kip, 10yr black lab border collie cross

[We Love Kipper]

Hello, Kip and I are new to this forum but unfortunatly, not new to cushings. I started noticing signs that something was wrong back in the fall of '07; pot-bellied, excessive drinking and needing to go out more often. That went on for a few months, then the dog that never went into the kitchen started to beg. I have never had the proper tests done to confirm cushings but he as all the signs, hair loss, peeing, drinking, muscle tone loss done the back and hind end, etc. This past thanksgiving he peed in the house for the first time. There was a fairly good sized blood clot in it. the next morning we were at the vets office. She ran the urine test and saw so many rods in it that she had to call another vet over to look. he had been on baytral (sp) from thanksgiving till the beginning of Feb trying to clear up the bladder infection. His skin got all scabby from the bladder infection and he also developed a weird thing on his tongue as well. after many urine samples the infection as finally left. I did a culture and sensativity test 2 weeks ago and the test came back positive for E.coli. He as now been on Amoxaciline for the past 2 weeks and I want to do another C&S. when I had the culture test done I also had an x-ray done to see what was going on; it showed a liver twice the size of a proper liver. The vet was worried he had stones in his bladder, there were none. We did an ultra sound and that did show that the inner walls of his bladder are enlarged, on the end where the "exit" is.

I have never done the proper cushings test because I cannot afford it. I am a full time college student, who lives on her own and has been eatting ramen noodles to maintain her dogs well being. I love my dog and I only want whats best for him. I live on the second story apt. I help him bring up the back end when we go up the stairs and he does the front end, he has been starting to lose mobility in the front end too, and all he does is lay in bed. Is this normal for a 10 yr old cushings dog.

although I have never had the proper test done the vet is 99% positive that he has cushings. My choices now are triostine or lysodren. I am worried that I just cant afford the meds. Is there anyway around all the follow up blood work that is needed for these drugs? I was in contact with a vet friend that deals in Chinese herbs, he startes those on monday.

any info you can give would be great.

[StarDeb55]

I am so sorry that Kip has been having all of these issues. I can truly empathize the financial hardship that this has placed on you being a college student. I am now taking care of my 2nd cushpup, so I truly understand about finances. Cushing's is an expensive & very difficult disease to get a correct diagnose on, but once you get that diagnose & your pup stabilized on meds the costs do decline dramatically.

From the symptoms you have described, it sounds like Cushing's is a distinct possibility. Diabetes & thyroid have to be ruled out because a lot of their symptoms overlap with Cushing's. I would like to make a suggestion as a starting point for testing. There is a screening test that is relatively inexpensive called a urine cortisol/creatinine ratio. It is not stressful on the dog as the samples can be collected at home, but it is best to collect a 3 day pooled urine sample to get the most accurate reading. A UCCR is what is termed a rule out test, meaning if it's negative, you absolutely aren't dealing with Cushing's, & you're done. Positive simply means that Cushing's is a possibility, further testing required. Since Kip has been so sick with the on-going urinary tract problems, you will need to wait until he is feeling better, & off of all medications to do this test. Non-adrenal illness will raise the cortisol levels & will very likely cause a false positive result.

Now, I will have to be the spoiler here. Both medications, trilostane & lysodren, are very serious medications that require close monitoring in the initial stages of treatment. Without that monitoring by ACTH tests, a pup is at high risk of being overmedicated, slipping into what's termed an Addisonian crisis which can cause a pup to become very ill, very fast. If an Addisonian crisis is severe enough, the possibility does exist that it could be fatal. I would really doubt that you would find any vet who would be willing to start you pup on either medication without adequate diagnostic testing or monitoring. It's very critical you pin down a diagnosis, as giving a healthy, non-cush pup, either of the above 2 medications can cause serious consequences to the point of even being fatal. There is a 3rd medication, selegine or anipryl, that may help in a limited number of cushpups. The location of the pituitary lesion has to be in a specific location for this drug to be effective. Anipryl does not require all of the follow-up testing like trilostane or lysodren, & IMO, a vet may be more willing to put Kip on a trial of Anipryl, in light of your financial constraints.

I would hope you take a look at the important information section of the forum as we do have some links that will lead you to financial resources to help you with the treatment for your pup. The following link will get you to that info.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

Please keep us posted as we are here to help in any way we can.

Debbie

[Harley PoMMom]

Hello and welcome to you and Kip from me and my boy Harley. I am so sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but I am glad you found this forum with these amazing and knowledgeable people.

Although you did say you have never done the proper cushings test, the one diagnostic test I am really interested in that you did have done is that ultrasound. Did the ultrasound show the adrenals? Most of the time a cushings diagnosis can be confirmed with an ACTH test and an ultrasound.

In the beginning of this dratted disease, when one is trying to confirm a diagnosis of cushings and the beginning of treatment for their pup is when the cost is high. When ones pup is stabilized on their treatment, whether it be Trilostane or Lysodren, cost go down considerably. Both Trilostane and Lysodren need to be monitered with an ACTH tests, and really, these are the only 2 drugs that help our cush pups.

I really understand about the financial hardship of this disease, my boy has pancreatitis + high blood pressure along with his PDH cushings. I use CareCredit for him when we go to the vets. I also have his Lysodren compounded which keeps the costs down.

I was also wondering if you could tell us more about Kip, like, how much does he weigh? Is he on any herbs or supplements? Did Kip have a CBC/Chemistry Profile done and if one was done, could you post anything here that is marked abnormal with the reference ranges and units of measurements. I'm not asking you these questions about Kip to be nosy, it is because the more we know about your beatiful boy the better our feedback will be, ok. :)

Please know that you are not alone on this journey, we are here to help in any way we can, so ask all the questions you want and we will try to answer them as best we can. ;):)

For now, I have pasted some links for you that I think you will find interesting.

Links to Cushings Websites (especially helpful for new members!)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180

Financial Resources to help with Vet bills (CareCredit included in here)
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

Medical complications associated with untreated Cushings Disease
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195

Love and hugs,
Lori

[We Love Kipper]

Thanks for the reply, I meant to put in his weight. He is 43.3 lbs as of last week, he should be at a healthy 50lbs. Apart from the Amoxiline for the E.Coli he is not on anything I do not get the chinese herbs till monday.

I did a wellness panel around christmas time and his liver was off the chart, I am talking in the 400's. I recently moved an hour away from his vet and I do not have his records in front of me. I am going to ask for a copy to be emailed this week.

Thank you so much for your time, and I forgot to say my name in the first post,..

I am Kip's mom
~ O

[frijole]

Welcome from me as well. Pls do get the records so we have a better feel. Also ask about the findings from that sonogram.

Here is a link to financial resources that you might want to look into. I am glad you found us! Hugs to Kip!!! Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Kip's mom,

Another important suggestion, any tests you have done on Kip get copies made for yourself and keep them in a safe place all together. One never knows when the time comes and we have to utilize the service of the Emergency Clinic, and those copies of tests come in very handy.

Harley's ALP (one of his liver enzymes) has reached 1289, since I've been giving him Denamarin and Marin (given 12 hours apart), his numbers have come down to 761. Harley has an enlarged liver also, which is common in our cush pups. The excess cortisol in the pups body stimulates the liver to work harder and thus the liver enlargens. Excess cortisol also has the same effect on the kidneys, it makes the kidneys work more, so the pup urinates more and thus the pup HAS to drink more to keep up with the increased urination. The one thing a person cannot do is with-hold or restrict water from a cushingnoid pup, this could be fatal to a cush pup.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask, there is usually someone on here all the time. :D

Love and hugs,
Lori