Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

[addy]

All the snow from the blizzard should be gone by Firday but we have to worry now about it causing flooding. It is in the 40's all week which compared to how cold it was, is a heat wave:p:D

I love to hear stories about Maddie Girl:D Don't worry, you will have her zinnia garden. Work always gets in the way of everything:mad::rolleyes:

Happy Valentine's Day to you too!!!!!!!!! ( I ordered Zoe a new sweater from Etsy for Spring. I figured hubby could not scold me because it is a holiday:p:p:p) It is a bit over the top but I LOVE IT:D:D:D

Hugs,
Addy

[addy]

Seeing IMS tomorrow-trying to get ready-

Questions:

Read that Tylan belongs to macrolide class of antibiotics (mycin antibiotics like erythromycin) does that mean side effects which I previously read were rare and that it is well tolerated would be similar to the mycin antibiotics?

Also read that Tylan does not help stress colitis even though it does state it helps as an anti inflammatory to soothe the large intestine.

Since I already have seen side effects on flaygl/metronidazole at 250 mgs per day at daily use for 3 weeks, I am still trying to figure out how does metronidazole help Zoe if she has colitis from stress/high cortisol?

It stated Tylan will not help that.

Thoughts? Comments? Experiences? Please :D

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Just a hello.
To see how you are.
Going to Vet in 10 min.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi All,

Just got back from an hour meeting with IMS. She answered all my questions half of them I did not get to ask as she already answered them. I feel emotional and mentally drained right now.

The prescription I got from the IMS is to enjoy my dog. She is thrilled that the metronidazole is working for Zoe and that she does not need to add another antibiotic. She prefers it to Tylan because of the cell mediated immunity. She is not worried that Zoe will need a higher and higher dose of it.

Since whatever was bothering Zoe and causing her to lose weight and be ill has improved, we are not rocking the boat at this point.

We are to keep everything the same. I am to stop agonizing over how much metronidazole she needs, stop trying to cut back the dose.:o:o:o

Reviewed Zoe's Cushing symptoms, does not consider that strong or overt.

Continue for 3 months unless there is a change. Review in 3 months.

Reminded me that as we bring her cortisol down, her colitis could get worse and/or we could see other problems cortisol is now masking. Since symptoms are not yet strong, we are not rocking the boat.

I am trying to digest all she told me but I looked her in the eyes and told her how much Zoe means to me and that I have to trust her. She said yes you do and you can trust me because I know how much Zoe means to you and how important this is.

I agreed to trust her. So the journey continues. She did say that if Zoe cannot handle the Lysodren, she will then look at Trilostane for her as an option.

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
My heart goes out to you. Sounds like a good doctor.
Will post on my thread. Just like you I am drained from the last two days with vets.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

It sounds like you found a keeper, and that she has experience with cushings. I'm keeping everything crossed that everything continues to go well.

Take care my dear friend and relax.

(((HUGS)))

Luv ya,

Terri and Corky.

[addy]

Thank you Sonja and Terri,

IMS is a keeper she was so patient with me. Moral support and family member understanding is important in the vet/patient relationship. She was great and she really is smart. She would explain everthing so thoroughly, I did not even have to ask all my questions, she had already answered them.

I am just sad because I had hoped Zoe would somehow be able to be cured. It looks now like Metronidazole will be our daily routine for life.

But the positive is that she is stronger now than in December and she is happy. She is also more affectionate. IMS thought because some of the hormones are now normal or lower, her mood is better and she is not having hot flashes:eek::rolleyes:

Who knew????:rolleyes::rolleyes: Dogs with PMS:eek::eek:

Have to leave it on a happy note. After all it is Friday.:D No more time to be sad:D:D:D

Love you all,
Addy

[addy]

Okay, am I reading more into this than I should? When Zoe got really sick in November and December and was on 250 mgs of metronidazole, she stopped jumping on the sofa. I figured it was her Cushings muscle wasting.

Since then I have cut back on the dosage and for the last ten days, I have been pulsing on and off the night time dose. In the last few days, she has jumped on the sofa 5 times. Yesterday she did it 2 times and this morning she just jumped up there again.:confused:

I don't want to get my hopes up. It is probably some fluke. I thought I had read that flagyl/metronidazole can cause leg weakness. I know I had the neurological side effects for awhile.

Maybe it is just her tummy feels better now. I guess I have to wait and see how it progresses. Just seems odd.

Awwww, she just went to lay near Koko. Her sweetness is coming back.:) They are so darn cute:p:p

Hugs,
Addy

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

I wish I had some answers for you, but I've never used these meds. What you are doing seems to be working. I'm keeping everything crossed that everything continues to improve.

Give Zoe and Koko belly rubs from me. They are so cute.

[apollo6]

Don't even try to figure out. Just enjoy it for what it is.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Sonja, you have wise words of wisdom for sure.

Love ya,
Addy

[addy]

It has been almost one year since we first noticed Zoe's hair not growing back from a grooming and our Cushings journey started.

I have been reflecting back over that year. Last March I was so excited I received Alexandra Horowitz's book Inside Of A Dog, what dogs see, smell and know. I wished I could go back to school and study animal behavior as it fascinated me.

On Zoe's birthday in April, her holistic vet told me Zoe had Cushings based on a UC:CR test which was done incorrectly. It turned out she was right.

Three things happened that day. One: I could no longer read Inside of A Dog's Mind or any other dog book in my library. Two: I suddenly could pronounce and remember the word metronidazole. For two years I called it flagyl even though my vets called it metronidazole because I simply could not remember it for whatever unconscious reason. Three: I stopped writing my book.

Monday, I picked up Inside of A Dog's Mind and started reading it again without the pain and anguish I had felt.

We are now on daily doses on metronidazole.

I still cannot work on my book.

Zoe's is not bald; she is still here and is a happy dog.

Just feeling a need for reflection today and looking inside not only a dog's mind but the human mind. My mind.



Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Like you told me to start drawing again, start writing again. Thank you for your reflection on your journey with Zoe.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

Hi There,

I have been away--that darn work thing getting in the way. I only have a quick moment to write.

Reflecting is a good thing. I keep reflecting to "I remember when..." I mostly am having pretty good days-not so non productive as much. I am still seeing people who don't know about Maddie and I have to tell them--sometimes I hold it together and sometimes not so much. I really am better, but....:(:(

As Sonja said why not go back to writing--it will feel like normal again after 21 days of doing it. If I can go back to walking the trail Maddie and I travelled you can go back to writing. What are you writing about?? You can tell me and get inspired again--hahaha!!!:D

Have a great weekend!!!

[addy]

Wow, Marie you must have ESP because I have been thinking about you and missing you. I was going to Maddie's thread to write to you tomorrow, I have a furlough day.

Did you travel for work? How's the weather and more importantly, how are you???????:D:D:D

I was reflecting on the last year, where we have been, where we came from, where we are now. Business at work has been really slow, very worried about my job for months now. Been there 25 years give or take, not exactly a spring chicken to start over.:eek:

I was thinking of making a batch of doggie ice cream and marketing it to local restaurants that are pooch friendly for the Summer. Then maybe getting one of those ice cream push carts to sell it on the weekends.;) What do you think, girl?

You know Addy, always thinking:rolleyes::rolleyes: And the thinking usually involves dogs.

I can't write, I have writer's block. I can only write short snipets, like a few paragraphs. Maybe I should blog:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Love ya,
Ice cream maker, with writers block ;):p:D:rolleyes:
Addy

[addy]

I finally have time to post this:

I am going to post some of my questions and UTK's answers to them. I would like to share this information with direct quotes so it is clearly transmitted. To recap this relates to my dog. Zoe has colitis, mild Cushings symptoms, mainly bilateral hair loss and now some hind leg weakness. She has been on melatonin and lignans since October. For some reason, her blood work is now all normal with no indications of what you may see in a Cushing Dog. Previously her cholesterol and ALK where elevated but not hugely. She was diagnosed with a UTK panel and an ultra sound by an IMS. My IMS ran the UTK panel because of the hair loss and Zoe having no other symptoms at the time to see where we stood; that perhaps another hormone besides cortisol was causing the hair loss and she had had a ppositive UC:CR. Her estradiol and aldosterone are now normal and her other intermediates have come down. Her cortisol increased. She had been very sick in November and December with her colitis taking a turn for the worse. She is now on daily doses of Metronidazole to control it.

Questions and answers:

Can a dog showing mild symptoms of adrenal disease and also having a concurrent non-adrenal related disease at time of testing show an increase in the intermediate hormones due to the non adrenal disease?

>>>Non-adrenal disease can cause increased hormone levels; particularly 17-hydroxyprogesterone. But, I don’t think you would get the high levels of hormones that you are seeing from non-adrenal disease illness. Any chance that you are using hormone creams? You often see these very high hormone levels in dogs when owners are applying hormone creams, and the dog comes in contact with application sites.

Can a non adrenal disease affect the sex hormones?

>>>The only one that’s been studied so far is the 17-hydroxyprogesterone.

I did consider maintenance dose of lysodren rather than loading with lysodren to see if she can tolerate it. I am worried it will cause Zoe diarrhea as she has such a touchy system.

>>>With the high hormone levels, you probably will need something in addition to melatonin and lignan, and maintenance Lysodren is probably best.

If I do low dose Trilostane will it elevate her Estradiol and Aldosterone?

>>>It will, and they are already high to begin with.

Should I not consider Trilostane at all?

>>>With the profile of hormones that you have, I would prefer maintenance Lysodren along with melatonin and lignans

With cortisol as high as Zoe's in your experience, is a non loading lysodren maintenance dose a viable option?

>>>It certainly would be. There would be two approaches here; 1) you could do a more conservative treatment by continuing the melatonin and lignans, and add maintenance Lysodren; or, 2) you could do the traditional approach where cortisol is very elevated and load the dog to get the hormone levels under control, and then go to maintenance Lysodren.

I had hoped to start Zoe on a maintenance dose of lysodren but I am now concerned that her cortisol is too high for that to help. Do you have a cut off point at which the cortisol is too high for you to recommend that as a treatment option and loading would be the only option?

>>>You can give the melatonin, lignan and maintenance Lysodren, and if you don’t see improvement within 3 months, then you can consider a loading dose of Lysodren at that time. Monitor the cortisol levels in either case, like you would for a true Cushing’s case treated with a loading dose of Lysodren. When cortisol gets down to around 50 ng/ml (5 ug/dL), the intermediates as well as cortisol will be controlled. Estradiol is sometimes an exception to this.


What will do Zoe more harm, elevated cortisol or elevated intermediate hormones? If I have to choose between the lesser of two evils

>>>>This direct quote I did not copy correclty so cannot post now but he said they seem to do the same thing.


I will share Dechra's opinion on my dog at another time. This way we can all see both sides to Zoe's situation.

Again, I want to stress the questions and answers are based on my dog's own unique set of Cushing problems and concurrent health issue.

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Very complex issues you have. I do not blame you for being very cautious about starting the Lysodern. You have no concrete signs to go by. Wish I could be of more help.
I like the idea about the ice cream. I have been thinking about designing a walker for seniors totaly different then out there. Like you, I have been in business for over 30years. will post about Apollo later.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

I know you're trying very hard to make the best decision you can possibly make for Zoe. Making a decision on which treatment to use can be a difficult one. I really hope that you will soon be able to start Zoe's treatment.

(((HUGS))) for you and belly rubs for Zoe.

[addy]

Thank you Terri and Sonja,

I posted the questions and answers so others may possibly glean something from it. I will post Dechra's answers as soon as I have some time to sit down to cut and paste and reread emails.

We have decided to hold off any treatment for two months. Zoe has gained the weight back she lost while ill and is much stronger now. I have not seen any leg trembling when I take her out for short walks up and down the hill. She is doing better on her metronidazole. She gets appx 62 mgs every am and 62 mg every other night. I will try to again discontinue the evening dose or push it to every two nights. I doubt that will work.

Until her symptoms progress, I am going to wait. I really want to change her food. want to change her protein. She has been eating only turkey for 1.5 years now. Changing her food is going to be hard and I have to do it before treatment starts. I remain concerned her system cannot handle bacteria from her raw pattys and have wanted to switch since last June but IMS kept saying no. She now said OK as long as we do it before treatment. I just want to give her colitis a chance to calm down and stabilize as the food change will flare it up again. She was so sick, I want her feeling good for awhile before I push the envelope.

Thanks for helping.

Hugs,
Addy

[labblab]

She is doing better on her metronidazole. She gets appx 62 mgs every am and 62 mg every other night. I will try to again discontinue the evening dose or push it to every two nights. I doubt that will work.

Hi Addy,

I am so glad to hear that Zoe is doing better!! Since that is the case, I am just wondering why you are again wanting to alter her metronidazole dose? I am thinking that your specialist has said that there is no problem with her continuing on the same dose, but maybe I am wrong about that. But if not, since she is doing so well right now, I guess I'm not sure why you would want to rock the boat -- especially since you are hoping to make a dietary change...:o

Marianne

[addy]

You are right Marianne. Absolutely right. I guess I thought if I could get away with the lowest amount of it then when I switch food I maybe would not have to go back to the high dose which caused side effects.

Maybe it is better to leave it as it is and perhaps then the food change won't be as much of a drama.

I did promise to trust the IMS and here I am again planning to not follow her instructions:rolleyes:

Thank you for reminding me:D I do need reminding:o

Do you think I should not change her food? If I don't do it soon, I am afraid it will never happen. Then I will always wonder is the raw food the reason she has to have metronidazole in the first place.

Hugs,
Addy

[labblab]

If the specialist has finally OK'd the food change and Zoe seems to be stable right now, if it was me, I think I'd go ahead and give the change a try as soon as you're ready. As you've said, otherwise you'll always wonder. And this does seem as though it is the time that you have a window of opportunity. I'd leave everything else status quo, though, including the metronidazole. That way, the only variable that you are altering is the food and you'll be better able to judge whether the change presents any new problems.

Marianne

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You have made the best decision for the situation at hand. Like you, I needed to eliminate different possibilities with Apollo. So from Dec 1,2010 through February 25th or so, I stopped treatment on Apollo.
I will post on my thread were I am at. It is a roller coaster ride. We do the best we can. Our fur balls will give us the signs we need to do what is best for them.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[littleone1]

Hi my friend,

I'm keeping everything crossed that everything goes well.

[addy]

Thank you Marianne, Sonja and Terri.

Does anyone have advice on switching from commercial raw? I mean going on to it I know we had the detox period. What happens when you take them off raw? Zoe gets commercial raw turkey patties.

I did a mini test with a different treat to gauge Zoe's reaction. She had no problem. So, I will go slow and make sure she is stable. I don't want to switch to a Hill's prescription diet and want to try Honest Kitchen Zeal as it is a fish protein. I am a bit worried it has too many ingredients in it for her. IMS thought the reason I has so much trouble with the Hill's ID is that it was such a highly digestible food and she did not understand why Zoe's vet at the time even gave it to her when she wasn't throwing up.:confused:

I know when I took my Koko off Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw it took 3 months for him to adjust to Embark and I was switching his food all the time. He does not have Zoe's issues. When we switched to raw with Zoe, I did it cold turkey.

Any input would be appreciated.

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

I saw on a website for aussies where they rated food. One of the high end ones was Dick Patton's dog food. I might have told you about this. If I can remember who it was and find it again I will do a screen shot and send it to you. I would stay away from anything Hill because it is part of the Purina family or maybe that is sciene diet, but I think Hill is one of the commercial brands also. I always found it funny to see science diet in vet's offices.

I went with a no grain brand I think Evo has some and their brand has many different brands in their family of food.

You can continue to give the raw but cut back and add a little dry or whatever it is you will change to--kind of the same method as before.

Good luck with the change over--I think it is the best time to change over--good thinking!!!

Take care!!:):)

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I'm just seeing that you are changing Zoe's food. My dogs have been on commercially prepared raw food for three years and so have all of my fosters. If handled properly, there should be no issue of bacteria. Did something happen that made you think Zoe may be having trouble with bacteria in her food?

