Chihuahua, Ebonie 10 y.o. Lysodren (Ebonie has passed)

[bernie47]

hi everyone i am new to this forum..been reading all about your pets.. so glad to here i am not the only one that treats my chihuahua / ebonie.. like part of the family.. eight days ago ebonie was diagnosed with cushings and was started on lysodren.. seem to be going ok.. vet has told me to only give her med once a week now.. was all a bit over whelming at first as she is 10yrs old and this is first problem i have had with her..brought her from breeder..at 4 months old ..is a very intelligent little dog...as i am on disability pension expenses are killing my budget..but hanging in their she is worth it !

[frijole]

Hi from me! My schnauzer was almost 13 when diagnosed. I give her lysodren and she is over 16 now! So it really does help. Did the vet give you prednisone to have on hand? How is Ebonie doing now? Are the cushings symptoms still there or better? Tell us as much as you can and know that you aren't alone. We have been there. It can be expensive during the beginning due to the testing but it does get less expensive once the cushings is under control. Glad you found us. Kim

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome from me and my boy Harley! My boy Harley is a 13 y/o Pomeranian who has PDH cushings and is being treated with Lysodren also.

Since Cushings can be difficult to diagnose I was wondering what test/s your vet did to confirm Ebonie's diagnosis. There are some other illnesses that have common symptoms to our Cushingnoid pups and sometimes pups have been misdiagnosed. I was also wondering if you would tell us more about your precious Ebonie. And I hope you don't mind all the questions about her, but the more we know about your beautiful girl the better the feedback we will be able to give you, ok. So here goes some questions :eek::)

How much does Ebonie weigh? What symptoms led you or your vet to test for Cushings in the first place? What dosage of Lysodren is she on? Did Ebonie go thru a "loading phase" of Lysodren and now she is on a "maintenance dose?" Is she on any herbs or supplements?
Ok, that's enough questions from me :D but there may be more from the others. :eek::p:D

Hang in there and remember you are not alone on this journey, we are here to help in anyway we can, so please ask all the questions you want and we will answer them as best as we can.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[bernie47]

hi lori..and kim..my vet advised me that ebonie blood work was leaning towards cushings..but we had no symptoms...8 months later, she began to drink a lot and wet patches in her bed . as she is a clean little dog still took herself out side..when awake ..vet checked her for diabetes and test were all good .proceeded with lab idexx general health profile..and followed by 1dexason 2mg/ml injection ...1lab cortisol x 3..
we then started on one eighth of a 500mg tab twice a day ..loading ... and now one quarter of lysodren once a week.. we are on 48 hr break from loading and start one quarter Monday...ebonie bit off today .. but otherwise ok .. yes we were given pred- x 5mg tablets .. but told not to use them till i am told to .vet would like to do acth stimulation test but my finances are low .. so we going along with cutting down at moment .will keep you informed thanks for caring.. Catherine:)

[AlisonandMia]

Hi Catherine,

You say that Ebonie is a little off today? In what sort of way? It sounds like her cortisol is very likely a bit too low. How long ago was it she had her last dose of Lysodren? Lysodren goes on working to lower cortisol for approximately 48 hours after a dose is given and the cortisol can be expected to keep dropping during that period.

I understand completely your financial concerns (I would hate to be having to treat a Cushing's dog at the moment in our situation) however I do think that doing a stim after loading and before starting maintenance is pretty important - it is probably the most important stim test of all. If you start maintenance when the cortisol is too low this can be disastrous as it can take the cortisol even lower. So if you can possibly afford to get this test done I'd really encourage you to do so. If she still seems off tomorrow, in any way, please contact your vet before giving any more Lysodren.

How much does Ebony weigh and how long was she taking the Lysodren twice a day?

Alison

[bernie47]

hi Alison..has been on lysodren for 9 days .. had 48 hr break and starts her quarter in morning ..she has been eating as normal.. less drinking ..and keeping in touch with vet..daily basis ..they are very caring people..and i can ring them any time ..if worried.. ebonie is a smooth coat ..chihuahua..long in body ..but very stocky.we have her on advance weight management..dry food ..weighs 4 kg vets advice all the way and they weigh her each time we visit..cheers for now.. catherine

[Nathalie]

Hi Catherine and Welcome,:)
I too understand the financial burden treating a dog with cushings BUT as Alison stated in her post not monitoring cortisol levels, especially after loading and before beginning maintenance could be disastrous. You and your vet don’t know if the cortisol is in the desired 1-5 range nor will you know if the maintenance dose you are currently giving is adequate (does not allow the cortisl to increase nor further decreases production) or not. I don’t want to scare you but if the cortisol drops to low and Ebonie goes into crisis you could be faced with a high emergency vet bill. On the other hand if the cushings is not well controlled you may see an improvement in symptoms but silent damage can be done to the organs.
Honestly, I am surprised that a vet is even willing to continue treating with Lysodren without doing a stim test after loading.
If she/he is not willing to give you a deal or let you make payments you may want to ask them about only doing a post stim blood reading and skipping the pre blood draw to cut down the cost of the test.
Nathalie

[frijole]

Catherine, I agree that having an acth test done is the only real way to know where Ebonie's cortisol levels are.

