Chloe- has crossed over to the Rainbow Bridge - Bichon: Calcinosis Cutis

[Bichonluver3]

Greetings from the desert in California!!

I have 2 rescues: 11 yr old female bichon (Miss Chloe), 3 yr old maltipoo (Grover) - who thinks he is a bichon and a 7 yr old pure bred male bichon (Sparky) who is our Director of Security!

It has been a rough year: death of my father-in-law, my father, and also my best friend who died at 62. I am also dealing with a recurrence of skin cancer (thank goodness, so far, it is basal cell) and now this.

I am a nurse and recognized the symptoms of Cushing's in Miss Chloe. However, sometimes these symptoms creep up slowly and, looking back, there were signs previously but, at the time, they didn't ring any bells.

I am familiar with Cushing's in people but certainly not in dogs! Well, as soon as the voracious appetite and the excessive panting started, accompanied by a pot belly, I knew it was off to the vet's and back to the books.

Chloe's initial testing showed nothing remarkable in her blood panel other than increased triglycerides. They were not severely elevated so the vet put her on a Hills AH diet (although I was giving her a little canned ID to get her glucosamine down!).

Her urine was concentrating well. She was drinking more than usual and urinating a little more but nothing "out of the ballpark". She had a low dose dex suppression test done and suppressed well.

Of course, her symptoms continued. The first vet had, in the meantime, left the practice and so we were now seeing one of his colleagues who told me the next test would be the panel done at UT. In the meantime, I suggested to him that we start Chloe on the Melatonin and Flaxseed oil with Lignans. I also decided to keep her on the current diet so there would be no changes other than the "meds". He agreed. We just got the results on Friday from UT and, even though he was not at work on Friday, our vet called one of the techs and had her read the results to him over the phone. He called me to let me know the results indicated Atypical Cushing's.

Today, he had the opportunity to review the actual hard copy of the results and called to tell me that she is showing Atypical + mild Cushing's.

I am so blessed to have Dr. Lingareddy to man the ship. He called me after hours (before he left for home) and spent more than 1/2 hour on the phone while we brainstormed and looked at all our options.

We decided to continue Chloe on 3mg. Melatonin twice a day and 1 tsp of flaxseed oil with lignans once a day for now. He will re-evaluate her in 2 months (or earlier if the need arises). He has suggested that down the line, an ultrasound may be a good idea to determine the state of the adrenals. He also talked about Lysodren but said that will depend upon how she responds to the current treatment.

Meanwhile, Chloe is still as active as she can be with her pot belly. She continues to bark at her food, dance around it and throw it in the air before she eats it!

The one thing I miss is the fact that she would curl up in bed with my husband and I for the night and, now, she does spend some time on the cool tile floor. I suppose she will not be happy outdoors when the summer weather hits the desert. But....she can still put her brothers in their place!

If you have made it this far - thanks for lending an ear!

When we rescued Chloe (she was very badly abused, required surgery etc), we promised her that she would have the best life we could give her. She has stayed by my side through a couple of extremely tough times and stayed up many nights comforting me. Now it is my turn. The times I must wake up during the night to lift her on and off the bed is small compensation for the love, warmth and steadfast companionship she has given me over the last 10 years and which I hope we can share for another few years.

WHEW!!! Thanks for being here for Chloe and I and God bless all our "treasures" - big and small!

[labblab]

Hello and welcome!

I noticed that you had posted this wonderful introductory reply on another member's thread, so I have taken the liberty of "copying" it so as to also begin a new thread of your very own. This way, you will be able to continue to update us regarding Chloe's progress. And our other members will also be able to reply directly to you. :) :)

I am so glad you have found us, and I look forward to following Chloe's journey towards regaining her good health..

Marianne

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Marianne. Didn't know how to do it!!

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to you and Chloe.

I am terribly sorry for the heartbreaking losses you have experienced recently. Nobody should have to deal with the grief of losing so many in such a short period of time. You have my sincere condolences. I am happy to hear that your recurrence of skin cancer is a basal cell carcinoma. I am no stranger to those and have too many scars to count on my body from the numerous removals and/or biopsies. There is a consequence for all that baby oil I slathered on in my much younger years while baking for hours in the California sun. I'm also in So. Cal in Rancho Cucamonga.

I devote my spare time to animal rescue, mostly small dogs, so I mean it from the heart when I say bless you for adopting Miss Chloe and Grover. They are truly lucky dogs to have been given a second chance to experience a true loving, forever home. I also have two rescue dogs, one of whom has cushing's. Because I already had one dog with cushing's, it was easy for me to tell that all of Jojo's symptoms were cushing-like. Few rescues are willing or able to fund lifetime treatment for a cushdog so when Jojo was ultimately diagnosed, he went from being our foster to our forever little boy.

The fact that your vet was even aware of the UTK adrenal panel is great news as well as some pretty good evidence that he's no stranger to cushing's. It is so much easier to get our babies back on track when we're working with a vet that knows his/her stuff and takes the time to work with us. Your vet sounds awesome.

It would be really great if you could get a copy of the UTK adrenal panel and post the results here. Since your vet mentioned mild cushing's I am assuming that the post stimulated cortisol is in the high teens. I would like to mention that the lignans in flaxseed oil is no longer recommended by UTK because the amount of lignans is extremely negligible. You can find information on this on the UTK website but for ready reference, I've included a link for you below. I would recommend that you discuss this with your vet and get Chloe on any of the products recommended by UTK.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=447&d=1273600771

Noticable improvements with melatonin and lignan treatment is not a guaranty nor is it instantaneous, when it works. It can take up to three to four months which is why UTK recommends that if no improvements are noted after this time, that you consider adding a maintenance dose of Lysodren. We have many members with dogs diagnosed with atypical cushing's and no doubt, they'll be sharing their experience with you, including their experience with adding Lysodren to their pup's treatment regimen.

I am happy to hear that your vet will be doing an ultrasound. Dogs with adrenal tumors often have normal cortisol but an elevation of intermediate sex hormones so UTK does recommend that an ultrasound be done to rule out that possibility. If an adrenal tumor is involved, melatonin and lignans is not the treatment of choice.

I think I speak for everyone when I say that I'm sure glad that you found us. We're here to help in any way we can and will look forward to following Chloe's progress.

Glynda

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Glynda. We are in Rancho Mirage (from one Rancho to another! lol)

I will definitely go to the link you posted. I had not heard that about lignans but we learn something new every day. Let's hope that U of Tennessee discovers new advances every day.

Our vet is, indeed, awsome. I think he is the reason I am not freaking out but rather taking each step calmly and with good direction. He involves me in her treatment and seems to value my input. He has had experience with Cushing's and has contacted others involved with varied treatments.
I will post her values as soon as I can get a copy.

I remain upbeat (although I have had a few tears) because I have learned from "human" medicine that a strong, positive outlook and determined focus can go a long way - even if it is mine, not Chloe's!

