Kira, 14 y/o Husky - Successful adrenal surgery (Kira has passed)

[Altira]

Also you folks will likely think I lost it. But. We maybe getting a new puppy this weekend. Um the puppies father is Mira's brother. Mira is ( or was ) the puppies aunt. I talked to the lady who owned the grandfather and she reminded me that he lived 17 years!! She doesn't seem to be concerned about this puppy that much. I know now isn't a good time. But the thought of loosing Kira and be left with no dogs at all is more than I can handle. I'm hoping to keep the two of them separated as best I can until it's over. I'll keep Kira fenced off in the house when she comes home. Kira will get all my attention. She's still is my number 1 girl. Mira never got to be number 1 girl. No fair!

[frijole]

Hi Janis. It's tough for us to tell you what to do re the surgery as we don't know all the facts. The pro is that if it is successful the cushing's goes away. If you don't do surgery you continue with the trilo.

As you know the surgery is a very delicate one and needs to be done by a very experienced surgeon. The person that needs to answer your question is the surgeon. The ultrasound tell him/her how complicated the surgery could be. I'd point blank ask what the chances of success are and what they'd do if Kira was their dog. I wouldn't ask my vet I would ask the surgeon.

Also ask them what to be prepared for after the surgery in terms of recovery. I think if you ask and they answer you will form an opinion. I know its tough but truly this decision is yours. We'll support you either way. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Janis,

A new puppy! :D How exciting! Now, I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate. :rolleyes: Since this is the same blood-line as Mira and Kira, I would want to know more about the health of other members of this line. Are there other cases of cancer? Cushing's? tumors? within this line? A responsible breeder will be more than happy to provide you with info on all her puppies. ;) If Mira and Kira are the only ones who had health issues like these, then you are fairly safe you won't have to face these things again with this line. If there have been others in this blood-line who had problems, I would probably look at a different line altogether. JMHO.

As for Kira's surgery, if she were mine it would have already been done and we would be talking about recovery. ;) Kira is young and otherwise healthy so she is strong enough for the operation. Dr. S sounds as if he is experienced and confident, and that goes a loooonnnggg way toward the comfort zone. He did say if she were his, he would do the surgery. Here are some points you posted earlier that would definitely lead me to have this done for Kira asap.


THIS IS A SMALL TUMOR SO I REALLY DON’T FORESEE ANY MAJOR COMPLICATIONS. I WOULD FORESEE THAT IT WOULD COME OUT VERY QUICKLY.

IF YOU DESIDE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO PERUSE IT THEN I WOULDN’T PUT IT OFF

I want this tumor out of her, I want the cancer out of her, and to make her as well as she can possibly be. And I’m thinking it should be done as soon as possible. And I think it may be right after Xmas.
YEAH. NO I DON’T THINK IT WOULD BE AN ISSUE TO WAIT THAT LONG

In my opinion she is not in as good a shape as she was 7 months ago. I don’t know if it’s the Cushing’s or she’s getting older or it just took a lot out of her or what. I felt a lot more confident back then then I do now but you don’t suspect that anything would go wrong?
WELL I DON’T SUSPECT IT AND ALL I CAN SAY TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER IS THAT THE CHANCES OF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENING TO HER IS EXTREMELY SMALL

And the chances of her being a lot better are good?
ARE GOOD YES. I WOULDN’T HESITATE TO DO IT. IF SHE WAS MY OWN DOG I WOULD DO IT. ESPECIALLY WITH THAT SMALL TUMOR, IT’S TECHNICALLY NOT GOING TO BE THAT DIFFICULT TO GET OUT OF THERE.

It sounds to me as if Dr. S thinks this will be a simple and quick operation for Kira with minimal risk and optimal benefits. There is never a guarantee with any surgery situation but her tumor is small and that is a very good thing.

And, you can offer Kira what you could never have offered to Mira - a chance for a better tomorrow.

Heavens, I know you are getting scared to pieces with Mon coming so soon but I do think this is the right thing for Kira. Having said all this, Kim is right - we can't tell you what to do, we can only tell you what we think based on the info given and what we would do in your shoes. No matter what you decide, we will support you the best we can.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Thank you for your thoughts. That's what I was looking for. That's what I've been looking for all along. And I'm ever so grateful. More heads being way better then certainly my muttled one. Actually it's my mother who keeps me from doing it sooner. Shed just die if I didn't make it for Xmas. Well I might be there but totally unprepared for it let me tell you. Just getting thru this is my goal for the last of this year.

Kira and Mira are from to different breeders. Mira and her mother both died young both of cancer. They are from a beautiful and painstakingly put together dog. The breeder is as heart broken as I. She is extremely into this. Karamads is well known. I was just unlucky enough to run into one of her disaters. I have spoken to others breeders that know her well and they say there is no reason to fear this one will turn out badly too. I too have have the chance to continue on this line that I have come to cherish so much. And Sherri has been most kind in so many ways. Now it only she didn't live so far way! And if you could see how Kira reacts to every dog we see along our many walks you'd know that chances are a puppy is just what she wants. I just hope it's the right one. I hope they get along at least half as good as she and Mira did. They were amazing together and my heart brakes that it ended so soon.

I'm being real silly about the date of this surgery. The soonest is the 27th. Kira and Mira were both born on the 27th day of the month. Mira died on the 27th of November. I'm being silly right? The next possible date is the 30th.

[Squirt's Mom]

Honey, if you are more comfortable with the 30th, I doubt three more days will make that much of a difference. If the 27th of the month feels "jinxed" to you, then it will be harder for you to relax and Kira may pick up on that.

I think there are things we all have little shivers or ickys about, times or places that have bad connections in our minds/hearts. ;) So no, not silly.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Janis,

Thinking of you and Kira, hoping all is well at your house!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Buffaloe]

Hi Janis,

I know you have a big decision to make for Kira. It's not easy. Do you know if the tumor is on the right or the left adrenal gland?

My surgeon told me that all he cares about is the size of the tumor and its involvement with area blood vessels. Kira's tumor is pretty small and probably has minimal involvement with the blood vessels. Dr. Sebestyan sounds confident. But, it is a very major surgery. One of the vet techs once told me that there's usually some joking around in the operating room before surgeries. But, before performing an adrenalectomy, Dr. G (Shi's surgeon) is absolutely quiet and the operating room is 100% serious.

Shi's incision was between 8-10 inches long and her whole tummy was purple for several days after she got home.

As far as I know, a dog having an adrenal tumor and a pituitary tumor are mutually exclusive events. That's why I think the chance that Kira has a pituitary lesion along with the adrenal tumor is small. But, it is possible. The possibility of a pituitary tumor was never even mentioned in Shi's case.

If you decide to have the surgery, you can't look back and second guess yourself. You know pretty much all you can know at this point. If you don't feel good about the 27th, don't do it on the 27th. Shi's was on the 19th and I always liked that number. It is nice that you have some time. I don't think a week one way or the other is going to make any difference. I guess you gotta go with what your gut tells you is the best way to go. All the best.

Ken

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Janis!
About the "27" thing: Mira & Kira were both born on the 27th, Mira did not die on the 27th, she moved on to a happier, healthier existence just on another plane. And, now Kira has her chance at health on the 27th. It all sounds good to me? And, could this "27th" be Mira's way of telling you to go ahead.......?
Carrol

[Altira]

Thank you Ken...

It's the left side I think. I have the detailed summary and it says there is a mass on the left side. Dr. Sebestyen said it was like two inches big is all. It was my understanding that the left side is easier to get to or something.

I discovered that Dr. Sebestyen is available on tuesday the 28th so I've made the appointment for then. I don't think any date would feel right for me but at least it's not the 27th.

I wonder did Shi have a problem with fatty cysts? Kira has two big ones on either side of her under belly and a big one on her upper front leg. The really scary thing is I just found a HUGE one on the side of her chest tonight! I swear I pet her and brush her all the time and it wasn't there yesterday!!!! What the heck is going on? Somebody is having a great time tormenting me! This one is like the size of the palm of my hand. Could be me panicing too. Mira had a mass in the exact same place and size! Right next to her heart! Miras wasn't a fatty thing though. I'm pretty certain Kiras is though. It's soft and attached to the skin.

Well on a lighter note, for a change. We have a new addition to our battered k9 family. Currenty known as NEKA. She is 9 weeks old and cuter then heck. She is also Mira's niece. I'm busy making sure Kira knows she's still my number 1 girl. But I'll be squeezing the daylights out of this pup when Kira has this surgery.

[Altira]

Thanks Carol. I thought about doing the 27th. Telling myself I'm not going to be superstious. Or I would be defiant. Didn't work.

[labblab]

Well on a lighter note, for a change. We have a new addition to our battered k9 family. Currenty known as NEKA. She is 9 weeks old and cuter then heck. She is also Mira's niece. I'm busy making sure Kira knows she's still my number 1 girl. But I'll be squeezing the daylights out of this pup when Kira has this surgery.
Omigosh, Janis, I don't know how I missed this yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!! But welcome to little Neka!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Now you KNOW that we need to see some pictures IMMEDIATELY! ;) :p ;) :p

All best wishes to your new baby girl, and all best wishes to YOU (because you are definitely going to be a very busy girl, yourself, over these next few weeks!!!)

Please give Kira some big pats from me, too!
Marianne

[Altira]

Ok FIRST OFF this is baby MIRA.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2197

[Altira]

And this is Mira's brothers daughter baby NEKA.. (and Bud)

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2198

This is Neka's father (aka Mira's brother)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2202

Nekas coat will likely end up a lot like her daddies. The body color comes in later.

[Altira]

KIRA differant breeder
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2201

Kira and Neka
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2200

[BestBuddy]

Neka is beautiful.

Congratulations and tell Kira she is still number 1 and Neka can be 1A.

Jenny

[Altira]

I told her. Thank you.. Kira wants to play in the worst way but she has these huge paws. Not to mention she weights 70 pounds! I have to remind her to be easy. It's not the match Kira and Mira were, that was amazing but I'm hopefull.

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Janis,

Neka is gorgeous! She looks so much like Mira's baby pic! I am sure she and Kira will become fast buddies in no time.

How is Kira doing these days?

Congratulations on the new baby and welcome to the family, Neka!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Kira is about the same. No better no worse. Sure hope this surgery cures her cus the trilostane doesn't seem to do much. She started it 24 days ago. She missed a day and a half twice is all. Her current dose is 1.1ml twice a day. I dont know if there will be time to do another STIM test before surgery. I'd sure like to know if it's doing any good.

[Squirt's Mom]

Honey, my fervent prayer is that Kira will sail through the surgery and recovery, and that you never see another sign of Cushing's in her EVER.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Merry Christmas from Neeka! (Mira's niece)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2216

[Squirt's Mom]

Merry Christmas, precious one!

[addy]

Janis she is beautiful, just beautiful.

Welcome Neka, Merry Christmas:)

Addy

[frijole]

Gorgeous puppy. Thanks for that. Hugs to our new baby as well as our big girl Kira. Hope your holidays were good Janis. Hugs, Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

How are you doing this morning? And Kira? She is scheduled for the surgery tomorrow, correct? What time does she go in? Has he diarrhea stopped? Please let us know how things are going for you and your precious girl!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Tomorrow is the day! No food after midnight... Kira seems in good shape. I am hopefull.

KEN you are the one who made all this possible for me. When dr Chung mentioned the possibility of surgery a month ago it was you who gave me the courage to consider this. You gave me hope right from the start. I can't thank you enough for that. I really needed it then too. And also everyone else who posted on Kira and Mira's threads. Once there was a Kira and a Mira.

[Altira]

Once there was a Kodi and a Kira (they were related)
"You know Kira, you are funny looking."
Kira is 6 months old. They tend to look funny at that age.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2246

The day before TTA surgery in March 2008
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2245

The day before TTA surgery in May 2010
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2242

The day before surgery in December 2010.
Poor sweetheart... She looks like she's been through a lot!
But if not for the previous two surgeries she would not be walking. My Kira can walk!
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2243

[Buffaloe]

Hi Janis,

Oh my goodness, tomorrow is a BIG day. I definitely think you are doing the right thing with the surgery. I also think it is going to be a very emotional day for you. You and Kira are, and will be in my continued thoughts and prayers. My surgeon told me that the only people (in our situations) who should not have the surgery are those who absolutely could not handle it if their dog didn't make it. I knew I could handle it if Shi didn't make it and I knew I was giving her her best chance for a few more quality years. You are doing the same for Kira.

Neka is way beyond cute. What a precious, precious gift from God.

Yes, Shi had some lipomas. About a year after her adrenalectomy, one just got huge, the size of a caneloupe under one of her rear legs. We had it surgically removed and it helped Shi alot.

Keep your eye on the prize. When Dr. S. calls and tells you Kira is awake and the surgery went well, you will be way beyond elated. Hang tough.

Ken

[Altira]

Me? Emotional? Bless the stars for little Neeka (knee-ka we corrected the spelling).

Kira got over her diarrhea (soft poop) just fine with the meds and we went back to her old food for now too. She will have been on trilostane for twenty two straight days by tomorrow. A month really less six doses earily on. Current dose is 1.1ml. I dont think there will be a cortisol test before surgery, at least i havent heard anything. Her overall health is not what it was six months ago. I think you can see that in the pictures. I'm hoping it's the cushing's and not old age. At least I think i am. There was diffinitly a change right after the last TTA surgery. That's a bit worrisome. There was another noticable down hill slide when Mira first got sick. But nothing noticable after Mira's death. Even still the little sweetheart can pull me off my feet if she wants to. She's a very powerful dog! Dr. Sebestyen did the other two surgeries too.

I take her in at 9am tomorrow. I hope i get to talk to Sebestyen but i may not. I have already faxed him my final concerns that are not big ones. The surgery (as i understand it) will not be done until the late afternoon or earily evening. This is normal for him. It doesn't mean we are at the bottom of the list. I think we may likely be much on his mind though.

Worry not, I will take you with me! I just may end up in their parking lot! If there are complications you can bet I will be. Just to be close.

[Altira]

KIRA IS HAPPY!
Me and the dogs were fenced off in the kitchen. The dogs were playing. Well Kira kept playing too ruff and Neeka just kept coming at her. Banging into things and skidding all over. Finally Kira got pooped and laid down but Neeka just kept wanting to play. So I let Kira out of the kitchen. Next thing I knew Kira is in the front room running around the coffee table just for the fun of it. I haven't seen her do that in like a year. Bud said he saw her do it the other day too. I think Kira is pretty happy about Neeka.

[frijole]

Janis, Just chiming in to let you know I'm following along and I too will be with you and Kira tomorrow. So glad your puppy has brought so much joy and fun into your life. Great for Kira too. Huge hugs and all the best tomorrow. xoxo, Kim

[lulusmom]

Janis,

Just checking in to let you know that I'll be with you and Kira in spirit tomorrow and you're both in my prayers. I also want you to know that Neeka is absolutely adorable. I am sure it is hard to not squeeze too hard when you hug her. :D

Hugs,
Glynda

[labblab]

Janis, I am away from home until late Thursday, so can only check in every once in a while when I can get computer access. But that won't stop me from keeping you and Kira in my thoughts and prayers!! I will be beaming tons of healing energy Kira's way!

All best wishes,
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Right by your side today, sweetie, like that bothersome fly that just won't go away!

Sending hugs and healing white light,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Janis,
I'm right here too, keeping you and Kira in my thoughts and prayers today.

[Altira]

I'm crying. I'm not sure if it's from fright or from all the well wishing here though. Thank you so much for being here. Kira laid by the bed bed for a while last night and let me pet her. For some reason she was getting wet in the process but she stayed. Then i woke with a start and jumped out of bed cus i thought I heard a dog screaming. Kira was still in the room but had since moved away from rhe rain a little. It must be Neeka! So i dashed to the front room. And asked Bud if neeka was screaming. He just looked at me funny and said all was well.

Kira threw up her dinner last night. This is extremely rare for her. She had just eaten it and proceeded to do that again. Not sure why that happened but she seemed fine. We went for a night time walk and she did fine. But I'll let Sebestyan know.

[Altira]

They took her. I didn't get to talk to Sebestyan. But I did see him, busybusy. Doesn't matter, I don't think i could have gotten a word out anyway. They said they may do it at 2:00. I'm still in the parking lot in no hurry to leave. They are going to shave off more of her fur.

[Altira]

Maybe someone would drop the word "maybe" from the thread title now?

[lulusmom]

Maybe someone would drop the word "maybe" from the thread title now?

I have changed the title of your thread as requested

[addy]

Saying prayers for Kira. Sending lots of hugs for you.

Love,
Addy

[Buffaloe]

Janis,

It might be good that Kira threw up her dinner last night; the emptier the stomach for surgery the better, probably.

I know everybody on this website is pulling big-time for Kira's successful surgery, post-op and complete recovery.

I remember clearly that the day of Shiloh's adrenalectomy was a long and difficult day. The one good thing I did, around noon I went for a long bike ride. By the time I got home and cleaned up, I had blown about 3 hours and maybe released a few endorphins. My surgeon called about 6:30 with great news.

Kira has alot going for her: she's pretty young and strong. Her tumor is relatively small and is on her left gland. And she has a great surgeon, all rested up from the holidays.

Ken

[frijole]

More warm thoughts and hugs to the entire family.... Kim

[Altira]

I was thinking about taking Neeka for a carried walk. I wanted to do that while the surgery was being done but maybe I better wait by the phone. Maybe I'll wash my car. I dont know, I had a lot of trouble catching my breath after leaving her. I'm feeling pretty drained. I need to think of the positive stuff. 90% chance she'll do fine and a good chance she'll be better then ever. That's pretty good odds. It's just that the other side is so unthinkable and final. Neeka is happily playing with her toys at my feet in the kitchen. Looking up at me. What more could I ask for?

Well there was one thing more. On the way home the car in front of me had a little husky figurine in the back window, it looked like it was looking over the back of the seat at me. Mira always did that. Rested her head on the back of the seat that was flipped down looking at me. It looked just like that. It felt just like that. Felt like she really was looking at me. Made me cry and smile at the same time.

[Squirt's Mom]

Any word yet, Janis?

