Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

[littleone1]

Hang in there my friend. Don't beat yourself up. You're doing what you feel is best for Zoe.

Are you considering increasing Zoe's dosage to 15mg, or are you going to keep her on the 10mg?

Take the night off and just relax. (((HUGS)))

[addy]

Thank you Leslie and Terri,

I think I am worried that she has super adrenals and I am going to have a time of it. I had hoped that if I got her down between 7 and 9 I could allow her cortisol to run a bit high and keep her there. Now I am worried that I won't be able to and she will just creep right back up again over 9. I did not see this one coming as she seemed fine. I was worried her stim was coming back at 10 and then what would I do? I did not expect her back up again like last time.:eek:

Look at the history:

she was 44 ug/dl in January we did not retest before starting Vetoryl in June.

10mgs took her down to 7.7 pre 11.2 post after 10 days
at 30 days she was pre 9.9 post 16.9

raised dose to 15mgs which took her down to 5.8 pre 9.9 post after 14 days.

now retested 14 days later and here we are climbing again 6.4 pre 14.9 post

so we go to 20mgs tomorrow. she will probably go down to 6 or 7ug/dl in 14 days which I would normally take but I worry she is just going to bounce right back up again after the next 14 days.

My point is she keeps dropping and then starts going back up.
Can anyone explain that?

[frijole]

That is bizarre. And I have been living bizarre so I know. ;)

Couple of questions.. did you ever have an ultrasound done to rule out an adrenal tumor? Could there be a non adrenal illness that is causing the fluctuations. Remember Annie had 5 false positives on the acth so they aren't golden. Maybe something else is causing the cortisol to rise? I hope others chime in with thoughts.. this is interesting... and frustrating. Hugs, Kim

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

Corky's cortisol level has kept fluctuating. Everytime his dosage has been increased, his level goes down, and increases in time. He started with 20mg a day, and then went to 25, 31,40, 51, 60, and now 72. His IMS said that it's harder to control the cortisol level when there's an adrenal tumor.

If Zoe hasn't had an U/S done, I would definitely have one done to see if there is something going on with the adrenal glands. Hang in there. You're doing a great job of caring for your precious Zoe.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are doing the right thing. Zoe has enough issues which you are on top of so going slow is okay. Like me , you are so overwhelmed with all that is going on in your life , you have one hose(you) to put all the fires out. Apollo was off the TRilostane last year from November through March, his cortisone went up again, but he is still here after putting him back on it. You are so on top of it that you are stressing yourself out. We are all going through this.
Sometimes I worry if I gave Apollo his pill because I am giving him other supplements for all the other organs and his immune system, some are once a day, others are twice, different dosages. Sometimes I just stare at the container I put it all in and hope I haven't forgotten something.
My dear friend you are your worst enemy.
Remember the add I earn the bacon, cook and clean it . Well I can't do it all anymore. And to top it off we are dealing with this awful disease. When is the next check, when do I change to dosage, what else is going wrong, etc. We all need to give our selves some slack. We are great Mom's and Dad's to our fur balls and they know it. Ya for all of us.:p
All we have is one day at a time. Enjoy every simple part of it. Enjoy the little miracles we still have with our furballs.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

Sonja is right! It seems we can ALL see what good care the others take of their fur babies, but are most critical of ourselves. It is terrifying to have to make decisions which really seem to be crap shoots most of the time. There is no magical fix for this and so many variables. You know Zoe so well and you continue to make good decisions for her. Don't second guess yourself. Had you have increased too fast, you may have had an even bigger set back by upsetting her colitis. Sometimes the numbers aren't the whole story, either. If she is acting and looking better, you ARE going in the right direction.

As for her numbers going up and down...can they develop a tolerance to the drug?

Hang in there!

[addy]

She had an ultra sound done and it showed no tumor. I am thinking she has super adrenals. Her cortisol was sky high to start, like Renee's Snoppy.

I think she is going to have to go to twice day dosing to try to keep that cortisol in check. I have thought about this all night. I'll hit her with the extra 5 mgs once a day this time because that should bring her down again and then when it starts to climb again I will have to add a dose in the evening I think. We are finally at a hair over 1mg per pound. I think any further increase may need to be added at night.

What do you think? I may just email Dr. Allen but I am guessing he is going to tell me to go to twice day dosing. I am a bit worried I maybe should have stayed at 15mgs am and done 10 in the pm. I was afraid that was too much for her.

IMS will most likely not be there in 2 weeks and will have to start with a new one:(:(:(

Yes Sonja and Mary Beth, too many fires to put out right now, not just with Zoe.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Love ya,
Addy

[marie adams]

(((BIG HUGS))) I think it might be time for a group hug also!!!

Hang in there like everyone has said you are the worst on yourself--you are doing a great job!! :p But there are so many variables. I would think I had Maddie in the right direction and darn if those numbers would change even when we didn't do anything different. At the end I thought I would have to increase her dosage again, but her numbers came down even though I thought there wasn't a change in her symptoms, but at that time it could have been the cancer.

When was the last time she had a blood panel done to check everything else now that her numbers are down?

Please take care of yourself so you don't get sick with everything you are doing!!!!:o

[addy]

I emailed Dr. Allen, have not heard back yet. I am like a dog with a bone, I'm afraid:rolleyes::rolleyes: I can't let go once I get started.

I just want someone to explain why she drops and then starts climbing back up right away like within the next 2 weeks she is already climbing higher, does not wait for the next 2 months.:eek::mad:

Yoooohoooooo Marianne, yooooooohoooooo Marianne:):):):)

Thoughts on this so I can give it a rest?

Bullheaded Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I hope you hear back soon. These Doctors really need to get back to us right away!

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

Yep Snoopster has the Super Adrenals for sure. It has been a roller coaster with her as well. I think you have done well with the consertative approach. Snoop has had added stress, like Zoe does, which messes "with the mix" so...your gut is of real benefit.

You keep doing what your are doing....the proof is in the "pooding"!

Love,
Rene & Snoopie

[MBK]

Hi, Addy -

I just read on your post about the outdoor dining - what a COOL idea!!! I could take my angel dog, Alivia, to something like that but Maxwell - NO WAY! :cool: But, then I always think it's unfair that one gets to do something fun and the other doesn't - so I would end up doing something different with both of them together instead, anyway!

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
I don't know how, but I thought you were already splitting the dosage of Trilostane. Our vet had us divide the quantity right from the start. The idea is to keep the level more consistent and not have things going up and down all the time. I hope this doesn't muddy up the waters for you.
I'm packing (or am supposed to be.)
BEHAVE YOURSELF!
Love,
Sus

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are on the right track. This disease is a mystery. Something new pups up all the time. In my case Apollo losing strength in all legs.
Remember there are other worse off. You are doing a good job.
In my case Apollo is still on once daily TRilostane, like you I wonder if he should go to twice daily but his numbers are with in range. So I am still on the 10 mg, I mean Apollo is . Shows you how whacked out we get.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo
I could just picture the outside dining with Zoe and Koko.:p

[addy]

Thank you guys.

All and all I am pleased with Zoe's progress, don't get me wrong. I just did not understand why her cortisol keeps popping right back up right away. I naively thought that I would slowly get it down and it would stay about that level for awhile and then a new dose would bring it down some more and we would keep chipping away at it and then maybe later on in a few months it could drift back up.

It did not occur to me that it would be this yoyo thing of up and down each month.

She is having a bit of the yuckies withdrawal the last two mornings on the new dose but then perks up later in the day. Maybe we are getting close to the dose she needs to control her cortisol better.

Still did not hear back from Dr. Allen. Last time he answered me promptly. Maybe he is on vacation now.

Have a great weekend!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[Cyn719]

Addy - I had a minute to try to catch up on Zoe - so you are having the same problem finding the right dose of trilo too - It is really hard - also as you know I spoke to Dr Allen then we were emailing back and forth and he was answering quickly then the last email he never answered me - that was the end of the week - maybe his days off or vacation??? Hope we can get these doses adjusted!!!! Hang in there - we are doing our best!

[marie adams]

I am popping in for a quick Hi and have a great rest of the weekend!!!

[addy]

Hi Guys,

Zoe is still feeling yucky on the new dose and her colitis is starting up today, nothing horrible, just the start of the tail, mucus, softer consistency. She ate dinner with her usual gusto and went for a minnie walk tonight but she is off from her behavior last week. Her eyes are bright and clear, her gums look fine but she is tired and moving slowly and when she lays it is in that position she did last December when her colitis was bad.

Tonight I will call it her colitis and give her an extra metronidazole and tomorrow reassess in the am. Perhaps her cortisol has come down further into range. Maybe it is both. We went through this that first week we started.

She was perfectly fine at 15mgs but for some reason the 20mgs not so good yet.

We are hanging:):):):) or maybe they say chilling now:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Love,
Addy

[jmac]

Hi Addy,

I hope Zoe is feeling better soon. My non-Cush dog, Izzy, has a very sensitive stomach and seems to have at least one horrible diarrhea outbreak per year, so I know that is never fun. I pretty much panic when I don't have the Metronidazole on hand. In fact, she had an episode the weekend of my wedding! That will be three years ago in Sept., but I was up with her all night the night before-letting her out, picking up the soiled potty pads on the bedroom floor, cleaning the carpet where she had missed. I was at the vet at 8 a.m. THE DAY OF MY WEDDING! They couldn't believe it. I will never forget it. It's funny now, but sure wasn't at the time.

Anyway, I am so lucky that this isn't a regular issue with Iz. I know you've been going through a lot, so I hope your little girl will be feeling better soon!

Hang in there!

Julie & Hannah & Izzy :D

[addy]

Hi Julie,

I LOVE the wedding story:):):):):):) I bet it was not fun but I'm glad you can look back and laugh now. It is a great story.

Miss Zoe is much better today, thank goodness for metronidazole!!!!
I have to keep an eye on her but I feel much relieved this morning. She still is slower than she was but I am hoping that is a sign for now we are on the right dose finally.

Enjoy your day!!!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm glad to hear Addy is starting to feel better! :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Glad to hear Zoe is a bit better this morning! :):cool:

Remember that the dropping cortisol can make them feel pretty bad until the body adjusts to having less of it. I'm betting you are right and you are just seeing some withdrawal right now.

Keep up the good work!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Thanks Leslie,

We also think her hearing is going so I have to factor that behavior in to the equation. It seems more pronouned the last week or two; before it was subtle things she did made me wonder. I did not think about it too hard as goodness knows she used to fall into such a deep sleep when we first got her, she did not even hear me come in the house sometimes.:rolleyes:

But the last couple weeks, I don't think she can compensate anymore. I will have IMS check her ears next week. She does not paw at them or shake her head. She has never had an ear infection since we have had her.

Hubby is distraught. I think it may be just one ear. I will do some more simple tests tonight.

Hugs,
addy

[marie adams]

I bet you just wish you could have a week or even a day you do not have to worry about something. I hope she is just having selective hearing and it will get better--maybe there is a build up of something and it is fixable...:o

I am glad she is feeling somewhat better today--Yay!!!

Oh, and the gray hairs....isn't that what coloring is for....:D Of course who has time to take care of it.....I need a fix and hopefully it will be this week.

Take care!!;) Best thoughts for you always!!

[addy]

What do we know about hearing loss and Cushings? So far all I have found is the possibility the pituitary tumor is a macro and that could lead to hearing loss.

Hugs,
Addy

[littleone1]

Hi my dear friend.

I don't know about hearng loss wth cushings, but Corky lost his hearing quite awhile ago. I noticed it when he was diagnosed with cushings, but he's also had numerous ear infections.

I hope Zoe is doing better. Give my niece lots of belly rubs from me.

[jmac]

Hi Addy,
I don't know anything about Cushing's and hearing loss, but I feel like Hannah's has gotten significantly worse in the last couple of months. She did have a couple of ear infections about 3 & 4 months ago, which I did treat with Tresaderm, so I don't know if that has something to do with it or not. She is old too, but it seems like it got worse fairly quickly. I'm going to cross my fingers it's not because of a macro tumor...

Julie & Hannah

[Rene]

Hi Love,

This has been a question I have repeated since last December with no answers.

Snoops sufered sudden facial nerve paralasis with sudden deafness and could not blink her left eye and still cannot properly which lead to her eye surgery! The left side of her face drooped and food fell from the left side as she chewed. The left side of her face is still droopy and she sleeps with the left eye open and has dry eye issues.

I quesioned if it was a bulid up of ammonia in the blood, stroke, macro, you name it and can't get an answer. I checked out the ear infection possibility, twice, and nothing there but a foxtail once...no infection.

She is stone deaf now. Intermittented rapid twitching at the apex of her ear on the effected ear, left side.

I wish I had the answer too as to what is happening so I can ward off or prevent but, I can only speculate and worry.

Love You,
Rene & Snoopie
(Super Adrenal Cousins)

[addy]

Julie, I did not mean to scare you. We think Zoe is nine years old so that seemed young to me for hearing loss. Maybe it is not young for hearing loss or maybe they estimated her age wrong and she is older than we think.;);););) I used to joke when we first adopted Zoe that she was five going on nine when someone asked her age:D:D

Terri, thank you for your input. It just threw me because I did not expect that at this stage of the game. Threw me a curve ball.:eek:

Super adrenal cousin Renee;);):cool: I knew what happened to Snoops and I knew her UTK panel was sky high like Zoe's which is why I started digging for an answer to a possible connection.

I also rechecked metronidazole. All I could find was that it may cause ringing in the ears in humans but it was unknown if it was toxic to the ears as some of the other antibiotics are. The only other med she takes is the Vetoryl. I wonder about the metronidazole. I have a call in to the vet.

Thank you all for your input. I had a mini meltdown yesterday cause hubby was so upset.:(:(:(:( So then I got all upset. Not so much about her losing her hearing but more about fearing the unknown and why it happened. Maybe she is older than we think, my Zoes.