I value your input as well as that of any other member who will share their experiences with me.
Thanks, again and have a great day.
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Well, I got the values from UTK:

TEST BASELINE NORMAL POST ACTH NORMAL
Cortisol 73.6 2.1 - 58.8 144.6 65.0-174.6
Androstenedione 1.58 0.05-0.57 4.01 0.27-3.97
Estradiol 94.6 30.8-69.9 79.1 27.9-69.2
Progesterone 0.7 0.03-0.49 1.9 0.10-1.50
17 OH Progesterone 0.42 0.08-0.77 1.36 0.40-1.62
Aldosterone 126.0 11-139.9 159.3 72.9-398.5

These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity (mild - moderate)

COMMENTS: Values are increased as indicated. Deviation from reference ranges vary from marginal to moderate. Although estradiol may contribute to clinical signs, it is not a good-specific indicator of adrenal activity.

BTW, the flaxseed oil I am giving her is BARLEANS "with highest lignans". The lignans are the Flax Hull (SDG) lignans suggested on our treatment sheet from UTK.`

[Bichonluver3]

Oooooh, Glynda, I see what you mean - UTK is suggesting HMR lignan over SDG on their website but, interestingly, on the treatment sheet we got from them last Friday, they were saying that, except for loose stools with SDG (which Chloe has not had) the difference is negligible. Go figure. Will switch to HMR.
Does anyone use other supplements to boost immune system and organ health?

[Bichonluver3]

OOPS! My mistake. Was looking at the container of Barlean's and noticed that the label reads Flax Oil NOT Flaxseed oil.
On the list of supplements on the back, it has lignans (SDG) 5-23mg. per tbl. It also contains flax particulates (hull).
Dr Lingareddy says this is perfect for her (she gets 1 tsp per day). I guess the lady in the vitamin/supplement shop knew what she was talking about.

[Bichonluver3]

Good news. Chloe has been on Barlean's Flax Oil ( not Flax Seed Oil) with highest Lignan 1tsp per day and Twinlab Melatonin Caps (I open the caps) 3 mg twice a day given in all natural applesauce (when she gets the Flax Oil, I have to add some rice or a bit of canned dog food!). She also gets Cosequin: 1 cap (opened in applesauce) with breakfast and dinner. Will try her at 1/2 this dose beginning at the end of the month.

It has been 2 weeks now and she has stopped the panting, her skin feels cooler, she is not up and down continuously throughout the night (she sleeps right through, thank goodness!), trips to the water bowl have decreased and she is not on a continual hunt for food.

Aside from the pudgy tummy and 2 fat deposits on her back, she appears and acts her former self.

She seems to have more energy, even more than she had before. Just hope that we are on the right track and she will continue to improve.

Just wanted to share. Hope all is well with all of you.
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Chloe has developed 2 lumps, one on each side, towards her rear. She does have a pot belly and fat deposits at the top of her rear legs but I haven't noticed these bumps before. She used to be very narrow at the "hips" but that area has become much wider and flatter on top. We were bathing all the dogs tonight and I noticed that her coat has thinned in the lower 3rd of her body.
Anybody else with lumps & bumps?
the other thing that has me confused is her diagnosis from Tennesse - Atypical Cushings with mild to moderate Cushings (???)
Carrol

[BestBuddy]

I wonder if they mean atypical as well as normal type cushings? There are a few already dealing with this but sorry I can't help with that one.

When you say lumps/bumps do you mean pimple type or much larger lumps?

Jenny

[StarDeb55]

Carol, all your UTK diagnosis means is that Chloe has regular cushing's with elevated cortisol, along with Atypical which means one or more of the associated hormones is elevated. Could you please post the results of Chloe's UTK panel, along with the treament recommendations? Those numbers will help us out a lot.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

TEST BASELINE NORMAL POST ACTH NORMAL
Cortisol 73.6 2.1 - 58.8 144.6 65.0-174.6
Androstenedione 1.58 0.05-0.57 4.01 0.27-3.97
Estradiol 94.6 30.8-69.9 79.1 27.9-69.2
Progesterone 0.7 0.03-0.49 1.9 0.10-1.50
17 OH Progesterone 0.42 0.08-0.77 1.36 0.40-1.62
Aldosterone 126.0 11-139.9 159.3 72.9-398.5

These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity (mild - moderate)

COMMENTS: Values are increased as indicated. Deviation from reference ranges vary from marginal to moderate. Although estradiol may contribute to clinical signs, it is not a good-specific indicator of adrenal activity.



Hi Carrol,

Chloe's post stimulated cortisol should be interpreted as normal. 144.6 falls in the higher range of normal but this is still not even considered borderline for purposes of diagnosing typical cushing's. Right now, Chloe has "atypical" cushing's and I believe the comments about being mild to moderate elevations relate strictly to the sex hormones.

Glynda

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Jenny, Debbie & Glynda for your replies. All info is greatfully appreciated. I started to notice the 2 lumps (about the size of a very small ball), one on each side. Oh, and by the way, Miss Chloe has not only stopped foraging for food night and day but has stopped eating her food unless there is something special in it!!
carrol

[BestBuddy]

Miss Chloe is obviously expecting something special all the time in her food.:D

It might be worth getting those lumps checked. Could they be lymph nodes or glands that are swollen?

Jenny

[Bichonluver3]

Miss Chloe gets her "meds" in special stuff - no fat cottage cheese, natural applesauce or, for flax oil, she must have it in oatmeal! Go figure!!
She has an appointment for wednesday afternoon with the vet. Will post update.
Thanks for your help,
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Had Miss Chloe's lumps & bumps checked on Wednesday. I thought they felt bigger and was worried. The doctor smiled and said the fatty lumps were the same size but Miss Chloe had lost weight so I had a smaller dog!!! Boy, do I feel dumb!:rolleyes:
He said she is doing very well so we hope she keeps improving. He recommended a low residue diet.
Carrol

Moderator's Note: Carrol, I have merged your update post concerning Chloe's vet visit on Weds. into Chloe's original thread. Normally, we like to keep all post on one pup to a single thread as it makes it easier for other members to refer back to the pup's history when they need to jog their memory.

Debbie

[BestBuddy]

Yay.

It doesn't matter that you were thinking the worst about those lumps, its all good news, just enjoy it.
We all get so protective about these doggies of ours but it is a good thing to keep check on any changes. Glad to hear those lumps weren't any bigger just that Miss Chloe is losing weight maybe to get ready for her swimsuit pics.:p

Jenny

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Jenny!
I see you are in Australia. My youngest son is a Naval Aviator stationed in Guam who hopes to see your beautiful country in December when he returns from deployment.
You know, I never thought about the bathing suit thing - you may be right! And, yes, we sure do enjoy the good news when it comes:D.
Carrol

[apollo6]

I have noticed a lump or bump on my little dachshund's tail under neath just recently wasn't there last month. He has ingrown hairs around the behind, that get infected and I squeeze out. I am in San Diego , ca. Will be going to specialist on Thursday. My little guy got me through my father's death to pancreatic cancer in 2003, my mother's two operations in the last few years, and so on. He licked my tears, cuddled me and made me laugh. Like you I will do anything for this little guy. I am just starting with all this stuff.
If any senior member read this, should I wait and check with the Vet if I want to start Apollo on melatonin, flaxseed lignan, etc?