My buster had chronic colitis before switching to raw and I was really worried about him being able to handle it. He not only handled it, he's not had one attack since going to raw food and this is a dog that was at the vet's office at least once every three months. We too went cold turkey with no transition to raw and nobody had any bad effects. We've had a few bouts of loose stool on those occasions when I fed them too much kibble as a treat so I'm convinced they would have trouble going off of raw without transitioning very slowly. Be very careful.

[addy]

Hi Marie,


If I am switching from raw is it better to go to a no grain or starch canned? The thing is, I can't switch her to that and then switch again. Whatever I pick is what she is going to be eating the rest of her life. You just can't change her food much. Poor baby. I really like Honest Kitchen. I would rather feed her Honest Kitchen if she can handle it. That is a big if. She has never had fish or sweet potatoes so both would be new. That why I wanted to try Zeal.

I looked at Dick Van Patton's Vension and sweet potato canned. It has minimum ingredients but it has a few different oils in it. I could go back and look at Evo but I think Natura was bought bt Nestle so worry are they going to start changing formulas which is how Zoe started this mess 3 years ago. Maybe I should go back and look at canned protein no starch to refresh my memory. Ims says she needs more fiber. I don't want too much fiber.

I researched all this food last June when I told IMS no Hill's K/D for Zoe. So I was looking for a similar food that I felt better about for her.

Marie, I know Maddie did not have digestive problems- was there any problems for her going off some of the raw food?

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

I never took her off once she started, but at the end she wouldn't eat it so I was making regular chicken and rice adding in the pumpkin to help with the soft stools.

Wow, I don't like the idea of Natura selling out to such a commercial company. It all seems to be about $$$$$.

Talk to you soon!!!

[addy]

Sorry Gylnda missed your post.

I am worried that Zoe's commercial food says right on the package that I should "cook the diet" if my dog has a compromised immune system. I hope that is right, I am at work. Her diet does not contain bone so the bone can't help firm up the stool. It is made by a small local company and the original owner sold the company to the plant that makes the food so NEW owner. Time to pause and be concerned, will new owner=change in food. So when Zoe was diagnosed with Cushings and her colitis would not abate I thought not all dogs can eat raw. She did well for six months and maybe that's it. And I can't rotate proteins, can you feed raw and not rotate proteins?

So now I need BIG SIGH ICON to insert here= Just got done reading Mary Strauss's (Dogaware) email to me and thinking hmmmmmmm. Also got some Stella and Chewy carnivore crunch all freeze dried beef, nothing else but has bone in it for a mini test. Day one she ate 3 tiny pieces= no problem. Day 2 she ate 3 tiny pieces= problem. Day 3 she ate 1 tiny piece mixed with her snack= problem. I thought it is just a different protein, nothing else in it and it even has some bone and she already has soft stool with mucus in it.

I WANT TO CRY, need crying icon to insert here.

Addy

[lulusmom]

So the raw food diet you bought wasn't supposed to be raw? It doesn't sound like it was complete and balanced either. Hmmm? I just changed proteins from chicken to lamb for all eight dogs with no issues at all. Nobody skipped a beat. My four have had duck but aren't partial to it. We still have venison and rabbit if the lamb doesn't work out in the next few months. Buster has been chewing on his back feet again and his facial staining has gotten really bad again. Thought I'd try lamb and filtered water to see if that helps.

[addy]

It is complete and balanced but it is just meat no bone, is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO for all dog stages and is a complete diet. It contains no fruit or veggies. I add 1 tablespoon of Honest Kitchen Embark which is turkey, potato, flax and fruit and veggies. This diet was given to me by a holistic vet. May Strauss just told me in an email since the diet is enhanced with vitamins and minerals, I don't have to worry about switching proteins. I asked her what happens if I cook it and she said I won't ruin the vitamins and minerals though I may lose a few vitamins. It has synthetic vitamins, calcium, minerals. It is meant to be fed raw but you could also cook the diet because it has no real bone in it.

I have a love/hate relationship with it. The love side of me thinks maybe the raw diet is why with Zoe's high cortisol and other hormones maybe her symptoms are not as bad and that is why her blood work is all normal now.

The hate side worries that her colitis is worse because she can no longer handle the raw diet.

I have grilled Mary Strauss about the diet last year and she thinks it is complete and Zoe is maybe lacking in some Omega 3 from it but that is all. I am again having a conversation with her about it as I know all the research she has done. I read all her articles.

So there you have it. I sure don't want to send Zoe into a major problem which could result in the metronidazole not even being enough to help her. I am disheartened that she could not even handle the little bit of freeze dried beef.

Her food is Nature's Menu Lake Geneva Wisconsin. I will look for a link.

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
NOw you are a doctor and cook, a therapist, etc.
:eek::D
I could use a crying icon also.
Can't give you much input on the food.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Yup, Sonja, quite the resume:eek::rolleyes:

Get this, yesterday I forgot to give Zoe her melatonin in the am but she had it last night. Her poos were fine last night. I gave her no new anything and this morning her poos were mush.:mad:

WHAT? Because I skipped a dose of melatonin? Really?:confused::mad: WHAT? I don't get it, I never got it and I still don't get it. Zoe's colon makes no sense to me AT ALL:eek::eek::eek:

Failing medical student Addy who is not a good dietitian either

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You are doing the best you can. I sometimes can't remember if I have given Apollo which medication or supplement and then have to accept that it is okay.
I have my sweetie resting his head on my arm, holding him very tight.
We just lost another, little Otis. :( My other friend just put her dachie down two days ago. And boy am I crying.:(
Will try to close the cushing drawer over the weekend.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
At this stage of the game every day is a gift with these angels.

[marie adams]

Hi There Miss I Wear all Sorts of Hats of Everything,

I can honestly say I do not miss having to wonder about dog food or any of the stressing out about it, but I do feel really bad for you having to go through this.

My stress was I just lost my Mother last Thursday. She battled a lot of things, but she couldn't fight any longer. She was 82 so she got to experience a lot of life, just not such a good life these past couple of years, but she always seem to pull through....:(:(

My family also had our annual trip to Mammoth and Maddie had gone with us the past 5 years, so a little sad to see the places we would walk. The picture of her is from our trip 2 yrs ago. She loved the snow....:D:D I don't see how they tolerate the cold on their paws...:confused:

Well, I hope you finally figure out the diet situation and both you and Zoe feel better.:):)

[marie adams]

Hi There Miss I Wear all Sorts of Hats of Everything,

I can honestly say I do not miss having to wonder about dog food or any of the stressing out about it, but I do feel really bad for you having to go through this.

My stress was I just lost my Mother last Thursday. She battled a lot of things, but she couldn't fight any longer. She was 82 so she got to experience a lot of life, just not such a good life these past couple of years, but she always seem to pull through....:(:(

My family also had our annual trip to Mammoth and Maddie had gone with us the past 5 years, so a little sad to see the places we would walk. The picture of her is from our trip 2 yrs ago. She loved the snow....:D:D I don't see how they tolerate the cold on their paws...:confused:

Well, I hope you finally figure out the diet situation and both you and Zoe feel better.:):)

[marie adams]

You can tell I am out it because of it didn't send fast enough the first time and BAM it sent again....technology....it is so funny to reread the text that go through with auto correct....on the cellphone

If you want a laugh go to www.damnyouautocorrect.com it is hilarious some of the text that go through.

[addy]

Marie,

I am so sorry about your Mom. I am so sorry to hear this news. I can't even find the right words for you. My deepest sympathy to you and your family. My mom will be 87 later this month. I know, it gets hard.

I thought you were busy with work so did not check in on your post to say hi.:(

Not sure what I will do with Zoe and her food. Mary Strauss thought I should try a bit of the Zeal, not retry the Carnivore treats. Since speaking with her I have calmed down about the bacteria and not rotating proteins. We have been seeing more people and dogs outside and the snow is melting. Zoe has had on again of again, softer poos with what I think is mucus (could be fat) this week. Not sure if she is lickiing stuff off her paws or stress from seeing more strangers and dogs as she is reacting to them again. She was so calm for awhile. Maybe her tummy hurts again from the not so great but not awful poos. She has been sleeping all night with us in bed this week. She only does that when she does not feel good.

I am going to cut back a bit on her food. I think hubby is sneaking her extra cooked turkey when I am not home:rolleyes: Maybe she is getting too much food. Her tummy is pretty round and I don't want her to put on too much weight.

Funny how the problems keep switching, for 2 months she was losing weight, now she is gaining weight.:eek::eek::rolleyes: I have not changed the amount of food through all of this.

Thanks for stopping in Marie. I posted o your thread. And I just want to say again how very, very sorry I am to hear the news of your Mom.

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Just checking in how you and Zoe are doing.
Don't know what to say about the food. For me I am giving Apollo more treats just to get him to walk and now I have to worry about him gaining weight. He is also licking his front paw and still has gas.

Sorry about Maria's loss of her mother. My mother is 79 and it gets harder.
Hug Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Reading a quote from PHD DVM Associate Professor of Physiology and Pharmacology:


Probiotics are extremely safe but we avoid giving them to dogs with weakened immune systems---- their weakened immune systems might not be able to cope with the bacteria.

Holistic vet put Zoe on Culturelle about 2 years ago. Mary Strauss told me I should try a probiotic that was not a human one but more for dogs. I will have to look up the names she gave me.

Question

Should we not be giving Cush dog s probiotic? Is anyone giving human probiotics? I had Zoe on the vet prescription one but it was made from some unknown animal digest whatever the heck that meant so stopped it. Then vet gave me Culturelle.

Comments PLEASE?

hugs,
addy

[addy]

wow guys, I know I must be brain dead I had a really hard day at work.
i posted a question about probiotics but I sure can't find it where the heck did it go?

if anyone finds it, please let this tired, out of it person know.

dang, what did I do now?

wait there it is down there under topic review how come it is not on my last page?

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP:eek ::eek:

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I have been giving Apollo probiotics for over a year because of his weak immune system per the vet. I have gotten from my vet. see below. But there are all brands out there. I would ask my vet.

http://www.rxvitamins.com/pet/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=7

Just a little discouraged about Apollo's progress at this time. Wonder if all the supplements, herbs, vitamins are helping. I guess I just need to sit with it for now.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

That is what I thought too, Sonja, which is why I did not understand the vet's comment about not giving to a dog with compromised immune system.

Zoe's is Lactobacillus GG. I guess I will see if that bacteria is in a dog's stomach.

I just bought Zoe a gonoughts toy. If she chews through it I get a new one. Wanna bet she chews through? Kinda like the tiger proofed toys that Koko shredded:rolleyes::rolleyes: They were tiger tested but not Koko proof.

Love,
Addy

[addy]

Any advice on how to switch Zoe's probiotic? I just bought ark naturals prebiotic and probiotic recommended to me by holistic pet store and others.

Zoe has been taking Culturelle daily. Do I just make the change or do I stop the old probiotic for a few days or a week and then start the new one?

I googled it but did not find an answer. It is a different bacteria than culturelle.

Hugs,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You might do it like you do when you switch diets. Start giving less of the old and start adding in the new. But I would first ask the vet. With the delicate stomachs our little ones already have , I 'd ask the vet. There are a lot of Probiotics out there. The trick is getting it from a reputable company.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

When I took her off the Fortiflora, i waited a month and then tried Animal Essentials which her holistic vet said was good. Then her holstic vet said try Culturelle. I can't remember how I switched back then. Mary Strauss is saying try a new one which has bacteria more common in their gut and it has the prebiotic and holsitic pet store owner says this Ark Natural is their best selling brand.

I'm thinking of just stopping the Culturelle and wait a bit and then switch. I'll do every other day this week, then 2 times following week, then stop, wait a week then start new one.

I picked up some Honest kitchen Zeal samples for her to try but wanted to try switch probiotics before the new food.

IMS said I could try probiotics and I told her I was using Cultuelle. If I can't make this switch I will call her. I did not want to go back to the Fortiflora.

Did you get your from holistic vet or tradional vet? Maybe I will post thread under "everything else"

Hug,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I got my probiotics from my holistic vet, put I think regular vets might have also. If it were me I'd get it from the holistic first and if it works then see if I could order it online cheaper.
You may have different brands on the east coast versus the west coast.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Addy-
I know nothing about any of this.....but I'm here in case hugs are needed!
-Susan

[addy]

Thank you Susan and Sonja.

I skipped her Culturelle last night since it was a metronidazole night. So far it did not seems to bother her but with Zoe it always has a delayed reaction by a day or two. I keep reading up on probiotics and the different strains. I take them myself. The traditional vet has another one to try other than the Fortiflora so I can ask IMS about that one if this strain does not work. Our holistic vet does not give prescription ones that I know of.

We were up all night with bad storms. Poor Zoe is tired, she is afraid of thunder.

Happy Monday!!!!!! Thank you for checking in with us.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Bailey has not experienced a thunderstorm yet, but she is in for some doozeys. I guess it's because we are at the ocean, but the thunder claps here in the summer would scare anyone silly. They can give me a start. I used to have to go to our bedroom with Palmer, close all the shades and turn on the tv and talk to him to distract him. When we had our first dog, she would jump into the tub, behind shower doors, and shake and shake. Poor things. And pant too.

Hey-I saw Bailey pant for the first time today. Cool!

Here's wishes for a good rest for Zoe.

Love,
Susan

[addy]

Hi Susan,

Thanks for stopping by:) Zoe seems to be doing well so far with the Culturelle dosing on again off again, which is amazing since I have tried it before and was never successful with it. Only time will tell, I guess:rolleyes: I never know with Zoe. The melatonin helps her with the thunderstorms so I am thankful for that.

I hope you take lots of photos of Bailey's shower. Can't wait to see them.:D:D:D:D

Hugs,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-unfortunately I got pictures of all the attendees but none of Bailey going crazy. It was just too hectic.

-Susan

[marie adams]

Now Wednesday is almost over so I hope no more storms for a while, but we might be sending some that way. Thunder showers on Friday is what they are saying--sorry Zoe. Maddie hated fireworks--really bothered her the last few years. Sometimes the thunder would bother her a little. My husband had taught her to bark when she would hear toy guns or paintball guns firing so the kids would know they were riding through and not to shot them--my husband would have killed them (well not really) if he or Maddie got hit with a paintball.

I hope all stays good with Zoe!!! Isn't is almost Spring????:D:D

[addy]

Hi Marie,

It is so nice to hear from you. The calendar may say spring but the weather here in WI is not cooperating:mad:

Zoe seems to be handling the detox off Culturelle which is a shocker:rolleyes: But one of the pups, my guess is Zoe, had a potty accident two afternoons in a row when hubby was home.:eek: He did not see her do it. I am worried now. She has not had an accident in a long time and it seems funny it coincides with the Culturelle detox, or is that just me?

Of course, Susan and I think it might be hubby had the accident and is blaming the dogs:p:p:p

Sending lots of love your way, Marie, and if you need a GROUP HUG we can put it on the calendar:D:D:D






Hey Susan,

The cake is beautiful and the shower sounds like a big hit!!!! I loved your description of the sea and the black sky. I felt like I was there with you:)

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

:)Hey Addy-
You know what is on it's way to you know where via USPS.:)
You're welcome to join us watching the sea and the sky........Sunday and Monday are supposed to be gorgeous!
Where is spring, anyway??!!

-Susan:confused:

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking up. Still don't understand why vet would say about probiotics. I take them myself also.
Apollo may be a little to calm. The last minor earthquake we had in the middle of the night, Apollo didn't even react. :eek:
Will post on my thread about Apollo's therapy and pictures of his treatment.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Sonja and Susan,

Susan- Thank you for the package. I will be on the look out:D
Monday night I will go outside and look at our sky and remember your words and we will share skies:D

Sonja- I will go check out the photos and read your thread. Something has changed with Zoe this week. I hope it is all a fluke.

Thank you both for checking in and I hope you have a wonderful weekend!!!! Love you both:)

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Sonja and Susan,

Susan- Thank you for the package. I will be on the look out:D
Monday night I will go outside and look at our sky and remember your words and we will share skies:D

Love,
Addy

It's a date! :D See you on a star!! :)
Love,
-Susan

[marie adams]

Oh dare I missed Monday night to share with you guys!!!! :(

There are lots of puppies being born so I will have lots to choose from, but the hubby wants to check them out first because he said my daughter and I will fall in love with the first aussie pup we see...:D:D Still need to spread the zinnia seeds--so many things going on!!!

