Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

[Cindy Thoman]

Addy, I have been following the new part of your journey. I am sending lots of positive thoughts your way that things turn out good.
I understand your worry about her poos, we went through a year and a half of Alex having problems with that. Thank God the last 8 months have been so much better. He is also terrified of thunderstorms and many other noises. He is on the phenobarb, Melatonin and gets a xanax and still shakes terrible during the storm. I have to turn the lights, tv, and 3 fans on to help get him through the bad storms. You will continue to have my thoughts and prayers that the medicine helps.

xoxo,
Cindy, Alex and Bear

[addy]

Thank you all.

I am reading back through my posts since Saturday and I sound like a raving lunatic:p:p:p:p:p:p

I guess you guys are not buying the "I'm fine, really" routine:rolleyes:

It is so hot now after the storm moved through. We are to have 90's for the next 2 days and then plummet again to the low 60's.

I am waiting to take her out again to poo. She has not gone since this morning. She seems a bit better than yesterday. Yesterday she did not want to do much of anything. At least she barked when the kids came this afternoon and she is not hiding. Yesterday she really did not even want to get off the bed to greet them. Acts a bit spacey.

Poor thing, so much so fast. I talked to vet technician but not IMS. Long story. Miscommunication, I think. At this point, I'll just sit on it.

I need your hugs tonight. Thank you for them.

Love,
Addy

[littleone1]

(((((HUGS))))) my dear friend. Zoe's not wanting to do much yesterday was probably due to her cortisol level going down. Corky was like that after his 2nd dose, but the next day he was fine. They're so use to the high cortisol level, that it does have an effect on them when it gets lower. I always compare it to someone coming down off a high. I'm glad she was doing better today.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
We are hear to hold your hand through all of this , even if it just means toughing the screen. Keep on letting us know how it is going with Zoe. Be patient , it will take some time for her body to get used to it.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Abby-
I don't have even a minute, but I am caught up on Zoe and will be thinking of you today.
I'll catch an update later.
I've tucked you away in my very big heart and you are well protected. Try not to project. Make like you're a detective at this point.

Love,
Susan

[addy]

Hi,

I need something clarified:

If we are doing ACTH stim on 9th day- Monday June 13th, to make sure she does not go to low, where should her cortisol be after nine days?

It should not be in the normal range should it since the Vetoryl will continue to make her cortisol drop for the rest of the month?

IMS said she might not even bring her down all the way to normal after a month, she might allow her to run higher for a while longer so she can adjust.

She seems to think the 10mgs may not bring Zoe's cortisol down within the normal range.

I am tired so not understanding what I should expect to see from that fist stim Monday.:o:o:o:o:o

Thanks:):):)
Addy

[Rene]

Hi Addy,

I can't answer your question as Snoop is on a different med. But, just wanted you to know I appriciate your support with Snoop and im sure someone will be along shortly to help.

In the meantime....

((((XXOO)))
Rene & Snoopie

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I am posting right from Vetroyl insert on readings, hope this helps.
Trilostane reference-post 1.45 to 5.4
after 40 to 150 keep same dosage

Post >5.4 to 9.1
(second reading) after >150 to 250- continue same dosage or increase if clinical signs of hyperadrenocorticism evident(Apollo skin issues, panting, muscle atropy)

Post >9.1
after > 250 increase dosage


Post < 1.45
after <40 stop treatment restart lower

What you are looking for it the cortisol reading has gone down from the last time. If so that is a good thing, then from what is above you decide on keeping the same dosage, increasing or decrease. Let us know what the results are hope this helps. But like Apollo, you need to then look at intermediate hormones and effect all all organs after I think a month. I would have to look back at my notes.
So how is Zoe doing and more importantly you need to reduce your stress. I am the one to be giving out on stress when I am the queen of Stress.:D
Hugs Sonj and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you Sonja, but it is the first test. Her previous test was her UTK panel in January. I asked IMS did she not want to to test before treatment for baseline cortisol. She said no, she knows Zoe's cortisol is high and Dr. Peterson said nothing about doing one prior to treatment.

Thank you too, Renee, I LOVE HUGS:D:D

She is drinking less water, chewing her paws like CRAZY:confused::confused:

It is 96 degrees and I won't let outside very much. Her poo was better this morning, she had her metronidazole twice yesterday. Today it is only one dose. I don't want to change that unless I have to.

Trying to stay very positive around her. She has not played with Koko since starting Vetoryl Saturday.:(

Baby steps. :(I hope I am not missing something.

Love,
Addy

[Rene]

Addy,

What did her UTK panel say in January?

Rene & Snoop

[addy]

She's a bit constipated this morning:rolleyes::rolleyes: What the hey?:confused:

She still has not played with Koko. If I engage her, she is active and alert and seems fine, but she does not engage me except to wake me up in the morning. Then she is normal.

But it has been so dang hot here, out of no where. Weather is to break later today and go back into the sixties and fifties.

After dinner, last night, she was prancing up and down the street in the heat having a good time. I dragged her in and she really did not want to go in yet. Then she just crashed out and went to sleep for a few hours.:confused::confused::confused:

Her water consumption is less than it was even in the heat, though she still took a drink when she woke up. Yesterday, she chewed her paws like crazy.

I am not going home today until much later. Work too busy.

Stay tuned!!!

Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are doing well. Remember cushing dogs do tire easily and the heat just makes it harder for them. The constipation may be adjusting to the drug, but I don't remember reading anywhere. Apollo is not as eager about things the way he used to be. Maybe a combination of the cushing, age(almost 13) and the muscle wasting and stiffness.
We are hear for you.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

Hi Kiddo,

At least no running poop!!!:eek: Just think if she has to strain a little it helps with the anul glands--I think. :o

It is not rocket science for the numbers--it is a constant game to see how they adjust to the drug. We were still playing with numbers and doses with Maddie. At the end we had to up the dosage and that was Lyso. You are monitoring so that is good. How nice you can be home with Zoe right now.

90 degress!!!!:eek: Sonja is right about the heat and cushings dogs. They are hotter any way so it just might be the heat that makes her a little more tired.

Just have fun together!!!! And with Koko also...:):)

[addy]

Actually, according to Dechra's U.S. Product Insert, "...maximal plasma levels of trilostane occur within 1.5 hours, returning to baseline levels within 12 hours, although large inter-dog variation occurs."

This would fit Zoe- she takes pill at 5:30-5:45am- seems to feel yucky at about 7:00 am and is perkier around 5:30 at night.

Sonja, I know she tires easily, that is why I dragged in the house:)
Though she did not want to come in:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Work is getting extremely stressful, just a zoo. :rolleyes:

Oh, I am home, peace and quiet. Finally, peace and quiet with my pups. Love it.

Addy

[addy]

Tonight stool the worst yet, formed but mush, colitis tail is watery.

Put call in to IMS- can't talk to her left for the day, happened to call in while I was on the phone, not sure if question was conveyed properly to her but the message I go back was no Vetoryl tomorrow.

She will call be tomorrow morning to discuss.

I am upset. 9:00am is a long time from now.

Addy

[MBK]

Hi, Addy -

Just had a chance to get caught up on your posts. You do not sound crazy and it sounds like Zoe is actually doing pretty good, overall! Not panting as much, even in the heat, and drinking less. Hopefully the lack of activity is just heat related (we are in the 90's here, too!). Hopefully Zoe is doing better this morning, with her poo.

Alivia has a long history of licking her paws and butt area. She's had many vet visits because of it, including seeing a dermatologist, with little to no improvement. I tried everything under the sun with no luck. At times she's had her skin red, seepy and swollen. I took her off grain and there was some improvement. I added a supplement called The Missing Link about a month ago and no more licking! Maxwell gets it, too, and it has made his coat softer and shinier.

I know you can't add anything to the mix right now - just something to keep in mind.

Hang in there - you're doing great!

[Harley PoMMom]

I too, hope that this morning brings much better formed poos from sweet Zoe. Please keep us updated.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Well, crap! :(

How is our Zoe this morning? I so hope you have seen an improvement. Have you been able to talk to the IMS yet?

Don't get discouraged just yet....we know it can take a while for these colitis babies to adjust to any changes and she has had to face several here all at once. Not only stopping old meds and starting a new one, but the changes the Trilo is effecting in her body. So don't despair. This could be just little bump on the trail. ;)

Keep your chin up, sweetie!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

How do I know if it is her colitis or a side effect from the vetoryl?

I think it is her colitis not side effect from the drug but what if I am wrong? What happens?

I am upset because I am worried IMS will tell me to stop giving her the vetoryl period. I was so happy last night because she chewed her toy and then calmly went to look out the door and DID NOT DRINK WATER. It has been a long time since she did that. I even called hubby I was so excited and then an hour later, splat:eek:

We had a terrible storm with thunder later last night and she was just shaking, curled next to me. I finally gave her 3mgs melatonin and she went under the bed and went to sleep.

This morning her poo was still not good but a tad better than last night. It was mush but I did not see a watery tail, just mush and it had funny smell. She seemed happy and was not hiding but she drank more water this morning than she had the last 2 mornings.

IMS did not call at 9:00 so I called and IMS is busy and still has not called me back.

Normally, I would cut back her dinner to 1/2 and dose her again with metronidazole tonight even though it is her off night, but I don't know if IMS wants me to do that. I feed Zoe at 5:30.

I will call her again if I do not hear from her by 2:00pm.

I sure hope this is just a bump in the road. This is my Zoe, everything new bothers her and Dr. Peterson thought her colitis would get worse when we dropped her cortisol.

[littleone1]

Hi my dear friend.

I also hope that it is a bump in the road. It appears to be Zoe's colitis that is acting up, as she is doing well otherwise on the Trilo. I hope you hear from your IMS soon.

[marie adams]

(((((HUG))))) and can you feel my hand in yours????:o I wish I had all the answers and could make everything work without causing any problems--no bumps in the road....

Hopefully the IMS will give good advice and Zoe will be even better!!:)

Hang in there because you do not have any other choice; you have to be calm for her.

Another big ((((((HUG)))))!!!

[addy]

I called and asked for vet tech to call me so she could give IMS the correct information. I need to know what to do at 5:30 when I feed her. I thought IMS did not have right information as she told me to withhold her dose this morning. I think she thinks Zoe has all out diarrhea. We are a step away from that with my definition but I don't know their definition of diarrhea. My definition is she currently has loose stools.

I am to give her metronidazole 2 times a day for now and restart the Vetoryl. If stools get watery and squirty, withhold the Vetoryl. I clarified the low dose I cut her back to of metronidazole verses her original dose. Said no the lower dose.

Not sure if that will be enough because it was not enough today and she had no Vetoryl. Tomorrow is Friday. I cannot reach IMS over the weekend.

In my experience with Zoe, the dose will not be big enough.
I feel like I am on my own with this. I am always on my own with Zoe and her colitis. They never want to hear me. I Wish I coulod swear right now:mad::mad::mad:

I'll think it through, may need some help this weekend.:confused:

Love ya,
Addy

P.S. What if we had thunderstorms for three days? Theoretically she can have melatonin for thunderstorms. From what I read from Dr. Oliver (poor Dr. Oliver, I am so sad) it is the lignans that lower the cortisol, not the melatonin. Am I wrong about that?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Melatonin can lower the cortisol a small amount so since your IMS is concerned about the effect of the the lignans I would want to be sure about the melatonin as well.

I hope Zoe gets better instead of worse as the weekend approaches so you don't have to worry too much.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[lulusmom]

We're here if you need us, Addy; however, I have a great deal of confidence in you. If you should find yourself a nervous wreck over the weekend, ask yourself this question. "Do I trust anybody more than myself to know what to do for Zoe?" I dare say the answer to that is no so rather than panic, remember that you know Zoe best and you also know what to do. Keep your wits about you and go with your gut.

[addy]

Thank you Glynda, I needed that reinforcement. I know what I want to do if she goes in to full blown flare.

I may try to reach Dr. Peterson's office this am and ask Carol to leave a question for him. He can email me the answer.

New territory for me because I am not sure how the Vetoryl plays in to all of this. Uncharted waters, so to speak. But I have a game plan in my head. Once I have a game plan for worse case colitis scenario, I calm down.

Happy Friday!!!

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Addy, I have all the faith in the world you know what's best for Zoe!!

I hope you get some good answers....:o

Happy Friday to you!!!:):)

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
holding your hand through the computer. So sorry to hear what you and Zoe are going through.
this is quote from my notes on melatonin and lignans taking with Trilostane

5. Based on recommendations from UNIV OF TENNESSEE, DR. JACK OLIVER, start melatonin (to decrease androstenedione and testosterone conversion into estradiol) and lignin (to decrease estradiol levels) with the Trilostane.
I thought you wrote that Zoe's stool are mushy versus watery? Apollo had mushy stools then I switched him to Embark and restarted Trilostane and his stools are pretty firm now, sometimes a little watery . Who would have thought we'd be fixated on dog stools.:eek:
Hope this doesn't mix you up more. Give it time with Zoe.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[coopersmom]

Addy-Sorry you've had such a difficult week with Zoe. Randy is doing o.k. I guess. He too has the "yuckies" about 1 1/2 - 2 hrs after the Trilo. He however is still panting a lot and has slept most of the day. It's been hot here too and he's not been outside much this week. Only walked once this week. His poop is good and he's eating good. Hoping for good test results Monday. Hoping Zoe gets straightened out. It's tough to have the colitis rearing it's head along with the stress of starting Trilo.

