Savannah - rescued 7 yr old corgi mix (Are Cushpups adoptable?)

[Bonnie]

HI,
sorry to hit reply but I don't know how else to reach someone!!

I'm a rescuer (www.APlaceForUs.net) and have a cushinoid dog up for adoption. I joined the forum today to get some advice about this corgi mix but I can't figure out how to put up my first posting. I've looked at the FAQ's but they don't seem to help.

Can you help me figure out how to send my first posting to members of this group? It will simply be to ask if anyone has any ideas about whether a cushinoid dog is adoptable.

Thanks,
Bonnie

The dog is named Savannah and she's going on Trilostane as soon as it arrives from 1-800-Petmeds.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Bonnie,

See if this helps...

Go to the bottom of this page, past all the white part, into the green area, and you will see a drop down box called "Forum Jump" in bold print.

Open the box, select "Canine Cushing's Questions and Discussions", then click "Go" to open that page.

This will take you to the Q&D forum page. Look down that page, on the left hand side, toward the bottom, and you will see a blue button, "New Thread". Click.

A new page will open with a text box to post in. Decide on a title that reflects your case then tell your story...can't wait to hear it, either! :)

Hope this helps.
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[labblab]

Hi Bonnie and welcome.

As you can see, even though Leslie gave you some great instructions as to how to start a new thread yourself, I went ahead and moved your reply (and Leslie's, too) so as to create a new thread for you and Savannah. I'm sure that others will be by shortly to also welcome you and offer you both information and support.

Marianne

[frijole]

Welcome! We see alot of Corgis here. So are you the one that will be giving the trilo? Have you ever used it before? How might we help you? :D Tell us about Savannah and whatever else and we'll do our best. Kim

[labblab]

Hi again!

I'm back now with time to add a couple of thoughts about Savannah's situation. Cushpups ARE adoptable -- in fact, we've had a couple of members who joined us while they were considering adoption. They wanted to get as much information as possible in advance. So if you have any prospective parents who want to learn more so as to be better able to make a decision, please don't hesitate to send them our way.

One of the adoption issues, of course, is the cost of treatment. However, if Savannah has already been diagnosed -- that can help a lot, because the front-end diagnostic costs can often be the most difficult for people to absorb. In that vein, can you tell us more about Savannah's diagnosis? What tests were performed, and the actual test results would be very helpful to us. Cushing's can mimic other diseases, so it can often be a puzzle sorting out exactly what is going on.

If Savannah is just beginning trilostane treatment, then there will be additional up-front monitoring costs. ACTH monitoring tests should be performed approx. two weeks after beginning treatment (and after any dosing change), and then at 30 days, and then at three-month intervals. But once stabilized on the medication, there need not be excessive additional costs beyond that of the quarterly ACTH tests and the trilostane itself.

Prospective parents of Cushpups do need to be attuned to the behavior of their dogs. Because in addition to test results, behavioral cues are also critical in judging whether medication adjustments are required. So an adopting parent would need to be someone who recognizes that Cushing's is not a disease that is cured, but instead one that can be managed very well -- as long as the pup is monitored properly. With appropriate treatment, Cushing's dogs can live out their natural lifespans with an excellent quality of life.

These are just a few "beginning" thoughts. Again, any additional info that you can give us regarding Savannah's health history and testing will be really helpful to us.

Marianne

[acushdogsmom]

Although we have lots of people here who use trilostane to treat, I don't know much about trilostane use (my Cushing's dog was treated with Lysodren) and I only have a minute to reply, but I thought it might be good to post a picture of Savannah here in this thread - you never know, someone here might just fall in love with her, or know someone who might fall in love with her. :)

So here's a couple of the pictures of Savannah which are currently on Bonnie's website, at http://www.aplaceforus.net/dogs.html#SAVANNAH

Savannah is absolutely adorable!

http://www.aplaceforus.net/dogs/Sav%20floor.jpg http://www.aplaceforus.net/dogs/Savcouch.jpg

[zoesmom]

Didn't one of our members, Joyce, adopt her Angel (a beagle with cushings) from you a few years ago, Bonnie??? Your webpage looksk familiar. Joyce isn't around here much lately. I can't even remember, but I think Angel is still with her. Joyce's name here is we3dogs. Ring a bell? Sue

PS - Savannah's adorble, by the way. How old and her weight? Or maybe you said?

[Nathalie]

Hello Bonnie and Welcome!

I have adopted out dogs to great homes with various health issues from seizures, blind, or HW +. All it takes is that one special person.

Savannah is still a young girl which also helps. I think a lot depends on where you are located and how well your area does economically since as you know cushings is not inexpensive to treat.
In my area for example it is terrible hard to find a home for a healthy beagle but a ShiTzu with health issues would have no problem finding a good home.

She will need a lot of exposure and it probably might take some time and/or you need to consider a home that would usually not be in your adoption realm but it should be absolutely possible to find Savannah a good home.
Come to think of it I remember a couple of dogs finding perfect homes while in heart or renal failure or in wheelchairs.

