet telling me 11 is normal ?? she is off trilo and normal range for dogs not on meds is 1-20? but dogs on meds normal is 1-5?

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 10:33 PM

Kim I was posting to Debbie when you were posting to me soooo I get it now - starting from the beginning Penny may of never had cushings because of a false positive test - ok got that - so 11 is normal in a normal dog -- so she needs to know if penny really has cushings by doing a chest xray and ultrasound right? So as you said you have questioned if Penny really had cushings all along??? so say she really doesnt or never had it we still have the excess drinking to look into -- am I getting it now? Sorry if i am slow on this - its alot cause I assumed she had it and now this - I am trying

StarDeb55

11-04-2011, 10:38 PM

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 10:50 PM

frijole

11-04-2011, 10:55 PM

You got it Cindy. I know it's a lot but it might be helpful if - when you are up to it - you go back to the beginning of your thread. Ignore all the 'fluff' and just focus on what is fact. What tests happened, when, then what drugs, then what happened. Write it out. Ignore the unimportant stuff. I bet you will learn alot AND it will help you ''condense'' your story to this new vet.

It has to be hard for a vet to come into the middle like this. She's got to try to figure it all out and you probably forgot some things that happened. So just go back and jot it out. That's what I did when I went to Kansas State. I have it in a word doc. They loved it. I just included test results along with dates, the test results, the drugs used, the results.

frijole

11-04-2011, 10:57 PM

QUESTION this was Pennys test last year 2 months before the trilo was this a low dex or reg ACTH and is this the test that told vet is was Cushings?

Penny 9/17/10

Cortisol (3Samples)

Tube Labeled Pre
Tube Labeled 4hr
Tube Labeled 8 hr
Cortisol Pre 4.4
Cortisol 2.5
Cortisol 4.2

normal response to ACTH canine 5.5-20.0
post-lysodren 1-5

:D I'm going to make you work for the answer :D

There are 3 numbers/reading. One was taken PRE (before), then on after 4 hrs, then one after 8 hrs.

You've had several acth tests - how long did they take?

:D Pop quiz

frijole

11-04-2011, 11:28 PM

I have to call it a night so I'm going to answer your question even though you didn't answer mine. ;):D

ACTH test has 2 nos and only takes an hour.

Low dose test has 3 nos and takes 8 hrs.

You posted results from a low dose and they are indicative of pituitary cushings. I would assume yes that this is the test used to diagnose Penny. Annie's numbers were very similar both times. Hard to believe they were both false positives but it did happen to me.

Lord knows I'm no vet but the point is the new vet has a clean slate and wants to be sure and I think that is a very very good thing. Have a good evening and go hug Penny! Kim

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:32 PM

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:34 PM

I was answering at the same time you were posting I knew the answer!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:):):) lol lol ok so my confusing is I thought with a low dex over 20 meant cushings

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:36 PM

You deserve a metal for putting up with me!!!!:D:o

StarDeb55

11-04-2011, 11:41 PM

Cindy, the following link is from the important information section of the forum. In it you will find flow charts on how to read low dose results, along with ACTH, & high dose results. Click on the link for the low dose, & the flow chart should download to your desktop. I keep the flowcharts for both the low dose & ACTH available on my desktop at all time for easy referral.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217

I will give you one hint. When you're looking at numbers, you need to look at whether or not there's an escape from suppression between the 4 & 8 hour mark.

Debbie

frijole

11-04-2011, 11:42 PM

:o:o:o ok was not thinking when I asked that question:o:o:o:D yes low dex it was 8 hrs:D sooo now this part I do need to ask normal is 5.5 - 20.0 and Pennys was 4.2 so what is that test saying?? If it was cushings it would be about 20?? I know I am driving you crazy - its like Cushings 101 all over again!!!!!! Sorry:p:o

This here is the Low Dose test:

Penny 9/17/10

Cortisol (3Samples)

Tube Labeled Pre
Tube Labeled 4hr
Tube Labeled 8 hr
Cortisol Pre 4.4
Cortisol 2.5
Cortisol 4.2

This test is NOT the same as an acth test. It has nothing to do with over 20, between 1 and 5 NONE of that... it is a diagnostic test used to diagnose cushings and it sometimes can tell you what type of cushings.

This here:

normal response to ACTH canine 5.5-20.0
post-lysodren 1-5

Clueless because it does not belong on the low dose test results. All it says to me is that a dog that is normal will have cortisol levels up to 20 and after lysodren (which you never used?!) the desired cortisol range would be between 1 and 5. Where did you get this from? Looks like notes and not test results????

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:44 PM

I got it right off the lab results - i typed it just like I saw it --

StarDeb55

11-04-2011, 11:48 PM

Cindy, pay close attention to what Kim said, the normal ranges have absolutely nothing to do with a low dose test. Those normal ranges are strictly for an ACTH.

Debbie

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:49 PM

now you can see why I was confused with that range -- ok I need to ignore that range - I dont know why that range was under the low dex test - I was just going by what I saw -- so her low dose dex is saying she has cushings and it could of been a false positive -- so my IMS is trying to figure this out now -- got it-- sorry it took so long - :o

StarDeb55

11-04-2011, 11:51 PM

Cindy, please refer to my post from earlier, #834. I went over the possibilities of a false positive result. Again, I think it would be very helpful if you would take a look at the flowchart that I posted the link for.

Debbie

frijole

11-04-2011, 11:52 PM

I got it right off the lab results - i typed it just like I saw it --

Strange... well just ignore that part of the lab. :D

OK.. now I really have to go to bed and Annie is outside waiting for me to bring her in. Have a good night!!!!! And go hug Penny! :D:D:D

Cyn719

11-04-2011, 11:53 PM

I will!!!! I am fried!!! and I know I burnt you out tooo!!!!!! Nite xo

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 12:35 AM

Kim's post explains this very well. There are a lot of other things that have overlapping symptoms with Cushing's, including regular diabetes, diabetes insipidus, & low thyroid. The low dose test is considered to be the gold standard to diagnose Cushing's, but it has one big problem, there can be false positives on the test in the presence of a non-adrenal illness. If Penny has something else going on, this may be why her low dose was positive to begin with, & why she had such a vile reaction to the trilo. This is why it's extremely important to validate a positive on any single test for Cushing's such as the low dose or ACTH, with a second test. It really sounds to me like the IMS has serious doubts about the original diagnosis, & wants to take a look at other possibilities.

Debbie - where it says with a second test - that means to do the low dose or the ACTH over again? So if the answer is yes my vet should of repeated the test - as I read what Kim said she did get a couple of false positives also -- I know I was confused tonight -- It all started when the IMS say Pennys ACTH is normal!! I didnt get all the false positive stuff and repeating of tests - I got it now -

StarDeb55

11-05-2011, 07:45 AM

Cindy, I believe the new vet appears to want to repeat the low dose, correct me, if I'm wrong. The usual procedure to diagnose Cushing's is to do either a low dose, (preferred test), or an ACTH. If either of these are positive, then a second test is needed to confirm the result. This might be an ACTH, if you have done a low dose or an abdominal ultrasound. When Harley was diagnosed, my vet actually did the UTK panel which is the expanded adrenal panel, & I took him to my former IMS who did the abdominal ultrasound.

Debbie

labblab

11-05-2011, 08:15 AM

Cindy, I just want to add that I am also glad that you're going to be having an ultrasound done. I can't remember if Penny has had one before? But it can accomplish two things: give you helpful information about the status of her major internal organs, and specifically give you important feedback about the state of her adrenal glands. That can help confirm the original Cushing's diagnosis and also tell you with greater certainty what type of Cushing's she may be suffering from.

If you go back and take a look at the flowchart for the Low Dose Dex test that Debbie gave you in reply #842, you'll see that Penny's original Low Dose results were consistent with Cushing's but could have been associated with either form of the disease, pituitary or adrenal. Her three test results were 4.4, 2.5, and 4.2. Per the flowchart, the second two were both greater than 1.5 and they both were also greater than 50% of the first baseline value. So actually taking a look at the adrenal glands themselves can help to confirm the type of Cushing's, too.

Marianne

addy

11-05-2011, 10:05 AM

Dear Cindy,

I have one question, girl, how do you keep it all together? I would be a babbling fool by now if I were going through what you are.

I give you a lot of credit, seriously, you just keep at it, Cindy, you'll find your answers, with your perseverance, how could you not?

love and hugs,
addy

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 01:22 PM

Debbie the IMS said to me yesterday I wanted to do the low dose but since we did the ACTH I am not going to do the low dose now I am going to go ahead and to the xrays and the ultrasound

Marianne - Yes Penny had 2 ultrasounds a while back - one showed one gland was lightly larger than the other and the second one showed one large than the other but because I do not know what my vet was doing I am going to have those two ultrasounds sent to the IMS -so said to have pit cushings - but the IMS is doing the ultrasound and xrays next week -- yup now I understand how to read a low dose - I wasnt getting that in the beginning - so with Pennys results back in 2010 that test said she had cushings ----- but these can also come back false positive

Addy - Thank you - I just had a confusing night last night because the IMS said Pennys test is normal - so I heard just normal - so its normal is she doesnt have cushings but if she really has cushings 11 is not normal - so now the big question does Penny have cushings or not -- so on with the testing to reveal the real results - yup I was a babbling fool last nite:o:osorry to those who had to deal with me:p Yup I will move forward and I will get to the bottom of this someday hopefully soon!!!