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

Sorry to hear you are having a difficult time right now. I can imagine how frustrated you must feel seeing Zoe's colitis starting to flare and knowing what would help, but being told you shouldn't do what you know would help. And, then on top of that, not being able to actually talk to her IMS so you know that she understands what you are explaining and things aren't being left out in the message exchange. It is frustrating the amount of money spent taking care of our dogs and then to not even get the courtesy of a return phone call. Maybe it is time to consider changing Zoe's IMS. You need someone that will work with you through this and be available to answer questions when Zoe starts having issues, before they become full fledged set backs. It doesn't sound like you are getting that.

You, more than anyone, knows what's best for Zoe. Hang in there.

[Rene]

Dearest (Addy),

I hope you and Zoe have woken up to a new day that brings only good things!

Love,
Rene & Snoopie

[Bailey's Mom]

Dear Addy,
Your little note earlier was the first I had heard of the passing of Dr. Oliver. I am experiencing a heavy sense of loss....not just to me but to all the little cush pups out there and to the mommies and daddies of those pups.
His help was critical back in the beginning when I kept saying to the vet.....this is not just loose muscles!!
We almost always need that one sane, confident, steady voice. He indeed was that for me.

Love,
Susan

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Susan,

There is a thread in Everything Else about Dr. O, including the message left on the guest book from k9c.

His passing has hit me hard as well. He was such a big part of Squirt's journey - I feel kinda lost. I trusted him above all others. :( I know how you feel when you say we "need that one sane, confident, steady voice. He indeed was that for me."

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

I was just printing out all his emails to me. My IMS asked could she have copies. As I read through them, I feel very sad. The beacon of light has been extinguished and I don't believe it can ever be re-lite to shine as brightly as it did.

Addy

[MBK]

Wow! I didn't know Dr. Oliver had passsed away. I had recently exchanged several emails with him and he was very helpful and thorough in his responses. Very sad to hear this. :(

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Can't believe this crusader , Dr Oliver is gone. He always took the time to address us and help when he could. He will leave a very empty hole for all of us.
Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Just checking to see how Zoe's doing today.

[addy]

Thanks for asking, dear friend,


I am afraid to comment:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

We are holding our own with some rather "large" 1/4 tablets of metronidazole and lots of calming, loving, bonding time. A tad less food has helped as well. Ready to pop a melatonin down her throat if I have to:D:D:D

I don't want to jinx her.;););););) Colitis for Zoe is a roller coaster, I don't like the ride:p:p:p:p:p

Love,
Addy

[MBK]

Zoe is lucky to have you and I am sure she is loving the extra bonding time almost as much as you are. ;) Glad you are enjoying each other's company....off to spend some quality time with my two!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
We just keep on fighting the best we can for our babies.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
How is Zoe doing and how are you doing?
You've been on my mind.
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Hi All,

I have questions after my comments:confused::confused:

We are hangin':):) Zoe's poos are all over the place, but no watery squirty poo, so that is positive. It changes daily, sometimes hourly.:eek:

Tomorrow we go for her stim. I think the day off of Trilo messed things up a bit.:(

I can't imagine she will be anywhere near range but the goal was to bring her down slowly so maybe half way would be good:confused:

I really don't know except she is not going to be a happy camper tomorrow:rolleyes::(

I took the whole day off.:cool::cool::cool:

I have a question: How come some pups get an ACTH test that takes an hour and others get a test that takes 5 hours?

What is the difference?

Also, Dechra says to feed "a small amount of food" the morning of her stim. IMS said she could have her breakfast.

Could someone explain for me?

Happy Sunday!!!

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Sending you positive vibes.
I have never heard of stim with 5 hour wait period. Apollo has always been 1 hour wait.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Hi my dear friend.

Corky's stims have always been an hour. He gets the blood draw and the Cortrosyn, and then he has to be back in an hour for the second blood draw. Corky's always eaten his morning meal, as it's usually at least three hours before he has his stim test.

I hope everything goes well tomorrow. Give Zoe lots of belly rubs from me.

(((HUGS)))

[lulusmom]

None of my vets and specialists have ever been concerned about my dogs eating breakfast before a stim. Here is a cut and paste of Dr. Peterson's blog on the subject that will hopefully answer your question.


Preparing for the ACTH stimulation test: Does the animal need to be fasted?

The dog or cat does not have to be fasted overnight, and lipemia does not appear to “clinically’ affect serum cortisol values. However, having a nonlipemic sample may be better in some situations, especially if serum cholesterol or triglycerides are being measuring on same sample.

Remember that the ACTH stimulation test is the most useful test for monitoring dogs being treated with trilostane (Vetoryl) or mitotane (Lysodren) see my blog entitled, Diagnosing Cushing's disease: Should the ACTH stimulation test ever be used? Both medications are fat-soluble drugs and must be given at time of meals, or the drugs will not be well absorbed.

With trilostane, it’s extremely important to give the morning medication with food, and then start the ACTH stimulation test 3 to 4 hours later.

Fasting these dogs on the morning in which the ACTH stimulation test is scheduled should be avoided since it invalidates the test results.

When a dog ‘s food is withheld, the absorption of trilostane from the gastrointestinal tract is decreased. This leads to low circulating levels of trilostane, resulting in little to no inhibition of adrenocortical synthesis. Therefore, serum cortisol values will higher when the drug is given in a fasted state than when it is given with food.

The higher basal or ACTH-stimulated cortisol results could prompt one to unnecessarily increase the daily trilostane dose. That misjudgment may lead to drug overdosage, with the sequelae of hypoadrenocorticism and adrenal necrosis in some dogs.

An acth stimulation test should never take five hours. If cortrosyn is used, a basal draw is done, the cortrosyn is then injected and a second draw is done one hour after injection. I have seen acth stim tests involving a one and two hour post stimulation draw but even then, the total time shouldn't take longer than 2 1/2 hours.

[coopersmom]

Hi Addy-Randy goes tomorrow for his ACTH Stim too. I can't really see any improvement in him. He's still panting, still hot, still somewhat lethargic but it has been awfully hot here and he has never been a dog that handled heat very well. He, like Zoe, will not be a happy camper tomorrow.

[addy]

Stim:

pre 7.7 post 11.2 so her pre was high (it was not on the two UTK panels) she threw up in the car, was shaking, tried to bite the vet tech, have not seen her this bad at the vets since last June.

Instructions:

try to keep colitis from getting too bad, continue to monitor and call in 1 week. She may increase dose at that time.

I don't think I want to increase dose in one week. I thought I read the trilo dogs are better off a little higher than 5, like at 7. She was at post 44 in January, pre was 4. I did not think I would be anywhere near 11 today.

Won't she continue to drop for the next two weeks? That is what Dr. Peterson told me.

I would rather keep her as is until 30 days are up and then retest and see where I am with her colitis and cortisol.

Bad idea?

Thoughts?

She is more alert, not seeing as much back leg shaking, a bit less water intake. One less pee break per day. Appetite unchanged.

blood work, electrolytes, kindeys normal.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Listen to your gut feeling. The trilostane insert says
Post :1.45-5.4 Zoe 7.7
after:8.-17 Zoe 11.2
If you look at the first reading then a slight increase might work. Trilostane does have info on an increase would have to look up. On the second reading she is within the range.

The fact that she throw up,does concern me. Maybe it was the stress of the test? I don't see what the harm would be in waiting awhile to increase. Also you said you have noticed some improvement already. But I am not a doctor. When I do Apollo's stim, I keep him with me the hour before the second reading and just sit with him. I don't know how much Zoe weighs(Apollo is 10lbs.)
Remember how I did the opposite of what the IMS said and started real low with Apollo when it was increase from 10mg. to 12.5mg. he started throwing up. Apollo never throw up after an ACHT STIM test.
Hope this helps
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Harley PoMMom]

Stim:

pre 7.7 post 11.2 so her pre was high (it was not on the two UTK panels) she threw up in the car, was shaking, tried to bite the vet tech, have not seen her this bad at the vets since last June.


I would rather keep her as is until 30 days are up and then retest and see where I am with her colitis and cortisol.



I agree with you Addy, I would not increase her dosage at this time. A dog being treated with Trilostane can have a post stim as high as 9.1 ug/dl as long as the clinical signs are controlled.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I like your plan. In your shoes, I wouldn't fiddle around with the dosing until after the one month stim either. With cortisol dropping so much, so fast, I'm surprised Zoe hasn't felt really crappy during this time.

[marie adams]

Sooooo are things better or worse???? I hope Zoe's colitis didn't return and it was something with the meds....:o

I know you had a good weekend with Zoe and Koko so that makes up for a lot.

Did the weather warm up again or stay cool? It was cool here--looks like the summer might be a cool one again :(:( Good thing we had some warmer weather for the zinnias to grow. I posted a pic of Ella and Maddie's Zinnias. Of course today there are more buds open--I will take some more pics and post.

Happy Monday!!!!! Is there such thing????

P.S. didn't see your post maybe I was on the wrong page--of course that is most of the time!!! Hang in there!!!

[addy]

Hi Sonja and Lori,

I am not worried about her being sick to her tummy. I might have given her metronidazole too soon after eating because she chews on her Kong. If I give it too soon she gets nauseous. It might of been from stress because she knows when I sit in the back with her, she is going to the vet's. Next time I will take her in front with me and see if that helps. She is really flipping out at the vet's the last two times and it was warm in the car. I had hubby put the air conditioning on cold and she got better.

Also her metronidazole can cause tummy upset as well as the Trilostane and she takes them together so I asked if I can give Pepsid and she said yes. Do you have to give it on an empty tummy? How do you give it?

I asked vet tech to email IMS instructions and now have a clearer picture of what her thoughts are so I feel better.

I actually am thrilled that we brought her cortisol down that far in nine days and she seems okay so far and her colitis is not yet in full blown flare up.

Call me crazy but I am really happy right now.:D:D:D:D:D

We will see what tomorrow will bring. I mean, I was going to be happy if she was down to 20:p:p:p:p:p

IMS said I can't compare today's stim to her UTK panel as the test was done in a different way with different measurements. Can anyone explain that to me?

Love ya,

Very happy Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Sounds like things are going well so I wouldn't worry about a stim before the 30 days either....unless you see signs that she may be too low. :rolleyes:

Not sure what your vet might mean about comparing the two tests unless she is thinking about different units of measurements? Once converted to the same units, I would think the values could be compared regardless of who did the test. But I could certainly be wrong about that.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. I am very, very glad things are going so well for Zoe!

[coopersmom]

I'm impressed you got your results the same day. I won't know with Randy until probably Wednesday. Glad the results were encouraging.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I know very well your apprehension and concern for Zoe.
My recollection with Palmer is that we started him out on 10mg, ran another test and then increased to 12.5, 13, or 15......I can't remember which. My experience with the stim test is in the AM and yes he could eat and then 4 hours later. I always took him back home at went back at 4 hours. He did get his medication in the AM. I know they took the pre around 9 and at 1 they took the post. Every time it was that way.
I too think you have nothing to lose by waiting for awhile, running another stim test, and seeing what those results show.....say in another month.
For each of us,l I think, the first time we go through this (and hopefully the last) it is so overwhelming and scary. These are powerful drugs and that we need to use them is scary enough, I think.
I've always had confidence in my gut feelings, but with this I also had to trust the doctor....so long as she could "defend" her methods.
I was told in the beginning by this forum that what we try to do is give them the longest life they can have and make them as comfortable as they can be during that time.
There are folks on here who have experiences where their doggies lived on for another 7 years or more. To me, the length of time was important....but not something I could greatly control. The comfort was another factor.
We do the best we can and you will find much of the support you need from these fine folks here.
As I said not long ago....enjoy today. Enjoy that you have another day and hopefully they will add up to years. I just wish I had concentrated on enjoying the day more. I got really wrapped up in the treatments, near the end, and there are things I would change if I could go back. 20 - 20 hindsight of course.
Something else I was told here.....you can't do anything "wrong" for Zoe because what you decide comes from pure love. We do the best we can with what information we have at that time.
This is a rough, rough time for you and I am so very sorry.
Remember-someone is always here.......anytime you need to scream, vent, cry, jump for joy.
Love,
Susan

P.S.-Stay with that happy feeling!! THAT is enjoying today!
I am glad Zoe seems to be responding well.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I give Apollo less then 1/4 of a tablet in his food, with no problem.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Harley PoMMom]

Also her metronidazole can cause tummy upset as well as the Trilostane and she takes them together so I asked if I can give Pepsid and she said yes. Do you have to give it on an empty tummy? How do you give it?

Pepcid ac should be given on an empty stomach and 20-30 minutes before giving the Cushing's med.






IMS said I can't compare today's stim to her UTK panel as the test was done in a different way with different measurements. Can anyone explain that to me?