Hugs,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

Hi Addy, I don't have any answers for you about the hearing loss but I wanted to say that I think that my Nika may be a bit older then I was told, when we rescued her. She was in bad shape so she was smaller, and so the age guess did make sense at the time. Maybe it is the cushings that has been ageing my Nika the last year?, I don't know. So hard to tell when we rescue. What bothers me most is that it means I just might not have as much time with her as I originally thought/hoped :(sorry, I am babbling :o
I hope you get some answers from the vet today about your Zoe.Oh how we worry about our babies.
Many hugs coming to you and your Zoe,
Lynda and Nika

[addy]

So hard to tell when we rescue. What bothers me most is that it means I just might not have as much time with her as I originally thought/hoped sorry, I am babbling

Lynda, bothered me alot at first too so I fully understand the comment. Go ahead and babble away, I love babblers:D:D:D:D:D:D
By the way, did I tell you Nika is a beauty???

Have a great day,
love,
Addy

[Nika'sMom]

thankyou for understanding my babble:)...and for encouraging it too:D....I just may take you up on it:D...It was just before my Nika's cushings diagnosis that we thought she might be older, so I am still having a difficult time with that thought...I am trying not to though. I guess so much to soak in in the last few months. Being able to come here helps me the most :)...Thankyou for the wonderful comment on my girl..I think she is too:D..I am so lucky that she found me..

Still hoping you learn more about your Zoe soon!

many hugs from Lynda and Nika

[Cyn719]

Addy Penny also has hearing loss which did not seem to be a problem until like 8 months ago which was when we started her meds so it could be the cushings in Pennys case or her age 12 in november -- this disease does seem to age them quicker --its never cut and dry - its a guessing game for sure!!!:confused:

[addy]

Thank you Lynda and Cindy,
Zoe is going to a traditional vet tomorrow to have her ears checked. IMS thought it best to make sure she does not have an infection (I doubt that she does, but who knows?). IMS wants it done early enough before her stim next week Wednesday so stress does not affect her stim.

So, off we go to meet the new vet tomorrow morning. He supposedly is comfortable with Cush dogs:):):):) The old vet was not:(:(:(:(


We really need a BIG SIGH icon;););)

Hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Good luck with the new vet. Did you see the sticky on the diabetes forum warning about an ear medication that might cause deafness?

if you have options and she needs medicine, you may want to avoid this. http://http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260

hugs to you and Zoe

[marie adams]

Off on another adventure--new vets--don't you just love how we have to hop around. I have even done it with Miss Ella--on number 2, but I would go back to the last one--just hate the waiting. I have to finally get her her Rabies shot and hopefully the Lyme on too.

Good luck at the vet and I hope it is something curable for Zoe!!!!:D

[Cyn719]

Fingers and paws crossed that its something simple!!:) I know nothing is simple with our cush pups!!!! ;) But we can hope!!!! :D Let us know!! Good Luck!!:)

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

Just thinking about you and Zoe and wondering how things with the new vet today went. I hope you like him. I also hope you are wrong about the hearing loss and are overreacting (like I tend to!).

Anyway, your both in my thoughts and anxious to hear about the new vet. Will check in later tonight.

Take care!

[Squirt's Mom]

Anxiously waiting with the others!

[addy]

Hi,

Zoe liked the new vet. She was so good with him. He and I got off to a bit of a rocky start but then things smoothed out. He could not find anything wrong with her ears but she did have some wax build up so he flushed her ears out and wants to wait to see if that improves things. We discussed it was possible it could be her pituitary tumor as she seems a bit young to start having age related hearing loss and he agreed she appeared to him to be 9 or 10 years old. I mentioned she had some trouble with this dose change and her colitis flared a bit. I put her back on 62 mgs twice a day for now as I did not want to lose control and she just acted unwell. Since she has been on the metronidazole BID she is acting much better.

He thought maybe I should have left her on the 15mgs for a few months regardless of that 30 day stim.We discussed why I started treatment because it seemed to him she was not that sick yet. I told him her hind leg weakness worried me and her other symptoms were starting to get worse and Dr. Peterson thought it best.:confused::confused:

She may have some water in her ears for the rest of the day. She seems fine at the moment and had a perfect poo. Hubby thought she was hearing a bit better.:confused: I am not wrong about the hearing loss. She could not hear me come in the door yesterday and I was one foot away. She looked in the wrong direction when I called her name.

Only time will tell about her hearing I guess. IMS said it wasn't from her Cushings and I did not want to pick a fight about the tumor possibility with her so let it go the other night.

Thank you for caring Leslie and Mary Beth. I have a really bad headache so feel not so good.

Love,
Addy

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

Sorry you are not at your best. Hope your feeling better now. I know it can be stressful not getting answers.

Sometimes it seems Snoops hearing comes and goes but it seems mostly she is stone deaf. I think her little nose is "Super Sonic"! :D

At least Zoe got on well!

Love,
Rene & Snoopie

[jmac]

Hi Addy,
I'm glad to hear things went okay with the new vet, and sorry to hear that you don't really have any answers, and that you're not feeling too well yourself.

I know Hannah is older (12), but I also noticed a significant hearing loss in the past several months. She also sometimes looks the other way or goes into a different room (if she hears me). She also doesn't seem to see very well and sometimes doesn't even see me until I am a few feet in front of her. She has had eye problems (lots of scratches and ulcers) throughout her life, and she is old, but it did worry me a little as they both seem worse recently. I also wonder if I am just more sensitive to everything because of the Cushing's so I notice EVERYTHING more than I would have pre-Cushing's.
Even with her being 12 it still makes me a little nervous.

I hope Zoe will end up hearing better with the wax gone, and if not, that there is nothing seriously wrong with her. I hope you're feeling better soon, as well.

Take care,
Julie & Hannah

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

Did it ever occur to you that Zoe might just be ignoring you? Just kidding! :p I know Alivia sometimes intentionally ignores me if she suspects she is getting a bath or medicine!

Well, sometimes no news is GOOD news. If the vet felt there was nothing wrong except for some wax, maybe there isn't. Remember, last week I was convinced Alivia had calcinosis cutis when it was actually just age spots. :o I think we sometimes expect the worse. Try to relax and see how she is for awhile.

Hope you are feeling better!

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy - Oh I feel your stress for sure!!! Been there many times as you know and still never a solid answer!!! It is very frustrating - no wonder you are not feeling so well tonight - Rest and regroup tomorrow - Maybe Zoe will seems alittle better in the morning after her ears have dried - it is so confusing for sure! - Penny does the same thing sometimes she looks the other way when I call her - sometimes she hears me come home sometimes she doesnt!! - If I sneeze she jumps up so fast I think shes going to hurt herself or the other day I dropped a spoon and she almost has a heart attack!! The vet said that is because she does have hearing loss and she is hearing everything different now - so it makes sense - now that shes down to the 10 mg a day she is of course more alert - didnt sleep much at all and I swear she heard better today - maybe just wishful thinking?? Feel better soon - then we will talk - always here - I am a night hawk for sure!:D:)

[apollo6]

Dear sweet Addy
You sound like the tired warrior. I feel the same about Apollo, how long do I have. I try to stay in the now. This whole thing sucks:mad::(
Thinking about you and Zoe.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Rene]

Addy,

I don't know if this even helps but I thought I would put it out there. Zymox "Three Point Enzyme Systems" makes Otic Enzymatics Solution. They have a Hydrocortisone Free version of it too. I used it when Snoop had a yeast infection, but is good for other things besides infections like tinnintis, ect.
http://www.entirelypets.com/zy1hyfr.html
Worth a look?
Rene & Snoop

[addy]

Thank you all, Renee I will check out the solution once my headache goes away.

I don't remember if I put Zoe's pills in her food this morning:eek: I think I spaced out and forgot.:rolleyes: oh well, maybe I can see if she hears better without them:p:p

I think adding a new person to Zoe's team is throwing me for a loop. I feel some confusion and am unsettled a bit. She sure did like him and was so good with him. She likes men vets better than lady vets. They handle her with more confidence and they always tell her what beautiful eyes she has so she falls for it:p:p:p:p:p I'm kidding of course, but she does respond to calm,confident men.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone, I'll be back when I get rid of this headache. I have to get ready for round two on Wednesday, stim again. Waiting for her poo to stay really good, it has been up and down a bit with the colitis tail and softer here and there. I guess I keep up the flagyl BID until her stim.

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy dear,

So sorry you have a headache. :( They can really mess up you day!

This isn't going to help, either....but thought this might be worth considering.

Metronidazole ototoxicity--report of two cases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10474673

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

It was the first thing I looked for, I did not see this report when I searched I just found "unknown " and that there was a report of causing ringing in the ears in a human.

Discussed the drug again with new vet and he said at low doses he is not concerned with it. :confused::confused::confused:

Thank you Leslie for finding for me. And she is back on it BID again:(

Where is that BIG ICON SIGH????;);)

Addy

[Cyn719]

Prayers that you feel better soon!!! Thoughts and prayers also for the stim!!!! We are all on this crazy roller coaster ride that just wont stop!!:eek: Would be nice if we could all get some normal positive results!!:D Fingers and paws crossed!! :)

[addy]

The new vet said the only way we could tell for sure she has hearing loss is by conducting a special test. He did not see any sign of infection, the wax he washed out was not a lot but he said she has a lot of hair in her ears so it might have been just enough to bother her hearing. He agreed the behavior I mentioned could be Zoe showing a loss of hearing.

If I think back when I took her off the melatonin right before she started her Vetoryl, we had a thunderstorm and she shook and shook. After her cortisol dropped that first month she was no longer shaking at thunderstorms. I thought it was maybe because her cortisol was lower. Now I wonder if it was she could not hear them as well.

I know my dog and I know her behavior like a book and something is wrong with her hearing and it started when we dropped her cortisol. Now I just have to figure what what that meant to Zoe's hearing and why.

Thanks for listening guys and thanks for all the supportive posts:D

Leslie, maybe her body was pumping out so much cortisol it was helping with the side effects of the metronidazole and now it can't?

She is hearing better today. I'll go ring the door bell again and see if she comes. She has not been reacting to it at all.

Hugs,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

The hearing loss recovered gradually in a period of four to six weeks following withdrawal of drug and oral steroid therapy.

Hi Addy,

This is from the study of the two cases. I gather from this, the pups were taken off the Flagyl and given steroids, which helped. So I would conclude that the steroids were given to address inflammation caused by the Flagyl. If that is the case, then Zoe's cortisol would have been "treating" this inflammation and when it was lowered, the inflammation continued unabated. Of course, we have no proof the med is playing any part in her hearing loss but I thought it was definitely worth thinking about. ;)

When I was reading about ototoxic meds, I kept coming across Tinnitus. I often experience this with TMJD and can tell you it does interfere with my hearing as well as being most unpleasant.

Wish I had more to offer. :(

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[apollo6]

Just a quick hi. Glad Zoe is doing better. Remember one day at a time.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

[QUOTE=addy;

We really need a BIG SIGH icon;););)

Hugs,
Addy[/QUOTE]

AND a warm heart icon!:)
-Love,
Susan

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
It sounds like you've had a really rough week and I am sorry. :(
I tried for 1-1/2 years for someone to tell me what was wrong with Palmer.....and the distended stomach. Time and again they came back with this "tolerant" smile and said....it's just weak muscles. Like you, I knew that was not the right answer. Somehow I learned about Cushings and then things started to be treated correctly. It is SO annoying when it seems the "experts" are not listening to you or are not taking you seriously.:mad:
I also completely understanding wondering how much time there is. I kept asking Palmer to please make it to 15 years....it was not to be. They do get down into our hearts unlike anything else.:cool:
I hope your headache is gone. I think you need some Blue Bunny ice cream...you're probably in withdrawal!!:rolleyes:
Does Zoe play in the pool? Maybe you could play toss the ball or something. It will be cooler soon, so your pool days are probably numbered....and you just got it set up for this year!!!
I hope things are going better for you.
BIG hug, and lots of them.Love,
Sus

[addy]

I hope your headache is gone. I think you need some Blue Bunny ice cream...you're probably in withdrawal!!


OMG Susan, I can't stop laughing, thank you so much for this belly laugh!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I have tears in my eyes.:p:p:p:p:p

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Glad you had a laugh. We all need some once in awhile.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Rene]

Yes...but she really avioded the question at hand....hmmmm!:D
Headache...Brain freeze from a Blue Bunny assualt?:eek:

[addy]

Renee I could benefit from brain freeze:p:p:p I wish I could freeze it;);) There would be added benefits to that:D:D:D

I am having my usual sinusitis:mad::mad: It has been too frequent this year.

We left the pups for awhile and went to see the tall ships. We were hoping to go out on Lake Michigan on one of the three but they were sold out. It was still nice to see them out on the lake and glide into the harbor. AND I scored some really cool earrings from the fair they had.:D:D:D The kids came over for an evening barbeque and all in all it was a no Cushing day which we all need.

Round three hundred and twenty-five this week as we go for her stim Wednesday. Her Bun was up a bit two weeks ago but creatinine was normal. Her hearing never really improved much except for that day after I thought I forgot to give her Vetoryl.:confused:



I hope you all have a great week,

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm glad you took a "non-Cushing" day Addy, you needed it! Good luck on the test this week

Judi

[Bailey's Mom]

"Brain freeze"
I found out something cool this summer. If I am having something that will cause brain freeze, and if I can eat it by spoon, I just turn the spoon upside down when I put it in my mouth....that way it's the spoon hitting the roof of your mouth. I finished off a Rita's Ice in no time flat....and it used to take me over 1/2 hour, what with brain freeze.
Best wishes om the test, Addy. I know how apprehensive that can make one....waiting.
Love,
Susan

[marie adams]

I don't even need to eat something to have brain freeze--I have it all the time when I try to spell words.:eek:

I love hearing about have the kids over and the barbeque. I feel like we are always doing something and don't take the time to relax.:rolleyes:

You are doing such a great job with Zoe and I know it wears on you to have to do all these test and count numbers--figure out the medicine for this and that, but you are doing a GREAT JOB!!! Pat yourself on the back--PLEASE!!!:D

HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEK!!! SMILE!!! ((((HUG))))

[ThreeJacksMom]

Just stopping by to say hi and I hope Zoe's test goes well.
Thinking of you,
Lauri & Sassy

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy - Just checking in - glad you are having a few better days!!:) Praying all goes well on Wed for Zoe - kisses hugs and a big wet lick from Penny!!:p

[addy]

Thank you for checking Lauri and Cindy,
up until yesterday, I would have thought her cortisol would be within range and on the lower end of the range. Yesterday and today, if I had to bet I would say it is going up again:rolleyes: She becomes more active and animated, playing more. Maybe her tummy feels better. The last 2 stims, the one when she was 9.9, she was very calm waiting the hour for the second draw and I said to hubby, her cortisol is lower than last time and it was. The last stim she was not as calm while we waited and I said to hubby her cortisol is higher and it was at 14.9 I hope I am wrong this time.;)

Right now she is rolling in the towel I used to dry my hair:D:D She loves damp towels:D:D:D:D:D She will even try to pull them from my head:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I will discuss the metronidazole and her hearing with the IMS but my guess is I will get poo pooed.:(:(:(

Wish I knew if I could use Slippery Elm with Vetoryl.