[Bichonluver3]

Hi ?
Perhaps the lump under the tail is an engorged anal gland?
When we were waiting for Miss Chloe's definitive diagnosis from University of Tennessee, I told my vet that I was going to start her on the melatonin and lignans and he said to go ahead. They are natural remedies and cannot hurt her. Humans take melatonin for sleep and many dogs take flax oil for their coats. When you get the flax oil (not flax SEED oil), get Barlean's Flax Oil with highest lignans (that's what it says on the label), and regular Melatonin. Miss Chloe weighs 14 lbs. She takes 3mg of melatonin twice a day and 1 tsp of flax oil a day. She also takes glucosamine twice a day for joints. She loves her meds in all natural applesauce or fat free cottage cheese. However, she will only take the flax oil with some peanut butter or tuna as it, of course, is oily. The vet also recommended a low residue diet.
Let us know what is happening.
Carrol & Chloe

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Appolo's mom. Just noticed your other thread. Chloe has ATYPICAL Cushings and that is why she is on melatonin and flax oil. Does Appollo have Atypical Cushings or Cushings since you would be looking at different treatment.

[Bichonluver3]

We have melatonin and we have ground up flax hulls.
Has anyone heard from Tennessee regarding recommended diet and/or dietary supplements?:confused:

Moderator's Note: I have merged your new thread with your question about UTK diet/supplement suggestions with Ms. Chloe's original thread. We normally like to keep all posts concerning a single pup to one thread. I have also modified the thread to title to reflect your latest question. If you would like the title changed, please feel free to PM me or one of the other forum staff & we will be happy to make that change for you.

Debbie

[SavingSimon]

Hi Appolo's mom. Just noticed your other thread. Chloe has ATYPICAL Cushings and that is why she is on melatonin and flax oil. Does Appollo have Atypical Cushings or Cushings since you would be looking at different treatment.
Hi Carrol,
Did you mean to say "flax oil"? I'm thinking it was a typo, but in case it wasn't, flax oil is bad for our dogs - it is the flax hull lignans that they need. Basically, it is the outside shell of the seed that mimics estradiol in their system, with the hope that their body will attach some of the cortisol to this "not real" estradiol, and it will be disposed of as waste, that and it should keep them from producing more and more and more estradiol, although that has not been the case with Simon - many here have assured me that a month or two is too soon to tell if it is helping or not. Just thought I'd post that just in case you did mean to say "flax hull lignans" now you've got it right, and if you are giving the oil, I really recommend you switch to the dry stuff - which is good for your dog (good for you too, by the way - Simon and I share!) ;)

[SavingSimon]

Hi ?
Perhaps the lump under the tail is an engorged anal gland?
When we were waiting for Miss Chloe's definitive diagnosis from University of Tennessee, I told my vet that I was going to start her on the melatonin and lignans and he said to go ahead. They are natural remedies and cannot hurt her. Humans take melatonin for sleep and many dogs take flax oil for their coats. When you get the flax oil (not flax SEED oil), get Barlean's Flax Oil with highest lignans (that's what it says on the label), and regular Melatonin. Miss Chloe weighs 14 lbs. She takes 3mg of melatonin twice a day and 1 tsp of flax oil a day. She also takes glucosamine twice a day for joints. She loves her meds in all natural applesauce or fat free cottage cheese. However, she will only take the flax oil with some peanut butter or tuna as it, of course, is oily. The vet also recommended a low residue diet.
Let us know what is happening.
Carrol & Chloe

Okay ... I see you got it right here. I need to read the threads from beginning to end, not the other way around!:rolleyes::o

[Bichonluver3]

Yup, am giving the flax hulls. Chloe has done very well on her regime and Dr Oliver says that because the results were so quick (2 weeks), I should continue on the flax hulls, melatonin and low residue diet. I also added glucosamine for her joints and ocu-glo for her slight cataract. He said he didn't think any other supplements were necessary. I could not believe he answered so quickly!
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Everyone!
Have not been here in a while as had surgery but now am fit as a fiddle! Chloe has been taking her melatonin and flaxhulls for 6 months now and seems to be doing fine. However, I remember someone saying these pups should have a repeat panel done at 6 months to actually see how effective the treatment has been. I notice that sometimes her tummy seems very "tight" but then softens up again. Also, last night, for the first time she peed in our bed (thank goodness for rubberized mattress covers :o! She has been more restless than usual during the night but it has been VERY hot here in the desert. Thoughts....?
Thanks, Carrol & Chloe

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Carrol,

No thoughts to add, but wanted to say that I'm so glad you're feeling better and surgery was a success :D

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Jane! My son, who is a Navy helicopter pilot, was deployed to Guam and hopes to visit your beautiful country in December.
Carrol

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Carrol,

In a email to me, 6 months is what Dr Oliver recommended for me to wait to get a redo for Harley's UTK panel.

Re; Chloe's peeing accident, is she having these often? Is she licking her private area? Any odor or blood in her urine? This just might have been a one-time thing or she may have a UTI...just a thought.

Glad you're feeling better too and that your surgery was a success. Please keep us updated.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Lori!
Thanks for your email. The peeing has just been once but I will watch her. We go to the vet tomorrow for, hopefully, another blood panel. Am anxious to see how we are doing.
Love,
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

I made this a separate thread because, for some reason, my original thread was asking about diet and I didn't want anyone to think this was the issue.
Chloe has been doing well on her melatonin and lignan for 6 months but recently, I have noticed things that really are worrying me.
Her hair loss has increased and now she has a skin problem. She gets these little "wart-like" growths (mostly back & neck) which erupt which leave dark debris all over the area. When I clean that area, you can see a crater type lesion which is raw and open. I have been washing the area off and applying animax cream (antibiotic) to the lesions. anyone else had this problem? I think she needs oral antibiotic as well.
We had a UT repeat panel done a week ago and the vet is to call me on Monday so we can go over the results. He will, no doubt, want to see her.
Otherwise, no recurrence of the other symptoms.

Moderator's Note: Carrol, I have merged your new thread for Chloe with her original thread. We really do prefer that all posts for a pup are on a single thread as it makes it easier for other members to refer back to the pup's history. I have also modified the title to indicate Chloe's current skin problems.

Debbie

[Casey's Mom]

Hi Carol - I believe Angela - Sabre's mom had a similar problem with her dog. She may be on shortly as she is in New Zealand. I do recall other members with skin issues that sound similar - hopefully you will get some feedback shortly.

Hugs,

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Ellen.

[labblab]

Carrol, I literally have only one minute to post, but take a look through this recent thread, and see if Mocha's skin problems are similar to Chloe's...

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2550

I'm so sorry she's having these problems!