I don't understand your IMS' thinking here either. :confused: What different way was the UTK panel done? As for the units of measurements for cortisol on the UTK panel we convert them to ug/dl by just moving the decimal point.

You're doing a great job, Addy!! So happy to see Zoe's cortisol level has dropped from 44 ug/dl to 11ug/dl!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

Thanks Sonja and Lori,

I thought it was 30 minutes before but wanted to be sure. I waited 10 minutes again today between her Trilostane and Metronidazole and she was not sick to her tummy.:):):)

I may wait until I am home with her to watch what happens when I give her the pepcid. I think IMS thinks I am nutzo with some of this stuff:mad: but I watch Zoe's reactions when I give her stuff and pretty much draw conclusions if I get the same reaction more than once. I don't know why it helps her to wait ten minutes between pills, but it does.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I had to cut back her food a bit again to get better control of her colitis.

All I know is she was laying on my chest again this morning trying to stick her tongue in my mouth. we have not had that for a long while. And she is crawling under the sofa underneath me with her butt hanging out. Has not done that since last summer. I am so thankful for these small things. It helps me stay focused on the positive and not agonize over what tomorrow may bring.

Love ya,
Addy

Sorry i missed saying hi to Leslie and Susan and Randy's mom

[marie adams]

Oh Addy,

I am so glad for you and Zoe!!! :)

It is the little things that make us happy!! :p

Miss Ella is up for adoption so you can have her to make you smile also!:eek: I got 2.5 hours of sleep last night. I let her have a little freedom (took down the barrier) and she abused it. :eek:

Happy Tuesday!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Focusing on those moments really helps.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Will post a cute video on Everything Else.

[MBK]

Dear Addy,

That is WONDERFUL news that you are seeing some positive changes in Zoe!!! Amazing that the cortisol is dropping so quickly. It seems like you are keeping her colitis in check, too. You'll figure out the best way to give her everything she needs in time. ENJOY ALL THESE LITTLE THINGS!!!

[addy]

Thank you for checking in Mary Beth and Sonja.

I am freaking out because I thought I saw a flea an Zoe when i brought her in:eek:

It JUMPED and it was black but it was a bit bigger than a poppy seed.:eek::eek::eek:

We were out for ten minutes smelling our yard and my neighbors:eek:

I think I will go buy a flea comb.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I don't want to put Front Line on her. i have not used that in 2 years.

LOL Marie, instead of putting Miss Ella up for adoption, buy her a ticket to the Netherlands. Sas will straighten her out real quick!!!

She will like munching on tulips:p:p:p:p

By the way, how do you give a tortoise worming medicine?

LOL,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
There are a lot of natural flea products out there. Just depends which you want to use.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
How is our Zoe doing?
How are you doing?

[MBK]

I've never used any type of flea products on my dogs. Fortuantely, it's never been a problem. I recently read apple cider vinegar as a shampoo rinse is a natural flea deterrant. Might be worth a shot.

Hope Zoe is continuing to get more energy!

[addy]

We are fine. Thank you for asking. Her poo has been better. I will try giving her her normal amount of food tonight. She woke me up at 4:30 this morning:eek: It was just getting light out. She was hungry from me cutting back her food. But it really helps her poos.
I'll see what I get tomorrow with her normal food qty today.

She is walking around the house more. Runs faster in the house. Seems to still get winded walking outside and tires out walking outside. We are able to eliminate 1 extra potty break for her.

She is giving me more of those "Zoe looks" I call them, head between the paws, laying on the floor watching me with that impish look in her eyes. She seems happy, wants to go in the car more, jumps out of the car pretty good actually. Not drinking as much water.

Is she the old Zoe? No. Does she seem better? yes. Still chewing and licking:rolleyes::rolleyes: That has not changed at all.:(:(

She has had 11 doses in 12 days. I am giving her a pepcid Saturday morning and evaluate the situation.

Oh, and hind legs are not shaking as much. I still get a tremble here and there but not as strong and she is not walking like a drunken sailor at all. Seems more sure of her footing but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

Wow, I wrote a long report:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am really tired today. Work was impossible with mean, crabby customers:eek::eek:

Heading for a hot soak and a dog book!!!!

love ya,
Addy, Zoe and Koko

[Bailey's Mom]

Dear Addy-
WOW! That sounds like tremendous progress for Zoe, I think. She may never get back to old Zoe-but don't worry about that. Relieving symptoms and making her comfortable are the aim. If she is giving you those cute looks, that sounds mighty good to me.

Oh-and Marie....besides LOL I just want to tell you that Bailey, who is now just shy of 5 months, has shown a marked improvement in her "bothersome" behavior. It's amazing. Hang in there,girl!

Love,
Susan

[LillyMae]

Hi Addy, I was reading up on your pup & want to share with you. I understand that you are still dealing with itchy paws ? I use chamomlie tea soaks for this & it works great for itchy skin & you can do a rinse on the whole body if needed. Sorry your baby has cushings & I hope you can get it straightened up.
Debbie & LillyMae weiner

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Good to hear. You are right about the old Zoe. I do not have the old Apollo, either. Will post about his issues.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you all,

Lilly Mae,

Tell me more about the tea soaks. Do you jut brew the tea, let it steep and cool down a bit and then soak for five minutes? Do you rinse? Thank you so much for posting and giving me that bit of info.

Susan,

I am happy so far. The metronidazole and her colitis cloud the true picture somewhat, so hard to evaluate sometimes. Put her back on her normal amount of food and poos got worse, sigh:(:( We will keep trying things until we again get there.

Sonja,

Things can sometimes change so fast with our babies. I have found I have to concentrate on each day and not project into the future or even next week.:eek::eek: It is hard sometimes to do.

Thank you all and have a nice weekend!!!!

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Hope things get better with Zoe. Dealing with same issue with Apollo sometimes great bowl movements other times not so great. Trying to be in the moment.
P.S. The little guy got on the couch today.:D We need to look at the baby steps.
Put Cushing in the drawer for the weekend.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

P.S. The little guy got on the couch today. We need to look at the baby steps.

That is no small baby step, girlfriend:D:D:D:D:D I am hearing about the couch more often from Apollo;););)

If Zoe ever gets on the couch again, I'll be on a bull horn:p:p:p:p

Love ya,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

So glad there is improvement. I remember with Maddie the energy didn't seem to improve all that much, but the shaking, and going up stairs (this could be the drunken sailor area) or balance got better.

It seems like it was always a work in progress; so you will always be adjusting something. Of course we don't have anything else to do--do we????:p

I am not sure how you give worm medicine to a tortoise, but it might be sprinkling the packet of medicine like I have for Ella on the food. The vet said it didn't come from the tortoises so I lucked out there. She had 2 parasites (common for puppies). So have a packet and pills. It is only money.....money I could be using to send Ella to The Netherlands to get trained...:D

Have a wonderful weekend!!!

[addy]

Hi Marie,

That is exactly right, her balance is better. You described it perfectly:D

Gave her a pepped this morning and she is chewing on her Kong like there is no tomorrow, so that shoots that theory. Still walked slowly outside this morning, but not seeing as many lip licks and yawns so:confused::confused::confused::confused:

I am trying to make up my mind if I should just go to the 15 mgs in two weeks or try 12 mgs first. I really hate the thought of taking her to IMS for ACTH every two weeks. Last night we were going to take her for a ride and she walked out the door saw the car and ran back to the house. I think she thought she was going to the vet as that was the last time she was in the car, Monday. She is so frightened now about the vet. It is not good.

We will take her in the car more often this weekend and let her know it does not always mean going to the vet now. I felt terrible as she always loved her rides.


Last night, driving home from work, a brown terrier was hanging out a car window and he had red goggles on, his face in the wind. It was such a funny sight with these red goggles:D:D:D He looked like he was in a sidecar of a motorcycle.:p:p:p

I laughed so hard and then pictured Miss Ella sitting on a seat on an air plane with a pretty hat on flying to Sas and laughed even harder.

Have a good weekend too!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[MBK]

Hi, Addy.

Small steps are good! Sounds like you are having little bits of progress! :D

I know EXACTLY what you mean about the fear of the car. When Alivia got out of the hospital this last time, we were out front and I wanted her to come around back with me. Normally she loves following me, but my car happened to be parked in the driveway and I couldn't even coax her to walk past it! She ran back to the house and wanted inside and would not come back out. Like Zoe, Alivia ALWAYS lovee a "road trip" anywhere. It was yet another heartbreak to see her terrified of something she used to enjoy so much. I often wonder what they must think of us taking them places to have them poked and prodded and hurt. :(:( I've been making a point to take her with me in the car whenever I can and she seems to be getting over the fear. I guess it will take a bit of time.

Have a good weekend.

[marie adams]

Well you can guess that Miss Ella's googles would be bright pink!!!:p

I feel so bad that Zoe was afraid of the car and Alivia too. Maddie still wanted to go in the car even if she went to the vet. She loved it that much!:D

Keep Enjoying the Weekend!!!!:):)

[LillyMae]

Hi Addy
You can use 1 or 2 tea bags for just the feet & just steep & let cool then soak. I would start out with 2 for the feet, if you want to do a whole body rinse then use about 4 or 5 tea bags & pour into a clean gallon milk jug & fill the rest of the way with warm water. Bathe as usual & rinse well then pour the rinse over the whole dog & don't worry about getting into the eyes, ears or mouth as it's good for allergy eyes & they can drink it for a tummy ache.Oh, and you don't need to rinse it off, just dry as usual.
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner:)

[LillyMae]

Sorry for the double post but forgot to add on how to deworm a tortoise. It involves 4 fingers 1 knee & 1 syrenge;) & the med is usually liquid. If you need someone to talk you through, I can PM you my phone #
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[addy]

Great, Thank you Debbie, I will try soaking her feet.:):):):)

Marie- yup, bright pink for Miss Ella for sure!!!!!!!! I can picture it so clearly:D:D:D:D:D:D

Mary Beth,
We will try more fun car rides too as you are doing for Ali. It is so sad isn't it? She likes to go to the grocery store and watch all the people. We will take her today. I used to throw Zoe and Koko in the car after work and just go for a short ride with them. I will try that this week as well.

I am getting a bit concerned about her rabies shot. If she is this fearful I am afraid she may fear bite at the vets. I told them to muzzel her last Monday. I sure don't want to give her a rabies shot right now but I may not have a choice if this continues.

Love ya,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

Until Zoe's cushing's and colitis is controlled, I personally think it is a really bad idea to give her a rabies vaccine. The labels on all vaccines state that they should not be given to a sick dog and an uncontrolled cushdog and a dog with active colitis should be considered a sick dog.

My dogs will never have another rabies vaccine and I was elated when my IMS told me "no more vaccines". If necessary, he will give me a waiver for the city. My dogs are couch potatoes so they aren't out chasing squirrels or any other critter that could expose them to rabies. Plus, the risk factor in my area is slim to nil. If the rabies risk is high in your area and the regulatory agency in your area will not accept a titer in lieu of a vaccine, then please, please wait until you and your vet are 100% sure Zoe's cushing's is under control. Quite frankly, your vet should know better.

[littleone1]

Hi my dear friend,

I'm glad you are seeing some improvement in Zoe.

I agree with Glynda. Sick dogs should not be given rabies shots. Corky is not getting his. He actually is not getting any more vaccines.

I hope Zoe continues to improve.

[MBK]

Alivia has not been permitted to have rabies or any vaccines of any type since she had IMHA about 7 years ago. She had had vaccines about a month prior to getting sick and they could never rule out that as the cause of the IMHA. The only issue I've had is the big chain pet stores will not groom her even with a letter from her IMS. The ONLY thing I do give her is heartworm preventative. As frequently as our dogs are at the vet they are probably the least likely to ever have rabies!

Addy, my two both like to go anywhere in the car. They enjoy people watching, too. I sometimes feel bad when I take them somewhere and they don't even get to get out of the car, but they still seem to enjoy it! I am trying to make it a point to take Alivia more frequently. Our poor babies have been through so much.

Addy/Debbie, what is the tea rinse for? :confused:

[addy]

Well, I agree 100% about the rabies shot or any vaccination for Zoe but what if she bites someone at the vets? She snaps at them already.:(:(:(

Do you think it is enough to just make sure they muzzle her? I had a waiver for last year and it expired. I f she bites someone they will put her in quarantine for two weeks.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I am afraid for her on both counts. Should I buy a muzzle and muzzle her myself? I am really scared for her, it is not an exaggeration. She almost bit the vet tech last Monday.:eek::eek::eek:

What should I do? I know the rabies shot is bad for her and the chance of her having contact with rabid animals is pretty slim.But they can't take her from me either.:eek::eek::eek:

Hugs,
Addy

[MBK]

Addy,

My big brave hunter Maxwell is actually a little scaredy cat (I guess that would be dog). He has to warm up to people gradually and then he is fine. He is especially afraid of strange men (aren't we all???). :D He has never bitten anyone, but I always felt there was that chance. I bought him a muzzle for times when there was that potential. It is a lightweight nylon mesh and he really does not seem to mind it all. In fact, strangely enough, he almost seems relieved when I put it on him and will put his snout right in. I call it his Hannibal Lechter look. :p [Because Max has always been healthy and has a strong hunting instinct, he does get vaccinated.]