Looking for some brain and allergy freeze:D:D:D:D:D:D Maybe some Blue Bunny would do it:D:D:D:D:D

Hugs to all,
Addy

[marie adams]

Addy you are pretty good at judging Zoe's numbers. I could tell by how Maddie acted sometimes if they were higher. I hope they are where they should be for Zoe to feel good and you not to worry so much--remember--worrying turn hair gray and gives more wrinkles:eek::eek:!!

Hopefully, the IMS will give you good answers for the hearing--hello, aren't the hearing part of the ears internal--:o Just kidding, but I really do not see why they cannot figure it out. I know some medicines can cause hearing loss, but I couldn't tell you which ones. We think when my mother in law was alive and taking soooo much medicine that is why she had such a hard time hearing.

Sometimes I would like an Ella Freeze--haha!! Allergy--well, I seem to be allergic to something and I think it is one of the vitamins I take each night--after dinner I can feel this heat rising in my neck and then one my arms--then I start to turn red and itchy; so I will have to take them away and start with one at a time--such a weird thing; I was never allergic to anything until this year.:confused::confused:

((((Bigger Hugs)))) for you and Zoe--I am not competing against you like on Susan's thread--hahaha!!!!:D:D

[addy]

Hi Marie,

She was very calm durring the test. The kids came over and stayed with Koko and Zoe fell asleep waiting for the second draw. She should below nine juding from her behavior durring the test but with th ear thing, it is hard to judge now.

Hopefully will have results later today.

Thank you for checking in and

THANK YOU FOR THE HUGS!! I FEEL THE LOVE:D:D:D:D:D:D

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
The thing to admire about our cushing babies, often times they don't know they are sick and will surprise us with the playful side. We all need to see that once in awhile.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Just checking in Addy - I was out most of today - beach!! -my dad and son had Penny duty today - I posted on my thread a little while ago about Penny :confused: - wow I feel like you do!! Well I will check in again later on today!! Positive thoughts:)

[addy]

Well, not so good news, post 12.7ug/dl. on 20 mgs once per day. She lost weight,back down to 18.5 pounds. She was post 14.9 on 15 mgs two weeks ago. It hardly moved.

IMS thinks it may be possible the stress from coming every 2 weeks for stims for the last 3 months may be contributing to her numbers. Not sure how the hearing loss plays in to that either.

Her poo was not good last night, not sure if she ate something or stress but it continues this morning and it had just gotten better.:( We are taking a 30 day break and leaving her alone, no more stims for a month unless a change in behavior.

It was that or change her to 20 mgs am and 10 mgs pm and push the envelope. I am not a fan of this idea at this point. I really feel Zoe cannot go on having stims every two weeks. Something has got to give here.

Will take it day by day for now. I am worried her cortisol will spike as she has been dropping and then going higher two weeks later. I just don't think I have any other choice right now with her colitis issue.

We solider on, sisters in battle but this warrior is tired today.

I admit to being terrbily disapointed in all this time we have not once brought her in to what is considered "controlled" range and I have no idea of the ramifications of that.

If some one has thoughts on all this, I would appreciate hearing them.
I am out of ideas and I am a bit fearful.

Hugs,
Addy

[Cyn719]

Addy so sorry the stim wasnt better - did you call Dr Allen just to let him know whats going on? I do feel that he has been helping us with certain things - I know how frustrating it is :(- we have been up and down so much with Pennys meds and just can not hit it right!:confused::confused:Take a deep breath girlfriend and take time to think it through and maybe consult with Dr Allen - he may help you to make your decision-- Always here for you and Zoe - you are both in our hearts and prayers everyday!! Kisses hugs and a big old wet lick from Penny to Zoe!!:)

[labblab]

Dear Addy,

I surely understand why you are feeling disappointed and drained!! I would be feeling exactly the same way. I am wracking my brain trying to make sense of Zoe's trilostane history, and I agree that that the pattern of test results is really puzzling. I'm cutting-and-pasting a summary that you had given us earlier:


From Addy:

she was 44 ug/dl in January we did not retest before starting Vetoryl in June.

10mgs took her down to 7.7 pre 11.2 post after 10 days

at 30 days [on 10 mgs] she was pre 9.9 post 16.9

raised dose to 15mgs which took her down to 5.8 pre 9.9 post after 14 days.

now retested 14 days later and here we are climbing again 6.4 pre 14.9 post

Added by Marianne:

raised dose to 20 mgs and post result after 14 days was 12.7

Zoe's peaks and troughs are definitely puzzling. But here's some random thoughts...

First, I hope it may be a comfort to keep in mind that at 20 mg. daily, Zoe is really only just now at Dechra's minimum initial dosing recommendation for a dog of her weight. So that means that according to Dechra's clinical experience, it would not be at all unusual if she were to end up needing a significantly higher dose in order to maintain clear and consistent control. So she may not really be so much of an odd-ball after all! ;)

What does muddy the picture in her case is that she started out with a lower result on just the 10 mg., and then kept pogo-ing even after increases were made. I agree that's harder to figure out. But even though the reduction this last go-around is not big (14.9 to 12.7), at least it still does represent a reduction.

I do wonder if twice-daily dosing might help in her case. Maybe maintaining a more consistent level throughout a 24-hour time period would be a plus for her. I'll be honest with you, if it was me, I really would be tempted to go ahead and add in that extra 10 mg. at night for a few days, just to see what happens. We know that you watch her like a hawk, so you will be on top of things if she were to react adversely and you could always stop. Or if you want to stay conservative, another option would be to just shift her current 20 mg. into 10 mg. morning and evening. Either way, as long as she is outwardly doing well and with your vet's approval, I wouldn't feel compelled to do another stim until maybe 30 days. You know I am very conservative when it comes to testing and monitoring, but Zoe has had so many stims now and looks to be at a very low risk of crashing right now on dosing changes of this type or magnitude.

I can't remember whether or not you've run her situation past Dr. Allen lately? Given her rather odd pattern of results, I'd really be interested in his feedback/suggestions.

I know it's hard not to feel down-hearted when you are trying so hard to help Zoe and the darn numbers are not cooperating. But you know, even more important than the numbers are Zoe's behavior and appearance. So I'd definitely factor that into the equation, as well. If she is generally doing well, I sure can't fault you for taking a month "off" and just leaving things status quo. But if she seems to feel better (and has firmer poop?) when her cortisol is lower, then maybe twice-daily dosing is a strategy to try?

Sending tons of hugs to you both,
Marianne

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I understand and am sorry for your concern. I want to second the vote for Marianne's suggestion to 10AM and 10 PM. If it were I, I would be going to the 20AM and 10 PM. As Marianne said, you are very, very on top of all that goes on with Zoe. If she has some sort of adverse reaction, you can always go back to 20....but I'd split it between night and day. I think with all our pups, if we can keep medications more or less level throughout the day that it is better for them.
Take comfort in knowing you are doing everything and beyond for Zoe. That is all you can do. If you are upset, she probably senses it. Enjoy your time with her when you're not working. Do the walks, etc. that you do with her.
I so wished Palmer could understand me so that he would know what was going on and how we were attacking it. I wanted to tell him how much I loved him. We can only do that by our actions....and I think they do know.
Be sure you are getting your rest. You don't want to come down with a cold or anything. You don't need that now.
YOU ARE THE BEST THING Zoe has going for her. E#njoy what is here and now to the best of your abilities.
And always.....always....come here to complain or not, cry or not and get a hug or twenty. We are all with you through this.:)
Love,
Sus

[addy]

Marianne, what happens when you treat a pup with trilostane and do not have them in the "control range" but allow them higher numbers?

I want to thank you and Sus for the input. I think if she had not lost her hearing and I was not feeling suspicious of the metronidazole and she was not having stool issues since we switched her dose to 20 mgs I would go ahead with the 20/10 and go for broke. Zoe has never been a typical Cush pup, her worst symptoms were always hair/coat, her colitis issues and hind leg weakness. Then the hunger escalated and the drinking started but was not bad. Well, her coat is worse, her tail is worse but she is happy right now and playing and bright eyed.

I have not told Dr. Allen these last results but after her prior stim I emailed him. He thought the pogoing was because she was not yet on the right dose and he thought I should not go to twice day dosing unless her symptoms were not being controlled at night. I could see what he says now after this last stim.

Right now, today, I want to get her colitis back on track. I want to cut the metronidazole back. I am fearful about increasing her dose and having to resort to even more metronidazole than I am already using since we already are having issues. Her poos were the best on the 15 mgs in that cortsiol range that whole month and right up to the 3rd day of 20 mgs. She flared as soon as I dropped her cortisol the first time, she is having a flare at 20mgs and I don''t want to risk it at 30mgs.

Maybe next week, Marianne, I can try your suggestion, once I see normal stool consisitantly and the metronidazole is cut back. My gut today is telling me to wait on the 30. I need to see if it is stress and how high her numbers go. Unless I see a drastic change in her I will wait a bit but I need and want to hear feedback.



Hugs and Love,
Addy

[rbeasl]

Addy,

I wish I could tell you something that could help Zoe out. I think it is a really good idea about the 30 days. I'm happy that Zoe is bright eyed and playful. It would be so much worst if she was looking sick and out of it. WARRIOR is the perfect word to describe you. You have been fighting since Day 1.... Zoe is so lucky to have you....Hung in there girl, the light will soon come on...

Take Care
Rhondalyn and Honey

[MBK]

Hi Addy.

Sorry to hear Zoe's numbers did not come down as much as you'd hoped. On the positive side though, at least they came down a bit. Little victories. I do remember reading several places that their coats sometimes get worse before you start seeing an improvement. Maybe that's what you're seeing. It sounds like a good idea to take a break from the stims and see how things go for awhile. Sometimes I really think less is more. Hang in there!

[addy]

Thank you Mary Beth,

I am not so concerned about her coat and tail as I know they get worse before better sometimes and she is not in the right range and I really don't know if her intermediate hormones factor in to that coat issue either.

I want to continue to nudge her up gradually but I only want to stim her once a month so she is not so stressed. I do not know if I can do that but that is what I really want here.

I will figure it out, just a lot to figure as I have never trusted the metronidazole for Zoe and I can't explain why, just a gut feeling about it and I saw side effects with her on the higher doses. I need some time to think it all through so if she is happy right now and she is 12.7 so be it for awhile;););)

Glad you were not flooded out:):)

Hugs,
Addy

[labblab]

Marianne, what happens when you treat a pup with trilostane and do not have them in the "control range" but allow them higher numbers?

...Zoe has never been a typical Cush pup, her worst symptoms were always hair/coat, her colitis issues and hind leg weakness. Then the hunger escalated and the drinking started but was not bad. Well, her coat is worse, her tail is worse but she is happy right now and playing and bright eyed.

I have not told Dr. Allen these last results but after her prior stim I emailed him. He thought the pogoing was because she was not yet on the right dose and he thought I should not go to twice day dosing unless her symptoms were not being controlled at night. I could see what he says now after this last stim...

Addy, given Zoe's GI issues, I think it is very reasonable for you to base your decisions as much on her behavior as on "the numbers." Everything is relative, after all. And even though you may never feel comfortable lowering her results into that prescribed golden zone, 12.7 is still a heck of a lot lower than the 44 that she must have been consistently running prior to treatment. The numbers are meant to be guidelines, and they do help offer an explanation if folks are still not seeing symptom resolution on any given dose of the medication. But evey dog is an individual with his/her own issues. So if Zoe ends up doing better long-term with numbers that are running higher, then so be it. If that means her coat and tail don't look great, so be it. I'll trade "happy and playing and bright-eyed" a million times over a great-looking coat. And I know that's what you are basing your decisions on, too -- what is best for Zoe, overall.

Having said all that, I also do understand Dr. Allen's rationale for holding off on the shift to twice-daily dosing since Zoe has yet to stabilize at any time of day within the "golden" zone. So in that vein, maybe another approach -- when you are ready -- is just to go ahead and raise her morning dose a bit more. Maybe not a full 10 mg. but maybe just up by 5 mg. again. I truly would think you could get away without stimming her for at least 30 days, given all of her past results. I would still be interested in Dr. Allen's take on things, now that you have these additional stim results to pass on...

Keep the faith, Addy!!!!!!! Zoe's bright eyes are the most important test result of all! :) :)

Marianne

[marie adams]

I think you need more (((HUGS)))

I wish I had more insight on the dosing, but I have none with this drug and not a long enough time period to go on. :(

I know you will do what you think best and Marianne is very helpful.

Enjoy your weekend!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are going through a lot. Wish I could give some good feed back. Dealing with Apollo's issues. Like you , isn't it supposed to get better?
I am baffled why Zoe's numbers are not better. I sometimes wonder is it the Trilostane? Apollo's skin an coat have improved but he still has the three large black/ patches with some hair. Or are we dealing with other complications.
I will be praying for you, dear friend.
Find one good thing to focus on to get you by.: Zoe and Apollo are still hear after a year.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you Rhondayln,Mary Beth, Marianne and Sonja,

I may shoot an email to Dr. Peterson as well. I will contact Dr. Allen next week once I see her poos are consistent again.

Zoe's cortisol was so high to start, higher than most of the other pups yet her symptoms were not as bad as some of the other pups. Her other hormones were high to start but then they came down on the melatonin and lignans.