Marianne

[Bichonluver3]

Chloe has been doing well on her melatonin and lignan for 6 months but recently, I have noticed things that really are worrying me.
Her hair loss has increased and now she has a skin problem. She gets these little "wart-like" growths (mostly back & neck) which erupt which leave dark debris all over the area. When I clean that area, you can see a crater type lesion which is raw and open. I have been washing the area off and applying animax cream (antibiotic) to the lesions. anyone else had this problem? I think she needs oral antibiotic as well.
We had a UT repeat panel done a week ago and the vet is to call me on Monday so we can go over the results. He will, no doubt, want to see her.
Otherwise, no recurrence of the other symptoms.
Carrol

[Harley PoMMom]

Carrol is Chloe displaying any other symptoms like increased thirst or does she seem to be running a fever?

Calcinosis cutis can be caused by excessive cortisol but it can be caused by other things too like leptospirosis.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-3164.2005.00476.x/abstract;jsessionid=6410B383C0A3AC374A2EED44AFA0EC 27.d01t01

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Lori!
No, she doesn't seem to have other symptoms. She has been doing some coughing - not a lot - and it is allergy season here in the California desert. Her tummy seems a little larger but that has happened before and then it has gone down a bit. I washed the areas really well last night and applied Animax antibiotic cream and the real "angry" red around the lesions has gone down and the lesions appear to have scabbed over. Wow - it's amazing how everything gets us in a panic!
Carrol

[Sabre's Mum]

Hi Carrol

I was busy last night so did not have a chance to post to you. My first gut reaction is that it may in fact not be calcinosis cutis but maybe some other skin issue. Has Chloe had allergy problems in the past? Flynn, our 16 month old vizsla has been on high doses of pred and azathioprine which is now reducing ... he occasionally gets little lumps on his body due to his immune system being suppressed ... he can pick up infections quite easily!

A little about calcinosis cutis ...

From my experience, Sabre's calcinosis cutis started off as "waxy" looking raised areas .. some almost spider like ie not totally round in form but an irregular shape with branches off it. Some were just irregular in shape. They were slightly firm on touch ie did not appear to have fluid in them. These erupted in an irregular pattern - more like broken skin which in turn weep.

In the past I have always said that calcinosis cutis is definitive indicator of cushings … I may have to reword my statement. From Wikipedia this is what they say: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcinosis_cutis)


Calcinosis cutis (or cutaneous calcification) is a type of calcinosis wherein calcium deposits form in the skin. A variety of factors can result in this condition. The most common source is dystrophic calcification, which occurs in soft tissue as a response to injury. In dogs, calcinosis cutis is virtually pathognomonic for Canine Cushing's syndrome.

There have been five reported cases (which I have found so there may be others since the last reported case which quoted the other four) for other reasons for calcinosis cutis ... 3 cases associated with blastomycosis, 1 case with leptosporosis and one case with the rare paecilomycosis.

So as you can see these "5" cases are extremely rare and I wouls say that generally "calcinosis cutis" points to cushings.

Does it sound like to calcinosis cutis to you with my description above? Or more like another skin issue?

Angela and Flynn

[apollo6]

Dear Carol
I am going through the same with Apollo. He gets these liaisons on his body, I squeeze out pus and grey little debris like hair. He has a big one on his but. I apply aloe /witch hazel ointment on it. I think it is a cushing thing.
I just feel once our fur balls have cushings, the skin and coat are not the same . Apollo's under belly in half dark and half pink. I am always looking for new liaison's to pop up. It never ends. On the positive side, some of his fur has grown back, and he seems happy.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Sabre's Mum]

Carrol

I just remembered something .... has Chloe had any injections lately? Sabre's calcinosis cutis was all triggered from a vaccination. His first area was directly where the injection site was.

Angela and Flynn

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Ladies!
Thanks for the replies. The little bumps look almost like warts and feel like it. They are pink and some of them look like little warts joined together. They then burst and there is all this dried black stuff on the skin. When you clear that away, you can see the raw area. Chloe has had allergies but never these lesions before so that is why I figured it was part of her Atypical Cushings.
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

OK Folks:
Here are the latest values from UT:
Cortisol 72.0 (normal 2.1-58.8) 187.1 (normal 65.0-174.6)
Androstenedione 1.45 (normal 0.05) 5.06 (normal 0.27-3.97)
Estradiol 92.2 (normal 30.8-69.9) 88.7 (normal 27.9-69.2)
Progesterone 0.70 (0.03-0.49) 2.24 (normal 0.10-1.50)
17 OHProgest. 0.36 (normal 0.08-0.77) 2.13 (normal 0.40-1.62)
Aldosterone 35.8 (normal 11-139.9) 254.7 (normal 72.9-398.5)

These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity.
Comments: Values are increased as indicated. Consider items 1 through 5 on the treatment option sheet attached. the melatonin implants reportedly have a better coat response than oral melatonin.

These were her initial values done 6 months ago

TEST BASELINE NORMAL POST ACTH NORMAL
Cortisol 73.6 (2.1 - 58.8) 144.6 (65.0-174.6)
Androstenedione 1.58 (0.05-0.57) 4.01 (0.27-3.97)
Estradiol 94.6 (30.8-69.9) 79.1 (27.9-69.2)
Progesterone 0.7 (0.03-0.49) 1.9 (0.10-1.50)
17 OH Progesterone 0.42 (0.08-0.77) 1.36 (0.40-1.62)
Aldosterone 126.0 (11-139.9) 159.3 (72.9-398.5)

These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity (mild - moderate)

COMMENTS: Values are increased as indicated. Deviation from reference ranges vary from marginal to moderate. Although estradiol may contribute to clinical signs, it is not a good-specific indicator of adrenal activity.

Any comments or suggestions appreciated! NOW I'm getting worried.:(
Carrol & Chloe

[Bichonluver3]

My vet just called. Apparently he called Dr Oliver to go over the results and options.
Dr Oliver was not worried about the values. He says we just need to look at the lesions. He said to increase the melatonin from 3mg twice a day to 4-5mg twice a day and to leave everything else as is. Now I just have to see if I can get capsules that are 4 or 5 mg.!!
Dr L. also wonders if they may also be due to allergies as it is high allergy season, for people & pets, here in the desert.

[lulusmom]

Hi Carrol,

Thank you for posting the results of the latest UTK panel as well as the prior panel, which makes it a lot easier for us to compare. Cortisol has definitely gone up and the intermediates have followed suit. You reported that a lot of Chloe's symptoms got better with the melatonin and lignans but since all adrenal hormones have gone up, I am a bit perplexed as to why you would see improvements when treatment has not had any affect. Aside from the hair loss and skin problems, is Chloe showing any other symptoms?

I know that Bichons can be prone to skin problems so can you tell me if Chloe's has had problems in the past or is this something new? If she's had allergies in the past, was she ever treated with prednisone and if so when? The wartlike growths you mentioned sound like subaceous adenomas, which I understand are not that uncommon in older dogs 10 to 14 years old, nor are they uncommon in Bichons. Has your vet done a biopsy to determine what is going on? Hair loss is not uncommon with allergies, especially if the dog is itchy. Have you noticed any change in pigmentation where the hair has fallen out? Does the skin appear to be crepey or thin?