[Altira]

I just called they said she's next in line. They may start in the next hour to two hours. That the doctor will call later.. That's rather vage. I'm going nuts.

[Marlene]

Sending you warm wishes and understanding of how very stressful this is. My thoughts will be with you.

[maggiebeagle]

You and Kira have been in my thoughts and prayers all day.
Wish we could be there with you, but I hope you feel the presence of all of us surrounding you with love.

[frijole]

Checked in here first as soon as I got home. Sending more love. Kim

[Altira]

Dr Sebestyan called about 6:00 pm and said she is doing fine and the surgery went well. I wanted to record what he said but I didn't get a chance. He said they would do a STIM test right away to see if the right side is working. They will have the results in the morning. He said they gave her something to help with blood clots. So I guess that is still a danger. The number one danger. He said maybe she can go home tomorrow. No mom, I won't be ok until she is home. They are not sending her to ACC, they will keep her there at VSS. Doctors are 24 hours at ACC I would have felt better if she was there. Just nurses at VSS. But ACC is just across the street. The said they would try to feed her right away. I better take her more food. I wonder if they would let me see her tonight. He said they started surgery about 3:30. Kira is awake and likely not real happy. She cries a lot. High pitched whines. I wish it was more positive about going home tomorrow. I wish the blood clot danger was over.*

[Altira]

Ken if you are around... How long did the threat of possible blood clots last?

[Squirt's Mom]

SO glad to know Kira is out and doing ok! :D Blood clots are a risk with any surgery, especially the first few hours so don't panic over that right now. Dr Dew even mentioned that possibility with Squirt's knee surgery this July.

You get some rest when you can so you have your strength when Kira comes home!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[frijole]

Janis - Wonderful news on our dear Kira.... you know we have all adopted her... lots of aunts and uncles now.. We'll all be sending prayers her way over the next days until she is back in your home and loving arms. Meanwhile you rest up and give the little pup some love from all of us. :p You made my day. Kim

[Buffaloe]

Janis,

Dr. S. said the surgery went well and Kira is doing fine. That is great. You cannot ask for anything better than that at this point. Personally, I am delighted.

They kept Shi on an IV with medicines to prevent blood clots and infection after her surgery. How long, I don't know. After I brought her home I gave her one baby aspirin (to prevent clots) and prednisone for two weeks, after which her remaining adrenal gland "kicked in." She never had a follow-up ACTH test after her surgery.

She stayed at the hospital for 3.5 days after her adrenalectomy. It took that long for her to "perk up" and eat well. I wanted to visit her the evening of the surgery but they advised me to wait until the next morning...I was there bright and early.

There is still the critical post-op period and then Kira's complete recovery. But it is gigantic that her surgery went well. She is more than half-way out of the woods now.

Ken

[Roxee's Dad]

Keeping the good thoughts and prayers flowing....Hoping for a quick recovery.

[addy]

Still praying as well and hoping recovery is speedy.

Hugs and kisses,
Addy

[Marlene]

That is such good news. Hoping the recover goes well and she can come home soon!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Anxiously waiting news this morning. When Squirt had the tumor and part of her spleen removed, the hospital finally told me THEY would call ME at certain intervals because I was driving them nuts calling every few minutes! :o I wanted to know everything she had done since the last time I called. LOL

When they will let you, it might help Kira to have something of yours or hers that has a familiar scent to comfort her while at the vets. Like a blanket or shirt. They didn't want me coming to see Squirt right off because it would have excited her and they wanted her to be calm at first but they did let me drop off a blanket to put in her cage.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Kira excellent! Should come home soon!!! IM SO HAPPY!

It's Sebestyen's day off we just need his okay. The nurse said it's like nothing ever happened. She ate and went pee outside. And if I know my Kira just may have pulled some too.

Thank you everyone so much. God listened this time!

[Squirt's Mom]

:D:D:DWoohoo!!:D:D:D

[addy]

Janis, I cannot shout loud enough!!!!!!!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have been through so much but you found your strength too. I think the new puppy brought it to you:)

Happy Days,

Addy

[lulusmom]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Altira]

She looks really good. Stands up strong and sturdy. She peed and ate all her food. Whines a little if I stop petting her. Such a good Kira. She's ready to rest. It wasn't raining at all when we put her in the car. Bud lifted her just fine then stood talking to her for several minutes. Bud has always been fond of Kira. Neeka is fairly quiet in her pen in the kitchen.

<photo.JPG>

The doctor wasn't there but the nurse said they aren't horribly concerned about her liver but they did take a biopsy of it. She said the biopsy on the tumor is more important. She said the danger of a blood clot has passed. That's a relief!

She looks so peaceful. I'm right here on the floor with her. No need for the cone collar we will watch her.

The post surgery STIM test

PRE-ACTH CORTISOL. 4.8 (2-6)
POST-ACTH CORTISOL 5.6 (6-18)
Not sure what this means....

She has a Fentanyl patch
Tramadol 50mg 2 every 12 hours
Famotidine 10mg 1 daily
Reglan 10 mg 1 1/2 three times a day
Prednisone 20mg 1 twice daily for seven days

[Squirt's Mom]

I am so glad Kira is HOME! That is amazing to me! She must have done really, really well. YEAH!!!! :D

The ACTH is letting you know how the adrenal is doing with releasing cortisol. The post # is a bit,just a tad, below normal but I would think that is to be expected until it kicks in. To me, it looks good! I'm sure Ken can tell us much more about it.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Marlene]

That's a great picture of the two of you on the floor. I hope you both get the rest you so need!!

[frijole]

? why can't I see the photo? It says photo.jpg on my screen! :(:confused:

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy for you and dear Kira. Whoop Whoop!!! Kim

[maggiebeagle]

What a relief to have your girl back home. :D

[06beagles]

So happy for you both, wishes for a speedy recovery :)

[Roxee's Dad]

Kira's home...:D:D:D: Big Happy Smiles :D:D:D

[Altira]

? why can't I see the photo? It says photo.jpg on my screen! :(:confused:

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy for you and dear Kira. Whoop Whoop!!! Kim

Actually no one can see that picture I have to get to my computer to do that. That post also went out as email and it could be seen that way. I'd be happy to convert it soon though. I'll show pics of the surgery site too. It looks good!

[labblab]

Janis, huge congratulations from me, too!

Marianne

[Altira]

Here is the one when we just got home picture. Does she look peaceful or what? I'm on the floor with her.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2249

Dec. 30.. Keep in mind that the tumor hadn't evaded anything yet so it went pretty quickly.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2250

[Casey's Mom]

Great news Janis and so happy to see you have Kira at home!!

Love and many hugs,

[Marlene]

When I said, "That's a great picture," I meant the picture you painted in my mind with your words. I should have clarified that!:o She is a beautiful baby and the fact that the tumor hasn't been invasive is great news. Thinking of you.

[Altira]

When I said, "That's a great picture," I meant the picture you painted in my mind with your words. I should have clarified that!:o She is a beautiful baby and the fact that the tumor hasn't been invasive is great news. Thinking of you.

I'm glad it painted that picture. :)

Update: Kira had a bit of bad night. She has diarrhea pretty bad. She covered one end of her potty yard to the other. This morning too. She will be getting white rice and ground up boiled chicken for awhile along with metrondozal (? that diarrhea medication) for seven days per Sebestyan.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

When Squirt had her surgery, the surgeon had to handle her pancreas. The pancreas is a very touchy organ and did not like being handled. This resulted in an acute pancreatic attack for Squirt the day after she got home from the hospital.

She vomited, had diarrhea and wouldn't drink or eat. Her belly was tender but it had just been laid open so I didn't think anything of that sign.

I don't know if Kira's pancreas was disturbed or not, but keep an eye on her just in case and if she is not better soon, let Dr. S know. It might be best to withhold food for 24 hours if possible to give her system a chance to calm down a bit. Maybe just some chicken broth for today....homemade so there are no onions or other additives that could make matters worse.

Let us know how things are going.
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Dr. Sebestyen knows. She will be getting white rice and ground up boiled chicken for awhile along with metronidozale for seven days. She seems a little better. She is taking Tramadol which I hate. It makes them look like their on deaths bed. She's all wobbly and shaky. But I don't want her to hurt.

[frijole]

And remember... tramadol gives them the runs. Trust me on this. I had to go with 1/2 the recommended dose of tramadol as did everyone else on this board with a senior dog... so that is something to consider. Hugs

[StarDeb55]

Janis, I second what Kim has just told you about the tramadol. Harley could only take 1/2 the recommended dose. My other boy, Chewy, can't take it at all, after a bad reaction, right after he tore his ACL. His surgeon had to go to an alternate pain medication for surgery & post-op.

Debbie

[Altira]

Ok I'll just give that for a short while maybe. I suspect Kira will feel better without it. Mira sure seemed to. She having a big incontinence problem right now too. That upsets her. And the redness at the cut is spreading out on her belly. I sent my brother a picture of that and asked if I should be concerned.

Update: Brother says I worry too much... (No he didn't say that... just said it's normal)

[Altira]

Baby Kira (Miroskima's Kira Katrina)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2238
Baby Mira (Karamads Mira Majesty)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=264&pictureid=2251

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Janis,

:D that Kira is home again :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Hoping for a speedy and non eventful recovery for her (and you).

Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey xxx

[Casey's Mom]

Thanks for the baby pictures!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

How does Kira's incision look today? Unlike your brother, spreading redness concerns me. That was one of the things I was told to watch for when Squirt had her surgeries...even the knee surgery, as that can indicate an infection. Keep a close eye on it and if it continues, do call Dr. S.

How is she otherwise? Appetite? Drinking? BMs? peeing?

I hope all is well and that you are starting to see a bit of your old Kira in her eyes!

The pics are precious!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Hi Janis,

How does Kira's incision look today?
IT LOOKS FINE. SHE FLOPPED OVER ON HER BACK AND GAVE US A GOOD LOOK. JUST THAT ONE SPOT IS RED. ITS STARTING TO FADE AND THE REST LOOKS GREAT.
Unlike your brother, spreading redness concerns me.
ACTUALLY HE CAME TO MY HOUSE TODAY. ITS FINE.

That was one of the things I was told to watch for when Squirt had her surgeries...even the knee surgery, as that can indicate an infection. Keep a close eye on it and if it continues, do call Dr. S

How is she otherwise? Appetite? NORMAL

Drinking? WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS. I THINK

BMs? FINE BUT SHE POOPS LAYING DOWN LIKE SHE DIDN'T KNOW IT HAPPENED. WORRISOME.

peeing? ANOTHER PROBLEM, INCONTINENCE IS THE WORST I'VE EVER SEEN

I hope all is well and that you are starting to see a bit of your old Kira in her eyes! SHE IS WHINNING A LOT. THAT COULD BE ANYTHING BUT I DOUBT THAT IT'S PAIN.

The pics are precious! PUPPIES ARE ALWAYS GOOD FOR A SMILE

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

SEE CAPS ABOVE...

Sebestyen's receptionist called today and asked about Kira. I was happy to report that there has been no diarrhea today. I mentioned the potty problem and he again said he's not worried about it but if it gets worse or isn't gone by Monday to call them.

[frijole]

Janis, I am going to repeat my story because its been awhile... the night I gave my gal Haley tramadol was the scariest of my life. She was loopy - like psycho. She walked into a corner/wall and just stood there. She was out of it. She was roaming around and I finally went to bed and just let her roam... bad decision because I got up around 2 am and found diarrhea and some pee all over the place. (side effect)

I got on this forum and several members shared their stories using tramadol and every single one of us had to reduce the dosage by 1/2 of the recommended amount. For the same reasons. So it would not surprise me that Kira is pooping while laying down because she is doped out of her mind. I could be wrong but... that would be my guess.

When I told the vet he was like "Huh?" I then told him that there were 4 other dog owners on this forum that had the same experience it got his attention. Vets go with what the manufacturers tell them to... unless they learn from us. FWIW

Hugs, Kim

[Altira]

Kim, I agree! I did not give her any tramadol tonight! She still has the patch for pain.

10:45 pm
She had two this morning at 7:30am and had problems all day. No diarrhea but she's been taking metrondozale and eating rice and chicken.

I was asked to watch for prednisone side effects. Basicaly cushings symptoms. I really don't think she is drinking that much water but she is definitely ravinous eating tonight. After feeding her she tricked me and stole our dinner. Very calculated it was too. She has been very anxious and whinny too which was a pred side effect I was to watch for. It was so bad that I gave her a little bit of a sedative.

2:00 am
Possibly the potty problems are gone. (fingers crossed) The patch comes off tomorrow if there is no pain I'm going to stop the Tramadol completely. She doesn't have any pain right now. She's getting up and down without complant. And squatting a little faster to pee. Healing pretty fast it seems. Bless her furry butt.

[frijole]

Janis, Thanks for the update. You might want to discuss with your vet because I want to make sure Kira's pain management is under control... When I reduced the tramadol to 1/2 the recommended dose Haley was fine and she had the benefit of pain relief. You don't want to completely remove all pain relief til you know it is safe as that could set her back. So to be safe I'd discuss with the vet. Sorry if this isn't clear... I have an awful cold and am not thinking clearly. :o Kim

[Altira]

Ohh please get well soon Kim!

I gave her one tramadol. Her eyes were a bit squinty this morning. I took the patch off today as instructed. She doesn't look well. I was going to sneak her off for a short slow walk up the street but maybe today is not a good day. Her legs seem shaky. Reminds me of how Mira was. I must keep reminding myself it's just the meds. Huh Kim? With Mira i could never figure out if it was the tramadol or the prednisone. Wouldn't you know I'd be using the exact same med combination on Kira. I look at Kira right now and think the quality of life for her really sucks. And likely at the moment it really does. But guess we have to go thru this to get to the other side. At least for Kira that's life and not death.

The pred dose seems high to me. Mira was 1/2 twice a day. Kira is twice that. I don't want to pester Dr S if can help it.

She just flopped on her back briefly... her cuts isn't hardly red at all now. Marvelious!

[Marlene]

Trying to figure out medications can be so, so stressful!! I am following Kira's progress and cheering her on as hard as I can! If you are concerned, pester the vet. You deserve the attention and consultations for Kira. Hoping for positive posts.

[Altira]

Thank you for following. I just faxed Sebestyen and told him I cut back half on the tramadol and she hasn't pooped in a day and a half. Kira used to poop four times a day easy. As I now know was from the cushings and excessive water intake. I also told him she is having a bad incontinence problem. She is soaking herself often and the towels around her. She is whinny because it upsets her I think. I told him I thought her water intake was normal but now that I look I think she's drank six cups so far today. Hum maybe that is excessive now that I think about it. Or it will be by the end of the day. On trilostane she was down to four or five. I think maybe that might be a good sign. I mean if the other adrenal gland starts working then this would happen right? If it doesn't happen. Doesn't start working then shell have to take prednisone the rest of her life right? And as I understand it that is not the end of the world but its not good either. Certainly not what we are hoping for.....

Somebody might see the fax right away but I don't expect to hear from Sebestyen until Monday.

[AlisonandMia]

I wouldn't worry about the other adrenal gland - the stim she had right after surgery shows that it is working although probably not producing enough cortisol to help her withstand the stress her body is under after the surgery - thus the additional pred she is on now.

IMO it is better to give a bit too much prednisone after adrenal surgery than too little. We've seen a couple of dogs who's vets wanted to wean them off the pred steeply and quickly and they didn't do so well although they bounced back well after the pred dose was increased.

I don't think we have ever seen a dog that needed to stay on pred after having only one adrenal gland removed - if they have to have both taken out then obviously they must stay on pred for life but if they have one remaining, as Kira does, then in time the remaining gland kicks in and has no problem producing enough cortisol. Once the initial stress of the surgery is over then I've no doubt they will start weaning her off the pred she is on now.

I think what you are seeing now is the result of major surgery, some big physiological changes with the tumor being removed and likely the effect of pain meds - and maybe she's getting just a shade more pred than she needs. I wouldn't adjust the pred dose without Dr. S's knowledge and input though.

I bet this time in a month (or maybe even a couple of weeks or less) all this will be behind you.:)

Alison

[Altira]

Bless you Alison! You really made my day with that. I'm feeling a lot more hopeful now. Thank you, Thank you!!

[Altira]

Does that rule out pituitary cushings too?

I took her for a slow controlled walk around the block tonight. A sinch compared to what we normally do. She was a good girl and stayed at my side but she kept a slight constant tension on the leash the whole way. It really wasn't far enough to say for sure but I did sence something encouraging.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

The pituitary gland is in the head while the adrenal glands are in the belly (as you well know! :p). Removing the adrenal tumor and associated gland will not, unfortunately, prevent a tumor from developing in the pituitary gland. However, that is extremely rare. For a pup to have ADH (adrenal based Cushing's like Kira) or PHD (pituitary based Cushing's) is the norm. For a pup to have both ADH and PDH is extremely rare. The rate of incident of true Cushing's is:

1- PDH
2- ADH
3- PDH & ADH

Meaning that PDH is the most common form (85%); ADH is the second most common form (15%). 85% + 15% = 100%. The incident of a pup having both forms is so minuscule, it doesn't figure into the percentages.

I agree with Alison in that what you are seeing that looks like cush signs are more than likely the result of the stress of the surgery and pred. As her body adjusts and the other adrenal kicks in, these signs will abate. It took Squirt a good month to return to normal after her surgery and she didn't have an adrenal gland removed. But the stress of the surgery changed how her body functioned for a while as it adjusted and healed from the trauma of surgery.

Hang in there! You are doing great! I am so happy that Kira took a walk and seemed to enjoy it. That will help her, I'm sure!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Well that certainly puts things into perspective regarding the possibility of have pituitary cushings too. Thank you. She definitely enjoyed the walk. She would have liked to go farther. But we don't really have the ok to be walking at all. Bud said just go, so we went. She is not happy about being confined to the kitchen however. I think I recall her having a problem after knee surgery too. I have such a terrible memory but it seems familiar.

[Altira]

Wonderful news!