I am going to link you to a write up that gives instructions for those using lysodren for the first time... Glad that you have prednisone on hand. I agree that it is best to call the vet if you think you need it but sometimes emergencies happen in the middle of the night or on weekends... and giving the drug is really important. If Ebonie were to go too low prednisone mimics cortisol to give her the relief needed. You probably were instructed to give 1/2 or even 1/4 pill. Please confirm and thanks!!

Just trying to cover all bases since a test was not done...I want to make sure you are armed and ready. ;) Kim

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Catherine and welcome to you and Ebonie! :)

geez....do I understand financial stresses! I, too, am on disability and this economy has just about put an end to Jim's work this past year so we are really strapped at the moment. We all do the best we can with what we can at any given time. I really do understand!

There are some possibilities for help out there, tho. CareCredit is one. You can set up an interest-free account for a limited time or pay interest for a longer time. Many vets will accept this and it can really help out in tough times. Here are some more ideas that might help out:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

Please keep in touch and let us know how your baby is doing!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bernie47]

thank you squirts mum..i am new to computers also ..so please bare with me .. uploaded some pictures of my two girls.. ebonie and natcho..
ebonie is doing just fine been back to vet and they assured me all going well ..she is doing all her normal things ..
six months ago natcho had a lump removed from back right leg.. when she came home was limping on opposite leg.. took her back ..and vet said cruciate ligament had gone.. so back to surgery we went !..after that we changed vets... so this is why struggling with finances and ebonies new problem.. but i am getting on top of it the best way i know how .. thank you for your support..and information ..Catherine..[ west Australia ] ]

[bernie47]

hi all i haven't dropped off the planet ..just been taking one day at a time .. ebonie is doing fine.. i read your comments each day and find your comments informative.
we are in the middle of a heat wave in west / aust..and wow ! its been hot.....will keep in touch Catherine..:cool

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Catherine, and welcome to you and Ebonie

Here's a thought about the financial side of things... I don't know if we have carecredit in Australia, but we do have something similar, but I don't know what it's called :o. It's by GE creditline, and it works the same as those buy now/ pay later deals in stores.

Pretty much, it's a line of credit, and you make monthlly payments over the next year or two.

The GE phone number is 1300 131 024 and website for GE is http://www.gecreditline.com.au and they will be able to give you way more info than I can ;)

Hope that helps,

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[bernie47]

hi everyone my vet tells me ebonie has had a mild stroke.
walks with her head tilted slightly to side and left eye little strange.. they tell me we can do nothing to help her ....
she is eating..not drinking as much.. and not urinating in her sleep ..seems to be getting back to her old self.. vet tells me strokes are common with the age of my girl..
has any one had to deal with this problem yet ? have done my research on canine strokes and are aware of the seriousness of them... she still likes her little walks in park with my natcho girl.. [ dog ]..vet is very kind and keeps in touch with me ..keep up good work every one ..cath:eek:

[bernie47]

hi everyone my vet tells me ebonie has had a mild stroke.
walks with her head tilted slightly to side and left eye little strange.. they tell me we can do nothing to help her ....
she is eating..not drinking as much.. and not urinating in her sleep ..seems to be getting back to her old self.. vet tells me strokes are common with the age of my girl..
has any one had to deal with this problem yet ? have done my research on canine strokes and are aware of the seriousness of them... she still likes her little walks in park with my natcho girl.. [ dog ]..vet is very kind and keeps in touch with me ..keep up good work every one ..cath:eek:

"there is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes its so "

[lulusmom]

Hi Catherine,

Contrary to what your vet has told you, everything I've read on the subject says that strokes are very rare in dogs. Canine Vestibular Syndrome is much more common in elder dogs and Ebonie's symptoms, especially the head tilt, makes me think that this is a much more likely possibility. We've seen this in more than a few of our members' dogs and in most cases, the dog recovers completely. Here's some info on CVS:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_vestibular_disease.html

Glynda

[bernie47]

hi Glynda..yes i have heard about canine vestibular syndrome.. watched a video also ..guess we will know in time... other wise all going well .. thank you for information..cheers Catherine;)..

[jrepac]

this may sound obvious, but did the vet check for an ear infection? My Mandy was walking around w/her head cocked sideways at one point....the vet talked about the vestibular syndrome....needless to say, it was not that, but an ear infection. With treatment it went away.

Jeff

[bernie47]

hi every one has been 6 days since ebonies mild stroke..
she is going well just hangs head to left slightly and one eye a little crossed .. but doing well on lyso just plays with toys and we go slow walks to park.. she loves going to vet
never had a pet that likes vets ..will keep all updated..Catherine

[bernie47]

hi Jeff.. yep checked her ears.. both ok..
i even removed her collar for a day encase wear they shaved her was irritating her ..but not that either !:) we have 3 vets on duty ... and they all have seen her from time to time.. catherine

[bernie47]

just to let all know ebonie is doing well ..and is back to all her usual tricks.. no wet patches ..no drinking 24/7..
and eating normally..i do feel uncomfortable discussing her tests ..but can assure you we are doing every thing we can.. for her.her mild stroke has not had any complications with it ..read all your posts when i can keep up good work ...god bless you all for now..cath & ebonie

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Cathy,

It is good to hear that Ebonie is feeling more like her old self these days and up to her usual tricks. :) Tricks are a good sign! ;)

Posting her tests results makes it easier for us to help you both with valid, experienced input but if you are not comfortable doing that, you certainly don't have to. However, you DO have to keep us updated often on how she is doing. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bernie47]

can any one tell me what flax seed oil is used for..?
ebonie has very dry skin...but not itchy .. has lost fur all over ..and doing well on lysodren..no patches as yet..
no other side effects..:) cheers Catherine..