Looking forward to learning more about you and Savannah.:)
Nathalie

[mytil]

Welcome from me too. Oh she is such a sweetie pie!!!!!

Yes, Sue, Joyce did adopt Angel and last I heard she is doing well I believe on Trilostane.

Be sure to check out our Resources section on Trilostane - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185.

Keep us posted
Terry

[k9diabetes]

I've seen several dogs with diabetes be adopted and that requires someone to give two insulin injections a day. So no question a Cush pup is adoptable.

She really is a beautiful dog - I have no doubt that she will find a great home.

Natalie

[Bonnie]

thank you all. I hope this reaches you. I hope I'll be able to post pics of her on the thread. She's such a doll, good with cats, all dogs, all people.

Yes, I'll be starting her on Trilostane, and yes I've used it before, several years ago for a beagle who was helped through your site at that time. A wonderful woman from my state of Mass. adopted the cushinoid rescue beagle and I supplied her with several months of trilostane. That was about 6 years ago. I got the trilostane from Masters LLC in England. However, this time they said they're not allowed to sell 60 mg. capsules in the US, so yesterday I sent my prescription to 1-800-Petmeds and will start her as soon as the meds arrive. Savannah has no symptoms other than ravenous appetite and some hair loss on her upper abdomen.

My vet doesn't think Aniprel would help, and I think trilostane is a better bet than Lysodren. Do you all agree?

My vet also said I had the option not to treat at all.

Yet I hate to see her act hungry all the time!

More later, and thank you all so much. I've been rescuing 11 years and this is only my second cushingoid case.

Bonnie

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Bonnie,

Trilostane and Lysodren are BOTH very excellent and life-saving drugs for our cush pups. My boy Harley has PDH plus elevations in all his intermediate/sex hormones, thus making Trilostane not the best chioce for him. Harley is being treated with Lysodren.

You see, Trilostane can elevate some of the intermediate/sex hormones bc of the way it works. Lysodren on the other hand lowers most of the intermediate/sex hormones.

I truly believe what drug of choice to use is very dependent on what the GP/IMS is comfortable in using and has the experience in using. This is JMO, of course, and I am sure others will have their opinions as well. :)

Best of luck to you and Savannah...she is a cutie pie.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[zoesmom]

Bonnie - yes, that is who I was talking about in my earlier post. Joyce adopted a sweet beagle from you, just as "Angel" was starting on trilostane.

Just a tip - pethealthpharmacy.com might be cheaper for the trilostane in the future. They will quote you a price if you e-mail them with dose and qty.

Have you personally treated any dogs before with trilostane or for cushings? If not, you want to watch for signs of too much trilo. What does Savannah weigh as that is a critical factor? The signs are: lethargy, loss of appetite, vomiting, diarrhea, weakness in legs. My Zoe showed signs of trouble on the 2nd or 3rd day of starting tx, but it can occur anytime in the first few weeks so just keep a close eye on her. That dose might be slightly high for a beagle . . . or not! But it seems that many dogs do better starting off on a low dose and then working it up, if need be.

What tests were done to confirm Savannah's cushings dx? If you have the results, maybe you could post them here. Cushings can be tricky to dx. Did she have any other symptoms besides the voracious appetite and the hair loss? 'Cause most cush dogs drink a ton of water. The dx is probably good, but we just like to make sure before problems arise. ;) Sue

[acushdogsmom]

thank you all. I hope this reaches you. I hope I'll be able to post pics of her on the thread. She's such a doll, good with cats, all dogs, all people.Maybe you didn't see, but I actually posted a couple of pictures of Savanna back on page one of this (your) topic. :) http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1883

And I also uploaded one of Savannah's pictures as your "avatar" - the little picture that is next to your username. So people will be able to see Savannah's pretty face every time you post on our message board. :)

[lulusmom]

Hi Bonnie,

First let me say that I think you are a gem for pursuing a diagnosis for Savannah. While rescues do get some discounted medical, the testing for cushing's is usually not discounted for obvious reasons so I commend you for going the distance for Savannah.

I work in rescue also and I adopted a cushingoid foster over two years ago. I already had a cushdog so I knew the signs and pushed the rescue to have him tested asap. He was a total mess and an increased appetite was the least of his problems. He is unadoptable due to his snippy attitude and despite perfect control of his cushing's, he still drinks copious amounts of water and pees buckets. I also fostered a little ShihTzu that was being treated for cushing's and after two years a wonderful couple adopted her. So yes, there are very special people out there that have huge hearts and don't mind the time and expense it takes for our special needs babies.

Savannah is sure a cutie and I wish you much luck in finding a special family to take her into their home and their hearts. I hope you stay on with us and give us Savannah's complete history, including posting the results of the tests your vet did to diagnose her. This will make it very easy for Savannah's new family to pick up where you leave off. Please feel free to turn them over to very capable hands here who will guide them every step of the way and answer any questions they may have. That way, you can devote your time to the untold furbabies that need you more.

