Pomerian just diagnosed w/ cushing's

[Baileyboy]

Hi,

My 10YR old boy Pomeranian named Bailey was just Diagnosed yesterday with Cushing's Disease. He weights 24lbs. He is a larger sized Pom.

He went thourgh an 8 hour long blood test last week and we were told he had an overactive adrenal gland. I only have the basic info from speaking with my Vet over the phoen I meet with her for a one on one consulation tomorrow to discuss treatment options.

I believe he started with this 2 yrs ago but was misdiagnosed until recently. For two years he had been drinking a lot and urinating frequently. They thought it was an UTI put him on antibiotics and it got better. He has always been lethargic. About 6 months ago his hair started to grow back different, thiner. The vet thought maybe he wasn't getting enough fish oil so we switch his dog food and she said lets see how he does. The urinating and drinking all of the time were the sames as they have been for 2 years so we didn't mention anymore about that because all of his other tests come back fine and he goes every 6 mths for vet check-up. They were not finding anything wrong. Until we took him back again for the hair loss and he looked thiner along his back but his belly was bigger. That is when she mentioned Cushing's Disease and he had the test and now here we are.

The Vet mentioned about him having to get an Ultrasound to see if he has a tumor on his adrenal gland and if he does that it would need to be removed or the pills would not be affective.

She also mentiond that his liver enzymes whent from 150 6 mths ago to 880 now. She said which is common with Cushing's but she is concerned how much it increased in such a short period of time.

I have been doing on-line research to find out has much as I can to be prepared to meet with her tomorrow and to ask as many questions as possible. Finding alot of infomation that does not make me warm and fuzzy about the meds.

I am scared for Bailey. Can anyone give us any information that will help us in the right direction to what to do or not to do? or What to look for or beaware of?

Also are there any natural alternitives that help?

I will do anything for him no matter what it costs but I want to make sure that I am making the best decision for him and that he stays comfortable through this whole process. I hope has some long healthy years to come.

Sorry the post was so long so much to say.

I appreciate any advice.

Thank you
Bailey's Mom

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Bailey's Mom,

Welcome from me and my boy Harley. My boy Harley is a 13 y/o Pomeranian who has PDH cushings plus elevations in all of his intermediate/sex hormones.

The one thing with Poms is that they are part of the Nordic breed, and thus are prone to a type of cushings known as Atypical cushings which many vets/IMS are not aware of. There is only one lab in the Country that can test for this type of cushings and it is located in Tennessee and run by a wonderful and excellent man, Dr. Oliver DVM, Ph.D. Hopefully you can get Bailey tested for Atypical cushings.

My boy is being treated with Lysodren because Trilostane raises some of the intermediate/sex hormones which may do harm. Both of these drugs are life-saving medicines for our cush-pups when both vet/IMS and owner follow proper protocols.

Proper protocol entails a proper diagnose of cushings and following the treatment plan of giving the meds, monitoring ACTH testing, etc. It can sometimes be a confusing and frustrating disease to tackle but it can be done.

Lysodren will work on adrenal tumors, I don't why your vet told you that. The one important thing with my boy's health is the relationship I have with his vet, we are a TEAM. Harley's vet really listens to what I have to say because if she wouldn't, well, she wouldn't be his vet. Another thing get copies of any tests Bailey has or will get done and keep them in safe place.

Was Bailey thyroid checked? Was diabetes ruled out? Some non-adrenal illnesses mimic the same symptoms of cushings - hypothyroidism and diabetes are two of them and should be ruled out because these two non-adrenal illnesses can create false positives on Cushings tests.

Please know we are here for you and Bailey, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask, ok.

Here is a link about Atypical Cushings:
Congenital adrenal hyperplasia-like syndrome/ Hyperestrinism/ "atypical Cushing's"
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198

Love and hugs,
Lori

[mytil]

Hi Bailey's mom,

Welcome to our site, am glad you found us.

Firstly when you get the chance get a copy of the tests (especially the 8 hour test of which is most probably a low dose dexamethasone suppression test) and post the values here in your thread. That way we can see the values and comment more on them.

It is only natural to be scared when there is a possibility of such an unknown, and often misunderstood, condition. What other conditions has Bailey been tested for - thyroid for example.

Take a moment to read through these links - very helpful in understanding what you may be up against http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180.

Your vet mentioning an ultrasound - yes, this is one of diagnostic tools used. But, the comment about the pills will not work unless the adrenal tumor is removed is not all together correct. In the cases where the cushings is adrenal dependent (adrenal tumor), instead of pituitary based (pituitary tumor), the adrenal gland can be removed in essence curing the cushings. How many cushpups has your vet treated successfully?

A lot here seek a second opinion with an internal medicine specialist who work in concert with the GP vet and this is something you may want to consider. You may need a referral from your GP vet.

But having said all this, let us take a look at all the testing results.