I hope Zoe is doing okay with the hubby blaming her for the little surprises--haha!!! But really I do hope she is better. Maddie never had the accidents in the house even at the end--pride...I guess.

I will never turn down a (((GROUP HUG))) we all need them!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Hope Zoe is doing better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Marie and Sonja,

Thanks for checking on us. Zoe has had a bit of a strange week or two. I can't equate it to stopping her probiotic; I think it is just a coincidence, but that is when it started.

We may have to start our lysodren sooner than we thought. I have been having a hard week or two. Her birthday is Sunday and she has been "off" and it has all set me into a tailspin. Last year on her birthday they called me to tell me they thought she had Cushings. I did not want to be superstitious this year but she is just not herself.

Marie- how exciting you are looking for puppies. I am sending BIG BIG HUGS your way.

Sonja- hoping Appolo's stim and therapy go well this week.

Love you both.
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I'm sorry for your concern about Zoe. That is all still so fresh for me. My son called earlier to hear how our vet visit went today and after I told him he asked me how was I doing? I said I was better now that we'd seen the vet....but that by the time I went to bed (for 3 hours) last night, I practically had Bailey 6 feet under.:eek:
What does "a strange week" mean?
Big Hug being sent your way.

Love,
Susan

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

You need the ((((HUG)))) today!!!!:):)

I know that feeling with the birthday--that was the day Maddie had a hard time getting up. How old is Zoe going to be on the 17th? Where is the faith that things will be okay??? Another (((HUG))) needed here!!!

Here's hoping it is really nothing but just a bad week for Miss Zoe and you...:D

I DON'T WANT TO WORK TODAY!!!!!

[addy]

I DON'T WANT TO WORK TODAY!!!!!

I did not either it was a LONG WORK DAY:(

Thanks for the hugs Marie and thanks for checking in Susan. You have your own hands full along with no sleep.

It started last week. We had some dying, old trees cut down in the front yard so now you can see the road and people and dogs and lots of exciting things. One of the dogs had a potty accident in the living room 3 times in a week. It was always at the same time when the door was opened right before dinner. Both dogs were taken out and they both peed so not sure which one.

Zoe always sleeps till between 5:00 and 5:30. She gets up and cries by the bedside wanting to be lifted up. If she gets up at 5:00 I tell her go back to bed and she does until 5:30. For 3 mornings in a row she did not do that, I heard her get up and go in the den and start chewing on her toy at 5:00 am. Sunday it was really hot out of nowhere and she had a hard time outside. Was very slow. Last night I came home from work and she just wanted to sleep on her new bed in the living room. She acted very tired very early after dinner. Again not normal pattern. Then this morning she did the exact opposite and I had to wake HER up at 5:45am, she was sound asleep.

We have had the door open and they have been watching their "DOG TV" as I call it. They love to watch out the door. Hubby thinks Koko peed in the living room out of excitement over seeing stuff. It is all new for them with the trees down. But then why was Zoe up chewing in the den at 5:00 instead of waking me up? Then she hurt her paw the other night and had been limping for a few days. It is better today.

Maybe it is the weather change and all the new todo on the road. Koko gets all worked up. It is just strange. She is just strange and not doing her normal stuff.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Maybe Zoe is being affected by the seasonal change. I don't think Zoe knows how to read time, so she has to go on whether or not it's getting lighter or darker outside. I can understand the tired feelings.I would just keep an eye on her and not worry too much at this point. It all just sounds like the benefits for Zoe of not having to run your life by a clock.:)

Love,
Susan

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Sometimes I feel what would not bother me before Cushing's if Apollo did something different , it would not bother me so much. Just take your clue from Zoe. You know her better then anyone else. And see if things go back to normal.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you guys. I guess it just started my twitcher going BIG TIME.

That and to many outside stressors happening again. Too many birthdays including those who ae no longer here with me.

So then when a dog does something for 14 months EVERY DAY and thens stops?:eek: Well, I jump to: BRAIN TUMOR, OMG:eek::eek::mad:

Maybe it was the unexpected warm spell. It is freezing cold again and she was perfectly normal this morning, waking me up.


Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Happy Birthday Miss Zoe!!!:D:):p;)

[addy]

Thank you Marie. Miss Zoe is back to her normal schedule since the cold weather returned.:D:D:D Her tail is really, really bad though.:eek:

I will call the IMS to see what we have to do for starting her maintenance dose of lysodren. I don't think we have time to change her food. It will take too long.

I cut back her raw by 1/2 ounce per day. I have my Zeal trial sizes but I don't think we'll get that far. I'll see what IMS thinks about it.

Have a wonderful Sunday!!!! Lick-a-dee Splits. Ice cream banana split like treats for dogs. Think about it:p:p:p

LOVE,

Addy, Koko and the Birthday Girl;)

[apollo6]

Happy Happy Birthday Zoe
Each birthday we celebrate with our fur balls is a blessing.
Zoe hope you get your face full of birthday treats.:D
Hugs and kisses
Sonja and Apollo

[Franklin'sMum]

Happy Birthday Zoe!!! :) :) :)

Hope you have a wonderful day! (And your mom too) :)

Hugs, ear scritchies and tummy rubs,
Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey xxx

[addy]

Thank you Jane and Sonja,

The birthday girl is crashed out sleeping in this morning. Too much birthday, I think:D We did have a wonderful day.

I don't blame her for not wanting to get up, it is actually SNOWING and the white stuff is STICKING :eek::eek::eek:

Spring in Wisconsin-go figure:mad::mad:

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

I give up on weather!!!!:eek: Saturday it was beautiful and Sunday it tried, but cold. Today is over cast and 62 at the beach. I suppose you would take the 62 and overcast without the snow even though it is beautiful to see fresh white snow. Then again you might be over the snow and I hardly ever see it but once a year when I choose to see it up close and personal.:D:D

Guess what ZINNIAS seeds planted yesterday. If the weather cooperates we might see them sprout in a couple of weeks--keep the fingers crossed.:o

I like the Lick-A-Dee Splits--now what can we use to look like chocolate, but isn't--carobs???? Such a Good Idea...:)

Have a wonderful week--Retirement doesn't that sound nice, but then if we do not have the dog treats we will get bored--Not!!:D

[addy]

Yup, dried bananas and carob for the chocolate but I haven't figured out the whipped cream:p:p:p

They are talking 10 inches an hour north of us tomorrow and they just better be SO WRONG ABOUT THAT:mad::mad:

I am so over the snow, I want to move plants around. I love moving plants around:D:D

Addy, tiller of the soil, keeper of the garden, nature at its finest-----

Okay well that is a bit much and not really me, but I do like to move plants!!!!

Thanks for stopping by Marie.
Love ya,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just a quick hello. Glad Zoe had a great birthday.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
See? Zoe's birthday came and went (oh-by the way-Happy Birthday Zoe!!:cool:;)) and nothing bad happened. We just get gun shy sometimes.:)
10 inches per hour?? :eek: Are you kidding me??:eek::eek: Has it happened? I'd just love a snow (not now) that was 10" deep, total.
How is Zoe doing? When is the visit to IMS?
Make a snow angel for me!!:D
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Hi Sonja and Susan,

Thank you for saying hi to us.
The weather today is nuts!!! Thunder then hail then snow then ice then rain, we are to have this all night and all day tomorrow:mad::mad::mad:

Saturday we were doing Village Clean Up Day and we had cleaned out a file cabinet in the basement. We put the papers in a plastic bag to take to the Village shredder and sat it on th floor next to some other stuff we were caring out to the car. Zoe tore into the bag looking for food, I guess. The papers did smell a bit musty but still, she never did that kind of stuff before. I don"t know if she ate any of the plastic so I keep waiting for her colitis to flare. Tonight her poo was mushy but that could be the thunder or the umentionable chew toy she had for her birthday.;)

Always something:eek::eek::eek:

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

dear Addy
I think it is a dog thing. Apollo is always looking to eat or investigate anything on the floor.
HUgs Sonja and Apollo
The poop is never the same anymore.:eek:

[addy]

think it is a dog thing. Apollo is always looking to eat or investigate anything on the floor.

Sonja,

You don't think it is her Cushings? The chewing and licking too, I really think this is all her uncontrolled cortisol:eek::eek::eek:

It has been too cold to leave the door open so we have not had another potty accident. She has a white pimple on her bald tail:eek::eek:

There goes that darn twitcher again!!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Leslie, I need you for twitcher control:o:o:o:o

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
The licking is probably the Cushing. Apollo started licking one paw so much the hair is off and I had to squeeze the ingrown hairs out of it.
The white pimple on Zoe's tail is part of the Cushing skin problems, it could either be the calcium deposits or the ingrown hair. Apollo has them all over his belly and his tail. He also has dark skin batches. I hate it.:mad:
Wish I could be more help.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[jmac]

Does Zoe do a lot of licking? Hannah has always done some licking (and we think she has some summer allergies) but she has licked like crazy all winter. It's mostly her feet (front and back, but mostly front), but she also licks/bites her hips and back legs a bit. She is kind of an anxious dog, so my vet thinks it is partly a mental thing. I just feel like it has increased. She will go at it like crazy on her front feet (both the top and bottom of them) for about 30 min., but then she can stop and not do it again for hours. The licking/biting of the back feet is a bit newer. Just curious if you are seeing something similar.

Julie & Hannah

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Palmer licked his feet horribly in his last year or two.....we were told it was an allergy. They gave us Vistaril to give him and it calmed it down.....to where it stopped. We stopped the Vistaril and everything was still okay. Months later it came back up and we did the same thing. He licked his paws so badly that they were inflamed. You could try a children's Benadryl. That's what we gave Bailey on the way home, once she got car sick. We used the liquid and gave her just a capful or so.
I'm sorry you're experiencing so many symptoms. Palmer also developed bumps. Peaches (our earlier dog) got those bumps as she got older as well. They aren't anything bad.....just bumps.
Love,
Susan

[addy]

Thank you Susan,

How long did it take for the benadryl to work? One day, a week? Did you give it with the melatonin? My concern is benadryl makes her tired and she has all that melatonin in her. I tried an antihistamine last Summer for 2 days when she was not on full dose yet of melatonin, it did nothing.

I really think it is her cortisol, I really do.

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hello There Miss Addy,

I do not remember Maddie licking her paws more than usual as much as she would lick the floor and rugs which she didn't do before the Cushings. She developed rough spots/bumps on the lower back of one of one of her hind legs--looked like a callous, but in a place she wouldn't normally have one. I remember the vet was a little stumped on that one and just said some dogs get it some don't--I really think she didn't have a clue what it was--another "they are getting older and this is part of it"....:eek::eek: I hated that answer!!! She also had the little blackhead looking bumps or like you just shaved some dark hairs look on her belly in spots--didn't have those either before CD.

I still have the meds when you are ready. Do you think yogurt might work if they seem like hot spots? Just a thought of going natural. I am not sure it will not make her colitis flare up though.

Have a Happy Easter!! ((HUG)):)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
You may be right about it being the cortisol. I don't know about that. I was just offering a similar circumstance and how we treated it. I do not think Palmer was taking Melatonin then. I think the Melatonin was near the end.....and the itching/chewing was 18 mos - 12 mos earlier. It took probably 3-5 days before it took effect. Then we kept her on it for another good two weeks.
Take care, gal-
Love & hug-
Susan

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Like you , Apollo started the licking on one front paw, the hair is almost gone there, the skin is very pink. I squeezed out pus like ingrown hairs. I think you are right about Zoe's licking if she didn't do before, then it is the cushings.
I have a lot to research on Apollo's elevated sex hormones on what to do now.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hey Best Friend,

I sent you some emails:D

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hey Best Friend,

I sent you some emails:D

Love,
Addy
Who....me??? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Love
Susan


(just kidding)

[addy]

Do you want some emails Susan?;) I'll see what I can do:D:D:D
Thanks for the info on the antihistimine. Maybe I did not give it enough time last summer.

How is that Little Miss Bailey? Did she get an Easter basket? Zoe was trying to get at all the plastic eggs I hid in the yard for our youngest grand daughter. Boy, she could smell that candy right through the plastic eggs!!!!

Cushings sure turns them into a Hoover vacuum cleaner:eek:

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Bailey woke up not feeling so well today. It probably has something to do with the pine cone she was eating.:mad:
Then she had a bout of diarrhea and vomited a bit. That was 5-6 hours ago and she seems fine now.
^That was yesterday........I don't know why I didn't get to finish it.:confused:

[addy]

Heard back from Dr. Petersen on his thought of Dr. Oliver's suggestion for Zoe to add maintenance dose of Lysodren for 3 months. Any thought on his suggestion?


In dogs with Cushing's disease, you must use a daily loading protocol in order to adequately destroy enough of the hyperplasic adrenal cortex. It's quite unlikely that starting with a weekly maintenance dosage of mitotane would do much at all to lower the high serum cortisol concentrations in your dog.

But you don't necessarily have to use the standard loading dose for mitotane of 50 mg/kg per day. You could try a lower daily dosage of 20-25 mg/kg (with food) to evaluate the effect.

I have read her numerous times low dose load for small dogs don't work. I am going to have to do something soon. Zoe is getting stronger symptoms. Spring is here. Ims said she'll go to Trilostane if she can't handle the Lysodren. Remember Lysodren is the drug she has experience with.

Thanks,
Addy

[marie adams]

Good Morning Addy,

Do we have to go to work today??!!

I know at the last we upped Maddie's dose to see if that would bring down her numbers. I had read it wouldn't do anything to bring them down just a little because a loading is what really does the trick:o, but it did bring them down. Of course I do not know if having the cancer played into this because I really thought when I took her back for the ACTH test it was going to show they went up or stayed the same.

I think it just depends on the dog in each case. What will happen is you will be paying for more tests to see if a maintenance dose works first off or you will have to do a loading. I think if you do a loading with the lower dose--not a bad idea too. Oh I have been a real help here...

I hope you have a wonderful day!!! ((HUG)) Now it will for sure be a wonderful day--hehehe!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

I definitely agree with Dr. Petersen that a daily loading protocol needs to be done with a dog having elevated cortisol.

As far as his suggestion to start at a lower loading dose I think one has to take into consideration that this lower loading dose protocol will most likely take a dog longer to load.

So I believe the question is: Will doing a lower loading dose over a longer period of time or would the usual loading procedure of closer to 50mg/kg/day over a shorter period of time cause Zoe's colitis to flare up. I would talk this over with your IMS and see what her thoughts are on this.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

She's never loaded a dog with colitis.:( She's thrown around different ideas, she may load 3 days on, 3 days off, load at a lower dose, do maintenace at a higher dose. She said once I give her the go ahead she will decide what she will do.:eek::eek::eek:

I would feel better knowing the plan a head of time but maybe it is better I don't have time to think about it.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

All I know is
1- Zoe has shown a low tolerance to some drugs in the past

2- She may tolerate something new for a few days but the longer she has it the more chance of her flaring

3- I have to rule out starting with triolstane- no vet with experience which freaks hubby out.

4- The melatonin and lignans seems to be controlling her estradiol- she is not as crabby and reactive to strangers and stopped looking for cold places to lie down and loves snuggling in her new beds.


Man, I feel like a broken record, I am tired of playing this 45 :D
or in the modern word DVD;)


Yes, Marie, unfortunetly we have to work today:mad::mad::mad: And as you can see I am working very hard!!!!!:p:p

[littleone1]

Addy, my friend, I really wish I had some words of wisdom for you. Since I've never used Lysodren, I really can't give you any advice.

I know this is a very difficult decision for you. I know you'll do what's best for Zoe.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi ya. Addy!

