Harry deteriorating - ideas welcome

[H-man]

Hi folks,
We've been trotting along on Trilostane for Harry for some years now - pituitary cushings. He's now almost 16 and has just had a dreadful time with great anxiety at the petsitter's he has always gone to when Im away. It seems he had a few falls, im not sure how severe they were. He has no spatial awareness at all and that's not new so much as just much worse. He has been homenow a week, and I think we're at the end of his improvement. He is absolutely blind now, wheras had a little sight before - enough to find his way around anyway. he's also much weaker in his back legs.
I will take him to his vet as soon as I can, but im wondering if anyone else has expereinced increased eye pressure problems as a side effect form Trilostane? Also any ideas re the weakness would be handy!

Thanks,
Wendy, Harry, Izzy & princess Patsy in heaven xx

[mytil]

Wendy, I wish I could offer some ideas here on eye pressure and any possible relationship to Trilo...I have no direct experience with this. I am sorry to hear about his total blindness now....it is possible he is having these troubles and anxiety because now he cannot see at all and upset even more because he fell?

Is he on any other type of medication?

I will hold you both in my thoughts and prayers and please let us know what the vet finds.

Terry xxx

[H-man]

Hi Terry,

I'm piecing together a bit more of the story with my aunt who took over his care. We think he may have been overdosed on Valium by the dogsitter, perhaps after a fall that hit his head. He became quite distressed, howling continuously, legs collapsing and then totally disoriented tho the dogsitter hasnt related it to one single fall, Im wondering if he's had a head injury that has affected his remaining sight.
I'll make a call tomorrow to our specialist I think. Im getting very angry in the meantime that I cant get the whole story from the carer. I left a very different dog with him.

So very sad for a lovely old boy who deserves better.

Wendy x

[bkdice]

Hi Wendy. Reading about Harry is heartbreaking to me, since it reminds me some of Niko. He hit his head hard a few times the last few months of his life. I had bumpers up in the house (insulation piping cut in half and stuck on corners) and all the stairs blocked, but it was from him tripping outside on the sidewalk. Ugh....

In his case, I believe either the cancer had spread to his brain, or his pituitary tumor had turned into a macro, as he became slowly more disoriented the last few months of his life and was anxious if I was not around. The night before I lost him he took a major turn for the worse (he had been out of remission from lymphoma for 2 weeks), I could not calm him down... he circled frantically until he fell over from being dizzy... he was so anxious that even valium could not comfort him. He was not himself at all. It was so hard to watch.

Niko also had a vestibular disease attack a few years before, and from that day on, had residual vertigo. I could always tell because of his eye movements. It usually only happened when he changed positions (upright to laying or vice versa). Does Harry have any of that.

I'm not sure what you can do except watch him. It can be SO difficult to watch deterioration not knowing if it will be relieved or reversed. :( I feel for you. Hang in there. Keeping sweet Harry in my thoughts.

[Boxer_lover]

Hi Wendy, I am Wendy haha. I am so sorry your boy is having trouble. I don't have anything to add but I wanted to say that I will say a prayer for your boy and I hope he feels better soon!


Wendy, Ben, Elliott and Olivia

[littleone1]

Hi Wendy,

I'm so sorry to hear about what Harry is going through. I don't have any advice I can offer, but I am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully this is only temporary, and that his eyesight will improve so that he can at least see things.

[judymaggie]

Wendy -- I am sad that you and Harry are going through rough times. Whenever I read of a pup having undiagnosed difficulties, I so wish that they could talk to us! Healing thoughts and prayers headed your way.

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Wendy,
I have no advice to offer but I will offer up good thoughts and prayers that Harry comes through this.

[zoesmom]

Thinking of you and the H-man, Wendy and hoping that you get some answers (:mad:) and that maybe he'll start to do better very very soon. Sue

[frijole]

Prayers and warm thoughts from my home too Kim

[Bichonluver3]

Wendy,
You are also in our thoughts. please let us know what the vet says. Good, bad or indifferent it would be so helpful to know the whole story - diagnosis and treatment might be easier. In the meantime, we are praying for the H-man.
Hugs & tail wags,
Carrol & Chloe

[jrepac]

I will cross my fingers and hope he improves; perhaps this is only temporary...

[H-man]

Hi folks,
Thanks for all your help - as always it's so good to know you aren't alone!
Dr Steve thought first off his tumour had gone macro, but neurological signs are all good so it's unlikely. Its hard to tell why he's suddenly lost all his remaining sight, but he thinks that's the problem and that he's just adjusting but finding it very stressful. Harry is also losing weight despite a good diet so he took some bloods to check a few things.
We had the quality of life discussion and while harry still has a little hearing, he thinks his quality of life is OK. I will have to see how he adjusts to the total blindness and take it from there.
I wonder what the lesson for me is in having blind dogs one after the other..