I just talked to doctor Sebestyen. (I didn't get to record it so this is all from memory and could be slightly off) I told him what Steve (Dr. Steve) said about her looking completely healed and in no pain. And that I had stopped giving her the tramadol and she is not soaking herself now but she is still incontinent and still having bowel issues.

I asked if he had seen anything else while he was in there and he said no everything looked fine. I asked about her liver because he said it was enlarged. Will it stay enlarged? He said it depends on how bad it is and we will know more from the biopsy. But possibly it might shrink a little. Her liver damage is from the Cushing's. He said the ACTH Stim test shows that the right gland was suppressed. That means the left adrenal gland tumor was producing cortisol. I asked if this ruled out pituitary Cushing's and he said yes. YIPPY! I asked if this means she is cured and he said yes! YES! He said to start cutting back on the prednisone now to just one a day. He said that possibly will help with the bowel issue. I'm not sure if he said that this was common problem or not. We are waiting for a biopsy on the tumor too.

I told him that I had taken her for a walk. He wasn't real happy with this but said it was ok. He knows how Kira is on a leash. She is very hard to handle. I know they have a devil of a time with her. But if you give her the right command and have her attention she will heel at your side. And she did just fine with me. But I should still keep her quiet. We will see him on the 11th to remove the stitches. All 30 of them! I haven't had to put the cone collar on her at all. She doesn't mess with them. Bless her patchy furry butt!

[Casey's Mom]

Great news Janis:D:D:D

[Marlene]

This is such great news, Janie!!! So happy for you!

[Altira]

We lost 7 year old Mira to cancer a month ago. We found out too late, we didn't have a chance to save her. Bless modern technology advancements in the veterinary field! And people like doctors Deihl, Chung and Sebestyan. And thanks to my 93 year old dad who gave me the means to do this. And to Kira for being so strong with a will to live bless her heart. And to all the people here that faithfully cheered me on and shared their knowledge. Who picked me up and brushed me off countless times! I am so very very lucky.

[Altira]

More good news:

Kira's tumor biopsy came back benign. He said this was great news and should be good results altogether!

The liver biopsy is still pending.

God blessed my pretty Kira. Now let's bless her with some fur and rearend muscle.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Janis!

So much good news for you and Kira! :D:D:D I am so happy the tumor was benign and I hope the liver pathology is just as wonderful!

Six months from now, you won't even be able to tell she had this surgery or problem, I just bet! This is all going to be a bad memory for you both in no time!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[addy]

I am so happy, Janis, that you continue to get good news. You certainly deserve to, Kira too!!!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

So glad to hear about your Kira. We need to hear the good.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo.

[Altira]

Ok then here is more!

Mrs. Beghtol
Liver came back benign changes only secondary to the Cushing's.*

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!!!
God blessed my Kira....

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Janis,

Big..Big smiles here. So happy you got the good ...very good news :D

[lulusmom]

I feel like jumping up on my desk and doing a happy dance for you and Kira right now....but I'd like to keep my job so I'll just say; HIP, HIP HURRAY!!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Woohoo!!!!!

[frijole]

Whoop Whoop!

[Altira]

Me smiling too reading your responses.

Count me in too!! TRAMADOL has lots more side effects then just drowsiness!!!!!

[labblab]

Oh, Janis, I am so verry happy for you guys, too!!!!!!! Big-time congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marianne

[Altira]

Kira and Neeka together unrestrained! Smile...

We got the stitches out and the ok to let puppy loose with Kira. Poor Kira is having to deal with the puppy teeth too. I think she's a bit frazzled from getting the stitches out. My hands are covered with bites. I'm learning to growl and snap pretty good though.

Our appointment couldn't have been better at this point. We get to start cutting back more on the prednisone to the last stage. That's two weeks ahead of normal. We won't see any great change in her until she is off the meds. Prednisone mimics cushings so at this point nothing has changed.

I think he might even let me stop this last stage sooner then normal also.

In two weeks we go back for a ATCH STIM test and that will tell us for certain if the other gland is working. He says they always do but it could take awhile.

So at present all is well in doggie land! Finally! Well except for puppy diarrhea. Neeka goes to the vets on Thursday for the normal puppy things.

[Roxee's Dad]

Very glad the good news on Kira keeps coming :D:D:D

[Bichonluver3]

WAY TO GO, KIRA!!!!! Hugs & kisses from our house to yours.:D:D:D:D
Love,
Carrol & Chloe

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Janis,

Ain't good news WONDERFUL?!?!? :D Heaven knows, you are certainly due some!

I am so very, very happy that everything for sweet Kira has turned out so well!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Kira speaks to God...
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2278

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

What a precious pic! But I think Kira could be saying,

"Thanks for my mom who loves me and worked so hard to help me be better, who took such wonderful care of my sister, Mira, and who brought this new sister into my life. You have blessed me and I thank You."

I happen to think you are a blessing, too. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Ok Leslie, you got me crying. What a sweet thing to say!

Kira is doing fine. There is a spring in her step! And she's real insistent that she be out front on our walks like a true husky should be. Imagine that, I'm complaining about pulling! Well complianing about having to keep reminding her not to pull. Being out front is not a problem, thats where i want them... where i can see them. But i dont like it when they drag me. Maybe we are growing some fur on the bald spot on her back. It's hard to tell. Bud and I both agree that the area is looking smaller. Eating and drinking and peeing are still a big problem. Not incontenant but she cant go for a walk without peeing twice and imake her go right before we leave too. Shes peeing mid sized lakes! She's being terrible about food, steeling food. She is so sneaky! She has done that off and on for years but it's real bad right now.

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' friend,

How are things at your house these days? I know your hands are full training Neeka...what fun, huh? LOL I imagine Huskys demands as much from their parents as Pittys do! My Crys was so full of it! :p I couldn't, well shouldn't have ;), let her get away with the least little thing or she thought that meant all the rules went out the window! :p Just about everything we did was training and reinforcing....and I loved every minute of it! She taught me so much more than I ever taught her.

How is our sweet Kira doing now? Is she still on the pred? How are the cush signs now? Has she had any follow-ups with the docs?

I am proud to see you sharing yours and Kira's experience with other members facing ADH diagnoses. :D Most cush pups have PDH and there are plenty to share that side of Cushing's with others. But ADH is not as common and those who can choose adrenalectomies even fewer. So it is such a blessing to our family when folks like you and Ken stick around to share your experiences, strengths and hopes with others.

You have so much to offer; you have had to face incredible obstacles and tragedies since you came to us, yet you held on and have come out the other side stronger than you ever believed possible just a few short months ago. Thanks for being part of our little family.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Dr. Sebestyen called and said Kira's Stimualtion test (from yesterday) came back normal! We can stop all medication now. Yippy!!! We should start to see improvements in two weeks. He wants me to bring her back in a month to see if there are changes. (Mira died two months ago today. I needed some good news.)

[labblab]

Oh Janis, I am so relieved to hear Kira's news on this bittersweet day for you :o. It's amazing how wonderful the word "normal" can sound, isn't it?? ;) :)

What a road you have travelled over these past couple of months. But I am delighted to think that Kira's Cushing's journey may now be over and done with. And you realize this still doesn't mean you can leave us, YOU HEAR????????

Hugs in celebration and hugs in loving memory ~
Marianne

[Altira]

Leslie,

I loved the doggie story. I let my dogs get away with stuff too. All the training goes out the window. Little Neeka is a hand full to put it mildly. But damn is she adorable when she's sleepy.

I'm very happy that I can contribute to this site in some way it's the least I can do for all the love and support everyone here has given me since the moment I joined. Within the hour someone was there to help. Right there with me through the death of my Mira and here with Kira too. I will continue to post updates on Kira for sure.

Marianne, THANK YOU!

[Squirt's Mom]

:D:D NORMAL ACTH!!! :D:D

WooHoo!!!!!

[Roxee's Dad]

You did very good....Big smiley happy face for you and Kira :D:D:D

Heavy heart for you and Mira.

[Altira]

The ACTH test results from yesterday:

PRE-ACTH 2.5 (2-6)
POST-ACTH 14.2 (6-18)

[BestBuddy]

Janice,

Great news. It is nice to log on and see good news, really good news.

Jenny

[frijole]

I agree. Wonderful news and we all need that. :D Thank you thank you thank you Kira! Kim

[Altira]

Uh ho...
Kira Concerned!

Just sent this to Dr. Sebestyen

Kira’s poop is so dry, it’s crumbly and she pottied in the house last night. Her water consumption yesterday was very bad. She drank at least a gallon it seemed like and still wanted more. Bud and I both thought she didn’t look overly well Tuesday night. Could this be from the prednisone? I’ve been feeding her mostly Science Diet Light dry food for years. Should I try canned food? I thought it was the weather but now I think things are changing. Our first husky (who was very sick), pooped what looked like sand right before we had him put to sleep. So I’m real concerned. Please advice…

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

Let us know what Dr. S has to say!

FYI,Science Diet's primary ingredient is corn...dogs cannot digest corn. ;) Also, kibbles will made dogs drink more than canned, home cooked, or raw feeding will. So keep that in mind when you look at the amount of water Kira is drinking.

With her drinking so much water, it is strange that her poops are so dry. :confused: Does she strain to poop? I wonder if this is a side effect of the pred? I know it can really dry out the skin with prolonged use as well as thin it a great deal. My dad's skin was literally like tissue paper because he had to have pred for so many years.

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Oops I think I figured it out.

I wanted her to have something specail for all she's been through. So I got her these beef knee bones that are rather crumbly. I forgot about that. And the more I think about it, her poop started looking odd at about the same time. Dr Sebestyen did call (bless his heart) he seems to think that is possible too, beings everything else seems normal at this stage. The weather here has been rather wind and dry too. I told him that she didn't look well the night after her STIM test. He said that could just be stress. I'm going to stop giving her the bones for a few days and see that happens. Sebestyen is very interested to know.

By the way... I asked if these beef knee bones i got from Petco were safe. He said for 99% of dogs they are. I got to tell you that they are wonderful for Kira. She normally devoures everything in seconds and swallows chew treats whole!!! She doesn't do that with these. Its just a small two inch bone, and it has lasted her two days!! They are hard and rather crumbly and probably do wonders for her teeth. I hope to give them to her again at some point.

Leslie...
He said it probably wasn't the prednisone. I know that it does have bad long term effects in humans and dogs but Kira hasn't been taking it that long. Well she has been for six weeks. I don't know I could be wrong.

I was feeding Kira Taste of the Wild Salmon recently. Then she got bad diarrhea just weeks before surgery so dr Chung suggested I go back to the Sceince Diet that she had done well with for so long. That seemed to help. I do plan to try the TOTW Salmon again (that's what Neeka's breeder feeds her Huskies) or some other better quality food. I don't understand why vets promote Sceince Diet!

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Janis!
I had problems with my 3 dogs and eating (Chloe with Cushings, Sparky with diabetes and Grover who is just a character!!). I had them on Hill's Science Diet WD. They would just sniff and then walk away. After research and suggestions from others on site and K9diabetes, I chose Embark which is a natural dry complete diet that you reconstitute with warm water (The Honest Kitchen). My vet checked out and said it was a good diet. I add 1 or 2 TBL of Evo Chicken & Turkey (canned food) and they gobble it down!! I don't give much of the canned due to the higher fat content. I still give Chloe a few WD kibble at night as she likes to play with them:rolleyes: Just a suggestion. I think there must be a link between vets and Hill's Pet Nutrition;)
Carrol

[Squirt's Mom]

Most vets are woefully undereducated when it comes to nutrition. Our vet in TN showed me her text book they used to cover nutrition when she was in school - just a few years earlier. It included 2 chapters. And that was it! :rolleyes: Veterinary nutrition is a degree to itself.

Pet food companies pay vets to sell their food - they "educate" the vets on pet foods for the most part. Hill's Science Diet was originally designed as therapeutic diets for pets with medical conditions. It was made under the direction of a Dr. Mark Morris and was the first pet food that looked at the benefit of nutrition for our babies. The first Science Diet made was a for pets in kidney failure. Under Dr. Morris' direction, Science Diet was a great commercial feed. But as is so often the case, Hill's was sold to a conglomerate, Colgate-Palmolive, and the formulation changes began. Vets today are still lead to believe the modern Hill's is as good as the original and that is why we see so much of it in vet clinics.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Below is part of a follow up email I sent to Dr. Sebestyen today. Above my email is his response.*

Mrs. Beghtol

I am not sure why Kira appears *not well. I am hoping that once she is off the Prednisone you’ll see some improvement. The Pred could have long-lasting (2 weeks) effect after discontinuing it.* Let me know if anything else develops

Sincerely

Peter Sebestyen, DVM, Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Surgeons
Veterinary Surgical Specialist of Orange County
2965 Edinger Ave.
Tustin, CA* 92780
Tel.:* (949) 936-0055
Cell.: (949) 355-9530
Fax.:* (949) 936-0062

www.vssoc.com

*Hi Dr. Sebestyen,

RE: Kira Beghtol - general update

Friday (1/28) - poop normal all day

Friday (1/28) - she drank 9 to 10 cups of water

(While on Trilostane she was drinking 4 to 5 cups of water a day.)

Thursday (1/27)**Stopped giving*Prednisone pills

Overall Health:

She hasn't looked well since the ACTH Stim test. I was very concerned last night, she didn't seem well at all. (Maybe I worry too much. But my husband thought so too a few nights earlier.)* She is eating well and is walking well. Plenty eager to go on our daily walks and bounces right along.* Even still, to me she seems to be getting progressively worse though. I am concerned about how she will do off the prednisone. I will let you know if she seems to continue to get worse.

*She acts like she is starving. Getting into the trash many times lately.

We need to keep in mind that she is also dealing with a 14 week old Siberian Husky puppy who can be relentless. I keep them separated a lot. Kira is so tolerant! But she does get mad sometimes too. I can't let her play freely with the pup because she gets too ruff. She seems to know this and takes my cue.

Fur:

She is defiantly growing fur on her back now (8 months*after her TTA surgery). Dr. Chung and Dr. Deihl were confident*the Trilostane would make her fur grow again. It could have started then but it's very apparent now.

We will see you in a month...

*Respectfully,

Janis Beghtol

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

Kira's body has been under incredible assault for quite some time now so it isn't surprising that she doesn't seem quite right. There is no telling how long that tumor had been on her adrenal causing havoc. She was bombarded with meds to help prior to surgery - meds that put her body through another change. Then there was the surgery itself and more meds that cause changes. Winding throughout all of this was the stress of losing her buddy and knowing how badly her mom was hurting. And, it's only been a month since the surgery. ;)

The fact that her fur is regrowing where it hadn't before is a great sign! Coat issues are usually among the last things to show improvement so I take this as proof of improvements in her system.

The ACTH indicates her remaining adrenal gland is functioning as it should. So, having the pred still on board could be causing the cush signs you are seeing - she may have a bit too much corticosteriod in her system right now but as the pred leaves her system I think you will see those signs fade as well.

You are doing a great job of watching her!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Ok now she's limping! She did ok on our walk tonight. Not great but not limping then. She actually can home and willingly played with Neeka for about ten minutes. Then about two hours later I see her get up real slow and walk to the water bowl like her whole body hurt! Like a really bad case of arthritis. Really stiff. I gave her a doggie aspirin that we got from Dr Chung. Just a forth of one. Maybe helped. She was following me as it took me forever to locate the pills. She loosened up some but maybe got a bit wobbly.

Dr S has recent X-rays of three of her legs. I asked him about arthritis possibly being a problem for her. He said he did think so.

I don't even want to talk about the other possibilities. Mira couldn't walk for awhile just before she died.

Thanks for all the positive thoughts Leslie. I have great trouble with those lately.

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Janis,

When you said Kira seemed "stiff" getting up, it reminded me of how I have felt after stopping steroids. I hurt in places that had never hurt before and I think that is because the steroids just made me feel so darn good all over for a bit and then when they are gone, "normal" ain't quite as good as I remembered. ;):rolleyes: I think I had learned to ignore little aches and such until the steroid took them away.

Here is a link on how pred withdrawal can make humans feel and a list of the symptoms (signs in dogs):

http://arthritis.about.com/od/prednisone/f/withdrawaltaper.htm


...patients may develop symptoms of steroid (prednisone) withdrawal. These symptoms include:

* joint pain
* muscle pain
* fatigue
* headache
* fever
* low blood pressure
* nausea and vomiting

This link pertains to dogs and says that the withdrawal symptoms humans experience are very similar to those of dogs.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/prednisone-side-effects-in-dogs.html

So, it is possible what you are seeing is just the after effects of 1) the excess cortisol plus 2) the pred she was on following the surgery. So in effect, she has had steroids on board for quite some time and some withdrawal signs wouldn't be surprising.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Thank you Leslie. That helped. Very informative and well written article. The only thing it missed was tell me how long the withdraw (or symptoms) last. She has been off pred for ... well this is day 5. So I should expect the eating and drinking thing to go away. So far since being off it seems maybe worse. Then again water intake could have been slightly less but eating certainly was not. I'll monitor water better today. As far as lameness goes... This morning she is holding up her left front leg some almost making sure I notice but any actual limping is very slight. This leg also has a half golf ball size fatty tumor on the front upper part. I complianed to Dr S about this leg back when she had her second TTA surgery in May of last year. He x-rayed it then and found nothing.

Did your pains get better Leslie? Or are you just living with it? Are you taking anything else for that now?

I think I will email Dr S about this.

[Altira]

From doc... I'm pretty sad..

Mrs. Beghtol

It is very likely that arthritis is the cause of the lameness. They always have a degree of arthritis with CCL tear, hers was very subtle, but nonetheless she had some and now without the Prednisone and the endogenous production of corticosteroids (Cushing’s is treated) she might be more clinical due to the joint pain. Sometimes the steroids and Cushing’s disease actually make them less lame with arthritis and when the Cushing is treated they become more stiff and lame. It could also be just the lack of muscle strength since she has not been able to develop good muscle tone with the Cushing’s. Either way Etogesic would be appropriate and I would just give it to her occasionally as needed. Hopefully she will not need it very often. Etogesic is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory like aspirin and it could cause stomach ulcers or kidney damage. Etogesic probably one of the safest one to use , but there is still a small risk. I think if she is limping she should have it , but I would not give it all the time

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

How is Kira doing these days? Has her limping improved?