I have no experience with Lysodren. I do wonder about a vet who tells you...once you give me the go ahead, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT???
Our former vet had no experience with Cushings.....that didn't particularly bother me because the "other" vet never agreed with me that something had to be wrong with Palmer. This was NOT just loose stomach muscles. I knew she was consulting with various docs and was doing a LOT of reading on her own. This was a group effort--that was clear.
We came down to Lysodren or Trilo. I struggled with that a while. I chose to go with the Trilo because she said it would be "easier" on Palmer. We never went to Lysodren....the Trilo worked fine.
So what does all that do for you?......You know Zoe better than anyone else. I would be needing a definitive plan, first. It can be one that is subject to revision, but where are we headed and how do we judge success? This does get to be an enormously expensive treatment. All the tests and then more tests. Try this then more tests. What really makes it rough, I think, when you're trying to make this decision is that you have no idea how much further the future will go....nor how it will look.
Do your research. Get comfortable with a vet. Put it down on paper if that will help. Soon something will "speak" to you and you will make your decision. You make the best decision you can make based on the information you have. That's all you can expect and ask for. Try something....whatever you think is best and know that you are not stuck with that. If it seems not to be working, you can revisit the situation. After only 3 or 4 months on Trilo I was not happy with the results. It started our great then started going down again. I pressed the vet to go to Lysodren. She wanted me to give it some time. I felt like there was a ticking bomb about to go off and I didn't want to wait to "give it some time." She finally pushed back and told me what I wanted to do was not what she felt was the best treatment plan. If we wanted to do Lyso, we needed to go elsewhere. However, if we went to get a second opinion and that opinion agreed with us, she would continue treatment. That was fair......after all I HAD chosen her for out vet. We never reached the place of getting a second opinion....the Trilo, once adjusted, started to make the needed changes.
I know how you love Zoe. I trust you will make the best decision for you and your circumstances and Zoe's welfare. Don't worry about feeling like you're a ping pong ball going back and forth from time to time. It happens to all of us, I think.
Finally.....as I did not appreciate how I needed to do this, enjoy each and every moment you can have with Zoe. That may mean snuggling up for a nap. It may mean going for a walk. Just know that we are all dealing with older dogs and ours are sick. Don't live your life in fear, but do appreciate every moment you can.
I'm here for you, gal.

Love,
Susan :)

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I know you are going through a difficult time with what is right for Zoe. You have a right to question everything. If it feel off balance to you then it is.
Have you email Dr. Allen from Dechra, Vetoryl about Zoe's ailments(colitis),sensitive to medication, and if she would be able to use it. Even our vet in Reno said she preferred Trilostane because you can go off it easily.
The question is if Zoe does have high cortisol reading despite the high sex hormones can she try Trilostane. Even if the doctors don't have experience with Trilostane you have a hugh resource of users on this site to guide you.
If her cortisol levels are low then no on the Trilostane because it will lower her cortisol more.
All I know is Apollo did well on the TRilostane and I will email Dr. Allen about his high sex hormone readings but I think I will try to stay with the Trilostane.

hear is a link to specialists in wisconsin
http://www.acvim.org/websites/acvim/index.php?p=228
I am hear for you friend.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you all for caring.. Zoe's cortisol is pretty high, last UTK panel in January 2011, it was 40, Dr. Oliver said some of that could be from her being so ill the previous 2 months prior to testing but most of it would not be from an illness other than Cushings. June 2010 her cortisol was 32. She was in the middle of flare then as well. She is always sick when we test her:(

I don't want to give up the melatonin and lignans. I feel they are helping her. Her UTK panel showed it helped. She was barely on the right dosage for 3 months and it already had helped. That tells me I am on the right track. Even her blood work improved. It was normal for crying out loud. If she did not have colitis, I would load her without thinking about it twice.

After talking with Dr. Peterson, whom is like the other Cushings guru next to Dr. Feldman, I am leaning toward loading her as he suggested.

I would just feel better if I could understand why Dr. Oliver truly believes a maintenance dose without loading is an option for Zoe even with her sky high cortisol. That is my sticking point. I have tried for 3 months to reseach that and come up empty except for Dr. Oliver believing it. If someone knows how he believes it could work, please let me know.

Love you all,

Addy

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I too agree with Dr. Peterson and to tell you the truth, it bugs me that Dr. Oliver is suggesting maintenance doses of Lysodren to members whose dogs have typical cushing's. Zoe has more than a moderate elevation of cortisol and a maintenance dose of Lysodren isn't going to do diddly. If your vet's lack of experience with Trilostane is the only reason you've eliminated it as a choice, just remember that you aren't alone. We have a pretty good amount of collective experience here and you have lots of friends who can guide you and your vet. I've told you this a number of times already but if I had a dog with colitis and mild symptoms but felt compelled to treat, I'd definitely choose Trilostane over Lysodren.

[MBK]

Hi Addy,

Even though I'm new at this, I have been researching a lot. I'm a Paralegal, so researching is kind of my thing. ;) As you know, Dr. Oliver suggested the maintenance dose of Lysodren (no loading), with Melotonin and Lignans to me just today. For some reason I am just not feeling comfortable with that. Maybe it's just that Lysodren terrifies me - especially since Alivia's appetite fluctuates all the time.

Alivia's GP vet worked closely with OSU and me and truly helped to save her life when she had IMHA. My point is we developed a great relationship then and I know he cares about Ali. Anyway, he did his own research and talked to an IMS friend of his (not Ali's regular IMS). He told me he will support whatever decision I make and wanted what was best for Alivia and me, but that his recommendation was Trilostane. He feels it will be easier on her and have less adverse side effects. I trust his opinions because I know firsthand, if he doesn't know enough about something, he'll say so. I think I am talking myself into starting Alivia on Trilostane. :) I know I am leaning in that direction. If I go that route I will also continue the Melatonin and Lignans because there is no danger in continuing them and I don't think her GP vet has any problem with that.

I wish you and Zoe the best and I'm sure you'll do the right thing for her. Wish it just wasn't so darn hard to figure out what that is, though!

Keeping you in my thoughts,

Mary Beth and Alivia

[addy]

Hi Mary Beth,

If you have a vet you trust and have a good relationship I think following their advice is just fine.:)

I have reached the same conclusion. I need my IMS, I trust her, she is highly regarded in the community and I am going to do what she thinks is best for Zoe. If lowering her cortisol makes her colitis worse, I sure don't want to be stuck with vets like I have had in the past:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think you have made a good decision:D

Hugs,
Addy

[addy]

We have a pretty good amount of collective experience here and you have lots of friends who can guide you and your vet.

I know, thank you Glynda :). I just feel I need the IMS if her colitis gets worse once I lower her cortisol which could happen. I have had so many bad vets. I don't want to go back to that.

Her symptoms are getting stronger. She is constantly looking for food. I don't want to see new ones develop.

Thank you Glynda, I always want to hear your opinion and thoughts:)
Love you bunches.


Hugs,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Her symptoms are getting stronger. She is constantly looking for food. I don't want to see new ones develop.

Well, with a post stim of 40 ug/dl, I was wondering when Zoe was going to start acting like a real cushdog. :D:p:D

[addy]

I was wondering when Zoe was going to start acting like a real cushdog.


She always was a late bloomer:p She's just trying to make sure I go gray before my time. I told her to read the Cushing manuel but Zoe's refused!!!!!!;):rolleyes:

I plan to invest money the Kong company at the rate she's chewing them up:D:D:D

Almost Friday.

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Is it the Weekend!!!???? Conga Line.....

I really didn't get to make a choice between the 2 drugs. I also didn't have Zoe's other issues to contend with, but I never saw any side effects from the Lyso.

I know you will do what is right in your heart for Miss Zoe. You are the BEST after all!!!:p:D:)

I hope you have a great weekend and finally get to do some yard work--can be very relaxing, but then the next day those darn muscles hurt---WHY!!!!! hehe!!!:D

[addy]

Hey Marie,


I really didn't get to make a choice between the 2 drugs

I don't really have a choice either unless I want to try a fifth vet:eek:

Her IMS really wants to load her. She believes Zoe can handle it. I am worried after all this talk of following protocol, because of Zoe's issues, she is not going to follow protocol. So that is why I was trying to decide between maintenance dose no load, verses low dose load as options depending on what she comes up with.

Think positive thoughts right?

Did you see the Conga line I popsted on Susan's thread?

Love ya,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking in on how you and Zoe are doing. Will post on my thread what Dr. Allen said.
P.s. Note what said about the intermediate hormones.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Did you see the Conga line I popsted on Susan's thread?

Love ya,
Addy
Oooooh, ooooooh, ooooh......I haven't seen that line!!! I'll go check it out. I hope it's still there. I'm good at the Conga!!! :p:D;)
-susan

[addy]

Weird rust colored spots could be yeast. Snoop had it. Was feeding food that was sweet potato baised and too many other foods that converted to sugar (carrots as treats, ect). Put a dab of white or apple cyder vinegar on them daily and see if they drop off in a few days. If so you have a yeast problem.

Thank you Renee, I wondered about that. She's on a raw diet turkey and gets Embark about 3 tablespoons a day. I stopped her probiotic for 3 weeks to see if anything changed. I wanted to start a new one. I have a feeling the 3 weeks off the probiotic might be the cause.

I'll try the vinegar. Thanks for the tip. Its faily localized, hopefully we caught it in time.

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

Work Work Work is that all we get to do??? haha!!

Did you get to plant anything yet??? It was 85-90 here yesterday :eek: and it usually is in the 70's when we think it is hot. The zinnias are doing so well--there will be pictures when the blooms come--still a ways away.
Now what I want to know is who thought snails were a good thing--the ducks of course!!!:rolleyes:

I hope all is well with Miss Zoe and yourself. I do not have a problem with a forever dog/puppy like Koko--they keep you entertained--put that smile on your face when you think it won't be there...:):)

We went and looked at puppies on Saturday...it might be the one. We drove 2 hours to look--so cute. We got to meet a nine month old brother of the pups--he was such a happy go lucky guy--big smile on his face. The mom was really good with us and the puppies sure knew when mom came around--haha!!

Happy Tuesday!!!:D:D

[addy]

We went and looked at puppies on Saturday...it might be the one.

OMG:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D REALLY?????? I AM SOOOO EXCITED
TELL ME MORE

Plant flowers in Wisconsin? I wish. Today the high will be 38:eek::eek::eek: 15 degrees below normal. At this rate I might get to plant by the Fourth of July:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Miss Zoe is hanging on. Seeing more back leg trembling and her bad front paw too. But she was wrestling with Koko yesterday, go figure. One minute I think OMG and the next she is playing:rolleyes::rolleyes: I'm telling you she thinks if I think she is sick, I'll stay home with her.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Hi Boss, I'm taking the day off, Zoe is ill. "

"Zoe? Gee, Addy, I thought Zoe was the name of your dog, not one of your kids"

" Ummmm, welllll, we liked the name so much we used it twice":p:p


Work, work, toil and trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
You have a good sense of humor.:D
Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

I posted pictures.....:p

Hey I was thinking of taking Family Leave :) Somehow I do not think that one will go over either....!!!

I sure hope it starts to warm up for you. I will send some degrees your way that we do not need here just yet!!!

Oh darn, time to take off for a wonderful meeting with the group---I think my manager misses us since we all work from home offices---we have to get together to learn how to sell a product we all know how too...go figure.

Happy Day!!!

[addy]

Happy Day to you too Marie,

Have the happiest of days dear friend:D

Love,
Addy

[addy]

Colitis update for Zoe:

4/24 Started new probiotic with prebiotic encapsuled every other evening when she does not get metronidazole. Started seeing more frequent almost perfect to perfect stool.

4/29 started 1 teaspoon of Honest Kitchen Zeal-whitefish/sweet potato green beans, etc. Novel protein and carb one time a day replacing her raw food freeze dried snack. Continues really good stool.

Should I settle for this or push the envelope and try one teaspoon 2 times a day, replacing her other raw snack with the Zeal?

My original goal was to try to cut back on the raw food, replace the Embark with Zeal and feed more Zeal.:confused:

I am afraid to even hope. Am holding my breath.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do I push the envelope and try 1 teaspoon twice a day replacing her snacks?

Hugs,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
I don't get what the advantages are to twice a day vs. once and snacks or no snacks. Convenience?
Whatever the reason, you've been on your current "regime" for one week. I would think you could try whichever you think is best. If things turn less successful, you just go back to where you are now.
Or am I missing something............??
-Love,
susan

[addy]

Hi Susan,

i missed you:)

Zoe has a really touchy tummy. Usually the more I increase a new food the more of a problem it turns out to be. While she may tolerate 1 teaspoon, she may not tolerate 1 tablespoon. She may tolerate eating a tiny bit once a day but not twice a day. I have to go very slowly and I never know when I may tip the scales, so to speak. There was a time a few years ago I had to do 1 piece of kibble, 2 pieces of kibble, increasing kibble 1 piece a day for just 1meal.:rolleyes: It is hard to explain:confused:

Thus my dilemma. I want to first cut out the freeze dried Nature's Menu which she eats with her lignans mid morning and again around 8:00pm when she gets her metronidazole with food every other night.

So she east breakfast, get metronidazole with food, have to wait to give lignans so we get a mid morning snack at 11:00 and have lignans. Then we have supper with a probiotic on the nights she does not get metronidazole and then a snack with her metronidazole.

It has to do with her medications, the meals and snacks.

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Good Morning Addy,

I would say keep with what you are doing a little longer and then small amounts like you did with the kibble to see that the react might be. Like Susan said you can always go back to where it was good.

It is Friday- Yipee!!!!:D:D

Happy Weekend Ahead!!!! :) :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Okay-I get it now. :) Well-sounds like you know the drill. Make any changes minuscule and I'd give them at least 4 days before you tried anything more.
There's nothing "official" about that......other than Mother's instinct.:D
Love,
Susan

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just do what you are doing. Listen to your hunches and how Zoe is doing.
I have no problem with Apollo trying new things but his stomach does. Lately he seems just fine , even when the mail man gives him a treat he never had. Apollo still has quite an appetite.
Happy Mother's day to you and all you pet Moms.:D

Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

Good Morning Addy,

Happy Friday!!!!!

How are you and Miss Zoe? When do you have to make the decision to treat? I think my biggest concern would be the muscle wasting to catch it before Zoe gets there. It was that and the no energy I would have paid someone lots of $$$ to give back to Maddie. I think if I had known sooner she had CD maybe it wouldn't have gotten as bad and she would have gotten it back, but we will never know...

Is it warming up there?? I have soooo many questions this morning---because I do not want to work.

Have a wonderful weekend!!!

[addy]

Hi Marie,

Happy Friday too!!! TGIF!!!!!!:D:D:D

Zoe goes to the groomer Saturday and then I call for appointment next week with IMS. I kept thinking six months was June but it is July.:eek::eek:

We have a couple issues we need to check, some crusty spots on skin, the reddish brown pepper size spots so skin is worse, hair loss is worse. Her muscle wasting is definitely worse. Also, she sounds stuffed up to me (nasal) and some times her bark sounds weak.

But she sure is happy. Last night she was running around the house when I got home , throwing her Kong in the air, just has happy as could be, wanting to play. She was in a really good mood.:D

We are only up to 1 tablespoon Zeal for night time snack and 1 teaspoon Zeal morning snack. I will try to go to 1 tablespoon morning snack next week after she calms down from the groom visit.

I wonder if the new lignans are not working? We had to switch from the Vita Cost capsules to the Heartland powder and her estradiol is elevated. Or her cortisol went even higher?:confused:

A lot on my mind with her. I don't like this "nasal" thing and sometimes she acts like her throat is bothering her. Weird feeling I have. Her reverse sneezing is more frequent.

Well, enough of that!!!!!

Happy Puppy Weekend!!!!

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hey, I just noticed you got a promotion - Forum Host :D:D

I just talked to the breeder--the sire still hasn't made a decision, but he is pretty sure she will take the smaller of the two blue merle females which is okay with me the bigger the better. Although she will still be smaller than Maddie when full grown. No new pictures I keep asking and he should have by this weekend--I will keep my fingers crossed.:p

One good thing is he has no requirements of us as far as breeding or requires us to spay before we get papers--we get them the day we pick up. I am not sure breeding is us, but who knows it could be a good side job. ;) A lot more fun at the same time working. It might be hard to let puppies go because they are soooo cute....:)

Well, when you go to the IMS they can tell you more why Zoe sounds congested. I am so glad she is so happy and running around--a good thing!! :)

Have a wonderful weekend!!!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking in with you. We are both in the same place , difficult decisions.