[StarDeb55]

Bernie, I have moved your post concerning what flax seed oil to Ebonie's original thread, since it appears that you are asking in reference to using FSO with Ebonie. We like to keep all posts on a pup to a single thread as it makes it easier for other members to reference back to the pup's history.

Now, flaxseed oil is used, along with melatonin, as part of the treatment for Atypical Cushing's. Atypical is when one or more of the associated hormones produced by the adrenal glands is elevated. FSO is not really used to manage any skin problems. What you are probably seeing with Ebonie is similar to a pup "blowing their coat". A number of members using lysodren have reported this with their pups. It is probably a case of the unhealthy hair is lost as the cortisol is brought down to a more healthy range. Many members have reported that the coat will regrow into almost a puppy-like coat, sometimes in a different color.

Debbie

[jrepac]

Flax seed, flax seed oil is also good for skin and coat...the lignans component of flax seed is what helps in treating Atypical Cushings; it blocks a few of the hormones that are being overproduced.

[bernie47]

thank you stardeb55... yes ebonie is showing brown hair coming through.. she is doing well only lost 200 gram since starting lysodren..does it take long for fur to grow back after shaving.. ebonies seems to be very slow.. ?
still trying to find way around this sight ..sorry about replying in wrong section..cheers cath...:o

[bernie47]

high every one.. here are ebonies test results at long last not sure i under stand them.. just take my vets word for it.hope i copy them right :confused
total t4 nmol/l 17-37 cortisol[ 1 ] nmol/l 140.....nmol/l
tsh ng/ml 0-0 cortisol[ 2 ] nmol/ 598 ng/ml
cortisol[ 3] nmo/l 629..insulin mu/l
comments/pathologist...the complete lack of suppression in response to dexamethasone is consistent with hyperadrenocorticism . although more typical of adrenal-dependent disease,this result does not rule out pituitary-dependent disease....endocrinology report:
April 30th acth/test..
total t4 nmol/l 17-37 cortisol[1] nmol/ 87.5
tsh ng/ml 0-0 cortisol [2]nmol/l 289
comments/patholigist evidence of moderate stimulation of cortisol levels following ACTH administration. ? history. normal dogs are reported to stimulate to level of between 160- and 500 nmol/1 following ACTH. dogs with confirmed hyperadrenocorticism are reported to have post- stimulation levels of > 600 nmol/ levels of between 500 and 600 nmol/ 1 are consider borderline and are difficult to interpret....final/endocrinology report :
hope you can all understand these reports...ebonie was on one 1/4 of lysodren and now has been upped another 1/8 seems to be coping very well ..not loosing as much hair now.. and showing no symptoms of panting.. peeing.. or eating 24/7...cheers ! for now ..Catherine:)

[labblab]

Hi Catherine,

I only have a quick minute to post -- I have to run out on an errand. But I wanted to "bump up" your thread so that others may have the chance to look over Ebonie's lab results and offer any thoughts...:)

Marianne

[Nathalie]

Hello Catherine,

For some reason it seems like that the different test and test results got a bit mixed up when you posted.

If you don’t mind could you please try posting again, listing one test at a time, following the test result and the range.

I am sure there are others who would like to give you feedback but right now it all seems a bit mixed-up.

Thanks,
Nathalie

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Catherine,

I see from your post it seems that you have a LDDS test and a ACTH test. With the LDDS test there should be 3 labeled draws on the report, a baseline or resting draw, a 4 hour draw, and a 8 hour draw...so confusing, huh?! I just want to make sure that we interpret Ebonie's test correct. So is the cortisol[ 1 ] nmol/l 140 the baseline? Cortisol[ 2 ] nmol/ 598 the 4 hour draw? And cortisol[ 3] nmo/l 629 the 8 hour draw?

If this is correct, then what I am going to do is convert your numbers to ug/dl for our members because we are so used to seeing them in these units, ok.

Cortisol [1] 5.07 ug/dl
Cortisol [2] 21.67 ug/dl
Cortisol [3] 22.79 ug/dl

I'm no expert with LDDS test, so I will let the others comment about that, so sorry.

Now for the ACTH stim test: cortisol[1] nmol/ 87.5; cortisol [2]nmol/l 289. These convert to 3.17ug/dl and 10.47ug/dl. With our cush pups being treated with Lysodren, usually, the ideal or goal numbers are between 1ug/dl - 5ug/dl (30 nmol/L - 137 nmol/L)...if my calculations are right! All pups are different tho, some feel better running their numbers slightly on the higher side while some will feel better on the lower end of the spectrum. Only you know Ebonie best.

I am sure the others will be along shortly to comment, so hang in there, ok. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hello Catherine,

I am with Nathalie and believe the tests are all discombobulated; however, I think I've figured out some of it. Based on the first comments/pathology findings, I believe these results are probably for a low dose dexamethasone suppression (LDDS) test; however, the results of the 2nd and 3rd draws look more like what you would see on an acth stimulation test. Do you recall if Ebonie was at the vet's office for 8 hours when this test was done. The numbers are mighty high for an LDDS and yes, they would be indicative of an adrenal; however, about 10% of dogs with pituitary dependent cushing's will not suppress so an ultrasound is usually done to make that determination. A lot of us are used to seeing these test results in ug/dl so I have made the conversion below:

Pre 140 nmol - 5.07 ug/dl
4 hour 598 nmol = 21.67 ug/dl
8 hour 629 nmol = 22.80 ug/dl

The second comment/pathology findings you posted are for an acth stimulation test but the comments list reference ranges for diagnostic purposes as opposed to the reference range that should be used for monitoring lysodren or trilostane treatment. It drives me crazy that there isn't a box that a vet checks on the paperwork submitted to the lab that indicates that the test is for treatment monitoring so that the lab provides an appropriate interpretation. An appropriate interpretation would be that for purposes of monitoring treatment with lysodren or trilostane pre and post cortisol should be between 30 and 110 nmol (1 - 5 ug/dl). See conversion of Ebonie's April 30th acth stim test results below:

Pre 87 nmol = 3.17 ug/dl
Post 289 nmol = 10.47 ug/dl

The post number is still quite high so even though Ebonie's symptoms have improved greatly, her stimulated cortisol number is not within the desired therapeutic range which in most cases, symptoms will not fully resolve. Whether the increase in maintenance will bring that number down to within the desired range is a roll of the dice. In our experience, that doesn't happen very often when the post stim number is over 9 or 10 ug/dl.

As for the T4 and TSH you posted, those would be thyroid levels but it appears that you only posted the normal reference ranges.

I hope this helps.

Glynda

P.S. I see that Lori has posted while I was typing so please excuse any duplication

[bernie47]

a big thanks.. to labblab..Nathalie..Harley pompom.. lulussmom ..:)
i copied the results exactly the way they were written but as i am new to all this .. was hard for me to under stand..
yes ebonie was in for 4 hours first time ...and 5 hours 2nd time.. vet says will need another acth test in 3 months time.. to see how upping her meds will go !
my vet is treating 2 other cush/pups at moment.. and we all seem to be going along the same..as we are going into winter here ebonie feels the cold.. but seems to be doing all the right things..sometimes vomits.. once..on 2nd day after lysodren and then ok again.. chases doves in our court yard..and looks for nurses on my knee when i sit down..to rest. no peeing accidents or panting..and only eats at meal times..occasionally leaves some;) i appreciate your help.. keep up the good work..Catherine

[bernie47]

Thanks heaps ... Will let you know how we get on

[bernie47]

thanks to all will keep you posted how we get on ...Catherine:)

[bernie47]

Hi Glynda.. ebonie not doing so well ,has her meds on Monday .. and each Thursday with out fail vomits 3to4 times and come good again.
has been picky with her food so vet suggested we try some thing else ..[ hills science diet ]..but no wouldn't have a bar of it .
so know trying her on 80grms of tucker time wet food , seems to like this !
she weighs 3.7 kg and fur really thick and healthy, had her last acth test on 30/4/2010..vet suggested we do another acth soon if she doesn't settle.... after loading first time vet put her on 1/4 of lyso & then upped it 1/8
[ 1/4 & 1/8 ] on Monday of each week .... i am concerned that i am doing the right thing bye her , would appreciate some input.. Catherine...

[Casey's Mom]

Catherine I would do another ACTH as your vet has suggested. You need to know her levels and the vomiting does not sound good.

By the way many of us here give Pepcid AC 15 to 20 minutes before Lysodren and it helps to settle their stomach. When you talk to your vet perhaps you should ask and get some sort of recommended dosage for your Ebonie. Hopefully you can get it where you live.

Love and hugs,

[bernie47]

Thank you... Caseys mum... we are seeing her today , will keep in touch .. all the best Catherine...

[Harley PoMMom]

One thing we do recommend when a pup is vomiting and not eating well is to with-hold their cushing's medication and to have an ACTH stim test done. The reason we recommend this is because the pups cortisol might have dropped too low and if this happens this needs to be addressed.

When Harley first started taking his Lysodren he did on two occasions vomit. After giving him Pepcid AC 20-30 minutes before his Lysodren and giving him Pepcid AC the morning after his Lysodren, the vomiting stopped.

Please keep us posted and keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[bernie47]

Ebonie is in the vet as i type...having acth test..

vet would like to know what ingredients pepcid ac has in it , as American medicines are different ...as in name !

she is also chasing up her own contacts for me ..because the one she has now is in bulk ...orders only .
vet is trying to keep my costs down without jeopardizing ebonies health, her acth test today will be $295.00 Aust / dolars . will post tests when available...Catherine .
thanks for your kind thoughts every body....

[frijole]

Don't thank me, thank GOOGLE. :D

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_ingredients_are_in_Pepcid_AC

[bernie47]

Ebonie.. refusing to eat ...but drinking.. waiting for acth test ..results ? Catherine..:confused:

[Harley PoMMom]

How is Ebonie doing? Is she eating? I have been giving Harley pepcid (famotidine) and Reglan (metoclopramide) to help with his upset tummy and these both really seem to help.

Have you gotten the ACTH stim test results back yet?

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[bernie47]

The tests ebonie had were, acth......] her cortisol levels are slightly up.. continue with lyso..1/4..per week .
just a question i would like to know.. while i was reading about other peoples ACTH test , noted pups stay in from 4 to 8 hrs .. as part of testing , ebonie was in for 4 hrs and this is what they did .... 1 synacthen 25mg per vial
1 lab cortisol x 2
also would like to know what is post stim ? will post results soon as i pick them up ..ebonie not eating much but weight staying same 3.7kilo . .drinking water though ..have to keep in touch with vet each day to see how she is progressing .. will keep you updated .. thanks for caring ..Catherine

[bernie47]

Ebonie has been put on stemetil 5mg ..1/2 tab 3 x day ,for nausea ... having trouble getting them down , but we are getting there ..:confused:

[Harley PoMMom]

The post draw is the measurment of cortisol after the injection of the synthetic ACTH. For a pup being treated with Lysodren the pre and post numbers should be between 1ug/dl-5ug/dl.

Hope this helps, if not, please, please ask more questions, ok?

Keeping you and Ebonie in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[bernie47]

Thanks Lori.... gee.....you cant half tell i am stressed.. as well as trying to work out the threads.. i see i have them all over the place.. still new to computers ..[ lots of laughs ]..hanging in there with ebonie one day at a time , keeping in touch with vet daily basis.. :) will update when can ... cheers Catherine..

[bernie47]

Vet has put ebonie on stemital ..1/2 ..3 times a day..
is starting to eat a little.. now..paws crossed .. ?:eek:

[bernie47]

:)...Ebonie is eating again .. 2 small meals a day ... and keeping them down.. stematil helped a lot ....paws crossed ..running around playing with toys ... ;)
so nice to see .. cheers Catherine.

[Casey's Mom]

Yeah!!! Great news, it is so nice to see our pups become themselves again. You are doing a great job.

Love and hugs,

[Harley PoMMom]

YAAA!!! I am so happy to read that Ebonie is eating again. Give sweet Ebonie some gentle hugs from Harley and me. You are such a wonderful and loving mom to Ebonie.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Catherine,

I am so relieved to read that Ebonie is eating again! You are probably ecstatic to see that, huh? ;) Squirt pulled a mini-hunger strike about a week ago because I put some bitter pain med in her food and that worried me silly. I can only imagine how you have been feeling! :eek:

I hope her appetite continues to improve and that soon she will be begging for bites again!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bernie47]

Ebonie has had a tiny set back ..today vomited and had tiny specs of blood in it .
vet suggested we stop lyso, for 2 weeks and start pred / 1 tablet daily... and keep in touch.. to see where we go from there.
her acth test is back ..

[bernie47]

ACTH tests are as followers..

total t4 nmol/l 17.37 cortisol [1] nmoi/l 220...mnoi/l
tsh ng/ml 0.0 cortisol [2] nmoi/l 386...ng/ml
nmoi/l insulin mu/l
comments:
for patients recieving treatment with lysodren,target ranges for both pre and post acth samples are 30-110onomol/l...final endocrinology report :
hope i copied this ok ...all confusing to me ...Catherine

[Squirt's Mom]

Morning Catherine,

You did the right thing in stopping the Lyso when Ebonie threw up. The blood in it would have freaked me out completely! :eek: Was the vet not concerned about that aspect? I really hope this was a one time thing!

I immediately thought of Annie and the discovery of the Heliobacter she has that has been causing her some real problems eating. If you haven't read Kim and Annie's thread recently, here is the link to the portion I am talking about:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=933&page=46

The discussion of the bacterial infection starts with post #456.

Keep us informed on how she is doing today and you keep your chin up! You are doing a great job with her.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[bernie47]

Thank you Leslie..vet tells me lyso can cause gastril/problems.. did mention another drug we could try,but cant recall the name , will check again when we go back next week .[ check up ]..it is 10.30pm here w a ...
it is so difficult watching her suffer !
Ebonie lost 300 gms in 8 days.
weighs 3.6 kilo..now ..
my other girl [ natcho ] had a cruciate ligament done last june 2009..and looks like her left leg has gone now, will be looking at $1200 aust / dollars. you have a lovely day..
Catherine

[lulusmom]

ACTH tests are as followers..

total t4 nmol/l 17.37 cortisol [1] nmoi/l 220...mnoi/l
tsh ng/ml 0.0 cortisol [2] nmoi/l 386...ng/ml
nmoi/l insulin mu/l
comments:
for patients recieving treatment with lysodren,target ranges for both pre and post acth samples are 30-110onomol/l...final endocrinology report :
hope i copied this ok ...all confusing to me ...Catherine

Catherine, those results look a bit confusing to me too but I think it may be that the columns got screwed up. It looks like the results of the acth stim test are as follows:

Pre draw = 220 nmol/l (converted to ug/dl = 8 ug/dl)
Post draw = 386 nmol/l (converted to ug/dl = 14 ug/dl)

If this is correct, Ebony's cushing's is not under control. Was the acth stim test done after Ebony vomited blood and you discontinued the Lysodren?

