Intro and newly diagnosised

[techyteacha]

Hi all, I have 3 kids who are almost grown, a hubby of 25 yrs and a bunch of critters including 5 horses, several cats- and 3 dogs. We have 2 goldens, 2 1/2 yr old female- Copper, 5 yr old male Duke and our old Obee. He is a 13 yr old English Shepard type mutt. He had a great check up in the spring but has started loosing weight. College daughter took him to the vet today. They took blood and thought it was diabetes, congestive heart failure or fluid on the lungs. Then they called back with it was either cushings or a liver issue. My daughter is running back to the vet to get 2 kinds of meds for Obee now. She didn't know what they were.
I am going to call the vet when I get off work and see what we should be feeding him to get some weight back on him. He is what I would call underweight. His hip bones protrude and you can feel all his ribs. All 3 dogs live in the house, Obee has the run of the house, the other 2 get kenneled. We are currently feeding Native 2, top dressing with Health-E-oil ( soy based oil with vitamin e- actually for horses but have used it in the past with vets blessing to put weight on both dogs and cats) and canned dog food. Have tried Iams and Obee's favorite is Alpo- I think, as I am typing it now, I am not a hundred percent sure. Anyway it is a cheapo type canned food mixed with his dry to encourage him to eat more. He gets fed 2x a day.
He still have a great attitude and moves pretty good. His hind end will go out from under him on the wood floor since he has lost so much weight. He still has all his teeth. Has selective hearing.

He loves his girl like no other. 3 yrs ago my daughter graduated and left for college ( only a half hour away but she lived in the dorms). He went down hill that winter. I thought we were going to lose him. When daughter came home from college he perks right back up to his peppy self. She see the change and she moved back home and drives to and from college. She says she will move out when he is gone.
The two Golden's will rough house and then stop when he gets to close. They are so careful when he is around so they don't bump into him.

Any ideas on how to help him gain weight and how to manage this would be greatly appreciated. We have had Obee his whole life. He is part of our family and we want to make his as happy as possible.

Will update info from the vet as soon as we get it. Thanks and I am glad this site is here.

Mary

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Obee from me and my boy Harley. So sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but glad you found this forum and we will help you in any way we can.

Cushing's is a very hard disease to diagnose. Not one test is 100% accurate, so I was wondering if you could post any test/s that were done on Obee.

Strong symptoms are a huge part of making the diagnosis, and a Cushing's savvy vet will not initiate any treatment without strong symptoms and a proper diagnosis. What symptoms led you or your vet to test Obee for Cushing's in the first place?

Weight-loss is not the usual symptom of a cush-pup, these pups with cushing's disease have elevated cortisol and usually a ravenous appetite.

Remember we are here for you, so please ask all the questions you want and we will help you in any way we can, ok? ;) :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[techyteacha]

We took Obee to the vet because he was loosing so much weight and his appetite was decreasing. He acted hungry but wouldn't eat much at one sitting. I didn't think that was abnormal for an aged dog- thinking along the terms of an older person eats less. When Obee got to the vet they did a general profile per te and complete blood count test of his blood. They also did a general physical. My daughter took Obee in. The problem lies in the vet telling her and her communicating to me. I called the vet after work to see what exactly the blood work showed but his vet was already gone and had taken the paperwork with her. We live in a very small rural community and this vet only works part time with her vet hubby. She goes home to take care of her young children after work. Anyway, the office said I could call back tomorrow and get the specifics.

The vet said he had a liver infection and put him on Amoxicaps 500 mg per cap 2x per day. He is also on Lasix tabs 40 mg, 1/2 tablet 2x per day.

They have not conclusive said he has cushings so I mis spoke earlier. In further conversation with the office the blood work showed a liver infection and they are thinking cushings. They are treating as such. When the meds are done we go back in and get another blood test. We are to continue feeding him what we are. They are hoping the meds will turn him around and he will gain a few pounds back. He weighed 65.7 lbs today. At his heaviest- when he was healthy and young he weighed around a 110. He was too heavy then and we worked hard to get his weight down. He needs about 15 lbs to be at his ideal weight according to the vet.

I am off to Google Lasix and see what else I can find out. Everything I have read about canine cushings is that the dog will be overweight, drink and eat alot and urinate frequently. Obee had one BM in the house overnight and it was loose so I don't think he had time to wake my daughter up- she sleeps on the main floor. Obee can't do the steps to the second floor anymore but one or two steps is no problem.