We have a couple issues we need to check, some crusty spots on skin, the reddish brown pepper size spots so skin is worse, hair loss is worse. Her muscle wasting is definitely worse. Also, she sounds stuffed up to me (nasal) and some times her bark sounds weak.


Apollo also has the weird nasal nose. His breathing is labored when he tries to run a little bit. He tires very easily now. The muscle wasting has not improved. The therapy is helping a little. As far as the pepper size spots go. Is the skin black? Apollo has three areas of black skin and when I look at the patches with a magnifying glass, there are little black dots. I squeeze and little pus or hair comes out(hairs that can not get out).
I posted on my thread what the vet wants me to do now. I feel like you. I give Apollo one thing then something else effects his body then I am supposed to give him another thing to counteractive that. It just never ends.
Have a great Friday.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Sonja,

Apollo has that weird nasal thing too? Does he reverse sneeze? her skin is not black where the rusty stuff is. I thought her skin had gotten better so I waited to go to IMS. But the other night I found a new spot.:eek: The Zeal has definitely improved her poo and she has been perky. Yesterday it was warmer outside and the indoor heat did not run and she did not chew and drink as much water. Go figure.:confused::rolleyes:

I was just printing out all my emails from Dr. Oliver, Dr. Allen, Dr. Peterson to take with me to the IMS.

Hey Marie,

Which pup is it? I have to go back to look at the pictures.

Hey Susan,

If you check in here-love you and hope you are better

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hey Addy,

It is the one sticking out it's tongue...:p

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Skin spots, tired,etc..............sounds like Ehrlichiosis to me!! ;);) I'm anxious to hear what they have to say for you. I'm sorry you are having such a rough time...and Zoe.
How is she now that she has been groomed?
I'm thinking about you too.
Hugs and love,
Susan

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Apollo used to have the reverse sneezing, it may be allergies, with spring here. Also like Zoe, I found another black spot on Apollo. I will post on my thread what holistic vet said. I am to stop all supplements, vitamins for two weeks and start the Melatonin and HMR LIGNAN and continue the low dose Trilostane. He wonders if Apollo is being overloaded with all this stuff. Will post more on my thread later. Also is Zoe's cortisone in the normal range now? If it isn't maybe she could start on a low dosage of Trilostane?

Apollo has that weird nasal thing too? Does he reverse sneeze? her skin is not black where the rusty stuff is. I thought her skin had gotten better so I waited to go to IMS. But the other night I found a new spot. The Zeal has definitely improved her poo and she has been perky. Yesterday it was warmer outside and the indoor heat did not run and she did not chew and drink as much water.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi All,

I found an old prescription of mine for 10 mgs prednisone. IMS said she does not give it out. I have a stash now for Zoe if I need it. Just need to know how much to give her if needed. Does anyone know?

I called the other IMS in town I could possibly use. Smaller clinic, I am not as comfortable with it or his bio but the one and only IMS there has used Trilostane. His assistant did not clarify for how long or how much experience. Hubby and I will discuss setting up consultation with that IMS. Can't take off work this week or next week so would be right after Memorial Day, his schedule permitting.

I emailed Dr. Peterson to find out info about email/phone consultation. He is on lecture circuit and will be back next week. I need to verify cost. I think I already know what he is going to say, but hey, what the heck:rolleyes:

We will then go back to our IMS for Zoe's recheck and start treatment one way or another.

I hope to have all this resolved in June.

One last question: when I read you can go on and off Trilostane please explain how that relates to Lysodren. If I start Lysodren, I cannot stop it? I am confused. Could someone give me more details? If I load Zoe and she has side effects or I make her colitis worse, I cannot stop Lysodren?

Thanks for all your help,

Addy

[lulusmom]

The standard rescue dose of pred is 0.25mg/kg. To convert Zoe's weight from lbs to kg, divide lbs by 2.2. then you multiply that times .25. So if Zoe she weighs 20 lbs, the formula would be (20/2.2 = 9.09) * .25 = 2.27. That's a rather odd mg so you could round it to 3; however, even if you gave her 5mg, she wouldn't overdose.

The mechanisms of actions for Lysodren and Trilostane are extremely different. Lysodren selectively erodes (kills) the cells of the adrenal cortex and when the erosion is sufficient, cortisol is normalized. For a cushdog, normal would be a post stimulated result of 1 - 5 ug/dl. Lysodren's effect is cumulative and it continues to do its thing for up to 48 hours or longer. That means if you give a pill today, you probably won't see the peak cumulative effect of that dose for 48 hours. This is why during the loading phase, you must watch the dog like a hawk for signs of loading because once you give that pill, you can't take it back. This is also why the optimum timing of stim tests for dogs on lysodren is 48 hours after the last dose.

Trilostane (Vetoryl) is an enzyme blocker that, in the nutshell, blocks the synthesis of cortisol. It's peak effectiveness is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours after dosing and then it's effect starts to noticably wane any time after 8 or 9 hours. It is because of Trilsotane's short half life that most vets don't feel it necessary to prescribe prednisone as most dogs will bounce back rather quickly simply by withholding the Trilostane.

I hope this helps.

G.

[addy]

Thank you Glynda, it helps very much.:)


One last question: when I read you can go on and off Trilostane please explain how that relates to Lysodren. If I start Lysodren, I cannot stop it? I am confused. Could someone give me more details? If I load Zoe and she has side effects or I make her colitis worse, I cannot stop Lysodren?


She is outside trying to eat litlle balls of dirt, tree blossoms; she has NEVER done that. Her taste went more for bunny poop and crab apples :eek::eek::eek::rolleyes::rolleyes: That's my girl.

We should be good to go:):):)

Thanks again!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[lulusmom]

To answer your question, the adrenal cortex cells are tough little suckers and if you stop loading before you get cortisol levels down or if you achieve loading but don't maintain the erosion you achieved during thaat loading with an adequate maintenance dose of Lysodren, those cells will start to regenerate and then you will be back to square one and have to reload. As far as interrupting maintenance dosing, as long as you get the entire maintenance dose into the dog during the week, you should be okay. For instance, Jojo and Lulu both get 60mg of Mitotane (compounded lysodren) on Mon, Wed and Fridays. I've withheld one of those doses before because they seemed off on the day of dosing and I just gave that dose to them on a Saturday or Sunday....no harm, no foul. :D

In my opinion, with Zoe's cortisol being higher than most dogs we see here, I personally don't believe a maintenance dose of Lysodren is going to have any impact at all.

[marie adams]

Hi Addy,

I think with Lyso you would have to wait for a wash out period of at least a month to start Trilo. That is if that is what I remember everyone saying. Lyso just stays in the system or works longer than the Trilo does in a time period.

I hope the IMS can fit you in...

Happy end of Monday--only four more days to go for this week!!!:D

[addy]

I don't think that is what I mean. People make the statement they use Triolstane because "you can go on and off of it". What does that exactly mean?

If we go this route, I won't do maintenance dose of Lysodren with Zoe without some type of load. I don't think it will work either. I just wanted to clarify that any time during loading or after loading and she is on maintenance dose, I can stop the Lysodren if I need to make that decision and all that will happen is her adrenals will regenerate. It is not that I could never stop the drug.
If her colitis would get so bad (IMS said she could need to use prednisone,)I could stop the drug.

Confusing statements to me are " once you start Lysodren the dog needs it for life" and as I already mentioned the "on again off again: statements of Trilostane

Me

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

I'm not exactly sure what people mean by that either. It is my understanding that whether we use Lysodren or Trilostane, that our fur babies will be on it for the rest of their lives. There are sometimes remissions that occur in cushings, as was the case with Corky. Neither Lyso or Trilo are a cure for the disease. These meds help control the cortisol level and the clinical signs.

[labblab]

I just wanted to clarify that any time during loading or after loading and she is on maintenance dose, I can stop the Lysodren if I need to make that decision and all that will happen is her adrenals will regenerate. It is not that I could never stop the drug.
If her colitis would get so bad (IMS said she could need to use prednisone,)I could stop the drug.

Hi Addy,

Yes, you can stop giving Lysodren at any time if Zoe were to react negatively. It's just that if Zoe were to have a negative response to having her cortisol lowered, under typical circumstances it takes a longer time for her body to rebound after having been treated with Lysodren than with trilostane (days rather than hours). During the time period that you would be waiting for her adrenal glands to regenerate from the Lysodren, you would need to give her prednisone to compensate for the lowered cortisol.

Marianne

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I can only give you Apollo's experience with Trilostane. Apollo went on a very low dosage(10mg.). We tried to up a little(12.5mg) he throw up a little, I stopped it right away(Nov 2010. He had no side effects of any kind. I restarted again after March 2011. So I guess it is easier to stop and restart Trilostane. But if Zoe is on Lysodren and you need to stop there is a certain time period before you could switch over to TRilostane( think they call it a wash out period)
The most important factor is , if Zoe's cortisone is high than maybe the Trilostane will work with the lignan and what ever else you are using. But if Zoe's cortisone is normal than no, Trilostane would lower it more which is not good. Also Apollo's intermediate hormones are elevated. But they may have been right from the beginning(don't know if the Trilostane caused it).
I will continue the Trilostane and start the HMR lignan and Melatonin in hopes it lowers the intermediate hormones. Hope this help and does not confuse you more.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo



I don't think that is what I mean. People make the statement they use Triolstane because "you can go on and off of it". What does that exactly mean?

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

The goal of treatment is to maintain cortisol at a therapeutic level in order to maintain resolution symptoms so going off and on treatment, whether Lysodren or Trilostane, for any reason other than adverse reactions or a dog who is not feeling well on a particular day makes no sense. Do you remember where you read that information?

[addy]

Thank you all, I was ripping apart the house last night trying to find the copies of Zoe's ultra sound and the phone kept ringing and I could not think clearly. Dang, I need a vacation;) even a staycation:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The light bulb went on after I finally found the ultra sound copies and had quiet time to reread your posts. Glynda, I go it about not wanting to lose the load and Marianne I got it about taking longer to rebound and possible need for prednisone. That was exactly what I needed to know. That must be what they meant. So I feel much better that is all clarified for me. I feel like such a daaaaaa:o:o:o

THANK YOU!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

Love,
Addy

[labblab]

Yes, you can stop giving Lysodren at any time if Zoe were to react negatively. It's just that if Zoe were to have a negative response to having her cortisol lowered, under typical circumstances it takes a longer time for her body to rebound after having been treated with Lysodren than with trilostane (days rather than hours). During the time period that you would be waiting for her adrenal glands to regenerate from the Lysodren, you would need to give her prednisone to compensate for the lowered cortisol.

I'm sorry if I've continued to confuse the issue. By my earlier answer, I did not mean to imply that you would want to be starting and stopping Lysodren on an ongoing basis. I thought your concern related to whether or not you could stop Lysodren FOR GOOD in the event that Zoe was reacting negatively to the effects of the medication. And in that case, the answer is "yes" -- you do not have to keep giving Lysodren forever if you've established that it is not the medication that you are wishing to use to treat Zoe.

In relation to "starting and stopping trilostane," perhaps you're referring to the manufacturer's instructions as to how to handle dosing changes in the event that cortisol is being oversuppressed per ACTH testing? In that case, the recommendation is to stop the trilostane for a period of time, and then to start back again at a reduced dose. However, really, the same would also be true of Lysodren in the event that it is determined through ACTH monitoring that a change should be made to a dog's Lysodren maintenance dosing regimen.

Marianne

P.S. Addy, I see we were typing at the same time -- I'm glad that things are straightened out for you now!

[addy]

Hurrahh!!!!

I am to forward Zoe's test results to Dr. Peterson, we will have our consultation next week!!!!!!


His office was very reasurring!!!!!:)

YES!!!!!!!

Addy

[lulusmom]

Yippee!!!!!

[Squirt's Mom]

Way to go, Addy! :D I am getting excited about Zoe starting treatment and am so hoping she has no problems whatsoever with it!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[apollo6]

You are getting there. Ya!!!!:D
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

Yeah!!! Another thing to check off the list that never ends!!!:D:D

Next week cannot come fast enough for you and me!!! HeHe!!:)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Congrats on the consult! :D:cool: What exactly do you hope to get out of the consult? (Maybe I need to read back further.)
I don't think I realized how Zoe's condition has progressed. I am so sorry for your struggle.
With Peaches (Pome-poo) she lived to 17.25 yrs. She had no disease, thankfully. She had lost most of her sight and started having seizures. I looked at her one day and realized her tail, which usually curled up and around, was almost always down. She'd have about 10 minutes each morning and each evening when she was really enjoying life. At the other times I think she was content.
When the seizures started (we had a total of 3) it was too hard on her. That was when we realized we needed to take action.
I'm not at all suggesting you are there with Zoe. I am suggesting that I think you will know when it is the right time. You never feel like it at the time, but being such dog lovers as we are, I find you just know. We realized not to take action on Peaches, at that point, was a very selfish thing to do. She had had a great life, a very long life, a mostly healthy life. She adapted pretty well to the sight issue as it developed. But when the seizures started it was just very obvious that they were something no one should have to go through. It was not anything for which there was a medication that would help. And each morning I kind of quietly hoped she would not wake up. I didn't want to have to take that action. That was not to be.
Regarding the Trilostane, I know you've gotten great information, just as I did with Palmer. Palmer started out on 10 and got up to 30mgs. We never had a problem with the Trilostane. No side effects, no negative reactions. It was a tough decision, Trilo vs, Lyso, but I feel for us we made the right choice.
However further forward you travels take you and Zoe, you will have tons of support from people who have been there and walked that path.
Try to enjoy the moments you have when you can. Stay in the "now" if you can. :)
Take care, sweetheart.

Love,
Susan

[marie adams]

Is it Friday Yet?????

I cannot seem to get out the BLUES--maybe I need to go on medication:eek::eek: I have "Happy Camper" Pills, but they are just herbs and do not seem to put the happy or motivation back in the life.

I am really excited for you to finally see if treating the regular Cushings helps Miss Zoe. As much as I didn't want to have to use Lysodren it made Maddie's life much better. I think she didn't have to think about food all the time--it calmed her in that way. :o

Have a wonderful day!!! :)

[littleone1]

I'm so glad that you'll be able to start treating Zoe soon. I'm keeping everything crossed that everything goes well once you start the treatment.

[addy]

Thank you all for stopping by. I'm late in posting, trying to get Zoe's tests in order to send to Dr. Peterson, visits from the kids, etc been a busy week.;)

What to do I hope to glean from Dr. Peterson?

I hope to draw on his vast knowledge and experience:
Review Zoe's blood work and get reassured it is not unusual for a dog with such high cortisol to have normal blood work and to see if he sees a path to Cushing in it.

Reassure me that although I now know her tests were not done in an optimal way, I do not need any more tests prior to starting treatment.

His opinion on the best way to go about treating her with the colitis

His opinion and experience with dogs with her high cortisol, would a low dose of Trilostane even do anything?

Would a low dose load of lysodren be worthless with her high cortisol?

How do we address her reaction to past drugs? Am I putting to much emphasis on what happened with the heartworm medicine, rimadyl, panacur and high doses of flagyl? Maybe her reactions are common place.

Have him help put the pieces to the puzzle together.

Hope I am not expecting too much.:eek::rolleyes:

Have a wonderful Thursday and thank you all for checking on us.

Love you all,
Addy, Zoe and little Koko too!!

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Do you know you just made yourself a nice little list you can take with you so you remember each item?:D
When is the appt? Do you hope to come away with most of your questions answered? Does Zoe not have a Cushings' diagnosis?...that can't be....look at the thread title.:confused:
How did you come upon Dr. Peterson?

How many kids? What "kind?" Grandkids?? :confused::confused:

Have a wonderful weekend.....if we don't hear back from you.