Tentative plan- wait and cut back metronidazole, bump her 5mgs more SID, wait 30 days to stim and see where I am and discuss adding back in the melatonin and lignans after that and see what I get. The IMS covering for mine for 3 months came out of UTK so maybe she has a different take on all of this as well and won't be so paranoid of adding back in the melatonin and lignans as our current one is. I really never wanted to take her off them. We'll see where it all goes. Still getting used to her behavior not being able to hear.:( I know it probably does not seem like such a serious problem but it has been hard for me to see her trying to adjust with the hearing loss. I think Zoe and I both need to adjust to that right now.

I would of tried adding the 5mgs at night but don't think that may do anything for her since it is so low.

I'll see what Drs Allen and Peterson think.

[marie adams]

Hang in there my dear sweet buddy!!!

Remember we are stranded in Delaware in the non-basement pool with nothing to eat or drink.....:p

Enjoy the rest of your weekend!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

[QUOTE=marie adams;

Remember we are stranded in Delaware in the non-basement pool with nothing to eat or drink.....:p

Enjoy the rest of your weekend!!![/QUOTE]

If you can hang on a little longer, I think we will be there late this afternoon or early evening. :D
DON"T drink the ground water......it is salt water!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek:

I'll look for you both in the pool!
love,
s

[marie adams]

Addy,

Did MOM find us yet????

Happy Monday!!!

I hope you had a wonderful relaxed weekend!!! I love when you say it will be a good day when Zoe lays on your chest in the morning. Oh those special moments in the morning--the kisses and excitement of how happy they are to see you and you seeing them--who would think such a simple jesture could fill you with so much happiness...:)

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,



Because of the relatively short-lasting effects of trilostane, the ACTH stimulation test varies considerably with the time of testing relative to dosing. Because of the lack of this knowledge, early studies of trilostane showed clinical effects that were sometime discordant with the ACTH stimulation test results.

That was a direct quote from Dr. Ian K Ramsey's paper entitled "Trilostane in Dogs". Do you give Zoe her Vetoryl at the same time every morning? Were all stim tests after starting treatment done approximately the same time after dosing? The stim results usually show the time of the initial draw and the one hour draw.

Glynda

[addy]

Hi Glynda,
Zoe get her Vetoryl with her morning meal which is usually between 5:15 and 5:45am.
All the ACTH tests were done between 4-6 hours, the first 3 probably more like 5 to 5.5hours for the first draw and the last two more like 4.5 hours for the first draw. Our appointment is always 9:45 but sometimes they have an emergency or get to us a bit later.
She also gets her metronidazole 10 minutes after her Vetoryl which IMS okayed. I brought that up last week about could that affect absorption and IMS did not like that idea.
I am a bit worried because this morning she was acting like she always did which could mean her cortisol is going higher. I don’t really notice any difference. She is shaking her head more. I skipped the evening dose of metronidazole for three nights with not too bad of results. Her tummy is not flaking anymore but no new hair.
Emailed Dr. Peterson. Not sure if he will answer.

I am still waiting for all her actual ACTH test copies, have not received them yet. I will ask again. IMS was behind.

Hugs,
Addy

[Cyn719]

Addy - just checking in on Zoe - I havent been on since Sat - the hurrican got us Sunday morning and we just got the electricity, cable and telephone back ten minutes ago! Wow how much we appreciated these things when you dont have them!!! So I think your plan sounds good for Zoe - and if Dr Allen does not answer you call him - I sent him two emails and I didnt hear from him then I called and he said I dont always get to my email but call me anytime!! I know its hard to adjust to the hearing - it was hard with Penny also - she would go to the second floor on my sons bed when we went out and would be barking and running down the stairs when we came home - then after being on the trilo we would come in and I would have to yell to her that we were home!! - I dont want to totally blame the trilo but now that she is down to 10 mg she seems to hear better - glad Zoe isnt flaking on her tummy anymore!! It is hard to adjust to these changes - I understand - how is her eye sight?? Pennys is alittle off - said it was old age - how is is Zoe??? Well she is still sweet little Zoe with a mom who loves her dearly!!! It will take time but you two will adjust:) Hope you talk to Dr Allen soon!!! Keep me updated!!

[addy]

Hi Cindy,
I did hear back from Dr. Allen. I sent all the ACTH stim tests, told him how Zoe did not feel well this last increase for a good 12 days, etc.

He agrees with IMS that the next step is 20mgs am and 10 mgs pm. He thinks this way she can't rebound so fast if on twice day dosing and the increase to 30 is not hitting her all at once. He thinks because she was post 12.7 a 50% increase should be fine.

Have not hear back from Dr. Peterson but with the holiday weekend coming quickly, he may well be out of the country.


I just have to figure out when. She actually greeted me at the door tonight. First time in 3 weeks she knew I was there. I admit to being nervous about this one. Worried about her hearing it just seems a little better.:(:(:( ANd I just got her metronidazole dose down again.:(

I have some thinking to do.

Hugs,
Addy

[mypuppy]

Hi there Addy,
sorry to hear your sweet Zoe has been a bit off lately. I hope the new dosing will definitely help make a difference. If I'm not mistaken I believe someone mentioned the same dosing path for Princess next time around (depending on her stim numbers) and since she is still not completely resolved on the 10mg BID.

I wish you and Zoe much success and good health.

Warmest regards and tight hugs.

Xo Jeanette and the Princess:p:)

[addy]

Thank you Jeanette, I know you have had your hands full with Princess trying to figure out dosing. They keep us on our toes. Other than the behavior from the hearing loss and her colitis flare up, Zoe feels fine. Wait, that didn't sound too good did it?:rolleyes: I think the greeting at the door has to do with her hearing and her colitis is under control again. She is playing and happy.

This morning she did not come in to drink water and she walked, did not run, back to the house after potty break, she usually runs for her breakfast:)

That is the behavior I see when her cortisol is down around 10. I am going to wait a bit before I change anything.

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Addy: I am happy to see encouraging news for Zoe. fingers crossed that she continues to feel better!

Judi

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I am going through the same with Apollo. Not sure if it is when their cortisol peaks or dips. Zoe is doing the same as Apollo. Some days he can hardly walk, then he surprises me. This is such a hard disease to manage. prays for you both.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Sonja,

The peaks and valleys must be the cortisol going up and down. Several vets have told me the hormones have cycles even when treated and the pup's numbers go up and down. It is the only thing that makes sense.

I watched her today when I came home. She was trying to listen and saw Koko respond to me so turned to greet me and then shook her head as if to clear her ears. Perhaps she can hear something but is not sure where the sound is coming from. That is how it appears. The two weeks prior she could not respond at all. Perhaps she is adjusting to the hearing loss now and knows to watch Koko. Thank goodness she has him:):):):)

We will all adjust to it, we just need some time.

Thanks for stopping by. Zoe sends kisses to Mr. Casanova;););) and Koko still has his eye on Karma.:cool::cool:

Love,
Addy

[mypuppy]

I must agree with you and Sonja on the "peaks and valleys" theory. Today Princess was definitely at a peak which I hadn't seen in quite a while (probably since she was off meds and in remission of symptoms for 5 whole months). Today she was chasing after that ball as if she was the road runner. My daughter and I were amazed:eek:. We certainly do prefer the peaks in all this, don't we, and I am hoping Zoe will begin to have more of them soon, and little Apollo too.

Xo Jeanette

[addy]

Oh Jeanette what a happy time to watch Princess chase a ball. I love when they play and throw their toys in the air. I live for those moments.

It has to be the cortisol fluctuating. Sunday, Monday and Tuesday Zoe was chewing and drinking up a storm. :eek::eek: Yesterday and today the water consumption has dropped way down and I just scolded her for chewing her paw and she HEARD me because she stopped:confused:

AND we have not changed doses yet:confused::confused::confused:

I don't want to jinx her and I am almost afraid to say this but I will risk it. I see new white hairs growing on her tail.

We skipped her stim yesterday which IMS okayed and are giving her a month away from the vet. Maybe it will help her.

Almost Friday:D:D:D:D:D:D

[MBK]

Addy -

{whispering} So happy to hear that Zoe is showing signs of improving! Alivia will also stop licking her paws if I correct her....although sometimes she will go in another room so I don't see her! Just like kids! :rolleyes:

I think sometimes a break from the vet's and as much as possible everything is good. I really think less is more. I have Alivia on only the very basics and she is doing fantastic. :D

[marie adams]

Peaks and Valleys!!! You will take them either way. Maybe with Zoe shaking her head something else is going on and it is not a permanent hearing loss.....here's hoping!!!

When you describe the throwing toys up in the air it makes me think of Ella and all her energy running, jumping with her toys. You just want to squeeze them to death with love!!!:D

It is almost FRIDAY!!!! 3 Day Weekend!!! And I have next week off to do NOTHING!!!! YAY!!!!!

[Cyn719]

So glad Zoe heard you!!!!:) Maybe Marie is right maybe something else is going on with Zoe's ears?? But with Penny the less meds shes is on the better she hears??? Confusing little cush pups for sure!:D:confused: All I know is they keep us on our toes for sure!:D All we can do is what we do everyday -- love them - hug them - kiss them - smile at them - play with them - feed them - enjoy them and try to figure out what they cant tell us!!:) Its a 24/7 thing -- no one can ever doubt our love for our cush pups!!!!!:)

[rbeasl]

Addy,

I love to hear good news about Zoe and this is Great News about her hearing you. Sounds like the light is coming on...

Praying for continued success and happiness

Rhondalyn and Honey

[jmac]

Hi Addy,
I've been busy getting ready for a new school year so I haven't checked in for a while. I'm trying to catch up now. I'm glad to hear Zoe is doing a little better and that she has heard you a couple of times. It sure is a mystery and definitely is like riding a roller coaster with our pups, but the happy, good times are so rewarding.

Hope Zoe continues to do better!

Julie & Hannah

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
I am so glad to her Zoe is doing better. You and she deserve a break!!
Enjoy the long weekend.

Love,
Sus

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
It gives me hope when I hear Zoe is doing better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

It is Margarita Time!!!

I hope you, the hubby, Zoe, and Koko are enjoying the weekend!!!

[addy]

Oh, thank you all so very much for your encouraging words and support. Your posts bring such big smiles.:D:D:D

Today is the seventh day Zoe has only had metronidazole one time per day in the am. She snuck a crab apple outside with no ill effects. She is active and happy and last night totally blew me away by jumping on the sofa in the den OMG she has not done that since last November. I don't know if she will do it again but one time brought shocked smiles to me and hubby.:):):):):):):)

I don't know what tomorrow brings but today we live in the present.
I soon have to make a decision about her dose. Have been trying to put it out of my mind and just enjoy her for now.

Happy Labor Day!!!!


Marie- Margaritaville and DANCE,DANCE,DANCE;););););)

Love,
Addy

[jmac]

Hi Addy,

I feel like I'm right where you are-so happy with little things, like a jump onto the couch, or an uneventful stretch with no major problems. I am such a worrier by nature, and tend to end up focusing with what might be wrong instead of what is right, so I have really worked to change my mindset about Hannah. I try to focus on her mood-if she's happy, I should be happy, as well as the little things, like jumping up on the furniture. I am glad you put the decision about her dose out of your mind for a while. It's hard for some of us to do that, but I'm sure it made that time more calm and enjoyable for you.

-Julie & Hannah

[MBK]

YAY, ZOE!!!!! A jump on the couch AND a crab apple snack with no problems?! Good stuff!!
Enjoy her and the weekend!

[rbeasl]

Doing the HAPPY DANCE with you:)...... The little things are sooooo huge... I am so happy for you and Zoe.... I know this moment feels so good and I want it to last forever for you and your family....

Continued success and happiness

Rhondalyn and Honey

[apollo6]

Enjoy your labor day. Zoe go for it.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy - Hope you had a good Labor Day weekend!!! How is Zoe doing over the past few days? Hope well!! We are having alot of rain so Penny is so so right now - Rain till thurs! ugg! Fill me in when you have a chance!!:)

[addy]

Hi Cindy,

I heard about all the rain you are getting.:(:( Hopefully the sun will come out soon. I also hope Penny is okay. I was thinking you have a stim this week. Maybe I remember it wrong. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Zoe is fine. She has been running around the house tonight playing with her Kong just as happy as can be. We have made it over a week without the pm dose of metronidazole. She has a bit if a poo tail as a separate poo piece today but I am going to try to wait it out as long as her poos do not get worse. I have gone this far, I'm going for broke:D:D She is awake and alert when I get home from work. She is like she was before we did the 20mgs and she did not feel good.'

That is the part I still don't get. From the way she was acting I would have thought her cortisol was down. She just was not right those 2 weeks up until that day before her stim. She started acting a bit more normal and was up and about that day.

I am really glad I did not increase her dose back then because this time gave me a chance to reevaluate her behavior with the hearing loss. I don't notice it quite as much (the hearing loss)because she is more active.

Hugs,
Addy

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy - your remembered!!:) She is going tomorrow for her stim - I forgot to say that to you - I posted it on my site - glad Zoe is doing ok - see with these pups you dont know one day to the next!! One day I think Penny is perking up then a few days later shes down - but we will see tomorrow - she had a very very quite day today - kinda down - I posted that maybe its the rain and she misses Mike!:( She still is drinking normal - eating good - I just vaccumed up all her fur!!! so coat is gone - and yes that damm back leg is just so weak - she has so much trouble getting up - the vet will check her over tomorrow while she is there - cant wait for results!!!!!:confused: as usual!!:)

[Cyn719]

Sorry I hit submit before I was done - I feel like you I would think Pennys stim would be low cause she is sluggish but her drinking is good but blew her coat - but I get what you are saying - some days they act normal -- it must of been so nice for Zoe to be alert and waiting for you!!!:) Hoping she does ok with the POO!!! Always in our thoughts and prayers!!!!!

[addy]

Thoughts on this? Early last Spring I posted Zoe's hair and tail was looking worse and worse and I thought about was it tied to Spring and dogs shedding that time of year but then chalked it up to her out of sight cortisol.

Well, it is fall now and her tail is growing hair and her coat is looking thicker.

I know her cortisol is down from where it was but it sure was not within the recommended range a few weeks ago.

Could the Vetoryl really be responsible for this with her numbers not within range?