Alivia, on the other hand, never in a million years would bite anyone. However, when she had the pancreatitis episode and was in such extreme pain, her regular vet pressed her abdomen and she snapped at him. It was a knee jerk reaction to the pain and he knew it. He also knew her pain was severe because he has poked and prodded her and done all sorts of things to her over the years and she has never reacted badly. They thought they may have to muzzle her for the ultrasound, but fortunately, the pain injection kicked in and they did not have to. But, I saw their muzzle!! :eek::eek::eek: It was thick, hard leather!! It looked old and yucky....not something I would have wanted on my dogs face. In fact, I was really going to run home and get Max's for her if it was needed! So, my point of this whole LONG story is buy one of your own! Just in case you need one, and better safe than sorry. I don't think you'd want Zoe's sweet little face in a heavy, nasty looking one like my vet has! Maybe they are not all as bad as his, but I still wouldn't want one on my dog that other sick dogs had used. Something tells me you would be as picky about this as I am. ;) Plus, you might be able to introduce her to it at home gradually to hopefully cut down on the additional stress of another new scary thing she's not used to.

[lulusmom]

Addy,

You can have a titer test done to prove she has immunity; however, even if Zoe had a rabies vaccine and she bit someone, you still run the risk of having her taken from you and quarantined. You should ask your vet what their procedure is for dog bites. They are normally obligated to report dog bites so to be on the safe side, I think it would be wise to muzzle her. It sounds horrible but it doesn't hurt her and she can't hurt anybody at the vet's office.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I think Mary Beth hit the nail on the head. We had thought about getting a muzzle for Bailey in the beginning....her nipping was so bad. I looked into them some and I also think that nylon mesh style would be by far the "least intrusive." I also agree, try it at home once a day or more so Zoe gets used to it. You sure don't want to risk her biting anyone.
-Susan

[LillyMae]

Alivia has not been permitted to have rabies or any vaccines of any type since she had IMHA about 7 years ago. She had had vaccines about a month prior to getting sick and they could never rule out that as the cause of the IMHA. The only issue I've had is the big chain pet stores will not groom her even with a letter from her IMS. The ONLY thing I do give her is heartworm preventative. As frequently as our dogs are at the vet they are probably the least likely to ever have rabies!

Addy, my two both like to go anywhere in the car. They enjoy people watching, too. I sometimes feel bad when I take them somewhere and they don't even get to get out of the car, but they still seem to enjoy it! I am trying to make it a point to take Alivia more frequently. Our poor babies have been through so much.

Addy/Debbie, what is the tea rinse for? :confused:

Hi Mary Beth
The Chamomile Tea rinse is for itchy skin & also works for skin infection & Frost Bite;)
Debbie & LillyMae Weiner

[Squirt's Mom]

Goldie was prone to nipping when she was upset so the vet in TN always muzzled her with a soft, mesh muzzle. It didn't hurt her but protected them and us.

She tore my hands up pretty bad once when she was sick and we had to get her to the vet. I was absolutely terrified they would take her from me when I took her in as we were both covered in my blood. But they said they knew me, knew her, and knew she wasn't a danger so they didn't report it.

Goldie was such a little turd! :D I save her life and she hated me. LOL I was her least favorite person in the world and the one she would ALWAYS bite! :p

I also learned awhile back to take Squirt riding as often as possible, even if it was just down the street and back to help her get over her fear of the car = the vet. Now she never knows where we are going until we get there. ;)

I am so glad to hear that you are seeing some improvements in Zoe. That just thrills me no end, honey, and I know it does you as well. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Thank you all, we will go buy a muzzle and train her to wear it. I'll take her back to holistic vet for a "check up" and ask for another waiver. It is good to check in with her anyway. She will be shocked to see me.

Current plan for Zoe: Pre was 7.7 post was 11.2. How much does stress elevate those numbers, a tiny bit? Do I have to worry about the high pre? Never was high before.

New ACTH test to be done the week of the Fourth of July (30 days) If post is higher than it was raise dose to 15mgs. If post is about the same raise dose to 12mgs. If post is lower, than her first, keep dose at 10 mgs and retest in 90 days unless something develops. Let her colitis adjust.

This plan is only if her colitis stays as it is now because as soon as I raise the dose, it most likely will flare again.

Or I keep her as she is for another 30 days and see where her colitis is.

Thoughts?

Love ya,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Hope things are getting better for Zoe. Sounds like it. I have a waiver from my vet about the rabies shot stating due to cushings. Also good luck on the muzzle. I used to put one on Apollo for barking a lot in our store. It didn't bother him. But the little rascal figured a way to bark with it on. :D
Will post on my thread. Maybe we need to point out the little miracles besides the set backs.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you Sonja, I think the muzzle is the way to go. I have to figure out what I want to do after her next stim. I need to check in with the IMS today.

Not sure about raising her dose after 30 days. I am thinking if her cortisol is higher than it was after her 10 day stim (11.2) I may increase her to 15mgs.

Do you think that is too big of an increase?

I did not give her pepcid today. Want to see how she is again without it.

Love,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

New ACTH test to be done the week of the Fourth of July (30 days) If post is higher than it was raise dose to 15mgs. If post is about the same raise dose to 12mgs. If post is lower, than her first, keep dose at 10 mgs and retest in 90 days unless something develops. Let her colitis adjust.

This plan is only if her colitis stays as it is now because as soon as I raise the dose, it most likely will flare again.



Hi Addy,

IMO, this is an excellent plan. ;):)

[marie adams]

Checking in on my Buddy,

I didn't listen to the news much yesterday so didn't know you had so much rain. Hopefully you won't get any more for a while.

So glad Zoe is feeling better. The muzzle idea not so bad to protect everyone and not cause problems...if you know what I mean.:o

I read on Mary Beth's about Zoe's fur not growing back for a year--I think once she is in a good maintenance on the Trilo you will see her fur come back. It takes a little time but Maddie's finally came back--a little different fur texture, but it did come back--hang in there like you always do!!!:)

Happy Wednesday and Summer!!!

[addy]

Thank you Lori and Marie,

have my hands full tonight, more rain, have to work on the pool, now I have ants in the kitchen:eek::eek: Lived her 11 years, never had them, must be all the rain.:eek::eek: dogs have to poo and yard is drenched, they don't like it:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

waiting for IMS to call about my check in

one of those crazy, crazy nights

Love,
addy

[lulusmom]

I wish Arizona could get a little bit of that rain right now. The fires are raging with no end in sight. :(

[addy]

Oh how I wish I could send the rain. The fires sound terrible on the news.

Glynda, I have been meaning to ask you your thought on Zoe's ACTH test; her pre was 7.7ug/dl (high) post 11.2ug/dl. How much of that could be from stress? Before treatment her pre was always about 4ug/dl. (normal) Just wondering.

Still waiting to hear from the elusive IMS:(:(:(

Zoe seems to be in good spirits and her colitis is calming down. I may try to skip an evening metronidazole dose this weekend just for curiosity's sake;);)

Love ya,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Glynda, I have been meaning to ask you your thought on Zoe's ACTH test; her pre was 7.7ug/dl (high) post 11.2ug/dl. How much of that could be from stress? Before treatment her pre was always about 4ug/dl. (normal) Just wondering.


Hi Addy,

I found these two studies; one is about how disease effects the results on baseline cortisol numbers, the other study shows that female dogs have an increased susceptibility to environmental stress.

Effects of disease on the results of diagnostic tests for use in detecting hyperadrenocorticism in dogs: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7591942

Excerpt from this study:
A group of 100 dogs was studied: 59 dogs with nonadrenal disease, 21 clinically normal dogs, and 20 dogs with pituitary-dependent hyperadrenocorticism. Of 59 dogs with nonadrenal disease, 20 (34%) had high baseline cortisol concentration (greater than reference range limits),

Adrenal cortical response in clinically normal dogs before and after adaptation to a housing environment: http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/24/1/40.pdf

Excerpt from this study:
58 dogs (29 males and 29 females) selected as healthy on clinical and biochemical evaluations
were subjected to an ACTH adrenal function test 2 days after their admission to a veterinary hospital (t + 0). Basal female serum cortisol concentrations were significantly higher than concentrations in males (77 nmolll versus 43 nmolll; P <O' 01)...

These findings are indicating an increased susceptibility of bitches to environmental stress.

IMO, I believe with Zoe having a non-adrenal illness, like colitis, and with the stress of the vet visit, this would definitely raise her baseline cortisol number from what is was before. I am sure Glynda will be along to share her opinion as well.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I am not the expert but Apollo's last one was
Pre 4.57 and post after7.15. Because of how sensitive Apollo is, we are keeping the same until his reading in July. My gut says to increase because of other issues.
But if Zoe is starting to stabilize why rock the boat for know?
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Lori and Sonja,

The studies were really interesting, thank you for the link. IMS called me at work on her day off. We had a very long conversation about Zoe. We continue on 10mgs until next stim, after the holiday. No UTK panel. I have given her all my eamail and articles to read and she was very interested and open minded. I loved that we could have a conversation and she was not threatened. She's a keeper:)

Sonja, we will decided what to do after the next stim in about 2 weeks. I may be wrong but I think her cortisol may be going up. If her ACTH test shows that, we will increase dose, if it is about the same, we will allow her body to adjust and keep her at the 10 mgs for a bit longer as long as her symptoms do not worsen in the next 2 weeks.

I was going to increase her to 15mgs if her cortisol is rising. But am rethinking myself back to 12 mgs. I am really on the fence over this one. I would rather keep her cortisol on the higher side for while until I get her colitis back to where it was. I guess I can't plan until we retest her.

Will 2 more mgs really do anything? Ims will do whatever I want.

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I think the link explains about the increase. For me better to be a little conservative.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lori and Sonja,


Will 2 more mgs really do anything? Ims will do whatever I want.



I honestly can not say if the added 2 mgs will result in a lower cortisol number but taking Zoe's sensitivity of medicines in account I believe going this slow route would be easier on her.

As you already know first hand how colitis can flare-up so easily, I think letting her system adjust to Trilostane gradually is an option that could really work out great.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

Thanks Lori,

I will wait to see how the next two weeks play out. It is to get warm finally next week so she won't be able to walk much. She seems to be drinking just a tad more water and I am seeing a bit more of shaking in her back legs again. This started this weekend. She seems more reactive outside, barking at strangers but calms down right away with commands and rewards. She does not want me to pick her up again and she just seems bothered. We did have storms for every day for all of last week. It takes her a while to calm down from stressful events. Last night she as on floor at my feet, laying on her side and her back leg started trembling. I put my hand on it softly and it stopped. I took my hand away and it shook a bit again and then she yawned and yawned with calming signals. I asked her is she wanted her snack and she got right up, shook herself out and was perfectly fine.:confused::confused: The weird thing is through all the storms I was getting pretty good stool so it would appear that they did not affect her that much. Not sure what is bothering her.

I'll keep watch:D:D:D:D

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
It is a guessing game with this disease. Take it one day at a time.
Apollo moves away from me sometimes also. I think our cushing babies overheat so easily that they need to cool down. Last week Apollo was lying on my Mom's lap and the heat from her body made him overheat. I now carry a spray can filled with water. Another suggestion from my Mom, and spray him when he starts panting to cool him down. He seems to overheat very easily now.
The leg trembling may go away.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking on how you and Zoe are doing.
I upped to Apollo to 12 mg. when we first started out. How is Zoe doing on Trilostane.
Enjoy your July 4th.;)
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Sonja,

I checked in on you too yesterday:D:D:D

Zoe seems to be okay. Her balance is better, she is asking to walk down the street more often, poos have improved, appetite is still HUGE but a bit better outside, drinking is down a bit have had no accidents in the house for a month, LICKING has gotten worse:confused::confused: temperament is off and on, sometimes good outside, sometimes crabby (i can relate to that:p:p:p)

I think her cortisol went higher so will be interested to see her stim results next week. IMS said I don't have to decide what to do right away, I can wait a week or two since I just had to buy another 30 pills and would otherwise only use a few.

Otherwise she seems happy and bright eyed. Shaking in her front bad paw still there, shaking in hind legs is not quite as bad, they seem to slightly tremor after a walk now.

I hope to spend the week in the pool after I clean the carpet in the bedrooms, wash the windows and finish all my gardening, take my Mom to the doctor, Zoe to the vet, Koko to the groomers. Vacation? What vacation is the way it is stacking up. My to do list grows everyday:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Happy Fourth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

I'm glad my niece is showing some improvement. I hope everything continues to improve.

[addy]

Thank you Terri,

Your niece has improved in some areas and today suprised me as she has been quite active. Have not seen her move around the house this much since last summer;)

She sends love to you and Corkster and so do I:):):)

Hugs,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I'm really glad to read about the positive signs Zoe has shown.

Regarding the "vacation"-I have a long, long to do list. I don't call it a to do list anymore. It's my list of things I might do if I am looking for something to do. I never worry about getting it all done anymore. The really important things get done. It's amazing what you can skip doing and it really makes no difference.