How is the training coming with Neeka? Are you about broke in? :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Kira... After resting her for a few days I took her for a walk tonight. We went about a mile and I didn't think we would make it home. Now she's limping badly on her back leg and she was crying some. (So was I). I just wanted her to be better. She's been off the pred for two weeks now. She's drinking like ten cups of water a day. Twice what she should be.

Neeka is being a normal difficult husky puppy. One day she'll do it, the next she just does as she pleases. She gets the rest of her shots on Monday. Then she can hit the city sidewalks. I was trying to get Kira and Neeka to walk side by side in the back yard. Kira was pretty good at following my direction but all neeka would do is bite Kira as we went along. I have to stop and pry her off Kiras neck. I'm using one leash with a split line attached. I end up holding the leash and Neeka's end of the split line to keep her off Kira.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

Is Kira taking anything other than the Etogesic for the arthritis? If so, there are some other things you can to do help the joints. Fish oils and Vit E to start with. You want the fish oil with the highest EPA and DHA in it that you can find as these are the Omegas that will help. The Vit E is to keep the oil from oxidizing in the system which causes free radicals.

If Kira like pineapple and papayas, those are also helpful in relieving inflammatory pain. The Bromelain in the pineapple and Papain in the papaya are the enzymes that help and can be bought in a supplement form as well.

One thing I gave to Crys that she really loved was the gristle and cartilage from cooked meats like beef, chicken, turkey, and deer.

In addition to these, there is glucosamine, condroitin, hyluronic acid, Boswellia, devil's claw as well as several other herbs, SAMe, and acupuncture. Anti-oxidants like Vit C can also be used. Kim has had a lot of luck with a product called Duralactin. Here is a link to a thread on this:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2635

Some pups are sensitive to the nightshade group of food, causing inflammation to worsen in arthritis. These include all potatoes EXCEPT sweet potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant and peppers. When you see "modified food starch" listed as an ingredient, this is a potato starch (not sweet potato).

If you have someplace where Kira can get some hydro-therapy that will help as well. Many larger cities now have places where you can take your pup for this. Squirt only gets to swim in the warmer months but I could tell it really did help her this past summer when we swam at least once every day.

There's a lot that can be done to try to help Kira with the pain and inflammation but it may take some trial and error to find the right combination for her. Just don't get discourage about it. I know how painful it is for us to see our babies in pain and to feel so helpless but we really aren't - it just takes some work and determination. My poor Crys had so many deformities from early neglect but she was able to enjoy her life with a combination of supplements, herbs, diet and conservative management...and a whole bunch of love.

On Neeka, I wonder if it would be easier to train her to lead while she was separated from Kira then put them on a split lead? I have never tried to use those so I am just thinking out loud here. Our Saskia (SasAndYunah) is an animal behaviorist and she has helped many of us here with things like this so I'm sure she would have some pointers for you if you like. Her suggestions worked wonders in Crys and our little psycho, Goldie, who now lives with her dad and is terrorizing the state of FLA. :p

Stay in touch! I worry about you when you are silent, ya know. :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Altira]

Whow... Too much information for my pea brain. Neeka's breeder says she feeds her huskies yogurt. I hate to keep pestering her. Does any one know which kind? Leslie? I have been giving them Mountain High All Natural Plain. Poops around here has been very healthy for weeks. But this yogurt has some sugar. Good lord little Neeka doesn't need sugar! I couldn't find sugarless.

KIRA UPDATE: She has had two bouts with leg pain the last two times I walked her. Once the front leg that lasted several days and then the back leg that didn't last long at all. I'm not walking her now. (sob) I took Neeka to our regular vet (dr.watson) yesterday and we talked about Kira. I'm really not convinced Kira is cured. I've yet to see a blood test that looks closer to normal. So we talked about running tests to see. Urine tests too. I also told him about the Etogesic for her leg pain which seems to work well but I've read so many bad things about it. I only give her a 1/4 pill when she really needs it and she's a 66 pound dog. I have also been giving her Dasuquin every day for a month now. That could be helping. The glucosamine. Dr. Watson said he could get together with Chung and Sebestyen and talk about a possible long term plan for Kiras leg pain. I think that would be great if they all got together. Even more so if we do these followup tests. I think it would be good for them all to see just what we really ended up with. I'd like to know as well. I know you have mentioned all these natural things Leslie. I did the fish oil over a year ago and that was a diareha disaster. I'm not good at just trying things. You know Watson and probably the others too, still swear that Tramidol is the best and safest pain killer. Maybe if Kira is really cured of Cushings, or whatever she had, she might react to Tramidol differently. Tramidol doesn't show any horror stories other then those here (Kira included) and it's dirt cheep!

[Altira]

I just had to share this recent picture of Kira with you. Taken a few days ago. I have lots of happy pictures of Kira but none quite like this one.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2397
Better still.. it was cropped from this one. Does this mean she likes Neeka?
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2395

[Altira]

Neeka at 9 wks
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2398
Neeka 7 wks later!!
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2399
They aren't little for long... We are moving into the "hell on wheels" phaze. (Do what I want! I no listen!)

[Altira]

Kira! GEEZ more concerns. She probably has an injury on the side of her muzzle from Neeka, who constantly bites at her face. But it doesn't look like an injury. It's a spot about the size of a dime. A round patch that is void of fur. The skin is not broken and it doesn't look like the fur was ripped out either. It just looks like missing fur. I know Cushings causes fur to fall out. Can this happen to the face too? Probably I worry too much. Probably she banged on something trying to get away from Neeka. But..

She has averaged 8 cups of water a day for the last eleven days and she is still peeing huge puddles. She hasn't hardly moved from one spot all day. I took her for a short walk and she was limping on the back leg a bit and we creeped home. The fur on her back stopped growing again. When i feed her, i make her back away and sit/stay and then watch me before i let her eat. If i didnt she'd knock the bowl right out of my hands! But... Two times in the last two days when say ok she just stands there looking at me. Maybe that's a good thing and maybe not.

I know it sounds like I worry too much but Mira didn't tell us anymore then this either and she died from cancer a month later. Anything out of the normal, or is not improving worries me. There wS something else too but I forget what it was.

[AlisonandMia]

Sorry to hear that Kira is still giving you worries.

I doubt the bald spot on the muzzle is Cushing's related. I'd ask the vet about it.

Has Kira been tested for diabetes? Diabetes typically causes thirst and excess urination, hunger and lethargy - and, because it is a serious illness, will likely stop fur growing while it is untreated. It is quick and cheap for a vet to check out and is something that needs to be ruled out ASAP, IMO. If it is diabetes (and I'm not saying it is!) it can be treated and a diabetic dog can live out its normal life expectancy with a great quality of life.

Alison

[Altira]

Thanks Alison. I would think with all the testing they did on Kira they would have looked for diabetes. But maybe not. I did at one point ask if there was something we might be missing and both doctors said possibly. Sheesh.

Oh her tummy is not decreasing either.

[AlisonandMia]

Diabetes can come on literally overnight so although she may have tested negative for it in the past she could have it now.

Unlike Cushing's it is easy to test for and the results will usually be pretty conclusive one way or the other.

Alison

[Altira]

Ho hum. Took Kira for a short walk today. We made it about a quarter mile then she slowed to a crawl. It started raining and we were hardly moving. Actually she really never got going. She certainly wanted to go. She wasn't visibly limping but I didn't have the heart to push her. I keep remembering those last walks with Mira. I gave her a 1/4 of a pill this morning and another after the walk. When we got home I gave her a once over for about thirty minutes. I swear that dog has no pulse!!! I can never find her pulse. And she breaths so loud I can't hear her heart. It seems like I can feel the metal parts in her back legs more then before. I almost called the vet but what was I going to tell him? Then later she laid on the floor and played "bite your face" with Neeka. I was holding Neeka on a leash. Kira could have moved out of her reach but she didn't. In fact after about twenty minutes, Kira got to her feet and started playing in ernest. Having a great time but she started playing to ruff, so I ended that. About a half an hour later Kira is limping real bad.

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud and feeling sad. We have an appointment with Dr. S on Thursday. Before the surgery we were walking a good three miles a day. BRISKLY! No limping. Even after the surgery. We quit the pred and it's all gone to hell. And seems to keep getting worse. I'm wondering if I'll ever get to walk the dogs together on the street.

On a happier note... Neeka has been walking the streets with me at least once a day since last Monday. And doing amazingly well for a 4month old puppy. And a husky no less. She turned 4 months old today. At first she wanted to chase cars! We still have trouble passing people and dogs. But I can get her to sit and wait at street corners and come to me and walk with slack in the leash. Which is very hard to get a husky to do. It's very hard to get an excited husky to listen. Neeka gets it right and she looks like the cutest thing I ever saw. People oh and ah at her. She's so little.

[Altira]

We go see Dr. Sebestyen tomorrow. Below is part of I fax I sent to him tonight:

MY THOUGHTS
*
I just get this odd feeling that something is wrong. Somehow I don’t think it’s just the arthritis. She can’t go for walks. She wants to but it scares me cus I’m not sure she’ll make it back. We go a half mile or less and she just suddenly stops and refuses to move. Then we just creep home from there. Yet she doesn’t limp when we get home. The bounce in her step is definitely gone and so is the energy and enjoyment. At home one minute she looks happy and the next she looks very ill. So much so it gets me crying. I feel like I’m losing her. She will lay in the same spot for hours. Life just doesn’t seem so happy unless ther is food involved. If she plays with our puppy (which she loves to do) she’s in pain afterward, limping and whimpering. This is all a disaster to me. Her rear end seems very weak. I run my hand down her back legs and I can feel them shaking. Mostly the left side. Her legs shake badly when she potties too. There are some good changes but the bad ones seem to over shadow the good ones.
*
I talked to Dr. Watson about her. I’m thinking about having him run some tests on her. Blood tests and urine tests. (have her checked for diabetes too.) Just to see what we have now. He mentioned maybe getting together with you and Dr. Chung and figure out how to help her with the arthritis on the long term. I very much hope you guys can do that. I don’t want her to hurt

[Altira]

Kira Update..

Todays visit with the surgeon...

Dr. Sebestyen agrees that follow up tests would be good and should be done right away. And he's perfectly fine with Dr. Watson doing the tests. He is going to call him and they will work together on it. This makes me very happy. He couldn't find anything that jumped out at him as being wrong. She did have trouble getting up and her legs were shaking but she wasn't limping. He said the trouble getting up was likely due to the rear end weakness. (Dispite all the walking we have been doing since last May the Cushing's was preventing her from gaining any muscle mass. So it's like we never even did it! That problem should be gone now. We are still starting from square one but in time we should see some improvement.) I'm suppose to keep walking her even though she's acting oddly. I assume that means she can play with Neeka too. I'm to up the pain med's I'm giving her to a full pill a day which was the prescribed dose. He said we should see a difference in her limping and pain from that. He says go ahead and push her. As far as something else being wrong the blood work will tell us where we stand. He doesn't think she has diabetes. They didn't see it before and it's unlikely that it came up this quickly but they will look for it. If we don't see a difference with the increased medication then there might be something else. He's thinking possibly Addison's. He said it's very unlikely but possible. If so, that means the other gland isn't adequate and she may need to take prednisone again. He said there are things that can be done to manage her pain in the long term.

This is pretty much what I expected him say. It was good to know that he couldn't find any major problems with her legs. I was worried about her hips too but he doesn't think there is a problem there. That's a relief. I want to do everything we can to make her last days (hopefully years) as happy and pain free as possible. Even if that means giving her drugs that might create problems later. I want happy days for her and I think she would feel the same way about this whole thing. She didn't look overly well today, so he did get to see what I'm talking about.

He wants to see her again in three months no matter what.

[labblab]

Hi Janis,

I'm afraid I don't have any words of wisdom to add :o, but I want you to know that I am following all of your updates and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Kira will start bouncing back once again. You've all been through so much -- you surely deserve a BIG break at this point!!!

Please give both your girls some special hugs for me. And I'll be hoping that your next update contains some improvement.

Marianne

[Altira]

Thanks Marianne. We went to Doctor Watson yesterday for the blood test won't know on that until Friday. He suggested I take her to a therapist. They have a water treadmill that he says can build up her rear end muscle a lot faster then me walking her. She has an appointment in a couple weeks for a consultation and an hour workout.

[Buffaloe]

Hi Janis,

The water tread mill sounds like a great idea! It will build up Kira'a muscles and get her excellent exercise with no impact. I made Shiloh do "water aerobics" in the pool and I believe it helped her alot. She didn't much like it, she'd try to hide from me. But it was great exercise and it built up the muscles in her rear legs.

Honest to goodness, I think Kira is going to be just fine. She is cured of the adrenal cushing's. It seems like there must be something else going on. I wonder if she might need some prednisone? I suppose the ACTH test should give you the answer but it seems like she started feeling a little worse when she was done with it. Maybe her remaining adrenal gland isn't doing quite all it needs to do. That's my only thought.

I think it's always a real good idea to occasionally have a blood panel done on our senior dogs.

I'm not sure that 8 cups of water a day is all that excessive. Shi drank 5.5 quarts every day prior to her adrenalectomy. After her adrenalectomy, she was healthy as could be and still drank 5-6 cups of water every day.

The fact that Kira is playing with the puppy tells you she is feeling pretty good. If she was feeling lousy, she wouldn't be playing. Her playing is a huge positive.

I know your surgeon or vet told you to push her some on walks. I'm not so sure I agree with that. I never tried to push Shiloh. She had already earned her spurs (as has Kira) and I always let her walk just as far and fast as she wanted.

The water treadmill is going to be great for Kira. Hang in there and enjoy every moment with your girl.

Ken

[Altira]

Ken! Hello! Always good to hear from you..

Yup the trouble started about five days after stopping the prednisone. But if the other gland isn't working right she would be showing signs of Addisons right? Dr S said if that is the case almost aways they don't want to eat and that is certainly not the case with Kira. Glad you agree with the follow up tests which were completely my idea. Some may be shaking their heads at me and I sometimes wonder myself. But gee we've come this far.

5.5 quarts? Holly cow! I think Kira is come down to 5 or 6 cups now. That happened pretty quickly in the last several days. We come home from walks and Kira is ignoring the water bowl. That is a giant change. I cant even remember a time when she didnt go diving for the water bowl. But I wonder cus she pants for at least an hour, maybe two, after we get back. I'll be plenty cooled off myself and Kira is still huffing. Maybe it's pain.

She doesn't always want to play with Neeka. Sometimes I have to go save her. I listen carefully when they are together. You can tell when Kira doesn't want to play. She makes a quiet complaning sound. Maybe about half the time she wants to play. Somedays she tells me not to separate them.

So glad to agree with the water therapy. When the vet first mentioned it he said it would build her up faster and all I could think was yes that would be wonderful! They can get her used to it then we can take her to the pool at my folks vacation home in the desert. But of course this place wants to put her on a complete program. And my husband says she walks just fine. Well she doesn't! There has been a giant change since stopping the pred. He wasn't walking with her then. Anyway I was starting to wonder if I wasn't fighting a hopeless battle. So I'm most greatful for your input cus I really think we should give this a go. This is not just arthritis. She has very little muscle strength in her rearend. I would start her tomorrow but we are going out of town next week. Did you make your dog swim on her own or did you help support her?

[Altira]

I see the title has changed to "(successful adrenal surgery)" thats nice to see. I hope it attracts attention. I hope this thread helps someone out there some how.

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Janis!
So happy for you and Kira. It is so nice to see good news. Maybe she is panting after the walk due to the exertion. maybe she needs to get into shape:D (and look who's talking:rolleyes:).
So your folks have a v acation home in the desert. We live in the desert near Palm Springs. Small world:)
Again, congratulations on the surgery and I wish only good health from now on for our Kira.
Carrol

[Altira]

Ha! We are just on the other side of the mountain from you in Borrego Springs. We take that nose bleed highway that starts at Rancheta to get there. Whoopie! The temp goes up like ten degrees in fifteen minutes. We actually live five miles from Disneyland.

[Altira]

Happy dancing... We got the blood test results that compares Kiras blood test on Oct 28 2010 and the one done last week. A very good before and after comparison. I have emailed a copy of it to the forum address. We are leaving in the morning I don't have time to type it all out. But I will tell you that I talked to the surgeon about it and he said in. "It looks really good. The Lipase is a bit high which could mean pancreatic problems but normally ????? is elevated too and hers isn't." if any of you experts behind the scenes get a chance to look at it I'd love to know what you think...

Now I need to convince Kira that she's just fine. She's been rather tired and mopy today. I gave her a bath and blow dried her for over a hour. Her fur is so thick it can stay wet for days. I think she enjoyed it. Her eyes drifted closed several times.

[labblab]

Hi Janis,

I had a chance to quickly scan Kira's lab results that you emailed, and here are a few of the results that may be of interest to people. I had some trouble making out the units of measurement from your scanned labsheet, so I may have made some errors with that. But this is what I think I'm seeing. For the most part, it looks as though her results are within normal ranges, so I am not posting everything. YAY! But here are some improvements: :) :)

Alk Phos: 354 (2010); 192 (2011); 10-150 UL (normal)

ALT: 117 (2010); 101 (2011); 5-107 UL (normal)

Amylase: 1101 (2010); 1108 (2011); 450-1240 UL (normal)

Cholesterol: 378 (2010); 203 (2011); 112-328 mg/dl (normal)
_________________________________
However, here's the increased Lipase:

Lipase: 1470 (2010); 2017 (2011); 100-750 UL (normal)
__________________________________

And just for interest, here are some thyroid results:

T4: 1.4 (2010); 1.6 (2011); 0.9-3.9 ug/dl (normal)

Free T4 tested in 2011: 1.0; 0.8-3.7 ug/dl (normal)
Free T4 results also given in a unit that I can't make out: 12.9; 7.7-47.6 ? units (normal)

Marianne

[Altira]

Thank You Marianne... We are out at the desert now but I was very intersted to see your opinion. I think I should read up on this Lipase thing.