Just wondered because it almost seems seasonal but maybe that is a coincidence:o:o:o:o

Dang, I sure wish Zoe would read the Cushing manual:confused::confused:

Addy

[Cyn719]

Yup confusing:confused: - Penny blew her coat last fall and then went on the trilo - way to much trilo but got back a beautiful thick shinny coat - but when we cut the meds down she blew the coat again - so is it the needed meds or is it just a coincidence like you said and its just that time of year?? With cush pups will we really ever know the correct answer to this?? I am starting to think not!!:eek:

[MBK]

Hi, Addy.

So happy to hear Zoe is doing well! Sounds like (fingers crossed) you are on the right track!!!

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

There has been at least one study that I know of that involved administering trilostane to dogs with alopecia x. The dogs in the study had elevations in 17-hydroxyprogesterone post stimulation and the vast majority of dogs regrew their coat.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15500480

This abstract doesn't go into much detail but I can tell you that these dogs grew hair despite there being no change, and in some cases. having even higher levels of 17-hydroxyprogesterone.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-

Palmer lost most of his coat when we diagnosed Cushings. I have no idea how the correlation works, but I can tell you his hair came back and was very shiny and soft. It did not have the body the original hair did, but he most definitely looked "respectable!":)
HUGS!
Sus

[rbeasl]

Addy,

So glad Zoe is doing better and the hair is growing in. Right now I'm so desperate and ready for Honeys hair to grow back that I was thinking about glueing some white cotton balls to the bare spots.:)

Take Care
Rhondalyn and Honey

[marie adams]

YAY for Zoe getting her fur back and not showing so much skin--hehe!!!! She will be respectable as Susan said...:D:D

Are you questioning if Cushings has a right way or standard way of doing things???? Hello---it is Cushings and each dog has it's own path to go down unfortunately, but having you on that path with her makes the biggest difference in the world--you know how to research and get answers to most of what you are trying to find!!!
YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!::):D;)

Keep up the excellent work!!!! Enjoy the rest of the day!!!!

[addy]

Rhondalyn - I laughed so hard at your post about the cotton balls but I do know what you mean:):)

Glynda- I read the study, thank you for the link. I had thought since hair/coat issues are usually the last to resolve and with Zoe hovering around 12.7 ug/dl or more, I just did not expect to see this now so was happy but confused. The average dose was 10.83 mg/kg but the poodles and poms probably weigh less than Zoe. She is doing so well at the moment, I almost hate to rock the boat with her. Maybe I push the stim back a few more weeks. She is so happy right now. She is especially pleased when she goes outside and has a perfect poo. She actually smiles and then does the "bull". I still have not given her the evening dose of metronidazole. I almost did the other evening but then she had perfect poo. She is not in a hurry to go out to pee. Her appetitie is still strong but she has always been a chow hound unless you feed her kibble. Her hearing for whatever reason is not as bad as it was. It is not normal but it is better.


Susan, Cindy, Marie and Mary Beth thank you for checking in as always my top notch support network.:D:D:D

love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

wonderful news Addy!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Zoe's coat is a good sign that she is getting the nutrition she needs and something is working. Ya good news!
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[MBK]

Wow, Addy!!!

That is all FANTASTIC news!!! I'm so happy for you. I can picture Zoe doing the "bull" and know exactly what you are describing because my friends Jack does that EVERYTIME! :p

I am a firm believer that less is more sometimes. If there is no urgency for the stim, why do it? Let her enjoy some vet-free time with no stress on her!! We are loving that right now! Alivia has somehow managed to completely recover from cushing's. :D I know that's not supposed to be possible but none of her vets can explain it. I'll try to post pictures of her later tonight or tomorrow.

[Cyn719]

Addy so happy Zoe is showing some improvement with her coat and her poo has been good!:D Maybe the Fall and the good nutrition will bring on a nice coat!! LOVE THE BULL!!!!!!:D:D

[jmac]

Hi Addy-
So glad to hear Zoe is doing so well!

Julie & Hannah

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Who would have thought a good pop would bring a smile to us and Zoe.:p Sorry have not posted recently. Just overwhelmed with life,and all the appointments for Apollo.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you all so very much. Zoe is definitely growing an undercoat. Her tummy and chest area which were shaved for her ultrasound remain pretty bare but since I was not expecting ANY coat improvement, I'll take what we have:D:D:D

She is adjusting to the lower metronidazole dose quite well and I started adding another teaspoon of Zeal to her raw diet. We had a bit of a colitis rebellion with that for a few days though nothing serious and we have now adjusted to that. The colitis changes have to be made so slowly, it seems like it takes forever:(:(:(

I am thinking of trying the Slippery Elm with her evening meal. Can I buy the powder at Whole Foods?

I think she is drinking a bit more water and not sure if it is from the sudden warm weather. It is to cool off so hopefully by next week I should have a clearer pix of that.

She seems to have "off days" and I am going to keep track if that occurs after a day or two of not having her regular schedule. I read an article that stated these Cush pups need a routine, dull, boring life since they have a hard time coping with stress, especially, the article stated, during the first six months of treatment.

Her back leg does much better when we walk one day, rest the next, so that is also positive. Keeping track of the positives!!!!!;););););) She is still playing the hot dog game with Koko, LOL.:):)

Thinking of you all and all of your pups and hoping it is all good this week for everyone.

Love and hugs,
Addy

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

I had a hard time finding the Slippery Elm in the powder form but found it at Henrys. I did not want the magnesium that is in the pills. Make sure not to just just sprinkle it on the food as it will absorbe many times its own weight in water and may take fluids from Zoe. Kim and Lori helped me with recipes for simmering it on the stove. Im so happy Zoe is doing so well. Figures she would start growing hair when it is so hot!

Love,
Rene & Snoop

[Harley PoMMom]

Here is the link to the slippery elm that I used: http://www.naturessunshine.com/us/product/slippery-elm-7-oz/sku-1391.aspx It is a powder form...hope this helps. Continuing to send love, hugs, and positive energy...Lori

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking in on you and Zoe. Like everyone, grieving the loss of yet another one of our cushing babies, Snoopy.
What do you use slippery elm for?
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Just checkin' in and letting you know I'm thinking about you.
HUGS-
Sus

[addy]

Hey Sus,

Thank you for thinking of me. Trying to hang in there. Have had my hands full with mom and not much time for anything else. Sure don't like these rehab facilities:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Zoe is doing well, except her back leg is still sore from the fiasco tlast week:(:(:(:( She and Koko have had to spend too much time locked in the kitchen the last few days. I worry about that and my stress level.

I think I need a breathing class or maybe we can have a group breathing hour, remind me to breathe in, breathe out:D:D;)


Otherwise I may need to resort to Chocovino:cool::cool::cool:



Love,
addy

[Eskimo'sMom]

Loved reading your posts. Confirms some of my feelings or thoughts!

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

I have had your mom in my prayers each and every night and think of her constanty as her circumstances hit close to home for me as well. Some how we all have become kinder soles of sorts.

Huge (((((Hugs))))
Rene & Angel Snoopie

[MBK]

Hi, Addy -

I must have missed what happened to your mom. Hope all is all right. Sounds like Zoe is still doing pretty well.

Go ahead and have a glass (or 2) of Chocovine...it'll do wonders for you! :D

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy -- Thoughts and prayers for your mom and of course you and Zoe too!!! I think I missed the post to about your mom - but I know you have your hands full - especially when you said rehab - thats where I spent alot of time this summer with my aunt - How is Zoe today? Hope leg is better - yes you need to breath!!! My aunt does breathing exercises every night - says it relaxes her - not me I tried I just got bored!!!:D:D But you need to take care of yourself also - your mom and Zoe need to to stay healthy!!:) Yup a glass of wine will help!!!!!:D Hugs Love and prayers!!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Thinking about you and prayers for your Mom and you. My heart goes out to you. When my mother had knee replacement surgery, I visited her everyday. It was exhausting. I was able to bring Apollo which was a good stress reliever. Remember to take some time for yourself to unwind. Even if it just sitting down to have a coffee, tea, or just read the newspaper(maybe skip the newspaper:eek:)
Make yourself an Austrian ice kaffe: one hot coffee, two scoops of vanilla ice cream, top with some whip cream and a chocolate chip cookie) pretending you are sitting outside in a Vienna Cafe house. :o
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Oooooooooooo...I LOVE the sound of the Austrian ice kaffe! :):D
I second skipping the paper. Even the comics aren't funny anymore.:(
When they took me away in the ambulance, I was hyperventilating. The attendant said that had happened to him and someone showed him how to get past it. Breathe in for two counts. Hold it for two counts. Exhale for two counts. Sounds to me like that might be a good thing to do for you. I know if you take a couple of deep breaths, slowly, before they take your blood pressure, it will lower your blood pressure some.:)
I hope you were able to relax a little over the weekend.
Hey! I finished 3 stepping stones. :):D When I can unmold them I'll take some pictures. If they weren't so heavy, I'd make a funny one for you and mail it to you! :D;)
Breathe in, cha, cha, cha, hold it, cha, cha, cha, breathe out, cha, cha, cha! Now....go fix yourself either an Austrian Ice kaffe or eat some Blue Bunny!:D
Love,
Susan

[addy]

okay, I am so making a Sonja super sunday coffee, yummy good.

thank you, I have not been able to post much and don't have much time right now to gab with you all.:(:(

Zoe is doing well except for her back leg still being sore from running after Koko last week. I did the nerve test on her paw and she moves it right back, WHEW!!!!

She did lose more weight. I had cut back a tad on her food because she was gaining weight when we first started treatment last June:rolleyes: then I switched two of her snacks from dehydrated raw to teaspoon of Zeal about a month ago.

She is fine, looks good, I like her at 18 pounds, just don't want her to lose more. This happened last October too, now that I think about it. I wonder why? Or is it that the weather gets cooler and she drinks less water and it is water weight?

Mom fractured her pelvis in 2 places last week; we tranfered her from hospital to rehab Saturday. Not sure of the prognosis or time frame:eek::eek: I have not had much time to post on all of your threads but I think of you all every day,

Cindy, Mary Beth, Sus, Sonja, Marie, Teresa, Teri, Julie, Judi, ALL OF YOU, in case I forgot to write a name but am running out of time:eek::eek:I hope your pups are okay, I love you all and think about you all the time as well as everyone else here.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hope you got your Mom comfortably settled (relatively speaking, poor Mom) and got a few minutes in for yourself.

Hugs to you & Zoe.

Judi

[marie adams]

Yep, I think Susan has it with the breathe in cha cha cha, breathe out cha cha cha...:D Just let us know when you can cha cha cha and we will do it as a group!! :D

Keep up the good daughter part for your mom. It isn't easy having to be there and everywhere else--did that for about a year before my mom past. Of course, your mom will pull through this set back. Rehabs can be a good thing also. They made my mom work harder than she had in a long time and when she was ready to go home--she was so proud of herself...:p I just wished she had kept it up....

Take care of yourself also--without a healthy Addy we will all go to he__!!:eek:

Breathe in breathe out.......:)

[jmac]

Hi Addy,
It sounds like there is a lot going on with you. I hope your mom is okay. My grandpa was in and out of rehab centers a couple of years ago (he has since passed away) and it sure was tough for my parents. I feel for you. I hope Zoe's leg feels better soon too. Glad to hear the nerve test had good results.

My Hannah is about the same. No real change here. Thinking I might need to try some pumpkin to help her poop. She seems to be straining again. Back legs are still weak. No steps anymore and no jumping at all. Still happy and following me around though.

Take care!

Julie & Hannah

[Squirt's Mom]

cha cha cha - that's funny because that's how I describe Trinket in heat. :p And she is CHA CHA CHAing all over the place right now! :D

Hope things are improving with your mom and Zoe's leg. Try to get some rest as often as you can and know we are always here for you, sweetie.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy!
That's all.:D
Love,
Sus

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Through all of what you are going through, please take care of yourself. I went thru it with my Mom. Even the nurses finally told me to go home and rest.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[mypuppy]

Hi there Addy,

I think you, Zoe and mom could surely use some tight hugs right about now....here they come....are you feeling them?

So sorry about mom, and my prayers for her speedy recovery..

With love and warmest regards.

Xo Jeanette and Princess

[addy]

it is my fault, i let her play the hot dog game, I knew better but they loved it so. I got distracted, I am so tired from not sleeping, worrying about mom. Zoe ate the end of it and swallowed it. I rushed her to emergency and they induced vomiting 3 times, it would not come out. it is in her stomach. they were going to try a high fiber diet and hope it would pass then rechecked the xray and decided she should stay overnight and try vomiting again and if not a specialist would come in and see if it could be endoscope or surgery. I would not leave her there, I did not like the vet. She made arrangements I could take her to her normal speciality clinic. her vet is on maternity leave but her replacement will scope her tomorrow. She has to have anesthesia. IF they can't get it she will need surgery.

I am falling apart, I am falling apart, it is my fault. I feel like I am drowning. my girl, my little girl.

[Cyn719]

Addy - hope you got my other message - REMEMBER IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!! IT WAS AN ACCIDENT - ACCIDENTS HAPPEN!!!! Zoe will be fine - I know its hard but Zoe is a tuff one for sure!!!! Try to relax - we are all here for you!!

[BestBuddy]

Addy,

I am totaly clueless...what is the hot dog game?
What has she swallowed?

Jenny

[mypuppy]

Omg Addy,
I don't really understand what has happened to your Zoe, but please try not to be so hard on yourself--crap happens, and when it does we are our worst enemy. Take a deep breath and go with the flow. we are all here waiting for some good news. Zoe will be just fine honey.

Take care of you please.

Luv ya lots....Jeanette

[addy]

it is a soft plastic toy, she bit off the end. they don't know if she can pass it so want to try to take it out via endscope if that doesn't work she needs surgery.

i am so scared

[BestBuddy]

Good thing it isn't sharp. It may pass on it's own, it is surprising what can come out of such a tiny little hole :eek:. Don't blame yourself because it was just one of those things than can and usually does happen.

Fingers crossed for a quick and easy resolution.

Jenny

[mypuppy]

Oh Addy,

I bet you are. I am so sorry for this, but you will get through it together. Please give Zoe a nice belly rub from me and a lick from cousin Princess.