TRY TO RELAX!!!!!! :):);)

Love,
Susan

[apollo6]

Glad Zoe is doing better. My to do lists get bigger and I seem to less.:eek:
Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thanks guys:D:D:D:D

We pushed the envelope, so to speak, with the pups and left them last night to go see the fireworks in the city. Usually if we leave them at night we are home by 9pm and we did not get home until 11:00. I think my pups are spoiled. Our lives revolve around what is best for them and I was so worried, we left the fireworks early to get home by 11:00 otherwise it would have been midnight. Even 11:00 seemed too much for them, they are not used to do.

They were both stressed and barking and barking. Zoe did not go to sleep until midnight and was still up at her inner alarm clock time of 5:15:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

She is now under the bed, snoring and sound asleep while I am doing all my chores. Thanks Zoes!!!!!!

Hopefully the stress will wear off before Wednesday. She goes for her stim in the am. I will stay home now with her and keep her normal routine. Their routine has been messed up all weekend with company and running in and out.

What we don''t do for our pups:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Enjoy your 4th.
Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

We are home from our vet visit and stim. Results will be in today but IMS is really busy and said won't call until tomorrow unless something is wrong.

Koko went to the groomer and I planned a stress free vet visit for Zoe. We played beauty parlor and I brushed her and put her hair in pig tails, dropped off Koko, got to the IMS and took a leisurely walk in the shade and let her smell and pee. She walked right in the door and was calm, did not bark at any of the dogs and fell asleep in the exam room.:rolleyes: 100% change from two weeks ago:D:D:D

No throwing up, she seems perfectly fine now, the best shape I have ever seen her in after a stim.:confused::confused:

Dare I even hope she is at 9ug/dl? It would be too good to be true. I will have to make a decision about raising her 12mgs or 15 mgs most likely.

I think I am heading for the pool. I need some thinking time.

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Addy,

I have been following along with joy at how well Zoe is doing on the Trilo! :) I hope the results are pleasing to you but based on her behavior you have reported, it sounds like things are definitely improving for our girl.

Swim, sun, enjoy your babies....but don't think today. ;) Take a break and just relax some. You have done such an amazing job and certainly deserve some fun time to yourself!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
So glad to hear Zoe is doing better. Will be waiting for Zoe's test results. Think positive thoughts.:)
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you Sonja and Leslie,

I am very pleased but I am worried the reason her poo is doing so well is because her cortisol is going up. Even with the chaos of company and no normal routine for 3 days, leaving her until late at night, I skipped a metronidazole dose and she was fine.

So I am worried her cortisol is going up and this activity I see and this alertness is from not having melatonin. it just seems too good to be true.

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Yay!!! A Good Visit to the Vets!!!!!

So glad it went well and Miss Zoe is doing so good. :)

Yeah, vacations never go as planned if you are staying home. Things just get in the way of the list. :p

Here's hoping for a "9"....:D

[Bailey's Mom]

So let's see.....the poo is good, the energy level is up a good bit, the vet visit was so boring she fell asleep waiting......And you're worried???!!!;);)
How do things look today? Still good? ENJOY IT!!!!!;)
All we have is today. Let's worry about tomorrow when it comes....and by then it will be yesterday and there won't be anything we can do about it!!!
You're a wonderful Mom (even to me!) :D and you work hard at it. Just trust the process until you learn something different.
You deserve this!
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Thanks Susan. I am going to redo the traffic spots, I went out and bought a pre treater. Why did I buy white carpet? What was I thinking?


Found this updated article. Do we have it in our Resource Section?


http://wvc.omnibooksonline.com/data/papers/2011_SA107.pdf

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Since I can't get the link to work, I have no idea if we have it or not. :D When the page opens, all it shows are some little boxes that open more little boxes. :confused: Hopefully, someone else can get it open.

Hope things are still going well for Zoe!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Thank you Leslie,

It is an interesting article. I had been looking for updates on Trilostane, articles from this year. Trying to find different ideas on how to raise the dose and when. I found Dr. Peterson's papers from a few years ago and then this one.

Zoe is fine.:D I cut back her metronidazole to every other day as it was prior to Trilo and she is fine so far. She took what was for her a longer walk this am as it was cool and she did not have much in the way of leg shaking. Of course, she is a happy girl 'cause Mama has been home with her all week.:p:p:p:p

Still don't have her test results:mad::mad::mad:

Doesn't matter, I was going to wait to change anything anyway. I might just leave alone for another month.

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Keep searching, girl! New info is always welcome! :) Especially, from doctors as renowned and respected as Dr. Peterson.

I can't help but think Zoe's stools are better because the cortisol is finally lower than it has been for some time. Her system is able to start recovering and functioning as it is supposed to as opposed to battling stress 24/7. ;) Of course, much of my "think" is fueled by the sincerest hope that Trilo is going to work magic for our sweet girl. She, and you, deserve some time free of constant worry and stress, physical and mental.

Any time someone has tests that are slow getting back in, I always want to say, "Be sure the sample isn't sitting in the freezer!" :p I will never forget that happening at our old vet's - funny, funny, funny! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

Happy Friday Night!!!!

I am so glad Zoe is still having good days and how could she not with you to spend them with!!! Who cares if you didn't get anything done this week but spend time with Zoe and Koko isn't that what life is about to spend time with them. :)

I hope the rest of the weekend is a happy one!! :p

[apollo6]

dear Addy
Try to enjoy the good things about Zoe. I know how you feel. With cushings we worry even more. If Zoe doesn't have any other symptoms and is doing fine, try to let the worry go. We have to enjoy each day as it comes with our fur balls. And yes it is a roller coaster ride. We never know when the next fire will pop up to try and put out.
Hope you can enjoy your weekend.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Results in
Pre 9.1ug.dl Post 16.9ug/dl

Ten day was 7.7 and 11.2

As I thought, she was going up. Choices:

1-leave her alone for 4 weeks and see how she does

2-change now to compounded 15mg

3-change to 10 mgs vetoryl am and 5 mgs compounded pm

Does anyone know if 5mgs compounded has to be in oil?
(IMS is not sure how and if compunded drug may change things)

My initial thoughts: if Zoe had super high cortisol at 440.2 ng/ml (44 ug.dl) maybe the 5mgs trilostane bump in the evening would be enough to keep her cortisol from going so much higher and then the 10mgs in the am would bring her down to higher 7-9 range?

IMS said maybe we should leave her be and not rock the boat yet if she is doing well. I have noticed subtle differences in her the last 2 weeks which made me think she was going up but her symptoms are still better than they were prior to treatment.

I did notice the first week or so, she acted differently in the evening- she was crashing down during the day and feeling crappy and then felt better in the pm.

Worried about doing compounded in oil. i think if 5mgs has to be compounded in oil, i would just do the 15mgs sid.

Thoughts????????

Love,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I personally would choose option 2 and no, compounded trilostane does not have to be in liquid form. Diamondback Drugs compounded Lulu's and Jojo's trilostane in capsule form.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
From my experience with Apollo I would leave her be for now. Zoe is very sensitive like Apollo. Just monitor her and when the time comes do the option you mentioned, the compounded 10 then 5. TRilostane can be just has lethal as Lysdoren in it's on way. Better to be cautious. Apollo was put on one compounded 12.5 mg threw up twice , then I stopped the Trilostane for the 3 month period because of that. Maybe it should have been twice a day and not all at once. Makes me question the IMS. Apollo also has the jaw trembling that started.
Hope this helps.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

Corky's Trilo has always come in capsule form from Diamondback, no matter what the dosage has been.

[Harley PoMMom]

Option 2 sounds like a good idea to me!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[labblab]

Addy, I would go for option two, also.

And if your IMS is uncomfortable with using compounded bulk trilostane, I believe that Diamondback will repackage brandname Vetoryl into whatever capsule strength your vet prescribes. This would be more expensive for you, but I believe it is an option.

Marianne

[addy]

Thanks Guys, Originally I had planned for option two but then got nervous and thought about 12.5 if she was not up to 20. IMS thought 2mgs would not do much for her. I think I doubt it as well. But then she mentioned about 10/5 option.

She went to a conference last year and Dechra told all the IMS vets about a study they did testing compounded 10mg capsules and they found a dose range within the capsules of anywhere from 8mgs up to 18 mgs. She took it with a grain of salt but is still unsettled about the study. Was worried about switching to compounded may change things for Zoe, you just never know. She also believes if Zoe's quality of life is good right now, maybe don't rock the boat. I see these little changes in Zoe the last week or so and don't want them to get worse.They are not terrible changes, nothing drastic, she is doing well. But maybe she can do better.

I have come this far, I need to finish the job, I think. It has been a month. If I don't like the way she is with 15mgs I'll decrease the dose.

Love you all and thank you.

Addy, Zoe and Koko too;););)

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

Compounding pharmacies can't compound 10mg, as Vetoryl comes in 10mg. You might want to contact Dr. Allen to get verification of this information.

[labblab]

Terri, you are right about that -- here in the U.S., pharmacies do not sell compounded trilostane in dosage strengths of 10 mg, 30 mg, or 60 mg. since those are the strengths in which brandname Vetoryl is sold.

Marianne

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
When I got the compounded it was 12.5 mg for a once a day dosage, and Apollo did not do well on it. Now see below I think Apollo should have had 10mg. morning and 5 mg. evening.
My concern for Zoe is if she is okay now why increase and if you do the 10mg. and 5mg. sounds like a good idea. So you would still get the regular 10mg. and get a 5mg. which would be compounded.
I have attached once again what Decha says about increasing the dosage.

27. Twice daily means increase dosage by 1/3 or ½ only > Which would be 10 +5=15mg divide in two, would be 7.5 mg in morning and 7.5 mg in evening(18hr difference) Dr. Allen said I could do 10mg in morning and 5mg. in evening (compounded) because Apollo is so little would not want to go any higher.


I also read that there are less side effects with dosing twice a day. So why didn't the IMS I had do so for Apollo.
I will try to post tomorrow. Think the TRilostane may be making Apollo's legs worse. Will post.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Wonder why she specifically told me the story? :confused::confused: Maybe she remembered wrong and it was a different dose they tested. But our compounding agency asked me if I wanted compounded 10mgs or brand name and she asked me if I wanted 10mgs compounded or brand name when she wrote the perscription. Could they have change the rules? Maybe they don't know the rules:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Our compounding agency told hubby they use Dechra's trilostane not bulk so maybe that is what it is they are repackaging it ?

Maybe they are confused. I am not going to worry about it. She called me on a Saturday and she should not have even been at the office. She tries so hard for Zoe and she knows I research everything and doesn't care. I think we are a good team and she is comfortable with 15 mgs. She is more conservative then I am. We were just throwing ideas around to each other.

Dr. Peterson had said originally to do 15 mgs and I could split the dose if I thought it would be easier on her.

Sonja, I know where you are coming from because I thought the split option for Appollo was a good idea but his cortisol is within range, hers is going up and was through the roof to begin with.

Marianne, Glynda, Lori- is that why you say option two?

Love,
Addy

[labblab]

Addy, yes you are right -- I am choosing the increase to 15 mg. because, not only has Zoe's cortisol not stabilized (or lowered) on the 10 mg. dose, it has risen. And if you feel more comfortable breaking it into two doses (10 mg. in the a.m. and 5 mg. in the p.m.), then go ahead and give it a try. But after my own experiences with twice-daily dosing (both with trilo and other meds), I just know my life is easier when stuff only needs to be given in the morning. So I figure, why take on the burden of twice-daily trilo dosing until/unless a dog apparently cannot be stabilized with full symptom resolution on a once-daily dose.

Even if you want to stick with the combo of 10 m.g. Vetoryl and 5 mg. compounded trilo, you could still give them both in the morning. But once again, if you feel better breaking them up, then go for it!

Marianne

[addy]

Thank you Marianne,

I am going with the 15 mgs sid for now. IMS seemed comfortable with it. Is there any down side to do 10mgs vetoryl and 5 mgs compounded given at the same time or is it better to just switch to 15mgs compounded (using name brand not bulk)?

Thank you for all your help. I feel good about this. I realize her colitis will probably flare again but I'm okay.

hugs,
addy

[labblab]

Other than extra expense for you, I can't think of any problem with giving the Vetoryl/compounded combo.

I'll surely keep my fingers crossed that her colitis stays controlled!!

Marianne

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are a great mom to Zoe. Weighing everything out. Go with what you think is best.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

I still have 22 10mg capsuls and since her body is used to whatever else is in the vetoryl capsules, if I can, I would rather start by adding 5 mgs of compounded if I can. If that works, I don't mind the extra cost unless I go back to furlough days.

I love you guys.

Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy--
I got 15mg Trilo from Diamondback. Whatever dosage we were using from the beginning, the vet had us split it between AM and PM. The 15mg was to use for a total dosage of 30mg. Once Palmer's scores started to deteriorate, the vet questioned using the compounded. I don't think that was the problem, I think we were just getting to the end of the line. I got the compounded in chewable form. Palmer liked that and pills had become a real battle. If I were in your shoes, I would go to the 10mg/5mg plan. I also think it's better to split the dosage so there is always something in their system. The system is not being jerked around that way.
You just have to go with all the information/recommendations you get and then go with what your gut is telling you to do. Whatever you do will be right because you are doing this out of love. You may need to adjust or fine tune, but that is how this goes.
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Thank you Susan,

I think eventually she will need twice day dosing. I don't want to keep having to take her every 2 weeks for tests. She has such a hard time with it. I think I will hopefully bring her down where I want her to be with 15 mgs sid. If that does not work I will go to 2 day dosing. It has been very hot and humid the last few days and she is blaaa. Koko too.

I hope to change her dose Wednesday. Have to call the Ims today for prescription after we talk to compounding agency.

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Just checkinh in on you. Running out the door to take Mom to doctor.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

OMG, hubby just called. Zoe was waiting for him to come home and give her the noon snack. He wanted to carry a bag of salt down the stairs to the basement first. GUESS WHO RAN DOWN THE STAIRS WITH HIM AND THEN RAN BACK UP THE STAIRS? I am sitting at work crying; I can't even talk.

OMG, she has refused to go down those stairs for months.

I just called IMS and asked her to call in the 5 mg perscription. I hope to have the pills and start Wednesday or Thursday.

I feel positive.

Hugs,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Yay!!! Go, Zoe, go

[littleone1]

This is such great news Addy.

[Squirt's Mom]

:D Woohoo, Zoe!!! :D

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

that is wonderful!!

[frijole]

Yippee!!!!!!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Wonderful, wonderful news!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

Ladies and gentlemen.....in this corner we have Zoe, wonder-dog for the month of July!!! :):):):)
Yippie, Yea, Hooray!!! Go Zoe, go Zoe, go Zoe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D :cool::cool::cool::cool:

-Susan

[marie adams]

Oh Addy,

It was all your loving touches from last week!!!:p

The Zoemeister is back!!!!:D:D:D

Tears of Joy!!!!

I am so glad for you!!!!:):)

[logans mom]

Hi Addy,

That is great news!!! Hope that extra 5 mg put Zoe right where she needs to be. Keep that positive energy going!!



Your next door neighbor in Illinois
Where it is hot & humid too!!


Hugs,
Debbie & Logan

[addy]

Awww, you guys, I am sitting here bawling again because of your kindness.

Thank you so very much from the bottom of my heart.

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

You go Zoe. Ya Ya
It is so great to hear this .
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

We have our extra 5mgs compounded Trilostane and we are good to start 15mgs tomorrow morning.

Hubby will be home until 2:30 with Zoe and she will be alone with Koko until 5:30.

I think 3 hours alone is okay, isn't it? I will get home at 5:30. I could have my daughter stop in and check on her at 4:00 but I think the commotion will be more trouble for both pups.

Wish us luck.


Addy, Zoe and Koko too

[lulusmom]

Zoe should be just fine until you get home.

[rbeasl]

Addy,

I'm just now reading about the good news with Zoe.

THIS IS GREAT NEWS. I am so happy for your lil Zoe. Im glad
I read this. This is very positive and encourging. Gives me something to look for to.

Strut your stuff lil Zoe
Rhondalyn and Honey

[addy]

Oh Rhondalyn thank you for your kind words and yes you do have something to look forward to for Honey; even just the small changes make you feel good.:):) Sometimes the littlest things count the most:)



Hugs,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I just saw where you posted how much you pay for stim test which included $120+ for cortrosyn. It is not necessary to use the entire vial of cortrosyn for Zoe. Your IMS/vet should be able to do five stim tests from one vial. Do the math and you'll see what a huge savings that is for you. If your vet does not know how to store the cortrosyn, give him/her the link to Dr. Peterson's detailed instructions on his blog for vets. You may want to print it out and hand it to him/her and get an agreement right then and there that going forward, at the next stim only 5mcg/kg of cortrosyn will be used and the remaining cortrosyn will be split, labeled and stored for Zoe's future stims. If your vet isn't willing to do this, I'd find another vet because there is absolutely no reason to create a financial hardship for you.

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-extend-your-supply-of-cortrosyn.html

[addy]

Thank you Glynda for reminding me. I had read the blog but did not follow up with my IMS. I just plain forgot.:o:o:o

So far Zoe is fine. She was chewing on her paws this morning a bit more than usual but who knows:confused: Anxious to see her poos tomorrow.

Hugs,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I saw Glynda's note about the cost of the ACTH test.....and have gone back 18 pages and did not find it. Could you repeat that please?
Thanks.
Susan

[lulusmom]

Susan, you couldn't find the information on Zoe's thread because Addy's post was in response to a Poll entitled "How much have you paid for an ACTH stimulation test? U.S. Dollars". You can find it here:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1148&page=2

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Like you , I left Apollo home alone Monday to go to doctor with Mom. He was alone 4 hours and was okay, but did look stressed. He did survey. I am even more protective on my little boy. I sometimes think are babies don't know they are sick and just try the best they can. We adapt and they adapt in their own way.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Oh my Zoe, she loves to fool with her Mama's brain. I should be a babbling idiot by now;)(okay no smart comments Marie and Susan:D:D)

Well, the 5mgs of compounded Trilostane have not bothered the little princess except we are a bit constipated. Now, I think it is because her water intake dropped again. We have stool half or less the size we usually do:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If this continues I think Saturday night I will skip her metronidazole dose. I have cut the pm dose to every other night so I am very pleased about that and hope it lasts or I can get rid of it completely.

I feel like I am in a giant Cushings chess game, having to have the right strategy for the next move:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Already planning the strategy move after her ACTH test on July 27th;);););)

Seriously, I am glad I did what I did and did not compound the whole 15 mgs right away. It is so much better this way since she was already used to the brand name drug.

Happy Friday to ALL:D:D:D:D:D

Love,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Addy, I am so happy to hear that Zoe is doing so well with the Trilostane. Will be sending positive energy your way for normal poos!

You are doing a great, great job.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I saw Glynda's note about the cost of the ACTH test.....and have gone back 18 pages and did not find it. Could you repeat the amount please?
Thanks.
Susan
*************************************************

[Bailey's Mom]

Another of my messages (One of the more wonderful, insightful ones of course), has vanished. I think brand name is preferred when possible. We split our Vetoryl pills and were just very careful to protect the counter and then to thoroughly wash our hands as soon as we were done.Love,
Susan

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Addy,

I am so happy to keep hearing how well Zoe is doing! :D

Now, for a serious question....what in the world are you gonna do when she is all balanced and controlled, feeling great, acting like a puppy again, pooping perfectly? :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Now, for a serious question....what in the world are you gonna do when she is all balanced and controlled, feeling great, acting like a puppy again, pooping perfectly?

If that perfect day ever comes, I am going to buy her the biggest bully stick I can find and let her out in the backyard to run and chew it and be a dog again.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

An then I am going to cry with joy. All I ever wanted for Zoe was to be able to be a dog again.

But I don't want to jinx her, so let's not plan that yet.

Susan- I'll copy the cost information from the poll and repost it. Thanks for caring:D

[Squirt's Mom]

An then I am going to cry with joy.

You won't be the only one crying, sweetie, I can promise you that!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

Oh so happy for you!!!!

It is always a chess game. I am going through that even with Ella. She is taking Cephalanix (antibiotics) for her bacterial skin rash and the poops are not good. Do I give her the regular food, add the rice, take away the dry add the can plus the pumpkin--going nuts:eek::D:eek: I thought with a shiny new one you wouldn't have the guessing game......

You are the best MOM!!!! Have a wonderful weekend!!! Yay!!! It's FRIDAY!!!!:D:p:)

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I knew you would make the right decision.:) I think when the IMS put Apollo on a singe compounded 12.5 mg. it was wrong. Splitting into what you are doing is right.
So nice to hear good news.:p
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Roxee's Dad]

Hey Addy,

So good to read the good news on Zoe:):):) .... Keepng everything crossed that it continues. :)

[addy]

Oh Thank you John.:):)

I am sure we have some more bumps in the road ahead of us but my biggest worry has always been what would happen to her colitis when her cortisol was lowered. Even Dr. Peterson expected it to get worse and told me so. We got off to a rocky start but we are leveling off now.

Hey Marie,

Poor Ella, I have to go read your post. What is up with her rash?

Hi Sus,

Are you packing for your trip;);)

Sonja, Lori, all of you thank you so very much. The encouragement means so much.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Pack? Pack?? Pack??? I do not want to go on this trip!!!!:mad::mad::mad:
I did speak with our hostess yesterday. When she first started talking about this, over two years ago, she was talking like we'd be there for a 5 day minimum. :eek: We tentatively plan to get there early on a Tuesday, spend that night, spend the next day and night and leave Thursday AM. The first thing she said to me was "Do you think that will be enough time?" :( I explained it was already going to be a 9 day trip and we didn't want to be away longer. :p She is already planning the meals. She's a big meat and potatoes cook. Big meals. Lots of food. Since I got Erlichiosis, my meals have been 1/2 the size of what they were before E.
Ah well. We will be doing some fun things on this trip and I am going to try to go with the flow and enjoy as much as I can. It's taken longer to decide on the details of this trip than it did to decide on the house paint!!:(
Ryan is here and there is one picture of Bailey that I hope to be able to catch. He'll be here until mid day Monday, so we have some time. I'll keep you in the dark and surprise you, I hope.
Time for dinner. Give Zoe a hug.
Love,
Susan

[MBK]

Hey, Addy!

I took a break from all of this for a bit. It is sometimes overwhelming - still. I think of you both often, though, and was so very happy to read how well Zoe is doing! YEY!!!!

[apollo6]

Just checking in on you. Will post later. Glad to hear about Zoe.
Good news is needed.
Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thanks you Sus, Mary Beth, Sonja,

Sus- i'm waiting to see the new picture, hope you get to take it

Hi Mary Beth, How is Alivia doing? I hope she and Maxwell are great and I know it is important to take a break from it all;)

Sonja, dear Sonja, Zoe wants to know how Cassanova is doing:D:D I am hoping between twice day dosing and a bit of thyroid meds, Apollo will be pushing you in the red stroller:D:D:D:D:D

Love you all, thanks for checking on us. We are doing just fine for now. Zoe's bark is stronger. For a while her bark seemed weak, I was worried her throat muscles were going but now her bark is strong again. Though, she is still barking for her food:eek::rolleyes::D:p

love,
Addy, Zoe and Koko

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Apollo always lightens up when one of his girls asks about him. Waiting for the results of his tests. Will post on my thread-Apollo had a spa day. I am praying for some resolution with the legs.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Picture has been caught. Tomorrow sometime I will work on resizing it and posting it....along with an explanation of "what" you are looking at!
-s

[addy]

Almost a week now on the new dose of 15mgs. I skipped her night time dose of metronidazole an extra night with no ill effects. Will now continue to give night time dose every third night until her recheck next week.

First few days seemed like water intake went down and she was feeling really good, this weekend seemed like that progress stopped and started to revert back to how it was on 10mgs. Don't get me wrong, she is fine, again as last time, just a subtle difference. Her skin is flaking and shoulders getting bald spot where hair is so thin. Read in one of Dr. Peterson's papers this can happen during the first six weeks of treatment on either drug, Trilostane or Vetoryl. So I am not worried about it.

Maybe the water thing is the weather, it is so hot. Why do I have this feeling she is going to need 20mgs?:rolleyes::confused:

Have a story:

Yesterday, Zoe was on our bed sleeping on her side when she started a reverse sneeze. They tend to get worse in the summer. I could hear her and it was not stopping so I went in the bedroom and told her "swallow" trying to stay calm because otherwise I scare her and make it worse so have to stay very calm. Well, it does not stop and her eyes are now rolling up:eek::eek: At this point I am yelling "Zoe UP, SWALLOW" and I am blowing in her nose and rubbing her throat and she won't get up. The next thing I know Koko comes running into the bedroom and flies up onto the bed. He runs to Zoe and smells her, looks at me and lays down and barks at her. "Bark... Bark... BARK"

All of a sudden, Zoe gets up, shakes out her head, swallows and the reverse sneeze stops:D:D:D and she looks at me like "WHAT?" Koko barks at her again but the bark is now an excited bark "BARK,BARK,BARK". I tell Koko thank you and they both jump off the bed.:D:D:D:D

It was so cool, the way he smelled her first. The interchange was so fascinating. Dang, I wish I could study Animal Behavior".

So that is my story.

Love,
Addy

[foxandhound]

That's a pretty cute story. Her fellow packmate was telling her the same thing you were. And then barked barks of relief that she figured it out! The communication between dogs is always pretty funny!

[Squirt's Mom]

Very cool story!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I love that story! Reverse sneezing scared me to death the first time Jenny started doing it.

[rbeasl]

HOORAY FOR KOKO....WHAT A SUPER HERO
That is really AMAZING... So glad Zoe came out of it. Honey
does the same thing and it is the scariest few moments. I just have
to lay down with him and talk and rub as calm as possible, but inside I am freaking out .... Maybe I should get another dog:)

Take Care
Rhondalyn and Honey

[marie adams]

Hello There!!!