The other changes you see, would you say those were related to Cushings?

Can't beleive I never asked that before.

I never knew what in her blood tests (of which she had many) indicated cushing's, if any of them. She wasn't tagged for cushings until the ultrasound found the tumor.

[Altira]

UPDATE:

Talk to Dr. Watson today. He says Kiras blood test is very good and he sees no reason to worry about the high LIPASE. Just like the surgeon said there would be something else high too if it were her pancreas. She also has no symptoms of pancreas problems at all. *We are going to do a urine test. I'm taking a sample in this afternoon.

Kira went to therapy today. They think she has a bad back. She said I should see the nerogical (sp?) doctor first. I asked what they could do and she said well an MRI. I said no. Lets just do the therapy and hope for the best. She probably does have a bad back but so do I! We'll just have to live with that. She can walk and she no longer has cushings or a tumor or that cancer threat. They did the therapy thing today that included the water treadmill. She came out feeling pretty spry and suprizingly dry for my "stay wet for three days" kira. She smells like tank water though. Pretty musty. I think we will do the water treadmill twice a week for a month or so. $75 each. Then I'll put her on our treadmill. Other then that anything that can't be handled with just medicine will just have to be. We kept her walking and we cured Cushings. We love her to pieces.*

[Buffaloe]

Janis,

I think everything sounds great with Kira! Her water consumption is definitely normal. Kira deserves to huff and puff for a while after her walks; I'm pretty sure you and I will when we're 75-80 years old, too. As far as the bad back, welcome to the club.

The water therapy sounds very good. If she goes once or twice a week, that should be plenty. Don't let them take advantage of you. Try to be sure Kira gets a real good work out each visit, mights well get your money's worth. Now you have a great excuse to visit your folks home in the desert and get Kira in the pool every day. It should be plenty warm from late May-late September.

With Shiloh, I would just get her in the shallow end of the pool and hold her under her tummy with one arm and the other hand probably on her neck. She would always instinctively dog paddle in place. I'd just have her do it for a few minutes. When I'd let her go, she'd make a bee-line for the steps. I definitely think it built up the muscles in her hind legs, at least some, and with absolutely no wear and tear.

I think things have worked out extremely well with Kira following her adrenalectomy. She sounds like a very happy, very healthy senior girl to me.

Ken

[Altira]

Thank you Ken. I know I should be very happy. I think some of the sadness and fear from Mira may still be spilling over. Kira's last walk with me was a good one. Close to a mile before slowing down. Course would rather she didn't slow down at all. Dr Watson seems very pleased with her current progress.

[Altira]

We got the the results from Kiras urine test. The whole thing is normal! Whoo hoo! Took her to her second water treadmill session. She tripped going up the curb when we left. Hopefully she was just tired.

[labblab]

Janis, that's great news about the urine results! :)

I'm sorry that Kira tripped, but as you say, it could just be that she was tired out, or just that she genuinely tripped on something. Once we get used to monitoring each and every little move so closely, it's so hard to "let go" and not worry. I sure can't give you any advice in that department, because I'm better at fretting than almost anybody I know...:o

But here's hoping you guys have a relaxing and stress-free weekend!
Marianne

[Altira]

Yeah and I'm totally gun shy after loosing Mira over what I was certain was just allergies. They just don't show their pain, so every little miss step gets burned in the worry side of the brain.

We got the reduction in water intake and ravinous eating and we got fur and very good test results, we got rid of Cushings, rid of a tumor. We didn't get increased energy, we didn't get a better quality of life probably due to unmasked arthritis and back problems. And a feeling she may not be here all that much longer. Daily meds is costing us $3.00 a day. Yeah I worry too much and cry lot. Kira and Mira. I just keep trying.

[Altira]

4 MONTH OLD "NEEKA" NEAR DISASTER STORY:

Normally puppy class is held just inside the front doors at Petco. I was just mentioning to the trainer that this was a dangerous place to have it. And the two foot restraining wall was not adequate. Three minutes later it happen! A puppy escaped! He ran pasted the front door, it opened (getting his attention) and out he went onto the parking lot!!!! NEEKA FOLLOWED HIM!!! Luckily Neeka ran onto the store and not out! But I didnt know that!! I couldnt see which way she went. *But the fella blocking the open door (the husband of one of the puppy owners) didnt look concerned. I dont know why he didnt direct me but he didnt. I asked which way did she go but he didnt answer. So i looked the other way and saw her on the other side of the registers. Of course when I called her she stopped, looked at me and desided not to come. She started running to the open front door! I leaped at her and missed! A dog coming in the door was barking at her and she stopped to say hello and I got her then. *Well that was our first attempt at a for real must COME command and failed!

The dog that got out in the parking lot was snagged by a woman who also had a baby on her arms! How she held on to that 50 pound rambunious puppy I'll never know. The trainer then started berating us about teaching our dogs to come to us!!! Well no kidding but why were we put in this dangerous place to begin with ... These are just puppies!!

[Altira]

Kira update:

Took Kira in for another therapy session. The girl said she thought Kira seemed better. If she had seen Kira a few months ago she wouldn't have thought so but yes I agree she seems better then she was the first time we went there. She said Kira seemed to be in a good mood too. That was nice to hear. I took her on a 2 1/2 mile walk the other day and she did just fine. She even played with baby Neeka for quite sometime after that. A couple hours later she was limping a little. I gave her a couple tramadol and that seemed to help. It was a big day and she just slept. I was walking both dogs separately twice a day. So the walks are not generally very long. Training Neeka... Yikes huskies I swear. She will do anything if I have a treat for her if not she won't do anything. I hate it when you say come and the go running the other way. Anyway im starting to walk them together. It's rather nerve racking. Neeka is no good at passing people or other dogs. Everyone wants to pet baby Neeka and she's just going nuts. If Kira gets excited too I'm in trouble. They are tied together and clipped to my waist. They are pulling on each other mostly. I was staying close to home until today we ventured off about 2 miles. Luckily the streets were fairly quiet and we did ok.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

Often others who see our babies less than we do are a better judge of what they are seeing. Changes can happen so slowly that we don't really notice them on a day to day basis but when someone sees them again after a time has passed, they see those changes right off. My niece who is in college came home a while back and noticed that Squirt looked different - she was looking like a cush pup for the first time and I had missed the changes. So take what the therapist said about Kira looking better to heart. :)

A 2 1/2 mile walk?!?!? Goodness! That is great! :D And still felt like playing with Neeka! :)

Puppies are so much fun, huh? :p About the time your hair has all been pulled out, your nerves are as frayed as they can get, your eyes are all bloodshot, and your jaws hurt from gritting your teeth - suddenly everything you have been trying so hard to teach is THERE! And all your effort is worth it. Neeka is going to keep you on your toes meantime so just have fun! I have to say that you are very brave to have both of them tied to your waist! I would end up being drug through town if I did that! :p

Keep the updates coming! I love reading about Kira and Neeka. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Leslie never ceases to get me smiling!

Right on all counts faithful friend. And I have not forgotten what you said... "give it six months and it will be like nothing ever happened" (it was something to that effect). Everytime I start complaining, that thought floats through my head. Boy I'm going to feel like a real idiot when six months proves you right! LOL! Thing is im not sure if that was six months from December 28th (the day of surgery) or from January 27th (the day we stopped the prednisone).

Care to clarify?

I think I started complaining 5 days after stopping the pred when things started getting bad.

Doggie story:
Neeka was really tormenting poor Kira this morning. Kira had taken cover under the coffee table. When things calmed down I asked Kira if she wanted to go for a walk and she started whining. POOR THING was stuck under the table!!!! She couldn't get up. I told her to stay where she was and Bud and I moved the table so she could get up! 64 pound dog under a 2 foot high table! She seemed releaved.... I wasn't sure she wanted to go, but Neeka was at least going, so I started getting ready. In the mean time, Neeka is laying by Kira, nipping her now and then, and when she wasn't, Kira was pawing at Neeka. It was so damn cute! I sat down and said "you want to go for a walk Kira?" just as I said it Kira lifted her paw and gave Neeka a good wak! It was like... "Not with her!!!" Bud and I cracked up! When I got to my feet, Kira got up pretty quick too. They both went. Kira did just fine. Neeka on the other hand... Oh well

By the way: Kira will be 11 years old on the 27th. And my Bud is having hip replacement surgery on April 8!! So I get to play nurse maid to him soon. Sheesh. He wont have a reason not to walk with us pretty soon. And I know he is just dying to! NOT! but I think he will for awhile when he can.

[Altira]

In Mira's thread I wrote about another strange encounter concerning Mira. Some of you might be interested. Leslie check it out. Here is a link below, see post #382

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=51620#post51620

[Altira]

KIRA UPDATE:

REBECCA RINGWALD, DVM, CCRP
REHAB PRACTITIONER SPECIALIST
3/7/2011

Examination
Ambulatory with mild paraparesis. No apparent lameness. Pain with simultaneous right shoulder flexion and elbow extension (biceps test). Forelimbs otherwise NSF. Slightly decreased CP (left worse then right), hyperextension of the 3rd and 4th digits, and mild-moderate muscle atrophy, both rear limbs. Stifles pain free with no effusion or thrust. Discomfort on full extension of both hips. LS and tail pain.

Diagnosis
DDx: Endocrine neuropathy/myopathy, lumbar myelopathy, right biceps tenosynovitis, other.
...................

My poor sweetheart... Does anyone know what all this means? I've been trying to figure it all out and I really don't like what I'm reading. It's all Greek to me, I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right things.

She doesn't move much at all, but seems to enjoy her walks.

[AlisonandMia]

KIRA UPDATE:

REBECCA RINGWALD, DVM, CCRP
REHAB PRACTITIONER SPECIALIST
3/7/2011

Examination
Ambulatory with mild paraparesis (Able to walk with mild weakness of hind legs). No apparent lameness (not apparently in pain when walking normally). Pain with simultaneous right shoulder flexion and elbow extension (biceps test). (I think this means pain when front leg pulled forward) Forelimbs otherwise NSF. (NSF = No significant findings) Slightly decreased CP (left worse then right)(I'm taking a wild guess here but I think CP may refer to Calcaneal Pitch (angle in hock joint), hyperextension of the 3rd and 4th digits (3rd & 4th toes hyperextended (probably not held bunched up as normal but more splayed), and mild-moderate muscle atrophy, both rear limbs (Some muscle wasting in the back legs/hips but not too bad). , Stifles pain free with no effusion or thrust (No problems in her knees). Discomfort on full extension of both hips. (Probably has some hip arthritis but is only feeling it when the hip joint is really extended - could be related to lumbar spine problem too, I guess) LS and tail pain. (I think LS means lumbosacral which refers to lower back and where the spine connects with the pelvis.)

Diagnosis
DDx: Endocrine neuropathy/myopathy, lumbar myelopathy, right biceps tenosynovitis, other.

She has some muscle wasting as a result of the Cushing's (high cortisol makes muscles waste and lose strength), lumbar myelopathy means a problem with the spinal cord in her lower back, sore tendons in right front leg.
...................

My poor sweetheart... Does anyone know what all this means? I've been trying to figure it all out and I really don't like what I'm reading. It's all Greek to me, I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right things.

She doesn't move much at all, but seems to enjoy her walks.

I think the upshot is that she is an older dog and has a lot of the aches and pains etc that come with old age. On top of that she has had Cushing's which has caused some muscle wasting and loss of fitness - and that can throw further stresses on joints etc. because the muscles that are meant to be supporting everything aren't able to do their job. Old age can bring a degree of muscle wasting too.

What pain/anti-inflammatory meds is she on? I'd imagine the swimming is great for her back and hind end problems but I wonder if it is doing so much good for the front leg at the moment? (Something to ask about!). How does she take to having warm packs put on her various sore places, particularly the sore biceps? Heat can be very soothing.

The general consensus with regards to arthritis/aches pains etc. is that regular gentle exercise is good - so it looks like you are doing the right things. Just be careful not to over do it. Sounds like being tied together with Nikka may not be a good thing however!

Alison

[Altira]

My gosh Allison thank you so much for that!!! And it's my guess that your inturpation (sp?) is right on. A lot of what you said reflects what I saw and what was said. I like what your saying a lot better then what I was reading.

Ok, I go back to walking the dogs separately. (ho hum) And god bless you for picking up on that. And for following my ramblings...

Ok I got to tell you something funny. It also tells you a lot about the mentality of my husband... Kira just stood up, gave a pretty good shake (yippy) then turned and licked the carpet. I said, she's having a potty problem. Bud said he saw her do it several times today. Then he went on to say, they must have kept her in the water too long today. Oh god I can't even repeat the rest of it but you can imagine what he said. Sure got me laughing. (Kira did the water treadmill today.)

[Altira]

Oops forgot to mention the girl doing the actual therapy last week said there was no pain in her front leg (at least non on that day). Kira takes one Dasuquin with MSM and one Etogesic everyday.

[Altira]

I'm so happy to hear there is nothing wrong with her knees. We invested a lot of money into those knees. Speaks well of doctor Sebestyen too. He fixed both knees. He also got a copy of this report. We see him again in a couple months, I'll ask him about this report then.

[Altira]

"Happy Birthday Kira! I'm so glad you are here with us!"

Kira 4 days ago...
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2545

She is 11 years old. She and Neeka get to share a pound of cooked hamburger today. And listen to me sing happy birthday to her all day long!

(Our husky Sasha lived 15 1/2 years.)

[Altira]

Neeka at 2 months
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2216

Neeka at 5 months
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2544

[Squirt's Mom]

:D Happy, happy Birthday, Kira!
11 years old today! :D


We wish you many, many more to come!

Here's to belly rubs and more hamburger! :p

Leslie and the gang

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh my gosh, Janis! Neeka has grown soooo much! Her face markings are absolutely stunning - she is beautiful! :D

My goodness, three gorgeous babies you have shared with us, allowing us to be a small part of their lives, and yours. What a proud mom you must be!

Thanks for posting the pics of Kira and Neeka!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cindy Thoman]

Happy Birthday Kira!! What a beautiful dog. Wishing you many more happy, healthy years!
xoxo
Cindy and Alex

[frijole]

Beautiful beautiful dogs. You are doing a great job with them and they are lucky to be so loved. Hope they enjoy their hamburger! Happy Birthday sweet Kira. This birthday is special. Kim

[Altira]

Thanks you guys. I'll give her a hug from each of you. She's pretty happy today. She knows what that song means. We just had our birthday hamburger few minutes ago, yum!

Kira is a husky through and through. She's used to going down the street and people telling her how beautiful she is. She seems almost disappointed if no one does. Neeka... They grow so fast. Her legs... She looks like a worm on stilts.

[Altira]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2565

[Altira]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2568

[Altira]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2566

[Altira]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2569

[Altira]

Kira update story:
I took the dogs for a long walk yesterday. Maybe four miles. Kira did very well. At one point we walked past a house that had their sprinklers on. There were like six of them going right along our path. Kira took a playful bite at everyone of them as we pasted by. She loved doing that when she was young.* I loved seeing her do that. Neeka just looked confused. They are walking together very well. Kira doesn't seem to mind.

Bud had hip replacement surgery a week ago. We had no idea it was so painfull. He's a mess.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janice,

I've been patiently waiting for an update on Kira and can't wait any longer. ;) Soooooo, how is she doing these days? How long has it been since her surgery now?

And Neeka - how are things going with her?

Hope to hear from you soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jrepac]

Gorgeous pix! Neeka is so big....I'm not used to seeing such fast growing dogs.....still struggling to figure out how big my chihuahua will get to be :p

Hope Kira is doing well!

Jeff & Angel Mandy

[Altira]

Hi Janice,

I've been patiently waiting for an update on Kira and can't wait any longer. ;) Soooooo, how is she doing these days? How long has it been since her surgery now?

And Neeka - how are things going with her?

Hope to hear from you soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

LOL! Ok Leslie!

Yes we saw Dr. Sebestyen today. And I have been working with Dr. Watson too. And I'm happy to say that although there are a few small concerns the over all consense on Kira is that she is doing very well considering all that she has been through.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=2769

It has been 5 months since Kira's Cushings surgery. It was December 28th 2010. And although she has been cured, a lot of lameness problems showed up. All of which was being masked by the Cushing's. It was a real scary time and is still sort of upsetting to me but the fact is that after surgery she could not walk very far without stopping. Just stopping. Something was very wrong. We have worked hard to make it better. The water treadmill helped, the daily walks have helped and the Etogesic has helped. As of today she can walk four miles just fine. Her and I poop out at about the same time! The rear end is the biggest problem. She is very reluctant to sit and when she does she sits really weird. She can jump up into the planter (which she is sniffing in the picture) no problem. But she has a big problem jumping up into our camper van that consists of two big steps. Bud says she just has trouble becasue it's odd to her. It's no higher then the planter.

She lays in the same spot for hours without moving. Staring. Which always worries me. She doesn't want to play with Neeka at all and Neeka pretty much bets her up anymore, and Kira just whines and does nothing to defend herself. Which is also upsetting. We also have verbal dog fights pretty often. Kira's life doesn't seem very happy and I cry cus I feel like I'm lossing her... except for the walks! She loves the walks!! Always excited to go and looks around with great interest at everything. She walks stiffly but I got to tell you she still has plenty of PULLING power! I have to use a pinch collar on her or I would not be about to walk her at all. She turned 11 in March. She can still hear and see very well. Can still catch treats no problem!

She has lost over seven pounds in the last 5 months. Dr. S says not to worry about that as long as she doesn't continue to loose weight.

About two or three weeks ago she started drinking huge amounts of water again and as much as she was when she had Cushing's. We went to see Dr. W and he did a urine test. In house and the detailed one too. It all came back fine. Dr. S said there is a slight possiblity that she still has a cortasol problem and he could do that stim test. It would be very rare for that to happen so we desided to wait and see what happens first.

