Hi, I'm Rocco. Thought I'd introduce myself.

[AboutRocco]

My name is Rocco. I am a neutered male chihuahua, about two years old. Here is what my foster mom knows about me. I was an owner-relinquish to the Denver Animal Shelter in Colorado. My foster mom doesn't know why and I can't tell her. She will tell you that I was "walking the green mile" (on my way to be put down) when a nice lady passed me in the hallway. The girl carrying me stopped her and asked her if she would consider taking me. I was going to be "put to sleep" (whatever that means) in the next few minutes because they didn't think they could find a home for me since I was missing so much hair. This nice lady agreed to take me. She is with an organization in Colorado called RottieAid. They actually rescue rottweilers so I am not sure how I ended up there. Anyway, she kept me for awhile so her vet could try to figure out what was wrong with me. I went to a foster home and shortly after that, I was diagnosed with Atypical Cushings. Three times now, I have come close to getting a new home, but something always seems to go wrong. My foster mom thinks I'm pretty cool, but she says I am the typical stereotype of a male chihuahua which makes it difficult to introduce me to new people. I have no clue what she means. Anyway, my foster mom is hoping that we can learn more from you guys. I love Quinn (a rottweiler), I love to eat, and I love to chase cats. I hate wearing coats and find the need to roll a lot when I come in on a cold day and get my coat off. I will eat anything you give me. So far, the only "medication" I take is melatonin and flax seed oil. I am on Natural Balance Dog Food, but have no adverse reactions to any food I am given. My foster mom wants to know if any of you have any good advice for us.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Rocco and Rocco's foster mom,

Welcome to our family :) I must say...you poor dear...you have been thru alot and I am so happy that your foster mom found you and is taking such great, loving care of you.

My boy Harley is Atypical and PDH, his treatment as of right now is melatonin and flax hulls with lignans. This is from the treatment option sheet from Dr Oliver: "Use lignan from FLAX SEED HULLS (or HMR lignan). DO NOT USE flax seed oil as the lignan content is very low, and the flax oil can exacerbate pancreatitis in dogs (triglyceride levels may increase). Search for standardized products (via Google or health food stores) that allow determination of lignan content. Available products allow for flexible dosing, and the suggested approximate daily dose of lignan is one milligram (mg) per pound of body weight."

Here is a link to the treatment option sheet:
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/Treatment%20Info,%20Atypical%20Cushing's,%20revise d,%20Aug.,%202009.pdf

If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask, these people here are amazing, they have helped me and my boy Harley tremendously.

Hugs.
Lori

[StarDeb55]

Hi, Rocco! We are so very glad that your foster mom & you found our group. If you don't mind, does your foster Mom have a name? It's a lot more personal than saying "heh, you".

I know that since your a foster, your mom probably doesn't know a whole lot about your background, but I still need to ask a few questions, just tell her to answer them to the best of her ability. First of all, to be diagnosed as Atypical Cushing's, someone, at some point, would have had to have had a full adrenal panel done on you by the Univ of Tenn., Knoxville. This lab test would show the cortisol levels, along with the 5 other associated hormones that the adrenals produce. Does your mom have a copy of this labwork or does she know where she might get a copy, including a copy of the treatment recommendations sheet? If she could do that, & post the results for us, that would help us a whole lot to give her the best advice we can from the group's collective experience so she can help you. A lot of symptoms for Atypical & regular Cushing's can be the same, one of which is skin/coat issues which you already are bothered with. Do you have any other symptoms such as drinking lots of water or peeing buckets? Do you have a huge appetite for a little one, wanting to eat anything you can find whether it's exactly good for you or not? Are you bothered by any muscle wasting or weakness, especially in your backend? If your mom can fill us in as best she can about your background & everything she knows, we will do our best to help both of you.

We would love to hear more about you. Please tell your Mom, God Bless that she has given you a loving, safe home.

