Question about rear-end weakness

[PerdyGirly]

I am new here and new to dealing with the issues surrounding a Cushings diagnosis. With the help of my vet and a lot of on-line research I seem to be making progress. My main source of frustration at this time is the rear-end weakness that my dog is experiencing. She still likes to take walks outdoors and chase kibble thrown down the hall, however, her rear-end "wobbles" and she has trouble keeping her back end standing for a while.

Anyway...are there things I can try to help her with this problem? Accupuncture, VOM, and cold laser therapy, are three things I have heard of, but do not know if they would be appropriate in her case. I was wanting some comments from people who live with this disease on a day-to-day basis before discussing with my vet.

Thanks!

[gpgscott]

Welcome Gay and Perdy,

I love Dalmations, I have never had one or even knew one closely but have always admired their energy and striking appearance.

You are asking a real mouthful. To begin with as you know 13 is advanced years and she no doubt has ordindary age related issuess which the reduction in cortisol is no longer masking.

I would first want to know about the integrity of her hips and kness and then would move from there to muscle tone. There are lots of good NSAIDS administered on a daily basis and there is an injectable production called Adaquan which can help with joint issues. If it is just muscle wasting a careful physical rehab program should help once the cortisol is controlled. I also think that natural anti inflamatory supplements like flaxseed oil, and fish oil and joint supplements like glucosomine sulfate are good for most any elderly pup. This is an issue many of us deal with so check back frequently, I know many members will want to welcome you and offer information.

It would also be useful if you would post more background on Perdy such as symptoms, when they began and the testing done to confirm a diagnosis of Cushing's. Are you using either Trilostane (Vetoryl) or Lysodren (Mitotane) in treatment.

Welcome again, Best wishes. Scott

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Gay and welcome to you and Perdy Girl :)

She surely is a Perdy Girl :D Have no experience or suggestions for what you're describing, but wondering what "VOM" is? I also notice you're using SupraGlan- was that recommended by your vet, or just something you came across on the internet? The reason I ask is if you're using that as opposed to the big guns (trilostane/vetoryl or lysodren/mitotane) the supraglan may help with the symptoms, but not even the company says that it reduces cortisol production. If memory serves, Glynda (Lulu'sMom) wrote to them asking for further details and research to show it's effiacy as a viable treatment alternative, but only got the sales pitch.

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[jrepac]

moderate exercise is good....as Scott said, joints may play a role. glucosamine/MSM supplements are good for those issues. And you can get it in the form of various treats.

for muscle wasting, L-Glutamine may be worth a try...some of us use that.

but, I suppose first off, you need to treat the main problem, which is the elevated cortisol brought on by the Cushings disease


Jeff

[PerdyGirly]

Hello again and thanks to all who replied to my questions. Here is some more info on my girl.

Her hips and knees were good at her last Vet visit (about 4 months ago).

The original symptoms were skull-like appearance of the head, excess panting, excess water consumption (although this is not necessarily due to Cushings as Dals are prone to this anyway and she has always been a big water drinker), and the elevated Alk-Phos level. She had a couple of tests done (I'd have to dig out the particulars) but I know that her latest bun/creatin test result was a 22.

The VOM is a type of chiropractic treatment. It is done with a hand-held device that you use down the spine. We've had it done to a couple of our dogs for various reasons and it seemed to help them. I spoke with one of my Vets today (he was here to treat a horse) and he thinks this would help her. He also spoke highly of the cold laser therapy.

I came across the Supra Glan in an internet search. I printed out all of the info and my Vet read it over. She said that it would not hurt to try it and she also mentioned a product from a company called Standard Process. I feel that the Supra Glan has helped alleviate some of the symptoms so I will continue it at least until the next Vet visit (in late October/early November).

Just as an FYI, the Dalmatian I had prior to Perdy died from drug-induced liver failure from her anti-seizure medication. That experience changed the way I look at a lot of issues.

Sorry for the loooooooooong post! Thanks again for the welcome!

[apollo6]

Dear Gay and Perdy Girl
She is a beautiful girl.
Your diet is very similar to Apollo's, good choice.
Apollo has back problems and I go to a holistic vet chiropractor for his back. I did holistic for as long as I could but even my vet told me to get the test and said medication would help. I am very much against medications and vaccines after what I went through with Apollo.
But after going to two specialists, getting a full blood panel, ultrasound of his abdominal , ACHT STIM test, urinylsas, I realized Apollo needed help. He has the hind leg weakness, muscle wasting from cushings. Apollo started on Trilostane in June and has improved a lot other then the hind leg weakness. I took my time researching what I could on cushing, making sure which kind it was( note there are three kinds) then deciding which treatment option was available for the type Apollo has. I still do holistic, chiropractor, but I have integrated it with the medication. Holistic does not cure Cushing. It can complement but not cure it. I really can't give any input on Supra-Glan. My holistic vet recommended Cushex, which I use in combination with his medicine.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Casey's Mom]

After my girl Casey was first diagnosed 18 months ago and began treatment with Lysodren her hind end weakness became apparent probably because the excess cortisol was no longer masking arthritis in her hind end. I had her xrayed when she fell down the stairs and the vet said it was arthritis but not severe - she seemed to think Casey was a bit of a wimp! This may be a little different than your dogs case - we lived on a farm for most of her life and her "job" (in her eyes) was making sure our two horses were together at all times even if they didn't want to be! She was kicked a few times in the process.:(

I have Casey on the same homemade diet as your dog with some Wellness Core Reduced Fat kibble. The things I have added to her regimen are monthly Adequan injections, Milk Thistle, L-Glutamine, Salmon Oil and Glucosamine Chondroitin. Six months after her diagnosis and treatment and adding the above she was running and a year later continues to run and trot at the park. She is now 14 1/2.