At this point, I'm not really sure what is going on with Chloe but I will reiterate that melatonin and lignan treatment is a crap shoot. According to everything I've read, it is effective only 40% of the time. With the increase in cortisol, it is possible that Chloe, like others here who were initially diagnosed with atypical, will eventually have typical cushing's and will require Lysodren or Trilostane to effectively control the disease. If the level of increase continues at the same rate over the next six months, the next acth stim test will tell the tale.

I'll be looking forward to more information.

Glynda

P.S. I forgot to mention that you shouldn't have any trouble finding 5mg melatonin at most health food stores and probably drug stores as well. Just make sure you get the plain old melatonin, no fast acting or timed release formulas.

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Glynda.
Chloe has the pot belly but no other symptoms since we started the melatonin/lignans.
I believe you are right - the Doc did mention subaceous adenomas a while ago. Yes, she has had them before but not as severe and he had prescribed the antibiotic cream and they seemed to clear up. I have started to apply the cream and they do look a little now. Some are "cauliflower" shape and when they open and are cleaned out, they look like little craters. I'll soon be calling her moondoggie":rolleyes:
Her skin does not appear thin or crepey to me'
I will try the increased melatonin as Dr Oliver suggested and hope that works without making her too loopy.
Now that we had a downpour yesterday, maybe some of the allergens have been washed from the air and we can determine if allergies are playing a part. I will watch her carefully and post any changes.
Thanks, again, for yaking time to give me your input. I really value your opinions!:D
Carrol & Chloe

[lulusmom]

Carrol, has Chloe had skin and allergy problems before? Was there any possibility that she could have been on some type of oral or topical steroidal treatment when you started noticing symptoms? I'm trying to understand why the panting and the voracious appetite improved despite continued increase in all adrenal hormones. :confused:

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carrol,

Squirt has the subeceous adenomas and they worried me to pieces when she first started sprouting them on her neck. Her vet in TN checked them out, sent off samples to the lab and got the diagnosis. She said they were nothing to worry about unless they started bleeding, then those may need to be removed. She said these rarely become malignant and even when they do, it rarely spreads out like other cancers can. That was over a year ago and Squirt now has them on her back and sides as well as her neck. They don't bother her but I do check them to see if there have been any changes - like one starting to bleed.

Here is a link that gives some pretty good info on them plus has some pics that are identical to what Squirt has for you to look at.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_sebaceous_gland_tumors.html

Hope this helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Leslie!
Yes, I think that is exactly what Chloe has. She seems to have a lot on the back of her neck. She has had the occasional one that has bled but I just zap it with animax cream and it heals up.
I guess I am just a worry-wort. have increased her melatonin so will see what that does.
Thanks,
Carrol

[lulusmom]

Carrol, how long have you been treating with Animax? This topical cream contains a strong corticosteroid, Trimcinolone Acetonide, which can cause iatrogenic cushing's. This takes me back to my original question. Were you using an oral or topical medications for Chloe's skin/allergy problems when you first noticed the symptoms associated with cushing's. If you were applying Animax when either UTK panels were done, the results would probably be skewed.

If Chloe truly has atypical cushings, you need to ask your vet for an alternative treatment without steroids.

Glynda

[StarDeb55]

Along with what Glynda has posted about the Animax have a strong steroid as one of th ingredients, here is information about possible side effects of long term use, I have bolded the important part:

What are the possible side effects of Animax: Side effects associated with this medication are related to the individual ingredients. Side effects following the use of injected or oral corticosteroids include increased thirst and urination, vomiting, diarrhea, and Cushing's syndrome following prolonged or repeated steroid therapy. Discontinue use and contact your veterinarian if sensitivity to neomycin, which may cause redness, irritation, and swelling occurs. Continue the medication and talk to your veterinarian about any side effect that seems unusual or bothersome to your pet.

Debbie

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks Deb!
Good point. Will talk to Doc tomorrow as I had Sparky to see him today for increased peeing and drinking. You know what I thought......Well, Mr Sparky had glucose in his urine so we had blood drawn and will know more tomorrow. I can't believe this. I am so depressed..........:(
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Good point, Glynda. thanks. i will check when he calls tomorrow about Sparky (and that another whole story:()
Carrol

[addy]

Some how it will all work out. Try to go back to baby steps. It might not be as bad as you think. Fear of the unknown can be overwhelming.

[Bichonluver3]

Not good news with Sparky:(

[addy]

We are here for you

Love,
Addy

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Addy!
Came home from vet's last night with Chloe and there was bright red blood in her urine on her pee pad! My husband is beside himself with worry and i think I need a bushel of Valium:eek:
Carrol

[addy]

Gosh Caroll, I can't believe it either. Are you sure it was in her urine and not from one of her sores somehow? That probably is a dumb question, I am grasping at straws.

Hugs,
Addy

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Addy!
I would like to think it came from there but, since it was on the pee pad mixed with urine and my husband called me at work to tell me there was more when she peed today.........:(
I hope he got her to the vet today. Why do these things happen at the start of a w/e??

[Bichonluver3]

Just heard from husband at the vet's. vet says she couldn't get urine sample (I can get 1 at home) but since she is a cushpup, she is starting her on 2 weeks of clavamox. Let's keep all fingers and tails crossed!!!!!
Hugs back at ya'
Carrol

[Harley PoMMom]

This does sound like UTI...did hubby try to get a urine sample?

Harley will NOT pee for the techs at the vets, I don't know why :confused: I always have to take him outside at the vets office to get a urine sample.

Hoping the clavamox takes care of that UTI and keeping you and Chloe in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi Carrol,

I'm just following up on my question regarding Animax. Was Chloe being treated with Animax or any other topical or oral meds containing steroids when she was diagnosed with atypical cushing's? I keep asking this question because if steroids were involved during and after diagnosis, it's possible that the symptoms you saw were caused by the medication. A dog taking steroids, whether topical or oral, is predisposed to UTI's.

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Glynda!
No, she was not on any steriods before her tests. Only used minimal amount weeks ago for open subcutaneous lipomas.
Vet thinks that because she is a cushpup, she is predisposed to UTI's.

Hi Lori!
Nope - they didn't get urine sample. Miss Chloe is VERY particular and will go on her pee pad (when she doesn't feel like going outside:rolleyes:) so I turn the plastic side up and she goes like a charm and voila! my sample! will do tomorrow. Chloe has done well on clavamox so I hope ot does the trick.

[AlisonandMia]

She isn't actually having trouble urinating is she? Another possibility is a bladder stone - which could cause bleeding and which could conceivably cause a blockage.

Alison

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carrol,

Stones or crystals was my thought, too, when I read about the blood in the urine. My Crys had struvite crystals and she would bleed from time to time because the tearing in they cause in the urinary tract. But Ruby had a very bad UTI once that caused her to bleed, too. Both are scary to see!

Hope the ABs help and she is feeling good soon!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[StarDeb55]

I turn the plastic side up and she goes like a charm and voila! my sample! will do tomorrow.

