My dogs cushings went away because...

[jackrussell]

Hi,
My Jack Russell has had a rough 3 years... well maybe a ruff 3 years - but 3 years ago he was diagnosed with Cushings. I mastered his dosage of Trilostane and he was living the life. But then last summer we got really bad news. He was diagnosed with lymphoma. Its not curable but it can be treated for a year if you're lucky...
Now the part about his Cushings going away.
I really hope that this is real and it will work for other dogs.
The day I gave him chemo (vincristine) his Cushings just went away. I have not given him trilostane in almost a year, and as a matter of fact he's on prednisone for the lymphoma which would be an absolutely crazy thing to do to a cushinoid dog.
There might be something to giving a cushingnoid dog vincristine so help spread the word to see if there are other people out there who experienced the same thing.

A little history of my boy. He will be 15 in less than a month (7/15/2010). When the symptoms of cushings presented 3 years ago he was given an ultrasound which by luck revealed a badly enlarged galbladder. We narrowly escaped a rupture when we had it removed. We then continued his cushings diagnosis. He was eventually put on trilostane which made a world of difference. Then last July we got the bad news he had lymphoma. Unfortunately, this disease might have us beat, but I'm pullinh out all the stops and calling in all favors. As long as he is eating, sleeping, sniffing and in no pain I will keep him in the game. He's not moving to fast or too far but he still has a twinkle in his eye. I worship every day I have him. I love my boy.

Thanks

[mypuppy]

Hi and Welcome,
Your story is pretty amazing! My pup was diagnosed in Sept. '09 and is currently on trilostane treatment without any resolution of symptoms, not really engaging or playful, extremely hungry and panting all the time and it breaks my heart as it does every single person here on this forum who have had so many issues related to cushings and its treatment. As you, I too I miss the twinkle in her eyes and so wish I can get it back. I'm so sorry for your pup's other diagnosis but glad you hear you are fighting for him, and that he is doing well. Whatever it was that made his cushings or symptoms subside why even question and is a blessing. Thank you so very much for sharing your experience, and I look forward to hearing some good updates on your boy. God Bless and hugs, Jeanette and Princess

[StarDeb55]

Welcome to both of you! I will say that your pup & you are dealing with a lot. My first boy, Barkley, also developed lymphoma about 6 years after his Cushing's diagnosis, so believe me I understand.


He was diagnosed with lymphoma. Its not curable but it can be treated for a year if you're lucky.

I'm not sure where you are getting this information. Are you seeing an oncologist? Did they give you this information? You are correct, lymphoma is not curable. No matter what you do, the pup will eventually relapse. What I disagree with is the one year time frame. My Barkley survived nearly 2 years with chemo with a great quality of life. When I was a member of a lymphoma dogs support group, I know of pups in that group who had survived 4-5 years. Yes, they had relapsed, underwent rescue chemo therapy protocols, & achieved another remission.

Now, concerning the vincristine making the Cushing's go away. Have you simply seen a reduction of cush symptoms or has an ACTH been done that shows your pup's cortisol is now normal. What has your vet said about this? I'm very curious as neither my IMS or oncologist ever indicated that chemo would resolve Barkley's Cushings. B still had to maintain his Cushing's treatment. Have your vet/s approved not giving the trilostane?

I'm sorry to question you so much, but being a medical lab technologist who works in Hematology, I really have some serious doubts as to the vincristine either working on the adrenal glands to slow/stop the production of cortisol or this chemo drug entering the brain & affecting the lesion in the pit gland that causes Cushing's in most dogs. Vincristine specifically targets certain kinds of tumor cells, & I don't believe it has any affect in the two areas that I have already mentioned.

I'm very happy that your pup's cushing's appears to have improved, but concerned that you may be working under some misinformation.

Debbie

[zoesmom]

I did have a rather similar experience with my cush girl who took trilostane for 4 years. During that time, she needed ever-increasing doses, ending up on a a whoppin' 180 mg of trilo twice a day. And there were times when that barely kept her cortisol in check. We just lost her this past March at age 13 - to a probable brain tumor.