A very tight hug for you.....

Xo Jeanette

[labblab]

Addy, I am so sorry, too!!! I'll be thinking of you and Zoe all day, and anxiously awaiting word that the toy is "out."

Sending tons of hugs and positive energy,
Marianne

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hoping that Zoe passes her toy this morning.

don't blame yourself Addy, think of all the things dogs manage to eat

hugs, Judi

[frijole]

AH.... poor Zoe... prayers sent from here as well that 'this too will pass';) Keep us posted and know we are with you in spirit. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear, sweet Addy,

First and foremost - this is not your fault. Zoe was simply being true to her species and you are not, sorry :o, Superwoman. You have so much on your plate right now, don't add to that with undeserved guilt, 'k?

Remember my Crys? She had Pica and ate literally any and every thing she found no matter how closely we watched her. The only thing I can think of that she never ate was glass. But she did eat whole toothpicks, electronic games, DVDs, wiring off the house, rocks, Azalea bushes, sticks, plastic bowls, every toy she got hold of except Kongs, plastic bags, my new COUCH just to name a few! :p She even ate three different types of muzzles off her face while wearing them! :eek: The first time I saw a whole toothpick pass I FREAKED! But she passed every single thing she ate - poop patrol for her was easy....it was often in Technicolor! :D

In light of all that Crys was able to pass, I surely hope Zoe has no trouble passing the end of the hot dog toy. Crys did not have digestive issues, tho Heaven only knows why not! If Trink were to eat something non-food I would panic, so I do understand your concerns.

Please keep in close touch, honey.

Much love and many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

She is at the hospital. They think it is better it comes out via endoscopy or surgery. The IMS will make rounds by nine o'clock and then redo x ray to see if toy is still in her stomach or if it moved to intestines.

I did not give her trilostane this am, she will be under anesthesia.

If I would have waited to see if she passed it and it got stuck in her intestines it would have been worse surgery.

I hope I did not make a mistake. I saw the xray and it did not look like it could fit through her intestine unless her stomach acid really softened it up.

I pray it is not surgery but endoscopy.

What do I have to be worried about with her Cushings?

I need some help with this.

[Squirt's Mom]

Sweetie, you are using Trilo which can be stopped and restarted with ease. You don't lose ground with the adrenals on Trilo like you would with Lyso - they are not going to regenerate since they were never eroded. ;)

With Zoe's colitis, you may have to start at a lower dose and move up again if she can't tolerate the dose she is on right now after she gets home. This is the good thing about Trilo - it can be easily stopped and restarted.

For right now, put Cushing's in that drawer and concentrate on getting her back home toy tip free. ;)

Now, breath in slowly through your nose......let it out slowly through your mouth.....breath in......breath out......in......out.....again......and again......now let your head drop forward as far as it will go and slowly roll it around several times while continuing to breath slowly.....if you know a poem, recite it silently as you do this.....for just a few moments let your mind drift away from all the stress you are carrying....just a few moments.....breath in......breath out......in......out......

We are here for you always, Addy.....you are not alone ever. You are surrounded by unseen friends who love you dearly, who will hold you up when you can no longer stand on your own, who hold you safe in our arms.

breath in......breath out......in......out..................

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I second Leslie's advice. Also, I think you will be best off if you can try to concentrate on one thing at a time instead of the whole ball of wax. Like Leslie said-put the trilo in a drawer. Deal with the hot dog toy only for now. Your Mom is being taken care of where she is.
I know having to undergo surgery and anesthesia is nerve wracking...but they are called "Dr." for a reason and I am sure it will be fine. You can't control that anyway. You can just be there for Zoe to ease her into the offices and to be there as soon as they will let you once she's out.
This was an accident.
The other day Bailey was chewing on small bits of stained glass. I could hear crunch, crunch and crunch. Fortunately only little slivers ever make it to the floor and I try to vacuum them up promptly. She hates machinery but out came the vacuum and I got up every teeny tiny little morsel. Like someone else said-some dogs (Bailey) will eat anything and everything no matter how closely they are watched.
She got bummed out from being left in her condo and started chewing up the pads. We took the pads out and put in two bath towels. She started chewing them up. I noticed this morning she has also begun chewing the water bowl that hangs on the door....so I've removed that. All those various bits and pieces, if they made it into her stomach, could cause a real disaster.
Be grateful you were around and knew what happened.You got Zoe the attention she needed right away.
This too shall pass (heh, heh) :rolleyes: and you will move on to the next adventure. Please keep us updated, as time permits. We are all sending positive thoughts, prayers and are giving you some of our strength. There is plenty to go around!:)
Love,
Sus

[Cyn719]

Addy Awaiting the news on Zoe - praying for you both!!! She will do fine!! Here for you!!! We all have things go wrong with our dogs - I had a bottle of antibiotics on the counter and who would think my beautiful golden I had before Penny decided to get the bottle off the counter and eat the pills!:eek::eek: We inducted vomiting and had to take him to the vet-he was fine - these dogs will eat anything - I blamed myself too but accidents happens to all of us no matter how hard you try!! As far as the trilo and surgery - when Penny had surgery to have her teeth out we just skipped it for a couple of days - then she started back up again - Waiting and Praying

[addy]

they called to tell me the procedure should be around one oclock but IMS would call first.

No phone call yet and it is almost 12:30. The waiting is hard. I think I am all cried out and just numb.

I read that if they cannot retreive a foreigh object via endscope and have to then do surgery, there is a higher risk of complications as they are under anesthesia longer. I stopped reading about it, I just was getting more frightened.

Please come home baby Zoe. Please come home safe and sound.

Dang, I guess I am not done crying yet.

Did I tell you her back molar is broken? Can a broken tooth increase cortisol?

Thank you for waiting with me.

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Try to relax - waiting is the worse - I know - penny did very good when she had 4 huge teeth pulled and she was in the middle of all her problems with the trilo -- Remember Penny is 11 1/2 -- Zoe will be fine -- Dont know what the broken tooth can cause but depending how its broke can determine if its causing pain or not - Pennys tooth was causing her pain for sure -- Hopefully the vet will check into that also while she is doing the other procedure -- he will call soon:)

[Squirt's Mom]

There with you, sweetie, there with you every second until she is home safe in your loving arms again....and then we are still with you....

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

We are all here waiting anxiously with you, dear sweet Addy. Sending huge and loving hugs your way...Lori

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

popping in to check on Zoe

love, hugs & prayers, Judi

[labblab]

Me too........

Hugs, hugs, and more hugs :o
Marianne

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

Sending positive thoughts and praying for Zoe. Lulu had two bladder stone surgeries with uncontrolled cushing's. She aced both and I suspect Zoe will too. No matter what any of us say at this point, you aren't going to be comforted much because it's human nature to worry our butts off about any family member facing surgery. I do know what that's like. I spent three hours in the waiting room when my Buster had to be scoped for a piece of rawhide in his esophagus, all the while praying that it wouldn't rub a hole in his heart wall. I cried a river and snotted all over that waiting room. I'm surprised they didn't call in Hazmat. :D I had almost gotten a grip when the surgeon finally came out and told me Buster did great and was expected to be perfectly fine. I jumped up, gave him a huge bear hug and kissed both cheeks, snotting all over him too. In looking back on that day, I realized that I left a board certified surgeon speechless, with that deer in the headlights look, just like the IMS in that same facility left me a month later when he gave me Lulu's diagnosis, less the snot. Payback is a bear. :D Hang in there, kiddo.

((((Huge Consoling Hugs))))
Glynda

[Spiceysmum]

Addy,

Hope everything goes well for Zoe.

Linda

[jmac]

Oh Addy, I am so, so sorry to hear about your little girl. It brought tears to my eyes because I can just imagine how you feel. First of all, it is NOT your fault, like others have said. Things happen. Second of all, I know the waiting is hard and I am a total worrier, so I would be feeling just like you. Try to focus on the positive even though it is hard--you know she ate it and you were able to get her help right away. I am hoping she will make it through surgery just fine. I have a coworker who has a cat who eats TONS of stuff. She ate an entire camera cord, a rubber end off a door stop, a huge soft plastic ball, etc. She is still with us today. I am sure they are doing what is best for Zoe. I am so sorry this is happening to you right now with everything else going on. Hannah had a dental last spring and of course I was worried about her being anesthetized, but the vet was confident she would be totally fine. And she was. He said they monitor them very carefully and was not the slightest bit worried. But again, I would be doing the same thing you are. Please know you and Zoe are in my thoughts and I said a little prayer that she would be okay.

I'll check in later on to see how you're both doing.

Take care of yourself,
Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Thank all of you from the bottom of my heart, waiting with me means so very much.

Zoe is awake and doing well. They were able to retrieve the toy. IMS said since it only took her 30 seconds to pull it out, she decided to go take a look around because of her colitis.

Zoe's stomach walls and small intestine look abnormal. They look 'hyper-plastic with benign proliferation ' I think is what she said. She took biopsies. IMS thinks the foreign object was a blessing in disguise because maybe we will have more information now on her colitis.

I am to resume her trilostane but we will not stim her for awhile, at least until the biopsy results are here.

Kim- I thought of you and Annie right away and asked are they ulcers? she said no. I asked is it precancerous and she said no.

I am to call at 8:30 and see if she is able to be discharged. If so, I can go get her tonight at 10:00. I could have left her there overnight but she said she could eat tonight and they don't have her food.

I am bringing her home, I hope late tonight.

AND my mom took a few steps with her walker tonight:):):)

Now the tears are relief and joy.

Glynda, your post made me laugh, which, considering my state of mind, was no easy feat!!!! Thank you so much.

Love,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Addy! I am so happy for you! I know you will feel even better when sweet Zoe is home again. YIPPEE!!!! :D:D

It's about time you got some good news on your mom, too! :D:D:D

Many hugs!
Leslie and the gang

[Roxee's Dad]

Wheeew......
Good news Addy... I am so happy to hear she has come through with flying colors. Feel like I've been holding my breath.

[marie adams]

Why are you having so much fun without me???? :eek:

Happy Anniversary!!!! You do know how to enjoy marital bliss....:)

I am so glad you got Zoe to the vet. I know how frustrating it is that we have to watch them so closely. So now you are telling me I will have to watch Ella for forever....I am already tired of making sure she doesn't eat everything in site. I almost made her throw up a week ago when she got into the cat box and ate her wonderful appetizers with kitty litter on them...:eek:

So glad Zoe has come through this without surgery and any more proding.

You need a vacation from life for a bit....please take care and here is a ((((BIG HUG))))

[frijole]

Addy... :) wonderful news. When you mentioned the endoscopy I thought of Annie's ulcers and your issues with Addy and wondered the same thing... great minds... so glad you aren't dealing with that. Glad your mom is better too. Hugs, Kim

[Cyn719]

Addy - SO HAPPY THAT ZOE IS OK!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:) SO HAPPY THAT MOM TOOK A FEW STEPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:) WHAT A BLESSING FOR BOTH OF THEM! NOW YOU CAN BREATH!! Hoping the test comes back okay - will be waiting for the results - Hope Zoe comes home tonight!! Love and prayers are with you Zoe and mom!!!!! xoxo

[labblab]

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :D :) :o :)

Marianne

[jmac]

Addy-
I am so glad to hear she is okay! What a relief for you! I hope you'll be snuggling Zoe in your arms very soon, and that you'll get some helpful news about her tummy issues.

:) Julie & Hannah

[marie adams]

Welcome Home Zoe!!!! I am thinking positive thoughts!!!!:D:):p

Great news about your mom too!!!

I think cuddling with Zoe and a few Chocovino's would make the rest of the night so much better!!!

(((((((HUGS))))))

[addy]

baby girl zoe is home now

love,
addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Sooo happy to hear that sweet Zoe is home!!! ;):)

[jmac]

Yay!

So glad for you, Addy! I hope she has a good night (and your mom too), and that you have a more relaxing day tomorrow. I am so glad to hear your little baby is home. :):):)

Good night,

Julie & Hannah

[Roxee's Dad]

There's no place like home ;)

Give Zoe a bit of a "gentle" belly rub from me.

[Cyn719]

Its good to be home!!!!:d:)

I know thats how Zoe feels right now!!!!!

Sleep tight mom and Zoe!!!!

Love you

[Rene]

Dearest Addy,

I am so sorry you had such a go with sweet Zoe. I checked in tonite and regret not being there to wait with you especially when you were there for us. I am so very very happy Zoe is home. I do believe it was a blessing in disguise however I just wish it would have come at less of an emotional expense. I know your mother is heavy on your mind right now.

Please take time for yourself and treat yourself well. Others love you just as much as you love them and they need you.

With much love,
Rene & Angel Snoopie

[rbeasl]

Addy,

I've been away and missed everything... So glad I did because I could fast forward through all the posts and know that Zoe and your mother are doing better.... It was just too scary to read...So Sorry you had to go through so much.... I just hope that you can slow down and take care of yourself now...... One day you will look back on these days and see what a Strong and Beautiful person you are and that you made it through it all... Days like this makes us all Stronger and Better....

Praying for a Speedy Recovery for your Mom and Zoe

Rhondalyn and Honey

[SasAndYunah]

Awwwwww Addy

I too missed this, I am so sorry. But I am so happy to hear Zoe's back home again and doing well :) Also it's very promissing that your mother took a few steps and we're sending our best wishes to her.

I hope you and Zoe slept well and can take a bit of a break from all the worries even if it's just for today...

Big hugs,

Sas and Yunah :)

[addy]

Thank you all,

She had a good night and is currently sleeping. Now, hopefully, we will find out why her stomach and small intestine are chronically inflamed, which we did not even know.

The new IMS sounds very young (she is) but she seems like a smart cookie. I am thankful she decided to take a look around and also thankful she agreed to rush Zoe in when she was so busy. Glad hubby and I stood firm on that option with the other doctor at the alternate site. A great lesson to me in if it feels bad in your gut, don't do it no matter what the h*#l they say:p:p:p:p:p:p The vet there was really unhappy with us:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Too bad!

Sounds to me like Slippery Elm time coming up:D:D:D:D

Really, guys and gals, to know I was not alone and you all understood my mental state gave me a safe, non judgemental place to come and just be me.

