Pain management advice please

[earthflower]

Hi - My little Cody was diagnosed with Cushings over 2 year ago - about 6 months later he went completely blind. He is 10 now and has started having trouble with his back legs just climbing stairs and getting up from a sitting position. I have chosen not to prolong his life, but want to keep him out of pain and as happy as possible as long as possible. My vet doesn't appear to really know much about Cushings. Do any of you have any advice?

[Casey's Mom]

Hi - My girl Casey had the same symptoms from arthritis which showed up after treatment for Cushings began because the high cortisol levels in an untreated cushings dog will mask the arthritis symptoms. Not sure if this is what is causing your dog pain - perhaps someone else on this site will have some other ideas.

Casey is on Adequan injections for her arthritis and I also have given Tramadol for pain when necessary but haven't had to use it since beginning Adequan. She is also on L-glutamine and glucosamine chondroitin.

All of the above are safe to give Cushings dogs.

[earthflower]

Oh thank you for your input - I'll ask the vet today. What Cody has appears to be a Cushings related muscle problem in his back and back legs called myo-something. He's pretty advanced, but still a happy boy! I have him on the glucosamine and chondroitin (spelling?) and have tramadol but would prefer not to use something so intense. My friend told me about EC asperin - do you know anything about that?

[forscooter]

Hi,

Just have a second but I wanted to get back to you. My Bailey had horrible arthritis and hip dysplasia. Enteric coated aspirin is not usually recommended bc they can't digest the coating. Buffered aspirin is OK though. The other thing I used was Metacam.

The problem with aspirin and NSAIDs in Cushpups can sometimes be a risk of GI bleeding so some people do not believe in using it. I found, for me, and with my vet's guidance, that as long as the Cushing's was controlled it was OK and I only ever gave it with a full meal so the GI tract was coated from it. Metacam was a lifesaver for us and is a once daily dosing.

Others will be by I am sure with things that they have used too. I do trust my vet and his thoughts were that aspirin was safe and cheaper and OK as long as the conditions above were met (the controlled Cushing's and giving it with food).

You may want to ask your vet as well about using these products.

Sending wishes for comfort, Beth

[earthflower]

Thanks so much for your words and wishes - It is so helpful to have knowledge when talking with my vet! We just went thru a $2000 ligament surgery with my other little girl pup, so the animal budget is terribly depleted right now.

[littleone1]

Hi,

Corky also has arthritis. He was taking Metacam before he was diagnosed with cushings. I don't use it anymore. If I see that he is in pain, I give him baby aspirin. I also give him 1/2 a tablet of Pepcid AC when I have to give him the baby aspirin, as this was recommended by his IMS.

Terri

[forscooter]

Yes, Terri, I forgot that! Pepcid AC is also a wonderful thing. I totally understand about the tight budget so you may want to ask about the aspirin too. Metacam is more expensive. And yes, some people are anti-NSAIDS with Cushing's. Depending on weight will give you the dose and your vet can do that. I know my boyfriend used it for pain in his dog, and it helped very much!
Sending both your pups well wishes!!! : )
Beth

[labblab]

Welcome from me, too, to both you and Cody!

It sounds as if you are not actively treating Cody for his Cushing's disease? Is that correct? If so, I think his hind-leg trouble is more likely the result of muscle-wasting from the Cushing's rather than an arthritic process. Lacking the muscle strength in the hind legs to climb stairs or to jump up is a common symptom of the disease. If that is the case, then pain-killers will not help solve the problem...

Can you tell us more about Cody's Cushing's diagnosis? Does he have other Cushing's symptoms, and has he been officially tested by your vet?

Thanks in advance for any additional information that you can give us.

Marianne

[earthflower]

He was diagnosed 2-1/2 years ago by the process of elimination - we had hoped it was a thyroid problem I think, but that test proved negative. He had 8 of the 10 basic symptoms. He started losing his sight right after diagnosis, which is also a side effect of Cushings I found out, so when he went completely blind I made the decision not to prolong his life, but just let him live it out healthy and happy. I took him to a holistic vet and was prescribed herbs and a special barley, beef, vegetable diet - he just thrived, but now 2 years later, I'm afraid the disease is winning. Yes, I believe this is the muscle wasting from Cushings - I just want to make sure he is not in any pain from here on out. All your thoughts are so comforting.

[earthflower]

Teri - what is the weight of your dog? Cody is about 35 pounds. Baby asperin and pepsid AC would work for us if it's not harmful to him.

[labblab]

He was diagnosed 2-1/2 years ago by the process of elimination - we had hoped it was a thyroid problem I think, but that test proved negative. He had 8 of the 10 basic symptoms. He started losing his sight right after diagnosis, which is also a side effect of Cushings I found out, so when he went completely blind I made the decision not to prolong his life, but just let him live it out healthy and happy.
It may be the case that Cody does not suffer from Cushing's at all. Blindness is actually not a Cushing's side effect, but it IS a side effect of a disease that can mimic Cushing's called SARDS (Sudden Acquired Retinal Degeneration). Here is a link that tells more about SARDS. Some dogs may suffer from both conditions, but not all SARDS dogs are also Cushinoid.

http://www.eyevet.ca/sards.html

Aside from the problem with his hind legs, does Cody still exhibit other symptoms of Cushing's (such as excessive thirst and appetite?). If not -- if they were only present around the time that Cody went blind -- then he may not be a Cushpup at all. Your vet could perform a relatively simple screening urine test which might rule out Cushing's. Whether or not he truly has Cushing's could affect your treatment decisions now. For instance, untreated Cushpups really are at a greater risk for GI bleeding if given aspirin.

