Phoebe may not have Cushings!

[Jane P]

My dog Phoebe who is 5 years old has just been diagnosed with Cushings. Of course I'm very worried for her health. She does some panting in the evening for about 30 minutes, but that's about it. The vet originally told me she wouldn't start Phoebe on medication since she has few symptoms and is so young. I'm pretty overwhelmed with all the information I've gleaned from the internet and don't want to rush to start treatment if it doesn't hurt to wait. Anyone have a similar experience or have a comment?
I need help.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Jane and welcome from me and my boy Harley! I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but glad that you found this forum.

Strong symptoms are a huge part of making the diagnosis, and a Cushing's savy vet will not initiate any treatment without strong symptoms and a proper diagnosis. Cushing's is a slow progressing disease so one does have the time to get their pup a proper diagnosis.

We do tend to ask alot of questions from our new members, only so we can give you the best feedback as it pertains about your girl, ok? So here are some of my questions: :eek:

What tests were done to confirm Phoebe cushing's?
Was a CBC/Chemistry blood panel recently done on her and if so, could you post anything on there that is marked abnormal with the reference ranges and the units of measurements (U/L, mg/dl).
Was an ultrasound done on her, and if so, could you post any abnormalities that are listed.
Does she have any other health issues, and was diabetes and any thyroid issues ruled out?
How much does she weigh?

Well I believe that's enough questions from me! Just remember you are not alone on this journey, we are here for you and Phoebe.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[zoesmom]

Hi Jane and Phoebe-

Overwhelmed is a good description of what we all felt, upon learning that our dogs had cushings. So deep breath. It will be ok. Educating yourself is the best thing you can do for Phoebe and it sounds like you've already started doing that.

So she has none of the usual symptoms of excessive thirst, appetite, frequent infections, fur/skin issues, pot belly, muscle wasting and/or weak legs? Just occasional panting, right? Can you tell us what test(s) your vet has done so far? And the results? If you don't have them, now would be a good time to start asking for and keeping copies of all testing that is done from here on out. We all learned to keep them in a file at home. What led your vet to suspect cushings in the first place? Oftentimes, they see things on general labwork that is done for some unrelated procedure - like dental cleaning. There are also several other diseases that have similar symptoms and that should be ruled out as well. Cushings can be a tricky diagnosis, and more than one test may be required to confirm it.

If she truly has no other symptoms but tests show she's positive for cushings, then yes, it is usually recommended to hold off on treatment until the signs become more obvious. And even if Phoebe does end up on cush treatment eventually, with a cooperative, knowledgeable vet and an educated mom, Phoebe should live out her normal lifespan. Sue

[addy]

Hi Jane,

I am new to this also but wanted to say welcome and tell you that you are now in good hands. The senior members are a wealth of information.

My Zoe is eight years old and recently diagnosed with Cushings. She does not have all of the usual symptoms, some dogs will only have a few. She does have a rat's tail and thinning coat. She licks everything! Doesn't like the heat and has mild exercise intolerance.

Please follow the suggestions to read all you can, including the threads. You will discover more info on the usual symptoms as well as some you might not know about. Some vets say treat the symptoms not the diagnosis.

Sorry you have to be here but this group is a Godsend!

Addy

[apollo6]

Welcome Jane,
I am also new at this. Like many senior members said, get the tests to confirm if it is Cushing's. There are 3 different kinds of Cushing, which you need to differentiate. There are different treatment options.I suspected something was already wrong in 2003. But my Apollo was not diagnosed with it until May 2010. So what we are all saying is you don't have to rush into anything right now. Read up about cushing's first under Canine Cushing information thread. my thread is Apollo on Trioslante. It took me a few months before I made any decisions. I researched, questioned, found a vet who treats cushing. Went to two vets before I found one I trusted.
We are here for you. You don't have to make a decision right away.

[SavingSimon]

My dog Phoebe who is 5 years old has just been diagnosed with Cushings. Of course I'm very worried for her health. She does some panting in the evening for about 30 minutes, but that's about it. The vet originally told me she wouldn't start Phoebe on medication since she has few symptoms and is so young. I'm pretty overwhelmed with all the information I've gleaned from the internet and don't want to rush to start treatment if it doesn't hurt to wait. Anyone have a similar experience or have a comment?
I need help.