PRICELESS:D:D:D:D:D

Love you all,
Addy, Zoe and Koko

Whom by the way, Koko got to got to rehab yesterday. He was a GOOD boy!!!:cool::cool::cool:

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

What a wonderful way to start the day - knowing our Zoe is home and sleeping peacefully under the loving eyes of her mom! :):):)

I am sure seeing Koko helped your Mom, too. That is great they let you bring him to see her.

Enjoy today, just enjoy and try not to worry for a little while - you deserve a whole bucket of ice cream! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

So glad Miss Zoe is home, happy, and doing so well!!!

I so sincerely hope you have an answer soon about what the IMS found in her stomach....

Gut instincts are the best--they always say your first thought is the right one!!!

Have a happy weekend!!! Maybe now you could celebrate your anniversary!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

How is sweet Zoe doing today? Hope she is perky and into mischief, feeling good! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Hi Leslie,

Zoe has done well the last 2 days. Today she is a bit constipated and this am she did have blood in her stool but that is from the biopsies and is to be expected. Otherwsie she has done remarkably well, like nothing happened.

Scope report says: her plyorus (valve between stomach and intestine) apperaed thickened, her stomach and intestines also had changes most consistant with chronic inflammation or hyperplasia so biopsies were taken.

So I guess we will get a diagnosis of inflammatory bowel disease and hopefully the biopsies will give us an understanding of what is causing th inflammation. I know sometimes it is inconclusive.

Trying not to twitch about that:o:o:o:o:o

Love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Hope they can shed light on why she is getting the inflamation!!!! Try to relax you really need it after this week!!!!!!!!:D:) Love you Addy and Zoe!!!!!!!!:)

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

I am so glad you and Zoe are getting a bit of rest. I bet you both are tired. Happy snuggles. :)

Rene & Snoop Angel

[jmac]

Hi Addy,

I'm glad to hear Zoe is doing so well, and hope you'll get some helpful information about her tummy!

Julie & Hannah

[marie adams]

Happy Weekend to You!!!!

I posted a soup recipe (sort of recipe) on Ella's thread. You might already make something similar. It was a recipe from my mother in law--we have added our own spin on it, but the base is her idea. She could wipe anything up from anything if that makes sense. If you used a recipe of her's it wouldn't be the same because a tablespoon was a heaping tablespoon. I would go over there during the week when my daughter was a baby get a recipe and make it for my husband that night--he would say in a yuky tone where did you get this recipe--I would say your mom--he would say my mother never made this. I quickly learned to ask what she did to the recipe to make it better.

Too sad about the pool!!!:(:( Before we know it, it will be time to open it back up. We will be back on daylight saving time and all the Fall and Winter months will be gone--I do like these months, but I love the other ones better. I think it comes from being born in the summer....and maybe living in California (probably not this last one--hehe).:p

Cha Cha Cha with the hubby, Zoe, and Koko!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Thinking of you and Zoe and your Mom.
Hugs,
Susan

[apollo6]

Haven't posted lately. Thinking about you. Hoping things have settled a little for you.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy just checking in - hope your week starts off good!!:) Hope mom is coming along day by day - I know its a slow process - my aunts progress was slow with her broken fema - but she is doing alot better!! And hope Zoe has a good week also - Penny i dont know just not right - tired - I wonder how her levels are - may ask for a full blood panel - is that what you call it when you want to review everything??? ACTH isnt due till December ?? She just seems like she needs to be check out again -- well talk to you soon - Have a good nite!!:D:)

[addy]

Hi Guys,

Zoe is fine, thank you for checking. The only ill effects we have had from her endoscopy and forced vomiting is she has been drinking more water over the weekend and had 2 piddle accidents in the house, she asked to go out more. Not sure if that is from the catheter she had in while at the hospital or the cortisol rising.

Could a stress event raise her cortisol? Today she starts her normal routine so we will see how it goes while we wait for the vet to call with results.

I have decided I want to change her dose to BID but not increase it to start. I will discuss with new vet but any thoughts on that? My gut is telling me do not do a 50% increase and go to BID at the same time.

What is amazing to me is all this stress and her colitis did not flare. Of course she fasted for over 24 hours and that always helps her.

I sure hope this week is better than last week:D:D:D

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hello to Another Monday!!!:eek:

This week has to be better than last!!! Have a margarita for lunch that will start it off to a great beginning!!!!:D

So glad Miss Zoe is doing so good!!! You do have good cuddlers no matter who gives it!!

Keep doing the Monday Work Song---Cha Cha Cha!!!:)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-

Same mg but split...1/2 AM, 1/2 PM?
I would go with the next smallest increase....even if it is only for one of the times....but I tend to be aggressive. How does your vet feel?

-HUGS
-s

[MBK]

Hi, Addy.

I have not been here for over a week and just read all about Zoe's hot dog incident! So, sorry that you had to go through all that worry, but it sounds like the outcome was positiive. Maybe even a blessing in disguise if it helps get some answers about her colitis issue! It is beyond awful when they are in the hospital. You can't explain to them why they have to stay there and they certainly don't get the attention they get when they are home with us.

Sounds like your mom is improving as well. :) I used to take Alivia to the nursing home to visit my father before he passed away. She was amazing there. She would sense who liked dogs and sit by residents' wheelchairs and let them pet her. Never once was she rambunctious or rough with them. It was like she instinctively knew to be extra gentle and also which residents did not want to be bothered. On the other hand, my Maxwell can be a handful so I never attempted to take him there! He can be a little cuddly sweetheart with people he knows, but he can be pretty rough with strangers!

Anyway, I hope everything continues to improve for your mom and Zoe so you can relax a bit!!!

Take care!

[addy]

Hi Mary Beth, Susan and all,

Have my hands full with mom and rehab, new problem, can't post much, another crisis.

love you all,
addy

[Squirt's Mom]

My thoughts and prayers remain with you and yours, Addy.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Sending a virtual hug and passing the chocolate to Addy.

xoxo, Judi

[addy]

OMG of all days for IMS to call with biopsy results she picks today:eek::eek::eek:

I have to make time for Zoe tonight

Biopsies show helicobacter bacteria in stomach, stomach is inflamed, valve from stomach to small intestine is thickened and consistent with hyperplasia, no bacteria or inflammation found in small intestine.

Wants to treat for 2 weeks with 125 mgs metronidazole BID, amoxicillin BID and 62mgs of Pepto Bismuth BID

MY PROBLEMS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD
1- if inflammation is only in stomach how do we get inflammatory bowel disease, isn't that gastritis?
2- I know I read a study that the significance of helicobacter in a dog is unknown and when you treat it, it often comes back
3- if my dog is not showing any symptoms of distress from the bacteria like losing weight, vomiting, diarrhea, inappetence, why would I treat her?
4-if my dogs stomach lining is inflamed should I not try to find an easier digestive food and treat with zantac?or slippery elm?
5- I thought a dog could not have Pepto because it has aspirin in it
6- If my dog is not showing symptoms how would I know the treatment worked?

I can't reach IMS until Monday for all these new questions, she does not want me to start treatment until Monday.

Right now, right this minute, this makes no sense to me, can someone fill me in on what I am missing?


no new stim for 4 weeks

help me out here, I know I am stressed out and have a lot on my plate but this makes no sense to me and my head is pretty clear and calm at the moment- I do well in a crisis.

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I have to run for my train but wanted to tell you that Kim is very familiar with helicobacter bacteria. Annie was scoped and that's what her biopsy showed too. I'm sure Kim will read your post and the antennae will go up like a shot. I do know that slippery elm has worked for Annie where everything else has failed.

[Cyn719]

Addy - I dont know about any of this but I am sending lots of HUGS AND KISSES AND PRAYERS AND SUPPORT!!!!!! xoxo

[Bailey's Mom]

[QUOTE=addy;62196]:eek::eek::eek:

Biopsies show helicobacter bacteria in stomach,
WHAT is Zoe doing with a helicopter in her stomach??

4-if my dogs stomach lining is inflamed should I not try to find an easier digestive food and treat with zantac?or slippery elm?
What the heck is this slippery elm I keep hearing about? Wouldn't you want to stay away from an elm if it is slippery?;);)

I'm sorry....but I just could not resist.:D Seriously - I think all your questions are valid ones. I'm always amazed at all the detailed questions you come up with. Unfortunately, I can be of no help-I have no answers to any of them. This IMS bothers me......or is it unusual that you will now have to wait until Monday to ask further questions?

I am so very sorry that the problems keep rolling in. I think you deserve a break. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

You are in my thoughts as is the rest of the family-two and four footed. I wish I could be more helpful.

Love,
Sus

PS-I truly don't know what Slippery elm is.....?

[Bailey's Mom]

My message posted twice.......so I removed the duplicate.

[Squirt's Mom]

HIJACK!!!! :p

Susan - Slippery Elm Bark is an herb that is used to treat digestive issues - both stomach and intestinal. You will see it abbreviated SEB. I use it with Trinket as well as myself and have given doses to family members, too. I firmly believe it was the SEB that gave the most benefit to Trink when she was in the throes of her colitis and it is all I need to use now when she has a flare up. It is very safe but should not be taken within 2 hours of other meds as it will prevent proper absorption of the med.

Here is a link that will tell you all about this wonderful herb -

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?

Hope this helps answer your question!
************************************************** ************

Addy, prayers continue tho I have no answers to your questions. Like Glynda, I am sure Kim will be by to share her experiences soon.

Hugs to both of you,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Thank you, I am puttting Zoe's meds on hold. Brother and sister in law were in car accident on the way to moms meeting at rehab today.

I am too afraid to change anything with Zoe right now, she feels good. I can' take any more bad news or problems.
I would not even know about the helicobacter except for the toy incident, it can wait a month.

I am pretty drained right now and need to go back to hospital for my brother and sister in law.

I need a garlic necklace and a voodoo doll.

love,
too supersititious addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, dear, Addy! Please let us know how your family is doing when you get a chance. Holding off on the meds is probably a good idea - you have too much on your plate right now.

Take care of Addy every chance you get! ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh dear sweet Addy,

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with all these issues at once, please know we are here for you and are sending huge and loving hugs.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and more hugs,
Lori

[ThreeJacksMom]

Addy,
I am thinking of you & keeping you, Zoe, and your family in my prayers.

Lauri & Sassy

[jmac]

Addy,
So sorry to hear the bad news. I'll keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers.

Julie & Hannah

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I wish I could wave a magic wand for you. We need to tell God to give you a break. Enough is enough!!!!:mad:
Will be praying for you. It has got to get better for all of us.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Addy - they say that God gives us what we can handle - but really enough is enough!! - We need to have another chat with him tonight - I pray for Zoe - you - hubby - mom - sister-n-law - brother-in-law --- I hope things get better soon xoxoxoxo

[rbeasl]

Addy,

I am so very sorry that you are going through so much. I will send God a very special prayer for you, Zoe and your family. Just hold on it will get better. You are so right about holding off on the meds for Zoe. I just had to find a new vet for Honey and she told me to treat the dog not the numbers. If Zoe is doing fine right now you should hold off.

Stay Strong
Rhondalyn and Honey

[addy]

This morning at the first crack of dawn, Koko and I set out for a walk. There, in front if us, in the dim light of morning, sat a utility truck, running, with it's light on, ladders on top, pulled, over to the side of the road. I peered at it and wondered why it was there. Koko peered at it as well, stopped dead in his tracks and started growling. I have never seen this behavior from him. I tried to reassure him but he would have no part of it. I coaxed him with chicken. He refused it, froze and started to bark loudly at the monster in the road. I picked him up in my arms, telling him he must confront his fears. We headed for the monster. We checked it out front to back while I calmly talked to him and laughed about his monster. Finally the man inside asked could he help? I told him Koko was afraid of his truck and then said to Koko "look your favorite thing is inside the monster-a human." The man rolled down the window. Koko stuck his head in to give him some happy licks. The man said "hey, buddy, its okay". We thanked the nice man; I put Koko on the ground and he looked at his monster, no longer afraid, happily walking away with me, not even one look back.

This afternoon, Zoe sat shotgun on my lap when we went for a ride. She has not done that for a year.

I missed my dogs and I need them for no matter what life throws at me, my pups bring me great joy and happiness always.

Live in the present and enjoy your dogs, no matter how small the moment may be. I cannot look at Zoe and Koko without smiling.

I am okay and my family is okay. Thank you for your prayers. God sent me a very special day that I truly needed.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-what great news. Just that you finally had a kind of normal day....if there is such a thing. :)
I posted on here yesterday, but I don't see it. :( This system either posts my messages twice or not at all!!:confused:
Ryan is here for the weekend. That's always a nice thing. I made lasagna and-Bob does most of the cooking anymore.....instead of adding 2 cups of tomatoes, I added 28 oz. I was making two batches and had to repeat everything and when it came time for the tomatoes.....my mind had taken a break! So-it's a little mushy, a lot tomatoey, but it's still good. I used to make this regularly and since we moved in here 10 years ago, I don't think I've ever cooked one that turned out to my satisfaction. It's a great recipe....but a different oven and a now retired cook. But gosh darn it, I'm going to keep trying until I get it right! It's the same with fudge, I have been unable to make firm fudge here. Same recipe and no oven involved. Maybe it has to do with being at sea level. Weird.

Well-I found I have the sand (I'm cross posting here, I guess), so I'm moving forward with 3 more stepping stones. I'm gonna do that until I get it right, too!

MUCH cooler here now....but drier and that is good.:D
Take care.
Love,
Sus

[Cyn719]

Yes - thank you God!!! Addy had a kind of normal day!!!! yesssssss:):) I hope all goes up hill from here!! That would be wonderful!!!!:):D

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I am very glad to hear you had a normal day. Continued good wishes for the family. And what a nice man in the monster truck!

xoox, Judi

[frijole]

OMG of all days for IMS to call with biopsy results she picks today:eek::eek::eek:

I have to make time for Zoe tonight

Biopsies show helicobacter bacteria in stomach, stomach is inflamed, valve from stomach to small intestine is thickened and consistent with hyperplasia, no bacteria or inflammation found in small intestine.