Good story but scary about the reverse sneezing.

I will let you know Maddie's fur got thinner before it came back. She had the BLOW OUT just before it started to come back in. I had never seen her collar and chest areas so sparse in her life--where did that beautiful coat go....:o, but it does come back so hang in there.

I might put Ella up for adoption again. I lost it with her this morning and even yesterday with the biting and jumping up to bite. She can really fly through the air and bite also....:eek::eek: This is what I hated with Maddie also. I think Ella might just be better at it:eek::eek: I sure hope not.

Have a wonderful week!!! I too cannot wait for it to be Friday!!!!:p

[apollo6]

What a story. Koko was looking out for Zoe. They are amazing.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
Very cool story. Palmer always came to me once I called and when he was sneezing. I'd pick him up, with his back to me and I would rub his back and his throat and speak soothingly to him. It worked every time. It is a very scary thing to experience....even when you know what it is. How cool about Koko.
Love,
Susan

[jmac]

I hate the reverse sneezing too, but luckily neither of mine have done it for very long. That is pretty cute that Koko knew how to help her out. It is so hard to stay calm during those episodes, especially when they look so scared. My girls don't do it often, but they always try to come to me for help and/or comfort. Glad Zoe is okay!

Julie & Hannah

[MBK]

Glad Zoe is doing so well overall.

Reverse sneezing is scary - Maxwell does it occasionally. Always freaks me out. It is amazing when you can see communication between animals. I love that part of having two.

Good night.

[logans mom]

How sweet that Koko was looking out for his big sister. Logan did that reverse sneezing and I completely lost it. My much more composed husband called the after hour clinic and described what was happening. They said it sounded like reverse sneezing. Very scary moment. Glad Zoe is doing well.


Love
Debbie & Logan

[addy]

Thank you all. It is sweet how they watch out for each other. Zoe watched out for him when he first came to us and was so sweet to him. It is nice to see them help each other.

The heat here is so bad, I can't really have Zoe out much and both pups are going stir crazy. We are playing puzzles and hula hoop.
Hopefully, the heat wave goes away next week and we can get back to normal.

Cutting back on her metronidazole has been fine. I am torn between trying to cut out the pm dose completely or leaving it as is and increasing her Zeal food.

I think I will increase her Zeal a tad and leave the metronidazole where it is for now. Funny, this is where I was before we started her Vetoryl.
We came full circle the last five weeks.;););)

I almost don't want to know her numbers next week. IMS was very tempted to leave her alone last time and not increase the dose. I still think she is going to need 10mgs BID but maybe I am wrong. We'll see.:confused:

Tonight we are taking oldest grand kid to the little French bistro for dinner. They are having a local artist sing old french ballads. Will be as close to Paris as we get:p:p:p:p

I have not been out on a work night in YEARS. I am so excited.:D:D:D


We're having a heat, a tropical heat wave, the temperature's risin', it isn't surprisin'...................:):):):):):):):):):): ):):):):):):):)

Oh my, life is a song!!!!!!!! Sometimes a book:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Love,
Addy

[logans mom]

Hi addy,

Heatwave it is!!!! We got to 115 degrees with the heat index. I hope Zoe gives you a good report next week. Come on Zoe good numbers for Mom.

Avoir ungrand temsp cesuir !!!!
(Have a good time tonight)


Love Debbie & Logan

[apollo6]

You are so funny at times.
Will blow some of that San Diego ocean breeze your way.:p
Our pups have are more difficult time with any heat as it is.
Have a mini fan by Apollo's bed to keep him cool and cold wet towels on his belly to keep him comfortable.
Sounds like you are having some fun.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[MBK]

Hi, Addy -

Just checking in on you and Zoe. Hope you are both managing well in this extreme heat! It's been around 90 and humid for days in Pittsburgh. I love summer but I wish it were a bit milder. Too hard to take my dogs anywhere at all in this excessive weather.

From what I have been reading, Zoe's treatment iseems to be going VERY well! Or, should I whisper that??? :cool: Anyway, I am happy for you and that gives me encouragement, too!

[addy]

Thank you for checking on us Mary Beth. we are fine, Zoe goes for her dose change stim tomorrow.

I have been unfocused the last week, family members going through unexpected health issues. I have not been able to spend as much time here or really focus.

Until things calm down, I may not be around the forum quite as much. Doesn't mean I am not thinking of all of you, just need to help my family for a bit.

I'll still check in as I can.

Love to you all.
Addy

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

I hope the health issues are not serious. Sorry you are going through an additional stress just when things were going well with Zoe. Always something, isn't it? Hang in there. I'll be sending you positive thoughts.

[MBK]

PS - Thanks for the birthday wishes!

[apollo6]

Will be thinking of you. Hope things get better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Harley PoMMom]

Thinking of you and your family too and I will be hoping and praying that the health issues that your family is going through will get much better.

Take care of yourself, we will miss you and are here for you.

Sending huge loving hugs,
Lori

[jmac]

Addy,
Hope things will calm down for you and that everyone is okay. Thinking of you and hoping you're taking care of yourself too!

Julie & Hannah

[logans mom]

Hi Addy,

I am sorry to hear about the health issues in your family. I am saying prayers that everone will be ok and will be thinking of you.

I hope Zoe does well on her stim. I will miss you.

Love
Debbie & Logan

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way for you and your family. Take care of things in your world and we will be right here when you can come back.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I'm so sorry to hear you are struggling. I too will be thinking of you and missing you. Loads of positive thoughts wrapped around you.
BIG HUG

Love,
Susan

[addy]

Thank you all so very much. I love you all and your support is amazing. It has been a very long day fo me but we got through Zoe's stim, we were at IMS forever; they were back logged with emergencies Zoe was very good even though Koko came along. We had to drive through a bad storm and Zoe got scared in the car, it all was so loud. I told IMS I was expecting to have to increase dose to 20mgs but then Zoe was so good after her stim, so calm, maybe I am worng and she is at 9:rolleyes::rolleyes: Promised me she would call tomorrow with results and she actually signed the rabies waiver. YES:p

Got through the afternoon with my mom and that situation is still worrisome. Two more weeks until I know my granddaughter's worry will be okay. Nothing horrible just concerning and worrisome for me.

Glad Bailey is ok and Logan has no mass. I love good news.

Hugs and love,
Addy, Zoe and Koko

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Addy: I hope you get good news about Zoe today. And lots of healing thoughts for your family and you.

Judi

[Rene]

(((((((addy zoe koko family)))))))

[marie adams]

BIG HUGSSSS!!!!

Family issues take a lot from us. Hang in there like I know you can!!!;)

I still feel like I am not handling it with everything that has happened this year. High stress with work doesn't help at all. I feel like I treat my family so poorly with my attitude. I will hopefully be going to the doctors to just have a good check up and blood work done--kinda sounds like our pups--lets just have some blood work done to find out what's going on....:rolleyes:

I do think about all of you even though I am not posting....Take care of you and yours!!! :p

[MBK]

Thinking about you and hoping all is well.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Thinkin g about you and praying things well get better.
Apollo throws a kiss to Zoe.
P.s don't tell his other girlfriend;)
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Treatment should be monitored with an ACTH stimulation test at 2 weeks, 4 weeks, and 12 weeks after starting therapy (or 10-14 days following any dose change), and thereafter every 3 months.

Does this mean after a dose change you test at 10-14 days and do not test again at 30 days but test at 3 months? quote is from dechra's info page.

10 day stim 7.7 pre 11.2 post on 10mgs

30 day stim 9.9 pre 16.9 post on 10 mgs

14 day stim after increase to 15mgs. 5.8 pre 9.9 post

did not notice big change in any symptoms but it had been extremely hot off and on, so hard to tell what is going on with her. She has been panting more and today she did not want to go outside in the heat and humidty. It seems the humidty bothers her more than the heat. we also had 2 nights of bad storms. yesterday she did not drink much water. she was tired last night.

I could bump her to 20 now or wait.

I thought she had to have another stim in 14 days so I chose to wait.

We rode through that storm going to the vets and the first draw was at 5 hours. It is possible she could have been just 9 or a bit less had we checked at 4 hours and no storm.

I don't need perfect numbers, I have to go by Zoe and I don't want to push her too hard.

hope this all makes sense. my mind is racing faster than I can type.


My thinking is if in 14 days she is creeping up again like last time, I'll go to 20. I am not comfortable taking her to 20 now. My gut talking.

But, does she have to be tested in 14 days or can we wait?

Thanks for all the well wishes:D researching grandaughter's surgery. almost there.:):):)

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Glad the numbers are going down and even more glad that Zoe is doing well!

My reading of the quote is after any dose change, a stim needs to be done 10-14 days after the change.

Hope you see more and more improvements as the days go by! The heat and humidity are tough down here, too. Squirt is not wanting to stay out very much at all right now and she is panting more than she was but I put that down to the weather we are having.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Thanks Leslie,

Also found this on Dechra


Good control is indicated by
favorable clinical signs as well as post-ACTH serum cortisol of 1.45-9.1 μg/dL (40-250 nmo.

I think I will not rethink my gut reaction and stay where we are for 2 more weeks retest and decide. Unless any of you think I should not do that.

I thought every dose change, we started over and tested at 14 days and 30 days.



forgot to mention, the skin on her bald tail is flaking :) that's a good thing. IMS was happy about it

Hugs,
Addy

[BestBuddy]

Hi Addy,

I'm with you! I would wait another 14 days and see where Zoe is at then. You dropped to 9.9 in 14 days after the increase so my feelings are there will be a little more lowering and that might just be the perfect number.:D

Fingers crossed.

Jenny

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Slooooooooooooooow down!:) Take a DEEP breath....now exhale.
We had to test Palmer 14 days after any change...then 4 weeks and then 8 weeks. The longest we ever went was about 10 weeks. If memory serves, other than the first two (4 weeks, then 8 weeks) we mostly were testing based on what was going on with Palmer...hence the shorter periods sometimes.
Hugs.
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Thank you Jenny and Susan,

It is hard to make a snap decision when I have to take the call at work and have just a few minutes to decide. I could have taken the weekend to think about it but Zoe would have gone a day or two without pills. I know that was probably ok but did not want to do that.

My daughter called 3 times last night until I finally told her I could not handle one more problem that night:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Back to my Mom's today and then tomorrow I am unplugging the phone and sitting in the pool if it does not rain.:):):)

Marie- I hate to admit this but I have been living on Diet Mountain Dew, Bunny Tracks ice Cream and orange soda:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Tell you what, together, we will give up one sugar at a time.
Starting Monday, I will give up Bunny Tracks ice cream. What's your ante?:p:p:p:p:p:p

Love you all,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Hope things quiet down for you. Like you between business, my Mom and Apollo I get overwhelmed.
On Zoe, I can't remember what dosage she was on 10?or 10 and 5mg.? I would not jump to 20mg right away. And don't worry if she is off a day or two.Listen to your gut.
Because Diamond back did not fill prescription when they were supposed to 4-5 days, Apollo was off his medication for 4 days without any ill effect. And like Zoe , Apollo is panting allot also. I don't know if it is the heat, humidity or the fact that they tire very easily. I worry it is Apollo's heart. Listen to your body. When you don't take care of your self you can not be there for others. Remember what the plane instructions are you put the oxygen mask on your self then you put the mask on your child. Your are burning the candle at both ends and that is why you just grab what ever is there to eat. I am not so good at taking care of myself either. Will be thinking of you friend.

Maybe we all should have a spa day and have our furballs treat us. With our luck they would be licking our faces.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

With our luck they would be licking our faces.

LOL, Sonja, Koko would be great at this Spa treatment. We took him with us to Zoe's IMS appointment. Every person had to come and say hi to him. Well, he is a people dog so immediately did his "I love people' routine and ended up kicking all their faces which they all loved which made him lick even more:rolleyes::rolleyes: It got to be embarrassing, he just loves people. :p:p:p

Things did not go well with Mom yesterday.:(:(:( Hard place to find myself in:(.

Zoe is doing well and is happy. I will see where she is in 2 weeks, if her cortisol is creeping up again, I'll do the 20 mgs then. I needed more time to observe her, the heat confuses it all for me.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Can I give up Mountain Dew?
(I don't drink it anyway.)
:D:D

[marie adams]

Addy,

I could give up Mountain Dew also since I do not drink it. I try to stay away from soda in general, but on occasion I split a coke from M D with my daughter.:eek: I don't buy it for the house unless people come over and it usually is diet coke they drink and I don't like diet drinks.

Let see what should I give up.....maybe my lemonade????? I will have to finish off the bottle and then.....:p

Sometimes the best decisions are the ones we have to make quickly because the gut feeling is what kicks in and it usually is right. I am glad Miss Zoe is doing good and is happy!!! :) (She knows you need her to be okay so you can concentrate on your mom and daughters problems). I hope you went in the pool even if it rained--duh you would have been wet any ways!!! :rolleyes:

I am so sorry to hear your mom isn't doing so good. So been there and done that--it is a roller coaster when they get older. My mom was a month shy of turning 83 when she died. My dad seems to be hanging in there--made a trip to Florida to celebrate his sister's 85th the end of June.