Carrol, this is not the ideal way to collect a urine sample for a culture & sensitivity. The pee pads aren't sterile, so who knows what is on them. If the urine were to grow any bugs, how would you know that they were really from a UTI, & not the pee pad?

Debbie

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Deb!

That was my thought too so I placed a stainless steel pan that I had boiled under her and got it that way (and I had to be real sneaky.....and FAST!!):D

[Bichonluver3]

She has no trouble passing urine and she doesn't appear to be in any discomfort. Also, no more blood since we started ABT.

[addy]

Finally you have some good news!!!:) Hoping the antibiotic will take care of it and Chloe will be fine.

Give sweet Chloe a big hug from me and Zoe,

Addy

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks so much, Addy!
And double bonus - no more blood in the urine and the Clavamox is healing the sores on her back & neck like magic. Will not use Animax again!!!!
Hugs back at ya'
Love,
Carrol
PS. That picture of Zoe is soooooo adorable. Chloe & Zoe - sounds like a team!!!

[lulusmom]

Hi Carrol, I noticed on another thread that you have Chloe on a low residue dog food. Which brand is it? Not all low residue foods are easily digested as some have corn as an ingredient. A lot of dogs, including one of my own with chronic colitis, do not tolerate corn well. My Buster used to have chronic colitis, including room clearing gas, until I took him off of all grains.

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Glynda!
She was on Iam's Low Residue. Then it was recalled (the kibble). She has been on Science Diet ID kibble with some low residue canned. She seems to have liked the low residue kibble better and her poops were so teeny-tiny and no gas:eek:
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Vet (not our regular since he was away over the w/e) called to say Chloe was growing all kinds of stuff as well as showing a large amout of WBCs and RBCs (no kidding - you could see it in the urine!!).
The Clavamox seems to be working well. This vet suggested plain cranberry extract but did not specify an amount in her voicemail. Any thoughts on this for 14lb Chloe?
My regular vet call yesterday to see how both his "babies" were doing but I missed his call. He left voice mail that said he will touch base today. I will also ask him about cranberry.

[Bichonluver3]

BTW, my regular vet said today "No cranberry right now". Urine Ph was 6.0 so we want to see how she is after her course of ABT.

[addy]

Hi Carrol,

Hope Chloe continues to improve with her antibiotics. How is she doing with her increase in melatonin? You can always buy 1 mg tablets too, that was how I started Zoe. It is an extra pill but I wrapped it in soft chicken breast so Zoe was more than happy to take an extra one;)

Hugs to you and the Bichons,

Addy

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Addy!
Thanks for your reply. Chloe seems to be doing better and the burst subcutaneous cysts seem to be healing up as well.
It is hard to tell the effect of the increased melatonin while she is on the clavamox (1 1/2 weeks more to go). We could not find 4 or 5 mg. capsules here but was going to look online. Your idea of 1 mg is a good one because then I could go up or down as needed.
I empty the melatonin capsule, a Cosequin capsule, flax hulls and now crushed clavamox into a little wet low residue canned dog food and she goes wild, jumping in the air & dancing around!:D
Thanks for the suggestion.
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Glynda - Chloe is back on Iam's low residue with a bit of the canned.

[lulusmom]

Hi Carroll,

I am not a vet or vet nutritionist but it is my understanding that prescription low residue food is a temporary diet until a dog that has experienced intestinal issues recover. Has your vet prescribed low residue food for the rest of Chloe's life?

In my opinion, Iams Low Residue food may be fine in the short term but in the long term, I think it's a poor choice, as there are many commercial foods that are much better. I personally am repulsed by the ingredients in this food but I've had my own dog on this food and Science Diet Low Residue temporarily when he was having chronic colitis problems. Nutrapet's California Natural foods are geared for sensitive stomachs and a lot of dogs with digestive problems do quite well on it. The quality of this food is far superior to any of the prescription diets and this is the food I buy when I have a rescue puppy or an adult with intestinal issues. I personally would try this food before keeping any of my dog's on a prescription diet, unless it was absolutely necessary.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1780&cat=all

[Bichonluver3]

Wow! Thanks, Glynda, for the info. I think he was just trying to be easier on her digestive tract while we are clearing up her bladder & skin problems. I will DEFINITELY look into your suggestion. Is it a good choice for Grover, my one & only healthy dog? How about my diabetic dog? He is on WD?
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

I checked out Nutrapet's website. The thing about pet food is that they include "by-products:eek:
Iams does contain chicken as the 3rd ingredient but I'm not sure what that mean (what part of the chicken. Doesn't any food have just plain ol' good meat?

[littleone1]

Hi Carrol,

I wish I could offer you some advice on commercial dog foods, but I've always cooked for Corky, using low fat ground beef, chicken, and ground turkey. I don't really trust the commercial brands.

[lulusmom]

Hi Carroll,

There are a lot of crappy dog foods that contain by-products but there are a lot of good quality dog foods that don't. California Natural does not contain by-products. I provided a link to www.dogfoodanalysis.com website previously so be sure to check it out. They rate dog food on a scale from 1 to 6, 6 being the best. I believe any food that contains by-products are rated a 1.

California Natural is fine for Grover but I would ask the experts at k9diabetes if it is okay for your diabetic furbaby.

[Bichonluver3]

Is this Nutrapet California Natural? I went to the link but when i looked at california Natural, the comment were that there was inadequate meat content. am I looking at the right product?
Chloe also looks to me as if she is gaining weight.
Carrol

[lulusmom]

Hi Carrol,

Yes, you were looking at the right food....Nutrapet California Natural. You will find that the good quality foods that are geared for allergies and digestive problems are rated a 4, which is still pretty good. I can guarantee that there is a lot more meat content in California Natural than there is in Science Diet or Iams prescription food. It is better quality protein and carbohydrates and no controversial fillers. Another good food for allergies is Natural Balance Duck and Potatoe, also rated a 4. The prescription diets are rated a 1 for good reason. :eek:

You may have an easier time finding the Natural Balance. Petco and most pet food stores carry it. Petsmart does not.

[addy]

Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance also has a venison or a whitefish canned. I remember looking at it for Zoe when IMS first suggested putting her on Hills perscription WD for her colitis. I declined because of my experience with the Hill's ID.

You could look at those as well but if memory serves me, it was the canned not the kibble.

Hugs,
Addy

[judymaggie]

Carroll -- My Abbie (non-Cushings beagle) is currently eating the California Natural Grain-free Lamb. They came out with the grain-free a short while ago. Nutrapet was bought out by Proctor & Gamble this past June. I buy Abbie's food from a regional distributor who lives near me -- I trust that he will tell me when the product stops being made in the Nutrapet facilities as I don't trust P & G at all and neither does the distributor! I don't use any other P & G products due to their animal testing so am a little uneasy with the dog food; however, Abbie is thriving and I don't want to rock the boat just yet. If I was starting a new dog on food, I would look for something else. Just my two cents!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi ya'll,

Natura Pet Products was bought out by P&G. NutraPet makes supplements, vitamins, ect. and seems to independently owned, located in Englewood, NJ. while Natura is located in Davis, CA. :confused: Confusing, huh? To add to that there is apparently a feed named Nutri-Pet by Amway.