Thanks to all of you for all your patience love support and concern xoxo

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 01:43 PM

PENNY WENT FROM THE PURINA ONE KIBBLE TO THE MERRICK KIBBLE - SHE SEEMED TO LIKE IT IN THE BEGINNING BUT NOW I CANNOT GET HER TO EAT - SHE IS HUNGRY BECAUSE SHE IS AT HER CLOSET SCRATCHING THE DOOR TO EAT - SHE HAS A FEW BITES AND WALKS AWAY S00 I SHOULDNT GO BACK TO THE PURINAL SINCE IT DOESNT HAVE THE BEST INGREDIENTS SO MOVE ON TO A NEW ONE? I TRIED PUTTING CHICKEN OR ROAST BEEF INTO IT AND SHE JUST PICKS THAT OUT - THIS IS A LIST OF FOOD MY LOCAL PET STORE CARRIES -- ANY SUGGESTIONS -

Alpo - Dry, Canned Nutro Max - Dry
Bil Jac Nutro Natural Choices - Dry, Canned
California Natural Nutro Ultra - Dry, Canned
Canidae Pedigree - Dry, Canned
Cesar Canine Cuisine - Tub Butchers Select - Canned
Cesar Gourmet Filets - Tub Little Champions - Pouch
Cesar Select - Tub Pro Plan - Dry, Canned
Chicken Soup Pro Plan Selects - Dry
Diamond - Naturals Purina - Dry, Wet
Eagle Pack Purina - Beneful
Eukanuba -Dry, Canned Purina One - Dry
Premium Performance - Dry Reward Dog Food - Canned
Breed Specific - Dry Royal Canin - Breed Specific
Gravy Train - Dry, Canned Science Diet Dry, Canned
Iams - Dry, Canned Science Diet Advanced Protection
Innova Science Diet Natures Best
Kibbles N' Bits - Dry, Canned Solid Gold
Merrick The Good Life Recipe - Dry
Mighty Dog Food - Canned Wellness - Dry, Canned
Natures Recipe - Dry, Canned Wysong
Newman's Own
Not all PSP stores will carry every brand and product listed in this guide.

Squirt's Mom

11-05-2011, 02:38 PM

IMHO these are worth a try - (either canned or kibble forms, whichever works better for Penny)

California Natural
Canidae
Royal Canin (not that I am convinced at all by the "breed specific" stuff ;) but it is a decent feed)
Innova
Solid Gold
Merrick (you might try a different flavor or canned)
Wellness
Wysong (I have no experience with this feed but have heard good things from some others and in briefly looking over the ingredient list on the maintenance feed, it seems pretty good)

One thing - since I have fed some of these, like CA Nat., they have been bought out by P&G so the formulas may have changed. :(

The rest I either know absolutely nothing about or would not choose for my babies.

Just my 2 cents worth! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 03:02 PM

Love your 2 cents always!!!:) i will check out the kibbles - merrick i use the senior - now i just fed her alittle canned merrick and some boiled chicken - she had no problem swallowing that in 2 seconds!!!! So it is the kibble she doesnt like right now for sure -- shhhhh i shouldnt say this but since she has been off the pred for 5 days she is so much happier - alert - spunky - i thought on the pred she would be that way but its just the opposite --- my bro came over today she ran in the house found a rawhide bone that i haven seen in 4 months and brought it to him and then went to the yard to chew it - well just for a few minutes - missing to many teeth:d - her coat is filling in good and here shedding has almost stopped - so crazy girl has her moments -- just drinks alot - hope the mistery is solved soon --:)

Bailey's Mom

11-05-2011, 04:40 PM

Cindy........WOW!!! What a handful. You are doing so well and keep on asking the questions.

When I came to this forum I knew nothing about Cushings. The people here had to explain to me and reexplain to me however many times it took. I can remember the day when the light bulb went on. :D There are gazillions of questions, tons of test results and a lot of stress.

You are doing a remarkable job. You're a GREAT Mom!:)
-Susan

mypuppy

11-05-2011, 05:32 PM

oh Cindy,

Wish I can add some valuable info on foods, but Im in the same boat. I have used Merrick, Orijen and now Acana. I know these are suppose to be high quality foods, and I don't question that, I just think I am dealing with my finicky Princess. Do you feel that is the case with Penny or it's just that she is not hungry? I know how very frustrating this is. I have been stressing it this past week. I finally got her to eat last night by mixing some fat free/low sodium chicken breast, and she gobbled it all up, kibble and all. Hope it keeps working.

I really pray you find the reason for her not eating, and you find a good quality food she enjoys....

take care of you... Xo Jeanette

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 06:00 PM

Jeanette - she is hungry for sure and she wants to eat - i put the chicken in with the kibble and she ate just the chicken -- then i gave her just chicken and roast beef she gobbled it up and the neighbors grandkids just fed her cheese and she gobbled that up and she wants treats now - so she has an appetite just not for merrick kibble LOL - i will have to go to another kibble - she is finicky for sure!! You have the princess i have the queen - HAHA - they WANT WHAT THEY WANT ONLY !!!! Lol

mypuppy

11-05-2011, 06:54 PM

Cindy,

Tell her royal heiness, her royal Princess put her to shame tonight--she gobbled up all her kibble. Thank God. I have been watching my little one like a hawk last 2 days so that she doesn't sneak any food in her, and I have warned everyone not to give her an ounce of anything that is not kibble--lol. Tough love sure does break our hearts, but much better in the end. Wonder when Ill cave in?--:D

Ugh, good luck. I know this is a chore in itself. You can do this!

Xo Jeanette

Cyn719

11-05-2011, 11:11 PM

I told the queen that princess ate her food but the queen had an attitude tonight and didnt want to hear it - the new Wellness food did not go over well!! The neighbors are pretty good - they usually just give her a piece of cheese of a couple of dog cookies but the grandkids were there - they love her and she lays there like the Queen and they feed her and pet her - but they didnt give her that much where she would not eat - she is just picky picky picky - but when she was on her junky food Purina Pro Plan she ate - am I going to have to go back to that?? I say a quote Addy posted about dogs who ate more fat didnt have problems;);) may have to look into that?? but maybe she is just use to the Purina Pro Plan - I didnt realize it wasnt good till the friends here brought it to may attention - but shes been eating it for along time - not UTIs - no skin problems - no stomach problems - but not really good for a cush pup - we will see what tomrrow brings - you never now!!!!

SasAndYunah

11-06-2011, 08:19 AM

Still reading your posts and keeping up to date on you and Penny...

Sas and Yunah :)

Cyn719

11-06-2011, 01:07 PM

The queen ate her breakfast - the wellness mixed with merrick kibble - breakfast is easier cause she is hungry - i am monitoring her daily snacks - which usually isnt alot - i just want her to like her kibble since she has to eat it every day -- like i said she loved the purina but not good food ------ well i guess its like when we want that junk food some days -yummmm she wants her junk kibble back:)--hope she continues with the wellness - i reminded her again princess is being a good girl eating can she try to - so i embarassed her into it!!!ok will check in on everyone later - going to dinner with the parents - hubby -son - bro - neice for my 50th birthday!!!! No i am not 50 yet i have till tuesday so i amSTILL ONLY 49!!!!!!!!!!

jmac

11-06-2011, 08:31 PM

Happy early birthday! I hope you enjoyed your celebration!

Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-06-2011, 11:09 PM

Penny ate well twice today -- I think all that talk about Princess eating got to her:D:D She had a good day - even had a burst of energy!! She has 3 beds so I took the cover off the bed in the basement family room and put it in the washer and she decided to go on the uncovered bed and jump and dig and jump and dig and oh did I mention it was a foam egg crate bed so you know how that ended up:D But I dont care I just love that she had the energy to do it!!!!!!:):D Hope that her energy level stays up but we know tomorrow can bring anything:rolleyes:

Bailey's Mom

11-07-2011, 03:55 AM

Hello fellow owners of pets-with-finicky eating habits.
On Oct 26th we took Bailey to the vets to check out possible ear infection. While there we discussed Bailey's eating habits......which are....anything on the ground outside, the insides of stuffed toys, lambs ears, pig hooves, rawhide chews. She will not touch her food. If you put something on top to entice her, she will pick through her food. Vet said 1/8th cup of kibble with just a little moist food added to that. Once in the morning, once in the evening. Nothing else.
On day 6 Bailey finally ate her food. Six more days went by and she ate her food. We go back to the vet this Friday so we will have another 6 day period to judge. The vet said since she's only 10lbs, she doesn't need much. When she's hungry, she'll eat, she said. My concern (one of them) is that she is still a puppy and is she getting what she needs to become a strong, healthy dog. Other than that, she's happy, perky, playful, absolutely loves going on walks.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
-Susan

Cyn719

11-07-2011, 05:40 PM

Penny ate good again today:) Lots of energy --- ?? -- high cortisol levels I assume but I am not complaining -- she is a crazy dog today - she is actually carrying her bone with her - really havent seen that in ages -- vet is calling me today - I hope - I have questions and figured I will ask while they are on my mind

mypuppy

11-07-2011, 07:57 PM

Yayyyyyy Penny, glad your gobbling your chow like your friend Princess.