Hugs,
Glynda

[Casey's Mom]

She is very cute - love that face!! Bless you for your efforts with Savannah. I believe they are adoptable especially for someone who has knowledge of cushings. They won't be afraid of the diagnosis -

Love and hugs,

[Bonnie]

Hi,

I'm not sure who will be getting this. I want to answer and ask some questions but don't know how the system works.

thanks, Natalie, for giving me hope that someone might adopt Savannah.
And Terry, I'm so glad you mentioned Joyce. It's been a long while since I've heard from her and am delighted to hear that Angel is still doing well. I will indeed check out your resources. I start Trilostane as soon it arrives--in the next few days and am pinning my hopes on it.

And I agree Natalie, about how paradoxical it is that sometimes it's easier to find a home for a sick dog than a healthy one. It all depends on the breed I guess. Savannah is 35 lbs, so people wanting a lap dog would find her too large.

Thank you all so much for your input. Marianne, your lissting of the tests that will need to be done in the first month is helpful.

I think I mentioned (but I'm not sure) that the only test I've done so far is chest x-ray, hypothyroid test, and urine/cortisol, which the vet said was at a level of 50.

I'm debating whether in my ads about Savannah, I should indicate how much the annual expenses might be to treat her. I know that people will be thinking of the expense anyway, so I guess I might as well face the issue head on.

I intend to put up a vidwo of Savannah on YouTube in the next few days.

If you go to www.YouTube.com, you then can use the search term "APlaceForUsDogs" and you'll find her.

Thanks everyone for listening.


Bonnie






I

[lulusmom]

Hi,

I think I mentioned (but I'm not sure) that the only test I've done so far is chest x-ray, hypothyroid test, and urine/cortisol, which the vet said was at a level of 50.


Bonnie, I came to a screeching halt when I read this. Your vet cannot confirm a cushing's diagnosis based solely on a urine/cortisol creatinine ratio. This is a screening test and if the ratio is high like Savannah's, cushing's is a possibility but additional testing MUST be done. Extreme stress and any underlying conditions can increase circulating cortisol and result in a high UC:CR ratio. Cushing's is the most difficult canine disease to diagnose and it is also the most misdiagnosed disease. Unfortunately, none of the tests are 100% reliable so multiple tests must be done to validate and support a diagnosis.

I would suggest an LDDS, which is cheaper than the acth stim test and it is likely to tell you which form of cushing's you are dealing with. If not, an abdominal ultrasound would be the next step. I realize that rescues have limited funds and if you don't have enough money to do the appropriate tests, then it would be much better to wait until you do. Cushing's is a very slow progressing disease so you have plenty of time. Please do not give Savannah Vetoryl without a confirmed diagnosis. Cushing's won't kill her any time soon but Vetoryl and a vet that doesn't understand how important it is to do appropriate testing could if she doesn't have cushing's.

Glynda

P.S. Do you have a Face Book account for your rescue?

[zoesmom]

Hi Bonnie - I strongly second what Glynda has said. Starting a dog on a serious cushings drug like trilostane (or lysodren) WITHOUT further testing could be a recipe for disaster. The cortisol/creatinine ratio test canNOT confirm cushings, it can only rule it out. True, Savannah's result was well above the magic number (think that's 13). So, in other words, anything below that number would mean no cushings while anything above that number simply means that the dog MAY OR MAY NOT have cushings. Further testing would be needed to tell for sure. In fact, are you sure that result wasn't from an ACTH test?. They would have kept Savannah at least an hour to do that one. I don't recall ever seeing a '50' on a uccr test. It may be possible - I'm just not sure. (Anybody know??) But we do see ACTH results as high as 50.

I also agree that the LDDS is the best next step. Depending on LDDS results, then no further testing may be required as it can sometimes indicate which kind of cushings (adrenal or pituitary.) If the LDDS comes back positive but without suggesting which kind of cushings it is, then an u/s of the adrenals is a good tool and can usually give that answer. That, in itself (i.e. which kind of cushings) isn't something that you would need to know in order to go ahead and treat . . . other than if it WAS adrenal, there are two options. Surgery can offer a permanent cure (probably not an option for Savannah, as a rescue). Alternatively, with adrenal cushings, lysodren would be the preferred drug. But it usually requires a longer loading period and a higher dose in cases of adrenal tumors. So that would be the advantage to knowing which kind you are dealing with. Plus, an u/s allows a look at the other main organs which can tell you alot. For instance, in a cush pup, the liver is likely to be enlarged, too.

But I can't stress enough how important further testing is, at this point. Are you using this vet because he gives a discount for rescues? I really hope you can find a way to consult with another vet about Savannah. Like Glynda said, there is no rush. Cushings is a slow-progressing disease, but a dog who doesn't have it and is given a cushings drug can wind up in serious trouble in short order. If I recall, Angel wasn't Joyce's first cush pup so I know she knows a lot about the disease and maybe could even suggest a different vet (assuming you aren't too far from her) who fully understands the testing and treatment options. Sue