Marianne

[earthflower]

Somewhere I read SARDS was a Cushings-related problem - he went blind within 2 weeks, so I took that for granted...he has most of the classic signs - hair loss, pot belly, excessive thirst and appetite, thinning skin with blotches. The vet seems to be pretty sure it is Cushings...I'll check on the urine test tho - thank you!

[littleone1]

Corky weighs 17.7 pounds now. At 20 pounds of weight, he was able to have 20mg per day. The baby aspirin I have is 81mg per pill. Therefore, he can take 2 a day. I had gone on the web to obtain information about the mg dosage per pound. If I can find it again, I will let you know what it is.

Corky took baby aspirin many years ago, and it was recommended by his vet. It didn't cause any problems for Corky.

Terri

[littleone1]

Hi. The information I found was that we can give dogs 10mg of baby aspirin per pound daily. I would definitely check with your vet first before doing this. Your vet knows what medical issues you are dealing with, and will be able to give you the correct mg dosage.

Terri

[jrepac]

Right, it is 8-12mg per pound every 12 hours (2 x a day, basically)...

Rather than use the orange baby aspirin, you may want to buy Vetrin or Arthrin chewables...Petco or Petsmart will have. They are chewable and usually have a buffer in them to make it easier on the tummy.

If you do use human aspirin, suggest giving with food and using Bufferin or generic/store brand buffered aspirin. Do not use enteric coated aspirin (like Ecotrin)...this coating will not dissolve quickly enough in the dog's digestive system and he/she will pass it out before it can be digested.

I've had very good results with Arthrin, if you can find it.

Jeff

[earthflower]

Just returned from the vet and they gave him Metacam - it's pretty expensive, but we'll see how it works. Thanks to all of you for your advice and sharing your experience. It's so comforting to know you are all out there and understand this terrible disease. My blessings to each one of you and your special fur baby.

[forscooter]

Metacam is what worked so well with my boys....however, if you are using it, especially with a untreated Cushpup, please make sure you only give it with a meal. It is an NSAID and as Marianne pointed out (and which I missed in your original post and apologize) but untreated Cushpups are at higher risk for GI bleeding....so I think food is a must to try and avoid this issue.

I hope you find some relief!
Beth

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome from me too.

As Marianne has already mentioned, if Cody truly is cushingoid, it is highly unlikely that he is experiencing any discomfort from arthritis so I would not recommend medicating him for that condition unless your vet is absolutely 100% sure his symptoms are attributable to arthritis and not cushing's. Dogs with cushing's have excess cortisol which is a natural anti-inflammatory so even if Cody had arthritis, he would be self medicating himself. Uncontrolled cushing's is probably the best treatment for arthritis pain there is. Metacam is a NSAID and NSAID's should absolutely not be prescribed to a dog with uncontrolled cushing's so I am really shocked that your vet would prescribe this. Please see the link below.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752

I'm glad that the holistic treatment kept the symptoms at bay for two years but as we've seen time and time again, there isn't any holistic or natural remedy that treats the root of the problem, being the excess cortisol. With Cody going blind in a matter of two weeks, it does sound as though it could be SARDS. It is suspected that there is a connection to Cushing's but nobody has been able to figure out what that connection is. It is known that a good many dogs will have cushing's symptoms prior to or after going blind and most almost always have a rise in intermediate hormones within several months of going blind. Some see symptoms go away after several months but with Cody's symptoms going back over two years, I doubt that this is the case with him.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you choose not to treat Cody? I ask because with effective treatment, dogs can live out their normal life expectancy and with a very good quality of life. If your vet is not familiar with the disease, he may have told you that the average life expectancy for a cushingoid dog is two years but we're here to tell you that this is utter nonsense. Many members have dogs that have treated for 7 or 8 years and the babies that are no longer with us, passed due to conditions other than cushings. Does Cody have other medical issues that you and your vet felt would take him from you or has debilitated him so badly that effective treatment is not an option?

It is a very graded disease and can take years to take a dog's life, usually from a seriously compromised immune system leaving a dog open to lethal infections, organ failure and the muscle wasting will continue. Cortisol is a catabolic steroid that speeds the metabolization of protein which is why a cushdog is always hungry. This also causes the muscle wasting which will continue left untreated and can render a dog unable to walk eventually. One of my cushdogs, Jojo, had such severe muscle wasting that he could barely walk, fell over a lot and his rear legs tremored constantly. He also has what is called pseudo myotonia which gave him a really stiff gait. This condition usually resolves with treatment but it did not for my Jojo but his muscle tone is back in full force and he romps around like pup now. His symptoms were very advanced, including horrific, bleeding infections in both eyes, both ears and abcesses in his mouth. He was an abandoned shelter dog that I rescued and ultimately adopted. The vet felt he had had the disease for a very long time. Jojo is going on his third year of treatment and Lulu is going on her fifth year of treatment....both are happy, loving pups with a zest for life.

It is a very expensive disease to diagnose and I realize that is a serious issue with some pet owners that are struggling to make ends meet. I can't imagine what I would do if I didn't have credit cards and a job that allows me to make monthly payments. You should always have a confirmed diagnosis before starting treatment, especially if starting treatment with Trilostane/Vetoryl or Lysodren; however, there is a drug that hasn't proven to be super effective, especially in dogs with severe symptoms but if I couldn't afford all the testing and conventional treatment, I'd sure give it a try. It's called Anipryl and it is known that it can be very effective in dogs with tumors in the pars intermedia lobe of the pituitary. Only about 20% of dogs with pituitary dependent cushing's have a tumor in this area but again, I think it's worth a try as opposed to no treatment at all. We have members who have seen good results with Anipryl and I hope they will share their experience with you.

If finances are an issue, there is help out there. I know because I am needy, needy, needy because by dogs are needy, needy, needy. :D Care Credit has been a blessing for us. Here's a link to financial assistance info in the event you might want to take a look see.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212&highlight=financial

And that's my two cents worth for the day or least for a while.

Glynda

[labblab]

Glynda has given you some terrific information here. I just want to "harp" a bit more myself about the dangers of giving aspirin or other NSAIDS to untreated Cushpups. Long-term steroid exposure of any form tends to irritate the upper GI tract and leaves both people and dogs at a greater risk for developing ulcers or GI bleeding. This is true whether the steroid is taken orally (prednisone, for instance), or whether the steroid comes from the high levels of circulating natural cortisone associated with untreated Cushing's. Aspirin and other NSAIDS only aggravate this problem and this risk.

Here is a quote from the website of the American College of Gastroenterology (http://www.gi.org/patients/gibleeding/index.asp#nsaid2) that discusses the increased risk for humans:


Patients taking NSAIDs who also are taking a prescription corticosteroid, medications like prednisone (in doses over 10 mg), have been found to have a seven fold increased risk of having GI bleeding.

I strongly encourage you to reconsider your reasons for wanting to give Cody pain meds. They will not help with hind-end muscle wasting caused by Cushing's. And unless he is genuinely "hurting" from a diagnosed painful ailment, you are probably subjecting him to unnecessary risk for no particular gain.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and a belated welcome to you and your baby,

I haven't commented on your thread before but I been reading and you have been on my mind quite a bit. Would love to hear from you and see how things are going. ;)

At the moment I am swamped but I do check in often to see what's going on. I have some thoughts for you that may help; when I can sit down a bit and pull it together, I will be back to chat.

Hope to hear from you soon!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bkdice]

Acupuncture did wonders for my boy's stiffness. He was walking over a mile every evening until 6 days before he passed at age 16 1/2. He was a cush pup and also battled lymphoma (with chemo). He did take a low dose of tramadol the last month or so of his life as well.

I've heard great things about Adequan too (as Casey's mom mentioned). Had the lymphoma not come into the picture, we would have added the shots to his acupuncture routine.

Best of luck to you!

[jrepac]

Hi and welcome from me too.

As Marianne has already mentioned, if Cody truly is cushingoid, it is highly unlikely that he is experiencing any discomfort from arthritis so I would not recommend medicating him for that condition unless your vet is absolutely 100% sure his symptoms are attributable to arthritis and not cushing's. Dogs with cushing's have excess cortisol which is a natural anti-inflammatory so even if Cody had arthritis, he would be self medicating himself. Uncontrolled cushing's is probably the best treatment for arthritis pain there is. Metacam is a NSAID and NSAID's should absolutely not be prescribed to a dog with uncontrolled cushing's so I am really shocked that your vet would prescribe this. Please see the link below.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752

It is a very expensive disease to diagnose and I realize that is a serious issue with some pet owners that are struggling to make ends meet. I can't imagine what I would do if I didn't have credit cards and a job that allows me to make monthly payments. You should always have a confirmed diagnosis before starting treatment, especially if starting treatment with Trilostane/Vetoryl or Lysodren; however, there is a drug that hasn't proven to be super effective, especially in dogs with severe symptoms but if I couldn't afford all the testing and conventional treatment, I'd sure give it a try. It's called Anipryl and it is known that it can be very effective in dogs with tumors in the pars intermedia lobe of the pituitary. Only about 20% of dogs with pituitary dependent cushing's have a tumor in this area but again, I think it's worth a try as opposed to no treatment at all. We have members who have seen good results with Anipryl and I hope they will share their experience with you.

I

This is true re: NSAIDS...they are risky for a cushings dog; I only use the doggy aspirin if needed, not as a regular thing. My vet had prescribed Rimadyl for her arthritis at one point and that was simply a disaster (this was before the Cushings was diagnosed, but suspected). My poor Mandy was staggering around the house and I knew something was wrong. It is true that the higher cortisol from cushings should ease arthritis pain(s)....I also rely on a daily supplement of glucosomine; this seems to help. You can get it in chewable crackers, tabs, etc.

Also, I've been using Anipryl (generic) for some time w/good results; the generic version is pretty affordable. Side effects are quite minimal; you may want to consider it.

Jeff

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

Would you mind answering a few questions for me?

What kind of dog is your baby? How much does he weigh? Does he have any other medical issues that you are aware of? Is he on any prescription meds? What herbs and/or supplements is he taking specifically? Has he been neutered?

With this info maybe we can come up with something to help him feel a bit better.

Like the others, I'm not sure he is feeling arthritic pain at this time, based on your posts. You do say he is still a happy boy, which I take to mean he still plays, gives chase, barks, and in general acts like a normal dog, other than the weakness in his back legs. Is this about right? When a pup is in pain you will usually see panting, lethargy, sometimes licking or rubbing the area that hurts, and/or loss of appetite. He could have muscle loss yet no pain. What signs of pain have you seen with him? Does he seem to have certain areas that are sensitive or touchy? If you can let me know more about the kind of pain you feel he is having, maybe I can help find a way to make him a bit more comfortable, tho your holistic vet would be the best choice. ;)

As you might have noticed, choosing not to treat a cush pup goes against our grain. :o We want to save each and every cush pup from suffering if we can. So when someone comes to us and says they have decided not to treat, we really want to see if we can help solve any problems and get the pup started on the way to regaining their life. I seriously doubt anyone here is sitting in judgment of you because of this decision; we just want to help if possible. So I hope you haven't taken offense at anything said and that you will be back to talk with us soon.

The bottom line is - this is YOUR dog and you alone make the decisions that effect his life. Our job is to help you understand what you are going to be dealing with, and help you find a way to cope and make him as comfortable as possible. The good news is, it takes years for Cushing's to do irreparable damage to organs, so hopefully your baby will be with you for some time yet.

I am glad you are here and look forward to learning more about the both of you very soon.

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bkdice]

From Leslie
As you might have noticed, choosing not to treat a cush pup goes against our grain. We want to save each and every cush pup from suffering if we can. So when someone comes to us and says they have decided not to treat, we really want to see if we can help solve any problems and get the pup started on the way to regaining their life.

I remember considering not treating at first since my boy was older, but getting all the facts about what can happen to their body / organs if we didn't treat, and learning more about the treatment options, finally brought me to treat with Lysodren (after being unsuccessful with Anipryl). It was scary at first, but it did give my boy his life back. I swear he dropped 5 years within days of being loaded on Lysodren and I have no regrets. :)

[Casey's Mom]

I also feel the same as Bkdice and I also did not want to treat at first because of Casey's age but now one year later I swear she is younger and not older than a year ago.

hugs to you,

[earthflower]

Hi - thank you all for your time and thoughts. Got a little delayed on working on this challenge - I've just been trying to recover from my other little dog's $1600 torn ligament surgery 3 weeks ago and the headgasket blew on my car this week! Anyway, to answer your questions, Cody is a terrier/poodle mix - looks like a Westie - weighs about 40 lbs. Like I said he was diagnosed 2 years ago by the process of elimination - the actual Cushings test was $400 to find out where the tumor was (?) and at the time my other little dog was in the throws of a coughing episode that lasted 10 weeks, round the clock, and was finally diagnosed as lung worms. Prednisone was the only thing that would stop the coughing as I couldn't afford a $1500 lung biopsy. Cody went blind within the first few weeks of diagnosis, and it was then that I decided not to prolong his life. I just didn't have the resources. He was 8-1/2 at the time. I am single, pay check to pay check living, and doing the very best I can for these wonderful friends of mine. The current problem is an extremely stiff gait, barely able to manage steps, and any pressure on his hind end and he'll collapse. His whole back end is hard as a rock. He is only on blood pressure meds and glucosamine and condrointin supplement. I don't know if he is in pain as he doesn't cry out - it's just so painful for me to watch. I live in a very small town and my vet doesn't appear to be very familiar with Cushings, although they are also aware of my financial situation. When I take him out for a walk he does pretty well, and his little spirit is happy and glad to be here. He eats well and rarely has accidents in the house. I'm pretty sure the problem is muscle wasting. I just don't want him in any pain as we continue this journey. Hope that helps.

[frijole]

Thanks for the update. Great to hear from you again. If you continue to decide not to treat the cushings then I might add a couple other items that might help. You mentioned glucosamine which is great. I would add fish oil to that. I just feed the capsult - my little piggy eats it right up. That will help the joints and the heart. For the liver I would buy milk thistle capsules., I pour it in my dogs food. No scientific evidence that it helps that I know of but it did lower my cush dog's liver enzymes. Hang in there and keep us posted. Kim

[earthflower]

I'll try anything I can right now - the Metacam doesn't appear to help much considering the price - how much fish oil? Just use the one I take myself? I also read that CQ10 helps, but can't find information on how much to give him.

[earthflower]

Oh, p.s. Can anyone tell me how to post a photo of Cody?

[labblab]

We would love to see a photo of Cody. In order to upload a photo (or "avatar" to be shown alongside your username when you post), look at the top of any page here and first click on "User CP" listed at the far left side of the menu bar. This takes you to your personal Control Panel. Then click on "Edit Avatar" which will be listed on the menu at the left-hand side of your profile page (under "Settings and Options"). This will allow you to upload a photo of Cody from your computer. :)

Marianne

[earthflower]

Thank you - there's my kids Lucy and Cody!

[forscooter]

Hi,

Just checking in on you. I wanted to just reinforce what Leslie said earlier from someone who has gone both ways on the treat v. not to treat issue. I had two Cushpups. I treated both and then stopped treating each for different reasons. I do understand the financial strain too, as a single parent, and with two sick dogs. But putting that aside for a second, I wanted to share my experience.

Scooter was being treated and then suffered from extreme allergies. I know many people here who advocated for me to take him to a specialist and start injections. But in that point in time of Scooter's life, and given how much he really despised all the vet visits and all the medications and all the stress that came with it....and given that I was nearly 20 grand in debt from testing and treating the two...I decided not to treat him at the very end. We had tried lots and lots of treatments for the allergies, diets, shampoos, lotions and potions, changed all my cleaning stuff, etc....but the bottom line was I decided to let his cortisol run a bit higher bc it was the only thing that helped. So I didn't stop treating completely...I just lowered his dose of Lysodren. I know there were/are people who disagreed with me as much as there were people who did...but the bottom line was they all remained supportive no matter what bc it was my decision to make and they respected that.

With Bailey, I treated a bit longer. But when it became evident that his arthritis was off the charts along with the dysplasia, along with the probability of an expanding tumor, I decided to stop the Lysodren completely and let nature take its course. His quality of life became better off the Lysodren than on it for a relatively long while. Eventually I did have to release him this past February.

If love alone could have saved my boys, they would still be here with me. My heart still hurts so much. But the very bottom line is I think, is that you do the best you can with what you have and what you can, and in doing that, no decision can ever be the wrong one.

Everyone here respects that. I am so glad you came back...I wish I had some helpful answers for you. I know I used fish oil too. Sharon (ventilate) once had all the dosing information bc it is much more than we thought at the time. Maybe you could send her a private message and she may be able to help with that?

I am wishing you all the best in whatever you decide to do and hope you keep us updated...

Lots of hugs, Beth

[earthflower]

I so appreciate your kind words and thoughts. Does anyone have any thoughts on what's going to happen now with Cody? I've read so much about Cushings, but never have found out how the disease will progress or what to expect.

[littleone1]

Hi,

I totally understand the financial burden with treating Cushings. Corky also has several other medical issues. The one thing that really helped me, is that I was able to get a reverse mortgage to help cover his medical bills.

When Corky was originally diagnosed with Cushings, his one vet recommended not treating it. I got a second opinion from his other vet, along with a vet in CA. I know that eventually, untreated Cushings can result in organ failure. It is a slow progressing disease, which helps.

Before Corky finally started being treated for it, he did have a voracious appetite, was drinking excessively, having accidents in the house, gained weight, had muscle weakness in his hind legs, was losing his fur, didn't have too much energy, and was having problems breathing. I had no idea what was going on with him, until he was tested for Cushings and diabetes. I had never heard of Cushings before that.

You can only do what you can handle. My thoughts and prayers are with you both. We all do the best we can for our furbabies.

Terri

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

I am so glad to see you back! I was worried that we had run you off. :(

Here is a link from our Resource section on what to expect with an untreated pup:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195

What food is Cody eating? Proteins will help the muscle tissue-give him an egg or some tofu a couple of times a week; a supplement that may help is l-Glutamine. The fish oil you want are fish body oils, preferably salmon or krill. Look for the highest EPA and DHA amounts when deciding which one to use. Milk Thistle can help the liver; Burdock may help as well. As for amounts, if the site/product doesn't tell what it is for a pup, we can help you find them for each supplement. Just let us know what you are planning to try and we will help you with the dosage. Of course, Sharon may be able to answer all those questions right away, too. ;)

My Squirt walks like a penguin, according to my grandson! :p Patella surgery years ago has left her with fairly stiff back legs so she has an odd gait, too. I know sometimes they really hurt her and at others they are ok. On the days her legs are bothering her, she gets Tramadol. Otherwise, her supplements and home-made menu work very well for her. Her problems are in the joints tho, not the muscle.

If the Metacam doesn't seem to be helping any, I'm not sure I would continue. But you want to talk to your vet about it before stopping. It may need a bit more time to build up in his system to start to work.

Another thing you want to be sure to do is keep Cody hydrated. Keep fresh water available to him at all times; if is seems he isn't drinking enough then add water to his feed; or you can add a salt substitute (potassium chloride) to encourage drinking. The best thing you can do for his kidneys is keep them flushed and functioning with plenty of fresh water. You may even want to consider something like Dandelion (a diuretic). Pineapple and papaya would be good treats for him...if he will eat them!

Supplementing Cody may help, but won't be less expensive than traditional treatments...nor as effective....IF he has Cushing's, something I am not convinced of just yet. :o;) With three pups on various supplements, herbs and diets it is a major cost for me and there are times I long for a single, simple, less expensive treatment for them all...but their situations don't allow for that so we struggle along and do the best we can....that is ALL any of us can do! ;)

Like Beth said, we are here for you and will do our best to help you and Cody down this path you have chosen. I, for one, will walk with you every step of the way and I know others will be with us.

Please stay in touch often, talk things out with us and ask any questions you have.

Keep your chin up!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[earthflower]

Great information - much appreciated. I'll have to go back thru and digest all that's been shared and then get a plan going. I feed both dogs a diet of cooked barley, sweet potatoes, string beans, broccoli, beets and either chicken breast or roast with a little high quality dry senior kibble for the glucosamine additive, plus another liquid glucosamine supplement, twice a day, plus a vitamin. Do I need to get the supplements in a pet store, or just from a health food store, i.e., are there special supplements for dogs?

[frijole]

I just give mine the same thing that I take! fish oil, glucosamine and milk thistle. we are aging together. ha. I can't remember the dosage for fish oil but I give mine one gel capsule a day and 1/2 milk thistle (powder) in the morning and sprinkle the 2nd half at night in with their food. Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi,

I prefer to use individual supplements VS combination's. The ones we use are purchased at a health food store (Whole Foods) or online from VitaCost, iHerb, Mountain Rose Herbs, and a few more sites from time to time. Most of them are human supplements and I know, based on weight, how much of each to give to who. There are supplements specifically for dogs, like from FosterSmith, but I have found that the human ones are less expensive and easier to find individually...plus you have a greater selection. A bit of research and trial-n-error will lead you to the best source for you. If you need help with links, let me know!

The diet you are feeding sounds fine from what I know of your pups. If either of them show any decrease in thyroid values, stop the broccoli; but as long as that remains in the normal range, not a problem. Broccoli is in the cruciferous family and will negatively impact any pup that is already hypothyroid but is healthy for normal pups.

Hope this helps.
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[earthflower]

Took Cody for a walk this afternoon and he collapsed and could not get up. He is barely able to walk but a few steps without sitting down. We have just returned from the vet with a recommendation to start Cushings diagnosis and treatment - $650 just to start, plus meds and followup tests - overwhelming. She thought she could buy him a couple of years, but you just don't know how much damage is done. I have come to a cross road as he has to manage about 25 feet and do about 3 steps to get to the lawn. Needless to say I am just so, so sad. I'm 5 ft. tall and he weighs 45 lbs. I think I might just have to turn this one over and pray for the best outcome.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey,

I am so sorry to hear about Cody's afternoon. :( That must be so hard for you to see. Bless your heart...and his.

Please check out the links found below. There are places that can help financially. I know many of us here use CareCredit. If you can get some help there, then you would be able to determine exactly what IS wrong with Cody, whether it is Cushing's or something altogether different and unrelated. Ask your vet what the cost would be to check for some other things that could cause the weakness you are seeing and what the chances are it might not be Cushing's at all.

As for Cushing's testing, there is one inexpensive test you can do called the UC:CR. It CANNOT diagnose Cushing's, but it can rule it out. If it comes back abnormal, then all it means is that further testing needs to be done to determine why. If it comes back normal, then you are not dealing with Cushing's and can turn your attention elsewhere.

As for lifting him...try a towel or pillowcase under his belly close to his hind legs, and lift a bit to give him some help back there. They do make slings specifically for this, too, but things can be found at home to use just as good. Someone used a t-shirt for their pup! This way he still maintains some freedom and your back isn't strained.

DO NOT let your vet convince you to start treatment just yet. "Process of elimination" just doesn't cut it when dealing with Cushing's. There are specific tests that need to be done and those together can provide a diagnosis, not individually and certainly not by elimination. :eek::eek: Cody could be much worse off if he starts treatment when he doesn't in fact have Cushing's.

Keep your chin up, sweetie. Sending prayers and healing thoughts for Cody, and you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

[earthflower]

Thanks Leslie - it's just so hard to know what to do and how much quality of life I can buy him without ending up homeless! This will work out, I know.

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi,
Hoping Cody is having an easier time today. On page 3 of your thread you asked about dosages for coQ10, I'm told (and use) 2mg per kg. So Franklin at 7.7kg gets 15ish mg per day, and Bailey 4.2kg has 10ish mg per day.
I bought ours from Vitacost, Thompson coenzyme q10 100mg, it's tangerine flavoured powder and comes with a little spoon for dosing.
Hope that helps,
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx
________
Only4Pleasure (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Only4Pleasure/)

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin',

How are you and Cody today? I hope you both are feeling a bit stronger and ready to face a new, better day. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[earthflower]

I'm afraid we may have hit the end of the journey - he can only take a couple of steps and collapses. It is close to impossible to get him outside...I think we will just try to enjoy this beautiful day together. A miracle would be wonderful right now...

[lulusmom]

Leslie gave you a link to the various possible financial assistance entities and I hope you have been busy contacting everyone on that list. I don't know if Angels 4 Animals is on that list but please make sure you contact them before giving up on Cody.

Excerpt from their website:

This is the major program of Angels4Animals. First we establish regional links with veterinary clinics across the United States. Veterinary clinics and private pet owners then let us know when there is an animal facing being euthanized or surrendered because of financial limitations. This is where Program Guardian Angel comes in. Working together with the clinic, we verify that the pet owner is unable to provide the funds needed to save their sick or injured pet. We then work out the financial arrangements with the clinic and authorize the treatment needed to save the pet. The owner is never asked or allowed to reimburse Angels4Animals for any of the money provided to save their animal.

http://www.angels4animals.org/

The miracle you want may be out there but you won't know unless you exhaust every possible avenue.

[earthflower]

Oh thank you - I just emailed them. I guess what's so hard is just not knowing what I will be buying him. Your words are such a comfort right now - thanks for taking the time to share this with us.

[littleone1]

Hi. I am so sorry for what you and Cody are going through. I'm hoping that there will be a miracle. I agree with Glynda. There's always hope that we can help our furbabies.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Squirt's Mom]

The unknown is the worst for me. Not knowing what is going on, what this or that means, what all the options are available to me, what the possibilities/probabilities are...not to mention the all elusive "why?". :o One thing I had heard all my life was "knowledge is power" but until Squirt got sick, it was just a phrase. Now I KNOW it is fact, not a simply cliche'.

When it was first mentioned that she might have Cushing's I dove head-first into finding out exactly what that meant for her...I had to; she is my heart-n-soul dog, my child, so I could do no less. Terrified? OMG, yes! But I plowed on anyway, I had no choice. I had to KNOW what this was and how to deal with it, how to help her.

I believe if you can learn what's going on with Cody, you will be less likely to feel so helpless, so over-whelmed. Sometimes an answer, even one we didn't want to hear, brings it's own form of relief and, at times, empowerment.

Talk to your vet, explain your situation in detail and see if they will work with you somehow - payments, labor in exchange for services, anything. My vet has their own in-house line of credit. Contact your local animal shelter or Human Society; sometimes they are able to assist either financially or via services through them.