[frijole]

Catherine - I am Kim, Anne's mom. We just went thru an experience where she quit eating while loading also. She was also put on pills for nausea. My vet made me cease giving the lysodren.

Tell us - have you ever had any problems with getting Ebonie to eat before? When did the eating issues start? Have you kept a diary or log of any sort that you can share details?

It sounds as if something else besides cushings is going on and whether you continue with the lysodren is up to your vet but I would have some tests done to see if something else is going on. A blood panel would be a potential start.

My dog has a nasty bacteria and they are now saying she might not even have cushings. So please tell us all you can and if we can help guide you we will. Big hugs, Kim

PS You mentioned your vet talked about using another drug. Please note that you cannot just QUIT lysodren and start giving other drugs. You must wait at least 30 days to completely flush the system. Plus I do not for a minute believe the lysodren is causing the problems you describe. Please take Ebonie to the vet to be checked out asap. Thanks!!

[bernie47]

thanks guys.. never had problem with ebonie eating before ...except 24/7 with symptoms prior to taking lyso..
her last acth was done on...9/7/2010..and no acth done after vomiting little specks of blood..22/7/2010..only taking pred-x 5mg a day at moment...will keep in touch
Catherine..

[bernie47]

Hi guys..
ebonie..hasn't vomitted since i last posted ..she is still on pred / 1 daily ..eating again ..will be trying lyso again when vet says ..
vet has told me we can get trilo in W A now.. but think will stick with lyso for now...
my other girl.. natcho is showing signs of cruciate ligament in her other leg now..had her right leg done last June 2009...:eek:..will post soon ..hugs to all ..
Catherine;)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Catherine,

So happy to hear that Ebonie's eating and keeping her food down. I know I was at my wits end trying to find things that Harley would eat when he had his phase of inappetency. :eek: Keep us posted. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[bernie47]

Thanks Lori,
will post when more news ..;)

[bernie47]

Ebonie has had a little turn ..was sitting on my knee and started shaking,put her down to see if she could stand up and was wobbly...she then tried to drink water but only a few mouth fulls..we patted her to keep her calm.. lasted 2 or 3 minutes ..in recollection it reminded me of when she had a mild stroke.
Took her to after hours vet ..they said to stop her lyso and see my vet when long weekend is over ..and not to give her pred/ unless symptoms got worse to ring them and they would tell me if she needed them. poor little girl will be in touch ..Catherine:confused:

[apollo6]

Sorry to hear about Ebonie. Will be praying for you. The disease and all it's complications is a challenge.
Hugs Sonja and Apollo

[frijole]

Perhaps a stroke or a seizure. Alot of cush dogs have seizures where they shake and have a dazed look then snap out of it. My gal Haley had them a few times and they are frightening but short lived in most cases. Good that your vet is involved. Keep us posted. Kim

[lulusmom]

My Lulu has also had a few seizures in the past and luckily we haven't had anymore for over a year. Like Ebonie, the seizure itself lasted only a minute or so but it took her five to ten minutes to snap out of it totally. After she came around, it was like nothing ever happened and she was back to her old spoiled self.

[bernie47]

Thanks to the heads up people.. yes it was a bit overwhelming for her and hubby and i.. ask Lori for help on face book when it was happening such a nice lady .
There is no where in PERTH W A that you can look to for support ...when your not sure , just what to do .
Every thing i know ..just about ..i Google or read from all you lovely people ..keep up the good work ..Catherine;)

[littleone1]

Hi Catherine,

Corky has also had seizues in the past. It was a couple of years before he started to show symptoms of Cushings. My vet had me keep track of the dates and how long they lasted. The first one he had really scared me. I was getting ready for work and I heard a noise in the hallway. It was Corky actually thrashing and hitting the walls. It lasted several minutes. He was also shaking and had a disoriented look in his eyes. The reason for the many seizures he had was never figured out. As time passed, they became less frequent and for shorter periods of time. It's been almost two years since he's had one.

Terri

[bernie47]

We have seen our vet with ebonie .. and she said seizures
were not uncommon with cushings dogs ..not medicating her..for them .
seems to be picking up again .. and will post when more to tell, ;)

[judymaggie]

Hi, Catherine -- My Maggie had seizures (both grand mal and cluster). Of considerable help to me was the Epi Guardian Angels website at http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/default.htm. I learned how important it was to keep a log of each seizure, including what occurred before and after, as well as what I could do for Maggie to help her during the seizure and afterwards. My first reaction each time was panic but, knowing some steps to take, helped me calm down. To medicate or not usually depends on the severity and/or frequency of the seizures.

Please give Ebonie a gentle hug!