Hang in there--you know it is hard, but it makes you feel good to help both your mom and daughter--it is just exhausting because of the mental thinking of what to do or say. :o

BIG HUGS -- GROUP HUGS!!!!!

[apollo6]

Just thinking about you. hope you are taking care of yourself.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
Ditto for Sonja & Apollo's sentiments.

Still thinking about what I could give up. The right answer is Coke. I did for 3 years......I'd weight 98 lbs soaking wet if I gave up Coke!! :eek::cool::rolleyes: Welllllll-maybe a tad more than that.;)
Hope your Tuesday is going well. Hope your Mom is better.
Love,
Susan

[Rene]

Addy,

Im so sorry you are not in a good place with you mother right now. I hope the situation will improve for her and wish you the best. Take care of yourself you are a gem. I am so glad for you that Zoe is doing well and is happy. Great news for you at this time!

Love,
Rene & Snoop

[jmac]

Hi Addy,

I just wanted to thank you for the heads-up about the Cushing's Neuropathy info. you have found. I would be interested in learning more about it when you feel like you've found something good.

Hope you're hanging in there and doing okay with everything!

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Thank you all and I will be happy to share, Julie as soon as I find reliable info.

Okay, I decided I will trade Mountain Dew for black tea.:p:p Still no Bunny Tracks but I do admit to one half can of orange soda but it took two days to drink it. :D:D:D:p:p:p:p


Koko thinks he is Lassie. Saturday night my mom fell while at our house and he ran to her and did his bark... bark...bark... like with Zoe to tell her to get up. Only she couldn't:eek::eek: we finally got her up. He was relieved. Three years ago he came to us and if someone would have told me then he would turn into the pup he is now, I would never have believed it. We called him Koko de Loco back then or Dennis the Menace.:D:D:D:D:D

Zoe continues to do well. She is not going as often to pee and she loves her new game of who can get Koko's toy.

It is hot as a pistol (i think the saying is). Zoe is doing short walks every other day. I read on a site to do short walks and build up the time and always rest the muscles, no walk, the following day so thought I would give it a go.

Scheduled next stim for August 10th. I am so glad Zoe is doing well, it is one less worry.

KoKo has to get an appointment for his wellness exam and rabies shot and heartworm stuff. I am going to try a new vet. The one who said he would work with me and IMS for Zoe's Trilostane. Hope we like him.

Love to all and thank you for checking on us.

Addy

[marie adams]

Don't you just hate the "Vet" game we have to play and WHY!!!! Where is the perfect vet hiding????:confused:

Black Tea--I have some mix it with the lemonade and a little vinegar (2t.) The vinegar is suppose to help your skin and a lot things according to my daughter--taste like s...., but you are to dilute it and sip sort of...

I really like orange soda too--Mickey D's always had a good one especially after a night of partying. :D:D

I hope your mother is okay after her fall. Always something....

Koko sounds like a character who I would love to see in action---videos perhaps....:D:D

Have a great day Miss Addy!!!

[Rene]

Ok don't want to shock your system but since were on the subject of breaking bad habits. My husband keeps those danged Moose Tracks in the freezer but thankfully his soda is in the garage.

So, I keep a plastic 2 quart container on the counter and throw a couple herbal tea bags of the Detox or Antioxidant flavor (you dont need much). You don't have to sun tea it because it is herbal tea and you can leave it out for a couple days till its empty. Those flavors have the milk thistle and other herbs we have been giving our cush pups for their liver, kidneys and immune health so what is good for the goose....

I keep Mrs. Mays "Trio" bars on the counter in a bowl. They actually are quite good. They are not like other bars. They are not processed and are just whole nuts and seeds stuck together with some honey. I find them at Price Club, Sams, Henrys, Smart and Final...ect..in a box.

It has really helped when I am overwhelmed and want to reach for my husbands soda and moose tracks. I grab a Trio bar, a glass of milk or some tea in ice, instead!

You have inspired me to go make more tea!
Rene & Snoop

[apollo6]

like all the advice.
Hope you are doing okay Addy. Nice to hear about Zoe.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
Been a little crazy on my end.

[Bailey's Mom]

Ooooooooooooooo........Mouse Tracks..........YUM!!!!
and Phish Food..............
Addy-you sound so much better. That's nice.
I'm interested as to how you like the new vet.
-Susan

[addy]

Does anyone know if Dechra changes the color of their capsules?

First box of Vetoryl, the 10 mgs were red and white. New box of 10 mgs are green and white:o:o:o:o:o

What the hey????? Why would they do that? The box has expiration date of 2/13, clearly states 10 mgs on the front of the box.

Why would they change the color of the capsules?

She has had the new pills for 2 days. Doesn't seem to bother her. I guess I better call the pharmacy just for an answer since it seems odd to me.

Hugs,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

I would call the pharmacy for sure...or Dechra. Changes like that bother me with my own meds and would freak me out with my babies meds! :o:D I don't know if Trilo comes in sealed packaging or if it is packaged at the pharmacy from bulk containers. If it is from bulk containers, that opens the possibility that someone got the wrong container when filling Zoe's order...and, yes, that sort of thing does occasionally happen unfortunately so a phone call is definitely in order. ;)

Good catch, Mom!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

I called and Dechra did not give me an exact answer as to whether the capsule color changed. They just said that if the capsules are still in the blister pack and the blister pack in in the box and the box has the right mgs I should not worry. So why am I still suspicious?

When you look on line the 10mg box has a green color around the mgs, the 30 mgs has a red box around it and the 60 mgs has a black box.

Last month our box clearly said 10mgs but were red and white capsules. I don't remember the color around the box.

Anyone using Vetroyl 30 mgs? What color are they?

I have trust issues, don't I:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[labblab]

I called and Dechra did not give me an exact answer as to whether the capsule color changed. They just said that if the capsules are still in the blister pack and the blister pack in in the box and the box has the right mgs I should not worry.
That is ridiculous that Dechra did not properly answer your question. They most certainly do have that information (at least, SOMEBODY there does!!), and you should have been transferred to the person or department who could give you the correct info. It is not an unreasonable question at all, and packaging errors such as this have been made by drug companies in the past. But FWIW, it looks to me as though all the dosages of Vetoryl capsules are the same color at any give time. For instance, you'll see them all described as being black and white at the time that this ad was published (scroll clear down to the very bottom of the page to see the various capsule descriptions):

http://buysnoprescription.com/drugs-description/vetoryl

[Nika'sMom]

Anyone using Vetroyl 30 mgs? What color are they?

Yes I am using Vetoryl 30 mgs for my Nika...the capsules are black and a cream color...on the cream color part of the capsule it says "Vetoryl 30 mg" .....I hope this helps... hugs Lynda and Nika

[addy]

Thank you both :)

It looked dark green in the dim light in the kitchen at 5:30 am, maybe they are more black then dark green but they sure are not red.

She seems fine and maybe the capsuls are all dark and cream now.

Thanks for checking. I got worried maybe she had 30 mgs originally and now only has 10 mgs. Does not sound like that happened since Linda's 30 mgs are not dark red. Maybe it is me eeeeeekkkkkk!!!!!!

love,
Addy

[jmac]

Addy,
I can totally relate to the worried/nervous feeling. I have begun to second guess, double check, worry about everything related to Hannah's health. I do feel like we have to be good advocates for our furry friends though, so that's what I tell myself when I wonder if someone thinks I am being crazy. Mistakes ARE made, and I would rather be safe than sorry. I would have felt the same way if I were you. Why on earth would that change?!?!

Glad Zoe is doing well!

Julie & Hannah

[MBK]

Addy -

I recently had a drastic change of appearance in one of my own medications. It went from a large pale yellow pill to a very small bright blue pill! The pharmacy put a sticker on the bottle that said there was a change in appearance (no kidding!). I still find it hard to believe it is the same medication, but I've been taking it anyway. :eek: Now, had that been one of Alivia's meds, I'd be researching and making phone calls, so I understand your concern!

I'm glad that Zoe continues to do well!!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Apollo uses 10mg.and the color of the capsole is white and black.
I cann't say anything about another color. I think it always has been that color. The compounded 12mg. is a dark green and white caposole. The 30 mg. is a white and black capsole. Also you should be able to read on the capsole the dosage.
Better cautious. I had my own problem with the pharmacy on reordering. You have a right to question.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

I checked these pills and they say 10mgs on them and in the light are cream and black.

I am confused why I thought the first box was dark red and white. I said every day to myself, Bright red is 5 mgs and dark red is 10 mgs, yup her bowl is right. I can't figure out why I would have thought that for a month.:o:o:o:o:o

Maybe I am color blind now:eek::eek::eek:

I feel stupid.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Okay, let's see, you are under a little stress from work, your mom, your daughter's & granddaughter's situation, and especially Zoe. We don't see everything in black and white (cream)--haha!!! But seriously, our minds think one thing and it is another sometimes. You know how you read something, but it said something different, but you thought it said what you wanted it to say. I have confused the word "fresh" for "free" Christmas trees once at Target--I thought wow I will check them out--what a dummie I was....but you know what I mean....

Good thing the weather will be getting a little cooler so you can break out the "red" sweaters--I am sure that is the direction you were going with the pills--hehe!!! :p

I too wish Carrol would check in so we know how she is doing....

In all seriousiness I would be checking into why the color is different--I am a Doubting Thomas also. I think I have given Ella something wrong each time she doesn't seem like she is feeling well--we just automatically think something is wrong now days. I never worried much with Maddie--oh how weird is this....

So glad Zoe is still doing so well--enjoy!!!!! :)

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!!!! :) I don't want it to be Monday again!!:eek:

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are not color blind. Just stressed like the rest of us.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Rene]

Addy,

If it will help I have a PDR...Physicians Desk Reference...shoot me a picture of the pills and tell me what the markings are on them and I will identify them for you. It also may be in this day and age a PDR may be online now.

Rene & Snoop

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
You can check out pills at this link.
www.drugs.com/pill_identification.html
I've found it helpful when a mysterious pill appears....that does not look like anything we have.
-Sus

[addy]

Thank you Renee and Susan,

i stopped worrying about it. These pills are correct, I don't have the last box of pills to check but her ACTH tests were okay so I will assume it was me for now.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

She has her stim tomorrow anyway. She looks so cute since she had a grooming. I love looking at her little face.:D:D

Why is it, no matter how bad things can get in our persoanl lives, or how stressed or bleak things may seem, our pups can always make us laugh and smile and fill our hearts with joy?

I am truly blessed because I have my two wee one here at home and then I get to go to work and be entertained all day with the two big dogs at my office.

It can't get much better than that:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Rene]

Dear Addy,

That is terriffic news...Go Zoe! Im glad she is your rock right now.

Prayers for your family,
Rene & Snoop

[addy]

Pre 6.4 ug/dl post 14.9ug/dl

I am kicking myself around the block, in trying to minimize side effects for her I am going TOO slow:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I should have bumped her to 20mgs the last stim instead of waiting.

It has been 2 months and 4 stims and we have not been in normal range 1 time. Am I hurting her? I am going too slow.

Start low and go slow, I don't think it was meant to go this slow. I have been so sure until today and now I am so frustrated with myself.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I can't even talk, I am so aggrevated with myself.:o:o:o

[MBK]

Dear Addy -

I am so sorry to hear the results are not what you wanted. But, maybe for Zoe slow and steady wins the race. She is feeling better, acting better and looking better! You have kept her colitis under control and started treatment. Maybe going going slow has allowed her body to adjust to the medication and has therefore caused less negative side effects. Don't beat yourself up! Now you know it's safe to increase and the next stim will be better! You are doing a great job for Zoe and will continue to - I'm certain of that!!!

Sending hugs your way!!! Now try to relax with a glass of Chocovine!

[Squirt's Mom]

Ditto and ditto to Mary Beth!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bailey's Mom]

Ditto, ditto, and ditto

Hugs and love,
Susan

[Harley PoMMom]

I, too, agree with what Mary Beth has said. I truly believe with Zoe's colitis that going slow and low is the best approach. Addy, You ARE doing a great job!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

If I am doing such a great job why do I feel like I'm letting her down? Ims was going to bump her to 20 last stim and I said no. She made a comment today that she was going to put a note in my file for the other IMs for when she is gone that "don't bother trying to figure out what to do with Zoe because Mom (me) has a plan and has researched it and probably knows more about it than we" (we being the vets) do:eek::eek: I felt weird and when the tech called with the results I did not even stop to ask what did IMS suggest I just proceeded to instruct her as to what I wanted to do. I think I have control issues:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

I think I am having a bad day and need to play the "Having a bad day song":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not so smart after all Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

.....and if you had gone ahead an upped her to 20 mg then her colon went bonkers, you would be beating yourself up for not listening to your gut. ;) You are doing the right things, Addy. The improvements all the way around prove that. Taking it slow is without a doubt the very best approach for Zoe and you are handling it perfectly. Now, go take a hot bubble bath with a carafe of Chocovine and tomorrow take the next little step. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang