Shelby 10yrs old recently diagnosed with cushings (Vetoryl)

[Shelby]

Hello,
just thought I would introduce our selves, my name is Robin and my little dog is Shelby a JRT who was recently diagnosed with cushings...we have not started treatment yet, i just spoke with the vet clinic today and the want to start her on "Vetoryl" trilostane.

I found the treatment to be very expensive, not that I wouldn't pay what it takes to help out my best friend...but wondering if anyone has found a good online pharmacy to order the drug from? I live in canada so need a canadian company.

Also we are seeing a homeopathic vet tomorrow, and I am feverishly trying to learn all I can about this disease before our appointment.. Does anyone have and experience with homeopathic remedies?

I don't really know if I was able to diagnose early enough, I do know that she she has had the disease for at least a year, we did blood tests a year ago and everything came back at normal levels, so i chalked it up to age...and the fact that she is a terrier and is hand stripped for grooming, I stripped her tail and made a bald spot so i just thought I got a little over zealous with her grooming, but it never grew back. A year ago she had a healthy appetite..as she always had.. but now it has turned into a CRAZY appetite where she will eat non-edible things. And of course drinks alot and pee's small lakes..has lost some muscle tone..

She used to be an athlete, racing in JRT races and flyball...the last flyball season she competed in was 2 years ago, I noticed she has no stamina and tired very quickly...

Her attitude has been a little off as well, she has always been a bit aggressive..but now she has attacked other dogs and my mother's cat and caused some serious injuries..mostly because they walked by when there was food around.. (she almost killed the cat) This is somewhat normal behaviour for her but seems to have increased in intensity as well as frequency.

[StarDeb55]

Robin, I would like to welcome both you & Shelby to our group! I must warn you that we will play "20 questions" with our new members, but that just helps us to give you the most appropriate feedback from the group's collective experience. You have given us a good start by telling us about all of Shelby's symptoms. All of Shelby's do point of finger at Cushing's. Could you tell us what diagnostic testing has been done? It would also be extremely helpful if you could post the actual test results including normal ranges & reporting units. Some of the Cushing's testing might include an ACTH, low dose dex, high dose dex, & an abdominal ultrasound. Most members keep a file on their pup's at home as you never know when those records might come in handy, especially if you end up at a strange vet. If you don't have copies, your vet should be happy to provide them. Have diabetes & thyroid been ruled out? I ask about these 2 problems as a lot their symptoms will overlap with Cushing's.
If Shelby has had recent general labwork such as a chemistry panel, we would like to see those results, also. Please post only the abnormal results.

Cushing's is a slowly progressing disease, literally taking years do its damage to a pup's internal organs. The good news is that it's highly treatable. I can't comment on trilostane as I have never used it. Barkley, my 1st Cushpup, was successfully treated for nearly 8 years with lysodren, crossing the bridge at 15 years old. MY 2nd boy, Harley, is doing well, 2 years after diagnosis. Harley recently reached the ripe old age of 15, too.

The best thing you can do for Shelby is to become a knowledgeable, educated owner, as you are her only voice & advocate. I hope you take a look at the forum's information & resource section where you will find a huge number of links that will lead you to just about anything you might need to know about Cushing's.

We are here to help in any way we can.

Debbie

[frijole]

Hi Robin! Welcome to you and Shelby. You are wise to learn as much about the disease as you can prior to giving trilo or any other meds. Cushings can be tricky to diagnose as the symptoms are the same as other diseases such as diabetes, hypothyroidism. Can I ask what tests were done to confirm the dx? Normally there are multiple tests.

Don't worry - most of us accidentally learned about cushings and many times it took years to figure out. There is usually no need to rush treatment. Better to be sure that is what it is and to understand the disease, treatment options than to rush into it.

I wish I could name a homeopathic success story for treating the disease but I can't. I can however say that alot of us use milkthistle for the liver, fishoil, SAME & Glucosamine Chon. for the heart & arthritis issues that might result once the cortisol levels are lowered.

Here is a link to our reference section. Tons of articles. Start with those that define cushings then work your way up to testing and trilostane to understand it. Ask questions along the way - you aren't alone. We doe have Canadian members who can help you with your question. Welcome! Kim:p

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10
I see Deb was posting at same time as I was. Forgive any redundancies!

[Nathalie]

Hello Robin,

I too wanted to welcome you. :)We live in Ontario but treat my Phillip’s cushings with Lysodren and purchase it at a local pharmacy. I do however order his Soloxine from the states.

Initially, my Phillip was under the care of a classical homeopath but when I found out that homeopathy cannot lower cortisol I choose to treat him conventionally and keep supporting his body with fresh food, supplements and Milk Thistle.
It is not unusual to see a difference in behavior, especially around food – an untreated cushings dog can literally feel they are starving and so will do anything to protect anything they perceive as food – they just can’t help it. The key is not to put them in a situation where they feel they have to protect their food.

The best advise I can give you is to learn as much as possible and to ask questions so you can be the best advocate possible for your dog.

Welcome again,
Nathalie

[labblab]

Robin,

Welcome to you and Shelby from me, too! One quick bit of "administrative" information to tell you -- please look in your emailbox or spam folder for a message from us. Until you respond to our request for email verification, your membership will not be formally approved. Until that happens, there will be a delay between the time that you try to post any replies and the time that they become publicly visible here on the forum (until your membership is processed completely, your posts must be approved by a staff member before they are publicly released).

Looking forward to hearing much more about your Shelby!
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Robin and welcome to you and Shelby! :)

Terriers are just full of attitude ain't they? I have 3 who are terrier mixes of various kinds and they all have that "I can take on anything" attitude! :p I just love terriers!

It is wonderful that you are taking the time to learn about Cushing's before starting treatment. Cushing's is a slow progressing condition so there is plenty of time to be sure of what you are dealing with.

As others have asked, if you could post the results of the latest CBC and all the cushing's specific testing Shelby has had done so far that will help us be able to give you more meaningful feedback.

As for homeopathic or any other holistic treatments, there are no double-blind studies supporting any of these approaches as effective in lowering the cortisol, which is the enemy in true Cushing's. However, there are anecdotal cases where these approaches seem to be helping the pup. Our problem is that none of our members here who chose an holistic approach has kept up with the testing to see IF the cortisol is actually being lowered or if the supplements, herbs, etc are simply making the pup feel better and look better. For some, the anecdotal evidence is all they need.

There are several things you can do to help Shelby via supplements, herbs, diet, ect. regardless of which treatment you use but we will need to see his test results to help you with that. Several pups here have a form of Cushing's called Atypical which is treated with melatonin and lignans - a nutriceutical approach, one of the holistic arenas. But cortisol is not involved in Atypical.

I am so glad you and Shelby found us and look forward to learning more about both of you in the time to come!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[marie adams]

Hi Robin and Shelby,

Welcome---I am new myself in the last 3 weeks or so. My Maddie is an 11 y/o Aussie who was just diagnosed about a month ago. I had to do research myself to finally figure out what she had and the vet still didn't think that is what she had till the test came back. Her symptoms were panting, thinning fur, ravenous appetite, drinking lots of water and peeing, weaknes in her hind legs, kind of a potbelly, and a few more.

I chose to treat with Lysodren after much debate and reading, reading, reading. I had already started her on her treatment before I found so much support from all of the members here---so ask as many questions as you have and they all have answers that make sense!!! :D:D In fact they have given me more support than the vet!!! :) I too thought about holistic, but knew she needed help now. I have changed her diet to raw (I buy it from my pet supply it is Northwest Naturals) and started the glucosamine/chondroitin. I will be starting the Milk Thistle soon.

Maddie is on her 2nd week of maintenance now and I am seeing signs she is getting better--little steps at a time.

Take care and best to you!!

[Shelby]

Hi thanks for the quick reply..to answer some of your questions, she had a full blood pannel with no abnormal results, so then we suspected cushings and did the low dose dex test and those results were suggestive of cushings.

I'm actually not sure if the full blood pannel tested for diabetes..good question, will be looking into that as well. But Thyroid has been ruled out.

I did have a copy of the test results but I gave them to the homeopathic vet today..will try to get another copy from the vet.

[Shelby]

Oh another thing, I really enjoyed the homeopathic vet. She was very thorough, caring, and made no promisses...but I have decided to try the homeopathic route on a 6-8 week trial..the remedies are quite a bit less expensive then the vetoryl, and Shelby is otherwise healthy and in good condition so we thought that we can afford to take our time to decide what is best for her and if this treatment doesn't work I can always go the traditional medicine route.

[frijole]

she had a full blood pannel with no abnormal results, so then we suspected cushings and did the low dose dex test and those results were suggestive of cushings.

I'm actually not sure if the full blood pannel tested for diabetes..good question, will be looking into that as well. But Thyroid has been ruled out.

I did have a copy of the test results but I gave them to the homeopathic vet today..will try to get another copy from the vet.

I am confused. If there were no abnormal results, why was a ldds test done? Dogs with cushings have elevated liver enzymes. I wish you had a copy still as it would help. Also, do you have a copy of the ldds results? (there will be 3 numbers) I would like to see them to validate the diagnosis... just to be safe. We see a lot of dogs that are misdiagnosed and it would be a shame to start your dog on any sort of treatment if it isn't necessary.

Also - there is a form of cushings called atypical cushings which can be treated with melatonin and flaxseeds.

There is usually no rush to treat cushings. It is much better to take your time and get the diagnosis right first. So if you can help us by sharing the results that would be helpful.