Hi Jane,
I'm kind of new here too - but my dog Simon's first symptom, if I look back was the panting. I wish I knew then all of the things that I know now. This forum, these wonderful people who love their dogs like you love Phoebe and have all been through the Cushing's Crushing emotions and fears or are still going through them like me, will be a big help to you. Everyone is going to want to know how the diagnosis was made, and what all your test results were, so be ready to have your dog's medical records by you when you visit to post.
So, how was Phoebe diagnosed? :)
A lot of vets are going to tell you what they told me, I would imagine. I was told to start treatment with Trilostane immediately by at least twelve vets and specialists and one holistic vet. Two vets told me to wait until Simon's symptoms were worse. Welcome to :confused::confused::confused: land! Some vets will tell you that trilostane isn't safe and some will tell you lysodren isn't safe (the truth is nothing is safe) and the main thing people here will tell you is that it is normal to be totally scared and not feel sure of what you should do because, like my vet told me, this disease isn't something that is "black and white" there is no "black or white" answer, what works for some doesn't for others and you can run around and get a lot of conflicting and confusing professional opinions. The main thing is that you should do all of the tests, in my opinion. You know your dog. I knew something was wrong with Simon when he was just panting. His next symptom was overeating (he was a picky eater before) and then he got a pot belly and weak in his back legs. Then he was licking the furniture until there were such big pools of drool I thought that one of my other dogs (the only big one, my Anatolian Shepherd) was peeing on the cushions or something.) It seems like the symptoms came up one at a time, but I'm not sure. Simon never got the symptom of drinking too much water, or peeing a lot, and so a lot of vets did not want to say he had Cushings even though the tests said he did and I knew he had something wrong and that all of the symptoms he DID have were symptoms of Cushings. Simon does have pituatary dependent Cushings disease, and finally the tests have convinced the vets that I'm not just "making up or reading symptoms into something that isn't there" kind of thing. Just convincing them he was sick was frustrating. Now trying to figure out what to do about it ... well - that's where we are on his thread. I'm sorry to have to welcome you to this place only because of the frustration, confusion, and fears you will be facing, but I am happy to welcome you to such a well educated, caring group that will stand by you and Phoebe, pray for you and support you in every way we can. Welcome to the "grey zone" disease forums. Though you aren't going to find out that there is a right answer until after you have made some choices that will be scary, I believe you will find the right answer for your girl because you have found yourself in the right place.
You and Phoebe are in our prayers, let us know if there is anything we can do for you.
Love and wags
Dena, Simon and pack

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Jane and welcome to you and Phoebe,

A little over a year ago my little boy Franklin and I were in the same position - diagnosis, but not many symptoms.
Before I found this group, the only things I had read about cushings was that the lifespan of an untreated pup is 2 years. So naturally I freaked out, and we began treatment with trilostane. Franklin would do well for a week or two, then have loose stoools or be off his food, he could never really get into a comfortable groove on the trilo.
I found these wonderful, incredible people, and they were kind enough to educate me. We have since had further testing (testing, testing, testing.....) and it turns out that Franklin has atypical cushings syndrome- so the trilostane was the completely wrong treatment option for him.

I have forwarded articles to our vet, and he has become more knowledgeable about cushings as a result (again, due to the wonderful, caring people of K9C).

Please keep in mind that cushings is not a death sentence. Read all you can, ask questions, and read more. If and when the time comes that Phoebe needs treatment, you will be in a much better state of mind than overwhelmed and panicked. Knowledge is power, and you will hear that over and over- because it is so true.
I owe my little boy's life to all the folks here, and I am eternally grateful to each and every one of them.