About a year and a half before the end, she was put on a fairly safe antibiotic called tylan for SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, a condition which can cause horrific gas and soft stools.) Up until the tylan, we had battled almost constant uti's, the semi-resistant cortisol levels, fluctuating thyroid levels (always adjusting her thyroxine), and only partial resolution of her PD/PU (excess drinking, peeing.) The latter had improved to a degree on the trilo, but even when her ACTH numbers were in a decent range, she still drank & peed more than she should have. Then the tylan . . . and literally overnight her PD/PU dropped by half. As time passed, I realized the uti's had virtually come to a halt, as well. Her thyroid levels stabilized and her cortisol finally started staying more constant -around 5. Now the tylan certainly wasn't a cushings cure, but it did seem to tame many of her ongoing, cushings related problems. But I'm certain we could not have just up and stopped the trilo.

Why the unexpected and beneficial side effects, who knows. Our IMS vet had no explanation. Like you, I was thinking that the research community ought to hear about this so as to explore it further. Unfortunately, I had and still have no idea who to contact to share the information. But with a chemo drug, that would not be something for an owner to experiment with. Now maybe other cush dogs on the same chemo drug for lymphoma have had a similar response. But again, that kind of information is best shared with the oncology/endocrinology researchers.

And Debbie's question about your guy's cortisol is a crucial one. Was an ACTH done any time since? If not, I'd highly recommend it, even tho' lots of time has apparently passed. Too bad your vet didn't suggest one, immediately, when you first noticed the change. But yours IS a very interesting observation. Sue

[Bichonluver3]

Have you sent your observations to Dr. Oliver? It might be interesting to get his take on it
Carrol

[O'Riley]

This is very interesting, and I appreciate your posting your experience. It gets people to thinking, which is always good.

Can you describe how your dog was diagnosed with lymphoma? Symtoms, etc? Do you think he could have had primary pituitary lymphoma from the beginning? The following link is to human info, but it seems that vincristine and prednisone are part of a chemotherapeutic regimen to manage pituitary lymphoma. It says that pituitary lymphoma "may present with symptoms of anterior pituitary hormone dysfunction." Would this look like PDH?

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/jcem;86/10/4567

Your dog is one lucky guy to have you as his human.

~Rose

[StarDeb55]

Rose, I will not speak for Jackrussell, but I can tell you how my 1st cushpup, Barkley's lymphoma was diagnosed. Barkley had not been himself for several weeks, very vague symptoms that I could not really pinpoint. When he stopped eating, is when I panicked as even with his Cushing's well controlled, Barkley always had a huge appetite. His derm vet had recently changed one his allergy meds, & I thought that might be it.

We went to the derm vet. Of course, the first thought with a cushpup is their cortisol is too low. His ACTH that was done was fine. A whole bucket full of labwork was done, the only thing the derm vet said was that B's WBC count was low (leukopenia), besides the expected liver function abnormalities from his Cushing's. We had to go to Barkley's GP vet who, now, asks me if the derm vet said anything about B being anemic. Nope, not a word, but the GP vet didn't have any answers, either. With my background in hematology, I should have realized that Barkley was actually what is termed pancytopenic meaning too low WBC, RBC, all of his blood cells were too low. Pancytopenia is a huge warning sign for malignancy of some type. Barkley is literally dying a little before my eyes each day. We went back to the derm vet, I blew a fuse, & told him that no one can tell me what is going on & this boy is dying in front of my eyes. We got sent to an IMS who basically diagnosed his lymphoma on physical exam when she felt multiple enlarged lymph nodes in his limbs, & a number of other locations. She had to confirm her suspicions by an ultrasound which showed enlarged lymph nodes throughout his abdomen. She aspirated one of the nodes behind his knee which confirmed the diagnosis. B has been gone nearly 4 years, & lymphoma treatment may have changed, but at that point in time, neither his oncologist or his IMS told me that his chemotherapy would control his Cushing's. He continued on his lysodren until he crossed the bridge, 20 months after his lymphoma diagnosis.

Debbie