Please don't give up on him just yet. As Glynda said, exhaust all avenues first....then we will go from there, ok?

Hang in there!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[sunimist]

I pray you will heed the great and caring advice of lulusmom (Glynda) and Squirt's Mom (Leslie) for Cody's sake. Please don't give up on that precious little soul. I know how finances can drastically alter medical intervention, (been there myself) but there is help available if pursued, and I am so glad you are doing that. Just stay strong and reach out for Cody.

I am so sorry Cody is not doing well and pray he will start improving very soon.
Hang in there....We've all been there at some point with our babies and it is a very frightening and lonely place to be.

(((HUGS)))

Shelba and Suni

[Squirt's Mom]

Mornin',

You had wondered what you might be buying Cody; here is what one of our other members "bought" their baby that I thought might encourage you today -


Pika also has regained alot of strength in her hind legs. She now stands up on just them to play and jump. She is able to jump back on the couch again, where she couldn't before.

Pika also has diabetes on top of confirmed Cushing's but with treatment for both conditions, she is doing so much better. The same could hold true for Cody.

Hope things are better for you both today!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[earthflower]

Cody seems to have rallied a little this morning. He was able to get out to the back yard on his own, which is all I need. I'm taking him to his own vet this morning to see what they think. Appears to me your thoughts and prayers are working for us - each word you have all given is a treasure - thank you for being out there.

[Squirt's Mom]

OK! A good report this morning from Cody! :)

Please let us know what your vet thinks; get details, ask questions til you understand what they are talking about, if they run any in-house testing, get copies of the actual results. We have a lab tech here who can help you understand what they mean.

I know you are scared and worried for many reasons, but you will not be alone today with the vet. You will have many folks standing at your elbow encouraging you and wanting the very best for both you and Cody.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[lulusmom]

I was just wondering....when you initially posted, you mentioned that Cody was diagnosed over two years ago. In a more recent post you mentioned that it would cost $650 for diagnostic tests. If Cody was properly diagnosed two years ago, why does your vet want to rerun diagnostic tests? Also in an earlier post I believe you mentioned that Cody weighs 35 pounds and in a later post, you stated that he was 45 pounds. Has he gained a lot of weight recently? If he is overweight, this is a huge contributing factor to his inability to get around.

Glynda

P.S. Don't hang your hat on one organization to offer financial help. Make sure you go down the list of entities provided by Leslie and contact all of them. Leave no stone unturned.

[earthflower]

At some point Cody did weigh 35 lbs. When I was at the vet last week with Lucy, they said he weighed 45 lbs. last visit. Yes, he is overweight. Cody has never been formally diagnosed - only tested for thyroid due to thinning coat and skin spots, excessive thirst and appetite. Blood panels were run to eliminate everything else, but I couldn't afford the actual determining test. In the meatime he went blind almost overnight so I decided not to prolong his life. The vet Saturday said if the tumor was on his adrenal he would be dead by now. So the question in my mind now is even if I had the money to now start treatment, he's probably been sick untreated for over 3 years, he's blind, 10 years old, can barely walk - in your opinion what do you think I would be buying him?

[sunimist]

IMO...FWIW :)


in your opinion what do you think I would be buying him?

For one thing, and IMO a huge thing, a better quality of life, but it is vital that Cody get a confirmed and correct diagnosis (whatever it is), then promptly initiate specific and correct treatment for the confirmed diagnosis. Certainly happier and more comfortable. Correct diagnosis is an absolute must here though for a successful outcome. Cody's illness may not be cushings at all and it could possibly be something that would be easy to treat.

[lulusmom]

If Cody's only problem is being blind and having a problem ambulating because of muscle wasting, you can buy him many more years....basically he can live out his normal life expectancy if you get him tested and get him on proper treatment. This is why we are all encouraging you to do whatever you can to save your boy's life because cushing's is not a death sentence. If your vet told you it was, then shame on him/her for choosing to remain ignorant of the most common endocrine disease there is.

It takes many years for cushing's to kill a dog and I've read that the average cushdog has had the disease for anywhere from 1 to 6 years before being diagnosed. I know that my first cushdog, Lulu, had the disease for at least a year before being diagnosed and I suspect my second cushdog, Jojo, had it for much much longer. He was in much worse shape than Cody and you should see him today. Where once he could barely walk, he's got a bounce in his step and where once his eyes and ears were bleeding from massive infections, he is now off of all optic and otic medications and where once he had little hair, he now has a massive coat that takes a lot of maintenance. Jojo was a shelter rescue and I sure wish he could tell me how long it took him to get to that current state.

I think somebody already provided you with a link to information as to what to expect over time if left untreated. Most dogs die from organ failure and/or severe bacterial infections because the immune system is basically wiped out from the excess steroids. Cody's internal organs don't seem to have been effected yet and you haven't mentioned any chronic infections so it is not too late to try to find the means to get Cody the care he needs. I am fairly certain that had your vet counseled you properly two years ago and worked with you to get the proper testing done and get Cody on treatment, he may have still gone blind, but his muscle tone would not have deteriorated to the point of rendering him immobile like he is now.

Sorry for the long answer but I want you to understand that being blind is not painful nor is the muscle wasting Cody has experienced. Further muscle wasting can be arrested and muscle tone restored in time with effective treatment.

Glynda

[littleone1]

Hi,

I'm glad to hear that Cody was a little better this morning.