Keep us posted
Terry

[Baileyboy]

Thank you Lori and Terry for your quick response.

I may have misunderstood the vet about the meds not working if there was a tumor on the adrenal gland. I was getting so much information over the phone and trying to write everything down that I was on over load and my not have heard right. I will find more out tomorrow when I meet with her face to face. I don't know how much experience she has I am going to find out tomorrow also. If she doesn't have a lot then I will need to find another Vet I want someone with a lot of experience.

The information you both provided will be a great source for our meeting tomorrow.

Bailey had a full blood panel done and nothing else showed up has far as being diabetic or having thyroid problems.

Bailey did have the low dose dexamethasone suppression test done. I will ask the Vet for a copy of the results tomorrow.

I will keep you posted


Thank you,

Dina (Bailey's Mom)

[Coolidge]

Hi!

I just want to chime in a few things from my experiences with Coolidge. The first is unless you are 100 percent confident in your vet, always, always get a second (and perhaps 3rd) opinion in anything that relies on lysodren, trilostane, and surgery to correct.

Coolidge was Dx'd with Cushings, that diagnosis was changed to atypical cushings, which also mimics all of the symptoms of adrenal or pituatary cushings. If you can do so before you jump into treatment, have the full panel of tests done at the University of Tennessee. Dr. oliver is very helpful. This will give you a definitive cushings, atypical cushings, or no cushings at all diagnosis.

Stay strong, if you have one in your area, see a specialist. An internal Med vet would be idea.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Dina,

Many vets/IMS are not aware of Atypical cushings so do not be alarmed if your vet does not know about this type of Cushings.

Harley's vet didn't know about Atypical cushings but she was willingly to learn what she needed to know to treat my boy successfully. She has been conferring with Dr. Oliver about Harley's medical issues. This is what I want from my vet...an open mind, someone to listen to what I have to say. Some vets think Atypical cushings need not to be diagnosed, but with Poms and especially if they are going to be treated with Trilostane, they should be tested for elevations in their intermediate/sex hormones.

By the way, my boy weighs 22.6 lbs, he's a bigger Pom too! :p;):D

Love and hugs,
Lori

[frijole]

Greetings from me too! Your little critter will be just fine. Mine has been on lysodren for almost 4 yrs now! She is 16 1/4!!!!! The key is to read up as you are your dog's voice in this... and not all vets are experienced... plus it is just good to be on top of it.

Did they do an acth test? If not you will want one done before going on trilo or lysodren as it is a benchmark for progress.

Please check out our reference section as it has lots of helpful links for newbies to cushings. Read, ask questions and keep us posted!!! Kim

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Dina,

You had asked about natural remedies: Below is a post from one of administrator that I believe you will find informative.

Love and hugs,
Lori


Hi,

Also are there any natural alternitives that help?

I appreciate any advice.

Thank you
Bailey's Mom



There are more than a few of the so called natural remedies online. I've written to all of them and asked point blank if studies or clinical trials had been done to prove their product's efficacy in lowering cortisol. Native Remedies responded by totally ignoring my very direct question and plying me with the same bull that is on their website. I specifically said that my dogs were being treated with Lysodren; however, I would seriously consider treating them with a natural remedy if documented proof of efficacy was available. The thing I found interesting was twice they mentioned using their product in conjunction with conventional treatment prescribed by my vet. Obviously, it doesn't work all that well if you can't forego conventional treatment. What a crock! I wrote back and said; "SHAME ON YOU!"
Glynda

[jrepac]

You may want to seek out a homeopathic vet for an assessment. There are a number of alternative treatments out there, but performance is mixed from what I have heard and read. However, some of these could be helpful in addition to some of the more traditional methods. Every case is different, obviously, and some of this winds up being trial and error. I have read about cushings dogs responding well to accupuncture, if you can believe it!

Some of these "herbal" remedies, if you read up on them, may address certain symptoms of cushings (let's say hunger for instance, or skin and coat). But they often do very little to get at the main problem which is the cortisol level or in the case of atypical, the other elevated hormones. And the "miracle cures" out there, even if they could/would help, are very overpriced! [once I looked at the ingredients and did a bit of shopping, I realized a $35 bottle of Cushex drops had maybe $10 worth of ingredients]. And you have to realize that some of the science is lacking...so you really need to scrutinize these various treatments carefully. I'm not saying they are all 100% bunk, you just need to carefully research each and every ingredient and take the various "testimonials" as pretty much limited, anecdotal evidence.

But, taking a real example, many of us are using Rx treatments in conjunction w/melatonin and/or lignans (flaxseed hulls). Those 2 supplements certainly could be considered "natural" approaches that have some scientific support behind them.

Other useful supplements for cushings related symptoms are Sam-e and Milk Thistle, which help the liver deal w/the cortisol levels.

I also swear by cranberry extract tabs to keep urinary tract infections at bay.

I could continue on, but I think you get the idea...

Jeff