With love,
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[Jane P]

Sue, thanks for the encouragement and the idea that Phoebe could live out a normal life span. Currently, there are very few symptoms. I'm appreciative of all the responses I got regarding Phoebe on this forum. Jane

[Jane P]

I want to thank all of the people who responded to my first post. It's very encouraging to know that I'm not alone. Some of the symptoms of Cushings (increased appetite, increased thirst) Phoebe exhibited when she went on phenabartitol at the age of 3 for seizures. Her seizures are well controlled, but the drug causes the abovementioned effects. It was the excessive panting I observed that caused me to go to the vet for answers. She's had several blood panels and her alkaline phosphate increased a lot in just two months, so the vet did the blood test checking hormone levels after an injection of (can't remember right now) and then checked again in two hours. The results were indicative of Cushings. Next step is the ultrasound. AT this point I'm taking Phoebe to an internal medicine vet at the small animal clinic at UC Davis for a consultation. I'm taking all my questions to the specialist. So I get to keep getting educated and when the time comes to put Phoebe on medication, I'll feel good about my decision.
Jane

[Harley PoMMom]

You are correct that seizure medications, like phenobarbital, can cause some of the same symptoms as Cushing's even the elevated alkaline phosphate.

Another note concerning seizure medications, and this quote comes from Dr. Edward C. Feldman. Edward C. Feldman, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM, is the chair of the Department of Medicine and Epidemiology at the University of California-Davis School of Veterinary Medicine.


Misleading Results:
Anticonvulsant medications can cause dogs to have abnormal plasma cortisol concentrations.http://www.io.com/~lolawson/cushings/articles/feldman4.pdf

In this quote he is talking more about the LDDS test, numerous factors, including pheno, may interfere with the suppressive effects of dexamethasone. So it is a very good idea that you are taking Phoebe to see an IMS. Wishing you and Phoebe the best of luck on your vet visit. Keep us updated, please.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Jane P]

You are correct that seizure medications, like phenobarbital, can cause some of the same symptoms as Cushing's even the elevated alkaline phosphate.

Another note concerning seizure medications, and this quote comes from Dr. Edward C. Feldman. Edward C. Feldman, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM, is the chair of the Department of Medicine and Epidemiology at the University of California-Davis School of Veterinary Medicine.

http://www.io.com/~lolawson/cushings/articles/feldman4.pdf

In this quote he is talking more about the LDDS test, numerous factors, including pheno, may interfere with the suppressive effects of dexamethasone. So it is a very good idea that you are taking Phoebe to see an IMS. Wishing you and Phoebe the best of luck on your vet visit. Keep us updated, please.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Thanks for that link. It will be interesting to see what the internist has to say. Thanks again. Jane

[Jane P]

Hi Everyone,
I took Phoebe (5 year old poodle/bischon) to UC Davis to the Vet Teaching hospital. She saw an internist who questions the results of the ACTH test. She said definitely not conclusive and in the "grey" area. She said the Phenobarbitol (which Pheobe has been on since she was 3) can cause the skewed tests and raised cortisol. She will be consulting with a neurologist and an endochronologist regarding Phoebe. Most likely she will be transitioned to the Potassium Bromide and then possibly tested. The panting shows up only occasionally (2-3 times a week for 2-20 minutes). The internist said that Phenobarbitol can actually cause this.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Phoebe and am so glad I took her to the specialist at the school. It was a 2.5 hour process, but worth the $103 they charged me. More will be revealed.

[sunimist]

Thanks for the update Jane. Sounds like you have placed Phoebe in great professional care with the internist at UC Davis.

The internist said that Phenobarbitol can actually cause this.I have also heard and read this about Phenobarbitol.

Good luck, and we are keeping fingers crossed. :)

Shelba and Suni~~

[Harley PoMMom]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Phoebe and am so glad I took her to the specialist at the school. It was a 2.5 hour process, but worth the $103 they charged me.

Definitely will be keeping my finger crossed too, and thank you so much for keeping us updated. Wishing you and Phoebe the best of luck.


More will be revealed.
Please keep us updated, ok? ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Jane P]

I switched Phoebe to Natural Balance Organic dog food about two weeks ago. She has not had a panting session since and is less agitated then she was. The other dog food, Purina Beneful Healthy Weight, was full of dyes, preservatives and who knows what else. I'm glad I switched her. Being on the Phenobarbital may make her more sensitive to additives. I hadn't realized it could make such a difference.

The internist from UC Davis said that to just watch her for symptoms. If the panting becomes a problem again or I may decide to switch her to the KBr anyway, then if the panting is still present, we could test again for Cushings. Right now, it is looking favorable that Phoebe may not have the disease. Thanks for everyone's support.

It's a wait and see situation. Patience.
Jane;)