I just want to mention that Corky has a tumor on his right adrenal gland. Corky was originally diagnosed with Cushings over a year ago. The clinical signs actually started to appear almost two years ago, but I had no idea then what was going on. He didn't start being treated for it until October, as the clinical signs were in remission for seven months. I'm not sure why your vet made the comment he did about an adrenal tumor. Corky's still with me and doing well. He will be thirteen in July.

Terri

[Squirt's Mom]

Your vet is just wrong about the adrenal tumor. One of our members has a pup who had an adrenal tumor removed over 3 yrs ago and is still perking along just grand! Adrenal tumors are the ONLY tumor associated with Cushing's that when removed can affect a total cure! Treatment for these tumors is also successful most of the time, just as it is with pituitary tumors.

But again, we are not sure what Cody's problem is just yet; it may not be Cushing's at all. First step, blood work up and exam, which I hope will be done at today's visit.

I do believe Cody has a chance at a much better quality of life than he has now...and you can give that to him. I know you love him and want the best for him so he will remain at your side for many more years to come. That is a very real possibility, honey, so just hang in there.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Carol]

I hope no one minds me joining in on this thread but it has given me much inspiration and encouragement for own dear little girl, Penny. (I finally managed to post Penny's picture). Hang in there Earthflower, Cody's mum.

Penny has not been officially diagnosed with Cushings disease but all her symptoms seem to point in that direction. We have a visit scheduled for tomorrow at my local vets, where Penny will be tested for Cushings.

After reading today's posting from Lulusmum regarding her own Lulu and Jojo and that she has read that the average cushdog had the disease anywhere from 1 to 6 years before being diagnosed gives me hope and encouragement that my Penny will be around for a very long time to come if she is diagnosed as having Cushings.

So I wish you all the best with your Cody Earthflower and that as Lulusmum mentioned perhaps its not too late to try and get some means to help your dear little Cody. Good luck to you and Cody. I'm sure he has a good chance of a good quality of life for years to come.

Thank you to all for being there, who give each of us advice and encouragement. I wish you and Cody all the very best. Also, all the best to everyone else and their babies.
Regards, Carol

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Earthflower,
I'm a little late in joining your thread but I have been following along. So a belated welcome from me too. :)

In the early years of my Roxee's diagnosis and long before I found this forum, I was afraid of the medication. At the time only Lysodren and Anipryl were offered. We did go with the Anipryl but Roxee was not lucky enough to be in that 10 to 15% that it worked for. :(

The effects of cushings was totally devastating to her. Her bloodwork was off the charts, she lost her sight, lost her muscle tone. This was a girl that loved to swim, do back flips while catching a toy that I would throw. Highly active little sweetie. She was my heart and soul. It killed me to watch her deteriorate. It was not a pretty sight and still haunts me every day.

Eventually I found this forum and read and read all the success stories. I gained confidence and was encouraged to start treatment. Roxee's abnormal bloodwork returned to normal ranges within 6 months. She regained her muscle strength, her beautiful coat returned and her pot belly was gone. Unfortunately she was laid to rest shortly after her 14th birthday due to neurological issues. :( I still beat myself up to this day over my ignorance of a life saving medication and my lack of confidence.

I strongly urge you to get a diagnosis and start treatment. It does sound like Cody has cushing's. I would ask my vet to do a UC/CR this is a low cost urine test that can rule out cushings. If the UC/CR doesn't rule out cushings, then ask the vet for an ACTH stim test or possibly a cortisol snap test. The LDDS and HDDS would be nice to know the type of cushings but with the ACTH stim, and UC/CR at least you will know and can start Trilostane treatment. It's really not the proper and recommended protocol for diagnosing cushings but with limited financial resources, you would be giving Cody the best shot available to having a much better quality of life. Believe me, you don't want to experience the devastating effects that cushings will have on you and Cody.

I hope you can find a way to get Cody diagnosed and treated. (icon for fingers and paws crossed)

[frijole]

Earthflower - chiming in to share my success... my dog was diagnosed at 12 1/2 and that was almost 4 yrs ago. My cush dog is 16 and 3 mos. She is frail from old age but cushings won't kill her. Lysodren and this forum saved her life! If I can do it, you can do it. Hang in there. Kim

[Casey's Mom]

Hello Earthflower, I have not posted to you before but I have been following along.

I wanted you to know the tests that my vet did to determine Casey's cushings were the same ones John (Roxee's Dad) mentioned. The first test to rule out cushings (it did not unfortunately) UC:CR which was about $35 then the ACTH test to determine the cushings - that test was about $115. Luckily that was enough testing for my girl. Her Lysodren costs me about $30 a month for a 40 lb dog.

Ask lots of question and the people here will be so happy to help in any way we can.

Love and hugs,

[Squirt's Mom]

Good Mornin',

I hope you and Cody are doing fine today! :)

How did the vet visit go yesterday? Did you learn anything helpful, anything you can work with? Is he ok after the visit? I hope it didn't stress him out too much.

Anxiously awaiting your next post...with luck it will give some indication as to Cody's problem and a direction for helping him.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi honey,

Ok, now you know my "secret"....I am a major worry-wart! :o

I really want to know about Cody. If you are uncomfortable with posting publicly then send me a PM. Click on my username (Squirt's Mom) at the upper right hand of this post and you will see an offer of "send a private message to Squirt's Mom". Click that and a box will open, already addressed to me, where you can start talking.

You and Cody only just came to us, but I have already become quite attached. I'm also a big ole softy. ;)

Hope to hear from you soon,
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always