The former Natura brands that P&G now own are:

Innova
EVO
California Natural
Mother Nature
Karma Organic
HealthWise

P&G also owns Iams and Eukanuba...both of which have had recalls this year. Colgate-Palmolive bought Hill's Science Diet in the '70s from the Morris', which was the start of it's decline in quality.

I am with Judy in that I fear what P&G will do with the Natura brands. If they are smart, they won't change a thing but $$ is usually the bottom line with these conglomerates. :(

Just my 2 cents worth, too! ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[Bichonluver3]

Today I noticed a round hard lump under Chloe's right fore leg. It can easily be moved around and does not seem to bother her. Any ideas? maybe I should take her to the vet's on Friday when Sparky goes to have his glucose done.....if it's not one thing, it's another:(
Carrol

[addy]

Hi Carroll,

Gosh, and I was just thinking about you, wondering how Sparky is doing.

Sorry to hear about Cloe's bump. Someone had sent a photo of Calcinosis Cutis, I thought, I can't remember who's thread it was. :o

Hopefully someone else will remember:)

Hang in there. did you get the food sorted out?

Hugs to you and the Bichons,
Addy

[Bichonluver3]

I almost threw up when I really looked at the ingredients in Hill's. No wonder Sparky looks at it and walks away!!:eek:
I have looked at the other brands (thanks, for your suggestion:)) and will have a heart to heart with the vet on Friday. No wonder all our pets are getting sick. I'd get sick too eating that stuff!! What can we be thinking??
Carrol

[Casey's Mom]

I don't know if I would rely on your vets advice for food and I only say this because some of them sell food so have a vested interest in promoting a specific brand. The link Glynda gave you for Dog Food Analysis is great. Most of us have done a lot of our own research regarding what to feed our pups because you really do need to be careful.

Hugs,

[Bichonluver3]

You know, Ellen, I think you're right. I think I will do my own food shopping from now on :D
I'm going to go over all the suggestions again and look at all the ingredients. What do you bet I'll decide on something and my picky eaters won't eat that either. :(
I need to find something that all 3, including my diabetic pup, can eat as they tend to "make the rounds"!
Carrol

[addy]

Hi Carrol,

You can get free samples from the Honest Kitchen. Not sure how cost effective it might be for 3 pups but you can mix it with kibble and they have different levels of food. If you email them they will send you samples if you ask. You could ask if any of their diets are good for diabetic pup. They answer questions and try to help.

www.thehonestkitchen.com

Koko is 16 pounds and eats not quite 1 cup per day. 1 pound of their food makes 1 cup. I used to feed him honest kitchen and California Natural kibble. I then switched to all Honest Kitchen Embark.

Zoe get about 1/4 cup of the Embark with her raw patty. I like it because it is warm, you mix it with water, let it sit for 5-10 minutes and feed.

Just a thought.

Hugs,
Addy

Hugs,
Addy

[jrepac]

the bump is likely calcinosis cutis if it is ABOVE the skin, not below it. It can arise as a dark, blackish lesion, which may/may not be problematic. You have to be sure not to cut it, as it can become infected...I had that happen accidentally during grooming! But, have your vet take a peek. Usually, if not infected, they cause no harm. Sometimes, you get lucky and they go away...I've had that happen, but not always. I found milk of magnesia, applied topically for a few weeks, tended to reduce their size, but would not necessarily eliminate them entirely.

Jeff & Angel Mandy

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Jeff,
I just posted on your thread! Hope you are doing okay (I know it is hard) and I appreciate you checking in on us. Had a look at Mandy's pictures. What a precious baby!
Chloe's sores on her back, according to the vet, are sebaceous glands that fill up and burst open. Ugh:eek:. She was on Clavamox for a UTI and they all cleared up although I know they will come back. My diabetic Sparky has a similar situation but his do not burst, thank goodness.
I will definitely try your MOM suggestion.
My love to you and your sweet angel.
Carrol

[Bichonluver3]

Well, here we thought we were doing so well. I think Chloe's tummy is getting bigger and the fat deposits too. She is now on an organic diet, 1/4tsp flax hulls and 6mg melatonin (twice a day). She still is her pert little self but is finding it harder to run and play with that big belly. Suggestions?
Carrol

[addy]

Hi Carol!!!!

How are the pups???

Glad to hear Chloe is doing well. How is Sparky?

I was so glad to see you posting. Sending best wishes to your house.

Hugs,
Addy

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Addy!
Thanks for asking about the kids!
First of all, thanks so much for the heads up about Embark. All the pups love it. My vet is really great. He is one that is not locked into Hill's Pet Nutrition products. He actually went over, in detail, (on his own time) all the Honest Kitchen products and said that Embark was a very good diet for Chloe (Cushings), Sparky (diabetes) and Grover (just a rascal!). They also love the new whitefish blend. I do add a tablespoon or so of Evo 95% wet dog food and give all meds (except insulin, of course:D:D) in the Evo.
Chloe continues on her melatonin and flax hulls although Dr Oliver suggested an increase to 6mg twice a day due to skin eruptions. Her skin cleared up just fine, thank goodness. Wish I could do something to get rid of the pot belly:( but can't complain as she is still perky for an old gal and dances around her food bowl. Her appetite has increased slightly (I think it is due to the fact she likes the taste) and she looks in everyone's bowls for leftovers. The Ocu-Glo is working well and her beginning cataracts have almost disappeared.
I have a houseful of people this weekend as my youngest son (a Navy helicopter pilot) returns to Guam on Tuesday after a month's leave. we will probably not see him again for another year. Because of all the commotion, Spaky has not been eating as he should be - too distracted - but have still been giving him his 4 units of insulin and he seems to be okay.
Grover is in his glory with all the company and takes turns sleeping in different beds!
How are things at your house? How is little Miss Zoe? I still think Chloe & Zoe sound like a Vaudeville act!!
Love, Carrol

[addy]

Hi Carrol,

I thought I might find you over here:) Hope things are okay.

Love,
Addy

[Bichonluver3]

We just got Chloe’s numbers back from UT. There apparently was insufficient blood to do post ACTH. I would think that was an important number to have. Should I have tech take more blood and send it? But, that would mean keeping her for four hours and injecting her again. Should I just wait for 6 months?
Am not sure what these numbers over 3 panels mean. In the new results, there was no interpretation or recommendations.

MAY, 2011
Cortisol 78.5 QNS
Androstenedione 2.17 3.51
Estradiol 72.6 60.9
Progesterone 0.63 2.25
17 OH Progesterone 0.34 1.73
Aldosterone 92.4 310.5

COMMENTS: (Follow-up) Compared with previous test (Oct. 10/10), the number of abnormal values decreased from 9 to 6.