Her fur is a mess. It looks dreadful! In fact in the above picture she is wet but when she is dry her fur looks pretty much the same way. I have tried everything you can image but nothing helps. It always looks matted and clumped together. I asked a couple Husky breeders what they thought and they both siad to get her Thyrod tested. We did that and found nothing wrong. Poor Kira I'm always messing with her fur. Dr. S says not to worry about it. Dr W is a bit concerned that something might be wrong. This was also the thoughts of the breeders too who have had zillions of Huskys and have never seen this sort of thing. Dr. W asked me to ask Dr. S about doing another blood test. Me and Dr. S both think it would be a good idea but lets wait 6 months. She just had a blood test done about three months ago and it came back very good. The chances that something has gone wrong this quickly isn't likely. So I'm good with that thought.

I look at that above picture and think "what the hell am I complaining about?" So things aren't perfect or as good as I hoped for. She's here, she's strong, and she can walk!!! Dr. S was acutally happy with her current condition. I told him I'm gun shy cus of Mira. I didn't have a clue she was so ill and 22 days latter she's gone. I look at Kira and I feel scared. Dr. S said if anything is going wrong with Kira I will know it. More then anyone else, I would know it. I think he may have had us come back 5 months after surgery just to know what I had seen cus he knows I'm watching so closely and I give the vets written notes for their records too.

Neeka...
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2770 http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2774 http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=2773

She is a 7 month old husky puppy with speed and lots of energy and health. And she's a darn good dog too. But the Kira and Neeka match isn't so great. I'm spoiled. Kira and Mira were perfect together. We have had 4 other matches over this 30 years and none came close to Kira and Mira. I lost so much! In the above picture Neeka is riping at Kira's fur and Kira does nothing. The ones on either end are from just days ago.

How did I do Leslie??

[Altira]

Here is a happy note...

I took Kira for a walk today... Just her and me. I had music blasting in my ear as normal as I watched Kira in front of me. Although she couldn't hear it, she seemed to bounce right along with the music. I couldn't help smiling at her. She was having a good day. We went down a few streets and turned a corner and I saw a man watering his lawn. I pulled one of the plugs from my ear to say hi to him as we went by. But before I could say anything he turned and looked at Kira and said... "now there's a happy puppy!"

[labblab]

Dear Janis,

It's so good to hear from you again, and you did a great job of updating us (I know Leslie will be very grateful when she has the chance to check back in ;)). I'm sorry to hear about the issues that remain for Kira. But I'm also so glad to hear about good days like yesterday.

After my experiences with my Cushpup and now my older girl who has developed seizures (well controlled at the moment, though, thank goodness!), I now know to never take those "good days" for granted. Back when each of my dogs was a healthy, energetic puppy, every day was a good day and I didn't really take much notice. I was very spoiled back then :o. But now I know that every good day is a gift and a blessing.

Thank goodness little Neeka is such a sturdy, happy girl. But I do understand your regret that she and Kira are not doing as well together. I'm sure that adds to your pain over missing Mira. But with each new day, there are new possibilities. So hopefully, with time, Neeka and Kira will end up blending better together.

Please give them both a big hug for me. They are both such beautiful girls, and I am so glad for your update.

And here's a big hug for you, too!
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Janis,

You're update was wonderful! It does me good to hear how well Kira is doing after her surgery. :) A four mile walk is GREAT! :D Squirt would report me for child abuse! :p Of course, we are both basically lazy. :D

Her coat doesn't look all that bad to me but you are the one who has seen her in her youth and at her best, so it stands tor reason you would pick up on it more than others. But in that pic of her standing, she looks good to me! Her attitude seems to be one of attentiveness and curiosity, which is also a good thing. I can see why that man thought she looked so happy when he saw ya'll walking. :) She IS! :D

I can just imagine that Neeka drives Kira up a wall at times! :eek::p When Crys was young, she did the same thing to the other dogs trying to get them to play with her. They seldom did, but she kept trying! As Neeka matures, I just bet you will see them settle into a more amicable relationship. I adopted a blind and deaf Dane once and she and my shepherd fought several times - bad fights. I had just about decided that Dinah, the Dane, was going to have to find another home when all of a sudden they fell into place. They became very closely bonded, with Syra, the shepherd, acting as Dinah's eyes and ears and remained that way the rest of their lives. ;)

Neeka is growing up to be a beautiful girl! I'm sure you are enjoying her! Like Marianne said, every day is a gift and a blessing regardless of how old or young, how healthy or ill. You're girls have been blessed to have a mom like you. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Kira Update:

Sudden new problem. I'm not sure I should call it a problem but it does bother me greatly. I think I mentioned that her fur has taken on a very odd clumping look. She's still has that. Nothing i do helps, she always looks a mess. And now just the other day I noticed the fur around her vulva has turned a very dark redish brown. It's stained and nothing will get it out! Poor thing. She has always been incontinent all her life but her fur always stayed pure white. Not the slightest discolored. She has always licked herself a lot cus of this but it was never a problem before. Either her sliva or her urine has changed composition. Or something has changed. It came on in like a matter of a week or two. I was hoping I was just seeing things. I emailed Doctor Watson about it but never heard back from him.

As for the rest of her condition it's pretty much the same. She lays in the same spot all day long. Doesn't move. She loves her daily two mile walk. No limping during or after. She likes to play in the planter when i let her go over there. She likes to go in the car. She won't play with our 8 mo old husky. The sudden increase in water intake I mentioned has lessened. I worry she just lays unmoving. But when she moves she seems fine. She jumps up and down from the planter just fine. She see's and hears just fine. Her lameness doesn't seen better or worse. And she eats ok. She has lost another couple pounds it think. I weighted her at 57 pounds. I have her at a nine pound loss since the first of February. *A steady loss at about a pound or two a month and still dropping. That of course is me lifting her onto our scale witch may not be accurate.

Anyone know what to do about the fur staining?

[Keiko's Mom]

Hi. My girl has fur and skin issues. She has alot of fluffy hair under her tail area and down the back of her rear legs. She went through antibiotics for UTI and we thought it was clear....until I saw blood and small clots in that fluffy hair (wouldn't have known it, otherwise). Vet used Chloramphenicol (had to wear gloves to protect me, but put it in her mouth !) to finally get it cleared up.....this was at same time as diag of Cushings and they said the blood was typical. The fluffy hair was staying damp and stained from all the peeing....figured it was going to be repeat infections. I very carefully trimmed back bulk of hair around vulva area and at back of legs. It looks okay and now no mess after peeing. The hair very close around vulva is reddish stained, too, afraid to trim and take chance of cutting her. Her body fur has always been very thick with some flaky area down her spine area. Now she has lost all of her undercoat and skin is flaky all over. I use a flea comb and very gently pull the shedding clumps. Don't know what to do special for the flakes...afraid to use dandruff type shampoo. I don't want to use any shampoo very close to vulva area...thinking how women get UTIs from bubble baths....so I'm not sure what to do, either. I will keep an eye on your posts to see if anyone else can help us. Keiko is good for slow one mile walk a day....gets up and monitors kitchen for treats and hugs, but lays around all day, even with her improvement. Before she got on medication.....it was like having a potted plant. She is better, alert and very happy. She is the largest husky that I ever had.....was always 63 pounds....got up to 75 with this.

[Altira]

Thank you for responding Keilo's mom! You have a husky too, cool! We have had six of them so far. Our Kira weighed as much as 73 pounds at one time i think. I fear like you that there really is no cure for this fur staining problem. I have tried cutting away some of her fur too like you did but it doesn't help much. Like you said you really can't cut it back too much.

Doctor Sebestyen wrote me back (bless his heart). He thinks the staining may be because her urine may be more concentrated now. That makes perfect sence. He also said due to the continuous weight loss I could have another ultra sound done but he wasn't overly concerned in either case, it's probably just aging.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hello?????

Been too long since we have heard from you, dear Janis! :p How is our girl doing these days? How are you doing?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Sheesh took me forever to log in!

Anyway, thanks for thinking of us. Kira is doing the same pretty much, no better no worse. She still has all the same problems and a few more. She's has a huge callious on her elbow and the fur around it has turned red. I don't get it she never ever licks it. I hired a bark busters dog trainer to help me with Neeka. He calls her quite a challenge. She still picks on Kira a lot. Hope all is well with you.

[Altira]

Our Kira is not doing overly well. Not well at all. Like Mira there is nothing solid to pin a problem to. Like Mira, minor things are being explained away. I fed her steak tonight. If we are loosing her I want to spoil her now. She was in the kitchen shaking tonight because the smoke alarm was going off. She continues to loose weight since her Cushings operation ten months ago. From 68 pound to 53 now. My sweety Kira. 11 year old Siberian Husky.

[labblab]

Oh Janis, it is so good to have you back on the forum, but I am so sorry to hear that Kira is doing poorly! Do you think there is any chance that her remaining adrenal gland has never "kicked in" properly, and that she may still need to be taking some supplemental prednisone?

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

Always good to hear from you...tho I wish you had better news to report on Kira. Has the vet said anything about what could be causing the weight loss? Has she had an ACTH lately? If so, could you post the results for us? Like Marianne said, I would want to know the remaining gland has started working again. Do stay in touch and let us know how things are going.

How is the training going with Neeka? Has she calmed down any and decided to cooperate with others? :p

And how are you doing, dear lady?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Awe the Angels of the form are always floating around. Bless your hearts!
Kira has never been the same since going off the Prednisone. But her problems at least to me, seem more related to arthritis. We have done blood tests that look ok considering. As with dogs there are so many things that are worrisome. If only they could talk! I just tried to change their dog food and suddenly four days later Kira has bloody diarrhea. We are hoping it was the food. She has a history of this diet change problem. She did respond quickly to treatment. I only saw blood once. She has a little bit of a balance problem in her rear end of late. I bumped her ever so slightly in the butt the other day and she yelped. And scary too she doesn't seem to want to go for walks. It doesn't seem like pain. I mean she's not limping she's just reluctant to go. Which is worrisome.

That could possible be explained because my dog training has taken a new coarse. NEEKA! Is a gaint challenge! I had to hire a personal dog trainer recommended by the vet. His methods work with Neeka but scare the hell out of Kira. Kira needs training too. I had to cut back on their walks almost compleatly due to improper pulling. I hate the pulling but love to have them walk out where I can see them. Anyway Kira SEEMS to get very upset when I give Neeka corrections when walking and I end up having to drag Kira along. But if I leave Neeka at home and take just Kira she acts like she doesn't want to go and I end up just taking her back home. Then again here at the desert we have no yard and they have to be tyed up outside, when leading Kira back in the house via her collar kira practically rips my arm off!! Not much lack of strength there. Neeka rips my arm off too! Damn it!
I cry a lot over Mira. It will be one year since I lost her on the 27th.

[Altira]

I'm worried about Kira. The bout with bloody diarrhea past in about 5 or 6 days. I was feeding her chicken, rice and cottage cheese for several days and giving her 1/2 metronidazole twice a day. The vet said if it didnt clear up we would rethink Probiotics and Panacur. Then bloodwork and ultrasound too depending on her response to symptomatic treatment. She called the next day and said that her fecal test came back ok.

She doesn't have diarrhea but there was some red slimy stuff on her poop today. I took a picture and sent it to the vet. It I haven't heard back from them yet. This stuff on her poop has now turned brown like her poop. Blood turns brown doesn't it? I mean if it was just something red she ate it would still be red right?

I took her for a mile walk today. Even let her walk out in front of me so I could watch her. She did ok. She walked pretty fast but something just doesn't seem right. I mentioned the Etogesic that I had been giving her daily for months. And the fact that we were concerned about giving her this drug. She said to stop giving it to her which I was sort of doing already. I haven't given her any in a week or more. Lately she seems like she is loosing her balance in her rear end and is slow to respond. She is drinking a lot of water lately and gets bright eyed when it's time to eat. But then she takes a bite and drops it on the ground. She is also getting that odor like she is going to have another round of diarrhea. I don't know what's going on. The vet seemed more concerned about her having that common parisite that starts with a G. Sorry I don't remember the name but they do vaccinate dogs for it sometimes. Some how I'm doubting that's it.

Maybe you remember a year ago they said Mira had Cushing's and they couldn't have been more wrong. She had cancer and they were doing testing for Cushing's. Kira's surgeon said I should trust them though. Kira's last blood test was last July. Not so long ago. The only thing bad then was just the LIP thing which was actually lower then it had been five months earlier post surgery. If it is something serious don't you think it would have showed some sign of it in July? I'd sure love to know what you all think.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

My little Trinket has Colitis and when it flares up there will be bright red blood in the feces...at it's worst, she expels mostly blood. :( We went through several meds, including antibiotics, but have found that Slippery Elm Bark (SEB) works best for her. Others here have tried it and found it works for them, and some have found an added benefit that it helped their babies eat better who had lost their appetite. Here is a link about SEB:

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?

Go to this link, click on health and scroll to slippery elm.

The parasite she is talking about might be Giardia.

Did the last ACTH in July indicate the remaining adrenal had kicked in and was working correctly now?

Kira is no longer on the pred, right?

Does she have any arthritic issues in her back that may be worsening causing the weakness in her legs?

Forgive me for asking....I am so tired this morning and my eyes are burning so I haven't looked back for this info. :o

The mile walk sounds good to me! ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Leslie,
You are such a sweetheart. Thank you! I did some Internet searching compairing what I saw with pictures. And it looks exactly like the Colitis you suggested. Of course I didn't understand a lot of it but I didn't see the word cancer in there either. I'm going to send you that picture and see what you think. Lovely picture that it is.

The vet called and he doesn't seem concerned at all really. He didn't put a name on it but he suggested maybe a gland problem or hemrods. He said her poop looked good and since so far it's just a one time deal he saw no reason to bring her in.

Sheesh... Kira is having a good time scaring me!

Yup that was it... Giardia... there was no mention of that this time.

I do beleive that there is no concern about adrenal thing not working. She had many post op tests. But you know with the increased water intake I wonder. She's been off Predisone for maybe six months now.

Now that I think about it, there are lots of questions I should have asked him.

"Does she have any arthritic issues in her back that may be worsening causing the weakness in her legs?"
It seems possible. I thought about taking her back to that rehab place and see what they say maybe.

"The mile walk sounds good to me!"
Yeah, really she has certainly done a lot worse. Maybe I just need to except that she getting old. That's sort of hard to do beings I had a husky live to 15 1/2. And Kira is not even 12 yet. But her days of surgery are over. I don't want to get into heavy testing and find something minor that should be fixed and feel bad not doing it. You know? It's not so much the cost as it is.... well definying God's wishes I suppose. I do want her to be comfortable however and that is a big concern. Is she in pain now or not? She doesn't like paying with Neeka much. But Neeka is always getting carried away.

Thank you so much for coming to my rescue Leslie. You helped me to not panic. Which is the same thing my vet suggested. Likely you hit the nail on the head. Maybe I should look into that stuff you give Trinket. Thank you ever so much!

[Skye]

there is a test that is used as a cancer screening test, BUT not sure what all cancers that covers. AND from what i have read it does ask if you notice them smelling different....however with it smelling like pooh i wouldnt think that would apply. If it is arthritis, have you checked into those adaquin injections? i have heard those are a miracle.
you were in dessert recently right? maybe she just got some sand in her digestive system and that caused abrasion to make colon ouchy.
and back end unbalanced...if she has had bad potty, that is quite alot of balancing on knees that are probably not as strong as they might get so maybe she is sore from trying to balance when having the lose stools. with water intake...she might have gotten alittle dehydrated from the dirreaha and that is what is making her want to drink more. I have also heard that Raw Honey is good for dogs........might try something like that. ((((((hugs))))))))

[Altira]

Hi Skye!

there is a test that is used as a cancer screening test, BUT not sure what all cancers that covers.

Oh dear if she has cancer I don't want to know. At least not at this point in time. If she does have it, it's only just started. And I wouldn't do anything about it except spoil her and keep her as comfortable as possible. And cry a lot.

AND from what i have read it does ask if you notice them smelling different....however with it smelling like pooh i wouldnt think that would apply.

It was a rear end smell. Could have been gas but it was constant. Thankfully it's gone now. I gave her a spoonful of canned food in with her regular food just cus I love her. It could have been that. I won't do it again anytime soon. I was really suprized to see it. This bloody slime. Her poop was fine for the five or so days in the desert. And for many days before that. She loves the canned food.

If it is arthritis, have you checked into those adaquin injections? i have heard those are a miracle.

Yeah you mentioned this to me before. I really should look into it beings I'm not giving her anything for that right now.

you were in dessert recently right? maybe she just got some sand in her digestive system and that caused abrasion to make colon ouchy.

Yeah that would do it but Kira doesn't like being outside much. I tie them out outside but Kira just stands there looking hopeful to come back in. There are cyotes all over out there and snakes. I never leave them unattended. They are in the house 98% of the time.

and back end unbalanced...if she has had bad potty, that is quite alot of balancing on knees that are probably not as strong as they might get so maybe she is sore from trying to balance when having the lose stools.

Kira may be able to walk but she uses her two fixed knees oddly when sitting, or doing whatever she is doing in this picture. Maybe it's rearend weakness? She had two TTA surgeries. http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3311

with water intake...she might have gotten alittle dehydrated from the dirreaha and that is what is making her want to drink more. I have also heard that Raw Honey is good for dogs........might try something like that.

It could have been that. She has slowed down. She was peeing huge puddles which remeinded me of Cushing's.

((((((hugs))))))))

Neeka and Kira at the desert house.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=3312

Prayers for Shysie!

[Altira]

Recent Pictures

August 2011
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=3323

Kira all wet watching passing dog August 2011
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=3320

Kira not so happy November 2011
she weights the same as above (she's all fur!)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=3322

Neeka (Mira's Niece) learning how to wait calm in the car.
November 2011
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=284&pictureid=3321

[Altira]

Prednisone:
A very important question…..

This may be a stupid idea, it may not work and you may think I am crazy even to consider such a thing. But I have to ask.

If you have followed Kira’s thread then you know that the surgery she had a year ago did cure Cushing’s. But at what cost? I can't stop thinking about how she was before and the dramatic change in her that started the minute we took her off prednisone. It was as if a light was switched off, never to be seen again.

My aunt had terrible skin problems that pledged her all her life. She was always miserable and itchy. She started taking a baby-sized amounts of prednisone like when she was 40 and her whole world changed. For the next twenty years she lived a happy normal life. Then when she was about sixty something she died because of the prednisone. It was an extremely sad one but not a painful one. And my mom never blamed her for what she did. She fully understood and agreed.