Debbie

PS- Dr. Oliver that Lori mentioned is the vet that runs the Endocrinology lab that the Univ. Tenn., Knoxville. He is probably the world's foremost expert on Atypical Cushing's, & a Cushing's guru, in general.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Rocco! :)

Welcome to you and your foster mom, who is an angel by the way. ;)

You been given some good info as usual and some of the questions we always ask of new-comers, so I won't repeat much of that. :p

I do want to reinforce what Lori said about the FSO (flax seed oil). The lignan content is low, not always consistent, and can bring on pancreatic difficulties, something fairly common in cush pups. So ask your foster mom to look into either purified lignans in a capsule form or the crushed flax hulls Lori talked about. The caps can be found at VitaCost (NSI brand) and can be opened and sprinkled on the food if it is too big for you to swallow. It doesn't taste too bad, my Squirt never even notices it's there! Of course, she's a big piggy! :p

Squirt is also Atypical and she is on the melatonin and flax hulls. She has been doing very well in regards to her signs but the estradiol was still high at last testing. That is the booger to get control of because it can be produced in areas of the body other than the adrenals. Yes, I know you are male and think males are supreme and don't have silly things like female hormones....but you do, sweet little man, you do. :eek:;):p:D I could really insult you and let you know that females have progesterone....but I won't burst your bubble today. :p

You and your foster mom have come to the best place in the world for assistance, support and experience. We will be here every step of the way with ya'll, ready and willing to help in any way we can.

I am glad you found us and hope to learn more as time goes by about both of you. You keep an eye on those Rotties, keep 'em in line...geez they think size is everything, don't they? :rolleyes::p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[AboutRocco]

Hi All,

This is Karen, Rocco's foster mom. Sorry for taking so long to reply. You guys are awesome. After reading your responses to Rocco, for the first time since we took him, I felt like some one really cared. I have had a hectic week, but will send you all the information from Rocco's test results, etc. later today or tomorrow.

As far as symptoms go, he has very thin, sparse hair, is starving ALL the time, and last winter had issues with bleeding ear tips and bleeding on the top of his head from thin skin. He is not perfectly housebroke, but I doubt that has anything to do with the Atypical Cushings. He fits the stereotype of the personality of a male chihuahua. Rocco defintely has attitude. Between the Cushings and his personality, we are really having a hard time finding someone willing to adopt him or even to take him in as a foster (I am way over my limit on dogs).

Rocco is a great little dog. Loves to play and really wants to have a person of his own. This guy really deserves to have a good life. We really appreciate your support.

Karen

[StarDeb55]

Karen, all of Rocco's symptoms do fit those of a Cushpup, whether it's regular Cushing's or Atypical. Most of the time the symptoms are pretty similar for the 2, including the peeing buckets & drinking tons of water. Skin & coat issues are quite common, along with repeated infections that can be difficult to heal as Cushing's does suppress the immune system. Looking forward to seeing those results. Please give Rocco a big pat for me, & tell him that there are a lot of folks, now, to help him get to feeling better so he has a chance at his forever home.

Debbie

[AboutRocco]

Here is the test results for Rocco. No more tests have been done since this one. He has been on melatonin and is curently on the correct flaxseed per Univ. of TN recommendation. I personally have never had a chance to talk to the vet myself. Everything I have learned came from the original rescue/foster person. Please let me know what you think.

How often should tests be run? He has had hair grow back (though not all of it) and is doing well. I don't know yet if we will run into the thin skin/bleeding problems again until we hit some bad weather. He has coats, but we bought him a hoodie today to try to keep over his head and ears when he has to go out in the really bad weather. It has crossed my mind that we could have to litter box train him if we have a really bad winter. Not my first choice.