Wants to treat for 2 weeks with 125 mgs metronidazole BID, amoxicillin BID and 62mgs of Pepto Bismuth BID

MY PROBLEMS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD
1- if inflammation is only in stomach how do we get inflammatory bowel disease, isn't that gastritis?
2- I know I read a study that the significance of helicobacter in a dog is unknown and when you treat it, it often comes back
3- if my dog is not showing any symptoms of distress from the bacteria like losing weight, vomiting, diarrhea, inappetence, why would I treat her?
4-if my dogs stomach lining is inflamed should I not try to find an easier digestive food and treat with zantac?or slippery elm?
5- I thought a dog could not have Pepto because it has aspirin in it
6- If my dog is not showing symptoms how would I know the treatment worked?

I can't reach IMS until Monday for all these new questions, she does not want me to start treatment until Monday.

Right now, right this minute, this makes no sense to me, can someone fill me in on what I am missing?


no new stim for 4 weeks

help me out here, I know I am stressed out and have a lot on my plate but this makes no sense to me and my head is pretty clear and calm at the moment- I do well in a crisis.

OH MY GOD... Glynda gave me a heads up.. I have been out of town for 4 days! Just got home.

OK seriously - Zoe and Annie's stories have been pretty darn similar. Do you think by chance that she could have a pheo? Have you had a sonogram done recently? I personally feel that is what caused her gastritus.

Anyway... re the helico.. very very very common and it usually doesn't affect a dog unless something else is wrong. So there are a whole boat load of dogs that have had this and have this but don't even know it. That common.

I would try slippery elm vs the antibiotic cocktail. Here is why. There are 3 antibiotics they take for two weeks to 'kill' the bacteria. The problem is that one of them - I found out too late - can permanently affect sense of taste and can cause inappetance. :eek: Please hold off. Or at least ask the IMS which 3 he was planning on using.. its the one that is a white liquid and ends with 'myacin'

Also regarding the metradone... (can't spell it) - Annie was given that PRIOR to the helico for her inappetance and K State took her OFF of it because it would make her adrenal tumor worse. FWIW

I have to go pick up Annie from the kennel/vets... will check in more later but just had to post .. hugs, Kim

[addy]

Thanks Kim,

I knew you were away. I spent most of today going over my old notes from when Vet "Columbo" thought she had helicobacter. Also did more research. Consensus is from what I found, alot of dogs have it and you have to wait to see if the colony will cause a problem. Similar to Cushings, don't treat unless symptoms need resolving AND if the biopsies are not done right and not enough taken it can be misdiagnosed.

She does not currently have any symptoms, colitis is the best it has been in a long while, have her down to 62mgs metronidazole SID and had hoped to reduce that. Why would I rock the boat?

I am more concerned about reducing the inflammation in stomach with either an acid reducer like Pepcid once a day or Slippery Elm.
I dont want to increase metronidazole, I just got done reading AGAIN it can cause nerve damage and hind leg weakness- how do I know that her hind leg weakness is from Cushings and not the Metronidazole?
She wanted to give her 125 mgs metronidazole BID, 125 mgs amoxicillen BID and 62 mgs Pepto Bismal BID.

Besides I have also read it is difficult to get rid of and I am not putting her through this without symptoms. I WONT DO IT. Period, End of story unless someone can be very persuasive and change my mind.

No she has not had a sonogram but the Trilostane is growing hair and she is happy.

Love,
addy

[lulusmom]

I dont want to increase metronidazole, I just got done reading AGAIN it can cause nerve damage and hind leg weakness- how do I know that her hind leg weakness is from Cushings and not the Metronidazole?


If cushing's is well controlled, the catabolic effects of high cortisol are arrested and unless arthritis is unmasked, hind leg weakness should improve.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Loved your story about Koko. Our little angels keep us sane in an insane world. I hope Zoe and you and your family are doing better.
will post on my thread.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Good morning addy - hope you have a better week!:):) a big hug and lots of prayers to start you off!!!!:d

[Cyn719]

Addy I keep meaning to ask you how is Zoes hearing doing?

[addy]

Hi Cindy,
no change really, she is just adjusting to it but thanks for asking. I started her on Pecid. Original IMS told me she could have it when we first started the Trilostane. I had stopped it so put her back on it for now while i figure things out and wait to get test copies of her pathology report.

Hugs,
addy

[Cyn719]

Addy I am not sure if her hearing is better for sure off the trilo or its that she is just more alert??? Penny is on the Pecid also - it helps - how is Mom - any more progress - how did they make out from the accident they ok?? Love to you and Zoe:)

[marie adams]

Oh Addy,

You are the best thing Zoe and Koko could have ever wished for!!!

I am so impressed by all the research you do and the knowledge you gather. You always seem to know exactly what is good for Zoe. You sound like you should be a vet.

Zoe seems like she is doing very good and I am so happy for you!! I know you are still waiting for more results, but I know Kim is a big help.

Happy Monday!!!:):)

[addy]

Thank you Marie, but you give me too much credit. I just hit the send button to email new IMS my questions and concerns. When she gets frustrated with me she starts talking in medical terms, I think to throw me off:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: So I called and asked could I email and they said yes:p:p:p

Good thing I have a back up vet until IMS get back from leave:):):) not sure now what to do about her stim, maybe end of the month??

Always something but I got some serious cuddles from the dogs last night so feeling good;););););););)

Mom will probably be in rehab six more weeks:eek::eek:

Brother and sister in law are okay and home.

It is a new week and trying to be positive. Could not do it without all of you:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

love,
addy

[Cyn719]

Hang in there - the cuddles were so good you will have a better week:) I am praying you will!!!!!:D

[rbeasl]

Hey Addy,,,

I think if we had a normal day we would think something was wrong. This rollercoaster ride will be over and we will enjoy that merry go round.... Hang In There

Praying for You and your family

Rhondalyn and Honey

[apollo6]

Sending positve thoughts you way. :)
Rember one good thing each day.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Hi Addy how is Zoe doing? Hope she is feeling better? How is mom any more progress??? Hope your plate is not full this week - that would be nice!!!!:) Sending hugs OOOOOOOOOO

[addy]

Hi All,

Thank you for the kind words.

One good thing a day-work was easy today

Roller Coaster ride still going on, hoping some day soon for the Merry Go Round

Actually, got a half response from IMS so still do not have the pathology report on the biopsies but she did confirm inflammation in small intestine and stomach. She said okay to not treat helicobacter now if Zoe is having no symptoms. I will most likely do ACTH at end of October. Booked her at the groomers this Saturday and I am concerned her legs will not hold out. Hopefully they have some extra support for her. We wanted to go see Dracula, the Ballet at the end of the month but the pups are not used to being locked up at night until 10:00 or 10:30 so we don't want to rock the boat with Zoe if she is going for her stim then so we had to pass. One day we will celebrate our anniversary;);) I would be worried all night, not worth it to try and go. Oh for the love of a dog:D:D:D:D

Mom, well, no change in mom which is good and bad. I had hoped she would be able to do more by now.

Oops, dogs have to go out. ran out of time, been happening alot:rolleyes:

love ya all,
addy

[Cyn719]

Addy - Hope she is fine at the groomers - I think they probably have something to accomadate her. They must have alot of dogs who cant stand for long and I know you will fill them in on her condition!! We hate to leave our babies for sure!!!!! I know how it is about going out - we never get out and never got out for out 25th neither - I know how you feel - I wish you could of gone to the play!!! I know we always put the little ones first!! Sending love hugs and prayers for you Zoe and Mom always :)

[frijole]

I swear our dogs are related. Annie's last grooming I was real upset because she just looked awful but I had just returned from vacation and just wanted to bring her home. When I saw the groomer the next time I asked her how Annie was that day and she said "When I saw she was still alive I was shocked. (she is so fragile) I was scared to death she would fall off my table so I sat on the floor and cut her hair with my scissors" all of a sudden that awful haircut took on a whole new meaning and I love the groomer more than ever (she's in her 60s)... sharing just in case. Love ya, Kim

[Bailey's Mom]

Good morning Addy! :D I just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and yours.
We have had a full week of just gorgeous weather....not too hot, nice and cool for sleeping. I had Bob put one of our deck chaises out on the front porch so I can absorb some of this nice sun.

Bailey adapted well to my home recovery. :) She has sniffed and looked and wondered, but she figured out I could do limited throwing of the ball and when that was done, she was welcome to snuggle up on my lap....which she has.:)

I went for post op checkup today and have had a allergic reaction to the surgical tape. No wonder the itching has driven me almost over the edge!:eek::mad: He gave me oral RX for that and more of those white pills....which I could sell for $20 a pop! Foot looks ghastly, but it always does at this point. I have graduated to the smaller shoe/boot and it has made walking much, much easier. It has made a huge difference....this recovery vs. last one....without the big toe being involved with that nasty, long rod. I go back in 6 weeks and the pins will come out, if all goes well.

We are going to close down the hot tub this year. We've never done that before. Is the pool closed now? I think the hot tub will be shut down this week.....since I have these incisions.....and can't go in.

Hugs to all. Hand in there! ;):)

Love,
Sus

[addy]

I swear our dogs are related

I know Kim, even the hair down their spines looks the same, though Zoe's tail is bad. Remember how they both had high B12? The photos of how Annie laid with her front paws curled up, her splayed back legs when she would eat,etc. I watch Zoe and some of it all seems very familiar.

I read some of the symptoms of IBD can mimic Cushings, swollen belly, panting (that I always knew was from her colitis not Cushings), it has given me pause. I questioned Dr. Oliver so thoroughly about could it not be Cushings but a concurrent diease? He highly doubted it.

I can't wait until her regular IMS is back. I was going to continue to cut back on her metronidazole but if her small intestine is inflammed, I think I may just keep the 62mgs once per day for now.


Heu Sus- why are you up at two in the morning?:D:D

love,
addy

[marie adams]

Popping in to say hi!!!

I also hope the IMS would get back so you will have some answers!!

Have a great rest of the week!!!:)

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Checking on on you and Zoe. Waiting like every one on what IMS says.
Ocotber 12th, Apollo is 13 years old.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Cyn719]

Addy - checking in - praying you will get some news soon!!! We are her for you always xoxoxox Check back tomorrow xo

[marie adams]

Happy Friday!!! Will you be Dancing with the Dogs this weekend?? :D

I should be working, but all I really want to do is take a leave of absence and enjoy Ella instead of being so impatient with her. All she needs is more activity--thinking, playing, running, guidence. Wait, I think I need all of that too!!!:eek:

I hope things are soooo much better today than they were on Monday!!!

Should I tell you how warm it has been out here????;) My daughter is taking her team to play paintball where it is 10 to 20 degrees hotter than here at the beach which I just checked and it says 77. We will finish up our brick laying project this weekend (more stress)--what fun with Ella into everything.:eek:

Have you gotten out your red sweater or is it still packed away?

Enjoy everyone and everything this weekend!!!:):p:D

[addy]

omg, marie, the day from h#ll:eek::eek: brother and i
up all night plotting strategy, thought rehab was releasing mom for plateuing out and no improvement. she needs 24 hour care and help with everything; had meeting and everything worked out for another month but they don't think she can ever go home:eek::eek:

got report from ims about zoe's inflamation, don't even have time to focus on it but the tube from tummy to small intestine is very small with scar tissue or something- asked what is causing the hyperplasia there, they don't know:eek::eek:

trying to dance with dogs but think i'll go for a cudlle instead-no sleep.

tomorrow a better day:):)

cha, cha, cha, breathing in and out

[Cyn719]

Addy so sorry about mom - i get it aunt is in same situation - may not be able to live alone -- Sorry about Zoe - hope there is something to make it better - Sending thoughts hugs kisses big licks from my little girl support prayers all your way!!!!!!! Wish I could send a BIG BIG bottle of Chocovine too!!!!!!!!! Yup breathing helps!! xo

[addy]

Final answers from temporary IMS on Zoe's biopsies:


1-If Zoe is now diagnosed with IBD what type of cells are causing the
inflammation and is her IBD considered mild moderate or severe?
Please confirm where the inflammation is.
>
Stomach- mild-moderate lymphoplasmacytic
Pylorus- marked lymphoplasmacytic and eosinophilic Small intestine - mild-moderate lymphoplasmacytic and eosinophilic


If you want to try the Pepcid that is fine. Zoe is not having evidence of clinical gastritis because this usually manifests as vomiting. The changes of her pylorus (the valve between the stomach and small
intestine) are marked. The pathologists feel that it is associated with the helicobacter infection. Helicobacter infection itself is very controversial in veterinary medicine. We do not know the clinical significance. Given the severity of changes I think that it would be worth treating, but if you would like to try a more conservative approach I am fine with that. I think you should also discuss it with Dr. B--- when she returns in 5 weeks. Because Zoe is asymptomatic and we do not know the ultimate significance of helicobacter in our patients I think it is fine to wait.

In the mean time I have increased her Zeal food to 1 heaping tablespoon with her Embark and raw Nature's Menu pattys 2 times a day. 1 teaspoon Zeal snack mid morning mixed with warm water and 1 tablepsoon Zeal pm snack mixed with water. Her stool is very good. I could probably wean her off the rest of the metronidazole but because that helps kill heliobacter and fight inflamation, I don't think I should right now. Th slippery elm may help the inflamation but won't affect the helicobacter.

She seems to get tired from the Pepcid. I have to give 30 minutes prior to the evening meal. She gets really tired when she has it before the Vetoryl and metorindazole in the am.

She did well at the groomers yesterday, no leg weakness while standing on the table. She is at 18 pounds, has a trim figure and even has a waist now. Some regrow of undercoat, some regrow on tail but a long way from normal. Appetite, not as frantic since getting more Zeal-carbs filling her up? Water intake, not bad. leg weakness about the same- higher cortisol?

Not sure what all this means but almost feel like if it isn't broke don't fix it.

Thoughts anyone?

Still trying to figure out her next stim. It will be two months at the end of October since her last one. Now I am really worried about bringing cortisol down within range with the finding of eosinophilic cells.

Thank you for any input as it is hard for me to focus right now since trying to help mom has been my immediate focus and things are very depressing on that front as her options are just not good and I feel so bad.


love you all,
addy