Was an acth test done to measure the cortisol? Sorry to ask all these questions but without it we are speculating. ;):D

Glad you found us!!! Kim

[StarDeb55]

Robin, I want to emphasize what Kim had already mentioned, the great majority of our cush babies show elevated liver enzymes on routine screening bloodwork, especially the alkaline phosphatase. The elevated alk phos is frequently what will point a vet in the direction of looking a Cushing's as a possibility. With no elevated liver enzymes, I'm really confused, also, as to why the vet felt that the low dose was warranted.

As I mentioned in my first post, I am now treating my second cushpup. Both boys presented with elevated alk phos results on screening labs, one boy even had an alk phos over 1000. In both instances, this results is what put us on the road toward a Cushing's diagnosis.

Debbie

[Shelby]

I am confused. If there were no abnormal results, why was a ldds test done? Dogs with cushings have elevated liver enzymes. I wish you had a copy still as it would help. Also, do you have a copy of the ldds results? (there will be 3 numbers) I would like to see them to validate the diagnosis... just to be safe. We see a lot of dogs that are misdiagnosed and it would be a shame to start your dog on any sort of treatment if it isn't necessary.

Also - there is a form of cushings called atypical cushings which can be treated with melatonin and flaxseeds.

There is usually no rush to treat cushings. It is much better to take your time and get the diagnosis right first. So if you can help us by sharing the results that would be helpful.

Was an acth test done to measure the cortisol? Sorry to ask all these questions but without it we are speculating. ;):D

Glad you found us!!! Kim

hmm..now i'm confused as well...I was told the first test they preformed was normal...maybe it was just the thyroid they were talking about. We went ahead with the ldds test because of her symptoms...

I now have the homeopathic vet looking at the test results as well..I was very impressed with her today even tho she didn't say what I wanted her to say LOL that is "I can fix your dog"

No I don't think she had a acth test. At least I never heard..

[frijole]

Well, if it makes you feel any better...most people come here confused. :D At this point - if you can get copies of all the tests done and share the results we'll help you weed thru the results and figure it all out. I just don' t want you to waste money, time and more important give any form of meds/treatment if they aren't needed.

When you get the results, include those done for the thyroid as well... alot of vets do a basic test that has a very high error rate. Found this out the hard way. :rolleyes: So you aren't alone!!

I am glad you found us. You are wise to research and read up - it is overwhelming at first (I still remember my first week... ugh) but it pays off as you can understand what is being said AND most important you can ask questions about what is being recommended. This is important as you are Shelby's voice. Hang in there - we will be here for you. Kim

[Shelby]

Hey all just coming back to say that we have now started treatment on Vetoryl, after a go with homeopathic treatment..she has been on it for 2 weeks now and I have seen little change in her activities, she was active before and still is active but she has become kinda needy, won't leave my lap, stares at me and pants..where as before she would actually nap. Im a little worried but would be more worried if she was presenting with lethargy or decreased appitite.

Her symptoms seemed to be controlled with the homeopathic treatments but alas she was not growing any fur back and was actually getting balder so we have decided to try the mainstream treatment.

With winter coming I am very anxious for her fur to grow back or someone will have to knit her a tail cozie! Can anyone tell me when I can expect to see some regrowth?

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Robin,

In an earlier post you said that Shelby had not had an ACTH. Did her vet do further testing before starting her on the Trilo (Vetoryl)? If so, could you post the actual results along with the units of measurement (ug/dl, mnol/l, ect) and the normal ranges for that lab? That info will help us give you more meaningful feedback.

The coat is one of the last things to improve usually. In fact, it is not uncommon for a pup to blow their old coat and regrow an new one once the cortisol is controlled. With winter coming on, a tail cozy might be a good idea. ;) It really can take several months to see improvement in the coat - IF there is going to be one. One of our admins has a pup who still hasn't regrown her coat after several years. So be patient with this aspect and be happy that the internal processes are going to return to normal.

Keep in touch and do let us know about Shelby's testing.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls :D - always

[Shelby]

Does anyone have any experience with conditioning a cushing dog for dog sports (racing)

Shelby is very healthy and will be competing in a month, Im a bit worried about her stamina. She is coming out of retirement for one last time, after a 3 year break (she stopped when she was first diagnosed)

We have started to up her exercise..

Moderator's Note: I have merged your update on Shelby into Shelby's original thread. We normally like to keep all posts on a pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for other members to refer back to the pup's history, if needed

[Harley PoMMom]

Since dogs with Cushing's Disease are more prone to CCL (Cranial Cruciate Ligament) injuries, it is my opinion that sporting events such as racing should not be partaken. Please know this is just my opinion and I hope the others will share theirs as well.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[StarDeb55]

I agree with Lori. My first Cushpup blew a CCL simply chasing a toy I was throwing through the house for him. The abnormal liver function tests on his pre-op labs for the ligament repair is what led to his Cushing's diagnosis. There are several other members in this group who have had pups suffer from a CCL rupture.

Debbie