Karen

Patient: ROCCO
Species: CANINE
Breed: CHIH
Date: 1/30/2009
Gender: MALE
Age: 2Y

CANINE ADRENAL& FELINE ADRENAL PNL
Test Result Reference Range Low Normal High

CORTISOL (baseline) 44.6 2.1 - 58.8 ng/mL
CORTISOL (post ACTH) 116.9 65.0 - 174.6 ng/mL
ANDROSTENEDIONE baseline 12.8 0.1 - 5.7 ng/mL HIGH
ANDROSTENEDIONE (post ACTH) 76.5 2.7 - 39.7 ng/mL HIGH
ESTRADIOL (baseline) 89.8 30.8 - 69.9 pg/mL HIGH
ESTRADIOL (post ACTH) 85.4 27.9 - 69.2 pg/mL HIGH
PROGESTERONE (baseline) QNS 0.01 - 0.49 ng/mL
PROGESTERONE (post ACTH) 4.90 0.10 - 1.50 ng/mL HIGH
17 OH PROGEST (baseline) 0.45 0.01 - 0.77 ng/mL
17 OH PROGEST (post ACTH) 8.42 0.40 - 1.62 ng/mL HIGH
ALDOSTERONE (baseline) 330.9 3.5 - 139.9 pg/mL HIGH
ALDOSTERONE (post ACTH) 1 561.9 72.9 - 398.5 pg/mL HIGH

Comments:
1. THESE RESULTS INDICATE PRESENCE OF INCREASED ADRENAL ACTIVITY.

COMMENTS: ALL HORMONES, EXCEPT CORTISOL, ARE ELEVATED.

VARIOUS TREATMENT OPTION CONSIDERATIONS WILL BE FAXED TO YOU 2/16/09.
Referral test performed at the University of Tennessee.

[AlisonandMia]

What color is Rocco - is he blue? If he is this could have something to do with his coat/skin problems - but not the hormonal problems (Atypical Cushing's), that would be a separate issue. http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/dermatology/colour%20dilution%20alopecia.htm

Has he had a high resolution abdominal ultrasound done to rule out an adrenal tumor?

Alison

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Karen,

I have a couple questions.


ALDOSTERONE (post ACTH) 1 561.9 72.9 - 398.5 pg/mL HIGH Is this number correct? (1561.9?)


VARIOUS TREATMENT OPTION CONSIDERATIONS WILL BE FAXED TO YOU 2/16/09.Could you post what the treatment option sheet has given to you as options of treatment, it should say something like; consider #2, #3 and #4 on the treatment option sheet attached.

My boy Harley has a very elevated estradiol level, it is one hormone that is really hard to get lowered, but not impossible, it just takes time. When I asked Dr. Oliver when I should run the full adrenal panel again for Harley, his reply was in 6 months. I believe some folks here check to see how their Atypical pups are doing just by their pups liver enzyme tests.

My boy Harley has accidents in the house sometimes, I put down them puppy training pads and he uses them instead of my carpet. :eek::)

Hang in there Karen and remember we're here for you and Rocco.

Love and hugs.
Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi Karen,

Did the rescue have Rocco neutered or was he already neutered when he was relinquished to the shelter? One of my dogs, Jasper, was dumped at the shelter by his owner as he had lost all of his hair except for on the legs and face. We think Jasper was at least two years old at that time and he had a story much like Rocco's. He was actually in the kill room when a big dog rescuer found him and talked the staff into letting her have him. He was intact at that time and after the rescue group had him neutered, his hair started to grow back. Within six to eight months, he had a full coat and everybody could then see that he was not a Chi mix as thought but rather a beautiful, purebred Maltese.

Jasper was diagnosed with a condition called castration responsive dermatosis, meaning he was producing way too much testosterone. If we had done a UTK panel prior to or shortly after being neutered, I suspect that his results would have been similar to Rocco's. Rocco also fits the age group....age of onset is usually 1 to 3 years.

If the rescue group did not have Rocco neutered because he did not have visible testicles, it is very possible that he is cryptorchid, meaning his testicles never descended and are somewhere inside the body cavity. This is very common in toy breeds, especially Chihuahuas, and this condition can cause even bigger problem with the sex hormones. I work in small dog rescue and we see this all the time so please make sure you rule this out. If Rocco has a visible empty sac, then chances are he was recently neutered and then the question is what was the time frame between being neutered and having the UTK adrenal panel done?

Glynda

[StarDeb55]

Karen, the one thing that none of us has asked you, yet, is how long has Rocco been on the FSO+melatonin. UTK suggests a minimum of 3-4 months on these treatment before you may start seeing any improvement.

Debbie