Glad for you too Cindy. I know in the big scheme of things, this may seem like a small step forward, but it really is huge when they eat.

keeping an eye out for more updates.

tight hugs. Xo Jeanette

addy

11-07-2011, 08:01 PM

Cindy-take the good day and enjoy it to the max:D:D:D:D

love,
addy

Cyn719

11-07-2011, 08:05 PM

Thanks Jeanette and Addy - I enjoy the good days - believe me I do - I have to she wont leave me alone - she wants to go out then she wants to go in then she wants more water then a treat then rub my ears then she starts from the beginning again:D:D I love it - its so nice to see her like this instead of laying flat on her side -- vet never called back:rolleyes: thats ok I didnt expect her to so maybe she will later or tomorrow

mypuppy

11-08-2011, 09:16 AM

HAPPY BIRTHDAY:)
TO YOU;)
CINDY...
CHA CHA CHA:p

May you be blessed with health
For both you and your sweet Penny,
Lots of love and joy....

Sending some very
Tight hugs on
Your special day...

Xo Your next door neighbors in NY
Jeanette, Princess and family:D:);):p

addy

11-08-2011, 10:34 AM

Birthday???????

Who has a birthday??????

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D:D:):):D:D:):):p:D:):)

AND MANY MORE TO FOLLOW,
addy

Squirt's Mom

11-08-2011, 11:08 AM

Happy, happy Birthday, Cindy!!!
...and many more!!!

Spiceysmum

11-08-2011, 11:14 AM

HAPPY 50TH BIRTHDAY CINDY!

Hope you have a great day with Penny and all of your family.

Linda x

Cyn719

11-08-2011, 12:21 PM

Thank you Jeanette - Addy - Linda and Leslie!!!!!! 50 is not to bad:D:D Started off well - my little girl chewed a bone today!!!!!!!! Yeah:D Its the Penny from a year ago- for today;) But it was nice - its so warm today - shes in the yard kicking up her heels!!:) Penny will be 12 in a week -- the 15th!!!:D

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-08-2011, 01:23 PM

Happy Birthday Cyn! and I'm glad to hear Penny is having a good day also!

lulusmom

11-08-2011, 04:02 PM

Happy Birthday, you spring chicken!

Bailey's Mom

11-08-2011, 05:08 PM

Fifty is the new 30!!:D
Happy birthday!:)
Susan

Cyn719

11-08-2011, 05:32 PM

Glynda - Susan and Judi - Thank you!!!!! Like that the new 30:D Yup spring chicken - but it isnt spring - ok maybe thats why I dont feel like one then!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

rbeasl

11-08-2011, 06:47 PM

Happy Birthday Cindy.... What a nice present to have your
little girl feeling good... She knows its your birthday:d,,, hope you have a fabulous day

Rhondalyn and Honey

Cyn719

11-08-2011, 10:36 PM

Thank you Rhondalyn!!!! Yeah she did have a good day -- but wow her cushings is roaring - the drinking is WOW and now the eating is kicking in - vet calling me tomorrow - I missed her call tonight - I was out -

Cyn719

11-08-2011, 10:53 PM

It was a funny moment -- I was on the phone talking to my brother about his dogs bath and he was telling me how Buddy did not want to get in the shower and I was saying how David has to drag Penny upstairs for her bath and she knows its coming before he even gets her and she hides and we find her shaking!!! Come on its only water!!!:D:D Well as I was hanging up David came in from work and said where is Penny - I said she was here a second ago - well I found her on the couch - curling up in a ball - shaking like a leaf- I said OMG is she ok - is it a seizure --- then we looked at each other and said OMG she listened to your phone conversation -- she thinks I am going to give he a bath!!!!!!!:D:D:eek::D:D She was listening!!!!!! I better be careful what I say from now on!!!!:p:D:) so cuteeeeee!!! So David got her leash and took her for alittle walk to clear her head!:D:D

mypuppy

11-09-2011, 10:03 AM

Dear Spring chicken,:D

HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! That story made me laugh so hard, I had to share with a couple of my school mom friends this morning. LOL. Penny is so smart, wow, and so adorable. I wonder what was goong thru her mind when she heard you on the phone. She probably wanted to run for the hills. Haaa.

Thanks for sharing. Too cute for words.

Hope you had a wonderful birthday.

Ps: how is the eating going?

Xo Jeanette

Squirt's Mom

11-09-2011, 11:41 AM

Oh, Cindy! That was funny! :p:D:p:D Squirt, too, knows the word "bath" but I have fooled her....she loves to go with me to take my baths; she lays in the bathroom floor, sharing the time and room with no one but her mom. So when she hears "bath" she never knows exactly who is going to end up in the water. :D When she realizes it's not her turn, she gets really happy to be in the bathroom! :p

Cyn719

11-09-2011, 01:09 PM

Jeanette yes it was too funny - to see a 77 lb dog curled up in a ball shaking to death - i really thought it was some type of seizure - I wasnt thinking about my phone call at all - hahaha -- eating is going well - she seems to like the Wellness for now - never know:D

Leslie -- see Squirt gets its to:D - that is their bad 4 letter word!!:D:D they just hear that word and say run or stay - run or stay - So cute that Squirt likes alone time with mom in the bathroom :) If I am in the tub Penny wont walk in there if you offered her a steak!! lol Our pups are just soooo smart!!!

jmac

11-09-2011, 06:04 PM

Cindy-
I love that story! Too funny! I hope you had a great birthday!
Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-09-2011, 06:32 PM

Thanks Julie I did ---- we went to ShoGun one night with our friends (Hibachi style) and Sunday I went to Spain Restaurant - steak - sea food spanish rice dishes - last night Asia Grille and one more birthday dinner at a private dinner club (fancy but girlfriends boyfriend belongs and wants to take hubby and me for my 50th) OMG too many dinners I better eat carrots for for dinner for the next week or two!! There goes the diet!!!! But its been nice!!!

Cyn719

11-09-2011, 11:30 PM

OK REALLY PENNY - YOU REALLY DONT LIKE YOUR NEW WELLNESS KIBBLE --- UGGGG I THOUGHT SHE LIKED IT BUT NOW SHES NOT - AND SHE HAS AN APPETITE FOR CHICKEN ROAST BEEF CHEESE BUT NOT KIBBLE - I PUT THE BEEF IN HER FOOD AND SHE PICKS IT OUT - I LEFT THE KIBBLE IN HER DISH FOR HOURS WONT EAT IT - I LIMITED HER TREATS - I GUESS I WILL GIVE IT A FEE MORE DAYS - MAYBE SHE DOESNT LIKE THE FLAVOR OF THIS FOOD??

HomeDog WellnessDry RecipesCORE® Reduced Fat Recipe

Wellness® CORE® Reduced Fat Formula dry dog food is based on the nutritional philosophy that dogs, based on primal ancestry, thrive on a diet mainly comprised of meat. Each kibble is packed with a high concentration of quality animal protein, without fillers or grains, along with a proprietary blend of botanicals and nutritional supplements including probiotics.
Protein-Rich: Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal & Chicken Meal
54% more protein than Wellness Super5Mix® Complete Health Recipes
Helps support ideal weight with 25% less fat than CORE Original Formula & increased fiber to help feel full longer
A Grain-Free choice for dogs over 1 year who are less active or need to lose weight
Nutrient-rich ingredients such as kale, broccoli, spinach & parsley are chosen for their naturally unique dietary contributions

Deboned Turkey, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Peas, Dried Ground Potatoes, Pea Fiber, Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Chicken Liver, Natural Chicken Flavor, Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins [Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Biotin, Folic Acid], Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols added to preserve freshness, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract.

This is a naturally preserved product.

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein

min.
33%

Crude Fat

min.
10%

Crude Fat
max.
12%

Crude Fiber
max.
8.5%

Moisture
max.
10%

Calcium
max.
1.9%

Phosphorus
max.
1.3%

Vitamin E
min.
200 IU/kg

Omega 6 Fatty Acids*
min.
2.2%

Omega 3 Fatty Acids*
min.
0.40%

Glucosamin Hydrochloride*
min.
250 mg/kg

Chondroitin Sulfate*
min.
200 mg/kg

Beta-Carotene*
min.
5 mg/kg

Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms*
min.
80,000,000 CFU/lb

(L.plantarum, E. faecium, L. casei, L. acidophilus in equal amounts)

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

100% Complete and Balanced Nutrition for Your Adult Dog

Wellness CORE Reduced Fat Formula Adult Dog Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for maintenance.

lulusmom

11-10-2011, 01:56 AM

Hi Cindy,

I think dogs get tired of kibble. It really is a boring looking and not so aromatic meal. If you have a Petsmart of Petco in your area, pick up a chub of Deli Fresh chicken or turkey in the refrigerated section. Slice off a piece at the 1/4lb or 1/2lb mark on the roll and smoosh it into the kibble really well. They have the really big chubs and the smaller ones so you may want to get the smaller first to see how she likes it. I predict she'll wolf it down. I haven't met a dog yet that doesn't love it. My mom's dog is on it now after her pancreatitis attack and is doing great on it.

labblab

11-10-2011, 09:10 AM

Hey Cindy and Glynda,

I just want to warn both you guys that the chicken and turkey Deli Fresh rolls, while probably being very tasty, are very high in fat. Cindy, per Dr. Peterson's recommendation, I know you are trying to stick to a low-fat diet due to Penny's elevated triglycerides. And Glynda, after your mom's dog's pancreatitis attack, I don't know whether you'd prefer a food with a somewhat lower fat content. Here's the analysis for the Deli Fresh:

1318 kcal/kg
6% fat per the label
25% fat on a "dry matter basis"
45.5 GFK (grams of fat per 1000 kcal, and probably the best indicator of how "fatty" your dog's actual food intake will be)

Per Mary Straus in her dogaware.com article re: low fat foods (http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjlowfatdiets.html), veterinary nutritionists consider a fat content above 20% on a dry matter basis to be high fat. And to be considered low fat, it must be below 25 GFK. Ever since Peg's pancreatitis attack, I have become obsessed with fat content. :o :o :o

Cindy, I know it's really important to get Penny to eat. But if you do want to use the Deli Fresh, I would just warn you to use a minimal amount so as not to give a big bump to her fat intake.