[bernie47]

Hi Judy, thank you for that information !
I have a diary of all ebonies problems... likes and dislikes and vet was imprest with all the info/ i have got since joining this site ..because i live in a complex of seniors i am constantly being ridiculed for keeping ebonie going .
In their day the answer was to'' put them down ''....
my first chihauhua [male] died at age 17 yrs.. ebonie is 10 yrs and 4 months.. so as long as i can fight to keep her with me ..i will ..and with the help of all you lovely people i am sure we will be OK..;) cheers for now Catherine.

[AlisonandMia]

..because i live in a complex of seniors i am constantly being ridiculed for keeping ebonie going .
In their day the answer was to'' put them down ''....


Oh the irony!:eek::confused::rolleyes::D

I felt that apart from the fact it was the right thing to do (and that was the main reason!) treating Mia's chronic illness (Cushing's) rather than just throwing her away was also teaching my children a good lesson in how to treat and continue to value the elderly and the infirm. I saw it as an investment....:D

Alison

[bernie47]

OK...folks , ebonie has returned back to square 1..! drinking more and clear pee...leakage on her bed , and while she is sleeping .
I seem to remember reading on here that it can happen ,
only 2 days with symptoms ..so made appointment with my home away from home.. favorite person..VET .
I don't know about you people , but i have put on 10 kg since my two girls have ongoing problems... so now my doctor is on my case... :eek:
At least i know what i am dealing with this time around, with ebonie :(

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Catherine,

Will the vet be checking for UTI? Sometimes drinking alot and wetting the bed can be symptoms. I want to wish you the best of luck for when you go to the vet. I hope Ebonie's issue is only mild, and can be easily resolved.
Hugs
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[bernie47]

Hi Jane,
thanks for your well wishes.. will mention uti to vet to day,
Catherine.. i see you are from my part of the world NSW .....Australia . ;)

[littleone1]

Hi Catherine,

I wanted to chime in on what Jane said. When Corky started having accidents in the house, it was due in part to Cushings, but mostly because he had 2 UTIs. Once he was on the antibiotics, and the UTIs started clearing up, the accidents stopped.

Terri

[bernie47]

So sorry every one ..my grandson tells me i have been posting in the wrong place..silly old fool i am , so just click on bernie47 and you will find me.. :o Catherine.

[Harley PoMMom]

So sorry every one ..my grandson tells me i have been posting in the wrong place

Catherine, what do you mean here? As far as I know you have been posting in the right Thread when you have information about Ebonie...Ebonie's Thread. So I'm confused, which doesn't take much.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[gpgscott]

Hi Catherine,

You of course should check for UTI but it would also be good to ask about proin or DES. Older females can develop a lack of muscle tone which leads to urinary incontinence particualarly when asleep. I have used both meds in the past. I prefer the DES as it is a synthetic substitute for the diminished hormone at the root of the problem. The proin is also effective but I think has more potential for side effects.

Good luck. Scott

[bernie47]

Hi Lori..john gave me a quick link to ebonies thread ..and some how i have two going now..? but only use this one lol ..! ;) Catherine .

[judymaggie]

Catherine -- I wanted to follow up on Scott's post mentioning Proin and DES. Maggie had developed urinary incontinence (most likely due to early spaying) at an early age. I used Proin for several years and, when it started to become less effective, added DES. Unfortunately, that didn't help. I then tried Homeopet's "Leaks No More" -- I first showed my vet the list of ingredients and he said that they were harmless. It worked great! I was able to find it at a health food store but on-line prices were much better. My vet is now suggesting the product to others.

[bernie47]

:(..We are still here , but my little fur baby ...is giving up the fight ...wont be with us much longer, i have given her all my love and devotion .. and a lovely life ..hugs and kisses to all that have helped us along the way ...
will post again soon ...Catherine.

[labblab]

:(..We are still here , but my little fur baby ...is giving up the fight ...wont be with us much longer, i have given her all my love and devotion .. and a lovely life ..hugs and kisses to all that have helped us along the way ...
will post again soon ...Catherine.
Dear Catherine,

I am so terribly sorry that this time has come for Ebonie. Please give her many special hugs and kisses for all of us here, and know that we remain here to support you always.

Marianne

[frijole]

Catherine, Huge hugs and warm thoughts coming from my home to yours as well. xoxoxox Kim

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Cathrine,

I don't want to hear this! Ebonie is such a fighter, battling everything that has been handed her; this just breaks my heart. :(

Sweetie, I am so sorry you now feel her fight is ending. You are such a wonderful mom to her and have done all in your power to help her enjoy her life to the fullest. And I know you will continue to do just that as long as Ebonie needs you to.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Please let us hear from you soon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[Spiceysmum]

Catherine,

Your post made me cry because I know how you must be feeling. I
can tell she has had a lovely life with you and the feeling of helplessness is so overwhelming. God Bless.

Linda

[jrepac]

Bless you and Ebonie...you both fought very hard. She looks like a real sweetheart.....I am so sorry for you. This is an awful month for us here.