Love,
Susan

[addy]

Hi Susan,

It is a telephone consultation with Dr. Peterson to go over things that are bothering me before I go back to Zoe's IMS to start treatment. He is in New York. I just got done sending all her Cushing tests to them. Zoe does have a Cushings diagnosis, it is just she has not been a clear cut case. She never read the manual:p:p

Hey, Carrol was on K9 Diabetes April 22nd. I just checked. I am worried about her too.:(

Kids include daughter and her two daughters. Koko and Hubby are out numbered:D:D:D:D:D

The "second one" has put up with me for 21 years. I don't know how:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: And believe it or not our anniversary is the same day as Marie's:cool::cool::cool:

OMG THE SUN IS OUT. AT LEAST I THINK IT IS THE SUN. I THINK I REMEMBER HOW IT LOOKS!!!!!!!!!!! HURRAH THE SUN!!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hey There,

Wow--who would have thought Sept. 21st would be so popular--and we even got married on a Sunday.

Daughters are sooo much fun and granddaughters--ooooh I wish I had some. My daughter said no kids, but then she is only 26 so I might have a chance once she finds Mr Right and he wants them.:D:D

I am glad you have spoken to Mother Nature and have come up with a plan to get those seeds planted. Yeah!!! For the SUN!!! I just took some of the seedlings and move them around--thinned out. I hope they make it!!! :p

I am going to call the breeder in a bit so will let you know what's up.:)

[MBK]

Hi, Addy!

Glad you will have the consultation with Dr. Peterson. It should be helpful to have someone review everything with a fresh eye. Is he also going to write a report for you? I was supposed to do a consultation with him last week, but the pancreatitis episode put it on hold. Now, I will be anxious to hear how yours goes. It sounds like your Zoe is a lot like Alivia! Ali did not read the manual, either! ;) She has never reacted typically to things. Her regular vet even mentioned that again last week. She's also had reactions to some medications. I think that combination makes treatment more difficult and also a lot scarier.

I hope the consultation helps you to figure out the best way to proceed! GOOD LUCK!!!!

[addy]

Hi Mary Beth,

I am so happy Alivia is improving every day. I can't begin to tell you how great it is to hear.

Thanks for stopping by. I am excited about the consultation. I just hope my expectations are not too high. Yes, Carol , I believe, said he would write a report to me or Zoe's vet. I said I wanted everything to go through me. He is still in Spain lecturing but will be back next week.

I sent her the test results and recheck notes from the last year with the IMS. There had been 4 appointments, two included lots of tests. I had everything organized, including a sheet with current meds, symptoms, known drug side effects. She thanked me for "being so thorough" and I thought "OH NO" I hear that all the time from vets and have a complex about it now. They worry sometimes about talking to me because I am thorough and detailed.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hubby thinks I take it a bit too far. I really tried to cut back this time and did not include a lot of info:D:D:D:D

Yikes!!!!!! I'm getting paranoid!!!:eek::eek::rolleyes: I can't help it. I have questions!!!!!;););)

I'll let you know how it goes so you will be prepared when it is your turn!!!!

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy-
Isn't New York a fur piece from Milwaukee? No satisfactory resources in Milwaukee?
As you can tell, me no sleeping. Exhausted but no sleeping.
Puppy school went great! I'll fill you in more tomorrow. The have a site, in case you're interested. www.k10training.com (http://www.k10training.com) . Trainer's name is Nancy. Seems to be very nice and seems to get results.
On the way there, Bailey threw up all over me. I'm beginning to get used to this now.
Nappy time. What kind of furniture did you say? I couldn't hear you!!;);)
Fess up once you get the news!!
Love,
Susan:)

[addy]

Well, Susan thank goodness Bob didn't throw up all over you, that it was Bailey, 'cause it would have been a bigger mess:p:p:p


Yes, NY is far from WI but long distance romances some times work so long distance vet consults COULD;);););)

Hey Marie, pictures of Ella this weekend!!!!!! WE HOPE:D


Hope all of you have a great weekend!!!!!!! Love you all!!!!!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[marie adams]

Hey Addy,

There are somethings that I have to be very thorough with. I have learned from all this stuff you have to be with vets now or they will walk all over you. Being informed is a good thing!!!:D

You are so right that it wasn't Bob throwing up on Susan. Even though any throw up is yukey. So glad training went well.

If I had pictures they would be up, I cannot even get the breeder to call me back so I know if we are taking days off work to go get her next week--I am going nutso--impatient:eek::eek: This is where I need the drugs to settle down---haha!! I will try again today block my number and hope for the best. :o

Have a wonderful sunny weekend!!!!

[marie adams]

It is Official The Cute Little One is coming home to stay next Wednesday!!!!:):):)

No new pictures, but she is the one with her tongue sticking out--will have pictures when she comes home. :p

YEAH!!!

[addy]

Ella is coming home

D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


ELLA IS COMING HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


love,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Congratulations, Marie!

[marie adams]

Addy,

Carrol's back -- check out Bailey's thread.....:D:D

Thanks Glynda!!!:)

[Bichonluver3]

OMG, ELLA'S COMING HOME, ELLA's COMING HOME, ELLA'S COMING HOME!!! Who's ELLA? The baby? What baby? Oh, THAT baby? Oh, THE baby? YAAAYYY!!!!

[MBK]

Hi, Addy!

What time is your telephone consultation tomorrow? I am anxious to hear your results and to see if you feel it is beneficial. If so, i may be rounding all of Alivia's records up soon!

Ali is still doing well. She has a follow up IMS visit tomorrow evening, so hopefully it will only be good news!

[addy]

I've missed you Carrol and I hope you feel better real soon.

I must be having sympathy pains because I have been so tired this week and so very brain dead!!!:o

I have the telephone consult tomorrow and I literally cannot think.

I keep reviewing the questions I have and my brain is just NUMB:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

hugs,
Addy

[addy]

2 hours and 30 minutes until Dr. Peterson consultation. I have all my questions, all of Zoe's test copies,here in my office. I am so prepared.:cool: (Probably over prepared:rolleyes:)


Too bad I probably won't be able to talk:eek::eek::eek::rolleyes:

I feel nervous and I do not understand why.

Okay, need to de stress.

Wish me luck,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

BREATH

BREATH

BREATH

Shake your hands all around....roll your head around on your shoulders.....stretch your arms out......wiggle your fingers.......

Now, SIC 'EM! :p

[Harley PoMMom]

Wishing you the best of luck and looking forward to your next post! ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[apollo6]

dear Addy
Just say a little prayer. Give the vet your notes if you are scared. Write down what is said and ask any question you have no matter what it is. We are here for you.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

The long and short of it: His opinion: Start on 15 mgs Trilostane. Do full chemistry panel in 2 weeks and a baseline ACTH not a stim to make sure she does not drop too low.

After that, in another two weeks redo chemistry panel and do ACTH stim.

She should be treated now, don’t wait to try and further correct colitis. Do not consider blood work. Treat her now.

I have appointment 6/1 with current IMS. He told me to tell her to call him if she has questions and to read his chapter in the Ettinger Vet book. If she refuses, I will have to go elsewhere. I have another IMS I could turn to. I guess I will go there rather than go back to her holistic vet that scared me half to death.

I am relieved and scared at the same time. He said her cortisol is really high. He does not see many dogs with that high of cortisol any more. Trying not to cry. My poor Zoe.

Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Addy,

Don't cry, honey. :( It sounds like you had a productive chat and now have a plan to act on that you are comfortable with. You have worked tirelessly to reach this point, all for Zoe - and you will continue to do the same thing now that you are ready to start treatment. I have no doubt of that at all. Our sweet Zoe could not be in better hands than yours. The Trilo will lower her cortisol and you know best how to deal with her colitis should it flare up. We are all here for you every step of the way, but I have a feeling you and Zoe are gonna sail through this just fine! ;)

Now you need a hot bubble bath, a glass of cold wine and a good book so you can take your mind off of this for a bit and relax. Or maybe Sonja can whip you up one of her delicious sounding concoctions and send it on over! :p A massive chocolate concoction! :D

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[marie adams]

Oh Addy,

You wanted some answers and now you have them. :) Start the treatment and you will see how it goes--what else can you do. You have been prepared for this even if it didn't seem like it. The great thing with Trilo is it is easily controlled faster than Lyso so that is a good thing. You might be surprised that the Trilo might help with the colitis. I think I read somewhere on someone's thread that it helped with it. :o

Please take time to relax and think thru everything, but you have done right by Zoe so far and I know in my heart you will not fail her now. :)

Go look at my new pictures.....:)

[Cindy Thoman]

Addy, sorry you are not having a great day. At least now you have some answers and a plan. With this forum you have a wonderful team to help you down this new path. You always give everyone else such good advice, time to focus on the positive and take the great advice you always give to others. Positive thoughts and prayers coming your way!

xoxo,
Cindy, Alex and Bear

[littleone1]

Addy, my dear friend,

I'm glad that you finally got some answers and can start treating Zoe. We're all here for you and Zoe. You are such a very loving, caring mom, and you've always wanted to do what's best for Zoe. Things will work out, and you and Zoe will do well. Anytime you feel the need to talk, I'm here.

(((HUGS))) for you and lots of belly rubs for Zoe.

[addy]

Thank you all so very much. I am composed now. I think it was just when I hung up the phone I had this sense that I had let my Zoe down instead of treating in January when we redid the UTK panel. He did not say that or allude to it it was just me feeling that way. But I believe with all my heart she was not strong enough then.

Help me think this through: if high cortisol is helping her colitis would high cortisol be able to help it so much that her Texas A&M panel was normal and blood work was normal? Can it do that? I did not think to ask him that new question.His thinking is that the colitis is going to get worse when we lower her cortisol. My IMS says it could go either way. He did say he has seen dogs having loose stools improve with treatment.

So the plan is to use Trilostane and lower her cortisol so we can then assess the impact the lower cortisol has on her colitis and possible allergies. Because I can stop giving the drug any day and restart it I now have more options. If at some point the Trilostane is a problem we can always do wash out and turn to lysodren but he really did not feel that was the drug for her even with the elevated intermediates and estradiol because of her colitis and drug side effect issues.

Meanwhile Miss Zoe is happily chewing on her Kong and totally oblivious to anything but sheer joy in chewing.:D:D:D

Sorry I fell apart. I am fine now. I know I have done the right thing for my dog so far. I know I have.

AND HE WAS SO PATIENT AND SO NICE :D:D:D:):):)

I am so glad I did this. Thank you Mary Beth for calling his office in the first place and spuring me on.

Love,
Addy

[marie adams]

Dear Addy,

Don't we always think we let them down...but you didn't. You know what is best for Miss Zoe. Is she still a happy camper--YES!!! So now you have the path to follow and like you said you can change the path at any time--so there!!!:)

Think Happy Thoughts!!!

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I am not worried at all for Zoe but I'm worried about whether you are going to worry yourself sick about this. I know from experience that we cushparents are our own worst enemy sometimes and I think I know what you are doing right now. You are sitting there with all these ghastly images in your head of all the horrible things that are going to happen to Zoe. The key words are "in your head". :D:p:D I believe a much more likely scenario is that you will probably be very surprised by how well Zoe handles a low dose of Trilostane. It is a low dose, half of what my 4.5 lb Lulu was taking so hopefully that should make you feel a little more comfortable. If that doesn't help, how about 6.5 lb Jojo starting treatment on 15mg twice a day.

Madison's mom, Sharon, told me that Dr. Peterson is having her take Madison in two weeks post Trilostane treatment for blood chemistry and baseline cortisol too. I believe she said Madison will have an acth stimulation test done 30 days post treatment. Doing the baseline cortisol instead of a stim sure saves a lot of money so that's great. This is something I had not heard of until Sharon related it to me so with you being given the same directives, I assume that this must be Dr. P's protocol for monitoring his new patient's treatment (with Trilstane). Very interesting.

[addy]

I'm really not doing that Glynda, I am surprised I am not. :confused::confused: I don't think it is going to happen. I put on my thinking hat like YOU taught me ;) and I am thinking, if cortisol was masking her colitis disease, how could it mask her blood work? It could mask symptoms but not blood work, could it? How could it? I think she will be fine.

If I am honest, I do have a little voice in the back of my head "twitching about her other hormones but that was why I asked Dr. Oliver to begin with, if I had to choose -----.


I was surprised too about the baseline acth test. He said because it takes about a month to bring the cortisol down to normal I only want to check after two weeks if she has gone too low. Then wait another two weeks (which would then be about a month) and do stim.

I really liked him he was so just a regular guy and easy to speak to. AND reassuring. And what he said about the UTK panel, etc made sense because I had thought the very same thing!!!!!:D:D He has had so many dogs presenting symptoms and blood work like Zoe and never ran a UTK panel on them;, put them on Triolstane and they did just fine. When I asked but would a low dose even work for her high cortisol he said, if it doesn't we'll raise it (like it was no big deal.;)

Love,
Addy

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

Corky's cortisol level wasn't as high as Zoe's. It was 24, but after being on Trilo for 10 days, it dropped to 2.1. It did increase after that, but as his dosage has been increased, it keeps getting back in the normal reference range.

Hang in there my friend. Things do work out.

[lulusmom]

For what it's worth, Addy, I'm really proud of you.

[Harley PoMMom]

Great job, Addy! You are such a wonderful and loving mom to Zoe. And an excellent advocate for her too. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
I am proud of you. You are doing what you feel is best for Zoe.
Like everyone said, you can go off the Trilostane right away if you see any change in Zoe. Remember I had Apollo on Trilostane through Nov 2010, then took him off and restarted again in March 2011. And I think Glynda said there are some on our site who are taking Trilostane with melatonin and lignans to control the hormones.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo
do like I did when you do start, post each day for our support and encouragement.

[MBK]

Dear, dear Addy-

Sounds like you had a roller coaster of a day! I am glad that you had an EXPERT look at all of Zoe's records and tests with a fresh eye. I am sure a big part of you wished Dr. Peterson would have said Zoe's Cushing's wasn't that bad and you could delay treatment. But, it sounds like you are now at the point where treatment needs to start. I don't think you would have or should have gotten to this point without all the steps you have taken for Zoe prior to this. You have taken the best care possible of her and she is very lucky to have you! I hope the consultation has put your mind at ease by letting you know what the next step needs to be and giving you a plan of action. I know the treatment is scary but at least for now you can forget about the Trilostane/Lysodren debate and move forward, with the confidence of knowing you are doing the best thing for Zoe right now. Like Dr. Peterson said the dosage could change or there could could be other changes along the way, nothing is set in stone. You are on the right path, though! I have a really good feeling about Zoe's treatment!

Wouldn't it be nice to be more like our dogs and just relax and get pure joy from something as simple as chewing on a Kong? Zoe can do that because you take such good care of her!

Now for you to find a vet that is not so egotistical that he/she will not mind accepting some advice from someone as qualified in this area as Dr. Peterson is! I am fortunate that Ali has a really good regular vet. I was told by the ultrasound vet that Ali's vet attends ALL of the conferences for internists, which he said was not the case for many of the local vets - even the internists! Her vet does not have a problem with continued learning and appreciates the advice from specialists. When we get to where you are, he will most likely be the one to manage Alivia's care. My point is, maybe you should not limit yourself to ONLY an internist. If you have (or can find) a good regular vet that is willing to work with Dr. Peterson's guidelines, maybe that's a better option.

I am glad I was helpful in your decision to have the consultaion with Dr. Peterson, but you would have gotten there on your own - it was just the right time! :) Now I need to get it together (and, by "it" I mean all of Ali's records and tests!) and follow through with my previously planned consultation, too!

Got to get ready for work! I'll post and Ali update on my string later today! Sending you and Zoe tons of positive thoughts!!! Relax. Breathe. You made progress. This is all good. :D

[addy]

Thank you all for your support. I feel a great burden lifted from my shoulders this morning. I needed to hear from an expert what I have felt all along in my heart. She can't handle the load.