I am not sure what to think, just trying to gather as much info as I can so I can ask questions and try and help Obee be as comfortable as possible for as long as possible.

Thanks.

[Harley PoMMom]

Many of our cush-pups are elderly, and their livers are enlarged due to the liver having to work harder because of the stress of the excess cortisol. Also on the Chemistry blood panel the ALT and the ALP (liver enzymes) will usually be high.

Alot of members here, with their GP/IMS approval, give their pups a liver support supplement like milk thistle or denamarin.

To help put weight on, maybe try feeding easily digested protein like eggs, and feeding more carbs like potatoes or rice.

Here are some links that I hope are useful to you.

Links to Cushings Websites (especially helpful for new members!)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=10

[StarDeb55]

Mary, welcome to both you & Obee! It can be very challenging to try to pin down what is ailing our senior pups at times as problems are so frequently chalked up to a matter of aging. A great majority of Obee's symptoms really do not point towards Cushing's at this point. Weight loss is more commonly associated with diabetes, was diabetes ruled out?

Lasix is a diuretic (water pill) that can be used to help control blood pressure or to help when either a human or pet is retaining fluid somewhere in their body. The drug encourages the body to get rid of the excess fluid through the kidneys. I do not want to alarm you, but was anything said about congestive heart failure? Lasix is frequently used in heart failure to lessen the strain on the heart from the excess fluid.

If your vet is still thinking Cushing's is a possibility, you absolutely do not want to do any Cushing's diagnostics until Obee's treatment is completed for any of these current issues. The presence of non-adrenal illness can cause false positive results on some of the normal Cushing's diagnostic tests. Once Obee has completed treatment, there is a simple screening test called a urine cortisol creatinine ratio which is a "rule out" test. If the test is negative, you are not dealing with Cushing's, & need to look at something else. Positive simply means that Cushing's is a possibility, further testing is needed. The test is non-stressful on the pup, you would simply need to collect the first AM pee prior to eating or any medication being given. The sample does not need to be sterile, & just get the sample to your vet ASAP.

Debbie

[techyteacha]

Thanks for the warm welcome. After doing some research on the net and looking up the meds the vet gave him, I am thinking maybe I am in the wrong place. The vet did the blood test to see if Obee was diabetic. The test came back that he wasn't. The vet told my daughter if he wasn't diabetic then the would take an exray and see if it was congenital heart failure or fluid on the lungs. The meds they gave us for Obee sound like heart failure or fluid. I really want to talk to the vet myself now. I am wondering if my daughter got some things mixed up. If they said it could be cushings if they ruled out everything else. That is not the message I got from her but now I just don't know. She is in college but Obee is her baby and I think she may have gotten upset. I know when people get bad news they don't always hear everything the vet said. Thanks all. Good night. Hopefully I will get more answers or at least more info tomorrow.
Mary

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Mary and welcome to you and Obee, and the rest of the gang! :)

I agree that what you are seeing now doesn't really sound like Cushing's. But having said that, there are pups who just don't read the rule book or if they do read it, they do all they can to prove it wrong! :p

Since he already has an infection, testing for Cushing's would be a waste of money right now, as has already been said. If it were me, I don't think I would let the vet get focused on Cushing's right now either. Let Obee get over this infection and back on his feet a bit then start ruling out everything else - like liver disease, heart or lung problems, and other conditions that mimic Cushing's like diabetes and thyroid issues. But first, let him get over the infection.

I understand how your daughter feels. My Squirt will be 13 in Feb. and she has been with me since she was 5 wks old. When her vet said "Cushing's", I went to pieces, and it was months before I could comprehend anything other than the fact that my baby was sick. We have been very lucky on our journey in spite of some serious bumps along the way but I don't think I could have made it through to today without these wonderful, loving, knowledgeable folks here.

Whether it turns out that Obee has Cushing's or not, I hope you will stay around and let us walk this journey with you and yours. We are a sentimental ole bunch and love every baby that is introduced here, taking them and theirs into our little family. So, just remember ya'll are not alone. We are here even if it is just to listen.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[apollo6]

Dear Mary Welcome
Apollo is my 12 year old dachie on Trilostane since June.
I have attached a quick summary of what cushing is , tests to do before even thinking about medications. Too many vets say cushing and give medication without the right tests. This is a very tricky disease to diagnose.
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html
Hug Sonja and Apollo