Jeff & Angel Mandy

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Catherine,

Huge hugs coming from home as well. Will be keeping you and sweet Ebonie in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and more hugs,
Lori

[BestBuddy]

Catherine,

You and Ebonie are in my thoughts and prayers.

Jenny

[bernie47]

Ebonie has passed ...hugs & kisses to all that has helped along the way ..i truly will miss the tiny heart beat on my knee ..but we did what we had to do ..so long my precious little girl ... you put up a brave fight ..Catherine & ken

[Roxee's Dad]

Dear Catherine & ken

I am so very sorry for your loss. You are loved, Rest in Peace Sweet Ebonie.

[SachiMom]

Godspeed Ebonie.

One day your sweet memories will ease the pain for your mum, until then, we hold her in our prayers.

Hugs ~ Mary Ann

[littleone1]

I'm so sorry to hear about Ebonie. Rest in peace sweet girl. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers, Catherine.

((HUGS)))
Terri

[mytil]

I am so very sorry. Your little Ebonie is watching over you right now and if no longer in pain or discomfort. Please stay with us, we are crying along with you.

((((((hugs)))))
Terry

[Franklin'sMum]

Oh Catherine,

I am so very sorry to learn that Ebonie has passed. Please don't doubt yourself, you did everything possible to give Ebonie a great life, and a dignified, painless passing. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Ken.
I know you will miss her with every beat of your heart, just as you loved, and continue to love her with every beat of your heart.
We're here with you and for you Catherine.
Sending massive (((HUGS))) to you,

Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Catherine and Ken,

I am so sorry for your loss. Your precious Ebonie has left this plane but her spirit is as you once knew her when she was young and healthy. Today she runs free with the wind, chasing butterflies, eating ham biscuit sandwiches, and frolicking with the many who have gone before. Her pain is gone, she is once again whole.

I hope you are able to find joy in your memories and this raw, soul-ripping pain you feel today will ease as the days pass. Your sweet Ebonie will always be remembered and honored here.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Squirt, Trinket, and our Angels, Ruby and Crystal


I AM NOT THERE
Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there, I did not die.

Various sources attribute this poem to the one of the following authors:
(A) Mary Frye
(B) Joyce Fossen
(C) An unknown member of the Hobi Native American Tribe

[Bichonluver3]

Dear Catherine & Ken,
I have not been posting but have been following your thread. I am so sorry that this time of sadness has come for you. But you did give Ebonie the greatest, most selfless gift you could - a life full of joy & love and an easy passage to the rainbow bridge. Now she is free to run through the sunny fields of heaven with all her new friends as well as your furrpup that went before. I know how hard this must all be for you but it is important for you to take care of yourselves as well as that other precious baby, Natcho, who will need some extra love. When the time is right, I would love to see more pictures and hear more stories of Ebonie and your wonderful life together. In the meantime, I hold you in my thoughts and prayers and my arms are around you.
Give Natcho an extra tummy rub from us. To Ebonie, God speed beautiful, sweet girl. Run free with the wind at your back and sunshine on your face. I will look tonight to see our newest star shining brightly in the sky.
Love,
Carrol & Chloe

[jrepac]

Rest easy little Ebonie...

Jeff & Angel Mandy

[Casey's Mom]

Dear Catherine and Ken,

I am so very sorry to hear of Ebonie crossing over the bridge. I know words cannot ease your pain but I want you to know we are all here for you. My deepest sympathies.

Love and many hugs,

[John II]

Dear Catherine and Ken,

I'm sure Ebonie had the life that most dogs could only dream of.
You did everything you could for her, up to and including letting her go. There is nothing that can really be said at this time, just know that so many thoughts and prayers and hugs are being sent to you right now.

Rest in peace, sweet Ebonie :(

[mypuppy]

Dear Catherine,
I am so deeply saddened for your great loss and your deep pain. may God bless you and sweet Ebonie always. Tight hugs. Jeanette and Princess

[Harley PoMMom]

Dear Catherine,

I am so, so sorry for the loss of your sweet Ebonie. I know these mere words do not help ease the pain you feel and I wish there was more I could do for you.

My heart goes out to you, my dear friend, and please know we will be here for you always.

With Heartfelt Sympathy,
Lori

[bernie47]

You are all such lovely people ..i cant begin to tell you how much i appreciate your concern ..now and always .
I guess when i lost my faith in humanity ..i surrounded myself with the love of my two girls Ebonie & Natcho..
But knowing you people has helped me to restore faith once more ..i have donated all ebonies beds toys. feed bowls to BSA..rescue here in Perth WA..
As Natcho has all her own ...and some are a bit small .
i would like to post a poem to help other member with the loss of their fur baby .. may god bless you all Catherine & Ken .. Friday 19 / 11 / 2010

The Last Battle (http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/lastbatt.htm)

[Casey's Mom]

Beautiful poem Bernie. My heart truly aches for you.

Love and many hugs,

[bkdice]

Catherine - So sorry for your loss. The Last Battle is a wonderful poem. I read it daily during my boys last days, to remind myself to look for signs of 'the time'.

How thoughtful of you to donate Ebonie's stuff. Rescues always appreciate this, and you know it will be used for another dog that is being given a second chance at life.

Wishing you peace in your heart.