OCTOBER, 2010
Cortisol 72.0 (normal 2.1-58.8) 187.1 (normal 65.0-174.6)
Androstenedione1.45 (normal 0.05) 5.06 (normal 0.27-3.97)
Estradiol 92.2 (normal 30.8-69.9) 88.7 (normal 27.9-69.2)
Progesterone 0.70 (0.03-0.49) 2.24 (normal 0.10-1.50)
17 OHProgest. 0.36 (normal 0.08-0.77) 2.13 (normal 0.40-1.62)
Aldosterone 35.8 (normal 11-139.9) 254.7(normal72.9-398.5)

COMMENTS: These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity.
Comments: Values are increased as indicated. Consider items 1 through 5 on the treatment option sheet attached. The melatonin implants reportedly have a better coat response than oral melatonin.

APRIL, 2010

Cortisol 73.6 (2.1 - 58.8) 144.6 (65.0-174.6)
Androstenedione 1.58 (0.05-0.57) 4.01 (0.27-3.97)
Estradiol 94.6 (30.8-69.9) 79.1 (27.9-69.2)
Progesterone 0.7 (0.03-0.49) 1.9 (0.10-1.50)
17 OH Progesterone 0.42 (0.08-0.77) 1.36 (0.40-1.62)
Aldosterone 126.0 (11-139.9) 159.3 (72.9-398.5)

COMMENTS: These results indicate presence of increased adrenal activity (mild - moderate)

[littleone1]

Hi Carrol,

I hope things are better with you.

Chloe's pre stim test does appear to be on the high side. I personally would want to know the post stim results. You don't have to have a full adrenal panel done. Your vet or IMS can do the stim test. That only takes an hour. They send the test to a local lab, and you could get the results the next day or the following day.

[Bichonluver3]

Thanks, Terri. i will ask vet.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Carrol,

With the other hormones coming down (with the exception of the progesterone which went up 0.01), I would guess the cortisol has dropped as well but without the ACTH you can't be sure.

Can you remind me how much Lyso Chloe is getting and how often?

On a personal note, a thank you today to you and your son for his part in fighting for our freedom. It is because of moms like you that men like him exist and that my grandsons have a real chance at life in the Land of the Free.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bichonluver3]

Thank you, Leslie, for your "Thank You". It means more than you know and I will pass it on to my son.
Chloe is only on Melatonin (6mg twice a day) and flax hulls (1/8tsp once a day).

[Squirt's Mom]

Well, I'm a dunce! :o I was thinking you had started her on a maintenance dose of Lsyo not too long ago. That's what I get for not looking back, huh? :o

Ok, since she is NOT on Lyso, then I would certainly want to know where the cortisol level. From the Ap. '10 test to the Oct. '10 test, all her values went up including the cortisol. From Oct. '10 to May '11, everything has come down, other than the 0.01 up on progesterone....OH! and the aldosterone has gone up, too. I missed that earlier. :o Before starting the maintenance dose of Lyso, all of Squirt's values were rising with the exception of estradiol. The melatonin and lignans seem to have worked for that hormone but couldn't control the others. Chloe's values are coming down, pretty much, across the board from what we know right now. I would want to know what the cortisol was if I were you.

Are you seeing any more or stronger signs than you were?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Hi Carrol,

Sorry to hear you are still feeling under the weather. How is Miss Chloe feeling?

When I take Zoe to her IMS for her UTK adrenal panel, she is not there for four hours. It takes an hour. Iget a pre and post cortisol reading as well as all the other hormones.

FEEL BETTER.

love,
Addy

[addy]

Hi Carrol,

I am hoping your machine has been delivered and you are finally sleeping. Sleep deprivation is not good. I have insomnia, so I know first hand.;) When my insomnia kicks in to high gear and I don''t sleep for a week, I simply can't cope with anything.:rolleyes:

What happened to Miss Chloe? Did you redo her stim? I hope Sparky is okay.

Remember when I asked you if the Zeal smelled and you said yes? Well, I think my allergies are affecting my sense of smell because when I mix up Zoe's small two tablespoons and let it sit for 10 minutes and come back, I actually think it smells like a human dinner:rolleyes::rolleyes:

And no. I have not tasted it yet:p:p:p:p:p

Love,
Addy

[mytil]

My 14 year old Cush girl, Chloe, has been controlled about 4 years now on ground flax hulls and Melatonin. Recently her Cushing's symptoms increased. She had a low dose dex done and based on the results now requires Trilostane. She is a small bichon that weighs 14 lbs and the vet is stating her tomorrow on 10mg twice a day. What can I expect by way of results? Will her hind legs become stronger now that she will be able to develop muscle?


Admin note: this is a copied post of Carrol's from another location.

[Squirt's Mom]

FYI, Trilostane has been shown to increase the intermediate hormones so it is not the recommended treatment from UTK. For pups who already have elevations in the intermediates, UTK recommends Lysodren in addition to the melatonin and lignans. ;)

[Roxee's Dad]

I am very sad to announce that Chloe has crossed over to the Rainbow Bridge at 11:00 am this morning. Carol also wanted to let all our new cush parents know that Chloe lived to almost seventeen years old after being diagnosed with Cushing's many years ago so it is not a death sentence and their babies can enjoy many years with their families.

"Please keep Chloe in your thoughts. She was my special angel on earth. I could not have survived Ari's death without her. Now she needs to be with him. Her 2 fur brothers are devastated."

Rest in peace sweet Chloe... Tonight you are our newest and brightest star in the sky....

[frijole]

Carrol, So sorry to hear this news but dear Chloe did live a long happy life surrounded by love and furry siblings. May memories of healthy happier times sustain you as you heal from your loss. RIP sweet Chloe and run free of all pain. Love, Kim

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet Chloe. She has joined our other fur angels at the rainbow bridge. Run free sweet girl, run free! xxxx

[doxiesrock912]

My sincere condolences on Chloe's passing Carol.

[goldengirl88]

I am truly sorry that your baby has passed. The others will help her across the bridge. Run free sweet Chloe. Blessings
Patti

[Peety's Fur-mom]

So very sorry for your loss. I have not posted before, but read your thread. I feel your loss as I lost my Peety 1 week ago today. I know my Peety will welcome her and they can run free together. God bless you.

[beaglemom3]

My deepest condolences on your enormous loss ;(

[Woodydog]

I,m so sorry to read this, Run Free sweet Chloe

[molly muffin]

Carole, I was very sorry to hear that sweet Chloe had passed.
Sending you huge hugs and much love and support.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[addy]

Oh Carole, seems like only yesterday we were hiding in the hills, wearing our matching red sweaters. Susan and I always miss you and your wonderful sense of humor.

Chloe and Zoe, we called them:):) May Chloe fly high and free, run like wind, sweet Chloe.

My heart was so sad to hear the news of Ari and wished you had not had to bear that pain. No one should have to.

We will always remember you and the three Bichons. Rest in peace sweet, Chloe.

[littleone1]

Carrol, my dear friend, I am so sorry to hear about Miss Chloe. She had a wonderful life with a very caring, loving mom. She will be missed and always remembered by many of our cush family. I know she and Ari were happy to see and be with each other once again. Corkster was also there to greet her.

My heart is breaking for you, and and my tears are flowing with yours. (((((HUGS)))))