Marianne

mypuppy

11-10-2011, 10:00 AM

Hi Cindy,

Im sorry Penny is back to not liking her kibble. I can truly relate to your frustration? UGHHHHHH..... When Princess turns her nose up to hers, it sets me into an awful mood.:mad:

I have to say Princess has been doing great on the ACANA Wild Prairie, and I cut up 2 slices of Boars head low fat/low sodium chicken breast, and she eats it right up. I have cut back from 4 treats per day to 2 instead, and that has been key in all this I think? Also, a certain someone not feeding her any extra stuff from her plate (hint, hint: my 7 year old)....LOL..

Marianne, seeing that you are "obsessed" with fat content, would you say the ACANA is a lower fat than the Orijen, although I know they are both from the same makers? It's protein is a bit lower I know. Thanks..

Cindy, I hope you find a solution soon..I know you can't go on that way....

Thinking of you and your girl..

xo Jeanette

labblab

11-10-2011, 10:30 AM

Cindy, hope you won't mind a quick "hijack" of your thread...;)

But Jeanette, no, the Acana Wild Prairie kibble is no lower in fat than the Orijen Adult. They both have 17% fat listed on the bag. And since Acana has a few less calories than the Orijen, it actually translates into a slightly higher overall fat intake because theoretically you'd be feeding a little more of the Acana to equal the same calorie content as the Orijen. Here's the comparison:

Acana: 45.6 grams of fat per 1000 kcals.
Orijen: 43.6 grams of fat per 1000 kcals.

So both of these kibbles are relatively high in fat. That is why I didn't return Peg to the Acana after her pancreatitis, even though I continue to feed it to my Luna and she is doing great on it.

Marianne

clydetheboosmom

11-10-2011, 10:39 AM

Hi Cindy.

Wow, I am woefully behind, and I just got caught up on your thread. I live very close to you, and Asia Grille, btw, is awesome :) I hope you enjoyed your birthday dinner there!

So, it seems like you and Penny have had quite a ride! And now she doesn't want her kibble? Hmmmm, how picky of her! :p :D

You have gotten some excellent advice. I never had the food problem with my lab (go figure) but my AmStaff, well....she would occasionally turn up her nose at some kibble. I would sometimes heat up to just warm some fat free/low sodium beef or chicken broth, and pour it over the food. Or sometimes, I would cook and egg and put it in there.

I hope things are going better. I will continue to follow your thread. I had a fabulous endocrinologist/internist at Tufts...if you ever need anything re: local info, let me know :)

Lynne, Angel Bailey, Angel Clyde

Cyn719

11-10-2011, 12:36 PM

Lynne -- Hi Neighbor !!! Yes any information you have I will take - I have gone to Tufts with my goldens and Penny was there not to long ago to have her teeth pulled - I do have a vet at Ocean State in East Greenwich - she is ok but time will tell ----I have a close friend who lives in Mass also - I did get to read your thread but I did see you want to adopt - I am very happy for you - my little girl came from the SPCA and she is a special girl for sure!!! - Good luck in your search

To all of you - thank you as always for your advice - this food she is starting not to like she has only been on for a week and a half -- Penny!!!!!!!!!!! lol well she did eat breakfast so I will stick with it for another week -- I do put canned food in with it but it is the Merrick canned food and I have been using it for awhile now so maybe I need a different cannned food - anyone have good luck with any - Glynda I can try the roll in small amounts - the pet store near me doesnt carry it but Petco is near my husbands fire station so he can pick it up -- The Queen really likes roast beef now I am wondering if that isnt a good idea ???? So maybe I need to switch to the chicken breast?? Something new everyday with the cush pups!!!!!:)

addy

11-10-2011, 02:34 PM

Per Mary Straus in her dogaware.com article re: low fat foods, veterinary nutritionists consider a fat content above 20% on a dry matter basis to be high fat. And to be considered low fat, it must be below 25 GFK. Ever since Peg's pancreatitis attack, I have become obsessed with fat content.

I am so freaked about about Zoe's high fat sled dog diet, I can't even go there.

Marianne,

what is weirder is Zoe' cholesteral is no high than when she ate dry Canidae and Hills; canned ID:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o and all her blood work looks really good. will the urinalysis be the proof on the pudding?

Sorry, Cindy, for highjacking but I love this fat discussion:D:D

bad girl addy

mypuppy

11-10-2011, 03:18 PM

OMG.....I GIVE UP......

:mad:[/U][/I][/I]

PS: WHO NEEDS FAT ANYWAY...:D

Cyn719

11-10-2011, 05:31 PM

Marianne and Bad Girl Addy - I love to be hijacked:D makes things more interesting!!:D:D Love this discussion because I find this food thing so confusing for sure:confused: low fat high protien but dont do no fat cause that is bad - I got that - Penny cholesteral is high so I do need to stay low fat - well right now the Wellness looks good numbers wise but then I thought that about another food and I was wrong - one of you calculated it for me - I hope this one looks ok - maybe I need to get a different Merrick canned food or/and try the Deli Roll just using small amounts - so fussy - Really - then went I lived at home we gave our dog table scraps and she lived to 17!!! So go figure! Head is spinning!!:eek::D I hear what you are saying Addy - good question - then somewhere eles not sure if it was you Addy or who but was saying the ACTH could be elevated from stress - Penny was so stressed out if that it true how much can it really raise the stim? So many how comes - why - ifs - buts - should ofs - we are all in the same big boat for sure!!!!!!

Cyn719

11-10-2011, 09:40 PM

Vet called finally - pepcid ac fine twice a day just before i feed her - said low fat good protein diet not to to high protein - she finds that senior foods seem to have to much protein in it so reduced fat kibble is good and adult canned is good - said she is ok with Pennys 11 right now - wants to finish testing and her plan may be a very very low dose of lyso - said she would talk to me about it after testing but doesnt want to do it the reg way doing it a very low dose way??? not sure there dont know anything about the lyso -- Penny ate well today - I swear she eats better when my husband feeds her - go figure!!!! Back legs are very weak when she was eating the back legs were going down:( poor baby - still doing the dasaquin - the adequan and very low dose of rimadyl - hope this rain is gone by tomorrow --

StarDeb55

11-10-2011, 10:28 PM

Just making a guess here, Cindy. It sounds like your IMS may want to try Penny on a maintenance dose of lysodren without going through a full blow load. The loading phase is where things can go bad very quickly if you have a vet who doesn't know what they're doing & an inattentive owner. Maintenance dosing is what is usually used with Atypical pups who have normal cortisol when the melatonin + lignans doesn't work.

Debbie

Cyn719

11-10-2011, 10:39 PM

Yes Debbie I just came back to look at computer - I wrote notes down when I was talking to IMS she said a maintenance dose cause Penny was so so sensitive to the trilo she wants to be very cautious with her -- we will see what the ultra sound shows and the xrays - I assume checking the chest for any tumors and the ultra sound to check all the organs - we know the liver is very large -- she said she wouldnt start the lyso until she is eating good - why does this both the stomach or she just wants her as healthy as possible to start the lyso??

mypuppy

11-11-2011, 09:27 AM

Cindy,

I'm sorry I have nothing valuable to add about the lyso. I know how scary this all is for you right now. I'd probably be too and in same boat if ims was a lyso advocate, so im stuck with trilo. When is Penny going for her other tests? My prayers for good results on those, and praying you can get your girl stabilized again.

Off to the rat races.

All our love to you and Penny girl...

Xo Jeanette

Squirt's Mom

11-11-2011, 10:07 AM

Hi Cindy,

I, for one, am glad your vet is willing to try the Lyso. I remain the odd bird out here as I am much more comfortable with Lysodren than with Trilostane. :o;):)

A few things to point out - Lysodren works entirely differently than Trilostane.

Trilo's job is to interrupt the pathway so the signal to release more cortisol is never receive by the adrenal glands. Sort of like cutting a telephone line - calls will still be made to you but you won't receive them on your end of the line.

Lysodren works only on the glands themselves by eroding a minuscule layer of the outer cortex of the adrenal glands so they cannot "hear" the signal being sent. This "deafening" of the glands is accomplished during the loading phase, then the maintenance dose does just what the name implies - it maintains the level of "deafness" accomplished in the loading phase.

This difference in the way the two drugs work means that just because a pup is sensitive to one does NOT mean they are necessarily sensitive to both. The two work in different ways. So Penny may do wonderfully on Lyso. ;) In the cush world, it is GOOD to have options! :)

If you are following normal protocol and doing a loading phase, then I would agree with your vet to wait until she is eating better. The reason for this is that during the load, a decrease in appetite is one of the main signs that the adrenals are correctly "deafened" and it is time to stop the loading dose. In a pup with poor appetite, this sign could be missed or misinterpreted, leading to a crisis of the cortisol going too low.

