Grendel, 10 y/o Lab-Newfie (Atypical) (Test results)

[eowyn]

Grendel, my 10yr old lab newfie mix, was just diagnosed with atypical cushings. It was a great relief to get an answer after 14 months of searching. His symptoms began in Aug 2008 with recurring skin infections. I began to notice an increase in his thirst and hunger. He slept all the time and would sometimes choose not to go on walks. His fur lost its velvety feel and small patches would be missing. Only recently, did his weight gain go crazy. In Apr 2009 he weighed 72 lbs and now he's 80. The vet ran all the usual tests. He's had skin biopsies, adrenal ultrasound, ACTH stim test, low dose dex test, thyroid, liver, etc. I think every metabolic function was tested and everything came back normal. It wasn't until Grendel had the test done through the Univ of TN that I got an answer. His cortisol levels are normal but he has elevated sex hormones.

Flaxseed hulls and melatonin have been recommended for him. Does anyone know where I can buy the flaxseed hulls in capsule form? Is the powder given in a pill pocket? I

Thanks.
eowyn

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Eowyn,
Welcome to you and Grendel. Looks like you have done a great job in obtaining a confirmed diagnosis. :)

Seems many members use this site:

http://www.flaxhulls.com/index.html

Hope to hear more about Grendel :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Eowyn,

Welcome to you and Grendel from me and my boy Harley also. I must say you have done a very good job with getting your boy diagnosed properly. My Harley is Atypical + PDH, he is on the flax hulls with the lignans and the melatonin. Make sure that the melatonin you get is NOT the fast-acting or rapid-releasing kind, you want the regular, plain melatonin, ok.

Now the flax hulls with lignans I give Harley I purchased from the website John gave you, if you do want another kind I am including a post from one of our administrators that has a link to a website for lignans in capsule form.


...

I have two dogs with typical cushing's and one of them also has elevated intermediate/sex hormones. Her lignans come from pressed flax hulls purchased from www.flaxhulls.com. In the past, she has also taken lignans purchased from http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Flax-Seed-Lignans
Both are very good; however, improvements are not usually seen for three to four months.

Glynda

I was wondering, if you don't mind, if you could post the test results of the full adrenal panel and the summary comments on the treatment option sheet made by Dr Oliver. We always love to hear what he has to say about our members pups. We learn so much from him.

We are looking forward to hearing more about your beautiful Grendel.

Hugs.
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eowyn, welcome to you and Grendel! :)

The handle reminds me of The Lord of the Rings trilogy! Love it! :D

As others have already said, congrats on doing such a wonderful job in getting Grendel diagnosed! Excellent follow-through and perseverance! Give yourself a big pat on the back from me. :D

My Squirt is also Atypical. She has been on the flax hulls until this week and we went back to the purified capsules...simply because I have so many caps and so little $$ right now. :p Squirt weighs around 13.5 lbs and takes 3 capsules of lignans and 6 mg of melatonin per day and is doing well anecdotally so far. She will need to have another UTK panel done as soon as I can. The last one showed her levels back within normal range except for the estradiol and the progesterones. She does not have elevated cortisol so she is simply Atypical.

John and Lori have given you the info on the hulls. The capsules can be found at VitaCost.com and the brand most use is NSI. Jarrow used to be the preferred brand, but they quit making the flax capsules so we all went to the NSI brand and have had good luck with it.

As Lori said, be sure the melatonin is simply that - not extended, rapid release, etc. just plain ole melatonin.

And please do post the UTK results if you don't mind. ;)

I am so glad you and Grendel have joined us and hope to learn much more about you both as time goes by.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[labblab]

Welcome from me, too!!

I just wanted you to know that I revised your thread title so that it will be easier for everyone to get to know Grendel! :) :)

Marianne

[eowyn]

Thanks so much for the advice. I think I'll buy the flax capsules because it will be so much easier to get Grendel to take the pills. He'll eat anything, especially if it's wrapped in cheese. I'll get his test results posted as soon as I can.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Eowyn,

Just to let you know the hulls are sprinkled over food, which is easy if they are eating canned or some other form of wet food. Kibble would be a bit more difficult to give it this way, but you could mix the hulls in a wet treat.

Not trying to dissuade you from using the capsules, just wanted you to know the hulls aren't that hard to give. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[eowyn]

Here are Grendel's test results from the Univ of TN. He's a 10yo neutered lab/newfy mix. Dr Oliver noted that Grendel has increased adrenal activity. He recommends 6mg 2X/day of melatonin and 80mg of lignans for treatment.

base, post ACTH 1hr, post ACTH 2hr
Cortisol 25.5, 141.6, 161.1
Androstenedione .34, 3.3, 2.9
Estradiol 80.4, 82.1, 74.1
Progesterone .75, Insufficient sample
17 OH Progesterone .10, 1.95, 2.71
Aldosterone 108.2, Insufficient sample

I'm really hoping that I notice an improvement within 6 months. Most days he's just a lump of fur sleeping the day away. I'm learning way more about Cushings than I ever wanted :D.

Thanks,
Eowyn

[Squirt's Mom]

Thanks, Eowyn,

Could you provide the units of measurement (ug/dl, mnol/L, etc) and normal ranges? Also some of those numbers look to be way low out of range so could you recheck them? These are really odd looking numbers so I am a bit confused. :o:confused:;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[eowyn]

Sorry, I left off the units of measure because I don't know what they mean:confused:. I hope this makes more sense for you. This is all the info I have on the sheet from Dr Oliver. Please let me know if you have any questions about it.

Cortisol ng/ml baseline=25.5 (normal 2.0-56.5)
post ACTH, 1hr=141.6 & 2hr=161.1 (normal 70.6-151.2)

Androstenedione ng/ml baseline=.34 (normal .05-.36)
post ACTH, 1hr=3.30 & 2hr=2.90 (normal=.24-2.90)

Estradiol pg/ml baseline=80.4 (normal=23.1-65.1)
post ACTH, 1hr=82.1 & 2hr=74.1 (normal=23.3-69.4)

Progesterone ng/ml baseline=.75 (normal=.22-1.45)
post ACTH results undetermined-insufficient sample

17 OH Progesterone ng/ml baseline=.10 (normal=.08-.22)
post ACTH, 1hr=1.95 & 2hr=2.71 (normal=.25-2.63)

Aldosterone pg/ml baseline=108.2 (normal=11-139.9)
post ACTH results undetermined

[gpgscott]

Welcome Eowyn and Grendel.

I prefer the lignans which I get from vitacost.com as has already been posted. There is some research to indicate that the pressed hulls are actually superior in the active ingrediant but I like the convienience of the cap, and it is working for us.

Make sure the melatonin is just melatonin, not fast or extended release versions. You can get it anywhere.

I would not worry about the insufficient sample on the progesterone as the 17-OH progesterone is usually also elevated when these hormones are an issue and these respond to Lysodren.

It looks to me like an estradiol elevation which while it is not quick to respond is one of the most benign in terms of acute issues.

I cannot see that you have posted the treatment recommendation that comes with the lab report from UTK. Did you recieve it?

Best to you both. Scott

[eowyn]

Recommended treatment was giving 6mg of melatonin 2x/day and 80mg of lignans once/day. Nothing else was prescribed.

I guess it's the "wait and see" approach to see if he responds to it. I'm looking forward to noticing improvements in his health, appearance, and behavior. It's been a long 14 months getting to this point.

I chose the pills because I thought they'd be easier. Grendel will eat anything wrapped in cheese. To give the powder, I'd have to give him wet food and he'd enjoy that way too much. He'd never look at his dry food again. Plus, my other dog would expect the same.

Thanks.
Eowyn