I am positive and happy and not stressed. I have a few more bridges to cross but no big deal. If IMS is beyond her comfort level off we go to Port Washington!!!!:D:D:D

I FEEL GREAT AND SOON MISS ZOE WILL TOO AND SHE HAS PERFECT POOPS FOR A MONTH- I WANT TO SHOUT IT TO THE WORLD:D:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p:):):):)

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

A MONTH of perfect poos!!!!!! :D:D:D:D Now if that's not a good sign, I don't know what is! :D:D

I want to second Glynda - I am so very proud of you! And I know Zoe is proud of her mom, too. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[MBK]

No matter how many experts you see, consult with or read articles from, when it comes right down to it, people like all of us here who share very special bonds with our dogs and consider them family members, usually seem to instinctively know what is best for our babies. This illness can be so confusing and there is so much conflicting information out there that it is very easy to lose track of that and to doubt your instincts. No one knows our dogs better or loves them more than we do. I am so happy that yesterday you got the reassurance of that you needed, Addy. Now you have a direction to move forward with and, hopefully, it will be a little less scary now. (Will someone please remind me of all this the next time I am in a complete panic, which I am positive will happen again?)

A month a perfect poops sounds like a good reason to celebrate to me!!! I bet Zoe would most definitely agree!!! :D I will toast to Zoe this evening with a glass of Chocovine (my newly discovered, sinfully delicious, favorite!). ;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Chocovine

Could that be a chocolate wine?!?!? :D

[MBK]

Yes, Leslie. That is exactly what Chocovine is! Dutch chocolate with red wine from Holland. It is surprisingly inexpensive and much more delicious than it sounds! Like drinking dessert! :cool:

[Squirt's Mom]

ooooooo....sounds like I have a new bubble bath libation to check out! ;):D

[marie adams]

I may have to try out this new libation myself. I will look for it and have a taste.

Addy of course I am so very proud of you and how you have gather so much info and talked to the expects. You still know what is best for Zoe, but you also have the info to stand behind it.:)

Hats off to you!!!! With a shot of Chocovine....:p

[MBK]

Leslie - It is a perfect bubble bath libation! :p

Marie - A shot may not be enough! ;)

Addy - You probably could use some right now, after the anxiety of the past few days! :eek:

All - You will have to try it and let me know how you like it. All this talk about Chocovine...think I'll have a bit myself right now! YUM! :cool:

[addy]

Chocolate? Did someone say chocolate? Chocolate WINE?


Yummmmmmmyyyyyyy:p:p:p:

Do you think I could stash a bottle in my desk? For when I need a chocolate fix? Or that would probably constitute alcohol, not a chocolate fix. They would think I have a drinking problem, not a chocolate problem:p:p:p

Maybe a drinking problem would not be bad right now:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Brain nummies, I could handle that.;);););)

Happy Almost Memorial Day:D:D:D

Hugs,
Addy

[MBK]

Addy -

I just poured myself a glass of ChocoVine and, as promised, toasted to Zoe and her month of perfect poops. Then it occurred to me that chocolate brown liquid may not have been the best choice for THAT particular toast! :p But, it is delicious anyway and unbelievable chocolatey. It would definitely satisfy a craving for chocolate, but the 14% alcohol content might get you in trouble at work....although there are times that I think it could be quite helpful!! :rolleyes: I actually just stumbled on this in the store last Saturday and bought it out of curiosity - never expecting it to be so delicious!

[addy]

CHEERS MARY BETH AND ALIVIA


Here's to a month of PERFECT POOPS

CLINK!! CLINK!!!

I dont have Chocovino but I have milk and a chocolate cookie!!!!

Close enough:p:p:p:p:p
love,

Addy, zoe and koko too

[Bailey's Mom]

dear Addy
Just say a little prayer. Give the vet your notes if you are scared. Write down what is said and ask any question you have no matter what it is. We are here for you.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

I have used a pocket recorder with great success. I have found that often I get what was said in the office,scrambled once I leave. I took my mini recorder, placed it on her desk an asked if she would mind if I used it. She wanted to know why I wanted to use it. Once she understood "why" , she nervously relented. As the consultation went on she totally forgot it was there. Or you can just set it to noise activate and slip it in a pocket.

You get the jist.....I'm falling asleep here.
Back tomorrow.

s

[Bailey's Mom]

The long and short of it: His opinion: Start on 15 mgs Trilostane. Do full chemistry panel in 2 weeks and a baseline ACTH not a stim to make sure she does not drop too low.

After that, in another two weeks redo chemistry panel and do ACTH stim.

She should be treated now, don’t wait to try and further correct colitis. Do not consider blood work. Treat her now.

I have appointment 6/1 with current IMS. He told me to tell her to call him if she has questions and to read his chapter in the Ettinger Vet book. If she refuses, I will have to go elsewhere. I have another IMS I could turn to. I guess I will go there rather than go back to her holistic vet that scared me half to death.

I am relieved and scared at the same time. He said her cortisol is really high. He does not see many dogs with that high of cortisol any more. Trying not to cry. My poor Zoe.

Addy
Oh Addy-I am so very sorry for your being upset. We all have been there......or will be there before all is said and done.
Palmer started off just that way except his beginning dosage was 10.
I also apologize at being so tardy here. I know you understand with what I've been going through. I just haven't been able to keep up with everything as I usually do.
I am sending to you one (((Humongous Hug)))(hold, one, two three, four, and five)I HATE those superficial hugs....ones with air kisses or the double pat on the back. I like the feeling of connection
What is her cortisol number?
I'm here with ya, kid.

Love,
Susan

[addy]

How come on the Dechra website there are questions and answers by Dr. Mark Peterson?


Is he affiliated with Dechra in any way?

Need to know before I see my IMS.

Thanks,
Addy

[lulusmom]

Dechra has a continuing education page on their site and Dr. Peterson, Dr. Bruyette and I believe Dr. Cook all contribute. I believe they may do lectures as well. I have no idea if they get paid or not.

http://www.dechrace.com/faq.html

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
can you post Zoe's cortisol reading.
You need some Zen from all of us.
I don't know who Dr. Peterson is so no input there. I have attached his site, if this is him
http://www.drmarkepeterson.com/contact/.
this is what he says about Atypical cushing
10. Atypical Cushing’s (adrenal sex steroid excess)
[ - Collapse ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atypical Cushing’s syndrome is a disorder of dogs that remains incompletely understood. These dogs show many of the classic features of typical Cushing’s syndrome. However, dogs with atypical Cushing’s syndrome show normal or borderline cortisol levels on standard endocrine testing. To make understanding this confusing disorder even more complex, atypical Cushing’s syndrome may also be referred to by other names, including the adrenal hyperplasia-like syndrome, pseudo-Cushing’s, or Alopecia X.



A theory has arisen that the clinical signs of atypical hyperadrenocorticism result from excess adrenal secretion of sex hormones rather than cortisol. These adrenal sex steroids include both androgens (i.e., hydroxyprogesterone, androstenedione) and estrogens (i.e., estradiaol). In many of these dogs, blood levels of one or more of the ”adrenal sex steroids” are high. Most veterinarians consider high adrenal sex steroid levels diagnostic for atypical Cushing’s syndrome.



Dogs with this atypical disorder generally respond to drugs like mitotane or trilostane, similar to dogs with typical or classical Cushing's disease. Some reports suggest that melatonin and flax seed oil may also be effective in some dogs with this disorder.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If this is his site, he sounds very knowledgeable, and doesn't work for Dechra.
I hope this easies your mind.


All I can say is if Zoe cortisol is high and symptoms there she needs to be on either Trilostane or Lysodren. We know her hormones are high so is she still on Melatonin and Lignans to lower them.
Apollo does have the high hormones so for the next month or so with the Trilostane I am also going to give him the Melatonin and Lignans and see if that lowers his hormones. I think Glynda said a few people have their dogs on Trilostane with the Melatonin and Lignans.
We are here for you.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo and I blow you a kiss also.

[marie adams]

Oh how I wish I had that Chocovino to get through the wild puppy crazies.

Mary Beth - that was hilarious about the toast to the perfect month of poops for Zoe.

Miss Addy - (((((BIG HUGS)))))

Have a wonderful Memorial Day!!!

[addy]

Thank you Glynda, Sonja and new mom Marie:)

I needed to know so I don't look misinformed when I speak to the IMS. I never checked that trail because it never occurred to me to. My whole discussion with him, as stated to him directly, was about getting unbiased information. I think I see now the likelihood of that occuring for me is slim. The trail led to seeing Dechra sponsoring most of the Veterinary Conferences, including those where Dr. Peterson was a featured speaker. I just wished I had known prior to the consult. I would have asked different questions.

How much weight I allow that to have on our consultation and his recommendations has been a four hour discussion with hubby.

I know this may seem insignifcant to some but I have been misdiagnosed, overdosed and been given drugs with black box warnings. I am skittish and very wary of the medical community. I need to make my own decisions knowing that drug companies influence doctors.

We will proceed as planned but I may cancel IMS appointment and go directly to the new IMS. I will decide today with hubby.

Hugs,
Addy

[littleone1]

Addy, my friend, I hope you are able to make a decision soon that you are comfortable with. With Zoe's cortisol level being so high, it would really help her if you could treat her.

Hang in there. I know we second guess ourselves as to what is the right thing to do. Sometimes the more information we get, the worse things seem to be.

(((HUGS)))

[MBK]

Addy -

So sorry to hear you are now second guessing the advice given by Dr. Peterson due to his connection with Dechra. I completely understand your worries about this. I looked at some of Dr. Peterson's articles and they don't seem to always favor Trilostane. http://animalhospitalofmtpocono.com/NEPVMA/docs/1.Cushings.%20Diagnosis%20and%20Rx.pdf The manufactrurer of Lysodren is Bristol Myers, so they are not exclusively a veterinary company. Perhaps that is why there is no obvious connection with Dr. Peterson. It makes perfect sense to me for a Veterinary drug company to sponsor a veterinary conference, and also for one to ask a veterinary endocrinologist to speak about their product.

Is it possible you are overthinking this (something I do often!)? You seemed pretty confident in your decision a few days ago because the Trilostane would potentially be easier on Zoe's colitis. If it is only the connection with Dechra, for what it's worth, I don't think that is a big issue. I think it is natural for one of the top canine endocrinologists in the country to be quoted by Dechra.

Hope you were able to relax a bit this weekend!

[addy]

I am not rethinking our decision. Hubby and I have alreay waded through those waters last night. We are going forward to treat her, we really can't wait any longer.

The only thing we are rethinking is to go our current IMS and tell her of our consultation with Dr. Peterson or cancel that appointment and schedule with the new IMS who uses the drug which we may have to do anyway because she may say she will not treat Zoe with Trilostane. I may be pushing her outside of her comfort level.

But what I did not want was to go to her and tell her of the consultation and me not know all the facts and have her enlighten me to them. Meaning, I did not want her rebuttal to be the connection with Dechra. I did not want to hear that from her, which is why I needed to know prior.

It is hard to explain. My husband's family are all doctors. It is hard for me to explain here.

Love,
Addy

[MBK]

I think I understand...I've heard that dismissive tone before from a vet/dr. when you bring up something that is not necessarily what they have suggested. Tough decision...stick to someone you know who doesn't seem to be comfortable with Trilostane or start over with someone new. There are so many things to consider it makes your head spin, doesn't it?

I know you'll make the right decision for Zoe...seems like you always do!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
My heart goes out to you. Listen to what your instincts tell you. I agree about the medical community, often times it is black and white, they forget about the grey area. If I had listened to doctors , I would be on 4 medications. That was 15 years ago and I am not on any and I am still here.
No matter who you choose for Zoe , they should be aware of all the options available and be willing to work with you on what you decide.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Thank you Mary Beth and Sonja,

I am just tired and my mind is racing so it is sometimes hard for me to explain my thoughts. Her groomer is bothering me about her rabies waiver, it is expired, not sure if IMS will take care of that, her holistic vet did last year. I have not seen her for a year.:o

She needs her flagyl script refilled and am trying to take care of that today with IMS in case I have to cut her lose tomorrow:rolleyes:
Have not heard back yet.:rolleyes:

I have to straighten out the treatment issues with IMS tomorrow or call immediately to new IMS for appointment this week.

She had been walking like a drunken sailor again last week so have had to cut back a bit on the flagyl to see if it helps. It did last Christmas but i am taking a chance with treatment starting.

In the mean time I am beginning to think Koko may have a UTI and his gums have been a bit sticky off and on. I have been making his Embark soupier but I still see the sticky gums sometimes.

It all makes my mind go really fast sometimes and I can't write it all down in a cohesive way.:o I get impatient with myself.;):o

All this strategy planning wears a person out:rolleyes:;):p

Hugs,
Addy

[littleone1]

Slow down Addy and take a deep breath. Step away from everything for a short time. You're burning yourself out. I know you're doing everything you can possibly do, and you will do what's best for Zoe and KoKo.

There always seems do be something new that pops up. You'll get through this.

(((HUGS)))

[Squirt's Mom]

I second Terri! :D

[MBK]

What THEY said!

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Try to take care of yourself while all this is going on, even if it is for a few minutes just to breath.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Came back from IMS. She wanted to start Zoe on lower dose than 15mgs because she is highly sensitive to drugs and her intestinal tract may get upset. We likely need a higher dose to control her Cushings but wants to give her body chance to adjust.

Dechra (per Dr. Allen) and UC Davis protocol would be 10mgs for Zoe so I agreed to her starting dose of 10mgs SID. First pill is Saturday. She wants to do stim June 13th. Told her Dr. Peterson's instructions. She said she would call him if I wanted but she did not want to wait 2 weeks to check Zoe. Wants to check in 7-10 days and wants to do stim. I said I have no problem for her to do it her way. She is the one who is here with Zoe and has been treating her. Zoe's weight at vet was 18 pounds.

I have to stop the melatonin and lignans for now as we introduce Vetoryl. I forgot to ask Dr. Peterson that. She does not want her on them to start treatment.

I am very concerned stopping the melatonin will give me bad poops.

I was not expecting that. :eek::eek: Now I am stopping something and starting something new and I won't know cause and affect. It took me over 6 weeks to wean her of Shen Calmer. The melatonin originally gave her firm stool.:confused::confused::(:(

Not sure what to do about the melatonin and lignans but she insisted they be stopped for now. INSERT HUGH SIGH ICON HERE.

Splitting headache Addy

[littleone1]

Hi Addy,

When Corky started taking Trilo, his IMS had me give him 5mg of Pepcid AC once a day so his stomach wouldn't get upset. He had his first stim done on the 10th day.

I'm keeping everything crossed and am sending positive thoughts that Zoe does well with the treatment.

Hang in there my friend.

[addy]

Thank you Terri,

Hubby just made me promise to stop about the melatonin. He agrees with IMS to stop for now so she can see how new drug affects Zoe.

I'm having a hard time keeping my mouth shut but a promise is a promise. I will try it their way for a start;);)

I am crossing my fingers too because of that subject I am not allowed to talk about:mad::mad::D:p:p:rolleyes::(:eek::eek:

At least I did not have to deal with the compounding decision;)

Also I don't have a signed rabies waiver:mad::mad:

Ah well, Saturday is right around the corner.

Thanks for wishing us luck dear friend and I hope my nephew's UTI is better.

Love,
Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

WOW!!! I need to catch MY breath! :eek:
Addy, Addy-you are okay. :) Zoe is well cared for. :) You are doing everything you can. That's all any of us can do.
I remember my mind feeling like it was swimming when I first joined this forum. I just kept asking questions and going back to the doc with any suggestions that seemed to make sense.
This, unfortunately, is such a gray area. It's not like taking a blood test, identifying the issue and being able to take antibiotics to knock it out. :(
If I had to go down this path again with another dog, I am sure I would feel exactly as you are feeling. My experience with Palmer would give me a little more confidence.....but I think it would be an entire relearning process. :(:(
If you get yourself all wound up, Zoe will sense it. It's amazing how they know. You want to take what steps you can, keep as informed as you can and then "let go." It will work out as it is supposed to. That may sound hollow, but I really believe that. We make the best decisions we can with the information we have at the time. That's all we can do....plus kiss, love, hug our little ones.
(((((((HHHUUGG)))))))
Susan

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
The fact you are starting so low is good. Once you know Zoe can tolerate you can restart the melatonin with the vet's permission.
Apollo is now on 10mg. Trilostane and has been on 10mg. of Hmrlignan , and 3mg of Melatonin for 2 weeks now, but I have not seen any change. I will post on my thread.
Post every day for our support. Remember when I started Apollo, I posted everyday for support and to conquer my fears.
Just remember you got Corkster and Apollo in your concern , both on Trilostane.
Keep us posted.
hugs Sonja and Apollo

[lulusmom]

Hi Addy,

I'm really sorry that you are still on that roller coaster ride. Do you have whiplash yet?