I am not sure about starting with a low maintenance dose - since Lyso works by eroding the glands, this may not have much benefit for Penny. BE SURE your vet knows how to work with Lyso - that she understands the two drugs work in entirely different ways and that she has used it before successfully. You know we will be right here to back you and Penny up every day.

Could you remind of a couple of things?...

How long has Penny been off the Trilo?

How long was she off before the last ACTH was done?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-11-2011, 11:46 AM

Thanks for the infor Leslie - She has been off trilo since 9/27/11 and has not been back on anything yet and the ACTH was done a week ago with the post being 11 ----- the vet did mention she still feels the glands were damaged when my vet gave her the high dose of trilo so my question would be for her then why are you using lyso since that erodes the thin cortex layer of the glands? I feel like she knows what she is doing - she said this is one of her specialties - I hope:rolleyes:

Cyn719

11-11-2011, 01:14 PM

Thanks Jeanette - it never ends as you no - we will see what testing brings ----- but she is feeling pretty good - except for those hind legs :(- we all know our dogs and we know what they do when they are happy - Penny will go find her bone and enjoy it for a little while and she has been doing that for the past 6 days:) She is outside chewing on it right now with the wind blowing in her face:D Shes happy- i am happy - hope it continues - :rolleyes:

Rebelsmom

11-11-2011, 04:07 PM

Hey Cindy, just checking in and catching up on your Penny. I don't have much to offer with the Lyso but i have heard that they recommend a 30 day wash out before switching to the other med.

Hugs from Fl..

Bailey's Mom

11-12-2011, 12:48 AM

Hi Cindy-
My it's been busy over here on this thread!

Leslie-I want to thank you for your detailed explanation. I never knew all that. I hope I never need the information, but I will tuck it away.

Cindy-what about asking the vet for a reference from a happy customer? If she'd give you the phone number, not only might it help build the confidence in your vet, but it also will give you another cush Mom to share with.
-Susan

Cyn719

11-12-2011, 01:00 AM

Hi Susan - yup Penny keeps this thread busy for sure ---- I called my orthopedic and he said I am in safe hands with the IMS -- he said we are so lucky to have her here at Ocean State - she is very smart and knows her stuff - I value his opinion - he had done so good with Penny I need to believe he would only stir me in the right direction - I guess I and second guessing everything cause I had faith in my vet and she was not honest with me --

Isnt Leslies answers great!!! I love the way she describes things - I always can understand what she is saying - she described to me how cushings works - the gland acts like a sponge etc - she made it so easy to understand!! Thanks Leslie:):)

Yes Penny keeps me on my feet - tonight we came home - she was so happy - I let her out to the bathroom and she was trotting around my car - took a right hand turn and WIPED OUT and fell on her right side :eek::eek: of course on her bad leg and hip!!! I dont know if she took the corner to fast or that bad leg just gave out -- Penny!!!!!!!!!!!! So giving her a Tramadol and a extra half just in case - hope she is ok in the AM - Nite xo

Squirt's Mom

11-12-2011, 09:41 AM

She has been off trilo since 9/27/11 and has not been back on anything yet and the ACTH was done a week ago with the post being 11.....

Hi Cindy,

Could you give the reference range for that post # of 11? Seems to me since Penny has been off Trilo for that length of time, we would read the results as if she were NOT a cush pup. But, I could be totally wrong; hopefully someone with more savvy in this area will let us know for sure. But that reference range will help. ;)

Hope you and Penny have a great day!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

11-12-2011, 03:50 PM

Leslie - no I dont have the lab - I will get it but I believe the vet said the range was up to 20 or 22 -- going back to my post #824 when I posted - I said the vet said it was normal for a dog not on trilo - but then the others posted me and said if she is a cush pup it is not normal - and thats where I got confused - but with Debs and Kims help I now totally understand the difference with the ACTH test and the low dose test -- in Sept 2010 her low dose was 4.2 saying she had cushings but I didnt know that it could be a false positive -- I think that was Kim that it happened to -- the other day the vet still said she is happy with the 11 for now till we do more testing----- Pennys drinking is not to bad - her eating is good - just starting to see alittle bit of panting ---- so she does not want her on any meds right now --- ??

Penny is on her feet so she didnt hurt her leg/hip to much when she fell -- thank God!

Skye

11-13-2011, 02:40 AM

hey my friend, just checking in on you both!

Cyn719

11-13-2011, 02:12 PM

Thanks Skye ---- doing ok - eating is good (does beg alot for other things besides her food) drinking isnt normal but isnt totally excessive - back legs are weak and I know she is feeling some pain from the fall the other night -- so stable right now -- Hugsssss

Cyn719

11-13-2011, 02:14 PM

Question - does anyone have any input on Yeast infections - my bro has a golden/lab with skin issues forever - goes to a dermatoligist for the skin problems - shots - antibiotics etc but cant get past this yeast infection on his skin - poor baby is so sick from the meds and itching - Thanks

Roxee's Dad

11-13-2011, 03:05 PM

Hi Cindy,

Question - does anyone have any input on Yeast infections - my bro has a golden/lab skin issues forever - goes to a dermatoligist for the skin problems - shots - antibiotics etc but cant get past this yeast infection on his sink

Has he tried a diet change?? I have seen where a low grain or grain free diet has improved yeasty skin.

Cyn719

11-13-2011, 03:42 PM

Thanks John I will pass that on to him:)

lulusmom

11-13-2011, 07:45 PM

Hi Cindy,

Please tell your brother that I feel for his dog and for him. Yeast infections are tremendously itchy and very smelly. I've dealt with it a lot in rescue dogs and it's torture for the poor dogs. Please share this link to Dr. Karen Becker's video below with your brother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl_X1I1GJ1Q

In my experience, diet and bathing with appropriate medicated, antifungal shampoos are key. I rescue small dogs so bathing is a lot easier or me than it will be for your brother.

Cyn719

11-13-2011, 09:58 PM

Glynda - thanks so much I just sent him the link -- his dog is big and he is so itchy and really smells and the baths are not working - so I hope what the vet on the video said will help him - fingers (paws) crossed!!

Bailey's Mom

11-14-2011, 05:59 AM

Question - does anyone have any input on Yeast infections - my bro has a golden/lab skin issues forever - goes to a dermatoligist for the skin problems - shots - antibiotics etc but cant get past this yeast infection on his sink - poor baby is so sick from the meds and itching - Thanks
I want to thank John for his response. I was having a very hard time about how and why Cindy's brother had a yeast infection on his sink. When I realized it was a typo, I gave myself a good laugh.
-Susan

Cyn719

11-14-2011, 11:49 AM

hahahahahaha Susan - I just had a good laugh also:D:D ok I fixed it so I dont make others think our sinks could have yeast!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

marie adams

11-14-2011, 12:44 PM

Hi Cindy,

Ella has problems with yeast also. Not so bad that she is constantly biting and itching, but her one paw and gential area. The vet said not to be worried about the gential area he has a 6 yr old dog that contantly has the reddish coloring.

This is how I have been dealing with it: yogurt in her food, no grains in her diet or goodies, I got a tree tea shampoo not oatmeal type, you can use white vinegar/hydrogen perioxde/water mixture on it. I have now changed to lamb and no chicken in her diet also.

Ella is not really uncomfortable with it, but she does go after her one paw more than I like. I know one of my dog friends uses products like Lotrimin type products on some of the hot spots.

I hope this helps your brother.

Cyn719

11-14-2011, 12:58 PM

Marie - yogurt in the food once a day or each meal?? and the shampoo you buy that at a health store?? The mixture you make do you use that as a pre mixture to the bath?? Thanks for your help - I am going to see my brother today and I will pass this on to him -

Cyn719

11-15-2011, 02:33 AM

My baby is going to be 12 years old on the 16th!!!!! She has been through so much - this is going to be a special one for sure!!!!!!!!!:)

Skye

11-15-2011, 03:08 AM

I had read some mixed reviews on the yogurt, is it pasturized or nonpasturized and is it sugar free? I had also read it can cause dehydration. Dr. Karen Becker who has loads of YOUTUBE videos which makes for awesome learning, has talked about yogurt.
She is one of the top ten vets in Chicago I believe, and she is a holistic vet.

Squirt's Mom

11-15-2011, 10:58 AM

Squirt's menu calls for low-fat, plain, organic yogurt. I was told to never use the flavored varieties because of the higher sugar content.

I have used it as a topper to help with digestive issues in several babies but use it sparingly and only as needed - not on a daily basis (other than what is in Squirt's feed). Skye is right - there are so many different opinions out there about the benefits, or lack of, when it comes to yogurt. It has been my experience that the use of yogurt is highly individualized. I have had babies who can take it and have it help settle digestive issues; on the flip side, I have had babies who got immediately sick after eating yogurt. It is a dairy product which means it has lactose and some babies simply cannot handle lactose. So, if you want to try some with Penny, I say go for it - just start low and watch her for any digestive upset that may follow. If you see anything, you will know yogurt is something she doesn't need to eat.

Hope you have a great day!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

apollo6

11-15-2011, 07:59 PM

Dear Cindy
hear is quote I got from info from Rene. in my case Mites like yeast so I need a yeast free diet.

11. Yeast free natural diet: Demodex mites feed on systemic yeast in the body, and the systemic yeast feed on the dietary yeast and/or sugar in the system (blood sugar).Plain kefir is a wonderful anti-yeast food, in moderation. Plain yogurt is a secondary substitute. Acidophilus/lactobacillus (pro-biotics) supplementation is preferred because overall, dairy will feed yeast. No cheese, no cottage cheese, no potatoes, carrots, yams, if grains have to be used, make sure they are whole grains and not refined. No sweeteners of any kind, including molasses, honey, etc. Many have reported good results from supplementing with Immune Factor bovine colostrums, which is a pro-biotic that works in the lower digestive tract.
I hope this helps a little.
Sorry I have not checked in on you. You have been so kind to me.
I will be praying for you and Penny-another of our little warriors.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Happy Happy Birthday Sweet Cindy. Make sure Mom gives you lots of treats, hugs, and presents.
there are many anti fungal shampoos out there
I am going to start Apollo on Eqyss Micr-Tek shampoo made in San Diego.
see below.
http://www.amazon.com/Micro-Tek-Pet-Shampoo-16-ounces/dp/B00061MP8S/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1321401774&sr=1-3-catcorr

Cyn719

11-15-2011, 08:41 PM

John Glynda Marie Skye Leslie and Sonja My brother said Thank you for all the info - hes looking into all of it - he watched the video also --

Sonja - do not apologize about not checking in - right now you need to just concentrating on Apollo - thank you for your bday wishes and I always right here for you and Apollo -- Hugsssss love support strength and prayers xoxo

Skye

11-15-2011, 11:25 PM

Hello my friend!!!!! just checking in and seeing how things are going and how Penny is doing. and how YOUR doing.
not a day passes I dont think of you and your penny. Shysie and a i are coming at you both with paws and arms opened wide to give lots of big hugs.

Cyn719

11-15-2011, 11:59 PM

Hi Skye thanks for checking in - doing ok - fibro is not to good - really hurts this month alot -- Penny is doing ok then today she fell alot - those back legs are so so weak and getting worse -- but tomorrow hoping for a good day

Penny will be 12 tomorrow!!!!!:D

I love your dogs name Shysie - so cute!!!!!!! Give Shysie a nice belly rub for me and a kiss from my Penny ---- Hugssssss to you - always in my prayers and thoughts xoxo

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 01:25 AM

Skye - you said Shysie is a mini pinscher right?? Just checking bad memory - lol xo

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 01:33 AM

Happy 12th Birthday to my beautiful Penny!!!!!!!

Its been a roller coaster ride Penny and you have been so good through all of it!!! - We wish you a wonderful 12th birthday!! We love you so much Penny Poo!!!!!!!!!!

Love Mom Dad and Mike xoxoxoxoxoxoxo

Spiceysmum

11-16-2011, 05:18 AM

HAPPY 12TH BIRTHDAY PENNY!

Hope you enjoy your special day with lots of treats.

Linda x

mypuppy

11-16-2011, 06:55 AM

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!:p
Happy Birthday to you...cha cha cha:)
Happy Birthday to you...cha cha cha;)
Happiest Birthday dearest Penny Girl....cha cha cha:p
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUUU...cha cha cha:)

May you be blessed with so much love (we know you are), and lots of health. Enjoy your day with your beautiful mom and dad and family, you deserve each other. And a great big treat too, yummy!

We love you lots here next door:D

Your auntie Jeanette and cousin Princess and family....

Xo

addy

11-16-2011, 09:30 AM

The HAPPIEST of BIRTHDAYS dear PENNY The HAPPIEST of BIRTHDAYS to YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Harley PoMMom

11-16-2011, 09:51 AM

HAPPY 12TH BIRTHDAY PENNY!

With much love, Lori

Jenny & Judi in MN

11-16-2011, 10:18 AM

Happy Birthday Penny! I hope you have a really good day!

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 12:53 PM

Linda, Auntie Jeanette, Cousin Princess, Addy, Lori and Judi--

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE BIRTHDAY WISHES!!! I GAVE PENNY A KISS FROM EACH OF YOU!!!

She is having a good day - shes outside on duty watching the neighborhood - Lol --- Hugsssssssssss

Nika'sMom

11-16-2011, 01:04 PM

I too am wishing Penny a very Happy 12th Birthday!!!!!Please give her a kiss from me as well, and a lick from my Nika....

labblab

11-16-2011, 01:05 PM

Happy Birthday, Penny, from me, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:) :p :D :) :p :D :) :p :D :) :p :D :) :p :D :)

Marianne

Squirt's Mom

11-16-2011, 01:58 PM

Happy Birthday, PennyPoo!!
We love you!!!
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, and Brick

PS. Squirt says - steak, lightly grilled and topped with a fried egg over-easy, with a side of fried egg over-easy! :D

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 03:07 PM

Thank you Lynda, Marianne, Leslie and all the pups!!!!!! I passed on the hugs and kisses to Penny!

Tell Squirt Penny is having her steak for dinner tonight - but she wont eat the egg:D:D- so funny I took her out a small steak this morning to defrost so she could have it with her dinner:D:) Oh what we do for our babies!!!!!!!! xoxoxoxo

Rebelsmom

11-16-2011, 04:44 PM

Happy Birthday Penny!! Hope you have a great day..

Hugs and belly rubs from us.. Oh and lots of kisses, esp from Sadie since she has a tongue control issue..lol

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 06:23 PM

Thanks Melissa - Penny loved the belly rub and kisses!!!

Right now I am cooking her a steak - her nose is going crazy!!:D:D My husband came in and said steaks tonight?? I said noooooo thats Pennys birthday dinner!!!1:D:D:D:D:D:D:D xo

Bailey's Mom

11-16-2011, 06:46 PM

I too am wishing Penny a very Happy 12th Birthday!!!!!Please give her a kiss from Bailey as well, and a lick from me. OH WAIT!! I got that backwards!!;)
Steak, huhmmmmmmmmmmmm? What time should we be there?;)

Happy birthday to youuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Happy birthday to youuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Happy birthday dear Penny
We all love you too!! :D:D:)
-Susan

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 07:06 PM

Susan - Thank you!! your posts always make me laugh!!!!!! ok I gave her a kiss and a lick:D:D The things we do for our pups!!!! yup she had her steak - and I gave her a piece and she loved it - put it in her food and she just looked at it then me -- I was like nooooooo you cant just have steak!!!!!!! Yeah she finally ate the whole thing!!!! Fussy Penny Poo!!!!!!!

jmac

11-16-2011, 10:16 PM

Happy birthday to Penny!!!

Julie & Hannah

Cyn719

11-16-2011, 11:09 PM

Thanks Julie -- Penny enjoyed her day!!! she is fast asleep now - that wont last long - whe likes to go out like 11-1130!!:)

apollo6

11-16-2011, 11:36 PM

Happy Happy Birthday dear sweet Penny
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

lulusmom

11-17-2011, 01:36 AM

Happy Birthday, Penny!

Skye

11-17-2011, 02:04 AM

sooooooooooooooo sorry this is late!!!!!!! BUT HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!!! HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!!!! HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY DEAR PENNNNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU!!!!! WOOFWOOF!!!!! paw hugs, hugs, and pup kisses!!!!

marie adams

11-17-2011, 11:56 AM

I"m late I'm late for a very important date!!!

HAPPY 12th BIRTHDAY PENNY!!!!

So glad she loved her steak!!!!

Cyn719

11-17-2011, 04:59 PM

Thank so much Glynda, Sonja, Skye and Marie - :):)

Casey's Mom

11-18-2011, 09:24 AM

It is a joy to celebrate each birthday - HAPPY BIRTHDAY PENNY
:D:D:D
Hugs and belly rubs,

SasAndYunah

11-18-2011, 04:19 PM

A bit late but not less heartfelt,

Happy Birthday Penny! :) :) :)

Saskia and Yunah :)

Cyn719

11-18-2011, 05:43 PM

Ellen and Sas - Thanks you!!:):):)

ShannonJ92

11-19-2011, 12:27 AM

Happy belated b-day to Penny! :)

~Shannon

Skye

11-19-2011, 03:58 AM

checking in on you and Penny.............(((((hugs))))

Cyn719

11-19-2011, 11:51 AM

Thank you Shannon!!!!:)

Cyn719

11-24-2011, 12:04 PM

To My Beautiful K9 Family -

Words could never express my thanks to each and everyone one of you for all you have done for me and my Penny. We all know if it wasnt for all of you Penny would not be here today. I am so thankful to all of you and so thankful I still have her with me. My heart and my blessings goes out to all of you who have lost a precious furbaby.

I wish all of you, your family and your furbabies a very special and blessed THANKSGIVING!!

Love you all very much!!!!!! xoxoxoxo

jmac

11-30-2011, 11:46 PM

Cindy-
I saw your post on Addy's page and I am so glad to hear Penny is doing well. That is always such a wonderful feeling! It's nice to be off the roller coaster for a while! I hope that continues!

Hannah gets a blood test tomorrow to see how her ALKP level is after being off Anipryl for a month. We assumed that lowered it significantly so now that she's off of it (with no visible changes) we want to see if it has increased again. I'll be posting the results.

Take care!

Julie & Hannah

addy

12-02-2011, 09:38 AM

Oh Cindy, I was pleased to read your post about Penny feeling better.:):):):D:D:D:D

Hey nothing wrong with 11. I happen to love that number;);)

love,
addy

Skye

12-05-2011, 12:35 AM

have you ever heard of those adequan injections for dogs? I have heard amazing results about them. Maybe Penny would be good candidate for them?