So what if I did the same thing for Kira. What if I were to give her one very happy year as aposed to two unhappy ones?

I remember Mira when she got ill. Suddenly she cannot walk. She is falling down. Cannot make it up curbs. She stood at her food bowl on three legs because it hurt so much to stand. Then they put her on prednisone and instantly all that went away. We went on many walks. She never fell down again. She stood strong on all fours to eat. She even did her frantic patty cake just days before we lost her. In fact, now that I think about it, it could have been the very reason why she never looked ready to go. The cancer killed Mira not the prednisone.

As far as I know Kira has no other illness holding her back. Her blood tests are nearly normal. But she has this terrible lameness and seems horribly depressed all the time. She has been like this since the day she was taken off prednisone. She is no better now, she is no worse. And it is doing a great job of depressing me too. She doesn't want to play with Neeka at all. I constantly have to chase Neeka away from her. Neeka wants her to play but Kira just cries like ... Go away, I hurt, just leave me alone. Kira never even has the strength to fight her off. She just runs to me like.. mom help, I can't do this. This happens all day long, everyday. For what is close becoming a year. It's not fair to Kira, or Neeka. If there were no way out, we'd just have to live with it. But maybe there is a way out.

So what if we did put Kira back on prednisone? What if it did bring her back? God what wouldn't give to see the light in her eyes again. So what is better, to have a happy Kira for a year or an unhappy Kira in pain all the time for two years? The pain pills she was taking, made no difference at all. We did that for six months. I stopped giving them to her a month ago. I have seen no change at all. It's the same thing. No better no worse.

I have not mentioned this to the vet. Like I say, I don't know for certain if it would even work. I came here first because I believe all of you know well about prednisone and I value your opinions.

I do realize that this will bring on the symptoms of Cushing’s again. But you know, we lived with that most of her life and it was never a problem. The eating and drinking and pottying enormous amounts. Not until she was 10. Not until cancer, a tumor, and a damaged liver showed up. Well now that threat of cancer is gone and her liver has had time to heal and her heart time to rest.

Am I on track here? Is this possible? It certainly made a difference in Mira's last days. Although it was hard to see that at the time. It made my aunts life livable for countless years.

Please anyone. Even if you don't know for certain. Even if it’s just to my way of thinking. Please tell me what you think...

[Altira]

below is my mothers response:

By all means try it. You will know soon whether or not it is helping. If it isn't then take her off. I am most anxious to see how it works.

Velma died at 56 but she did have 15 happy years. I am glad she took it. Other wise it was hell for her taking baths three and four times a day to try to keep from itching all over. I don't know how she kept her sanity without it.

[StarDeb55]

Janis, I'm sorry that Kira is still so unwell. Unfortunately, none of us are vets as you know, so we really can't suggest trying any type of treatment. You need to run this by Kira's vet team. The one thing I will tell you is that pred, used in the right circumstances, is a very useful drug. The big warning is that it is an extremely powerful drug. It will act just exactly like cortisol in the system, & will probably leave Kira open to a whole bunch of new issues. You, also, can't just stop or start pred at will which I think you already know. It sounds like Kira is hurting quite badly, & needs some relief either through some type of anti-inflammatory, along with pain meds. Have you tried adequan shots?

Debbie

[Altira]

Debbie thank you for responding... She was taking etogesic for many months. I stopped giving it to her about a month ago. And I saw no change at all. I can't even say that it is a arthritis for sure. It's very hard for her to get up and she walks very stiffy. Her back legs often slide out from under her on slick floors. But she doesn't limp at all. The muclse wasting still seems present in her rear legs. She cries sometimes when I try to help her up. She seems to have no energy. She has this "just leave me alone" issue with Neeka. Life just doesn't seem very happy.

What issues are you concerned about?

[StarDeb55]

The biggest worry is that pred suppresses the immune system & may possibly leave Kira open to infections of various kinds. I would talk to the vet about both pain meds & an anti-inflammatory before I tried the pred, IMO. When it comes to the lack of interaction with your little one, this may simply be a case of age. I have an 11 yr. old Lhasa, & when I brought Obi home almost a year ago. Chewy didn't want anything to do with him as Obi is only 2 & is way too boisterous for Chewy's tastes. As time has worn on, Chewy will tolerate Obi, now, & play with him occassionally. I'm not sure that Kira not wanting to play is a real worry. It may simply be a case of Kira being a senior lady who doesn't want to be "bugged" by the teenager.

Debbie

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

I take it Kira has had a senior panel recently since you say her blood work is normal. My thought was her thyroid...if those levels might be a bit too low.

How is her appetite? Has it decreased any? Has she lost any weight?

Has she had any xrays on her spine or hips or knees recently? Does she sometimes pant more than usual for no cause that you can see? That is one sign of pain, is why I ask.

As you can tell, I haven't read back through her thread...I'm lazy tonite, again. :p

My experience with pred and dogs is limited. We used it with Ruby the last months of her life off and on; sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't. I used it very, very infrequently with Crys. It was an absolute last resort at as small a dose as would help, and for as short a time as possible.

Prednisone is a miracle drug...but it is also a nightmare for the body over time. My dad had multiple reasons to need it and he took it for decades. He worked it down to the minimum dose he could take and it still provide some benefit - he was a dentist and refused to take the dose prescribed that would have brought him the greatest relief because he knew what it would do to him. In spite of his extreme caution, in his last years the toll the took on his system became obvious and it was a hindrance to the medical attention required when he needed it most. But, like your aunt, it allowed him to continue practicing, playing golf, fishing, driving and enjoying his life for a long time. So, from the perspective of watching my dad, Pred is a double-edged sword to me.

I would want to talk to my vet about things, rule out any physiological reasons for her behavior, and try everything else I could before I resorted to pred. But that's just me. ;)

And Debbie has a good point about the age difference. When Crys came along, she was a baby with three old ladies...and they were NOT happy about it AT all. Bless her heart, Crys was so full of life and energy, she couldn't restrain herself or resist temptation very often. Ruby tore her up several times, requiring vet visits. Saskia watched a video of them doing what I thought was playing but was actually Crys trying to play, the others being aggressive in posture and action, and her reacting with fear. :rolleyes::o Dumb mama...

I don't know how they would have worked things out in time as we weren't given that opportunity, but I would like to think there would have come a time when they would be a cohesive pack.

So that's my 2 cents worth. I have no doubt you will do the best for Kira; you always have. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Hi Janis,

I take it Kira has had a senior panel recently since you say her blood work is normal.

THE MOST RECENT COMPLETE BLOOD TEST
JULY
LIPASE WAS 1477
FEB
LIPASE WAS 2017

NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS BUT EVERYTHING ELSE WAS NORMAL BOTH TIMES. A GAINT INPROVEMENT FROM BEFORE SURGERY.


My thought was her thyroid...if those levels might be a bit too low.

I ASKED ABOUT THAT AND HE SIAD THAT HAD BEEN CHECKED A COUPLE TIMES AND WAS FINE.

How is her appetite? Has it decreased any?

WELL HER INTEREST IN FOOD DROPPED A LOT AFTER SURGERY. WITH CUSHINGS CURED. SHE EATS JUST FINE, JUST WITH LESS GUSTO.


Has she lost any weight?

YES! SHE HAS BEEN LOOSING WEIGHT STEADILY, BEING 68 BEFORE SURGERY AND 53 NOW. IT WILL BE A YEAR SINCE SURGERY ON THE 28TH. SHE IS UNDER WEIGHT NOW BUT THE VET DOESN'T SEEM CONCERNED. I CERTAINLY AM HOWEVER.

Has she had any xrays on her spine or hips or knees recently?

KNEES AND CHEST RESENTLY.

SHE WAS EXAMAND BY A THEROPIST:
AMBULATORY W MILD PARAPARESIS
NO LAMENESS
PAIN W SIMULTANEOUS RIGHT SHOULDER FLECTION AND ELBOW
SLIGHTLY DECREASED CP HYPEREXTENSION OF THE DIGITS
MILD MODERATE MUSCLE ATROPHY BOTH REAR LIMBS
DISCOMFORT ON FULL EXTENSION BOTH HIPS
LS AND TAIL PAIN

ALL OF WHICH IS GREEK TO ME!


Does she sometimes pant more than usual for no cause that you can see?
SHE PANTS A LOT. I HAVE TOLD THE VET THIS MANY TIMES.

That is one sign of pain, is why I ask.

I THOUGHT SO TOO.

As you can tell, I haven't read back through her thread...I'm lazy tonite, again. :p

NOT A PROBLEM

My experience with pred and dogs is limited. We used it with Ruby the last months of her life off and on; sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't. I used it very, very infrequently with Crys. It was an absolute last resort at as small a dose as would help, and for as short a time as possible.

Prednisone is a miracle drug...but it is also a nightmare for the body over time. My dad had multiple reasons to need it and he took it for decades. He worked it down to the minimum dose he could take and it still provide some benefit - he was a dentist and refused to take the dose prescribed that would have brought him the greatest relief because he knew what it would do to him. In spite of his extreme caution, in his last years the toll the took on his system became obvious and it was a hindrance to the medical attention required when he needed it most. But, like your aunt, it allowed him to continue practicing, playing golf, fishing, driving and enjoying his life for a long time. So, from the perspective of watching my dad, Pred is a double-edged sword to me.

I would want to talk to my vet about things, rule out any physiological reasons for her behavior, and try everything else I could before I resorted to pred. But that's just me. ;)

And Debbie has a good point about the age difference. When Crys came along, she was a baby with three old ladies...and they were NOT happy about it AT all. Bless her heart, Crys was so full of life and energy, she couldn't restrain herself or resist temptation very often. Ruby tore her up several times, requiring vet visits. Saskia watched a video of them doing what I thought was playing but was actually Crys trying to play, the others being aggressive in posture and action, and her reacting with fear. :rolleyes::o Dumb mama...

I don't know how they would have worked things out in time as we weren't given that opportunity, but I would like to think there would have come a time when they would be a cohesive pack.

So that's my 2 cents worth. I have no doubt you will do the best for Kira; you always have. :)

THE PROBLEM IS I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL TO DO BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS FOR SURE. It COULD VERY WELL BE NEEKA AS ANYTHING ELSE. KIRA DOES NOTHING TO DEFEND HERSELF AND NEEKA TAKES ADVANTAGE. SOMETIMES WE HAVE DOG FIGHTS BUT IT'S ALL TALK AND NORMALLY OVER A BONE.

ODDLY ENOUGH KIRA DID JUMP UP LAST NIGHT AND STARTED PLAYFULLY CHASING AFTER NEEKA. I LOVED THAT. BUT NEEKA IN NO TIME WENT MEGA HYPER AND I HAD TO SAVE KIRA. THAT HAPPENED A LOT WITH MIRA TOO. KIRA AND MIRA USED TO RUN TOWARD EACH OTHER THEN JUMP UP AND BANG THEIR CHESTS TOGETHER. WAS SO CUTE. I'LL POST SOME PICTURES OF KIRA SO YOU CAN GET A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

See above in CAPS

[Skye]

wanted to post this to you here in case we miss place email
have you had her checked for addisions?
okay here is what i would do.
do a complete CBC
complete Biochemical panal
complete urinalysis by cysto
have them also do a hormone panel of 6 hormones to the adrenal glands, see where they are.
ALL LAB to be done OUT OF HOUSE, meaning NOT at your vets
and ask for a double cavity ultrasound

Then we will see where we need to go from there.
This will give us a pretty detailed look at her and we will know exactly what to request from there.

when you go in, take a fresh pooh sample,
and when you go dont let her eat prior to her appointment...so do a morning appointment no eating after 10

ask about adequan injections to help with her joints

we will find it............you got all the angels on the case..........me tossing my two cents in too. But if you can get all that done, will give awesome starting point.
To me....those liver enzymes seem elevated (?)

[Altira]

Well first off I don't trust vets... doing anything we all can consider here can't hurt!

Kira was said to have a some what damaged liver at the time of her ultrasound pre surgery. I asked the surgeon about it and he said (I think) that if it was cused from the Cushings then it should get better. After the surgery he confirmed that the damage was from Cushings. So it seems reasonable that the TWO blood tests post surgery would show a decease. As it does. And that is if the lipase is an indication of liver damage. Is it?

She was also said to have a slightly enlarged heart.

None of the four doctors on Kira's case found either of these things of much concern. And I asked about them OFTEN.

(deleted this part those post test results were not noted here very well)

Ever so greatful to all ye angels! I'm real serious about this PRED thing. And I'm thinking another ultrasound now post surgery might be if nothing more, a relief to find nothing has changed or tell is what we maybe facing now. And considering what a painless and gentle thing this is makes it all the more a good thing. Despite the cost. Yikes!

Mira had three of them in the coarse of her last 22 days. They only charged me for two. But it really told us where we stood. The last one they said her liver had begun bleeding. The worst news possible. But I am a firm believer in the capabilities of the US.

[Altira]

One month after surgery:
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3339
Three months
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3338http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3341
Four months
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3337
Six months
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3336
What's wrong Kira?
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3334
Eleven months after surgery: (November 2011)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=274&pictureid=3340

She has lost another 1/2 pound since the last picture.

Last month she also:
had bloody diahrea from a diet change (she responded very well to metronidozale)
had blood on well formed poop twice

The vet thinks she's fine

had a stool sample sent out and tested

[Altira]

This is from my "doctor" brother (via his wife) concerning the prednisone:

"Steve said it couldn't hurt to try, and if it didn't make a difference or she's worse then you could always quit it. *If she was better, continue it."

Kira had an accident tonight. Incontenance. Totally soaked herself! She drank tons of water today and peeing huge puddles. She's been doing the later from maybe two weeks. I guess we better check for blatter infection. I wonder if the Cushings was not cured? It's so frustrating not knowing for sure about anything.

Her fur after the second knee reconstruction did not grow back. Eight months later the skin is still bare. Then three month after the Cushings surgery it's completily grown in and taken on a weird texture. So something was definitely triggered by the surgery. It's not like there was no change. Her water intake did drop but it's up again now. And if it is an infection, why is she still having them?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

I would sure have her checked for a UTI. They can happen in any dog, any time, whether Cushing's is present or not. And that could easily be the reason she had an accident and is drinking more right now.

Your brother (via wife :p) is right - the pred can be easily stopped unless it has been used for a while; then a tapering off is required. Just remember you can expect the drinking, incontinence, and appetite to increase on pred so don't panic and think the Cushing's is back. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Janis, I have to be honest with you -- if Kira is drinking tons of water and peeing huge puddles, prednisone is the last thing that I would give her without first consulting a vet. There is every reason to think that the pred will only worsen those problems. Plus, steroid dosing cannot just be a random guess on your part as far as amount or duration, or you run the risk of shutting down the cortisol production from her remaining adrenal gland and creating even a worse problem.

I agree with Leslie that I'd first rule out a UTI by asking the vet to analyze a urine sample. At that time, you can also discuss your other worries about her appearance and behavior. Have you been back to see the specialist recently, and does your specialist know about all the issues that you've felt concerned about? I hate to say it, but you are right that it is not impossible for Kira to have now developed the pituitary form of Cushing's, or I guess even to have developed a tumor on her remaining adrenal gland. Although the weight loss does not "fit," her symptoms of panting, excessive thirst/urination, hind-end muscle wasting, etc. do all fit the Cushing's profile. On the other hand, when is the last time that Kira's natural cortisol production has been checked? It might be the case that she actually IS in need of some supplemental pred once again, but you won't know this without checking her native cortisol level. I'd be curious to know whether your specialist would entertain the possibility of Cushing's (or some other endocrine/hormonal imbalance) rearing its ugly head once again...:(

Marianne

[Cyn719]

Janis - thinking of you and Kira -- hope they can find out what is wrong with Kira. She has all the symptoms that penny had for her cushings - right now she is stable - she went from 86 lbs to 77 lbs over the last year - her back end is an issue - muscle wasting and lots of arthritis from operations - on Dasaquin - Adequin shots and on and off Rimadyl - not happy with that but sometimes its the only way she can walk - love hugs and lots of prayers xo

[Buffaloe]

Hi Janis,

I am very sorry to hear that Kira is not feeling all that great. I don't think you should give her any prednisone without talking it over with the vet first. I believe the chances of her having developed the pituitary form of cushing's are small. I think the chances of her remaining adrenal gland not having kicked in and doing its job is also small.

I think there is a larger likelihood that Kira has developed a tumor in her remaining adrenal gland. Unfortunately, this is not real uncommon. The way to find out is to have another ultrasound. It seems that many gp vets are not real well versed in this area, which is understandable.

It may very well be that something entirely removed from an adrenal tumor is causing Kira to feel unwell. But, you might want to consider an ultrasound.

Ken

[Skye]

True you could give it and see....but the issues currently happening may still persist. I am concerned with the rare chance cushings being involved pituitary wise,
also, there were some issues with liver and enlarged heart which could be playing a factor in some of this.........
and....with her knees, and stiffness etc. Low impact if any, exercise, so careful on how far your walking and what she is walking on. Opt for grass or sand to help with impact, as this could flare up more discomfort than help.
so my concerns are 1. cushings on pituary gland though not likely since that is rare
2. liver being enlarged (i believe that is correct right?) and enzymes are high
3. enlarged heart (might do echo to have checked)
4. more water exercise than impact walks

i would ask doctor if you could have CT Scan (i think this would show all her organs and heart and perhaps condition of knees and spine? or maybe MRI?)
do another CBC, biochemical, cysto
get results from all of that, and go from there. I dont know if I am on right track or not here angels, feed back?

[Altira]

THANK YOU to each of you for responding! Please rest easy I would never give her PRED without consulting her vet first. Right now I'm just collecting everyone's thoughts on the idea. I get a great deal of concern here on the form and I'm sure that's a good thing. There is SO MUCH to concider and my pea brain tends to forget some of those. Like the fact that she started loosing weight too right after surgery and still is. Thank you Marianne for catching that one. It's another scary factor in all this. My confusion is where to start! Well other then the UTI. That is priority as soon as we get home. We are in the desert right now. I hope to go home tomorrow. I did bring Kira's Prion with me. We haven't had another soaking (or dripping) since yesterday evening. We have had big puddles though.

QUESTIONS:
1) I'm wondering if I should have a cortisol check at the same time we do a UTI test?
2) I read that an ultra sound and a CT Scan are the same thing only the CT is better. From experiance: I think the US is fantastic and so very gentle for the dog and the MRI i find to be worthless. But we have never done a CT. What are your thoughts on that? Do they have to put the dog out? I'm so wanting not to do that with Kira. But if it will TRUELY give us better answers then I would do it.
3) How do they find patuitary Cushings?

Thank you Stormee for all the behind the scenes help and compasion you give me and Kira. She working hard for her wings I got to tell!

[StarDeb55]

Janis, my answers are in blue.


1) I'm wondering if I should have a cortisol check at the same time we do a UTI test?
It would probably be a good idea to make sure this isn't a low cortisol issue & that the remaining adrenal gland is doing its job.


2) I read that an ultra sound and a CT Scan are the same thing only the CT is better. From experiance: I think the US is fantastic and so very gentle for the dog and the MRI i find to be worthless. But we have never done a CT. What are your thoughts on that? Do they have to put the dog out? I'm so wanting not to do that with Kira. But if it will TRUELY give us better answers then I would do it.
No, they are not the same. They are done by 2 different pieces of equipment. A CT scanner (computerized tomography) will require sedation. There are also times, depending on what they're looking for, that xray dye will have to be given by IV.


3) How do they find patuitary Cushings?
Same way they diagnose adrenal Cushing's, a low dose dex test, ACTH, & abdominal ultrasound. With pit Cushing's, if no abnormalities are seen on the ultrasound, it is assumed that the problem is pituitary since 85% of dogs have this form. Now, if you want to make absolutely sure there is a lesion on the pit gland, this will require either a CT or MRI of the brain, both of which require anesthesia.

Debbie

[Altira]

Thank you Debbie for your quick response. I'll give the others a chance to respond before I ask more.


But in the mean time. This is the exact dates of her most recent tests that found nothing sagnificant.

CBC
2/23/11 post surgery
7/22/11

Cortisol
1/26/22 post surgery

Urine
3/10/11

Exam that did find problems with aches and pains

Rehab Specialist
3/7/11

[StarDeb55]

Since Kira hasn't been stimmed in almost a year, if she were my dog, I would be requesting an ACTH.

Debbie

[Buffaloe]

Janice,

An high quality abdominal ultrasound is all you need to check Kira's remaining adrenal gland. Shiloh had 3-4 of them and she always came out as happy as a lark.

Maybe Kira's problems are as simple as her having a UTI. I hope Kira is feeling alot better soon.

Ken

[Skye]

okay how about this to get started..........(you know i am VERY step by step)
1. call vet schedule appointment because you have concerns and this is what you want done.
1st appt.
*CBC, *urnine *biochemical, *UPC, double cavity ultrasound (this will show her heart which might be good since that is an issue as well)
this appointment will lay out good foundation as to what direction to take next.
it has almost been a year since blood and such check....so this might be good to start here.
what does everyone think? giving a starting point. Then we can help plan for step B

[Altira]

okay how about this to get started..........(you know i am VERY step by step)
1. call vet schedule appointment because you have concerns and this is what you want done.
IM STUCK RIGHT AT THE START. WHAT ARE MY CONCERNS?
WATER INTAKE
PEEING BIG PUDDLES
POSSIBLE BLATTER INFECTION
THINGS POINTING TO CUSHINGS
MUSCLE WASTING
STIFFNESS
WEIGHT LOSS (told him this many times)
SLIMY BLOOD ON POOP TWICE LAST MONTH
(what am I forgetting)

1st appt.
*CBC, *urnine *biochemical, *UPC, double cavity ultrasound (this will show her heart which might be good since that is an issue as well)
this appointment will lay out good foundation as to what direction to take next.
I DON'T KNOW WHY BUT IM STILL CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT A BIOCHEMICAL THING IS. UPC... DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS EITHER. THE REGULAR VET CAN'T DO A GOOD ULTRASOUND ID GO TO ACC FOR THAT.
it has almost been a year since blood and such check....so this might be good to start here.
BUT WE DID A FULL BLOOD PANEL FOUR MONTHS AGO. WE DID THAT TWO TIMES THIS YEAR.
what does everyone think? giving a starting point. Then we can help plan for step B
Sorry about the caps. My iPhone is limited
I really do think the vet is leading me to another ultrasound anyway. It was mentioned at our last visit. I really would like to know too. It has been over a year now. If nothing else I would like to know the current state of her heart and liver.

When she had he second knee done last year they shaved all of one side of her rear end. It was so bony! Huskies have such thick fur especially on their rear ends, it was impossible to see it. But now I know it's there and it doesn't feel any better at all. Just bones. That worries me a lot. The exam she got from that (last March) was not real good either. Bad things were diagnost and it was recommended I go to an even higher up specialist about it. I didn't do it. She mentioned surgery. Kira just had two very major surgeries last year. I couldn't face that. But maybe I should go anyway and see what they say now.

[Altira]

I'm really at a loss. Other then the UTI .... Which I will do pronto

I'm wondering .... Should I do
1) all the chemical tests again first knowing that all the ones this year did not show any major concerns acording to my vet...
2) or go back to the place that said she does have:
Endocrine neuropathy/myopathy
Lumbar myelopathy (that word scares me)
Right biceps tenosynovitis
3) or go straight for a ultrasound
4) or take an aspirin and stop worrying... Just kidding ... That's not going to happen

I think I will not do anything that requires putting her out until I'm certain she can handle it ok. Even then .... Well hell "2)" is probably going to require X-rays.

[Altira]

(sorry I tried to format this side by side to be easier to read but it just all gets shoved together)

Kira- compare 3 most recent CBC's

Oct 2010 pre-surgery

alk 354 10-150
alt 117 5-107
lip 1474 100-750
chol 378 112-328
chlo 117 105-116
mcv 58 60-77
eosin 5 2-10
ab eosin 470 100-1260


Feb 2011 post-surgery

alk 192 10-150
alt 101 5-107
lip 2017 100-750
chol 203 112-328
chlo 114 105-116
mcv 58 60-77
eosin 8 2-10
ab eosin 728 100-1260


July 2011 post-surgery

alk 72 10-150
alt 45 5-107
lip 1477 100-750
chol 176 112-328
chlo 114 105-116
mcv 58 60-77
eosin 13 2-10 ***
ab eosin 1378 100-1260 ***

***why is this up?


SPEC cPL and T4 were normal

[labblab]

Janis, can you clarify which vet/s Kira has been seeing? If I am remembering correctly, the same surgeon performed her adrenalectomy as had done her earlier orthopedic surgery? But in advance of the surgery, I think you had gone to an internal medicine specialist, as well? Have you been back to see either the surgeon or the specialist since last winter, or has Kira just been going back to the GP vet?

My own opinion is that if you have not been back to see the internal medicine specialist, I would start there (or if you did not like that specialist, I would find another one with whom to consult). Before making your mind up in advance re: which testing is appropriate, I would talk to an expert and listen to their suggestions. Personally, I do think that an ultrasound and related bloodwork (including cortisol level) would be helpful. But before commiting to any new testing, I think you'd have a lot to gain by presenting Kira's current condition to a specialist who is knowledgeable about endocrinological problems.

I absolutely think that we are an experienced and knowledgeable group here ;), but Kira is a complicated girl. All we can do is offer out guesses that, at this point, might lead you in the direction of testing that is either duplicative or unnecessary. I'd feel a lot better about Kira's situation if you'd schedule a visit for her with a specialist who can actually look her over and plug in the puzzle pieces from first-hand observation. And I'd start first with an IMS rather than a neurologist or orthopedist.

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Hi Janis.

This is going to be one of my shortest posts ever. I agree 100% with Marianne's thoughts.

[Altira]

Janis, can you clarify which vet/s Kira has been seeing? If I am remembering correctly, the same surgeon performed her adrenalectomy as had done her earlier orthopedic surgery?
CORRECT, THAT WAS DR SEBESTYEN-SURGEON @ VSS
OTHERS ARE:
DR DIEHL-ULTRA SOUND SPECIALIST @ ACC
DR CHUNG-CUSHINGS SPECIALIST @ ACC
DR RINGWALD-REHAB SPECIALIST @ VET SPECIALTY HOSPITOL

ACC IS AN INTERNAL MEDICINE CENTER

MY BROTHER THE HUMAN DOCTOR IS AN INTERNAL MEDICINE SPECALIST


But in advance of the surgery, I think you had gone to an internal medicine specialist, as well? Have you been back to see either the surgeon or the specialist since last winter, or has Kira just been going back to the GP vet?

BEEN BACK TO SEE DR SEBESTYEN THREE TIMES THIS YEAR. HE HAS SEEN ALL THE TESTS DONE BY GP VET - DR WATSON. I HAVE ALSO EMAILED DR SEBESTYEN. HE ALSO SAID I SHOULD TRUST DR WATSON DISPITE HIS MISTAKE CONCERNING MY MIRA HAVING CUSHINGS. I DON'T KNOW IF HE SAW THE MOST RECENT CBC. BUT I DO KNOW HE SAW NOTHING OF CONCERN UP UNTIL THEN. I WAS VERY PLEASED TO TELL HIM THAT THE REHAB DR SAID HER KNEES ARE IN GREAT SHAPE.

My own opinion is that if you have not been back to see the internal medicine specialist, I would start there (or if you did not like that specialist, I would find another one with whom to consult). Before making your mind up in advance re: which testing is appropriate, I would talk to an expert and listen to their suggestions. Personally, I do think that an ultrasound and related bloodwork (including cortisol level) would be helpful. But before commiting to any new testing, I think you'd have a lot to gain by presenting Kira's current condition to a specialist who is knowledgeable about endocrinological problems.

ENDOCRINOLOGICAL? WHAT MIGHT BE THEIR TITLE? ME AND DOCTOR CHUNG DIDN'T GET ALONG VERY WELL.

I absolutely think that we are an experienced and knowledgeable group here ;), but Kira is a complicated girl. All we can do is offer out guesses that, at this point, might lead you in the direction of testing that is either duplicative or unnecessary. I'd feel a lot better about Kira's situation if you'd schedule a visit for her with a specialist who can actually look her over and plug in the puzzle pieces from first-hand observation. And I'd start first with an IMS rather than a neurologist or orthopedist.

NEUROLOGIST YES THATS WHERE THEY WANTED ME TO GO. THE ONE I TURNED DOWN. YES YES I WANT WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING BUT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A IMS IS. WHERE DO I, WHAT DO I LOOK UNDER FOR THIS? JUST VETS AND IMS? MAYBE I'LL LOOK ONE UP AND SHOW YOU FIRST.

Marianne

And you certainly are all very knowledgable poeple here. You may not have degrees but you study so many people's cases and truly care. I'd follow your lead in a heart bet Marianne. And seriously consider anything any of the Cushangels have to add. Thank you so much.

Lulusmom: So glad to hear that!

[Altira]

IMS. INTERNAL MEDICIAN SPECIALIST. DUH! Sorry.

[labblab]

Janis, I apologize for talking in "code" :o. But IMS just stands for internal medicine specialist, and endocrinology is the area of medicine that includes disorders like Cushing's and diabetes. I would bet that Dr. Chung is the kind of "IMS" that I am talking about. But that's what I was afraid of -- I thought I remembered that you didn't hit it off very well with her before, so I understand why you're not really wanting to go back. If ACC is a big clinic, there might be another IMS there who you could switch to. But I don't know whether that would feel awkard to you.

By any chance, are you in the L.A. area? If so, I'll bet Glynda may have some other referral suggestions for you. She is so knowledgeable about vets and services in her area. Also, I do not mean to be critical of Dr. Watson or the abilities of anybody's GP vet. But it just sounds as though you have had genuine concerns about Kira for some time now, and nobody has really taken your worries too seriously. That's why I'm thinking that maybe a new set of eyes and some fresh input may be helpful.

As I say, depending on where you live, Glynda may be able to help. Or perhaps Dr. Sebestyen could give you another suggestion if you explain to him that you did not feel comfortable with Dr. Chung. Also, here's a link to a website that lists internal medicine specialists throughout the U.S.:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182

Marianne

[Altira]

Marianne:

I gotcha now. (I know at one time I better understood it all but my memory is poor, I forget fast.) And I'm on it post haste too.

We are heading home today I hope.

One last quick question. If I'm looking for specialist and new regular vet, how urgent is the UTI possibility? I could get her in tomorrow with Watson. Or wait until earily next week to see new vet.

You may be interested to know I just printed out this inter thread. I was so upset over Mira the first time around I'm sure I missed important things. I'm going to read, study and make notes. That gives you a good idea as to how much I value you all. Thank you ever so much!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Janis,

I would get the UTI checked out asap. The sooner it is caught, the easier it is to get rid of. ;);)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Altira]

Ok thanks I will call Watson right now!

[lulusmom]

Hi Janis,

As I recall, you live in Orange County and I think I already mentioned that my dogs treat with Dr. Michael Moore at VCA All Care Referral Center in Fountain Valley. Dr. Moore is the Director of Internal Medicine there and he is one guy who truly appreciates pet owners who take an active participation in their dogs care. I've also seen Dr. Alyssa Mourning who is my second choice and she also appreciates pet owners who get involved. If one time I can't see Dr. Moore, I see Dr. Mourning.

The beauty of this facility, other than having a great internal medicine staff with no referral required, is that they are a regular vet's office as well as a specialty facility with gp vets on staff. They are also open 24/7 and I can take my dogs in to see Dr. Moore on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Aside from no eye specialist, I think they have most specialties covered. That reminds me, VCA has board certified surgeons who do adrenalectomies so there is no doubt in my mind that the internal medicine specialists and surgeons in the same hospital communicate on every level. I live in Ontario so it's a long drive for me but it's worth the peace of mind.

If you don't mind driving a bit either, there is also Dr. David Bruyette in West Los Angeles. He is the Medical Director of VCA West Los Angeles and is a well published and reknown endocrine specialist. In the event you are interested in having Kira seen by either of these two facilities, I have provided links to their contact info below:

http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/all-care
http://www.vcahospitals.com/west-los-angeles

In my opinion, if you can get in to see an IMS in the next day or two, I would wait and let the IMS decide which tests to do based on Kira's present symptoms, including the urinalysis. If you've already made an appointment with our gp vet to do a urinalysis, make sure they do a culture.

Glynda

[Altira]

Glynda thank you! Gee how lucky can i get. .. Yes, I live in the city of Orange. The map says I'm about 15 miles from VCA. You mentioned this to me before. I have always just used vets within panic distance from home. Ive always pictured something dreadfull happening and needing my vet stat. You know the less then five minutes to get to kind.

But you got it! I will go there. Getting this figured out is so important. I will take all my stacks of records and my mile long list of worries, and my sweetheart kira... present them to Mike Moore and say please help us! And I will trust his judgement. Sounds wonderful. And open 24/7 too. What more could you ask for.

I did already make an apointment with Watson for in the morning. but I'll tell them I desided to go to a specialist instead. It's the truth and if they consider all the stuff I've been telling them of late the whole idea makes since. I would much perfur to start off fresh with this UTI concern even if it means a couple days from now. The girl at Watsons office asked me right off if Kira had piddled in her sleep. That sort of tells me they are thinking incontinence. Which it could be. There are so many things. Anyway, I'm currently sitting in a casino parking lot with my doggies, as we make our customary stop on our way home from the desert house. I may try to make an online appointment with Moore. Or call just about anytime.

On another subject concerning my one year old Neeka. The little darling has been "hell on wheels" for the last 24 hours. Last night she totaly trashed the inside of my car. Stuff ripped up from one end to the other. Witch included a big box of Kleenex. She must have eaten all the tissues! But that's not the scary insident we had. Today while packing to come home she got into Buds blood pressure pills! She had the scattered all over the kitchen Yfloor. Talk about panic. The nearest vet is an hour away too! I scooped them up and ran to my husband frantic to know what was missing. He had just dumped them into a small container to bring along. He wasn't certain how many he brought. He has many differant ones. We finally deturmand that she only ate one. I ran and called the pharmacy and asked them about it. They said it would, if anything just make her a little dizzy. It's been a good four hours now and all she's been is a continuation of hell on wheels. So I guess she'll be alright. She had to jump up on the counter and get those. Talk about panic.

[Altira]

Kira has an appointment with Mike Moore at 2:15 today. I've been up all night writing notes and getting records together. I better get some sleep. I wish I was better prepared but..... Well I hope I remember to record it!! Wish us luck.

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm glad you got in today! Hoping you get some answers and a plan of action going if needed, sweetie. Let us know what you learn. I am sure you will do just fine in the appt! ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

Hi Janis,

I'm so glad you got in to see Dr. Moore so quickly. I think you are probably better prepared than you think. Even if you're not, Dr. Moore will drag the information out of you. :D I hope you get some rest, and I know it's easier said than done, but try to remain relaxed so the old brain is firing on all cylinders. It's absolutely normal to be anxious when seeing a new vet because they are going in blind and you want to make sure they have all the pieces of the puzzle, not just from your prior vet(s) but more importantly from you because nobody knows Kira like mom. :D

Plan on being there a while so take a book or enjoy the Disney and Pixar animated movies that are usually playing all day in the waiting rooms. I love those movies. :D

We'll all be waiting anxiously for your update.

Glynda

[Altira]

Oops dup post

[Altira]

He's getting tons of phone calls. I'm so nervious. I must record this because I won't remember what he says. I'm so bad at this.

Kira peed huge puddle outside their front door! I left in such a hurry. Didn't know where I was going for sure. I forgot to potty her first. She's dirty from the desert too.

[Altira]

Didn't get to see dr Moore. But they are going to do all tests today including ultrasound. I will wait in parking lot for her.

[Cyn719]

Waiting to hear how things go -- love prayers and lots of hugssss to you xoxo