I hope some of these ideas help.

[gpgscott]

Hi Gay,

I hear you on the issue of over treatment and possible organ damage, a big concern. If you are seeing improvement in symptoms with the SG product I guess it can't do harm, Glynda as has been mentioned has researched it thouroughly.

I understand from your response that you have had no Cushing's specific diagnostics at this point, is this correct? There is a very simple starting point which is called UC:CR it is a urine test which if a rule out for Cushing's. A result in Cushing's range requires more Cushing's specific testing but a result not in Cushing's range means almost certainly no Cushing's and you can concentrate on other issues.

Untreated Cushing's will impose a much more serious burden on internal organs and risk of organ failure than a proper treatment.

Best wishes. Scott

[Harley PoMMom]

Here's another veterinarian, Dr. Brennen McKenzie, analysis and commentary about Supraglan on his SkeptVet Blog.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/07/empty-promises-not-medicine/

Please do not think I am "bad mouthing" your vet here because I am not. I just you to have as much information as you can on any medicine, supplement or herb that you are giving Perdy Girl, ok? We are here for you and Perdy Girl, Gay.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Gay and welcome to you and Perdy Girly! :)

She is a beauty! My brother has had several Dalmations, two deaf who learned sign language. :) They are wonderful dogs.

I wanted to give some input on the SupraGlan. It may help with the symptoms (or signs, as they are called in animals) but it also has an inherent risk that bothers me. The "glan" portion of the name is for animal glands that are included in the product. The problem is these glands are not regulated or tested before use. So you run the risk of getting an infected or diseased gland in the product you are using. Now, please understand, I am all for a more "natural" approach in just about every area, but I am not comfortable using animal tissues that are unregulated. I am not telling you to stop using it just wanted you to know what the company will not tell you... they can't if they want to stay in business. ;)

Muscle mass is one of the last things to improve. So it may be that Perdy just hasn't been on treatment long enough to see improvement in that area yet. Just don't get tunnel vision with Cushing's....it is so easy for us to lay everything we see on that as the cause but sometimes there is an unrelated reason for the signs we see that indicate something just isn't right. I hope you start to see her legs getting better soon.

I am looking forward to seeing the test results for Perdy Girly when you get them. That will help us help you better. (Great use of the language, huh? :D) I am really glad you found us and hope to learn more about the both of you in the time to come.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[jrepac]

Hi Gay!

I'd strongly recommend you get the UCCR test done to see if Cushings is a possibility. The symptoms seem like Cushings, but you can never be sure. At least the UCCR will screen out a case of non-Cushings. Without further testing, you are just guessing, and it is very hard to be certain.

Re: Supraglan, I am glad you are getting some symptom relief. It is fine to be skeptical about this stuff (Supraglan and Cushex, etc., etc.), but I will say that some vets, doctors and scientists may not be the most open-minded professionals. I am sure that many of us have seen/experienced this first hand.

However, some homeopathic/holistic vets treat with herbs, and some of those herbs are in these products. If you take the time to read up on the ingredients, you will find the various conditions these herbs have been used to treat in humans. And it SEEMS like they might help a Cushpup. Now, how effective are these herbs really? Not too much info. is out there on that count. Much of it is merely anecdotal/testimonial. But ironically, I don't see any of the "scientists" out there testing these herbs clinically...why? The pharma companies are too busy trying to find the next "new thing" out there so they can charge us outrageous amounts of money (sorry to offend anyone, but this is truth). No company is going to invest money testing herbs or other "old" meds that cost pennies to produce. Frankly, I am shocked that Marin and Denosyl were actually brought to market in the veterinary field (both are non-Rx and are derived from herbs/supplements).

I used Cushex for some time as an early "treatment" when I suspected Cushings but did not have a firm diagnosis. I really can't say it helped or hurt, for that matter. I know my dog hated the taste! I did stop using it, when I brought other meds & supplements into play. The dandelion ingredient bothered me, as it promotes urination, something I'd really want less of in a Cushpup, not more. :D

Best of luck 2 U

[Annie's Mom]

Hi Gay and Perdy,
Perdy is so beautiful!
Others on the forum have much more experience than I, so I'll keep my comments brief. I am curious which Standard Process product your vet recommended. I recently started taking some of their supplements, recommended to me by my Chinese herbalist/accupunturist, and I believe they have a quality line of products. A friend of mine highly recommends Standard Process (she gives her cat one of their products). Time for me to research their dog product line. I give my Annie Adequan, L-Glutamine, glucosamine. Her rear-end weakness is getting worse (I believe due to age/severe arthritis), but I do wonder how much worse Annie would be without these additives? I hope Perdy starts improving quickly!

[jrepac]

With Cushings, it's always a problem w/the muscle weakness, often indicated by the symptom of trembling, shaking or unsteadiness. I"ve seen it come and go at times as well. Then you may be faced with arthritis as well...(as am I)...treating cushings by lowering cortisol can actually make the arthritis worse, so it is a catch - 22. And, NSAIDs are not good when the pup has cushings...too hard on the liver. Continued supplements of Glucosomine, MSM, etc. may be the best shot. I took that route...it takes a bit of time, but should help somewhat.

Jeff