Cyn719

12-05-2011, 01:23 AM

Can anyone tell me how much fish oil should I give penny a day - she weights 77 lbs -- and do you give it to her whole or squeeze the oil into the food?? Thanks xo

Cyn719

12-05-2011, 10:34 PM

Penny is on the Adequan shots - the Dasaquin - pepcid - and I want to start fish oil - should I just squeeze the liquid from the pill into her food and how much for a 77 lb dog?? Thanks

Skye

12-06-2011, 02:18 AM

hmmm i am not sure how much mg wise would be a good safe dose, but i would think just using a pill pocket or putting it in food would work (?) that way maybe she wont taste it? i have not heard of fish oil..........that helps with pain?
i will see if i can find out anything on dosage
hang in there hun.......
love and hugs from me and my girls.

Squirt's Mom

12-06-2011, 11:17 AM

Hi Cindy,

The oil I use has the dosing on the bottle. I use a liquid form as it is much easier to give since mine are too small to swallow those huge capsules the oil usually comes in. Here is one dosing guideline tho -

http://benefitsoffishoilforhealth.blogspot.com/2009/10/fish-oil-dosage-for-dogs.html

To get the proper dosage for your dog you must first know your dogs weight, with that in your mind you must times the weight by 20 to get the daily dosage of fish oil in mg. There for if your dog weighs 100 pounds your dog will get 2,000 mg of fish oil. Here is a quick chart of fish oil for dogs dosages-

Weight of dog Daily fish oil dosage for dogs
5lbs 100mg
10lbs 200mg
20lbs 400mg
30lbs 500mg
50lbs 1000mg
100lbs 2000mg

I use Only Natural Pet's salmon oil and really like it!

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Pure-Salmon-Oil/999060.aspx

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

12-06-2011, 07:00 PM

Leslie -- Thanks so much - Penny loves fish!!! If I am eating tuna she is in my lap so she probably with like this - I will check out the link -- Hope all is well on your end ??? xoxoxoxoxo

Squirt's Mom

12-06-2011, 07:09 PM

You're welcome, sweetie! Things are pretty good on our end all things considered. Squirt scared me last week but all she has to do is break wind with a little whistle that is new and I'm off the deep end, as you know. :p She was back to herself in a day or two and I wasn't far behind. ;) I knew she was better when she started gripping at Trink and Brick for breathing on her! :D:p:D:p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

apollo6

12-07-2011, 12:21 AM

Dear Cindy and Penny
this is what I have given Apollo

http://www.amazon.com/Iceland-Pure-Salmon-Oil-33/dp/B000XFRE6U/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1323231567&sr=8-19

Icelandic Salmon Oilcame from the pure waters of Iceland. Aminister by mixing with your pet's food. For animal use only. Iceland Pure Salmon Oil is an excellent source of Omega 3 and 6 essential fatty acids. Use as a dialy nutritional supplement to obtain the many benefits of essential fatty acids, including skin and coat health. Includes pump. Feeding instructions:1-20 lbs - 1 pump daily20-50 lbs - 4 pumps daily75-100 lbs - 6 pumps daily100 + lbs - 8 pumps daily Guaranteed Analysis (per teaspoon (4,700 mg): Omega 3 fatty acids max*2820 mgOmegas 6 fatty acids max470 mgCrude protein 0%Crude fat min*99.9%Moisture Max 0.01%Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 1410 mg Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 940 mg Ingredients: Salmon Oil, mixed tocopherols ( a preservation ) *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog & Cat food nutrient profile.

Sorry have not been keeping up with anyone.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

Cyn719

12-07-2011, 01:46 AM

Squirt is keeping mom on her toes for sure!!! Lol glad she is back to herself -:) xo

Cyn719

12-07-2011, 01:48 AM

Thanks sonja for the infor - do not apologize for not keeping up with everyone --- you have your hands full right now with apollo - just take care of your little guy - sending you lots of love - prayers -strength - support and hugssssssssss xoxoxoxo

Skye

12-07-2011, 04:27 PM

MMMUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! and (((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))
lol.......................thinking of you my friend, and Shysie and I decided to send HUGE big wet puppy kisses your way..........lol well.............okay......shysie is 18 pounds to compared to shepherd may not be all that big of hugs and kisses.....but they are HUGE for a min pin. lol
wanting you to know you are being thought of lots today, and thank you for all the care and smiles and warmth you have brought our way.

Cyn719

12-08-2011, 11:47 AM

Penny loves kisses!!!! lol

addy

12-24-2011, 09:44 AM

OMG!!! I went to find your thread and it was on PAGE TWO:eek::eek:

Not sure if that is good or bad;);););)

Hope you have a great holiday!!!!!!! I hope Penny gets lots of presents too:D:D:D:D:D:D

Merry Christmas Cindy!

Hugs,
addy

Cyn719

12-24-2011, 02:53 PM

merry christmas - happy holidays to all my cush angel families and their furbabies!!!!!! Hope you enjoy and my prayers are with all of you ---

love and hugs to all!!

Harley PoMMom

12-24-2011, 06:32 PM

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Love and hugs,
Lori

Cyn719

12-27-2011, 01:38 AM

Hope all of my cush angels had a good Christmas and that Santa was good to you and your furbabies!!!!:D:D

I want to tell you where I am with Penny and get your opinion

Penny has been off the trilo since sept

had some on and off symptoms -- like panting and drinking -- but they really have gone away

just the last 2 weeks alittle panting but thinking its from pain and trying to cope with her bad legs and arthritis-licking private area alittle more often than usual -- ?UTI

a few months ago the acth was 11 - the IMS was good with that and felt that we should do a cest xray and an ultrasound which i have not done because of all the expenses we have had..... so should I do these tests now if and when I can afford to? what will it show and whatever it shows will it change anything???

right now she is having so many problems with her hind legs and her front legs seem to be giving her a problem also - her back leg with the hock injury is just awful - turns out and shakes - she cant put weight on it and the other leg is having problems holding her up -- the front legs seem to be weak - and her front paws are now flat footed -- is on the adequan shots every 4 days - dasaquin twice a day - pepcid one to two a day - tramadol at bedtime - and rimadyl -- now twice a day or she cannot get up at all ----- the orthopedic said to stop the tramadol and give her the gabapentin - any input on that??? She just looks so tired and cant stand longer than a few minutes -- she seems to have alot of muscle wasting -getting boney -- her spine - her face --- shes eating the Wellness low fat kibble and the Merrick canned with the low fat low salt boars head chicken breast ( thank you Jeanette) -- somewhere I read she should be eating adult canned food instead of senior canned food - not sure why? Does she need more protien?

Any suggestions and comments are so welcome - thank you all!! Love and hugssssss xoxo

Bailey's Mom

12-27-2011, 08:40 AM

Hi Cindy-
How old is Penny?...and what type of dog? I probably knew that and this is just a senior moment!

I don't have any suggestions....you seem to have the professionals you need to handle the situation. My comment is just that it sounds like Penny is really struggling. With Peaches, our first dog - a pomepoo- it reached a point where I noticed her tail was only up and curled around for about 10 minutes in the AM and another 10 minutes in the PM. She had begun having seizures which were excruciating to watch and very, very hard on her. That was when I had to ask myself how was her quality of life and was she being kept alive for me, my needs.

I am sorry if you did not want to hear this. Maybe I am way off base. Poor little Penny sounds like there is mostly pain and discomfort for her. You are with her and you know her eyes. Look into her eyes and see if you "feel" anything. Sometimes the hardest thing we will face is the most loving we can be.

Love and big hugs heading your way. I am so very sorry for what is happening. I know this has to be very difficult to watch.

-Susan

Squirt's Mom

12-27-2011, 11:21 AM

Hi Cindy,

Hope you and yours had a great Christmas!

I think if it were me, I would take Penny to an ortho doc first and as soon as possible. Cushing's is not something I would worry about now at all. A post of 11 after being off the Trilo for a while is good and I bet the panting is due to pain. I know there are all sorts of braces out there for hocks, knees, elbows, etc that I looked into for my Crys but because of her deformities, her docs didn't want her to have them. You might ask if any of these, or other contraptions, could give Penny some relief and bring back some joy to her life. Did you ever go over to Conservative Management and talk with them?

As for the feed, Penny is considered geriatric at 12 so the senior feed is just fine. Senior feeds usually have less energy and fats as the pups become less active as they age. And some simply change the packaging to say "Senior" but nothing else. So always read the labels - the ingredients and nutrient analysis - and talk with your vet about feed changes. If she is losing weight on the senior feed, she may need some more fats and carbs in her diet in which case, the maintenance might be better...but again, you will have to look at the labels and see what each offers and talk with your vet.

Hang in there, sweetie, and give that PennyPoo a belly rub from me!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Skye

12-28-2011, 01:53 AM

you are a beautiful pet mom you know that! unconditional and forever you love and care for you darling penny. she knows you love her so much, as she does you....together, on this journey you two share...you will seek the answers. Keep knocking on doors and asking...just because one place has no answers doesnt mean the next will be the same........she is tough and though it may hurt she is standing her ground and holding on...so she still has fight....which is good. holding you close my dear beautiful friend, and gently kissing sweet penny with soft loving squeeze. Your both stubborn strong gals.....(we pet mommas are stubborn ones arent we!!!) wouldnt want to be any other way.