Came back from IMS. She wanted to start Zoe on lower dose than 15mgs because she is highly sensitive to drugs and her intestinal tract may get upset. We likely need a higher dose to control her Cushings but wants to give her body chance to adjust.

The more conservative with a dog like Zoe, the better and from what we've seen around here, Zoe could stabilize on 10mg or less a day or she could end up needing a dose several times higher. Time will tell.

Dechra (per Dr. Allen) and UC Davis protocol would be 10mgs for Zoe so I agreed to her starting dose of 10mgs SID. First pill is Saturday. She wants to do stim June 13th. Told her Dr. Peterson's instructions. She said she would call him if I wanted but she did not want to wait 2 weeks to check Zoe. Wants to check in 7-10 days and wants to do stim. I said I have no problem for her to do it her way. She is the one who is here with Zoe and has been treating her. Zoe's weight at vet was 18 pounds.

I think Dr. Peterson's instructions make absolute sense but I am one of those creatures of habit who doesn't like change so I personally feel more secure having the results of an acth stim test to look at.

I have to stop the melatonin and lignans for now as we introduce Vetoryl. I forgot to ask Dr. Peterson that. She does not want her on them to start treatment.

I don't think Dr. Peterson is convinced that high intermediate hormones cause a problem so I will be interested to hear what he has to say about melatonin and lignans.


I am very concerned stopping the melatonin will give me bad poops.

I didn't catch this earlier today but I see now that "you" are antipating bad poops for yourself from the stress of taking Zoe off of melatonin. After Rene's hilarious story, this sent me over the edge again. :D:p:D Sorry to laugh at your expense but you have to admit that you made a funny.


I was not expecting that. :eek::eek: Now I am stopping something and starting something new and I won't know cause and affect. It took me over 6 weeks to wean her of Shen Calmer. The melatonin originally gave her firm stool.:confused::confused::(:(

Not sure what to do about the melatonin and lignans but she insisted they be stopped for now. INSERT HUGH SIGH ICON HERE.

Have you tried meditation or perhaps some quaaludes. :p

Splitting headache Addy

[addy]

Oh stop it:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Do I sound that bad????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I sound worse than I feel I think. I'm like a dog with a bone, when i get something in my head I cant let go:o:o:o

I'm over it already. i have to be over it or hubby will divorce me;)

Love ya,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin' Addy,

If it helps, I'm nervous with you! TWO changes at once! Stopping something Zoe has adjusted to and starting something entirely new. I would be following Trink around with towels, baby wipes and tears, blathering like an idiot. :p Cat is working with me to develop a more balanced menu for her and I am nervous just thinking about it. :o We can sure worry ourselves into a state, huh? :o:D

This is going to go just fine, I bet. In a few months, you will look back on these days and wonder why you were so worried. ;) Everything is going to work just like it should and Zoe will be a new pup in no time. I am holding to this thought!

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

PS. Slippery elm works for humans, too! ;):p

[addy]

If it helps, I'm nervous with you! TWO changes at once!

Thanks Leslie, I knew you would understand that thing I am not supposed to talk about;):rolleyes::(

I get over it for an hour and it comes back:eek::eek::eek:

She had a soft poo this morning:eek: (probably from stress at vets, she was not a happy camper)

I gave her 1.5 mgs melatonin instead of 3mgs before work, I'll see how she does. I can't just stop it cold turkey:eek::eek::eek:

I can't delay for a week and detox her cause IMS is going out of town to a conference so our window was small.:(:(:(

Hubby called me at work and left message to call. I freaked out thinking it was an emergency and that he had gone home and she had soft serve stool all over kitchen:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Turns out he was trying to get her Vetoryl prescription filled.:D:D

I need a case of CHOCOVINE and I need it NOW:p:p:p

Maybe puppy pictures will work. I'll go check out Ella.

Love ya,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking in to give you support. Praying that it will settle down for you.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[marie adams]

Oh Addy,

It is a scary thing to stop something you know works, but sometimes we have to have a little faith, did I mention "a little", with the IMS. The thing is you can always go back on the lignans and melatonin at some point; so it is never forbidden again.

I have freak outs now that Ella might have something wrong when she sleeps so much or drinks so much water, her poops are very soft--I never had this when Maddie was a puppy. So we worry if they are healthy and we worry when they are sick--we are messed up, but get that Chocovino in you fast!!!!!:D:D

I put more pictures up if you didn't see all of them.

Thanks for being there for me when you need big ((((HUGS)))) now!!!:):)

[MBK]

Oh, Addy...you do need Chocovine DESPERATELY. I think most (or maybe even all) of us here are kind of shell shocked by everything that Cushing's brings or potentially can bring. I know when my always healthy Maxwell suddenly stopped eating I had cancer and everything else imaginable going through my head. His vet obviously was not nearly as concerned (didn't even take blood!) and Max is fine. "Minor bug" never occurred to me! :o

So, your worrying is normal in our world. :eek: Conservatively starting at 10 mg. and checking her sooner sounds like a really good idea to me. And, probably a good idea to see how she reacts to just the Vetoryl alone, too. I'm all for extra caution! I'd tell you not to worry, but I know that won't happen....so get yourself a bottle of Chocovine. You need the distraction!!!

Hang in there!

[addy]

Thank you all,

I'm not worried about the Vetoryl as much as the stopping the melatonin. I know it sounds weird, but it helped her poos. I guess if you think the theory is she has stress colitis from high cortisol and it is causing her to make bacteria then I can understand why the melatonin helped her even though that was not in the game plan:p

Hopefully as her cortisol comes down, the stress will be less though, she has a good chance of getting worse as we lower it. That's the problem, we have no idea how it will go.

I would be fine, I just found this an unexpected turn of events.;)

She is fine right now. So off I go to see if she will poo:p:p I will cut her melatonin dose again tomorrow. I just can't stop it cold turkey, goes against everything I know about Zoe.

Let ya all know,

Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy!
I just caught up on Zoe.
I wanted to let you know that when Palmer started out on 10mg of Vetoryl, we had zero side effects. :) There was nothing negative.:) Even the vet was surprised at how well he did from the git go.:D:D
Why are we so all consumed with poop when, why, where and in what state???
Love,
Susan

[addy]

So far so good, perfect poo!!!!!!!

When your dog has colitis and she is in remission, life is great. When flare ups occur and you can't get them under control, life stinks:D:D:D:D:D

After three years of this, my mood is determined by Zoe's poop.. Sad state of affairs:p:p:p:p:p At least I know that and admit it;);)

Happy Friday to all.

Love,
Addy

[labblab]

Hi Addy,

I just want to wish you and Zoe the best of luck with the trilostane treatment! I know you've been getting lots of good feedback from so many folks. And even though I've been pretty quiet lately, that doesn't change the fact that I'm also following your journey every step of the way and wishing you well. ;) :)

Please give Zoe a big hug for me, OK?
Marianne

[addy]

Thank you so much Marianne:)

She had her pill at about 5:45 am:rolleyes: She got up early again.

I got a bit worried around 8:30 am as she would not settle and kept chewing and chewing on her Kong and panting and panting and her tummy seemed bloated. I turned the air conditioning down a degree and she is now sleeping next to me and not panting. She usually only acts like that if she has tummy problems but it could have been a bit of anxiety without the melatonin in her. She was fine yesterday without it.

I am watching her like a hawk:):)

Love,
Addy

[Harley PoMMom]

We're here for you and Zoe!!! ;):) Sending positive and calm energy your way.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[addy]

Thank you Lori,

I guess it was her tummy being gassy because I just took her out and her stool is soft and wet.:(:(:( Need big sigh icon here

Otherwise she seems fine, barking at me for her snack.:D

She gets her metronidazole tonight so we'll see what happens.

Hugs,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Addy,

Hanging with you, sweetie! I hope her tummy has settled down a bit since your last post and she will have no further issues.

Keep in touch and let us know it's going!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Sorry haven't been checking on you. How is our little Zoe doing?
Cheering you on.:p
Apollo has the gas and yes the panting. It must be a cushing thing. I spray him with water in the car and at home to cool him down. Also you might trying wetting a cotton bandana with cool water and tying it around her neck , I do with Apollo.
With a little time some issues should clear up.
Praying for you and Zoe.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[MBK]

Hi, Addy.

Just checking in to see how Zoe and you are doing. You're in my thoughts! Wish I could bring you a glass of ChocoVine! Hang in there!!!

[addy]

Hi Leslie, Sonja and Mary Beth,

We are fine. Zoe is patiently waiting for her dinner. I am making them wait until 5:30 because Koko threw up wood chunk an hour ago:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am trying to figure out when to take off work. She goes for her stim June 13th. Do I have to be more worried a few days before or a few days after? Hubby is home until 2:30pm except on fridays. I get home at 5:30.

Which week is more worrisome this coming week or the week after her stim?

I guess I may have to take it day by day. Maybe I will just plan it that way.

Let you know how her poops are after dinner. I planned to give her 1.5 mgs melatonin yet tonight. IMS said I could give normal dose yet today but I am trying to wean her down the last 3 days. She said I could give normal dose for thunderstorms.

I am thinking out loud.;);););) Pay no attention to my rambling.

Love ya all. Thanks for checking, means alot.

Addy

[littleone1]

Dearest Addy,

You're stressing yourself out. After the first few days, you'll know how Zoe is doing on the Trilo. Since Zoe's already had a stim test and didn't have any problems with it, she should be fine after her next stim. You'll probably have to wait a day or two before you get the results. Once they come in, there's always a possibility that her dosage might have to be increased.

Definitely take it one day at a time.

[marie adams]

Dear Addy,

Let me hold your hand--feel it????:D Now squeeze it!!!

It is a stressful time, but try not to over do it. You have everyone here to help. Zoe will do better than you think. And Koko is taking some of the stress away with throwing up--haha!!!:eek:

So glad you have flowers growing with the weather being so cold. The zinnias are about to burst with color and I will take a picture as soon as it happens and before little miss "I have to put everything in my mouth" gets to them.:D:D

Think happy thoughts!!!:p

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Dido to what everyone said. No need to worry now. Take it one day at a time. Never a dull moment with these little rascals.:p Hope Koko feels better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Hi Guys,

I think I always sound more stressed than I feel. I do my best work under pressure, lots of pressure. At the office, I am always under tons of pressure and I respond to that. So I just always put lots of pressure on myself. Obsessive, compulsive, I think you would call me:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thank you for the hand holding, I could feel it, Marie.:D:D

And I could feel your positive vibes Sonja.:D:D:D

Last night was uneventful. This morning we went through an hour of the heavy panting. That is a bit new. She usually does not pant that hard or long unless we are headed for major diahrrea. I turned the air down again and she settled again and is snoring on the sofa next to Koko.:confused::confused::confused:

Maybe just the change in weather, It has been much warmer and more humid but the house is not hot, we have had that air conditioning set at 72 for her. My friend's Lhasa does not do well in the heat either.

I saved all kinds of vacation days to be with her when we did this and I have to use them before August but I want to be smart about using them.

I found beautiful fowers to put in the planters by the pool. I am soooo excited to go out and pot them up. Gardening is a great distraction!!!!!!!!!

Love you all,
Addy

[apollo6]

doing good , friend. Apollo is panting more also, maybe the warmer weather. Cushings babies are very heat intolerant. Also I don't know if when they get older they have more difficulty with the heat. But it could also be they get windy more easily with what cushing can do to the organs. Enjoy your flowers.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Addy!

My experience with Palmer was that the stim tests were a non-event. He was just glad to get to go home, on the ones where he stayed.

About the panting.....once the correct level of Trilostane was attained, the panting, the distended stomach all became pretty uneventful-almost like non-issues. I think the tummy will only go down but so far.....until, for Palmer, he got so very sick.
Zoe seems to have multiple issues, however.....so you will know what's best. If I were you, and I don't really feel fully informed here, if you have leave to use or lose, I would do it toward the end of your time period-more near the deadline. If there is nothing requiring your immediate attention, keep on working and keep the routine going. Then take that time off and enjoy the heck out of Zoe and KoKo!!

Can Bailey and I come over and go for a swim??!!??

Love,
Susan

[addy]

Can Bailey and I come over and go for a swim??!!??

Sure, everyone can!!!! It will take about 2 weeks to get the water up tothe right temperature (I like 85)and all the chemcial levels to go down. You have to "shock" the pool when you open it. Last year I was so upset about Zoe, I did not enjoy the pool. This year I am already happy to see it open.

She went out and had a poo at 11:30 which she usually does not do and then stopped panting. I am sure it is about her poos. The panting always was before.

She seems like she does not feel quite right today, She was doing a lot of lip licking and yawning, calming signals. She is acting like she does when her colitis is bothering her.

I'll see how tonight goes.

Hope the city was fun!!!!

Love,
Addy

[MBK]

Hi, Addy.

I hope things are calming down a bit with Zoe. Isn't it awful to stare at them and wonder what every little thing they do or don't do means?! Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Keeping you all in my thoughts and sending much positive energy your way.

[addy]

Thank you Mary Beth,

Yeah, if only they could talk. :D She had the "colitis tail" on her poos twice today. We have not seen that for over six weeks. She doesn't get metronidazole tonight. I'll see where I am in the morning. Might have to call IMS about going back on metronidazole twice a day until we see where we are. I don't want to rush that though. Maybe her insides will calm down and adjust.

Taking it one day at a time. She perks up in the evening. If she stops barking for her food, I'll know it is serious:D:D:D:rolleyes:

Thanks for checking on us. Give Ali extra hugs!!!!!!

Love,
Addy

Love,
Addy

[apollo6]

Dear Addy
Just checking on you and Zoe. You are doing good. Try to breath and believe it will get better.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[addy]

Well, we have no panting this morning, she is alert and happy but her stool is formed but really soft and very wet, almost mush.

I will go to work this morning and come home at noon, see where she is with hubby and call IMS. She had her metronidazole this morning, not last night.

I pretty much knew this would happen but I guess a small part of me hoped it would not.:(:(:(

It is just hard to see as it took me all those months to get her better. All that work, so slow and painstaking gone.:(:(:(

We continue on and will make her better again.

Love,
Addy

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, Addy,

She may adjust yet....it's just a lot to deal with all at once for her system. Hopefully, she is just shocked a teeny bit with the changes but will settle back down very soon. When I read "colitis tail" my first thought was "grab the elm!" I am so pleased with how it works for Trink that is my first response to tails now. :p

I hope you find all is well at lunch and you can breath a bit better this afternoon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

I wish I could "ELM" her, Leslie, Lord only knows how I wish I could, but I can't try something new right now.

To confuse it more, with are having a bad thunderstorm approaching. She is afraid of thunderstorms.:( IMS said I could give her melatonin for that but I need to see where I am with her without it right now. She seems to start acting like she feels yucky around 8:30. She gets her vetoryl at 5:30 to 5:45. Not sure if it bothers her tummy or her cortisol is dropping and she "has that yucky feeling," I don't now why but I just started singing that Righteous Brother"s song 'You've lost that loving feeling replacing the words with yucky feeling:D:D:D

Now I can't stop laughing and keep singing it. I must be losing it:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes::p;):D


Let you know,
Addy

[littleone1]

I'm hoping that Zoe's treatment with Trilo continues to go well, and that you continue to see improvements.

[marie adams]

I knew you lost it a long time ago!! :D:eek::D

I sure hope it is only getting use to the new medicine for Zoe. Of course you know best and I trust your judgment. :o

I hope your Monday gets better!!! :p

[Harley PoMMom]

Sending huge and loving hugs!! ;):)