Thanks everyone,
Wendy, Harry, Izzy & angel Patsy xxxx

[Spiceysmum]

So sorry to hear about Harry. Hope you get some answers soon.

Linda and Spicey

[bernie47]

Nice thoughts.. and warm wishes to you from ebonie and myself.. Catherine..

[BestBuddy]

Hi Wendy,

I'm slow off the mark again but just as sincere in my wishes that Harry comes through this.

Jenny

[frijole]

Wendy - Of course we all have to make those awful tough decisions based on our own value systems but I just wanted to share that Haley lost her hearing very suddenly at the age of 14. Her eyesight slowly went and she was 16 1/2 when she passed. She managed in my home to be very happy - walked around all the time both in and out. The key I think is to replace the lost hearing with lots of hugs and physical attention. I think Haley's hearing and eyesight loss were harder on me than her. Truly. Hang in there. It is tough to see them grow old. I send you lots of hugs and warm thoughts. Kim

[Casey's Mom]

Caseys hearing went suddenly too - I can't even remember when - she hears now if its loud but most things she sleeps through. Whenever we have a thunderstorm I am happy for her because it has to be pretty loud now - if not she sleeps through it.

Love and many hugs,

[Squirt's Mom]

Just popping in to see how Harry is this morning...hope you both are doing well!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[H-man]

Hey everyone, so lovely to read all this fantastic love and advice. We are hanging in there and little by little i think Harry is adapting. I got his blood test results today and the only thing a little raised was his blood glucose, but certainly not enough to suggest diabetes. Everything else was in range, ridiculously healthy appearing dog it seems!
Having said that, we still have a weight loss problem that needs a high fat, no rice (he throws up) small kibble recipe, so any suggestions would be great!I got a sample tonight of holistic select which has some brown rice and white rice but 15% fat - the highest Ive found so far.

House wise, I've put mats down where his water bowls and the dog door are, and will put different oils on each so hopefully he'll remember a smell for each. Im still not game to go far from home. Im wondering about closing him in to a small section of the house where my bedroom and his bed are, the dog door, his water bowl and then a small section outside from the dog door. just dont know if that will make it more confusing when i let him into the rest of the house. is it better to just use lots of scent?

I'm not about to cop out on my boy, we're in for the long haul. Just that i won't ever let him be in miserable pain or have no quality of life at all. He still enjoys sitting on the sand at the beach and going for rides in his pram. Day to day for this old boy.
thanks so much lovely friends xxxx Wendy

[BestBuddy]

The only one I found with a higher fat content is Artemis (available online) with a fat content of 22% but it has a very high protein of 42% which I don't think would be too good for Harry.

Have a look at the following link

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/diet4.htm

I haven't used any of the recipes but they look easy to do and normal sort of ingredients.

Jenny

[H-man]

Jenny, is it possible that if Harry is undiagnosed diabetic and ate cat food for 7 days, had acute abdo pain from pancreatitis, stressed out as well, that he could have a diabetic crisis? Is cat food high in sugar?
Is high protein no good because of the cushings? I've been giving him chicken breast with every meal to get him eating - is it te I cooked him you think?
Thanks darl, bless xx
Wendy x

[BestBuddy]

I think that eating cat food could upset the pancreas and that is what is in control of insulin production and regulation. Any time there is a pancreatic problem there is a possibility of diabetes. I think if Harry had diabetes that BG level you had done would be really high not just a bit elevated.

To be honest I am not sure about why the high protein would not be good I just remember that early on with Buddy I was told that high protein made their bodies work really hard to convert it and so I steered clear of any food that was really high. I actually started to use the high protein Artemis (Maximal) with my two boys but they started putting on weight so I am changing to the Adult.

Jenny

[H-man]

Hmm. I think my poor boy was in pain the whole week then - what a disaster that dogsitter was! Harry needs to stay home and be minded if I have to go away again. will work on a home sitter for emergencies.
I think you're right about the BG level - because he would've needed insulin to bring it down if he's a sedentary dog wouldn't he? So must've been pancreatitis.

He made it out the dog door on his own today - yay!! I've closed off a small area outside so he cant go far. He seems to be finding his way around inside now much better.
I'll check out Artemis - maybe they can send me a sample.
Thanks Jen and when are you in melbourne next? maybe we can meet halfway?
Wendy xx

[AlisonandMia]

Hi Wendy,

If he has recently had pancreatitis then a high fat diet would definitely be contraindicated no matter that he needs to gain weight. A high-fat diet would surely trigger another attack.:eek:

Has he been tested specifically for pancreatitis lately? The specific test is cTLI (which stands for "canine Trypsin-like immunoreactivity - http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/west/index.php)

Alison

[BestBuddy]

Not sure when another trip to Melb is on the cards but I do have two kinds of the Artemis. I can send a goody bag of the Maximal and the Adult Small Breed if you like. PM your new address and I can pit it in the post.

Jen

[bkdice]

so glad to hear harry is doing ok and adapting. i hope things continue to improve. :)