Cyn719

12-28-2011, 02:25 AM

Penny is 12 - she is shephard -akita-pit-lab I spoke with the ortho last friday and he said to give her the gabapentin in place of the tramadol each night and see how that works and get back to him in a week. So tonight I started it - I dont know how long it will take to kick in - some say a day-I also read it only last for four hours - I need to research it more but I just hope it works -- right now not much is helping -

Thank you Skye - your words are always so warm and comforting --yes she is a strong girl for sure - she just seems like she is giving up - but I am not so I keep trying anything the vet offers - I do have the cushings on the back burner since the eating is normal - like I said the panting is on and off but I think it is from the pain not the cushings

We will see if she is any better when she gets up - going to try to get alittle sleep. Nite - hugsssssss xoxoxoxo

Squirt's Mom

12-28-2011, 10:24 AM

Hi Cindy,

How is Penny this morning? I hope the Gabapentin is able to help her have less pain. One of our other members used it in her Giant Schnauzer with good luck and I hope it works the same for Penny.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

12-28-2011, 03:07 PM

Leslie

She did seem a bit better this am - but she didnt sleep much last night. I think she is use to the tramadol which makes her sleep and the gabapentin probably wanst strong enough. I will continue it to see how things go. I read about it and it only last 4 hours in your system - the vet said I could go to twice a day but I will stick to one for now. It was nice and sunny today after our wind strom last night so she was out for awhile - now getting cold again so she is napping. Thanks for check in on PennyPooh!!!!! :) hugsssss xo

mypuppy

12-30-2011, 09:59 AM

Hi there Cindy,

Thinking of you and your Penny girl...Hoping the new meds are making a significant difference by now..

Much love and hugs.

Jeanette and Princess

Squirt's Mom

12-30-2011, 10:48 AM

I hope the Gabapentin helps Penny. I was surprised to learn it had such a short life in a dog's body. I wouldn't have thought that at all based on how I take it - 4000mg/nite (when I have the most difficulty) and 800mg/morning - but I have been on it for a long time now and if I ever knew about it's life span in the human body, I have forgotten. I do remember that we had to build up to the dose; I had to adjust to the med and then build up to a therapeutic level. The amount and scheduling has changed over the years as needed. I do know that without it, I barely function and I so hope it has some benefit for Penny as well.

My thoughts and prayers remain with you and our sweet girl.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Cyn719

12-30-2011, 01:36 PM

Leaslie and Jeanette- Thank you for checking on Penny - she seems a bit better:)

The website I was reading I cant get back to - It was comments from people - which was obviously wrong - my aunt also told me it last longer - I want to check with the pharmacy cause they said I could go to two a day - hers are 100mg -- just not sure if I should - she seems alittle better with it - yesterday she was good - so good I thought it was cushings - she barked to eat all day!! Maybe she was just feeling better:) Does it make you tired or dizzy?? I will see how today goes. love and hugssssssssss xo

Squirt's Mom

12-30-2011, 01:46 PM

Hi Cindy,

That info may well be correct for dogs and not for humans. I haven't looked into it yet - am battling a massive headache today.

When I first started taking it, yes, it did make me dizzy and drowsy but not any more...well the daytime dose doesn't. The big dose at nite dose make me a little sleepy but that is ok since the pain keeps me up often.

Talk to the pharmacist and vet about upping the dose and how to go about it. It may be that levels will build in a dog as well - I gotta go check all this out when I can and will get back to you, if someone else doesn't first. :)

I am so, SO glad she seems to be feeling better! I would be thrilled at the barking even if it was a cush behavior! LOL :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

addy

12-30-2011, 01:55 PM

Hi Cindy,

I am glad to hear Penny is feeling a bit better. I hope the new meds give her some relief which will then give YOU relief :)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

love,
addy

Cyn719

12-30-2011, 08:58 PM

Thanks Leslie and Addy - yup if she barks 24/7 I will be thrilled!!! lol she does seem alittle better but like I said the eating is kicking in - she wants something all the time - but it could be she just feels better so she wants lot of treats:D Will monitor it though - dont want to confuse feeling better with cushing symptoms --- just glad she seems happier:) Sticking with the one pill at bedtime and will see next week if doctor thinks I should try to increase it----

Love and hugssssss

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

Casey's Mom

12-31-2011, 02:28 AM

Glad to see Penny is feeling better - eating is always good. I always struggle with Casey's eating and finding what she wants to eat that she can eat! She gets lots of holistic wheat free treats whenever she wants.

Happy New Year!!

Skye

12-31-2011, 04:20 AM

Horray she is feeling better!!!!! and eating good! that makes me soooo happy as i am sure it does you!
how is she resting? getting through the nite okay? we had sunshine here today....you had mentioned the weather was good.........i noticed a positive difference in that too.
love and hugs

Cyn719

12-31-2011, 05:08 PM

Hi

Cant figure if this is the start of the cushings symptoms again or ?? She is going through the munchies on and off during the day - drinking a bit more - goes out once during the night - but always did - but she is licking her private more so I will get urine sample - so like I said its either her feeling better and wanting to eat or cushings peaking again - went out at 1130 pm to pee then 3am to pee them 630 am just cause husband was getting ready for work and then she ate - then went out at 9am to pee and then at 1130 am to check out the neighbors - so its iffy right now whats up - but shes happy so I am happy - am watching her like a hawk lol hugssssssss for now!! xoxoxoxoxo

Cyn719

01-01-2012, 02:07 AM

happy new year to my cush angel families and their furbabies!!!!!!! Love ya all!!!! Xoxo

Bailey's Mom

01-01-2012, 10:46 PM

Arf, arf Penny and Hi Cindy-

Happy New Year to you as well. I am so glad Penny seems to be feeling better. I hope things continue to improve.

-Susan

Skye

01-04-2012, 03:08 AM

hello my friend and furry one! Hope you and Penny are doing great and the new year is being kind to you. I had responded to a post you had made on my thread but wasnt sure you got to read it.
and i wanted to add to that....i use to put fake grass or hold on to some grass clippings and put them on garage floor in nasty weather and then encourage babies to go potty in that area....normally they would...and then they werent out in the weather, at one point during an ice storm wind chills were -20 something (i lived in a northern state for a while) i put a small space heater there and turned it on while i was out there with them. I think if i remembered right i even sat up a lawn chair so i could sit down. lol but like i said i only did that when i was with them. which i am normally like a teacher on recess duty when my kids are in yard anyways....just missing the whistle on a chain. hmmm maybe i should get one of those. lol

Cyn719

01-05-2012, 01:31 PM

skye

I can vision the pretty blonde in the yard blowing her whistle and the furbabies saying what is she doing??!! hahahahahahaha

got urine from Penny first time in 12 yrs - shes losing her hearing so she didnt hear David sneak up on her!! lol but the vet said she doenst want the urine I got she wants to take it?? She always ask me for it then when we cant get it she takes it now I have it and she dont want it - any input???? uggg never easy xo

addy

01-05-2012, 02:45 PM

She probably want to draw the urine by needle if she is checking for bacteria by doing a culture. Zoe's IMS does that all the time, no big deal, just costs more but the urine is not contaminated.

Hugs,
addy

mypuppy

01-05-2012, 03:23 PM

Oh for crying out loud. Cindy, i know what you mean. I remember many a times running after Princess in yard with a bowl in my hand while she tried to squatt and then she would realize it and bolt:eek: Only to find once we got to the vet's they'd use same method and worked for them...but Id be a little peaved if you finally managed to get it and then vet says doesnt want it....lol....but I do know what Addy comments is accurate also...I had to do a cysto on Princess a couple of times, guess more precise when they hit the bladder directly? OUCH!!!!!

Good luck and please let us know what they say..

xo Jeanette

Skye

01-05-2012, 05:32 PM

sterile is always best!!!!
we go in the morning to have shysies pancreatic levels checked....last week she vomited, and felt ill, then stressed induced diarrhea, then a day with no pooh, then today...sigh, loose stool and vomit. so were gonna do pancreatic levels, cbc and cysto.

Snoopy&Rummer_Mom

01-06-2012, 11:25 AM

Ladies, I just wanted to say something. I have spent the past 30 minutes reading this thread and I have been on pins and needles over sweet Penny and her mom! How scary it got at times! But it made me realize how important is to have a vet that understands Cushings. So much that I am getting ready to relocate to Kansas and will gave to change the vet we so love. But I have done some research of IM vets in the area so I can set up a referral to visit one of them. Luckily Kansas State Univ is not that far from Leavenworth. So happy with this.

Cyn719

01-06-2012, 12:27 PM

Yup IMS is the best!!! The angels here saved my Penny and finally got me to go to the IMS and thank God I did!! Even in September my vet still said she wanted Penny back on the trilo and to this day she is still off of it - the IMS said it is not needed right now -- I can only think what would of happened if I listened to her and put her back on it:eek: Penny is doing ok - what is getting her now is no use of her leg with the hock injury and all the lumbar -hip-leg arthritis etc. She still has a good appetite - gets around but needs help here and there -Adequan Shots - Dasaquin - Rimadyl - low doses - gabapentin - and started Fish Oil ---(to those who use it do you squirt the oil from the pill into the food? ) Monday she goes to the vet to check for a UTI - maybe she doesnt but she seems to be at herself more - and when we got the sample the urine seemed dark but maybe I am just use to it being so clear from the cushings??
Hugsssssss to all xoxo